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The New Rome? – politicalbetting.com

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  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,696
    Leon said:

    No, PB has reached the insane point when anyone who dares to mention an awkward fact that might discomfort the Dems, the American Left, the anti-Trumpers - is regarded as a Nazi, a conspiracy theorist, and a Trumpite coup-encourager, and so forth. Rather than someone pointing out that there are two sides to this story, and there is a reason so many Americans voted Trump and abhor the Democrats, they are not all Hitler-its thickos, even at the same time as Trump IS a mad buffoon who should be nowhere near the Oval


    We saw the same shit vis a vis Ukraine, we see it here, it’s just a sad dumbing down of the site, as inability to do nuance, a kind of dim, morally shrill groupthink, and it is getting REALLY old



    Yup, I think in an election rerun Trump would still win both the EC and PV. I don't think there's really a realisation of how fed up average Americans are with the constant drum beat of DEI and culture war stuff that comes from the left, even in blue states friends of mine are quite pleased to see the back of it all under Trump despite everything else he's doing. Again, I'll point to the wide condemnation among the left that the Dems encouraged against Gavin Newsom when he pointed out the bleeding obvious that allowing biological men into women's sports is unfair. People see that and the lizard part of their brain just switches off from anything else the Dems have to offer IMO. Until they get real on this and other similar subjects I don't see the Dems making any real headway in the 1 v 1 presidential election.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,334

    Errrr, that's the point! Leavitt wasn't telling the truth either!
    Ah I see. Sorry :)
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,334

    Again, I will ask, if Trump was a Russian asset what would he have done differently?

    Scoop: The Trump administration has discussed recognizing Crimea as Russian territory - & pushing the UN to do the same - to get a peace deal across the finish line.

    (No decisions have been formally made) w/ @mchalfant16:


    https://x.com/ShelbyTalcott/status/1901700671860043898

    Better for the Chinese than the Russians.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,240
    HYUFD said:

    It is in large part because of France that the United States of America doesn't have King Charles III as its head of state now
    I am not sure that the Nazis planned to make everyone speak German. I imagine the French would have continued to speak French. I am not sure what their hellish plans for Russia and the Baltic States would have been like. They might have tried to establish German as the main language there. I don't think they would have made the UK speak German either.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,994

    OGH has told me to permanently ban Leon if he breaks the site rules again or goes down the white babies angle.

    OGH isn't going to be out of pocket because Leon cannot follow the rules.
    I am quite willing to follow rules (It helps if they are clear) - it’s your site

    But if I am merely going to be banned for attitudes and opinions and gags which enrage the centrist dads, then PB is not really a debate forum but a silo of deadening consensus

    Eg what have I done today which is remote bannable? Made a few jokes, insulted Irish orthography, pointed out - quite truthfully - that serious allegations swirl against the Biden family, some of which have turned into confessions and convictions. That’s it
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,855

    I am not sure that the Nazis planned to make everyone speak German. I imagine the French would have continued to speak French. I am not sure what their hellish plans for Russia and the Baltic States would have been like. They might have tried to establish German as the main language there. I don't think they would have made the UK speak German either.
    So, you're saying that really there was no need to fight WW2?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,562
    edited March 17
    Leon said:

    That’s more like the @Cyclefree I know and love. Got your pep back. Good to see

    You could profitably ask yourself why and how the very plausible, indeed proven accusations against Joe Biden miraculously disappeared (proven inasmuch as this is the verbatim account of his daughter, which she has not denied). How come someone as switched on as you never heard of them? Possibly because the Dems do a pretty good job in suppressing stories they don’t like - cf lab leak and Hunter’s laptop. They usually do it by labeling it as a “conspiracy theory” until it turns out to be undeniably true, by which point they hope no one cares

    Again, I turn to lab leak. I know this bores PB but TWENTY MILLION PEOPLE DIED

    And now that it is basically accepted that it happened suddenly the Left pivots from “it came from the market” to “shit happens, let’s move on, it was just an accident, who really cares”


    Imagine if 20 million humans died due to an air crash or an industrial accident. Finding, trying and punishing the culprits would consume us for years and years
    I do not follow US politics closely. My heart is in Europe. I have some topics I am interested in, not all of which I discuss on here. And I try to limit how much time I spend on current affairs for my own sanity. But I would not be surprised. Lord Devlin - a very distinguished judge abused his own daughter - and Cardinal Heenan, the then leader of Catholics in the U.K., was told about it but said that better it happen to the daughter than for him to take a mistress. I could list out here - and it would take a hell of a lot of posts - the number of men found guilty of child abuse / possession of child abuse images etc - who get no custodial sentences at all.

    The brutal reality is that far more men than we would like to admit are sexually attracted to children. And we have a society in which the sexualisation of girls and boys, the ubiquity of horrific pornography, the worship of adult women with bodies aping pre-pubescent girls, the abandonment of any serious attempt at genuine safeguarding is seen as normal. And those - mostly but not of course exclusively - women who call this out are often criticised for pointing out the harm this causes.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,231
    Leon said:

    I am quite willing to follow rules (It helps if they are clear) - it’s your site

    But if I am merely going to be banned for attitudes and opinions and gags which enrage the centrist dads, then PB is not really a debate forum but a silo of deadening consensus

    Eg what have I done today which is remote bannable? Made a few jokes, insulted Irish orthography, pointed out - quite truthfully - that serious allegations swirl against the Biden family, some of which have turned into confessions and convictions. That’s it
    You voted for Starmer, you are the epitome of a centrist dad.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,010
    edited March 17

    RADICAL RIGHT LUNATICS!!!
    Interestingly I can read Hodges tweets again even though he had me previously blocked for a complaint to the PCC re this article:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100246867/a-year-ago-the-tories-were-bracing-for-a-heavy-defeat-now-theyre-going-for-the-win/ (Dead link now it seems)
    Which the PCC found in his favour

    I only asked them to publish the relevant polls in accordance with BPC rules !
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,732
    Related to the header and thanks to you @Cyclefree

    "If you are a citizen and you are casting doubt on the importance of due process, remember this: you need due process in order to prove that you are a citizen."

    "If members of the executive branch are allowed to issue truth claims that have the consequence that human beings leave the United States, we are in a dictatorship. If we accept that the executive branch can simply deport anyone they call a "foreign alien terrorist," then none of us has any rights."

    https://snyder.substack.com/p/the-evil-at-your-door
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,240
    rcs1000 said:

    So, you're saying that really there was no need to fight WW2?
    I think that there was little need to fight World War 1. That set in train a path toward World War 2 that was probably unavoidable.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,334

    I am not sure that the Nazis planned to make everyone speak German. I imagine the French would have continued to speak French. I am not sure what their hellish plans for Russia and the Baltic States would have been like. They might have tried to establish German as the main language there. I don't think they would have made the UK speak German either.
    Decisive! No wishy washy thinking from @Luckyguy1983 (Sorry LG :))
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,562
    Leon said:

    That’s more like the @Cyclefree I know and love. Got your pep back. Good to see

    You could profitably ask yourself why and how the very plausible, indeed proven accusations against Joe Biden miraculously disappeared (proven inasmuch as this is the verbatim account of his daughter, which she has not denied). How come someone as switched on as you never heard of them? Possibly because the Dems do a pretty good job in suppressing stories they don’t like - cf lab leak and Hunter’s laptop. They usually do it by labeling it as a “conspiracy theory” until it turns out to be undeniably true, by which point they hope no one cares

    Again, I turn to lab leak. I know this bores PB but TWENTY MILLION PEOPLE DIED

    And now that it is basically accepted that it happened suddenly the Left pivots from “it came from the market” to “shit happens, let’s move on, it was just an accident, who really cares”


    Imagine if 20 million humans died due to an air crash or an industrial accident. Finding, trying and punishing the culprits would consume us for years and years
    "Let's move on" is the response of the British state - not just the left - to pretty much all scandals.
    It shouldn't be.

    That in 2 short sentences is my book. (I hope you're proud of me.) Your glowing encomium for the cover will be on its way, I'm sure.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,240
    Omnium said:

    Decisive! No wishy washy thinking from @Luckyguy1983 (Sorry LG :))
    I thought it was worth commenting because this 'would be speaking German if it weren't for us' is an oft repeated American claim, and I am just not sure it's valid.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335
    Kemi still relevant enough to get a heckler who is removed from the room she is speaking at

    https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/1901698139943530796
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,380

    Errrr, that's the point! Leavitt wasn't telling the truth either!
    It's only because of 'us' that 'they' are "not speaking German right now".

    This is on my (long) list of hackneyed phrases that cause the user to fall in my estimation. A fate that all good people strive to avoid.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,240
    HYUFD said:

    Kemi still relevant enough to get a heckler who is removed from the room she is speaking at

    https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/1901698139943530796

    That David Gauke gets around.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335

    Again, I will ask, if Trump was a Russian asset what would he have done differently?

    Scoop: The Trump administration has discussed recognizing Crimea as Russian territory - & pushing the UN to do the same - to get a peace deal across the finish line.

    (No decisions have been formally made) w/ @mchalfant16:


    https://x.com/ShelbyTalcott/status/1901700671860043898

    Even Farage has said Putin should get Crimea as the minimum for a peace deal

    https://national.thelead.uk/p/nigel-farage-has-exposed-his-true
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,231
    HYUFD said:

    Even Farage has said Putin should get Crimea as the minimum for a peace deal

    https://national.thelead.uk/p/nigel-farage-has-exposed-his-true
    Mrs Thatcher would call out such shameful appeasement talk.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,920
    I don't think Ukraine is going to get Crimea back, realistically speaking.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,163
    HYUFD said:

    Even Farage has said

    Who cares
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,581
    Powerful header. Has felt a bit odd that we haven't had one on what is perhaps the most significant story of the decade, America's slide into dictatorship. No criticism of the site intended.

    The key question is will Americans notice the disaster before it is too late?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,221

    Mrs Thatcher would call out such shameful appeasement talk.
    She didn't call out Deng over his threat to invade Hong Kong island.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,231

    She didn't call out Deng over his threat to invade Hong Kong island.
    Another one of you non sequiturs.

    Still at least Ukraine couldn't risk Biden Catholicism, eh?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,380
    Leon said:

    Ah, so I must be banned again

    For my “attitude” and “behaviour”

    Not for doing anything wrong any more, simply for voicing opinions - attitudes - you do not like
    You shouldn't underestimate how predictable and boring you are becoming.

    There is no pleasure in saying this and you should thank me for it. Like the person who catches the rancid breath of a work colleague and offers them a polo.

    But no doubt it will be taken the wrong way. As indeed could be the case with the polo.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,334

    I thought it was worth commenting because this 'would be speaking German if it weren't for us' is an oft repeated American claim, and I am just not sure it's valid.
    It was just funny. The start of the sentences.

    I'm not sure
    I imagine
    I am not sure
    They might
    I don't think

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,371

    I thought it was worth commenting because this 'would be speaking German if it weren't for us' is an oft repeated American claim, and I am just not sure it's valid.
    Victory in WW2 wasn’t just down to the Americans either, though they seem to think it was.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,920
    kinabalu said:

    You shouldn't underestimate how predictable and boring you are becoming.

    There is no pleasure in saying this and you should thank me for it. Like the person who catches the rancid breath of a work colleague and offers them a polo.

    But no doubt it will be taken the wrong way. As indeed could be the case with the polo.
    This is all making me very hungry for Polo's. I haven't had one for about 15 years.

    I would also need some cola bottles, to be able to properly reflect on world events.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 861
    HYUFD said:

    Even Farage has said Putin should get Crimea as the minimum for a peace deal

    https://national.thelead.uk/p/nigel-farage-has-exposed-his-true
    Another Russian asset?
    It's a strange negotiation when you set out the minimum you'll concede.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,371
    kinabalu said:

    It's only because of 'us' that 'they' are "not speaking German right now".

    This is on my (long) list of hackneyed phrases that cause the user to fall in my estimation. A fate that all good people strive to avoid.
    It’s worth contemplating Nazi plans for their Eastern Empire, which was to be their India. Locals reduced to uneducated slaves, able to perhaps read road signs for safety, German towns and huge farms for thousands of miles. The ultimate in Germanisation. And what of the rest of Europe? I don’t think France would have been forced to speak German but the German langauge would have been the, ahem, linga Franca, as it were.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,732
    Dopermean said:

    Another Russian asset?
    It's a strange negotiation when you set out the minimum you'll concede.
    Matthew Parris in this week's Speccie, claims when he went to Ukr every person he met under 25 thought that Crimea wasn't worth arguing over and would agree to Russia keeping.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,010
    Simon Harris livid about getting the treatment from Trump. Ol' Starmer craftily avoided with his letter from the king
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,121
    FPT…

    At last year’s general election, Labour got the highest vote share in every class category, every income category, and in every housing category except “own outright” (won by Reform). See details at https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49978-how-britain-voted-in-the-2024-general-election
    Mea culpa on the Own Outright category: I read that wrong.

    What stands out for me on the socio-economic group chart is now similar the vote share is across all the groups. Class is not the major determiner of voting intention it once was. It’s age and education level that matter more, and there are still plenty of people at all ages and education levels voting for all the different parties.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,994
    Cyclefree said:

    I do not follow US politics closely. My heart is in Europe. I have some topics I am interested in, not all of which I discuss on here. And I try to limit how much time I spend on current affairs for my own sanity. But I would not be surprised. Lord Devlin - a very distinguished judge abused his own daughter - and Cardinal Heenan, the then leader of Catholics in the U.K., was told about it but said that better it happen to the daughter than for him to take a mistress. I could list out here - and it would take a hell of a lot of posts - the number of men found guilty of child abuse / possession of child abuse images etc - who get no custodial sentences at all.

    The brutal reality is that far more men than we would like to admit are sexually attracted to children. And we have a society in which the sexualisation of girls and boys, the ubiquity of horrific pornography, the worship of adult women with bodies aping pre-pubescent girls, the abandonment of any serious attempt at genuine safeguarding is seen as normal. And those - mostly but not of course exclusively - women who call this out are often criticised for pointing out the harm this causes.
    Darling, I would not argue with any of that
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,539

    I am not sure that the Nazis planned to make everyone speak German. I imagine the French would have continued to speak French. I am not sure what their hellish plans for Russia and the Baltic States would have been like. They might have tried to establish German as the main language there. I don't think they would have made the UK speak German either.
    The official German plan was to leave France to the Fascist French.

    In the East, the locals would be replaced with Germans. The locals would be turned into serfs. Those that survived.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,221

    Another one of you non sequiturs.

    Still at least Ukraine couldn't risk Biden Catholicism, eh?
    It's a historical fact.

    Can you provide a citation for Biden criticising the Pope's comments about Ukraine?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,371

    @leon mate - take a break. Step away for an hour or two. Go and investigate the quality of the snacks in the airport lounge you are waiting in.

    If PB is a pub, a metaphor you have used now and again, then I am an old git gently putting an arm around your shoulder and saying: maybe that's enough for one evening old son.

    You are an asset to this site most of the time imho, sparky, interesting, bombastic, entertaining etc etc and unlike some, I enjoy the travel stuff. For health reasons I can no longer travel so maybe this is some vicarious thing, but anyway.

    Don't get banned permanently which it seems you are on the brink of.

    I wholeheartedly agree with.this. If you get banned I'll need to follow some right prat on X who travels a lot and bangs on about similar shit to you.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,226

    It’s worth contemplating Nazi plans for their Eastern Empire, which was to be their India. Locals reduced to uneducated slaves, able to perhaps read road signs for safety, German towns and huge farms for thousands of miles. The ultimate in Germanisation. And what of the rest of Europe? I don’t think France would have been forced to speak German but the German langauge would have been the, ahem, linga Franca, as it were.

    There was a "Zone Interdite" west and north of Alsace-Lorraine, intended for German settlement.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,430
    Cyclefree said:

    There's no pleasing this forum. Either my headers are too long or too short. This is 620 words. I wrote it over breakfast before heading for Scotland where I now am for a wedding. It is pretty much the first day in ages I have not felt ill or had some health issue to worry about as has been the case for the last few months.

    But the sun is shining, the landscape is glorious and so my convalescence continues. God willing I will be back to my old self before spring and summer really get underway.
    Welcome to Scotland. Visiting us is bound to make you feel better.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,163

    I wholeheartedly agree with.this. If you get banned I'll need to follow some right prat on X who travels a lot and bangs on about similar shit to you.

    I used to follow that SeanT bloke on Twitter, but he blocked me.

    Fucking snowflake
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,994
    kinabalu said:

    You shouldn't underestimate how predictable and boring you are becoming.

    There is no pleasure in saying this and you should thank me for it. Like the person who catches the rancid breath of a work colleague and offers them a polo.

    But no doubt it will be taken the wrong way. As indeed could be the case with the polo.
    If we were all to be banned for being “predictable” and “boring” then 90% of PB wouldn’t last half an hour, especially the Centrist Dads

    And most especially…. you
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,226

    She didn't call out Deng over his threat to invade Hong Kong island.
    She didn't appease Galtieri, did she?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,380

    This is all making me very hungry for Polo's. I haven't had one for about 15 years.

    I would also need some cola bottles, to be able to properly reflect on world events.
    The hole is bigger now. Sign of the times.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,226
    kinabalu said:

    The hole is bigger now. Sign of the times.
    Sugar-free ones too!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,380
    Leon said:

    If we were all to be banned for being “predictable” and “boring” then 90% of PB wouldn’t last half an hour, especially the Centrist Dads

    And most especially…. you
    I've said my piece. You keep going as you are if you like. I know the self-image of "fruity challenger to the staid consensus" is strong.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,307
    MaxPB said:

    Yup, I think in an election rerun Trump would still win both the EC and PV. I don't think there's really a realisation of how fed up average Americans are with the constant drum beat of DEI and culture war stuff that comes from the left, even in blue states friends of mine are quite pleased to see the back of it all under Trump despite everything else he's doing. Again, I'll point to the wide condemnation among the left that the Dems encouraged against Gavin Newsom when he pointed out the bleeding obvious that allowing biological men into women's sports is unfair. People see that and the lizard part of their brain just switches off from anything else the Dems have to offer IMO. Until they get real on this and other similar subjects I don't see the Dems making any real headway in the 1 v 1 presidential election.
    Rather like someone who wanted the Conservatives to "stop banging on about Europe" and then created the conditions when "Europe" was all the party talked about for nearly a decade despite leading the Government (in no small part due to the paucity of the opposition) until it drove itself off a cliff.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,682

    Matthew Parris in this week's Speccie, claims when he went to Ukr every person he met under 25 thought that Crimea wasn't worth arguing over and would agree to Russia keeping.

    What did MP's mates in the bistro make of the last election here or in America?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,380

    I gave this a like although in truth I didn't agree with all of it, specifically the phrase "I like you Leon."
    That was just a typo, I think.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,682
    Cyclefree said:

    I do not follow US politics closely. My heart is in Europe. I have some topics I am interested in, not all of which I discuss on here. And I try to limit how much time I spend on current affairs for my own sanity. But I would not be surprised. Lord Devlin - a very distinguished judge abused his own daughter - and Cardinal Heenan, the then leader of Catholics in the U.K., was told about it but said that better it happen to the daughter than for him to take a mistress. I could list out here - and it would take a hell of a lot of posts - the number of men found guilty of child abuse / possession of child abuse images etc - who get no custodial sentences at all.

    The brutal reality is that far more men than we would like to admit are sexually attracted to children. And we have a society in which the sexualisation of girls and boys, the ubiquity of horrific pornography, the worship of adult women with bodies aping pre-pubescent girls, the abandonment of any serious attempt at genuine safeguarding is seen as normal. And those - mostly but not of course exclusively - women who call this out are often criticised for pointing out the harm this causes.
    I'm really not sure blaming women with the wrong-sized bodies does much for the feminist cause.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,994

    @leon mate - take a break. Step away for an hour or two. Go and investigate the quality of the snacks in the airport lounge you are waiting in.

    If PB is a pub, a metaphor you have used now and again, then I am an old git gently putting an arm around your shoulder and saying: maybe that's enough for one evening old son.

    You are an asset to this site most of the time imho, sparky, interesting, bombastic, entertaining etc etc and unlike some, I enjoy the travel stuff. For health reasons I can no longer travel so maybe this is some vicarious thing, but anyway.

    Don't get banned permanently which it seems you are on the brink of.

    The other night - after the always-entertaining @CorrectHorseBattery said he was quitting the site merely because I had returned, I had a fit of conscience, or satirical intent

    I genuinely don’t want to drive people away merely by my presence. But nor will I be told what and when I can speak, above and beyond the rules, due to some special rules which only apply to me (and are often opaque if not non-existent). I get that several mods want me gone, forever, and quite a few commenters likewise - but TBH I think much of this is driven by the fact I articulately deliver opinions others don’t like, it’s got nothing to do with rule breaking

    So fuck it, as I said then - mainly in jest, but now for real - call a vote. Let’s have a PB plebiscite. You can vote for me to disappear entirely and I shall do so. Or you can vote for me to stay but if I I stay then I need an end to the endless calls for me to be banned simply for having “the wrong attitudes”

    Let’s do it. Let a neutral organize it. This may be seen as an ultimate exercise in narcissism by me, and it is, I am a horrific narcissist - - but on the other hand I swear if the vote goes against me I will abide by it. No more reincarnations. My narcissism will disappear forever, and those can’t abide me will be satisfied for good

    I suggest One Commenter One Vote. It’s Leave or Remain Leon!

    C’mon, it could be fun

    I reckon it’s 5/4 Remain


  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,920
    That press conference by Conor Mcgregor at the White House really is "pukesome", as they used to say in my university.

    Ireland and America we are siblings,’ McGregor responded, saying it was important ‘for Irish Americans to have a place to visit.’

    ‘We wish to be taken care of by the big bro. The United States should look after its little bro. That’s how we
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,226
    edited March 17

    That press conference by Conor Mcgregor at the White House really is "pukesome", as they used to say in my university.

    Ireland and America we are siblings,’ McGregor responded, saying it was important ‘for Irish Americans to have a place to visit.’

    ‘We wish to be taken care of by the big bro. The United States should look after its little bro. That’s how we

    Princess Stick Insect Kate could at least have downed a FULL pint of Guinness today :lol:

    (says Sunil, the tee-totaller!)
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,920
    ",That's how we feel", that should read below.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,121
    Opposition to abortion is more about people’s negative views of casual sex than about protecting the sanctity of life: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/19485506251320681 Abstract reads:

    Pro-life individuals often emphasize sanctity-of-life concerns as driving their opposition to abortion. This implies the straightforward prediction that the more strongly people oppose abortion for such reasons (e.g., “abortion is murder”), the more they will endorse policies preventing abortions (face-value account). An alternative suggests that typically nonconscious reproductive goals (e.g., discouraging casual sex) influence policy preferences; this strategic account predicts a different pattern of policy endorsement: all else equal, abortion opponents will prioritize abortion-preventing policies discouraging casual sex. A pilot study and two preregistered U.S. experiments (N = 1,960) provide relatively greater support for the strategic account: the strongest abortion opponents more strongly endorse policies that prevent abortions by discouraging casual sex (e.g., abortion bans, abstinence-only sex education) over policies that do not (comprehensive sex education)—even controlling for conservatism and religiosity. Commonly voiced arguments against abortion may be more rhetorically effective but less reflective of genuine drivers underlying arguers’ beliefs.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,997
    Leon said:

    The other night - after the always-entertaining @CorrectHorseBattery said he was quitting the site merely because I had returned, I had a fit of conscience, or satirical intent

    I genuinely don’t want to drive people away merely by my presence. But nor will I be told what and when I can speak, above and beyond the rules, due to some special rules which only apply to me (and are often opaque if not non-existent). I get that several mods want me gone, forever, and quite a few commenters likewise - but TBH I think much of this is driven by the fact I articulately deliver opinions others don’t like, it’s got nothing to do with rule breaking

    So fuck it, as I said then - mainly in jest, but now for real - call a vote. Let’s have a PB plebiscite. You can vote for me to disappear entirely and I shall do so. Or you can vote for me to stay but if I I stay then I need an end to the endless calls for me to be banned simply for having “the wrong attitudes”

    Let’s do it. Let a neutral organize it. This may be seen as an ultimate exercise in narcissism by me, and it is, I am a horrific narcissist - - but on the other hand I swear if the vote goes against me I will abide by it. No more reincarnations. My narcissism will disappear forever, and those can’t abide me will be satisfied for good

    I suggest One Commenter One Vote. It’s Leave or Remain Leon!

    C’mon, it could be fun

    I reckon it’s 5/4 Remain


    Could be close. I think you should write two responses anticipating either outcome.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335
    edited March 17

    FPT…

    Mea culpa on the Own Outright category: I read that wrong.

    What stands out for me on the socio-economic group chart is now similar the vote share is across all the groups. Class is not the major determiner of voting intention it once was. It’s age and education level that matter more, and there are still plenty of people at all ages and education levels voting for all the different parties.
    Class is in the UK the biggest determinant of whether someone would vote LD or Reform, age is the biggest determinant of whether they would vote Conservative or Labour now
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,231
    My word, I have found some absolute trash TV.

    On Disney+ they have have first ten episodes of season one of Doctor Odyssey, it is utter trash but utterly compelling and entertaining.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,334
    Leon said:

    The other night - after the always-entertaining @CorrectHorseBattery said he was quitting the site merely because I had returned, I had a fit of conscience, or satirical intent

    I genuinely don’t want to drive people away merely by my presence. But nor will I be told what and when I can speak, above and beyond the rules, due to some special rules which only apply to me (and are often opaque if not non-existent). I get that several mods want me gone, forever, and quite a few commenters likewise - but TBH I think much of this is driven by the fact I articulately deliver opinions others don’t like, it’s got nothing to do with rule breaking

    So fuck it, as I said then - mainly in jest, but now for real - call a vote. Let’s have a PB plebiscite. You can vote for me to disappear entirely and I shall do so. Or you can vote for me to stay but if I I stay then I need an end to the endless calls for me to be banned simply for having “the wrong attitudes”

    Let’s do it. Let a neutral organize it. This may be seen as an ultimate exercise in narcissism by me, and it is, I am a horrific narcissist - - but on the other hand I swear if the vote goes against me I will abide by it. No more reincarnations. My narcissism will disappear forever, and those can’t abide me will be satisfied for good

    I suggest One Commenter One Vote. It’s Leave or Remain Leon!

    C’mon, it could be fun

    I reckon it’s 5/4 Remain


    Box of frogs wins by a mile.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,221
    Would Corbyn now be denied entry to the US?

    https://x.com/dhsgov/status/1901668299793899705

    Last month, Rasha Alawieh traveled to Beirut, Lebanon, to attend the funeral of Hassan Nasrallah— a brutal terrorist who led Hezbollah, responsible for killing hundreds of Americans over a four-decade terror spree. Alawieh openly admitted to this to CBP officers, as well as her support of Nasrallah.

    A visa is a privilege not a right—glorifying and supporting terrorists who kill Americans is grounds for visa issuance to be denied. This is commonsense security.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335

    She didn't call out Deng over his threat to invade Hong Kong island.
    Mrs Thatcher picked wars she could win, she knew she could crush Galtieri's Argentina, she also knew she couldn't defeat the million strong Chinese army so signed the deal confirming the return of Hong Kong to China in 1997
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335

    Would Corbyn now be denied entry to the US?

    https://x.com/dhsgov/status/1901668299793899705

    Last month, Rasha Alawieh traveled to Beirut, Lebanon, to attend the funeral of Hassan Nasrallah— a brutal terrorist who led Hezbollah, responsible for killing hundreds of Americans over a four-decade terror spree. Alawieh openly admitted to this to CBP officers, as well as her support of Nasrallah.

    A visa is a privilege not a right—glorifying and supporting terrorists who kill Americans is grounds for visa issuance to be denied. This is commonsense security.

    I doubt he would care less, he is more likely to travel to Cuba or Iran or Venezuala than Trump's USA
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,464

    I'm really not sure blaming women with the wrong-sized bodies does much for the feminist cause.
    I think the current fashion for no body hair is what @Cyclefree is getting at. It is a pre-pubertal aesthetic.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,375
    Eabhal said:

    It's the police you want to worry about. Lots of guns; very MAGA.

    (And thanks Cyclefree. I was vaguely aware of the law firm thing but did not understand why it was so important).
    I hadn’t realised they were going after their clients as well.

    This is the HLS precedent which finally required the Bank of England to provide commercial banking services to a private company.

    (Although the greens digging up and kidnapping the CEO’s granny’s corpse was inspired)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,804

    I don’t understand your use of the word “even” there.
    Neither do I unless you are on the right of course and Reform appeals
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,408

    Mrs Thatcher would call out such shameful appeasement talk.
    Too busy negotiating with terrorists:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/oct/16/northernireland.thatcher
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335

    What do you mean 'Even Farage'? He is no friend of Ukraine at all and has sided with the Tangerine Toddler on almost everything to do with Ukraine and Russia.

    'Even Farage...' in that context is like saying 'Even HYUFD says nice things about the Tories sometimes'
    Though to be realpolitik about it Farage is probably right, zero chance of Putin agreeing any peace deal without at least taking Crimea
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,226
    carnforth said:

    Too busy negotiating with terrorists:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/oct/16/northernireland.thatcher
    Did Thatcher appease Galtieri?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,121
    HYUFD said:

    Class is in the UK the biggest determinant of whether someone would vote LD or Reform, age is the biggest determinant of whether they would vote Conservative or Labour now
    The biggest class difference for Reform UK is 10% for AB versus 20% for C2, but there is a bigger difference on employment status (6% for students versus 17% for unemployed) and education (8% for high versus 23% for low). It’s the same for the LibDems (biggest difference on employment status with 11% retired versus 19% among students).
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,571
    Let's not forget that St. Paddy is the patron saint of Deltics.

    http://napier-chronicles.co.uk/9001.htm
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,430

    Could be close. I think you should write two responses anticipating either outcome.
    No need. If he loses, he won’t be able to post a response.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,334
    HYUFD said:

    Though to be realpolitik about it Farage is probably right, zero chance of Putin agreeing any peace deal without at least taking Crimea
    Crimea is very Russian though. Ukraine will concede it without question.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,139
    Good grief. For a humble gambling site it doesn't half manage to attract a bunch of narcissists
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,226
    Omnium said:

    Crimea is very Russian though. Ukraine will concede it without question.
    Depends how dodgy the plebiscite is?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,307
    HYUFD said:

    Mrs Thatcher picked wars she could win, she knew she could crush Galtieri's Argentina, she also knew she couldn't defeat the million strong Chinese army so signed the deal confirming the return of Hong Kong to China in 1997
    Although British control over Hong Kong Island was established via treaty in 1842, the control of the New Territories was via a lease signed in 1898 so said lease was always going to expire in 1997.

    It was deemed impractical to maintain a presence on just Hong Kong Island so the whole lot was returned to China - had we tried to retain control of the New Territory, we would have been in breach of international law and treaty.

    That's why Margaret Thatcher's Government agreed the Sino-British Declaration of 1984 which agreed the handover of the whole of Hong Kong but China pledged to "guarantee the economic and political systems" for 50 years after handover.

    We can certainly argue whether China has retained the political aspect but there's no question the economic has been retained.

    You could argue British Governments since 1997 could have been more assertive about China changing the political system in Hong Kong but what practically could we do or have done about it?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,221
    Poor Elon.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1901635479528726969

    My companies make great products that people love and I’ve never physically hurt anyone.

    So why the hate and violence against me?

    Because I am a deadly threat to the woke mind parasite and the humans it controls.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,464
    Roger said:

    Good grief. For a humble gambling site it doesn't half manage to attract a bunch of narcissists

    A bunch?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335

    The biggest class difference for Reform UK is 10% for AB versus 20% for C2, but there is a bigger difference on employment status (6% for students versus 17% for unemployed) and education (8% for high versus 23% for low). It’s the same for the LibDems (biggest difference on employment status with 11% retired versus 19% among students).
    LDs got 16% of 18-24s and 12% of over 65s, Reform got 8% of 18-24s and 14% of over 65s.

    LDs got 17% of ABs and 10% of DEs, Reform got 9% of ABs and 17% of DEs and 25% of C2s

    So I repeat the main difference between the LDs and Reform is class not age based (and education a correlation for class as more young people are graduates than pensioners were)

    https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/how-britain-voted-in-the-2024-election
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,855

    Poor Elon.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1901635479528726969

    My companies make great products that people love and I’ve never physically hurt anyone.

    So why the hate and violence against me?

    Because I am a deadly threat to the woke mind parasite and the humans it controls.

    Has Vladimir Putin ever physically hurt someone?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,231
    Scott_xP said:
    .@angusreidorg shows the Liberals with a 5pt lead.

    LPC 42 (+26 vs December)
    CPC 37 (-8)
    NDP 9 (-12)
    BQ 8 (-3)
    GPC 1 (-2)


    https://x.com/OwenWntr/status/1901719910461686171
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,226

    .@angusreidorg shows the Liberals with a 5pt lead.

    LPC 42 (+26 vs December)
    CPC 37 (-8)
    NDP 9 (-12)
    BQ 8 (-3)
    GPC 1 (-2)


    https://x.com/OwenWntr/status/1901719910461686171
    MAGA Bounce :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335
    stodge said:

    Although British control over Hong Kong Island was established via treaty in 1842, the control of the New Territories was via a lease signed in 1898 so said lease was always going to expire in 1997.

    It was deemed impractical to maintain a presence on just Hong Kong Island so the whole lot was returned to China - had we tried to retain control of the New Territory, we would have been in breach of international law and treaty.

    That's why Margaret Thatcher's Government agreed the Sino-British Declaration of 1984 which agreed the handover of the whole of Hong Kong but China pledged to "guarantee the economic and political systems" for 50 years after handover.

    We can certainly argue whether China has retained the political aspect but there's no question the economic has been retained.

    You could argue British Governments since 1997 could have been more assertive about China changing the political system in Hong Kong but what practically could we do or have done about it?
    Indeed, a British PM knows the British armed forces could beat most nations in the world alone but not China, the US or Russia (who also have nuclear weapons).

    So we avoid direct conflicts with those nations and any war with China could only be done following behind the US armed forces and supporting Ukraine against Russia has to be done with most of the rest of NATO (even absent Trump's US)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335
    edited March 17

    .@angusreidorg shows the Liberals with a 5pt lead.

    LPC 42 (+26 vs December)
    CPC 37 (-8)
    NDP 9 (-12)
    BQ 8 (-3)
    GPC 1 (-2)


    https://x.com/OwenWntr/status/1901719910461686171
    Conservatives on 37% would still be at their highest voteshare since 2011 but Liberals on 42% would be at their highest level since 1993 as NDP and Greens get squeezed
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,121
    rcs1000 said:

    Has Vladimir Putin ever physically hurt someone?
    He’s done a lot of judo, so, sure, he’s physically hurt a lot of people.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,994
    Call a vote or forever stop whining. You have the chance to be rid of me for good, and this result - Leon forever silenced!! - does seem to entice a number of commenters and moderators

    We are PB. We love elections. We can vote on the outcome. Even bet on it. As a non-narcissist I will recuse myself from offering odds, I hate that kind of personal attention



  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,163

    Poor Elon.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1901635479528726969

    My companies make great products that people love and I’ve never physically hurt anyone.

    So why the hate and violence against me?

    Because I am a deadly threat to the woke mind parasite and the humans it controls.

    https://x.com/SusanneM0905/status/1901636863804297334
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,571

    .@angusreidorg shows the Liberals with a 5pt lead.

    LPC 42 (+26 vs December)
    CPC 37 (-8)
    NDP 9 (-12)
    BQ 8 (-3)
    GPC 1 (-2)


    https://x.com/OwenWntr/status/1901719910461686171
    A lot of tactical voting to keep Trump's lickspittles out of power.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,163

    just get on with discussing whatever the fuck you want, as log as its not always about you.

    And he was never heard from again...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335
    HYUFD said:

    LDs got 16% of 18-24s and 12% of over 65s, Reform got 8% of 18-24s and 14% of over 65s.

    LDs got 17% of ABs and 10% of DEs, Reform got 9% of ABs and 17% of DEs and 25% of C2s

    So I repeat the main difference between the LDs and Reform is class not age based (and education a correlation for class as more young people are graduates than pensioners were)

    https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/how-britain-voted-in-the-2024-election
    Apologies education a correlation for age
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,942
    Foxy said:

    A bunch?
    ... a lovely bunch of coconuts
    There they are all standing in a row
    Big ones, small ones, some as big as your head
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335

    A lot of tactical voting to keep Trump's lickspittles out of power.
    To be fair to Polilievre he is NOT Trump's lickspittle, he supports military aid to Ukraine, he is anti Trump's tariffs and he is a Canadian patriot who doesn't want to join the USA.

    Maxime Bernier is closer to Trump than Poilievre who Trump called 'not maga enough'
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,732

    We went through this yesterday. I think I was the only person who voted for you to stay (or even voted at all). Mostly because I dislike people trying to get other posters banned. And even though you can be a real prick sometimes.

    But stop trying to be the centre of attention, accept the fact that most of us think you can be a real prick at times and just get on with discussing whatever the fuck you want, as long as its not always about you.
    I missed this "vote".

    Did it use AV?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,797
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm sure that's right: abortion activists in the US are routinely against providing access to condoms or to sex education, despite the fact that these things are shown to have a very positive impact on pregnancy and abortion rates.

    I'm convinced that the abortion protestors in Scotland are using it as an excuse to berate women getting their contraception sorted, from the experience of one of my former partners.
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