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Naughty and nice. Who is on Santa’s list? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,212
edited December 17 in General
Naughty and nice. Who is on Santa’s list? – politicalbetting.com

Which public figures do Britons believe have earned a place on Santa's naughty or nice list? ??Trump, Musk and Farage top the naughty list, whilst NHS workers and the Prince and Princess of Wales top the nice list. For the full poll, click here https://t.co/dfZdBc0vga pic.twitter.com/VxEgOLo8E0

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Musk! With a British grandparent he still has time to become a citizen and then our next PM.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,413
    edited December 15
    First on the nice list

    EDIT: Second on the nice list
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    First on the nice list

    EDIT: Second on the nice list

    Naughty!
  • Musk! With a British grandparent he still has time to become a citizen and then our next PM.

    You don't need to be a British citizen to be UK PM.

    Plus Bonar Law was a Maple Leaf.
  • Betfair has this morning settled the Trump/Kamala vote percentage markets.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,355
    edited December 15

    Musk! With a British grandparent he still has time to become a citizen and then our next PM.

    Unlike America, we aren't a nativist country.

    Two of our last four PMs have had non-British grandparents.
  • Betfair has this morning settled the Trump/Kamala vote percentage markets.

    They are to be congratulated on their promptness.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    Entirely predictable, pointless, unenlightening and silly.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,393
    edited December 15

    Musk! With a British grandparent he still has time to become a citizen and then our next PM.

    Unlike America, we aren't a nativist country.

    Two of our last five PMs have had non-British grandparents.
    We have had a foreign Prime Minister (Bonar Law was Canadian) and might have had one more recently had kiwi Bryan Gould been elected leader of the Labour Party after Neil Kinnock.

    ETA scooped by TSE on ABL.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,140

    Entirely predictable, pointless, unenlightening and silly.

    Agreed, but we have moved on from Boris in this thread.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,351
    edited December 15
    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear of mine. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. The family will actually get the standard off peak walk up fare for around £20 each.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with their online pricing. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,140
    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear for the day. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. They will get the standard adult walk up fare for, I think, around £24-£25.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with this. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    £80 for a 30 min train journey? Should be criminal. A taxi would be substantially cheaper for just 1 person.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    edited December 15
    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear for the day. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. They will get the standard adult walk up fare for, I think, around £24-£25.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with this. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I think it is a glitch.

    On the TPE app it is £18.20 return plebian class.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,351

    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear for the day. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. They will get the standard adult walk up fare for, I think, around £24-£25.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with this. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I think it is a glitch.

    On the TPE app it is £18.20 return plebian class.
    It is a persistent glitch that has been occurring regularly for the last 2-3 years, and may be National Rail specific (I don't tend to look at Trainline etc.).

    And it only tends to occur when there are notices on the services - busy weekend, strikes, engineering with fewer trains running. Typically, on a normal day, you will see the proper fare.

    No, this has a human hand behind it - someone, somewhere is doing this for a reason.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,884

    Entirely predictable, pointless, unenlightening and silly.

    ...but enough about me.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857

    Entirely predictable, pointless, unenlightening and silly.

    Santa takes a dim view of people who mock the significance of his annual review of the human race, and should be warned, I am told by an authoritative 6 year old ("a well informed source" BBC), that he collects and collates data right up to the point of going to sleep on Christmas eve.

    Casino Royale is on his watch list.
  • prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 453
    edited December 15
    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear for the day. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. They will get the standard adult walk up fare for, I think, around £24-£25.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with this. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I think it is a glitch.

    On the TPE app it is £18.20 return plebian class.
    It is a persistent glitch that has been occurring regularly for the last 2-3 years, and may be National Rail specific (I don't tend to look at Trainline etc.).

    And it only tends to occur when there are notices on the services - busy weekend, strikes, engineering with fewer trains running. Typically, on a normal day, you will see the proper fare.

    No, this has a human hand behind it - someone, somewhere is doing this for a reason.
    If that is Android, that looks like an old version of the National Rail app. I'm getting prices below £20 on both National Rail and Trainline - £17.50 on the 10:08 and £16.20 on the others.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,351

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear for the day. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. They will get the standard adult walk up fare for, I think, around £24-£25.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with this. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I think it is a glitch.

    On the TPE app it is £18.20 return plebian class.
    It is a persistent glitch that has been occurring regularly for the last 2-3 years, and may be National Rail specific (I don't tend to look at Trainline etc.).

    And it only tends to occur when there are notices on the services - busy weekend, strikes, engineering with fewer trains running. Typically, on a normal day, you will see the proper fare.

    No, this has a human hand behind it - someone, somewhere is doing this for a reason.
    If that is Android, that looks like an old version of the National Rail app. I'm getting prices below £20 on both National Rail and Trainline.
    Could be it. My phone is up for replacement at Christmas. I've never bought a ticket at these prices.

    What a very odd behaviour though, even for an old app version.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,471

    Entirely predictable, pointless, unenlightening and silly.

    That's harsh. Occasionally you make a good point.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    edited December 15

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear for the day. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. They will get the standard adult walk up fare for, I think, around £24-£25.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with this. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I think it is a glitch.

    On the TPE app it is £18.20 return plebian class.
    It is a persistent glitch that has been occurring regularly for the last 2-3 years, and may be National Rail specific (I don't tend to look at Trainline etc.).

    And it only tends to occur when there are notices on the services - busy weekend, strikes, engineering with fewer trains running. Typically, on a normal day, you will see the proper fare.

    No, this has a human hand behind it - someone, somewhere is doing this for a reason.
    If that is Android, that looks like an old version of the National Rail app. I'm getting prices below £20 on both National Rail and Trainline.
    There's an old version of the app that's adding 300% to the prices?!?

    Wild conspiracy theory: but has someone written an app that looks like a legit ticketing app but just fronts the real app while creaming off a rather greedy 300% 'commission'?

    (If not, I'm on to it this afternoon.)
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,351

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear for the day. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. They will get the standard adult walk up fare for, I think, around £24-£25.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with this. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I think it is a glitch.

    On the TPE app it is £18.20 return plebian class.
    It is a persistent glitch that has been occurring regularly for the last 2-3 years, and may be National Rail specific (I don't tend to look at Trainline etc.).

    And it only tends to occur when there are notices on the services - busy weekend, strikes, engineering with fewer trains running. Typically, on a normal day, you will see the proper fare.

    No, this has a human hand behind it - someone, somewhere is doing this for a reason.
    If that is Android, that looks like an old version of the National Rail app. I'm getting prices below £20 on both National Rail and Trainline.
    There's an old version of the app that's adding 300% to the prices?!?

    Wild conspiracy theory: but has someone written an app that looks like a legit ticketing app but just fronts the real app while creaming off a rather greedy 300% 'commission'?

    (If not, I'm on to it this afternoon.)
    I feel fairly sure it's an old version, my self-bought phone is 7.5 years old and when I look up National Rail app on Play Store, the option isn't there which usually means incompatibility of the currently available versions.

    The app I'm sure is authentic, originally loaded some years ago, and showing as v.9.6.5.2.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    edited December 15
    This bloke is on the wrong list. However, if true there is something enlightening about it (crops up most years, and it's always a vicar) as he is in deep deep trouble for noting the probable non-existence of Santa Claus - he will have been doing a Bayesian analysis I should think - but he was addressing a post graduate seminar of 10-11 year olds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/14/primary-school-children-left-in-tears-after-vicar-tells-them-santa-isnt-real

    Can anyone confirm there really are 10-11 year olds who haven't worked this out?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    algarkirk said:

    Entirely predictable, pointless, unenlightening and silly.

    Santa takes a dim view of people who mock the significance of his annual review of the human race, and should be warned, I am told by an authoritative 6 year old ("a well informed source" BBC), that he collects and collates data right up to the point of going to sleep on Christmas eve.

    Casino Royale is on his watch list.
    There are some Christmas movies, the excellent Fatman and the current Red One, that have a subplot which is essentially "people aren't scared of Santa anymore/enough"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    algarkirk said:

    This bloke is on the wrong list. However, if true there is something enlightening about it (crops up most years, and it's always a vicar) as he is in deep deep trouble for noting the probable non-existence of Santa Claus - he will have been doing a Bayesian analysis I should think - but he was addressing a post graduate seminar of 10-11 year olds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/14/primary-school-children-left-in-tears-after-vicar-tells-them-santa-isnt-real

    Can anyone confirm there really are 10-11 year olds who haven't worked this out?

    Never trust a religious Paul...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,693
    edited December 15
    algarkirk said:

    This bloke is on the wrong list. However, if true there is something enlightening about it (crops up most years, and it's always a vicar) as he is in deep deep trouble for noting the probable non-existence of Santa Claus - he will have been doing a Bayesian analysis I should think - but he was addressing a post graduate seminar of 10-11 year olds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/14/primary-school-children-left-in-tears-after-vicar-tells-them-santa-isnt-real

    Can anyone confirm there really are 10-11 year olds who haven't worked this out?

    I think 10-11 years olds believe they are humouring their parents by pretending to believe he's real!


    And Good Morning to everyone. Not sunny here today, but only a very light grey sky.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,476
    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear for the day. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. They will get the standard adult walk up fare for, I think, around £24-£25.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with this. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I think it is a glitch.

    On the TPE app it is £18.20 return plebian class.
    It is a persistent glitch that has been occurring regularly for the last 2-3 years, and may be National Rail specific (I don't tend to look at Trainline etc.).

    And it only tends to occur when there are notices on the services - busy weekend, strikes, engineering with fewer trains running. Typically, on a normal day, you will see the proper fare.

    No, this has a human hand behind it - someone, somewhere is doing this for a reason.
    If that is Android, that looks like an old version of the National Rail app. I'm getting prices below £20 on both National Rail and Trainline.
    There's an old version of the app that's adding 300% to the prices?!?

    Wild conspiracy theory: but has someone written an app that looks like a legit ticketing app but just fronts the real app while creaming off a rather greedy 300% 'commission'?

    (If not, I'm on to it this afternoon.)
    I feel fairly sure it's an old version, my self-bought phone is 7.5 years old and when I look up National Rail app on Play Store, the option isn't there which usually means incompatibility of the currently available versions.

    The app I'm sure is authentic, originally loaded some years ago, and showing as v.9.6.5.2.
    My Trainline app is also showing £18.20 return - and first class not much more! Get a new phone
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,073
    algarkirk said:

    This bloke is on the wrong list. However, if true there is something enlightening about it (crops up most years, and it's always a vicar) as he is in deep deep trouble for noting the probable non-existence of Santa Claus - he will have been doing a Bayesian analysis I should think - but he was addressing a post graduate seminar of 10-11 year olds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/14/primary-school-children-left-in-tears-after-vicar-tells-them-santa-isnt-real

    Can anyone confirm there really are 10-11 year olds who haven't worked this out?

    My eldest started questioning it about 9. I told her that if she said anything in front of her younger sister, Santa would stop leaving presents for her.

    She caught on immediately.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,956
    Parking charge case where lady was facing £1,906 of outstanding charges and fees has been discontinued by Exel Parking as have the cases of several other people. With no explanation.

    Discussed here previously.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c627zp5d0qeo
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,068

    algarkirk said:

    This bloke is on the wrong list. However, if true there is something enlightening about it (crops up most years, and it's always a vicar) as he is in deep deep trouble for noting the probable non-existence of Santa Claus - he will have been doing a Bayesian analysis I should think - but he was addressing a post graduate seminar of 10-11 year olds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/14/primary-school-children-left-in-tears-after-vicar-tells-them-santa-isnt-real

    Can anyone confirm there really are 10-11 year olds who haven't worked this out?

    I think 10-11 years olds believe they are humouring their parents by pretending to believe he's real!


    And Good Morning to everyone. Not sunny here today, but only a very light grey sky.
    Hm. Definitely a grey area with my three. My youngest, who has just turned ten, still believes. So do most of her friends. They are also all fully invested in the elves. This does seem a weirdly credulous chohort though. My oldest was definitely wise to it by this age. Middle daughter we thought was wise to it at 11, but then we had a trip to Lapland (we should have done it two years previously, but covid) and she definitely doubted her doubts.
    In any case, telling 11 year olds - including many who know - that there is no Father Christmas us just brutal. There is a period in which they know, but wish they didn't.

    How would he feel if I told his kids there is no God?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,476

    “Switzerland greenlights use of self-driving cars on motorways from March 2025”

    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/life-aging/switzerland-greenlights-use-of-self-driving-cars-on-motorways-from-march-2025/88587606

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    Leon said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear for the day. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. They will get the standard adult walk up fare for, I think, around £24-£25.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with this. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I think it is a glitch.

    On the TPE app it is £18.20 return plebian class.
    It is a persistent glitch that has been occurring regularly for the last 2-3 years, and may be National Rail specific (I don't tend to look at Trainline etc.).

    And it only tends to occur when there are notices on the services - busy weekend, strikes, engineering with fewer trains running. Typically, on a normal day, you will see the proper fare.

    No, this has a human hand behind it - someone, somewhere is doing this for a reason.
    If that is Android, that looks like an old version of the National Rail app. I'm getting prices below £20 on both National Rail and Trainline.
    There's an old version of the app that's adding 300% to the prices?!?

    Wild conspiracy theory: but has someone written an app that looks like a legit ticketing app but just fronts the real app while creaming off a rather greedy 300% 'commission'?

    (If not, I'm on to it this afternoon.)
    I feel fairly sure it's an old version, my self-bought phone is 7.5 years old and when I look up National Rail app on Play Store, the option isn't there which usually means incompatibility of the currently available versions.

    The app I'm sure is authentic, originally loaded some years ago, and showing as v.9.6.5.2.
    My Trainline app is also showing £18.20 return - and first class not much more! Get a new phone
    Trying to get my head around this though.

    The pricing data and algorithm is not going to be in the app - it's going to be held centrally. So why two versions of the app accessing the same central data should come up with two different answers is puzzling at best.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,324
    edited December 15

    Leon said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear for the day. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. They will get the standard adult walk up fare for, I think, around £24-£25.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with this. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I think it is a glitch.

    On the TPE app it is £18.20 return plebian class.
    It is a persistent glitch that has been occurring regularly for the last 2-3 years, and may be National Rail specific (I don't tend to look at Trainline etc.).

    And it only tends to occur when there are notices on the services - busy weekend, strikes, engineering with fewer trains running. Typically, on a normal day, you will see the proper fare.

    No, this has a human hand behind it - someone, somewhere is doing this for a reason.
    If that is Android, that looks like an old version of the National Rail app. I'm getting prices below £20 on both National Rail and Trainline.
    There's an old version of the app that's adding 300% to the prices?!?

    Wild conspiracy theory: but has someone written an app that looks like a legit ticketing app but just fronts the real app while creaming off a rather greedy 300% 'commission'?

    (If not, I'm on to it this afternoon.)
    I feel fairly sure it's an old version, my self-bought phone is 7.5 years old and when I look up National Rail app on Play Store, the option isn't there which usually means incompatibility of the currently available versions.

    The app I'm sure is authentic, originally loaded some years ago, and showing as v.9.6.5.2.
    My Trainline app is also showing £18.20 return - and first class not much more! Get a new phone
    Trying to get my head around this though.

    The pricing data and algorithm is not going to be in the app - it's going to be held centrally. So why two versions of the app accessing the same central data should come up with two different answers is puzzling at best.
    And the tech wonks of PB wonder why people resent the closure of booking offices ...

    If this story gets picked up, it won't do the industry's reputation any good after all the stuff about people buying tickets and then being fined because the tickets don't have the validity that they were sold as having.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    If we want the railways to be profitable hand them over to Excel.

    "Your train's 5 minutes late - that's an extra £1900 please."
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    Taz said:

    Parking charge case where lady was facing £1,906 of outstanding charges and fees has been discontinued by Exel Parking as have the cases of several other people. With no explanation.

    Discussed here previously.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c627zp5d0qeo

    Exel Parking clearly worried they were on Santa's Naughty List.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    edit
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,324

    If we want the railways to be profitable hand them over to Excel.

    "Your train's 5 minutes late - that's an extra £1900 please."

    A problem with the point?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,068

    algarkirk said:

    Entirely predictable, pointless, unenlightening and silly.

    Santa takes a dim view of people who mock the significance of his annual review of the human race, and should be warned, I am told by an authoritative 6 year old ("a well informed source" BBC), that he collects and collates data right up to the point of going to sleep on Christmas eve.

    Casino Royale is on his watch list.
    A year or two back, we did a deep dive on Santa, on PB

    1) he collects data on children without any over sight or authorisation.
    2) he breaks into children’s bedrooms on an epic scale, in addition to mass B&E of homes.
    3) his factory employs illegal aliens. In unknown, unmonitored conditions. Its remoteness is highly suggestive of poor working conditions. None of his employees are seen outside the factory. No paperwork for the factory.
    4) he flies all over the planet without a flight plan.
    5) analysis of his travel suggest travels at near rentry velocities. This violate a further tranche of laws.
    6) no welfare details on his reindeer
    7) he gives expensive presents to rich kids, nothing to really poor children.

    So you have a reactionary, safe guarding risk, habitual lawbreaker, animal abuser, who runs an illegal factory and probably abuses the staff.
    He's a god. That describes most gods.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,351

    Leon said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear for the day. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. They will get the standard adult walk up fare for, I think, around £24-£25.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with this. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I think it is a glitch.

    On the TPE app it is £18.20 return plebian class.
    It is a persistent glitch that has been occurring regularly for the last 2-3 years, and may be National Rail specific (I don't tend to look at Trainline etc.).

    And it only tends to occur when there are notices on the services - busy weekend, strikes, engineering with fewer trains running. Typically, on a normal day, you will see the proper fare.

    No, this has a human hand behind it - someone, somewhere is doing this for a reason.
    If that is Android, that looks like an old version of the National Rail app. I'm getting prices below £20 on both National Rail and Trainline.
    There's an old version of the app that's adding 300% to the prices?!?

    Wild conspiracy theory: but has someone written an app that looks like a legit ticketing app but just fronts the real app while creaming off a rather greedy 300% 'commission'?

    (If not, I'm on to it this afternoon.)
    I feel fairly sure it's an old version, my self-bought phone is 7.5 years old and when I look up National Rail app on Play Store, the option isn't there which usually means incompatibility of the currently available versions.

    The app I'm sure is authentic, originally loaded some years ago, and showing as v.9.6.5.2.
    My Trainline app is also showing £18.20 return - and first class not much more! Get a new phone
    Trying to get my head around this though.

    The pricing data and algorithm is not going to be in the app - it's going to be held centrally. So why two versions of the app accessing the same central data should come up with two different answers is puzzling at best.
    Before I send you off to crack a mystery.

    I am an utter arse.

    I had a retained setting for 4 adults and one child from another search months ago, not cleared by reloading the app this morning.

    Although without specifically clearing those settings any further, I jumped back on a little later and got the correct fare for one adult.

    Once I set back to 4 adults / 1 child, I got the elevated numbers back.

    So, any oddity in the app is merely in how/when the planner applies and resets to default on the fare options, which is a much lesser thing.

    Stand down. Nothing to see.

    What's the out and out wrongest, on a point of fact, you've ever been on PB?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,776
    Does anyone know whether the polling was done pre- or post-sandwich?

    Obviously that has been the defining political event of the year.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,423
    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear for the day. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. They will get the standard adult walk up fare for, I think, around £24-£25.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with this. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I think it is a glitch.

    On the TPE app it is £18.20 return plebian class.
    It is a persistent glitch that has been occurring regularly for the last 2-3 years, and may be National Rail specific (I don't tend to look at Trainline etc.).

    And it only tends to occur when there are notices on the services - busy weekend, strikes, engineering with fewer trains running. Typically, on a normal day, you will see the proper fare.

    No, this has a human hand behind it - someone, somewhere is doing this for a reason.
    If that is Android, that looks like an old version of the National Rail app. I'm getting prices below £20 on both National Rail and Trainline.
    There's an old version of the app that's adding 300% to the prices?!?

    Wild conspiracy theory: but has someone written an app that looks like a legit ticketing app but just fronts the real app while creaming off a rather greedy 300% 'commission'?

    (If not, I'm on to it this afternoon.)
    I feel fairly sure it's an old version, my self-bought phone is 7.5 years old and when I look up National Rail app on Play Store, the option isn't there which usually means incompatibility of the currently available versions.

    The app I'm sure is authentic, originally loaded some years ago, and showing as v.9.6.5.2.
    My Trainline app is also showing £18.20 return - and first class not much more! Get a new phone
    Trying to get my head around this though.

    The pricing data and algorithm is not going to be in the app - it's going to be held centrally. So why two versions of the app accessing the same central data should come up with two different answers is puzzling at best.
    Before I send you off to crack a mystery.

    I am an utter arse.

    I had a retained setting for 4 adults and one child from another search months ago, not cleared by reloading the app this morning.

    Although without specifically clearing those settings any further, I jumped back on a little later and got the correct fare for one adult.

    Once I set back to 4 adults / 1 child, I got the elevated numbers back.

    So, any oddity in the app is merely in how/when the planner applies and resets to default on the fare options, which is a much lesser thing.

    Stand down. Nothing to see.

    What's the out and out wrongest, on a point of fact, you've ever been on PB?
    I once used the area of a circle as an example of something. Except I did my example with pi*r, rather than pi*r^2. Which still makes me wince whenever I think of it... :(
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    Nigelb said:
    The monastery at Sednaya looks amazing.

    There's a Leon trip right there - 1500 year old building cut into the rock, with notorious prison of mass murder nearby.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear for the day. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. They will get the standard adult walk up fare for, I think, around £24-£25.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with this. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I think it is a glitch.

    On the TPE app it is £18.20 return plebian class.
    It is a persistent glitch that has been occurring regularly for the last 2-3 years, and may be National Rail specific (I don't tend to look at Trainline etc.).

    And it only tends to occur when there are notices on the services - busy weekend, strikes, engineering with fewer trains running. Typically, on a normal day, you will see the proper fare.

    No, this has a human hand behind it - someone, somewhere is doing this for a reason.
    If that is Android, that looks like an old version of the National Rail app. I'm getting prices below £20 on both National Rail and Trainline.
    There's an old version of the app that's adding 300% to the prices?!?

    Wild conspiracy theory: but has someone written an app that looks like a legit ticketing app but just fronts the real app while creaming off a rather greedy 300% 'commission'?

    (If not, I'm on to it this afternoon.)
    I feel fairly sure it's an old version, my self-bought phone is 7.5 years old and when I look up National Rail app on Play Store, the option isn't there which usually means incompatibility of the currently available versions.

    The app I'm sure is authentic, originally loaded some years ago, and showing as v.9.6.5.2.
    My Trainline app is also showing £18.20 return - and first class not much more! Get a new phone
    Trying to get my head around this though.

    The pricing data and algorithm is not going to be in the app - it's going to be held centrally. So why two versions of the app accessing the same central data should come up with two different answers is puzzling at best.
    Before I send you off to crack a mystery.

    I am an utter arse.

    I had a retained setting for 4 adults and one child from another search months ago, not cleared by reloading the app this morning.

    Although without specifically clearing those settings any further, I jumped back on a little later and got the correct fare for one adult.

    Once I set back to 4 adults / 1 child, I got the elevated numbers back.

    So, any oddity in the app is merely in how/when the planner applies and resets to default on the fare options, which is a much lesser thing.

    Stand down. Nothing to see.

    What's the out and out wrongest, on a point of fact, you've ever been on PB?
    I once used the area of a circle as an example of something. Except I did my example with pi*r, rather than pi*r^2. Which still makes me wince whenever I think of it... :(
    You got your head exactly half way around the problem ?
  • algarkirk said:

    This bloke is on the wrong list. However, if true there is something enlightening about it (crops up most years, and it's always a vicar) as he is in deep deep trouble for noting the probable non-existence of Santa Claus - he will have been doing a Bayesian analysis I should think - but he was addressing a post graduate seminar of 10-11 year olds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/14/primary-school-children-left-in-tears-after-vicar-tells-them-santa-isnt-real

    Can anyone confirm there really are 10-11 year olds who haven't worked this out?

    The Rev seems to have caused more actual upset and offence than the Masterchef Grocer.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,693
    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Entirely predictable, pointless, unenlightening and silly.

    Santa takes a dim view of people who mock the significance of his annual review of the human race, and should be warned, I am told by an authoritative 6 year old ("a well informed source" BBC), that he collects and collates data right up to the point of going to sleep on Christmas eve.

    Casino Royale is on his watch list.
    A year or two back, we did a deep dive on Santa, on PB

    1) he collects data on children without any over sight or authorisation.
    2) he breaks into children’s bedrooms on an epic scale, in addition to mass B&E of homes.
    3) his factory employs illegal aliens. In unknown, unmonitored conditions. Its remoteness is highly suggestive of poor working conditions. None of his employees are seen outside the factory. No paperwork for the factory.
    4) he flies all over the planet without a flight plan.
    5) analysis of his travel suggest travels at near rentry velocities. This violate a further tranche of laws.
    6) no welfare details on his reindeer
    7) he gives expensive presents to rich kids, nothing to really poor children.

    So you have a reactionary, safe guarding risk, habitual lawbreaker, animal abuser, who runs an illegal factory and probably abuses the staff.
    He's a god. That describes most gods.
    My Thai grandchildren are always fascinated by the NORAD 'route watcher'. They've been brought up with Thai and European traditions, so I think they go to the temple to 'make merit' to ensure Father Christmas comes!
    What their children will do or think in years to come beggars belief. Two late teenage girls, one of who has a boyfriend so presumably there'll be some great-grandchildren at some point in time. Whether or not we'll see them is somewhat unlikely.
  • Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear of mine. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. The family will actually get the standard off peak walk up fare for around £20 each.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with their online pricing. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I find Trainline best for cheapest tickets.
    Example: I was travelling from Glasgow to Crewe.
    I saved £20 by going Glasgow to Preston, then got off, waited twenty minutes for the train that had come from Edinburgh and continued to Crewe.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,693

    algarkirk said:

    This bloke is on the wrong list. However, if true there is something enlightening about it (crops up most years, and it's always a vicar) as he is in deep deep trouble for noting the probable non-existence of Santa Claus - he will have been doing a Bayesian analysis I should think - but he was addressing a post graduate seminar of 10-11 year olds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/14/primary-school-children-left-in-tears-after-vicar-tells-them-santa-isnt-real

    Can anyone confirm there really are 10-11 year olds who haven't worked this out?

    The Rev seems to have caused more actual upset and offence than the Masterchef Grocer.
    Greengrocer, please. Grocers are people of probity.
  • Carnyx said:

    If we want the railways to be profitable hand them over to Excel.

    "Your train's 5 minutes late - that's an extra £1900 please."

    A problem with the point?
    I saw a couple more upset than a primary school RE class when the ticket inspector explained how much cheaper their Paddington to Wales tickets would have been if they'd bought them on the day (or possibly six months in advance, I forget now).
  • Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear for the day. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. They will get the standard adult walk up fare for, I think, around £24-£25.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with this. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I think it is a glitch.

    On the TPE app it is £18.20 return plebian class.
    It is a persistent glitch that has been occurring regularly for the last 2-3 years, and may be National Rail specific (I don't tend to look at Trainline etc.).

    And it only tends to occur when there are notices on the services - busy weekend, strikes, engineering with fewer trains running. Typically, on a normal day, you will see the proper fare.

    No, this has a human hand behind it - someone, somewhere is doing this for a reason.
    If that is Android, that looks like an old version of the National Rail app. I'm getting prices below £20 on both National Rail and Trainline.
    There's an old version of the app that's adding 300% to the prices?!?

    Wild conspiracy theory: but has someone written an app that looks like a legit ticketing app but just fronts the real app while creaming off a rather greedy 300% 'commission'?

    (If not, I'm on to it this afternoon.)
    I feel fairly sure it's an old version, my self-bought phone is 7.5 years old and when I look up National Rail app on Play Store, the option isn't there which usually means incompatibility of the currently available versions.

    The app I'm sure is authentic, originally loaded some years ago, and showing as v.9.6.5.2.
    My Trainline app is also showing £18.20 return - and first class not much more! Get a new phone
    Trying to get my head around this though.

    The pricing data and algorithm is not going to be in the app - it's going to be held centrally. So why two versions of the app accessing the same central data should come up with two different answers is puzzling at best.
    Before I send you off to crack a mystery.

    I am an utter arse.

    I had a retained setting for 4 adults and one child from another search months ago, not cleared by reloading the app this morning.

    Although without specifically clearing those settings any further, I jumped back on a little later and got the correct fare for one adult.

    Once I set back to 4 adults / 1 child, I got the elevated numbers back.

    So, any oddity in the app is merely in how/when the planner applies and resets to default on the fare options, which is a much lesser thing.

    Stand down. Nothing to see.

    What's the out and out wrongest, on a point of fact, you've ever been on PB?
    I once used the area of a circle as an example of something. Except I did my example with pi*r, rather than pi*r^2. Which still makes me wince whenever I think of it... :(
    It shows how far we've been infected by Bill Gates' mindshifting vax nanobots that we universally use * for multiplication rather than x.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,920

    Musk! With a British grandparent he still has time to become a citizen and then our next PM.

    Many thanks for the kind thought, but....

    I am sure he is much happier being Co-President of the United States.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,029
    edited December 15

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear for the day. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. They will get the standard adult walk up fare for, I think, around £24-£25.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with this. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I think it is a glitch.

    On the TPE app it is £18.20 return plebian class.
    It is a persistent glitch that has been occurring regularly for the last 2-3 years, and may be National Rail specific (I don't tend to look at Trainline etc.).

    And it only tends to occur when there are notices on the services - busy weekend, strikes, engineering with fewer trains running. Typically, on a normal day, you will see the proper fare.

    No, this has a human hand behind it - someone, somewhere is doing this for a reason.
    If that is Android, that looks like an old version of the National Rail app. I'm getting prices below £20 on both National Rail and Trainline.
    There's an old version of the app that's adding 300% to the prices?!?

    Wild conspiracy theory: but has someone written an app that looks like a legit ticketing app but just fronts the real app while creaming off a rather greedy 300% 'commission'?

    (If not, I'm on to it this afternoon.)
    I feel fairly sure it's an old version, my self-bought phone is 7.5 years old and when I look up National Rail app on Play Store, the option isn't there which usually means incompatibility of the currently available versions.

    The app I'm sure is authentic, originally loaded some years ago, and showing as v.9.6.5.2.
    My Trainline app is also showing £18.20 return - and first class not much more! Get a new phone
    Trying to get my head around this though.

    The pricing data and algorithm is not going to be in the app - it's going to be held centrally. So why two versions of the app accessing the same central data should come up with two different answers is puzzling at best.
    Before I send you off to crack a mystery.

    I am an utter arse.

    I had a retained setting for 4 adults and one child from another search months ago, not cleared by reloading the app this morning.

    Although without specifically clearing those settings any further, I jumped back on a little later and got the correct fare for one adult.

    Once I set back to 4 adults / 1 child, I got the elevated numbers back.

    So, any oddity in the app is merely in how/when the planner applies and resets to default on the fare options, which is a much lesser thing.

    Stand down. Nothing to see.

    What's the out and out wrongest, on a point of fact, you've ever been on PB?
    I once used the area of a circle as an example of something. Except I did my example with pi*r, rather than pi*r^2. Which still makes me wince whenever I think of it... :(
    It shows how far we've been infected by Bill Gates' mindshifting vax nanobots that we universally use * for multiplication rather than x.
    You wouldn’t want to confuse it with the variable x. Of course, connoisseurs use \times.
  • ARISE SIR GARETH Ex-England boss Gareth Southgate to get knighthood in the New Year ­Honours List
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/32309413/gareth-southgate-knighthood-new-years-honours/

    As this is PB, has anyone checked what variety of pizza he advertised?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    Schrodinger's cat walks into a bar... or maybe it doesn't.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,488

    algarkirk said:

    This bloke is on the wrong list. However, if true there is something enlightening about it (crops up most years, and it's always a vicar) as he is in deep deep trouble for noting the probable non-existence of Santa Claus - he will have been doing a Bayesian analysis I should think - but he was addressing a post graduate seminar of 10-11 year olds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/14/primary-school-children-left-in-tears-after-vicar-tells-them-santa-isnt-real

    Can anyone confirm there really are 10-11 year olds who haven't worked this out?

    The Rev seems to have caused more actual upset and offence than the Masterchef Grocer.
    far more seriuos than a bit of greengrocer banter about the size of your onions
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,693
    malcolmg said:

    algarkirk said:

    This bloke is on the wrong list. However, if true there is something enlightening about it (crops up most years, and it's always a vicar) as he is in deep deep trouble for noting the probable non-existence of Santa Claus - he will have been doing a Bayesian analysis I should think - but he was addressing a post graduate seminar of 10-11 year olds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/14/primary-school-children-left-in-tears-after-vicar-tells-them-santa-isnt-real

    Can anyone confirm there really are 10-11 year olds who haven't worked this out?

    The Rev seems to have caused more actual upset and offence than the Masterchef Grocer.
    far more seriuos than a bit of greengrocer banter about the size of your onions
    There's a character in one of Compton Mackenzie's Whisky Galore novels who says that "greengrocers are always miserable. I think they're worried about whatever it is they're selling going off."
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,212
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:
    The monastery at Sednaya looks amazing.

    There's a Leon trip right there - 1500 year old building cut into the rock, with notorious prison of mass murder nearby.
    I’m really keen to visit myself if things get properly calm. It would be number 1 on the list if it becomes properly safe.

    For that to happen, Hezbollah needs to give up, Israel needs to stop messing around in the South and the Kurds and HTS need to come to an agreement that Erdogan will respect.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,488

    malcolmg said:

    algarkirk said:

    This bloke is on the wrong list. However, if true there is something enlightening about it (crops up most years, and it's always a vicar) as he is in deep deep trouble for noting the probable non-existence of Santa Claus - he will have been doing a Bayesian analysis I should think - but he was addressing a post graduate seminar of 10-11 year olds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/14/primary-school-children-left-in-tears-after-vicar-tells-them-santa-isnt-real

    Can anyone confirm there really are 10-11 year olds who haven't worked this out?

    The Rev seems to have caused more actual upset and offence than the Masterchef Grocer.
    far more seriuos than a bit of greengrocer banter about the size of your onions
    There's a character in one of Compton Mackenzie's Whisky Galore novels who says that "greengrocers are always miserable. I think they're worried about whatever it is they're selling going off."
    Time is money for them , if only they had kept the stocks going life would have been easier for them.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,220
    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear of mine. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. The family will actually get the standard off peak walk up fare for around £20 each.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with their online pricing. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I get £18.20 on the website:

    https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/journey-planner/?type=return&origin=HUD&destination=115&leavingType=departing&leavingDate=151224&leavingHour=11&leavingMin=30&returnType=departing&returnDate=151224&returnHour=16&returnMin=30&adults=1&extraTime=0#O
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198

    Musk! With a British grandparent he still has time to become a citizen and then our next PM.

    Unlike America, we aren't a nativist country.

    Two of our last five PMs have had non-British grandparents.
    We have had a foreign Prime Minister (Bonar Law was Canadian) and might have had one more recently had kiwi Bryan Gould been elected leader of the Labour Party after Neil Kinnock.

    ETA scooped by TSE on ABL.
    And God knows where Liz Truss is from. Narnia, I think.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:
    The monastery at Sednaya looks amazing.

    There's a Leon trip right there - 1500 year old building cut into the rock, with notorious prison of mass murder nearby.
    I’m really keen to visit myself if things get properly calm. It would be number 1 on the list if it becomes properly safe.

    For that to happen, Hezbollah needs to give up, Israel needs to stop messing around in the South and the Kurds and HTS need to come to an agreement that Erdogan will respect.
    So next Thursday then?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,471
    algarkirk said:

    This bloke is on the wrong list. However, if true there is something enlightening about it (crops up most years, and it's always a vicar) as he is in deep deep trouble for noting the probable non-existence of Santa Claus - he will have been doing a Bayesian analysis I should think - but he was addressing a post graduate seminar of 10-11 year olds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/14/primary-school-children-left-in-tears-after-vicar-tells-them-santa-isnt-real

    Can anyone confirm there really are 10-11 year olds who haven't worked this out?

    I can.
    Not the majority, but there are a few.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198

    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear of mine. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. The family will actually get the standard off peak walk up fare for around £20 each.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with their online pricing. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I find Trainline best for cheapest tickets.
    Example: I was travelling from Glasgow to Crewe.
    I saved £20 by going Glasgow to Preston, then got off, waited twenty minutes for the train that had come from Edinburgh and continued to Crewe.
    National Rail has also managed to completely destroy its own app. The advertising they added means it now just doesn’t work.

    Since every third party app HAS to use their data, I suspect there was another way to boost revenues.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    Zelensky offering Syria 'Grain from Ukraine.'

    If only Ukraine were part of Russia then Putin could properly weaponise global food supplies.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,212

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:
    The monastery at Sednaya looks amazing.

    There's a Leon trip right there - 1500 year old building cut into the rock, with notorious prison of mass murder nearby.
    I’m really keen to visit myself if things get properly calm. It would be number 1 on the list if it becomes properly safe.

    For that to happen, Hezbollah needs to give up, Israel needs to stop messing around in the South and the Kurds and HTS need to come to an agreement that Erdogan will respect.
    So next Thursday then?
    I don’t think any of those are beyond hope in the window of the next year. Hezbollah have seemingly already given up because they are squeezed out and likely to return to their Lebanese base; Israel is being opportunistic but HTS should be in a position to negotiate something with them. The Kurdish issue is the more difficult given Turkey’s position.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,693
    biggles said:

    Musk! With a British grandparent he still has time to become a citizen and then our next PM.

    Unlike America, we aren't a nativist country.

    Two of our last five PMs have had non-British grandparents.
    We have had a foreign Prime Minister (Bonar Law was Canadian) and might have had one more recently had kiwi Bryan Gould been elected leader of the Labour Party after Neil Kinnock.

    ETA scooped by TSE on ABL.
    And God knows where Liz Truss is from. Narnia, I think.
    Yorkshire isn't it? Wasn't/isn't her father a professor at Leeds Uni?
  • CHartCHart Posts: 48
    Such a miserable atmosphere in this country at present. If any country could be said to be suffering from clinical depression its the uk. The number of people who have said to me people dont smile or want to talk anymore. Sad to see.
  • algarkirk said:

    This bloke is on the wrong list. However, if true there is something enlightening about it (crops up most years, and it's always a vicar) as he is in deep deep trouble for noting the probable non-existence of Santa Claus - he will have been doing a Bayesian analysis I should think - but he was addressing a post graduate seminar of 10-11 year olds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/14/primary-school-children-left-in-tears-after-vicar-tells-them-santa-isnt-real

    Can anyone confirm there really are 10-11 year olds who haven't worked this out?

    I think the break point is when kids go to senior school. At infant/Junior school there is a general acceptance that no one mentions the reality even if there is a nod and a wink amongst the oldest children. Once they are going up to senior school the aim is to ensure that, even if they are still pretending to believe, they don't expose themselves to ridicule or a hard landing from the bigger kids.

    But the bottom line is the vicar was being a complete arse. Particularly for someone who believes in another non existent mythical being.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,029
    CHart said:

    Such a miserable atmosphere in this country at present. If any country could be said to be suffering from clinical depression its the uk. The number of people who have said to me people dont smile or want to talk anymore. Sad to see.

    It’s winter, what do you expect?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:
    The monastery at Sednaya looks amazing.

    There's a Leon trip right there - 1500 year old building cut into the rock, with notorious prison of mass murder nearby.
    I’m really keen to visit myself if things get properly calm. It would be number 1 on the list if it becomes properly safe.

    For that to happen, Hezbollah needs to give up, Israel needs to stop messing around in the South and the Kurds and HTS need to come to an agreement that Erdogan will respect.
    HTS and the Kurds are reportedly close to some sort of agreement. Whether it meets any if Erdogan's criteria is another matter.
  • CHartCHart Posts: 48
    RobD said:

    CHart said:

    Such a miserable atmosphere in this country at present. If any country could be said to be suffering from clinical depression its the uk. The number of people who have said to me people dont smile or want to talk anymore. Sad to see.

    It’s winter, what do you expect?
    No i expect it to be more miserable in winter but go back 10 years it wasnt like this. Certainly not in the runup to xmas. Im also shocked by the number of old people who have told me they dont want to live anymore.
  • biggles said:

    Musk! With a British grandparent he still has time to become a citizen and then our next PM.

    Unlike America, we aren't a nativist country.

    Two of our last five PMs have had non-British grandparents.
    We have had a foreign Prime Minister (Bonar Law was Canadian) and might have had one more recently had kiwi Bryan Gould been elected leader of the Labour Party after Neil Kinnock.

    ETA scooped by TSE on ABL.
    And God knows where Liz Truss is from. Narnia, I think.
    Yorkshire isn't it? Wasn't/isn't her father a professor at Leeds Uni?
    You are thinking of Harold Wilson. He was from Yorkshire and his son was a professor at the Open University.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Wilson_(mathematician)
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    biggles said:

    Musk! With a British grandparent he still has time to become a citizen and then our next PM.

    Unlike America, we aren't a nativist country.

    Two of our last five PMs have had non-British grandparents.
    We have had a foreign Prime Minister (Bonar Law was Canadian) and might have had one more recently had kiwi Bryan Gould been elected leader of the Labour Party after Neil Kinnock.

    ETA scooped by TSE on ABL.
    And God knows where Liz Truss is from. Narnia, I think.
    Yorkshire born and bred. Though I know some do see a similarity with Narnia.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,073

    algarkirk said:

    This bloke is on the wrong list. However, if true there is something enlightening about it (crops up most years, and it's always a vicar) as he is in deep deep trouble for noting the probable non-existence of Santa Claus - he will have been doing a Bayesian analysis I should think - but he was addressing a post graduate seminar of 10-11 year olds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/14/primary-school-children-left-in-tears-after-vicar-tells-them-santa-isnt-real

    Can anyone confirm there really are 10-11 year olds who haven't worked this out?

    I think the break point is when kids go to senior school. At infant/Junior school there is a general acceptance that no one mentions the reality even if there is a nod and a wink amongst the oldest children. Once they are going up to senior school the aim is to ensure that, even if they are still pretending to believe, they don't expose themselves to ridicule or a hard landing from the bigger kids.

    But the bottom line is the vicar was being a complete arse. Particularly for someone who believes in another non existent mythical being.
    “God was my copilot. But we crashed in the mountains. So I ate him.”

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,945
    Interesting 50 minute video on demographic decline:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzP50zl-6_g

    A brief but important note was that women are likelier in the West to get higher education but relationships/marriage/fertility seem to work best when the man is slightly higher status than the woman. In short, women like moving slightly 'up' with a man and don't like moving down, yet women are doing better than men at education, which is a significant part of that.

    Also interesting to note that the UK, as far as I could tell, is forecast to have the lowest population decline in Europe, just 4% to 2100.
  • CHartCHart Posts: 48

    Interesting 50 minute video on demographic decline:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzP50zl-6_g

    A brief but important note was that women are likelier in the West to get higher education but relationships/marriage/fertility seem to work best when the man is slightly higher status than the woman. In short, women like moving slightly 'up' with a man and don't like moving down, yet women are doing better than men at education, which is a significant part of that.

    Also interesting to note that the UK, as far as I could tell, is forecast to have the lowest population decline in Europe, just 4% to 2100.

    Yes its not just that. There is now active positive discrimination in favour of women in the workplace which adds to the problem. This is artificially boosting womens status at the expense of men.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,029
    edited December 15
    CHart said:

    Interesting 50 minute video on demographic decline:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzP50zl-6_g

    A brief but important note was that women are likelier in the West to get higher education but relationships/marriage/fertility seem to work best when the man is slightly higher status than the woman. In short, women like moving slightly 'up' with a man and don't like moving down, yet women are doing better than men at education, which is a significant part of that.

    Also interesting to note that the UK, as far as I could tell, is forecast to have the lowest population decline in Europe, just 4% to 2100.

    Yes its not just that. There is now active positive discrimination in favour of women in the workplace which adds to the problem. This is artificially boosting womens status at the expense of men.
    Women: know your place.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,945
    CHart said:

    Interesting 50 minute video on demographic decline:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzP50zl-6_g

    A brief but important note was that women are likelier in the West to get higher education but relationships/marriage/fertility seem to work best when the man is slightly higher status than the woman. In short, women like moving slightly 'up' with a man and don't like moving down, yet women are doing better than men at education, which is a significant part of that.

    Also interesting to note that the UK, as far as I could tell, is forecast to have the lowest population decline in Europe, just 4% to 2100.

    Yes its not just that. There is now active positive discrimination in favour of women in the workplace which adds to the problem. This is artificially boosting womens status at the expense of men.
    Welcome to PB, Mr. Hart.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    edited December 15

    biggles said:

    Musk! With a British grandparent he still has time to become a citizen and then our next PM.

    Unlike America, we aren't a nativist country.

    Two of our last five PMs have had non-British grandparents.
    We have had a foreign Prime Minister (Bonar Law was Canadian) and might have had one more recently had kiwi Bryan Gould been elected leader of the Labour Party after Neil Kinnock.

    ETA scooped by TSE on ABL.
    And God knows where Liz Truss is from. Narnia, I think.
    Yorkshire isn't it? Wasn't/isn't her father a professor at Leeds Uni?
    No. Definitely not human. You can tell by the eyes. Maybe assembled here?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198

    Interesting 50 minute video on demographic decline:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzP50zl-6_g

    A brief but important note was that women are likelier in the West to get higher education but relationships/marriage/fertility seem to work best when the man is slightly higher status than the woman. In short, women like moving slightly 'up' with a man and don't like moving down, yet women are doing better than men at education, which is a significant part of that.

    Also interesting to note that the UK, as far as I could tell, is forecast to have the lowest population decline in Europe, just 4% to 2100.

    I would test this theory, but I am far too scared of Mrs Biggles to ask if she would consider herself “slightly lower status”.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,940
    CHart said:

    Such a miserable atmosphere in this country at present. If any country could be said to be suffering from clinical depression its the uk. The number of people who have said to me people dont smile or want to talk anymore. Sad to see.

    Do you have any advice for a mid-range PC monitor? It's time for me to upgrade and need something that can help me sustain a 12 hour argument with @Barty about pavement widths.

    (Your previous iterations have been very helpful on vaccuum cleaners and food processors).
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    CHart said:

    Interesting 50 minute video on demographic decline:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzP50zl-6_g

    A brief but important note was that women are likelier in the West to get higher education but relationships/marriage/fertility seem to work best when the man is slightly higher status than the woman. In short, women like moving slightly 'up' with a man and don't like moving down, yet women are doing better than men at education, which is a significant part of that.

    Also interesting to note that the UK, as far as I could tell, is forecast to have the lowest population decline in Europe, just 4% to 2100.

    Yes its not just that. There is now active positive discrimination in favour of women in the workplace which adds to the problem. This is artificially boosting womens status at the expense of men.
    Welcome to pb.

    Or welcome back if you're one of those.
  • CHartCHart Posts: 48
    RobD said:

    CHart said:

    Interesting 50 minute video on demographic decline:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzP50zl-6_g

    A brief but important note was that women are likelier in the West to get higher education but relationships/marriage/fertility seem to work best when the man is slightly higher status than the woman. In short, women like moving slightly 'up' with a man and don't like moving down, yet women are doing better than men at education, which is a significant part of that.

    Also interesting to note that the UK, as far as I could tell, is forecast to have the lowest population decline in Europe, just 4% to 2100.

    Yes its not just that. There is now active positive discrimination in favour of women in the workplace which adds to the problem. This is artificially boosting womens status at the expense of men.
    Women: know your place.
    Easy answer to make but if its causing our birthrate to collapse we have a problem. A collapsing birthrate means we need to rely on mass immigration and people dont seem too happy about that.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,693

    biggles said:

    Musk! With a British grandparent he still has time to become a citizen and then our next PM.

    Unlike America, we aren't a nativist country.

    Two of our last five PMs have had non-British grandparents.
    We have had a foreign Prime Minister (Bonar Law was Canadian) and might have had one more recently had kiwi Bryan Gould been elected leader of the Labour Party after Neil Kinnock.

    ETA scooped by TSE on ABL.
    And God knows where Liz Truss is from. Narnia, I think.
    Yorkshire isn't it? Wasn't/isn't her father a professor at Leeds Uni?
    You are thinking of Harold Wilson. He was from Yorkshire and his son was a professor at the Open University.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Wilson_(mathematician)
    No, I'm not. She talked disparagingly about going to a well-regarded comprehensive school in Leeds, didn't she? And caused a lot of annoyance among fellow alumni.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,073
    CHart said:

    Interesting 50 minute video on demographic decline:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzP50zl-6_g

    A brief but important note was that women are likelier in the West to get higher education but relationships/marriage/fertility seem to work best when the man is slightly higher status than the woman. In short, women like moving slightly 'up' with a man and don't like moving down, yet women are doing better than men at education, which is a significant part of that.

    Also interesting to note that the UK, as far as I could tell, is forecast to have the lowest population decline in Europe, just 4% to 2100.

    Yes its not just that. There is now active positive discrimination in favour of women in the workplace which adds to the problem. This is artificially boosting womens status at the expense of men.
    Welcome to PB

    If a plane crashes on the Ukraine/Republic of China border, which side do you bury the survivors?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,693

    CHart said:

    Interesting 50 minute video on demographic decline:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzP50zl-6_g

    A brief but important note was that women are likelier in the West to get higher education but relationships/marriage/fertility seem to work best when the man is slightly higher status than the woman. In short, women like moving slightly 'up' with a man and don't like moving down, yet women are doing better than men at education, which is a significant part of that.

    Also interesting to note that the UK, as far as I could tell, is forecast to have the lowest population decline in Europe, just 4% to 2100.

    Yes its not just that. There is now active positive discrimination in favour of women in the workplace which adds to the problem. This is artificially boosting womens status at the expense of men.
    Welcome to PB

    If a plane crashes on the Ukraine/Republic of China border, which side do you bury the survivors?
    Is there such a thing? Yet?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,073
    edited December 15
    CHart said:

    RobD said:

    CHart said:

    Interesting 50 minute video on demographic decline:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzP50zl-6_g

    A brief but important note was that women are likelier in the West to get higher education but relationships/marriage/fertility seem to work best when the man is slightly higher status than the woman. In short, women like moving slightly 'up' with a man and don't like moving down, yet women are doing better than men at education, which is a significant part of that.

    Also interesting to note that the UK, as far as I could tell, is forecast to have the lowest population decline in Europe, just 4% to 2100.

    Yes its not just that. There is now active positive discrimination in favour of women in the workplace which adds to the problem. This is artificially boosting womens status at the expense of men.
    Women: know your place.
    Easy answer to make but if its causing our birthrate to collapse we have a problem. A collapsing birthrate means we need to rely on mass immigration and people dont seem too happy about that.
    It isn’t.

    If you talk to women as people, you will find that a major concern with having children is housing space. That’s on top of all the expenses of bringing up children.

    Living in a 1 bed flat doesn’t exactly encourage 2 child families….
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,029

    CHart said:

    RobD said:

    CHart said:

    Interesting 50 minute video on demographic decline:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzP50zl-6_g

    A brief but important note was that women are likelier in the West to get higher education but relationships/marriage/fertility seem to work best when the man is slightly higher status than the woman. In short, women like moving slightly 'up' with a man and don't like moving down, yet women are doing better than men at education, which is a significant part of that.

    Also interesting to note that the UK, as far as I could tell, is forecast to have the lowest population decline in Europe, just 4% to 2100.

    Yes its not just that. There is now active positive discrimination in favour of women in the workplace which adds to the problem. This is artificially boosting womens status at the expense of men.
    Women: know your place.
    Easy answer to make but if its causing our birthrate to collapse we have a problem. A collapsing birthrate means we need to rely on mass immigration and people dont seem too happy about that.
    It isn’t.

    If you talk to women as people, you will find that a major concern with having children is housing space. That’s on top of all the expenses of bringing up children.

    Living in a 1 bed flat doesn’t exactly encourage 2 child families….
    We need living space.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,158

    Pro_Rata said:

    Tis the season for pap polling.

    So, quickly off topic and my picture quota for the day of an absolute bugbear of mine. The girls are off Christmas shopping for the day and plans have worked out such to say it's a train job.

    Advertised return second class fares on National Rail as below. The family will actually get the standard off peak walk up fare for around £20 each.

    I know it's a clumsy attempt at demand management and Manchester will be rammed today with everything, but why, why, why are they being quite such completely stupid buggers with their online pricing. Are they catching the younger generation to whom it wouldn't even occur to visit a ticket office and get a paper ticket:


    I find Trainline best for cheapest tickets.
    Example: I was travelling from Glasgow to Crewe.
    I saved £20 by going Glasgow to Preston, then got off, waited twenty minutes for the train that had come from Edinburgh and continued to Crewe.
    Trainline. No thank you. They charge a booking fee for tickets that can be bought with no fee from plenty of other sources.

    If you want to use a site that offers split ticketing, and much greater flexibility in specifying journey requirements, try:

    https://tickets.railforums.co.uk
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,316
    On topic, the fact that Santa is an anagram of Satan is all the evidence I need.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,004

    algarkirk said:

    Entirely predictable, pointless, unenlightening and silly.

    Santa takes a dim view of people who mock the significance of his annual review of the human race, and should be warned, I am told by an authoritative 6 year old ("a well informed source" BBC), that he collects and collates data right up to the point of going to sleep on Christmas eve.

    Casino Royale is on his watch list.
    A year or two back, we did a deep dive on Santa, on PB

    1) he collects data on children without any over sight or authorisation.
    2) he breaks into children’s bedrooms on an epic scale, in addition to mass B&E of homes.
    3) his factory employs illegal aliens. In unknown, unmonitored conditions. Its remoteness is highly suggestive of poor working conditions. None of his employees are seen outside the factory. No paperwork for the factory.
    4) he flies all over the planet without a flight plan.
    5) analysis of his travel suggest travels at near rentry velocities. This violate a further tranche of laws.
    6) no welfare details on his reindeer
    7) he gives expensive presents to rich kids, nothing to really poor children.

    So you have a reactionary, safe guarding risk, habitual lawbreaker, animal abuser, who runs an illegal factory and probably abuses the staff.
    We don't all work in the factory
    Santa's operation is more like an office. Masses of people you've never heard of do all the work and then a man in flashy suit comes along and takes all the credit.
  • CHartCHart Posts: 48

    CHart said:

    RobD said:

    CHart said:

    Interesting 50 minute video on demographic decline:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzP50zl-6_g

    A brief but important note was that women are likelier in the West to get higher education but relationships/marriage/fertility seem to work best when the man is slightly higher status than the woman. In short, women like moving slightly 'up' with a man and don't like moving down, yet women are doing better than men at education, which is a significant part of that.

    Also interesting to note that the UK, as far as I could tell, is forecast to have the lowest population decline in Europe, just 4% to 2100.

    Yes its not just that. There is now active positive discrimination in favour of women in the workplace which adds to the problem. This is artificially boosting womens status at the expense of men.
    Women: know your place.
    Easy answer to make but if its causing our birthrate to collapse we have a problem. A collapsing birthrate means we need to rely on mass immigration and people dont seem too happy about that.
    It isn’t.

    If you talk to women as people, you will find that a major concern with having children is housing space. That’s on top of all the expenses of bringing up children.

    Living in a 1 bed flat doesn’t exactly encourage 2 child families….
    Exactly. The massive housing bubble is also a massive cause of this which doesnt encourage family formation. But my original point still stands we are also artificially enhancing womens status at the expense of men which doesnt encourage stable relationships and family formation. Look we can run society for the benefit of women as long as we are willing to accept lower living standards. Some people might be ok with this.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,630

    algarkirk said:

    This bloke is on the wrong list. However, if true there is something enlightening about it (crops up most years, and it's always a vicar) as he is in deep deep trouble for noting the probable non-existence of Santa Claus - he will have been doing a Bayesian analysis I should think - but he was addressing a post graduate seminar of 10-11 year olds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/14/primary-school-children-left-in-tears-after-vicar-tells-them-santa-isnt-real

    Can anyone confirm there really are 10-11 year olds who haven't worked this out?

    I think the break point is when kids go to senior school. At infant/Junior school there is a general acceptance that no one mentions the reality even if there is a nod and a wink amongst the oldest children. Once they are going up to senior school the aim is to ensure that, even if they are still pretending to believe, they don't expose themselves to ridicule or a hard landing from the bigger kids.

    But the bottom line is the vicar was being a complete arse. Particularly for someone who believes in another non existent mythical being.
    I used to believe in Santa and it added greatly to the magic of Christmas. What's odd is I can't remember when I stopped. I know I believed at 7 and I know I didn't believe at 10 but I don't recall the actual revelation - which must have occurred at some point in those 3 years - of the crushing truth that "Santa" was my dad and all the other kids' Santas was their dads, just filling up stockings and putting presents under trees and consuming that left-out mince pie and brandy after we'd all gone to bed. Did somebody tell me? Did my burgeoning powers of logic work it out? You'd have thought I'd remember something as traumatic as that.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    Poor Piers Morgan. Down in 6th place on the naughty list. Or perhaps he'll just be happy to be mentioned alongside the big boys? Is Putin regarded as ineligible for 'naughty'?
  • CHartCHart Posts: 48
    RobD said:

    CHart said:

    RobD said:

    CHart said:

    Interesting 50 minute video on demographic decline:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzP50zl-6_g

    A brief but important note was that women are likelier in the West to get higher education but relationships/marriage/fertility seem to work best when the man is slightly higher status than the woman. In short, women like moving slightly 'up' with a man and don't like moving down, yet women are doing better than men at education, which is a significant part of that.

    Also interesting to note that the UK, as far as I could tell, is forecast to have the lowest population decline in Europe, just 4% to 2100.

    Yes its not just that. There is now active positive discrimination in favour of women in the workplace which adds to the problem. This is artificially boosting womens status at the expense of men.
    Women: know your place.
    Easy answer to make but if its causing our birthrate to collapse we have a problem. A collapsing birthrate means we need to rely on mass immigration and people dont seem too happy about that.
    It isn’t.

    If you talk to women as people, you will find that a major concern with having children is housing space. That’s on top of all the expenses of bringing up children.

    Living in a 1 bed flat doesn’t exactly encourage 2 child families….
    We need living space.
    To be fair middle class graduates living in the se are becoming the new proletariat.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,324

    biggles said:

    Musk! With a British grandparent he still has time to become a citizen and then our next PM.

    Unlike America, we aren't a nativist country.

    Two of our last five PMs have had non-British grandparents.
    We have had a foreign Prime Minister (Bonar Law was Canadian) and might have had one more recently had kiwi Bryan Gould been elected leader of the Labour Party after Neil Kinnock.

    ETA scooped by TSE on ABL.
    And God knows where Liz Truss is from. Narnia, I think.
    Yorkshire isn't it? Wasn't/isn't her father a professor at Leeds Uni?
    You are thinking of Harold Wilson. He was from Yorkshire and his son was a professor at the Open University.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Wilson_(mathematician)
    No, I'm not. She talked disparagingly about going to a well-regarded comprehensive school in Leeds, didn't she? And caused a lot of annoyance among fellow alumni.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58575895

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,413

    Musk! With a British grandparent he still has time to become a citizen and then our next PM.

    Unlike America, we aren't a nativist country.

    Two of our last four PMs have had non-British grandparents.
    That’s nothing. The previous US President and the next US President had a non-American mother.
  • CHartCHart Posts: 48
    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    This bloke is on the wrong list. However, if true there is something enlightening about it (crops up most years, and it's always a vicar) as he is in deep deep trouble for noting the probable non-existence of Santa Claus - he will have been doing a Bayesian analysis I should think - but he was addressing a post graduate seminar of 10-11 year olds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/14/primary-school-children-left-in-tears-after-vicar-tells-them-santa-isnt-real

    Can anyone confirm there really are 10-11 year olds who haven't worked this out?

    I think the break point is when kids go to senior school. At infant/Junior school there is a general acceptance that no one mentions the reality even if there is a nod and a wink amongst the oldest children. Once they are going up to senior school the aim is to ensure that, even if they are still pretending to believe, they don't expose themselves to ridicule or a hard landing from the bigger kids.

    But the bottom line is the vicar was being a complete arse. Particularly for someone who believes in another non existent mythical being.
    I used to believe in Santa and it added greatly to the magic of Christmas. What's odd is I can't remember when I stopped. I know I believed at 7 and I know I didn't believe at 10 but I don't recall the actual revelation - which must have occurred at some point in those 3 years - of the crushing truth that "Santa" was my dad and all the other kids' Santas was their dads, just filling up stockings and putting presents under trees and consuming that left-out mince pie and brandy after we'd all gone to bed. Did somebody tell me? Did my burgeoning powers of logic work it out? You'd have thought I'd remember something as traumatic as that.
    Oh you still believe in Santa mate. You thought Keir Starmer was going to fix the country.
This discussion has been closed.