I think if a democratic USA comes out at the other end of this he will be for the legal high jump. Subject, maybe, to a pardon from Trump.
Yes, that is the terrifying aspect of all this. Musk *has* to dismantle democracy in the US or he will end up in a cell for many years. It's a do or die play.
Except he won't
His extralegal activity (if there is any) will go unpunished. They are operating above the law.
JUST IN: A federal judge in Washington says she's concerned that the White House is still implementing the spending freeze that she and a Rhode Island judge have ordered temporarily halted.
Judge AliKhan is inclined to issue a restraining order.
The ultimate power of any court is in its coercive orders - and a machinery to readily enforce those orders.
But once those coercive orders are defied without sanction, there is nothing left.
That’s it: game over.
Just pieces of paper with fancy words and writing.
The game is over in America in that sense. It was over when the American people were stupid enough to re-elect Trump.
He was quite clear as to the damage to democracy and rule of law that he intended to do and he is going about it rapidly.
It is very very sad and leaves remaining democracies incredibly exposed to similar.
We can only hope enough americans come to their senses to stop this and rebuild in four years, forcing him out of office when he refuses to leave in Jan 2029.
Really interesting exerpt from Mike Benz being interviewed by Glen Greenwald, about how USAID is the glue that holds together the tentacles of US activist foreign policy, funding groups all over the world to advocate for internet censorship in the name of ‘saving democracy’.
This is the aid that Zelensky himself said the other day has gone mostly to American bureaucracy rather than to actually doing the job it was supposed to do. He says he received less than half the aid that the US said they’d sent.
The bulk of the USAID 40 billion hasn't been direct humanitarian aid as such, but rather contributions to the World Bank "Public Expenditures for Administrative Capacity Endurance (PEACE)" fund, which helps pay for things like the wages of non-security public employees. Either way, it's clearly not what Zelensky is complaining about in the video.
It's sad to see what's happened to Sandpit, they used to be someone I probably didn't agree with often politically, but had a valuable perspective backed up with facts. Nowadays (at least on certain topics) a very high percentage of posts are misleading or simply false.
You shouldn't be surprised to hear that I want to see as much aid as possible end up in Ukraine. That also means carefully auditing the money, so that it actually ends up where it’s supposed to be, and not consumed by a massive blob of NGOs enriching themselves from government largesse.
The people talking about USAID over the past couple of days have the receipts, there’s plenty of evidence of wasteful spending layers of management and bureaucracy between the government and the actual work being done on the ground.
I'm sure you can find wasteful spending. But the video you linked to with the comment
"This is the aid that Zelensky himself said the other day has gone mostly to American bureaucracy rather than to actually doing the job it was supposed to do."
was not about the 40 billion dollars of USAID given to Ukraine, the bulk of which has gone to pay the wages and pensions etc of Ukrainian public sector employees. This is what I am complaining about. Your standards used to be much higher.
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Because it would get expanded.
Fine, death penalty for murderers, then it would to move to rapists etc, where the criminal justice fails badly.
Imagine being placed on remand for rape, I wonder where your mind would go if you knew you might get executed.
'Donald Trump's new Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy performs a raunchy 'Chippendale' striptease and gets his nipple licked in a cringeworthy clip from his forgotten past in reality TV.
The resurfaced footage shows the man tasked with restoring confidence in America's shaken airline industry prancing around in nothing but his tighty whities, socks, and eyeglasses.
Set to sultry saxophone music, the risqué routine begins with a 20-something Duffy gyrating near-naked in front of a window while fellow contestants from MTV's The Real World: Boston howl with laughter.'
I think if a democratic USA comes out at the other end of this he will be for the legal high jump. Subject, maybe, to a pardon from Trump.
Yes, that is the terrifying aspect of all this. Musk *has* to dismantle democracy in the US or he will end up in a cell for many years. It's a do or die play.
Just so sad and scary to watch american democracy be destroyed in front of our eyes, effectively by a tiny handful of people (albeit with the cast of useful idiots formerly known as GOP congressional figures).
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
Assuming it's the Sheffield 15 year old, it's still on the front page of the BBC news website (although a fair way down). Given the age of the alleged perpetrator (also 15, I believe) there's probably very little they're allowed to publish at the moment.
No much on the newspaper front pages, to be fair (Express excepted). Should be headline news that a boy gets murdered at school, surely?
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Because we’d get it expanded.
Fine, death penalty for murderers, then it would to move to rapists etc, where the criminal justice fails badly.
Last time you were making the opposite argument that if we had the death penalty, juries would start letting everyone off.
Really interesting exerpt from Mike Benz being interviewed by Glen Greenwald, about how USAID is the glue that holds together the tentacles of US activist foreign policy, funding groups all over the world to advocate for internet censorship in the name of ‘saving democracy’.
This is the aid that Zelensky himself said the other day has gone mostly to American bureaucracy rather than to actually doing the job it was supposed to do. He says he received less than half the aid that the US said they’d sent.
The bulk of the USAID 40 billion hasn't been direct humanitarian aid as such, but rather contributions to the World Bank "Public Expenditures for Administrative Capacity Endurance (PEACE)" fund, which helps pay for things like the wages of non-security public employees. Either way, it's clearly not what Zelensky is complaining about in the video.
It's sad to see what's happened to Sandpit, they used to be someone I probably didn't agree with often politically, but had a valuable perspective backed up with facts. Nowadays (at least on certain topics) a very high percentage of posts are misleading or simply false.
You shouldn't be surprised to hear that I want to see as much aid as possible end up in Ukraine. That also means carefully auditing the money, so that it actually ends up where it’s supposed to be, and not consumed by a massive blob of NGOs enriching themselves from government largesse.
The people talking about USAID over the past couple of days have the receipts, there’s plenty of evidence of wasteful spending layers of management and bureaucracy between the government and the actual work being done on the ground.
Far too much of the political discourse in the US revolves around how much money is being spent, rather than what’s actually being delivered for that money.
"You shouldn't be surprised to hear that I want to see as much aid as possible end up in Ukraine."
And yet the GOP and Trump - who you support - cost countless Ukrainian lives when they withheld weapons from Ukraine for months last year.
Be very careful that in your quest to see US government money well spent, you do not fall in with the crowd who use 'waste' as an excuse not to give Ukraine anything.
Trump is doing some very odd things. This attack on Direct File, which saves ordinary folk about $11 billion in accountancy fees, is going to piss a lot of people off.
It's only odd if you forget the mantra, "Will this enrich private businessmen?"
That is actually one of the things I was expecting Trump to implement as every Republican wanted it killed at the request of a campaign funding source - I mean the market is worth $11bn a year - you could throw $1bn into campaign funds and still make $10bn a year
The killer bit here is that there is no open source equivalent so people are going to have to pay.
That’s the sort of project that couple of serious developers could do in a week, at least for Federal taxes. It’s only complicated because it’s deliberately made damn complicated by the vested interests who lobby the politicians.
It’s when you start investigating why there is no equivalent to say Stripe that the story gets interesting - basically it’s set up as a monopoly on such a way that new competitors can’t begin
Listening to Nigel Farage this morning on Today, does anyone really think this is the man to lead us out of our troubles and to a new golden age. Hugely successful politician he may be and have been but he is devoid of ideas and simply an empty vessel into which people project their own hopes, fears, desires and whatnot.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Is every single complaint that something didn't make the news bogus? It often seems like it. The stabbing topped the BBC News website. There are about 240 deaths by stabbing in the UK a year; the vast majority of them don't get on the BBC News front page.
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Because we’d get it expanded.
Fine, death penalty for murderers, then it would to move to rapists etc, where the criminal justice fails badly.
Last time you were making the opposite argument that if we had the death penalty, juries would start letting everyone off.
I see you are mischaracterising my comments, again.
I said where the death penalty was on the cards juries would move the benchmark for conviction from beyond a reasonable doubt to 100% unimpeachable proof.
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Because it would get expanded.
Fine, death penalty for murderers, then it would to move to rapists etc, where the criminal justice fails badly.
Imagine being placed on remand for rape, I wonder where your mind would go if you knew you might get executed.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
Assuming it's the Sheffield 15 year old, it's still on the front page of the BBC news website (although a fair way down). Given the age of the alleged perpetrator (also 15, I believe) there's probably very little they're allowed to publish at the moment.
No much on the newspaper front pages, to be fair (Express excepted). Should be headline news that a boy gets murdered at school, surely?
The problem is what can the school do about it - it’s a tragedy but the school has the dual problem of needing to teach the troublesome child and keep everyone else safe
Really interesting exerpt from Mike Benz being interviewed by Glen Greenwald, about how USAID is the glue that holds together the tentacles of US activist foreign policy, funding groups all over the world to advocate for internet censorship in the name of ‘saving democracy’.
This is the aid that Zelensky himself said the other day has gone mostly to American bureaucracy rather than to actually doing the job it was supposed to do. He says he received less than half the aid that the US said they’d sent.
The bulk of the USAID 40 billion hasn't been direct humanitarian aid as such, but rather contributions to the World Bank "Public Expenditures for Administrative Capacity Endurance (PEACE)" fund, which helps pay for things like the wages of non-security public employees. Either way, it's clearly not what Zelensky is complaining about in the video.
It's sad to see what's happened to @Sandpit, they used to be someone I probably didn't agree with often politically, but had a valuable perspective backed up with facts. Nowadays (at least on certain topics) a very high percentage of posts are misleading or simply false.
I think if a democratic USA comes out at the other end of this he will be for the legal high jump. Subject, maybe, to a pardon from Trump.
Yes, that is the terrifying aspect of all this. Musk *has* to dismantle democracy in the US or he will end up in a cell for many years. It's a do or die play.
Just so sad and scary to watch american democracy be destroyed in front of our eyes, effectively by a tiny handful of people (albeit with the cast of useful idiots formerly known as GOP congressional figures).
The one thing Musk appears to have learnt is move quickly and ask for forgiveness later
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Because it would get expanded.
Fine, death penalty for murderers, then it would to move to rapists etc, where the criminal justice fails badly.
Imagine being placed on remand for rape, I wonder where your mind would go if you knew you might get executed.
In any case, Farage opposes capital punishment.
But intended consequences, he supports leaving the ECHR.
A bit like those Brexiteers moaning that leaving the EU allows the government to apply VAT to private school fees.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
Assuming it's the Sheffield 15 year old, it's still on the front page of the BBC news website (although a fair way down). Given the age of the alleged perpetrator (also 15, I believe) there's probably very little they're allowed to publish at the moment.
No much on the newspaper front pages, to be fair (Express excepted). Should be headline news that a boy gets murdered at school, surely?
Well it sounds like it is being reported then. How much prominence is going to depend on lots of things, like how much other news is happening (quite a lot at the moment?).
quick internet comes up with this (referring to 2023 I think)
Last year, 244 people in England and Wales tragically died after being assaulted with a knife. Of these, 32 were children
though I suppose a stabbing at school is more newsworthy than elsewhere.
Just wondered what is the connection between the amount of reporting on this and people having no faith in government?
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
15, apologies. Reasons why it has been dropped by the media like BBC into, 'also in the news', you'd have to guess. Would have thought it should be dominating the headlines.
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Because it would get expanded.
Fine, death penalty for murderers, then it would to move to rapists etc, where the criminal justice fails badly.
Imagine being placed on remand for rape, I wonder where your mind would go if you knew you might get executed.
In any case, Farage opposes capital punishment.
But intended consequences, he supports leaving the ECHR.
A bit like those Brexiteers moaning that leaving the EU allows the government to apply VAT to private school fees.
Completing a necessary precursor doesn’t make an end result inevitable.
Vat on school fees is because Labour members wanted it - the precursor was done by the Bozo.
So unless you wish to blame Bozo for VAT on school fees we can’t blame Farage’s dislike for the ECHR if capital punishment reappeared
'Donald Trump's new Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy performs a raunchy 'Chippendale' striptease and gets his nipple licked in a cringeworthy clip from his forgotten past in reality TV.
The resurfaced footage shows the man tasked with restoring confidence in America's shaken airline industry prancing around in nothing but his tighty whities, socks, and eyeglasses.
Set to sultry saxophone music, the risqué routine begins with a 20-something Duffy gyrating near-naked in front of a window while fellow contestants from MTV's The Real World: Boston howl with laughter.'
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
15, apologies. Reasons why it has been dropped by the media like BBC into, 'also in the news', you'd have to guess. Would have thought it should be dominating the headlines.
I have no idea, except there's a lot of other news around, and stabbings of children are sadly not that rare.
edited to add: the age of victim and perpetrator also limit reporting.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
15, apologies. Reasons why it has been dropped by the media like BBC into, 'also in the news', you'd have to guess. Would have thought it should be dominating the headlines.
I have no idea, except there's a lot of other news around, and stabbings of children are sadly not that rare.
edited to add: the age of victim and perpetrator also limit reporting.
What's your guess?
Presumably it's some Southport-like racist conspiracy theory.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
15, apologies. Reasons why it has been dropped by the media like BBC into, 'also in the news', you'd have to guess. Would have thought it should be dominating the headlines.
I have no idea, except there's a lot of other news around, and stabbings of children are sadly not that rare.
edited to add: the age of victim and perpetrator also limit reporting.
What's your guess?
A number of those involved (victim, witnesses, perpetrator?) are children, so reporting restrictions are more severe than usual in a criminal cases
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
There was no argument for locking down healthy young people who were about as likely to be struck by lightning as they were to die from COVID.
There was some argument for measures for over-70s or those who were otherwise vulnerable.
Instead we got a wildly excessive terror campaign and an economically devastating furlough scheme that we're still paying for. At least Starmer wasn't in power then - it would have been even worse with him.
The majority of older people that caught Covid & had serious consequences caught it from younger (probably asymptomatic) people in their own household. In old people’s homes care staff or support workers would have brought it in.
How are you going to prevent schoolkids giving Covid to their parents, or their grandparent who lives in the same household in your non-lockdown world? You’re not, which means in turn that the inevitable outcome would have been the collapse of the NHS as it became overwhelmed with Covid cases & the Covid death rate would probably have doubled.
As it was things were touch and go - I’ve talked to respiratory consultants around where I live & they were absolutely flat out, with no spare capacity whatsoever having dredged up every bit of healthcare support available & running the people involved into the ground. Any further serious cases would have simply been sent to the Nightingale tent hospitals to die (which is what they were for of course).
Lockdowns were the least worst option available to the government at the time.
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Because it would get expanded.
Fine, death penalty for murderers, then it would to move to rapists etc, where the criminal justice fails badly.
Imagine being placed on remand for rape, I wonder where your mind would go if you knew you might get executed.
In any case, Farage opposes capital punishment.
But intended consequences, he supports leaving the ECHR.
A bit like those Brexiteers moaning that leaving the EU allows the government to apply VAT to private school fees.
Oh no! A belief in democracy! How awful.
Not relevant, but we executed people whilst in the ECHR, and could have done so until 1985 had we wanted, when the ECHR adopted a protocol banning it.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
15, apologies. Reasons why it has been dropped by the media like BBC into, 'also in the news', you'd have to guess. Would have thought it should be dominating the headlines.
I have no idea, except there's a lot of other news around, and stabbings of children are sadly not that rare.
edited to add: the age of victim and perpetrator also limit reporting.
What's your guess?
It did make the main Radio 4 bulletin last night fairly prominently, which was where I heard about it. So hardly unreported despite limited information being allowed.
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Putting Nigel to death is a bit of an excessive punishment.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
Assuming it's the Sheffield 15 year old, it's still on the front page of the BBC news website (although a fair way down). Given the age of the alleged perpetrator (also 15, I believe) there's probably very little they're allowed to publish at the moment.
No much on the newspaper front pages, to be fair (Express excepted). Should be headline news that a boy gets murdered at school, surely?
The problem is what can the school do about it - it’s a tragedy but the school has the dual problem of needing to teach the troublesome child and keep everyone else safe
Am I a touch odd in feeling very sorry for the perpetrators parents? As I do for the parents of the Southport killer.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
15, apologies. Reasons why it has been dropped by the media like BBC into, 'also in the news', you'd have to guess. Would have thought it should be dominating the headlines.
It absolutely led news outlets for a time yesterday. The cycle moves on fast, and it moves as a pack. Also, except in the most spectacular of crimes (Southport for example) the practical and legal restrictions on what you can say, what names and identities you can use, mean that for the story to survive needs large amounts of Polly Filla journalism, adding nothing to the actual story; without USPs (like Southport) interest disappears when there is nothing new to say.
This compares very starkly with how, for example, Victorian newspapers could report, speculate and theorise.
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Because it would get expanded.
Fine, death penalty for murderers, then it would to move to rapists etc, where the criminal justice fails badly.
Imagine being placed on remand for rape, I wonder where your mind would go if you knew you might get executed.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
Assuming it's the Sheffield 15 year old, it's still on the front page of the BBC news website (although a fair way down). Given the age of the alleged perpetrator (also 15, I believe) there's probably very little they're allowed to publish at the moment.
No much on the newspaper front pages, to be fair (Express excepted). Should be headline news that a boy gets murdered at school, surely?
The problem is what can the school do about it - it’s a tragedy but the school has the dual problem of needing to teach the troublesome child and keep everyone else safe
Am I a touch odd in feeling very sorry for the perpetrators parents? As I do for the parents of the Southport killer.
Nope - I think we will find that the parents knew there were major problems and didn’t have anywhere near the level of support required
'Donald Trump's new Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy performs a raunchy 'Chippendale' striptease and gets his nipple licked in a cringeworthy clip from his forgotten past in reality TV.
The resurfaced footage shows the man tasked with restoring confidence in America's shaken airline industry prancing around in nothing but his tighty whities, socks, and eyeglasses.
Set to sultry saxophone music, the risqué routine begins with a 20-something Duffy gyrating near-naked in front of a window while fellow contestants from MTV's The Real World: Boston howl with laughter.'
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
Assuming it's the Sheffield 15 year old, it's still on the front page of the BBC news website (although a fair way down). Given the age of the alleged perpetrator (also 15, I believe) there's probably very little they're allowed to publish at the moment.
No much on the newspaper front pages, to be fair (Express excepted). Should be headline news that a boy gets murdered at school, surely?
The problem is what can the school do about it - it’s a tragedy but the school has the dual problem of needing to teach the troublesome child and keep everyone else safe
Am I a touch odd in feeling very sorry for the perpetrators parents? As I do for the parents of the Southport killer.
No, nor is it odd in any sense to feel sorry for perpetrators. We are not all Lord Longfords but to see a spark of worth or potential in the absolutely worst is not a vice and there is a long history of remarkable people who can do this. Which does not mean that do-gooders have the right to forgive things they have not themselves suffered.
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Because it would get expanded.
Fine, death penalty for murderers, then it would to move to rapists etc, where the criminal justice fails badly.
Imagine being placed on remand for rape, I wonder where your mind would go if you knew you might get executed.
Who cares? Let the people decide
Government by referendum? For major constitutional issues well, yes, (he says squeamishly).
But anything else, particularly emotive issues like capital punishment, right to die, pineapple on pizzas. Emphatically NO!
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Or it’s just chance - a poorly run department taking very, very sick babies is going to end up with some of them dying. Letby was working more shifts than any other nurse in a week because she was saving for a house deposit & ends up on shift for more of the deaths, making her “prime suspect” when the consultants go looking for someone to blame for the deaths on their watch.
She wouldn’t be the first nurse to have been prosecuted for a statistical co-incidence if that turns out to be the real story.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
Assuming it's the Sheffield 15 year old, it's still on the front page of the BBC news website (although a fair way down). Given the age of the alleged perpetrator (also 15, I believe) there's probably very little they're allowed to publish at the moment.
No much on the newspaper front pages, to be fair (Express excepted). Should be headline news that a boy gets murdered at school, surely?
The problem is what can the school do about it - it’s a tragedy but the school has the dual problem of needing to teach the troublesome child and keep everyone else safe
Am I a touch odd in feeling very sorry for the perpetrators parents? As I do for the parents of the Southport killer.
Nope - I think we will find that the parents knew there were major problems and didn’t have anywhere near the level of support required
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Because we’d get it expanded.
Fine, death penalty for murderers, then it would to move to rapists etc, where the criminal justice fails badly.
Last time you were making the opposite argument that if we had the death penalty, juries would start letting everyone off.
Those aren't contradictory. Both can apply simultaneously.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
Assuming it's the Sheffield 15 year old, it's still on the front page of the BBC news website (although a fair way down). Given the age of the alleged perpetrator (also 15, I believe) there's probably very little they're allowed to publish at the moment.
No much on the newspaper front pages, to be fair (Express excepted). Should be headline news that a boy gets murdered at school, surely?
The problem is what can the school do about it - it’s a tragedy but the school has the dual problem of needing to teach the troublesome child and keep everyone else safe
Am I a touch odd in feeling very sorry for the perpetrators parents? As I do for the parents of the Southport killer.
No, nor is it odd in any sense to feel sorry for perpetrators. We are not all Lord Longfords but to see a spark of worth or potential in the absolutely worst is not a vice and there is a long history of remarkable people who can do this. Which does not mean that do-gooders have the right to forgive things they have not themselves suffered.
I'm certainly not suggesting forgiveness either on my or on society's part.
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
Is this panel overplaying its hand somewhat? By saying every single death was absolutely, definitely, positively the result of institutional neglect, it seems to be setting itself up as omniscient judge, jury and executioner while diving head first into a massive conspiracy theory. Can't help but think they're getting carried away.
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Or it’s just chance - a poorly run department taking very, very sick babies is going to end up with some of them dying. Letby was working more shifts than any other nurse in a week because she was saving for a house deposit & ends up on shift for more of the deaths, making her “prime suspect” when the consultants go looking for someone to blame for the deaths on their watch.
She wouldn’t be the first nurse to have been prosecuted for a statistical co-incidence if that turns out to be the real story.
Your first paragraph is, roughly, what Private Eye is saying.
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Because it would get expanded.
Fine, death penalty for murderers, then it would to move to rapists etc, where the criminal justice fails badly.
Imagine being placed on remand for rape, I wonder where your mind would go if you knew you might get executed.
Who cares? Let the people decide
Government by referendum? For major constitutional issues well, yes, (he says squeamishly).
But anything else, particularly emotive issues like capital punishment, right to die, pineapple on pizzas. Emphatically NO!
Referendums don't even bring change themselves even for major constitutional issues unless Parliament accepts the result.
Afterall MPs and peers voted down Brexit for 3 years after the 2016 Leave win in the EU referendum, only the Conservative majority at the 2019 general election Boris won got Brexit done not the referendum itself
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Be careful, if you have too many referendums you might end up with votes on 90% tax for multi millionaires like globe trotting high earning travel and thriller writers 'to fund our nurses'
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
Is this panel overplaying its hand somewhat? By saying every single death was absolutely, definitely, positively the result of institutional neglect, it seems to be setting itself up as omniscient judge, jury and executioner while diving head first into a massive conspiracy theory. Can't help but think they're getting carried away.
It's worth remembering that she was convicted of attempting to kill seven babies. Those babies survived.
Not sure Dr Lee, chair of the Letby panel, was wise to refer to himself and his colleagues as 'the Dream Team' - conjures up images of the OJ Simpson defence if nothing else.
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
On current available data that isn't knowable. It is remarkable that they didn't call expert evidence, which of course they must have had, but there must have been reasons; these include: it was exceedingly fragile in itself and failed to cover enough bases; it ran a high risk of causing other major difficulties under cross examination - which can range far and wide; Letby may have given instructions not to use it. I don't think 'forensic negligence' is a likely reason.
Private Eye's speculation that they were sure they had a goode enough defence so needn't bother with their evidence belongs in the land of unicorns.
We have no idea; based on what has so far been made public it does not appear that Letby herself is foregoing her continuing right to keep all those matters confidential. Once attacked, her former legal team have a right of reply. Wait and see.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
15, apologies. Reasons why it has been dropped by the media like BBC into, 'also in the news', you'd have to guess. Would have thought it should be dominating the headlines.
It absolutely led news outlets for a time yesterday. The cycle moves on fast, and it moves as a pack. Also, except in the most spectacular of crimes (Southport for example) the practical and legal restrictions on what you can say, what names and identities you can use, mean that for the story to survive needs large amounts of Polly Filla journalism, adding nothing to the actual story; without USPs (like Southport) interest disappears when there is nothing new to say.
This compares very starkly with how, for example, Victorian newspapers could report, speculate and theorise.
The story is one of the top stories on the front page of the BBC News site again now:
"Family of teen stabbed at Sheffield school say 'our hearts are broken'"
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
From the outside it seems that their ultimate failure was to not offer a competing narrative. In a perfect justice system they’re not supposed to have to of course - if you undermine the prosecution case that’s supposed to be enough - but in a case like this one I think the jury probably believed that /someone/ was killing babies on that ward & if that was the case the most likely perpetrator was the one in the dock in front of them.
Without a competing narrative to explain the deaths, Letby’s conviction was inevitable.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
Assuming it's the Sheffield 15 year old, it's still on the front page of the BBC news website (although a fair way down). Given the age of the alleged perpetrator (also 15, I believe) there's probably very little they're allowed to publish at the moment.
No much on the newspaper front pages, to be fair (Express excepted). Should be headline news that a boy gets murdered at school, surely?
The problem is what can the school do about it - it’s a tragedy but the school has the dual problem of needing to teach the troublesome child and keep everyone else safe
Am I a touch odd in feeling very sorry for the perpetrators parents? As I do for the parents of the Southport killer.
Nope - I think we will find that the parents knew there were major problems and didn’t have anywhere near the level of support required
I'm acquainted with a family (through volunteer work*) where the eldest boy (13) recently took a screwdriver into school and was threatening people with it. The parents (well, mother, step-father works away from home during the week, father of this child not on the scene) were called to come and take him home. The mother then did a search of the garage/kitchen etc for anything else missing (negative) and then a search of the child's bedroom, which revealed a number of improvised weapons - shivs, essentially. She then called the police (she has other, younger children at home, who are step-siblings of the older child, who have been attacked by the older one - not with weapons - and feared for their safety). The police attended, and took statements from her, the child and the school, but concluded that there was no further action to be taken. I'm dubious on this - is threatening people in school with a weapon, even a screwdriver, not a crime? - but I can understand the motivation to seek help for the child rather than punishment. The difficulty is that the help is largely non-existent. The police referred to social services and, via them, to CAMHS. There's been contact, but not a lot else happening and CAMHS will have the usual long waiting lists. Hopefully this will go no further, but it's sadly easy to see how something like this spirals into young people getting killed or seriously injured.
*My involvement is that I know one of the younger step-siblings through voluntary work and, by extension, the mother. I've never had the dubious pleasure of meeting the child in question.
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
From the outside it seems that their ultimate failure was to not offer a competing narrative. In a perfect justice system they’re not supposed to have to of course - if you undermine the prosecution case that’s supposed to be enough - but in a case like this one I think the jury probably believed that /someone/ was killing babies on that ward & if that was the case the most likely perpetrator was the one in the dock in front of them.
Without a competing narrative to explain the deaths, Letby’s conviction was inevitable.
Might just be lawyers' lack of confidence in statistics - and not being sure they could win the arguments: you know the old rule, never introduce any topic you don't know the answer to.
Remember, plenty of people got done on the early DNA sequence evidence before defence lawyers got their collective act together on whether these coincidences were really coincidences or not.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
15, apologies. Reasons why it has been dropped by the media like BBC into, 'also in the news', you'd have to guess. Would have thought it should be dominating the headlines.
I have no idea, except there's a lot of other news around, and stabbings of children are sadly not that rare.
edited to add: the age of victim and perpetrator also limit reporting.
What's your guess?
Personally I think Charlie's trying a bit too hard here. "Why is no one reporting this?" only works as a troll in the first couple of hours, when no one has got around to reporting it yet. This was being reported everywhere some time ago.
The usual suspects (GBN etc) will be watching to see if they can make it an anti-Muslim or anti-immigrant narrative, as it is adjacent to a Mosque, from where someone was interviewed in at least one account.
There are also reports of a recent increase in ASB in the area, as commented on iirc for example the local MP Louise Haigh.
As it is, I think they will be going with "Why does Starmer allow this in our schools?" and maybe another outing for "Starmer Must Resign".
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
Is this panel overplaying its hand somewhat? By saying every single death was absolutely, definitely, positively the result of institutional neglect, it seems to be setting itself up as omniscient judge, jury and executioner while diving head first into a massive conspiracy theory. Can't help but think they're getting carried away.
Can't very well admit one death, can they?
But it works both ways. If the evidence is clearly shite on a number of deaths, then the prosecution's case collapses. Either someone else could have done it -and it's not the defence's job to say whom - or it's shite full stop and nobody at all did it.
I think we need a referendum on whether non-constitutional issues can be covered by referendums.
If approved, we'll have a referendum on whether a massive house building programme should happen in around 40% of constituencies.
The list of constituencies won't be announced before the first referendum, but will be before the second.
We will continue to do this with things like referendums on raising taxes on people with surnames in the first third of the alphabet etc until people understand the issues of direct democracy.
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
Is this panel overplaying its hand somewhat? By saying every single death was absolutely, definitely, positively the result of institutional neglect, it seems to be setting itself up as omniscient judge, jury and executioner while diving head first into a massive conspiracy theory. Can't help but think they're getting carried away.
Can't very well admit one death, can they?
But it works both ways. If the evidence is clearly shite on a number of deaths, then the prosecution's case collapses. Either someone else could have done it -and it's not the defence's job to say whom - or it's shite full stop and nobody at all did it.
I don't think that follows. She got done for seven counts of attempted murder, which is a very different thing.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
Assuming it's the Sheffield 15 year old, it's still on the front page of the BBC news website (although a fair way down). Given the age of the alleged perpetrator (also 15, I believe) there's probably very little they're allowed to publish at the moment.
No much on the newspaper front pages, to be fair (Express excepted). Should be headline news that a boy gets murdered at school, surely?
The problem is what can the school do about it - it’s a tragedy but the school has the dual problem of needing to teach the troublesome child and keep everyone else safe
Am I a touch odd in feeling very sorry for the perpetrators parents? As I do for the parents of the Southport killer.
Nope - I think we will find that the parents knew there were major problems and didn’t have anywhere near the level of support required
I'm acquainted with a family (through volunteer work*) where the eldest boy (13) recently took a screwdriver into school and was threatening people with it. The parents (well, mother, step-father works away from home during the week, father of this child not on the scene) were called to come and take him home. The mother then did a search of the garage/kitchen etc for anything else missing (negative) and then a search of the child's bedroom, which revealed a number of improvised weapons - shivs, essentially. She then called the police (she has other, younger children at home, who are step-siblings of the older child, who have been attacked by the older one - not with weapons - and feared for their safety). The police attended, and took statements from her, the child and the school, but concluded that there was no further action to be taken. I'm dubious on this - is threatening people in school with a weapon, even a screwdriver, not a crime? - but I can understand the motivation to seek help for the child rather than punishment. The difficulty is that the help is largely non-existent. The police referred to social services and, via them, to CAMHS. There's been contact, but not a lot else happening and CAMHS will have the usual long waiting lists. Hopefully this will go no further, but it's sadly easy to see how something like this spirals into young people getting killed or seriously injured.
*My involvement is that I know one of the younger step-siblings through voluntary work and, by extension, the mother. I've never had the dubious pleasure of meeting the child in question.
Does seem, from your narrative, that there may be multiple problems there. As you infer, very, very sad...... and risky ...... that CAMHS have a long waiting list.
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
From the outside it seems that their ultimate failure was to not offer a competing narrative. In a perfect justice system they’re not supposed to have to of course - if you undermine the prosecution case that’s supposed to be enough - but in a case like this one I think the jury probably believed that /someone/ was killing babies on that ward & if that was the case the most likely perpetrator was the one in the dock in front of them.
Without a competing narrative to explain the deaths, Letby’s conviction was inevitable.
More or less agree. On current evidence you have to tentatively conclude that the defence were unable to sustain one.
Whether the new narrative from today is pure PR hype or a real runner is not knowable at the moment. There remains a good deal to explain on several fronts. And as there are 14 or so counts, the new narrative has to demolish them all. This is not easy without a proper conspiracy theory.
So far my own view has been and still is that the juries were right. Any decent analysis has to start with two public documents: the Court of Appeal judgment and the sentencing remarks of the judge. they basically have to be completely wrong about everything.
it's also worth remembering the corroboration evidence.
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Because it would get expanded.
Fine, death penalty for murderers, then it would to move to rapists etc, where the criminal justice fails badly.
Imagine being placed on remand for rape, I wonder where your mind would go if you knew you might get executed.
Execution of political opponents comes next. How "political opponent" would be defined is interesting. Perhaps anyone who voted Starmer - Labour in GE 2024.
Follow So on this question of “doxing” of Musk gizmocrats, I was talking to staffers to today detailing one of the gizmocrats who is largely on his own rewriting the code base of one of the US governments most mission critical computer systems. And as it was described to me the staff programmers …
Josh Marshall @joshtpm.bsky.social · 9h 2/ who used to manage that code and system are sort of like helping him because they’re so terrified that he’s going to haywire, but also begging him to be careful etc. meanwhile they only know this guy as “Fred” (I’ve substituted a different name for now). So you’ve this crazy situation and …
Musk is driving a coach and fours through US law, for example giving his not-security-cleared tech bros in short trousers access to classified information and systems, with no lawful authority.
I think if a democratic USA comes out at the other end of this he will be for the legal high jump. Subject, maybe, to a pardon from Trump.
Presidential authority - ie, ability to issue pardons while personally being above the law - is a dangerous and gaping hole in US governance. Seems to mean Trump and his allies can do anything, however illegal, without any fear of a comeuppance later. The red danger light is blinking furiously.
The immunity nonsense is the invention of the current Supreme Court, with little or no basis in the constitution.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
15, apologies. Reasons why it has been dropped by the media like BBC into, 'also in the news', you'd have to guess. Would have thought it should be dominating the headlines.
I have no idea, except there's a lot of other news around, and stabbings of children are sadly not that rare.
edited to add: the age of victim and perpetrator also limit reporting.
What's your guess?
Personally I think Charlie's trying a bit too hard here. "Why is no one reporting this?" only works as a troll in the first couple of hours, when no one has got around to reporting it yet. This was being reported everywhere some time ago.
The usual suspects (GBN etc) will be watching to see if they can make it an anti-Muslim or anti-immigrant narrative, as it is adjacent to a Mosque, from where someone was interviewed in at least one account.
There are also reports of a recent increase in ASB in the area, as commented on iirc for example the local MP Louise Haigh.
As it is, I think they will be going with "Why does Starmer allow this in our schools?" and maybe another outing for "Starmer Must Resign".
I felt angry and sick when I clicked on one Tweet about the Southport sentencing, and the replies (mostly Blue tick) repeating this theory that Southport was a false flag attack using crisis actors.
All done so Sir Keir could smear (and imprison) anybody who doesn’t like immigration.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
@rcs1000 has pointed (repeatedly) that self lockdown rapidly occurred in countries that didn’t go the legalistic route.
“Disease passed from person to person? Hmmm… If I stay 10 feet away from everyone….”
It was happening here too. All three lockdowns were enforced after infections had already peaked.
As far as I can see, that is wrong. The first Covid wave in 2020, for example, peaked on 19 April with about 5,113,000 confirmed new cases in the UK. But lockdown was first declared by Johnson on 23 March and gained legal force on 26 March, which was well before the peak.
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
Is this panel overplaying its hand somewhat? By saying every single death was absolutely, definitely, positively the result of institutional neglect, it seems to be setting itself up as omniscient judge, jury and executioner while diving head first into a massive conspiracy theory. Can't help but think they're getting carried away.
Can't very well admit one death, can they?
But it works both ways. If the evidence is clearly shite on a number of deaths, then the prosecution's case collapses. Either someone else could have done it -and it's not the defence's job to say whom - or it's shite full stop and nobody at all did it.
I don't think that follows. She got done for seven counts of attempted murder, which is a very different thing.
But not independently of the other prosecutions, though, was it? The jury dynamics are very different in that situation. And the evidence was also statistical.
I really, really do not like the use of statistical evidence with known issues whjich has no expert defence offered. Clearly not tested properly in court - whatever the result might be is a different matter.
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Because it would get expanded.
Fine, death penalty for murderers, then it would to move to rapists etc, where the criminal justice fails badly.
Imagine being placed on remand for rape, I wonder where your mind would go if you knew you might get executed.
Execution of political opponents comes next. How "political opponent" would be defined is interesting. Perhaps anyone who voted Starmer - Labour in GE 2024.
If you believe in the "two-tier" justice conspiracy theory then you'd even madder to advocate for capital punishment.
British aid pays for private healthcare clinics in India, luxury hotels in South America and shopping malls in Mozambique. It’s often about a certain kind of ‘development’ for the 1%.
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
Is this panel overplaying its hand somewhat? By saying every single death was absolutely, definitely, positively the result of institutional neglect, it seems to be setting itself up as omniscient judge, jury and executioner while diving head first into a massive conspiracy theory. Can't help but think they're getting carried away.
Can't very well admit one death, can they?
But it works both ways. If the evidence is clearly shite on a number of deaths, then the prosecution's case collapses. Either someone else could have done it -and it's not the defence's job to say whom - or it's shite full stop and nobody at all did it.
I don't think that follows. She got done for seven counts of attempted murder, which is a very different thing.
But not independently of the other prosecutions, though, was it? The jury dynamics are very different in that situation. And the evidence was also statistical.
I really, really do not like the use of statistical evidence with known issues whjich has no expert defence offered. Clearly not tested properly in court - whatever the result might be is a different matter.
Do you think each case should have been held independently with separate juries?
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
Is this panel overplaying its hand somewhat? By saying every single death was absolutely, definitely, positively the result of institutional neglect, it seems to be setting itself up as omniscient judge, jury and executioner while diving head first into a massive conspiracy theory. Can't help but think they're getting carried away.
Can't very well admit one death, can they?
But it works both ways. If the evidence is clearly shite on a number of deaths, then the prosecution's case collapses. Either someone else could have done it -and it's not the defence's job to say whom - or it's shite full stop and nobody at all did it.
I was thinking more of the tone. Fine to say it's all cloaked in doubt so the convictions might be unsafe; it's quite another to say 'We're the Dream Team and we know as a point of fact that there's nothing to see here: it was all due to the hospital being crap'. That sort of bumptiousness is rather unscientific and may alienate as many as it will win round. Cooler heads should have managed their PR.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
@rcs1000 has pointed (repeatedly) that self lockdown rapidly occurred in countries that didn’t go the legalistic route.
“Disease passed from person to person? Hmmm… If I stay 10 feet away from everyone….”
It was happening here too. All three lockdowns were enforced after infections had already peaked.
As far as I can see, that is wrong. The first Covid wave in 2020, for example, peaked on 19 April with about 5,113,000 confirmed new cases in the UK. But lockdown was first declared by Johnson on 23 March and gained legal force on 26 March, which was well before the peak.
You're forgetting the incubation period.
No, I'm not. The incubation period of Covid averaged about a week, so the peak in infections was still well after lockdown was initiated. If that's the reason you are claiming otherwise, then you are seriously misinformed.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
15, apologies. Reasons why it has been dropped by the media like BBC into, 'also in the news', you'd have to guess. Would have thought it should be dominating the headlines.
I have no idea, except there's a lot of other news around, and stabbings of children are sadly not that rare.
edited to add: the age of victim and perpetrator also limit reporting.
What's your guess?
Personally I think Charlie's trying a bit too hard here. "Why is no one reporting this?" only works as a troll in the first couple of hours, when no one has got around to reporting it yet. This was being reported everywhere some time ago.
The usual suspects (GBN etc) will be watching to see if they can make it an anti-Muslim or anti-immigrant narrative, as it is adjacent to a Mosque, from where someone was interviewed in at least one account.
There are also reports of a recent increase in ASB in the area, as commented on iirc for example the local MP Louise Haigh.
As it is, I think they will be going with "Why does Starmer allow this in our schools?" and maybe another outing for "Starmer Must Resign".
Here are the papers for today. Only one mentions it at all on their front page - a 15 year old boy stabbed to death at school, it should be on more headlines that what actually makes some papers front page today. I'd suspect it will return to the headlines, with potential failures.
I'm not trying to hard. Or trolling (good try by the way). I mentioned it amongst two other points as for reasons why a certain number of people do not trust the government, police, legal system and media and how this is affecting polling.
Tomorrow we have local by-elections in Hyndburn, Tendring, Wokingham, and Medway. The first is a Lab defence, the second a Con defence, and the third a Lib Dem defence. In the case of Medway we have a Lab defence in one ward and a double Lab defence in another.
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
Is this panel overplaying its hand somewhat? By saying every single death was absolutely, definitely, positively the result of institutional neglect, it seems to be setting itself up as omniscient judge, jury and executioner while diving head first into a massive conspiracy theory. Can't help but think they're getting carried away.
Can't very well admit one death, can they?
But it works both ways. If the evidence is clearly shite on a number of deaths, then the prosecution's case collapses. Either someone else could have done it -and it's not the defence's job to say whom - or it's shite full stop and nobody at all did it.
I don't think that follows. She got done for seven counts of attempted murder, which is a very different thing.
But not independently of the other prosecutions, though, was it? The jury dynamics are very different in that situation. And the evidence was also statistical.
I really, really do not like the use of statistical evidence with known issues whjich has no expert defence offered. Clearly not tested properly in court - whatever the result might be is a different matter.
Do you think each case should have been held independently with separate juries?
As I understand it, that has always been a serious issue of fundamental legal principle. IANAL.
But if the evidence relies on multiple coincidences it's difficult for the prosecution not to do that. But by the same token it's not a great look for them to put forward analyses based on data with known issues (time card records not being reliable) or data which has had sections excised for no clear reasons. Or for the defence not to challenge that.
BTW, has anyone even considered the *cost* of expert witnesses as an issue for the defence?
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
15, apologies. Reasons why it has been dropped by the media like BBC into, 'also in the news', you'd have to guess. Would have thought it should be dominating the headlines.
I have no idea, except there's a lot of other news around, and stabbings of children are sadly not that rare.
edited to add: the age of victim and perpetrator also limit reporting.
What's your guess?
Personally I think Charlie's trying a bit too hard here. "Why is no one reporting this?" only works as a troll in the first couple of hours, when no one has got around to reporting it yet. This was being reported everywhere some time ago.
The usual suspects (GBN etc) will be watching to see if they can make it an anti-Muslim or anti-immigrant narrative, as it is adjacent to a Mosque, from where someone was interviewed in at least one account.
There are also reports of a recent increase in ASB in the area, as commented on iirc for example the local MP Louise Haigh.
As it is, I think they will be going with "Why does Starmer allow this in our schools?" and maybe another outing for "Starmer Must Resign".
I felt angry and sick when I clicked on one Tweet about the Southport sentencing, and the replies (mostly Blue tick) repeating this theory that Southport was a false flag attack using crisis actors.
All done so Sir Keir could smear (and imprison) anybody who doesn’t like immigration.
Occasionally having a pop at these is perhaps one of the few reasons I still post on Twitter.
The others being to comment back to some MAGA types (some do reply), to do my bit to wind up Elon gently, and also to watch for news which has not moved to Bluesky yet:
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
Is this panel overplaying its hand somewhat? By saying every single death was absolutely, definitely, positively the result of institutional neglect, it seems to be setting itself up as omniscient judge, jury and executioner while diving head first into a massive conspiracy theory. Can't help but think they're getting carried away.
Can't very well admit one death, can they?
But it works both ways. If the evidence is clearly shite on a number of deaths, then the prosecution's case collapses. Either someone else could have done it -and it's not the defence's job to say whom - or it's shite full stop and nobody at all did it.
Although the defence don't have the legal job of solving the case, they are perfectly entitled (such are the extensive rights of defendants) to both call evidence tending towards showing someone else did it, and doing so by name, and the lawyers are entitled, having established a basis however tenuous, to argue to the jury that the murders/attempted murders were actually done by X, or Y, Z or whoever.
Ditto they can call as much expert evidence as they like to show that there was no murder/attempt.
The defence did neither of these things, and they did so for reasons. Until you learn what those reasons are, we are much in the dark. The most likely reasons is that they were unable to do so.
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
Is this panel overplaying its hand somewhat? By saying every single death was absolutely, definitely, positively the result of institutional neglect, it seems to be setting itself up as omniscient judge, jury and executioner while diving head first into a massive conspiracy theory. Can't help but think they're getting carried away.
Can't very well admit one death, can they?
But it works both ways. If the evidence is clearly shite on a number of deaths, then the prosecution's case collapses. Either someone else could have done it -and it's not the defence's job to say whom - or it's shite full stop and nobody at all did it.
I was thinking more of the tone. Fine to say it's all cloaked in doubt so the convictions might be unsafe; it's quite another to say 'We're the Dream Team and we know as a point of fact that there's nothing to see here: it was all due to the hospital being crap'. That sort of bumptiousness is rather unscientific and may alienate as many as it will win round. Cooler heads should have managed their PR.
I looked up the Mirror piece.
"His claims were backed up today by Dr Lee, who said he and the panel of international medical experts have written thousands of peer-reviewed papers on the subject between them, whereas Dr Evans has written nothing.
‘This is the cream of the crop, the dream team of neonatology. You’re not going to find any better than this,’ he said."
In which case it's up to the prosecuting authorities to present some still better experts. PR is irrelevant.
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Because it would get expanded.
Fine, death penalty for murderers, then it would to move to rapists etc, where the criminal justice fails badly.
Imagine being placed on remand for rape, I wonder where your mind would go if you knew you might get executed.
Execution of political opponents comes next. How "political opponent" would be defined is interesting. Perhaps anyone who voted Starmer - Labour in GE 2024.
If you believe in the "two-tier" justice conspiracy theory then you'd even madder to advocate for capital punishment.
I'll be fine. No one knows what party I voted for at GE 2024, but return of the noose referendum fan, Leon? Oh dear....
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
Is this panel overplaying its hand somewhat? By saying every single death was absolutely, definitely, positively the result of institutional neglect, it seems to be setting itself up as omniscient judge, jury and executioner while diving head first into a massive conspiracy theory. Can't help but think they're getting carried away.
Can't very well admit one death, can they?
But it works both ways. If the evidence is clearly shite on a number of deaths, then the prosecution's case collapses. Either someone else could have done it -and it's not the defence's job to say whom - or it's shite full stop and nobody at all did it.
I was thinking more of the tone. Fine to say it's all cloaked in doubt so the convictions might be unsafe; it's quite another to say 'We're the Dream Team and we know as a point of fact that there's nothing to see here: it was all due to the hospital being crap'. That sort of bumptiousness is rather unscientific and may alienate as many as it will win round. Cooler heads should have managed their PR.
I looked up the Mirror piece.
"His claims were backed up today by Dr Lee, who said he and the panel of international medical experts have written thousands of peer-reviewed papers on the subject between them, whereas Dr Evans has written nothing.
‘This is the cream of the crop, the dream team of neonatology. You’re not going to find any better than this,’ he said."
In which case it's up to the prosecuting authorities to present some still better experts. PR is irrelevant.
Professor Sir Roy Meadow would have been part of a dream team at one point.
So many people do not understand statistics, and in this instance it had truly horrific consequences.
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
Is this panel overplaying its hand somewhat? By saying every single death was absolutely, definitely, positively the result of institutional neglect, it seems to be setting itself up as omniscient judge, jury and executioner while diving head first into a massive conspiracy theory. Can't help but think they're getting carried away.
Can't very well admit one death, can they?
But it works both ways. If the evidence is clearly shite on a number of deaths, then the prosecution's case collapses. Either someone else could have done it -and it's not the defence's job to say whom - or it's shite full stop and nobody at all did it.
Although the defence don't have the legal job of solving the case, they are perfectly entitled (such are the extensive rights of defendants) to both call evidence tending towards showing someone else did it, and doing so by name, and the lawyers are entitled, having established a basis however tenuous, to argue to the jury that the murders/attempted murders were actually done by X, or Y, Z or whoever.
Ditto they can call as much expert evidence as they like to show that there was no murder/attempt.
The defence did neither of these things, and they did so for reasons. Until you learn what those reasons are, we are much in the dark. The most likely reasons is that they were unable to do so.
Hmm, quite. But if they try to blame someone else, then *they* get attacked on *their* own stats - but the argument can be that the stats were crap anyway, and therefore it would be illogical to blame someone else (unless on the reductio ab absurdum principle of "look, the stats can blame the head doc, or the ward cleaner" without a serious accusation). it's not as if there were only 2 or 3 other folk in the ward.
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
Is this panel overplaying its hand somewhat? By saying every single death was absolutely, definitely, positively the result of institutional neglect, it seems to be setting itself up as omniscient judge, jury and executioner while diving head first into a massive conspiracy theory. Can't help but think they're getting carried away.
Can't very well admit one death, can they?
But it works both ways. If the evidence is clearly shite on a number of deaths, then the prosecution's case collapses. Either someone else could have done it -and it's not the defence's job to say whom - or it's shite full stop and nobody at all did it.
I was thinking more of the tone. Fine to say it's all cloaked in doubt so the convictions might be unsafe; it's quite another to say 'We're the Dream Team and we know as a point of fact that there's nothing to see here: it was all due to the hospital being crap'. That sort of bumptiousness is rather unscientific and may alienate as many as it will win round. Cooler heads should have managed their PR.
I looked up the Mirror piece.
"His claims were backed up today by Dr Lee, who said he and the panel of international medical experts have written thousands of peer-reviewed papers on the subject between them, whereas Dr Evans has written nothing.
‘This is the cream of the crop, the dream team of neonatology. You’re not going to find any better than this,’ he said."
In which case it's up to the prosecuting authorities to present some still better experts. PR is irrelevant.
Professor Sir Roy Meadow would have been part of a dream team at one point.
So many people do not understand statistics, and in this instance it hard truly horrific consequences.
He wouldn't have been. He *was*, in the infamous case in which he was involved. All the more reason to have a defence challenge.
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
Is this panel overplaying its hand somewhat? By saying every single death was absolutely, definitely, positively the result of institutional neglect, it seems to be setting itself up as omniscient judge, jury and executioner while diving head first into a massive conspiracy theory. Can't help but think they're getting carried away.
Can't very well admit one death, can they?
But it works both ways. If the evidence is clearly shite on a number of deaths, then the prosecution's case collapses. Either someone else could have done it -and it's not the defence's job to say whom - or it's shite full stop and nobody at all did it.
I was thinking more of the tone. Fine to say it's all cloaked in doubt so the convictions might be unsafe; it's quite another to say 'We're the Dream Team and we know as a point of fact that there's nothing to see here: it was all due to the hospital being crap'. That sort of bumptiousness is rather unscientific and may alienate as many as it will win round. Cooler heads should have managed their PR.
I looked up the Mirror piece.
"His claims were backed up today by Dr Lee, who said he and the panel of international medical experts have written thousands of peer-reviewed papers on the subject between them, whereas Dr Evans has written nothing.
‘This is the cream of the crop, the dream team of neonatology. You’re not going to find any better than this,’ he said."
In which case it's up to the prosecuting authorities to present some still better experts. PR is irrelevant.
Professor Sir Roy Meadow would have been part of a dream team at one point.
So many people do not understand statistics, and in this instance it hard truly horrific consequences.
Do you think there's been a miscarriage of justice?
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
Is this panel overplaying its hand somewhat? By saying every single death was absolutely, definitely, positively the result of institutional neglect, it seems to be setting itself up as omniscient judge, jury and executioner while diving head first into a massive conspiracy theory. Can't help but think they're getting carried away.
Can't very well admit one death, can they?
But it works both ways. If the evidence is clearly shite on a number of deaths, then the prosecution's case collapses. Either someone else could have done it -and it's not the defence's job to say whom - or it's shite full stop and nobody at all did it.
I was thinking more of the tone. Fine to say it's all cloaked in doubt so the convictions might be unsafe; it's quite another to say 'We're the Dream Team and we know as a point of fact that there's nothing to see here: it was all due to the hospital being crap'. That sort of bumptiousness is rather unscientific and may alienate as many as it will win round. Cooler heads should have managed their PR.
I looked up the Mirror piece.
"His claims were backed up today by Dr Lee, who said he and the panel of international medical experts have written thousands of peer-reviewed papers on the subject between them, whereas Dr Evans has written nothing.
‘This is the cream of the crop, the dream team of neonatology. You’re not going to find any better than this,’ he said."
In which case it's up to the prosecuting authorities to present some still better experts. PR is irrelevant.
Professor Sir Roy Meadow would have been part of a dream team at one point.
So many people do not understand statistics, and in this instance it hard truly horrific consequences.
Do you think there's been a miscarriage of justice?
I haven’t followed the case/evidence in detail to make that call.
Polls on any given issue only really mean much if the said issue is particularly salient. The electoral system clearly isn't, and indeed it wasn't much when there was a referendum on the issue in 2011.
Socialists often point out polls showing overwhelming public support for nationalising various industries. Ultra tough-on-crime types often point out polls showing strong support for capital punishment. Again, these issues aren't particularly salient and do not necessarily indicate the levels of support if they did become salient and/or referendums were held on them.
Farage should offer a referendum on capital punishment
“Let the people decide”
Who could argue with that?
Because it would get expanded.
Fine, death penalty for murderers, then it would to move to rapists etc, where the criminal justice fails badly.
Imagine being placed on remand for rape, I wonder where your mind would go if you knew you might get executed.
Execution of political opponents comes next. How "political opponent" would be defined is interesting. Perhaps anyone who voted Starmer - Labour in GE 2024.
If you believe in the "two-tier" justice conspiracy theory then you'd even madder to advocate for capital punishment.
I'll be fine. No one knows what party I voted for at GE 2024, but return of the noose referendum fan, Leon? Oh dear....
Hoist(ed) by his own petard?
It's difficult to know which revolution would be more dangerous for Leon. Globe-trotting international elite living in Camden; alt-right conspiracy theorist writing in conservative magazine.
The knapping would be a death sentence in a Christian theocracy too.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
15, apologies. Reasons why it has been dropped by the media like BBC into, 'also in the news', you'd have to guess. Would have thought it should be dominating the headlines.
I have no idea, except there's a lot of other news around, and stabbings of children are sadly not that rare.
edited to add: the age of victim and perpetrator also limit reporting.
What's your guess?
Personally I think Charlie's trying a bit too hard here. "Why is no one reporting this?" only works as a troll in the first couple of hours, when no one has got around to reporting it yet. This was being reported everywhere some time ago.
The usual suspects (GBN etc) will be watching to see if they can make it an anti-Muslim or anti-immigrant narrative, as it is adjacent to a Mosque, from where someone was interviewed in at least one account.
There are also reports of a recent increase in ASB in the area, as commented on iirc for example the local MP Louise Haigh.
As it is, I think they will be going with "Why does Starmer allow this in our schools?" and maybe another outing for "Starmer Must Resign".
Here are the papers for today. Only one mentions it at all on their front page - a 15 year old boy stabbed to death at school, it should be on more headlines that what actually makes some papers front page today. I'd suspect it will return to the headlines, with potential failures.
I'm not trying to hard. Or trolling (good try by the way). I mentioned it amongst two other points as for reasons why a certain number of people do not trust the government, police, legal system and media and how this is affecting polling.
Come on, it’s hardly a ‘SNP to ban all cats’ earth shaker.
Everything's that happened with Farage and Trump has been totally predictable once the hyper-liberals took charge and started doing things like open borders which about 95% of people don't support.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
15, apologies. Reasons why it has been dropped by the media like BBC into, 'also in the news', you'd have to guess. Would have thought it should be dominating the headlines.
I have no idea, except there's a lot of other news around, and stabbings of children are sadly not that rare.
edited to add: the age of victim and perpetrator also limit reporting.
What's your guess?
Personally I think Charlie's trying a bit too hard here. "Why is no one reporting this?" only works as a troll in the first couple of hours, when no one has got around to reporting it yet. This was being reported everywhere some time ago.
The usual suspects (GBN etc) will be watching to see if they can make it an anti-Muslim or anti-immigrant narrative, as it is adjacent to a Mosque, from where someone was interviewed in at least one account.
There are also reports of a recent increase in ASB in the area, as commented on iirc for example the local MP Louise Haigh.
As it is, I think they will be going with "Why does Starmer allow this in our schools?" and maybe another outing for "Starmer Must Resign".
Here are the papers for today. Only one mentions it at all on their front page - a 15 year old boy stabbed to death at school, it should be on more headlines that what actually makes some papers front page today. I'd suspect it will return to the headlines, with potential failures.
I'm not trying to hard. Or trolling (good try by the way). I mentioned it amongst two other points as for reasons why a certain number of people do not trust the government, police, legal system and media and how this is affecting polling.
I appreciate the reply, even though we disagree.
Here is the Breakfast Programme on the main BBC Channel - BBC1 - this morning.
It is item number one on their opening news report.
Other bad news: Senator Susan Collins is going to support Tusli Gabbard’s nomination.
I blame Covid. In the first Trump administration the lunatics hadn't completely taken over the asylum like they have now. We all know people who went down rabbit holes during lockdown, and never came back. Happened to plenty of us ourselves to a certain extent.
I'm coming round to the idea that *none* of the lockdowns were worth it. Yes, more people would have died, health systems would have been overwhelmed, and elected officials would have been punished for that, governments may have fallen. But suspending people's freedoms to such an degree has radicalised large numbers of people in a way that is not healthy for democracy. Why are so many young people willing to say democracy isn't all that, and maybe they'd prefer a dictatorship? They've already been kept under house arrest in a democracy.
I agree. My trust in government evaporated with covid, and I am government (well, public sector). Example: I used to favour road pricing as a better and more effective solution to road tax (the externalities of you driving 10 miles down empty country roads in North Yorkshire are rather lower than you driving ten miles across Greater Manchester, and the public transport alternatives less apparent, so seemed a good solution to me) - but now there's no way I'd want to give government that level of information over my movements. I just don't trust them any more.
A significant and growing number of people have no faith in government, policing, legal system or the media. It's reflected in the current polling.
Hardly surprising when this week we have a woman in court because she is being forced to get changed with a man or lose her job. A man is arrested for burning a book and then has his name, address and full date of birth plastered on social media by the police, putting a big arrow on his back. (Amazing what the police are willing to reveal when they want to.) A 14 year boy is stabbed to death in school and it barely makes the news, because....reasons.
Which 14-year-old boy and what ....reasons?
15, apologies. Reasons why it has been dropped by the media like BBC into, 'also in the news', you'd have to guess. Would have thought it should be dominating the headlines.
A quick arrest probably means a quick charge, when it becomes sub judice. The age of the alleged perpetrator means he cannot be identified. The news is dominated by Trump and trade, but the stabbing is still third on my BBC news page, but has moved on from the deed to its aftermath:-
One thing I would say about the Lucy Letby case is that my father has followed the case with interest (given his professional background) and one thing bugs him about the case.
The prosecution made a big thing about Lucy Letby being on shift when the babies died but that in his view is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
A good defence team should have been able to point out correlation doesn’t imply causation.
One thing I would say about the Lucy Letby case is that my father has followed the case with interest (given his professional background) and one thing bugs him about the case.
The prosecution made a big thing about Lucy Letby being on shift when the babies died but that in his view is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
A good defence team should have been able to point out correlation doesn’t imply causation.
It is worse than your father imagines – the police and prosecution excluded deaths where Letby was not on duty.
One thing I would say about the Lucy Letby case is that my father has followed the case with interest (given his professional background) and one thing bugs him about the case.
The prosecution made a big thing about Lucy Letby being on shift when the babies died but that in his view is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
A good defence team should have been able to point out correlation doesn’t imply causation.
Obviously, it's physically possible for anyone to have committed such a crime, but I'd have thought that establishing that she was on shift for the cases being attributed to her was a key starting point for the prosecution.
I see the Lucy Letby story is dominating the airwaves again.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
It's either her or one hell of a cover up job.
Quite.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
Is this panel overplaying its hand somewhat? By saying every single death was absolutely, definitely, positively the result of institutional neglect, it seems to be setting itself up as omniscient judge, jury and executioner while diving head first into a massive conspiracy theory. Can't help but think they're getting carried away.
Can't very well admit one death, can they?
But it works both ways. If the evidence is clearly shite on a number of deaths, then the prosecution's case collapses. Either someone else could have done it -and it's not the defence's job to say whom - or it's shite full stop and nobody at all did it.
I was thinking more of the tone. Fine to say it's all cloaked in doubt so the convictions might be unsafe; it's quite another to say 'We're the Dream Team and we know as a point of fact that there's nothing to see here: it was all due to the hospital being crap'. That sort of bumptiousness is rather unscientific and may alienate as many as it will win round. Cooler heads should have managed their PR.
I looked up the Mirror piece.
"His claims were backed up today by Dr Lee, who said he and the panel of international medical experts have written thousands of peer-reviewed papers on the subject between them, whereas Dr Evans has written nothing.
‘This is the cream of the crop, the dream team of neonatology. You’re not going to find any better than this,’ he said."
In which case it's up to the prosecuting authorities to present some still better experts. PR is irrelevant.
Professor Sir Roy Meadow would have been part of a dream team at one point.
So many people do not understand statistics, and in this instance it hard truly horrific consequences.
Do you think there's been a miscarriage of justice?
If there is no actual evidence of a crime being committed notwithstanding Letby being convicted on the basis of her being on shift at the same time, I would say that a miscarriage of Justice is staring us in the face.
One thing I would say about the Lucy Letby case is that my father has followed the case with interest (given his professional background) and one thing bugs him about the case.
The prosecution made a big thing about Lucy Letby being on shift when the babies died but that in his view is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
A good defence team should have been able to point out correlation doesn’t imply causation.
It is worse than your father imagines – the police and prosecution excluded deaths where Letby was not on duty.
You think she should have been charged with deaths that the prosecution didn't think she had committed?
British aid pays for private healthcare clinics in India, luxury hotels in South America and shopping malls in Mozambique. It’s often about a certain kind of ‘development’ for the 1%.
British aid pays for private healthcare clinics in India, luxury hotels in South America and shopping malls in Mozambique. It’s often about a certain kind of ‘development’ for the 1%.
Comments
He was quite clear as to the damage to democracy and rule of law that he intended to do and he is going about it rapidly.
It is very very sad and leaves remaining democracies incredibly exposed to similar.
We can only hope enough americans come to their senses to stop this and rebuild in four years, forcing him out of office when he refuses to leave in Jan 2029.
Will there be anything left worth rebuilding?
"This is the aid that Zelensky himself said the other day has gone mostly to American bureaucracy rather than to actually doing the job it was supposed to do."
was not about the 40 billion dollars of USAID given to Ukraine, the bulk of which has gone to pay the wages and pensions etc of Ukrainian public sector employees. This is what I am complaining about. Your standards used to be much higher.
Fine, death penalty for murderers, then it would to move to rapists etc, where the criminal justice fails badly.
Imagine being placed on remand for rape, I wonder where your mind would go if you knew you might get executed.
No much on the newspaper front pages, to be fair (Express excepted). Should be headline news that a boy gets murdered at school, surely?
And yet the GOP and Trump - who you support - cost countless Ukrainian lives when they withheld weapons from Ukraine for months last year.
Be very careful that in your quest to see US government money well spent, you do not fall in with the crowd who use 'waste' as an excuse not to give Ukraine anything.
I said where the death penalty was on the cards juries would move the benchmark for conviction from beyond a reasonable doubt to 100% unimpeachable proof.
A bit like those Brexiteers moaning that leaving the EU allows the government to apply VAT to private school fees.
quick internet comes up with this (referring to 2023 I think)
Last year, 244 people in England and Wales tragically died after being assaulted with a knife. Of these, 32 were children
though I suppose a stabbing at school is more newsworthy than elsewhere.
Just wondered what is the connection between the amount of reporting on this and people having no faith in government?
Vat on school fees is because Labour members wanted it - the precursor was done by the Bozo.
So unless you wish to blame Bozo for VAT on school fees we can’t blame Farage’s dislike for the ECHR if capital punishment reappeared
edited to add: the age of victim and perpetrator also limit reporting.
What's your guess?
How are you going to prevent schoolkids giving Covid to their parents, or their grandparent who lives in the same household in your non-lockdown world? You’re not, which means in turn that the inevitable outcome would have been the collapse of the NHS as it became overwhelmed with Covid cases & the Covid death rate would probably have doubled.
As it was things were touch and go - I’ve talked to respiratory consultants around where I live & they were absolutely flat out, with no spare capacity whatsoever having dredged up every bit of healthcare support available & running the people involved into the ground. Any further serious cases would have simply been sent to the Nightingale tent hospitals to die (which is what they were for of course).
Lockdowns were the least worst option available to the government at the time.
Out of curiosity did Rupert Lowe and Richard Tice call for her to be executed?
Not relevant, but we executed people whilst in the ECHR, and could have done so until 1985 had we wanted, when the ECHR adopted a protocol banning it.
This compares very starkly with how, for example, Victorian newspapers could report, speculate and theorise.
I do think her original defence team employed a poor strategy.
The ones of will and Kate were iirc very long lens intrusions into privacy whilst they were on holiday.
eg of Kate topless in a private borrowed residence in the S of France by continental (ie not regulated here) photogs from half a mile away.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn4zgq4qz7jo
But anything else, particularly emotive issues like capital punishment, right to die, pineapple on pizzas. Emphatically NO!
She wouldn’t be the first nurse to have been prosecuted for a statistical co-incidence if that turns out to be the real story.
Afterall MPs and peers voted down Brexit for 3 years after the 2016 Leave win in the EU referendum, only the Conservative majority at the 2019 general election Boris won got Brexit done not the referendum itself
Private Eye's speculation that they were sure they had a goode enough defence so needn't bother with their evidence belongs in the land of unicorns.
We have no idea; based on what has so far been made public it does not appear that Letby herself is foregoing her continuing right to keep all those matters confidential. Once attacked, her former legal team have a right of reply. Wait and see.
"Family of teen stabbed at Sheffield school say 'our hearts are broken'"
Without a competing narrative to explain the deaths, Letby’s conviction was inevitable.
*My involvement is that I know one of the younger step-siblings through voluntary work and, by extension, the mother. I've never had the dubious pleasure of meeting the child in question.
Remember, plenty of people got done on the early DNA sequence evidence before defence lawyers got their collective act together on whether these coincidences were really coincidences or not.
This is everywhere. BBC, we know about.
Mail
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14355901/Named-pupil-stabbed-death-playground-Sheffield.html
Telegraph
https://archive.is/20250204002329/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/03/boy-of-15-seriously-injured-after-stabbing-at-school/
This was Sky News yesterday evening:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oijX1suWemQ
Here are some people trying to make it fit their pre-conceived pitchforks, in the replies:
https://x.com/cheesedoff3/status/1886413453947981933
eg
JoannaG @JoG1WY19h
Catholic school. Let me guess? The culprit is neither English nor catholic?
https://x.com/JoG1WY/status/1886451489339548143
The usual suspects (GBN etc) will be watching to see if they can make it an anti-Muslim or anti-immigrant narrative, as it is adjacent to a Mosque, from where someone was interviewed in at least one account.
There are also reports of a recent increase in ASB in the area, as commented on iirc for example the local MP Louise Haigh.
As it is, I think they will be going with "Why does Starmer allow this in our schools?" and maybe another outing for "Starmer Must Resign".
But it works both ways. If the evidence is clearly shite on a number of deaths, then the prosecution's case collapses. Either someone else could have done it -and it's not the defence's job to say whom - or it's shite full stop and nobody at all did it.
If approved, we'll have a referendum on whether a massive house building programme should happen in around 40% of constituencies.
The list of constituencies won't be announced before the first referendum, but will be before the second.
We will continue to do this with things like referendums on raising taxes on people with surnames in the first third of the alphabet etc until people understand the issues of direct democracy.
Whether the new narrative from today is pure PR hype or a real runner is not knowable at the moment. There remains a good deal to explain on several fronts. And as there are 14 or so counts, the new narrative has to demolish them all. This is not easy without a proper conspiracy theory.
So far my own view has been and still is that the juries were right. Any decent analysis has to start with two public documents: the Court of Appeal judgment and the sentencing remarks of the judge. they basically have to be completely wrong about everything.
it's also worth remembering the corroboration evidence.
Anne Applebaum @anneapplebaum.bsky.social
·
6m
terrifying thread
Josh Marshall
@joshtpm.bsky.social
Follow
So on this question of “doxing” of Musk gizmocrats, I was talking to staffers to today detailing one of the gizmocrats who is largely on his own rewriting the code base of one of the US governments most mission critical computer systems. And as it was described to me the staff programmers …
Josh Marshall @joshtpm.bsky.social
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9h
2/ who used to manage that code and system are sort of like helping him because they’re so terrified that he’s going to haywire, but also begging him to be careful etc. meanwhile they only know this guy as “Fred” (I’ve substituted a different name for now). So you’ve this crazy situation and …
https://bsky.app/profile/joshtpm.bsky.social/post/3lhczbvfn7k2m
All done so Sir Keir could smear (and imprison) anybody who doesn’t like immigration.
I really, really do not like the use of statistical evidence with known issues whjich has no expert defence offered. Clearly not tested properly in court - whatever the result might be is a different matter.
This was such an eye-opening conversation.
British aid pays for private healthcare clinics in India, luxury hotels in South America and shopping malls in Mozambique. It’s often about a certain kind of ‘development’ for the 1%.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly52m78gzro
I'm not trying to hard. Or trolling (good try by the way). I mentioned it amongst two other points as for reasons why a certain number of people do not trust the government, police, legal system and media and how this is affecting polling.
But if the evidence relies on multiple coincidences it's difficult for the prosecution not to do that. But by the same token it's not a great look for them to put forward analyses based on data with known issues (time card records not being reliable) or data which has had sections excised for no clear reasons. Or for the defence not to challenge that.
BTW, has anyone even considered the *cost* of expert witnesses as an issue for the defence?
The others being to comment back to some MAGA types (some do reply), to do my bit to wind up Elon gently, and also to watch for news which has not moved to Bluesky yet:
Matt Wardman - @mattwardman.bsky.social @mattwardman·23h
Tesla Sales down 2/3 in France.
Oooops.
What happened?
https://x.com/mattwardman/status/1886405312183246958
I'm pretty much shadow banned, though.
Ditto they can call as much expert evidence as they like to show that there was no murder/attempt.
The defence did neither of these things, and they did so for reasons. Until you learn what those reasons are, we are much in the dark. The most likely reasons is that they were unable to do so.
"His claims were backed up today by Dr Lee, who said he and the panel of international medical experts have written thousands of peer-reviewed papers on the subject between them, whereas Dr Evans has written nothing.
‘This is the cream of the crop, the dream team of neonatology. You’re not going to find any better than this,’ he said."
In which case it's up to the prosecuting authorities to present some still better experts. PR is irrelevant.
Hoist(ed) by his own petard?
So many people do not understand statistics, and in this instance it had truly horrific consequences.
The knapping would be a death sentence in a Christian theocracy too.
Here is the Breakfast Programme on the main BBC Channel - BBC1 - this morning.
It is item number one on their opening news report.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0027mqr/breakfast-04022025
I( just don't believe that this is suppressed, and I think the evidence backs me up.
Stabbed teen's family say 'our hearts are broken'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj31xevkkyo
The same is true of the ITV News page.
The prosecution made a big thing about Lucy Letby being on shift when the babies died but that in his view is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
A good defence team should have been able to point out correlation doesn’t imply causation.
Especially since they gave out further identifying information, it seems.