The first question is will there be a vacancy and no doubt Reeves will have to go first
Miliband is not the answer, indeed I am not sure anyone is
Mahmood seems the only one will real determination but as with the conservatives how can you trust the members to make the right choice ?
Morning Big_G. You are spot on - Reeves would be ousted first. Well, McSweeney first in the hope he can draw the poison, then Reeves. And finally Starmer.
The scenario is that Labour get routed in May. LibDem, Green, SNP, Reform, Plaid. They're losing to everyone bar the Tories. The slideaway is unmistakable and unavoidable. A change has to happen so that new leadership can turn the ship around.
I am not going to make predictions as to who that would be - my 25 years of Labour party membership tells me that members are capable of making major missteps.
For me Labour have two obvious threats - the Greens, and Reform. Ironically both of these parties speak to the same reality - the country is broken and why won't anyone do SOMETHING to fix it?
Polanski and Farage have the advantage of not thinking they will be the next government. Even Farage - he doesn't want to be PM, he doesn't think he can win hence telling donors a deal with the Tories is needed which he knows he won't get.
Labour? The government? Much harder. They need the Vision Thing. And the only person who has it is Ed Milliband. I know he is divisive, but a Britain refounded as a green industrial titan is something we could do. Become a leading exporter of clean energy and with it the technology that harnesses it.
Seems highly unlikely. We don't do either solar or batteries now, in terms of technology or mass manufacturing. And that's most of the future.
What we're likely to generate won't be cheap enough to export in quantities enough to underpin being an industrial titan.
What did you have in mind ?
The story was RR small modular reactors and £2.5bn into Fusion.
Pie in the Sky, very probably, but forward looking and big tech/engineering.
The UK electorate likes to think it’s kind and clever. So with child poverty, Labour leads us into a hiatus before we land squarely in the sunny uplands.
Hard yards kind of shite, maybe saleable?
What else have they got?
Things like that are fine as policies (and I support them, FWIW). What they aren't is a whole industrial strategy.
Bewildered that Ed Miliband is being discussed as a possible Labour leader.
Fun fact.
Ed Miliband is the only former leader who is still a Labour MP.
Edit - I think I'm also right in saying he's the only former Labour leader to remain in the Commons for more than 10 years after his leadership ended since the position of Labour Party leader was established in 1923.
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Maybe I am projecting, but don't other Labour members also want someone who can appeal to the electorate as a whole and win an election? I just think Wes is so far ahead of the other candidates as a political communicator that it will become obvious that he is the best choice.
I think we need to pick a shortllist who we're basically OK with before considering electoral appeal, which is elusive and often transitory, and leads to embarrassment even when it works in electoral terms. Essentially a Labour leader needs to both command at least broad acceptance in the party and in the public, and there's no point in choosing a leader who goes out of his way to pick fights with much of the membership. That's why I would struggle to accept Streeting as leader, whether he won an election or not, whereas I'd accept a moderate centrist even if I often disagreed with them. My basic requirement is a broadly acceptable medium-term strategy, and my main criticism of Starmer, who seems pleasant enough, is that he doesn't seem to have a medium-term strategy at all, evem one I'd personally disagree with.
Doesn't that just make you part of Labour's problems ? (TBF, I note you are anyway considering joining a different party.)
Ed Miliband is popular with Labour members, though a September Yougov poll had Streeting narrowly beating Miliband head to head with Labour members. If Streeting united on a joint ticket with Rayner that would also bring together the Blairite and left wings of the party.
Plus given Ed Miliband is the only Labour leader not to win a majority or even get a hung parliament at a general election he is hardly the nirvana of electability for the party
I'm not all that left-wing (never joined the Campaign Group and can't stand rabble-rousers like Scargill), but Angela Rayner doesn't strike me as at all left-wing, and Wes Streeting picks fights with the left to an embarrassing degree. I've decided to stay on in Labour but a Streeting-Rayner ticket would make me rethink.
EdM? Well, at least he stands for something positive, a reasonably coherent energy narrative.
As Gove said this morning, it seems unlikely that Rayner would sign up to be Streeting's "political girlfriend", and his implied suggestion to her that this is the route back to rehabilitation could be seen as somewhat insulting?
We need a dull, boring, unflashy batsman who resists any urge to entertain the crowd and doesn't mind just staying there doing nothing.
Does Sir Keir play?
We already have Root, who is quite capable of that. What's really needed are better players at the top of the order, and just a bit more common sense from the middle order.
The lady elephant in the room is there must be a chance of Labour convincing itself that its next Prime Minister needs to be a woman. We saw something like this with the deputy leadership election. It is quantifying that chance that is difficult, and knowing how to bet.
Ed Miliband is popular with Labour members, though a September Yougov poll had Streeting narrowly beating Miliband head to head with Labour members. If Streeting united on a joint ticket with Rayner that would also bring together the Blairite and left wings of the party.
Plus given Ed Miliband is the only Labour leader not to win a majority or even get a hung parliament at a general election he is hardly the nirvana of electability for the party
I'm not all that left-wing (never joined the Campaign Group and can't stand rabble-rousers like Scargill), but Angela Rayner doesn't strike me as at all left-wing, and Wes Streeting picks fights with the left to an embarrassing degree. I've decided to stay on in Labour but a Streeting-Rayner ticket would make me rethink.
EdM? Well, at least he stands for something positive, a reasonably coherent energy narrative.
A coherent narrative which gave the Tories their first overall majority general election win for 23 years in 2015. Even Corbyn twice got a higher Labour voteshare than Ed Miliband did.
If Ed Miliband became Labour leader again only one person would be more delighted than you...Kemi Badenoch
The lady elephant in the room is there must be a chance of Labour convincing itself that its next Prime Minister needs to be a woman. We saw something like this with the deputy leadership election. It is quantifying that chance that is difficult, and knowing how to bet.
They may be amenable to the idea that an openly gay prime minister gives them more bragging rights than finally having a female leader.
Ed Miliband is popular with Labour members, though a September Yougov poll had Streeting narrowly beating Miliband head to head with Labour members. If Streeting united on a joint ticket with Rayner that would also bring together the Blairite and left wings of the party.
Plus given Ed Miliband is the only Labour leader not to win a majority or even get a hung parliament at a general election he is hardly the nirvana of electability for the party
Good morning everyone. IIRC, although Ed M didn’t manage an overall majority he did gain seats (?seat) . It was the Conservative’s successful attack on their coalition partners which resulted in the 2015 Cameron government.
And neither Kinnock or Smith won an election.
Kinnock in 1992 won about 40 more Labour MPs than Ed Miliband in 2015. Smith had he lived would have won the 1997 general election
Ed Miliband is popular with Labour members, though a September Yougov poll had Streeting narrowly beating Miliband head to head with Labour members. If Streeting united on a joint ticket with Rayner that would also bring together the Blairite and left wings of the party.
Plus given Ed Miliband is the only Labour leader not to win a majority or even get a hung parliament at a general election he is hardly the nirvana of electability for the party
I'm not all that left-wing (never joined the Campaign Group and can't stand rabble-rousers like Scargill), but Angela Rayner doesn't strike me as at all left-wing, and Wes Streeting picks fights with the left to an embarrassing degree. I've decided to stay on in Labour but a Streeting-Rayner ticket would make me rethink.
EdM? Well, at least he stands for something positive, a reasonably coherent energy narrative.
A coherent narrative which gave the Tories their first overall majority general election win for 23 years in 2015. Even Corbyn twice got a higher Labour voteshare than Ed Miliband did.
If Ed Miliband became Labour leader again only one person would be more delighted than you...Kemi Badenoch
The last time an opposition made significant net gains of seats in its first election since leaving government was 1974.
Miliband did make a net gain of seats from the Conservatives in particular, but that was eclipsed by the train crash in Scotland to the SNP which pushed him to a net loss overall.
Indeed, Miliband's performance was comparable to Hague's, and somewhat better than Heath's and Attlee's.
That is a statistic that should give Badenoch pause, whoever leads Labour.
The lady elephant in the room is there must be a chance of Labour convincing itself that its next Prime Minister needs to be a woman. We saw something like this with the deputy leadership election. It is quantifying that chance that is difficult, and knowing how to bet.
I think that's very true.
Streeting of course also potentially gets a bit of a boost because he'd be the first openly LGBT PM.
(These things don't matter in the general scheme of things - people will just want someone who does a good job - but we do have to remember that they do matter to a good chunk of the Labour selectorate).
Personally I think Labour's problems are much deeper than who their leader is. But Streeting or Burnham are probably their two best chances because I think they can communicate much better. I think Mahmood is the most in tune with the country right now, but I don't think she can get past the selectorate. Rayner, Phillipson, Reeves, Lammy, Miliband would all be disastrous.
Ed Miliband is popular with Labour members, though a September Yougov poll had Streeting narrowly beating Miliband head to head with Labour members. If Streeting united on a joint ticket with Rayner that would also bring together the Blairite and left wings of the party.
Plus given Ed Miliband is the only Labour leader not to win a majority or even get a hung parliament at a general election he is hardly the nirvana of electability for the party
I'm not all that left-wing (never joined the Campaign Group and can't stand rabble-rousers like Scargill), but Angela Rayner doesn't strike me as at all left-wing, and Wes Streeting picks fights with the left to an embarrassing degree. I've decided to stay on in Labour but a Streeting-Rayner ticket would make me rethink.
EdM? Well, at least he stands for something positive, a reasonably coherent energy narrative.
A coherent narrative which gave the Tories their first overall majority general election win for 23 years in 2015. Even Corbyn twice got a higher Labour voteshare than Ed Miliband did.
If Ed Miliband became Labour leader again only one person would be more delighted than you...Kemi Badenoch
Yes, why pick a previous loser..💩 It's like a football manager who relegated the team being asked back after his successor at least got a top 4 place..🧐
Ed Miliband is popular with Labour members, though a September Yougov poll had Streeting narrowly beating Miliband head to head with Labour members. If Streeting united on a joint ticket with Rayner that would also bring together the Blairite and left wings of the party.
Plus given Ed Miliband is the only Labour leader not to win a majority or even get a hung parliament at a general election he is hardly the nirvana of electability for the party
I'm not all that left-wing (never joined the Campaign Group and can't stand rabble-rousers like Scargill), but Angela Rayner doesn't strike me as at all left-wing, and Wes Streeting picks fights with the left to an embarrassing degree. I've decided to stay on in Labour but a Streeting-Rayner ticket would make me rethink.
EdM? Well, at least he stands for something positive, a reasonably coherent energy narrative.
A coherent narrative which gave the Tories their first overall majority general election win for 23 years in 2015. Even Corbyn twice got a higher Labour voteshare than Ed Miliband did.
If Ed Miliband became Labour leader again only one person would be more delighted than you...Kemi Badenoch
The last time an opposition made significant net gains of seats in its first election since leaving government was 1974.
Miliband did make a net gain of seats from the Conservatives in particular, but that was eclipsed by the train crash in Scotland to the SNP which pushed him to a net loss overall.
Indeed, Miliband's performance was comparable to Hague's, and somewhat better than Heath's and Attlee's.
That is a statistic that should give Badenoch pause, whoever leads Labour.
Heath and Attlee won general elections and Ed Miliband was starting off with fewer MPs than them but still made a net loss in 2015. Yes he was the Labour Hague, intellectual and popular with party members but a massive turn off for swing voters and too geeky and too much of a nerd to really be considered as PM
Ed Miliband is popular with Labour members, though a September Yougov poll had Streeting narrowly beating Miliband head to head with Labour members. If Streeting united on a joint ticket with Rayner that would also bring together the Blairite and left wings of the party.
Plus given Ed Miliband is the only Labour leader not to win a majority or even get a hung parliament at a general election he is hardly the nirvana of electability for the party
I'm not all that left-wing (never joined the Campaign Group and can't stand rabble-rousers like Scargill), but Angela Rayner doesn't strike me as at all left-wing, and Wes Streeting picks fights with the left to an embarrassing degree. I've decided to stay on in Labour but a Streeting-Rayner ticket would make me rethink.
EdM? Well, at least he stands for something positive, a reasonably coherent energy narrative.
I'm glad you decided to stay, your politics don't seem dissimilar to mine.
I agree that Streeting has such a history of fomenting division that he could never be a unifying force, rather he would likely lead Labour into an existential crisis. By contrast the party membership would accept either Rayner or Miliband as a unifying force and either would have a chance of clawing back some of the support lost to the greens, both members and the wider electorate. Rayner has told Streeting where to go and if a deal is done between leadership candidates the only realistic prospect of a pact is between Miliband and Rayner, which would boost either's chances.
Ed Miliband is popular with Labour members, though a September Yougov poll had Streeting narrowly beating Miliband head to head with Labour members. If Streeting united on a joint ticket with Rayner that would also bring together the Blairite and left wings of the party.
Plus given Ed Miliband is the only Labour leader not to win a majority or even get a hung parliament at a general election he is hardly the nirvana of electability for the party
I'm not all that left-wing (never joined the Campaign Group and can't stand rabble-rousers like Scargill), but Angela Rayner doesn't strike me as at all left-wing, and Wes Streeting picks fights with the left to an embarrassing degree. I've decided to stay on in Labour but a Streeting-Rayner ticket would make me rethink.
EdM? Well, at least he stands for something positive, a reasonably coherent energy narrative.
I'm glad you decided to stay, your politics don't seem dissimilar to mine.
I agree that Streeting has such a history of fomenting division that he could never be a unifying force, rather he would likely lead Labour into an existential crisis. By contrast the party membership would accept either Rayner or Miliband as a unifying force and either would have a chance of clawing back some of the support lost to the greens, both members and the wider electorate. Rayner has told Streeting where to go and if a deal is done between leadership candidates the only realistic prospect of a pact is between Miliband and Rayner, which would boost either's chances.
Starmer is hateable, but Milliband is pitiable. It would be worse.
Indeed I don't dislike Ed Miliband but he has weak leader written all over him. If Labour want a more electable leader than Starmer then Streeting or Burnham are their only real options
The lady elephant in the room is there must be a chance of Labour convincing itself that its next Prime Minister needs to be a woman. We saw something like this with the deputy leadership election. It is quantifying that chance that is difficult, and knowing how to bet.
They may be amenable to the idea that an openly gay prime minister gives them more bragging rights than finally having a female leader.
They might, which just adds another complication. However, it will be noted by many that the Conservatives have had three female Prime Ministers, and Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have each had or have female First Ministers.
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Streeting seems like he could host This Morning quite easily, he seems quite a natural on tv rather than a stuffy politician. If it wasn’t for that erroneous tweet about the Downing St parties I don’t think I’d have much bad to say about him
Got him as a small loser though
I've had a look at the timing of that Tweet.
So it was a couple of days before the story broke about Number 10 staffers partying the night before the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral.
The Westminster rumour mill was in overdrive at that moment, both OGH and myself heard independently that there was going to be a new story going to break that in the words of my contact 'Boris Johnson's going to get Gough Whitlam'd by the Queen.'
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Wes Streeting heard the same rumours and it kinda fitted with his timeline, gets diagnosed in March/April 2021.
No, he tweeted the day the news of the Downing St party in May 2020 broke, using the specific date of his surgery to suggest those attending the party would be hungover as he was waiting to be operated on. If the party had been the day before his surgery, it would have been a very effective point. But it was 366 days before. It is madness to suggest he wasn’t referring to the massive breaking news of the day, it couldn’t be clearer
A mistake, it happens, but he should acknowledge it. I’m sure he will if it’s brought up during a leadership campaign
Why should he acknowledge it, it was years ago, what does it matter now?
Who exactly is going to bring it up, during a Labour leadership campaign?
You were overly critical of Boris is not going to be harmful to a Labour leadership campaign.
Politicians are asked all sorts of questions about the veracity of things they’ve previously said or done, look at Rachel Reeves now. She’s getting stories written about chess tournaments from the mid 90s. Farage is being asked about things he said at school in the 70s. So I don’t see why Streeting wouldn’t be asked about an erroneous tweet from 2022
I don’t really care if he becomes Labour leader or not, and I don’t particularly dislike him, I’m just a pedant like many others on here, although some are choosing not to be on this matter!
Farage is being asked about things that suit accusations about him being a racist to date, but the only people who really care are people who already dislike him anyway.
Reeves has faced accusations about sexing up her CV, but the only people who really care are those who dislike her anyway.
Being critical of a Tory PM, even slightly erroneously, is not going to harm any Labour leadership candidate.
Ed Miliband is popular with Labour members, though a September Yougov poll had Streeting narrowly beating Miliband head to head with Labour members. If Streeting united on a joint ticket with Rayner that would also bring together the Blairite and left wings of the party.
Plus given Ed Miliband is the only Labour leader not to win a majority or even get a hung parliament at a general election he is hardly the nirvana of electability for the party
I'm not all that left-wing (never joined the Campaign Group and can't stand rabble-rousers like Scargill), but Angela Rayner doesn't strike me as at all left-wing, and Wes Streeting picks fights with the left to an embarrassing degree. I've decided to stay on in Labour but a Streeting-Rayner ticket would make me rethink.
EdM? Well, at least he stands for something positive, a reasonably coherent energy narrative.
I'm glad you decided to stay, your politics don't seem dissimilar to mine.
I agree that Streeting has such a history of fomenting division that he could never be a unifying force, rather he would likely lead Labour into an existential crisis. By contrast the party membership would accept either Rayner or Miliband as a unifying force and either would have a chance of clawing back some of the support lost to the greens, both members and the wider electorate. Rayner has told Streeting where to go and if a deal is done between leadership candidates the only realistic prospect of a pact is between Miliband and Rayner, which would boost either's chances.
What are your thoughts on Mahmood?
That poll is very much out of line with the results of the regular Survation poll of Labour members which shows that Mahmood's support has plummeted and is in the same ball park as Reeves and Starmer. So a no hoper.
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Streeting seems like he could host This Morning quite easily, he seems quite a natural on tv rather than a stuffy politician. If it wasn’t for that erroneous tweet about the Downing St parties I don’t think I’d have much bad to say about him
Got him as a small loser though
I've had a look at the timing of that Tweet.
So it was a couple of days before the story broke about Number 10 staffers partying the night before the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral.
The Westminster rumour mill was in overdrive at that moment, both OGH and myself heard independently that there was going to be a new story going to break that in the words of my contact 'Boris Johnson's going to get Gough Whitlam'd by the Queen.'
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Wes Streeting heard the same rumours and it kinda fitted with his timeline, gets diagnosed in March/April 2021.
No, he tweeted the day the news of the Downing St party in May 2020 broke, using the specific date of his surgery to suggest those attending the party would be hungover as he was waiting to be operated on. If the party had been the day before his surgery, it would have been a very effective point. But it was 366 days before. It is madness to suggest he wasn’t referring to the massive breaking news of the day, it couldn’t be clearer
A mistake, it happens, but he should acknowledge it. I’m sure he will if it’s brought up during a leadership campaign
Why should he acknowledge it, it was years ago, what does it matter now?
Who exactly is going to bring it up, during a Labour leadership campaign?
You were overly critical of Boris is not going to be harmful to a Labour leadership campaign.
Politicians are asked all sorts of questions about the veracity of things they’ve previously said or done, look at Rachel Reeves now. She’s getting stories written about chess tournaments from the mid 90s. Farage is being asked about things he said at school in the 70s. So I don’t see why Streeting wouldn’t be asked about an erroneous tweet from 2022
I don’t really care if he becomes Labour leader or not, and I don’t particularly dislike him, I’m just a pedant like many others on here, although some are choosing not to be on this matter!
Farage is being asked about things that suit accusations about him being a racist to date, but the only people who really care are people who already dislike him anyway.
Reeves has faced accusations about sexing up her CV, but the only people who really care are those who dislike her anyway.
Being critical of a Tory PM, even slightly erroneously, is not going to harm any Labour leadership candidate.
I mostly agree, but I think the Farage stuff does cut through a bit. There is plenty of the electorate who think immigration was too high, but aren’t on board with singing Hitler songs.
Ed Miliband is popular with Labour members, though a September Yougov poll had Streeting narrowly beating Miliband head to head with Labour members. If Streeting united on a joint ticket with Rayner that would also bring together the Blairite and left wings of the party.
Plus given Ed Miliband is the only Labour leader not to win a majority or even get a hung parliament at a general election he is hardly the nirvana of electability for the party
I'm not all that left-wing (never joined the Campaign Group and can't stand rabble-rousers like Scargill), but Angela Rayner doesn't strike me as at all left-wing, and Wes Streeting picks fights with the left to an embarrassing degree. I've decided to stay on in Labour but a Streeting-Rayner ticket would make me rethink.
EdM? Well, at least he stands for something positive, a reasonably coherent energy narrative.
I'm glad you decided to stay, your politics don't seem dissimilar to mine.
I agree that Streeting has such a history of fomenting division that he could never be a unifying force, rather he would likely lead Labour into an existential crisis. By contrast the party membership would accept either Rayner or Miliband as a unifying force and either would have a chance of clawing back some of the support lost to the greens, both members and the wider electorate. Rayner has told Streeting where to go and if a deal is done between leadership candidates the only realistic prospect of a pact is between Miliband and Rayner, which would boost either's chances.
What are your thoughts on Mahmood?
That poll is very much out of line with the results of the regular Survation poll of Labour members which shows that Mahmood's support has plummeted and is in the same ball park as Reeves and Starmer. So a no hoper.
Personally I think she has the right instincts but that her proposals on migration and citizenship have gone too far.
If we are to avoid a PM Farage or perhaps worse a PM Jenrick, then Mahmood and Streeting are the ones that need to influence the government the most. I get why they are not popular with the members but just as the Conservative were wrong to sideline Rory the ex Tory who had cross over appeal I suspect Labour will do similar post Starmer.
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Streeting seems like he could host This Morning quite easily, he seems quite a natural on tv rather than a stuffy politician. If it wasn’t for that erroneous tweet about the Downing St parties I don’t think I’d have much bad to say about him
Got him as a small loser though
I've had a look at the timing of that Tweet.
So it was a couple of days before the story broke about Number 10 staffers partying the night before the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral.
The Westminster rumour mill was in overdrive at that moment, both OGH and myself heard independently that there was going to be a new story going to break that in the words of my contact 'Boris Johnson's going to get Gough Whitlam'd by the Queen.'
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Wes Streeting heard the same rumours and it kinda fitted with his timeline, gets diagnosed in March/April 2021.
No, he tweeted the day the news of the Downing St party in May 2020 broke, using the specific date of his surgery to suggest those attending the party would be hungover as he was waiting to be operated on. If the party had been the day before his surgery, it would have been a very effective point. But it was 366 days before. It is madness to suggest he wasn’t referring to the massive breaking news of the day, it couldn’t be clearer
A mistake, it happens, but he should acknowledge it. I’m sure he will if it’s brought up during a leadership campaign
Why should he acknowledge it, it was years ago, what does it matter now?
Who exactly is going to bring it up, during a Labour leadership campaign?
You were overly critical of Boris is not going to be harmful to a Labour leadership campaign.
Politicians are asked all sorts of questions about the veracity of things they’ve previously said or done, look at Rachel Reeves now. She’s getting stories written about chess tournaments from the mid 90s. Farage is being asked about things he said at school in the 70s. So I don’t see why Streeting wouldn’t be asked about an erroneous tweet from 2022
I don’t really care if he becomes Labour leader or not, and I don’t particularly dislike him, I’m just a pedant like many others on here, although some are choosing not to be on this matter!
Farage is being asked about things that suit accusations about him being a racist to date, but the only people who really care are people who already dislike him anyway.
Reeves has faced accusations about sexing up her CV, but the only people who really care are those who dislike her anyway.
Being critical of a Tory PM, even slightly erroneously, is not going to harm any Labour leadership candidate.
I mostly agree, but I think the Farage stuff does cut through a bit. There is plenty of the electorate who think immigration was too high, but aren’t on board with singing Hitler songs.
And that plenty would have disliked Farage for years.
I don’t dislike EdM, but there seems to be the idea floating around that he has grown into some kind of elder statesman. To me he seems to have got weirder and less relatable with age. I think he’d be a disaster really, but if I were on at 100/1 I’d be happy. He’s a small loser in my book, the big winners would be Lucy Powell, David Lammy, Torsten Bell or Rachel Reeves, although nothing life changing. Worst result is Nigel Farage!
A her dof donkeys there and Milliband is just Forest Gump without the charisma or brains
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Streeting seems like he could host This Morning quite easily, he seems quite a natural on tv rather than a stuffy politician. If it wasn’t for that erroneous tweet about the Downing St parties I don’t think I’d have much bad to say about him
Got him as a small loser though
I've had a look at the timing of that Tweet.
So it was a couple of days before the story broke about Number 10 staffers partying the night before the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral.
The Westminster rumour mill was in overdrive at that moment, both OGH and myself heard independently that there was going to be a new story going to break that in the words of my contact 'Boris Johnson's going to get Gough Whitlam'd by the Queen.'
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Wes Streeting heard the same rumours and it kinda fitted with his timeline, gets diagnosed in March/April 2021.
No, he tweeted the day the news of the Downing St party in May 2020 broke, using the specific date of his surgery to suggest those attending the party would be hungover as he was waiting to be operated on. If the party had been the day before his surgery, it would have been a very effective point. But it was 366 days before. It is madness to suggest he wasn’t referring to the massive breaking news of the day, it couldn’t be clearer
A mistake, it happens, but he should acknowledge it. I’m sure he will if it’s brought up during a leadership campaign
Why should he acknowledge it, it was years ago, what does it matter now?
Who exactly is going to bring it up, during a Labour leadership campaign?
You were overly critical of Boris is not going to be harmful to a Labour leadership campaign.
Politicians are asked all sorts of questions about the veracity of things they’ve previously said or done, look at Rachel Reeves now. She’s getting stories written about chess tournaments from the mid 90s. Farage is being asked about things he said at school in the 70s. So I don’t see why Streeting wouldn’t be asked about an erroneous tweet from 2022
I don’t really care if he becomes Labour leader or not, and I don’t particularly dislike him, I’m just a pedant like many others on here, although some are choosing not to be on this matter!
Farage is being asked about things that suit accusations about him being a racist to date, but the only people who really care are people who already dislike him anyway.
Reeves has faced accusations about sexing up her CV, but the only people who really care are those who dislike her anyway.
Being critical of a Tory PM, even slightly erroneously, is not going to harm any Labour leadership candidate.
I mostly agree, but I think the Farage stuff does cut through a bit. There is plenty of the electorate who think immigration was too high, but aren’t on board with singing Hitler songs.
Done as a teenager forty years ago could be overlooked, perhaps. The bigger flaw is the repeated denial in the face of multiple witnesses and lashing out at the media in response.
What would such a leader do with the Post Office Scandal or Hillsborough?
The first question is will there be a vacancy and no doubt Reeves will have to go first
Miliband is not the answer, indeed I am not sure anyone is
Mahmood seems the only one will real determination but as with the conservatives how can you trust the members to make the right choice ?
Morning Big_G. You are spot on - Reeves would be ousted first. Well, McSweeney first in the hope he can draw the poison, then Reeves. And finally Starmer.
The scenario is that Labour get routed in May. LibDem, Green, SNP, Reform, Plaid. They're losing to everyone bar the Tories. The slideaway is unmistakable and unavoidable. A change has to happen so that new leadership can turn the ship around.
I am not going to make predictions as to who that would be - my 25 years of Labour party membership tells me that members are capable of making major missteps.
For me Labour have two obvious threats - the Greens, and Reform. Ironically both of these parties speak to the same reality - the country is broken and why won't anyone do SOMETHING to fix it?
Polanski and Farage have the advantage of not thinking they will be the next government. Even Farage - he doesn't want to be PM, he doesn't think he can win hence telling donors a deal with the Tories is needed which he knows he won't get.
Labour? The government? Much harder. They need the Vision Thing. And the only person who has it is Ed Milliband. I know he is divisive, but a Britain refounded as a green industrial titan is something we could do. Become a leading exporter of clean energy and with it the technology that harnesses it.
In Scotland polls show a swing from SNP to Labour since 2021 so Labour should make gains there. Combined with Labour winning in London again and going into government with Plaid in Wales even if they come third in Wales that might be enough for Starmer to stay on despite losses to Reform and the Greens
The group said it carried out the stunt to demand the UK government establishes a permanent citizen's assembly - a "House of the People"
We have that, its called the House of Commons. Dickheads. 🤦♂️
All that expensive private education wasted on these people.
IMO, media should minimise their coverage of these stunts and certainly not allow them to give their talking points. Its like streaking basically stopped as soon as they refused to show it on tv.
Don't they know there are starving children in Africa? (School dinners joke!)
Predictably, police have closed it while they sniff around, thus, as is there normal practice, inconveniencing tourists and greatly magnifying the impact of the initial publicity stunt.
Ed Miliband is popular with Labour members, though a September Yougov poll had Streeting narrowly beating Miliband head to head with Labour members. If Streeting united on a joint ticket with Rayner that would also bring together the Blairite and left wings of the party.
Plus given Ed Miliband is the only Labour leader not to win a majority or even get a hung parliament at a general election he is hardly the nirvana of electability for the party
I'm not all that left-wing (never joined the Campaign Group and can't stand rabble-rousers like Scargill), but Angela Rayner doesn't strike me as at all left-wing, and Wes Streeting picks fights with the left to an embarrassing degree. I've decided to stay on in Labour but a Streeting-Rayner ticket would make me rethink.
EdM? Well, at least he stands for something positive, a reasonably coherent energy narrative.
I'm glad you decided to stay, your politics don't seem dissimilar to mine.
I agree that Streeting has such a history of fomenting division that he could never be a unifying force, rather he would likely lead Labour into an existential crisis. By contrast the party membership would accept either Rayner or Miliband as a unifying force and either would have a chance of clawing back some of the support lost to the greens, both members and the wider electorate. Rayner has told Streeting where to go and if a deal is done between leadership candidates the only realistic prospect of a pact is between Miliband and Rayner, which would boost either's chances.
Either of those donkeys would make Starmer look good. At least Streeting can talk and sound as if he is a human.
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Streeting seems like he could host This Morning quite easily, he seems quite a natural on tv rather than a stuffy politician. If it wasn’t for that erroneous tweet about the Downing St parties I don’t think I’d have much bad to say about him
Got him as a small loser though
I've had a look at the timing of that Tweet.
So it was a couple of days before the story broke about Number 10 staffers partying the night before the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral.
The Westminster rumour mill was in overdrive at that moment, both OGH and myself heard independently that there was going to be a new story going to break that in the words of my contact 'Boris Johnson's going to get Gough Whitlam'd by the Queen.'
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Wes Streeting heard the same rumours and it kinda fitted with his timeline, gets diagnosed in March/April 2021.
No, he tweeted the day the news of the Downing St party in May 2020 broke, using the specific date of his surgery to suggest those attending the party would be hungover as he was waiting to be operated on. If the party had been the day before his surgery, it would have been a very effective point. But it was 366 days before. It is madness to suggest he wasn’t referring to the massive breaking news of the day, it couldn’t be clearer
A mistake, it happens, but he should acknowledge it. I’m sure he will if it’s brought up during a leadership campaign
Why should he acknowledge it, it was years ago, what does it matter now?
Who exactly is going to bring it up, during a Labour leadership campaign?
You were overly critical of Boris is not going to be harmful to a Labour leadership campaign.
Politicians are asked all sorts of questions about the veracity of things they’ve previously said or done, look at Rachel Reeves now. She’s getting stories written about chess tournaments from the mid 90s. Farage is being asked about things he said at school in the 70s. So I don’t see why Streeting wouldn’t be asked about an erroneous tweet from 2022
I don’t really care if he becomes Labour leader or not, and I don’t particularly dislike him, I’m just a pedant like many others on here, although some are choosing not to be on this matter!
Farage is being asked about things that suit accusations about him being a racist to date, but the only people who really care are people who already dislike him anyway.
Reeves has faced accusations about sexing up her CV, but the only people who really care are those who dislike her anyway.
Being critical of a Tory PM, even slightly erroneously, is not going to harm any Labour leadership candidate.
I mostly agree, but I think the Farage stuff does cut through a bit. There is plenty of the electorate who think immigration was too high, but aren’t on board with singing Hitler songs.
Will not be over till they stop all illegal entries , ie boats , especially given how they molly coddle them for years and then allow to stay regardless. If they tighten up on visas and don't allow people to bering 30 or 40 extended family in afterwards unless they meet visa rules themselves and kill the boats they are done for and Farge will either be in or have huge say on matters.
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Streeting seems like he could host This Morning quite easily, he seems quite a natural on tv rather than a stuffy politician. If it wasn’t for that erroneous tweet about the Downing St parties I don’t think I’d have much bad to say about him
Got him as a small loser though
I've had a look at the timing of that Tweet.
So it was a couple of days before the story broke about Number 10 staffers partying the night before the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral.
The Westminster rumour mill was in overdrive at that moment, both OGH and myself heard independently that there was going to be a new story going to break that in the words of my contact 'Boris Johnson's going to get Gough Whitlam'd by the Queen.'
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Wes Streeting heard the same rumours and it kinda fitted with his timeline, gets diagnosed in March/April 2021.
No, he tweeted the day the news of the Downing St party in May 2020 broke, using the specific date of his surgery to suggest those attending the party would be hungover as he was waiting to be operated on. If the party had been the day before his surgery, it would have been a very effective point. But it was 366 days before. It is madness to suggest he wasn’t referring to the massive breaking news of the day, it couldn’t be clearer
A mistake, it happens, but he should acknowledge it. I’m sure he will if it’s brought up during a leadership campaign
Why should he acknowledge it, it was years ago, what does it matter now?
Who exactly is going to bring it up, during a Labour leadership campaign?
You were overly critical of Boris is not going to be harmful to a Labour leadership campaign.
Politicians are asked all sorts of questions about the veracity of things they’ve previously said or done, look at Rachel Reeves now. She’s getting stories written about chess tournaments from the mid 90s. Farage is being asked about things he said at school in the 70s. So I don’t see why Streeting wouldn’t be asked about an erroneous tweet from 2022
I don’t really care if he becomes Labour leader or not, and I don’t particularly dislike him, I’m just a pedant like many others on here, although some are choosing not to be on this matter!
Farage is being asked about things that suit accusations about him being a racist to date, but the only people who really care are people who already dislike him anyway.
Reeves has faced accusations about sexing up her CV, but the only people who really care are those who dislike her anyway.
Being critical of a Tory PM, even slightly erroneously, is not going to harm any Labour leadership candidate.
I mostly agree, but I think the Farage stuff does cut through a bit. There is plenty of the electorate who think immigration was too high, but aren’t on board with singing Hitler songs.
Done as a teenager forty years ago could be overlooked, perhaps. The bigger flaw is the repeated denial in the face of multiple witnesses and lashing out at the media in response.
What would such a leader do with the Post Office Scandal or Hillsborough?
slightly different cirumstances , bit liek comparing someone of 13 pinching a sweetie out of a bag to an adult robbing a bank. Regrettable or not that was de rigeur 40-50 years ago. Are we supposed to go back to Roman times and check the outcomes next. FFS in Scotland now they avoid jailing people under 25 as their brains are not supposed to be fully developed before that.
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Streeting seems like he could host This Morning quite easily, he seems quite a natural on tv rather than a stuffy politician. If it wasn’t for that erroneous tweet about the Downing St parties I don’t think I’d have much bad to say about him
Got him as a small loser though
I've had a look at the timing of that Tweet.
So it was a couple of days before the story broke about Number 10 staffers partying the night before the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral.
The Westminster rumour mill was in overdrive at that moment, both OGH and myself heard independently that there was going to be a new story going to break that in the words of my contact 'Boris Johnson's going to get Gough Whitlam'd by the Queen.'
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Wes Streeting heard the same rumours and it kinda fitted with his timeline, gets diagnosed in March/April 2021.
No, he tweeted the day the news of the Downing St party in May 2020 broke, using the specific date of his surgery to suggest those attending the party would be hungover as he was waiting to be operated on. If the party had been the day before his surgery, it would have been a very effective point. But it was 366 days before. It is madness to suggest he wasn’t referring to the massive breaking news of the day, it couldn’t be clearer
A mistake, it happens, but he should acknowledge it. I’m sure he will if it’s brought up during a leadership campaign
Why should he acknowledge it, it was years ago, what does it matter now?
Who exactly is going to bring it up, during a Labour leadership campaign?
You were overly critical of Boris is not going to be harmful to a Labour leadership campaign.
Politicians are asked all sorts of questions about the veracity of things they’ve previously said or done, look at Rachel Reeves now. She’s getting stories written about chess tournaments from the mid 90s. Farage is being asked about things he said at school in the 70s. So I don’t see why Streeting wouldn’t be asked about an erroneous tweet from 2022
I don’t really care if he becomes Labour leader or not, and I don’t particularly dislike him, I’m just a pedant like many others on here, although some are choosing not to be on this matter!
Farage is being asked about things that suit accusations about him being a racist to date, but the only people who really care are people who already dislike him anyway.
Reeves has faced accusations about sexing up her CV, but the only people who really care are those who dislike her anyway.
Being critical of a Tory PM, even slightly erroneously, is not going to harm any Labour leadership candidate.
I mostly agree, but I think the Farage stuff does cut through a bit. There is plenty of the electorate who think immigration was too high, but aren’t on board with singing Hitler songs.
Done as a teenager forty years ago could be overlooked, perhaps. The bigger flaw is the repeated denial in the face of multiple witnesses and lashing out at the media in response.
What would such a leader do with the Post Office Scandal or Hillsborough?
slightly different cirumstances , bit liek comparing someone of 13 pinching a sweetie out of a bag to an adult robbing a bank. Regrettable or not that was de rigeur 40-50 years ago. Are we supposed to go back to Roman times and check the outcomes next. FFS in Scotland now they avoid jailing people under 25 as their brains are not supposed to be fully developed before that.
Was it really? Hissing at Jews?
When I was at school "gay" was a common insult - but never at someone who was actually gay. Happily any use of it has ended (or so I'm told by teacher friends).
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Streeting seems like he could host This Morning quite easily, he seems quite a natural on tv rather than a stuffy politician. If it wasn’t for that erroneous tweet about the Downing St parties I don’t think I’d have much bad to say about him
Got him as a small loser though
I've had a look at the timing of that Tweet.
So it was a couple of days before the story broke about Number 10 staffers partying the night before the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral.
The Westminster rumour mill was in overdrive at that moment, both OGH and myself heard independently that there was going to be a new story going to break that in the words of my contact 'Boris Johnson's going to get Gough Whitlam'd by the Queen.'
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Wes Streeting heard the same rumours and it kinda fitted with his timeline, gets diagnosed in March/April 2021.
No, he tweeted the day the news of the Downing St party in May 2020 broke, using the specific date of his surgery to suggest those attending the party would be hungover as he was waiting to be operated on. If the party had been the day before his surgery, it would have been a very effective point. But it was 366 days before. It is madness to suggest he wasn’t referring to the massive breaking news of the day, it couldn’t be clearer
A mistake, it happens, but he should acknowledge it. I’m sure he will if it’s brought up during a leadership campaign
Why should he acknowledge it, it was years ago, what does it matter now?
Who exactly is going to bring it up, during a Labour leadership campaign?
You were overly critical of Boris is not going to be harmful to a Labour leadership campaign.
Politicians are asked all sorts of questions about the veracity of things they’ve previously said or done, look at Rachel Reeves now. She’s getting stories written about chess tournaments from the mid 90s. Farage is being asked about things he said at school in the 70s. So I don’t see why Streeting wouldn’t be asked about an erroneous tweet from 2022
I don’t really care if he becomes Labour leader or not, and I don’t particularly dislike him, I’m just a pedant like many others on here, although some are choosing not to be on this matter!
Farage is being asked about things that suit accusations about him being a racist to date, but the only people who really care are people who already dislike him anyway.
Reeves has faced accusations about sexing up her CV, but the only people who really care are those who dislike her anyway.
Being critical of a Tory PM, even slightly erroneously, is not going to harm any Labour leadership candidate.
I mostly agree, but I think the Farage stuff does cut through a bit. There is plenty of the electorate who think immigration was too high, but aren’t on board with singing Hitler songs.
And that plenty would have disliked Farage for years.
Sure. But there are two important caveats.
First is that "I'm not a racist, but (say something racist)" factor. People are often happy for awful things to happen, as long as they aren't said out loud. Farage has been a master of that for decades as an adult, but tenny Nigel was more careless.
The sensible thing for him to do would be to say "I was a dick as a teenager, I regret saying those things." But he can't. Partly because he has an undeserved reputation for plain speaking, partly because he needs the votes of racists to get anywhere, but mostly because he's a vain old goat who can't admit he was wrong.
If you want to make a bolshy teenager shrivel, get their parents in and ask them to repeat what they said to that child they were bullying.
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Streeting seems like he could host This Morning quite easily, he seems quite a natural on tv rather than a stuffy politician. If it wasn’t for that erroneous tweet about the Downing St parties I don’t think I’d have much bad to say about him
Got him as a small loser though
I've had a look at the timing of that Tweet.
So it was a couple of days before the story broke about Number 10 staffers partying the night before the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral.
The Westminster rumour mill was in overdrive at that moment, both OGH and myself heard independently that there was going to be a new story going to break that in the words of my contact 'Boris Johnson's going to get Gough Whitlam'd by the Queen.'
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Wes Streeting heard the same rumours and it kinda fitted with his timeline, gets diagnosed in March/April 2021.
No, he tweeted the day the news of the Downing St party in May 2020 broke, using the specific date of his surgery to suggest those attending the party would be hungover as he was waiting to be operated on. If the party had been the day before his surgery, it would have been a very effective point. But it was 366 days before. It is madness to suggest he wasn’t referring to the massive breaking news of the day, it couldn’t be clearer
A mistake, it happens, but he should acknowledge it. I’m sure he will if it’s brought up during a leadership campaign
Why should he acknowledge it, it was years ago, what does it matter now?
Who exactly is going to bring it up, during a Labour leadership campaign?
You were overly critical of Boris is not going to be harmful to a Labour leadership campaign.
Politicians are asked all sorts of questions about the veracity of things they’ve previously said or done, look at Rachel Reeves now. She’s getting stories written about chess tournaments from the mid 90s. Farage is being asked about things he said at school in the 70s. So I don’t see why Streeting wouldn’t be asked about an erroneous tweet from 2022
I don’t really care if he becomes Labour leader or not, and I don’t particularly dislike him, I’m just a pedant like many others on here, although some are choosing not to be on this matter!
Farage is being asked about things that suit accusations about him being a racist to date, but the only people who really care are people who already dislike him anyway.
Reeves has faced accusations about sexing up her CV, but the only people who really care are those who dislike her anyway.
Being critical of a Tory PM, even slightly erroneously, is not going to harm any Labour leadership candidate.
I mostly agree, but I think the Farage stuff does cut through a bit. There is plenty of the electorate who think immigration was too high, but aren’t on board with singing Hitler songs.
Done as a teenager forty years ago could be overlooked, perhaps. The bigger flaw is the repeated denial in the face of multiple witnesses and lashing out at the media in response.
What would such a leader do with the Post Office Scandal or Hillsborough?
slightly different cirumstances , bit liek comparing someone of 13 pinching a sweetie out of a bag to an adult robbing a bank. Regrettable or not that was de rigeur 40-50 years ago. Are we supposed to go back to Roman times and check the outcomes next. FFS in Scotland now they avoid jailing people under 25 as their brains are not supposed to be fully developed before that.
Was it really? Hissing at Jews?
When I was at school "gay" was a common insult - but never at someone who was actually gay. Happily any use of it has ended (or so I'm told by teacher friends).
When I was a boy life was tough at school if you had anything different, physically , mentally , colour ( though non whites were rarer than hens teeth in rural ayrshire , a handful of chinese was about it). It was just considered normal then like teachers giving you 6 of the belt or cuffing you round the ear , etc. Times change but looking back 40 or 50 years is for morons, plenty over last 20 years as an adult to not like about Farage if you are that way inclined but furore over what a 13 year old did in a completely different world is pathetic. I can see the complainers wanting their revenge but for anybody else , give your head a good wobble (not aimed at you personally).
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Streeting seems like he could host This Morning quite easily, he seems quite a natural on tv rather than a stuffy politician. If it wasn’t for that erroneous tweet about the Downing St parties I don’t think I’d have much bad to say about him
Got him as a small loser though
I've had a look at the timing of that Tweet.
So it was a couple of days before the story broke about Number 10 staffers partying the night before the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral.
The Westminster rumour mill was in overdrive at that moment, both OGH and myself heard independently that there was going to be a new story going to break that in the words of my contact 'Boris Johnson's going to get Gough Whitlam'd by the Queen.'
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Wes Streeting heard the same rumours and it kinda fitted with his timeline, gets diagnosed in March/April 2021.
No, he tweeted the day the news of the Downing St party in May 2020 broke, using the specific date of his surgery to suggest those attending the party would be hungover as he was waiting to be operated on. If the party had been the day before his surgery, it would have been a very effective point. But it was 366 days before. It is madness to suggest he wasn’t referring to the massive breaking news of the day, it couldn’t be clearer
A mistake, it happens, but he should acknowledge it. I’m sure he will if it’s brought up during a leadership campaign
Why should he acknowledge it, it was years ago, what does it matter now?
Who exactly is going to bring it up, during a Labour leadership campaign?
You were overly critical of Boris is not going to be harmful to a Labour leadership campaign.
Politicians are asked all sorts of questions about the veracity of things they’ve previously said or done, look at Rachel Reeves now. She’s getting stories written about chess tournaments from the mid 90s. Farage is being asked about things he said at school in the 70s. So I don’t see why Streeting wouldn’t be asked about an erroneous tweet from 2022
I don’t really care if he becomes Labour leader or not, and I don’t particularly dislike him, I’m just a pedant like many others on here, although some are choosing not to be on this matter!
Farage is being asked about things that suit accusations about him being a racist to date, but the only people who really care are people who already dislike him anyway.
Reeves has faced accusations about sexing up her CV, but the only people who really care are those who dislike her anyway.
Being critical of a Tory PM, even slightly erroneously, is not going to harm any Labour leadership candidate.
I mostly agree, but I think the Farage stuff does cut through a bit. There is plenty of the electorate who think immigration was too high, but aren’t on board with singing Hitler songs.
Done as a teenager forty years ago could be overlooked, perhaps. The bigger flaw is the repeated denial in the face of multiple witnesses and lashing out at the media in response.
What would such a leader do with the Post Office Scandal or Hillsborough?
slightly different cirumstances , bit liek comparing someone of 13 pinching a sweetie out of a bag to an adult robbing a bank. Regrettable or not that was de rigeur 40-50 years ago. Are we supposed to go back to Roman times and check the outcomes next. FFS in Scotland now they avoid jailing people under 25 as their brains are not supposed to be fully developed before that.
Was it really? Hissing at Jews?
When I was at school "gay" was a common insult - but never at someone who was actually gay. Happily any use of it has ended (or so I'm told by teacher friends).
Don't they know there are starving children in Africa? (School dinners joke!)
Predictably, police have closed it while they sniff around, thus, as is there normal practice, inconveniencing tourists and greatly magnifying the impact of the initial publicity stunt.
i wonder if they got the custard from the store that sells aircraft disabling paint
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Maybe I am projecting, but don't other Labour members also want someone who can appeal to the electorate as a whole and win an election? I just think Wes is so far ahead of the other candidates as a political communicator that it will become obvious that he is the best choice.
I think we need to pick a shortllist who we're basically OK with before considering electoral appeal, which is elusive and often transitory, and leads to embarrassment even when it works in electoral terms. Essentially a Labour leader needs to both command at least broad acceptance in the party and in the public, and there's no point in choosing a leader who goes out of his way to pick fights with much of the membership. That's why I would struggle to accept Streeting as leader, whether he won an election or not, whereas I'd accept a moderate centrist even if I often disagreed with them. My basic requirement is a broadly acceptable medium-term strategy, and my main criticism of Starmer, who seems pleasant enough, is that he doesn't seem to have a medium-term strategy at all, evem one I'd personally disagree with.
Doesn't that just make you part of Labour's problems ? (TBF, I note you are anyway considering joining a different party.)
Perhaps (part of the problems), though I've decided against changing party for the forseeable future. I think however that it's generally true that party leaders need both acceptance by the membership and acceptance by the electorate. It doesn't need to be wild enthusiasm by either, but if either is turned off then the project isn't going to work. Nor should it - if the electorate doesn't like you, basic democracy requires that you don't win, and if the membership doesn't like you, you're not suited to lead it. I think that British political problems are partly caused by over-emphasis on winning at all costs, with actual ambitions to achieve anything in particular seen as secondary. You can't achieve anything unless you win, but you shouldn't even stand if you don't know what you're trying to achieve.
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Streeting seems like he could host This Morning quite easily, he seems quite a natural on tv rather than a stuffy politician. If it wasn’t for that erroneous tweet about the Downing St parties I don’t think I’d have much bad to say about him
Got him as a small loser though
I've had a look at the timing of that Tweet.
So it was a couple of days before the story broke about Number 10 staffers partying the night before the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral.
The Westminster rumour mill was in overdrive at that moment, both OGH and myself heard independently that there was going to be a new story going to break that in the words of my contact 'Boris Johnson's going to get Gough Whitlam'd by the Queen.'
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Wes Streeting heard the same rumours and it kinda fitted with his timeline, gets diagnosed in March/April 2021.
No, he tweeted the day the news of the Downing St party in May 2020 broke, using the specific date of his surgery to suggest those attending the party would be hungover as he was waiting to be operated on. If the party had been the day before his surgery, it would have been a very effective point. But it was 366 days before. It is madness to suggest he wasn’t referring to the massive breaking news of the day, it couldn’t be clearer
A mistake, it happens, but he should acknowledge it. I’m sure he will if it’s brought up during a leadership campaign
Why should he acknowledge it, it was years ago, what does it matter now?
Who exactly is going to bring it up, during a Labour leadership campaign?
You were overly critical of Boris is not going to be harmful to a Labour leadership campaign.
Politicians are asked all sorts of questions about the veracity of things they’ve previously said or done, look at Rachel Reeves now. She’s getting stories written about chess tournaments from the mid 90s. Farage is being asked about things he said at school in the 70s. So I don’t see why Streeting wouldn’t be asked about an erroneous tweet from 2022
I don’t really care if he becomes Labour leader or not, and I don’t particularly dislike him, I’m just a pedant like many others on here, although some are choosing not to be on this matter!
Farage is being asked about things that suit accusations about him being a racist to date, but the only people who really care are people who already dislike him anyway.
Reeves has faced accusations about sexing up her CV, but the only people who really care are those who dislike her anyway.
Being critical of a Tory PM, even slightly erroneously, is not going to harm any Labour leadership candidate.
I mostly agree, but I think the Farage stuff does cut through a bit. There is plenty of the electorate who think immigration was too high, but aren’t on board with singing Hitler songs.
Done as a teenager forty years ago could be overlooked, perhaps. The bigger flaw is the repeated denial in the face of multiple witnesses and lashing out at the media in response.
What would such a leader do with the Post Office Scandal or Hillsborough?
slightly different cirumstances , bit liek comparing someone of 13 pinching a sweetie out of a bag to an adult robbing a bank. Regrettable or not that was de rigeur 40-50 years ago. Are we supposed to go back to Roman times and check the outcomes next. FFS in Scotland now they avoid jailing people under 25 as their brains are not supposed to be fully developed before that.
Was it really? Hissing at Jews?
When I was at school "gay" was a common insult - but never at someone who was actually gay. Happily any use of it has ended (or so I'm told by teacher friends).
My experience of school in the eighties was that we sang lots of football songs on the bus home, some of them pretty offensive as we lived in a West Ham area at the height of football hooliganism, but none of my friends bullied other kids or taunted them/singled them out personally. That said, there weren’t many nonwhite/non nominally Christian kids there. The only two black and Asian kids I can remember knocked about with us anyway.
But my point is there is a big difference between genuine banter, which is kids normally just repeating stuff out loud they’ve probably heard from adults, and it seems what Farage is claiming he did, and cruelly singling out/picking on kids individually because of race or religion, which he is accused of. I’d say everyone I know has done the former and none the latter, they’re very different things
Ed Miliband is popular with Labour members, though a September Yougov poll had Streeting narrowly beating Miliband head to head with Labour members. If Streeting united on a joint ticket with Rayner that would also bring together the Blairite and left wings of the party.
Plus given Ed Miliband is the only Labour leader not to win a majority or even get a hung parliament at a general election he is hardly the nirvana of electability for the party
Good morning everyone. IIRC, although Ed M didn’t manage an overall majority he did gain seats (?seat) . It was the Conservative’s successful attack on their coalition partners which resulted in the 2015 Cameron government.
And neither Kinnock or Smith won an election.
Kinnock in 1992 won about 40 more Labour MPs than Ed Miliband in 2015. Smith had he lived would have won the 1997 general election
Having come back to this discussion, Ed’s problem, as was pointed out upthread, was the sweeping gains by the SNP.
And gains by Nationalists are going to be the joker in the pack are, I suspect, for the next two or three elections.
Don't they know there are starving children in Africa? (School dinners joke!)
Predictably, police have closed it while they sniff around, thus, as is there normal practice, inconveniencing tourists and greatly magnifying the impact of the initial publicity stunt.
i wonder if they got the custard from the store that sells aircraft disabling paint
The dickheads involved in this stunt and the previous one have mostly all been identified and shock horror have previously been arrested for involvement with Palestine Action, Youth Demand, Just Stop Oil, etc. Its the same 50-100 people time and time again e.g. today Zahra Ali involved,
Don't they know there are starving children in Africa? (School dinners joke!)
Predictably, police have closed it while they sniff around, thus, as is there normal practice, inconveniencing tourists and greatly magnifying the impact of the initial publicity stunt.
i wonder if they got the custard from the store that sells aircraft disabling paint
"Democracy has crumbled", one protester shouted.
Can I just check that ydoethur has been posting this morning?
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Streeting seems like he could host This Morning quite easily, he seems quite a natural on tv rather than a stuffy politician. If it wasn’t for that erroneous tweet about the Downing St parties I don’t think I’d have much bad to say about him
Got him as a small loser though
I've had a look at the timing of that Tweet.
So it was a couple of days before the story broke about Number 10 staffers partying the night before the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral.
The Westminster rumour mill was in overdrive at that moment, both OGH and myself heard independently that there was going to be a new story going to break that in the words of my contact 'Boris Johnson's going to get Gough Whitlam'd by the Queen.'
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Wes Streeting heard the same rumours and it kinda fitted with his timeline, gets diagnosed in March/April 2021.
No, he tweeted the day the news of the Downing St party in May 2020 broke, using the specific date of his surgery to suggest those attending the party would be hungover as he was waiting to be operated on. If the party had been the day before his surgery, it would have been a very effective point. But it was 366 days before. It is madness to suggest he wasn’t referring to the massive breaking news of the day, it couldn’t be clearer
A mistake, it happens, but he should acknowledge it. I’m sure he will if it’s brought up during a leadership campaign
Why should he acknowledge it, it was years ago, what does it matter now?
Who exactly is going to bring it up, during a Labour leadership campaign?
You were overly critical of Boris is not going to be harmful to a Labour leadership campaign.
Politicians are asked all sorts of questions about the veracity of things they’ve previously said or done, look at Rachel Reeves now. She’s getting stories written about chess tournaments from the mid 90s. Farage is being asked about things he said at school in the 70s. So I don’t see why Streeting wouldn’t be asked about an erroneous tweet from 2022
I don’t really care if he becomes Labour leader or not, and I don’t particularly dislike him, I’m just a pedant like many others on here, although some are choosing not to be on this matter!
Farage is being asked about things that suit accusations about him being a racist to date, but the only people who really care are people who already dislike him anyway.
Reeves has faced accusations about sexing up her CV, but the only people who really care are those who dislike her anyway.
Being critical of a Tory PM, even slightly erroneously, is not going to harm any Labour leadership candidate.
I mostly agree, but I think the Farage stuff does cut through a bit. There is plenty of the electorate who think immigration was too high, but aren’t on board with singing Hitler songs.
Done as a teenager forty years ago could be overlooked, perhaps. The bigger flaw is the repeated denial in the face of multiple witnesses and lashing out at the media in response.
What would such a leader do with the Post Office Scandal or Hillsborough?
slightly different cirumstances , bit liek comparing someone of 13 pinching a sweetie out of a bag to an adult robbing a bank. Regrettable or not that was de rigeur 40-50 years ago. Are we supposed to go back to Roman times and check the outcomes next. FFS in Scotland now they avoid jailing people under 25 as their brains are not supposed to be fully developed before that.
Was it really? Hissing at Jews?
When I was at school "gay" was a common insult - but never at someone who was actually gay. Happily any use of it has ended (or so I'm told by teacher friends).
My experience of school in the eighties was that we sang lots of football songs on the bus home, some of them pretty offensive as we lived in a West Ham area at the height of football hooliganism, but none of my friends bullied other kids or taunted them/singled them out personally. That said, there weren’t many nonwhite/non nominally Christian kids there. The only two black and Asian kids I can remember knocked about with us anyway.
But my point is there is a big difference between genuine banter, which is kids normally just repeating stuff out loud they’ve probably heard from adults, and it seems what Farage is claiming he did, and cruelly singling out/picking on kids individually because of race or religion, which he is accused of. I’d say everyone I know has done the former and none the latter, they’re very different things
Spot on. Similar to my experiences at secondary school in the 70s.
If the accusations against Farage's school behaviour are true, his behaviour went way beyond teenage 'banter'.
Ed Miliband is popular with Labour members, though a September Yougov poll had Streeting narrowly beating Miliband head to head with Labour members. If Streeting united on a joint ticket with Rayner that would also bring together the Blairite and left wings of the party.
Plus given Ed Miliband is the only Labour leader not to win a majority or even get a hung parliament at a general election he is hardly the nirvana of electability for the party
I'm not all that left-wing (never joined the Campaign Group and can't stand rabble-rousers like Scargill), but Angela Rayner doesn't strike me as at all left-wing, and Wes Streeting picks fights with the left to an embarrassing degree. I've decided to stay on in Labour but a Streeting-Rayner ticket would make me rethink.
EdM? Well, at least he stands for something positive, a reasonably coherent energy narrative.
I'm glad you decided to stay, your politics don't seem dissimilar to mine.
I agree that Streeting has such a history of fomenting division that he could never be a unifying force, rather he would likely lead Labour into an existential crisis. By contrast the party membership would accept either Rayner or Miliband as a unifying force and either would have a chance of clawing back some of the support lost to the greens, both members and the wider electorate. Rayner has told Streeting where to go and if a deal is done between leadership candidates the only realistic prospect of a pact is between Miliband and Rayner, which would boost either's chances.
What are your thoughts on Mahmood?
That poll is very much out of line with the results of the regular Survation poll of Labour members which shows that Mahmood's support has plummeted and is in the same ball park as Reeves and Starmer. So a no hoper.
Personally I think she has the right instincts but that her proposals on migration and citizenship have gone too far.
If we are to avoid a PM Farage or perhaps worse a PM Jenrick, then Mahmood and Streeting are the ones that need to influence the government the most. I get why they are not popular with the members but just as the Conservative were wrong to sideline Rory the ex Tory who had cross over appeal I suspect Labour will do similar post Starmer.
That’s the irony of politics on both left and right. Party members and activists are almost always wrong, whether it comes to policy or personality, yet we would clearly live in a worse world if our politicians weren’t subject to the accountability that being part of a membership organisation delivers.
Ed Miliband is popular with Labour members, though a September Yougov poll had Streeting narrowly beating Miliband head to head with Labour members. If Streeting united on a joint ticket with Rayner that would also bring together the Blairite and left wings of the party.
Plus given Ed Miliband is the only Labour leader not to win a majority or even get a hung parliament at a general election he is hardly the nirvana of electability for the party
I'm not all that left-wing (never joined the Campaign Group and can't stand rabble-rousers like Scargill), but Angela Rayner doesn't strike me as at all left-wing, and Wes Streeting picks fights with the left to an embarrassing degree. I've decided to stay on in Labour but a Streeting-Rayner ticket would make me rethink.
EdM? Well, at least he stands for something positive, a reasonably coherent energy narrative.
A coherent narrative which gave the Tories their first overall majority general election win for 23 years in 2015. Even Corbyn twice got a higher Labour voteshare than Ed Miliband did.
If Ed Miliband became Labour leader again only one person would be more delighted than you...Kemi Badenoch
Yes, why pick a previous loser..💩 It's like a football manager who relegated the team being asked back after his successor at least got a top 4 place..🧐
Shouldn’t they want someone with relevant experience for the job for which they are applying?
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Streeting seems like he could host This Morning quite easily, he seems quite a natural on tv rather than a stuffy politician. If it wasn’t for that erroneous tweet about the Downing St parties I don’t think I’d have much bad to say about him
Got him as a small loser though
I've had a look at the timing of that Tweet.
So it was a couple of days before the story broke about Number 10 staffers partying the night before the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral.
The Westminster rumour mill was in overdrive at that moment, both OGH and myself heard independently that there was going to be a new story going to break that in the words of my contact 'Boris Johnson's going to get Gough Whitlam'd by the Queen.'
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Wes Streeting heard the same rumours and it kinda fitted with his timeline, gets diagnosed in March/April 2021.
No, he tweeted the day the news of the Downing St party in May 2020 broke, using the specific date of his surgery to suggest those attending the party would be hungover as he was waiting to be operated on. If the party had been the day before his surgery, it would have been a very effective point. But it was 366 days before. It is madness to suggest he wasn’t referring to the massive breaking news of the day, it couldn’t be clearer
A mistake, it happens, but he should acknowledge it. I’m sure he will if it’s brought up during a leadership campaign
Why should he acknowledge it, it was years ago, what does it matter now?
Who exactly is going to bring it up, during a Labour leadership campaign?
You were overly critical of Boris is not going to be harmful to a Labour leadership campaign.
Politicians are asked all sorts of questions about the veracity of things they’ve previously said or done, look at Rachel Reeves now. She’s getting stories written about chess tournaments from the mid 90s. Farage is being asked about things he said at school in the 70s. So I don’t see why Streeting wouldn’t be asked about an erroneous tweet from 2022
I don’t really care if he becomes Labour leader or not, and I don’t particularly dislike him, I’m just a pedant like many others on here, although some are choosing not to be on this matter!
Farage is being asked about things that suit accusations about him being a racist to date, but the only people who really care are people who already dislike him anyway.
Reeves has faced accusations about sexing up her CV, but the only people who really care are those who dislike her anyway.
Being critical of a Tory PM, even slightly erroneously, is not going to harm any Labour leadership candidate.
I mostly agree, but I think the Farage stuff does cut through a bit. There is plenty of the electorate who think immigration was too high, but aren’t on board with singing Hitler songs.
Done as a teenager forty years ago could be overlooked, perhaps. The bigger flaw is the repeated denial in the face of multiple witnesses and lashing out at the media in response.
What would such a leader do with the Post Office Scandal or Hillsborough?
slightly different cirumstances , bit liek comparing someone of 13 pinching a sweetie out of a bag to an adult robbing a bank. Regrettable or not that was de rigeur 40-50 years ago. Are we supposed to go back to Roman times and check the outcomes next. FFS in Scotland now they avoid jailing people under 25 as their brains are not supposed to be fully developed before that.
Was it really? Hissing at Jews?
When I was at school "gay" was a common insult - but never at someone who was actually gay. Happily any use of it has ended (or so I'm told by teacher friends).
My experience of school in the eighties was that we sang lots of football songs on the bus home, some of them pretty offensive as we lived in a West Ham area at the height of football hooliganism, but none of my friends bullied other kids or taunted them/singled them out personally. That said, there weren’t many nonwhite/non nominally Christian kids there. The only two black and Asian kids I can remember knocked about with us anyway.
But my point is there is a big difference between genuine banter, which is kids normally just repeating stuff out loud they’ve probably heard from adults, and it seems what Farage is claiming he did, and cruelly singling out/picking on kids individually because of race or religion, which he is accused of. I’d say everyone I know has done the former and none the latter, they’re very different things
Agree with that. If Farage is guilty of the former, as many are, I think he'd best fess up, assert that it was never acceptable in the first place, express regret.
He's usually quite good at that kind of sorrowful reflection - indeed he frames a lot of his immigration rhetoric in that way. Not sure why he feels incapable in this instance, which makes me suspect he'd have to apologise for a lot more than the kind of playground chat we are more familiar with. No one likes a bully.
The most common betting mistake is to back what you think *should* happen and not consider what the people who will actually take the decision might be thinking.
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Streeting seems like he could host This Morning quite easily, he seems quite a natural on tv rather than a stuffy politician. If it wasn’t for that erroneous tweet about the Downing St parties I don’t think I’d have much bad to say about him
Got him as a small loser though
I've had a look at the timing of that Tweet.
So it was a couple of days before the story broke about Number 10 staffers partying the night before the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral.
The Westminster rumour mill was in overdrive at that moment, both OGH and myself heard independently that there was going to be a new story going to break that in the words of my contact 'Boris Johnson's going to get Gough Whitlam'd by the Queen.'
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Wes Streeting heard the same rumours and it kinda fitted with his timeline, gets diagnosed in March/April 2021.
No, he tweeted the day the news of the Downing St party in May 2020 broke, using the specific date of his surgery to suggest those attending the party would be hungover as he was waiting to be operated on. If the party had been the day before his surgery, it would have been a very effective point. But it was 366 days before. It is madness to suggest he wasn’t referring to the massive breaking news of the day, it couldn’t be clearer
A mistake, it happens, but he should acknowledge it. I’m sure he will if it’s brought up during a leadership campaign
Why should he acknowledge it, it was years ago, what does it matter now?
Who exactly is going to bring it up, during a Labour leadership campaign?
You were overly critical of Boris is not going to be harmful to a Labour leadership campaign.
Politicians are asked all sorts of questions about the veracity of things they’ve previously said or done, look at Rachel Reeves now. She’s getting stories written about chess tournaments from the mid 90s. Farage is being asked about things he said at school in the 70s. So I don’t see why Streeting wouldn’t be asked about an erroneous tweet from 2022
I don’t really care if he becomes Labour leader or not, and I don’t particularly dislike him, I’m just a pedant like many others on here, although some are choosing not to be on this matter!
Farage is being asked about things that suit accusations about him being a racist to date, but the only people who really care are people who already dislike him anyway.
Reeves has faced accusations about sexing up her CV, but the only people who really care are those who dislike her anyway.
Being critical of a Tory PM, even slightly erroneously, is not going to harm any Labour leadership candidate.
I mostly agree, but I think the Farage stuff does cut through a bit. There is plenty of the electorate who think immigration was too high, but aren’t on board with singing Hitler songs.
Done as a teenager forty years ago could be overlooked, perhaps. The bigger flaw is the repeated denial in the face of multiple witnesses and lashing out at the media in response.
What would such a leader do with the Post Office Scandal or Hillsborough?
slightly different cirumstances , bit liek comparing someone of 13 pinching a sweetie out of a bag to an adult robbing a bank. Regrettable or not that was de rigeur 40-50 years ago. Are we supposed to go back to Roman times and check the outcomes next. FFS in Scotland now they avoid jailing people under 25 as their brains are not supposed to be fully developed before that.
Was it really? Hissing at Jews?
When I was at school "gay" was a common insult - but never at someone who was actually gay. Happily any use of it has ended (or so I'm told by teacher friends).
My experience of school in the eighties was that we sang lots of football songs on the bus home, some of them pretty offensive as we lived in a West Ham area at the height of football hooliganism, but none of my friends bullied other kids or taunted them/singled them out personally. That said, there weren’t many nonwhite/non nominally Christian kids there. The only two black and Asian kids I can remember knocked about with us anyway.
But my point is there is a big difference between genuine banter, which is kids normally just repeating stuff out loud they’ve probably heard from adults, and it seems what Farage is claiming he did, and cruelly singling out/picking on kids individually because of race or religion, which he is accused of. I’d say everyone I know has done the former and none the latter, they’re very different things
Spot on. Similar to my experiences at secondary school in the 70s.
If the accusations against Farage's school behaviour are true, he was a deeply nasty teenager.
I work with several deeply nasty teenagers. And in most cases, I help them to grow out of being deeply nasty. That is what I get paid for, and it isn't easy but it can be done.
What bothers me is the overwhelming evidence that Farage has actually not changed since being a deeply nasty teenager. *That* is why this story is a problem.
Just as Corbyn's past association with antisemites and dodgy Russophiles would not have been a problem if we didn't think he still privately held the views he'd espoused then.
Don't they know there are starving children in Africa? (School dinners joke!)
Predictably, police have closed it while they sniff around, thus, as is there normal practice, inconveniencing tourists and greatly magnifying the impact of the initial publicity stunt.
i wonder if they got the custard from the store that sells aircraft disabling paint
"Democracy has crumbled", one protester shouted.
Can I just check that ydoethur has been posting this morning?
I'll give the Liz Truss show 7/10. I thought Matt Goodwin was a good interview choice, and the others were OK. Liz Truss isn't a top draw interviewer because she's awkward - but that may improve. What was interesting is that she tried to tease real answers from her interviewees - criticising them for using phrases like 'We need to have a national conversation'. She wasn't doing it to trap them - I think she really wants to use these sessions to formulate radical policies.
Miliband, Starmer at least won a general election.
The Tories lost it more than Starmer won it.
Yes and no. After Corbyn’s putative revolution, Labour needed both a safe pair of hands and a safe policy prospectus (hence why they are now so boxed in financially), in order to reassure those desperate to see the back of the incompetent corrupt Tories that they could be trusted with power. Even so, they won with an extraordinarily low share of the vote. Had their leader or policy offering been *bolder*, they might not have won at all?
Don't they know there are starving children in Africa? (School dinners joke!)
Predictably, police have closed it while they sniff around, thus, as is there normal practice, inconveniencing tourists and greatly magnifying the impact of the initial publicity stunt.
i wonder if they got the custard from the store that sells aircraft disabling paint
Probably went to Waitrose and asked if there was anything in the shop thicker than they were.
My recent trip to Brussels for the @NATO Ministerial meeting left me with one overriding impression: the US has long failed to address the glaring inconsistency between its relations with NATO and the EU. These are almost all the same countries in both organizations. When these countries wear their NATO hats, they insist that Transatlantic cooperation is the cornerstone of our mutual security. But when these countries wear their EU hats, they pursue all sorts of agendas that are often utterly adverse to US interests and security—including censorship, economic suicide/climate fanaticism, open borders, disdain for national sovereignty/promotion of multilateral governance and taxation, support for Communist Cuba, etc etc. This inconsistency cannot continue. Either the great nations of Europe are our partners in protecting the Western civilization that we inherited from them or they are not. But we cannot pretend that we are partners while those nations allow the EU’s unelected, undemocratic, and unrepresentative bureaucracy in Brussels to pursue policies of civilizational suicide.
I think it will be Wes. He is just the strongest candidate and I think will win over the membership when he goes up against the rest of the field. I don't think it makes sense to choose someone like Ed Miliband who has already lost an election. The only worry with Wes is over his own seat, but if he can turn Labour's fortunes around then he should be able to save his own seat in the process.
He is probably the one who could best sell a Labour message to the wider electorate. But to members won't it be easy for a rival candidate to pitch to his left without going full Corbynite?
Maybe I am projecting, but don't other Labour members also want someone who can appeal to the electorate as a whole and win an election? I just think Wes is so far ahead of the other candidates as a political communicator that it will become obvious that he is the best choice.
I think we need to pick a shortllist who we're basically OK with before considering electoral appeal, which is elusive and often transitory, and leads to embarrassment even when it works in electoral terms. Essentially a Labour leader needs to both command at least broad acceptance in the party and in the public, and there's no point in choosing a leader who goes out of his way to pick fights with much of the membership. That's why I would struggle to accept Streeting as leader, whether he won an election or not, whereas I'd accept a moderate centrist even if I often disagreed with them. My basic requirement is a broadly acceptable medium-term strategy, and my main criticism of Starmer, who seems pleasant enough, is that he doesn't seem to have a medium-term strategy at all, evem one I'd personally disagree with.
Doesn't that just make you part of Labour's problems ? (TBF, I note you are anyway considering joining a different party.)
Perhaps (part of the problems), though I've decided against changing party for the forseeable future. I think however that it's generally true that party leaders need both acceptance by the membership and acceptance by the electorate. It doesn't need to be wild enthusiasm by either, but if either is turned off then the project isn't going to work. Nor should it - if the electorate doesn't like you, basic democracy requires that you don't win, and if the membership doesn't like you, you're not suited to lead it. I think that British political problems are partly caused by over-emphasis on winning at all costs, with actual ambitions to achieve anything in particular seen as secondary. You can't achieve anything unless you win, but you shouldn't even stand if you don't know what you're trying to achieve.
That’s fair - but what I think is missing from this is any kind of appreciation that parties of government (or that aspire to government) under a two party system are necessarily coalitions. if you’re insisting on ideological purity, then you’re wanting something that’s essentially undemocratic- seeking majority rule for a set of views which don’t have majority approval.
I’m happy to recognise that you can make similar criticisms of those holding other particular political views, but your “whether he won an election or not” comment is what struck me.
Comments
What they aren't is a whole industrial strategy.
Ed Miliband is the only former leader who is still a Labour MP.
Edit - I think I'm also right in saying he's the only former Labour leader to remain in the Commons for more than 10 years after his leadership ended since the position of Labour Party leader was established in 1923.
(TBF, I note you are anyway considering joining a different party.)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0k2858jj1o
What's really needed are better players at the top of the order, and just a bit more common sense from the middle order.
Corbyn twice got a higher
Labour voteshare than Ed Miliband did.
If Ed Miliband became Labour leader again only one person would be more delighted than you...Kemi Badenoch
Miliband did make a net gain of seats from the Conservatives in particular, but that was eclipsed by the train crash in Scotland to the SNP which pushed him to a net loss overall.
Indeed, Miliband's performance was comparable to Hague's, and somewhat better than Heath's and Attlee's.
That is a statistic that should give Badenoch pause, whoever leads Labour.
Streeting of course also potentially gets a bit of a boost because he'd be the first openly LGBT PM.
(These things don't matter in the general scheme of things - people will just want someone who does a good job - but we do have to remember that they do matter to a good chunk of the Labour selectorate).
Personally I think Labour's problems are much deeper than who their leader is. But Streeting or Burnham are probably their two best chances because I think they can communicate much better. I think Mahmood is the most in tune with the country right now, but I don't think she can get past the selectorate. Rayner, Phillipson, Reeves, Lammy, Miliband would all be disastrous.
(Actually Milliband since it's misspelled.)
Labour Hague, intellectual and
popular with party members
but a massive turn off for swing
voters and too geeky and too much of a nerd to really be considered as PM
I agree that Streeting has such a history of fomenting division that he could never be a unifying force, rather he would likely lead Labour into an existential crisis. By contrast the party membership would accept either Rayner or Miliband as a unifying force and either would have a chance of clawing back some of the support lost to the greens, both members and the wider electorate. Rayner has told Streeting where to go and if a deal is done between leadership candidates the only realistic prospect of a pact is between Miliband and Rayner, which would boost either's chances.
Reeves has faced accusations about sexing up her CV, but the only people who really care are those who dislike her anyway.
Being critical of a Tory PM, even slightly erroneously, is not going to harm any Labour leadership candidate.
https://mattchorley.substack.com/p/looking-like-a-pm-in-waiting
https://labourlist.org/2025/11/labour-cabinet-league-table-november-2025/
Personally I think she has the right instincts but that her proposals on migration and citizenship have gone too far.
The EU should be abolished and sovereignty returned to individual countries, so that governments can better represent their people
What would such a leader do with the Post Office Scandal or Hillsborough?
Four arrested after Tower of London display case containing State Crown defaced
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpd61w22e3no
We have that, its called the House of Commons. Dickheads. 🤦♂️
IMO, media should minimise their coverage of these stunts and certainly not allow them to give their talking points. Its like streaking basically stopped as soon as they refused to show it on tv.
Quite whom it is unkind to, of course...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpd61w22e3no
Don't they know there are starving children in Africa? (School dinners joke!)
Predictably, police have closed it while they sniff around, thus, as is there normal practice, inconveniencing tourists and greatly magnifying the impact of the initial publicity stunt.
Isn't it a MAGA meme the foreign billionaire should stay out of other folks' politics ?
Musk has become a toxic international propagandist - not least for his hosting of millions of Russian propaganda bots.
FFS in Scotland now they avoid jailing people under 25 as their brains are not supposed to be fully developed before that.
Last PM we had with a decent sense of humour was, er, Boris.
When I was at school "gay" was a common insult - but never at someone who was actually gay. Happily any use of it has ended (or so I'm told by teacher friends).
First is that "I'm not a racist, but (say something racist)" factor. People are often happy for awful things to happen, as long as they aren't said out loud. Farage has been a master of that for decades as an adult, but tenny Nigel was more careless.
The sensible thing for him to do would be to say "I was a dick as a teenager, I regret saying those things." But he can't. Partly because he has an undeserved reputation for plain speaking, partly because he needs the votes of racists to get anywhere, but mostly because he's a vain old goat who can't admit he was wrong.
If you want to make a bolshy teenager shrivel, get their parents in and ask them to repeat what they said to that child they were bullying.
Times change but looking back 40 or 50 years is for morons, plenty over last 20 years as an adult to not like about Farage if you are that way inclined but furore over what a 13 year old did in a completely different world is pathetic.
I can see the complainers wanting their revenge but for anybody else , give your head a good wobble (not aimed at you personally).
But my point is there is a big difference between genuine banter, which is kids normally just repeating stuff out loud they’ve probably heard from adults, and it seems what Farage is claiming he did, and cruelly singling out/picking on kids individually because of race or religion, which he is accused of. I’d say everyone I know has done the former and none the latter, they’re very different things
And gains by Nationalists are going to be the joker in the pack are, I suspect, for the next two or three elections.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/10/police-raid-london-quaker-meeting-house-very-worrying
https://youthdemand.org/2025/04/01/youth-demand-actions-to-shut-it-down-for-palestine-to-kick-off-tonight/
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250807-uk-pensioner-student-arrested-for-backing-palestine-action
And Miriam Cranch
https://news.met.police.uk/news/more-than-100-additional-people-charged-with-supporting-palestine-action-503434
https://youthdemand.org/2025/10/30/youth-demand-supporters-poster-mps-offices-to-deliver-peoples-charters-to-representatives/
Can I just check that ydoethur has been posting this morning?
https://x.com/stevebakerfrsa/status/1996942845429559442?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
If the accusations against Farage's school behaviour are true, his behaviour went way beyond teenage 'banter'.
He's usually quite good at that kind of sorrowful reflection - indeed he frames a lot of his immigration rhetoric in that way. Not sure why he feels incapable in this instance, which makes me suspect he'd have to apologise for a lot more than the kind of playground chat we are more familiar with. No one likes a bully.
What bothers me is the overwhelming evidence that Farage has actually not changed since being a deeply nasty teenager. *That* is why this story is a problem.
Just as Corbyn's past association with antisemites and dodgy Russophiles would not have been a problem if we didn't think he still privately held the views he'd espoused then.
My puns are good ones.
My recent trip to Brussels for the @NATO Ministerial meeting left me with one overriding impression: the US has long failed to address the glaring inconsistency between its relations with NATO and the EU. These are almost all the same countries in both organizations. When these countries wear their NATO hats, they insist that Transatlantic cooperation is the cornerstone of our mutual security. But when these countries wear their EU hats, they pursue all sorts of agendas that are often utterly adverse to US interests and security—including censorship, economic suicide/climate fanaticism, open borders, disdain for national sovereignty/promotion of multilateral governance and taxation, support for Communist Cuba, etc etc. This inconsistency cannot continue. Either the great nations of Europe are our partners in protecting the Western civilization that we inherited from them or they are not. But we cannot pretend that we are partners while those nations allow the EU’s unelected, undemocratic, and unrepresentative bureaucracy in Brussels to pursue policies of civilizational suicide.
if you’re insisting on ideological purity, then you’re wanting something that’s essentially undemocratic- seeking majority rule for a set of views which don’t have majority approval.
I’m happy to recognise that you can make similar criticisms of those holding other particular political views, but your “whether he won an election or not” comment is what struck me.
2 day test again....