Farewell to the year with two massive elections – politicalbetting.com
Options
Comments
-
Just another part of the gradual change in the country to a medieval shithole, we are importing all the crap you can imagine and shedloads of people who do not like us and want to change the country to be like the shitholes they left behind.Cookie said:
Agreed, but isn't this news all about ten years old? We've known about this - and all the other places where it's happened - and it was met with a weary "yebbut racism" by those in power and nothing happened or ever will.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.0 -
I agree entirely with this. I just query one thing, which may seem trivial but maybe isn't.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
Cyclefree constantly says "we" do or allow this and that abominable thing. "We" means "I and others".
Well, I for one don't think that Cyclefree does any of those bad things that are said to be done or not done by "we". And there are lots of other people who don't either.0 -
Season’s Greetings to you and allOmnium said:
It's been a long time since there was proper snow in London. I have a recollection of a bus trying to skid and slide its way up Piccadilly - may have been early 90s.IanB2 said:
Even for central London, come SundayDecrepiterJohnL said:
Happy New Year to all PBers, and a big pat on the head of 'for scale'
14 -
"We", in this context, is presumably "the country as a whole". What our politicians do, they do in our name because we vote for them.algarkirk said:
I agree entirely with this. I just query one thing, which may seem trivial but maybe isn't.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
Cyclefree constantly says "we" do or allow this and that abominable thing. "We" means "I and others".
Well, I for one don't think that Cyclefree does any of those bad things that are said to be done or not done by "we". And there are lots of other people who don't either.1 -
Oh, Gaetz only did statutory rape, used prostitutes regularly, took vast amounts of drugs, broke campaign expenses law and lied to the passport service. That is, indeed, not as bad as murder. So, sure, let’s go back to plan A and make him Attorney General. That makes perfect sense, William. You’re right, William.williamglenn said:
Is statutory rape a comparable crime to torture and murder?bondegezou said:
Elon Musk said Matt Gaetz would be a great Attorney General. This indeed does not suggest that Musk actually cares much about the treatment of young girls who are raped.JosiasJessop said:
If it is a 'defining issue' it will only be because Musk is race-baiting for his mate Farage.williamglenn said:
I think it will be a defining issue for the UK in 2025.JosiasJessop said:
What do you think? If so, name names.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
https://x.com/cdp1882/status/1874425677807751298
No police officer or government employee has ever been imprisoned for their gross misconduct in dealing with the grooming gangs horror.
But I’ve got plans to expose many of them in 2025 and reveal some of the senior leaders who failed to tackle the atrocity. Stay tuned.
And you're slurping up the hate.
(And no, I am not defending the shits who committed the crimes; or the people who covered it up. But if you think Musk is making these comments from a good place, then I've got a Hyperloop to sell you.)0 -
My evidence is that you are regurgitating the language of MAGA conspiracies.xyzxyzxyz said:
Where is your evidence?bondegezou said:
Oh God, not another person who’s swallowed all the MAGA conspiracies…xyzxyzxyz said:
You have described the Biden crime family!LostPassword said:I've always maintained that Trump was primarily a grifter, in politics for the money he could get out of it, and therefore with no fixed ideology as such. So I feel a certain grim satisfaction in catching up with the news that Trump has reversed his policy on banning tiktok, because one of his larger donors owns a stake in the company.
In a few weeks time the President of the United States will be an individual who is determined to sell himself and his administration to the highest bidder. That's the guiding principle we should expect to see followed, and not mistake anything as part of a coherent ideology on isolationism, nationalism, populism, whatever. He will take money and do a u-turn.1 -
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.5 -
...
A full public enquiry can and should be used like Stephen Lawrence, to reshape policing. Get rid of every bit of useless shit of the past 20 years and go back to nicking criminals without fear or favour.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.0 -
Probably one of the poorest takes on the inaction over Rotherham
As we’re still on the subject.
https://x.com/holland_tom/status/563401300717871104?s=610 -
I wouldn't say nothing has been done. Apparently, many of the victims were put on risk registers - so that they are carefully monitored if they have children. So that the children can be taken into care, if judged as "at risk".Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
So there's that.0 -
The accusation of fomenting hatred is the last refuge of a scoundrel. It's used to give people who want to brush issues under the carpet the false belief that they hold the moral high ground.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.1 -
We don't believe children or we fear talking to those of others, fearing we lack the skills to do so and the courage to act on what they say, because we worry about the wrath of the adults - who are all too more believable.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
So we shrug and move on.1 -
Some of this probably lay behind the riots this summer. But it seems the government is content to simply blame far-right thugs and move on.Cookie said:
Agreed, but isn't this news all about ten years old? We've known about this - and all the other places where it's happened - and it was met with a weary "yebbut racism" by those in power and nothing happened or ever will.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.1 -
https://x.com/cdp1882/status/1874529816982265894Luckyguy1983 said:...
A full public enquiry can and should be used like Stephen Lawrence, to reshape policing. Get rid of every bit of useless shit of the past 20 years and go back to nicking criminals without fear or favour.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
Exclusive: Labour has rejected Oldham Council's request for a government inquiry into grooming gangs.
GB News has seen a letter from Safeguarding Minister Jess Phillips urging the council to organise their own inquiry.0 -
People like @bondegezou typify establishment thinking on this.williamglenn said:
The accusation of fomenting hatred is the last refuge of a scoundrel. It's used to give people who want to brush issues under the carpet the false belief that they hold the moral high ground.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
Indeed, the bloke is establishment and couldn't be more of a cliché if he tried.1 -
I've lost faith that bien pensant thinkers will ever be able to get their heads around issues like this, or modify their views.Taz said:Probably one of the poorest takes on the inaction over Rotherham
As we’re still on the subject.
https://x.com/holland_tom/status/563401300717871104?s=61
They fear it attacks fundamental tenets of their political faith, so it's a forlorn home.1 -
In 'oops, we may have gone too far this time' news.
I'm sure the JC will have learnt its lesson.
0 -
That's where the Church of England scandals don't quite fit the same template, but in an informative way.Casino_Royale said:
We don't believe children or we fear talking to those of others, fearing we lack the skills to do so and the courage to act on what they say, because we worry about the wrath of the adults - who are all too more believable.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
So we shrug and move on.
For whatever reasons, the victims tended to be troubled young men, not troubled young women. But with the same power imbalance, and the same fear of confronting the perpetrators.
And if the common factor is that will-to-power, then perhaps it's necessary to question the motives of those who point to some scandals and not others.2 -
Tommy Robinson talks a lot about Rotherham in order to foment hatred.williamglenn said:
The accusation of fomenting hatred is the last refuge of a scoundrel. It's used to give people who want to brush issues under the carpet the false belief that they hold the moral high ground.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
What part of that is untrue?1 -
Foment. Oddly I agree about Islam not being the core of this issue, but you, Cyclefree and others are very much missing what is the key element, which is the utter impunity with which members of certain communities perpetrated these crimes, due to the authorities actively protecting them for the sake of community relations. That is what led to the epic proportions of the abuse - our own authorities and their fetishisation of community relations above all other considerations.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.0 -
It's surprising how often seemingly 'good' people can do bad, or even evil, acts, and convince themselves that they are doing noble acts, or (say) God's work. They're kidding themselves in ways that are often all too visible to people observing events. But the people themselves often double down - because believing you are good and noble and misunderstood is easier than saying you've made a hideous mistake, or performed a deliberate act with monstrous results. And you explain your acts to others as being 'noble'.Taz said:Probably one of the poorest takes on the inaction over Rotherham
As we’re still on the subject.
https://x.com/holland_tom/status/563401300717871104?s=61
There's also the path of least resistance, which is often the road to Hell. You are faced with an option that appears moral, but may cause immediate problems for yourself or your career. Or another option that might be immoral, but is less likely to cause you problems. The easy choice is to do the wrong thing.0 -
You mean the Catholic Church and the Church of England, for example?Luckyguy1983 said:
Foment. Oddly I agree about Islam not being the core of this issue, but you, Cyclefree and others are very much missing what is the key element, which is the utter impunity with which of members of certain communities perpetrated these crimes, due to the authorities actively protecting them for the sake of community relations. That is what led to the epic proportions of the abuse - our own authorities and their fetishisation of community relations above all other considerations.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.1 -
Robinson focuses on one part of the problem but not the sexualisation of young girls in our culture.bondegezou said:
Tommy Robinson talks a lot about Rotherham in order to foment hatred.williamglenn said:
The accusation of fomenting hatred is the last refuge of a scoundrel. It's used to give people who want to brush issues under the carpet the false belief that they hold the moral high ground.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
What part of that is untrue?0 -
I always get “foment” wrong.Luckyguy1983 said:
Foment. Oddly I agree about Islam not being the core of this issue, but you, Cyclefree and others are very much missing what is the key element, which is the utter impunity with which of members of certain communities perpetrated these crimes, due to the authorities actively protecting them for the sake of community relations. That is what led to the epic proportions of the abuse - our own authorities and their fetishisation of community relations above all other considerations.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
There was a problem in Rotherham and some other places that some in authority didn’t act so as to preserve community relations. There was also a problem in Rotherham and *many* other places of not believing the victims and seeing the victims as responsible, believing the abusers, and just wanting to avoid difficult situations.
I don’t think that a “fetishisation of community relations” led to the abuse. The abusers’ behaviour led to the abuse.0 -
"Robinson" is a pseudonym - not a legal name change.bondegezou said:
Tommy Robinson talks a lot about Rotherham in order to foment hatred.williamglenn said:
The accusation of fomenting hatred is the last refuge of a scoundrel. It's used to give people who want to brush issues under the carpet the false belief that they hold the moral high ground.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
What part of that is untrue?
So "Stephen Yaxley-Lennon talks a lot about Rotherham in order to foment hatred." would be even more accurate.0 -
Whataboutery, but yes, members of the Churches had their own patterns of cover up and therefore lack of consequences that meant their crimes raged out of control. In Rotheram and similar cases the community immune from policing was Asian. Perhaps there were cultural antecedents in views on women, but the main driver of behaviour is consequences, and in this case, there weren't any.Malmesbury said:
You mean the Catholic Church and the Church of England, for example?Luckyguy1983 said:
Foment. Oddly I agree about Islam not being the core of this issue, but you, Cyclefree and others are very much missing what is the key element, which is the utter impunity with which of members of certain communities perpetrated these crimes, due to the authorities actively protecting them for the sake of community relations. That is what led to the epic proportions of the abuse - our own authorities and their fetishisation of community relations above all other considerations.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.0 -
A further thought - the savage hatred for the hierarchy of the Catholic Church during the reformation, by some. Almost as if there was a deeper reason behind it. The "Black Book" (pile of papers really) compiled by Cromwell - which was too disturbing to publish - comes to mind.Malmesbury said:
You mean the Catholic Church and the Church of England, for example?Luckyguy1983 said:
Foment. Oddly I agree about Islam not being the core of this issue, but you, Cyclefree and others are very much missing what is the key element, which is the utter impunity with which of members of certain communities perpetrated these crimes, due to the authorities actively protecting them for the sake of community relations. That is what led to the epic proportions of the abuse - our own authorities and their fetishisation of community relations above all other considerations.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
People don't change (that much). And the Church, back then, was close to a parallel state, with its own laws and jurisdiction.0 -
The problem is that several things are true at once.
Tommy Robinson IS using the Rochdale scandal to foment ethnic hatred.
AND
There remains a lingering sense that nobody in authority has ever had to account for said (and other) scandals.
Meanwhile, immigration policy generally has been to ignore the idea that some cultures are more assimilable than others, which is surely the right policy in small numbers but perhaps not when you embark on a mass migration program, which has been standard, if unannounced, British policy since 1997.
5 -
I don't know enough about him to comment on his motivation but that seems like a strange objective. If you said that he talks about Rotherham in order to make a name for himself it would make more sense.bondegezou said:
Tommy Robinson talks a lot about Rotherham in order to foment hatred.williamglenn said:
The accusation of fomenting hatred is the last refuge of a scoundrel. It's used to give people who want to brush issues under the carpet the false belief that they hold the moral high ground.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
What part of that is untrue?0 -
That brushing under the carpet happened in relation to the Islington children's' homes - because the authorities did not want to admit that their pro-gay policies had allowed bad actors - child abusers - to infiltrate those homes by pretending to be gay.Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
It's fundamentally the same mechanism at work - the authorities worrying more about the consequences for them of admitting that the policies which allowed the abuse to happen were flawed - than about the consequences for the victims.
You can say exactly the same in relation to churches, schools and every other institution or group which is venerated or put on a pedestal or feared in some way.5 -
Full video of the Tesla exploding outside Trumpdozer towers in Las Vegas.
https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1874543673834455428?s=61
1 -
not caring about the girls was the problem.
The rest is whataboutery.1 -
The point is in muslim culture girls of that age are covered up.MustaphaMondeo said:not caring about the girls was the problem.
The rest is whataboutery.0 -
Guns don't kill people.bondegezou said:
I always get “foment” wrong.Luckyguy1983 said:
Foment. Oddly I agree about Islam not being the core of this issue, but you, Cyclefree and others are very much missing what is the key element, which is the utter impunity with which of members of certain communities perpetrated these crimes, due to the authorities actively protecting them for the sake of community relations. That is what led to the epic proportions of the abuse - our own authorities and their fetishisation of community relations above all other considerations.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
There was a problem in Rotherham and some other places that some in authority didn’t act so as to preserve community relations. There was also a problem in Rotherham and *many* other places of not believing the victims and seeing the victims as responsible, believing the abusers, and just wanting to avoid difficult situations.
I don’t think that a “fetishisation of community relations” led to the abuse. The abusers’ behaviour led to the abuse.
People kill people.0 -
I agree.williamglenn said:
I don't know enough about him to comment on his motivation but that seems like a strange objective. If you said that he talks about Rotherham in order to make a name for himself it would make more sense.bondegezou said:
Tommy Robinson talks a lot about Rotherham in order to foment hatred.williamglenn said:
The accusation of fomenting hatred is the last refuge of a scoundrel. It's used to give people who want to brush issues under the carpet the false belief that they hold the moral high ground.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
What part of that is untrue?
He is a grifter and self publicist. He also used to be involved with Luton Towns MIGs, a piss poor football ‘firm’ as well.0 -
That looks like more than a battery explosion.Taz said:Full video of the Tesla exploding outside Trumpdozer towers in Las Vegas.
https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1874543673834455428?s=611 -
Spot on.Gardenwalker said:The problem is that several things are true at once.
Tommy Robinson IS using the Rochdale scandal to foment ethnic hatred.
AND
There remains a lingering sense that nobody in authority has ever had to account for said (and other) scandals.
Meanwhile, immigration policy generally has been to ignore the idea that some cultures are more assimilable than others, which is surely the right policy in small numbers but perhaps not when you embark on a mass migration program, which has been standard, if unannounced, British policy since 1997.0 -
As I said.Newage said:
The point is in muslim culture girls of that age are covered up.MustaphaMondeo said:not caring about the girls was the problem.
The rest is whataboutery.
What about culture being fairly typical.
0 -
I remember a house of the locally known (to the kids) paedo in my estate 'catching on fire whoops'. The fire brigade turned up and were prevented doing anything until the local plod had taken all the files out of the place.Stuartinromford said:
That's where the Church of England scandals don't quite fit the same template, but in an informative way.Casino_Royale said:
We don't believe children or we fear talking to those of others, fearing we lack the skills to do so and the courage to act on what they say, because we worry about the wrath of the adults - who are all too more believable.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
So we shrug and move on.
For whatever reasons, the victims tended to be troubled young men, not troubled young women. But with the same power imbalance, and the same fear of confronting the perpetrators.
And if the common factor is that will-to-power, then perhaps it's necessary to question the motives of those who point to some scandals and not others.
Being from a police family, the gossip was the plod had orders from on-high, via the council leadership, that those files contained a lot of rather compromising photographs of various great and good.
That was the last that was heard of it. House had just 'gone on fire'. Case solved.0 -
He used to train at the same gym as Andrew Tate. Luton really churns them out.Taz said:
I agree.williamglenn said:
I don't know enough about him to comment on his motivation but that seems like a strange objective. If you said that he talks about Rotherham in order to make a name for himself it would make more sense.bondegezou said:
Tommy Robinson talks a lot about Rotherham in order to foment hatred.williamglenn said:
The accusation of fomenting hatred is the last refuge of a scoundrel. It's used to give people who want to brush issues under the carpet the false belief that they hold the moral high ground.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
What part of that is untrue?
He is a grifter and self publicist. He also used to be involved with Luton Towns MIGs, a piss poor football ‘firm’ as well.0 -
It's probably the wrong time to say this but it's a real credit to our security services, and those of the Americans, that terrorist attacks are largely confined to the odd lone wolfs these days - very hard to stop all of those - rather than organised terrorist cells.
15-20 years ago attacks like this would have been done by multiple perpetrators, at scale, and well-armed.3 -
To be fair the original headline/subheader wasn't a true reflection of her column's argument - which is not that all support for Palestine is inherently antisemitic, which is clearly ludicrous, but that by unquestioningly accepting and repeating claims and conjectures made by the Palestinian/Arab side western activists or politicians are repeating as 'fact' claims that are dubious and made by people who despise Israel for antisemitic reasons. So there was good reason to change the headline.Theuniondivvie said:In 'oops, we may have gone too far this time' news.
I'm sure the JC will have learnt its lesson.0 -
No - I do not miss this key element at all. I have written about it repeatedly in headers on here. And BTL. It is an element of all such scandals. At least some of these Asian men have been convicted. How many were convicted over the abuse in Islington children's homes or in Islington or in the many other places and groups responsible for similar crimes?Luckyguy1983 said:
Foment. Oddly I agree about Islam not being the core of this issue, but you, Cyclefree and others are very much missing what is the key element, which is the utter impunity with which members of certain communities perpetrated these crimes, due to the authorities actively protecting them for the sake of community relations. That is what led to the epic proportions of the abuse - our own authorities and their fetishisation of community relations above all other considerations.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
Society has refused to face up to elements of Islam and some foreign cultures which are problematic, to put it mildly. It has also refused - and is continuing to refuse to - face up to elements of our own society's culture and behaviour which are equally problematic. I do not downplay the issues with Asian grooming gangs but we make a big mistake in thinking that this is all down to them. And an equally big mistake in thinking that this is the only example of the authorities turning a blind eye or covering up matters which embarrass them.3 -
Worth remembering that Asian girls too have been abused within their communities but there has been a lot of silence on this. There should not be. Those girls too are forgotten victims.Newage said:
The point is in muslim culture girls of that age are covered up.MustaphaMondeo said:not caring about the girls was the problem.
The rest is whataboutery.5 -
All human behaviour is governed primarily by consequences. If we had no law, and no negative consequences for crimes, we would have a lawless society. All the perpetrators are to blame for their viscious and disgusting abuse - they made that moral decision, but the supposed upholders of the law are to blame for the scale of the problem.bondegezou said:
I always get “foment” wrong.Luckyguy1983 said:
Foment. Oddly I agree about Islam not being the core of this issue, but you, Cyclefree and others are very much missing what is the key element, which is the utter impunity with which of members of certain communities perpetrated these crimes, due to the authorities actively protecting them for the sake of community relations. That is what led to the epic proportions of the abuse - our own authorities and their fetishisation of community relations above all other considerations.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
There was a problem in Rotherham and some other places that some in authority didn’t act so as to preserve community relations. There was also a problem in Rotherham and *many* other places of not believing the victims and seeing the victims as responsible, believing the abusers, and just wanting to avoid difficult situations.
I don’t think that a “fetishisation of community relations” led to the abuse. The abusers’ behaviour led to the abuse.
As I have said before, imagine if, secretly, all men above 6ft were able to leave supermarkets without paying for their shopping and not be detained. Most would still pay. Some would take full advantage. And some would make a show of paying but gradually 'forget their wallet' every now and again. This behaviour would increase as 6fters saw other 6fters getting away with it and decided they'd get a piece of the action - why not? Soon it would become an epidemic. That's what the authorities did in Rotherham.1 -
There are reports that others have been arrested about today's attack. But I there have been plenty of solo 'terrorist' attacks in the USA over the years.Casino_Royale said:It's probably the wrong time to say this but it's a real credit to our security services, and those of the Americans, that terrorist attacks are largely confined to the odd lone wolfs these days - very hard to stop all of those - rather than organised terrorist cells.
15-20 years ago attacks like this would have been done by multiple perpetrators, at scale, and well-armed.
There's an interesting paper on this at https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/248691.pdf . Appendix 4 is particularly fascinating, showing how source of radicalisation changed after September 11th.1 -
I rewatched the 'Red Riding' trilogy over Christmas (I'm cheery like that). It still strikes me as one of the few TV drama's to really dive into the wider cover-up-upon-cover-up of horrific abuses down the years. It's quite striking in comparison to the back-slapping the occasional newspaper article gets when it reports on an incident. The only similar series I can think of is the 1978 series 'Law & Order' which was much more focussed and fictionalised.Cyclefree said:
No - I do not miss this key element at all. I have written about it repeatedly in headers on here. And BTL. It is an element of all such scandals. At least some of these Asian men have been convicted. How many were convicted over the abuse in Islington children's homes or in Islington or in the many other places and groups responsible for similar crimes?Luckyguy1983 said:
Foment. Oddly I agree about Islam not being the core of this issue, but you, Cyclefree and others are very much missing what is the key element, which is the utter impunity with which members of certain communities perpetrated these crimes, due to the authorities actively protecting them for the sake of community relations. That is what led to the epic proportions of the abuse - our own authorities and their fetishisation of community relations above all other considerations.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
Society has refused to face up to elements of Islam and some foreign cultures which are problematic, to put it mildly. It has also refused - and is continuing to refuse to - face up to elements of our own society's culture and behaviour which are equally problematic. I do not downplay the issues with Asian grooming gangs but we make a big mistake in thinking that this is all down to them. And an equally big mistake in thinking that this is the only example of the authorities turning a blind eye or covering up matters which embarrass them.
Possibly in a much, much wider sense Secret Society being a documentary about similar(ish) endemic corruption.1 -
It doesn't look like a 'traditional' chemical explosion to me; more like a fireworks explosion - although the bits coming out might be parts of burning battery. A freeze-frame posted makes it look as though it starts at the bottom of the car below the bed, and I would have expected something in the bed to bust upwards, through the bed cover.williamglenn said:
That looks like more than a battery explosion.Taz said:Full video of the Tesla exploding outside Trumpdozer towers in Las Vegas.
https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1874543673834455428?s=61
If this happened anywhere else, I'd be happy to say, in an inexpert way, that it was a battery explosion. But outside Trump Tower? And I haven't seen similar 'explosions' on video before; but perhaps only the firey aftermath are caught on camera.
Of course, it could be someone using a Tesla car as a makeshift IED. But the guy died in the explosion.0 -
Yes,the victims the far right care little about.Cyclefree said:
Worth remembering that Asian girls too have been abused within their communities but there has been a lot of silence on this. There should not be. Those girls too are forgotten victims.Newage said:
The point is in muslim culture girls of that age are covered up.MustaphaMondeo said:not caring about the girls was the problem.
The rest is whataboutery.1 -
A significant minority of people in authority enjoy raping people, including children, and a wider body of people in authority consider practising rape to be a quirk or oddity, rather than a crime.Cyclefree said:
Worth remembering that Asian girls too have been abused within their communities but there has been a lot of silence on this. There should not be. Those girls too are forgotten victims.Newage said:
The point is in muslim culture girls of that age are covered up.MustaphaMondeo said:not caring about the girls was the problem.
The rest is whataboutery.1 -
Is it not just how lithium batteries catch on fire, with lots of sparks?JosiasJessop said:
It doesn't look like a 'traditional' chemical explosion to me; more like a fireworks explosion - although the bits coming out might be parts of burning battery. A freeze-frame posted makes it look as though it starts at the bottom of the car below the bed, and I would have expected something in the bed to bust upwards, through the bed cover.williamglenn said:
That looks like more than a battery explosion.Taz said:Full video of the Tesla exploding outside Trumpdozer towers in Las Vegas.
https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1874543673834455428?s=61
If this happened anywhere else, I'd be happy to say, in an inexpert way, that it was a battery explosion. But outside Trump Tower? And I haven't seen similar 'explosions' on video before; but perhaps only the firey aftermath are caught on camera.
Of course, it could be someone using a Tesla car as a makeshift IED. But the guy died in the explosion.0 -
I suggest the problem is not Muslim culture in itself but a surplus within certain communities of low-skilled men who barely scratch a living, driving taxis and similar casual work. They have no realistic prospect of forming a stable sexual relationship because they wouldn't be allowed anywhere near a female member of their own community, they lack the financial and social capital to attract a mate from the wider population, and they could never afford to import a wife from abroad. Sending a few to prison or holding an inquiry will do nothing to address this essentially demographic problem because a hundred more are arriving by boat every single day.Cyclefree said:
No - I do not miss this key element at all. I have written about it repeatedly in headers on here. And BTL. It is an element of all such scandals. At least some of these Asian men have been convicted. How many were convicted over the abuse in Islington children's homes or in Islington or in the many other places and groups responsible for similar crimes?Luckyguy1983 said:
Foment. Oddly I agree about Islam not being the core of this issue, but you, Cyclefree and others are very much missing what is the key element, which is the utter impunity with which members of certain communities perpetrated these crimes, due to the authorities actively protecting them for the sake of community relations. That is what led to the epic proportions of the abuse - our own authorities and their fetishisation of community relations above all other considerations.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
Society has refused to face up to elements of Islam and some foreign cultures which are problematic, to put it mildly. It has also refused - and is continuing to refuse to - face up to elements of our own society's culture and behaviour which are equally problematic. I do not downplay the issues with Asian grooming gangs but we make a big mistake in thinking that this is all down to them. And an equally big mistake in thinking that this is the only example of the authorities turning a blind eye or covering up matters which embarrass them.0 -
Eh? The last line of the actual piece is 'If you support the Palestinian Arab cause today, you are facilitating deranged and murderous Jew-hatred. Own it.' Seems pretty clear what is Phillips' argument.MJW said:
To be fair the original headline/subheader wasn't a true reflection of her column's argument - which is not that all support for Palestine is inherently antisemitic, which is clearly ludicrous, but that by unquestioningly accepting and repeating claims and conjectures made by the Palestinian/Arab side western activists or politicians are repeating as 'fact' claims that are dubious and made by people who despise Israel for antisemitic reasons. So there was good reason to change the headline.Theuniondivvie said:In 'oops, we may have gone too far this time' news.
I'm sure the JC will have learnt its lesson.
If the JC is platforming the opinions of deranged extremist Mel I daresay they're not over concerned about credibility, but it appears even they have (debased) standards.1 -
A good point, well put. It is much more than just 'white working class girls'.Cyclefree said:
Worth remembering that Asian girls too have been abused within their communities but there has been a lot of silence on this. There should not be. Those girls too are forgotten victims.Newage said:
The point is in muslim culture girls of that age are covered up.MustaphaMondeo said:not caring about the girls was the problem.
The rest is whataboutery.
I wonder if the perpetrators of these crimes are also more likely to be rapists withing their 'proper' relationships/marriages. I would guess so.1 -
Bullet Bunting beats Snakebite in a decent game.0
-
I used to live next door to a couple. Well, 'couple'. The girl said she was 16, though I had my doubts going by her voice. Sadly never got to see her. But every night my partner and I could hear her being beaten to sh*t through the walls, crying, wailing. My partner tried to talk to her through the door, but she refused to come out and wouldn't open the door. Police, council - both said there was nothing they could do. After a while she just wasn't around.Cyclefree said:
Worth remembering that Asian girls too have been abused within their communities but there has been a lot of silence on this. There should not be. Those girls too are forgotten victims.Newage said:
The point is in muslim culture girls of that age are covered up.MustaphaMondeo said:not caring about the girls was the problem.
The rest is whataboutery.
I really wish I could forget it.0 -
Public schools churn them out. Part of their "education"Sean_F said:
A significant minority of people in authority enjoy raping people, including children, and a wider body of people in authority consider practising rape to be a quirk or oddity, rather than a crime.Cyclefree said:
Worth remembering that Asian girls too have been abused within their communities but there has been a lot of silence on this. There should not be. Those girls too are forgotten victims.Newage said:
The point is in muslim culture girls of that age are covered up.MustaphaMondeo said:not caring about the girls was the problem.
The rest is whataboutery.0 -
I don't know enough to say. I would say anecdotally that the lithium battery fires I've seen done on YouTube seem to differ a fair bit, perhaps on the basis of the way they are packaged. In addition, a Tesla battery is a mass of much smaller cells, so I can imagine some being thrown out on fire if the deflagration was strong enough. But Tesla have been quite good with their battery packaging AIUI.RobD said:
Is it not just how lithium batteries catch on fire, with lots of sparks?JosiasJessop said:
It doesn't look like a 'traditional' chemical explosion to me; more like a fireworks explosion - although the bits coming out might be parts of burning battery. A freeze-frame posted makes it look as though it starts at the bottom of the car below the bed, and I would have expected something in the bed to bust upwards, through the bed cover.williamglenn said:
That looks like more than a battery explosion.Taz said:Full video of the Tesla exploding outside Trumpdozer towers in Las Vegas.
https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1874543673834455428?s=61
If this happened anywhere else, I'd be happy to say, in an inexpert way, that it was a battery explosion. But outside Trump Tower? And I haven't seen similar 'explosions' on video before; but perhaps only the firey aftermath are caught on camera.
Of course, it could be someone using a Tesla car as a makeshift IED. But the guy died in the explosion.0 -
That's true though.Theuniondivvie said:
Eh? The last line of the actual piece is 'If you support the Palestinian Arab cause today, you are facilitating deranged and murderous Jew-hatred. Own it.' Seems pretty clear what is Phillips' argument.MJW said:
To be fair the original headline/subheader wasn't a true reflection of her column's argument - which is not that all support for Palestine is inherently antisemitic, which is clearly ludicrous, but that by unquestioningly accepting and repeating claims and conjectures made by the Palestinian/Arab side western activists or politicians are repeating as 'fact' claims that are dubious and made by people who despise Israel for antisemitic reasons. So there was good reason to change the headline.Theuniondivvie said:In 'oops, we may have gone too far this time' news.
I'm sure the JC will have learnt its lesson.
If the JC is platforming the opinions of deranged extremist Mel I daresay they're not over concerned about credibility, but it appears even they have (debased) standards.0 -
Driver kiIIed, 7 others injured after Cybertruck EXPLODES outside Trump Tower in Las Vegas
The driver pulled up, stopped right outside the front doors, and remained in the vehicle with their foot on the brake, and detonated explosives.
THIS WAS AN ATTACK.
Why aren’t we being given more details?! Where is the legacy media
https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1874545024236433434
-1 -
If it was an ATTACK, who was it ATTACKING and why did the driver set off the EXPLOSION when they were still sat in the car?Newage said:Driver kiIIed, 7 others injured after Cybertruck EXPLODES outside Trump Tower in Las Vegas
The driver pulled up, stopped right outside the front doors, and remained in the vehicle with their foot on the brake, and detonated explosives.
THIS WAS AN ATTACK.
Why aren’t we being given more details?! Where is the legacy media
https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1874545024236433434
1 -
"Thousands throng central Birmingham amid false rumour of New Year’s Eve fireworks
Revellers left disappointed after social media reports of display turn out to be a damp squib"
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/jan/01/thousands-throng-central-birmingham-after-new-years-eve-fireworks-hoax0 -
A tweet that may, or may not, age well.Newage said:Driver kiIIed, 7 others injured after Cybertruck EXPLODES outside Trump Tower in Las Vegas
The driver pulled up, stopped right outside the front doors, and remained in the vehicle with their foot on the brake, and detonated explosives.
THIS WAS AN ATTACK.
Why aren’t we being given more details?! Where is the legacy media
https://x.com/nicksortor/status/18745450242364334340 -
So 2 terror attacks in 1 day.
BREAKING: The Cybertruck explosion outside of Trump hotel in Las Vegas is now being investigated as a possible act of terror according to ABC.
One person is deceased and multiple people are injured after the explosion.
The person who was killed was the driver who reportedly pulled up to the valet area before the car exploded.
“In total, there were seven minor injuries, two of which were transported to UMC again for minor injuries, and there is one fatality within the Cybertruck.”
“Until a motive is determined and other possibilities are ruled out, police are treating the explosion like a possible criminal act and a possible act of terror,” ABC reported.
https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/18745585803321553420 -
a
A common design for electric vehicle batteries (underfloor ones) is that the battery is protected from the top, bottom and sides of the vehicle with metal. The front and back are left relatively open so that any fire vents there.JosiasJessop said:
I don't know enough to say. I would say anecdotally that the lithium battery fires I've seen done on YouTube seem to differ a fair bit, perhaps on the basis of the way they are packaged. In addition, a Tesla battery is a mass of much smaller cells, so I can imagine some being thrown out on fire if the deflagration was strong enough. But Tesla have been quite good with their battery packaging AIUI.RobD said:
Is it not just how lithium batteries catch on fire, with lots of sparks?JosiasJessop said:
It doesn't look like a 'traditional' chemical explosion to me; more like a fireworks explosion - although the bits coming out might be parts of burning battery. A freeze-frame posted makes it look as though it starts at the bottom of the car below the bed, and I would have expected something in the bed to bust upwards, through the bed cover.williamglenn said:
That looks like more than a battery explosion.Taz said:Full video of the Tesla exploding outside Trumpdozer towers in Las Vegas.
https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1874543673834455428?s=61
If this happened anywhere else, I'd be happy to say, in an inexpert way, that it was a battery explosion. But outside Trump Tower? And I haven't seen similar 'explosions' on video before; but perhaps only the firey aftermath are caught on camera.
Of course, it could be someone using a Tesla car as a makeshift IED. But the guy died in the explosion.
The idea is that if a fire breaks out, those in the vehicle are protected, and access to the side is also protected. Venting to the front and back prevents an explosive build up of pressure.
Electric vehicle fires are less common than ICE fires. This is because the various companies involved spent large amounts of engineering effort on making fires less probable.1 -
And where is yours ?xyzxyzxyz said:
Where is your evidence?bondegezou said:
Oh God, not another person who’s swallowed all the MAGA conspiracies…xyzxyzxyz said:
You have described the Biden crime family!LostPassword said:I've always maintained that Trump was primarily a grifter, in politics for the money he could get out of it, and therefore with no fixed ideology as such. So I feel a certain grim satisfaction in catching up with the news that Trump has reversed his policy on banning tiktok, because one of his larger donors owns a stake in the company.
In a few weeks time the President of the United States will be an individual who is determined to sell himself and his administration to the highest bidder. That's the guiding principle we should expect to see followed, and not mistake anything as part of a coherent ideology on isolationism, nationalism, populism, whatever. He will take money and do a u-turn.0 -
The Police and Council couldn’t do anything ?ohnotnow said:
I used to live next door to a couple. Well, 'couple'. The girl said she was 16, though I had my doubts going by her voice. Sadly never got to see her. But every night my partner and I could hear her being beaten to sh*t through the walls, crying, wailing. My partner tried to talk to her through the door, but she refused to come out and wouldn't open the door. Police, council - both said there was nothing they could do. After a while she just wasn't around.Cyclefree said:
Worth remembering that Asian girls too have been abused within their communities but there has been a lot of silence on this. There should not be. Those girls too are forgotten victims.Newage said:
The point is in muslim culture girls of that age are covered up.MustaphaMondeo said:not caring about the girls was the problem.
The rest is whataboutery.
I really wish I could forget it.
Did they give a reason for their indifference to this girls plight ?0 -
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874558969802547611JosiasJessop said:
A tweet that may, or may not, age well.Newage said:Driver kiIIed, 7 others injured after Cybertruck EXPLODES outside Trump Tower in Las Vegas
The driver pulled up, stopped right outside the front doors, and remained in the vehicle with their foot on the brake, and detonated explosives.
THIS WAS AN ATTACK.
Why aren’t we being given more details?! Where is the legacy media
https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1874545024236433434
The whole Tesla senior team is investigating this matter right now.
Will post more information as soon as we learn anything.
We’ve never seen anything like this.0 -
Has Kekius Maximus commented yet?williamglenn said:
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874558969802547611JosiasJessop said:
A tweet that may, or may not, age well.Newage said:Driver kiIIed, 7 others injured after Cybertruck EXPLODES outside Trump Tower in Las Vegas
The driver pulled up, stopped right outside the front doors, and remained in the vehicle with their foot on the brake, and detonated explosives.
THIS WAS AN ATTACK.
Why aren’t we being given more details?! Where is the legacy media
https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1874545024236433434
The whole Tesla senior team is investigating this matter right now.
Will post more information as soon as we learn anything.
We’ve never seen anything like this.0 -
I get to see video of the Tesla exploding on PB, but not on the BBC.
This site is exceptional.1 -
I'd also add, from a historic event, record dates and times you hear things in a diary, and if possible, record the sounds as you hear them in your own property.Taz said:
The Police and Council couldn’t do anything ?ohnotnow said:
I used to live next door to a couple. Well, 'couple'. The girl said she was 16, though I had my doubts going by her voice. Sadly never got to see her. But every night my partner and I could hear her being beaten to sh*t through the walls, crying, wailing. My partner tried to talk to her through the door, but she refused to come out and wouldn't open the door. Police, council - both said there was nothing they could do. After a while she just wasn't around.Cyclefree said:
Worth remembering that Asian girls too have been abused within their communities but there has been a lot of silence on this. There should not be. Those girls too are forgotten victims.Newage said:
The point is in muslim culture girls of that age are covered up.MustaphaMondeo said:not caring about the girls was the problem.
The rest is whataboutery.
I really wish I could forget it.
Did they give a reason for their indifference to this girls plight ?0 -
This looks like a planned attack.
Not a battery fire. Notice all the small concussion explosions after the initial boom.
This looks like a bomb in the bed of the truck.
https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/18745440067824685360 -
Both Jews and Palestinians have legitimate grievances.Theuniondivvie said:
Eh? The last line of the actual piece is 'If you support the Palestinian Arab cause today, you are facilitating deranged and murderous Jew-hatred. Own it.' Seems pretty clear what is Phillips' argument.MJW said:
To be fair the original headline/subheader wasn't a true reflection of her column's argument - which is not that all support for Palestine is inherently antisemitic, which is clearly ludicrous, but that by unquestioningly accepting and repeating claims and conjectures made by the Palestinian/Arab side western activists or politicians are repeating as 'fact' claims that are dubious and made by people who despise Israel for antisemitic reasons. So there was good reason to change the headline.Theuniondivvie said:In 'oops, we may have gone too far this time' news.
I'm sure the JC will have learnt its lesson.
If the JC is platforming the opinions of deranged extremist Mel I daresay they're not over concerned about credibility, but it appears even they have (debased) standards.
Melanie Phillips sees the former but not the latter.
The October 7th attacks were evil. Very many Palestinians would like to see the Jews driven into the sea.
At the same time, the IDF is clearly reckless in its disregard for civilian lives in Gaza, and the West Bank settlers, abetted by their government, behave abominably to the locals.5 -
There isn't complete silence, but it certainly gets less news coverage.Cyclefree said:
Worth remembering that Asian girls too have been abused within their communities but there has been a lot of silence on this. There should not be. Those girls too are forgotten victims.Newage said:
The point is in muslim culture girls of that age are covered up.MustaphaMondeo said:not caring about the girls was the problem.
The rest is whataboutery.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-48622434
I wouldn't say it was a problem specific to any community, or class of society either. Just look at the sexual abuse scandal that caused the AoC to resign last year, or the exposure.
And of course it's not unusual for native British men of a certain age to travel to South East Asia to exploit young trafficked girls.
0 -
Presumably not as you’d be first to tell us if he had.Theuniondivvie said:
Has Kekius Maximus commented yet?williamglenn said:
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874558969802547611JosiasJessop said:
A tweet that may, or may not, age well.Newage said:Driver kiIIed, 7 others injured after Cybertruck EXPLODES outside Trump Tower in Las Vegas
The driver pulled up, stopped right outside the front doors, and remained in the vehicle with their foot on the brake, and detonated explosives.
THIS WAS AN ATTACK.
Why aren’t we being given more details?! Where is the legacy media
https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1874545024236433434
The whole Tesla senior team is investigating this matter right now.
Will post more information as soon as we learn anything.
We’ve never seen anything like this.1 -
s
Could you please not post measured, balanced opinions with nuance?Sean_F said:
Both Jews and Palestinians have legitimate grievances.Theuniondivvie said:
Eh? The last line of the actual piece is 'If you support the Palestinian Arab cause today, you are facilitating deranged and murderous Jew-hatred. Own it.' Seems pretty clear what is Phillips' argument.MJW said:
To be fair the original headline/subheader wasn't a true reflection of her column's argument - which is not that all support for Palestine is inherently antisemitic, which is clearly ludicrous, but that by unquestioningly accepting and repeating claims and conjectures made by the Palestinian/Arab side western activists or politicians are repeating as 'fact' claims that are dubious and made by people who despise Israel for antisemitic reasons. So there was good reason to change the headline.Theuniondivvie said:In 'oops, we may have gone too far this time' news.
I'm sure the JC will have learnt its lesson.
If the JC is platforming the opinions of deranged extremist Mel I daresay they're not over concerned about credibility, but it appears even they have (debased) standards.
Melanie Phillips sees the former but not the latter.
The October 7th attacks were evil. Very many Palestinians would like to see the Jews driven into the sea.
At the same time, the IDF is clearly reckless in its disregard for civilian lives in Gaza, and the West Bank settlers, abetted by their government, behave abominably to the locals.
This is politicaloutrage.com, after all.7 -
There is a long and hideous history of such things being ignored.Taz said:
The Police and Council couldn’t do anything ?ohnotnow said:
I used to live next door to a couple. Well, 'couple'. The girl said she was 16, though I had my doubts going by her voice. Sadly never got to see her. But every night my partner and I could hear her being beaten to sh*t through the walls, crying, wailing. My partner tried to talk to her through the door, but she refused to come out and wouldn't open the door. Police, council - both said there was nothing they could do. After a while she just wasn't around.Cyclefree said:
Worth remembering that Asian girls too have been abused within their communities but there has been a lot of silence on this. There should not be. Those girls too are forgotten victims.Newage said:
The point is in muslim culture girls of that age are covered up.MustaphaMondeo said:not caring about the girls was the problem.
The rest is whataboutery.
I really wish I could forget it.
Did they give a reason for their indifference to this girls plight ?
I believe that @DavidL has said, on several occasions, that historic cases of abuse are now taking up a massive chunks of court time. Because they were ignored for yonks.0 -
"Labour must beware Reform, the British wing of Trumpism
While liberalism is in decline, Nigel Farage’s party is only growing in strength.
By Andrew Marr"
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2024/12/labour-must-beware-reform-british-wing-of-trumpism0 -
Of course it’s a bomb.Newage said:This looks like a planned attack.
Not a battery fire. Notice all the small concussion explosions after the initial boom.
This looks like a bomb in the bed of the truck.
https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/18745440067824685360 -
Theuniondivvie said:
Eh? The last line of the actual piece is 'If you support the Palestinian Arab cause today, you are facilitating deranged and murderous Jew-hatred. Own it.' Seems pretty clear what is Phillips' argument.MJW said:
To be fair the original headline/subheader wasn't a true reflection of her column's argument - which is not that all support for Palestine is inherently antisemitic, which is clearly ludicrous, but that by unquestioningly accepting and repeating claims and conjectures made by the Palestinian/Arab side western activists or politicians are repeating as 'fact' claims that are dubious and made by people who despise Israel for antisemitic reasons. So there was good reason to change the headline.Theuniondivvie said:In 'oops, we may have gone too far this time' news.
I'm sure the JC will have learnt its lesson.
If the JC is platforming the opinions of deranged extremist Mel I daresay they're not over concerned about credibility, but it appears even they have (debased) standards.
Am no fan of Philips, but its overall argument is the less strong and not identical one that too often people repeat stuff that is antisemitic because they accept things as fact or morally just, evidence or arguments that have antisemitism as their motivation. That then has spread hatred towards Jews because if you take them as fact it does justify extreme interventions and anger at anyone who isn't equally excised - i.e. the bulk of Jews who refuse to entirely disavow Israel.Theuniondivvie said:
Eh? The last line of the actual piece is 'If you support the Palestinian Arab cause today, you are facilitating deranged and murderous Jew-hatred. Own it.' Seems pretty clear what is Phillips' argument.MJW said:
To be fair the original headline/subheader wasn't a true reflection of her column's argument - which is not that all support for Palestine is inherently antisemitic, which is clearly ludicrous, but that by unquestioningly accepting and repeating claims and conjectures made by the Palestinian/Arab side western activists or politicians are repeating as 'fact' claims that are dubious and made by people who despise Israel for antisemitic reasons. So there was good reason to change the headline.Theuniondivvie said:In 'oops, we may have gone too far this time' news.
I'm sure the JC will have learnt its lesson.
If the JC is platforming the opinions of deranged extremist Mel I daresay they're not over concerned about credibility, but it appears even they have (debased) standards.
As ever, Mad Mel is intemperate in her language there but the rest is more defensible, even if one disagrees or would put differently - and similar attitudes are quite regular in Israel and helps you understand why things are the way they are. Namely that lots on the Arab/Palestinian side don't want peace and a two state solution, even if nominally say they support it as a staging post, as are motivated by deeply entrenched antisemitic attitudes and wanting Jews out of, eradicated or subjugated in what they see as 'Arab lands'.0 -
The good news here is that Andrew Marr is generally wrong.Andy_JS said:"Labour must beware Reform, the British wing of Trumpism
While liberalism is in decline, Nigel Farage’s party is only growing in strength.
By Andrew Marr"
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2024/12/labour-must-beware-reform-british-wing-of-trumpism
0 -
Can Musk remotely control those trucks?RochdalePioneers said:
Of course it’s a bomb.Newage said:This looks like a planned attack.
Not a battery fire. Notice all the small concussion explosions after the initial boom.
This looks like a bomb in the bed of the truck.
https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/1874544006782468536
( this is comedy )
1 -
The common thread is not the race of victim or perpetrator, it is that women and girls, as witnesses to crimes of sexual violence committed against themselves, are too often not treated as credible or reliable witnesses.Cyclefree said:
No - I do not miss this key element at all. I have written about it repeatedly in headers on here. And BTL. It is an element of all such scandals. At least some of these Asian men have been convicted. How many were convicted over the abuse in Islington children's homes or in Islington or in the many other places and groups responsible for similar crimes?Luckyguy1983 said:
Foment. Oddly I agree about Islam not being the core of this issue, but you, Cyclefree and others are very much missing what is the key element, which is the utter impunity with which members of certain communities perpetrated these crimes, due to the authorities actively protecting them for the sake of community relations. That is what led to the epic proportions of the abuse - our own authorities and their fetishisation of community relations above all other considerations.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
Society has refused to face up to elements of Islam and some foreign cultures which are problematic, to put it mildly. It has also refused - and is continuing to refuse to - face up to elements of our own society's culture and behaviour which are equally problematic. I do not downplay the issues with Asian grooming gangs but we make a big mistake in thinking that this is all down to them. And an equally big mistake in thinking that this is the only example of the authorities turning a blind eye or covering up matters which embarrass them.
I've argued on here before that this might be a problem we need to address as a society, and I get told that the criminal justice system is working just fine. But in other crimes, say of property crime, or assault, witnesses are not routinely disbelieved as they are in crimes of sexual violence.
Society is not willing to accept that the numbers of perpetrators of violence against women and girls is as high as it is, and so it finds excuses to minimise those numbers and to only convict a small fraction of those responsible. To admit that the number of men who commit these crimes is much higher is too terrifying to contemplate. Pretending that this is mainly a problem of Muslim perpetrators is part of this same exercise in denial.9 -
The bad news is that in this case, I think he is right. The narrative is being built that "Nothing can be done. The rules say we must not fix the problems."MustaphaMondeo said:
The good news here is that Andrew Marr is generally wrong.Andy_JS said:"Labour must beware Reform, the British wing of Trumpism
While liberalism is in decline, Nigel Farage’s party is only growing in strength.
By Andrew Marr"
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2024/12/labour-must-beware-reform-british-wing-of-trumpism
Which then neatly pivots into "We must set fire to the rule book".
As I've long said on housing - get used to planning proper development *now*. Before the FuckTheGreenBelt Party wins enough support.
You have two options - find some ways to fix the problems in a liberal democratic fashion. Or someone else will have a go.7 -
Many of the Rotherham perpetrators were respected, married members of their community, they were not incels or just off a boat.Alphabet_Soup said:
I suggest the problem is not Muslim culture in itself but a surplus within certain communities of low-skilled men who barely scratch a living, driving taxis and similar casual work. They have no realistic prospect of forming a stable sexual relationship because they wouldn't be allowed anywhere near a female member of their own community, they lack the financial and social capital to attract a mate from the wider population, and they could never afford to import a wife from abroad. Sending a few to prison or holding an inquiry will do nothing to address this essentially demographic problem because a hundred more are arriving by boat every single day.Cyclefree said:
No - I do not miss this key element at all. I have written about it repeatedly in headers on here. And BTL. It is an element of all such scandals. At least some of these Asian men have been convicted. How many were convicted over the abuse in Islington children's homes or in Islington or in the many other places and groups responsible for similar crimes?Luckyguy1983 said:
Foment. Oddly I agree about Islam not being the core of this issue, but you, Cyclefree and others are very much missing what is the key element, which is the utter impunity with which members of certain communities perpetrated these crimes, due to the authorities actively protecting them for the sake of community relations. That is what led to the epic proportions of the abuse - our own authorities and their fetishisation of community relations above all other considerations.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
Society has refused to face up to elements of Islam and some foreign cultures which are problematic, to put it mildly. It has also refused - and is continuing to refuse to - face up to elements of our own society's culture and behaviour which are equally problematic. I do not downplay the issues with Asian grooming gangs but we make a big mistake in thinking that this is all down to them. And an equally big mistake in thinking that this is the only example of the authorities turning a blind eye or covering up matters which embarrass them.1 -
If it is a bomb, and we should note that Elon Musk seems open-minded, but if it is a bomb then the question arises: was there common purpose between the exploding Tesla driver and the New Orleans killer, whose car was also electric and contained explosives?RochdalePioneers said:
Of course it’s a bomb.Newage said:This looks like a planned attack.
Not a battery fire. Notice all the small concussion explosions after the initial boom.
This looks like a bomb in the bed of the truck.
https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/18745440067824685360 -
Posted without comment:
https://x.com/trussliz/status/1874570129067114893
This is @jessphillips, the same Home Office Minister who excused masked Islamist thugs.
Her title "Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Safeguarding and Violence Against Women and Girls" is a perversion of the English language.
It's clear whose side she is on.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874575303626174956
She deserves to be in prison0 -
Sky have just said both vehicles were hired from the same car agency !DecrepiterJohnL said:
If it is a bomb, and we should note that Elon Musk seems open-minded, but if it is a bomb then the question arises: was there common purpose between the exploding Tesla driver and the New Orleans killer, whose car was also electric and contained explosives?RochdalePioneers said:
Of course it’s a bomb.Newage said:This looks like a planned attack.
Not a battery fire. Notice all the small concussion explosions after the initial boom.
This looks like a bomb in the bed of the truck.
https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/18745440067824685361 -
Coinky dink surely?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sky have just said both vehicles were hired from the same car agency !DecrepiterJohnL said:
If it is a bomb, and we should note that Elon Musk seems open-minded, but if it is a bomb then the question arises: was there common purpose between the exploding Tesla driver and the New Orleans killer, whose car was also electric and contained explosives?RochdalePioneers said:
Of course it’s a bomb.Newage said:This looks like a planned attack.
Not a battery fire. Notice all the small concussion explosions after the initial boom.
This looks like a bomb in the bed of the truck.
https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/1874544006782468536
0 -
Well, yes - because to admit to this would require our society and, bluntly, the male population within it to ask itself some very hard questions about the nature of male sexuality and male sexual deviancy and how this might be dealt with. And I am afraid a lot of men do not want to confront this or ask themselves or others any of these hard questions let alone think about actions to take which might render this behaviour less harmful to its victims.LostPassword said:
The common thread is not the race of victim or perpetrator, it is that women and girls, as witnesses to crimes of sexual violence committed against themselves, are too often not treated as credible or reliable witnesses.Cyclefree said:
No - I do not miss this key element at all. I have written about it repeatedly in headers on here. And BTL. It is an element of all such scandals. At least some of these Asian men have been convicted. How many were convicted over the abuse in Islington children's homes or in Islington or in the many other places and groups responsible for similar crimes?Luckyguy1983 said:
Foment. Oddly I agree about Islam not being the core of this issue, but you, Cyclefree and others are very much missing what is the key element, which is the utter impunity with which members of certain communities perpetrated these crimes, due to the authorities actively protecting them for the sake of community relations. That is what led to the epic proportions of the abuse - our own authorities and their fetishisation of community relations above all other considerations.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
Society has refused to face up to elements of Islam and some foreign cultures which are problematic, to put it mildly. It has also refused - and is continuing to refuse to - face up to elements of our own society's culture and behaviour which are equally problematic. I do not downplay the issues with Asian grooming gangs but we make a big mistake in thinking that this is all down to them. And an equally big mistake in thinking that this is the only example of the authorities turning a blind eye or covering up matters which embarrass them.
I've argued on here before that this might be a problem we need to address as a society, and I get told that the criminal justice system is working just fine. But in other crimes, say of property crime, or assault, witnesses are not routinely disbelieved as they are in crimes of sexual violence.
Society is not willing to accept that the numbers of perpetrators of violence against women and girls is as high as it is, and so it finds excuses to minimise those numbers and to only convict a small fraction of those responsible. To admit that the number of men who commit these crimes is much higher is too terrifying to contemplate. Pretending that this is mainly a problem of Muslim perpetrators is part of this same exercise in denial.
4 -
Pretty despicable language from Truss.williamglenn said:Posted without comment:
https://x.com/trussliz/status/1874570129067114893
This is @jessphillips, the same Home Office Minister who excused masked Islamist thugs.
Her title "Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Safeguarding and Violence Against Women and Girls" is a perversion of the English language.
It's clear whose side she is on.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874575303626174956
She deserves to be in prison
She was never fit to be in Cabinet, let alone PM.
I wonder how Elon decided which of his multiplying personae to choose from when re-tweeting this latest broadside in the British culture wars.0 -
Is it wise for girls under the age of consent to wear short skirts for example.LostPassword said:
The common thread is not the race of victim or perpetrator, it is that women and girls, as witnesses to crimes of sexual violence committed against themselves, are too often not treated as credible or reliable witnesses.Cyclefree said:
No - I do not miss this key element at all. I have written about it repeatedly in headers on here. And BTL. It is an element of all such scandals. At least some of these Asian men have been convicted. How many were convicted over the abuse in Islington children's homes or in Islington or in the many other places and groups responsible for similar crimes?Luckyguy1983 said:
Foment. Oddly I agree about Islam not being the core of this issue, but you, Cyclefree and others are very much missing what is the key element, which is the utter impunity with which members of certain communities perpetrated these crimes, due to the authorities actively protecting them for the sake of community relations. That is what led to the epic proportions of the abuse - our own authorities and their fetishisation of community relations above all other considerations.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
Society has refused to face up to elements of Islam and some foreign cultures which are problematic, to put it mildly. It has also refused - and is continuing to refuse to - face up to elements of our own society's culture and behaviour which are equally problematic. I do not downplay the issues with Asian grooming gangs but we make a big mistake in thinking that this is all down to them. And an equally big mistake in thinking that this is the only example of the authorities turning a blind eye or covering up matters which embarrass them.
I've argued on here before that this might be a problem we need to address as a society, and I get told that the criminal justice system is working just fine. But in other crimes, say of property crime, or assault, witnesses are not routinely disbelieved as they are in crimes of sexual violence.
Society is not willing to accept that the numbers of perpetrators of violence against women and girls is as high as it is, and so it finds excuses to minimise those numbers and to only convict a small fraction of those responsible. To admit that the number of men who commit these crimes is much higher is too terrifying to contemplate. Pretending that this is mainly a problem of Muslim perpetrators is part of this same exercise in denial.-1 -
That sounds like a remarkable coincidence - but how many large nationwide car rental firms are there? Not many, I would guess.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sky have just said both vehicles were hired from the same car agency !DecrepiterJohnL said:
If it is a bomb, and we should note that Elon Musk seems open-minded, but if it is a bomb then the question arises: was there common purpose between the exploding Tesla driver and the New Orleans killer, whose car was also electric and contained explosives?RochdalePioneers said:
Of course it’s a bomb.Newage said:This looks like a planned attack.
Not a battery fire. Notice all the small concussion explosions after the initial boom.
This looks like a bomb in the bed of the truck.
https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/18745440067824685360 -
The Cybertruck explosion outside Trump Las Vegas was “INTENTIONAL,” three US officials tell NBC
This comes just minutes after it was revealed the Cybertruck was rented from Turo, just as the New Orleans attacker’s F-150
Is there a link?
https://x.com/nicksortor/status/18745800341047833210 -
a
A plane crashes on the Ukraine/Republic of China border. Which side do you bury the survivors?Newage said:
Is it wise for girls under the age of consent to wear short skirts for example.LostPassword said:
The common thread is not the race of victim or perpetrator, it is that women and girls, as witnesses to crimes of sexual violence committed against themselves, are too often not treated as credible or reliable witnesses.Cyclefree said:
No - I do not miss this key element at all. I have written about it repeatedly in headers on here. And BTL. It is an element of all such scandals. At least some of these Asian men have been convicted. How many were convicted over the abuse in Islington children's homes or in Islington or in the many other places and groups responsible for similar crimes?Luckyguy1983 said:
Foment. Oddly I agree about Islam not being the core of this issue, but you, Cyclefree and others are very much missing what is the key element, which is the utter impunity with which members of certain communities perpetrated these crimes, due to the authorities actively protecting them for the sake of community relations. That is what led to the epic proportions of the abuse - our own authorities and their fetishisation of community relations above all other considerations.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
Society has refused to face up to elements of Islam and some foreign cultures which are problematic, to put it mildly. It has also refused - and is continuing to refuse to - face up to elements of our own society's culture and behaviour which are equally problematic. I do not downplay the issues with Asian grooming gangs but we make a big mistake in thinking that this is all down to them. And an equally big mistake in thinking that this is the only example of the authorities turning a blind eye or covering up matters which embarrass them.
I've argued on here before that this might be a problem we need to address as a society, and I get told that the criminal justice system is working just fine. But in other crimes, say of property crime, or assault, witnesses are not routinely disbelieved as they are in crimes of sexual violence.
Society is not willing to accept that the numbers of perpetrators of violence against women and girls is as high as it is, and so it finds excuses to minimise those numbers and to only convict a small fraction of those responsible. To admit that the number of men who commit these crimes is much higher is too terrifying to contemplate. Pretending that this is mainly a problem of Muslim perpetrators is part of this same exercise in denial.
Also, is it wise for men to dress like this -
4 -
In a free society, people should be able to do things that are unwise without fear of sexual assault, or other disproportionate consequences.Newage said:
Is it wise for girls under the age of consent to wear short skirts for example.LostPassword said:
The common thread is not the race of victim or perpetrator, it is that women and girls, as witnesses to crimes of sexual violence committed against themselves, are too often not treated as credible or reliable witnesses.Cyclefree said:
No - I do not miss this key element at all. I have written about it repeatedly in headers on here. And BTL. It is an element of all such scandals. At least some of these Asian men have been convicted. How many were convicted over the abuse in Islington children's homes or in Islington or in the many other places and groups responsible for similar crimes?Luckyguy1983 said:
Foment. Oddly I agree about Islam not being the core of this issue, but you, Cyclefree and others are very much missing what is the key element, which is the utter impunity with which members of certain communities perpetrated these crimes, due to the authorities actively protecting them for the sake of community relations. That is what led to the epic proportions of the abuse - our own authorities and their fetishisation of community relations above all other considerations.bondegezou said:
It’s been brushed under the carpet in some ways, but not in others. I agree with Cyclefree’s earlier remarks where she said, “It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.”Cookie said:
It happens because while those in power consider the mass rape of girls in towns like Rochdale "bad", they consider it less bad than the possibility that tge population might take a sub-optimal view of immigration from Islamic countries. So it's brushed under the carpet.Cyclefree said:
Anyone looking at the IICSA Reports already knows that Rochdale and Rotherham were not one-offs. The extent of child sexual abuse is horrible; the refusal of authorities - from the police to local authorities to schools, churches and the rest - is endemic and also goes back decades.Casino_Royale said:
It's deeply upsetting and, I fear, very far from a one off.Gardenwalker said:
The Rochdale scandal is like a grotesque family skeleton that lurks in the closet, waiting to burst out and scatter its bones across the kitchen table.Andy_JS said:
He's right, as usual.williamglenn said:Is he wrong?
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874423327789551778
So many people at all levels of power in the UK need to be in prison for this.
And it is not restricted to any one culture or race or religion either. The main common factor is that the perpetrators are men - of all types, ages and classes - and that the victims are children: mostly girls but not exclusively so.
It happens because we do not take such sexual violence seriously and because there is also a disdain for working class girls and a belief that somehow the victims are complicit. We do not take the safeguarding of children seriously. We do not value them as we ought.
If we did we would not allow men convicted of possession of images of children being abused (some babies and in unimaginably horrible ways) to walk free from court, as happens all too often. We would be insisting that the government took seriously the recommendations of the IICSA Reports seriously instead of burying it them in a drawer somewhere. We would not be honouring those who failed to protect children when they had a duty to do so (Hodge) or argued for the lowering of the age of consent to allow sex with children (Hewitt) nor someone who thought that child abuse was overblown and most videos of it simulated (Fox) and so on. We would fund those who try to deal with it properly. And so on.
If we really valued our children we would be behaving very differently as a society. But we don't. Or not enough. We only get outraged - some of us anyway - to make points against people or groups we dislike or to hide our discomfort with the reality of what goes on and our own hypocrisy when the awful stories come to light. What, for instance, have we done or are doing for any of the girls so harmed by the grooming gangs? Have we done anything at all for them other than thank them for their bravery for giving evidence?
In some ways, Rotherham etc. have been repeatedly kept in the public eye, used to promote Islamophobia. It’s Tommy Robinson’s main shtick. Even the last Tory government got on the bandwagon to a degree and commissioned a report on grooming gangs and ethnicity. Said report then rather disappointed those who wanted a stick to use against immigration by concluding there is no clear link between grooming gangs and ethnicity/religion/immigration (as you also noted above).
Report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fd87e348fa8f54d5733f532/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf
Literature review: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version
However, instead of doing anything about the recommendations in this and other reports to tackle the problem, the issue just remains a political football. In particular, people like Leon here or Elon Musk on Twitter keep shouting about the issue because they want to promote Islamophobia. (The same people support Donald Trump being President, a man who has committed serious sexual assaults and barged into the dressing rooms at beauty pageants to see young women naked.)
We should continue to take Rotherham etc. very seriously. We should also be cognisant of those who seek to use events to forment hatred.
Society has refused to face up to elements of Islam and some foreign cultures which are problematic, to put it mildly. It has also refused - and is continuing to refuse to - face up to elements of our own society's culture and behaviour which are equally problematic. I do not downplay the issues with Asian grooming gangs but we make a big mistake in thinking that this is all down to them. And an equally big mistake in thinking that this is the only example of the authorities turning a blind eye or covering up matters which embarrass them.
I've argued on here before that this might be a problem we need to address as a society, and I get told that the criminal justice system is working just fine. But in other crimes, say of property crime, or assault, witnesses are not routinely disbelieved as they are in crimes of sexual violence.
Society is not willing to accept that the numbers of perpetrators of violence against women and girls is as high as it is, and so it finds excuses to minimise those numbers and to only convict a small fraction of those responsible. To admit that the number of men who commit these crimes is much higher is too terrifying to contemplate. Pretending that this is mainly a problem of Muslim perpetrators is part of this same exercise in denial.
If young people stop making clothing choices that I disapprove of, then I will know that I no longer live in a free society, and that I should have done more to defend a free society years earlier.4 -
If it were Alamo or Sixt, then maybe - I've never heard of this Turo before?LostPassword said:
That sounds like a remarkable coincidence - but how many large nationwide car rental firms are there? Not many, I would guess.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sky have just said both vehicles were hired from the same car agency !DecrepiterJohnL said:
If it is a bomb, and we should note that Elon Musk seems open-minded, but if it is a bomb then the question arises: was there common purpose between the exploding Tesla driver and the New Orleans killer, whose car was also electric and contained explosives?RochdalePioneers said:
Of course it’s a bomb.Newage said:This looks like a planned attack.
Not a battery fire. Notice all the small concussion explosions after the initial boom.
This looks like a bomb in the bed of the truck.
https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/18745440067824685361 -
I knew I could rely on @Malmesbury to get to the nub of the issue.2
-
Peer-to-peer car rental, founded 2008.Driver said:
If it were Alamo or Sixt, then maybe - I've never heard of this Turo before?LostPassword said:
That sounds like a remarkable coincidence - but how many large nationwide car rental firms are there? Not many, I would guess.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sky have just said both vehicles were hired from the same car agency !DecrepiterJohnL said:
If it is a bomb, and we should note that Elon Musk seems open-minded, but if it is a bomb then the question arises: was there common purpose between the exploding Tesla driver and the New Orleans killer, whose car was also electric and contained explosives?RochdalePioneers said:
Of course it’s a bomb.Newage said:This looks like a planned attack.
Not a battery fire. Notice all the small concussion explosions after the initial boom.
This looks like a bomb in the bed of the truck.
https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/1874544006782468536
Not uncommon.
Apparently also operates in the UK.
0
This discussion has been closed.