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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If you are betting on cross-over in Q1 2014 then there are

SystemSystem Posts: 11,705
edited March 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If you are betting on cross-over in Q1 2014 then there are only four more YouGovs remaining

Quite a few PBers, I know, have been betting on the PaddyPower market on when there will be a crossover in the five times a week YouGov polls for News International.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    FPT Morris Dancer

    You said I'm wrong! Quite wrong. Seems unlikely. Unfortunately I can't open the attachment and have no idea what I'm wrong about.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Con running out of steam is possible - but Red on Ed infighting seems to be bubbling up and the Red leader seems to be devoid of any ideas other than "make nice stuff cheap".

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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    I'm off to bonnie Scotland tomorrow, I shall do a ridiculously poorly sampled flavour of the Indy feeling whilst there concentrating on waitresses and hotel staff who have to be polite and answer my annoying questions. Plus, I shall sniff the winds from atop a Murroe or two.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Patrick, search Youtube for "Not The Nine O'Clock News Points of View" to see the video (top one).
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited March 2014
    @Morris_Dancer & @SouthamObserver

    FPT - You questioned my 1 seat for Ukip.

    This is a tricky calculation and not based on a clear transfer of national polling. I term it a "Personality Seat". Much like Galloway or Lucas who are able to transcend normal party support for a one off local win.

    Farage falls within this remit. I have had to assume he will stand in a significant Ukip target and then measure in other factors for a win at the margin.
  • Options
    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    With CPI down to 1.7% and private sector employees seeing a 1.7% growth in wages in last weeks ONS figures, cross-over has arrived for the cost of living crisis at least...
  • Options
    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    JackW said:

    @Morris_Dancer & SouthernObserver

    FPT - You questioned my 1 seat for Ukip.

    This is a tricky calculation and not based on a clear transfer of national polling. I term it a "Personality Seat". Much like Galloway or Lucas who are able to transcend normal party support for a one off local win.

    Farage falls within this remit. I have had to assume he will stand in a significant Ukip target and then measure in other factors for a win at the margin.

    Great Yarmouth. There is a significant UKIP presence there. Three way marginal in all likelihood
  • Options
    Swiss_BobSwiss_Bob Posts: 619
    If the odds were worth it I'd bet on a Con majority.

    The economy is improving and Labour look to be imploding.
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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Someone on UKPR seemed to be saying that last night's YouGov was wrongly rounded and, as Labour scored, 38.5, it should have been placed on 39%. Would perhaps support TGOHF's speculation that the Tory bounce is running out of steam, but more polls needed!
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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @TGOHF FPT - sorry, I thought you were a Rangers fan. Apologies if I got that wrong.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Bob, isn't 'imploding' over-egging the cake? If this narrowing reverses and we return to a 6-8pt Labour lead the murmuring will likely fade.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977

    JackW said:

    @Morris_Dancer & SouthernObserver

    FPT - You questioned my 1 seat for Ukip.

    This is a tricky calculation and not based on a clear transfer of national polling. I term it a "Personality Seat". Much like Galloway or Lucas who are able to transcend normal party support for a one off local win.

    Farage falls within this remit. I have had to assume he will stand in a significant Ukip target and then measure in other factors for a win at the margin.

    Great Yarmouth. There is a significant UKIP presence there. Three way marginal in all likelihood

    Somewhere in the east of England looks the best bet. But I find it hard to envisage a UKIP surge occurring in isolation in one seat. I would have thought that if, say, Great Yarmouth is close, seats around it with similar demographics will also see a significant rise in UKIP's vote. When it comes to UKIP recent election results have shown that there is a clear East/West divide.

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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    There is nothing "great" about Great Yarmouth, I visited briefly last yr and from what I saw its a less awful version of Blackpool.(Blackpool seafront is truly ghastly)
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002

    JackW said:

    @Morris_Dancer & SouthernObserver

    FPT - You questioned my 1 seat for Ukip.

    This is a tricky calculation and not based on a clear transfer of national polling. I term it a "Personality Seat". Much like Galloway or Lucas who are able to transcend normal party support for a one off local win.

    Farage falls within this remit. I have had to assume he will stand in a significant Ukip target and then measure in other factors for a win at the margin.

    Great Yarmouth. There is a significant UKIP presence there. Three way marginal in all likelihood
    Thurrock 16/1. A crazy price

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,075
    Inflation falls to 1.7%.

    Cost of Labour crisis continues...
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    JonathanD said:

    With CPI down to 1.7% and private sector employees seeing a 1.7% growth in wages in last weeks ONS figures, cross-over has arrived for the cost of living crisis at least...

    Yep... interesting stuff.
  • Options
    I'm not persuaded there need be a crossover. I don't think there was a crossover in 1992, was there? The recollection I have is that Major was behind until the eve of the actual vote. Labour's hilarious Sheffield rally, splendidly mocked on QT by Michael Heseltine as "all these prosperous socialists helicoptering in", happened exactly because they thought they had it in the bag.

    It must go with being of the left to be a bit delusional, lacking in judgment, and unconcerned about giving hostages to fortune. As well as the wonderful Sheffield rally, Labour also has Sion Simon's unforgettable "fretful mazurka" moment. And there is David Steel's epic "Prepare for government" moment.

    I can't recall any episodes of comparably farcical Tory hubris. Perhaps it is something that being naturally pragmatic tends to save you from?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    According to UKPR, with the last twenty opinion polls the Labour lead has been more than 5% in two.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    @Morris_Dancer & SouthernObserver

    FPT - You questioned my 1 seat for Ukip.

    This is a tricky calculation and not based on a clear transfer of national polling. I term it a "Personality Seat". Much like Galloway or Lucas who are able to transcend normal party support for a one off local win.

    Farage falls within this remit. I have had to assume he will stand in a significant Ukip target and then measure in other factors for a win at the margin.

    Great Yarmouth. There is a significant UKIP presence there. Three way marginal in all likelihood
    Outside of the "JackW Thirteen" I'll not be naming or calling seats.

    However for Farage I modelled 3 seats that came out 1 win 1 loss and 1 too close to call. Finally I tipped a seat to Farage by a tight margin based on the balance of probability of the three.

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    edited March 2014

    I'm not persuaded there need be a crossover. I don't think there was a crossover in 1992, was there? The recollection I have is that Major was behind until the eve of the actual vote. Labour's hilarious Sheffield rally, splendidly mocked on QT by Michael Heseltine as "all these prosperous socialists helicoptering in", happened exactly because they thought they had it in the bag.

    It must go with being of the left to be a bit delusional, lacking in judgment, and unconcerned about giving hostages to fortune. As well as the wonderful Sheffield rally, Labour also has Sion Simon's unforgettable "fretful mazurka" moment. And there is David Steel's epic "Prepare for government" moment.

    I can't recall any episodes of comparably farcical Tory hubris. Perhaps it is something that being naturally pragmatic tends to save you from?

    Agreed - it's merely more evidence that Tories are just *better* than lefties.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    BobaFett said:

    @TGOHF FPT - sorry, I thought you were a Rangers fan. Apologies if I got that wrong.

    I am - and Scotland ;)

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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Swiss_Bob said:

    If the odds were worth it I'd bet on a Con majority.

    The economy is improving and Labour look to be imploding.

    You can already pick up 4/1 on that outcome at times. How long do you need to back what you suggest is a likely winner?

    Or it could be sheer bluster. Hmm.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    AndrewSparrow ‏@AndrewSparrow · 26 mins
    Latest @YouGov polling figures show government approval at highest level since December 2010 - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/25/harriet-harman-says-labour-making-steady-progress-politics-live-blog#block-53314534e4b0356d17584413

    That is really quite amazing given the stuff which has been thrown at this government

    Labour and the 'left' are running the risk of having blown their wad too soon, they have nothing left in the tank to throw at the government.
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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    AndrewSparrow ‏@AndrewSparrow · 26 mins
    Latest @YouGov polling figures show government approval at highest level since December 2010 - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/25/harriet-harman-says-labour-making-steady-progress-politics-live-blog#block-53314534e4b0356d17584413

    That is really quite amazing given the stuff which has been thrown at this government

    Labour and the 'left' are running the risk of having blown their wad too soon, they have nothing left in the tank to throw at the government.

    Dangerously complacent. Labour will reveal a whole suite of policies, but not yet.
  • Options

    I'm not persuaded there need be a crossover. I don't think there was a crossover in 1992, was there? The recollection I have is that Major was behind until the eve of the actual vote. Labour's hilarious Sheffield rally, splendidly mocked on QT by Michael Heseltine as "all these prosperous socialists helicoptering in", happened exactly because they thought they had it in the bag.

    It must go with being of the left to be a bit delusional, lacking in judgment, and unconcerned about giving hostages to fortune. As well as the wonderful Sheffield rally, Labour also has Sion Simon's unforgettable "fretful mazurka" moment. And there is David Steel's epic "Prepare for government" moment.

    I can't recall any episodes of comparably farcical Tory hubris. Perhaps it is something that being naturally pragmatic tends to save you from?

    Grant Shapps

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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    @TGOHF FPT - sorry, I thought you were a Rangers fan. Apologies if I got that wrong.

    I am - and Scotland ;)

    Fair enough!
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    compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited March 2014

    Mr. Bob, isn't 'imploding' over-egging the cake? If this narrowing reverses and we return to a 6-8pt Labour lead the murmuring will likely fade.

    Politics is a fickle business.If the bounce does fade, which it has done a number of times over the parliament, the murmering will come from the other side again. We have gone a full 48 hours without any serious Blue on Blue incoming....quite impressive really.
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    BobaFett said:

    AndrewSparrow ‏@AndrewSparrow · 26 mins
    Latest @YouGov polling figures show government approval at highest level since December 2010 - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/25/harriet-harman-says-labour-making-steady-progress-politics-live-blog#block-53314534e4b0356d17584413

    That is really quite amazing given the stuff which has been thrown at this government

    Labour and the 'left' are running the risk of having blown their wad too soon, they have nothing left in the tank to throw at the government.

    Dangerously complacent. Labour will reveal a whole suite of policies, but not yet.
    Is the real risk for Labour not that it will fail to reveal any policies but that it will succeed?
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    Swiss_Bob said:

    If the odds were worth it I'd bet on a Con majority.

    The economy is improving and Labour look to be imploding.

    Lol. The odds on offer are pretty good, so if you think there will be a Con majority clearly you should bet the house. What's stopping you?

    But welcome to the site anyway!

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    I'm not persuaded there need be a crossover. I don't think there was a crossover in 1992, was there? The recollection I have is that Major was behind until the eve of the actual vote. Labour's hilarious Sheffield rally, splendidly mocked on QT by Michael Heseltine as "all these prosperous socialists helicoptering in", happened exactly because they thought they had it in the bag.

    It must go with being of the left to be a bit delusional, lacking in judgment, and unconcerned about giving hostages to fortune. As well as the wonderful Sheffield rally, Labour also has Sion Simon's unforgettable "fretful mazurka" moment. And there is David Steel's epic "Prepare for government" moment.

    I can't recall any episodes of comparably farcical Tory hubris. Perhaps it is something that being naturally pragmatic tends to save you from?

    The 1997 GE provides plenty of scope for examples of Conservative hubris, although gallows humour might be more appropriate for some. In particular Heseltine's famous (almost certainly tongue in cheek) post exit poll calculation of Conservative gains and a majority of 70 plus.

    I also think we should allow politicians some latitude as it's hardly fun to stare defeat in the face without wishing to give your supporters something to cheer over. A good example is the Sheffield rally. Kinnock has said he knew by the Sunday before the election that he'd lost but he was hardly going to admit it and likely lose by an even greater margin.

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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    Swiss_Bob said:

    If the odds were worth it I'd bet on a Con majority.

    The economy is improving and Labour look to be imploding.

    Lol. The odds on offer are pretty good, so if you think there will be a Con majority clearly you should bet the house. What's stopping you?

    But welcome to the site anyway!

    Ha! Indeed. Perhaps our man needs 10-1 to back a racing certainty.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002

    Swiss_Bob said:

    If the odds were worth it I'd bet on a Con majority.

    The economy is improving and Labour look to be imploding.

    Lol. The odds on offer are pretty good, so if you think there will be a Con majority clearly you should bet the house. What's stopping you?

    But welcome to the site anyway!

    If someone thinks there is a decent bet, they should bet EVERYTHING they've got on it?

    Interesting mindset

    "No more boom & bust"
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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    I'm not persuaded there need be a crossover. I don't think there was a crossover in 1992, was there? The recollection I have is that Major was behind until the eve of the actual vote. Labour's hilarious Sheffield rally, splendidly mocked on QT by Michael Heseltine as "all these prosperous socialists helicoptering in", happened exactly because they thought they had it in the bag.

    It must go with being of the left to be a bit delusional, lacking in judgment, and unconcerned about giving hostages to fortune. As well as the wonderful Sheffield rally, Labour also has Sion Simon's unforgettable "fretful mazurka" moment. And there is David Steel's epic "Prepare for government" moment.

    I can't recall any episodes of comparably farcical Tory hubris. Perhaps it is something that being naturally pragmatic tends to save you from?

    Grant Shapps

    Leeds pasty (a large one)
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977

    Mr. Bob, isn't 'imploding' over-egging the cake? If this narrowing reverses and we return to a 6-8pt Labour lead the murmuring will likely fade.

    Politics is a fickle business.If the bounce does fade, which it has done a number of times over the parliament, the murmering will come from the other side again. We have gone a full 48 hours without any serious Blue on Blue incoming....quite impressive really.

    For me, what the bounce shows is that the Tories are very likely to get at least 35% of the vote next year.

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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2014
    Morale must be bad within Labour if poor old Harriet has to be wheeled out. Whilst she's not the sharpest knife in the Labour drawer, you can't but admire her indefatigability; she even managed to sound reasonably sincere in the pre-election days when she was defending Brown. Now she's having to do the same for Ed.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/03/harriet-harman-labour-is-making-steady-progress/
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    JackW said:

    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the contents of the latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection :

    Con 308 .. Lab 270 .. LibDem 40 .. SNP 9 .. PC 2 .. NI 18 .. Ukip 1 .. Respect 0 .. Green 1 .. Ind 0 .. Speaker 1

    Conservatives 18 seats short of a majority.

    Note - Highest Conservative seat total in the 2015 GE projections.

    .................................................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors

    Ladbrokes are offering 5/2 for 40 Lib Dem seats Jack. Money for old rope. Have you remortgaged your semi?
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    BobaFett said:

    Swiss_Bob said:

    If the odds were worth it I'd bet on a Con majority.

    The economy is improving and Labour look to be imploding.

    Lol. The odds on offer are pretty good, so if you think there will be a Con majority clearly you should bet the house. What's stopping you?

    But welcome to the site anyway!

    Ha! Indeed. Perhaps our man needs 10-1 to back a racing certainty.
    Where did he say "racing certainty" or anything of the sort?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,002

    JackW said:

    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the contents of the latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection :

    Con 308 .. Lab 270 .. LibDem 40 .. SNP 9 .. PC 2 .. NI 18 .. Ukip 1 .. Respect 0 .. Green 1 .. Ind 0 .. Speaker 1

    Conservatives 18 seats short of a majority.

    Note - Highest Conservative seat total in the 2015 GE projections.

    .................................................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors

    Ladbrokes are offering 5/2 for 40 Lib Dem seats Jack. Money for old rope. Have you remortgaged your semi?
    Says a man who wont back an 11/2 shot he makes odds on because he's building an extension on his house
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Swiss_Bob said:

    If the odds were worth it I'd bet on a Con majority.

    The economy is improving and Labour look to be imploding.

    Lol. The odds on offer are pretty good, so if you think there will be a Con majority clearly you should bet the house. What's stopping you?

    But welcome to the site anyway!

    Nick, while we're chatting on expectations what was your appreciation of your 2010 campaign. Did you think you might edge the win, lose, or that it was all in the balance from the start of the official campaign or perhaps a mixture of all three at times ?

  • Options
    Con 308 .. Lab 270 .. LibDem 40 .. SNP 9 .. PC 2 .. NI 18 .. Ukip 1 .. Respect 0 .. Green 1 .. Ind 0 .. Speaker 1 (Jack W's prediction)

    Very interesting arithmetic. Suppose Cameron offers to renew the coalition, and Clegg declines. (After all, the LD's have now got a record in government and Cameron would surely pay a higher price later in the Parliament.)

    Labour now propose to introduce a Bill abolishing the "Five Year Act" (because they suspect Cameron will anyway if they don't). Should Cameron take it over? Should Clegg oppose it?

  • Options
    compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    Mr. Bob, isn't 'imploding' over-egging the cake? If this narrowing reverses and we return to a 6-8pt Labour lead the murmuring will likely fade.

    Politics is a fickle business.If the bounce does fade, which it has done a number of times over the parliament, the murmering will come from the other side again. We have gone a full 48 hours without any serious Blue on Blue incoming....quite impressive really.

    For me, what the bounce shows is that the Tories are very likely to get at least 35% of the vote next year.

    That would really depend on wether the UKIP support either melts away or jumps back to the Tory Party. Cameron to Kippers read fart and lift.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the contents of the latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection :

    Con 308 .. Lab 270 .. LibDem 40 .. SNP 9 .. PC 2 .. NI 18 .. Ukip 1 .. Respect 0 .. Green 1 .. Ind 0 .. Speaker 1

    Conservatives 18 seats short of a majority.

    Note - Highest Conservative seat total in the 2015 GE projections.

    .................................................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors

    Ladbrokes are offering 5/2 for 40 Lib Dem seats Jack. Money for old rope. Have you remortgaged your semi?
    My only non detached house is a mid terraced in central London.

    The LibDem seat total is more difficult to calculate. I'm more likely to wager on individual seats than the total as in 2010.

    Overall if 05 or 10 are any guide my total liabilities will run into high five figures. Compared to my sports betting it remains on the low side mainly because of restricted opportunities and poor liquidity.

  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    BobaFett said:

    AndrewSparrow ‏@AndrewSparrow · 26 mins
    Latest @YouGov polling figures show government approval at highest level since December 2010 - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/25/harriet-harman-says-labour-making-steady-progress-politics-live-blog#block-53314534e4b0356d17584413

    That is really quite amazing given the stuff which has been thrown at this government

    Labour and the 'left' are running the risk of having blown their wad too soon, they have nothing left in the tank to throw at the government.

    Dangerously complacent. Labour will reveal a whole suite of policies, but not yet.
    I admire your optimism - suspect these amazing new policies won't be at the HQ of the Coop bank though. Or Waitrose.


  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Con 308 .. Lab 270 .. LibDem 40 .. SNP 9 .. PC 2 .. NI 18 .. Ukip 1 .. Respect 0 .. Green 1 .. Ind 0 .. Speaker 1 (Jack W's prediction)

    Very interesting arithmetic. Suppose Cameron offers to renew the coalition, and Clegg declines. (After all, the LD's have now got a record in government and Cameron would surely pay a higher price later in the Parliament.)

    Labour now propose to introduce a Bill abolishing the "Five Year Act" (because they suspect Cameron will anyway if they don't). Should Cameron take it over? Should Clegg oppose it?

    I think fixed term parliaments are here to stay. Labour opposed 5 years for the 4 year option and those seat numbers indicate a defeat for repeal.

  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T:

    It seems the new Scarlet Johannson movie Under The Skin is a real marmite film. People either think it's one of the best films of the 21st century so far or they think it's absolutely dreadful:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1441395/reviews?start=0

    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/under_the_skin_2013/
  • Options
    JackW said:

    The 1997 GE provides plenty of scope for examples of Conservative hubris, although gallows humour might be more appropriate for some. In particular Heseltine's famous (almost certainly tongue in cheek) post exit poll calculation of Conservative gains and a majority of 70 plus.

    I also think we should allow politicians some latitude as it's hardly fun to stare defeat in the face without wishing to give your supporters something to cheer over. A good example is the Sheffield rally. Kinnock has said he knew by the Sunday before the election that he'd lost but he was hardly going to admit it and likely lose by an even greater margin.

    Agree re Heseltine in 1997 - he cannot possibly have believed that.

    I'm aware Kinnock has claimed ex post that he knew he was going to lose, but I simply don't believe him. He was loving it at the Sheffield rally, and giving not the slightest inkling of knowing what was about to happen. If he had had an idea, a thoughtful leader would have completely repositioned the victory rally to send a different message. Rather than applauding themselves for having it in the bag, he could have made it a gathering to talk about the serious challenges afoot - how to rejoin the ERM; how to prolong the housing slump; which protections to reintroduce; how soon to surrender the Falklands; and whether to tax middle income earners at 50% or 80% to fund the clients and the payroll vote.

    Instead he whooped, punched the air, screeched "Awright!!" and wheeled ghastly mediocrities like Harman onstage announced as "the Minister for..."

    On balance Kinnock, while abjectly mediocre, was in some ways the better man than Miliband. Kinnock made his millions in the public sector for himself, paying for all his houses from all his salaries rather than inheriting them. Unlike Miliband he didn't rely on family connections to get in and to get ahead, and unlike Miliband he changed his image, wearing Armani suits and eating in expensive restaurants against his natural instincts because he knew looking proley wasn't working.

    Miliband strikes me as another Kinnock, but without the latter's pithiness, intellect, or gravitas.
  • Options
    JackW said:

    Con 308 .. Lab 270 .. LibDem 40 .. SNP 9 .. PC 2 .. NI 18 .. Ukip 1 .. Respect 0 .. Green 1 .. Ind 0 .. Speaker 1 (Jack W's prediction)

    Very interesting arithmetic. Suppose Cameron offers to renew the coalition, and Clegg declines. (After all, the LD's have now got a record in government and Cameron would surely pay a higher price later in the Parliament.)

    Labour now propose to introduce a Bill abolishing the "Five Year Act" (because they suspect Cameron will anyway if they don't). Should Cameron take it over? Should Clegg oppose it?

    I think fixed term parliaments are here to stay. Labour opposed 5 years for the 4 year option and those seat numbers indicate a defeat for repeal.

    Hmm. Were they in any manifesto last time? Do you expect them to be next time? People may well prefer them - until they elect a Parliament in which the Government is chopping and changing in a "République quatrieme" manner (sorry I can't remember the code for the "grave" accent).

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    FPT - @OblitusSumMe wrote :

    Greatly appreciate your fine arse JackW, but my best guess would be to reverse the Con and Lab seat totals.

    ............................................................

    Thank you.

    The latest forecast includes over 25 seats that are TCTC - Too Close To Call - below 500 votes with a majority tipping into the blue column this time.

    Plenty of squeaky bums in May 2015 .... including the illustrious botty of one Nicholas Palmer.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited March 2014
    Next Monday 7.30pm Ch4

    Nigel Farage: Who Are You?

    "Filmed over six months, controversial filmmaker Martin Durkin meets controversial UKIP leader and political whirlwind Nigel Farage, in the run-up to the European elections, at which some commentators predict Farage will lead UKIP to victory. They also believe he may stop the Conservatives from winning the general election.

    A few years ago, no one had heard of Nigel Farage; now he's a major force in British politics. But who is Nigel Farage? Durkin finds out on a journey full of incident: drink in hand, Nigel guides viewers through his favourite watering holes in the City, and he sneaks the film crew into the Euro Parliament, only to be swiftly ejected.

    From battling with protestors to keeping UKIP MEPs in line, Durkin gets to know the man who is turning British politics upside down."

    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/nigel-farage-who-are-you
  • Options
    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    isam said:

    JackW said:

    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the contents of the latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection :

    Con 308 .. Lab 270 .. LibDem 40 .. SNP 9 .. PC 2 .. NI 18 .. Ukip 1 .. Respect 0 .. Green 1 .. Ind 0 .. Speaker 1

    Conservatives 18 seats short of a majority.

    Note - Highest Conservative seat total in the 2015 GE projections.

    .................................................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors

    Ladbrokes are offering 5/2 for 40 Lib Dem seats Jack. Money for old rope. Have you remortgaged your semi?
    Says a man who wont back an 11/2 shot he makes odds on because he's building an extension on his house
    - "he makes odds on" Huh? Whit are ye whiterin on aboot?

    a) what is this "11/2 shot" you speak of?
    b) I fear that you are labouring under the misapprehension that I am a bookmaker. I am not. You would be best to consult with Shadsy and his ilk.
  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Inflation at 4 year low - BBC.

    You have to wonder how relevant Ed's cost of living crisis stuff will look this time next year.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    JonathanD said:

    With CPI down to 1.7% and private sector employees seeing a 1.7% growth in wages in last weeks ONS figures, cross-over has arrived for the cost of living crisis at least...

    Yep... interesting stuff.

    The question is how much higher wage growth can go. Last weeks ONS figures showed pay rising 3.2% in manufacturing, 3% in construction and 3.7% in retail but how much will the national average figure be dragged down by the 1% cap on public sector pay. If inflation starts ticking up again, it will be very difficult to get a level of real wage growth that will make anyone feel better off.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    The 1997 GE provides plenty of scope for examples of Conservative hubris, although gallows humour might be more appropriate for some. In particular Heseltine's famous (almost certainly tongue in cheek) post exit poll calculation of Conservative gains and a majority of 70 plus.

    I also think we should allow politicians some latitude as it's hardly fun to stare defeat in the face without wishing to give your supporters something to cheer over. A good example is the Sheffield rally. Kinnock has said he knew by the Sunday before the election that he'd lost but he was hardly going to admit it and likely lose by an even greater margin.

    Agree re Heseltine in 1997 - he cannot possibly have believed that.

    I'm aware Kinnock has claimed ex post that he knew he was going to lose, but I simply don't believe him. He was loving it at the Sheffield rally, and giving not the slightest inkling of knowing what was about to happen. If he had had an idea, a thoughtful leader would have completely repositioned the victory rally to send a different message. Rather than applauding themselves for having it in the bag, he could have made it a gathering to talk about the serious challenges afoot - how to rejoin the ERM; how to prolong the housing slump; which protections to reintroduce; how soon to surrender the Falklands; and whether to tax middle income earners at 50% or 80% to fund the clients and the payroll vote.

    Instead he whooped, punched the air, screeched "Awright!!" and wheeled ghastly mediocrities like Harman onstage announced as "the Minister for..."

    On balance Kinnock, while abjectly mediocre, was in some ways the better man than Miliband. Kinnock made his millions in the public sector for himself, paying for all his houses from all his salaries rather than inheriting them. Unlike Miliband he didn't rely on family connections to get in and to get ahead, and unlike Miliband he changed his image, wearing Armani suits and eating in expensive restaurants against his natural instincts because he knew looking proley wasn't working.

    Miliband strikes me as another Kinnock, but without the latter's pithiness, intellect, or gravitas.
    I think it was much more simple.

    Kinnock simply misjudged the mood that seemed in the hall to be a powerful and joyous endorsement but to many viewing on the box appeared way OTT.

    IIRC Kinnock said he realized at the back of the campaign that events were moving against him when many of the voters wouldn't meet his eyes, more in sorrow than disdain, whereas earlier in the campaign he was welcomed more warmly.



  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977

    Mr. Bob, isn't 'imploding' over-egging the cake? If this narrowing reverses and we return to a 6-8pt Labour lead the murmuring will likely fade.

    Politics is a fickle business.If the bounce does fade, which it has done a number of times over the parliament, the murmering will come from the other side again. We have gone a full 48 hours without any serious Blue on Blue incoming....quite impressive really.

    For me, what the bounce shows is that the Tories are very likely to get at least 35% of the vote next year.

    That would really depend on wether the UKIP support either melts away or jumps back to the Tory Party. Cameron to Kippers read fart and lift.

    There's likely to be a frothy element to the UKIP vote which probably will head back to the Tories - the post-budget polls have pretty clearly indicated this. The issue is how much more there is left for the Tories to milk. The election deciders will be the stickiness of the UKIP vote and the level of swing-back from Labour to the LDs. My sense is that once the Euros are out of the way UKIP will softly deflate, but will get a 5%-10% GE vote share. But I also think that in places where it counts - Tory and LD marginal where Labour is second - Labour is going to hold on to most current 2010 LD switchers. It's going to be very close. In order of probability, I'd go for:
    1. Labour most seats in a hung Parliament
    Very close 2. Tories most seats in a hung Parliament
    Distant 3. Labour overall majority
    Very distant 4. Tory overall majority

    A year ago I'd have had the Labour majority in second place, but it's very hard to see that happening now. Though not as hard as it is to see a Tory majority.

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited March 2014

    JackW said:

    Con 308 .. Lab 270 .. LibDem 40 .. SNP 9 .. PC 2 .. NI 18 .. Ukip 1 .. Respect 0 .. Green 1 .. Ind 0 .. Speaker 1 (Jack W's prediction)

    Very interesting arithmetic. Suppose Cameron offers to renew the coalition, and Clegg declines. (After all, the LD's have now got a record in government and Cameron would surely pay a higher price later in the Parliament.)

    Labour now propose to introduce a Bill abolishing the "Five Year Act" (because they suspect Cameron will anyway if they don't). Should Cameron take it over? Should Clegg oppose it?

    I think fixed term parliaments are here to stay. Labour opposed 5 years for the 4 year option and those seat numbers indicate a defeat for repeal.

    Hmm. Were they in any manifesto last time? Do you expect them to be next time? People may well prefer them - until they elect a Parliament in which the Government is chopping and changing in a "République quatrieme" manner (sorry I can't remember the code for the "grave" accent).

    Unless any party endorses repeal I don't expect fixed terms to feature. It appears a done deal unless Labour return to their more favoured four year option and to date I'm unaware there's any move to resurrect that policy.

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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited March 2014

    isam said:

    JackW said:

    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the contents of the latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection :

    Con 308 .. Lab 270 .. LibDem 40 .. SNP 9 .. PC 2 .. NI 18 .. Ukip 1 .. Respect 0 .. Green 1 .. Ind 0 .. Speaker 1

    Conservatives 18 seats short of a majority.

    Note - Highest Conservative seat total in the 2015 GE projections.

    .................................................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors

    Ladbrokes are offering 5/2 for 40 Lib Dem seats Jack. Money for old rope. Have you remortgaged your semi?
    Says a man who wont back an 11/2 shot he makes odds on because he's building an extension on his house
    - "he makes odds on" Huh? Whit are ye whiterin on aboot?

    a) what is this "11/2 shot" you speak of?
    b) I fear that you are labouring under the misapprehension that I am a bookmaker. I am not. You would be best to consult with Shadsy and his ilk.
    Do you know what? When I wrote that, I realised it seemed provocative, and I have no reason to get into an argument with you. Sarcasm can be misinterpreted as anger on forums, or anywhere that isnt face to face

    The 11/2 shot was Ladbrokes price in early March on Scotland becoming an independent country

    I thought you were of the opinion that Yes was more likely than No in the indy ref (odds on)

    When I said you should be lumping on you said you were paying for an extension on the house or something, so couldn't. When you advised JackW to remortage over a more marginal call I thought Id mention it
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    compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited March 2014
    JackW said:

    FPT - @OblitusSumMe wrote :

    Greatly appreciate your fine arse JackW, but my best guess would be to reverse the Con and Lab seat totals.

    ............................................................

    Thank you.

    The latest forecast includes over 25 seats that are TCTC - Too Close To Call - below 500 votes with a majority tipping into the blue column this time.

    Plenty of squeaky bums in May 2015 .... including the illustrious botty of one Nicholas Palmer.

    It's all arses, botty and bums with you, is there something you want to tell us ;-)
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    @SeanT - People who think Camden Town is a dump haven't spent that much time there; neither can they have seen it when it really was a dump. The change over the last 20 years has been phenomenal.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited March 2014
    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    AndrewSparrow ‏@AndrewSparrow · 26 mins
    Latest @YouGov polling figures show government approval at highest level since December 2010 - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/25/harriet-harman-says-labour-making-steady-progress-politics-live-blog#block-53314534e4b0356d17584413

    That is really quite amazing given the stuff which has been thrown at this government

    Labour and the 'left' are running the risk of having blown their wad too soon, they have nothing left in the tank to throw at the government.

    Dangerously complacent. Labour will reveal a whole suite of policies, but not yet.
    I admire your optimism - suspect these amazing new policies won't be at the HQ of the Coop bank though. Or Waitrose.


    Watch out for '"People's Directors" on the board of every Utility company and probably others too, tied in with some re-nationalisations.
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    isam said:

    isam said:

    JackW said:

    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the contents of the latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection :

    Con 308 .. Lab 270 .. LibDem 40 .. SNP 9 .. PC 2 .. NI 18 .. Ukip 1 .. Respect 0 .. Green 1 .. Ind 0 .. Speaker 1

    Conservatives 18 seats short of a majority.

    Note - Highest Conservative seat total in the 2015 GE projections.

    .................................................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors

    Ladbrokes are offering 5/2 for 40 Lib Dem seats Jack. Money for old rope. Have you remortgaged your semi?
    Says a man who wont back an 11/2 shot he makes odds on because he's building an extension on his house
    - "he makes odds on" Huh? Whit are ye whiterin on aboot?

    a) what is this "11/2 shot" you speak of?
    b) I fear that you are labouring under the misapprehension that I am a bookmaker. I am not. You would be best to consult with Shadsy and his ilk.
    I thought you were of the opinion that Yes was more likely than No in the indy ref (odds on)
    At no point has that ever been my opinion. As I have repeatedly stated, very explicitly, I have no idea if Yes or No is going to win in September.

    I have backed Yes at ridiculously long odds at Betfair in the past (nearly 7 IIRCC), not because I believe that Yes will win (I don't), but simply because it was preposterously good value.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Mr Hannan:
    "How long, I asked playfully, before the Corporation started calling Vladimir Putin, a former KGB man who rails against Ukrainian nationalism, “Right-wing”? A BBC radio producer Tweeted back crossly that it was a perfectly fair way to describe him"

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100264819/the-bbc-will-in-effect-be-privatised-with-vast-consequences/

    :-)
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    @SeanT - People who think Camden Town is a dump haven't spent that much time there; neither can they have seen it when it really was a dump. The change over the last 20 years has been phenomenal.

    I go through it weekly - Sean is right north of the tube station. The High Street, however, is a disgrace. I now actually expect to be pestered by someone begging for drink when I change buses there, typically at a quarter past nine in the morning.

    I suppose pound shops have to go somewhere but surely we don't need betting shops any more? There's this thing called the Internet...
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002

    isam said:

    isam said:

    JackW said:

    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the contents of the latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection :

    Con 308 .. Lab 270 .. LibDem 40 .. SNP 9 .. PC 2 .. NI 18 .. Ukip 1 .. Respect 0 .. Green 1 .. Ind 0 .. Speaker 1

    Conservatives 18 seats short of a majority.

    Note - Highest Conservative seat total in the 2015 GE projections.

    .................................................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors

    Ladbrokes are offering 5/2 for 40 Lib Dem seats Jack. Money for old rope. Have you remortgaged your semi?
    Says a man who wont back an 11/2 shot he makes odds on because he's building an extension on his house
    - "he makes odds on" Huh? Whit are ye whiterin on aboot?

    a) what is this "11/2 shot" you speak of?
    b) I fear that you are labouring under the misapprehension that I am a bookmaker. I am not. You would be best to consult with Shadsy and his ilk.
    I thought you were of the opinion that Yes was more likely than No in the indy ref (odds on)
    At no point has that ever been my opinion. As I have repeatedly stated, very explicitly, I have no idea if Yes or No is going to win in September.

    I have backed Yes at ridiculously long odds at Betfair in the past (nearly 7 IIRCC), not because I believe that Yes will win (I don't), but simply because it was preposterously good value.
    I know what value means, I thought it was you that said they expected Yes to win.

    Must have been @theuniondivvie or @malcolmg
  • Options

    Mr Hannan:
    "How long, I asked playfully, before the Corporation started calling Vladimir Putin, a former KGB man who rails against Ukrainian nationalism, “Right-wing”? A BBC radio producer Tweeted back crossly that it was a perfectly fair way to describe him"

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100264819/the-bbc-will-in-effect-be-privatised-with-vast-consequences/

    :-)

    Yup. Anyone who doesn't think Putin's a socialist is stupid. vicious or (most likely) both, eh, anotherDave?

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    FPT - @OblitusSumMe wrote :

    Greatly appreciate your fine arse JackW, but my best guess would be to reverse the Con and Lab seat totals.

    ............................................................

    Thank you.

    The latest forecast includes over 25 seats that are TCTC - Too Close To Call - below 500 votes with a majority tipping into the blue column this time.

    Plenty of squeaky bums in May 2015 .... including the illustrious botty of one Nicholas Palmer.

    It's all arses, botty and bums with you, is there something you want to tell us ;-)
    Yes ....

    Ed Miliband Will Never Be Prime Minister ....

    As long as he's got a crack up his [ ....... ] Append Suitable Bottom Term

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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Ok, crystallising the renewed, refreshed and revigorated Dyed predictions for 2015 at this stage

    Scottish Tories to take
    Mundells seat
    Berwick, Roxborough etc
    Cover Dumfries and Galloway at 4s or better

    If the referendum is a NO
    Tories to take Banff and Buchan
    Tory value in Argyll and Bute at current values

    If the referendum is a YES
    Cover SNP to take Fife NE
    Worth a peek at SNP and Tory on a NO as Swing with no Ming and General Lib Dem meltdown north of the border

    NO Tories in Edinburgh
    Definitely No Tories in Renfrewshire
    Absolutely No Tories in the upper highlands, Aberdeenshire West and Kinkypants is a non starter

    Tory Scottish seats - 3 to 4

    SNP seat - if YES, 12 plus, if NO 9 minus

    England
    Tories to take Berwick Upon Tweed with a large majority
    Labour to regain Norwich North on a Kipper/Chloe split vote
    UKIP to take Great Yarmouth in a tight three way with Con and Lab
    Labour to take Redcar on a huge majority
    Lib Dem regain Montgomery on a recount!!
    Tory take Brecon and Radnor
    Lib Dem wipe out in Cornwall
    Labour regain Norwich South on a large majority

    That'll do for now
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    compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited March 2014
    I only mentioned about half an hour ago about the the lack of it, however, it seemed I missed the following:

    BLUE ON BLUE INCOMING:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26728774

    "Mr Field said the immigration cap of “tens of thousands a year” pledged by David Cameron was “undeliverable” and kept out talented academics and entrepreneurs from outside the EU.......“In such a febrile atmosphere it has become almost impossible to have the rational debate we need. The relentless focus on immigration by the Conservative party seems to the outsider to border on near-obsession.”

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cb179a1c-b279-11e3-8038-00144feabdc0.html
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002

    @SeanT - People who think Camden Town is a dump haven't spent that much time there; neither can they have seen it when it really was a dump. The change over the last 20 years has been phenomenal.

    The road next to Sainsburys, opposite the Stables Market, toward the Chalk Farm end is where crack dealers openly sell their product.

    I lived in College Lane, Kentish Town for a couple of years with a mate who was an alcoholic crack smoker, and that's where he bought his Cilla from
  • Options
    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited March 2014

    @SeanT - People who think Camden Town is a dump haven't spent that much time there; neither can they have seen it when it really was a dump. The change over the last 20 years has been phenomenal.

    I go through it weekly - Sean is right north of the tube station. The High Street, however, is a disgrace. I now actually expect to be pestered by someone begging for drink when I change buses there, typically at a quarter past nine in the morning.

    I suppose pound shops have to go somewhere but surely we don't need betting shops any more? There's this thing called the Internet...
    Camden is where those who aspire to reside in Primrose Hill or Regents Park, but cannot afford to, live. The bits around Gloucester Crescent are OK, but as for the rest of it. Nein Danke.

    I've worked there off and on since the late Eighties. It was grottier, but felt much safer then. I'd walk through Somers Town late at night, and not see a soul.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977

    @SeanT - People who think Camden Town is a dump haven't spent that much time there; neither can they have seen it when it really was a dump. The change over the last 20 years has been phenomenal.

    I go through it weekly - Sean is right north of the tube station. The High Street, however, is a disgrace. I now actually expect to be pestered by someone begging for drink when I change buses there, typically at a quarter past nine in the morning.

    I suppose pound shops have to go somewhere but surely we don't need betting shops any more? There's this thing called the Internet...

    I remember the old tube station with the meths and turps drinkers slumped against the phone kiosks, and the drugs dealers outside, and all the old tramps wandering around waiting for Arlington House to open up. Camden Lock was Dingwalls, some stalls and a few dead dogs bobbing in the canal water. It really wasn't a very nice part of the world. It's not Hampstead now, but the improvements have been remarkable.

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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    JackW said:

    Swiss_Bob said:

    If the odds were worth it I'd bet on a Con majority.

    The economy is improving and Labour look to be imploding.

    Lol. The odds on offer are pretty good, so if you think there will be a Con majority clearly you should bet the house. What's stopping you?

    But welcome to the site anyway!

    Nick, while we're chatting on expectations what was your appreciation of your 2010 campaign. Did you think you might edge the win, lose, or that it was all in the balance from the start of the official campaign or perhaps a mixture of all three at times ?

    I thought from about 2008 onwards that I was likely to lose, probably by about 4,000, but it wasn't completely hopeless. My main objective was to force the Tories to fight hard for it, diverting resources from elsewhere, and hope that something would turn up to give us a shot as well. What we did was fight the campaign at an intensely personal level - hence the Tories for Palmer, Independents for Palmer, etc. Canvass returns did show an awful lot of people tempted to vote for me who weren't sold on Labour, so that seemed to be the best chance. All the same, I was pleasantly surprised to come so close, which is why the election night coverage shows me looking fairly serene (and AS looking fairly disgruntled).

    We actually won on the day - the postal votes sank us plus our failure to squeeze the LibDems - they still got 17%, helped by a Nottingham Post voodoo poll (of a few shoppers) showing them ahead of us and just behind the Tories, which they used to suppress the tactical vote. That is unlikely to happen again IMO - they still haven't even selected a candidate and nobody supposes they have a chance of winning.

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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I've noticed recently that the Standard seems to have it in for poor old Sadiq Khan in Tooting. If this continues I wonder if he might be vulnerable. I guess he might benefit from lib dem switchers tho'.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Whoops, from my post. No Tories in the upper highlands excepting a NO vote in which case, Banff and Buchan.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited March 2014
    taffys said:

    I've noticed recently that the Standard seems to have it in for poor old Sadiq Khan in Tooting. If this continues I wonder if he might be vulnerable. I guess he might benefit from lib dem switchers tho'.

    Whatever happened to him? Haven't seen him venting his spleen for ages

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    isam said:

    @SeanT - People who think Camden Town is a dump haven't spent that much time there; neither can they have seen it when it really was a dump. The change over the last 20 years has been phenomenal.

    The road next to Sainsburys, opposite the Stables Market, toward the Chalk Farm end is where crack dealers openly sell their product.

    I lived in College Lane, Kentish Town for a couple of years with a mate who was an alcoholic crack smoker, and that's where he bought his Cilla from

    My Grandad grew up in College Lane. He had 16 brothers and sisters. Can you imagine all of them in one of those places?

    As I say, Camden Town is not Hampstead, but compared to where it was it was it has come on leaps and bounds. But I remember when even Upper Street was considered bandit country. Inner North London is a different country these days.

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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Ishmael_X said:

    Inflation at 4 year low - BBC.

    You have to wonder how relevant Ed's cost of living crisis stuff will look this time next year.

    When Osborne was forced to blame the snow for a reversal of economic fortunes less than a year into the job it began to look as though he would be an unlucky Chancellor, but his luck has been on the turn for a while, with one year still to come.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Dyeds referendum monitor
    No 53/47
    However monitor tightening in line with polls.
    Gut feeling - acrimoniously too close to call
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    eekeek Posts: 25,027

    @SeanT - People who think Camden Town is a dump haven't spent that much time there; neither can they have seen it when it really was a dump. The change over the last 20 years has been phenomenal.

    I go through it weekly - Sean is right north of the tube station. The High Street, however, is a disgrace. I now actually expect to be pestered by someone begging for drink when I change buses there, typically at a quarter past nine in the morning.

    I suppose pound shops have to go somewhere but surely we don't need betting shops any more? There's this thing called the Internet...
    They only exist for the profit monster (and destroyer of lives) that is the Fixed Odd Machine. Ban those and most bookies would disappear... The budget went some way to destroying them but sadly not enough.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,917
    SeanT said:

    Mornin'. I have a hangover.

    Thanks to the nice people who consoled me about my late auntie, though she was 89, so we do not repine.

    I see some other people were dissing Camden again, calling it a toilet, and scoffing at my suggestion that the local economy generates billions.

    Now it may or may not be a toilet - each to his own - but it is unquestionably a massively successful economic engine.

    Some figures.

    Camden markets are the fourth most popular tourist attraction in London. The crowds are phenomenal, and they come here specifically to spend.

    It gets 40 million visitors a year. Yes, 40 million. Do the maths.

    The surrounding economic ecosystem, attracted by the buzz - small creative businesses, restaurants and music venues, digital startups - is intensely concentrated yet enormous: 2,200 companies employing 20,000 people.

    Camden markets are SO successful a part of them - just a part - recently sold for $660 million.

    http://jewishbusinessnews.com/2014/03/16/teddy-sagi-buys-londons-camden-stables-market-in-deal-valued-at-us664-million/

    http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/09a-App4-Camden-Town-Urban-Design-Report PDF.pdf

    And HS2 wanted to casually smash a railway through all this, potentially wrecking everything, just because halfwitted northerners can't work out how to stroll 300 yards to change trains.

    It was insane. Which is why it was rejected.

    Fascinating discussion re Camden (where a good friend of mine lives). But please don't be so dismissive about having to trek several hundred yards in central London with luggage, perhaps in the rain. Every year I have the problem of trying to sort out travel arrangements for an elderly relative from Scotland to France without going through Heathrow (out of the question, as it is so confusing/distressing) as he refuses to go in the summer, when there are direct flights. A direct train perhaps with cross-platform change (with Customs if needed) would be an absolute blessing, as well as saving hours off the journey.

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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    SeanT said:

    @SeanT - People who think Camden Town is a dump haven't spent that much time there; neither can they have seen it when it really was a dump. The change over the last 20 years has been phenomenal.

    Yes. Truth be told I thought Camden Town was a dump til I moved here, an interesting dump, but a dump. It's cause the high street is bleak south of the Tube and the first sight of the market is crappy souvenir tat.

    But spend a few hours here, let alone years, and you see the beauty of the Georgian terraces behind the high street, and the gorgeous jumble of the markets by the lock, the magnificent post industrial architecture of the canals and railways, and of course the people - the millions and millions of people, mainly young, from all over the world. If multiculturalism is ever going to work, then it needs to look something like Camden, with everyone slammed together, not ghettoised and separated.

    Talking of which, sorry if I was a little short with you yesterday. It's because intelligent lefties like you, who fail to see the dangers of things like "sharia wills", frustrate me so intensely. You mean well, you should see the problem, yet you are myopic.

    Hey ho. Time for breakfast.
    You should try flaxonptootch for a haircut.. funny guy and a cool place
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    SeanT said:

    @SeanT - People who think Camden Town is a dump haven't spent that much time there; neither can they have seen it when it really was a dump. The change over the last 20 years has been phenomenal.

    Yes. Truth be told I thought Camden Town was a dump til I moved here, an interesting dump, but a dump. It's cause the high street is bleak south of the Tube and the first sight of the market is crappy souvenir tat.

    But spend a few hours here, let alone years, and you see the beauty of the Georgian terraces behind the high street, and the gorgeous jumble of the markets by the lock, the magnificent post industrial architecture of the canals and railways, and of course the people - the millions and millions of people, mainly young, from all over the world. If multiculturalism is ever going to work, then it needs to look something like Camden, with everyone slammed together, not ghettoised and separated.

    Talking of which, sorry if I was a little short with you yesterday. It's because intelligent lefties like you, who fail to see the dangers of things like "sharia wills", frustrate me so intensely. You mean well, you should see the problem, yet you are myopic.

    Hey ho. Time for breakfast.

    Cheers - but don't worry about it. I actually agree with most of what you say and can definitely see the dangers of sharia wills or institutionalising any other kind of civil agreement that enshrines inequalities. My objection is to the specific categorisation of sharia in that way, when other religious laws - such as those followed by Orthodox Jews - are also highly discriminatory.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Swiss_Bob said:

    If the odds were worth it I'd bet on a Con majority.

    The economy is improving and Labour look to be imploding.

    Lol. The odds on offer are pretty good, so if you think there will be a Con majority clearly you should bet the house. What's stopping you?

    But welcome to the site anyway!

    Nick, while we're chatting on expectations what was your appreciation of your 2010 campaign. Did you think you might edge the win, lose, or that it was all in the balance from the start of the official campaign or perhaps a mixture of all three at times ?

    I thought from about 2008 onwards that I was likely to lose, probably by about 4,000, but it wasn't completely hopeless. My main objective was to force the Tories to fight hard for it, diverting resources from elsewhere, and hope that something would turn up to give us a shot as well. What we did was fight the campaign at an intensely personal level - hence the Tories for Palmer, Independents for Palmer, etc. Canvass returns did show an awful lot of people tempted to vote for me who weren't sold on Labour, so that seemed to be the best chance. All the same, I was pleasantly surprised to come so close, which is why the election night coverage shows me looking fairly serene (and AS looking fairly disgruntled).

    We actually won on the day - the postal votes sank us plus our failure to squeeze the LibDems - they still got 17%, helped by a Nottingham Post voodoo poll (of a few shoppers) showing them ahead of us and just behind the Tories, which they used to suppress the tactical vote. That is unlikely to happen again IMO - they still haven't even selected a candidate and nobody supposes they have a chance of winning.

    Thanks Nick .... Clearly @Peter_the_Punter added to the fun !!

    Presently my ARSE has you back but just outside the TCTC range. Best get PtP back just in case.

    How do you see the seat presently ?

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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited March 2014

    isam said:

    @SeanT - People who think Camden Town is a dump haven't spent that much time there; neither can they have seen it when it really was a dump. The change over the last 20 years has been phenomenal.

    The road next to Sainsburys, opposite the Stables Market, toward the Chalk Farm end is where crack dealers openly sell their product.

    I lived in College Lane, Kentish Town for a couple of years with a mate who was an alcoholic crack smoker, and that's where he bought his Cilla from

    My Grandad grew up in College Lane. He had 16 brothers and sisters. Can you imagine all of them in one of those places?

    As I say, Camden Town is not Hampstead, but compared to where it was it was it has come on leaps and bounds. But I remember when even Upper Street was considered bandit country. Inner North London is a different country these days.

    Really? I lived at No 10.. rented off a mate who was working abroad. There were 5 of us in there... 19 would've been a push! Little Green St at the end of the road was v quaint.

    I guess I first went to Camden in around 1990 as a teenager, and it doesn't seem to have changed that much to me since.. always been a bit scuzzy with a few nice parts... a mixture of wronguns and well meaning groovy leftie druggie types...bit more commercialised now I guess

    *EDIT I guess I should recognise that I have changed a lot since 1990, when I was a druggie, lefty type.. Camden has probably changed, become more mainstream and straight, as I have, and that's why it seems not to have changed much to me
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    @dyedwoolie - Kudos for putting your head above the parapet. I agree with a lot of what you say, although I'd go the other way on a few.
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    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    isam said:

    @SeanT - People who think Camden Town is a dump haven't spent that much time there; neither can they have seen it when it really was a dump. The change over the last 20 years has been phenomenal.

    The road next to Sainsburys, opposite the Stables Market, toward the Chalk Farm end is where crack dealers openly sell their product.

    I lived in College Lane, Kentish Town for a couple of years with a mate who was an alcoholic crack smoker, and that's where he bought his Cilla from
    The area around College Lane, Kentish Town is becoming quite gentrified with new apartments being offered nearby from about 700k .
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,075

    @SeanT - People who think Camden Town is a dump haven't spent that much time there; neither can they have seen it when it really was a dump. The change over the last 20 years has been phenomenal.

    Yes, but on the other hand calling it a dump annoys SeanT. ;-)

    It has improved in the (gulp!) 23 years since I had a student job there, but it's also lost much of its character. The market's just poncey now. And I would still say large parts of it are a dump.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Inner North London is a different country these days.

    All of inner London is changing very fast. I was in a pub in Hackney the other day, packed to the gunnels with young sloanes who presumably can't afford Parsons Green any more.

    I've often wondered if the change is quick and powerful enough to affect some inner London constituencies, which is why I mentioned Tooting.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I only mentioned about half an hour ago about the the lack of it, however, it seemed I missed the following:

    BLUE ON BLUE INCOMING:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26728774

    "Mr Field said the immigration cap of “tens of thousands a year” pledged by David Cameron was “undeliverable” and kept out talented academics and entrepreneurs from outside the EU.......“In such a febrile atmosphere it has become almost impossible to have the rational debate we need. The relentless focus on immigration by the Conservative party seems to the outsider to border on near-obsession.”

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cb179a1c-b279-11e3-8038-00144feabdc0.html

    It's interesting that you seem to view any dissent from the central line to take as a bad thing. Now, I grant you Mark is a prat who is bitter that Cameron never promoted him, but he has had a long standing interest in immigration (as MP for the Two Cities) and disagrees with Cameron's nod to UKIP (deliberate capitals reflecting discussions passim) on the topic.

    To my mind that is healthy debate not "blue on blue incoming" or whatever trite gag you choose to use
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    perdix said:

    isam said:

    @SeanT - People who think Camden Town is a dump haven't spent that much time there; neither can they have seen it when it really was a dump. The change over the last 20 years has been phenomenal.

    The road next to Sainsburys, opposite the Stables Market, toward the Chalk Farm end is where crack dealers openly sell their product.

    I lived in College Lane, Kentish Town for a couple of years with a mate who was an alcoholic crack smoker, and that's where he bought his Cilla from
    The area around College Lane, Kentish Town is becoming quite gentrified with new apartments being offered nearby from about 700k .
    I thought it was a lovely area. Five mins from the Heath, a beautiful walk to Hampstead or Highgate. Rough pubs to watch the football in Tufnell Park, almost perfect!

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    isam said:

    isam said:

    @SeanT - People who think Camden Town is a dump haven't spent that much time there; neither can they have seen it when it really was a dump. The change over the last 20 years has been phenomenal.

    The road next to Sainsburys, opposite the Stables Market, toward the Chalk Farm end is where crack dealers openly sell their product.

    I lived in College Lane, Kentish Town for a couple of years with a mate who was an alcoholic crack smoker, and that's where he bought his Cilla from

    My Grandad grew up in College Lane. He had 16 brothers and sisters. Can you imagine all of them in one of those places?

    As I say, Camden Town is not Hampstead, but compared to where it was it was it has come on leaps and bounds. But I remember when even Upper Street was considered bandit country. Inner North London is a different country these days.

    Really? I lived at No 10.. rented off a mate who was working abroad. There were 5 of us in there... 19 would've been a push! Little Green St at the end of the road was v quaint.

    I guess I first went to Camden in around 1990 as a teenager, and it doesn't seem to have changed that much to me since.. always been a bit scuzzy with a few nice parts... a mixture of wronguns and well meaning groovy leftie druggie types...bit more commercialised now I guess

    I don't think they were all there at the same time! They were owned by the railway back then and his Dad was a train driver. I don't know what number it was. My granddad died a long time ago.

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    isam said:

    perdix said:

    isam said:

    @SeanT - People who think Camden Town is a dump haven't spent that much time there; neither can they have seen it when it really was a dump. The change over the last 20 years has been phenomenal.

    The road next to Sainsburys, opposite the Stables Market, toward the Chalk Farm end is where crack dealers openly sell their product.

    I lived in College Lane, Kentish Town for a couple of years with a mate who was an alcoholic crack smoker, and that's where he bought his Cilla from
    The area around College Lane, Kentish Town is becoming quite gentrified with new apartments being offered nearby from about 700k .
    I thought it was a lovely area. Five mins from the Heath, a beautiful walk to Hampstead or Highgate. Rough pubs to watch the football in Tufnell Park, almost perfect!

    All the pubs in Tufnell Park are pretty upmarket now. Except the Boston Arms. That will never change.

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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The gentrification is dizzying.

    Enough to substantially affect the voting in any of the inner London seats? That is what makes it interesting for me.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Ishmael_X said:

    Inflation at 4 year low - BBC.

    You have to wonder how relevant Ed's cost of living crisis stuff will look this time next year.

    When Osborne was forced to blame the snow for a reversal of economic fortunes less than a year into the job it began to look as though he would be an unlucky Chancellor, but his luck has been on the turn for a while, with one year still to come.
    Osborne can't influence the weather. Snow is bad luck.

    He can influence the level of inflation. Good economic management is a big part of his success story, not just luck.
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    JackW said:

    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the contents of the latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection :

    Con 308 .. Lab 270 .. LibDem 40 .. SNP 9 .. PC 2 .. NI 18 .. Ukip 1 .. Respect 0 .. Green 1 .. Ind 0 .. Speaker 1

    Conservatives 18 seats short of a majority.

    Note - Highest Conservative seat total in the 2015 GE projections.

    .................................................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors

    Ladbrokes are offering 5/2 for 40 Lib Dem seats Jack. Money for old rope. Have you remortgaged your semi?
    Says a man who wont back an 11/2 shot he makes odds on because he's building an extension on his house
    - "he makes odds on" Huh? Whit are ye whiterin on aboot?

    a) what is this "11/2 shot" you speak of?
    b) I fear that you are labouring under the misapprehension that I am a bookmaker. I am not. You would be best to consult with Shadsy and his ilk.
    I thought you were of the opinion that Yes was more likely than No in the indy ref (odds on)
    At no point has that ever been my opinion. As I have repeatedly stated, very explicitly, I have no idea if Yes or No is going to win in September.

    I have backed Yes at ridiculously long odds at Betfair in the past (nearly 7 IIRCC), not because I believe that Yes will win (I don't), but simply because it was preposterously good value.
    I know what value means, I thought it was you that said they expected Yes to win.

    Must have been @theuniondivvie or @malcolmg
    Malcolm thinks that Yes is going to win. I cannot recall seeing any predictions from Union Dividend.
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    compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Charles said:

    I only mentioned about half an hour ago about the the lack of it, however, it seemed I missed the following:

    BLUE ON BLUE INCOMING:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26728774

    "Mr Field said the immigration cap of “tens of thousands a year” pledged by David Cameron was “undeliverable” and kept out talented academics and entrepreneurs from outside the EU.......“In such a febrile atmosphere it has become almost impossible to have the rational debate we need. The relentless focus on immigration by the Conservative party seems to the outsider to border on near-obsession.”

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cb179a1c-b279-11e3-8038-00144feabdc0.html

    It's interesting that you seem to view any dissent from the central line to take as a bad thing. Now, I grant you Mark is a prat who is bitter that Cameron never promoted him, but he has had a long standing interest in immigration (as MP for the Two Cities) and disagrees with Cameron's nod to UKIP (deliberate capitals reflecting discussions passim) on the topic.

    To my mind that is healthy debate not "blue on blue incoming" or whatever trite gag you choose to use
    As the sites self imposed observer of BLUE ON BLUE INCOMING, I think it is only fair that I share the plentitude of information on offer with other posters.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Carnyx said:

    SeanT said:

    Mornin'. I have a hangover.

    Thanks to the nice people who consoled me about my late auntie, though she was 89, so we do not repine.

    I see some other people were dissing Camden again, calling it a toilet, and scoffing at my suggestion that the local economy generates billions.

    Now it may or may not be a toilet - each to his own - but it is unquestionably a massively successful economic engine.

    Some figures.

    Camden markets are the fourth most popular tourist attraction in London. The crowds are phenomenal, and they come here specifically to spend.

    It gets 40 million visitors a year. Yes, 40 million. Do the maths.

    The surrounding economic ecosystem, attracted by the buzz - small creative businesses, restaurants and music venues, digital startups - is intensely concentrated yet enormous: 2,200 companies employing 20,000 people.

    Camden markets are SO successful a part of them - just a part - recently sold for $660 million.

    http://jewishbusinessnews.com/2014/03/16/teddy-sagi-buys-londons-camden-stables-market-in-deal-valued-at-us664-million/

    http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/09a-App4-Camden-Town-Urban-Design-Report PDF.pdf

    And HS2 wanted to casually smash a railway through all this, potentially wrecking everything, just because halfwitted northerners can't work out how to stroll 300 yards to change trains.

    It was insane. Which is why it was rejected.

    Fascinating discussion re Camden (where a good friend of mine lives). But please don't be so dismissive about having to trek several hundred yards in central London with luggage, perhaps in the rain. Every year I have the problem of trying to sort out travel arrangements for an elderly relative from Scotland to France without going through Heathrow (out of the question, as it is so confusing/distressing) as he refuses to go in the summer, when there are direct flights. A direct train perhaps with cross-platform change (with Customs if needed) would be an absolute blessing, as well as saving hours off the journey.

    Current plan is a covered travelator. Not as convenient for your relative, but not a bad alternative and £700m cheaper.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,075
    Douglas Adams wrote something about Islington 25 or more years ago, where he describes walking down one street and seeing short bands of extreme prosperity separated by areas of poverty. As Islington led, so many other parts of London are following.

    Sadly, I cannot locate the quote. It might have been in an interview rather than a book ...
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,917
    Charles said:

    Carnyx said:

    SeanT said:

    Mornin'. I have a hangover.

    Thanks to the nice people who consoled me about my late auntie, though she was 89, so we do not repine.

    I see some other people were dissing Camden again, calling it a toilet, and scoffing at my suggestion that the local economy generates billions.

    Now it may or may not be a toilet - each to his own - but it is unquestionably a massively successful economic engine.

    Some figures.

    Camden markets are the fourth most popular tourist attraction in London. The crowds are phenomenal, and they come here specifically to spend.

    It gets 40 million visitors a year. Yes, 40 million. Do the maths.

    The surrounding economic ecosystem, attracted by the buzz - small creative businesses, restaurants and music venues, digital startups - is intensely concentrated yet enormous: 2,200 companies employing 20,000 people.

    Camden markets are SO successful a part of them - just a part - recently sold for $660 million.

    http://jewishbusinessnews.com/2014/03/16/teddy-sagi-buys-londons-camden-stables-market-in-deal-valued-at-us664-million/

    http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/09a-App4-Camden-Town-Urban-Design-Report PDF.pdf

    And HS2 wanted to casually smash a railway through all this, potentially wrecking everything, just because halfwitted northerners can't work out how to stroll 300 yards to change trains.

    It was insane. Which is why it was rejected.

    Fascinating discussion re Camden (where a good friend of mine lives). But please don't be so dismissive about having to trek several hundred yards in central London with luggage, perhaps in the rain. Every year I have the problem of trying to sort out travel arrangements for an elderly relative from Scotland to France without going through Heathrow (out of the question, as it is so confusing/distressing) as he refuses to go in the summer, when there are direct flights. A direct train perhaps with cross-platform change (with Customs if needed) would be an absolute blessing, as well as saving hours off the journey.

    Current plan is a covered travelator. Not as convenient for your relative, but not a bad alternative and £700m cheaper.
    Not a through train, but indeed better than nothing.
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    Swiss_BobSwiss_Bob Posts: 619
    To those who replied:

    I bet almost every day, on sports, I have won on every match so far in the T20 where you can get great odds on almost every match at some point and being a contrarian and not wanting to lose a lot of money I tend to make small stakes where there are reasonable odds which you can back and lay throughout the match. That's why I say 2.7 on a Con majority is not worth the candle one year out.

    I took Mr Smithson's advice and put a fiver on the Indy ref but closed it out because I couldn't be bothered to wait, and no I didn't make any money on that even though the odds have come in now. Good spot Mr Smithson.

    If you are talking dead certs everyone here should have put as much as possible on the Women's T20 NZ v Ire, you could have got 1.2 on NZ, they romped home.

    As far as 'imploding' over egging the pudding, look at their polling numbers at this point in the electoral cycle, they should be much better, then look at Miliband and his front bench. Maybe I should lay Labour :-)
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    compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited March 2014
    Charles said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Inflation at 4 year low - BBC.

    You have to wonder how relevant Ed's cost of living crisis stuff will look this time next year.

    When Osborne was forced to blame the snow for a reversal of economic fortunes less than a year into the job it began to look as though he would be an unlucky Chancellor, but his luck has been on the turn for a while, with one year still to come.
    Osborne can't influence the weather. Snow is bad luck.

    He can influence the level of inflation. Good economic management is a big part of his success story, not just luck.
    I think you may find that snow is generally part of Winter weather and not bad luck or are you saying Osborne was the only chancellor to have been unlucky enough to get snow during the Winter. It is quite funny really as when GDP was on the floor there were plenty of excuses made. Soon as it rises, it is all thanks to Gideon.....strange eh.

    http://redrag1.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/red-rag-moving-goalpost-on-gdp.html
This discussion has been closed.