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One enabler of Hamas attacks another – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,519
edited June 13 in General
One enabler of Hamas attacks another – politicalbetting.com

Trump denies US involvement in strikesPresident Trump said he had been aware that Israel would launch strikes on Iran and had informed another Middle East ally of the imminent attack.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,570
    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,905

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    Lots of little pieces of buildings, objects and people.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,699
    Third, like the LibDems!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,731
    edited June 13
    Netanyahu has painted a huge target on the back of himself and his Cabinet. I suspect the world will not be rooting for Netanyahu.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,628

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,862
    Roger said:

    Netanyahu has painted a huge target on the back of himself and his Cabinet. I suspect the world will not be rooting for Netanyahu.

    LOL

    Roger he had a huge target on his back yesterday too and the number of allies of Israel has always been small. The only change is the Iranians might try harder to hit the target.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,731
    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    That might date more quickly than you think
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 944

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    These plunderers of the world, after exhausting the land by their devastations, are rifling the ocean: stimulated by avarice, if their enemy be rich; by ambition, if poor; unsatiated by the East and by the West: the only people who behold wealth and indigence with equal avidity. To ravage, to slaughter, to usurp under false titles, they call empire; and where they make a desert, they call it peace.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,862
    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    A very European perspective.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,913
    edited June 13
    As seen on twitter, we’ve been told for 30 years (which is roughly coterminous with Netanyahu’s corrupt leadership) that Iran is on the verge of developing a nuclear bomb.
    Those Iranians really are perfectionists.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,343
    Morning all.
    Grim stuff from the ME, obviously israel is now all in, things will escalate rapidly. Worth keeping an eye on Tehran as theres a non zero chance of an uprising against the Ayatollahs regime. What and who Iran hits determines if this goes much wider
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,731

    Roger said:

    Netanyahu has painted a huge target on the back of himself and his Cabinet. I suspect the world will not be rooting for Netanyahu.

    LOL

    Roger he had a huge target on his back yesterday too and the number of allies of Israel has always been small. The only change is the Iranians might try harder to hit the target.
    How was Ballymena?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,310

    As seen on twitter, we’ve been told for 30 years (which is roughly coterminous with Netanyahu’s corrupt leadership) that Iran is on the verge of developing a nuclear bomb.
    Those Iranians really are perfectionists.

    That sounds like the Y2K fallacy: "People warned about x, and x didn't happen, so it was all lies."

    A lot has been done to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear bomb over the last several decades. There was the stuxnet computer virus that I believe wrecked a bunch of centrifuges. There were diplomatic negotiations and deals (which I believe Trump wrecked because it was something Obama did).
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,862
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Netanyahu has painted a huge target on the back of himself and his Cabinet. I suspect the world will not be rooting for Netanyahu.

    LOL

    Roger he had a huge target on his back yesterday too and the number of allies of Israel has always been small. The only change is the Iranians might try harder to hit the target.
    How was Ballymena?
    The warm up to the Marching season.

    Belfast and Derry will have their traditional riots round the 12 July fuelled by punch the neighbours politics and Buckfast.

    Might I suggest you spend a week there, it may inspire some creative ideas.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,563
    edited June 13

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    A very European perspective.
    It’s also very correct unless and until China attacks Taiwan.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,189

    Morning all.
    Grim stuff from the ME, obviously israel is now all in, things will escalate rapidly. Worth keeping an eye on Tehran as theres a non zero chance of an uprising against the Ayatollahs regime. What and who Iran hits determines if this goes much wider

    This reduces the chance of an uprising against the Ayatollahs regime.
    I think the Iranian people will come together to face the common enemy Israel.
    If Iran can develop a nuclear bomb "in days" this will encourage them to get on with it.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,698

    As seen on twitter, we’ve been told for 30 years (which is roughly coterminous with Netanyahu’s corrupt leadership) that Iran is on the verge of developing a nuclear bomb.
    Those Iranians really are perfectionists.

    They’ve certainly been trying. The facility hit by StuxNet was refining Uranian for bomb production.

    Whether they’ve succeeded in making any seems to be unknown? In the modern era it’s not very hard to make a crude nuclear device - it’s obtaining the right Uranium or Plutonium isotopes in sufficient quantities that’s the hard bit.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,731

    As seen on twitter, we’ve been told for 30 years (which is roughly coterminous with Netanyahu’s corrupt leadership) that Iran is on the verge of developing a nuclear bomb.
    Those Iranians really are perfectionists.

    Odd that no one questions the Israelis nuclear weapons. A question the BBC studiously avoids
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,316
    edited June 13

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    If he says he's brought peace, he's brought peace. Newsmax, Fox, X posters and the New York Post won't contradict his absurd assertions. Even formerly critical publications and broadcasters are acquiescing. See the Terry Moran case.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,837

    As seen on twitter, we’ve been told for 30 years (which is roughly coterminous with Netanyahu’s corrupt leadership) that Iran is on the verge of developing a nuclear bomb.
    Those Iranians really are perfectionists.

    That sounds like the Y2K fallacy: "People warned about x, and x didn't happen, so it was all lies."

    A lot has been done to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear bomb over the last several decades. There was the stuxnet computer virus that I believe wrecked a bunch of centrifuges. There were diplomatic negotiations and deals (which I believe Trump wrecked because it was something Obama did).
    That's what I was going to write. Iran wants nukes; but their nuclear program has proved a useful way for them to gain advantageous deals with the west. Some of these deals involved slowing down refinement, not stopping it. Then there were the other ways, often kinetic and/or explosive, that their program was hindered.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,862
    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    A very European perspective.
    It’s also very correct unless and until China attacks Taiwan.
    That rather depends where you live. In Europe Putin is the problem in the ME its Iran or Israel in the States its China and Mexico in India its Pakistan and vice versa.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,241
    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    Recall he dumped the Obama nuclear deal with Iran, during his first administration.
    But yes, his idiocy in Ukraine is far more clearcut.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,310
    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    A very European perspective.
    It’s also very correct unless and until China attacks Taiwan.
    Oh, I dunno. The pressure of the Ukraine War seems to have created something very much like the axis of evil of George W. Bush's rhetoric, with Russia, Iran and North Korea developing a strong relationship.

    Perhaps the mistake is to view these events as though they were disconnected.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,837
    Roger said:

    As seen on twitter, we’ve been told for 30 years (which is roughly coterminous with Netanyahu’s corrupt leadership) that Iran is on the verge of developing a nuclear bomb.
    Those Iranians really are perfectionists.

    Odd that no one questions the Israelis nuclear weapons. A question the BBC studiously avoids
    What's to question? Israel has had nukes for decades, and has never used them.

    Odd that you studiously ignore the negative stuff Iran does to its neighbours and the region...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,862
    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    Recall he dumped the Obama nuclear deal with Iran, during his first administration.
    But yes, his idiocy in Ukraine is far more clearcut.
    Why's it his idiocy ? Why is the idiocy not European governments who ran down their defence capabilities and let Putin do what he wanted on their doorsteps ?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,705
    Jan 6 protestor arrested for child pornography argues Trump’s pardon means the child pornography charge has no basis because they only looked on his computer because of Jan 6.

    https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/not-the-typical-case-jan-6-defendant-asks-judge-to-apply-trumps-mass-pardon-to-child-pornography-charge/
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,310

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    Recall he dumped the Obama nuclear deal with Iran, during his first administration.
    But yes, his idiocy in Ukraine is far more clearcut.
    Why's it his idiocy ? Why is the idiocy not European governments who ran down their defence capabilities and let Putin do what he wanted on their doorsteps ?
    Multiple idiocies are possible, but Trump's actions and inactions over Ukraine are much more damaging than that of [most] European governments.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,913

    As seen on twitter, we’ve been told for 30 years (which is roughly coterminous with Netanyahu’s corrupt leadership) that Iran is on the verge of developing a nuclear bomb.
    Those Iranians really are perfectionists.

    That sounds like the Y2K fallacy: "People warned about x, and x didn't happen, so it was all lies."

    A lot has been done to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear bomb over the last several decades. There was the stuxnet computer virus that I believe wrecked a bunch of centrifuges. There were diplomatic negotiations and deals (which I believe Trump wrecked because it was something Obama did).
    That appears to contain a contradiction, we (‘we’ being a somewhat elastic concept in this case) must take immediate action to stop threat X from happening despite us trying to wreck previous efforts to prevent X happening.
    Anyway I’ve read on PB that the only reliable defence worth having for a nation is a nuclear one. A principle is a principle, regardless of the regimes involved.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,797

    Jan 6 protestor arrested for child pornography argues Trump’s pardon means the child pornography charge has no basis because they only looked on his computer because of Jan 6.

    https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/not-the-typical-case-jan-6-defendant-asks-judge-to-apply-trumps-mass-pardon-to-child-pornography-charge/

    Biden pardoned his own son of serious crimes after promising for many months he would do no such thing “because Democrats believe in the rule of law”

    Then he pardoned Antony Fauci of things he MIGHT have done. Like enable the deaths of 20 million people
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,563
    edited June 13

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    A very European perspective.
    It’s also very correct unless and until China attacks Taiwan.
    That rather depends where you live. In Europe Putin is the problem in the ME its Iran or Israel in the States its China and Mexico in India its Pakistan and vice versa.
    Israel would very much like us to believe it is defending the free world, of course.

    It seems you’ve gone fully for the MAGA world view: that there is no longer a free world, just regional powers and their legitimate spheres of influence.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,797
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    A very European perspective.
    It’s also very correct unless and until China attacks Taiwan.
    That rather depends where you live. In Europe Putin is the problem in the ME its Iran or Israel in the States its China and Mexico in India its Pakistan and vice versa.
    Israel would very much like us to believe it is defending the free world, of course.

    It seems you’ve gone fully for the MAGA world view: that there is no longer a free world, just regional powers and their legitimate spheres of influence.
    Because that is the case. Britons aren’t obviously freer than Chinese people. We lock people up for tweets and now we have a blasphemy law
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,862

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    Recall he dumped the Obama nuclear deal with Iran, during his first administration.
    But yes, his idiocy in Ukraine is far more clearcut.
    Why's it his idiocy ? Why is the idiocy not European governments who ran down their defence capabilities and let Putin do what he wanted on their doorsteps ?
    Multiple idiocies are possible, but Trump's actions and inactions over Ukraine are much more damaging than that of [most] European governments.
    Garbage. The EU sits on Putins doorstep. The initial German reaction to the invasion was to say nothing could be done.If your sat in the US you have the Middle and China to manage as well as Putin. the European governments just want someone to do the hard work for them rather than sort their own mess out. Oh and pay for it too.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,659
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    A very European perspective.
    It’s also very correct unless and until China attacks Taiwan.
    That rather depends where you live. In Europe Putin is the problem in the ME its Iran or Israel in the States its China and Mexico in India its Pakistan and vice versa.
    Israel would very much like us to believe it is defending the free world, of course.

    It seems you’ve gone fully for the MAGA world view: that there is no longer a free world, just regional powers and their legitimate spheres of influence.
    Because that is the case. Britons aren’t obviously freer than Chinese people. We lock people up for tweets and now we have a blasphemy law
    I think the bit in bold says more about your ability to see the obvious than it does about the relative freedom of British and Chinese people.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,913
    Roger said:

    As seen on twitter, we’ve been told for 30 years (which is roughly coterminous with Netanyahu’s corrupt leadership) that Iran is on the verge of developing a nuclear bomb.
    Those Iranians really are perfectionists.

    Odd that no one questions the Israelis nuclear weapons. A question the BBC studiously avoids
    At least Israel is a peace loving nation that is no threat to its neighbours.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,752
    Do we have a donations link for PB, @TSE ?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,563

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    Recall he dumped the Obama nuclear deal with Iran, during his first administration.
    But yes, his idiocy in Ukraine is far more clearcut.
    Why's it his idiocy ? Why is the idiocy not European governments who ran down their defence capabilities and let Putin do what he wanted on their doorsteps ?
    Multiple idiocies are possible, but Trump's actions and inactions over Ukraine are much more damaging than that of [most] European governments.
    Garbage. The EU sits on Putins doorstep. The initial German reaction to the invasion was to say nothing could be done.If your sat in the US you have the Middle and China to manage as well as Putin. the European governments just want someone to do the hard work for them rather than sort their own mess out. Oh and pay for it too.
    Europe is a continent of dozens of countries, one actually at war with Russia, several on a virtual war footing and spending way more than we do, others not interested. The weakest link is and has for a long time been Italy, more than Germany. You can’t generalise about the region anymore than you can about North America or the Middle East.

    America whinges about freeloaders but its military investments around the world have been in its economic and security self interest. They bought it global hegemony for decades.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,797
    Has everyone had breakfast? If not I can recommend a dish from Tim Ecott’s “The Land of Maybe: A Faroes Year”

    Rognaknettir: they’re dumplings - deep fried, and made from cod roe, raisins, and the fat from around a sheep’s rectum

    That would go perfectly with a nice pot of Earl Grey
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,563
    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    A very European perspective.
    It’s also very correct unless and until China attacks Taiwan.
    That rather depends where you live. In Europe Putin is the problem in the ME its Iran or Israel in the States its China and Mexico in India its Pakistan and vice versa.
    Israel would very much like us to believe it is defending the free world, of course.

    It seems you’ve gone fully for the MAGA world view: that there is no longer a free world, just regional powers and their legitimate spheres of influence.
    Because that is the case. Britons aren’t obviously freer than Chinese people. We lock people up for tweets and now we have a blasphemy law
    I think the bit in bold says more about your ability to see the obvious than it does about the relative freedom of British and Chinese people.
    It just illustrates his talent for hyperbole and trolling.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,938
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    Recall he dumped the Obama nuclear deal with Iran, during his first administration.
    But yes, his idiocy in Ukraine is far more clearcut.
    Why's it his idiocy ? Why is the idiocy not European governments who ran down their defence capabilities and let Putin do what he wanted on their doorsteps ?
    Multiple idiocies are possible, but Trump's actions and inactions over Ukraine are much more damaging than that of [most] European governments.
    Garbage. The EU sits on Putins doorstep. The initial German reaction to the invasion was to say nothing could be done.If your sat in the US you have the Middle and China to manage as well as Putin. the European governments just want someone to do the hard work for them rather than sort their own mess out. Oh and pay for it too.
    Europe is a continent of dozens of countries, one actually at war with Russia, several on a virtual war footing and spending way more than we do, others not interested. The weakest link is and has for a long time been Italy, more than Germany. You can’t generalise about the region anymore than you can about North America or the Middle East.

    America whinges about freeloaders but its military investments around the world have been in its economic and security self interest. They bought it global hegemony for decades.
    And all governments and all of those nations were perfectly happy with it too.

    Quite frankly we have freeloaded but that was the price.

    Europe now needs to step up to the plate.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,563
    edited June 13
    Leon said:

    Has everyone had breakfast? If not I can recommend a dish from Tim Ecott’s “The Land of Maybe: A Faroes Year”

    Rognaknettir: they’re dumplings - deep fried, and made from cod roe, raisins, and the fat from around a sheep’s rectum

    That would go perfectly with a nice pot of Earl Grey

    Leaving aside the vivid descriptions, I imagine those would taste quite nice. Deep fried - good. Cod roe - nice. Sheep’s rectum fat - I assume soft with a low melting point.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,731

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Netanyahu has painted a huge target on the back of himself and his Cabinet. I suspect the world will not be rooting for Netanyahu.

    LOL

    Roger he had a huge target on his back yesterday too and the number of allies of Israel has always been small. The only change is the Iranians might try harder to hit the target.
    How was Ballymena?
    The warm up to the Marching season.

    Belfast and Derry will have their traditional riots round the 12 July fuelled by punch the neighbours politics and Buckfast.

    Might I suggest you spend a week there, it may inspire some creative ideas.
    Giving the old bowler an outing?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,343
    Israeli sources saying they expect the operation to last two weeks. In your dreams.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,563
    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    Recall he dumped the Obama nuclear deal with Iran, during his first administration.
    But yes, his idiocy in Ukraine is far more clearcut.
    Why's it his idiocy ? Why is the idiocy not European governments who ran down their defence capabilities and let Putin do what he wanted on their doorsteps ?
    Multiple idiocies are possible, but Trump's actions and inactions over Ukraine are much more damaging than that of [most] European governments.
    Garbage. The EU sits on Putins doorstep. The initial German reaction to the invasion was to say nothing could be done.If your sat in the US you have the Middle and China to manage as well as Putin. the European governments just want someone to do the hard work for them rather than sort their own mess out. Oh and pay for it too.
    Europe is a continent of dozens of countries, one actually at war with Russia, several on a virtual war footing and spending way more than we do, others not interested. The weakest link is and has for a long time been Italy, more than Germany. You can’t generalise about the region anymore than you can about North America or the Middle East.

    America whinges about freeloaders but its military investments around the world have been in its economic and security self interest. They bought it global hegemony for decades.
    And all governments and all of those nations were perfectly happy with it too.

    Quite frankly we have freeloaded but that was the price.

    Europe now needs to step up to the plate.
    *certain countries in Europe* - my point from the original post. Hard to accuse Poland or Estonia or Finland of freeloading. The rest of us it seems would be best off building dozens of mass factories to make drones.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,626

    Israeli sources saying they expect the operation to last two weeks. In your dreams.

    Is that Russian SMO weeks (about 10-15 years)?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,913
    edited June 13
    I know it’s minor in the scale of things, but Israel’s taste for grandiose religio-nationalist code names for their SMOs is pretty wanky. The strike on Iran is apparently Operation Rising Lion, while their equivalent to Airforce One, Wing of Zion, is currently in the air possibly carrying its precious Bibi cargo.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,088
    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    Recall he dumped the Obama nuclear deal with Iran, during his first administration.
    But yes, his idiocy in Ukraine is far more clearcut.
    Why's it his idiocy ? Why is the idiocy not European governments who ran down their defence capabilities and let Putin do what he wanted on their doorsteps ?
    Multiple idiocies are possible, but Trump's actions and inactions over Ukraine are much more damaging than that of [most] European governments.
    Garbage. The EU sits on Putins doorstep. The initial German reaction to the invasion was to say nothing could be done.If your sat in the US you have the Middle and China to manage as well as Putin. the European governments just want someone to do the hard work for them rather than sort their own mess out. Oh and pay for it too.
    Europe is a continent of dozens of countries, one actually at war with Russia, several on a virtual war footing and spending way more than we do, others not interested. The weakest link is and has for a long time been Italy, more than Germany. You can’t generalise about the region anymore than you can about North America or the Middle East.

    America whinges about freeloaders but its military investments around the world have been in its economic and security self interest. They bought it global hegemony for decades.
    And all governments and all of those nations were perfectly happy with it too.

    Quite frankly we have freeloaded but that was the price.

    Europe now needs to step up to the plate.
    *certain countries in Europe* - my point from the original post. Hard to accuse Poland or Estonia or Finland of freeloading. The rest of us it seems would be best off building dozens of mass factories to make drones.
    Best off inventing something to shoot down drones.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,913
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    A very European perspective.
    It’s also very correct unless and until China attacks Taiwan.
    That rather depends where you live. In Europe Putin is the problem in the ME its Iran or Israel in the States its China and Mexico in India its Pakistan and vice versa.
    Israel would very much like us to believe it is defending the free world, of course.

    It seems you’ve gone fully for the MAGA world view: that there is no longer a free world, just regional powers and their legitimate spheres of influence.
    Because that is the case. Britons aren’t obviously freer than Chinese people. We lock people up for tweets and now we have a blasphemy law
    I think the bit in bold says more about your ability to see the obvious than it does about the relative freedom of British and Chinese people.
    It just illustrates his talent for hyperbole and trolling.
    No, it illustrates the talent of the pb Centrist Dads in ignoring what is now plainly apparent. We were once sort of free to speak, if never quite as free as the Americans

    Those days have gone. Look at what we are allowed to talk about and not talk about. Look at what you are forbidden to say - it’s a long long list in the UK. Say it in the wrong way and you go to jail

    Look at the subjects banned on here. Look at the online safety act. Look at hate speech laws. Look at the new blasphemy acts. Look at the teacher in Batley. We are NOT FREE

    As you’ve often noted, PB resembles a pub, one that’s owned and run by someone else. You’re perfectly free to open your own pub where you can spout any old shite.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,563
    edited June 13
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    A very European perspective.
    It’s also very correct unless and until China attacks Taiwan.
    That rather depends where you live. In Europe Putin is the problem in the ME its Iran or Israel in the States its China and Mexico in India its Pakistan and vice versa.
    Israel would very much like us to believe it is defending the free world, of course.

    It seems you’ve gone fully for the MAGA world view: that there is no longer a free world, just regional powers and their legitimate spheres of influence.
    Because that is the case. Britons aren’t obviously freer than Chinese people. We lock people up for tweets and now we have a blasphemy law
    I think the bit in bold says more about your ability to see the obvious than it does about the relative freedom of British and Chinese people.
    It just illustrates his talent for hyperbole and trolling.
    No, it illustrates the talent of the pb Centrist Dads in ignoring what is now plainly apparent. We were once sort of free to speak, if never quite as free as the Americans

    Those days have gone. Look at what we are allowed to talk about and not talk about. Look at what you are forbidden to say - it’s a long long list in the UK. Say it in the wrong way and you go to jail

    Look at the subjects banned on here. Look at the online safety act. Look at hate speech laws. Look at the new blasphemy acts. Look at the teacher in Batley. We are NOT FREE

    We are many many degrees freer than China on almost every count. It’s possibly marginally less frowned upon to threaten Muslims with violence in China, though even then I expect only if in strict adherence with their mass surveillance policies on Xinjiang.

    I was on a call with a client and my Chinese colleague yesterday talking through the paperwork required to issue an invoice for a price adjustment, receive cash for it and then remit the cash back to the UK. Several months, multiple documents, sign off by Shanghai SAFE, and then they might actually let them move a bit of money around.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,265
    Morning world watchers,

    Has @Leon said "brace" yet?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,752
    Leon said:

    Has everyone had breakfast? If not I can recommend a dish from Tim Ecott’s “The Land of Maybe: A Faroes Year”

    Rognaknettir: they’re dumplings - deep fried, and made from cod roe, raisins, and the fat from around a sheep’s rectum

    That would go perfectly with a nice pot of Earl Grey

    Hmmm. Earl Grey, you say?

    I might have thought a stronger blend with roe and sweet bits - Earl Grey is a bit 'dishwater'.

    Perhaps something more "Yorkshire Tea"?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,797
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Has everyone had breakfast? If not I can recommend a dish from Tim Ecott’s “The Land of Maybe: A Faroes Year”

    Rognaknettir: they’re dumplings - deep fried, and made from cod roe, raisins, and the fat from around a sheep’s rectum

    That would go perfectly with a nice pot of Earl Grey

    Leaving aside the vivid descriptions, I imagine those would taste quite nice. Deep fried - good. Cod roe - nice. Sheep’s rectum fat - I assume soft with a low melting point.
    Yes this MAY be a case of the description being worse than the dish. However they really do eat some truly disgusting things here - I’ve tried them. They’re brilliantly hideous. Rotting - aka “fermented” - lamb and mutton might be the worst - Ræst kjøt

    It smells hideous - for a very good reason. It’s rotting. Your brain is saying via your nose: don’t eat this. And then you do and - it’s even worse than the smell

    Pilot whale blubber is ok in comparison, but “rindin” - the black hard chewy skin - is simply weird. Like eating a slice of patent leather shoe

    Hilariously the other night my lovely Faroese lady host admitted she’d never eaten “rindin” but after a few glasses we, her guests, persuaded her to have a go and she did - then instantly vommed it into the sink

    When a Faroese person reflexively pukes up Faroese food you know it’s got to be quite extreme

    I love it here
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,265
    "Trump will attend a national security council meeting on Friday morning, in the wake of the strikes. The meeting will be held at 11am (1500 GMT)" - Guardian


    Gabbard and Hegseth will fill in him by showing Fox News clips I guess.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,797

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    A very European perspective.
    It’s also very correct unless and until China attacks Taiwan.
    That rather depends where you live. In Europe Putin is the problem in the ME its Iran or Israel in the States its China and Mexico in India its Pakistan and vice versa.
    Israel would very much like us to believe it is defending the free world, of course.

    It seems you’ve gone fully for the MAGA world view: that there is no longer a free world, just regional powers and their legitimate spheres of influence.
    Because that is the case. Britons aren’t obviously freer than Chinese people. We lock people up for tweets and now we have a blasphemy law
    I think the bit in bold says more about your ability to see the obvious than it does about the relative freedom of British and Chinese people.
    It just illustrates his talent for hyperbole and trolling.
    No, it illustrates the talent of the pb Centrist Dads in ignoring what is now plainly apparent. We were once sort of free to speak, if never quite as free as the Americans

    Those days have gone. Look at what we are allowed to talk about and not talk about. Look at what you are forbidden to say - it’s a long long list in the UK. Say it in the wrong way and you go to jail

    Look at the subjects banned on here. Look at the online safety act. Look at hate speech laws. Look at the new blasphemy acts. Look at the teacher in Batley. We are NOT FREE

    As you’ve often noted, PB resembles a pub, one that’s owned and run by someone else. You’re perfectly free to open your own pub where you can spout any old shite.
    Yeah but I can’t open my own country, can I?

    To be fair you gave it a go, but then most of you decided to stick with Mother England
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,938
    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    Recall he dumped the Obama nuclear deal with Iran, during his first administration.
    But yes, his idiocy in Ukraine is far more clearcut.
    Iran were clearly flouting the agreement so he was right to do so.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,804

    "Trump will attend a national security council meeting on Friday morning, in the wake of the strikes. The meeting will be held at 11am (1500 GMT)" - Guardian


    Gabbard and Hegseth will fill in him by showing Fox News clips I guess.

    @AllieRenison

    Why on earth is Marco Rubio rather than the *President* being quoted in this statement from the *White House*…

    https://x.com/AllieRenison/status/1933419291367584128

    Is it perhaps because he's a senile old man who needs a nap?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,343

    Israeli sources saying they expect the operation to last two weeks. In your dreams.

    Is that Russian SMO weeks (about 10-15 years)?
    Sounds right!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,804

    As you’ve often noted, PB resembles a pub, one that’s owned and run by someone else. You’re perfectly free to open your own pub where you can spout any old shite.

    Or indeed fuck off to China to be "free"
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,563

    I know it’s minor in the scale of things, but Israel’s taste for grandiose religio-nationalist code names for their SMOs is pretty wanky. The strike on Iran is apparently Operation Rising Lion, while their equivalent to Airforce One, Wing of Zion, is currently in the air possibly carrying its precious Bibi cargo.

    Each country has its own taste in these things. US ones are usually two-word monikers evoking Hollywood films of the 80s and 90s. Operation point break, operation basic instinct, operation fatal attraction. British ones tend either to have a chivalric edge with a focus on ancient weapons: operation swift scimitar, or operation clashing sword; or a domestic randomness: operation cream tea, operation Nuneaton etc.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,343
    edited June 13
    Reforms stranglehold on the red wall consolidated overnight with a massive double win in Mansfield and the win in Leeds (Cons came 6th in the ward in Andrea Jenkyns and Ed Balls old seat)
    Northants counting from 9, and we will see if Reforms cock up on the ballot costs them
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,913
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    A very European perspective.
    It’s also very correct unless and until China attacks Taiwan.
    That rather depends where you live. In Europe Putin is the problem in the ME its Iran or Israel in the States its China and Mexico in India its Pakistan and vice versa.
    Israel would very much like us to believe it is defending the free world, of course.

    It seems you’ve gone fully for the MAGA world view: that there is no longer a free world, just regional powers and their legitimate spheres of influence.
    Because that is the case. Britons aren’t obviously freer than Chinese people. We lock people up for tweets and now we have a blasphemy law
    I think the bit in bold says more about your ability to see the obvious than it does about the relative freedom of British and Chinese people.
    It just illustrates his talent for hyperbole and trolling.
    No, it illustrates the talent of the pb Centrist Dads in ignoring what is now plainly apparent. We were once sort of free to speak, if never quite as free as the Americans

    Those days have gone. Look at what we are allowed to talk about and not talk about. Look at what you are forbidden to say - it’s a long long list in the UK. Say it in the wrong way and you go to jail

    Look at the subjects banned on here. Look at the online safety act. Look at hate speech laws. Look at the new blasphemy acts. Look at the teacher in Batley. We are NOT FREE

    As you’ve often noted, PB resembles a pub, one that’s owned and run by someone else. You’re perfectly free to open your own pub where you can spout any old shite.
    Yeah but I can’t open my own country, can I?

    To be fair you gave it a go, but then most of you decided to stick with Mother England
    I’m glad that we’ve cleared up that dishonest bollocks about it being the UK rather than Mother England.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,317

    I know it’s minor in the scale of things, but Israel’s taste for grandiose religio-nationalist code names for their SMOs is pretty wanky. The strike on Iran is apparently Operation Rising Lion, while their equivalent to Airforce One, Wing of Zion, is currently in the air possibly carrying its precious Bibi cargo.

    I have always felt slightly proud of the obscurity of British names for our operations. Could a less heroic name ever have been suggested than 'operation market garden'?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,862
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    A very European perspective.
    It’s also very correct unless and until China attacks Taiwan.
    That rather depends where you live. In Europe Putin is the problem in the ME its Iran or Israel in the States its China and Mexico in India its Pakistan and vice versa.
    Israel would very much like us to believe it is defending the free world, of course.

    It seems you’ve gone fully for the MAGA world view: that there is no longer a free world, just regional powers and their legitimate spheres of influence.
    Or maybe it;s you cant understand when a major ally like the US has several other issues on its plate such as China and Europe needs to do more of the lifting.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,913
    Cookie said:

    I know it’s minor in the scale of things, but Israel’s taste for grandiose religio-nationalist code names for their SMOs is pretty wanky. The strike on Iran is apparently Operation Rising Lion, while their equivalent to Airforce One, Wing of Zion, is currently in the air possibly carrying its precious Bibi cargo.

    I have always felt slightly proud of the obscurity of British names for our operations. Could a less heroic name ever have been suggested than 'operation market garden'?
    I think Operation Allotment might have had the edge, though Market Garden does have a nation of shopkeepers vibe.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,862
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    Recall he dumped the Obama nuclear deal with Iran, during his first administration.
    But yes, his idiocy in Ukraine is far more clearcut.
    Why's it his idiocy ? Why is the idiocy not European governments who ran down their defence capabilities and let Putin do what he wanted on their doorsteps ?
    Multiple idiocies are possible, but Trump's actions and inactions over Ukraine are much more damaging than that of [most] European governments.
    Garbage. The EU sits on Putins doorstep. The initial German reaction to the invasion was to say nothing could be done.If your sat in the US you have the Middle and China to manage as well as Putin. the European governments just want someone to do the hard work for them rather than sort their own mess out. Oh and pay for it too.
    Europe is a continent of dozens of countries, one actually at war with Russia, several on a virtual war footing and spending way more than we do, others not interested. The weakest link is and has for a long time been Italy, more than Germany. You can’t generalise about the region anymore than you can about North America or the Middle East.

    America whinges about freeloaders but its military investments around the world have been in its economic and security self interest. They bought it global hegemony for decades.
    And now things are changing. Europe ran its defences down and laughed for years when the US crtiticised it, Then along came Putin. Europe and Obama could have called Putin out in 2014 over Crimea but didnt. Now Europe has to put its hand in its pocket and stop moaning. Poland for obvios reasons has been building up its armed forced for years Germany, France UK could have too but chose not to.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,321
    Cookie said:

    I know it’s minor in the scale of things, but Israel’s taste for grandiose religio-nationalist code names for their SMOs is pretty wanky. The strike on Iran is apparently Operation Rising Lion, while their equivalent to Airforce One, Wing of Zion, is currently in the air possibly carrying its precious Bibi cargo.

    I have always felt slightly proud of the obscurity of British names for our operations. Could a less heroic name ever have been suggested than 'operation market garden'?
    I’ve always been a fan of Operation Husky.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,862
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Netanyahu has painted a huge target on the back of himself and his Cabinet. I suspect the world will not be rooting for Netanyahu.

    LOL

    Roger he had a huge target on his back yesterday too and the number of allies of Israel has always been small. The only change is the Iranians might try harder to hit the target.
    How was Ballymena?
    The warm up to the Marching season.

    Belfast and Derry will have their traditional riots round the 12 July fuelled by punch the neighbours politics and Buckfast.

    Might I suggest you spend a week there, it may inspire some creative ideas.
    Giving the old bowler an outing?
    I eas enjoying the marketing of Alica a new bank

    Their logo is an orange bowler hat.

    I assume West Belfast is not the target market
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,088
    Indicative data shows Albanians are 153x more likely to be convicted of a drug offence than Brits.

    And that Eritreans are 20x more likely to be convicted of sex offences.

    I am proposing a law change to force the release of the full facts about migrant crime & end the cover up.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1933419806608298463

    Bob's embedded walk-and-talk video helpfully includes a screenshot of the last time this former immigration minister proposed such a law. It seems to be dated March 2024. Bloody Keir Starmer and his time machine!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,653
    Strange 24 hours. I wonder if the Padilla incident, getting a bit lost in 787 crash and Israel attacking Iran, might be the one with the greater long term significance.

    That Israel was going to strike to try to ensure Iran does not a bomb was inevitable, and has been for years. Not long ago the FBI taking out senior politicians, and quite happy to have it all videoed, for talking at a press conference was not inevitable.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,797
    There’s an entire short funny book to be written on the mad foods eaten in far Northern Europe, and the Atlantic sub-Arctic

    The seabirds alone. Omg. Sometimes eaten whole - beak, claws, feathers

    The holy grail - the ne plus ultra - the Ultima Gastro-Thule - of such foods is the “fermented skate” of Iceland. Kæst Skata

    I’m told it’s not just the worst food in the world, it’s the worst food imaginable

    I’ve heard it described as like eating mucus soaked in bleach with your head down a urinal

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,182

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    Lots of little pieces of buildings, objects and people.
    It’s one way to clear the site for the next Trump Tower
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 994
    Cookie said:

    I know it’s minor in the scale of things, but Israel’s taste for grandiose religio-nationalist code names for their SMOs is pretty wanky. The strike on Iran is apparently Operation Rising Lion, while their equivalent to Airforce One, Wing of Zion, is currently in the air possibly carrying its precious Bibi cargo.

    I have always felt slightly proud of the obscurity of British names for our operations. Could a less heroic name ever have been suggested than 'operation market garden'?
    I like the boringly bureaucratic names for secret projects. Tube Alloys for the British Nuclear project and Wintex Cimex for the NATO doomsday exercise. They sounds like the kind of boring business that Reggie Perrin might work for
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,797
    Israel: MOSSAD had a secret drone base in Iran.

    Drones were used to strike ballistic missile launchers at a base near Tehran, preventing Iran from firing missiles at Israel when the attacks began this morning.

    In addition, a Mossad commando team deployed guided weapon systems in central Iran, close to Iranian air defense sites. The weapons hit the air defense sites, preventing them from targeting Israeli fighter jets.

    🇮🇱 Israeli media:
    Mossad sabotaged Iranian air defenses before airstrikes

    Before launching its air operation, Mossad carried out a series of sabotage attacks inside Iran, disabling radar systems and air defense units. This paved the way for a “decapitation strike” aimed at the Iranian military leadership.

    https://x.com/sprinterobserve/status/1933432364253716705?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,182
    Roger said:

    As seen on twitter, we’ve been told for 30 years (which is roughly coterminous with Netanyahu’s corrupt leadership) that Iran is on the verge of developing a nuclear bomb.
    Those Iranians really are perfectionists.

    Odd that no one questions the Israelis nuclear weapons. A question the BBC studiously avoids
    Because there’s no real evidence. There’s a lot of speculation and, IIRC, about 20 years ago the Sunday Times had a whole series of stories from someone involved in the program(me)* - but not really much to say while everyone keeps stumm.

    * just for @Luckyguy1983
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,804
    Stereodog said:

    Cookie said:

    I know it’s minor in the scale of things, but Israel’s taste for grandiose religio-nationalist code names for their SMOs is pretty wanky. The strike on Iran is apparently Operation Rising Lion, while their equivalent to Airforce One, Wing of Zion, is currently in the air possibly carrying its precious Bibi cargo.

    I have always felt slightly proud of the obscurity of British names for our operations. Could a less heroic name ever have been suggested than 'operation market garden'?
    I like the boringly bureaucratic names for secret projects. Tube Alloys for the British Nuclear project and Wintex Cimex for the NATO doomsday exercise. They sounds like the kind of boring business that Reggie Perrin might work for
    A tank is called a tank because the they were codenamed as water tanks IIRC
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,659
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    A very European perspective.
    It’s also very correct unless and until China attacks Taiwan.
    That rather depends where you live. In Europe Putin is the problem in the ME its Iran or Israel in the States its China and Mexico in India its Pakistan and vice versa.
    Israel would very much like us to believe it is defending the free world, of course.

    It seems you’ve gone fully for the MAGA world view: that there is no longer a free world, just regional powers and their legitimate spheres of influence.
    Because that is the case. Britons aren’t obviously freer than Chinese people. We lock people up for tweets and now we have a blasphemy law
    I think the bit in bold says more about your ability to see the obvious than it does about the relative freedom of British and Chinese people.
    It just illustrates his talent for hyperbole and trolling.
    No, it illustrates the talent of the pb Centrist Dads in ignoring what is now plainly apparent. We were once sort of free to speak, if never quite as free as the Americans

    Those days have gone. Look at what we are allowed to talk about and not talk about. Look at what you are forbidden to say - it’s a long long list in the UK. Say it in the wrong way and you go to jail

    Look at the subjects banned on here. Look at the online safety act. Look at hate speech laws. Look at the new blasphemy acts. Look at the teacher in Batley. We are NOT FREE

    We are relatively more free than both your examples (China and America).

    In China you are only free if your face fits.

    In America you are only free if you are rich.

    We suffer both flaws, but not to the same degree.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,182
    Leon said:

    Jan 6 protestor arrested for child pornography argues Trump’s pardon means the child pornography charge has no basis because they only looked on his computer because of Jan 6.

    https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/not-the-typical-case-jan-6-defendant-asks-judge-to-apply-trumps-mass-pardon-to-child-pornography-charge/

    Biden pardoned his own son of serious crimes after promising for many months he would do no such thing “because Democrats believe in the rule of law”

    Then he pardoned Antony Fauci of things he MIGHT have done. Like enable the deaths of 20 million people
    The Hunter Biden pardon was an error, but it is too strong to really argue they were “serious offences”.

    The Fauci one was because Trump had been clear he intended to go after a public servant for making judgements about what to do in a very difficult situation. Pre-emptive defence
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,913
    Saudis overcoming distaste for the mullahs it seems.

    https://x.com/ksamofaen/status/1933381978138493065?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,088
    Scott_xP said:

    Stereodog said:

    Cookie said:

    I know it’s minor in the scale of things, but Israel’s taste for grandiose religio-nationalist code names for their SMOs is pretty wanky. The strike on Iran is apparently Operation Rising Lion, while their equivalent to Airforce One, Wing of Zion, is currently in the air possibly carrying its precious Bibi cargo.

    I have always felt slightly proud of the obscurity of British names for our operations. Could a less heroic name ever have been suggested than 'operation market garden'?
    I like the boringly bureaucratic names for secret projects. Tube Alloys for the British Nuclear project and Wintex Cimex for the NATO doomsday exercise. They sounds like the kind of boring business that Reggie Perrin might work for
    A tank is called a tank because the they were codenamed as water tanks IIRC
    And tanks have hatches, hulls and periscopes because they were designed by the Admiralty.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,316
    edited June 13

    Indicative data shows Albanians are 153x more likely to be convicted of a drug offence than Brits.

    And that Eritreans are 20x more likely to be convicted of sex offences.

    I am proposing a law change to force the release of the full facts about migrant crime & end the cover up.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1933419806608298463

    Bob's embedded walk-and-talk video helpfully includes a screenshot of the last time this former immigration minister proposed such a law. It seems to be dated March 2024. Bloody Keir Starmer and his time machine!

    I don't believe Bob believes he was ever in Government, so can we clear that up please?And I am sure he was warning about the Starmerwave since it was introduced in 2019.

    Q. What have Enoch Powell and Robert Jenrick got in common? A. They are both from Wolverhampton.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,797

    Leon said:

    Jan 6 protestor arrested for child pornography argues Trump’s pardon means the child pornography charge has no basis because they only looked on his computer because of Jan 6.

    https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/not-the-typical-case-jan-6-defendant-asks-judge-to-apply-trumps-mass-pardon-to-child-pornography-charge/

    Biden pardoned his own son of serious crimes after promising for many months he would do no such thing “because Democrats believe in the rule of law”

    Then he pardoned Antony Fauci of things he MIGHT have done. Like enable the deaths of 20 million people
    The Hunter Biden pardon was an error, but it is too strong to really argue they were “serious offences”.

    The Fauci one was because Trump had been clear he intended to go after a public servant for making judgements about what to do in a very difficult situation. Pre-emptive defence
    Blah blah blah yawn
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,653
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    Recall he dumped the Obama nuclear deal with Iran, during his first administration.
    But yes, his idiocy in Ukraine is far more clearcut.
    Why's it his idiocy ? Why is the idiocy not European governments who ran down their defence capabilities and let Putin do what he wanted on their doorsteps ?
    Multiple idiocies are possible, but Trump's actions and inactions over Ukraine are much more damaging than that of [most] European governments.
    Garbage. The EU sits on Putins doorstep. The initial German reaction to the invasion was to say nothing could be done.If your sat in the US you have the Middle and China to manage as well as Putin. the European governments just want someone to do the hard work for them rather than sort their own mess out. Oh and pay for it too.
    Europe is a continent of dozens of countries, one actually at war with Russia, several on a virtual war footing and spending way more than we do, others not interested. The weakest link is and has for a long time been Italy, more than Germany. You can’t generalise about the region anymore than you can about North America or the Middle East.

    America whinges about freeloaders but its military investments around the world have been in its economic and security self interest. They bought it global hegemony for decades.
    The generalisation point needs a bit of nuance. It is possible to generalise about Europe in respect of NATO and its preparedness as a whole. I'm optimistically going to assume that somewhere (Brussels?) there is a small office with a typewriter and a secretary where a minor civil servant keeps a list of who can do what when duty calls under Art.5.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,088
    Heartbroken, I'm sure.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,039
    Stereodog said:

    Cookie said:

    I know it’s minor in the scale of things, but Israel’s taste for grandiose religio-nationalist code names for their SMOs is pretty wanky. The strike on Iran is apparently Operation Rising Lion, while their equivalent to Airforce One, Wing of Zion, is currently in the air possibly carrying its precious Bibi cargo.

    I have always felt slightly proud of the obscurity of British names for our operations. Could a less heroic name ever have been suggested than 'operation market garden'?
    I like the boringly bureaucratic names for secret projects. Tube Alloys for the British Nuclear project and Wintex Cimex for the NATO doomsday exercise. They sounds like the kind of boring business that Reggie Perrin might work for
    That was kicked off by a memo from Churchill on code names, IIRC. You can find it online.

    If you like those code names, have you come across the Rainbow Codes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Cheese_(missile) etc
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,563
    Primary school exhibiting ignorance of basic physics and human biology exhibit 1 this morning: an email to parents saying “it’s going to be hot today, please pack sun cream for your children”.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,182

    Cookie said:

    I know it’s minor in the scale of things, but Israel’s taste for grandiose religio-nationalist code names for their SMOs is pretty wanky. The strike on Iran is apparently Operation Rising Lion, while their equivalent to Airforce One, Wing of Zion, is currently in the air possibly carrying its precious Bibi cargo.

    I have always felt slightly proud of the obscurity of British names for our operations. Could a less heroic name ever have been suggested than 'operation market garden'?
    I think Operation Allotment might have had the edge, though Market Garden does have a nation of shopkeepers vibe.
    Although “operation mincemeat” is nicely mundane
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,913

    Cookie said:

    I know it’s minor in the scale of things, but Israel’s taste for grandiose religio-nationalist code names for their SMOs is pretty wanky. The strike on Iran is apparently Operation Rising Lion, while their equivalent to Airforce One, Wing of Zion, is currently in the air possibly carrying its precious Bibi cargo.

    I have always felt slightly proud of the obscurity of British names for our operations. Could a less heroic name ever have been suggested than 'operation market garden'?
    I think Operation Allotment might have had the edge, though Market Garden does have a nation of shopkeepers vibe.
    Although “operation mincemeat” is nicely mundane
    Well, up to a point. It’s association with a decomposing body makes me a bit queasy.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,182
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jan 6 protestor arrested for child pornography argues Trump’s pardon means the child pornography charge has no basis because they only looked on his computer because of Jan 6.

    https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/not-the-typical-case-jan-6-defendant-asks-judge-to-apply-trumps-mass-pardon-to-child-pornography-charge/

    Biden pardoned his own son of serious crimes after promising for many months he would do no such thing “because Democrats believe in the rule of law”

    Then he pardoned Antony Fauci of things he MIGHT have done. Like enable the deaths of 20 million people
    The Hunter Biden pardon was an error, but it is too strong to really argue they were “serious offences”.

    The Fauci one was because Trump had been clear he intended to go after a public servant for making judgements about what to do in a very difficult situation. Pre-emptive defence
    Blah blah blah yawn
    Can’t come up with a coherent argument then? As you were.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,804
    well, duh...

    @sentdefender

    Iranian state-run media reports that Iran will not participate in Sunday’s nuclear talks with the United States in Oman.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,241

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    Recall he dumped the Obama nuclear deal with Iran, during his first administration.
    But yes, his idiocy in Ukraine is far more clearcut.
    Why's it his idiocy ? Why is the idiocy not European governments who ran down their defence capabilities and let Putin do what he wanted on their doorsteps ?
    Multiple idiocies are possible, but Trump's actions and inactions over Ukraine are much more damaging than that of [most] European governments.
    Garbage. The EU sits on Putins doorstep. The initial German reaction to the invasion was to say nothing could be done.If your sat in the US you have the Middle and China to manage as well as Putin. the European governments just want someone to do the hard work for them rather than sort their own mess out. Oh and pay for it too.
    Europe is a continent of dozens of countries, one actually at war with Russia, several on a virtual war footing and spending way more than we do, others not interested. The weakest link is and has for a long time been Italy, more than Germany. You can’t generalise about the region anymore than you can about North America or the Middle East.

    America whinges about freeloaders but its military investments around the world have been in its economic and security self interest. They bought it global hegemony for decades.
    And all governments and all of those nations were perfectly happy with it too.

    Quite frankly we have freeloaded but that was the price.

    Europe now needs to step up to the plate.
    *certain countries in Europe* - my point from the original post. Hard to accuse Poland or Estonia or Finland of freeloading. The rest of us it seems would be best off building dozens of mass factories to make drones.
    Best off inventing something to shoot down drones.
    Cookie said:

    I know it’s minor in the scale of things, but Israel’s taste for grandiose religio-nationalist code names for their SMOs is pretty wanky. The strike on Iran is apparently Operation Rising Lion, while their equivalent to Airforce One, Wing of Zion, is currently in the air possibly carrying its precious Bibi cargo.

    I have always felt slightly proud of the obscurity of British names for our operations. Could a less heroic name ever have been suggested than 'operation market garden'?
    We couldn't afford anything more than operation vegetable patch these days.

    At a stretch.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,182

    Cookie said:

    I know it’s minor in the scale of things, but Israel’s taste for grandiose religio-nationalist code names for their SMOs is pretty wanky. The strike on Iran is apparently Operation Rising Lion, while their equivalent to Airforce One, Wing of Zion, is currently in the air possibly carrying its precious Bibi cargo.

    I have always felt slightly proud of the obscurity of British names for our operations. Could a less heroic name ever have been suggested than 'operation market garden'?
    I think Operation Allotment might have had the edge, though Market Garden does have a nation of shopkeepers vibe.
    Although “operation mincemeat” is nicely mundane
    Well, up to a point. It’s association with a decomposing body makes me a bit queasy.
    The Americans would have named it Operation Floating Burger or something..:
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,039

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Netanyahu has painted a huge target on the back of himself and his Cabinet. I suspect the world will not be rooting for Netanyahu.

    LOL

    Roger he had a huge target on his back yesterday too and the number of allies of Israel has always been small. The only change is the Iranians might try harder to hit the target.
    How was Ballymena?
    The warm up to the Marching season.

    Belfast and Derry will have their traditional riots round the 12 July fuelled by punch the neighbours politics and Buckfast.

    Might I suggest you spend a week there, it may inspire some creative ideas.
    Giving the old bowler an outing?
    I eas enjoying the marketing of Alica a new bank

    Their logo is an orange bowler hat.

    I assume West Belfast is not the target market
    Some years ago, I was in an Irish pub on St Paddy's day, in London. In walked a couple of people I knew - part of a larger group of Dutch Oranje fans (they had just won).

    The juxtaposition of orange t-shirts, the pub and the day began to reduce room temperature - they didn't know the issue. I had a brief convention with one of my friends. In the end they fixed it by buying Irish ruby shirts that were on sale behind the bar and wearing them over their Oranje colours.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,241

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    Trump has really brought peace to the Middle East.

    To be fair to the old narcissist his efforts there have been less destructive than his disastrous actions and inactions in Ukraine, which is the conflict that really matters for the Free World.
    A very European perspective.
    It’s also very correct unless and until China attacks Taiwan.
    That rather depends where you live. In Europe Putin is the problem in the ME its Iran or Israel in the States its China and Mexico in India its Pakistan and vice versa.
    Israel would very much like us to believe it is defending the free world, of course.

    It seems you’ve gone fully for the MAGA world view: that there is no longer a free world, just regional powers and their legitimate spheres of influence.
    Or maybe it;s you cant understand when a major ally like the US has several other issues on its plate such as China and Europe needs to do more of the lifting.
    Or maybe we can, but are questioning how much of an ally the US is at all under Trump.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,682
    As might be expected, oil prices up 5% in trading so WTI Crude in the mid-71s and both Brent and Murban crude just above $73.

    One of the few positives about the current UK economy has been fuel prices which have fallen slightly - up here in Derbyshire unleaded at £1.26 a litre so a long way off the highs of the earlier part of the decade.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,797

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jan 6 protestor arrested for child pornography argues Trump’s pardon means the child pornography charge has no basis because they only looked on his computer because of Jan 6.

    https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/not-the-typical-case-jan-6-defendant-asks-judge-to-apply-trumps-mass-pardon-to-child-pornography-charge/

    Biden pardoned his own son of serious crimes after promising for many months he would do no such thing “because Democrats believe in the rule of law”

    Then he pardoned Antony Fauci of things he MIGHT have done. Like enable the deaths of 20 million people
    The Hunter Biden pardon was an error, but it is too strong to really argue they were “serious offences”.

    The Fauci one was because Trump had been clear he intended to go after a public servant for making judgements about what to do in a very difficult situation. Pre-emptive defence
    Blah blah blah yawn
    Can’t come up with a coherent argument then? As you were.

    He “pre emptively” pardoned Fauci not for his Covid response, dummkopf, but because Fauci funded the Gain of Function research in Wuhan (against the spirit and maybe letter of US law) that likely led to the Lab Leak, and the deaths of 20 million

    Go read
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,659
    An interesting perspective on the LA protests from a leftwing journalist:

    "In a sense it gives me hope to see these things [the protests]. At a protest or big action like that I always feel cared for, in a strange way, because the only thing that matters is taking care of one another, and trying not to get hurt, and for folks who are in the street to try and remain there.

    "You have this kind of disaster community, the same thing you find in conflict zones, or after natural disasters. It's always beautiful to see that...I saw people taking care of strangers when they got teargassed or taking care of strangers when they got shot...if you consumed this stuff through the New York Times you'd think people are looting and burning the city. I didn't see anyone steal shit, I did see people take care of one another and that's a beautiful thing.

    Maybe people need to be in the streets to find one another right now, because every year it gets harder to go outside and easier to stay on the internet."

    [Posted without irony on an anonymous internet message board in my house just before sitting down to an all-day Zoom meeting]

    https://pca.st/episode/b0f6104e-4f7d-45a8-adca-72f9b20fb63d?t=1552.7,1669.8

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,316
    Leon said:

    There’s an entire short funny book to be written on the mad foods eaten in far Northern Europe, and the Atlantic sub-Arctic

    The seabirds alone. Omg. Sometimes eaten whole - beak, claws, feathers

    The holy grail - the ne plus ultra - the Ultima Gastro-Thule - of such foods is the “fermented skate” of Iceland. Kæst Skata

    I’m told it’s not just the worst food in the world, it’s the worst food imaginable

    I’ve heard it described as like eating mucus soaked in bleach with your head down a urinal

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Has everyone had breakfast? If not I can recommend a dish from Tim Ecott’s “The Land of Maybe: A Faroes Year”

    Rognaknettir: they’re dumplings - deep fried, and made from cod roe, raisins, and the fat from around a sheep’s rectum

    That would go perfectly with a nice pot of Earl Grey

    Leaving aside the vivid descriptions, I imagine those would taste quite nice. Deep fried - good. Cod roe - nice. Sheep’s rectum fat - I assume soft with a low melting point.
    Yes this MAY be a case of the description being worse than the dish. However they really do eat some truly disgusting things here - I’ve tried them. They’re brilliantly hideous. Rotting - aka “fermented” - lamb and mutton might be the worst - Ræst kjøt

    It smells hideous - for a very good reason. It’s rotting. Your brain is saying via your nose: don’t eat this. And then you do and - it’s even worse than the smell

    Pilot whale blubber is ok in comparison, but “rindin” - the black hard chewy skin - is simply weird. Like eating a slice of patent leather shoe

    Hilariously the other night my lovely Faroese lady host admitted she’d never eaten “rindin” but after a few glasses we, her guests, persuaded her to have a go and she did - then instantly vommed it into the sink

    When a Faroese person reflexively pukes up Faroese food you know it’s got to be quite extreme

    I love it here
    I keep being diverted to Politicalpopinjay.com where posts are all about some old travel hack's breakfast. Could the technical department have a look at this fault please?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,241
    .

    Leon said:

    There’s an entire short funny book to be written on the mad foods eaten in far Northern Europe, and the Atlantic sub-Arctic

    The seabirds alone. Omg. Sometimes eaten whole - beak, claws, feathers

    The holy grail - the ne plus ultra - the Ultima Gastro-Thule - of such foods is the “fermented skate” of Iceland. Kæst Skata

    I’m told it’s not just the worst food in the world, it’s the worst food imaginable

    I’ve heard it described as like eating mucus soaked in bleach with your head down a urinal

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Has everyone had breakfast? If not I can recommend a dish from Tim Ecott’s “The Land of Maybe: A Faroes Year”

    Rognaknettir: they’re dumplings - deep fried, and made from cod roe, raisins, and the fat from around a sheep’s rectum

    That would go perfectly with a nice pot of Earl Grey

    Leaving aside the vivid descriptions, I imagine those would taste quite nice. Deep fried - good. Cod roe - nice. Sheep’s rectum fat - I assume soft with a low melting point.
    Yes this MAY be a case of the description being worse than the dish. However they really do eat some truly disgusting things here - I’ve tried them. They’re brilliantly hideous. Rotting - aka “fermented” - lamb and mutton might be the worst - Ræst kjøt

    It smells hideous - for a very good reason. It’s rotting. Your brain is saying via your nose: don’t eat this. And then you do and - it’s even worse than the smell

    Pilot whale blubber is ok in comparison, but “rindin” - the black hard chewy skin - is simply weird. Like eating a slice of patent leather shoe

    Hilariously the other night my lovely Faroese lady host admitted she’d never eaten “rindin” but after a few glasses we, her guests, persuaded her to have a go and she did - then instantly vommed it into the sink

    When a Faroese person reflexively pukes up Faroese food you know it’s got to be quite extreme

    I love it here
    I keep being diverted to Politicalpopinjay.com where posts are all about some old travel hack's breakfast. Could the technical department have a look at this fault please?
    I've no objection to Leon's regurgitating his meals.
    It makes a pleasant chance from his efforts at political discourse.
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