Rael Braverman resigns from Reform with immediate effect
Do we know why?
I am not aware of the reason but no doubt all will be revealed in due course
Wouldn't William of Ockham be saying "Mr Yusuf dissed Mr Braverman's missus, and it's as simple as that"? Except probably more classily, what with him being a Franciscan friar.
(There is a genuine challenge for Reform here. If they become a home for disillusioned Tories, they can't help but take on some of the blame for the state we are collectively in. If they don't- and I don't think that's the Farage/Yusuf plan and they're probably right to be careful- they risk being horribly short on people capable of running a government.)
Rael was posting yesterday 'next 24 hours will be interesting' and ticking clocks. Maybe somethings about to come out, but plenty of 'talk' about dissatisfaction with Yusuf behind the scenes. Farage has been very quiet on the scandal. A short video response and a retweet of Tices article
But the video was impressive, marred only by a little partisan sniping at the end
He delivered a punchy analysis better than anyone, in 2 minutes. He is good at this shit
The video is fine. Id just expect him to have been more visible on this - an editorial maybe
It was better than fine, it was the best analysis I've seen - by anyone - in terms of bringing home the political importance of the story, and why it REALLY matters, and why it is so outrageous. Better than any journo on TV or in the press. It is quite a skill he has
As for follow up, I imagine he is waiting to see what else emerges, which is probably a sensible move. Because
1. It's still deeply murky, there is so much we do not know which is slowly emerging
2. The Mail says it is now fighting more injunctions, which may expire next week, which presumably conceal more embarrassing shit from the imbecile government. Better to keep his ammo dry?
Afghan story currently ninth most read story on the BBC news website.
Beaten by Emma Watson, Trans, an advert bring banned, hosepipe ban, inflation.
Not surprised. It has some of the qualities of a story which is important and depressing (see Leon passim on this) but doesn't have the quality of going anywhere interesting or engaging or empathetic. I can't see the next 10 installments of this one, nor the counter full of popcorn.
For good or ill Afghanistan remains a far away country of which we know little. All we know is that we should never have gone near it either in the 19th century or the 21st.
What a surprising take from Mister "Labour are going to win in 2028" Snoozefest
Starmer got a bit lucky with the rebellion over welfare cuts. Imagine if a couple of weeks after voting to take £5bn off disabled people, it came out they had agreed £7bn for thr Afghan scheme.
Would Healey and Hoyle suffice, or do you need Starmer too? Fantastic opportunity for your team. Will Kemi take the win?
Why does Healey have to go?
Because he's sat on the story for a year, and (for now) appears to have continued to approve the super injunction. He certainly needs to explain himself better than he has so far.
As much as it makes me self-loathe I have to defend Healey if the advice he was getting from civil servants and/or government lawyers was along the lines of “you need to keep this super injunction and shell out loads of money or people will die” then what else is he supposed to do? Is he supposed to say “sorry guys, I know much more about the situation in my one year in charge than you do and I know the law better than government lawyers so drop it now”?
We get angry about the idea of Ministers making decisions based on their own prejudices or interests and ignoring advice so if Healey has followed what he can only consider the best advice then he can’t be blamed.
What is vital is that, if the advice from CC and legal was to continue (to both parties over the period) then how do we avoid bad advice, is there independent oversight etc to stop such a situation in the future.
No no no
The government as recently as June was eager to maintain the super injunction and indeed EXPAND the scheme to even more Afghans. Thus spending £7bn at least
They also connived in keeping the figures out of the ONS migration stats and it was the Labour government that decided to deliberately lie to the public, in the Commons, as to why all these afghans are arriving. They wanted to set a “false narrative”
This was one reason the judge lost his cool and decided it had all gone too far. Absolutely outrageous contempt for electors and democracy and a sacking offence in itself
What the F are you doing defending these people. They all need to go
I’m not defending these people, it’s a shit show by both parties but it also makes me wonder about the effects/power of legal and civil service advice over democratically elected politicians and will be interested what comes out.
If you are a minister/government and your own lawyers are telling you that you really have to continue doing something for important legal reasons the are you going to just pull the pin and say “bollocks I’m going public whatever the legal implications”?
BTW the minister said on Today that the figures weren’t kept out of the immigrations Stats and the reporter was wrong - brave move and resigning matter (hahaha) if he is lying.
I’d wager money he’s lying - in some form
Your defence of these people is pitiful and grotesque
I'll wager money your numbers are balls too.
But I’m the one quoting the judge in the transcript. Who seems the only reliable actor here. All the other numbers - which vary wildly from £400m to £800m to £2bn to £7bn to £10bn (and up) come from politicians with an agenda, and we KNOW these people are lying. They admitted it. “We want to set a false narrative as cover”
Why is the judge's number authoritative in any sense ? He has no powers of audit, and no more information than he has been given, so it's a number which came second hand from the politicians whose numbers you don't believe. He can clearly speak with authority on the legal position, but has little more idea than do you on what this is costing.
FWIW, the cost estimate for this particular mess is around an order of magnitude less https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg8zy78787o The government also revealed on Tuesday: The MoD believes 600 Afghan soldiers included in the leak, plus 1,800 of their family members, are still in Afghanistan The scheme is being closed down, but relocation offers already made to those who remain in Afghanistan will be honoured The secret scheme - officially called the Afghan Relocation Route - has cost £400m so far, and is expected to cost a further £400m to £450m The breach was committed mistakenly by an unnamed official at the MoD People whose details were leaked were only informed on Tuesday
As I noted upthread, the sensible way to deal with this is for the PAC to get to work and ferret out the actual numbers.
Your syllogism "everyone is lying, so I am right" is a load of nonsense.
And yet you blindly trust the new numbers given by a government which ADMITS IT IS LYING ON THIS EXACT ISSUE
You’re never the smartest but this is a new level of intellectual mediocrity
Are you seriously of such low IQ that you're incapable of comprehending some quite simple posts of mine ?
I've repeatedly said that the only way to get to the true figures is for them to be ferreted out. The Commons Pubic Accounts Committee is one of the better bodies for the task, as it has a pretty good record, and won't take a dozen years to get a result. I'm entirely open to better suggestions, of which you have produced ... approximately zero.
Get them in court and sling them all in jail. For a long long time. But first sack the woke lawyers and judges so we make sure the courts are hard and fair - but hard
I’m done with “inquiries” and “committees” and all this self serving, bullshitting nonsense where no one ever pays a price for anything. The Nu10k. They all need to be in prison; they are destroying the country and they seem to be doing it deliberately. They cannot even defend our beaches from invaders
I want a revolution (peaceful, please). I want to see lots of pro politicians facing 20 year jail terms. I want to tear it all down and start again. I’m done
Yes, you just want a Leon dictatorship. You keep your fantasies; the rest of us will struggle on.
His ceaseless twattish hysteria enlightens no-one and is just tiresome. We just know that whatever is next week's story will also be the worst thing ever and also presage the end of times, rinsed and repeated over and over until Farage doesn't become prime minister in four years time ...
On the other hand, I get paid for my “ ceaseless twattish hysteria” and you DON’T get paid for your bizarre if touching dog-based sex travelogues
In other news I’ve noticed that my stalker has just published a Spectator article comparing the British to hillbillies. The man pilfers without shame
Another of your logic fails.
a) @IanB2 doesn't get paid here, but then neither do you and you post a hell of a lot more.
b) You get paid for writing elsewhere, but then others get paid for doing other stuff elsewhere.
Your point is?
Equally to the point, I don't need to be paid to be travelling about, and have the freedom and time to linger and learn that being on a whistle stop assignment will never offer.
Since he's so sadly money driven, perhaps we could organise a whip round for him to **** off?
I don’t need to be paid. I would travel for free because I love it. But the happy fact is, I DO get paid, indeed sometimes I get paid to do insanely luxurious travel in £6000 a night hotels
It’s dark and lonely work, but someone has to do it. Etc
And had you even average intelligence, insight and understanding, just think what a wise fellow you might have become.
I do sometimes think Would I have had a more fulfilling life and career if I'd gone into a job like what @IanB2 did, accountancy, or quantity surveying, or whatever the fuck it was, and then I think HAHAHAHAHAHAH LOL NO
Becoming Karl Pilkington with added booze and without the cameras is hardly an achievement.
To have travelled the world and yet still have the views of someone who has never been more than ten miles from Jaywick is a truly tragic fail.
What was it you did? Chartered management or something? Widget supply analysis? Now you wander the world, tragically alone, trafficking your dog across borders like the Humbert Humbert of pet husbandry
Do you think this is a life well spent?
'tragically alone' - Do you never read what you write? Does it come as a surprise to you if you read it after you have typed it?
Rael Braverman resigns from Reform with immediate effect
Do we know why?
I am not aware of the reason but no doubt all will be revealed in due course
Wouldn't William of Ockham be saying "Mr Yusuf dissed Mr Braverman's missus, and it's as simple as that"? Except probably more classily, what with him being a Franciscan friar.
(There is a genuine challenge for Reform here. If they become a home for disillusioned Tories, they can't help but take on some of the blame for the state we are collectively in. If they don't- and I don't think that's the Farage/Yusuf plan and they're probably right to be careful- they risk being horribly short on people capable of running a government.)
Rael was posting yesterday 'next 24 hours will be interesting' and ticking clocks. Maybe somethings about to come out, but plenty of 'talk' about dissatisfaction with Yusuf behind the scenes. Farage has been very quiet on the scandal. A short video response and a retweet of Tices article
But the video was impressive, marred only by a little partisan sniping at the end
He delivered a punchy analysis better than anyone, in 2 minutes. He is good at this shit
The video is fine. Id just expect him to have been more visible on this - an editorial maybe
It was better than fine, it was the best analysis I've seen - by anyone - in terms of bringing home the political importance of the story, and why it REALLY matters, and why it is so outrageous. Better than any journo on TV or in the press. It is quite a skill he has
As for follow up, I imagine he is waiting to see what else emerges, which is probably a sensible move. Because
1. It's still deeply murky, there is so much we do not know which is slowly emerging
2. The Mail says it is now fighting more injunctions, which may expire next week, which presumably conceal more embarrassing shit from the imbecile government. Better to keep his ammo dry?
He will want to know whether the next culprits to be revealed are friend or foe.
Starmer got a bit lucky with the rebellion over welfare cuts. Imagine if a couple of weeks after voting to take £5bn off disabled people, it came out they had agreed £7bn for thr Afghan scheme.
Would Healey and Hoyle suffice, or do you need Starmer too? Fantastic opportunity for your team. Will Kemi take the win?
Why does Healey have to go?
Because he's sat on the story for a year, and (for now) appears to have continued to approve the super injunction. He certainly needs to explain himself better than he has so far.
As much as it makes me self-loathe I have to defend Healey if the advice he was getting from civil servants and/or government lawyers was along the lines of “you need to keep this super injunction and shell out loads of money or people will die” then what else is he supposed to do? Is he supposed to say “sorry guys, I know much more about the situation in my one year in charge than you do and I know the law better than government lawyers so drop it now”?
We get angry about the idea of Ministers making decisions based on their own prejudices or interests and ignoring advice so if Healey has followed what he can only consider the best advice then he can’t be blamed.
What is vital is that, if the advice from CC and legal was to continue (to both parties over the period) then how do we avoid bad advice, is there independent oversight etc to stop such a situation in the future.
No no no
The government as recently as June was eager to maintain the super injunction and indeed EXPAND the scheme to even more Afghans. Thus spending £7bn at least
They also connived in keeping the figures out of the ONS migration stats and it was the Labour government that decided to deliberately lie to the public, in the Commons, as to why all these afghans are arriving. They wanted to set a “false narrative”
This was one reason the judge lost his cool and decided it had all gone too far. Absolutely outrageous contempt for electors and democracy and a sacking offence in itself
What the F are you doing defending these people. They all need to go
I’m not defending these people, it’s a shit show by both parties but it also makes me wonder about the effects/power of legal and civil service advice over democratically elected politicians and will be interested what comes out.
If you are a minister/government and your own lawyers are telling you that you really have to continue doing something for important legal reasons the are you going to just pull the pin and say “bollocks I’m going public whatever the legal implications”?
BTW the minister said on Today that the figures weren’t kept out of the immigrations Stats and the reporter was wrong - brave move and resigning matter (hahaha) if he is lying.
I’d wager money he’s lying - in some form
Your defence of these people is pitiful and grotesque
I'll wager money your numbers are balls too.
But I’m the one quoting the judge in the transcript. Who seems the only reliable actor here. All the other numbers - which vary wildly from £400m to £800m to £2bn to £7bn to £10bn (and up) come from politicians with an agenda, and we KNOW these people are lying. They admitted it. “We want to set a false narrative as cover”
Why is the judge's number authoritative in any sense ? He has no powers of audit, and no more information than he has been given, so it's a number which came second hand from the politicians whose numbers you don't believe. He can clearly speak with authority on the legal position, but has little more idea than do you on what this is costing.
FWIW, the cost estimate for this particular mess is around an order of magnitude less https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg8zy78787o The government also revealed on Tuesday: The MoD believes 600 Afghan soldiers included in the leak, plus 1,800 of their family members, are still in Afghanistan The scheme is being closed down, but relocation offers already made to those who remain in Afghanistan will be honoured The secret scheme - officially called the Afghan Relocation Route - has cost £400m so far, and is expected to cost a further £400m to £450m The breach was committed mistakenly by an unnamed official at the MoD People whose details were leaked were only informed on Tuesday
As I noted upthread, the sensible way to deal with this is for the PAC to get to work and ferret out the actual numbers.
Your syllogism "everyone is lying, so I am right" is a load of nonsense.
And yet you blindly trust the new numbers given by a government which ADMITS IT IS LYING ON THIS EXACT ISSUE
You’re never the smartest but this is a new level of intellectual mediocrity
Are you seriously of such low IQ that you're incapable of comprehending some quite simple posts of mine ?
I've repeatedly said that the only way to get to the true figures is for them to be ferreted out. The Commons Pubic Accounts Committee is one of the better bodies for the task, as it has a pretty good record, and won't take a dozen years to get a result. I'm entirely open to better suggestions, of which you have produced ... approximately zero.
Get them in court and sling them all in jail. For a long long time. But first sack the woke lawyers and judges so we make sure the courts are hard and fair - but hard
I’m done with “inquiries” and “committees” and all this self serving, bullshitting nonsense where no one ever pays a price for anything. The Nu10k. They all need to be in prison; they are destroying the country and they seem to be doing it deliberately. They cannot even defend our beaches from invaders
I want a revolution (peaceful, please). I want to see lots of pro politicians facing 20 year jail terms. I want to tear it all down and start again. I’m done
Yes, you just want a Leon dictatorship. You keep your fantasies; the rest of us will struggle on.
His ceaseless twattish hysteria enlightens no-one and is just tiresome. We just know that whatever is next week's story will also be the worst thing ever and also presage the end of times, rinsed and repeated over and over until Farage doesn't become prime minister in four years time ...
On the other hand, I get paid for my “ ceaseless twattish hysteria” and you DON’T get paid for your bizarre if touching dog-based sex travelogues
In other news I’ve noticed that my stalker has just published a Spectator article comparing the British to hillbillies. The man pilfers without shame
Another of your logic fails.
a) @IanB2 doesn't get paid here, but then neither do you and you post a hell of a lot more.
b) You get paid for writing elsewhere, but then others get paid for doing other stuff elsewhere.
Your point is?
Equally to the point, I don't need to be paid to be travelling about, and have the freedom and time to linger and learn that being on a whistle stop assignment will never offer.
Since he's so sadly money driven, perhaps we could organise a whip round for him to **** off?
I don’t need to be paid. I would travel for free because I love it. But the happy fact is, I DO get paid, indeed sometimes I get paid to do insanely luxurious travel in £6000 a night hotels
It’s dark and lonely work, but someone has to do it. Etc
And had you even average intelligence, insight and understanding, just think what a wise fellow you might have become.
I do sometimes think Would I have had a more fulfilling life and career if I'd gone into a job like what @IanB2 did, accountancy, or quantity surveying, or whatever the fuck it was, and then I think HAHAHAHAHAHAH LOL NO
Becoming Karl Pilkington with added booze and without the cameras is hardly an achievement.
To have travelled the world and yet still have the views of someone who has never been more than ten miles from Jaywick is a truly tragic fail.
What was it you did? Chartered management or something? Widget supply analysis? Now you wander the world, tragically alone, trafficking your dog across borders like the Humbert Humbert of pet husbandry
Do you think this is a life well spent?
Who would exchange a life of drudgery for one of mainlining class A and shagging minor celebrities?
Starmer got a bit lucky with the rebellion over welfare cuts. Imagine if a couple of weeks after voting to take £5bn off disabled people, it came out they had agreed £7bn for thr Afghan scheme.
Would Healey and Hoyle suffice, or do you need Starmer too? Fantastic opportunity for your team. Will Kemi take the win?
Why does Healey have to go?
Because he's sat on the story for a year, and (for now) appears to have continued to approve the super injunction. He certainly needs to explain himself better than he has so far.
As much as it makes me self-loathe I have to defend Healey if the advice he was getting from civil servants and/or government lawyers was along the lines of “you need to keep this super injunction and shell out loads of money or people will die” then what else is he supposed to do? Is he supposed to say “sorry guys, I know much more about the situation in my one year in charge than you do and I know the law better than government lawyers so drop it now”?
We get angry about the idea of Ministers making decisions based on their own prejudices or interests and ignoring advice so if Healey has followed what he can only consider the best advice then he can’t be blamed.
What is vital is that, if the advice from CC and legal was to continue (to both parties over the period) then how do we avoid bad advice, is there independent oversight etc to stop such a situation in the future.
No no no
The government as recently as June was eager to maintain the super injunction and indeed EXPAND the scheme to even more Afghans. Thus spending £7bn at least
They also connived in keeping the figures out of the ONS migration stats and it was the Labour government that decided to deliberately lie to the public, in the Commons, as to why all these afghans are arriving. They wanted to set a “false narrative”
This was one reason the judge lost his cool and decided it had all gone too far. Absolutely outrageous contempt for electors and democracy and a sacking offence in itself
What the F are you doing defending these people. They all need to go
I’m not defending these people, it’s a shit show by both parties but it also makes me wonder about the effects/power of legal and civil service advice over democratically elected politicians and will be interested what comes out.
If you are a minister/government and your own lawyers are telling you that you really have to continue doing something for important legal reasons the are you going to just pull the pin and say “bollocks I’m going public whatever the legal implications”?
BTW the minister said on Today that the figures weren’t kept out of the immigrations Stats and the reporter was wrong - brave move and resigning matter (hahaha) if he is lying.
I’d wager money he’s lying - in some form
Your defence of these people is pitiful and grotesque
I'll wager money your numbers are balls too.
But I’m the one quoting the judge in the transcript. Who seems the only reliable actor here. All the other numbers - which vary wildly from £400m to £800m to £2bn to £7bn to £10bn (and up) come from politicians with an agenda, and we KNOW these people are lying. They admitted it. “We want to set a false narrative as cover”
Why is the judge's number authoritative in any sense ? He has no powers of audit, and no more information than he has been given, so it's a number which came second hand from the politicians whose numbers you don't believe. He can clearly speak with authority on the legal position, but has little more idea than do you on what this is costing.
FWIW, the cost estimate for this particular mess is around an order of magnitude less https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg8zy78787o The government also revealed on Tuesday: The MoD believes 600 Afghan soldiers included in the leak, plus 1,800 of their family members, are still in Afghanistan The scheme is being closed down, but relocation offers already made to those who remain in Afghanistan will be honoured The secret scheme - officially called the Afghan Relocation Route - has cost £400m so far, and is expected to cost a further £400m to £450m The breach was committed mistakenly by an unnamed official at the MoD People whose details were leaked were only informed on Tuesday
As I noted upthread, the sensible way to deal with this is for the PAC to get to work and ferret out the actual numbers.
Your syllogism "everyone is lying, so I am right" is a load of nonsense.
And yet you blindly trust the new numbers given by a government which ADMITS IT IS LYING ON THIS EXACT ISSUE
You’re never the smartest but this is a new level of intellectual mediocrity
Are you seriously of such low IQ that you're incapable of comprehending some quite simple posts of mine ?
I've repeatedly said that the only way to get to the true figures is for them to be ferreted out. The Commons Pubic Accounts Committee is one of the better bodies for the task, as it has a pretty good record, and won't take a dozen years to get a result. I'm entirely open to better suggestions, of which you have produced ... approximately zero.
Get them in court and sling them all in jail. For a long long time. But first sack the woke lawyers and judges so we make sure the courts are hard and fair - but hard
I’m done with “inquiries” and “committees” and all this self serving, bullshitting nonsense where no one ever pays a price for anything. The Nu10k. They all need to be in prison; they are destroying the country and they seem to be doing it deliberately. They cannot even defend our beaches from invaders
I want a revolution (peaceful, please). I want to see lots of pro politicians facing 20 year jail terms. I want to tear it all down and start again. I’m done
Yes, you just want a Leon dictatorship. You keep your fantasies; the rest of us will struggle on.
His ceaseless twattish hysteria enlightens no-one and is just tiresome. We just know that whatever is next week's story will also be the worst thing ever and also presage the end of times, rinsed and repeated over and over until Farage doesn't become prime minister in four years time ...
On the other hand, I get paid for my “ ceaseless twattish hysteria” and you DON’T get paid for your bizarre if touching dog-based sex travelogues
In other news I’ve noticed that my stalker has just published a Spectator article comparing the British to hillbillies. The man pilfers without shame
Another of your logic fails.
a) @IanB2 doesn't get paid here, but then neither do you and you post a hell of a lot more.
b) You get paid for writing elsewhere, but then others get paid for doing other stuff elsewhere.
Your point is?
Equally to the point, I don't need to be paid to be travelling about, and have the freedom and time to linger and learn that being on a whistle stop assignment will never offer.
Since he's so sadly money driven, perhaps we could organise a whip round for him to **** off?
I don’t need to be paid. I would travel for free because I love it. But the happy fact is, I DO get paid, indeed sometimes I get paid to do insanely luxurious travel in £6000 a night hotels
It’s dark and lonely work, but someone has to do it. Etc
And had you even average intelligence, insight and understanding, just think what a wise fellow you might have become.
I do sometimes think Would I have had a more fulfilling life and career if I'd gone into a job like what @IanB2 did, accountancy, or quantity surveying, or whatever the fuck it was, and then I think HAHAHAHAHAHAH LOL NO
Becoming Karl Pilkington with added booze and without the cameras is hardly an achievement.
To have travelled the world and yet still have the views of someone who has never been more than ten miles from Jaywick is a truly tragic fail.
What was it you did? Chartered management or something? Widget supply analysis? Now you wander the world, tragically alone, trafficking your dog across borders like the Humbert Humbert of pet husbandry
Do you think this is a life well spent?
'tragically alone' - Do you never read what you write? Does it come as a surprise to you if you read it after you have typed it?
Yes, I do
And I reread ny description of @IanB2 as "the Humbert Humbert of pet husbandry, trafficking his frightened dog across frontiers" with great pleasure, and no small pride
Afghan story currently ninth most read story on the BBC news website.
Beaten by Emma Watson, Trans, an advert bring banned, hosepipe ban, inflation.
Not surprised. It has some of the qualities of a story which is important and depressing (see Leon passim on this) but doesn't have the quality of going anywhere interesting or engaging or empathetic. I can't see the next 10 installments of this one, nor the counter full of popcorn.
For good or ill Afghanistan remains a far away country of which we know little. All we know is that we should never have gone near it either in the 19th century or the 21st.
That's not really the issue though. The issue is that as the result of a cockup, the government appear to have imported a large number of its population, at a cost to ourselves amount to several hundred pounds for every man, woman and child in the country, then lied about it, then covered it up.
If Afghan matters remained in Afghanistan it might not be an issue which got much traction. But they have not.
How many knew there was a superinjunction ? As a member of a local authority until May 2023 I had an inkling there was something. I am surprised it never appeared on the internet from beyond the seas.
Starmer got a bit lucky with the rebellion over welfare cuts. Imagine if a couple of weeks after voting to take £5bn off disabled people, it came out they had agreed £7bn for thr Afghan scheme.
Would Healey and Hoyle suffice, or do you need Starmer too? Fantastic opportunity for your team. Will Kemi take the win?
Why does Healey have to go?
Because he's sat on the story for a year, and (for now) appears to have continued to approve the super injunction. He certainly needs to explain himself better than he has so far.
As much as it makes me self-loathe I have to defend Healey if the advice he was getting from civil servants and/or government lawyers was along the lines of “you need to keep this super injunction and shell out loads of money or people will die” then what else is he supposed to do? Is he supposed to say “sorry guys, I know much more about the situation in my one year in charge than you do and I know the law better than government lawyers so drop it now”?
We get angry about the idea of Ministers making decisions based on their own prejudices or interests and ignoring advice so if Healey has followed what he can only consider the best advice then he can’t be blamed.
What is vital is that, if the advice from CC and legal was to continue (to both parties over the period) then how do we avoid bad advice, is there independent oversight etc to stop such a situation in the future.
No no no
The government as recently as June was eager to maintain the super injunction and indeed EXPAND the scheme to even more Afghans. Thus spending £7bn at least
They also connived in keeping the figures out of the ONS migration stats and it was the Labour government that decided to deliberately lie to the public, in the Commons, as to why all these afghans are arriving. They wanted to set a “false narrative”
This was one reason the judge lost his cool and decided it had all gone too far. Absolutely outrageous contempt for electors and democracy and a sacking offence in itself
What the F are you doing defending these people. They all need to go
I’m not defending these people, it’s a shit show by both parties but it also makes me wonder about the effects/power of legal and civil service advice over democratically elected politicians and will be interested what comes out.
If you are a minister/government and your own lawyers are telling you that you really have to continue doing something for important legal reasons the are you going to just pull the pin and say “bollocks I’m going public whatever the legal implications”?
BTW the minister said on Today that the figures weren’t kept out of the immigrations Stats and the reporter was wrong - brave move and resigning matter (hahaha) if he is lying.
I’d wager money he’s lying - in some form
Your defence of these people is pitiful and grotesque
I'll wager money your numbers are balls too.
But I’m the one quoting the judge in the transcript. Who seems the only reliable actor here. All the other numbers - which vary wildly from £400m to £800m to £2bn to £7bn to £10bn (and up) come from politicians with an agenda, and we KNOW these people are lying. They admitted it. “We want to set a false narrative as cover”
Why is the judge's number authoritative in any sense ? He has no powers of audit, and no more information than he has been given, so it's a number which came second hand from the politicians whose numbers you don't believe. He can clearly speak with authority on the legal position, but has little more idea than do you on what this is costing.
FWIW, the cost estimate for this particular mess is around an order of magnitude less https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg8zy78787o The government also revealed on Tuesday: The MoD believes 600 Afghan soldiers included in the leak, plus 1,800 of their family members, are still in Afghanistan The scheme is being closed down, but relocation offers already made to those who remain in Afghanistan will be honoured The secret scheme - officially called the Afghan Relocation Route - has cost £400m so far, and is expected to cost a further £400m to £450m The breach was committed mistakenly by an unnamed official at the MoD People whose details were leaked were only informed on Tuesday
As I noted upthread, the sensible way to deal with this is for the PAC to get to work and ferret out the actual numbers.
Your syllogism "everyone is lying, so I am right" is a load of nonsense.
And yet you blindly trust the new numbers given by a government which ADMITS IT IS LYING ON THIS EXACT ISSUE
You’re never the smartest but this is a new level of intellectual mediocrity
Are you seriously of such low IQ that you're incapable of comprehending some quite simple posts of mine ?
I've repeatedly said that the only way to get to the true figures is for them to be ferreted out. The Commons Pubic Accounts Committee is one of the better bodies for the task, as it has a pretty good record, and won't take a dozen years to get a result. I'm entirely open to better suggestions, of which you have produced ... approximately zero.
Get them in court and sling them all in jail. For a long long time. But first sack the woke lawyers and judges so we make sure the courts are hard and fair - but hard
I’m done with “inquiries” and “committees” and all this self serving, bullshitting nonsense where no one ever pays a price for anything. The Nu10k. They all need to be in prison; they are destroying the country and they seem to be doing it deliberately. They cannot even defend our beaches from invaders
I want a revolution (peaceful, please). I want to see lots of pro politicians facing 20 year jail terms. I want to tear it all down and start again. I’m done
Yes, you just want a Leon dictatorship. You keep your fantasies; the rest of us will struggle on.
His ceaseless twattish hysteria enlightens no-one and is just tiresome. We just know that whatever is next week's story will also be the worst thing ever and also presage the end of times, rinsed and repeated over and over until Farage doesn't become prime minister in four years time ...
On the other hand, I get paid for my “ ceaseless twattish hysteria” and you DON’T get paid for your bizarre if touching dog-based sex travelogues
In other news I’ve noticed that my stalker has just published a Spectator article comparing the British to hillbillies. The man pilfers without shame
Another of your logic fails.
a) @IanB2 doesn't get paid here, but then neither do you and you post a hell of a lot more.
b) You get paid for writing elsewhere, but then others get paid for doing other stuff elsewhere.
Your point is?
Equally to the point, I don't need to be paid to be travelling about, and have the freedom and time to linger and learn that being on a whistle stop assignment will never offer.
Since he's so sadly money driven, perhaps we could organise a whip round for him to **** off?
I don’t need to be paid. I would travel for free because I love it. But the happy fact is, I DO get paid, indeed sometimes I get paid to do insanely luxurious travel in £6000 a night hotels
It’s dark and lonely work, but someone has to do it. Etc
And had you even average intelligence, insight and understanding, just think what a wise fellow you might have become.
I do sometimes think Would I have had a more fulfilling life and career if I'd gone into a job like what @IanB2 did, accountancy, or quantity surveying, or whatever the fuck it was, and then I think HAHAHAHAHAHAH LOL NO
Becoming Karl Pilkington with added booze and without the cameras is hardly an achievement.
To have travelled the world and yet still have the views of someone who has never been more than ten miles from Jaywick is a truly tragic fail.
What was it you did? Chartered management or something? Widget supply analysis? Now you wander the world, tragically alone, trafficking your dog across borders like the Humbert Humbert of pet husbandry
Do you think this is a life well spent?
Who would exchange a life of drudgery for one of mainlining class A and shagging minor celebrities?
Afghan story currently ninth most read story on the BBC news website.
Beaten by Emma Watson, Trans, an advert bring banned, hosepipe ban, inflation.
Not surprised. It has some of the qualities of a story which is important and depressing (see Leon passim on this) but doesn't have the quality of going anywhere interesting or engaging or empathetic. I can't see the next 10 installments of this one, nor the counter full of popcorn.
For good or ill Afghanistan remains a far away country of which we know little. All we know is that we should never have gone near it either in the 19th century or the 21st.
That's not really the issue though. The issue is that as the result of a cockup, the government appear to have imported a large number of its population, at a cost to ourselves amount to several hundred pounds for every man, woman and child in the country, then lied about it, then covered it up.
If Afghan matters remained in Afghanistan it might not be an issue which got much traction. But they have not.
As someone posted upthread, getting involved in the affairs of Afghanistan has never turned out well for UK. Or, as others has found out, anyone else for the past thousand years or so.
Starmer got a bit lucky with the rebellion over welfare cuts. Imagine if a couple of weeks after voting to take £5bn off disabled people, it came out they had agreed £7bn for thr Afghan scheme.
Would Healey and Hoyle suffice, or do you need Starmer too? Fantastic opportunity for your team. Will Kemi take the win?
Why does Healey have to go?
Because he's sat on the story for a year, and (for now) appears to have continued to approve the super injunction. He certainly needs to explain himself better than he has so far.
As much as it makes me self-loathe I have to defend Healey if the advice he was getting from civil servants and/or government lawyers was along the lines of “you need to keep this super injunction and shell out loads of money or people will die” then what else is he supposed to do? Is he supposed to say “sorry guys, I know much more about the situation in my one year in charge than you do and I know the law better than government lawyers so drop it now”?
We get angry about the idea of Ministers making decisions based on their own prejudices or interests and ignoring advice so if Healey has followed what he can only consider the best advice then he can’t be blamed.
What is vital is that, if the advice from CC and legal was to continue (to both parties over the period) then how do we avoid bad advice, is there independent oversight etc to stop such a situation in the future.
No no no
The government as recently as June was eager to maintain the super injunction and indeed EXPAND the scheme to even more Afghans. Thus spending £7bn at least
They also connived in keeping the figures out of the ONS migration stats and it was the Labour government that decided to deliberately lie to the public, in the Commons, as to why all these afghans are arriving. They wanted to set a “false narrative”
This was one reason the judge lost his cool and decided it had all gone too far. Absolutely outrageous contempt for electors and democracy and a sacking offence in itself
What the F are you doing defending these people. They all need to go
I’m not defending these people, it’s a shit show by both parties but it also makes me wonder about the effects/power of legal and civil service advice over democratically elected politicians and will be interested what comes out.
If you are a minister/government and your own lawyers are telling you that you really have to continue doing something for important legal reasons the are you going to just pull the pin and say “bollocks I’m going public whatever the legal implications”?
BTW the minister said on Today that the figures weren’t kept out of the immigrations Stats and the reporter was wrong - brave move and resigning matter (hahaha) if he is lying.
I’d wager money he’s lying - in some form
Your defence of these people is pitiful and grotesque
I'll wager money your numbers are balls too.
But I’m the one quoting the judge in the transcript. Who seems the only reliable actor here. All the other numbers - which vary wildly from £400m to £800m to £2bn to £7bn to £10bn (and up) come from politicians with an agenda, and we KNOW these people are lying. They admitted it. “We want to set a false narrative as cover”
Why is the judge's number authoritative in any sense ? He has no powers of audit, and no more information than he has been given, so it's a number which came second hand from the politicians whose numbers you don't believe. He can clearly speak with authority on the legal position, but has little more idea than do you on what this is costing.
FWIW, the cost estimate for this particular mess is around an order of magnitude less https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg8zy78787o The government also revealed on Tuesday: The MoD believes 600 Afghan soldiers included in the leak, plus 1,800 of their family members, are still in Afghanistan The scheme is being closed down, but relocation offers already made to those who remain in Afghanistan will be honoured The secret scheme - officially called the Afghan Relocation Route - has cost £400m so far, and is expected to cost a further £400m to £450m The breach was committed mistakenly by an unnamed official at the MoD People whose details were leaked were only informed on Tuesday
As I noted upthread, the sensible way to deal with this is for the PAC to get to work and ferret out the actual numbers.
Your syllogism "everyone is lying, so I am right" is a load of nonsense.
And yet you blindly trust the new numbers given by a government which ADMITS IT IS LYING ON THIS EXACT ISSUE
You’re never the smartest but this is a new level of intellectual mediocrity
Are you seriously of such low IQ that you're incapable of comprehending some quite simple posts of mine ?
I've repeatedly said that the only way to get to the true figures is for them to be ferreted out. The Commons Pubic Accounts Committee is one of the better bodies for the task, as it has a pretty good record, and won't take a dozen years to get a result. I'm entirely open to better suggestions, of which you have produced ... approximately zero.
Get them in court and sling them all in jail. For a long long time. But first sack the woke lawyers and judges so we make sure the courts are hard and fair - but hard
I’m done with “inquiries” and “committees” and all this self serving, bullshitting nonsense where no one ever pays a price for anything. The Nu10k. They all need to be in prison; they are destroying the country and they seem to be doing it deliberately. They cannot even defend our beaches from invaders
I want a revolution (peaceful, please). I want to see lots of pro politicians facing 20 year jail terms. I want to tear it all down and start again. I’m done
Yes, you just want a Leon dictatorship. You keep your fantasies; the rest of us will struggle on.
His ceaseless twattish hysteria enlightens no-one and is just tiresome. We just know that whatever is next week's story will also be the worst thing ever and also presage the end of times, rinsed and repeated over and over until Farage doesn't become prime minister in four years time ...
On the other hand, I get paid for my “ ceaseless twattish hysteria” and you DON’T get paid for your bizarre if touching dog-based sex travelogues
In other news I’ve noticed that my stalker has just published a Spectator article comparing the British to hillbillies. The man pilfers without shame
Another of your logic fails.
a) @IanB2 doesn't get paid here, but then neither do you and you post a hell of a lot more.
b) You get paid for writing elsewhere, but then others get paid for doing other stuff elsewhere.
Your point is?
Equally to the point, I don't need to be paid to be travelling about, and have the freedom and time to linger and learn that being on a whistle stop assignment will never offer.
Since he's so sadly money driven, perhaps we could organise a whip round for him to **** off?
I don’t need to be paid. I would travel for free because I love it. But the happy fact is, I DO get paid, indeed sometimes I get paid to do insanely luxurious travel in £6000 a night hotels
It’s dark and lonely work, but someone has to do it. Etc
And had you even average intelligence, insight and understanding, just think what a wise fellow you might have become.
I do sometimes think Would I have had a more fulfilling life and career if I'd gone into a job like what @IanB2 did, accountancy, or quantity surveying, or whatever the fuck it was, and then I think HAHAHAHAHAHAH LOL NO
Becoming Karl Pilkington with added booze and without the cameras is hardly an achievement.
To have travelled the world and yet still have the views of someone who has never been more than ten miles from Jaywick is a truly tragic fail.
What was it you did? Chartered management or something? Widget supply analysis? Now you wander the world, tragically alone, trafficking your dog across borders like the Humbert Humbert of pet husbandry
Do you think this is a life well spent?
'tragically alone' - Do you never read what you write? Does it come as a surprise to you if you read it after you have typed it?
Yes, I do
And I reread ny description of @IanB2 as "the Humbert Humbert of pet husbandry, trafficking his frightened dog across frontiers" with great pleasure, and no small pride
Well you clearly don't - 'frightened fog' is what you initially wrote
Anyway lets get back to the 'tragically alone'. How on earth can you accuse someone of travelling 'tragically alone'. It means you are either 'tragic' yourself or wrong in your description.
Starmer got a bit lucky with the rebellion over welfare cuts. Imagine if a couple of weeks after voting to take £5bn off disabled people, it came out they had agreed £7bn for thr Afghan scheme.
Would Healey and Hoyle suffice, or do you need Starmer too? Fantastic opportunity for your team. Will Kemi take the win?
Why does Healey have to go?
Because he's sat on the story for a year, and (for now) appears to have continued to approve the super injunction. He certainly needs to explain himself better than he has so far.
As much as it makes me self-loathe I have to defend Healey if the advice he was getting from civil servants and/or government lawyers was along the lines of “you need to keep this super injunction and shell out loads of money or people will die” then what else is he supposed to do? Is he supposed to say “sorry guys, I know much more about the situation in my one year in charge than you do and I know the law better than government lawyers so drop it now”?
We get angry about the idea of Ministers making decisions based on their own prejudices or interests and ignoring advice so if Healey has followed what he can only consider the best advice then he can’t be blamed.
What is vital is that, if the advice from CC and legal was to continue (to both parties over the period) then how do we avoid bad advice, is there independent oversight etc to stop such a situation in the future.
No no no
The government as recently as June was eager to maintain the super injunction and indeed EXPAND the scheme to even more Afghans. Thus spending £7bn at least
They also connived in keeping the figures out of the ONS migration stats and it was the Labour government that decided to deliberately lie to the public, in the Commons, as to why all these afghans are arriving. They wanted to set a “false narrative”
This was one reason the judge lost his cool and decided it had all gone too far. Absolutely outrageous contempt for electors and democracy and a sacking offence in itself
What the F are you doing defending these people. They all need to go
I’m not defending these people, it’s a shit show by both parties but it also makes me wonder about the effects/power of legal and civil service advice over democratically elected politicians and will be interested what comes out.
If you are a minister/government and your own lawyers are telling you that you really have to continue doing something for important legal reasons the are you going to just pull the pin and say “bollocks I’m going public whatever the legal implications”?
BTW the minister said on Today that the figures weren’t kept out of the immigrations Stats and the reporter was wrong - brave move and resigning matter (hahaha) if he is lying.
I’d wager money he’s lying - in some form
Your defence of these people is pitiful and grotesque
I'll wager money your numbers are balls too.
But I’m the one quoting the judge in the transcript. Who seems the only reliable actor here. All the other numbers - which vary wildly from £400m to £800m to £2bn to £7bn to £10bn (and up) come from politicians with an agenda, and we KNOW these people are lying. They admitted it. “We want to set a false narrative as cover”
Why is the judge's number authoritative in any sense ? He has no powers of audit, and no more information than he has been given, so it's a number which came second hand from the politicians whose numbers you don't believe. He can clearly speak with authority on the legal position, but has little more idea than do you on what this is costing.
FWIW, the cost estimate for this particular mess is around an order of magnitude less https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg8zy78787o The government also revealed on Tuesday: The MoD believes 600 Afghan soldiers included in the leak, plus 1,800 of their family members, are still in Afghanistan The scheme is being closed down, but relocation offers already made to those who remain in Afghanistan will be honoured The secret scheme - officially called the Afghan Relocation Route - has cost £400m so far, and is expected to cost a further £400m to £450m The breach was committed mistakenly by an unnamed official at the MoD People whose details were leaked were only informed on Tuesday
As I noted upthread, the sensible way to deal with this is for the PAC to get to work and ferret out the actual numbers.
Your syllogism "everyone is lying, so I am right" is a load of nonsense.
And yet you blindly trust the new numbers given by a government which ADMITS IT IS LYING ON THIS EXACT ISSUE
You’re never the smartest but this is a new level of intellectual mediocrity
Are you seriously of such low IQ that you're incapable of comprehending some quite simple posts of mine ?
I've repeatedly said that the only way to get to the true figures is for them to be ferreted out. The Commons Pubic Accounts Committee is one of the better bodies for the task, as it has a pretty good record, and won't take a dozen years to get a result. I'm entirely open to better suggestions, of which you have produced ... approximately zero.
Get them in court and sling them all in jail. For a long long time. But first sack the woke lawyers and judges so we make sure the courts are hard and fair - but hard
I’m done with “inquiries” and “committees” and all this self serving, bullshitting nonsense where no one ever pays a price for anything. The Nu10k. They all need to be in prison; they are destroying the country and they seem to be doing it deliberately. They cannot even defend our beaches from invaders
I want a revolution (peaceful, please). I want to see lots of pro politicians facing 20 year jail terms. I want to tear it all down and start again. I’m done
Yes, you just want a Leon dictatorship. You keep your fantasies; the rest of us will struggle on.
His ceaseless twattish hysteria enlightens no-one and is just tiresome. We just know that whatever is next week's story will also be the worst thing ever and also presage the end of times, rinsed and repeated over and over until Farage doesn't become prime minister in four years time ...
On the other hand, I get paid for my “ ceaseless twattish hysteria” and you DON’T get paid for your bizarre if touching dog-based sex travelogues
In other news I’ve noticed that my stalker has just published a Spectator article comparing the British to hillbillies. The man pilfers without shame
Another of your logic fails.
a) @IanB2 doesn't get paid here, but then neither do you and you post a hell of a lot more.
b) You get paid for writing elsewhere, but then others get paid for doing other stuff elsewhere.
Your point is?
Equally to the point, I don't need to be paid to be travelling about, and have the freedom and time to linger and learn that being on a whistle stop assignment will never offer.
Since he's so sadly money driven, perhaps we could organise a whip round for him to **** off?
I don’t need to be paid. I would travel for free because I love it. But the happy fact is, I DO get paid, indeed sometimes I get paid to do insanely luxurious travel in £6000 a night hotels
It’s dark and lonely work, but someone has to do it. Etc
And had you even average intelligence, insight and understanding, just think what a wise fellow you might have become.
I do sometimes think Would I have had a more fulfilling life and career if I'd gone into a job like what @IanB2 did, accountancy, or quantity surveying, or whatever the fuck it was, and then I think HAHAHAHAHAHAH LOL NO
Becoming Karl Pilkington with added booze and without the cameras is hardly an achievement.
To have travelled the world and yet still have the views of someone who has never been more than ten miles from Jaywick is a truly tragic fail.
What was it you did? Chartered management or something? Widget supply analysis? Now you wander the world, tragically alone, trafficking your dog across borders like the Humbert Humbert of pet husbandry
Do you think this is a life well spent?
I used to want to be a travel writer. It was based on reading a lot of Bill Bryson as a teenager. I thought I could quite happily travel the world experiencing different places and stringing the process out into amusing doggerel. It struck me as both agreeable and conducive to my skillset. Then I started reading more widely and it struck me that most travel writers seem to go to places rather more challenging than Belgium or Maine, and have to actually write creatively about those places rather than just their thoughts on the idiosyncrasies of the lifts or the peculiarities of the individuals along the way, and my enthusiasm and self-belief dwindled.
Honestly, who the fuck cares?
All politicians of major parties, except the Greens of course, are conniving c-nts who lie about everything, even when the truth would serve them better.
The numbers of Afghan chancers are tiny compared to the brexitwave anyway.
Whatever the highly contested amount of money is, they would have just wasted it on something else anyway.
Starmer got a bit lucky with the rebellion over welfare cuts. Imagine if a couple of weeks after voting to take £5bn off disabled people, it came out they had agreed £7bn for thr Afghan scheme.
Would Healey and Hoyle suffice, or do you need Starmer too? Fantastic opportunity for your team. Will Kemi take the win?
Why does Healey have to go?
Because he's sat on the story for a year, and (for now) appears to have continued to approve the super injunction. He certainly needs to explain himself better than he has so far.
As much as it makes me self-loathe I have to defend Healey if the advice he was getting from civil servants and/or government lawyers was along the lines of “you need to keep this super injunction and shell out loads of money or people will die” then what else is he supposed to do? Is he supposed to say “sorry guys, I know much more about the situation in my one year in charge than you do and I know the law better than government lawyers so drop it now”?
We get angry about the idea of Ministers making decisions based on their own prejudices or interests and ignoring advice so if Healey has followed what he can only consider the best advice then he can’t be blamed.
What is vital is that, if the advice from CC and legal was to continue (to both parties over the period) then how do we avoid bad advice, is there independent oversight etc to stop such a situation in the future.
No no no
The government as recently as June was eager to maintain the super injunction and indeed EXPAND the scheme to even more Afghans. Thus spending £7bn at least
They also connived in keeping the figures out of the ONS migration stats and it was the Labour government that decided to deliberately lie to the public, in the Commons, as to why all these afghans are arriving. They wanted to set a “false narrative”
This was one reason the judge lost his cool and decided it had all gone too far. Absolutely outrageous contempt for electors and democracy and a sacking offence in itself
What the F are you doing defending these people. They all need to go
I’m not defending these people, it’s a shit show by both parties but it also makes me wonder about the effects/power of legal and civil service advice over democratically elected politicians and will be interested what comes out.
If you are a minister/government and your own lawyers are telling you that you really have to continue doing something for important legal reasons the are you going to just pull the pin and say “bollocks I’m going public whatever the legal implications”?
BTW the minister said on Today that the figures weren’t kept out of the immigrations Stats and the reporter was wrong - brave move and resigning matter (hahaha) if he is lying.
I’d wager money he’s lying - in some form
Your defence of these people is pitiful and grotesque
I'll wager money your numbers are balls too.
But I’m the one quoting the judge in the transcript. Who seems the only reliable actor here. All the other numbers - which vary wildly from £400m to £800m to £2bn to £7bn to £10bn (and up) come from politicians with an agenda, and we KNOW these people are lying. They admitted it. “We want to set a false narrative as cover”
Why is the judge's number authoritative in any sense ? He has no powers of audit, and no more information than he has been given, so it's a number which came second hand from the politicians whose numbers you don't believe. He can clearly speak with authority on the legal position, but has little more idea than do you on what this is costing.
FWIW, the cost estimate for this particular mess is around an order of magnitude less https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg8zy78787o The government also revealed on Tuesday: The MoD believes 600 Afghan soldiers included in the leak, plus 1,800 of their family members, are still in Afghanistan The scheme is being closed down, but relocation offers already made to those who remain in Afghanistan will be honoured The secret scheme - officially called the Afghan Relocation Route - has cost £400m so far, and is expected to cost a further £400m to £450m The breach was committed mistakenly by an unnamed official at the MoD People whose details were leaked were only informed on Tuesday
As I noted upthread, the sensible way to deal with this is for the PAC to get to work and ferret out the actual numbers.
Your syllogism "everyone is lying, so I am right" is a load of nonsense.
And yet you blindly trust the new numbers given by a government which ADMITS IT IS LYING ON THIS EXACT ISSUE
You’re never the smartest but this is a new level of intellectual mediocrity
Are you seriously of such low IQ that you're incapable of comprehending some quite simple posts of mine ?
I've repeatedly said that the only way to get to the true figures is for them to be ferreted out. The Commons Pubic Accounts Committee is one of the better bodies for the task, as it has a pretty good record, and won't take a dozen years to get a result. I'm entirely open to better suggestions, of which you have produced ... approximately zero.
Get them in court and sling them all in jail. For a long long time. But first sack the woke lawyers and judges so we make sure the courts are hard and fair - but hard
I’m done with “inquiries” and “committees” and all this self serving, bullshitting nonsense where no one ever pays a price for anything. The Nu10k. They all need to be in prison; they are destroying the country and they seem to be doing it deliberately. They cannot even defend our beaches from invaders
I want a revolution (peaceful, please). I want to see lots of pro politicians facing 20 year jail terms. I want to tear it all down and start again. I’m done
Yes, you just want a Leon dictatorship. You keep your fantasies; the rest of us will struggle on.
His ceaseless twattish hysteria enlightens no-one and is just tiresome. We just know that whatever is next week's story will also be the worst thing ever and also presage the end of times, rinsed and repeated over and over until Farage doesn't become prime minister in four years time ...
On the other hand, I get paid for my “ ceaseless twattish hysteria” and you DON’T get paid for your bizarre if touching dog-based sex travelogues
In other news I’ve noticed that my stalker has just published a Spectator article comparing the British to hillbillies. The man pilfers without shame
Another of your logic fails.
a) @IanB2 doesn't get paid here, but then neither do you and you post a hell of a lot more.
b) You get paid for writing elsewhere, but then others get paid for doing other stuff elsewhere.
Your point is?
Equally to the point, I don't need to be paid to be travelling about, and have the freedom and time to linger and learn that being on a whistle stop assignment will never offer.
Since he's so sadly money driven, perhaps we could organise a whip round for him to **** off?
I don’t need to be paid. I would travel for free because I love it. But the happy fact is, I DO get paid, indeed sometimes I get paid to do insanely luxurious travel in £6000 a night hotels
It’s dark and lonely work, but someone has to do it. Etc
And had you even average intelligence, insight and understanding, just think what a wise fellow you might have become.
I do sometimes think Would I have had a more fulfilling life and career if I'd gone into a job like what @IanB2 did, accountancy, or quantity surveying, or whatever the fuck it was, and then I think HAHAHAHAHAHAH LOL NO
Becoming Karl Pilkington with added booze and without the cameras is hardly an achievement.
To have travelled the world and yet still have the views of someone who has never been more than ten miles from Jaywick is a truly tragic fail.
What was it you did? Chartered management or something? Widget supply analysis? Now you wander the world, tragically alone, trafficking your dog across borders like the Humbert Humbert of pet husbandry
Do you think this is a life well spent?
'tragically alone' - Do you never read what you write? Does it come as a surprise to you if you read it after you have typed it?
Yes, I do
And I reread ny description of @IanB2 as "the Humbert Humbert of pet husbandry, trafficking his frightened dog across frontiers" with great pleasure, and no small pride
Well you clearly don't - 'frightened fog' is what you initially wrote
Anyway lets get back to the 'tragically alone'. How on earth can you accuse someone of travelling 'tragically alone'. It means you are either 'tragic' yourself or wrong in your description.
Starmer got a bit lucky with the rebellion over welfare cuts. Imagine if a couple of weeks after voting to take £5bn off disabled people, it came out they had agreed £7bn for thr Afghan scheme.
Would Healey and Hoyle suffice, or do you need Starmer too? Fantastic opportunity for your team. Will Kemi take the win?
Why does Healey have to go?
Because he's sat on the story for a year, and (for now) appears to have continued to approve the super injunction. He certainly needs to explain himself better than he has so far.
As much as it makes me self-loathe I have to defend Healey if the advice he was getting from civil servants and/or government lawyers was along the lines of “you need to keep this super injunction and shell out loads of money or people will die” then what else is he supposed to do? Is he supposed to say “sorry guys, I know much more about the situation in my one year in charge than you do and I know the law better than government lawyers so drop it now”?
We get angry about the idea of Ministers making decisions based on their own prejudices or interests and ignoring advice so if Healey has followed what he can only consider the best advice then he can’t be blamed.
What is vital is that, if the advice from CC and legal was to continue (to both parties over the period) then how do we avoid bad advice, is there independent oversight etc to stop such a situation in the future.
No no no
The government as recently as June was eager to maintain the super injunction and indeed EXPAND the scheme to even more Afghans. Thus spending £7bn at least
They also connived in keeping the figures out of the ONS migration stats and it was the Labour government that decided to deliberately lie to the public, in the Commons, as to why all these afghans are arriving. They wanted to set a “false narrative”
This was one reason the judge lost his cool and decided it had all gone too far. Absolutely outrageous contempt for electors and democracy and a sacking offence in itself
What the F are you doing defending these people. They all need to go
I’m not defending these people, it’s a shit show by both parties but it also makes me wonder about the effects/power of legal and civil service advice over democratically elected politicians and will be interested what comes out.
If you are a minister/government and your own lawyers are telling you that you really have to continue doing something for important legal reasons the are you going to just pull the pin and say “bollocks I’m going public whatever the legal implications”?
BTW the minister said on Today that the figures weren’t kept out of the immigrations Stats and the reporter was wrong - brave move and resigning matter (hahaha) if he is lying.
I’d wager money he’s lying - in some form
Your defence of these people is pitiful and grotesque
I'll wager money your numbers are balls too.
But I’m the one quoting the judge in the transcript. Who seems the only reliable actor here. All the other numbers - which vary wildly from £400m to £800m to £2bn to £7bn to £10bn (and up) come from politicians with an agenda, and we KNOW these people are lying. They admitted it. “We want to set a false narrative as cover”
Why is the judge's number authoritative in any sense ? He has no powers of audit, and no more information than he has been given, so it's a number which came second hand from the politicians whose numbers you don't believe. He can clearly speak with authority on the legal position, but has little more idea than do you on what this is costing.
FWIW, the cost estimate for this particular mess is around an order of magnitude less https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg8zy78787o The government also revealed on Tuesday: The MoD believes 600 Afghan soldiers included in the leak, plus 1,800 of their family members, are still in Afghanistan The scheme is being closed down, but relocation offers already made to those who remain in Afghanistan will be honoured The secret scheme - officially called the Afghan Relocation Route - has cost £400m so far, and is expected to cost a further £400m to £450m The breach was committed mistakenly by an unnamed official at the MoD People whose details were leaked were only informed on Tuesday
As I noted upthread, the sensible way to deal with this is for the PAC to get to work and ferret out the actual numbers.
Your syllogism "everyone is lying, so I am right" is a load of nonsense.
And yet you blindly trust the new numbers given by a government which ADMITS IT IS LYING ON THIS EXACT ISSUE
You’re never the smartest but this is a new level of intellectual mediocrity
Are you seriously of such low IQ that you're incapable of comprehending some quite simple posts of mine ?
I've repeatedly said that the only way to get to the true figures is for them to be ferreted out. The Commons Pubic Accounts Committee is one of the better bodies for the task, as it has a pretty good record, and won't take a dozen years to get a result. I'm entirely open to better suggestions, of which you have produced ... approximately zero.
Get them in court and sling them all in jail. For a long long time. But first sack the woke lawyers and judges so we make sure the courts are hard and fair - but hard
I’m done with “inquiries” and “committees” and all this self serving, bullshitting nonsense where no one ever pays a price for anything. The Nu10k. They all need to be in prison; they are destroying the country and they seem to be doing it deliberately. They cannot even defend our beaches from invaders
I want a revolution (peaceful, please). I want to see lots of pro politicians facing 20 year jail terms. I want to tear it all down and start again. I’m done
Yes, you just want a Leon dictatorship. You keep your fantasies; the rest of us will struggle on.
His ceaseless twattish hysteria enlightens no-one and is just tiresome. We just know that whatever is next week's story will also be the worst thing ever and also presage the end of times, rinsed and repeated over and over until Farage doesn't become prime minister in four years time ...
On the other hand, I get paid for my “ ceaseless twattish hysteria” and you DON’T get paid for your bizarre if touching dog-based sex travelogues
In other news I’ve noticed that my stalker has just published a Spectator article comparing the British to hillbillies. The man pilfers without shame
Another of your logic fails.
a) @IanB2 doesn't get paid here, but then neither do you and you post a hell of a lot more.
b) You get paid for writing elsewhere, but then others get paid for doing other stuff elsewhere.
Your point is?
Equally to the point, I don't need to be paid to be travelling about, and have the freedom and time to linger and learn that being on a whistle stop assignment will never offer.
Since he's so sadly money driven, perhaps we could organise a whip round for him to **** off?
I don’t need to be paid. I would travel for free because I love it. But the happy fact is, I DO get paid, indeed sometimes I get paid to do insanely luxurious travel in £6000 a night hotels
It’s dark and lonely work, but someone has to do it. Etc
And had you even average intelligence, insight and understanding, just think what a wise fellow you might have become.
I do sometimes think Would I have had a more fulfilling life and career if I'd gone into a job like what @IanB2 did, accountancy, or quantity surveying, or whatever the fuck it was, and then I think HAHAHAHAHAHAH LOL NO
Becoming Karl Pilkington with added booze and without the cameras is hardly an achievement.
To have travelled the world and yet still have the views of someone who has never been more than ten miles from Jaywick is a truly tragic fail.
What was it you did? Chartered management or something? Widget supply analysis? Now you wander the world, tragically alone, trafficking your dog across borders like the Humbert Humbert of pet husbandry
Do you think this is a life well spent?
Who would exchange a life of drudgery for one of mainlining class A and shagging minor celebrities?
Starmer got a bit lucky with the rebellion over welfare cuts. Imagine if a couple of weeks after voting to take £5bn off disabled people, it came out they had agreed £7bn for thr Afghan scheme.
Would Healey and Hoyle suffice, or do you need Starmer too? Fantastic opportunity for your team. Will Kemi take the win?
Why does Healey have to go?
Because he's sat on the story for a year, and (for now) appears to have continued to approve the super injunction. He certainly needs to explain himself better than he has so far.
As much as it makes me self-loathe I have to defend Healey if the advice he was getting from civil servants and/or government lawyers was along the lines of “you need to keep this super injunction and shell out loads of money or people will die” then what else is he supposed to do? Is he supposed to say “sorry guys, I know much more about the situation in my one year in charge than you do and I know the law better than government lawyers so drop it now”?
We get angry about the idea of Ministers making decisions based on their own prejudices or interests and ignoring advice so if Healey has followed what he can only consider the best advice then he can’t be blamed.
What is vital is that, if the advice from CC and legal was to continue (to both parties over the period) then how do we avoid bad advice, is there independent oversight etc to stop such a situation in the future.
No no no
The government as recently as June was eager to maintain the super injunction and indeed EXPAND the scheme to even more Afghans. Thus spending £7bn at least
They also connived in keeping the figures out of the ONS migration stats and it was the Labour government that decided to deliberately lie to the public, in the Commons, as to why all these afghans are arriving. They wanted to set a “false narrative”
This was one reason the judge lost his cool and decided it had all gone too far. Absolutely outrageous contempt for electors and democracy and a sacking offence in itself
What the F are you doing defending these people. They all need to go
I’m not defending these people, it’s a shit show by both parties but it also makes me wonder about the effects/power of legal and civil service advice over democratically elected politicians and will be interested what comes out.
If you are a minister/government and your own lawyers are telling you that you really have to continue doing something for important legal reasons the are you going to just pull the pin and say “bollocks I’m going public whatever the legal implications”?
BTW the minister said on Today that the figures weren’t kept out of the immigrations Stats and the reporter was wrong - brave move and resigning matter (hahaha) if he is lying.
I’d wager money he’s lying - in some form
Your defence of these people is pitiful and grotesque
I'll wager money your numbers are balls too.
But I’m the one quoting the judge in the transcript. Who seems the only reliable actor here. All the other numbers - which vary wildly from £400m to £800m to £2bn to £7bn to £10bn (and up) come from politicians with an agenda, and we KNOW these people are lying. They admitted it. “We want to set a false narrative as cover”
Why is the judge's number authoritative in any sense ? He has no powers of audit, and no more information than he has been given, so it's a number which came second hand from the politicians whose numbers you don't believe. He can clearly speak with authority on the legal position, but has little more idea than do you on what this is costing.
FWIW, the cost estimate for this particular mess is around an order of magnitude less https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg8zy78787o The government also revealed on Tuesday: The MoD believes 600 Afghan soldiers included in the leak, plus 1,800 of their family members, are still in Afghanistan The scheme is being closed down, but relocation offers already made to those who remain in Afghanistan will be honoured The secret scheme - officially called the Afghan Relocation Route - has cost £400m so far, and is expected to cost a further £400m to £450m The breach was committed mistakenly by an unnamed official at the MoD People whose details were leaked were only informed on Tuesday
As I noted upthread, the sensible way to deal with this is for the PAC to get to work and ferret out the actual numbers.
Your syllogism "everyone is lying, so I am right" is a load of nonsense.
And yet you blindly trust the new numbers given by a government which ADMITS IT IS LYING ON THIS EXACT ISSUE
You’re never the smartest but this is a new level of intellectual mediocrity
Are you seriously of such low IQ that you're incapable of comprehending some quite simple posts of mine ?
I've repeatedly said that the only way to get to the true figures is for them to be ferreted out. The Commons Pubic Accounts Committee is one of the better bodies for the task, as it has a pretty good record, and won't take a dozen years to get a result. I'm entirely open to better suggestions, of which you have produced ... approximately zero.
Get them in court and sling them all in jail. For a long long time. But first sack the woke lawyers and judges so we make sure the courts are hard and fair - but hard
I’m done with “inquiries” and “committees” and all this self serving, bullshitting nonsense where no one ever pays a price for anything. The Nu10k. They all need to be in prison; they are destroying the country and they seem to be doing it deliberately. They cannot even defend our beaches from invaders
I want a revolution (peaceful, please). I want to see lots of pro politicians facing 20 year jail terms. I want to tear it all down and start again. I’m done
Yes, you just want a Leon dictatorship. You keep your fantasies; the rest of us will struggle on.
His ceaseless twattish hysteria enlightens no-one and is just tiresome. We just know that whatever is next week's story will also be the worst thing ever and also presage the end of times, rinsed and repeated over and over until Farage doesn't become prime minister in four years time ...
On the other hand, I get paid for my “ ceaseless twattish hysteria” and you DON’T get paid for your bizarre if touching dog-based sex travelogues
In other news I’ve noticed that my stalker has just published a Spectator article comparing the British to hillbillies. The man pilfers without shame
Another of your logic fails.
a) @IanB2 doesn't get paid here, but then neither do you and you post a hell of a lot more.
b) You get paid for writing elsewhere, but then others get paid for doing other stuff elsewhere.
Your point is?
Equally to the point, I don't need to be paid to be travelling about, and have the freedom and time to linger and learn that being on a whistle stop assignment will never offer.
Since he's so sadly money driven, perhaps we could organise a whip round for him to **** off?
I don’t need to be paid. I would travel for free because I love it. But the happy fact is, I DO get paid, indeed sometimes I get paid to do insanely luxurious travel in £6000 a night hotels
It’s dark and lonely work, but someone has to do it. Etc
And had you even average intelligence, insight and understanding, just think what a wise fellow you might have become.
I do sometimes think Would I have had a more fulfilling life and career if I'd gone into a job like what @IanB2 did, accountancy, or quantity surveying, or whatever the fuck it was, and then I think HAHAHAHAHAHAH LOL NO
Becoming Karl Pilkington with added booze and without the cameras is hardly an achievement.
To have travelled the world and yet still have the views of someone who has never been more than ten miles from Jaywick is a truly tragic fail.
What was it you did? Chartered management or something? Widget supply analysis? Now you wander the world, tragically alone, trafficking your dog across borders like the Humbert Humbert of pet husbandry
Do you think this is a life well spent?
'tragically alone' - Do you never read what you write? Does it come as a surprise to you if you read it after you have typed it?
Yes, I do
And I reread ny description of @IanB2 as "the Humbert Humbert of pet husbandry, trafficking his frightened dog across frontiers" with great pleasure, and no small pride
Well you clearly don't - 'frightened fog' is what you initially wrote
Anyway lets get back to the 'tragically alone'. How on earth can you accuse someone of travelling 'tragically alone'. It means you are either 'tragic' yourself or wrong in your description.
Who are you? I forget
I'm the one dismantling your posts like I always do. You don't remember?
Starmer got a bit lucky with the rebellion over welfare cuts. Imagine if a couple of weeks after voting to take £5bn off disabled people, it came out they had agreed £7bn for thr Afghan scheme.
Would Healey and Hoyle suffice, or do you need Starmer too? Fantastic opportunity for your team. Will Kemi take the win?
Why does Healey have to go?
Because he's sat on the story for a year, and (for now) appears to have continued to approve the super injunction. He certainly needs to explain himself better than he has so far.
As much as it makes me self-loathe I have to defend Healey if the advice he was getting from civil servants and/or government lawyers was along the lines of “you need to keep this super injunction and shell out loads of money or people will die” then what else is he supposed to do? Is he supposed to say “sorry guys, I know much more about the situation in my one year in charge than you do and I know the law better than government lawyers so drop it now”?
We get angry about the idea of Ministers making decisions based on their own prejudices or interests and ignoring advice so if Healey has followed what he can only consider the best advice then he can’t be blamed.
What is vital is that, if the advice from CC and legal was to continue (to both parties over the period) then how do we avoid bad advice, is there independent oversight etc to stop such a situation in the future.
No no no
The government as recently as June was eager to maintain the super injunction and indeed EXPAND the scheme to even more Afghans. Thus spending £7bn at least
They also connived in keeping the figures out of the ONS migration stats and it was the Labour government that decided to deliberately lie to the public, in the Commons, as to why all these afghans are arriving. They wanted to set a “false narrative”
This was one reason the judge lost his cool and decided it had all gone too far. Absolutely outrageous contempt for electors and democracy and a sacking offence in itself
What the F are you doing defending these people. They all need to go
I’m not defending these people, it’s a shit show by both parties but it also makes me wonder about the effects/power of legal and civil service advice over democratically elected politicians and will be interested what comes out.
If you are a minister/government and your own lawyers are telling you that you really have to continue doing something for important legal reasons the are you going to just pull the pin and say “bollocks I’m going public whatever the legal implications”?
BTW the minister said on Today that the figures weren’t kept out of the immigrations Stats and the reporter was wrong - brave move and resigning matter (hahaha) if he is lying.
I’d wager money he’s lying - in some form
Your defence of these people is pitiful and grotesque
I'll wager money your numbers are balls too.
But I’m the one quoting the judge in the transcript. Who seems the only reliable actor here. All the other numbers - which vary wildly from £400m to £800m to £2bn to £7bn to £10bn (and up) come from politicians with an agenda, and we KNOW these people are lying. They admitted it. “We want to set a false narrative as cover”
Why is the judge's number authoritative in any sense ? He has no powers of audit, and no more information than he has been given, so it's a number which came second hand from the politicians whose numbers you don't believe. He can clearly speak with authority on the legal position, but has little more idea than do you on what this is costing.
FWIW, the cost estimate for this particular mess is around an order of magnitude less https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg8zy78787o The government also revealed on Tuesday: The MoD believes 600 Afghan soldiers included in the leak, plus 1,800 of their family members, are still in Afghanistan The scheme is being closed down, but relocation offers already made to those who remain in Afghanistan will be honoured The secret scheme - officially called the Afghan Relocation Route - has cost £400m so far, and is expected to cost a further £400m to £450m The breach was committed mistakenly by an unnamed official at the MoD People whose details were leaked were only informed on Tuesday
As I noted upthread, the sensible way to deal with this is for the PAC to get to work and ferret out the actual numbers.
Your syllogism "everyone is lying, so I am right" is a load of nonsense.
And yet you blindly trust the new numbers given by a government which ADMITS IT IS LYING ON THIS EXACT ISSUE
You’re never the smartest but this is a new level of intellectual mediocrity
Are you seriously of such low IQ that you're incapable of comprehending some quite simple posts of mine ?
I've repeatedly said that the only way to get to the true figures is for them to be ferreted out. The Commons Pubic Accounts Committee is one of the better bodies for the task, as it has a pretty good record, and won't take a dozen years to get a result. I'm entirely open to better suggestions, of which you have produced ... approximately zero.
Get them in court and sling them all in jail. For a long long time. But first sack the woke lawyers and judges so we make sure the courts are hard and fair - but hard
I’m done with “inquiries” and “committees” and all this self serving, bullshitting nonsense where no one ever pays a price for anything. The Nu10k. They all need to be in prison; they are destroying the country and they seem to be doing it deliberately. They cannot even defend our beaches from invaders
I want a revolution (peaceful, please). I want to see lots of pro politicians facing 20 year jail terms. I want to tear it all down and start again. I’m done
Yes, you just want a Leon dictatorship. You keep your fantasies; the rest of us will struggle on.
His ceaseless twattish hysteria enlightens no-one and is just tiresome. We just know that whatever is next week's story will also be the worst thing ever and also presage the end of times, rinsed and repeated over and over until Farage doesn't become prime minister in four years time ...
On the other hand, I get paid for my “ ceaseless twattish hysteria” and you DON’T get paid for your bizarre if touching dog-based sex travelogues
In other news I’ve noticed that my stalker has just published a Spectator article comparing the British to hillbillies. The man pilfers without shame
Another of your logic fails.
a) @IanB2 doesn't get paid here, but then neither do you and you post a hell of a lot more.
b) You get paid for writing elsewhere, but then others get paid for doing other stuff elsewhere.
Your point is?
Equally to the point, I don't need to be paid to be travelling about, and have the freedom and time to linger and learn that being on a whistle stop assignment will never offer.
Since he's so sadly money driven, perhaps we could organise a whip round for him to **** off?
I don’t need to be paid. I would travel for free because I love it. But the happy fact is, I DO get paid, indeed sometimes I get paid to do insanely luxurious travel in £6000 a night hotels
It’s dark and lonely work, but someone has to do it. Etc
And had you even average intelligence, insight and understanding, just think what a wise fellow you might have become.
I do sometimes think Would I have had a more fulfilling life and career if I'd gone into a job like what @IanB2 did, accountancy, or quantity surveying, or whatever the fuck it was, and then I think HAHAHAHAHAHAH LOL NO
Becoming Karl Pilkington with added booze and without the cameras is hardly an achievement.
To have travelled the world and yet still have the views of someone who has never been more than ten miles from Jaywick is a truly tragic fail.
What was it you did? Chartered management or something? Widget supply analysis? Now you wander the world, tragically alone, trafficking your dog across borders like the Humbert Humbert of pet husbandry
Do you think this is a life well spent?
I used to want to be a travel writer. It was based on reading a lot of Bill Bryson as a teenager. I thought I could quite happily travel the world experiencing different places and stringing the process out into amusing doggerel. It struck me as both agreeable and conducive to my skillset. Then I started reading more widely and it struck me that most travel writers seem to go to places rather more challenging than Belgium or Maine, and have to actually write creatively about those places rather than just their thoughts on the idiosyncrasies of the lifts or the peculiarities of the individuals along the way, and my enthusiasm and self-belief dwindled.
Honestly, who the fuck cares?
All politicians of major parties, except the Greens of course, are conniving c-nts who lie about everything, even when the truth would serve them better.
The numbers of Afghan chancers are tiny compared to the brexitwave anyway.
Whatever the highly contested amount of money is, they would have just wasted it on something else anyway.
Slightly harsh response to @Cookie's amiable comment about travel writing
Comments
As for follow up, I imagine he is waiting to see what else emerges, which is probably a sensible move. Because
1. It's still deeply murky, there is so much we do not know which is slowly emerging
2. The Mail says it is now fighting more injunctions, which may expire next week, which presumably conceal more embarrassing shit from the imbecile government. Better to keep his ammo dry?
And I reread ny description of @IanB2 as "the Humbert Humbert of pet husbandry, trafficking his frightened dog across frontiers" with great pleasure, and no small pride
If Afghan matters remained in Afghanistan it might not be an issue which got much traction. But they have not.
https://www.themarketingblog.co.uk/2013/10/where-did-it-all-go-wrong-this-week-marks-50-years-since-george-best-made-his-united-debut/
Or, as others has found out, anyone else for the past thousand years or so.
Anyway lets get back to the 'tragically alone'. How on earth can you accuse someone of travelling 'tragically alone'. It means you are either 'tragic' yourself or wrong in your description.
All politicians of major parties, except the Greens of course, are conniving c-nts who lie about everything, even when the truth would serve them better.
The numbers of Afghan chancers are tiny compared to the brexitwave anyway.
Whatever the highly contested amount of money is, they would have just wasted it on something else anyway.
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