This polling may trigger some people – politicalbetting.com

System

This polling may trigger some people – politicalbetting.com

I have always been quite dismissive of people when it comes to the Ship of Theseus philosophical question who say it is the same ship.

Read the full story here

OldKingCole

Am I first?
I thought this question referred to George Washington's axe!

Fffs

There's an interesting cultural dimension to this question - for example in Japan people seem quite happy to say that a temple is a thousand years old even if it has burnt to the ground and been rebuilt from scratch many times in the intervening years.

AugustusCarp2

I once saw the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra in concert. Not a single member of the original line-up, I kid you not.

Leon

Uruguay is brilliant. This opinion is unconnected to the fact they are now basically force feeding me superb Uruguayan wine by the litre, like a hunger striker in H block but my dirty protest consists of mildly scathing tweets about steaks

TimS

It’s a perennially interesting question.

Applies to national and ethnic identity too, so perhaps more relevant to the discussions on the last thread than you’d think.

Meanwhile in TimS manor it’s sleepover night. 7 very noisy children. They’ve started with a treasure hunt and are now enjoying bubble tea. Not going to be a relaxing next few hours.

TimS

AugustusCarp2 said:

I once saw the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra in concert. Not a single member of the original line-up, I kid you not.

Same with Arsenal FC. Not a single one of the original team, nor the same stadium. Not even the same part of London.

AugustusCarp2

TimS said:

AugustusCarp2 said:

I once saw the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra in concert. Not a single member of the original line-up, I kid you not.

Same with Arsenal FC. Not a single one of the original team, nor the same stadium. Not even the same part of London.

Indeed, I have heard some people say they are not in the same league.......

Daveyboy1961

The first time I encountered this it was called "Trigger's Broom"

Malmesbury

We have some actual examples. Wooden ships were designed and expected to be like this - if you don’t steadily replace bits, it stops being useful.

- HMS Victory
- The Cutty Sark

Both are below 50% original.

TheScreamingEagles

Daveyboy1961 said:

The first time I encountered this it was called "Trigger's Broom"

Yay, somebody spotted my subtle reference to Only Fools and Horses in the headline.

No_Offence_Alan

If you want to start a fight in half of Glasgow, suggest Rangers football club is only 13 years old.

TheScreamingEagles

No_Offence_Alan said:

If you want to start a fight in half of Glasgow, suggest Rangers football club is only 13 years old.

Please, Sevco.

Stuartinromford

TimS said:

It’s a perennially interesting question.

Applies to national and ethnic identity too, so perhaps more relevant to the discussions on the last thread than you’d think.

Meanwhile in TimS manor it’s sleepover night. 7 very noisy children. They’ve started with a treasure hunt and are now enjoying bubble tea. Not going to be a relaxing next few hours.

Thoughts and prayers.

One of my memories of five years ago was when Things 1 and 2 were given the opportunity to do "Guide Camp... But at home!"

On topic- the same question can be asked of political parties. How far can a party restaff, retool and rethink and still be recognisably the same?

Alternatively, how much do the Conservatives have to replace to put the horrors of 2019-24 behind them?

Daveyboy1961

Like Village people singing YMCA

TimS

Stuartinromford said:

TimS said:

It’s a perennially interesting question.

Applies to national and ethnic identity too, so perhaps more relevant to the discussions on the last thread than you’d think.

Meanwhile in TimS manor it’s sleepover night. 7 very noisy children. They’ve started with a treasure hunt and are now enjoying bubble tea. Not going to be a relaxing next few hours.

Thoughts and prayers.

One of my memories of five years ago was when Things 1 and 2 were given the opportunity to do "Guide Camp... But at home!"

On topic- the same question can be asked of political parties. How far can a party restaff, retool and rethink and still be recognisably the same?

Alternatively, how much do the Conservatives have to replace to put the horrors of 2019-24 behind them?

The GOP has notably replaced both the handle and the brush in the last decade.

JosiasJessop

Malmesbury said:

We have some actual examples. Wooden ships were designed and expected to be like this - if you don’t steadily replace bits, it stops being useful.

- HMS Victory
- The Cutty Sark

Both are below 50% original.

And steam locos had similar issues, as parts were readily swapped. A loco's boiler would be removed for repair, and another, new or repaired one, placed on the old frames. Therefore the most visible section; the boiler, would probably not be the one it was built with. Ditto cabs, wheels, etc. And even frames might have parts swapped out with others.

So, as an example, how much of Flying Scotsman is actually Flying Scotsman? The answer is: not much.

"Well, it mainly consists of the rear two thirds of the frames, part of the cab sides and some parts of the motion and possibly the driving wheel splashers.

https://blog.railwaymuseum.org.uk/how-much-flying-scotsman-original/

There have also been investigations into how much of Rocket is original. The answer is: not much, especially as it was rebuilt several times, even in its early service.

slade

Leon said:

Uruguay is brilliant. This opinion is unconnected to the fact they are now basically force feeding me superb Uruguayan wine by the litre, like a hunger striker in H block but my dirty protest consists of mildly scathing tweets about steaks

Is from the Garzon estate?

Eabhal

I think I'm in the 29% - at least when it comes to bicycles. It's more of an emotional thing, particularly if you've spent the time and effort to replace parts (and eventually the frame) rather than stick it in the bin the moment it plays up.

JosiasJessop

Pope not dead:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crrdv84rg4do

AnneJGP

Of course it's not the same broom but of course it seems like the same broom. In my experience of brooms, the two parts both last so long the broom is an heirloom anyway.

Fffs

Eabhal said:

I think I'm in the 29% - at least when it comes to bicycles. It's more of an emotional thing, particularly if you've spent the time and effort to replace parts (and eventually the frame) rather than stick it in the bin the moment it plays up.

Interesting - I have replaced almost everything except the frame on mine, but if I bought a new frame and transfered all the existing components I think I would consider it a new bike.

Leon

slade said:

Leon said:

Uruguay is brilliant. This opinion is unconnected to the fact they are now basically force feeding me superb Uruguayan wine by the litre, like a hunger striker in H block but my dirty protest consists of mildly scathing tweets about steaks

Is from the Garzon estate?

Don’t know. I know they’re the most famous

Uruguay is a deceptive country. On the face of it, really boring. But if you dig deeper, it’s REALLY boring

However if you then gird your loins and go beyond the call of duty, the boringness is explained and it’s really fascinating

Eg Uruguay has no indigenous people, per se. Why? Because it completely exterminated the locals - the churria - in perhaps the most efficient genocide in history. In the end just four were left; and they were sent to Paris to be exhibited


The last died as a beggar “somewhere in France”

Eabhal

Fffs said:

Eabhal said:

I think I'm in the 29% - at least when it comes to bicycles. It's more of an emotional thing, particularly if you've spent the time and effort to replace parts (and eventually the frame) rather than stick it in the bin the moment it plays up.

Interesting - I have replaced almost everything except the frame on mine, but if I bought a new frame and transfered all the existing components I think I would consider it a new bike.

Perhaps - if more than 50% of the value/weight of the parts have been there for more than 50% of the life of the bike, then it's the same bike? In my head they have a kind of soul - I certainly developed a strong attachment to the car I climbed all my Munros with*, for example.

* Not literally, though Clarkson did bag Cnoc an Fhreiceadain with a Discovery.

Leon

I think Noom might be like water. If you dig deep and hard enough, you will find it

But in some places it just burbles and geysers on the surface, like oil in Azerbaijan

MattW

It's a stupid, pointless question.

The point about a broom is utility, not attitude to it.

Luckyguy1983

Also known as the Sugababes question.

SandyRentool

Is an 80 year old the same person as the new born baby 80 years earlier?

The key in my mind is continuity of existence.

Incremental changes until none of the original remains equates to continuity of existence, and therefore the entity (be it broom, ship or girl band) is the same.

This is a topic I really enjoyed in my PPE degree. It wasn't really covered in ChemEng.

BartholomewRoberts

So long as there is any continuity the 29% are correct and I'm in the 29%

The Conservative Party dates back to the 19th century (not the Tories that HYUFD loves of the 17th century) but not a single person alive then is alive today. There still exists a form of continuity though, even though the people who make up the party have changed many times over.

LFC in the time I've followed them have replaced all their players and manager many times over. It's still the same club.

rcs1000

carnforth said:

kjh said:

FF43 said:

PJH said:

PJH said:

Roger said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

PJH said:

Nigelb said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

stodge said:

Morning all

We all know the economy and the public finances are in a mess and we also know this didn't start on July 5th last year. Whether or not you think Reeves has made things worse or much worse is up to you but she had a dreadful inheritance and you can argue that how you like.

The central question remains as it has since the post-Covid inflationary boom - how do we get economic growth back? Yes, you can argue we lived off the ponzi scheme that was immigration-led growth for decades - in truth, we always have whether it's cheap labour from the fields, the Carribbean or Eastern Europe. Generating growth with a stagnant work force, an ageing population and all the demands of that ageing population is the conundrum which affects policy makers across most of the world.

We have the inevitable "supply side" response - cut regulation (that's how you end up with raw sewage in the rivers because you can't enforce what regulation you do have), spending (apparently the state is bloated) and taxes (the peasants groaning under the burden of taxes yearning to be free).

The "centre-left" has had no coherent economic policy since 2008 - the "centre right" trots out neo-Thatcherite platitudes which have been tried and failed. It may be technological innovation will be the next spur to economic growth - it's happened many times before.

Until then, we stagnate with a growing ageing population and a declining work force like the hamster stuck on the wheel with the wheel going ever faster. On the one hand, there is clear under employment in some sectors yet vacancy levels in many other sectors are falling as economic activity alows further.

I'll be blunt - I have no answers, no one does. All Governments can do is tinker at the edges and hope, pace Micawber, "something will turn up". The economic, social, cultural and political landscape was fundamentally altered by the pandemic, the responses to the pandemic and the post-pandemic euphoria and we are still adjusting to the new reality of the 2020s.

Um, when? She wasn't perfect, but economic decline was reversed under Thatcher and the fruits of that under Major were 'the golden economic legacy'.

Blair and Brown overspent, overregulated (except when they disastrously underregulated), and made a mess of the constitution and the economy. Cameron and Osborne did nothing to reverse either. Then you have May and Boris, two of the biggest taxers and spenders going.

So when was this neo-Thatcherite failure of which you speak?

It started under her - the selling of state assets to fund current spending; the increasing central control of local government; the abandonment of any coherent industrial policy; the obsession with housing as an investment, at the expense of actual construction; the privatisation of public service monopolies.

As you fairly say, she turned around the economy - but at the same time embedded deep seated problems which successive governments failed to address.

Today's problems simply aren't amenable to being solved by the policy mix she adopted.

I agree with all the flaws outlined in your post but question whether Thatcher really turned around the economy.

I'm too young to remember her first couple of years in any detail, but all I remember is a string of recessions, the last of which coincided with my entry to the labour market

Indeed, I think that there is a case that most of our current economic problems can be traced back to her policies:

An over centralised state, with little autonomy for councils
An economy that prioritises financial engineering over real engineering
Neglect of old coalfield areas.
Fixation on property as an asset and investment
Conversion of local authority residential property to private Buy to Let.
A chronic trade deficit that can only be financed by selling off assets like utilities to foreign interests.

I am sure others can add more.

Buy to Let is a New Labour legacy not a Thatcher one.

I blame Dion Dublin and Homes Under the Hammer.

A couple of Irish women I know are selling their house in Brittany and they told me the market is very poor at the moment. They have had it valued at 210,000 euros.

It's a detatched 3 bedroom house in about 2/3rds of an acre. They had it built about 15 years ago and it's delightful. I couldn't believe houses like that would sell for what amounts to only £180,000 in such a desirable part of France so close to the South of England.

So I took a look and that price sounds typical. Why aren't the Brits moving there in droves and working from home?

https://www.frenchestateagents.com/brittany-property

Brexit. That was my plan!

I should add, that prior to Brexit some of my colleagues did that. But my employer has stated that for tax and visa reasons, we may not work outside the UK, except for legitimate business travel.

I was hoping to work for my firm in Europe for a while. That was a minor casualty of Brexit.

In today's related news the UK has a severe medicines shortage thanks in large part to Brexit. It is also destroying a profitable pharma export business.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/mar/22/brexit-key-factor-worst-uk-drug-shortages-in-four-years

My wife, a doctor, worked in drug safety at one of the big Swiss pharmas. Brexit was an absolute disaster for the UK pharma industry. I wanted to post some of the stuff that was happening at the time, but she asked me not to for confidentiality reasons. It certainly had a big impact on employment. They cancelled stuff that was moving to the UK and loads has been moved out.

More people work in that industry in the UK than in 2016. See the "Core Biopharma" (lighter blue) bars here:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1344913/biopharmaceutical-employment-in-the-uk/

Meanwhile, the EU continues to regulate R&D away:

https://www.efpia.eu/news-events/the-efpia-view/statements-press-releases/germany-belgium-and-france-among-those-hit-hardest-as-commission-s-pharma-legislation-proposals-risk-europe-losing-a-third-of-its-share-of-global-rd-by-2040/

To be fair, employment in pharma worldwide has increased quite significantly in the last nine years, so it's entirely possible you are both right.

rcs1000

As a philosophy graduate, the answer to this one is clear and obvious.

FF43

It depends I think whether you see the broom as a physical object or as an object performing a function.

rcs1000

OldKingCole said:

Am I first?
I thought this question referred to George Washington's axe!

I think it's originally the ship of Theseus.

Battlebus

So your partner gets new teeth, hair implants, a boob job, filler in their face, and a butt lift. Do you have a new partner?

BartholomewRoberts

Battlebus said:

So your partner gets new teeth, hair implants, a boob job, filler in their face, and a butt lift. Do you have a new partner?

Yes, after leaving the plastic surgery obsessed partner.

Leon

Battlebus said:

So your partner gets new teeth, hair implants, a boob job, filler in their face, and a butt lift. Do you have a new partner?

Wouldn’t it be cheaper to just get a hooker?

SandyRentool

rcs1000 said:

OldKingCole said:

Am I first?
I thought this question referred to George Washington's axe!

I think it's originally the ship of Theseus.

You replace enough of the parts, and the ship turns into a broom.

carnforth

rcs1000 said:

carnforth said:

kjh said:

FF43 said:

PJH said:

PJH said:

Roger said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

PJH said:

Nigelb said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

stodge said:

Morning all

We all know the economy and the public finances are in a mess and we also know this didn't start on July 5th last year. Whether or not you think Reeves has made things worse or much worse is up to you but she had a dreadful inheritance and you can argue that how you like.

The central question remains as it has since the post-Covid inflationary boom - how do we get economic growth back? Yes, you can argue we lived off the ponzi scheme that was immigration-led growth for decades - in truth, we always have whether it's cheap labour from the fields, the Carribbean or Eastern Europe. Generating growth with a stagnant work force, an ageing population and all the demands of that ageing population is the conundrum which affects policy makers across most of the world.

We have the inevitable "supply side" response - cut regulation (that's how you end up with raw sewage in the rivers because you can't enforce what regulation you do have), spending (apparently the state is bloated) and taxes (the peasants groaning under the burden of taxes yearning to be free).

The "centre-left" has had no coherent economic policy since 2008 - the "centre right" trots out neo-Thatcherite platitudes which have been tried and failed. It may be technological innovation will be the next spur to economic growth - it's happened many times before.

Until then, we stagnate with a growing ageing population and a declining work force like the hamster stuck on the wheel with the wheel going ever faster. On the one hand, there is clear under employment in some sectors yet vacancy levels in many other sectors are falling as economic activity alows further.

I'll be blunt - I have no answers, no one does. All Governments can do is tinker at the edges and hope, pace Micawber, "something will turn up". The economic, social, cultural and political landscape was fundamentally altered by the pandemic, the responses to the pandemic and the post-pandemic euphoria and we are still adjusting to the new reality of the 2020s.

Um, when? She wasn't perfect, but economic decline was reversed under Thatcher and the fruits of that under Major were 'the golden economic legacy'.

Blair and Brown overspent, overregulated (except when they disastrously underregulated), and made a mess of the constitution and the economy. Cameron and Osborne did nothing to reverse either. Then you have May and Boris, two of the biggest taxers and spenders going.

So when was this neo-Thatcherite failure of which you speak?

It started under her - the selling of state assets to fund current spending; the increasing central control of local government; the abandonment of any coherent industrial policy; the obsession with housing as an investment, at the expense of actual construction; the privatisation of public service monopolies.

As you fairly say, she turned around the economy - but at the same time embedded deep seated problems which successive governments failed to address.

Today's problems simply aren't amenable to being solved by the policy mix she adopted.

I agree with all the flaws outlined in your post but question whether Thatcher really turned around the economy.

I'm too young to remember her first couple of years in any detail, but all I remember is a string of recessions, the last of which coincided with my entry to the labour market

Indeed, I think that there is a case that most of our current economic problems can be traced back to her policies:

An over centralised state, with little autonomy for councils
An economy that prioritises financial engineering over real engineering
Neglect of old coalfield areas.
Fixation on property as an asset and investment
Conversion of local authority residential property to private Buy to Let.
A chronic trade deficit that can only be financed by selling off assets like utilities to foreign interests.

I am sure others can add more.

Buy to Let is a New Labour legacy not a Thatcher one.

I blame Dion Dublin and Homes Under the Hammer.

A couple of Irish women I know are selling their house in Brittany and they told me the market is very poor at the moment. They have had it valued at 210,000 euros.

It's a detatched 3 bedroom house in about 2/3rds of an acre. They had it built about 15 years ago and it's delightful. I couldn't believe houses like that would sell for what amounts to only £180,000 in such a desirable part of France so close to the South of England.

So I took a look and that price sounds typical. Why aren't the Brits moving there in droves and working from home?

https://www.frenchestateagents.com/brittany-property

Brexit. That was my plan!

I should add, that prior to Brexit some of my colleagues did that. But my employer has stated that for tax and visa reasons, we may not work outside the UK, except for legitimate business travel.

I was hoping to work for my firm in Europe for a while. That was a minor casualty of Brexit.

In today's related news the UK has a severe medicines shortage thanks in large part to Brexit. It is also destroying a profitable pharma export business.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/mar/22/brexit-key-factor-worst-uk-drug-shortages-in-four-years

My wife, a doctor, worked in drug safety at one of the big Swiss pharmas. Brexit was an absolute disaster for the UK pharma industry. I wanted to post some of the stuff that was happening at the time, but she asked me not to for confidentiality reasons. It certainly had a big impact on employment. They cancelled stuff that was moving to the UK and loads has been moved out.

More people work in that industry in the UK than in 2016. See the "Core Biopharma" (lighter blue) bars here:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1344913/biopharmaceutical-employment-in-the-uk/

Meanwhile, the EU continues to regulate R&D away:

https://www.efpia.eu/news-events/the-efpia-view/statements-press-releases/germany-belgium-and-france-among-those-hit-hardest-as-commission-s-pharma-legislation-proposals-risk-europe-losing-a-third-of-its-share-of-global-rd-by-2040/

To be fair, employment in pharma worldwide has increased quite significantly in the last nine years, so it's entirely possible you are both right.

Indeed. Sadly, Google was unable to come up with figure for France etc.

Personally I'd allow any EU, US, Japanese etc. approved drug in, subject to basic checks only.

Battlebus

DOGE - Dangerous Oligarchs Grabbing Everything. Seems an odd name for a government department.

MattW

carnforth said:

rcs1000 said:

carnforth said:

kjh said:

FF43 said:

PJH said:

PJH said:

Roger said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

PJH said:

Nigelb said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

stodge said:

Morning all

We all know the economy and the public finances are in a mess and we also know this didn't start on July 5th last year. Whether or not you think Reeves has made things worse or much worse is up to you but she had a dreadful inheritance and you can argue that how you like.

The central question remains as it has since the post-Covid inflationary boom - how do we get economic growth back? Yes, you can argue we lived off the ponzi scheme that was immigration-led growth for decades - in truth, we always have whether it's cheap labour from the fields, the Carribbean or Eastern Europe. Generating growth with a stagnant work force, an ageing population and all the demands of that ageing population is the conundrum which affects policy makers across most of the world.

We have the inevitable "supply side" response - cut regulation (that's how you end up with raw sewage in the rivers because you can't enforce what regulation you do have), spending (apparently the state is bloated) and taxes (the peasants groaning under the burden of taxes yearning to be free).

The "centre-left" has had no coherent economic policy since 2008 - the "centre right" trots out neo-Thatcherite platitudes which have been tried and failed. It may be technological innovation will be the next spur to economic growth - it's happened many times before.

Until then, we stagnate with a growing ageing population and a declining work force like the hamster stuck on the wheel with the wheel going ever faster. On the one hand, there is clear under employment in some sectors yet vacancy levels in many other sectors are falling as economic activity alows further.

I'll be blunt - I have no answers, no one does. All Governments can do is tinker at the edges and hope, pace Micawber, "something will turn up". The economic, social, cultural and political landscape was fundamentally altered by the pandemic, the responses to the pandemic and the post-pandemic euphoria and we are still adjusting to the new reality of the 2020s.

Um, when? She wasn't perfect, but economic decline was reversed under Thatcher and the fruits of that under Major were 'the golden economic legacy'.

Blair and Brown overspent, overregulated (except when they disastrously underregulated), and made a mess of the constitution and the economy. Cameron and Osborne did nothing to reverse either. Then you have May and Boris, two of the biggest taxers and spenders going.

So when was this neo-Thatcherite failure of which you speak?

It started under her - the selling of state assets to fund current spending; the increasing central control of local government; the abandonment of any coherent industrial policy; the obsession with housing as an investment, at the expense of actual construction; the privatisation of public service monopolies.

As you fairly say, she turned around the economy - but at the same time embedded deep seated problems which successive governments failed to address.

Today's problems simply aren't amenable to being solved by the policy mix she adopted.

I agree with all the flaws outlined in your post but question whether Thatcher really turned around the economy.

I'm too young to remember her first couple of years in any detail, but all I remember is a string of recessions, the last of which coincided with my entry to the labour market

Indeed, I think that there is a case that most of our current economic problems can be traced back to her policies:

An over centralised state, with little autonomy for councils
An economy that prioritises financial engineering over real engineering
Neglect of old coalfield areas.
Fixation on property as an asset and investment
Conversion of local authority residential property to private Buy to Let.
A chronic trade deficit that can only be financed by selling off assets like utilities to foreign interests.

I am sure others can add more.

Buy to Let is a New Labour legacy not a Thatcher one.

I blame Dion Dublin and Homes Under the Hammer.

A couple of Irish women I know are selling their house in Brittany and they told me the market is very poor at the moment. They have had it valued at 210,000 euros.

It's a detatched 3 bedroom house in about 2/3rds of an acre. They had it built about 15 years ago and it's delightful. I couldn't believe houses like that would sell for what amounts to only £180,000 in such a desirable part of France so close to the South of England.

So I took a look and that price sounds typical. Why aren't the Brits moving there in droves and working from home?

https://www.frenchestateagents.com/brittany-property

Brexit. That was my plan!

I should add, that prior to Brexit some of my colleagues did that. But my employer has stated that for tax and visa reasons, we may not work outside the UK, except for legitimate business travel.

I was hoping to work for my firm in Europe for a while. That was a minor casualty of Brexit.

In today's related news the UK has a severe medicines shortage thanks in large part to Brexit. It is also destroying a profitable pharma export business.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/mar/22/brexit-key-factor-worst-uk-drug-shortages-in-four-years

My wife, a doctor, worked in drug safety at one of the big Swiss pharmas. Brexit was an absolute disaster for the UK pharma industry. I wanted to post some of the stuff that was happening at the time, but she asked me not to for confidentiality reasons. It certainly had a big impact on employment. They cancelled stuff that was moving to the UK and loads has been moved out.

More people work in that industry in the UK than in 2016. See the "Core Biopharma" (lighter blue) bars here:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1344913/biopharmaceutical-employment-in-the-uk/

Meanwhile, the EU continues to regulate R&D away:

https://www.efpia.eu/news-events/the-efpia-view/statements-press-releases/germany-belgium-and-france-among-those-hit-hardest-as-commission-s-pharma-legislation-proposals-risk-europe-losing-a-third-of-its-share-of-global-rd-by-2040/

To be fair, employment in pharma worldwide has increased quite significantly in the last nine years, so it's entirely possible you are both right.

Indeed. Sadly, Google was unable to come up with figure for France etc.

Personally I'd allow any EU, US, Japanese etc. approved drug in, subject to basic checks only.

carnforth said:

rcs1000 said:

carnforth said:

kjh said:

FF43 said:

PJH said:

PJH said:

Roger said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

PJH said:

Nigelb said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

stodge said:

Morning all

We all know the economy and the public finances are in a mess and we also know this didn't start on July 5th last year. Whether or not you think Reeves has made things worse or much worse is up to you but she had a dreadful inheritance and you can argue that how you like.

The central question remains as it has since the post-Covid inflationary boom - how do we get economic growth back? Yes, you can argue we lived off the ponzi scheme that was immigration-led growth for decades - in truth, we always have whether it's cheap labour from the fields, the Carribbean or Eastern Europe. Generating growth with a stagnant work force, an ageing population and all the demands of that ageing population is the conundrum which affects policy makers across most of the world.

We have the inevitable "supply side" response - cut regulation (that's how you end up with raw sewage in the rivers because you can't enforce what regulation you do have), spending (apparently the state is bloated) and taxes (the peasants groaning under the burden of taxes yearning to be free).

The "centre-left" has had no coherent economic policy since 2008 - the "centre right" trots out neo-Thatcherite platitudes which have been tried and failed. It may be technological innovation will be the next spur to economic growth - it's happened many times before.

Until then, we stagnate with a growing ageing population and a declining work force like the hamster stuck on the wheel with the wheel going ever faster. On the one hand, there is clear under employment in some sectors yet vacancy levels in many other sectors are falling as economic activity alows further.

I'll be blunt - I have no answers, no one does. All Governments can do is tinker at the edges and hope, pace Micawber, "something will turn up". The economic, social, cultural and political landscape was fundamentally altered by the pandemic, the responses to the pandemic and the post-pandemic euphoria and we are still adjusting to the new reality of the 2020s.

Um, when? She wasn't perfect, but economic decline was reversed under Thatcher and the fruits of that under Major were 'the golden economic legacy'.

Blair and Brown overspent, overregulated (except when they disastrously underregulated), and made a mess of the constitution and the economy. Cameron and Osborne did nothing to reverse either. Then you have May and Boris, two of the biggest taxers and spenders going.

So when was this neo-Thatcherite failure of which you speak?

It started under her - the selling of state assets to fund current spending; the increasing central control of local government; the abandonment of any coherent industrial policy; the obsession with housing as an investment, at the expense of actual construction; the privatisation of public service monopolies.

As you fairly say, she turned around the economy - but at the same time embedded deep seated problems which successive governments failed to address.

Today's problems simply aren't amenable to being solved by the policy mix she adopted.

I agree with all the flaws outlined in your post but question whether Thatcher really turned around the economy.

I'm too young to remember her first couple of years in any detail, but all I remember is a string of recessions, the last of which coincided with my entry to the labour market

Indeed, I think that there is a case that most of our current economic problems can be traced back to her policies:

An over centralised state, with little autonomy for councils
An economy that prioritises financial engineering over real engineering
Neglect of old coalfield areas.
Fixation on property as an asset and investment
Conversion of local authority residential property to private Buy to Let.
A chronic trade deficit that can only be financed by selling off assets like utilities to foreign interests.

I am sure others can add more.

Buy to Let is a New Labour legacy not a Thatcher one.

I blame Dion Dublin and Homes Under the Hammer.

A couple of Irish women I know are selling their house in Brittany and they told me the market is very poor at the moment. They have had it valued at 210,000 euros.

It's a detatched 3 bedroom house in about 2/3rds of an acre. They had it built about 15 years ago and it's delightful. I couldn't believe houses like that would sell for what amounts to only £180,000 in such a desirable part of France so close to the South of England.

So I took a look and that price sounds typical. Why aren't the Brits moving there in droves and working from home?

https://www.frenchestateagents.com/brittany-property

Brexit. That was my plan!

I should add, that prior to Brexit some of my colleagues did that. But my employer has stated that for tax and visa reasons, we may not work outside the UK, except for legitimate business travel.

I was hoping to work for my firm in Europe for a while. That was a minor casualty of Brexit.

In today's related news the UK has a severe medicines shortage thanks in large part to Brexit. It is also destroying a profitable pharma export business.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/mar/22/brexit-key-factor-worst-uk-drug-shortages-in-four-years

My wife, a doctor, worked in drug safety at one of the big Swiss pharmas. Brexit was an absolute disaster for the UK pharma industry. I wanted to post some of the stuff that was happening at the time, but she asked me not to for confidentiality reasons. It certainly had a big impact on employment. They cancelled stuff that was moving to the UK and loads has been moved out.

More people work in that industry in the UK than in 2016. See the "Core Biopharma" (lighter blue) bars here:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1344913/biopharmaceutical-employment-in-the-uk/

Meanwhile, the EU continues to regulate R&D away:

https://www.efpia.eu/news-events/the-efpia-view/statements-press-releases/germany-belgium-and-france-among-those-hit-hardest-as-commission-s-pharma-legislation-proposals-risk-europe-losing-a-third-of-its-share-of-global-rd-by-2040/

To be fair, employment in pharma worldwide has increased quite significantly in the last nine years, so it's entirely possible you are both right.

Indeed. Sadly, Google was unable to come up with figure for France etc.

Personally I'd allow any EU, US, Japanese etc. approved drug in, subject to basic checks only.

Another reason why, the post-Brexit situation having proved wanting, we need to move back towards the single market. Pronto.

Leon

Jose Ignacio is extremely charming in march (late summer). It’s probably very exciting in high summer. Full of rich hedonistic argentines and Brazilians

But my god it must be dull the rest of the year. It gets COLD here. And grey and windy

So wtf did Martin Amis do for the other 7-8 months of the year? I bet he was bored witless

It’s in Uruguay FFS. You can’t drive to Primrose Hill. Or Brooklyn

TheScreamingEagles

The ECB is interested in building a £500million roofed stadium capable of staging Test cricket and other major matches regardless of the weather and potentially outside of the English summer.

It would be the first of its kind in this country and the largest infrastructure project ever undertaken in English cricket.

There are various reasons behind the idea but a key factor is the recent sale of stakes in the Hundred, which raised more than £525million and has transformed the game’s financial position. The ECB’s membership of first-class counties was previously burdened with around £200million of debt.

The case for covered stadiums has been made by recent rainfall patterns — October 2022 to March 2024 was the wettest 18 months on record in England — but also the historically temperate nature of the English weather. More than 100 days of Test cricket in England have been entirely washed out, or one day lost for every 5.25 Tests played.

Old Trafford in Manchester is by a distance the worst-hit venue, losing on average one day’s play for every 2.7 Tests it stages. The fact that England were denied a 3-2 win in the 2023 Ashes by heavy rain across the last two days of the Manchester Test still rankles.

The ECB chairman, Richard Thompson, is a leading proponent of the scheme and has identified Manchester as the region most in need of a covered stadium. “It has to happen and the stats point to there [Manchester] as a venue,” he said. After such a large financial windfall, it is felt this is the right time to be bold.

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/cricket/article/indoor-cricket-stadium-england-ecb-hobart-cgkbh3kp6

MarqueeMark

TheScreamingEagles said:

The ECB is interested in building a £500million roofed stadium capable of staging Test cricket and other major matches regardless of the weather and potentially outside of the English summer.

It would be the first of its kind in this country and the largest infrastructure project ever undertaken in English cricket.

There are various reasons behind the idea but a key factor is the recent sale of stakes in the Hundred, which raised more than £525million and has transformed the game’s financial position. The ECB’s membership of first-class counties was previously burdened with around £200million of debt.

The case for covered stadiums has been made by recent rainfall patterns — October 2022 to March 2024 was the wettest 18 months on record in England — but also the historically temperate nature of the English weather. More than 100 days of Test cricket in England have been entirely washed out, or one day lost for every 5.25 Tests played.

Old Trafford in Manchester is by a distance the worst-hit venue, losing on average one day’s play for every 2.7 Tests it stages. The fact that England were denied a 3-2 win in the 2023 Ashes by heavy rain across the last two days of the Manchester Test still rankles.

The ECB chairman, Richard Thompson, is a leading proponent of the scheme and has identified Manchester as the region most in need of a covered stadium. “It has to happen and the stats point to there [Manchester] as a venue,” he said. After such a large financial windfall, it is felt this is the right time to be bold.

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/cricket/article/indoor-cricket-stadium-england-ecb-hobart-cgkbh3kp6

How is that controlled atmosphere going to impact swing?

MarqueeMark

I believe every element of the B52 bomber has been replaced. Not an original rivet. Should at least be a B53...

algarkirk

Triggers' broom may seem obvious - it isn't the same, but when it comes to, say replacing bit by bit thousands of part of a boat so that in the end all are replaced (the ship of Theseus) while all the time at sea on a voyage the answer looks different. As it does if you ask about the cell by cell replacement of most or all of baby Bloggs once baby Bloggs is 90 yearsold.

Ancient answers remain, IMO, the best: identity is not conferred by stuff but by certain sorts of continuity (baby Bloggs and 90 year old Bloggs are the same person but different stuff).

Which means that what any item is in essence, in the deepest sense, is not identified with stuff or matter, but of a non material thing called form. Aristotle was right all along. His analysis of objects has never been surpassed.

algarkirk

MattW said:

It's a stupid, pointless question.

The point about a broom is utility, not attitude to it.

It is a deeply important question. If the nature of identity issues (like Triggers' broom) didn't matter then mothers X and Y could accidently swap their babies A and B without it mattering. And person Z performing function C could be killed and replaced by person T performing the same function without moral significance.

Peter_the_Punter

TheScreamingEagles said:

The ECB is interested in building a £500million roofed stadium capable of staging Test cricket and other major matches regardless of the weather and potentially outside of the English summer.

It would be the first of its kind in this country and the largest infrastructure project ever undertaken in English cricket.

There are various reasons behind the idea but a key factor is the recent sale of stakes in the Hundred, which raised more than £525million and has transformed the game’s financial position. The ECB’s membership of first-class counties was previously burdened with around £200million of debt.

The case for covered stadiums has been made by recent rainfall patterns — October 2022 to March 2024 was the wettest 18 months on record in England — but also the historically temperate nature of the English weather. More than 100 days of Test cricket in England have been entirely washed out, or one day lost for every 5.25 Tests played.

Old Trafford in Manchester is by a distance the worst-hit venue, losing on average one day’s play for every 2.7 Tests it stages. The fact that England were denied a 3-2 win in the 2023 Ashes by heavy rain across the last two days of the Manchester Test still rankles.

The ECB chairman, Richard Thompson, is a leading proponent of the scheme and has identified Manchester as the region most in need of a covered stadium. “It has to happen and the stats point to there [Manchester] as a venue,” he said. After such a large financial windfall, it is felt this is the right time to be bold.

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/cricket/article/indoor-cricket-stadium-england-ecb-hobart-cgkbh3kp6

Can somebody explain the attraction of The Hundred to me?

It is a competition between teams I have never heard of and to whom I have no allegiance playing a form of the game more akin to baseball or beach cricket than the game I grew up with and learned to love.

I guess it's my age, in which case I have to say that one consolation of growing old is that I don't have to bother with it.

RochdalePioneers

Entirely off-topic, but I am going to have to watch Adolescence again. Will it demolish me as utterly as it did the first time?

kinabalu

I always feel a new man after a shave, but I know I'm not really. It's all in the mind. Ditto the broom.

TimS

algarkirk said:

MattW said:

It's a stupid, pointless question.

The point about a broom is utility, not attitude to it.

It is a deeply important question. If the nature of identity issues (like Triggers' broom) didn't matter then mothers X and Y could accidently swap their babies A and B without it mattering. And person Z performing function C could be killed and replaced by person T performing the same function without moral significance.

I’d be interested in seeing a PB vote on this. Do we reflect the nation?

Peter_the_Punter

Leon said:

Jose Ignacio is extremely charming in march (late summer). It’s probably very exciting in high summer. Full of rich hedonistic argentines and Brazilians

But my god it must be dull the rest of the year. It gets COLD here. And grey and windy

So wtf did Martin Amis do for the other 7-8 months of the year? I bet he was bored witless

It’s in Uruguay FFS. You can’t drive to Primrose Hill. Or Brooklyn

It's nice to think of him being bored witless rather than his readers.

boulay

The Ship of Theseus/Trigger’s broom issue is the same as the old “a man can never step into the same river twice as they will be a different man and it will be a different river.”

RochdalePioneers

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

TheScreamingEagles

Peter_the_Punter said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

The ECB is interested in building a £500million roofed stadium capable of staging Test cricket and other major matches regardless of the weather and potentially outside of the English summer.

It would be the first of its kind in this country and the largest infrastructure project ever undertaken in English cricket.

There are various reasons behind the idea but a key factor is the recent sale of stakes in the Hundred, which raised more than £525million and has transformed the game’s financial position. The ECB’s membership of first-class counties was previously burdened with around £200million of debt.

The case for covered stadiums has been made by recent rainfall patterns — October 2022 to March 2024 was the wettest 18 months on record in England — but also the historically temperate nature of the English weather. More than 100 days of Test cricket in England have been entirely washed out, or one day lost for every 5.25 Tests played.

Old Trafford in Manchester is by a distance the worst-hit venue, losing on average one day’s play for every 2.7 Tests it stages. The fact that England were denied a 3-2 win in the 2023 Ashes by heavy rain across the last two days of the Manchester Test still rankles.

The ECB chairman, Richard Thompson, is a leading proponent of the scheme and has identified Manchester as the region most in need of a covered stadium. “It has to happen and the stats point to there [Manchester] as a venue,” he said. After such a large financial windfall, it is felt this is the right time to be bold.

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/cricket/article/indoor-cricket-stadium-england-ecb-hobart-cgkbh3kp6

Can somebody explain the attraction of The Hundred to me?

It is a competition between teams I have never heard of and to whom I have no allegiance playing a form of the game more akin to baseball or beach cricket than the game I grew up with and learned to love.

I guess it's my age, in which case I have to say that one consolation of growing old is that I don't have to bother with it.

So, I spoke to somebody at one of the test venue counties, The Hundred is designed to attract new fans.

The reality is unless you have Sky or attend a fee paying school then cricket isn't something youngsters experience.

Boring old farts like thee and me are already into cricket, but they want a new generation of fans.

Why they didn't use the T20 Blast rather than creating The Hundred is beyond me.

Leon

Peter_the_Punter said:

Leon said:

Jose Ignacio is extremely charming in march (late summer). It’s probably very exciting in high summer. Full of rich hedonistic argentines and Brazilians

But my god it must be dull the rest of the year. It gets COLD here. And grey and windy

So wtf did Martin Amis do for the other 7-8 months of the year? I bet he was bored witless

It’s in Uruguay FFS. You can’t drive to Primrose Hill. Or Brooklyn

It's nice to think of him being bored witless rather than his readers.

lol

I have a soft spot for Mart. His plotting was generally terrible and his dialogue pretty poor but he conjured some of the sharpest observations in modern British fiction AND he was, at his best, genuinely lol funny

Very few writers can do that. I’ve had to put down more than one Martin Amis book because laughing too hard

He’s also extremely good on the perils and travails of masculinity. Perhaps because he knew it from both sides - he was a highly intelligent witty successful handsome man. Alpha plus. But given the tiny stature of a deltoid

tlg86

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Given that our esteemed PM talked about this documentary in PMQs, it seems to me that Netflix should make it free to watch.

TimS

Leon said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

Leon said:

Jose Ignacio is extremely charming in march (late summer). It’s probably very exciting in high summer. Full of rich hedonistic argentines and Brazilians

But my god it must be dull the rest of the year. It gets COLD here. And grey and windy

So wtf did Martin Amis do for the other 7-8 months of the year? I bet he was bored witless

It’s in Uruguay FFS. You can’t drive to Primrose Hill. Or Brooklyn

It's nice to think of him being bored witless rather than his readers.

lol

I have a soft spot for Mart. His plotting was generally terrible and his dialogue pretty poor but he conjured some of the sharpest observations in modern British fiction AND he was, at his best, genuinely lol funny

Very few writers can do that. I’ve had to put down more than one Martin Amis book because laughing too hard

He’s also extremely good on the perils and travails of masculinity. Perhaps because he knew it from both sides - he was a highly intelligent witty successful handsome man. Alpha plus. But given the tiny stature of a deltoid

He’s litfic though…

Pagan2

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Hmmm can I suggest you may not be that critical an audience, it was tripe

TheScreamingEagles

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Race baiting twat Elon Musk is getting involved.

https://x.com/Shayan86/status/1903437283153383687

Chris

Eabhal said:

Fffs said:

Eabhal said:

I think I'm in the 29% - at least when it comes to bicycles. It's more of an emotional thing, particularly if you've spent the time and effort to replace parts (and eventually the frame) rather than stick it in the bin the moment it plays up.

Interesting - I have replaced almost everything except the frame on mine, but if I bought a new frame and transfered all the existing components I think I would consider it a new bike.

Perhaps - if more than 50% of the value/weight of the parts have been there for more than 50% of the life of the bike, then it's the same bike? In my head they have a kind of soul - I certainly developed a strong attachment to the car I climbed all my Munros with*, for example.

* Not literally, though Clarkson did bag Cnoc an Fhreiceadain with a Discovery.

I think most people would have a very strong prejudice against saying that they weren't the same person they used to be, because most of the cells in their body have been replaced by new ones.

Roger

Battlebus said:

So your partner gets new teeth, hair implants, a boob job, filler in their face, and a butt lift. Do you have a new partner?

Depends whether she's still under guarantee

BartholomewRoberts

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Absolutely 💯 agreed.

Most stunning thing I've seen in many years. Emotional, powerful and so cleverly done in just one shot.

Daveyboy1961

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

I binge watched it last week. It was excellent. Episode 2 in the school brought back really bad memories of particularly awful year 8 and year 9 classes. The video lessons are sometimes the only way a teacher can make it through the day. School kids can be real bastards sometimes.

Taz

Pagan2 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Hmmm can I suggest you may not be that critical an audience, it was tripe

I don’t have Netflix so I haven’t seen it .

kjh

@carnforth fpt, thanks for your reply. It is a classic error to say but employment in this sector increased post Brexit and therefore Brexit didn't harm it. In the example I gave for instance the Irish operation was being transferred to the UK. That was cancelled. Much of the UK and EU operation was outsourced to India from the UK now the UK had moved out of the EU. There was no longer a reason for keeping it here. The medicine agency for all of Europe was moved out of the UK. Medicine labeling for NI was a disaster because it came under two conflicting rules.

Just because employment has increased in a sector doesn't mean it would have not increased by much more. That is flawed logic. What is more, much of the increase was due to duplication of work eg the Medicine Agency and NI issue.

Brexit was nothing short of a disaster for Pharma in the UK. The fact that Pharma is a success in the UK is despite Brexit.

TimS

TheScreamingEagles said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Race baiting twat Elon Musk is getting involved.

https://x.com/Shayan86/status/1903437283153383687

Elon’s little one line comments below the line on Twitter are a direct insight into what this new US Government is all about.

We should have listened when he started retweeting anti-Ukraine diatribes.

Daveyboy1961

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Single shot movies are defined as one shot or looking like one shot. It was really well done though.

Taz

tlg86 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Given that our esteemed PM talked about this documentary in PMQs, it seems to me that Netflix should make it free to watch.

It’s a drama isn’t it ?

Pagan2

Taz said:

Pagan2 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Hmmm can I suggest you may not be that critical an audience, it was tripe

I don’t have Netflix so I haven’t seen it .

I would choose the words banal and anodyne to describe it frankly......but then we all have our own take on things so watch it and do you.

rottenborough

Leon said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

Leon said:

Jose Ignacio is extremely charming in march (late summer). It’s probably very exciting in high summer. Full of rich hedonistic argentines and Brazilians

But my god it must be dull the rest of the year. It gets COLD here. And grey and windy

So wtf did Martin Amis do for the other 7-8 months of the year? I bet he was bored witless

It’s in Uruguay FFS. You can’t drive to Primrose Hill. Or Brooklyn

It's nice to think of him being bored witless rather than his readers.

lol

I have a soft spot for Mart. His plotting was generally terrible and his dialogue pretty poor but he conjured some of the sharpest observations in modern British fiction AND he was, at his best, genuinely lol funny

Very few writers can do that. I’ve had to put down more than one Martin Amis book because laughing too hard

He’s also extremely good on the perils and travails of masculinity. Perhaps because he knew it from both sides - he was a highly intelligent witty successful handsome man. Alpha plus. But given the tiny stature of a deltoid

Most writers would give their arms in exchange for a bag of only a 1/100 of Amis's crafted sentences.

RochdalePioneers

BartholomewRoberts said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Absolutely 💯 agreed.

Most stunning thing I've seen in many years. Emotional, powerful and so cleverly done in just one shot.

Its release comes at an interesting time. I read the link TSE posted - so the culture war wazzocks think that any program must be about the events that exorcise them and be from the perspective they are wedded to.

Problem is that they are inside the very worst kind of bullshit bubble. Their facts are fiction, their perspectives false, their concerns twisted.

Adolescence cuts straight through this. But for them? Appalling that the killer wasn't an immigrant muslim. Like ALL offenders are in the real world...

TimS

kjh said:

@carnforth fpt, thanks for your reply. It is a classic error to say but employment in this sector increased post Brexit and therefore Brexit didn't harm it. In the example I gave for instance the Irish operation was being transferred to the UK. That was cancelled. Much of the UK and EU operation was outsourced to India from the UK now the UK had moved out of the EU. There was no longer a reason for keeping it here. The medicine agency for all of Europe was moved out of the UK. Medicine labeling for NI was a disaster because it came under two conflicting rules.

Just because employment has increased in a sector doesn't mean it would have not increased by much more. That is flawed logic. What is more, much of the increase was due to duplication of work eg the Medicine Agency and NI issue.

Brexit was nothing short of a disaster for Pharma in the UK. The fact that Pharma is a success in the UK is despite Brexit.

Life sciences was the sector I worked with most in the period after the Brexit vote, to get them ready. I would agree it’s probably one of the 2 or 3 sectors that has objectively lost most - investment, IP ownership, manufacturing - from the upheaval. Along with chemicals and automotive.

The EMA in London was a huge loss, to both us and the EU. Extremely effective agency and a magnet around which European HQs clustered.

Northern_Al

TheScreamingEagles said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Race baiting twat Elon Musk is getting involved.

https://x.com/Shayan86/status/1903437283153383687

They can't even get their facts right. There is no killing on a bus in Adolescence.
Which, by the way, is a work of fiction and of complete genius.

RochdalePioneers

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Single shot movies are defined as one shot or looking like one shot. It was really well done though.

Each episode really was one single continuous shot. Episode 3? 52 minutes. Of which Erin Doherty is the central character for all 52 minutes. Acting mostly across from a young actor who's acting is so intense that I'm not sure she was actually needing to act at the end.

Even if you set all of that aside and just look at the cinematography its a tour-de-force

BartholomewRoberts

RochdalePioneers said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Absolutely 💯 agreed.

Most stunning thing I've seen in many years. Emotional, powerful and so cleverly done in just one shot.

Its release comes at an interesting time. I read the link TSE posted - so the culture war wazzocks think that any program must be about the events that exorcise them and be from the perspective they are wedded to.

Problem is that they are inside the very worst kind of bullshit bubble. Their facts are fiction, their perspectives false, their concerns twisted.

Adolescence cuts straight through this. But for them? Appalling that the killer wasn't an immigrant muslim. Like ALL offenders are in the real world...

For me the creepiest moment in the series was almost a throwaway line but where the guy working in the hardware store tells the father that he's on the son's side.

Demonstrates well that level of horrific, twisted bullshit.

tlg86

Taz said:

tlg86 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Given that our esteemed PM talked about this documentary in PMQs, it seems to me that Netflix should make it free to watch.

It’s a drama isn’t it ?

Starmer called it a documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZnzEZ_CyfA

Yes, he corrected himself, but I think it was quite revealing.

rottenborough

Blue Georgia
@BlueATLGeorgia
Andrew Sullivan: "I do not care about the economy if the government in this country claims it can break down anyone's doors, seize anyone with no due process, put them on a plane, and send them to a foreign jail...

https://x.com/BlueATLGeorgia/status/1903288845128319421

rottenborough

Is the UK prepared for the wave of visa applicants from US who will need to escape Trump 2.0 the way things are going?

Perhaps we should be offering top scientists and engineers a visa deal?

MattW

algarkirk said:

MattW said:

It's a stupid, pointless question.

The point about a broom is utility, not attitude to it.

It is a deeply important question. If the nature of identity issues (like Triggers' broom) didn't matter then mothers X and Y could accidently swap their babies A and B without it mattering. And person Z performing function C could be killed and replaced by person T performing the same function without moral significance.

A question about a person is different to a question about a broom. I was specifically commenting on a broom.

Is there a specific word for anthropomorphism when applied to brooms?

kjh

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Single shot movies are defined as one shot or looking like one shot. It was really well done though.

The other day I saw some film of the filming showing the actors handing over the camera to each other to make it a single shot. One was filming outside of a car and then the camera handed over to an actor in the car filming outside of it. Another was an actor filming people walking in front of her, She hands the camera over to one of the people she is filming, who now films her walking in front of them.

It looked impossible yet the scenes were seamless. No sign of the handover of the camera. Absolutely brilliant watching it done, but I would have been oblivious of it just watching the scenes, as I guess it should be.

Brilliant skill.

rottenborough

tlg86 said:

Taz said:

tlg86 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Given that our esteemed PM talked about this documentary in PMQs, it seems to me that Netflix should make it free to watch.

It’s a drama isn’t it ?

Starmer called it a documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZnzEZ_CyfA

Yes, he corrected himself, but I think it was quite revealing.

There's a rich seam of dramas that are basically documentaries: 'Cathy Come Home' being possibly the original.

Peter_the_Punter

Leon said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

Leon said:

Jose Ignacio is extremely charming in march (late summer). It’s probably very exciting in high summer. Full of rich hedonistic argentines and Brazilians

But my god it must be dull the rest of the year. It gets COLD here. And grey and windy

So wtf did Martin Amis do for the other 7-8 months of the year? I bet he was bored witless

It’s in Uruguay FFS. You can’t drive to Primrose Hill. Or Brooklyn

It's nice to think of him being bored witless rather than his readers.

lol

I have a soft spot for Mart. His plotting was generally terrible and his dialogue pretty poor but he conjured some of the sharpest observations in modern British fiction AND he was, at his best, genuinely lol funny

Very few writers can do that. I’ve had to put down more than one Martin Amis book because laughing too hard

He’s also extremely good on the perils and travails of masculinity. Perhaps because he knew it from both sides - he was a highly intelligent witty successful handsome man. Alpha plus. But given the tiny stature of a deltoid

Thanks, Leon, but I wasn't being entirely serious. May I ask you a perfectly serious one though?

What do you think of Wolfe Hall, or more specifically Hilary Mantel?

I gave up after 140 pages. It wasn't the topic, which I love, or the contrarian view of More and Cromwell, which intrigued me. It was the strange affected 'literary' style that did for me.

Is that just me, or does she rub your fur up the wrong way too?

turbotubbs

At work one of my instruments is a veritable NMR version of Triggers broom. Basic components are a large magnet, a console and a sample changer. In my time at Bath there have been three consoles (one from Varian and two from Bruker), two magnets (one each Oxford Instrumnets and Bruker) and two sample changers. Through all those changes at least one part has remained from the previous version so it has always maintained that link.

Sadly in the autumn it will be completely replaced, and thus cease being Trigger’s 400 MHz NMR spectrometer…

Eabhal

RochdalePioneers said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Absolutely 💯 agreed.

Most stunning thing I've seen in many years. Emotional, powerful and so cleverly done in just one shot.

Its release comes at an interesting time. I read the link TSE posted - so the culture war wazzocks think that any program must be about the events that exorcise them and be from the perspective they are wedded to.

Problem is that they are inside the very worst kind of bullshit bubble. Their facts are fiction, their perspectives false, their concerns twisted.

Adolescence cuts straight through this. But for them? Appalling that the killer wasn't an immigrant muslim. Like ALL offenders are in the real world...

It's just so stupid. It's a drama about a particularly kind of toxic culture amongst some young men; in a predominately white country most of those affected are going to be white. It's also the case that most murder victims are male - but not when it's motivated by this kind of culture. If it was a drama about gangs and knife crime in London then they'd have a sliver of a point. But it wasn't.

What they actually think is that all baddies in all media should be black/trans/Muslim. Remind you of anyone? *Invokes Godwin*.

rottenborough

Tesla is now MAGA.

Can the company survive?

Glad I don't have stock.

dr_spyn

https://x.com/BBCNews/status/1903534330007232595

One half of Scotland's once famous power couple does stand up and has a book to sell.

rottenborough

Peter_the_Punter said:

Leon said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

Leon said:

Jose Ignacio is extremely charming in march (late summer). It’s probably very exciting in high summer. Full of rich hedonistic argentines and Brazilians

But my god it must be dull the rest of the year. It gets COLD here. And grey and windy

So wtf did Martin Amis do for the other 7-8 months of the year? I bet he was bored witless

It’s in Uruguay FFS. You can’t drive to Primrose Hill. Or Brooklyn

It's nice to think of him being bored witless rather than his readers.

lol

I have a soft spot for Mart. His plotting was generally terrible and his dialogue pretty poor but he conjured some of the sharpest observations in modern British fiction AND he was, at his best, genuinely lol funny

Very few writers can do that. I’ve had to put down more than one Martin Amis book because laughing too hard

He’s also extremely good on the perils and travails of masculinity. Perhaps because he knew it from both sides - he was a highly intelligent witty successful handsome man. Alpha plus. But given the tiny stature of a deltoid

Thanks, Leon, but I wasn't being entirely serious. May I ask you a perfectly serious one though?

What do you think of Wolfe Hall, or more specifically Hilary Mantel?

I gave up after 140 pages. It wasn't the topic, which I love, or the contrarian view of More and Cromwell, which intrigued me. It was the strange affected 'literary' style that did for me.

Is that just me, or does she rub your fur up the wrong way too?

I too nearly gave up. The point of view is known as third person historical iirc. V unusual.

But I stuck with it.

Eventually you a swept along as in a dream. Just superb writing.

algarkirk

MattW said:

algarkirk said:

MattW said:

It's a stupid, pointless question.

The point about a broom is utility, not attitude to it.

It is a deeply important question. If the nature of identity issues (like Triggers' broom) didn't matter then mothers X and Y could accidently swap their babies A and B without it mattering. And person Z performing function C could be killed and replaced by person T performing the same function without moral significance.

A question about a person is different to a question about a broom. I was specifically commenting on a broom.

Is there a specific word for anthropomorphism when applied to brooms?

Noted. But the issue is of course not about brooms but about the nature of material objects, of which a broom is one and a human being is another.

Yes it is quite possible that the answer for persons and brooms is different, though personally I don't think it is.

Benpointer

I'm with the 29% because the alternative is: I am not the me I was last year.

https://time.com/archive/6869550/science-the-fleeting-flesh/

Taz

kjh said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Single shot movies are defined as one shot or looking like one shot. It was really well done though.

The other day I saw some film of the filming showing the actors handing over the camera to each other to make it a single shot. One was filming outside of a car and then the camera handed over to an actor in the car filming outside of it. Another was an actor filming people walking in front of her, She hands the camera over to one of the people she is filming, who now films her walking in front of them.

It looked impossible yet the scenes were seamless. No sign of the handover of the camera. Absolutely brilliant watching it done, but I would have been oblivious of it just watching the scenes, as I guess it should be.

Brilliant skill.

Stephen Graham was in a (not very good) film about an angry chef which was all done in one shot.

It spawned a TV show.

tlg86

rottenborough said:

tlg86 said:

Taz said:

tlg86 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Given that our esteemed PM talked about this documentary in PMQs, it seems to me that Netflix should make it free to watch.

It’s a drama isn’t it ?

Starmer called it a documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZnzEZ_CyfA

Yes, he corrected himself, but I think it was quite revealing.

There's a rich seam of dramas that are basically documentaries: 'Cathy Come Home' being possibly the original.

As I understand it, there are two cases which gave inspiration for this drama:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-62119537

The court heard the boy, who has attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and attended a special school, had previously been subject to a community resolution notice after hitting a PCSO last July.

Mrs Justice Yip said he had also been arrested in May last year for assault on two women and by August it was suspected he was being exploited by known criminals.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/mar/13/hassan-sentamu-jailed-murder-elianne-andam-croydon-south-london

Referring to Sentamu’s background, he said: “Hassan’s violent streak, his anger, his outbursts, did not come out of nowhere. He was not born with them. They come from his lived experiences from when he was a little boy.”

Panayi added: “He has enough good in himself to recognise and hate himself for it.” He cited suicide notes at the time of the murder.

Now, these are undeniably shocking. However, there's no suggestion that the internet is to blame.

The Plymouth shooter is perhaps a better example. But he was 22, killed his mum and took some strangers with him, so perhaps not quite as shocking

Taz

Pagan2 said:

Taz said:

Pagan2 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Adolescence.
I watched Episode 1 on a (4 hours late) plane. Alternately tearing up and sitting with my mouth hanging open. Not just the content and the acting - which were both brutal - its the realisation about 17 minutes in that its a single shot.
Episode 2 had been cued up by Clarkson asking "how did they shoot that, its impossible". And it is, and yet here we are
Episode 3 will be studied in acting schools for decades
Episode 4 had me practically weeping at the end

I know, I'm going on about it like Leon goes on about Covid. Sorry...

Hmmm can I suggest you may not be that critical an audience, it was tripe

I don’t have Netflix so I haven’t seen it .

I would choose the words banal and anodyne to describe it frankly......but then we all have our own take on things so watch it and do you.

We don’t have Netflix so I’ll pass.

I also have loads of DVDs to get through.

rottenborough

Vance’s favorability is worse than Harris’s at the same two-month mark and perhaps worse than any new vice president in the history of polling.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2025/03/21/j-d-vance-is-the-most-disliked-new-vice-president-in-history/

Mexicanpete

Leon said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

Leon said:

Jose Ignacio is extremely charming in march (late summer). It’s probably very exciting in high summer. Full of rich hedonistic argentines and Brazilians

But my god it must be dull the rest of the year. It gets COLD here. And grey and windy

So wtf did Martin Amis do for the other 7-8 months of the year? I bet he was bored witless

It’s in Uruguay FFS. You can’t drive to Primrose Hill. Or Brooklyn

It's nice to think of him being bored witless rather than his readers.

lol

I have a soft spot for Mart. His plotting was generally terrible and his dialogue pretty poor but he conjured some of the sharpest observations in modern British fiction AND he was, at his best, genuinely lol funny

Very few writers can do that. I’ve had to put down more than one Martin Amis book because laughing too hard

He’s also extremely good on the perils and travails of masculinity. Perhaps because he knew it from both sides - he was a highly intelligent witty successful handsome man. Alpha plus. But given the tiny stature of a deltoid

I had a relative who had taught Martin Amis at primary school in Swansea when Kingsley was a lecturer at the University. Some thirty years later she bought and read his then current book, she was already and old lady by this point. Her analysis of Amis on reading the book was "the dirty boy". She considered the contents to be nothing more than smut.

rottenborough

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

Leon said:

Jose Ignacio is extremely charming in march (late summer). It’s probably very exciting in high summer. Full of rich hedonistic argentines and Brazilians

But my god it must be dull the rest of the year. It gets COLD here. And grey and windy

So wtf did Martin Amis do for the other 7-8 months of the year? I bet he was bored witless

It’s in Uruguay FFS. You can’t drive to Primrose Hill. Or Brooklyn

It's nice to think of him being bored witless rather than his readers.

lol

I have a soft spot for Mart. His plotting was generally terrible and his dialogue pretty poor but he conjured some of the sharpest observations in modern British fiction AND he was, at his best, genuinely lol funny

Very few writers can do that. I’ve had to put down more than one Martin Amis book because laughing too hard

He’s also extremely good on the perils and travails of masculinity. Perhaps because he knew it from both sides - he was a highly intelligent witty successful handsome man. Alpha plus. But given the tiny stature of a deltoid

I had a relative who had taught Martin Amis at primary school in Swansea when Kingsley was a lecturer at the University. Some thirty years later she bought and read his then current book, she was already and old lady by this point. Her analysis of Amis on reading the book was "the dirty boy". She considered the contents to be nothing more than smut.

Racheal Papers?

algarkirk

rottenborough said:

Is the UK prepared for the wave of visa applicants from US who will need to escape Trump 2.0 the way things are going?

Perhaps we should be offering top scientists and engineers a visa deal?

Good question. It really could happen. On a related matter, it seems to me that a lot of thoughtful people in the UK really don't want to talk about the subject of the internal politics of the USA. My sense is this reflects a real level of distress and sadness about this incomprehensible and wholly malign change that is coming upon the world and upon our children and grandchildren.

The BBC has not quite caught up with the magnitude of this have they? I think the Guardian is getting there.

AnneJGP

Chris said:

Eabhal said:

Fffs said:

Eabhal said:

I think I'm in the 29% - at least when it comes to bicycles. It's more of an emotional thing, particularly if you've spent the time and effort to replace parts (and eventually the frame) rather than stick it in the bin the moment it plays up.

Interesting - I have replaced almost everything except the frame on mine, but if I bought a new frame and transfered all the existing components I think I would consider it a new bike.

Perhaps - if more than 50% of the value/weight of the parts have been there for more than 50% of the life of the bike, then it's the same bike? In my head they have a kind of soul - I certainly developed a strong attachment to the car I climbed all my Munros with*, for example.

* Not literally, though Clarkson did bag Cnoc an Fhreiceadain with a Discovery.

I think most people would have a very strong prejudice against saying that they weren't the same person they used to be, because most of the cells in their body have been replaced by new ones.

How long does it take for all one's cells to be completely replaced? Some would like to argue that they weren't the person who ran up all that debt.

rcs1000

Kari Lake is really quite mad:

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/arizona-sen-gallego-accosted-by-lake-at-dc-club-report-21425870

turbotubbs

rottenborough said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

Leon said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

Leon said:

Jose Ignacio is extremely charming in march (late summer). It’s probably very exciting in high summer. Full of rich hedonistic argentines and Brazilians

But my god it must be dull the rest of the year. It gets COLD here. And grey and windy

So wtf did Martin Amis do for the other 7-8 months of the year? I bet he was bored witless

It’s in Uruguay FFS. You can’t drive to Primrose Hill. Or Brooklyn

It's nice to think of him being bored witless rather than his readers.

lol

I have a soft spot for Mart. His plotting was generally terrible and his dialogue pretty poor but he conjured some of the sharpest observations in modern British fiction AND he was, at his best, genuinely lol funny

Very few writers can do that. I’ve had to put down more than one Martin Amis book because laughing too hard

He’s also extremely good on the perils and travails of masculinity. Perhaps because he knew it from both sides - he was a highly intelligent witty successful handsome man. Alpha plus. But given the tiny stature of a deltoid

Thanks, Leon, but I wasn't being entirely serious. May I ask you a perfectly serious one though?

What do you think of Wolfe Hall, or more specifically Hilary Mantel?

I gave up after 140 pages. It wasn't the topic, which I love, or the contrarian view of More and Cromwell, which intrigued me. It was the strange affected 'literary' style that did for me.

Is that just me, or does she rub your fur up the wrong way too?

I too nearly gave up. The point of view is known as third person historical iirc. V unusual.

But I stuck with it.

Eventually you a swept along as in a dream. Just superb writing.

Wolfe Hall is good, but she failed to write with clarity around dialogue and I frequently lost the thread of who was speaking or thinking. I think it was criticised so in the sequel she wrote endlessly ‘he, Cromwell,’ throughout and that was probably worse.
Started the last one, but never finished. In some ways Cromwell is better if he doesn’t lose in the end…

MattW

I just spotted that there is CCTV from that collision we were discussing in Colchester where the student lost control of his car (Ford Focus, 4am), partially demolished the store called Dusty's, and killed all 4 in the vehicle.

This BBC piece has it:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjw4p3z758eo

I can't quite measure the speed - the distance from the end of the first white line to the end of the white line after the "get on the Left" arrow is just on 20m, and all I can say of the time is that it is well under one second.

1s for 20m is around 45mph, so it's likely to be a lot more than that. The building they part-demolished was 200m further on on the right, with three sets of pedestrian refuges in the middle first.

Location of the CCTV is here, inside "Cut and Coffee": https://maps.app.goo.gl/UdZGZyQSsWtUDMNW8

The view I take of these are that those who killed themselves are a sunk cost, and it's about preventing the next lot doing the same, and making sure that they don't kill innocent passers-by as well.

stodge

The Opinium VI numbers (based on the data tables):

Labour: 26% (-2)
Reform 26% (-1)
Conservative 21% (+1)
Liberal Democrats: 13% (+1)
Greens: 8% (nc)

No significant change though some slight improvement in Badenoch's ratings as Starmer's fall back but again nothing too drastic.

Looking at voter shifts since last July, Labour has lost a third of those voting for them then with the ex-Labour voters going to all parties.

The Conservatives have lost 20% of their 2024 vote to Reform but have picked up voters from other parties.

The Liberal Democrats have retained 79% of their 2024 vote while Reform not only have 87% of their own 2024 vote but have picked up from both Conservative and Labour in equal numbers.