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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,517

    Does this position help or harm Farage?

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2024558391536787561

    If Keir Starmer’s real obsession with getting rid of the Chagos Islands is to destroy our strong defence relationship with America, then his government must go.

    Even if the Chagos deal or no deal damages Starmer, Farage still looks like Trump's cuck, b1tch.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,530
    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    UK blocking Trump from using RAF bases for strikes on Iran

    The disagreement over the use of British sites is behind the US president’s withdrawal of support for the Chagos Islands deal, The Times understands


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/trump-chagos-islands-deal-iran-attack-british-bases-kcj0gzbr8

    Shame on Starmer if so.
    I’m not going to rise to replying to the uninformed, unChristian warmonger bile you are continually posting.
    I am an atheist. Could not care less about being unChristian.

    Wanting the liberation of Iranians from their brutal dictatorship is not bile.
    I would like to see the Iranian people free from such barbaric masochistic women hating bastards. But that’s not the purpose of the latest round of bombing, is it?
    Well arm yourself with the facts. The Iranian population is one of the best educated in the region and there is no educational discrimination against women. I think you might be confusing Iran with some of the Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia and Iraq where prejudice against women is severe. There are more Iranian female graduates than male ones.
    Some other facts - the regieme in Iran imposes the “Islamic” rules on women such as their evidence in a law court is worth less than a man’s.

    There are non-stop conflicts between the religious police and women who want to dress how they want and behave as they wish.
    I don't know whether you are Jewish. I somehow thought you might be. if you think women are prejudiced against in Islam it's but nothing compared to judaism. Try getting a Get (a Jewish divorce ) if you are a woman. Or the male morning prayer "Thank you for not making me a woman " Or the womens one "Thank you for making me according to your will"

    These Muslims........

    I’m commenting on the actual behaviour of the assholes in question. Every religion has its “we’ve got excuses for being assholes” section.

    In Iran, the mullahs have enthusiastically and entirely of their own volition decided to be assholes.
    The very Islam does not apparently 'require' such behaviour makes it, and places like Afhanistan, so much worse, as they choose to pick an interpretation of faith to justify mysogyny when alternatives exist.

    Hatred of women is a powerful motivator.
    It's also very odd as most people, as far as I know, are born of women. It's is some complaint about being born in the first place?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,664

    Does this position help or harm Farage?

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2024558391536787561

    If Keir Starmer’s real obsession with getting rid of the Chagos Islands is to destroy our strong defence relationship with America, then his government must go.

    Even if the Chagos deal or no deal damages Starmer, Farage still looks like Trump's cuck, b1tch.
    He's referring to the reports about Starmer blocking its use to attack Iran, so the question was more about whether supporting a US attack on Iran is a vote winner for Farage.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,862
    edited 7:43PM
    Scott_xP said:

    @vincempls.bsky.social‬

    March 27, 1936: Portraits of the Führer are raised on official buildings across Berlin. This one at the Potsdamer Railway Station reads "Freedom - Peace"

    https://bsky.app/profile/vincempls.bsky.social/post/3mfacvxdu722h

    In November 1933 (not exactly a free and fair election!), Hitler campaigned alongside an elderly President Hindenburg under the slogan:

    ,,Der Marschall und der Gefreite kämpfen mit uns für Frieden und Gleichberechtigung".

    "The Marshall and the Lance Corporal fight with us for Peace and Equal Rights!"
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,585

    Does this position help or harm Farage?

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2024558391536787561

    If Keir Starmer’s real obsession with getting rid of the Chagos Islands is to destroy our strong defence relationship with America, then his government must go.

    No group of voters gives a flying f about Chagos Islands except those who are almost certainly going to follow Leon into the ballot stations to vote Reform/Restore/Regurgitate.

    imho.





    It's grimly amusing that "greens" don't care about 645,835 km² of Chagos Archipelago Marine Protected Area
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,530

    Does this position help or harm Farage?

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2024558391536787561

    If Keir Starmer’s real obsession with getting rid of the Chagos Islands is to destroy our strong defence relationship with America, then his government must go.

    Don't know as most people, apart from the ardent supporters, have zoned out. It's only the media that is flogging this dead horse as they haven't quite got their heads around there being a change of governments. The lot that knife their PM's in the back were the last lot.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,671

    isam said:

    Find OutNow

    Ref 28 (-1)
    Grn 18 (=)
    Con 16 (-3)
    Lab 16 (=)
    LD 10 (-1)
    Others 7 (+3)

    Thank you @wooliedyed . We were all waiting for the PB gold standard from FoS. Any news from Ashcroft?

    Colour me sceptical, but shouldn't the +3 to Rupe be more likely to correlate to -3 Reform rather than Con.

    I am not dissing this excellent pollster but I don't like their methodology.
    See, if the PB predictions competition was launched this month, I would have excluded Find Out Now from the polling question.
    OGH did always say the poll you disagree most with should probably be ignored
    It's not that I disagree with them, they have recently described two of their recent polls as either statistically insignificant and a non standard poll, that's admitting your polls are garbage.
    I was half kidding, but the polls you cite weren't Westminster VI polls were they?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,517

    Does this position help or harm Farage?

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2024558391536787561

    If Keir Starmer’s real obsession with getting rid of the Chagos Islands is to destroy our strong defence relationship with America, then his government must go.

    Even if the Chagos deal or no deal damages Starmer, Farage still looks like Trump's cuck, b1tch.
    He's referring to the reports about Starmer blocking its use to attack Iran, so the question was more about whether supporting a US attack on Iran is a vote winner for Farage.
    My answer doesn't change. No one wants Trump to bomb the shit out of Tehran on Bibi's whim. If the Marines went in and mullered the mullahs we would all be behind that.

    So no, Farage demonstrates his MAGA adjacency is too f***in' dangerous.

    Who expect Starmer won't capitulate anyway?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,664
    France attacks the European Commission for attending Trump's Board of Peace meeting.

    https://x.com/jnbarrot/status/2024553080805556357
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,898
    Has there been a by-election poll?

    Labour has shortened significantly today. Latest:

    Green 1.55
    Reform 5
    Labour 6.2
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,862

    France attacks the European Commission for attending Trump's Board of Peace meeting.

    https://x.com/jnbarrot/status/2024553080805556357

    Trump looks like he's certainly "bored" of peace!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,517

    France attacks the European Commission for attending Trump's Board of Peace meeting.

    https://x.com/jnbarrot/status/2024553080805556357

    Tony Blair shat the bed too. And that was duly noted. Gianni Infantini on the other hand...
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,104

    Does this position help or harm Farage?

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2024558391536787561

    If Keir Starmer’s real obsession with getting rid of the Chagos Islands is to destroy our strong defence relationship with America, then his government must go.

    Even if the Chagos deal or no deal damages Starmer, Farage still looks like Trump's cuck, b1tch.
    He's referring to the reports about Starmer blocking its use to attack Iran, so the question was more about whether supporting a US attack on Iran is a vote winner for Farage.
    My answer doesn't change. No one wants Trump to bomb the shit out of Tehran on Bibi's whim.?
    Really !!

    How long you been here ?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,517
    Taz said:

    Does this position help or harm Farage?

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2024558391536787561

    If Keir Starmer’s real obsession with getting rid of the Chagos Islands is to destroy our strong defence relationship with America, then his government must go.

    Even if the Chagos deal or no deal damages Starmer, Farage still looks like Trump's cuck, b1tch.
    He's referring to the reports about Starmer blocking its use to attack Iran, so the question was more about whether supporting a US attack on Iran is a vote winner for Farage.
    My answer doesn't change. No one wants Trump to bomb the shit out of Tehran on Bibi's whim.?
    Really !!

    How long you been here ?
    My mistake.

    Except on PB, no one wants Trump to bomb the Shiite out of Tehran on Bibi's whim.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,948
    MikeL said:

    Has there been a by-election poll?

    Labour has shortened significantly today. Latest:

    Green 1.55
    Reform 5
    Labour 6.2

    I think Labour odds should be the same or shorter than Reform.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,862
    MikeL said:

    Has there been a by-election poll?

    Labour has shortened significantly today. Latest:

    Green 1.55
    Reform 5
    Labour 6.2

    SEVEN DAYS TO SAVE GORTON & DENTON!
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,551
    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,742
    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    For stuff like this I’d have thought it’s quite common. You’re evidence gathering and interviewing the suspect. You need to then take time to sift through it all with the CPS and work out how to proceed.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,312
    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    How often do the police arrest and charge someone the same day? They arrest so that they can gather evidence and statements and allow themselves certain abilities that they cannot get with a friendly conversation and then build evidence to charge from info taken from interviews and examination of evidence received during and after arrest.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,068
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    FPT for @MoonRabbit .

    MattW said:

    UK blocking Trump from using RAF bases for strikes on Iran

    The disagreement over the use of British sites is behind the US president’s withdrawal of support for the Chagos Islands deal, The Times understands


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/trump-chagos-islands-deal-iran-attack-british-bases-kcj0gzbr8

    That's a positive.
    It’s very very risky from Starmer. Hard to believe he said no.

    It is a very big moment in UK US special relationship I think. Does anyone have any example of such a request turned down before? I think for Vietnam US never asked Labour government to use an RAF base at any point?

    If Kemi says she would have given a different answer, straight away a huge and explosive differential between Conservative and Labour. Because, if any US plane goes down, with U’S service lives lost, anywhere in the battle space, Trump will blame the British Labour government for their deaths.
    Yes - I have such an example.

    The Conservative Government in 2012 rebuffed any attempt to use Diego-Garcia for a pre-emptive attack on Iran in advance, because they had official legal advice that could be against international law.

    The Guardian has been told that US diplomats have also lobbied for the use of British bases in Cyprus, and for permission to fly from US bases on Ascension Island in the Atlantic and Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, both of which are British territories.
    ..
    The UK would be in breach of international law if it facilitated what amounted to a pre-emptive strike on Iran," said a senior Whitehall source. "It is explicit. The government has been using this to push back against the Americans."
    ..
    "I think the US has been surprised that ministers have been reluctant to provide assurances about this kind of upfront assistance," said one source. "They'd expect resistance from senior Liberal Democrats, but it's Tories as well. That has come as a bit of a surprise."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/25/uk-reject-us-request-bases-iran

    It will be fun if SKS finds that, given that the Shadow Def Sec is jumping up and down demanding the Govt do the opposite.
    From The Times.
    “Under the terms of long-standing agreements with Washington, these bases {Times includes Diego Garcia} can only be used for military operations that have been agreed in advance with the government.

    I suspect The Times journalism is wrong, and no such agreement applies to Diego Garcia. It’s not an RAF base, it’s not even a joint base, it’s a US base. It seems very odd to me, based on the whole history of UK involvement with the US in Chagos, where UK have been so subservient, the US would allow such a clause on use of their own base.

    As for 2012 and all that, the UK government would try to bundle DG in with the others to aid their pushback - but they were likely wrong. Technically UK island, but not UK base.
    Seems very in keeping with the whole arrangement if it was technically a UK base even if in every way that matters it was not. Maintaining such legal ties long beyond practical reality is pretty common in our way of working.

    I don’t think it’s ever in any technicality been a UK base, we are just Landlord, with a very token presence in the base. UK is not really a user of the base, as online pages saying “joint UK US base” could fool you into thinking.

    It’s starts with the US wanting this base in Indian Ocean - it does both aircraft and submarines - and UK wasn’t the first country they approached with their pitch, that was France. Key part of the pitch for hosting the US base was a knockdown deal on US nuclear weaponry. The French would have to explain for themselves why they said no - maybe something about them does such things for themselves not joint ventures, they didn’t want such a degree of trans Atlantic special relationship they could get tied into, and lose some degree of freedom. Maybe it’s true De Gaulle was just plain unstable. But UK governments in 1960’s, both Conservative and Labour, saw the pitch from the US as a bargain. They embraced it.

    I don’t believe there was any predecessor the base was built on, not an RAF airfield or anything. It’s also interesting, as they approached France first, US may have had a particular site already in mind.
    I don't think 'technically' means what you think it does in this context - all you say could be true for all I know, and would not prevent it in a technical sense still being a UK base, even if it was basically a polite fiction.
    I think technically UK would have to be users of the base ourselves, for it technically to be a UK or even joint base. If all we, MOD, do there is act as the base Security contractor - mop up the Sri Lankan fishing junks straying too close, and confiscating the Chinese listening equipment from them, then back to base and top up the sun tans - like Death in Paradise, only with no deaths just Piña Coladas - it’s technically not the UK base the UK politicians and media are trying to fool us into believing it is, this evening. Is it?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,289
    edited 7:53PM
    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Maybe we'll have a charge in about 14 months or something, charges often don't happen same day, but I fear the most dramatic stuff has already happened.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,035

    Does this position help or harm Farage?

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2024558391536787561

    If Keir Starmer’s real obsession with getting rid of the Chagos Islands is to destroy our strong defence relationship with America, then his government must go.

    Farage - the only person who can engender any sort of sympathy for Starmer.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,035
    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Yet.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,517
    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    They got the f***** to sweat mind. And on his birthday 🎂 🎈.

    Perhaps plod gave him a nod and a wink to be on an early Emirates flight to Abu Dhabi. That would seem to resolve a lot of problems for everyone.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,068


    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    @Jacob_Rees_Mogg

    I am delighted to announce the 'Mogg Unbuttoned' tour - a series of live events that will take me from the green benches of Westminster to theatres across the country.

    Tour Dates & Venues:

    📅 18 Apr – Hereford
    📅 08 May – Worcester
    📅 15 May – Shrewsbury
    📅 19 May – Lincoln
    📅 24 May – Winchester

    Find out more at http://jacobreesmogglive.com
    #MoggUnbuttoned

    https://x.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/2024529418064908617

    ===

    Reads like a tour of english civil war battlefields to me.



    What does he unbutton?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,871
    edited 7:57PM
    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    The media say his arrest was to facilitate wide scale searches across various properties and it could be months until charges are made

    I do not think anyone expected charges today
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,138
    edited 7:58PM
    The late Queen of course paid for Andrew's civil settlement with Giuffre but this was a seperate matter related to his leaking confidential information to Epstein leading to his arrest for misconduct in public office, an offence Mandelson is also being investigated for.

    Though one also needs to ask what are the Americans doing? Most of the wealthy and powerful people in the Epstein files are American but not a single one of them has been arrested
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,138
    kle4 said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Maybe we'll have a charge in about 14 months or something, charges often don't happen same day, but I fear the most dramatic stuff has already happened.
    He was released under investigation, it could take months or even years for charges then to be brought by the CPS
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,312

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    FPT for @MoonRabbit .

    MattW said:

    UK blocking Trump from using RAF bases for strikes on Iran

    The disagreement over the use of British sites is behind the US president’s withdrawal of support for the Chagos Islands deal, The Times understands


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/trump-chagos-islands-deal-iran-attack-british-bases-kcj0gzbr8

    That's a positive.
    It’s very very risky from Starmer. Hard to believe he said no.

    It is a very big moment in UK US special relationship I think. Does anyone have any example of such a request turned down before? I think for Vietnam US never asked Labour government to use an RAF base at any point?

    If Kemi says she would have given a different answer, straight away a huge and explosive differential between Conservative and Labour. Because, if any US plane goes down, with U’S service lives lost, anywhere in the battle space, Trump will blame the British Labour government for their deaths.
    Yes - I have such an example.

    The Conservative Government in 2012 rebuffed any attempt to use Diego-Garcia for a pre-emptive attack on Iran in advance, because they had official legal advice that could be against international law.

    The Guardian has been told that US diplomats have also lobbied for the use of British bases in Cyprus, and for permission to fly from US bases on Ascension Island in the Atlantic and Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, both of which are British territories.
    ..
    The UK would be in breach of international law if it facilitated what amounted to a pre-emptive strike on Iran," said a senior Whitehall source. "It is explicit. The government has been using this to push back against the Americans."
    ..
    "I think the US has been surprised that ministers have been reluctant to provide assurances about this kind of upfront assistance," said one source. "They'd expect resistance from senior Liberal Democrats, but it's Tories as well. That has come as a bit of a surprise."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/25/uk-reject-us-request-bases-iran

    It will be fun if SKS finds that, given that the Shadow Def Sec is jumping up and down demanding the Govt do the opposite.
    From The Times.
    “Under the terms of long-standing agreements with Washington, these bases {Times includes Diego Garcia} can only be used for military operations that have been agreed in advance with the government.

    I suspect The Times journalism is wrong, and no such agreement applies to Diego Garcia. It’s not an RAF base, it’s not even a joint base, it’s a US base. It seems very odd to me, based on the whole history of UK involvement with the US in Chagos, where UK have been so subservient, the US would allow such a clause on use of their own base.

    As for 2012 and all that, the UK government would try to bundle DG in with the others to aid their pushback - but they were likely wrong. Technically UK island, but not UK base.
    Seems very in keeping with the whole arrangement if it was technically a UK base even if in every way that matters it was not. Maintaining such legal ties long beyond practical reality is pretty common in our way of working.

    I don’t think it’s ever in any technicality been a UK base, we are just Landlord, with a very token presence in the base. UK is not really a user of the base, as online pages saying “joint UK US base” could fool you into thinking.

    It’s starts with the US wanting this base in Indian Ocean - it does both aircraft and submarines - and UK wasn’t the first country they approached with their pitch, that was France. Key part of the pitch for hosting the US base was a knockdown deal on US nuclear weaponry. The French would have to explain for themselves why they said no - maybe something about them does such things for themselves not joint ventures, they didn’t want such a degree of trans Atlantic special relationship they could get tied into, and lose some degree of freedom. Maybe it’s true De Gaulle was just plain unstable. But UK governments in 1960’s, both Conservative and Labour, saw the pitch from the US as a bargain. They embraced it.

    I don’t believe there was any predecessor the base was built on, not an RAF airfield or anything. It’s also interesting, as they approached France first, US may have had a particular site already in mind.
    I don't think 'technically' means what you think it does in this context - all you say could be true for all I know, and would not prevent it in a technical sense still being a UK base, even if it was basically a polite fiction.
    I think technically UK would have to be users of the base ourselves, for it technically to be a UK or even joint base. If all we, MOD, do there is act as the base Security contractor - mop up the Sri Lankan fishing junks straying too close, and confiscating the Chinese listening equipment from them, then back to base and top up the sun tans - like Death in Paradise, only with no deaths just Piña Coladas - it’s technically not the UK base the UK politicians and media are trying to fool us into believing it is, this evening. Is it?
    We currently get “something” from it so it’s a benefit to the UK. Now that might be at the whims of the US but it’s a benefit.

    The current plan would be like us giving Gibraltar to Morocco because in a different time they had administration over it then paying Morocco for the privilege of letting France have a military base there. It’s absolutely nuts.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,551
    boulay said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    How often do the police arrest and charge someone the same day? They arrest so that they can gather evidence and statements and allow themselves certain abilities that they cannot get with a friendly conversation and then build evidence to charge from info taken from interviews and examination of evidence received during and after arrest.
    They’re hardly likely to find a smoking gun this many years on in his residence that isn’t already available to them. His solicitor will be top notch and won’t be allowing any Pizza Hut or sweating based answers. So if the don’t already have the evidence they needed from the Epstein papers an other witnesses, it seems unlikely they’re going to be able to build a successful case.

    We’re not talking here about a run of the mill arrest for Joe Bloggs here but something that’s not happened in barely half a millennium. Just extraordinary to me they’d have made this move without robust evidence to charge him.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,265

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    They got the f***** to sweat mind. And on his birthday 🎂 🎈.

    Perhaps plod gave him a nod and a wink to be on an early Emirates flight to Abu Dhabi. That would seem to resolve a lot of problems for everyone.
    I would suspect his passport would be confiscated?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,289
    HYUFD said:

    The late Queen of course paid for Andrew's civil settlement with Giuffre but this was a seperate matter related to his leaking confidential information to Epstein leading to his arrest for misconduct in public office, an offence Mandelson is also being investigated for.

    Though one also needs to ask what are the Americans doing? Most of the wealthy and powerful people in the Epstein files are American but not a single one of them has been arrested

    An important point but a distraction for us in the UK, as is the matter of the settlement being unconnecred from this arrest. Indeed, that they might have to Capone him in a way just draws more attention to the fact that he has probably done much worse, and family money covered it up.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 609
    boulay said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    How often do the police arrest and charge someone the same day? They arrest so that they can gather evidence and statements and allow themselves certain abilities that they cannot get with a friendly conversation and then build evidence to charge from info taken from interviews and examination of evidence received during and after arrest.
    It's a strange phrase

    Usually it would be released pending further investigation

    The Police don't decide the charge bit, the CPS do surely.

    They can't of gone through all that evidence taken away in 1 day.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,957
    Starmer might yet save the by-election if he tells Trump where to go .
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,862


    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    @Jacob_Rees_Mogg

    I am delighted to announce the 'Mogg Unbuttoned' tour - a series of live events that will take me from the green benches of Westminster to theatres across the country.

    Tour Dates & Venues:

    📅 18 Apr – Hereford
    📅 08 May – Worcester
    📅 15 May – Shrewsbury
    📅 19 May – Lincoln
    📅 24 May – Winchester

    Find out more at http://jacobreesmogglive.com
    #MoggUnbuttoned

    https://x.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/2024529418064908617

    ===

    Reads like a tour of english civil war battlefields to me.



    What does he unbutton?
    "Oh, behave!"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,138
    kle4 said:

    I don't know what @HYUFD must be thinking after today aa he is one of the most loyal posters for the royal family on here

    I hope he is coming to terms with the news

    Us committed monarchists believe the system is one that works well, even when the individuals let it down (and unfortunately I doubt Andrew will ever face charge or conviction, which he probably deserves).

    I give the monarchy a 50/50 on making it to George - republicanism is not super popular or anything, but support can evaporate quickly if matters are handled badly, and many of the most passionate monarchists are weirdos, which hinders arguing the case for it.
    Given 2 Presidents of the US republic socialised with Epstein, Trump and Bill Clinton and the King and Prince Willliam never even met him I don't think it has any relevance at all to a monarchy v republic argument
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,530
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Maybe we'll have a charge in about 14 months or something, charges often don't happen same day, but I fear the most dramatic stuff has already happened.
    He was released under investigation, it could take months or even years for charges then to be brought by the CPS
    Wonder what the discovery phase for both Andrew and Mandelson will uncover. The DOJ won't be able to restrict their publication - or will they?
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,104
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Maybe we'll have a charge in about 14 months or something, charges often don't happen same day, but I fear the most dramatic stuff has already happened.
    He was released under investigation, it could take months or even years for charges then to be brought by the CPS
    It will be kicked into the long grass.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,517

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    They got the f***** to sweat mind. And on his birthday 🎂 🎈.

    Perhaps plod gave him a nod and a wink to be on an early Emirates flight to Abu Dhabi. That would seem to resolve a lot of problems for everyone.
    I would suspect his passport would be confiscated?
    Not without a charge or magistrate imposed bail. I don't believe police bail can restrict his travel arrangements.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,568
    HYUFD said:

    The late Queen of course paid for Andrew's civil settlement with Giuffre but this was a seperate matter related to his leaking confidential information to Epstein leading to his arrest for misconduct in public office, an offence Mandelson is also being investigated for.

    Though one also needs to ask what are the Americans doing? Most of the wealthy and powerful people in the Epstein files are American but not a single one of them has been arrested

    Separate..not seperate
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,880
    edited 8:05PM
    Trump is getting the US government to pay $10 billion to his Board of Peace, that he entirely controls.

    https://thehill.com/policy/international/5745297-trump-funding-board-of-peace/

    BILLION.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,568
    HYUFD said:

    The late Queen of course paid for Andrew's civil settlement with Giuffre but this was a seperate matter related to his leaking confidential information to Epstein leading to his arrest for misconduct in public office, an offence Mandelson is also being investigated for.

    Though one also needs to ask what are the Americans doing? Most of the wealthy and powerful people in the Epstein files are American but not a single one of them has been arrested

    Separate...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,486
    Andrew leaving the police station. Pic courtesy Reuters.

    https://bsky.app/profile/chadbourn.bsky.social/post/3mfafa4fg5k2j
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,425
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Find OutNow

    Ref 28 (-1)
    Grn 18 (=)
    Con 16 (-3)
    Lab 16 (=)
    LD 10 (-1)
    Others 7 (+3)

    Thank you @wooliedyed . We were all waiting for the PB gold standard from FoS. Any news from Ashcroft?

    Colour me sceptical, but shouldn't the +3 to Rupe be more likely to correlate to -3 Reform rather than Con.

    I am not dissing this excellent pollster but I don't like their methodology.
    See, if the PB predictions competition was launched this month, I would have excluded Find Out Now from the polling question.
    OGH did always say the poll you disagree most with should probably be ignored
    It's not that I disagree with them, they have recently described two of their recent polls as either statistically insignificant and a non standard poll, that's admitting your polls are garbage.
    I was half kidding, but the polls you cite weren't Westminster VI polls were they?
    The second one was.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,517
    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Lucy Letby was baled twice over two years before she was charged/ fitted up.*

    * Delete as appropriate or if you are David Davis.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,138

    Someone has said Andrew M-W was the first member of the Royal Family to be arrested since Charles I.

    That didn’t end well!

    Princess Anne was convicted of having a dog out of control in 2002 in a magistrates court but not arrested before
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,871
    HYUFD said:

    The late Queen of course paid for Andrew's civil settlement with Giuffre but this was a seperate matter related to his leaking confidential information to Epstein leading to his arrest for misconduct in public office, an offence Mandelson is also being investigated for.

    Though one also needs to ask what are the Americans doing? Most of the wealthy and powerful people in the Epstein files are American but not a single one of them has been arrested

    It was but it has now opened the late queen and charles to explain why they paid an Epstein victim to keep quiet

    This is the biggest crisis for the royals since the 1936 abdication

    And as for your last paragraph, we should be proud that nobody in the UK is above the law
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,654
    Just watched a recent Storyville, the darkest web, a story of child abuse. Unremittingly grim but incredibly moving and with some good threads through it. Its not an easy watch and those that are vulnerable, for whatever reason, probably should not go near it. But wow, absolutely mind blowing. Some of the stuff I have to deal with is bad but this is a whole other level. I honestly don't know how a normal human can do this kind of work and not find themselves profoundly changed.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,312

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    They got the f***** to sweat mind. And on his birthday 🎂 🎈.

    Perhaps plod gave him a nod and a wink to be on an early Emirates flight to Abu Dhabi. That would seem to resolve a lot of problems for everyone.
    I would suspect his passport would be confiscated?
    Not without a charge or magistrate imposed bail. I don't believe police bail can restrict his travel arrangements.
    It can hear with police bail. If you have means and contacts (which he does) they would assess if you are likely to use that to flee justice - they might decide to hold you if you are a serious flight risk but the next step down is weekly reporting and surrendering any passport etc that would allow you to skip.

    I would think the same in the UK.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,227

    Trump is getting the US government to pay $10 billion to his Board of Peace, that he entirely controls.

    https://thehill.com/policy/international/5745297-trump-funding-board-of-peace/

    BILLION.

    One can only blame Congress. They have the power of the purse and they are not using it.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,425
    moonshine said:

    boulay said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    How often do the police arrest and charge someone the same day? They arrest so that they can gather evidence and statements and allow themselves certain abilities that they cannot get with a friendly conversation and then build evidence to charge from info taken from interviews and examination of evidence received during and after arrest.
    They’re hardly likely to find a smoking gun this many years on in his residence that isn’t already available to them. His solicitor will be top notch and won’t be allowing any Pizza Hut or sweating based answers. So if the don’t already have the evidence they needed from the Epstein papers an other witnesses, it seems unlikely they’re going to be able to build a successful case.

    We’re not talking here about a run of the mill arrest for Joe Bloggs here but something that’s not happened in barely half a millennium. Just extraordinary to me they’d have made this move without robust evidence to charge him.
    You don't understand the legal process in this country do you?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,871
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Maybe we'll have a charge in about 14 months or something, charges often don't happen same day, but I fear the most dramatic stuff has already happened.
    He was released under investigation, it could take months or even years for charges then to be brought by the CPS
    Not sure that is a good thing for the royals to be honest
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,104

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Lucy Letby was baled twice over two years before she was charged/ fitted up.*

    * Delete as appropriate or if you are David Davis.
    Do we have any Letby Truthers here ?

    Peter Hitchens seems obsessed with her case.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,880
    edited 8:12PM


    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    @Jacob_Rees_Mogg

    I am delighted to announce the 'Mogg Unbuttoned' tour - a series of live events that will take me from the green benches of Westminster to theatres across the country.

    Tour Dates & Venues:

    📅 18 Apr – Hereford
    📅 08 May – Worcester
    📅 15 May – Shrewsbury
    📅 19 May – Lincoln
    📅 24 May – Winchester

    Find out more at http://jacobreesmogglive.com
    #MoggUnbuttoned

    https://x.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/2024529418064908617

    ===

    Reads like a tour of english civil war battlefields to me.



    What does he unbutton?
    Don’t you want to know?

    (The emphasis here has to be on the “you” for this to sound sufficiently sordid.)
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,759
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Maybe we'll have a charge in about 14 months or something, charges often don't happen same day, but I fear the most dramatic stuff has already happened.
    He was released under investigation, it could take months or even years for charges then to be brought by the CPS
    It will be kicked into the long grass.
    It seems the legal process moves at snail's pace anyway, apart from matters like riots.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,374
    edited 8:11PM
    HYUFD said:

    Someone has said Andrew M-W was the first member of the Royal Family to be arrested since Charles I.

    That didn’t end well!

    Princess Anne was convicted of having a dog out of control in 2002 in a magistrates court but not arrested before
    Unwise of her to walk her unruly dog in a magistrates court
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,425
    Just an FYI, I am thinking of taking the whole of July off to watch the World Cup and then go on holiday.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,312
    DavidL said:

    Just watched a recent Storyville, the darkest web, a story of child abuse. Unremittingly grim but incredibly moving and with some good threads through it. Its not an easy watch and those that are vulnerable, for whatever reason, probably should not go near it. But wow, absolutely mind blowing. Some of the stuff I have to deal with is bad but this is a whole other level. I honestly don't know how a normal human can do this kind of work and not find themselves profoundly changed.

    I have a friend who is a police detective who works on that, without saying too much he seriously has to let off steam to deal with what he sees. I have so much respect for those who have to deal with the evidence.

    I was listening to a podcast about two FBI chaps who managed to find a girl being abused from a photo of her where they needed up tracing the bricks in the background and they saved her. Remarkable investigation but tragic it has to happen. They had already saved a child by working out from clues that the photo was of a Dutch child and got interpol, the Dutch police and press to find the child.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,568

    moonshine said:

    boulay said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    How often do the police arrest and charge someone the same day? They arrest so that they can gather evidence and statements and allow themselves certain abilities that they cannot get with a friendly conversation and then build evidence to charge from info taken from interviews and examination of evidence received during and after arrest.
    They’re hardly likely to find a smoking gun this many years on in his residence that isn’t already available to them. His solicitor will be top notch and won’t be allowing any Pizza Hut or sweating based answers. So if the don’t already have the evidence they needed from the Epstein papers an other witnesses, it seems unlikely they’re going to be able to build a successful case.

    We’re not talking here about a run of the mill arrest for Joe Bloggs here but something that’s not happened in barely half a millennium. Just extraordinary to me they’d have made this move without robust evidence to charge him.
    You don't understand the legal process in this country do you?
    She was bailed not baled

    .unless she was tied up.with twine in straw or hay?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,896
    HYUFD said:

    The late Queen of course paid for Andrew's civil settlement with Giuffre but this was a seperate matter related to his leaking confidential information to Epstein leading to his arrest for misconduct in public office, an offence Mandelson is also being investigated for.

    Though one also needs to ask what are the Americans doing? Most of the wealthy and powerful people in the Epstein files are American but not a single one of them has been arrested

    Because they are wealthy and powerful.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,880
    Taz said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Lucy Letby was baled twice over two years before she was charged/ fitted up.*

    * Delete as appropriate or if you are David Davis.
    Do we have any Letby Truthers here ?

    Peter Hitchens seems obsessed with her case.
    Oh, there are lots of Letby Truthers here!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,068
    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    FPT for @MoonRabbit .

    MattW said:

    UK blocking Trump from using RAF bases for strikes on Iran

    The disagreement over the use of British sites is behind the US president’s withdrawal of support for the Chagos Islands deal, The Times understands


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/trump-chagos-islands-deal-iran-attack-british-bases-kcj0gzbr8

    That's a positive.
    It’s very very risky from Starmer. Hard to believe he said no.

    It is a very big moment in UK US special relationship I think. Does anyone have any example of such a request turned down before? I think for Vietnam US never asked Labour government to use an RAF base at any point?

    If Kemi says she would have given a different answer, straight away a huge and explosive differential between Conservative and Labour. Because, if any US plane goes down, with U’S service lives lost, anywhere in the battle space, Trump will blame the British Labour government for their deaths.
    Yes - I have such an example.

    The Conservative Government in 2012 rebuffed any attempt to use Diego-Garcia for a pre-emptive attack on Iran in advance, because they had official legal advice that could be against international law.

    The Guardian has been told that US diplomats have also lobbied for the use of British bases in Cyprus, and for permission to fly from US bases on Ascension Island in the Atlantic and Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, both of which are British territories.
    ..
    The UK would be in breach of international law if it facilitated what amounted to a pre-emptive strike on Iran," said a senior Whitehall source. "It is explicit. The government has been using this to push back against the Americans."
    ..
    "I think the US has been surprised that ministers have been reluctant to provide assurances about this kind of upfront assistance," said one source. "They'd expect resistance from senior Liberal Democrats, but it's Tories as well. That has come as a bit of a surprise."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/25/uk-reject-us-request-bases-iran

    It will be fun if SKS finds that, given that the Shadow Def Sec is jumping up and down demanding the Govt do the opposite.
    From The Times.
    “Under the terms of long-standing agreements with Washington, these bases {Times includes Diego Garcia} can only be used for military operations that have been agreed in advance with the government.

    I suspect The Times journalism is wrong, and no such agreement applies to Diego Garcia. It’s not an RAF base, it’s not even a joint base, it’s a US base. It seems very odd to me, based on the whole history of UK involvement with the US in Chagos, where UK have been so subservient, the US would allow such a clause on use of their own base.

    As for 2012 and all that, the UK government would try to bundle DG in with the others to aid their pushback - but they were likely wrong. Technically UK island, but not UK base.
    Seems very in keeping with the whole arrangement if it was technically a UK base even if in every way that matters it was not. Maintaining such legal ties long beyond practical reality is pretty common in our way of working.

    I don’t think it’s ever in any technicality been a UK base, we are just Landlord, with a very token presence in the base. UK is not really a user of the base, as online pages saying “joint UK US base” could fool you into thinking.

    It’s starts with the US wanting this base in Indian Ocean - it does both aircraft and submarines - and UK wasn’t the first country they approached with their pitch, that was France. Key part of the pitch for hosting the US base was a knockdown deal on US nuclear weaponry. The French would have to explain for themselves why they said no - maybe something about them does such things for themselves not joint ventures, they didn’t want such a degree of trans Atlantic special relationship they could get tied into, and lose some degree of freedom. Maybe it’s true De Gaulle was just plain unstable. But UK governments in 1960’s, both Conservative and Labour, saw the pitch from the US as a bargain. They embraced it.

    I don’t believe there was any predecessor the base was built on, not an RAF airfield or anything. It’s also interesting, as they approached France first, US may have had a particular site already in mind.
    I don't think 'technically' means what you think it does in this context - all you say could be true for all I know, and would not prevent it in a technical sense still being a UK base, even if it was basically a polite fiction.
    I think technically UK would have to be users of the base ourselves, for it technically to be a UK or even joint base. If all we, MOD, do there is act as the base Security contractor - mop up the Sri Lankan fishing junks straying too close, and confiscating the Chinese listening equipment from them, then back to base and top up the sun tans - like Death in Paradise, only with no deaths just Piña Coladas - it’s technically not the UK base the UK politicians and media are trying to fool us into believing it is, this evening. Is it?
    We currently get “something” from it so it’s a benefit to the UK. Now that might be at the whims of the US but it’s a benefit.

    The current plan would be like us giving Gibraltar to Morocco because in a different time they had administration over it then paying Morocco for the privilege of letting France have a military base there. It’s absolutely nuts.
    I don’t like it either. But that’s what the Indian and US governments cooked up for us to sign up to.

    The actual pressure on us came from India, the rising super power in the region. Not UN. India said Mauritius. So it is.

    Mauritius sees itself being a sort of African East Coast Singapore, accordingly has a bit of trade deal with China, but military and security deals with India.

    When Patel and Reform and US Senators say “China’s friend Mauritius” and don’t mention India, never mention India, they are just utterly embarrassing themselves really. Stretching fantasy they want to believe over it all, not sticking to the facts - in some sort of echo chamber where they don’t even want to listen and accept the facts.

    But that can only last for so long now 🙂
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,374
    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    The late Queen of course paid for Andrew's civil settlement with Giuffre but this was a seperate matter related to his leaking confidential information to Epstein leading to his arrest for misconduct in public office, an offence Mandelson is also being investigated for.

    Though one also needs to ask what are the Americans doing? Most of the wealthy and powerful people in the Epstein files are American but not a single one of them has been arrested

    Because they are wealthy and powerful.
    And.
    Their President appears in them a million times.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,265
    edited 8:14PM

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    They got the f***** to sweat mind. And on his birthday 🎂 🎈.

    Perhaps plod gave him a nod and a wink to be on an early Emirates flight to Abu Dhabi. That would seem to resolve a lot of problems for everyone.
    I would suspect his passport would be confiscated?
    Not without a charge or magistrate imposed bail. I don't believe police bail can restrict his travel arrangements.
    On Poirot, inspector Japp is always telling suspects not to leave the area, and those stories are so accurate...

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,138

    Find OutNow

    Ref 28 (-1)
    Grn 18 (=)
    Con 16 (-3)
    Lab 16 (=)
    LD 10 (-1)
    Others 7 (+3)

    Gives Reform 347 seats and a small majority, Greens 68, LDs 66, Labour 47, SNP 45 and Tories 36
    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast/custom
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,425
    Taz said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Lucy Letby was baled twice over two years before she was charged/ fitted up.*

    * Delete as appropriate or if you are David Davis.
    Do we have any Letby Truthers here ?

    Peter Hitchens seems obsessed with her case.
    My father is not a Lucy Letby truther but he has followed the story will great interest because of his old job, and so have a lot of his colleagues, he and they think there's enough evidence to doubt her guilt, some think she's guilty as sin.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,551

    moonshine said:

    boulay said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    How often do the police arrest and charge someone the same day? They arrest so that they can gather evidence and statements and allow themselves certain abilities that they cannot get with a friendly conversation and then build evidence to charge from info taken from interviews and examination of evidence received during and after arrest.
    They’re hardly likely to find a smoking gun this many years on in his residence that isn’t already available to them. His solicitor will be top notch and won’t be allowing any Pizza Hut or sweating based answers. So if the don’t already have the evidence they needed from the Epstein papers an other witnesses, it seems unlikely they’re going to be able to build a successful case.

    We’re not talking here about a run of the mill arrest for Joe Bloggs here but something that’s not happened in barely half a millennium. Just extraordinary to me they’d have made this move without robust evidence to charge him.
    You don't understand the legal process in this country do you?
    24 hours to charge or release. Build a case, put forward to the cps to obtain permission to charge. But this is not an ordinary case. The key witness to the accusation in question is dead. There are historic messages they already have. It all seems pretty flimsy to me and comes across as a bit of a stunt. And I say this as someone that thinks he’s most likely a pretty unpleasant man and quite possibly worse
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,227
    @simon_schama


    CONGRESS (hellooo, anyone at home?)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,035

    Trump is getting the US government to pay $10 billion to his Board of Peace, that he entirely controls.

    https://thehill.com/policy/international/5745297-trump-funding-board-of-peace/

    BILLION.

    I hope an incoming Government fines him $100 trillion. For the shitz n gigglez.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,551

    Taz said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Lucy Letby was baled twice over two years before she was charged/ fitted up.*

    * Delete as appropriate or if you are David Davis.
    Do we have any Letby Truthers here ?

    Peter Hitchens seems obsessed with her case.
    My father is not a Lucy Letby truther but he has followed the story will great interest because of his old job, and so have a lot of his colleagues, he and they think there's enough evidence to doubt her guilt, some think she's guilty as sin.
    That’s one of those cases that was so horrific I just avoided it entirely because I couldn’t bring myself to read about it. Pity the jurors in that one.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,425
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    boulay said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    How often do the police arrest and charge someone the same day? They arrest so that they can gather evidence and statements and allow themselves certain abilities that they cannot get with a friendly conversation and then build evidence to charge from info taken from interviews and examination of evidence received during and after arrest.
    They’re hardly likely to find a smoking gun this many years on in his residence that isn’t already available to them. His solicitor will be top notch and won’t be allowing any Pizza Hut or sweating based answers. So if the don’t already have the evidence they needed from the Epstein papers an other witnesses, it seems unlikely they’re going to be able to build a successful case.

    We’re not talking here about a run of the mill arrest for Joe Bloggs here but something that’s not happened in barely half a millennium. Just extraordinary to me they’d have made this move without robust evidence to charge him.
    You don't understand the legal process in this country do you?
    24 hours to charge or release. Build a case, put forward to the cps to obtain permission to charge. But this is not an ordinary case. The key witness to the accusation in question is dead. There are historic messages they already have. It all seems pretty flimsy to me and comes across as a bit of a stunt. And I say this as someone that thinks he’s most likely a pretty unpleasant man and quite possibly worse
    They need time to process the evidence they've collected today.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,486
    @atrupar.com‬
    DOOCY: On Prince Andrew, do you think American associates of Jeffrey Epstein will wind up in handcuffs too?

    TRUMP: I'm the expert in a way because I've been totally exonerated. That's very nice. I can actually speak about it very nicely. I think it's a shame. I did nothing.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3mfafem3ftm2s
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,457

    Just an FYI, I am thinking of taking the whole of July off to watch the World Cup and then go on holiday.

    When you're struggling for a header, do you ever just take a day off at short notice and let the cosmos do the work for you?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,517
    Taz said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Lucy Letby was baled twice over two years before she was charged/ fitted up.*

    * Delete as appropriate or if you are David Davis.
    Do we have any Letby Truthers here ?

    Peter Hitchens seems obsessed with her case.
    50/50

    I suspect there is a higher rate of probability that she was not guilty compared to say Trump winning 2020 or Neil Armstrong setting foot on the moon.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,664
    Taz said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Lucy Letby was baled twice over two years before she was charged/ fitted up.*

    * Delete as appropriate or if you are David Davis.
    Do we have any Letby Truthers here ?

    Peter Hitchens seems obsessed with her case.
    One of the strangest online communities I've seen were the McCann Truthers. Some high-profile crimes seem to attract them.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,227

    Just an FYI, I am thinking of taking the whole of July off to watch the World Cup and then go on holiday.

    Well, that's the World Cup fucked is all I can say.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,551

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    boulay said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    How often do the police arrest and charge someone the same day? They arrest so that they can gather evidence and statements and allow themselves certain abilities that they cannot get with a friendly conversation and then build evidence to charge from info taken from interviews and examination of evidence received during and after arrest.
    They’re hardly likely to find a smoking gun this many years on in his residence that isn’t already available to them. His solicitor will be top notch and won’t be allowing any Pizza Hut or sweating based answers. So if the don’t already have the evidence they needed from the Epstein papers an other witnesses, it seems unlikely they’re going to be able to build a successful case.

    We’re not talking here about a run of the mill arrest for Joe Bloggs here but something that’s not happened in barely half a millennium. Just extraordinary to me they’d have made this move without robust evidence to charge him.
    You don't understand the legal process in this country do you?
    24 hours to charge or release. Build a case, put forward to the cps to obtain permission to charge. But this is not an ordinary case. The key witness to the accusation in question is dead. There are historic messages they already have. It all seems pretty flimsy to me and comes across as a bit of a stunt. And I say this as someone that thinks he’s most likely a pretty unpleasant man and quite possibly worse
    They need time to process the evidence they've collected today.
    Unless he’s silly enough to have kept trophies concerning the other alleged crimes, printed records of emails or offshore banking details of not yet released dodgy deals, or a suitcase full of molly, it’s not obvious what they’re going to find.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,880
    HYUFD said:

    Find OutNow

    Ref 28 (-1)
    Grn 18 (=)
    Con 16 (-3)
    Lab 16 (=)
    LD 10 (-1)
    Others 7 (+3)

    Gives Reform 347 seats and a small majority, Greens 68, LDs 66, Labour 47, SNP 45 and Tories 36
    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast/custom
    Those are made up numbers. We just don’t know how these vote shares will actually play out in terms of seats.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,425

    Just an FYI, I am thinking of taking the whole of July off to watch the World Cup and then go on holiday.

    When you're struggling for a header, do you ever just take a day off at short notice and let the cosmos do the work for you?
    Yup.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,654
    boulay said:

    DavidL said:

    Just watched a recent Storyville, the darkest web, a story of child abuse. Unremittingly grim but incredibly moving and with some good threads through it. Its not an easy watch and those that are vulnerable, for whatever reason, probably should not go near it. But wow, absolutely mind blowing. Some of the stuff I have to deal with is bad but this is a whole other level. I honestly don't know how a normal human can do this kind of work and not find themselves profoundly changed.

    I have a friend who is a police detective who works on that, without saying too much he seriously has to let off steam to deal with what he sees. I have so much respect for those who have to deal with the evidence.

    I was listening to a podcast about two FBI chaps who managed to find a girl being abused from a photo of her where they needed up tracing the bricks in the background and they saved her. Remarkable investigation but tragic it has to happen. They had already saved a child by working out from clues that the photo was of a Dutch child and got interpol, the Dutch police and press to find the child.
    The bricks story is very much a part of this program. They spoke to a brick expert who was able to identify the bare bricks that could be seen in the images of the child being abused and made the invaluable contribution that bricks are heavy and it was vanishingly unlikely this wall was more than 50 miles from where they were made. So the search went from 29 states to relatively few square miles.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,862

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    FPT for @MoonRabbit .

    MattW said:

    UK blocking Trump from using RAF bases for strikes on Iran

    The disagreement over the use of British sites is behind the US president’s withdrawal of support for the Chagos Islands deal, The Times understands


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/trump-chagos-islands-deal-iran-attack-british-bases-kcj0gzbr8

    That's a positive.
    It’s very very risky from Starmer. Hard to believe he said no.

    It is a very big moment in UK US special relationship I think. Does anyone have any example of such a request turned down before? I think for Vietnam US never asked Labour government to use an RAF base at any point?

    If Kemi says she would have given a different answer, straight away a huge and explosive differential between Conservative and Labour. Because, if any US plane goes down, with U’S service lives lost, anywhere in the battle space, Trump will blame the British Labour government for their deaths.
    Yes - I have such an example.

    The Conservative Government in 2012 rebuffed any attempt to use Diego-Garcia for a pre-emptive attack on Iran in advance, because they had official legal advice that could be against international law.

    The Guardian has been told that US diplomats have also lobbied for the use of British bases in Cyprus, and for permission to fly from US bases on Ascension Island in the Atlantic and Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, both of which are British territories.
    ..
    The UK would be in breach of international law if it facilitated what amounted to a pre-emptive strike on Iran," said a senior Whitehall source. "It is explicit. The government has been using this to push back against the Americans."
    ..
    "I think the US has been surprised that ministers have been reluctant to provide assurances about this kind of upfront assistance," said one source. "They'd expect resistance from senior Liberal Democrats, but it's Tories as well. That has come as a bit of a surprise."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/25/uk-reject-us-request-bases-iran

    It will be fun if SKS finds that, given that the Shadow Def Sec is jumping up and down demanding the Govt do the opposite.
    From The Times.
    “Under the terms of long-standing agreements with Washington, these bases {Times includes Diego Garcia} can only be used for military operations that have been agreed in advance with the government.

    I suspect The Times journalism is wrong, and no such agreement applies to Diego Garcia. It’s not an RAF base, it’s not even a joint base, it’s a US base. It seems very odd to me, based on the whole history of UK involvement with the US in Chagos, where UK have been so subservient, the US would allow such a clause on use of their own base.

    As for 2012 and all that, the UK government would try to bundle DG in with the others to aid their pushback - but they were likely wrong. Technically UK island, but not UK base.
    Seems very in keeping with the whole arrangement if it was technically a UK base even if in every way that matters it was not. Maintaining such legal ties long beyond practical reality is pretty common in our way of working.

    I don’t think it’s ever in any technicality been a UK base, we are just Landlord, with a very token presence in the base. UK is not really a user of the base, as online pages saying “joint UK US base” could fool you into thinking.

    It’s starts with the US wanting this base in Indian Ocean - it does both aircraft and submarines - and UK wasn’t the first country they approached with their pitch, that was France. Key part of the pitch for hosting the US base was a knockdown deal on US nuclear weaponry. The French would have to explain for themselves why they said no - maybe something about them does such things for themselves not joint ventures, they didn’t want such a degree of trans Atlantic special relationship they could get tied into, and lose some degree of freedom. Maybe it’s true De Gaulle was just plain unstable. But UK governments in 1960’s, both Conservative and Labour, saw the pitch from the US as a bargain. They embraced it.

    I don’t believe there was any predecessor the base was built on, not an RAF airfield or anything. It’s also interesting, as they approached France first, US may have had a particular site already in mind.
    I don't think 'technically' means what you think it does in this context - all you say could be true for all I know, and would not prevent it in a technical sense still being a UK base, even if it was basically a polite fiction.
    I think technically UK would have to be users of the base ourselves, for it technically to be a UK or even joint base. If all we, MOD, do there is act as the base Security contractor - mop up the Sri Lankan fishing junks straying too close, and confiscating the Chinese listening equipment from them, then back to base and top up the sun tans - like Death in Paradise, only with no deaths just Piña Coladas - it’s technically not the UK base the UK politicians and media are trying to fool us into believing it is, this evening. Is it?
    We currently get “something” from it so it’s a benefit to the UK. Now that might be at the whims of the US but it’s a benefit.

    The current plan would be like us giving Gibraltar to Morocco because in a different time they had administration over it then paying Morocco for the privilege of letting France have a military base there. It’s absolutely nuts.
    I don’t like it either. But that’s what the Indian and US governments cooked up for us to sign up to.

    The actual pressure on us came from India, the rising super power in the region. Not UN. India said Mauritius. So it is.

    Mauritius sees itself being a sort of African East Coast Singapore, accordingly has a bit of trade deal with China, but military and security deals with India.

    When Patel and Reform and US Senators say “China’s friend Mauritius” and don’t mention India, never mention India, they are just utterly embarrassing themselves really. Stretching fantasy they want to believe over it all, not sticking to the facts - in some sort of echo chamber where they don’t even want to listen and accept the facts.

    But that can only last for so long now 🙂
    Citations please for this "India" business?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,227
    edited 8:19PM
    Kaitlan Collins
    @kaitlancollins
    President Trump comments for the first time on Andrew's arrest, telling reporters on Air Force One, “I think it's a shame. I think it's very sad. I think it's so bad for the royal family. It’s very, very sad. To me, it’s a very sad thing." Trump said King Charles is a fantastic person “who’s obviously coming to our country very soon."



    https://x.com/kaitlancollins/status/2024571129168376022
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,871
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    boulay said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    How often do the police arrest and charge someone the same day? They arrest so that they can gather evidence and statements and allow themselves certain abilities that they cannot get with a friendly conversation and then build evidence to charge from info taken from interviews and examination of evidence received during and after arrest.
    They’re hardly likely to find a smoking gun this many years on in his residence that isn’t already available to them. His solicitor will be top notch and won’t be allowing any Pizza Hut or sweating based answers. So if the don’t already have the evidence they needed from the Epstein papers an other witnesses, it seems unlikely they’re going to be able to build a successful case.

    We’re not talking here about a run of the mill arrest for Joe Bloggs here but something that’s not happened in barely half a millennium. Just extraordinary to me they’d have made this move without robust evidence to charge him.
    You don't understand the legal process in this country do you?
    24 hours to charge or release. Build a case, put forward to the cps to obtain permission to charge. But this is not an ordinary case. The key witness to the accusation in question is dead. There are historic messages they already have. It all seems pretty flimsy to me and comes across as a bit of a stunt. And I say this as someone that thinks he’s most likely a pretty unpleasant man and quite possibly worse
    You are confused

    Andrew was arrested on malfeasance in public office and certainly Gordon Brown is very much alive and very angry

    He was not arrested for what you seem to think
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,312

    Taz said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Lucy Letby was baled twice over two years before she was charged/ fitted up.*

    * Delete as appropriate or if you are David Davis.
    Do we have any Letby Truthers here ?

    Peter Hitchens seems obsessed with her case.
    My father is not a Lucy Letby truther but he has followed the story will great interest because of his old job, and so have a lot of his colleagues, he and they think there's enough evidence to doubt her guilt, some think she's guilty as sin.
    I can understand that, I don’t have a clue on the technicalities but there is a question on the whole “beyond reasonable doubt” and if we are going to override that as a principle of the justice system that’s fine but we will get other cases where people will be very unhappy
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,880
    moonshine said:

    Taz said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Lucy Letby was baled twice over two years before she was charged/ fitted up.*

    * Delete as appropriate or if you are David Davis.
    Do we have any Letby Truthers here ?

    Peter Hitchens seems obsessed with her case.
    My father is not a Lucy Letby truther but he has followed the story will great interest because of his old job, and so have a lot of his colleagues, he and they think there's enough evidence to doubt her guilt, some think she's guilty as sin.
    That’s one of those cases that was so horrific I just avoided it entirely because I couldn’t bring myself to read about it. Pity the jurors in that one.
    One of the longest ever trials too. They sat there for 10 months.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,425

    Just an FYI, I am thinking of taking the whole of July off to watch the World Cup and then go on holiday.

    Well, that's the World Cup fucked is all I can say.
    Just to clarify, that's watching the World Cup on the telly at home, some of those knock out matches might not be finishing until 5am.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,312

    Just an FYI, I am thinking of taking the whole of July off to watch the World Cup and then go on holiday.

    When you're struggling for a header, do you ever just take a day off at short notice and let the cosmos do the work for you?
    What’s the longest time between an old and new thread out of interest?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,862

    Just an FYI, I am thinking of taking the whole of July off to watch the World Cup and then go on holiday.

    Slacker!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,871

    HYUFD said:

    Find OutNow

    Ref 28 (-1)
    Grn 18 (=)
    Con 16 (-3)
    Lab 16 (=)
    LD 10 (-1)
    Others 7 (+3)

    Gives Reform 347 seats and a small majority, Greens 68, LDs 66, Labour 47, SNP 45 and Tories 36
    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast/custom
    Those are made up numbers. We just don’t know how these vote shares will actually play out in terms of seats.
    Pointless in the present climate
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,880

    Taz said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Lucy Letby was baled twice over two years before she was charged/ fitted up.*

    * Delete as appropriate or if you are David Davis.
    Do we have any Letby Truthers here ?

    Peter Hitchens seems obsessed with her case.
    One of the strangest online communities I've seen were the McCann Truthers. Some high-profile crimes seem to attract them.
    I think I can top that. There are people who are convinced that Meghan Markle faked her pregnancies and the “children” we’ve seen are actually robots.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,104
    edited 8:26PM

    Taz said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Lucy Letby was baled twice over two years before she was charged/ fitted up.*

    * Delete as appropriate or if you are David Davis.
    Do we have any Letby Truthers here ?

    Peter Hitchens seems obsessed with her case.
    One of the strangest online communities I've seen were the McCann Truthers. Some high-profile crimes seem to attract them.
    When I first joined Twitter it was full of them.

    How does someone get so invested and obsessed into a single issue like that ? To the extent of stalking the Tapas diners.

    My idiot cousin was convinced the parents had killed the child and rather robustly shouted me down when I disagreed.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,425
    boulay said:

    Just an FYI, I am thinking of taking the whole of July off to watch the World Cup and then go on holiday.

    When you're struggling for a header, do you ever just take a day off at short notice and let the cosmos do the work for you?
    What’s the longest time between an old and new thread out of interest?
    Recently, about 30 mins when I found out that the Find Out Now poll was utter bollocks.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2026/01/28/another-boost-for-kemi-badenoch/

    to

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2026/01/28/please-exercise-caution-with-this-find-out-now-poll/
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,862

    moonshine said:

    Taz said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Lucy Letby was baled twice over two years before she was charged/ fitted up.*

    * Delete as appropriate or if you are David Davis.
    Do we have any Letby Truthers here ?

    Peter Hitchens seems obsessed with her case.
    My father is not a Lucy Letby truther but he has followed the story will great interest because of his old job, and so have a lot of his colleagues, he and they think there's enough evidence to doubt her guilt, some think she's guilty as sin.
    That’s one of those cases that was so horrific I just avoided it entirely because I couldn’t bring myself to read about it. Pity the jurors in that one.
    One of the longest ever trials too. They sat there for 10 months.
    Mum and I went to Chester Zoo back in September, the bus from the city centre went right past the Countess of Chester Hospital. "That's where Lucy Letby worked?"
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,312

    boulay said:

    Just an FYI, I am thinking of taking the whole of July off to watch the World Cup and then go on holiday.

    When you're struggling for a header, do you ever just take a day off at short notice and let the cosmos do the work for you?
    What’s the longest time between an old and new thread out of interest?
    Recently, about 30 mins when I found out that the Find Out Now poll was utter bollocks.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2026/01/28/another-boost-for-kemi-badenoch/

    to

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2026/01/28/please-exercise-caution-with-this-find-out-now-poll/
    I remember that but how long in days have you let a thread just run without interruption?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,103

    Trump is getting the US government to pay $10 billion to his Board of Peace, that he entirely controls.

    https://thehill.com/policy/international/5745297-trump-funding-board-of-peace/

    BILLION.

    It's not even corruption anymore with Trump. It's grand theft in broad daylight.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,227

    Taz said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Lucy Letby was baled twice over two years before she was charged/ fitted up.*

    * Delete as appropriate or if you are David Davis.
    Do we have any Letby Truthers here ?

    Peter Hitchens seems obsessed with her case.
    One of the strangest online communities I've seen were the McCann Truthers. Some high-profile crimes seem to attract them.
    I think I can top that. There are people who are convinced that Meghan Markle faked her pregnancies and the “children” we’ve seen are actually robots.
    Can you see these people in the room now Mr @bondegezou ?

    :smiley:
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,104

    Taz said:

    moonshine said:

    Hold on. Released without charge? They arrested the king’s brother, at a royal estate, without the king’s foreknowledge. And they didn’t even have any evidence to charge him?

    Lucy Letby was baled twice over two years before she was charged/ fitted up.*

    * Delete as appropriate or if you are David Davis.
    Do we have any Letby Truthers here ?

    Peter Hitchens seems obsessed with her case.
    One of the strangest online communities I've seen were the McCann Truthers. Some high-profile crimes seem to attract them.
    I think I can top that. There are people who are convinced that Meghan Markle faked her pregnancies and the “children” we’ve seen are actually robots.
    Strictly speaking wouldn’t that make them Androids, if it was true and not utter bollocks obvs.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,671
    MikeL said:

    Has there been a by-election poll?

    Labour has shortened significantly today. Latest:

    Green 1.55
    Reform 5
    Labour 6.2

    I saw one earlier that was good for Labour... Not sure if it was a poll or a prediction by one of the poll aggregators on X.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,227
    edited 8:27PM

    Just an FYI, I am thinking of taking the whole of July off to watch the World Cup and then go on holiday.

    Well, that's the World Cup fucked is all I can say.
    Just to clarify, that's watching the World Cup on the telly at home, some of those knock out matches might not be finishing until 5am.
    Probably wise to watch at home.

    I doubt a single one of us PBers would get into American unscathed at the moment.

    Well, apart from @Leon
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,654

    Just an FYI, I am thinking of taking the whole of July off to watch the World Cup and then go on holiday.

    Well, that's the World Cup fucked is all I can say.
    We won't be saying that when Scotland win it.
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