Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The jobs of one or more of Dave/Ed/Nigel/Nick could be on

13»

Comments

  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @TGOHF

    'Is he wheeling her out ? Literally'

    As long as she keeps him away from troughing at the Peninsula & Benjamin hotels,taxpayers on both sides of the border will be happy.

    Didn't realize he had such a women problem though.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/fears-over-racist-swans-terrorising-3398795

    Racist swans :D

    These swans live about a mile from my parent's house, their dog has gone in the water there before to harass them !

    A swan saw me and gf's family off when we went for a walk the other week, the pen was sitting on her eggs on the other side of the river, the cob saw us off ;)
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:


    unless the Lib Dems completely implode, which is unlikely..

    Unlikely, but certainly they are not a betting certainty NOT to implode completely. Scottish subsample (176 respondents) once again dire for the Lib Dems.

    Has anyone here lumped on wee Danny to hold ?

    Pulpstar said:


    unless the Lib Dems completely implode, which is unlikely..

    Unlikely, but certainly they are not a betting certainty NOT to implode completely. Scottish subsample (176 respondents) once again dire for the Lib Dems.

    Has anyone here lumped on wee Danny to hold ?

    Populus sub sample had LDs at 9% not really dire . Comres Euro poll sub sample had LD's retaining their Scottish Euro MP much to Stuart Dickson's disbelief .
    What about your belief? What do you think the odds are for Lyon holding?

    My own belief is less than 50% probably around 35%
    Would you rather bet 8/11 Clegg no longer LD leader on Jan 1 2016 or Even money he is?
    I don't expect Clegg to be leader on Jan 1 2016 . Neither will either Cameron or Ed M depending on which loses in May 2015 . I also ecpevt Farage to go following zero seats for UKIP in 2015
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    isam said:

    Morning all and very interesting that with polls being the way they are, Tories retained and regained very marginal council wards yesterday.

    I suspect Nigel Farage and UKIP may get most egg on the face next month. Media and Farage have built up UKIP to win by a country mile. If they barely win or even come 2nd/3rd that will be seen by many as a fail. Ed and Labour has been almost invisible but as these are largely Labour defending councils controlled by them in London and metropolitan areas, it has most to lose as the Labour List article earlier this week pointed out http://labourlist.org/2014/04/labours-prospects-this-may/ .If they see 125 gains as a great success, it raises the question just what do they expect to win?

    For the Tories, the media has already been talking down Tory prospects so if owing to a low turnout the Tories yet again win the Euro poll in terms of total votes and don't lose many MEPs or councillors, it will be seen as a success. The Tories will want to hold on to the Basildons of this world and if they do reasonably well in London, that will be encouraging for next year.

    As for the LibDems, surely given the unrelenting media attacks and low polling numbers, holding on to anything will be seen as a success.

    So coming back to the original question, I think of all the leaders, Nigel Farage has the most to lose if he doesn't deliver.

    Ah the old fashioned technique of setting yourself a goal and trying to achieve it... rather refreshing I think

    By the way, it is only political anoraks that would think 2nd for UKIP is a disaster... in the real world, it would be reported as "beating the Tories and running Labour close"

    No one has said they would win by a country mile, you're just setting them up for a fall (in your head)

    Google "Wythenshawe and Sale East" and see what the media made of UKIPs performance there compared to the PB editorial as an example
    25-30% will be just fine for UKIP, whether they come first or second. Under 25% would be a bit disappointing.

    One for Nick P is that the Danish Peoples' Party are now up to 27% in the latest poll.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:


    unless the Lib Dems completely implode, which is unlikely..

    Unlikely, but certainly they are not a betting certainty NOT to implode completely. Scottish subsample (176 respondents) once again dire for the Lib Dems.

    Has anyone here lumped on wee Danny to hold ?

    Pulpstar said:


    unless the Lib Dems completely implode, which is unlikely..

    Unlikely, but certainly they are not a betting certainty NOT to implode completely. Scottish subsample (176 respondents) once again dire for the Lib Dems.

    Has anyone here lumped on wee Danny to hold ?

    Populus sub sample had LDs at 9% not really dire . Comres Euro poll sub sample had LD's retaining their Scottish Euro MP much to Stuart Dickson's disbelief .
    What about your belief? What do you think the odds are for Lyon holding?

    My own belief is less than 50% probably around 35%
    Would you rather bet 8/11 Clegg no longer LD leader on Jan 1 2016 or Even money he is?
    I don't expect Clegg to be leader on Jan 1 2016 . Neither will either Cameron or Ed M depending on which loses in May 2015 . I also ecpevt Farage to go following zero seats for UKIP in 2015
    Never mind all that, Clegg is the only one the bookies are betting on

    So Clegg out at 8/11 a good bet, thought as much. Cheers
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    john_zims said:

    @TGOHF

    'Is he wheeling her out ? Literally'

    As long as she keeps him away from troughing at the Peninsula & Benjamin hotels,taxpayers on both sides of the border will be happy.

    Didn't realize he had such a women problem though.

    Unfortunately they've been racking up hotel bills in the US, on a 'Scottish Week' jolly.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Michael Savage ‏@michaelsavage 13h

    EXC: Standards commissioner opens new inquiry into expenses claims of Tory MP Peter Bone. http://thetim.es/1ger9Z0

    Glyn ‏@Welshbeard 1h

    Wellingborough's Conservative MP Peter Bone faces expenses inquiry related to his second home http://bbc.in/ONT7Qp

    Maybe he should have stayed in a hotel?

    LOL

    Marcus Chapman ‏@teapotchapman

    "MPs’ expenses surpass pre-scandal levels as 150 give jobs to family | via @Telegraph http://fw.to/waf8eKK " Peter bone paid his wife £50k!

    Didn't realise he had such a woman problem though.

    *chortle*
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    keith ferguson ‏@fergusonkeith 1h

    David Cameron still doggedly refusing to admit Maria Miller did anything wrong http://fb.me/2vrdXsM37

    Ed Malyon ‏@eaamalyon 15m

    Good start from the Maria Miller's replacement, claiming ticket touts are just entrepreneurs http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ticket-touts-are-classic-entrepreneurs-who-should-be-allowed-to-operate-without-interference-says-new-culture-secretary-sajid-javid-9252429.html
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    Financier said:

    Yesterdays Yougov showing a six percent lead had two mentions (taking away the piss takes of it's lack of mentions) all night. Todays Populus, five in fifteen minute.

    LOL. Those PB poll rules need to be adhered to.

    Some of us use nighttime for sleeping - you must be lonely in bed.
    You go to bed before 10pm? Do you remember to do your homework first?
    Neil said:

    Maybe I'm misremembering but I seem to remember more camaraderie between right-wing Tories and UKIP in the old days. Certainly nothing worse than exasperation with them. Now that UKIP are posing more of an actual threat there seems to be more hostility there.

    Normal, don't you think? I am fairly tolerant of the TUSC -old-fashioned people, mainly associated with the late Bob Crow, but heart probably in the right place, etc. If they stood in Broxtowe and scored 10% I'd be spitting feathers.

    Certainly. The purpose of UKIP was to put pressure on Cameron to shift rightwards.

    Now, UKIP is rather like one of those mercenary armies you recruit to win you power, and who then decide they'd rather be in charge themsel
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Mick_Pork said:

    Michael Savage ‏@michaelsavage 13h

    EXC: Standards commissioner opens new inquiry into expenses claims of Tory MP Peter Bone. http://thetim.es/1ger9Z0

    Glyn ‏@Welshbeard 1h

    Wellingborough's Conservative MP Peter Bone faces expenses inquiry related to his second home http://bbc.in/ONT7Qp

    Maybe he should have stayed in a hotel?

    LOL

    Marcus Chapman ‏@teapotchapman

    "MPs’ expenses surpass pre-scandal levels as 150 give jobs to family | via @Telegraph http://fw.to/waf8eKK " Peter bone paid his wife £50k!

    Didn't realise he had such a woman problem though.

    *chortle*

    He's expendable. If found to have done wrong, watch Cam go into super outraged mode and kick him out of the party.
    Then watch as the two approaches are compared.
    Laughable.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Sean_F said:

    Now, UKIP is rather like one of those mercenary armies you recruit to win you power, and who then decide they'd rather be in charge themsel

    .. and then bugger off having taken the money, looted the countryside, and availed themselves of your daughters.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Peter Bone's case is not helped by the fact that he appears to verge on the lunatic. Perhaps he might plan a strategic defection to UKIP?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Sean_F said:

    Financier said:

    Yesterdays Yougov showing a six percent lead had two mentions (taking away the piss takes of it's lack of mentions) all night. Todays Populus, five in fifteen minute.

    LOL. Those PB poll rules need to be adhered to.

    Some of us use nighttime for sleeping - you must be lonely in bed.
    You go to bed before 10pm? Do you remember to do your homework first?
    Neil said:

    Maybe I'm misremembering but I seem to remember more camaraderie between right-wing Tories and UKIP in the old days. Certainly nothing worse than exasperation with them. Now that UKIP are posing more of an actual threat there seems to be more hostility there.

    Normal, don't you think? I am fairly tolerant of the TUSC -old-fashioned people, mainly associated with the late Bob Crow, but heart probably in the right place, etc. If they stood in Broxtowe and scored 10% I'd be spitting feathers.

    Certainly. The purpose of UKIP was to put pressure on Cameron to shift rightwards.

    Now, UKIP is rather like one of those mercenary armies you recruit to win you power, and who then decide they'd rather be in charge themsel
    The tory BOOers aren't spitting feathers though. Quite the reverse. They think it's all going their way now. The soft tory Eurosceptics are certainly angry with the kippers but then they have been made to look laughably gullible on a regular basis by Cammie. So they can hardly blame it all on Farage even if they'd like to.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:


    unless the Lib Dems completely implode, which is unlikely..

    Unlikely, but certainly they are not a betting certainty NOT to implode completely. Scottish subsample (176 respondents) once again dire for the Lib Dems.

    Has anyone here lumped on wee Danny to hold ?

    Pulpstar said:


    unless the Lib Dems completely implode, which is unlikely..

    Unlikely, but certainly they are not a betting certainty NOT to implode completely. Scottish subsample (176 respondents) once again dire for the Lib Dems.

    Has anyone here lumped on wee Danny to hold ?

    Populus sub sample had LDs at 9% not really dire . Comres Euro poll sub sample had LD's retaining their Scottish Euro MP much to Stuart Dickson's disbelief .
    What about your belief? What do you think the odds are for Lyon holding?

    My own belief is less than 50% probably around 35%
    Would you rather bet 8/11 Clegg no longer LD leader on Jan 1 2016 or Even money he is?
    I don't expect Clegg to be leader on Jan 1 2016 . Neither will either Cameron or Ed M depending on which loses in May 2015 . I also ecpevt Farage to go following zero seats for UKIP in 2015
    Never mind all that, Clegg is the only one the bookies are betting on

    So Clegg out at 8/11 a good bet, thought as much. Cheers
    I'll be VERY surprised if he's still leader on Jan 1st 2015, let alone Jan 1st 2016. Indeed, I'll be surprised if he still in post Oct 1st 2014!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Mr Bone isn't Dave's best mate though now is he.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Sean_F said:

    Now, UKIP is rather like one of those mercenary armies you recruit to win you power, and who then decide they'd rather be in charge themsel

    .. and then bugger off having taken the money, looted the countryside, and availed themselves of your daughters.
    Titters ....

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Clegg will be in place on Oct 1st 2014.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Sajid Javid: media not to blame for Maria Miller's resignation


    New culture secretary tell's BBC Question Time that public was right to judge his predecessor for getting her expenses wrong

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/11/sajid-javid-maria-miller-bbc-question-time?CMP=twt_fd

    A 'bold' move indeed. Certainly not a hostage to fortune.
  • Neil said:

    Maybe I'm misremembering but I seem to remember more camaraderie between right-wing Tories and UKIP in the old days. Certainly nothing worse than exasperation with them. Now that UKIP are posing more of an actual threat there seems to be more hostility there.

    I think you are remembering correctly. It's not very surprising, is it? The exasperation with UKIP amongst those in the Conservative Party who would like us to leave the EU (a substantial number) is entirely logical, given that a referendum by the end of 2017 is a certainty if we have a Conservative majority. As Dan Hannan puts it, what part of the word 'Yes' do UKIP not understand? Not only are UKIP a threat in the sense of facilitating a Labour government, they are also a threat in the sense of cementing ever-closer union.

    Incidentally there's been an interesting development in the Conservative messaging. Rather than portraying UKIP as a load of wrecking counter-productive nutters, the line that Cameron and other ministers have been using is that 'UKIP simply can't deliver'. That's probably a wise approach for encouring the defectors to reverse their defection.
    The most interesting thing about the levels of support for parties like UKIP and Respect is thta it gives you an insight into the really rather high percentage of the electorate who are completely irrational nutters.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Pulpstar said:

    Mr Bone isn't Dave's best mate though now is he.

    LOL Noooope. Nor was Miller and some of the chumocracy bestest buddies if truth be told.

    It's just possible that the papers don't give a monkey's about any of that though. We shall see. ;)

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    isam said:

    Clegg to survive the Euros and GE2015 at Even money anyone?

    I don't have the money at hand to tie up on loads of long term bets, but if I did, 8/11 looks decent value to me...


    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/nick-clegg-to-be-lib-dem-leader-on-jan-1st-2016

    I'd say the only way he survives 2015 is to overachieve and remain in government in coalition. If the polling pans out, he will go as no leader is going to survive a halving or worse of parliamentary presence.
    I'd agree with that. Even if there aren't serious losses for the LDs, there's a pretty high chance of a coalition with Labour. In that case he's a dead man walking - too much bad blood between Clegg and Labour, and Farron, Hughs, et al waiting in the wings to lead a Glorious Socialistical Coalition.
    I think he'd stay. Imagine you're Ed Miliband. You want to be Prime Minister. You ran against your brother to get the leadership, and if you don't make it a lot of sneery people will say you bollocksed it up for both your party and your family.

    Would you:
    a) Cut a deal with Clegg, who whatever his faults doesn't seem to be a rigid ideologue who would be impossible to work with. Move straight into Number 10, stay there for at least five years.
    b) Insist that the LibDems get a new leader, them hang around for months while they pick them, and hope whoever gets the job decides to govern with you instead of scooping up your new ex-LibDem supporters, making up some principled-sounding objection to working with you and fighting a new election perfectly timed for their bounce.
    All that says is you think he's stay until the coalition was agreed - and I'd agree with you that the need to get an agreement down will outweigh all else.

    But in those circumstances his chances of surviving the next 7 months (the bet was for Jan 2016) are, in my opinion, pretty slim. It's not as if there is a shortage of other contenders...
    If the issue is the LibDems then they'd be in the same position they're in now: The party has to make a bunch of compromises that are likely to stick to the leader, so unless you're ready to fight an election right away, you're best leaving Clegg in place at least until close to the end of the parliament.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    antifrank said:

    Peter Bone's case is not helped by the fact that he appears to verge on the lunatic. Perhaps he might plan a strategic defection to UKIP?

    He has always looked like an unwell Sven Goran Erikson to me.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Interesting information about PanelBase from Cochrane;

    " However, before we leave the subject of pollsters I do think that Mr Salmond is attaching an enormous amount of trust in the Panelbase system that shows him to be gaining on his opponents.
    It is not disputed that the panellists are self-selecting – in other words you can volunteer to be on their panel and asked for your views on all manner of issues.
    There is a widespread suspicion that many Nat voters have so volunteered but I happen to know at least one individual who pretends to be no fewer than four different people whose views are sought regularly by Panelbase.
    I'm no expert but does that not suggest a contaminated system? ".
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    isam said:

    Clegg to survive the Euros and GE2015 at Even money anyone?

    I don't have the money at hand to tie up on loads of long term bets, but if I did, 8/11 looks decent value to me...


    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/nick-clegg-to-be-lib-dem-leader-on-jan-1st-2016

    I'd say the only way he survives 2015 is to overachieve and remain in government in coalition. If the polling pans out, he will go as no leader is going to survive a halving or worse of parliamentary presence.
    I'd agree with that. Even if there aren't serious losses for the LDs, there's a pretty high chance of a coalition with Labour. In that case he's a dead man walking - too much bad blood between Clegg and Labour, and Farron, Hughs, et al waiting in the wings to lead a Glorious Socialistical Coalition.
    I think he'd stay. Imagine you're Ed Miliband. You want to be Prime Minister. You ran against your brother to get the leadership, and if you don't make it a lot of sneery people will say you bollocksed it up for both your party and your family.

    Would you:
    a) Cut a deal with Clegg, who whatever his faults doesn't seem to be a rigid ideologue who would be impossible to work with. Move straight into Number 10, stay there for at least five years.
    b) Insist that the LibDems get a new leader, them hang around for months while they pick them, and hope whoever gets the job decides to govern with you instead of scooping up your new ex-LibDem supporters, making up some principled-sounding objection to working with you and fighting a new election perfectly timed for their bounce.
    All that says is you think he's stay until the coalition was agreed - and I'd agree with you that the need to get an agreement down will outweigh all else.

    But in those circumstances his chances of surviving the next 7 months (the bet was for Jan 2016) are, in my opinion, pretty slim. It's not as if there is a shortage of other contenders...
    If the issue is the LibDems then they'd be in the same position they're in now: The party has to make a bunch of compromises that are likely to stick to the leader, so unless you're ready to fight an election right away, you're best leaving Clegg in place at least until close to the end of the parliament.
    Lib Dems will follow the 'Brown' strategy as detailed by Labour previously to act as a giant lightning rod/dustbin for all their worries.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Mick_Pork said:

    keith ferguson ‏@fergusonkeith 1h

    David Cameron still doggedly refusing to admit Maria Miller did anything wrong http://fb.me/2vrdXsM37

    Ed Malyon ‏@eaamalyon 15m

    Good start from the Maria Miller's replacement, claiming ticket touts are just entrepreneurs http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ticket-touts-are-classic-entrepreneurs-who-should-be-allowed-to-operate-without-interference-says-new-culture-secretary-sajid-javid-9252429.html

    Can you explain why they are not?

    They are market-makers who are taking risk. Don't forget that as soon as the performance starts their inventory becomes significnatly discounted in value
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:


    unless the Lib Dems completely implode, which is unlikely..

    Unlikely, but certainly they are not a betting certainty NOT to implode completely. Scottish subsample (176 respondents) once again dire for the Lib Dems.

    Has anyone here lumped on wee Danny to hold ?

    Pulpstar said:


    unless the Lib Dems completely implode, which is unlikely..

    Unlikely, but certainly they are not a betting certainty NOT to implode completely. Scottish subsample (176 respondents) once again dire for the Lib Dems.

    Has anyone here lumped on wee Danny to hold ?

    Populus sub sample had LDs at 9% not really dire . Comres Euro poll sub sample had LD's retaining their Scottish Euro MP much to Stuart Dickson's disbelief .
    What about your belief? What do you think the odds are for Lyon holding?

    My own belief is less than 50% probably around 35%
    Would you rather bet 8/11 Clegg no longer LD leader on Jan 1 2016 or Even money he is?
    Clegg will almost certainly be gone by 1 Jan 2016. I'm surprised anyone's taking bets on it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    antifrank said:

    Peter Bone's case is not helped by the fact that he appears to verge on the lunatic. Perhaps he might plan a strategic defection to UKIP?

    Which bit makes him a good fit for UKIP? The alleged lunacy? Or the alleged expenses fraud?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146

    Interesting information about PanelBase from Cochrane;

    " However, before we leave the subject of pollsters I do think that Mr Salmond is attaching an enormous amount of trust in the Panelbase system that shows him to be gaining on his opponents.
    It is not disputed that the panellists are self-selecting – in other words you can volunteer to be on their panel and asked for your views on all manner of issues.
    There is a widespread suspicion that many Nat voters have so volunteered but I happen to know at least one individual who pretends to be no fewer than four different people whose views are sought regularly by Panelbase.
    I'm no expert but does that not suggest a contaminated system? ".

    If I offer a bet on which polling company will be closest to the referendum result, does that mean you'll scuttle off under your stone again?

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    If there's another hung Parliament and the Lib Dems are in coalition, Nick Clegg might be more difficult to winkle out of his job than some are assuming, even if they lose quite a lot of seats. Since that's quite a probable scenario, I'd counsel some caution.

    That said, I'd expect Nick Clegg to stand down voluntarily after the next election if the Lib Dems lose quite a lot of seats even in a hung Parliament. 8/11 is still value in my opinion, but not as overwhelming as some on here are assuming.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Neil said:

    Maybe I'm misremembering but I seem to remember more camaraderie between right-wing Tories and UKIP in the old days. Certainly nothing worse than exasperation with them. Now that UKIP are posing more of an actual threat there seems to be more hostility there.

    I think you are remembering correctly. It's not very surprising, is it? The exasperation with UKIP amongst those in the Conservative Party who would like us to leave the EU (a substantial number) is entirely logical, given that a referendum by the end of 2017 is a certainty if we have a Conservative majority. As Dan Hannan puts it, what part of the word 'Yes' do UKIP not understand? Not only are UKIP a threat in the sense of facilitating a Labour government, they are also a threat in the sense of cementing ever-closer union.

    Incidentally there's been an interesting development in the Conservative messaging. Rather than portraying UKIP as a load of wrecking counter-productive nutters, the line that Cameron and other ministers have been using is that 'UKIP simply can't deliver'. That's probably a wise approach for encouring the defectors to reverse their defection.
    The most interesting thing about the levels of support for parties like UKIP and Respect is thta it gives you an insight into the really rather high percentage of the electorate who are completely irrational nutters.

    Did you miss the results of the two Clegg vs Farage debates?

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    AndyJS said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:


    unless the Lib Dems completely implode, which is unlikely..

    Unlikely, but certainly they are not a betting certainty NOT to implode completely. Scottish subsample (176 respondents) once again dire for the Lib Dems.

    Has anyone here lumped on wee Danny to hold ?

    Pulpstar said:


    unless the Lib Dems completely implode, which is unlikely..

    Unlikely, but certainly they are not a betting certainty NOT to implode completely. Scottish subsample (176 respondents) once again dire for the Lib Dems.

    Has anyone here lumped on wee Danny to hold ?

    Populus sub sample had LDs at 9% not really dire . Comres Euro poll sub sample had LD's retaining their Scottish Euro MP much to Stuart Dickson's disbelief .
    What about your belief? What do you think the odds are for Lyon holding?

    My own belief is less than 50% probably around 35%
    Would you rather bet 8/11 Clegg no longer LD leader on Jan 1 2016 or Even money he is?
    Clegg will almost certainly be gone by 1 Jan 2016. I'm surprised anyone's taking bets on it.
    Much will depend on the HoC numbers.

    If Clegg and Co are in the 35-45 band and the Tories in 290-310 band then it's as you are but with the prospect that Clegg might stand down for another LibDem Deputy PM. OTOH he may take the view that the job is only half done and carry on.

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    I still can't for the life of me understand the Lib Dems' blind faith in Clegg. Let's face it, it's not just since the Coalition either -- his record between 2007 and 2010 was hardly spellbinding either. The Lib Dems' performance in byelections under his watch was very bad (even Menzies Campbell did a better job on that score), the single notable thing he did in that whole period was the Gurkhas/Joanna Lumley thing, and let's face it, any idiot could've got a huge bounce with the benefit of a widely-watched debate at a time when the two main parties were detested like never before. I certainly think Charles Kennedy would've done even better than him if he'd had the luxury of debates.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Pulpstar said:



    Racist swans :D

    At least there won't be any racist verbals from them because they are, er, Mute Swans.....
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Danny565 said:

    I still can't for the life of me understand the Lib Dems' blind faith in Clegg. Let's face it, it's not just since the Coalition either -- his record between 2007 and 2010 was hardly spellbinding either. The Lib Dems' performance in byelections under his watch was very bad (even Menzies Campbell did a better job on that score), the single notable thing he did in that whole period was the Gurkhas/Joanna Lumley thing, and let's face it, any idiot could've got a huge bounce with the benefit of a widely-watched debate at a time when the two main parties were detested like never before. I certainly think Charles Kennedy would've done even better than him if he'd had the luxury of debates.

    I don't think that it's so much blind faith as a recognition that the Lib Dems are in zugswang. Replacing the leader without changing the direction would be pointless, and simply contaminate another leading figure. Too many senior Lib Dems have dipped their hands in the blood for them credibly to change direction at this point in the Parliament. They're stuck for now.

    After the election it will be quite another matter.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    Scott_P said:

    Carnyx said:

    to what degree is it in hindsight

    That is the key issue

    Before the crash the SNP were claiming RBS as a Scottish success story. Now they are claiming it as an English failure.

    Andy Murray syndrome
    Not English: UK. There's a difference.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Danny565 said:

    I still can't for the life of me understand the Lib Dems' blind faith in Clegg. Let's face it, it's not just since the Coalition either -- his record between 2007 and 2010 was hardly spellbinding either. The Lib Dems' performance in byelections under his watch was very bad (even Menzies Campbell did a better job on that score), the single notable thing he did in that whole period was the Gurkhas/Joanna Lumley thing, and let's face it, any idiot could've got a huge bounce with the benefit of a widely-watched debate at a time when the two main parties were detested like never before. I certainly think Charles Kennedy would've done even better than him if he'd had the luxury of debates.

    I not too sure Charlie Kennedy lurching onto the debate platform smelling of single malt would have been too grand an idea.

    Whatever political stripe you are, it remains the case that Clegg has led the LibDems into a peacetime national government for the first time in 100 years and in doing so implemented a range of their policies. Whether they eventually get any long term electoral benefit or not will be determined next May.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    NIck Clegg has given the liberals something they haven't had in a century.

    A sustained peacetime period in power.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Interesting information about PanelBase from Cochrane;

    " However, before we leave the subject of pollsters I do think that Mr Salmond is attaching an enormous amount of trust in the Panelbase system that shows him to be gaining on his opponents.
    It is not disputed that the panellists are self-selecting – in other words you can volunteer to be on their panel and asked for your views on all manner of issues.
    There is a widespread suspicion that many Nat voters have so volunteered but I happen to know at least one individual who pretends to be no fewer than four different people whose views are sought regularly by Panelbase.
    I'm no expert but does that not suggest a contaminated system? ".

    If I offer a bet on which polling company will be closest to the referendum result, does that mean you'll scuttle off under your stone again?

    Are you on the Panel ? You seem remarkably defensive about this respected pollster.

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Populus are clearly the gold standard.

    Populus ‏@PopulusPolls 1m

    New Populus VI: Lab 35 (-2); Cons 34 (=); LD 11 (+2); UKIP 12 (-2); Oth 8 (+1) Tables http://popu.lu/s_vi140411


    'chortle'
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Daily Politics poll on the street in Waterloo sees as many people saying they are floating voters as already decided
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146

    Interesting information about PanelBase from Cochrane;

    " However, before we leave the subject of pollsters I do think that Mr Salmond is attaching an enormous amount of trust in the Panelbase system that shows him to be gaining on his opponents.
    It is not disputed that the panellists are self-selecting – in other words you can volunteer to be on their panel and asked for your views on all manner of issues.
    There is a widespread suspicion that many Nat voters have so volunteered but I happen to know at least one individual who pretends to be no fewer than four different people whose views are sought regularly by Panelbase.
    I'm no expert but does that not suggest a contaminated system? ".

    If I offer a bet on which polling company will be closest to the referendum result, does that mean you'll scuttle off under your stone again?

    Are you on the Panel ? You seem remarkably defensive about this respected pollster.

    No and no.

    Are you a betting eunuch? You seem remarkably reluctant to even acknowledge the possibility that you should defend your ill-informed assertions with hard cash.

  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_P said:

    Carnyx said:

    to what degree is it in hindsight

    That is the key issue

    Before the crash the SNP were claiming RBS as a Scottish success story. Now they are claiming it as an English failure.

    Andy Murray syndrome
    Not English: UK. There's a difference.

    In SNPese not English or UK but City, London or Westminster for all ills.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337







    @Morris_Dancer said:

    "Mr. Carnyx, but under a system devised by a Scot and with two Scottish Chancellors during the nation's worst recession in history.

    It's not legitimate to lay the blame for our current fiscal woe solely at the door of 'Westminster' as if Scots and Scottish institutions had no part to play in it. I'm not saying "Boo hiss, it's all your fault" just that there are Scottish elements to the cause of the problems we now face (as there are English ones, cf Bradford & Bingley and Northern Rock)."

    On a more general point: I had to go out to sort out a problem caused by financial companies' elementary incompetence (the sort which makes dealing with a relative's estate take about 5 times as long as it need). But the walk did at least enable me to pin down what I find so puzzling about a related issue, which is the way in which some - not you, but some - people keep complaining about Scottish prime ministers and the like.

    It is that so many opposed to indy seem to think it is somehow especially wrong for Scots as such to be in charge of the UK when things go wrong. Surely unionists ought to be blind to that sort of thing when the politicians i/c were all unionist politicians anyway. They would have some cause for complaint if Mr Salmond or an SNP or PC MP had been PM or Chancellor during the banking crisis, but he wasn't. The unionists are supposed to be preserving the union and fighting for it, not trying to damage it.

    Whether Blair, Brown and Darling are all Scottish and in what senses is a different question, but on the above analysis it's irrelevant anyway.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Charles said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    keith ferguson ‏@fergusonkeith 1h

    David Cameron still doggedly refusing to admit Maria Miller did anything wrong http://fb.me/2vrdXsM37

    Ed Malyon ‏@eaamalyon 15m

    Good start from the Maria Miller's replacement, claiming ticket touts are just entrepreneurs http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ticket-touts-are-classic-entrepreneurs-who-should-be-allowed-to-operate-without-interference-says-new-culture-secretary-sajid-javid-9252429.html

    Can you explain why they are not?

    They are market-makers who are taking risk. Don't forget that as soon as the performance starts their inventory becomes significnatly discounted in value
    There is a widespread view that it's a Good Thing if football can be watched at reasonable prices, rather than at the market-clearing rate which for important matches will be much higher. Many fans would rather have a shot at getting a moderately-priced ticket which might get sold out rather than have to pay £megabucks to a tout who buys up loads of tickets and then hopes to sell them to the richest fans. There isn't a general consensus that optimisation of markets is always best - clearly yes for something plentiful like Corn Flakes, but less so where capacity is limited.
    Sean_F said:



    One for Nick P is that the Danish Peoples' Party are now up to 27% in the latest poll.

    Don't think so - it's Venstre (classic right-of-centre liberals) who are on 27. The DPP is on 20, which is however still up 8% on the 2011 election:

    http://www.b.dk/politiko

    The position in Denmark has shown a clear centre-right majority against the centre-left government for a long time, the exact mirror image of the situation in Sweden.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Barnes said:

    JackW said:

    Danny565 said:

    I still can't for the life of me understand the Lib Dems' blind faith in Clegg. Let's face it, it's not just since the Coalition either -- his record between 2007 and 2010 was hardly spellbinding either. The Lib Dems' performance in byelections under his watch was very bad (even Menzies Campbell did a better job on that score), the single notable thing he did in that whole period was the Gurkhas/Joanna Lumley thing, and let's face it, any idiot could've got a huge bounce with the benefit of a widely-watched debate at a time when the two main parties were detested like never before. I certainly think Charles Kennedy would've done even better than him if he'd had the luxury of debates.

    I not too sure Charlie Kennedy lurching onto the debate platform smelling of single malt would have been too grand an idea.

    Whatever political stripe you are, it remains the case that Clegg has led the LibDems into a peacetime national government for the first time in 100 years and in doing so implemented a range of their policies. Whether they eventually get any long term electoral benefit or not will be determined next May.

    Not so much Clegg, more the Crapness of Cameron and his failure to win an open-goal election that meant they had to go cap in hand to the Lib Dems.

    Cameron gained over 90 seats and with 36% of the vote would have had a majority government with Labour on that number. Outwith the Alliance Clegg obtained the highest % vote for Liberals/LibDems in over a century.

    As the saying goes you're entitled to your own view but not your own facts.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Barnes said:

    This is revolting. Genuine question for Tories. Are you happy that your party's policies are having impacts like this? I couldn't breezily dismiss it as "inevitable isolated hard cases when tough choices are made blah" if it was a party I supported doing this.

    Macmillan's mountain of PIP cases includes a mother being treated with chemotherapy for bowel cancer, whose operation left her with a colostomy bag. She gave up work and, with no other family to help, her husband gave up his job to care for her and their two-year-old child, taking her to frequent hospital appointments. They claimed PIP last September – and they have heard nothing since. No-one answers queries, lost in the gigantic backlog.

    Until registered for PIP, which pays from £21-£134 a week, they can't claim other crucial benefits: carers allowance, severe disability premium, escape from the bedroom tax, a bus pass, taxi cards to get to hospital, or a heating grant (she feels intensely cold). With credit cards maxed out, they have no idea what they're due as PIP has tougher criteria: if this woman can just about walk more than 20 metres, she may get nothing now for mobility. Macmillan says people in this backlog are missing chemo appointments for lack of a bus fare.

    "I wish this couple were an exception," says Emma Cross. "But this is happening to so many."


    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/11/iain-duncan-smith-pip-payments-punish-poor-ill-dying

    That's a serious problem with implementation, not with policy. I agree it's disgusting that they've been left in that situation.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Clegg ...

    He's a cheery old card
    Grunted Harry to Jack
    As they went to the Euros
    With ballot and pack
    But he did for them both
    With his plan of attack

    Apologies to Siegfried Sassoon.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited April 2014
    O/T

    1. I have in my time said some very unpleasant things about the Royal Army Veterinary Corps but at least they can get dogs to march in step as they proved yesterday:

    twitter.com/ArmyPost/status/454551469723643906/photo/1

    Something the Irish Guards have never managed to do.

    2. Going back to yesterday's discussion on student fees. There is a young lad currently clearing my gutters for a very reasonable but fair price. He decided not to go to a full-time university but instead is doing his first degree with the OU and is running his gutter clearing business to pay his way, and his fees, while he does so. I predict he has a great future in front of him. He is also an example of how it is possible to get an education but not be saddled with debt.

    3. The re is a new PB Diplomacy game open for anyone who wants a go at this most fascinating game which rewards those who are cunning and devious. Log on to PlayDiplomacy.com, click on Join Game and navigate to PB 2014 MK3, the password is "catsandkittens".

    Tinkerty tonk
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    antifrank said:

    Too many senior Lib Dems have dipped their hands in the blood for them credibly to change direction at this point in the Parliament. They're stuck for now.

    I think Tim Farron could easily make the case for being semi-detached from the Coalition.

    If the LibDems do go down to just 1 or 2 MEP's, then their MP's faith in incumbency is going to be tested to the limits. I think mutterings of "a new guy can't possibly do worse than toxic Clegg" will resonate. Voters just won't listen to a LibDem message fronted by Clegg. There needs to be some mea culpa offered, to attract back any significant number of voters who have gone to Labour. That can't be delivered by Clegg.

    Saying Clegg delivered a period of LibDem peace-time Govt. is a bit disingenuous. He held the balance of power. That was despite delivering fewer seats in 2010 than in 2005. Clegg just got the benefit of some lucky arithmetic.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Interesting note from Natixis. It'll take Spain and Portugal 25 years and 22 years respectively to return to 2007 employment levels:

    http://cib.natixis.com/flushdoc.aspx?id=76042

    Euro crisis over!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    @NickPalmer

    Hi Nick

    Did you have any comment on the Hope Not Hate leaflet branding UKIP racists that was being handed out by the Labour Party? I replied to you with the link

    Also, what did you make of Jon Snow saying "I hesitate to use the word black when talking to you... " when interviewing Nigel Farage on Wednesday?

    Are these "racist" jibes fair game?

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    And a quote summing up the situation:

    "Realistically, I'd guess this means that Spain, Greece, Italy, Portugal, Ireland, etc., will never recover fully, and instead we're witnessing the birth of a crummy, tattered Franco-German empire with a permanently depressed periphery."

    http://theweek.com/article/index/259700/speedreads-no-greece-is-still-a-sucking-chest-wound-in-europe

    Would we rather have a free trade area with this? Or with booming North America and major emerging markets?
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Anorak said:

    Barnes said:

    This is revolting. Genuine question for Tories. Are you happy that your party's policies are having impacts like this? I couldn't breezily dismiss it as "inevitable isolated hard cases when tough choices are made blah" if it was a party I supported doing this.

    Macmillan's mountain of PIP cases includes a mother being treated with chemotherapy for bowel cancer, whose operation left her with a colostomy bag. She gave up work and, with no other family to help, her husband gave up his job to care for her and their two-year-old child, taking her to frequent hospital appointments. They claimed PIP last September – and they have heard nothing since. No-one answers queries, lost in the gigantic backlog.

    Until registered for PIP, which pays from £21-£134 a week, they can't claim other crucial benefits: carers allowance, severe disability premium, escape from the bedroom tax, a bus pass, taxi cards to get to hospital, or a heating grant (she feels intensely cold). With credit cards maxed out, they have no idea what they're due as PIP has tougher criteria: if this woman can just about walk more than 20 metres, she may get nothing now for mobility. Macmillan says people in this backlog are missing chemo appointments for lack of a bus fare.

    "I wish this couple were an exception," says Emma Cross. "But this is happening to so many."


    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/11/iain-duncan-smith-pip-payments-punish-poor-ill-dying

    That's a serious problem with implementation, not with policy. I agree it's disgusting that they've been left in that situation.
    Very unfortunate for those affected, and one hopes their situation is resolved swiftly.

    Still, Labour now have zero credibility when it comes to criticising healthcare in the UK. You only have to look at the crisis in Wales to see why.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    @NickPalmer Looking at the Hungary predictions I think you are closest.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Charles said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    keith ferguson ‏@fergusonkeith 1h

    David Cameron still doggedly refusing to admit Maria Miller did anything wrong http://fb.me/2vrdXsM37

    Ed Malyon ‏@eaamalyon 15m

    Good start from the Maria Miller's replacement, claiming ticket touts are just entrepreneurs http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ticket-touts-are-classic-entrepreneurs-who-should-be-allowed-to-operate-without-interference-says-new-culture-secretary-sajid-javid-9252429.html

    Can you explain why they are not?

    They are market-makers who are taking risk. Don't forget that as soon as the performance starts their inventory becomes significnatly discounted in value
    The word "entrepreneur" is accurate, but it's a stupid view to have anyway. Performance artists should be allowed to price their tickets in a way that makes a segment of them affordable to normal fans without just giving windfalls to touts.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    antifrank said:

    Too many senior Lib Dems have dipped their hands in the blood for them credibly to change direction at this point in the Parliament. They're stuck for now.

    I think Tim Farron could easily make the case for being semi-detached from the Coalition.

    If the LibDems do go down to just 1 or 2 MEP's, then their MP's faith in incumbency is going to be tested to the limits. I think mutterings of "a new guy can't possibly do worse than toxic Clegg" will resonate. Voters just won't listen to a LibDem message fronted by Clegg. There needs to be some mea culpa offered, to attract back any significant number of voters who have gone to Labour. That can't be delivered by Clegg.

    Saying Clegg delivered a period of LibDem peace-time Govt. is a bit disingenuous. He held the balance of power. That was despite delivering fewer seats in 2010 than in 2005. Clegg just got the benefit of some lucky arithmetic.
    Not so much lucky as more likely if a third party has 40+ seats in a HoC not dominated by a landslide.

    After WWII such a situation would have likely delivered either a minority government or Coalition in 1951, 1964, 1974 x 2, and 1992

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Barnes said:

    This is revolting. Genuine question for Tories. Are you happy that your party's policies are having impacts like this? I couldn't breezily dismiss it as "inevitable isolated hard cases when tough choices are made blah" if it was a party I supported doing this.

    Macmillan's mountain of PIP cases includes a mother being treated with chemotherapy for bowel cancer, whose operation left her with a colostomy bag. She gave up work and, with no other family to help, her husband gave up his job to care for her and their two-year-old child, taking her to frequent hospital appointments. They claimed PIP last September – and they have heard nothing since. No-one answers queries, lost in the gigantic backlog.

    Until registered for PIP, which pays from £21-£134 a week, they can't claim other crucial benefits: carers allowance, severe disability premium, escape from the bedroom tax, a bus pass, taxi cards to get to hospital, or a heating grant (she feels intensely cold). With credit cards maxed out, they have no idea what they're due as PIP has tougher criteria: if this woman can just about walk more than 20 metres, she may get nothing now for mobility. Macmillan says people in this backlog are missing chemo appointments for lack of a bus fare.

    "I wish this couple were an exception," says Emma Cross. "But this is happening to so many."


    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/11/iain-duncan-smith-pip-payments-punish-poor-ill-dying

    I'm pursuing a similar case - he's been waiting 6 months as they dive deeper and deeper into debt. His appointment keeps being postponed, and appealing to his MP has not so far helped. Another constituent tells me his daughter waited nearly two years for a decision. Both of them say they could possibly live with a "no" - it's the uncertainty that is killing them. My impression is that it's like the CSA - a complex system with far too few staff to handle it and an unwillingness a political level to grapple with it.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited April 2014
    OK Barnes. Genuine question for Labour.

    Are you happy that, in Wales under labour, people are waiting 100 days longer for hip and knee operations than under the coalition in England? (see today's Walesonline for link).

    Are you happy that, under labour, Welsh children are the ignoramuses of Europe in a country where good education is desperately needed?

    As we are on genuine questions you understand....
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TheWatcher

    Keeping abreast of the news or spouting off....

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-26975376

    your choice.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "Would we rather have a free trade area with this? Or with booming North America and major emerging markets?"

    Why should it be an "either or" decision? Surely, we should want a free trade deal with both and with India, Australia, maybe China (they don't seem to want to respect IP) and as many others as we can sign up. Its a shame we can't do that from within the EU where we can't even agree on a common market for services.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited April 2014

    The most interesting thing about the levels of support for parties like UKIP and Respect is thta it gives you an insight into the really rather high percentage of the electorate who are completely irrational nutters.

    Did you miss the results of the two Clegg vs Farage debates?

    You've forgotten the Europhile hand book.

    Step 1. Talk at the high level about undefinable concepts like "clout" and "openness"

    Step 2. If pinned down on specifics, claim credit for things that would have happened anyway, such as "three million jobs"

    Step 3. If you're called on misleading statistics then resort to calling your opponent crazy, reactionary or a bigot.

    Clearly Bond_James_Bond has skipped straight to step 3.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @Isam

    There is no point whatsoever in walking down the street asking people who they are going to vote for. The sample is not representative, it's too small, people will say anything to get rid of the 'pollster'. Live voodoo poll - the BBC should know a lot better.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited April 2014
    Timed out on an edit from my last post.

    Should read 1950 and 1951
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Smarmeron said:

    @TheWatcher

    Keeping abreast of the news or spouting off....

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-26975376

    your choice.

    All that extra waiting time has no affect on outcomes.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2586622/Welsh-cancer-patients-flock-England-treatment-forced-wait-weeks-life-saving-scans.html

    Would you be happy waiting longer for diagnosis?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    isam said:

    @NickPalmer

    Hi Nick

    Did you have any comment on the Hope Not Hate leaflet branding UKIP racists that was being handed out by the Labour Party? I replied to you with the link

    Also, what did you make of Jon Snow saying "I hesitate to use the word black when talking to you... " when interviewing Nigel Farage on Wednesday?

    Are these "racist" jibes fair game?

    My point about the HNH leaflet was that I'd not seen what UKIP in that area had been saying, so I couldn't judge whether it was an appropriate response. I don't really want to give a running commentary here on anything anyone says about UKIP - life is too short - but my view remains that UKIP in Broxtowe doesn't seem to me to be racist and I have no intention of saying they are. Clearly all parties attract some racists and I think it'd be fair to say that UKIP attracts more than, say, the LibDems, because if one's a racist then one will look for parties very critical of large-scale immigration, but I accept that Farage is trying to prevent them being an acceptable element of the party, and Snow's insinuation seems to me unfair.

    Fair enough? Just jumping into a car for a long trip so will be offline till the evening.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    BobaFett said:

    @Isam

    There is no point whatsoever in walking down the street asking people who they are going to vote for. The sample is not representative, it's too small, people will say anything to get rid of the 'pollster'. Live voodoo poll - the BBC should know a lot better.

    It wasn't "who are they going to vote for", it was "have they decided who they are going to vote for"

    Why isn't it representative? Its representative of people walking past The Old Vic in Southwark on a Friday morning

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Would you be happy waiting longer for diagnosis?

    Normally I wait until the left is fully on its high horse before I bring up Wales.

    This time around I couldn't resist it.

    I'm looking forward to the 'Wales rebuttal lines' that Labour will be issuing to Nick Palmer and the rest of Labour's candidates as we head for 2015...

    ''Our dreadful record in Wales is not relevant to our critique of Health and education in England because.....''
    (SPADS.....fill in five reasons please....)

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    @NickPalmer

    Hi Nick

    Did you have any comment on the Hope Not Hate leaflet branding UKIP racists that was being handed out by the Labour Party? I replied to you with the link

    Also, what did you make of Jon Snow saying "I hesitate to use the word black when talking to you... " when interviewing Nigel Farage on Wednesday?

    Are these "racist" jibes fair game?

    My point about the HNH leaflet was that I'd not seen what UKIP in that area had been saying, so I couldn't judge whether it was an appropriate response. I don't really want to give a running commentary here on anything anyone says about UKIP - life is too short - but my view remains that UKIP in Broxtowe doesn't seem to me to be racist and I have no intention of saying they are. Clearly all parties attract some racists and I think it'd be fair to say that UKIP attracts more than, say, the LibDems, because if one's a racist then one will look for parties very critical of large-scale immigration, but I accept that Farage is trying to prevent them being an acceptable element of the party, and Snow's insinuation seems to me unfair.

    Fair enough? Just jumping into a car for a long trip so will be offline till the evening.
    Yes a fair enough answer, I didn't see a reply before or forgot that I had

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461

    O/T

    1. I have in my time said some very unpleasant things about the Royal Army Veterinary Corps but at least they can get dogs to march in step as they proved yesterday:

    twitter.com/ArmyPost/status/454551469723643906/photo/1

    Something the Irish Guards have never managed to do.

    2. Going back to yesterday's discussion on student fees. There is a young lad currently clearing my gutters for a very reasonable but fair price. He decided not to go to a full-time university but instead is doing his first degree with the OU and is running his gutter clearing business to pay his way, and his fees, while he does so. I predict he has a great future in front of him. He is also an example of how it is possible to get an education but not be saddled with debt.

    3. The re is a new PB Diplomacy game open for anyone who wants a go at this most fascinating game which rewards those who are cunning and devious. Log on to PlayDiplomacy.com, click on Join Game and navigate to PB 2014 MK3, the password is "catsandkittens".

    Tinkerty tonk

    The OU is brilliant. It isn't acknowledged enough.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    I think OGH misses the point a bit on the incumbency factor for the Lib Dems..Incumbency only works if the electorate believes you are credible..the credibility of the LDs has been sorely tested and i think that the incumbency payoff that they are meant to have will diminish
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    It's all kicking off in Romford!!

    "Former Conservative fireband Alby Tebbutt will return to politics and join the Mayor of Havering at Ukip, and says he will “wipe the Romford Conservative Association off the face of the Earth.” "

    http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/politics/romford_political_stalwart_alby_tebbutt_to_run_as_ukip_councillor_1_3545491?usurv=skip
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461

    Barnes said:

    This is revolting. Genuine question for Tories. Are you happy that your party's policies are having impacts like this? I couldn't breezily dismiss it as "inevitable isolated hard cases when tough choices are made blah" if it was a party I supported doing this.

    Macmillan's mountain of PIP cases includes a mother being treated with chemotherapy for bowel cancer, whose operation left her with a colostomy bag. She gave up work and, with no other family to help, her husband gave up his job to care for her and their two-year-old child, taking her to frequent hospital appointments. They claimed PIP last September – and they have heard nothing since. No-one answers queries, lost in the gigantic backlog.

    Until registered for PIP, which pays from £21-£134 a week, they can't claim other crucial benefits: carers allowance, severe disability premium, escape from the bedroom tax, a bus pass, taxi cards to get to hospital, or a heating grant (she feels intensely cold). With credit cards maxed out, they have no idea what they're due as PIP has tougher criteria: if this woman can just about walk more than 20 metres, she may get nothing now for mobility. Macmillan says people in this backlog are missing chemo appointments for lack of a bus fare.

    "I wish this couple were an exception," says Emma Cross. "But this is happening to so many."


    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/11/iain-duncan-smith-pip-payments-punish-poor-ill-dying

    I'm pursuing a similar case - he's been waiting 6 months as they dive deeper and deeper into debt. His appointment keeps being postponed, and appealing to his MP has not so far helped. Another constituent tells me his daughter waited nearly two years for a decision. Both of them say they could possibly live with a "no" - it's the uncertainty that is killing them. My impression is that it's like the CSA - a complex system with far too few staff to handle it and an unwillingness a political level to grapple with it.
    I guess that's another post containing a dig at the person who beat you ...

    Tell me, did you manage to magically help all the people who appealed for help when you were MP?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    "Would we rather have a free trade area with this? Or with booming North America and major emerging markets?"

    Why should it be an "either or" decision? Surely, we should want a free trade deal with both and with India, Australia, maybe China (they don't seem to want to respect IP) and as many others as we can sign up. Its a shame we can't do that from within the EU where we can't even agree on a common market for services.

    You're right. The actual option is free trade with "Franco-German Empire with weak periphery" only, or most of that that AND free trade with North America AND free trade with the BRICs.

    For some reason people struggle with this decision.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    @Isam

    There is no point whatsoever in walking down the street asking people who they are going to vote for. The sample is not representative, it's too small, people will say anything to get rid of the 'pollster'. Live voodoo poll - the BBC should know a lot better.

    It wasn't "who are they going to vote for", it was "have they decided who they are going to vote for"

    Why isn't it representative? Its representative of people walking past The Old Vic in Southwark on a Friday morning

    Well exactly - you have just answered your own question...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    isam said:

    It's all kicking off in Romford!!

    "Former Conservative fireband Alby Tebbutt will return to politics and join the Mayor of Havering at Ukip, and says he will “wipe the Romford Conservative Association off the face of the Earth.” "

    http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/politics/romford_political_stalwart_alby_tebbutt_to_run_as_ukip_councillor_1_3545491?usurv=skip

    Some especially unfortunate phraseology from Mr Tebbutt particularly as Ukip are sometime criticized as a party of the far right.

    Engage brain before opening gob might be whispered in his lug hole.

  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    isam said:

    @NickPalmer

    Hi Nick

    Did you have any comment on the Hope Not Hate leaflet branding UKIP racists that was being handed out by the Labour Party? I replied to you with the link

    Also, what did you make of Jon Snow saying "I hesitate to use the word black when talking to you... " when interviewing Nigel Farage on Wednesday?

    Are these "racist" jibes fair game?

    My point about the HNH leaflet was that I'd not seen what UKIP in that area had been saying, so I couldn't judge whether it was an appropriate response. I don't really want to give a running commentary here on anything anyone says about UKIP - life is too short - but my view remains that UKIP in Broxtowe doesn't seem to me to be racist and I have no intention of saying they are. Clearly all parties attract some racists and I think it'd be fair to say that UKIP attracts more than, say, the LibDems, because if one's a racist then one will look for parties very critical of large-scale immigration, but I accept that Farage is trying to prevent them being an acceptable element of the party, and Snow's insinuation seems to me unfair.

    Fair enough? Just jumping into a car for a long trip so will be offline till the evening.
    And the other thing that isam seems to have conveniently forgotten about that interview is that its thrust was to undermine Farage's pose of being whiter than white on expenses. Snow pointed out that UKIP's record on expense in the European Parliament is terrible.

    While the insinuation of racism was below the belt, it was clear to me that what Snow was trying to do was make him angry. Interviewers such a Jon Snow know that Farage's weakness is a tendency to combustibility. C4 news already has the scalp of Godfrey Bloom and they would be delighted to add Farage to the collection (though he's a tougher nut to crack, and he just about managed to maintain his composure on this occasion). It's a rough business, politics, and UKIP have definitely been getting too easy a ride up to now. Hopefully, as 2015 approaches, Farage will become subject to rather more interrogative and combative approach than the 'oh do give us another of your one-liners, Nigel and here's a pint while you are at it' which seems to characterise a lot of his media contact. And I wouldn't be entirely surprised if at some point he has a major meltdown in an interview. The bluff cheeky chappy persona is a great strength, but he does, I suspect, lack the self-discipline that all successful politicians need.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    @Isam

    There is no point whatsoever in walking down the street asking people who they are going to vote for. The sample is not representative, it's too small, people will say anything to get rid of the 'pollster'. Live voodoo poll - the BBC should know a lot better.

    It wasn't "who are they going to vote for", it was "have they decided who they are going to vote for"

    Why isn't it representative? Its representative of people walking past The Old Vic in Southwark on a Friday morning

    Well exactly - you have just answered your own question...
    Normal people, rather than those that take time to sign up to answer questionaires
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Harry Phibbs @harryph

    So @billybragg now admits Charing Cross Hospital not closing but claims the A&E is. The A&E will remain. He should apologise.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    JackW said:

    isam said:

    It's all kicking off in Romford!!

    "Former Conservative fireband Alby Tebbutt will return to politics and join the Mayor of Havering at Ukip, and says he will “wipe the Romford Conservative Association off the face of the Earth.” "

    http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/politics/romford_political_stalwart_alby_tebbutt_to_run_as_ukip_councillor_1_3545491?usurv=skip

    Some especially unfortunate phraseology from Mr Tebbutt particularly as Ukip are sometime criticized as a party of the far right.

    Engage brain before opening gob might be whispered in his lug hole.

    Yeah! I saw the word "firebrand" the phrase "colourful character" and though "uh-oh"

    Cllr Steven Kelly (Con, Emerson Park) added: “Alby has been an inspiration to us at times and at other times he has been the despair of us.”

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited April 2014

    isam said:
    My point about the HNH leaflet was that I'd not seen what UKIP in that area had been saying, so I couldn't judge whether it was an appropriate response. I don't really want to give a running commentary here on anything anyone says about UKIP - life is too short - but my view remains that UKIP in Broxtowe doesn't seem to me to be racist and I have no intention of saying they are. Clearly all parties attract some racists and I think it'd be fair to say that UKIP attracts more than, say, the LibDems, because if one's a racist then one will look for parties very critical of large-scale immigration, but I accept that Farage is trying to prevent them being an acceptable element of the party, and Snow's insinuation seems to me unfair.

    Fair enough? Just jumping into a car for a long trip so will be offline till the evening.
    And the other thing that isam seems to have conveniently forgotten about that interview is that its thrust was to undermine Farage's pose of being whiter than white on expenses. Snow pointed out that UKIP's record on expense in the European Parliament is terrible.

    While the insinuation of racism was below the belt, it was clear to me that what Snow was trying to do was make him angry. Interviewers such a Jon Snow know that Farage's weakness is a tendency to combustibility. C4 news already has the scalp of Godfrey Bloom and they would be delighted to add Farage to the collection (though he's a tougher nut to crack, and he just about managed to maintain his composure on this occasion). It's a rough business, politics, and UKIP have definitely been getting too easy a ride up to now. Hopefully, as 2015 approaches, Farage will become subject to rather more interrogative and combative approach than the 'oh do give us another of your one-liners, Nigel and here's a pint while you are at it' which seems to characterise a lot of his media contact. And I wouldn't be entirely surprised if at some point he has a major meltdown in an interview. The bluff cheeky chappy persona is a great strength, but he does, I suspect, lack the self-discipline that all successful politicians need.
    Not at all re the expenses.

    I thought he answered brilliantly.

    (Paraphrasing)

    "We have used every loophole in the book to fund the party at the expense of the EU, I haven't bought a house with the money, and I haven't made myself a million quid out of it either"

    Snow has form for trying to connect UKIP w racism.. he is an ex commie who cant bear to see political correctness, forced quotas etc chucked in the bin, so has to resort to smears, even though he is meant to be impartial
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331


    Harry Phibbs @harryph

    So @billybragg now admits Charing Cross Hospital not closing but claims the A&E is. The A&E will remain. He should apologise.

    A&E at Charing Cross to remain? I had a leaflet though my door yesterday claiming that it's earmarked for closure.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    NEW THREAD .... and then another NEW THREAD ....
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    isam said:

    JackW said:

    isam said:

    It's all kicking off in Romford!!

    "Former Conservative fireband Alby Tebbutt will return to politics and join the Mayor of Havering at Ukip, and says he will “wipe the Romford Conservative Association off the face of the Earth.” "

    http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/politics/romford_political_stalwart_alby_tebbutt_to_run_as_ukip_councillor_1_3545491?usurv=skip

    Some especially unfortunate phraseology from Mr Tebbutt particularly as Ukip are sometime criticized as a party of the far right.

    Engage brain before opening gob might be whispered in his lug hole.

    Yeah! I saw the word "firebrand" the phrase "colourful character" and though "uh-oh"

    Cllr Steven Kelly (Con, Emerson Park) added: “Alby has been an inspiration to us at times and at other times he has been the despair of us.”

    Well quite ....

    One might be critical of Ukip for many things but dull it isn't.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461
    Reading Guido, the Tories' new code of conduct for MPs isn't as robust as people may like. One section of the 'employees' section seems slightly odd to me, saying they have the responsibility to: "understand the difference between normal work disagreements and harassment/bullying."

    ISTR a Lib Dem document about their disciplinary procedure (which is a different area to the code of conduct). Do we have similar 'code of conduct' and 'disciplinary procedures' documents for all the parties? This is the sort of thing they should be leading best practice on ...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_P said:

    Carnyx said:

    to what degree is it in hindsight

    That is the key issue

    Before the crash the SNP were claiming RBS as a Scottish success story. Now they are claiming it as an English failure.

    Andy Murray syndrome
    Not English: UK. There's a difference.

    In SNPese not English or UK but City, London or Westminster for all ills.
    I'm not a member. You are equating SNP = pro-Indy and probably also = Mr Salmond as well for all I know.

This discussion has been closed.