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The lady is for turning – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,511
edited June 9 in General
The lady is for turning – politicalbetting.com

Suspect Reeves announcement that the winter fuel allowance cut off will be £35,000 will meet public expectations. We found most thought the cut off should be £50,000 but didn't have a £35,000 option and think it's reasonable to say a good chunk would have opted for that.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,607
    The plasticine Chancellor.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,272
    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,158
    I wonder how she'll spin the 2 child cap and PIP U turns?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,158
    edited June 9

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    He's going to reopen the blast furnaces using magic
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,351
    edited June 9
    If they'd done a contingent valuation with referendum style question (yes/no) and a randomly presented figure for the cut-off then they'd be able to model the response and provide the precise mean and median income at which people think WFA should be removed.

    #justsayin (MiC/YG - I'm available for consultancy at very reasonable rates)

    ETA: You'd need a decent size sample to get good precision though.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,817
    Her only claim to fame will be the first woman chancellor. She’s been utterly hopeless.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,639

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    Watch out for him joining a brass band next.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,206

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    He's going to reopen the blast furnaces using magic
    You have summarised Populism brilliantly!



  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,035
    Not much surprise Reeves had to u turn on this as it was the biggest factor in Labour's declining poll ratings.

    Though she raised the threshold for claims to £35k so the richest pensioners who tend to be Tory won't get it and it instead is focused on pensioners on average incomes and below where the biggest shift from Labour to Reform in that age group has been seen
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,158

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    He's going to reopen the blast furnaces using magic
    You have summarised Populism brilliantly!



    I have never done anything brilliantly, take it back
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,206
    dam Bienkov
    @AdamBienkov

    EXCLUSIVE: The BBC has drawn up plans to win over Reform voters by changing its news and drama output.

    BBC Director General Tim Davie and other execs discussed altering "story selection" in order to win the "trust" of supporters of Nigel Farage
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,035

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    Even Boris backed reopening a Cumbria coal mine, if Farage wants the South Wales white working class vote promising to reopen coal mines and sod upper middle class progressive net zero focused Londoners was the way to do it
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,206
    BREAKING: BBC announce new TV show with Jeremy Clarkson to be called 'I bought and reopened a Coal Mine'.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,158
    HYUFD said:

    Not much surprise Reeves had to u turn on this as it was the biggest factor in Labour's declining poll ratings.

    Though she raised the threshold for claims to £35k so the richest pensioners who tend to be Tory won't get it and it instead is focused on pensioners on average incomes and below where the biggest shift from Labour to Reform in that age group has been seen

    None of them are coming back to Labour over this. At best its a tourniquet and the limb is being sacrificed to save the rest
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,743

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    Union membership is up in areas where RefUK now run the council...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,081
    The Ministry of Defence has confirmed that the integration of the MBDA Meteor missile with the F-35B Lightning II has slipped again, with in-service capability now expected in the early 2030s.
    https://x.com/UKDefJournal/status/1932039743543366092

    So they've now decided to order some F35As, which also can't use it.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,158

    BREAKING: BBC announce new TV show with Jeremy Clarkson to be called 'I bought and reopened a Coal Mine'.

    Clarksons Slag Heap.
    Get the masses stiff for it
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,081

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    He's going to reopen the blast furnaces using magic
    Hot air furnaces ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,081

    BREAKING: BBC announce new TV show with Jeremy Clarkson to be called 'I bought and reopened a Coal Mine'.

    Clarkson is minted enough to run a farm as a hobby.
    But I doubt his many millions would get him more than a third of the way through episode 1 of that concept.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,641
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    Even Boris backed reopening a Cumbria coal mine, if Farage wants the South Wales white working class vote promising to reopen coal mines and sod upper middle class progressive net zero focused Londoners was the way to do it
    The only reason people are talking about opening coal mines is that the collective memory of how crap working in them was has disappeared.

    So you have a rose tinted viewpoint from people who can’t remember what it was really like as those who worked down them have mainly died out from lung conditions
    Coal mining is exempt from sex equality legislation. You are allowed to only employ male miners.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,293
    Scott_xP said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    Union membership is up in areas where RefUK now run the council...
    Hardly surprising - they’ve already announced an attempt to destroy pensions for new workers - without increasing pay to offset the significant benefits being lost
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,272
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    Even Boris backed reopening a Cumbria coal mine, if Farage wants the South Wales white working class vote promising to reopen coal mines and sod upper middle class progressive net zero focused Londoners was the way to do it
    The only reason people are talking about opening coal mines is that the collective memory of how crap working in them was has disappeared.

    So you have a rose tinted viewpoint from people who can’t remember what it was really like as those who worked down them have mainly died out from lung conditions
    Because of my working class roots I was surrounded by miners growing up and was at the epicentre of the 1984/85 strike.

    It’s funny when the South Yorkshire clubs play Nottingham Forest and Notts County they call them the scabs because the Nottinghamshire miners, even people born twenty years after the strike still do it because they have this romantic belief about mining and the strike.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,081
    Nigelb said:

    The Ministry of Defence has confirmed that the integration of the MBDA Meteor missile with the F-35B Lightning II has slipped again, with in-service capability now expected in the early 2030s.
    https://x.com/UKDefJournal/status/1932039743543366092

    So they've now decided to order some F35As, which also can't use it.

    The US is taking the piss with the capability they offer on the export versions of the F35 (excepting Israel).
    Why we play along with it beats me.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,389

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    The illiteracy was Hezza shutting down profitable pits and then a whole generation of not caring if we make steel or not. When did industry become the holdout for the hard left btw - the capitalist right used to think it was a good idea as it made them rich.

    Farage is asking the "what if" questions which millions have been asking for years and years. Sure, it's probably not doable. But he's talking about what we have lost thanks to cross-party vandalism and what we could have again if we took a strategic approach to where we are now and where we want to get to.

    Do we want to make steel in the UK yes or no? If yes don't we have 400 years of coal sat underneath Wales waiting to be dug up to power the furnaces?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,260

    BREAKING: BBC announce new TV show with Jeremy Clarkson to be called 'I bought and reopened a Coal Mine'.

    Clarksons Slag Heap.
    Get the masses stiff for it
    He could run it as a rehabilitation for prisoners as part of the challenge, Slag’s for Gulags.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,641
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    Union membership is up in areas where RefUK now run the council...
    Hardly surprising - they’ve already announced an attempt to destroy pensions for new workers - without increasing pay to offset the significant benefits being lost
    The attitude appears to be...

    Private sector wages should be decided by the market, by supply and demand.

    Public sector wages should be decided by political fiat, regardless of supply or demand.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,206
    Trump: “We’re gonna have troops everywhere.”
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,389
    kinabalu said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    Watch out for him joining a brass band next.
    A clip of Farage talking at his next press event

    https://youtu.be/kDcoJN9fnVI?si=Ga0lUszqtB5aoh2F&t=34
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,969

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    The illiteracy was Hezza shutting down profitable pits and then a whole generation of not caring if we make steel or not. When did industry become the holdout for the hard left btw - the capitalist right used to think it was a good idea as it made them rich.

    Farage is asking the "what if" questions which millions have been asking for years and years. Sure, it's probably not doable. But he's talking about what we have lost thanks to cross-party vandalism and what we could have again if we took a strategic approach to where we are now and where we want to get to.

    Do we want to make steel in the UK yes or no? If yes don't we have 400 years of coal sat underneath Wales waiting to be dug up to power the furnaces?
    The pits weren't profitable. Which is why no-one could make them work - sadly, some miner invested their redundancy money in such schemes.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,158

    Trump: “We’re gonna have troops everywhere.”

    National FAFO championships
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,649

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    I absolutely don't but in the South Wales valleys who knows

    Labour’s tenure in office in Wales has been a disaster, and Farage is very likely to do very well next year in the Senedd, as will Plaid
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,649
    kinabalu said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    Watch out for him joining a brass band next.
    Cor Meibion even !!!!!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,607
    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1932077880348942519

    The Tories left us with a £22 billion black hole.

    My government has fixed the foundations of our economy. We now have the highest growth in the G7, four interest rate cuts, and we have signed three trade deals to protect jobs and put more money in your pockets.

    The economy is improving, and I want you to feel that in your day-to-day lives – that is why we are expanding eligibility for the winter fuel allowance.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,035

    HYUFD said:

    Not much surprise Reeves had to u turn on this as it was the biggest factor in Labour's declining poll ratings.

    Though she raised the threshold for claims to £35k so the richest pensioners who tend to be Tory won't get it and it instead is focused on pensioners on average incomes and below where the biggest shift from Labour to Reform in that age group has been seen

    None of them are coming back to Labour over this. At best its a tourniquet and the limb is being sacrificed to save the rest
    A few might, especially those who voted Labour at the last general election on average incomes
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,649
    HYUFD said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    Even Boris backed reopening a Cumbria coal mine, if Farage wants the South Wales white working class vote promising to reopen coal mines and sod upper middle class progressive net zero focused Londoners was the way to do it
    You do talk nonsense

    Coal mining will not happen here in Wales or anywhere else for that matter
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,748
    I knew a few ex coal-miners, and a couple of grass workers very well.

    They missed the money (mining paid well), and the camaraderie. But the ones I chatted to seemed not to want their kids working down the mine if other well-paid jobs were available. It was nasty, unpleasant and dangerous work. Opencast was better, but IIRC not as well-paid as underground mines.

    I think it's a bit like steam locos (I also knew some ex drivers) - many missed the romance of steam, but not the working conditions when compared to the diesel or electric replacements. At least as full-time work. Not that they didn't complain about the draughts on the new diesel and electric locos...
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,418
    Pathetic Reeves.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,272
    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    Even Boris backed reopening a Cumbria coal mine, if Farage wants the South Wales white working class vote promising to reopen coal mines and sod upper middle class progressive net zero focused Londoners was the way to do it
    The only reason people are talking about opening coal mines is that the collective memory of how crap working in them was has disappeared.

    So you have a rose tinted viewpoint from people who can’t remember what it was really like as those who worked down them have mainly died out from lung conditions
    Because of my working class roots I was surrounded by miners growing up and was at the epicentre of the 1984/85 strike.

    It’s funny when the South Yorkshire clubs play Nottingham Forest and Notts County they call them the scabs because the Nottinghamshire miners, even people born twenty years after the strike still do it because they have this romantic belief about mining and the strike.
    My dad was crossing picket lines and my brother was on strike. Tense times in the house.
    Blimey.

    It put me off trade unions for life.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,748

    HYUFD said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    Even Boris backed reopening a Cumbria coal mine, if Farage wants the South Wales white working class vote promising to reopen coal mines and sod upper middle class progressive net zero focused Londoners was the way to do it
    You do talk nonsense

    Coal mining will not happen here in Wales or anywhere else for that matter
    There may be good reasons to have one or two mines, for high-quality coal for specific purposes. But that's orders of magnitude less than would be needed for coal power generation.

    That's what's getting mixed up here: the Cumbrian mine was for a very specific niche purpose. That might be arguable: but it's a world away from reopening many pits.

    (And yes, we get back to coal for steam trains here... ;) )
  • vikvik Posts: 482

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    A similar debate happened in the US within the Republican Party, with Never-Trump fiscal conservatives arguing that Trumpism should be resisted because it was economically illiterate.

    The Never Trumpers lost & I think the outcome will be the same in the UK.

    The Conservative Party will be reduced to the same small minority as the Never-Trump Republicans, and Reform will be the majority "conservative" party.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,649

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1932077880348942519

    The Tories left us with a £22 billion black hole.

    My government has fixed the foundations of our economy. We now have the highest growth in the G7, four interest rate cuts, and we have signed three trade deals to protect jobs and put more money in your pockets.

    The economy is improving, and I want you to feel that in your day-to-day lives – that is why we are expanding eligibility for the winter fuel allowance.

    Her body language when saying that to Sam Coates on Sky was dreadful, and even Coates said she was nervous after he had taken her statement apart

    Reeves is an embarrassment and should resign or be sacked
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,158
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not much surprise Reeves had to u turn on this as it was the biggest factor in Labour's declining poll ratings.

    Though she raised the threshold for claims to £35k so the richest pensioners who tend to be Tory won't get it and it instead is focused on pensioners on average incomes and below where the biggest shift from Labour to Reform in that age group has been seen

    None of them are coming back to Labour over this. At best its a tourniquet and the limb is being sacrificed to save the rest
    A few might, especially those who voted Labour at the last general election on average incomes
    A very few
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,158

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1932077880348942519

    The Tories left us with a £22 billion black hole.

    My government has fixed the foundations of our economy. We now have the highest growth in the G7, four interest rate cuts, and we have signed three trade deals to protect jobs and put more money in your pockets.

    The economy is improving, and I want you to feel that in your day-to-day lives – that is why we are expanding eligibility for the winter fuel allowance.

    What an absolute arse
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,272
    vik said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    A similar debate happened in the US within the Republican Party, with Never-Trump fiscal conservatives arguing that Trumpism should be resisted because it was economically illiterate.

    The Never Trumpers lost & I think the outcome will be the same in the UK.

    The Conservative Party will be reduced to the same small minority as the Never-Trump Republicans, and Reform will be the majority "conservative" party.
    Like Liz Truss I suspect Mr Farage will have to deal with the displeasure of the markets who will not want to fund this nonsense.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,236
    edited June 9

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    I absolutely don't but in the South Wales valleys who knows

    Labour’s tenure in office in Wales has been a disaster, and Farage is very likely to do very well next year in the Senedd, as will Plaid
    Farage is selling snake oil.

    Nobody is going to sink deep mines providing wages for hundreds or thousands of families. It is undiluted bulls***, but there might be plenty of dreamers willing to give him a go.

    The Trump authoritarian blueprint model better have worked because Farage won't get another go in a democracy.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,966

    I knew a few ex coal-miners, and a couple of grass workers very well.

    They missed the money (mining paid well), and the camaraderie. But the ones I chatted to seemed not to want their kids working down the mine if other well-paid jobs were available. It was nasty, unpleasant and dangerous work. Opencast was better, but IIRC not as well-paid as underground mines.

    I think it's a bit like steam locos (I also knew some ex drivers) - many missed the romance of steam, but not the working conditions when compared to the diesel or electric replacements. At least as full-time work. Not that they didn't complain about the draughts on the new diesel and electric locos...

    My paternal grandfather, born in the 1880's was a South Welsh miner, as were three of his four brothers. None of the next generation followed their fathers, either as miners or the wives of miners. To be fair, my father started out as a trainee surveyor, but after he had an injury underground his mother talked him out of continuing.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,649

    vik said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    A similar debate happened in the US within the Republican Party, with Never-Trump fiscal conservatives arguing that Trumpism should be resisted because it was economically illiterate.

    The Never Trumpers lost & I think the outcome will be the same in the UK.

    The Conservative Party will be reduced to the same small minority as the Never-Trump Republicans, and Reform will be the majority "conservative" party.
    Like Liz Truss I suspect Mr Farage will have to deal with the displeasure of the markets who will not want to fund this nonsense.
    I do not see him in government to be fair
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,748

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    The illiteracy was Hezza shutting down profitable pits and then a whole generation of not caring if we make steel or not. When did industry become the holdout for the hard left btw - the capitalist right used to think it was a good idea as it made them rich.

    Farage is asking the "what if" questions which millions have been asking for years and years. Sure, it's probably not doable. But he's talking about what we have lost thanks to cross-party vandalism and what we could have again if we took a strategic approach to where we are now and where we want to get to.

    Do we want to make steel in the UK yes or no? If yes don't we have 400 years of coal sat underneath Wales waiting to be dug up to power the furnaces?
    There was much illiteracy over these issues. People tend to attack the illiteracy that supports their argument, and forget the illiteracy that is against their argument.

    As an example, a look at the trends in mine employment and coal production show a rather different picture to the one the left usually like to portray. e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_the_United_Kingdom#/media/File:UK_Coal_Production.png and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_the_United_Kingdom#/media/File:UK_Coal_Mining_Jobs.png
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,681

    I wonder how she'll spin the 2 child cap and PIP U turns?

    I'd be surprised if she does them. I'm pretty sure labour have got their research dept up and running which is why they came up with a cut off figure of over £35,000 in line with the public. The more costly two child policy is generally unpopular other than with some Labour MPs so probably won't happen. Instead they'll find something more eye catching and with wider appeal
  • vikvik Posts: 482

    vik said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    A similar debate happened in the US within the Republican Party, with Never-Trump fiscal conservatives arguing that Trumpism should be resisted because it was economically illiterate.

    The Never Trumpers lost & I think the outcome will be the same in the UK.

    The Conservative Party will be reduced to the same small minority as the Never-Trump Republicans, and Reform will be the majority "conservative" party.
    Like Liz Truss I suspect Mr Farage will have to deal with the displeasure of the markets who will not want to fund this nonsense.
    I think like the TACO Trade in the US Stock Markets, there could be a FACO Trade ("Farage Always Chickens Out").

    Farage will try to implement extreme versions of his policies & then chicken out when the markets & the public react negatively, and then implement something a lot milder.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,639

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    The illiteracy was Hezza shutting down profitable pits and then a whole generation of not caring if we make steel or not. When did industry become the holdout for the hard left btw - the capitalist right used to think it was a good idea as it made them rich.

    Farage is asking the "what if" questions which millions have been asking for years and years. Sure, it's probably not doable. But he's talking about what we have lost thanks to cross-party vandalism and what we could have again if we took a strategic approach to where we are now and where we want to get to.

    Do we want to make steel in the UK yes or no? If yes don't we have 400 years of coal sat underneath Wales waiting to be dug up to power the furnaces?
    The pits weren't profitable. Which is why no-one could make them work - sadly, some miner invested their redundancy money in such schemes.
    The perception was of a government maliciously targeting people they saw as hostile to their values.

    I thought of Mrs Thatcher the other day when some PBers of a 'robust' right wing persuasion were complaining that this Labour government were doing things like VAT on private schools and IHT for farmers out of a desire to punish tory voters.

    Ok, so making their school fees a bit more expensive or taking some tax when a chunk of land is passed on is not quite the same as complete loss of livelihood and dignity, but it's the same charge effectively.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,035

    vik said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    A similar debate happened in the US within the Republican Party, with Never-Trump fiscal conservatives arguing that Trumpism should be resisted because it was economically illiterate.

    The Never Trumpers lost & I think the outcome will be the same in the UK.

    The Conservative Party will be reduced to the same small minority as the Never-Trump Republicans, and Reform will be the majority "conservative" party.
    Like Liz Truss I suspect Mr Farage will have to deal with the displeasure of the markets who will not want to fund this nonsense.
    Bankers v coal miners argued by a populist rightwing party is exactly the type of contest Farage would relish
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,573
    £35,000 is surely a very high threshold for WFA. It's quite OK for working age people earning much less to freeze, then, especially those with infants and young children.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,035
    kinabalu said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    The illiteracy was Hezza shutting down profitable pits and then a whole generation of not caring if we make steel or not. When did industry become the holdout for the hard left btw - the capitalist right used to think it was a good idea as it made them rich.

    Farage is asking the "what if" questions which millions have been asking for years and years. Sure, it's probably not doable. But he's talking about what we have lost thanks to cross-party vandalism and what we could have again if we took a strategic approach to where we are now and where we want to get to.

    Do we want to make steel in the UK yes or no? If yes don't we have 400 years of coal sat underneath Wales waiting to be dug up to power the furnaces?
    The pits weren't profitable. Which is why no-one could make them work - sadly, some miner invested their redundancy money in such schemes.
    The perception was of a government maliciously targeting people they saw as hostile to their values.

    I thought of Mrs Thatcher the other day when some PBers of a 'robust' right wing persuasion were complaining that this Labour government were doing things like VAT on private schools and IHT for farmers out of a desire to punish tory voters.

    Ok, so making their school fees a bit more expensive or taking some tax when a chunk of land is passed on is not quite the same as complete loss of livelihood and dignity, but it's the same charge effectively.
    Many family farms will be lost because of the family farms tax and of course more mines closed under Wilson than Thatcher
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,817

    vik said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    A similar debate happened in the US within the Republican Party, with Never-Trump fiscal conservatives arguing that Trumpism should be resisted because it was economically illiterate.

    The Never Trumpers lost & I think the outcome will be the same in the UK.

    The Conservative Party will be reduced to the same small minority as the Never-Trump Republicans, and Reform will be the majority "conservative" party.
    Like Liz Truss I suspect Mr Farage will have to deal with the displeasure of the markets who will not want to fund this nonsense.
    I do not see him in government to be fair
    Neither do I. Reform are becoming like the odious Lib Dem’s, just promising everything to everyone in the knowledge they probably won’t have to deliver it.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,114
    Taz said:

    Her only claim to fame will be the first woman chancellor. She’s been utterly hopeless.

    Thats not what her CV will say though.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,081

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1932077880348942519

    The Tories left us with a £22 billion black hole.

    My government has fixed the foundations of our economy. We now have the highest growth in the G7, four interest rate cuts, and we have signed three trade deals to protect jobs and put more money in your pockets.

    The economy is improving, and I want you to feel that in your day-to-day lives – that is why we are expanding eligibility for the winter fuel allowance.

    What an absolute arse
    He will be treated with the contempt he deserves for such bullshit. It is a Trumpian level of disassociation from reality.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,856
    Scott_xP said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    Union membership is up in areas where RefUK now run the council...
    Particularly among council employees..
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,649
    AnneJGP said:

    £35,000 is surely a very high threshold for WFA. It's quite OK for working age people earning much less to freeze, then, especially those with infants and young children.

    £70,000 a couple !!!!

    Reinstating the universal nature of the WFP would have been far easier even if it cost a bit more

    However, Reeves should have taken the hit and moved on, as it is she looks weak and unable to make the hard decisions that are needed, not least to pay 3.5% defence spending

    It must not be forgotten she is putting another 30 billion into the NHS, apparently benefit cuts are being reduced in severity, and other spending commitments, genuinely makes me very concerned for our country going forward

    She needs to go and be replaced with someone with backbone
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,649
    HYUFD said:

    vik said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    A similar debate happened in the US within the Republican Party, with Never-Trump fiscal conservatives arguing that Trumpism should be resisted because it was economically illiterate.

    The Never Trumpers lost & I think the outcome will be the same in the UK.

    The Conservative Party will be reduced to the same small minority as the Never-Trump Republicans, and Reform will be the majority "conservative" party.
    Like Liz Truss I suspect Mr Farage will have to deal with the displeasure of the markets who will not want to fund this nonsense.
    Bankers v coal miners argued by a populist rightwing party is exactly the type of contest Farage would relish
    And lose
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,966

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1932077880348942519

    The Tories left us with a £22 billion black hole.

    My government has fixed the foundations of our economy. We now have the highest growth in the G7, four interest rate cuts, and we have signed three trade deals to protect jobs and put more money in your pockets.

    The economy is improving, and I want you to feel that in your day-to-day lives – that is why we are expanding eligibility for the winter fuel allowance.

    What an absolute arse
    He will be treated with the contempt he deserves for such bullshit. It is a Trumpian level of disassociation from reality.
    I recall that sort of abuse being thrown at Wilson back in the 60's.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,502

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1932077880348942519

    The Tories left us with a £22 billion black hole.

    My government has fixed the foundations of our economy. We now have the highest growth in the G7, four interest rate cuts, and we have signed three trade deals to protect jobs and put more money in your pockets.

    The economy is improving, and I want you to feel that in your day-to-day lives – that is why we are expanding eligibility for the winter fuel allowance.

    Whose day-to-day lives?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,081
    HYUFD said:

    vik said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    A similar debate happened in the US within the Republican Party, with Never-Trump fiscal conservatives arguing that Trumpism should be resisted because it was economically illiterate.

    The Never Trumpers lost & I think the outcome will be the same in the UK.

    The Conservative Party will be reduced to the same small minority as the Never-Trump Republicans, and Reform will be the majority "conservative" party.
    Like Liz Truss I suspect Mr Farage will have to deal with the displeasure of the markets who will not want to fund this nonsense.
    Bankers v coal miners argued by a populist rightwing party is exactly the type of contest Farage would relish
    Farage is smart enough to know he can't take on Mr Market and win.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,389
    Trump's federalising of the California National Guard. As I understand it the decree now allows him to federalise ANY guard as he sees fit to deploy against their own state.

    Pretty quickly you're going to get the national guard stuck in the middle - refusing federal orders to attack their own people.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,570

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    The illiteracy was Hezza shutting down profitable pits and then a whole generation of not caring if we make steel or not. When did industry become the holdout for the hard left btw - the capitalist right used to think it was a good idea as it made them rich.

    Farage is asking the "what if" questions which millions have been asking for years and years. Sure, it's probably not doable. But he's talking about what we have lost thanks to cross-party vandalism and what we could have again if we took a strategic approach to where we are now and where we want to get to.

    Do we want to make steel in the UK yes or no? If yes don't we have 400 years of coal sat underneath Wales waiting to be dug up to power the furnaces?
    Farage is positioning himself and Reform in a old fashioned centre left social democratic place + very closed borders. Details to follow but not to put into writing until 2028/9 in a manifesto; this will be centrist and also warn that Rome was not built in a day.

    If he could add to this a competent front bench and 325+ potential MPs who aren't dim loonies + net Zero 'at the same pace as the rest of the world' he will win.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,681
    edited June 9
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not much surprise Reeves had to u turn on this as it was the biggest factor in Labour's declining poll ratings.

    Though she raised the threshold for claims to £35k so the richest pensioners who tend to be Tory won't get it and it instead is focused on pensioners on average incomes and below where the biggest shift from Labour to Reform in that age group has been seen

    None of them are coming back to Labour over this. At best its a tourniquet and the limb is being sacrificed to save the rest
    A few might, especially those who voted Labour at the last general election on average incomes
    Oddly enough Listening to radio 5 everyone interviewed said how great it was that Labour were doing a U-turn and it's good that they listened to the public. Everyone seemed thrilled.....

    ..........then on the one o'clock news on radio 4 the only person they interviewed said 'it was disgusting that they did it in the first place and they'll never be forgiven. All her retired friends feel the same'

    It just reminds you of the power of editorial control and why vox pops are is a game for any number of players and why Alastair Campbell spent so much time berating the BBC when he was working for Blair
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,418

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    I don't see any ways in which Reform are to the right of the Danish Social Democrats.

    They represent everything I abhor.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,649
    RobD said:

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1932077880348942519

    The Tories left us with a £22 billion black hole.

    My government has fixed the foundations of our economy. We now have the highest growth in the G7, four interest rate cuts, and we have signed three trade deals to protect jobs and put more money in your pockets.

    The economy is improving, and I want you to feel that in your day-to-day lives – that is why we are expanding eligibility for the winter fuel allowance.

    Whose day-to-day lives?
    Those comments were the exact words of Reeves to camera today

    Maybe AI has already taken Starmer and Reeves over, and to be fair they are robotic in their delivery
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,966

    Trump's federalising of the California National Guard. As I understand it the decree now allows him to federalise ANY guard as he sees fit to deploy against their own state.

    Pretty quickly you're going to get the national guard stuck in the middle - refusing federal orders to attack their own people.

    Devoutly to be wished!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,649
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not much surprise Reeves had to u turn on this as it was the biggest factor in Labour's declining poll ratings.

    Though she raised the threshold for claims to £35k so the richest pensioners who tend to be Tory won't get it and it instead is focused on pensioners on average incomes and below where the biggest shift from Labour to Reform in that age group has been seen

    None of them are coming back to Labour over this. At best its a tourniquet and the limb is being sacrificed to save the rest
    A few might, especially those who voted Labour at the last general election on average incomes
    Oddly enough Listening to radio 5 everyone interviewed said how great it was that Labour were doing a U-turn and it's good that they listened to the public. Everyone seemed thrilled.....

    ..........then on the one o'clock news on radio 4 the only person they interviewed said 'it was disgusting that they did it in the first place and they'll never be forgiven. All her retired friends feel the same'

    It just reminds you of the power of editorial control and why Alastair Campbell spent so much time berating the BBC when he was working for Blair
    You are deluded if you think Reeves has scored a win with this
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,158

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1932077880348942519

    The Tories left us with a £22 billion black hole.

    My government has fixed the foundations of our economy. We now have the highest growth in the G7, four interest rate cuts, and we have signed three trade deals to protect jobs and put more money in your pockets.

    The economy is improving, and I want you to feel that in your day-to-day lives – that is why we are expanding eligibility for the winter fuel allowance.

    What an absolute arse
    He will be treated with the contempt he deserves for such bullshit. It is a Trumpian level of disassociation from reality.
    Its laughable and contemptible in equal measure
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,158

    RobD said:

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1932077880348942519

    The Tories left us with a £22 billion black hole.

    My government has fixed the foundations of our economy. We now have the highest growth in the G7, four interest rate cuts, and we have signed three trade deals to protect jobs and put more money in your pockets.

    The economy is improving, and I want you to feel that in your day-to-day lives – that is why we are expanding eligibility for the winter fuel allowance.

    Whose day-to-day lives?
    Those comments were the exact words of Reeves to camera today

    Maybe AI has already taken Starmer and Reeves over, and to be fair they are robotic in their delivery
    Its their plan for change in action. For working people. Further and faster.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,642

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    The illiteracy was Hezza shutting down profitable pits and then a whole generation of not caring if we make steel or not. When did industry become the holdout for the hard left btw - the capitalist right used to think it was a good idea as it made them rich.

    Farage is asking the "what if" questions which millions have been asking for years and years. Sure, it's probably not doable. But he's talking about what we have lost thanks to cross-party vandalism and what we could have again if we took a strategic approach to where we are now and where we want to get to.

    Do we want to make steel in the UK yes or no? If yes don't we have 400 years of coal sat underneath Wales waiting to be dug up to power the furnaces?
    Unusual stance for a Lib Dem.

    Do I sense the first stirrings of Faragism?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,505

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1932077880348942519

    The Tories left us with a £22 billion black hole.

    My government has fixed the foundations of our economy. We now have the highest growth in the G7, four interest rate cuts, and we have signed three trade deals to protect jobs and put more money in your pockets.

    The economy is improving, and I want you to feel that in your day-to-day lives – that is why we are expanding eligibility for the winter fuel allowance.

    They'd have been better off saying they made a mistake. This line that suddenly the economy is booming so they can reinstate it is palpably b*llocks, and makes them look shifty.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,400
    How will ending public-sector pensions save money anyway? If you end them the expenditure will be the same (to existing pensioners) but the income will end (from future pensioners). It's only when the existing employees retire that you'll see any savings and it'll take many years to even get to current net spend.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,642

    vik said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    A similar debate happened in the US within the Republican Party, with Never-Trump fiscal conservatives arguing that Trumpism should be resisted because it was economically illiterate.

    The Never Trumpers lost & I think the outcome will be the same in the UK.

    The Conservative Party will be reduced to the same small minority as the Never-Trump Republicans, and Reform will be the majority "conservative" party.
    Like Liz Truss I suspect Mr Farage will have to deal with the displeasure of the markets who will not want to fund this nonsense.
    I do not see him in government to be fair
    Get used to it.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,681

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1932077880348942519

    The Tories left us with a £22 billion black hole.

    My government has fixed the foundations of our economy. We now have the highest growth in the G7, four interest rate cuts, and we have signed three trade deals to protect jobs and put more money in your pockets.

    The economy is improving, and I want you to feel that in your day-to-day lives – that is why we are expanding eligibility for the winter fuel allowance.

    I love that sort of bullshit because it works and the more they repeat the message the better it works. Think DFS and their wall to wall Easter sales
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,649

    vik said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    A similar debate happened in the US within the Republican Party, with Never-Trump fiscal conservatives arguing that Trumpism should be resisted because it was economically illiterate.

    The Never Trumpers lost & I think the outcome will be the same in the UK.

    The Conservative Party will be reduced to the same small minority as the Never-Trump Republicans, and Reform will be the majority "conservative" party.
    Like Liz Truss I suspect Mr Farage will have to deal with the displeasure of the markets who will not want to fund this nonsense.
    I do not see him in government to be fair
    Get used to it.
    Well I would but I genuinely do not see PM Farage
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,502
    DM_Andy said:

    How will ending public-sector pensions save money anyway? If you end them the expenditure will be the same (to existing pensioners) but the income will end (from future pensioners). It's only when the existing employees retire that you'll see any savings and it'll take many years to even get to current net spend.

    It's like raising the retirement age. Was initially planned in the mid-90s, and took 15 years to come into force.
  • vikvik Posts: 482

    HYUFD said:

    vik said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    A similar debate happened in the US within the Republican Party, with Never-Trump fiscal conservatives arguing that Trumpism should be resisted because it was economically illiterate.

    The Never Trumpers lost & I think the outcome will be the same in the UK.

    The Conservative Party will be reduced to the same small minority as the Never-Trump Republicans, and Reform will be the majority "conservative" party.
    Like Liz Truss I suspect Mr Farage will have to deal with the displeasure of the markets who will not want to fund this nonsense.
    Bankers v coal miners argued by a populist rightwing party is exactly the type of contest Farage would relish
    And lose
    There is an example of another world leader who supported coal mining & won the election (bigly):

    “I call it beautiful, clean coal. I told my people, never use the word coal unless you put beautiful, clean before it,” Trump said at a White House signing ceremony where he was flanked by coal miners in hard hats. Several wore patches on their work jackets that said “coal.”

    “Pound for pound, coal is the single most reliable, durable, secure and powerful form of energy,” Trump said. “It’s cheap, incredibly efficient, high density, and it’s almost indestructible.”


    https://apnews.com/article/trump-coal-ai-data-centers-energy-dominance-693e2604785c07ff790d9afd2e06d543
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,389
    algarkirk said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    The illiteracy was Hezza shutting down profitable pits and then a whole generation of not caring if we make steel or not. When did industry become the holdout for the hard left btw - the capitalist right used to think it was a good idea as it made them rich.

    Farage is asking the "what if" questions which millions have been asking for years and years. Sure, it's probably not doable. But he's talking about what we have lost thanks to cross-party vandalism and what we could have again if we took a strategic approach to where we are now and where we want to get to.

    Do we want to make steel in the UK yes or no? If yes don't we have 400 years of coal sat underneath Wales waiting to be dug up to power the furnaces?
    Farage is positioning himself and Reform in a old fashioned centre left social democratic place + very closed borders. Details to follow but not to put into writing until 2028/9 in a manifesto; this will be centrist and also warn that Rome was not built in a day.

    If he could add to this a competent front bench and 325+ potential MPs who aren't dim loonies + net Zero 'at the same pace as the rest of the world' he will win.
    I disagree with the positioning. He's creating anti-New Labour. Back in the Third Way days Blair and Clinton pulled together a coalition of policies from across the political spectrum, a "what works" approach to policy built on a globalist internationalist framework.

    Farage has kept the whatever works approach, but he's even more radical than Blair and Clinton. And his framework is anti-globalisation, to erect barriers and protect our own as if we can just tell the foreigners to do one and still have them buy our stuff.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,418
    AnneJGP said:

    £35,000 is surely a very high threshold for WFA. It's quite OK for working age people earning much less to freeze, then, especially those with infants and young children.

    Indeed. Especially given that three quarters of pensioners own their own home without a mortgage or rent.

    But parents with infants who earn less than that, while working, and have to pay rent too, don't get that support?

    Ridiculous.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,573

    AnneJGP said:

    £35,000 is surely a very high threshold for WFA. It's quite OK for working age people earning much less to freeze, then, especially those with infants and young children.

    £70,000 a couple !!!!

    Reinstating the universal nature of the WFP would have been far easier even if it cost a bit more

    However, Reeves should have taken the hit and moved on, as it is she looks weak and unable to make the hard decisions that are needed, not least to pay 3.5% defence spending

    It must not be forgotten she is putting another 30 billion into the NHS, apparently benefit cuts are being reduced in severity, and other spending commitments, genuinely makes me very concerned for our country going forward

    She needs to go and be replaced with someone with backbone
    I reckon the government needs to start work from the other end. Start from the minimum wage income and draw up a workable budget for an individual, a couple, a family with one, two, three children; show people how it can be done. Or, of course, demonstrate to themselves in their ivory palaces that it can't be done.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,035
    edited June 9

    AnneJGP said:

    £35,000 is surely a very high threshold for WFA. It's quite OK for working age people earning much less to freeze, then, especially those with infants and young children.

    Indeed. Especially given that three quarters of pensioners own their own home without a mortgage or rent.

    But parents with infants who earn less than that, while working, and have to pay rent too, don't get that support?

    Ridiculous.
    Minimum wage is about double the state pension now for full time workers and of course those with children get child benefit pensioners don't get too.

    Most on just state pension will be renting
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,649

    AnneJGP said:

    £35,000 is surely a very high threshold for WFA. It's quite OK for working age people earning much less to freeze, then, especially those with infants and young children.

    Indeed. Especially given that three quarters of pensioners own their own home without a mortgage or rent.

    But parents with infants who earn less than that, while working, and have to pay rent too, don't get that support?

    Ridiculous.
    Not just rent but mortgages as well
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,035

    HYUFD said:

    vik said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    A similar debate happened in the US within the Republican Party, with Never-Trump fiscal conservatives arguing that Trumpism should be resisted because it was economically illiterate.

    The Never Trumpers lost & I think the outcome will be the same in the UK.

    The Conservative Party will be reduced to the same small minority as the Never-Trump Republicans, and Reform will be the majority "conservative" party.
    Like Liz Truss I suspect Mr Farage will have to deal with the displeasure of the markets who will not want to fund this nonsense.
    Bankers v coal miners argued by a populist rightwing party is exactly the type of contest Farage would relish
    Farage is smart enough to know he can't take on Mr Market and win.
    Trump has taken on the markets over tariffs and while he has lowered them he has kept his 10% tariffs on all imports with 25% for steel and more for China
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,496
    edited June 9
    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    “I want to be crystal clear about what Reform UK’s position is which is we will deport everybody who is here in this country illegally which is roughly 1.2 million people”

    @ZiaYusufUK


    If you don’t think Reform is serious about illegal migration you’re not paying attention"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1932056069422870641
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,649
    Roger said:

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1932077880348942519

    The Tories left us with a £22 billion black hole.

    My government has fixed the foundations of our economy. We now have the highest growth in the G7, four interest rate cuts, and we have signed three trade deals to protect jobs and put more money in your pockets.

    The economy is improving, and I want you to feel that in your day-to-day lives – that is why we are expanding eligibility for the winter fuel allowance.

    I love that sort of bullshit because it works and the more they repeat the message the better it works. Think DFS and their wall to wall Easter sales
    You really cannot see how awful this looks for Reeves can you?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,639

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    Even Boris backed reopening a Cumbria coal mine, if Farage wants the South Wales white working class vote promising to reopen coal mines and sod upper middle class progressive net zero focused Londoners was the way to do it
    The only reason people are talking about opening coal mines is that the collective memory of how crap working in them was has disappeared.

    So you have a rose tinted viewpoint from people who can’t remember what it was really like as those who worked down them have mainly died out from lung conditions
    Because of my working class roots I was surrounded by miners growing up and was at the epicentre of the 1984/85 strike.

    It’s funny when the South Yorkshire clubs play Nottingham Forest and Notts County they call them the scabs because the Nottinghamshire miners, even people born twenty years after the strike still do it because they have this romantic belief about mining and the strike.
    My dad was crossing picket lines and my brother was on strike. Tense times in the house.
    Blimey.

    It put me off trade unions for life.
    I don't, despite my leftish politics and working class roots in the area, have a romantic view of the strike. Arthur Scargill was bad news. He exploited the miners for his own extremist political ends. But emotionally it presented to me at the time as a black/white battle. People fighting courageously against the odds for their jobs and communities versus a remote and heartless authoritarian PM. So it wasn't hard to pick a side. I was sad when the miners were (inevitably) defeated.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,607

    Trump's federalising of the California National Guard. As I understand it the decree now allows him to federalise ANY guard as he sees fit to deploy against their own state.

    Pretty quickly you're going to get the national guard stuck in the middle - refusing federal orders to attack their own people.

    Are illegal immigrants waving Mexican flags "their own people"?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,649
    HYUFD said:

    AnneJGP said:

    £35,000 is surely a very high threshold for WFA. It's quite OK for working age people earning much less to freeze, then, especially those with infants and young children.

    Indeed. Especially given that three quarters of pensioners own their own home without a mortgage or rent.

    But parents with infants who earn less than that, while working, and have to pay rent too, don't get that support?

    Ridiculous.
    Minimum wage is about double the state pension now for full time workers and of course those with children get child benefit pensioners don't get too.

    Most on just state pension will be renting
    You throw out comments

    Please show your source for most pensioners are renting
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,236

    algarkirk said:

    I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

    Economically Reform are hard left.

    No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

    The illiteracy was Hezza shutting down profitable pits and then a whole generation of not caring if we make steel or not. When did industry become the holdout for the hard left btw - the capitalist right used to think it was a good idea as it made them rich.

    Farage is asking the "what if" questions which millions have been asking for years and years. Sure, it's probably not doable. But he's talking about what we have lost thanks to cross-party vandalism and what we could have again if we took a strategic approach to where we are now and where we want to get to.

    Do we want to make steel in the UK yes or no? If yes don't we have 400 years of coal sat underneath Wales waiting to be dug up to power the furnaces?
    Farage is positioning himself and Reform in a old fashioned centre left social democratic place + very closed borders. Details to follow but not to put into writing until 2028/9 in a manifesto; this will be centrist and also warn that Rome was not built in a day.

    If he could add to this a competent front bench and 325+ potential MPs who aren't dim loonies + net Zero 'at the same pace as the rest of the world' he will win.
    I disagree with the positioning. He's creating anti-New Labour. Back in the Third Way days Blair and Clinton pulled together a coalition of policies from across the political spectrum, a "what works" approach to policy built on a globalist internationalist framework.

    Farage has kept the whatever works approach, but he's even more radical than Blair and Clinton. And his framework is anti-globalisation, to erect barriers and protect our own as if we can just tell the foreigners to do one and still have them buy our stuff.
    When after 25 years of planning, we can't build a railway line from Acton (Old Oak Common) into Central London, good luck with a deep mine in every valley of South Wales by a week next Tuesday.

    He's in Port Talbot you say? I'm twenty miles away by and I can smell the bullshit.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,158

    Roger said:

    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1932077880348942519

    The Tories left us with a £22 billion black hole.

    My government has fixed the foundations of our economy. We now have the highest growth in the G7, four interest rate cuts, and we have signed three trade deals to protect jobs and put more money in your pockets.

    The economy is improving, and I want you to feel that in your day-to-day lives – that is why we are expanding eligibility for the winter fuel allowance.

    I love that sort of bullshit because it works and the more they repeat the message the better it works. Think DFS and their wall to wall Easter sales
    You really cannot see how awful this looks for Reeves can you?
    How the market reacts to her spending review and the constant flip flopping will probably move far more votes than any temporary relief at the u turn.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,918

    AnneJGP said:

    £35,000 is surely a very high threshold for WFA. It's quite OK for working age people earning much less to freeze, then, especially those with infants and young children.

    Indeed. Especially given that three quarters of pensioners own their own home without a mortgage or rent.

    But parents with infants who earn less than that, while working, and have to pay rent too, don't get that support?

    Ridiculous.
    With no dependents or housing costs, the new income threshold for WFP represents the 91st equivalised income percentile (85th for a single pensioner).

    If they'd set it at the same as minimum wage - £23.5k, that would be about 73rd percentile (60th). That would still be very generous but defendable.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,236
    edited June 9

    AnneJGP said:

    £35,000 is surely a very high threshold for WFA. It's quite OK for working age people earning much less to freeze, then, especially those with infants and young children.

    Indeed. Especially given that three quarters of pensioners own their own home without a mortgage or rent.

    But parents with infants who earn less than that, while working, and have to pay rent too, don't get that support?

    Ridiculous.
    I think there's something to be said for the working generation funding a modest but comfortable lifestyle for the previous generation. When that generation are driving around in a Motability Mercedes and charging families £1200 a month to live in a former council house, they can f*** off!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,496
    edited June 9
    This is impressive. Neville Brown started working as teacher in 1958 and still going at the age of 90.

    "The dyslexia school run by a 90-year-old where pupils nail GCSEs
    Forget phonics and use a fountain pen: these are some of the secrets to earning at least seven pass grades when you struggle with reading or writing

    At Maple Hayes Hall, a school for dyslexic children, prospective pupils attend an assessment with its founder, Neville Brown.
    By the end of the meeting, most of the children — many of whom arrive here in the Staffordshire countryside aged nine or older unable to read or write — can comfortably spell the word “television”. For parents, it is akin to a magic trick.
    They are in the hands of a professional with an extraordinary amount of experience. Brown, 90, became an English teacher in 1958 and for 40 years has been working with dyslexic pupils using the same innovative method he pioneered in the 1970s while studying for a PhD in psycholinguistics." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/the-dyslexia-school-run-by-a-90-year-old-where-pupils-nail-gcses-9x36xqvtq
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