Avoiding Lucy – politicalbetting.com

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Avoiding Lucy – politicalbetting.com

Polling on Lucy Connolly tweet following her release finds that 35% think her sentence too harsh, but the majority of Brits: 52% say it was about right or too lenient. Most 2024 Reform voters say too harsh, Tory voters split harsh or lenient/about right. Most Labour/LD/Green the latter

Read the full story here

Sunil_Prasannan

First like Reform

Gallowgate

2nd rate like Reform

HYUFD

Judge Lucy Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election win of 2029.

You heard it here first!

Note too 35% thinking the Connolly sentence was too harsh may be a minority view but above the current 30% Reform voteshare

TheScreamingEagles

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Judge Lucy Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election win of 2029.

You heard it here first!

Note too 35% thinking the Connolly sentence was too harsh may be a minority view but above the current 30% Reform voteshare

You are barking

Sean_F

HYUFD said:

Judge Lucy Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election win of 2029.

You heard it here first!

Note too 35% thinking the Connolly sentence was too harsh may be a minority view but above the current 30% Reform voteshare

40% when you exclude don't knows.

Sunil_Prasannan

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Lucy Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election win of 2029.

You heard it here first!

Note too 35% thinking the Connolly sentence was too harsh may be a minority view but above the current 30% Reform voteshare

You are barking

Epping.

numbertwelve

This again comes back to my argument about the polling on the Reform deportation plans which was also a header on here a couple of days back.

There does appear to be a pattern that specific Reform talking points and policies etc have minority appeal when polled; but yet Reform are doing pretty well in VI all things considered. I still think a large part of the next GE is going to come down to ‘feels’ for want of a better word, and if people stick with the mainstream for fear of something worse or feel so fed up they want to roll the dice on something new.

Sean_F

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

Northern_Al

FFS. Earlier I suggested posting about Lucy C******** was so f'ing boring that the mods should consider drawing a line in the sand.
Now there's a flaming header on her. Tut.

Taz

I only know of two Lucy’s. My first girlfriend Lucy and page 3 Stunna Lucious Lucy Gresty. Best not to google her

moonshine

numbertwelve said:

This again comes back to my argument about the polling on the Reform deportation plans which was also a header on here a couple of days back.

There does appear to be a pattern that specific Reform talking points and policies etc have minority appeal when polled; but yet Reform are doing pretty well in VI all things considered. I still think a large part of the next GE is going to come down to ‘feels’ for want of a better word, and if people stick with the mainstream for fear of something worse or feel so fed up they want to roll the dice on something new.

“A plague on all your houses”.

Stuartinromford

numbertwelve said:

This again comes back to my argument about the polling on the Reform deportation plans which was also a header on here a couple of days back.

There does appear to be a pattern that specific Reform talking points and policies etc have minority appeal when polled; but yet Reform are doing pretty well in VI all things considered. I still think a large part of the next GE is going to come down to ‘feels’ for want of a better word, and if people stick with the mainstream for fear of something worse or feel so fed up they want to roll the dice on something new.

Reform are top of the heap, but it's not that impressive a heap by historical standards. John Major got 31% and a landslide defeat in 1997.

About a third of the electorate are currently full-on Faragists. It's what the other two thirds do that matter. Are they going to let him in, or put a lot of pegs on a lot of noses at the next election?

kinabalu

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

Carnyx

Taz said:

I only know of two Lucy’s. My first girlfriend Lucy and page 3 Stunna Lucious Lucy Gresty. Best not to google her

Mildly surprised you've never heard of this one:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/what-lucy-one-of-the-worlds-most-important-fossils-has-taught-scientists-in-the-50-years-since-her-discovery-180985541/
https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/australopithecus-afarensis-lucy-species.html

Big_G_NorthWales

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

And the reason labour has to stop the boats to change the narrative

Taz

Carnyx said:

Taz said:

I only know of two Lucy’s. My first girlfriend Lucy and page 3 Stunna Lucious Lucy Gresty. Best not to google her

Mildly surprised you've never heard of this one:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/what-lucy-one-of-the-worlds-most-important-fossils-has-taught-scientists-in-the-50-years-since-her-discovery-180985541/
https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/australopithecus-afarensis-lucy-species.html

Thanks. That’s really interesting

I’d heard of Australopithecus ever since it was card 50 in the Brooke bond tea card set ‘Prehistoric Animals’ but didn’t know her names Lucy

Taz

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

I’ll schedule 10 minutes to dwell on it later

Mexicanpete

HYUFD said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Northern_Al said:

I listened carefully to all of the judgement. Regardless of the politics, legally it was a no-brainer. I've never heard such a coruscating attack by an Appeal Court, not even delivered in particularly coded language, of the poverty of the legal reasoning of the initial judgement granting the injunction. If people want to find fault and sack judges, they should look at the judge who delivered the 19/8 judgement.

Yes, Farage and Jenrick would be well advised to distance themselves from this case. Just say: 'Yes, Epping council were morally in the right but you can't expect to win in the current climate when your case has more holes than a colander. We need to up our game and we will!' That will probably garner more respect than whinging.

Jenrick was out with the protestors, Farage may follow suit, whipping them up against the 'left liberal elite' ignoring them

Remind me which Immigration Minister trumpeted the fact that HE was INCREASING the use of asylum hotels just two or three years ago.

HYUFD

'@EssexPR
🚨 COURT RULES AGAINST EPPING CLOSURE OF THE BELL HOTEL

The Government is at war with the British people.

We will peacefully protest on Sunday in HUGE numbers, under our democratic right to do so.'

https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1961421972543311948

Sean_F

Stuartinromford said:

numbertwelve said:

This again comes back to my argument about the polling on the Reform deportation plans which was also a header on here a couple of days back.

There does appear to be a pattern that specific Reform talking points and policies etc have minority appeal when polled; but yet Reform are doing pretty well in VI all things considered. I still think a large part of the next GE is going to come down to ‘feels’ for want of a better word, and if people stick with the mainstream for fear of something worse or feel so fed up they want to roll the dice on something new.

Reform are top of the heap, but it's not that impressive a heap by historical standards. John Major got 31% and a landslide defeat in 1997.

About a third of the electorate are currently full-on Faragists. It's what the other two thirds do that matter. Are they going to let him in, or put a lot of pegs on a lot of noses at the next election?

The figures that count are the respective proportions that vote right, and vote left. So long as the right wing vote is c.48%, and so long as Reform are winning the majority of that vote, it's hard to see how they don't finish with a plurality, at least, in seats.

kinabalu

Taz said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

I’ll schedule 10 minutes to dwell on it later

Make sure you do.

HYUFD

Mexicanpete said:

HYUFD said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Northern_Al said:

I listened carefully to all of the judgement. Regardless of the politics, legally it was a no-brainer. I've never heard such a coruscating attack by an Appeal Court, not even delivered in particularly coded language, of the poverty of the legal reasoning of the initial judgement granting the injunction. If people want to find fault and sack judges, they should look at the judge who delivered the 19/8 judgement.

Yes, Farage and Jenrick would be well advised to distance themselves from this case. Just say: 'Yes, Epping council were morally in the right but you can't expect to win in the current climate when your case has more holes than a colander. We need to up our game and we will!' That will probably garner more respect than whinging.

Jenrick was out with the protestors, Farage may follow suit, whipping them up against the 'left liberal elite' ignoring them

Remind me which Immigration Minister trumpeted the fact that HE was INCREASING the use of asylum hotels just two or three years ago.

Due to migrants coming over to avoid the Taliban as Kabul fell, the Tory government stopped using the hotel in Epping for migrants last year but Labour started using it again for them this year

Malmesbury

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

One fascinating bit, if you have a dark sense of humour, is reading about how lawyers involved in planning the Holocaust were concerned about where the victims would die. Quite a lot of insurance polices were voided by killing them in a different country to their home country. Which saved the German insurance companies lots.

The mentality required to follow the law on the insurance policies and yet....

Stark_Dawning

Now, is Nigel still keen to introduce Lucy to Donald Trump? It might be risky with the way Donald can at times go off-piste. If he says something like 'Yeah, I don't normally approve of people burning down hotels - I own thousands of them myself - but if you burnt down one housing a bunch of Ukrainians... I mean it's not nice but it might be necessary' that could be embarrassing.

ydoethur

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

So basically about a sixth of the population are racist Fukkers?

Mexicanpete

HYUFD said:

'@EssexPR
🚨 COURT RULES AGAINST EPPING CLOSURE OF THE BELL HOTEL

The Government is at war with the British people.

We will peacefully protest on Sunday in HUGE numbers, under our democratic right to do so.'

https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1961421972543311948

Are you channeling the Kaiser Chiefs?

Malmesbury

Stuartinromford said:

numbertwelve said:

This again comes back to my argument about the polling on the Reform deportation plans which was also a header on here a couple of days back.

There does appear to be a pattern that specific Reform talking points and policies etc have minority appeal when polled; but yet Reform are doing pretty well in VI all things considered. I still think a large part of the next GE is going to come down to ‘feels’ for want of a better word, and if people stick with the mainstream for fear of something worse or feel so fed up they want to roll the dice on something new.

Reform are top of the heap, but it's not that impressive a heap by historical standards. John Major got 31% and a landslide defeat in 1997.

About a third of the electorate are currently full-on Faragists. It's what the other two thirds do that matter. Are they going to let him in, or put a lot of pegs on a lot of noses at the next election?

What wouldn't we give for John Major, now?

AnneJGP

HYUFD said:

'@EssexPR
🚨 COURT RULES AGAINST EPPING CLOSURE OF THE BELL HOTEL

The Government is at war with the British people.

We will peacefully protest on Sunday in HUGE numbers, under our democratic right to do so.'

https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1961421972543311948

Lock up your roundabouts?

Mortimer

Malmesbury said:

Stuartinromford said:

numbertwelve said:

This again comes back to my argument about the polling on the Reform deportation plans which was also a header on here a couple of days back.

There does appear to be a pattern that specific Reform talking points and policies etc have minority appeal when polled; but yet Reform are doing pretty well in VI all things considered. I still think a large part of the next GE is going to come down to ‘feels’ for want of a better word, and if people stick with the mainstream for fear of something worse or feel so fed up they want to roll the dice on something new.

Reform are top of the heap, but it's not that impressive a heap by historical standards. John Major got 31% and a landslide defeat in 1997.

About a third of the electorate are currently full-on Faragists. It's what the other two thirds do that matter. Are they going to let him in, or put a lot of pegs on a lot of noses at the next election?

What wouldn't we give for John Major, now?

He was about as non-fleet-of-foot as Starmer....

Taz

kinabalu said:

Taz said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

I’ll schedule 10 minutes to dwell on it later

Make sure you do.

11.05 til 11.15

Just before I reacquaint myself with Lucy Gresty

Northern_Al

Funnily enough, many, many years ago I stayed in the Bell Hotel, Epping, for several days, on business.

I have to report that it was such a dump that me any my colleagues threatened to riot if we were ever put up there again.

Taz

HYUFD said:

'@EssexPR
🚨 COURT RULES AGAINST EPPING CLOSURE OF THE BELL HOTEL

The Government is at war with the British people.

We will peacefully protest on Sunday in HUGE numbers, under our democratic right to do so.'

https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1961421972543311948

Can’t help. Will be hijacked by the far right

Let’s hope it’s torrential rain

HYUFD

HYUFD said:

'@EssexPR
🚨 COURT RULES AGAINST EPPING CLOSURE OF THE BELL HOTEL

The Government is at war with the British people.

We will peacefully protest on Sunday in HUGE numbers, under our democratic right to do so.'

https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1961421972543311948

No surprise in Robinson's response either

'These 3 Labour judges have just ruled that Epping must have unvetted migrant men in their town.

In the same week that Hadush Gerberslasie Kebatu, an illegal immigrant being housed there, is on trial for sex attacks on 2 children and a woman.

The government vs the people.'

https://x.com/TRobinsonNewEra/status/1961429404908671305

boulay

Mortimer said:

Malmesbury said:

Stuartinromford said:

numbertwelve said:

This again comes back to my argument about the polling on the Reform deportation plans which was also a header on here a couple of days back.

There does appear to be a pattern that specific Reform talking points and policies etc have minority appeal when polled; but yet Reform are doing pretty well in VI all things considered. I still think a large part of the next GE is going to come down to ‘feels’ for want of a better word, and if people stick with the mainstream for fear of something worse or feel so fed up they want to roll the dice on something new.

Reform are top of the heap, but it's not that impressive a heap by historical standards. John Major got 31% and a landslide defeat in 1997.

About a third of the electorate are currently full-on Faragists. It's what the other two thirds do that matter. Are they going to let him in, or put a lot of pegs on a lot of noses at the next election?

What wouldn't we give for John Major, now?

He was about as non-fleet-of-foot as Starmer....

And they both had a Curry when they probably shouldn’t have.

JosiasJessop

Well, that was an 'exciting' afternoon.

Out downstairs loo wasn't draining, so I called our friendly local plumber. He arrived within 24 hours, to find out the drain under our property was blocked well downstream. Part of the blockage were some (ahem) large sanitary-style pads that had obviously come from upstream of our house.

Not a pleasant job, and we gave him twenty quid beer money on top of the bill. A very pleasant young chap though, who is golf mad.

nova

Sean_F said:

Stuartinromford said:

numbertwelve said:

This again comes back to my argument about the polling on the Reform deportation plans which was also a header on here a couple of days back.

There does appear to be a pattern that specific Reform talking points and policies etc have minority appeal when polled; but yet Reform are doing pretty well in VI all things considered. I still think a large part of the next GE is going to come down to ‘feels’ for want of a better word, and if people stick with the mainstream for fear of something worse or feel so fed up they want to roll the dice on something new.

Reform are top of the heap, but it's not that impressive a heap by historical standards. John Major got 31% and a landslide defeat in 1997.

About a third of the electorate are currently full-on Faragists. It's what the other two thirds do that matter. Are they going to let him in, or put a lot of pegs on a lot of noses at the next election?

The figures that count are the respective proportions that vote right, and vote left. So long as the right wing vote is c.48%, and so long as Reform are winning the majority of that vote, it's hard to see how they don't finish with a plurality, at least, in seats.

And plenty of polling to suggest that voters are most likely to gang up against Reform.

Just a few weeks Reform had begun an attempt to target a broader vote. I do wonder if the immigration debate moving further to the right, is going to lower their potential vote ceiling, and strengthen the "anyone but" anti-Reform vote. Something we'll likely not find out till a General election.

kinabalu

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

And the reason labour has to stop the boats to change the narrative

Yes, here's hoping.

Half of Reform's support is driven by racism is the gloomy take but the sunnier one (which I always try to go with) is that half of it isn't.

So some (perhaps many) of the latter can be peeled off depending on developments between now and the GE.

I know we'd both like to see that, me from a Lab perspective and you from a Con one.

OldKingCole

Taz said:

HYUFD said:

'@EssexPR
🚨 COURT RULES AGAINST EPPING CLOSURE OF THE BELL HOTEL

The Government is at war with the British people.

We will peacefully protest on Sunday in HUGE numbers, under our democratic right to do so.'

https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1961421972543311948

Can’t help. Will be hojacked by the far right

Let’s hope it’s torrential rain

Keep it there, though. There's a Beer Festival some 30 or so miles away (as the crow flies) that I plan to visit. And there'll be quite a few of my friends and fellow townsfolk drinking there too.

Malmesbury

Northern_Al said:

Funnily enough, many, many years ago I stayed in the Bell Hotel, Epping, for several days, on business.

I have to report that it was such a dump that me any my colleagues threatened to riot if we were ever put up there again.

Interesting. Colleagues who stayed at the Britannia Hotel in Canary Wharf threatened all sorts - apparently it was the worst hotel they had ever stayed at for business.

HYUFD

Malmesbury said:

Stuartinromford said:

numbertwelve said:

This again comes back to my argument about the polling on the Reform deportation plans which was also a header on here a couple of days back.

There does appear to be a pattern that specific Reform talking points and policies etc have minority appeal when polled; but yet Reform are doing pretty well in VI all things considered. I still think a large part of the next GE is going to come down to ‘feels’ for want of a better word, and if people stick with the mainstream for fear of something worse or feel so fed up they want to roll the dice on something new.

Reform are top of the heap, but it's not that impressive a heap by historical standards. John Major got 31% and a landslide defeat in 1997.

About a third of the electorate are currently full-on Faragists. It's what the other two thirds do that matter. Are they going to let him in, or put a lot of pegs on a lot of noses at the next election?

What wouldn't we give for John Major, now?

Major would not in his wildest dreams have thought he would be second longest serving PM for the next 28 years when he lost by a landslide in 1997. Nor that his successor, who would be the only PM to serve longer than him, would end up reviled over a war in Iraq, whereas his war in the same nation ended up a great victory and popular and removed Saddam from Kuwait

Big_G_NorthWales

AnneJGP said:

HYUFD said:

'@EssexPR
🚨 COURT RULES AGAINST EPPING CLOSURE OF THE BELL HOTEL

The Government is at war with the British people.

We will peacefully protest on Sunday in HUGE numbers, under our democratic right to do so.'

https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1961421972543311948

Lock up your roundabouts?

More likely painted with England flag

Andy_JS

"Chris Philp MP
@CPhilpOfficial

The Epping case has seen the Labour Government using the courts against the British public

The government even brazenly said in court that the rights of illegal immigrants were more important than the rights of local people

The numbers in asylum hotels were dropping fast before the election - but have risen since because Labour has lost control of our borders

We need a proper deterrent so that all illegal immigrants are immediately removed on arrival. Then no one would bother crossing in the first place. We had a plan to do this - the Rwanda plan - but Labour scrapped it just before it was due to start. And as a result, numbers crossing the channel are now the worst ever

We have a full blown border crisis and public safety crisis - but this government is too weak to take the action needed to fix it"

https://x.com/CPhilpOfficial/status/1961438588240797705

Northern_Al

Malmesbury said:

Northern_Al said:

Funnily enough, many, many years ago I stayed in the Bell Hotel, Epping, for several days, on business.

I have to report that it was such a dump that me any my colleagues threatened to riot if we were ever put up there again.

Interesting. Colleagues who stayed at the Britannia Hotel in Canary Wharf threatened all sorts - apparently it was the worst hotel they had ever stayed at for business.

Britannia Hotels have a deserved reputation for awfulness. I stayed in one in Manchester that was indescribably awful - absolutely filthy. No surprise if they tout for business other than paying guests.

OldKingCole

HYUFD said:

Malmesbury said:

Stuartinromford said:

numbertwelve said:

This again comes back to my argument about the polling on the Reform deportation plans which was also a header on here a couple of days back.

There does appear to be a pattern that specific Reform talking points and policies etc have minority appeal when polled; but yet Reform are doing pretty well in VI all things considered. I still think a large part of the next GE is going to come down to ‘feels’ for want of a better word, and if people stick with the mainstream for fear of something worse or feel so fed up they want to roll the dice on something new.

Reform are top of the heap, but it's not that impressive a heap by historical standards. John Major got 31% and a landslide defeat in 1997.

About a third of the electorate are currently full-on Faragists. It's what the other two thirds do that matter. Are they going to let him in, or put a lot of pegs on a lot of noses at the next election?

What wouldn't we give for John Major, now?

Major would not in his wildest dreams have thought he would be second longest serving PM for the next 28 years when he lost by a landslide in 1997. Nor that his successor, who would be the only PM to serve longer than him, would end up reviled over a war in Iraq, whereas his war in the same nation ended up a great victory and popular and removed Saddam from Kuwait

I don't think Coalition forces crossed the Iraq/Kuwait border did they?

kinabalu

ydoethur said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

So basically about a sixth of the population are racist Fukkers?

Yep. It's that 15% or so. The % that like Trump. Same people. Farage has got them. It's his base.

Taz

OldKingCole said:

Taz said:

HYUFD said:

'@EssexPR
🚨 COURT RULES AGAINST EPPING CLOSURE OF THE BELL HOTEL

The Government is at war with the British people.

We will peacefully protest on Sunday in HUGE numbers, under our democratic right to do so.'

https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1961421972543311948

Can’t help. Will be hojacked by the far right

Let’s hope it’s torrential rain

Keep it there, though. There's a Beer Festival some 30 or so miles away (as the crow flies) that I plan to visit. And there'll be quite a few of my friends and fellow townsfolk drinking there too.

As loathe as I am To stereotype unless they do carling or Madri I think you won’t be troubled

kinabalu

Taz said:

kinabalu said:

Taz said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

I’ll schedule 10 minutes to dwell on it later

Make sure you do.

11.05 til 11.15

Just before I reacquaint myself with Lucy Gresty

Whatever it takes, Taz.

Malmesbury

Northern_Al said:

Malmesbury said:

Northern_Al said:

Funnily enough, many, many years ago I stayed in the Bell Hotel, Epping, for several days, on business.

I have to report that it was such a dump that me any my colleagues threatened to riot if we were ever put up there again.

Interesting. Colleagues who stayed at the Britannia Hotel in Canary Wharf threatened all sorts - apparently it was the worst hotel they had ever stayed at for business.

Britannia Hotels have a deserved reputation for awfulness. I stayed in one in Manchester that was indescribably awful - absolutely filthy. No surprise if they tout for business other than paying guests.

The worst I ever encountered was the Skean Dhu Hotel outside Aberdeen. The locals believed that it was built as a prison but rejected on human rights grounds.

Big_G_NorthWales

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

And the reason labour has to stop the boats to change the narrative

Yes, here's hoping.

Half of Reform's support is driven by racism is the gloomy take but the sunnier one (which I always try to go with) is that half of it isn't.

So some (perhaps many) of the latter can be peeled off depending on developments between now and the GE.

I know we'd both like to see that, me from a Lab perspective and you from a Con one.

I am perfectly happy with legal immigration but like many others am wholly opposed to the boats

Stop the boats and you remove the toxicity

It may require us to temporarily leave the ECHR, but this is becoming far more widely supported including in the labour party

OldKingCole

Taz said:

OldKingCole said:

Taz said:

HYUFD said:

'@EssexPR
🚨 COURT RULES AGAINST EPPING CLOSURE OF THE BELL HOTEL

The Government is at war with the British people.

We will peacefully protest on Sunday in HUGE numbers, under our democratic right to do so.'

https://x.com/EssexPR/status/1961421972543311948

Can’t help. Will be hojacked by the far right

Let’s hope it’s torrential rain

Keep it there, though. There's a Beer Festival some 30 or so miles away (as the crow flies) that I plan to visit. And there'll be quite a few of my friends and fellow townsfolk drinking there too.

As loathe as I am To stereotype unless they do carling or Madri I think you won’t be troubled

It's mainly local beers usually. Colchester Brewery and the local Wharf Brewery, and the like.

TheScreamingEagles

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

Carnyx

Malmesbury said:

Northern_Al said:

Malmesbury said:

Northern_Al said:

Funnily enough, many, many years ago I stayed in the Bell Hotel, Epping, for several days, on business.

I have to report that it was such a dump that me any my colleagues threatened to riot if we were ever put up there again.

Interesting. Colleagues who stayed at the Britannia Hotel in Canary Wharf threatened all sorts - apparently it was the worst hotel they had ever stayed at for business.

Britannia Hotels have a deserved reputation for awfulness. I stayed in one in Manchester that was indescribably awful - absolutely filthy. No surprise if they tout for business other than paying guests.

The worst I ever encountered was the Skean Dhu Hotel outside Aberdeen. The locals believed that it was built as a prison but rejected on human rights grounds.

Britannia don't seem to have improved, or at least they haven't overtaken their competitors.

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/uk-hotel-chains/article/hotel-star-ratings-explained-a0bgV3M8kfx2

And some of us might like toi see this explanation:

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/uk-hotel-chains/article/hotel-star-ratings-explained-a0bgV3M8kfx2

"4 star hotel (all of the above, plus...)
Very good social skills and anticipation of individual guests' needs evident
Booking confirmation provided by email/text or letter from hotel (not only from third party booking site)
Assistance with luggage offered on arrival and advertised as available for departure
Laundry and possibly dry cleaning service provided and advertised with prices
Courteous, unobtrusive and polite restaurant staff demonstrate very good levels of food, beverage and wine product knowledge and service skills
Restaurant staff demonstrate proactive service, anticipating customer requirements
Table service advertised and available on request at breakfast
Room service should be provided and delivered to the room where there is a market need
All bedrooms with a higher degree of spaciousness
Individually controlled thermostatic heating operable 24-hours"

Sunil_Prasannan

Taz said:

I only know of two Lucy’s. My first girlfriend Lucy and page 3 Stunna Lucious Lucy Gresty. Best not to google her

Lucy Lawless. Xena and Battlestar.

FeersumEnjineeya

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

And the reason labour has to stop the boats to change the narrative

Yes, here's hoping.

Half of Reform's support is driven by racism is the gloomy take but the sunnier one (which I always try to go with) is that half of it isn't.

So some (perhaps many) of the latter can be peeled off depending on developments between now and the GE.

I know we'd both like to see that, me from a Lab perspective and you from a Con one.

I am perfectly happy with legal immigration but like many others am wholly opposed to the boats

Stop the boats and you remove the toxicity

It may require us to temporarily leave the ECHR, but this is becoming far more widely supported including in the labour party

Given that the asylum process requires asylum seekers to apply for asylum from within the UK, it hard to see how there is any way in which they can enter the country legally. Providing some means by which it is possible to apply for asylum from outside the UK would surely go some way towards stopping the boats.

Sunil_Prasannan

Northern_Al said:

Malmesbury said:

Northern_Al said:

Funnily enough, many, many years ago I stayed in the Bell Hotel, Epping, for several days, on business.

I have to report that it was such a dump that me any my colleagues threatened to riot if we were ever put up there again.

Interesting. Colleagues who stayed at the Britannia Hotel in Canary Wharf threatened all sorts - apparently it was the worst hotel they had ever stayed at for business.

Britannia Hotels have a deserved reputation for awfulness. I stayed in one in Manchester that was indescribably awful - absolutely filthy. No surprise if they tout for business other than paying guests.

I'm a glutton for punishment, having stayed in Britannia Coventry, Birmingham, Wolverhampton, and Manchester over the years. The one in Birmingham was worst, the room I had having no exterior windows!

numbertwelve

Northern_Al said:

Malmesbury said:

Northern_Al said:

Funnily enough, many, many years ago I stayed in the Bell Hotel, Epping, for several days, on business.

I have to report that it was such a dump that me any my colleagues threatened to riot if we were ever put up there again.

Interesting. Colleagues who stayed at the Britannia Hotel in Canary Wharf threatened all sorts - apparently it was the worst hotel they had ever stayed at for business.

Britannia Hotels have a deserved reputation for awfulness. I stayed in one in Manchester that was indescribably awful - absolutely filthy. No surprise if they tout for business other than paying guests.

I’ve stayed in that one in Manchester. Grim.

Big_G_NorthWales

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

And the reason labour has to stop the boats to change the narrative

Yes, here's hoping.

Half of Reform's support is driven by racism is the gloomy take but the sunnier one (which I always try to go with) is that half of it isn't.

So some (perhaps many) of the latter can be peeled off depending on developments between now and the GE.

I know we'd both like to see that, me from a Lab perspective and you from a Con one.

I am perfectly happy with legal immigration but like many others am wholly opposed to the boats

Stop the boats and you remove the toxicity

It may require us to temporarily leave the ECHR, but this is becoming far more widely supported including in the labour party

Given that the asylum process requires asylum seekers to apply for asylum from within the UK, it hard to see how there is any way in which they can enter the country legally. Providing some means by which it is possible to apply for asylum from outside the UK would surely go some way towards stopping the boats.

431,000 was the figure for net immigration into the UK in 2024 which by common agreement is too high

However we do need a sensible immigration policy, but it will not get a hearing as long as the boats keep coming and hotels are used

numbertwelve

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

And the reason labour has to stop the boats to change the narrative

Yes, here's hoping.

Half of Reform's support is driven by racism is the gloomy take but the sunnier one (which I always try to go with) is that half of it isn't.

So some (perhaps many) of the latter can be peeled off depending on developments between now and the GE.

I know we'd both like to see that, me from a Lab perspective and you from a Con one.

I am perfectly happy with legal immigration but like many others am wholly opposed to the boats

Stop the boats and you remove the toxicity

It may require us to temporarily leave the ECHR, but this is becoming far more widely supported including in the labour party

I’ve said before, if Labour can’t get modest welfare cuts through the Commons then I will really believe them voting to derogate from/ leave the ECHR when I see it.

It’s just not in your regular Labour backbencher’s language.

Big_G_NorthWales

numbertwelve said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

And the reason labour has to stop the boats to change the narrative

Yes, here's hoping.

Half of Reform's support is driven by racism is the gloomy take but the sunnier one (which I always try to go with) is that half of it isn't.

So some (perhaps many) of the latter can be peeled off depending on developments between now and the GE.

I know we'd both like to see that, me from a Lab perspective and you from a Con one.

I am perfectly happy with legal immigration but like many others am wholly opposed to the boats

Stop the boats and you remove the toxicity

It may require us to temporarily leave the ECHR, but this is becoming far more widely supported including in the labour party

I’ve said before, if Labour can’t get modest welfare cuts through the Commons then I will really believe them voting to derogate from/ leave the ECHR when I see it.

It’s just not in your regular Labour backbencher’s language.

Red wall labour mps may have a different view

Carnyx

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

You get the dissonance nicely shown in some of the Philip Kerr cycle of novels about Bernie Gunther - especially during Gunther's service on the Eastern Front. The contrast with the respect for the law and what was happening ...

TheScreamingEagles

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

You get the dissonance nicely shown in some of the Philip Kerr cycle of novels about Bernie Gunther - especially during Gunther's service on the Eastern Front. The contrast with the respect for the law and what was happening ...

As a young man, one quote that had a profound impact on me and made me a Conservative and makes me recoil from the modern day Tory party is this one, Mrs Thatcher would be disgusted at the modern day Tory party.

‘The legal system we have and the rule of law are far more responsible for our traditional liberties than any system of one man one vote. Any country or government which wants to proceed towards tyranny starts to undermine legal rights and undermine the law.’

Sean_F

Malmesbury said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

One fascinating bit, if you have a dark sense of humour, is reading about how lawyers involved in planning the Holocaust were concerned about where the victims would die. Quite a lot of insurance polices were voided by killing them in a different country to their home country. Which saved the German insurance companies lots.

The mentality required to follow the law on the insurance policies and yet....

In "Conspiracy" nobody present really objects to the principle of mass killings of non-German Jews, but there is very heated argument about the legal definition of who actually is a German Jew (do quarter or half-Jews count) , and what happens, in terms of divorce mechanisms and issuing death certificates, if non-Jewish spouses are married to German Jews.

FeersumEnjineeya

Big_G_NorthWales said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

And the reason labour has to stop the boats to change the narrative

Yes, here's hoping.

Half of Reform's support is driven by racism is the gloomy take but the sunnier one (which I always try to go with) is that half of it isn't.

So some (perhaps many) of the latter can be peeled off depending on developments between now and the GE.

I know we'd both like to see that, me from a Lab perspective and you from a Con one.

I am perfectly happy with legal immigration but like many others am wholly opposed to the boats

Stop the boats and you remove the toxicity

It may require us to temporarily leave the ECHR, but this is becoming far more widely supported including in the labour party

Given that the asylum process requires asylum seekers to apply for asylum from within the UK, it hard to see how there is any way in which they can enter the country legally. Providing some means by which it is possible to apply for asylum from outside the UK would surely go some way towards stopping the boats.

431,000 was the figure for net immigration into the UK in 2024 which by common agreement is too high

However we do need a sensible immigration policy, but it will not get a hearing as long as the boats keep coming and hotels are used

Yes, but my point is that the boats will keep coming unless there is some other way in which would-be asylum seekers can apply for asylum. They simply have nothing to lose. If there was an accessible, legal way of applying for asylum, this would help to reduce the boat numbers, especially if arrival by boat reduced the chance of a successful application.

Sean_F

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

You get the dissonance nicely shown in some of the Philip Kerr cycle of novels about Bernie Gunther - especially during Gunther's service on the Eastern Front. The contrast with the respect for the law and what was happening ...

As a young man, one quote that had a profound impact on me and made me a Conservative and makes me recoil from the modern day Tory party is this one, Mrs Thatcher would be disgusted at the modern day Tory party.

‘The legal system we have and the rule of law are far more responsible for our traditional liberties than any system of one man one vote. Any country or government which wants to proceed towards tyranny starts to undermine legal rights and undermine the law.’

As the Nazi jurists demonstrate, law can easily be made into an instrument of tyranny.

Hence the exchange between the robber chief Bulla Felix and Papinian.

"Why are you a brigand?"

"Well, why are you a magistrate?"

Theuniondivvie

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Taz said:

I only know of two Lucy’s. My first girlfriend Lucy and page 3 Stunna Lucious Lucy Gresty. Best not to google her

Lucy Lawless. Xena and Battlestar.

Lucy Jordan, quite a good ballad about her I believe.
Marianne Faithfull version of course.

OldKingCole

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

And the reason labour has to stop the boats to change the narrative

Yes, here's hoping.

Half of Reform's support is driven by racism is the gloomy take but the sunnier one (which I always try to go with) is that half of it isn't.

So some (perhaps many) of the latter can be peeled off depending on developments between now and the GE.

I know we'd both like to see that, me from a Lab perspective and you from a Con one.

I am perfectly happy with legal immigration but like many others am wholly opposed to the boats

Stop the boats and you remove the toxicity

It may require us to temporarily leave the ECHR, but this is becoming far more widely supported including in the labour party

Given that the asylum process requires asylum seekers to apply for asylum from within the UK, it hard to see how there is any way in which they can enter the country legally. Providing some means by which it is possible to apply for asylum from outside the UK would surely go some way towards stopping the boats.

431,000 was the figure for net immigration into the UK in 2024 which by common agreement is too high

However we do need a sensible immigration policy, but it will not get a hearing as long as the boats keep coming and hotels are used

Yes, but my point is that the boats will keep coming unless there is some other way in which would-be asylum seekers can apply for asylum. They simply have nothing to lose. If there was an accessible, legal way of applying for asylum, this would help to reduce the boat numbers, especially if arrival by boat reduced the chance of a successful application.

If one could only apply for asylum at one of our Embassies or Consular Offices that would perhaps help.

What was the procedure for the children on the Kindertransport?

Stark_Dawning

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

You get the dissonance nicely shown in some of the Philip Kerr cycle of novels about Bernie Gunther - especially during Gunther's service on the Eastern Front. The contrast with the respect for the law and what was happening ...

As a young man, one quote that had a profound impact on me and made me a Conservative and makes me recoil from the modern day Tory party is this one, Mrs Thatcher would be disgusted at the modern day Tory party.

‘The legal system we have and the rule of law are far more responsible for our traditional liberties than any system of one man one vote. Any country or government which wants to proceed towards tyranny starts to undermine legal rights and undermine the law.’

It'll be interesting to see when Reform and the Tories do a complete repudiation of Thatcher as Trump's MAGA has done with Reagan.

Alphabet_Soup

Theuniondivvie said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Taz said:

I only know of two Lucy’s. My first girlfriend Lucy and page 3 Stunna Lucious Lucy Gresty. Best not to google her

Lucy Lawless. Xena and Battlestar.

Lucy Jordan, quite a good ballad about her I believe.
Marianne Faithfull version of course.

A nocturnal upon St Lucy's Day - one of the bleakest poems in the language. And a reminder that her Day used to fall on the solstice before the calendar reform. I usually mention this on 13 December, but everything's early this year.

Stuartinromford

OldKingCole said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

And the reason labour has to stop the boats to change the narrative

Yes, here's hoping.

Half of Reform's support is driven by racism is the gloomy take but the sunnier one (which I always try to go with) is that half of it isn't.

So some (perhaps many) of the latter can be peeled off depending on developments between now and the GE.

I know we'd both like to see that, me from a Lab perspective and you from a Con one.

I am perfectly happy with legal immigration but like many others am wholly opposed to the boats

Stop the boats and you remove the toxicity

It may require us to temporarily leave the ECHR, but this is becoming far more widely supported including in the labour party

Given that the asylum process requires asylum seekers to apply for asylum from within the UK, it hard to see how there is any way in which they can enter the country legally. Providing some means by which it is possible to apply for asylum from outside the UK would surely go some way towards stopping the boats.

431,000 was the figure for net immigration into the UK in 2024 which by common agreement is too high

However we do need a sensible immigration policy, but it will not get a hearing as long as the boats keep coming and hotels are used

Yes, but my point is that the boats will keep coming unless there is some other way in which would-be asylum seekers can apply for asylum. They simply have nothing to lose. If there was an accessible, legal way of applying for asylum, this would help to reduce the boat numbers, especially if arrival by boat reduced the chance of a successful application.

If one could only apply for asylum at one of our Embassies or Consular Offices that would perhaps help.

What was the procedure for the children on the Kindertransport?

Trouble is that, although the boats are the presenting problem, and there are lots of good reasons to fix that problem...

... for many, they're not the problem.

Scott_xP

...

Foss

OldKingCole said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

And the reason labour has to stop the boats to change the narrative

Yes, here's hoping.

Half of Reform's support is driven by racism is the gloomy take but the sunnier one (which I always try to go with) is that half of it isn't.

So some (perhaps many) of the latter can be peeled off depending on developments between now and the GE.

I know we'd both like to see that, me from a Lab perspective and you from a Con one.

I am perfectly happy with legal immigration but like many others am wholly opposed to the boats

Stop the boats and you remove the toxicity

It may require us to temporarily leave the ECHR, but this is becoming far more widely supported including in the labour party

Given that the asylum process requires asylum seekers to apply for asylum from within the UK, it hard to see how there is any way in which they can enter the country legally. Providing some means by which it is possible to apply for asylum from outside the UK would surely go some way towards stopping the boats.

431,000 was the figure for net immigration into the UK in 2024 which by common agreement is too high

However we do need a sensible immigration policy, but it will not get a hearing as long as the boats keep coming and hotels are used

Yes, but my point is that the boats will keep coming unless there is some other way in which would-be asylum seekers can apply for asylum. They simply have nothing to lose. If there was an accessible, legal way of applying for asylum, this would help to reduce the boat numbers, especially if arrival by boat reduced the chance of a successful application.

If one could only apply for asylum at one of our Embassies or Consular Offices that would perhaps help.

What was the procedure for the children on the Kindertransport?

They’d be queuing around the block and we’d rapidly become a nation that existed to fund it’s asylum system.

ydoethur

Scott_xP said:

...

What about Jas Athwal's?

Oh, no, I forgot, they're not fit for human habitation.

Northern_Al

Impressively, Genesis foresaw this back in 1973:

The Battle of Epping Forest,
It's the Battle of Epping Forest,
Right outside your door.
You ain't seen nothing like it.
No, you ain't seen nothing like it,
Not since the Civil War.

JohnLilburne

Sean_F said:

Malmesbury said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

One fascinating bit, if you have a dark sense of humour, is reading about how lawyers involved in planning the Holocaust were concerned about where the victims would die. Quite a lot of insurance polices were voided by killing them in a different country to their home country. Which saved the German insurance companies lots.

The mentality required to follow the law on the insurance policies and yet....

In "Conspiracy" nobody present really objects to the principle of mass killings of non-German Jews, but there is very heated argument about the legal definition of who actually is a German Jew (do quarter or half-Jews count) , and what happens, in terms of divorce mechanisms and issuing death certificates, if non-Jewish spouses are married to German Jews.

Have you been to the Haus am Grosser Wannsee? Chilling. And in a really nice area outside Berlin which makes it worse, somehow

AnneJGP

numbertwelve said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

And the reason labour has to stop the boats to change the narrative

Yes, here's hoping.

Half of Reform's support is driven by racism is the gloomy take but the sunnier one (which I always try to go with) is that half of it isn't.

So some (perhaps many) of the latter can be peeled off depending on developments between now and the GE.

I know we'd both like to see that, me from a Lab perspective and you from a Con one.

I am perfectly happy with legal immigration but like many others am wholly opposed to the boats

Stop the boats and you remove the toxicity

It may require us to temporarily leave the ECHR, but this is becoming far more widely supported including in the labour party

I’ve said before, if Labour can’t get modest welfare cuts through the Commons then I will really believe them voting to derogate from/ leave the ECHR when I see it.

It’s just not in your regular Labour backbencher’s language.

If Labour do get some welfare cuts through, will they apply to immigrants as well or is there some odd law that prohibits it?

HYUFD

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

You get the dissonance nicely shown in some of the Philip Kerr cycle of novels about Bernie Gunther - especially during Gunther's service on the Eastern Front. The contrast with the respect for the law and what was happening ...

As a young man, one quote that had a profound impact on me and made me a Conservative and makes me recoil from the modern day Tory party is this one, Mrs Thatcher would be disgusted at the modern day Tory party.

‘The legal system we have and the rule of law are far more responsible for our traditional liberties than any system of one man one vote. Any country or government which wants to proceed towards tyranny starts to undermine legal rights and undermine the law.’

It is Tories who took this to court, Reform just backed the protests.

There will be another court case in October which will decide if the use of the hotel in Epping to house asylum seekers is a material change of use from its being a hotel such that the council will then be able to block it having planning permission

DavidL

HYUFD said:

Judge Lucy Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election win of 2029.

You heard it here first!

Note too 35% thinking the Connolly sentence was too harsh may be a minority view but above the current 30% Reform voteshare

I think it was much too harsh and the Appeal Court should have intervened, whatever the motivation of the Judge at first instance. And I would never vote Reform so I don't know what that does to your theory.

HYUFD

numbertwelve said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

And the reason labour has to stop the boats to change the narrative

Yes, here's hoping.

Half of Reform's support is driven by racism is the gloomy take but the sunnier one (which I always try to go with) is that half of it isn't.

So some (perhaps many) of the latter can be peeled off depending on developments between now and the GE.

I know we'd both like to see that, me from a Lab perspective and you from a Con one.

I am perfectly happy with legal immigration but like many others am wholly opposed to the boats

Stop the boats and you remove the toxicity

It may require us to temporarily leave the ECHR, but this is becoming far more widely supported including in the labour party

I’ve said before, if Labour can’t get modest welfare cuts through the Commons then I will really believe them voting to derogate from/ leave the ECHR when I see it.

It’s just not in your regular Labour backbencher’s language.

Nor their voters, 75% of Labour voters think the UK should remain a member of the ECHR as do 75% of LDs.

72% of Reform voters want to leave the ECHR though as do 54% of Tories

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/international/survey-results/daily/2025/06/06/7bca7/1

HYUFD

DavidL said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Lucy Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election win of 2029.

You heard it here first!

Note too 35% thinking the Connolly sentence was too harsh may be a minority view but above the current 30% Reform voteshare

I think it was much too harsh and the Appeal Court should have intervened, whatever the motivation of the Judge at first instance. And I would never vote Reform so I don't know what that does to your theory.

Shows it is certainly not fatal to Reform's electoral prospects opposing Connolly's sentence

Carnyx

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Northern_Al said:

Malmesbury said:

Northern_Al said:

Funnily enough, many, many years ago I stayed in the Bell Hotel, Epping, for several days, on business.

I have to report that it was such a dump that me any my colleagues threatened to riot if we were ever put up there again.

Interesting. Colleagues who stayed at the Britannia Hotel in Canary Wharf threatened all sorts - apparently it was the worst hotel they had ever stayed at for business.

Britannia Hotels have a deserved reputation for awfulness. I stayed in one in Manchester that was indescribably awful - absolutely filthy. No surprise if they tout for business other than paying guests.

The worst I ever encountered was the Skean Dhu Hotel outside Aberdeen. The locals believed that it was built as a prison but rejected on human rights grounds.

Britannia don't seem to have improved, or at least they haven't overtaken their competitors.

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/uk-hotel-chains/article/hotel-star-ratings-explained-a0bgV3M8kfx2

And some of us might like toi see this explanation:

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/uk-hotel-chains/article/hotel-star-ratings-explained-a0bgV3M8kfx2

"4 star hotel (all of the above, plus...)
Very good social skills and anticipation of individual guests' needs evident
Booking confirmation provided by email/text or letter from hotel (not only from third party booking site)
Assistance with luggage offered on arrival and advertised as available for departure
Laundry and possibly dry cleaning service provided and advertised with prices
Courteous, unobtrusive and polite restaurant staff demonstrate very good levels of food, beverage and wine product knowledge and service skills
Restaurant staff demonstrate proactive service, anticipating customer requirements
Table service advertised and available on request at breakfast
Room service should be provided and delivered to the room where there is a market need
All bedrooms with a higher degree of spaciousness
Individually controlled thermostatic heating operable 24-hours"

Wrong linky in No. 1. https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/uk-hotel-chains/article/best-and-worst-uk-hotel-chains-aaVVF4u1jZpe

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

You get the dissonance nicely shown in some of the Philip Kerr cycle of novels about Bernie Gunther - especially during Gunther's service on the Eastern Front. The contrast with the respect for the law and what was happening ...

As a young man, one quote that had a profound impact on me and made me a Conservative and makes me recoil from the modern day Tory party is this one, Mrs Thatcher would be disgusted at the modern day Tory party.

‘The legal system we have and the rule of law are far more responsible for our traditional liberties than any system of one man one vote. Any country or government which wants to proceed towards tyranny starts to undermine legal rights and undermine the law.’

It is Tories who took this to court, Reform just backed the protests.

There will be another court case in October which will decide if the use of the hotel in Epping to house asylum seekers is a material change of use from its being a hotel such that the council will then be able to block it having planning permission

You seem to misunderstand the law

The question is whether planning is needed for the change of use and if the court decides it is then the planning department will need to consider the issue and impose any restrictions if they are compatible with the planning law

It does not follow Epping can block the planning just they would need to make a planning decision

HYUFD

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

Freisler of course ended up being killed by allied bombers when he did not go to the shelter early enough during an air raid and stayed to pick up some files

ydoethur

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

You get the dissonance nicely shown in some of the Philip Kerr cycle of novels about Bernie Gunther - especially during Gunther's service on the Eastern Front. The contrast with the respect for the law and what was happening ...

As a young man, one quote that had a profound impact on me and made me a Conservative and makes me recoil from the modern day Tory party is this one, Mrs Thatcher would be disgusted at the modern day Tory party.

‘The legal system we have and the rule of law are far more responsible for our traditional liberties than any system of one man one vote. Any country or government which wants to proceed towards tyranny starts to undermine legal rights and undermine the law.’

It is Tories who took this to court, Reform just backed the protests.

There will be another court case in October which will decide if the use of the hotel in Epping to house asylum seekers is a material change of use from its being a hotel such that the council will then be able to block it having planning permission

The Tories taking their own policy to court on the grounds that it is unlawful is quite impressive.

Makes Trump's decision to thwart all Biden's efforts to crack down on border crossings and then blaming him for not cracking down on border crossings look amateurish by comparison.

DavidL

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

Freisler of course ended up being killed by allied bombers when he did not go to the shelter early enough during an air raid and stayed to pick up some files

There's a moral in there somewhere.

HYUFD

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

You get the dissonance nicely shown in some of the Philip Kerr cycle of novels about Bernie Gunther - especially during Gunther's service on the Eastern Front. The contrast with the respect for the law and what was happening ...

As a young man, one quote that had a profound impact on me and made me a Conservative and makes me recoil from the modern day Tory party is this one, Mrs Thatcher would be disgusted at the modern day Tory party.

‘The legal system we have and the rule of law are far more responsible for our traditional liberties than any system of one man one vote. Any country or government which wants to proceed towards tyranny starts to undermine legal rights and undermine the law.’

It is Tories who took this to court, Reform just backed the protests.

There will be another court case in October which will decide if the use of the hotel in Epping to house asylum seekers is a material change of use from its being a hotel such that the council will then be able to block it having planning permission

You seem to misunderstand the law

The question is whether planning is needed for the change of use and if the court decides it is then the planning department will need to consider the issue and impose any restrictions if they are compatible with the planning law

It does not follow Epping can block the planning just they would need to make a planning decision

It hasn't been decided if its housing asylum seekers is a change of use yet from its role as a hotel before, if the court does decide that then yes planning permission would be needed from the Council and the planning cttee could refuse it

Carnyx

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

You get the dissonance nicely shown in some of the Philip Kerr cycle of novels about Bernie Gunther - especially during Gunther's service on the Eastern Front. The contrast with the respect for the law and what was happening ...

As a young man, one quote that had a profound impact on me and made me a Conservative and makes me recoil from the modern day Tory party is this one, Mrs Thatcher would be disgusted at the modern day Tory party.

‘The legal system we have and the rule of law are far more responsible for our traditional liberties than any system of one man one vote. Any country or government which wants to proceed towards tyranny starts to undermine legal rights and undermine the law.’

It is Tories who took this to court, Reform just backed the protests.

There will be another court case in October which will decide if the use of the hotel in Epping to house asylum seekers is a material change of use from its being a hotel such that the council will then be able to block it having planning permission

You seem to misunderstand the law

The question is whether planning is needed for the change of use and if the court decides it is then the plann9ng department will need to consider the issue and impose any restrictions if they are compatible with the planning law

It does not follow Epping can block the planning just they would need to make a planning decision

And someone has at some point to make an application which satisfies Epping (or not as the case may be). No application, no decision. But this has to be done *after* the court case in October is decided against the change of use, does it not? To make it now would be to implicitly admit that the original change of use was dodgy, no?

HYUFD

ydoethur said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

You get the dissonance nicely shown in some of the Philip Kerr cycle of novels about Bernie Gunther - especially during Gunther's service on the Eastern Front. The contrast with the respect for the law and what was happening ...

As a young man, one quote that had a profound impact on me and made me a Conservative and makes me recoil from the modern day Tory party is this one, Mrs Thatcher would be disgusted at the modern day Tory party.

‘The legal system we have and the rule of law are far more responsible for our traditional liberties than any system of one man one vote. Any country or government which wants to proceed towards tyranny starts to undermine legal rights and undermine the law.’

It is Tories who took this to court, Reform just backed the protests.

There will be another court case in October which will decide if the use of the hotel in Epping to house asylum seekers is a material change of use from its being a hotel such that the council will then be able to block it having planning permission

The Tories taking their own policy to court on the grounds that it is unlawful is quite impressive.

Makes Trump's decision to thwart all Biden's efforts to crack down on border crossings and then blaming him for not cracking down on border crossings look amateurish by comparison.

The Tory government stopped the Bell being used to house asylum seekers early last year

Big_G_NorthWales

Carnyx said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

You get the dissonance nicely shown in some of the Philip Kerr cycle of novels about Bernie Gunther - especially during Gunther's service on the Eastern Front. The contrast with the respect for the law and what was happening ...

As a young man, one quote that had a profound impact on me and made me a Conservative and makes me recoil from the modern day Tory party is this one, Mrs Thatcher would be disgusted at the modern day Tory party.

‘The legal system we have and the rule of law are far more responsible for our traditional liberties than any system of one man one vote. Any country or government which wants to proceed towards tyranny starts to undermine legal rights and undermine the law.’

It is Tories who took this to court, Reform just backed the protests.

There will be another court case in October which will decide if the use of the hotel in Epping to house asylum seekers is a material change of use from its being a hotel such that the council will then be able to block it having planning permission

You seem to misunderstand the law

The question is whether planning is needed for the change of use and if the court decides it is then the plann9ng department will need to consider the issue and impose any restrictions if they are compatible with the planning law

It does not follow Epping can block the planning just they would need to make a planning decision

And someone has at some point to make an application which satisfies Epping (or not as the case may be). No application, no decision. But this has to be done *after* the court case in October is decided against the change of use, does it not? To make it now would be to implicitly admit that the original change of use was dodgy, no?

The judge clearly criticised Epping on ignoring an initial plannings request despite their statutory duty to reply within 8 weeks, and of course it would be nonsense to do anything before the High Court decision in October which may even conclude planning is not required in this case

Epping do not come out of this well despite @HYUFD protestations

rcs1000

Sean_F said:

Stuartinromford said:

numbertwelve said:

This again comes back to my argument about the polling on the Reform deportation plans which was also a header on here a couple of days back.

There does appear to be a pattern that specific Reform talking points and policies etc have minority appeal when polled; but yet Reform are doing pretty well in VI all things considered. I still think a large part of the next GE is going to come down to ‘feels’ for want of a better word, and if people stick with the mainstream for fear of something worse or feel so fed up they want to roll the dice on something new.

Reform are top of the heap, but it's not that impressive a heap by historical standards. John Major got 31% and a landslide defeat in 1997.

About a third of the electorate are currently full-on Faragists. It's what the other two thirds do that matter. Are they going to let him in, or put a lot of pegs on a lot of noses at the next election?

The figures that count are the respective proportions that vote right, and vote left. So long as the right wing vote is c.48%, and so long as Reform are winning the majority of that vote, it's hard to see how they don't finish with a plurality, at least, in seats.

That is right, albeit with the proviso that the left and centre left vote is quite efficiently distributed: there simply aren't that many seats where the LibDems compete with Labour. I don't think that's true of Reform v the Conservatives.

Mexicanpete

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

And the reason labour has to stop the boats to change the narrative

Yes, here's hoping.

Half of Reform's support is driven by racism is the gloomy take but the sunnier one (which I always try to go with) is that half of it isn't.

So some (perhaps many) of the latter can be peeled off depending on developments between now and the GE.

I know we'd both like to see that, me from a Lab perspective and you from a Con one.

I am perfectly happy with legal immigration but like many others am wholly opposed to the boats

Stop the boats and you remove the toxicity

It may require us to temporarily leave the ECHR, but this is becoming far more widely supported including in the labour party

I am generally comfortable with immigration (and emigration) which is why freedom of movement was fine by me. Although I can see that low skilled labour (poorly paid teachers leaving Poland to become better paid binmen for example) from the accession countries were mismanaged by the Blair Government leading directly to Brexit. Mr Johnson's legal immigration post 2019 (to provide enough people to fill highly skilled gaps in the Labour market) on the other hand was an almost entirety positive enterprise.

Creating a legal route to acquire asylum seeker status would stop the boats overnight.

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

You get the dissonance nicely shown in some of the Philip Kerr cycle of novels about Bernie Gunther - especially during Gunther's service on the Eastern Front. The contrast with the respect for the law and what was happening ...

As a young man, one quote that had a profound impact on me and made me a Conservative and makes me recoil from the modern day Tory party is this one, Mrs Thatcher would be disgusted at the modern day Tory party.

‘The legal system we have and the rule of law are far more responsible for our traditional liberties than any system of one man one vote. Any country or government which wants to proceed towards tyranny starts to undermine legal rights and undermine the law.’

It is Tories who took this to court, Reform just backed the protests.

There will be another court case in October which will decide if the use of the hotel in Epping to house asylum seekers is a material change of use from its being a hotel such that the council will then be able to block it having planning permission

You seem to misunderstand the law

The question is whether planning is needed for the change of use and if the court decides it is then the planning department will need to consider the issue and impose any restrictions if they are compatible with the planning law

It does not follow Epping can block the planning just they would need to make a planning decision

It hasn't been decided if its housing asylum seekers is a change of use yet from its role as a hotel before, if the court does decide that then yes planning permission would be needed from the Council and the planning cttee could refuse it

You are stating the obvious, but you earlier implied Epping could block the permission but that decision is a planning matter which to be blocked would need legitimate reasons

Nigelb

I would have predicted this tendency .. but nothing like these numbers.

I will see if I can write about this, but the split is really major among young Dems vs young Republicans. The divide declines heavily with age.

For voters under 30 re: "would you cut family off for opposing political views"...

GOP: 77-23 "No"
Dems: 74-26 "Yes"
https://x.com/lxeagle17/status/1961458072729334197

Luckyguy1983

Sean_F said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Lucy Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election win of 2029.

You heard it here first!

Note too 35% thinking the Connolly sentence was too harsh may be a minority view but above the current 30% Reform voteshare

40% when you exclude don't knows.

That polling is grotesquely flawed in a way even a five year old could identify. The equivalent of 'about right' is not 'don't know'.

Big_G_NorthWales

Mexicanpete said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kinabalu said:

So almost half of RUK supporters think their party - that's the party leading the polls atm - should "associate itself" with a hardcore racist convicted of inciting violence against asylum seekers.

That's something to think about, isn't it.

And the reason labour has to stop the boats to change the narrative

Yes, here's hoping.

Half of Reform's support is driven by racism is the gloomy take but the sunnier one (which I always try to go with) is that half of it isn't.

So some (perhaps many) of the latter can be peeled off depending on developments between now and the GE.

I know we'd both like to see that, me from a Lab perspective and you from a Con one.

I am perfectly happy with legal immigration but like many others am wholly opposed to the boats

Stop the boats and you remove the toxicity

It may require us to temporarily leave the ECHR, but this is becoming far more widely supported including in the labour party

I am generally comfortable with immigration (and emigration) which is why freedom of movement was fine by me. Although I can see that low skilled labour (poorly paid teachers leaving Poland to become better paid binmen for example) from the accession countries were mismanaged by the Blair Government leading directly to Brexit. Mr Johnson's legal immigration post 2019 (to provide enough people to fill highly skilled gaps in the Labour market) on the other hand was an almost entirety positive enterprise.

Creating a legal route to acquire asylum seeker status would stop the boats overnight.

Not sure about your last point but otherwise agree

PJH

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

You get the dissonance nicely shown in some of the Philip Kerr cycle of novels about Bernie Gunther - especially during Gunther's service on the Eastern Front. The contrast with the respect for the law and what was happening ...

As a young man, one quote that had a profound impact on me and made me a Conservative and makes me recoil from the modern day Tory party is this one, Mrs Thatcher would be disgusted at the modern day Tory party.

‘The legal system we have and the rule of law are far more responsible for our traditional liberties than any system of one man one vote. Any country or government which wants to proceed towards tyranny starts to undermine legal rights and undermine the law.’

It is Tories who took this to court, Reform just backed the protests.

There will be another court case in October which will decide if the use of the hotel in Epping to house asylum seekers is a material change of use from its being a hotel such that the council will then be able to block it having planning permission

I find it odd that supposedly free market types who would like to see swathers of regulations abolished seem to want to restrict the ability of a private company to conduct business with whomever it likes.

If I want to block book a hotel for my family and friends for a weekend, I believe that is allowed. If I want to stay in a hotel indefinitely, I think that is allowed too - is there any restriction on the number of days I can stay consecutively before I'm deemed to be a permanent resident? Does it matter? I think the Major was a resident at Fawlty Towers, has there been a change since the 70s? Assuming it is legal to block book a hotel, and stay indefinitely, why shouldn't both be allowed? I don't see why that should be a planning issue.

I would have thought, in any case, that a Hotel was generally more detrimental to an area than an HMO. I can say this as someone who has lived in a road with both - there was certainly more noise and activity from the hotel than from any of the HMOs. And if the bar is no longer open, that is an improvement too. The only objection seems to be the people who are staying there, which in my opinion should be nobody's business except the proprietor's.

Andy_JS

Nigelb said:

I would have predicted this tendency .. but nothing like these numbers.

I will see if I can write about this, but the split is really major among young Dems vs young Republicans. The divide declines heavily with age.

For voters under 30 re: "would you cut family off for opposing political views"...

GOP: 77-23 "No"
Dems: 74-26 "Yes"
https://x.com/lxeagle17/status/1961458072729334197

Not surprised at all.

Leon

Luckyguy1983 said:

Sean_F said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Lucy Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election win of 2029.

You heard it here first!

Note too 35% thinking the Connolly sentence was too harsh may be a minority view but above the current 30% Reform voteshare

40% when you exclude don't knows.

That polling is grotesquely flawed in a way even a five year old could identify. The equivalent of 'about right' is not 'don't know'.

Luke Tryl is simply refusing to answer why they framed this polling question in the bizarre way they did. Because many are asking him

HYUFD

PJH said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Judge Connolly, the first appointment of PM Farage to his new 'Peoples Supreme Court' after his general election wing of 2029.

You heard it here first!

She’d be the worse judge since Roland Freisler.

The disturbing thing about Freisler - and other Nazi jurists - is that they were all highly qualified. He had a doctorate in law, from a good university. Which in turn, made it very easy for many of them to move seamlessly back into civilian life at the war's end.

Remember that bit in Conspiracy, when Klopfer asks how many lawyers are present, and more than half raise their hands.

About 20 years ago I read an interview with a documentary maker and he was planning on doing a dramatisation of the People’s Court after the July 20th plot but decided not to because when they read the transcripts they thought the audience would assume scenes like this were an exaggeration.

At one point, Freisler yelled at Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, who was trying to hold up his trousers after being purposely given old, oversized and beltless clothing: "You dirty old man, why do you keep fiddling with your trousers?"

You get the dissonance nicely shown in some of the Philip Kerr cycle of novels about Bernie Gunther - especially during Gunther's service on the Eastern Front. The contrast with the respect for the law and what was happening ...

As a young man, one quote that had a profound impact on me and made me a Conservative and makes me recoil from the modern day Tory party is this one, Mrs Thatcher would be disgusted at the modern day Tory party.

‘The legal system we have and the rule of law are far more responsible for our traditional liberties than any system of one man one vote. Any country or government which wants to proceed towards tyranny starts to undermine legal rights and undermine the law.’

It is Tories who took this to court, Reform just backed the protests.

There will be another court case in October which will decide if the use of the hotel in Epping to house asylum seekers is a material change of use from its being a hotel such that the council will then be able to block it having planning permission

I find it odd that supposedly free market types who would like to see swathers of regulations abolished seem to want to restrict the ability of a private company to conduct business with whomever it likes.

If I want to block book a hotel for my family and friends for a weekend, I believe that is allowed. If I want to stay in a hotel indefinitely, I think that is allowed too - is there any restriction on the number of days I can stay consecutively before I'm deemed to be a permanent resident? Does it matter? I think the Major was a resident at Fawlty Towers, has there been a change since the 70s? Assuming it is legal to block book a hotel, and stay indefinitely, why shouldn't both be allowed? I don't see why that should be a planning issue.

I would have thought, in any case, that a Hotel was generally more detrimental to an area than an HMO. I can say this as someone who has lived in a road with both - there was certainly more noise and activity from the hotel than from any of the HMOs. And if the bar is no longer open, that is an improvement too. The only objection seems to be the people who are staying there, which in my opinion should be nobody's business except the proprietor's.

Those who are most hostile to asylum seekers and immigrants tend to be nationalist rightwingers or traditional conservatives, not liberal or libertarian free marketeers. See also the tensions between Musk, Ramaswamay and the Tech Bros who want skilled migrants and MAGA's white nationalists.

Using home office funds to become effectively a migrant hostel not a hotel also effectively makes you a public sector body no longer a private company needing bills from paying members of the public rather than taxpayer funds to remain open

HYUFD

Nigelb said:

I would have predicted this tendency .. but nothing like these numbers.

I will see if I can write about this, but the split is really major among young Dems vs young Republicans. The divide declines heavily with age.

For voters under 30 re: "would you cut family off for opposing political views"...

GOP: 77-23 "No"
Dems: 74-26 "Yes"
https://x.com/lxeagle17/status/1961458072729334197

That is both sad and somewhat absurd, family should be your closest bond whatever their political views.

Rather like Bluesky which is now basically a liberal left echo chamber some will now only live and work in urban left liberal enclaves and even only socialise or discuss online with left liberals. It also makes nations even more divided than they are