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Americans have issues – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,122
edited October 24 in General
Americans have issues – politicalbetting.com

Economist/YouGov Poll: Inflation is the issue that by far the most Americans say is their most importanthttps://t.co/ZZdh9GsmBm pic.twitter.com/shMzV4xr3I

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Comments

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,336
    It’s the Inflation, Stupid: Why the Working Class Wants Trump Back

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/24/opinion/trump-election-inflation-working-class.html
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,336
    2nd. Like Harris.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,753
    So had the republicans not obsessed over abortion they’d be well out in front now
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,804
    It's ironic -then- that nothing would worsen inflation for average Americans more than Donald Trump's proposed tariff plan.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,336
    Inflation helped usher in Hitler.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,804

    Inflation helped usher in Hitler.

    Actually, I would argue that it was the crushing deflation that followed that ushered in Hitler.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,137
    IanB2 said:

    So had the republicans not obsessed over abortion they’d be well out in front now

    Or if the Republicans hadn't picked a deranged geriatric criminal accompanied by a raving misogynist who's not at all hung up over his sexuality they might be well ahead by now.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,554
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Quite a head of steam (!) building up here on slavery. I sense we're close to being able to argue that it was beneficial for all. Can we get there? I think we can.

    Hmmm.. so you are saying this is bad?

    A world record spoon attempt.
    This is going on, right now....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,336
    rcs1000 said:

    It's ironic -then- that nothing would worsen inflation for average Americans more than Donald Trump's proposed tariff plan.

    This. 100x.

    But that sums it all up really. The great demos will vote for the snake oil man and then get what's coming to them.

    How long before Biden's years are seen as a golden oasis before the fall?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,168

    Inflation helped usher in Hitler.

    It did, but not just inflation. Lots of factors - a defeated nation where many didn't think they had actually been defeated, the harshness of reparations, a strong culture of political violence, a limited history of genuine parliamentary democracy, fear of communism.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,137
    rcs1000 said:

    Inflation helped usher in Hitler.

    Actually, I would argue that it was the crushing deflation that followed that ushered in Hitler.
    You're both wrong.

    It was a corrupt bargain between von Papen and Oskar von Hindenburg that ushered in Hitler.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,554
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good afternoon

    On current trends the world, even if countries meet all their carbon pledges, is heading to 2.6 and 2.8 degrees of warming

    I look forward to owning a beachfront property on the new Humber Sea.
    It just seems that nature is far more powerful than mankind, and certainly the trillions suggested to mitigate the rate of increase and the lack of will by many countries means that nature will ultimately do what it always has
    2040 - The Guardian

    "The atmospheric carbon extraction industry is another example of the rich world helping itself to the commons of all mankind without responsibility. Originally fostered to reduce CO2 in the atmosphere, it has become a juggernaught - using solar power to create fossil fuel replacements without consideration of the effects.

    The ongoing famine and civil war in Saudi Arabia is bad enough. With CO2 levels now falling, Third World countries are now exposed to climate change - but in reverse....."
    I think it's probably more likely a 2050 story than a 2040 one... but still, wonderfully believable.
    Though surely the Saudis will be the ones with a country covered in solar panels and the fossil fuel replacement plants...
    It's possible.

    However, my base thesis is that panels will be so cheap, that the cost of getting things from A to B will overwhelm any savings from increased insolation.

    Of course, that doesn't mean there won't be a period - which could easily be 10 to 20 years - when that isn't true. That's the window when things like Xlinks Morocco works - which is a 10.5GW solar plan that would be connected via a 3,800km HVDC line to the UK.
    Plenty of desert in the US, for example.

    The real question would be - what is the advantage of having your fuel production in Saudi, when you can have it home? The sun doesn't shine *that* much brighter there, than say, the Arizona desert....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,361
    edited October 24
    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.
  • The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,184

    rcs1000 said:

    It's ironic -then- that nothing would worsen inflation for average Americans more than Donald Trump's proposed tariff plan.

    This. 100x.

    But that sums it all up really. The great demos will vote for the snake oil man and then get what's coming to them.
    (Snip)
    And then they, and Trump's enablers, will all say it's someone else's fault. The other are to blame, not them.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,361
    edited October 24
    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    I have little problems with the government borrowing to fund infrastructure projects - my dislike is borrowing to fund day to day spending..
    This will be the devil in the detail. What are we going to be getting with all the extra borrowing. "investment" in Brown lexicon soon went from infrastructure to any and all extra spending.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,812
    Reeves is going to combine the austerity of Osborne, the untrammelled borrowing of Kwarteng and the low cunning of Brown's sneaky tax grabs into one Halloween budget bonanza isn't she :D
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,184
    There are a fair few stories on X and elsewhere claiming: "Dutch Court rules Bill Gates can face trial over COVID-19 vaccine injuries"

    I haven't been able to find a reputable source for this. Is there one?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,361
    Pulpstar said:

    Reeves is going to combine the austerity of Osborne, the untrammelled borrowing of Kwarteng and the low cunning of Brown's sneaky tax grabs into one Halloween budget bonanza isn't she :D

    Assume the position and ensure you are well lubed....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,137

    There are a fair few stories on X and elsewhere claiming: "Dutch Court rules Bill Gates can face trial over COVID-19 vaccine injuries"

    I haven't been able to find a reputable source for this. Is there one?

    I'm thinking the answer is 'no.'
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,137

    Pulpstar said:

    Reeves is going to combine the austerity of Osborne, the untrammelled borrowing of Kwarteng and the low cunning of Brown's sneaky tax grabs into one Halloween budget bonanza isn't she :D

    Assume the position and ensure you are well lubed....
    A Reeves sex movie? Pure pawnography.
  • rcs1000 said:

    It's ironic -then- that nothing would worsen inflation for average Americans more than Donald Trump's proposed tariff plan.

    This. 100x.

    But that sums it all up really. The great demos will vote for the snake oil man and then get what's coming to them.
    (Snip)
    And then they, and Trump's enablers, will all say it's someone else's fault. The other are to blame, not them.
    Described perfectly. Business as usual.
  • The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
    Can we get a loan off Trump for this if we bring back the UK goverment activists now?
  • rcs1000 said:

    It's ironic -then- that nothing would worsen inflation for average Americans more than Donald Trump's proposed tariff plan.

    That's right. Good reason to vote for him.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,361
    edited October 24

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
    £50bn here, £50bn there, it soon adds up...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,554
    ydoethur said:

    There are a fair few stories on X and elsewhere claiming: "Dutch Court rules Bill Gates can face trial over COVID-19 vaccine injuries"

    I haven't been able to find a reputable source for this. Is there one?

    I'm thinking the answer is 'no.'
    I will take the stand to defend Gates.

    The only side effect of COVID vaccines seems to be the 178,563 Zune players I've bought. So far. Aside from that, awesome.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,137

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
    Can we get a loan off Trump for this if we bring back the UK goverment activists now?
    Famously, he started his career with a small one.

    And his loans are infamously stingy too...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,057

    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    I have little problems with the government borrowing to fund infrastructure projects - my dislike is borrowing to fund day to day spending..
    This will be the devil in the detail. What are we going to be getting with all the extra borrowing. "investment" in Brown lexicon soon went from infrastructure to any and all extra spending.
    Yes. There are people quick to argue that Education spending is investing in the skills of the future workforce, or that Health spending is investing in the health of the current workforce.

    How much attention to this distinction do we think the financial markets will give, or will they be more concerned by aggregate borrowing levels?
  • ydoethur said:

    There are a fair few stories on X and elsewhere claiming: "Dutch Court rules Bill Gates can face trial over COVID-19 vaccine injuries"

    I haven't been able to find a reputable source for this. Is there one?

    I'm thinking the answer is 'no.'
    I will take the stand to defend Gates.

    The only side effect of COVID vaccines seems to be the 178,563 Zune players I've bought. So far. Aside from that, awesome.
    Gates will be fine. He will not be taken to court unless someone things they can get a good payout from him. If so they will loose.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,689
    The top 5 are...

    Inflation/prices 25%
    Immigration 13%
    Jobs and the economy 11%
    Health care 10%
    Abortion 7%

    Abortion even being in the top 5 is a huge change, I believe, compared to some years ago. Healthcare being 4th is good for the Dems too.

    The question asked is which issue is most important to you. The equivalent YouGov polling in the UK asks for respondents' top 3 issues. I'm unclear why these are being asked differently, and it makes comparison across to the UK results difficult (economy 48%, immigration & asylum 44%, health 43%, crime 21%, housing 20%). The UK approach seems more useful to me.
  • eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    I have little problems with the government borrowing to fund infrastructure projects - my dislike is borrowing to fund day to day spending..
    This will be the devil in the detail. What are we going to be getting with all the extra borrowing. "investment" in Brown lexicon soon went from infrastructure to any and all extra spending.
    Yes. There are people quick to argue that Education spending is investing in the skills of the future workforce, or that Health spending is investing in the health of the current workforce.

    How much attention to this distinction do we think the financial markets will give, or will they be more concerned by aggregate borrowing levels?
    Depends how far they push it over the coming years. Truss was sorted out rapidly by the markets. Will they be more sympathetic with Labour. No.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,316
    Just think, this time next week well al be poorer
  • Just think, this time next week well al be poorer

    Will of the people, just like Brexit.
  • ydoethur said:

    There are a fair few stories on X and elsewhere claiming: "Dutch Court rules Bill Gates can face trial over COVID-19 vaccine injuries"

    I haven't been able to find a reputable source for this. Is there one?

    I'm thinking the answer is 'no.'
    I will take the stand to defend Gates.

    The only side effect of COVID vaccines seems to be the 178,563 Zune players I've bought. So far. Aside from that, awesome.
    Gates will be fine. He will not be taken to court unless someone things they can get a good payout from him. If so they will loose.
    Someone thinks.
  • Just think, this time next week well al be poorer

    Fantastic!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,812

    Just think, this time next week well al be poorer

    Not me, I'm a "working person".
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,743
    edited October 24

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
    Can we get a loan off Trump for this if we bring back the UK goverment activists now?
    Sky reporting that Kwasi Kwarteng attended the same IMF meeting 2 years ago and was sacked on his way home following the market reaction

    I doubt Reeves will suffer the same fate, but she and the government must be praying the markets do not react adversely to her announcement and her actual Autumn Statement

    I do find it disturbing that another politician, and in this case a key one, said before the election they would not change the borrowing rules but after being elected says with a straight face they are going to do so contrary to the previous comments

    I am very concerned for the amount of tax and borrowing Reeves is proposing, and whilst some borrowing to invest might be justified, we are approaching a serious day of reckoning for the government which is already unpopular

    Let's reserve judgement until we know the details but the saying one thing and doing the opposite just leaves a bad taste

    Just be honest please
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,211

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    The headline literally says "debt" in it. Its pretty obvious it means more borrowing.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,730

    There are a fair few stories on X and elsewhere claiming: "Dutch Court rules Bill Gates can face trial over COVID-19 vaccine injuries"

    I haven't been able to find a reputable source for this. Is there one?

    Also, could anyone please tell me whether it's true that a double-decker bus was found on the Moon?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,865

    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    I have little problems with the government borrowing to fund infrastructure projects - my dislike is borrowing to fund day to day spending..
    This will be the devil in the detail. What are we going to be getting with all the extra borrowing. "investment" in Brown lexicon soon went from infrastructure to any and all extra spending.
    Nothing I've yet heard about nationalising the railways, Great British Energy, the National Wealth Fund and so on has made me think "great idea, that will make money".
  • eekeek Posts: 28,032

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
    £50bn here, £50bn there, it soon adds up...
    If it adds up to some new prisons, some replacement hospitals, HS2 and some local tram networks (yes I live in hope) then I will be very happy.

    It's frankly embarrassing that Sofia has a better local transport infrastructure than anywhere outside of London...
  • eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
    £50bn here, £50bn there, it soon adds up...
    If it adds up to some new prisons, some replacement hospitals, HS2 and some local tram networks (yes I live in hope) then I will be very happy.

    It's frankly embarrassing that Sofia has a better local transport infrastructure than anywhere outside of London...
    No surprise to that. And a lot cheaper cost of living!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,961

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
    That will fund a lot more CCS projects.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,689
    ydoethur said:

    There are a fair few stories on X and elsewhere claiming: "Dutch Court rules Bill Gates can face trial over COVID-19 vaccine injuries"

    I haven't been able to find a reputable source for this. Is there one?

    I'm thinking the answer is 'no.'
    Nothing quite on this in Snopes (yet), but note...

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-gates-arrest-warrant-philippines/ Was an Arrest Warrant Issued for Bill Gates in the Philippines? No.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-gates-india-sued/ Is Bill Gates Being Sued by India Over Vaccination Deaths? No.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/italy-bill-gates-arrest/ Is Italy Calling for Bill Gates' Arrest? No, the Italian government isn't, but one 5SM MP did.

    There's an obvious pattern!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,361
    edited October 24
    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
    £50bn here, £50bn there, it soon adds up...
    If it adds up to some new prisons, some replacement hospitals, HS2 and some local tram networks (yes I live in hope) then I will be very happy.

    It's frankly embarrassing that Sofia has a better local transport infrastructure than anywhere outside of London...
    Well unless they are U-turning, Wes Streeting said they couldn't afford new hospitals / hospital extensions identified by the Tories and so wouldn't be happening in this parliament. HS2 back to original plan was quickly shot down the other week.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,552
    rcs1000 said:

    Inflation helped usher in Hitler.

    Actually, I would argue that it was the crushing deflation that followed that ushered in Hitler.
    Yes, it was austerity that led to Hitler. The dates don't really fit for hyperinflation.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,211
    Possibly the most important decision this government will make. If Reeves puts us back on an investment path I will be delighted.

    I was listening to George Osborne the other day, regretting he had cut investment. Pointed out that many of the projects he cancelled still need to be built (indeed Reeves has put some on hold). Really hope we finally have a govt that will take a long-term approach and get on and build.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,804

    ydoethur said:

    There are a fair few stories on X and elsewhere claiming: "Dutch Court rules Bill Gates can face trial over COVID-19 vaccine injuries"

    I haven't been able to find a reputable source for this. Is there one?

    I'm thinking the answer is 'no.'
    I will take the stand to defend Gates.

    The only side effect of COVID vaccines seems to be the 178,563 Zune players I've bought. So far. Aside from that, awesome.
    I bought a Zune.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,942
    ydoethur said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
    Can we get a loan off Trump for this if we bring back the UK goverment activists now?
    Famously, he started his career with a small one.

    And his loans are infamously stingy too...
    I think his priority with his loans would be America First.

    And they're in much worse fiscal shape than we are, although Reeves clearly wants to change that.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,942
    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    I have little problems with the government borrowing to fund infrastructure projects - my dislike is borrowing to fund day to day spending..
    How do we know which is which though? If we're running a deficit it means expenditure exceeds revenue, just that. Who's to say what revenue matches what expense and therefore what expense is being funded by borrowing? Money is fungible.
  • Chris said:

    There are a fair few stories on X and elsewhere claiming: "Dutch Court rules Bill Gates can face trial over COVID-19 vaccine injuries"

    I haven't been able to find a reputable source for this. Is there one?

    Also, could anyone please tell me whether it's true that a double-decker bus was found on the Moon?
    It was. Musk was sat inside it putting together his future campaign to be president of the world.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,361
    edited October 24
    glw said:

    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    I have little problems with the government borrowing to fund infrastructure projects - my dislike is borrowing to fund day to day spending..
    This will be the devil in the detail. What are we going to be getting with all the extra borrowing. "investment" in Brown lexicon soon went from infrastructure to any and all extra spending.
    Nothing I've yet heard about nationalising the railways, Great British Energy, the National Wealth Fund and so on has made me think "great idea, that will make money".
    Maybe they will U-Turn, but they also binned off a load of infrastructure projects that were already at the planning phase in the first month. And of course binned off the supercomputer project.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,032
    edited October 24
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    There are a fair few stories on X and elsewhere claiming: "Dutch Court rules Bill Gates can face trial over COVID-19 vaccine injuries"

    I haven't been able to find a reputable source for this. Is there one?

    I'm thinking the answer is 'no.'
    I will take the stand to defend Gates.

    The only side effect of COVID vaccines seems to be the 178,563 Zune players I've bought. So far. Aside from that, awesome.
    I bought a Zune.
    From memory it was easier to get music onto it than putting music on an iPod using Windows...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,032

    glw said:

    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    I have little problems with the government borrowing to fund infrastructure projects - my dislike is borrowing to fund day to day spending..
    This will be the devil in the detail. What are we going to be getting with all the extra borrowing. "investment" in Brown lexicon soon went from infrastructure to any and all extra spending.
    Nothing I've yet heard about nationalising the railways, Great British Energy, the National Wealth Fund and so on has made me think "great idea, that will make money".
    Maybe they will U-Turn, but they also binned off a load of infrastructure projects that were already iat the planning phase in the first month. And of course binned off the supercomputer project.
    I'm not sure the supercomputer project was actually that great an idea - but a lot of those projects were placed on temporary hold so may be brought back..
  • The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
    Can we get a loan off Trump for this if we bring back the UK goverment activists now?
    Sky reporting that Kwasi Kwarteng attended the same IMF meeting 2 years ago and was sacked on his way home following the market reaction

    I doubt Reeves will suffer the same fate, but she and the government must be praying the markets do not react adversely to her announcement and her actual Autumn Statement

    I do find it disturbing that another politician, and in this case a key one, said before the election they would not change the borrowing rules but after being elected says with a straight face they are going to do so contrary to the previous comments

    I am very concerned for the amount of tax and borrowing Reeves is proposing, and whilst some borrowing to invest might be justified, we are approaching a serious day of reckoning for the government which is already unpopular

    Let's reserve judgement until we know the details but the saying one thing and doing the opposite just leaves a bad taste

    Just be honest please
    That would be the correct thing to do. Be sincere and honest. Do not be a politician.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,554

    ydoethur said:

    There are a fair few stories on X and elsewhere claiming: "Dutch Court rules Bill Gates can face trial over COVID-19 vaccine injuries"

    I haven't been able to find a reputable source for this. Is there one?

    I'm thinking the answer is 'no.'
    I will take the stand to defend Gates.

    The only side effect of COVID vaccines seems to be the 178,563 Zune players I've bought. So far. Aside from that, awesome.
    Gates will be fine. He will not be taken to court unless someone things they can get a good payout from him. If so they will loose.
    Someone thinks.
    Such attempted shakedowns remind me of this -

    https://youtu.be/1z6o1GIEsQE?t=53&si=zMzIA9XqN0C4zz2c
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,552
    rcs1000 said:

    It's ironic -then- that nothing would worsen inflation for average Americans more than Donald Trump's proposed tariff plan.

    I really do not think Trump understands tariffs. He speaks as if they were some sort of tax paid by the exporting country, say China or Mexico, rather than simply pushing up prices to American consumers.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,176
    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    I have little problems with the government borrowing to fund infrastructure projects - my dislike is borrowing to fund day to day spending..
    How do we know which is which though? If we're running a deficit it means expenditure exceeds revenue, just that. Who's to say what revenue matches what expense and therefore what expense is being funded by borrowing? Money is fungible.
    ...and if an infrastructure project turns out to be worth less than we borrowed to build it? Has been known to happen.
  • ydoethur said:

    There are a fair few stories on X and elsewhere claiming: "Dutch Court rules Bill Gates can face trial over COVID-19 vaccine injuries"

    I haven't been able to find a reputable source for this. Is there one?

    I'm thinking the answer is 'no.'
    I will take the stand to defend Gates.

    The only side effect of COVID vaccines seems to be the 178,563 Zune players I've bought. So far. Aside from that, awesome.
    Gates will be fine. He will not be taken to court unless someone things they can get a good payout from him. If so they will loose.
    Someone thinks.
    Such attempted shakedowns remind me of this -

    https://youtu.be/1z6o1GIEsQE?t=53&si=zMzIA9XqN0C4zz2c
    Such a brillant film. Morgan is great!
  • rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    There are a fair few stories on X and elsewhere claiming: "Dutch Court rules Bill Gates can face trial over COVID-19 vaccine injuries"

    I haven't been able to find a reputable source for this. Is there one?

    I'm thinking the answer is 'no.'
    I will take the stand to defend Gates.

    The only side effect of COVID vaccines seems to be the 178,563 Zune players I've bought. So far. Aside from that, awesome.
    I bought a Zune.
    PBers will be shocked to know I bought an iPod.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,446
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Inflation helped usher in Hitler.

    Actually, I would argue that it was the crushing deflation that followed that ushered in Hitler.
    You're both wrong.

    It was a corrupt bargain between von Papen and Oskar von Hindenburg that ushered in Hitler.
    Actually it might have been the early demise of Stresemann which dished Weimar's chances.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,586
    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
    £50bn here, £50bn there, it soon adds up...
    If it adds up to some new prisons, some replacement hospitals, HS2 and some local tram networks (yes I live in hope) then I will be very happy.

    It's frankly embarrassing that Sofia has a better local transport infrastructure than anywhere outside of London...
    New tram networks - maybe.

    New hospital - if it leads to fewer people 'on the sick' and/or it is more efficient (yeah, right).

    Not sure how a new prison leads to increased revenue.


    Definitely see the Gordon Brown definition of 'investment' being used within the first 6 months.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,032
    edited October 24

    rcs1000 said:

    It's ironic -then- that nothing would worsen inflation for average Americans more than Donald Trump's proposed tariff plan.

    I really do not think Trump understands tariffs. He speaks as if they were some sort of tax paid by the exporting country, say China or Mexico, rather than simply pushing up prices to American consumers.
    Which is why so many American's also can't see the problem.

    They think the exporter pays the tax but the price they pay will remain the same ($100) when in reality that $100 item from China now costs $300, so they are forced to purchase the $200 version manufactured outside of China...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,554
    eek said:

    glw said:

    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    I have little problems with the government borrowing to fund infrastructure projects - my dislike is borrowing to fund day to day spending..
    This will be the devil in the detail. What are we going to be getting with all the extra borrowing. "investment" in Brown lexicon soon went from infrastructure to any and all extra spending.
    Nothing I've yet heard about nationalising the railways, Great British Energy, the National Wealth Fund and so on has made me think "great idea, that will make money".
    Maybe they will U-Turn, but they also binned off a load of infrastructure projects that were already iat the planning phase in the first month. And of course binned off the supercomputer project.
    I'm not sure the supercomputer project was actually that great an idea - but a lot of those projects were placed on temporary hold so may be brought back..
    Academic supercomputers are the basic infrastructure, which lots of research depends on.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,211
    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    I have little problems with the government borrowing to fund infrastructure projects - my dislike is borrowing to fund day to day spending..
    How do we know which is which though? If we're running a deficit it means expenditure exceeds revenue, just that. Who's to say what revenue matches what expense and therefore what expense is being funded by borrowing? Money is fungible.
    No I don't think that is the right way of considering the issue. If revenue - current expenditure is zero or positive... then you're okay. Any investment is the bit financed by borrowing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,361
    I had a Creative Zen....was great at the time.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,279
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Inflation helped usher in Hitler.

    Actually, I would argue that it was the crushing deflation that followed that ushered in Hitler.
    You're both wrong.

    It was a corrupt bargain between von Papen and Oskar von Hindenburg that ushered in Hitler.
    Actually it might have been the early demise of Stresemann which dished Weimar's chances.
    Wasn't it the failure to appreciate his art? Thankfully we've learned the lessons of history and now award prizes to all sorts of people who might otherwise turn into dictators.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,032

    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
    £50bn here, £50bn there, it soon adds up...
    If it adds up to some new prisons, some replacement hospitals, HS2 and some local tram networks (yes I live in hope) then I will be very happy.

    It's frankly embarrassing that Sofia has a better local transport infrastructure than anywhere outside of London...
    New tram networks - maybe.

    New hospital - if it leads to fewer people 'on the sick' and/or it is more efficient (yeah, right).

    Not sure how a new prison leads to increased revenue.


    Definitely see the Gordon Brown definition of 'investment' being used within the first 6 months.
    A new prison / hospital is still a physical asset which will have lower running (maintenance) costs than the existing one you are continuing to patch up...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,112
    "Harriet Harman accuses Starmer of not appreciating importance of reparations for Commonwealth"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/oct/24/labour-budget-keir-starmer-rachel-reeves-imf-uk-politics
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,568

    There are a fair few stories on X and elsewhere claiming: "Dutch Court rules Bill Gates can face trial over COVID-19 vaccine injuries"

    I haven't been able to find a reputable source for this. Is there one?

    Sounds like they are tilting at windmills to me. It'll get clogged up in the courts if true anyway.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,524
    . . . Meanwhile, up in the Great White North . . .

    CBC - Some [24 out of 153] Liberal MPs issue a deadline to Trudeau: make up your mind to stay or go by Oct. 28

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-caucus-meeting-trudeau-future-1.7359883

    CBC - How the internal push to force Trudeau to resign played out — and what might happen next

    Internal calls for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to resign as Liberal leader were aired out behind closed doors Wednesday as Liberal MPs met on Parliament Hill.

    What happened in the caucus meeting?

    Sources speaking to Radio-Canada said that 24 MPs signed an agreement to call on Trudeau to step down as Liberal leader.

    Two sources told CBC News that B.C. MP Patrick Weiler read out a separate document — which laid out an argument for Trudeau's resignation — during the meeting. Weiler pointed to the boost that Democrats gained after U.S. President Joe Biden backed out of the presidential race and suggested the Liberals could see a similar rebound.

    MPs were given two minutes each to address the room during the three-hour-long meeting. About 20 — none of them cabinet ministers — stood up to urge Trudeau to step aside before the next election, sources said. But a number of MPs also stood to voice support for the prime minister.

    The dissident MPs gave Trudeau until Oct. 28 to decide on his future, sources said. But no consequences attached to that deadline were mentioned in the document read to caucus Wednesday.

    The prime minister himself addressed the meeting and two MPs told CBC News that he became emotional when he talked about his children having to see "F--- Trudeau" signs in public. At the end of the meeting, Trudeau said he would reflect on what he heard but didn't indicate that he would resign. . . .

    Despite the pressure on Trudeau, the decision on whether to stay or go ultimately rests with him. He has said repeatedly he wants to lead the party into the next election; it remains to be seen if Wednesday's meeting will make him reconsider. . . .

    The Liberal caucus could have had a secret ballot option if MPs had agreed to adopt the provisions in the 2015 Reform Act — legislation meant to make party leaders more accountable to their caucus members.

    Under the act, if 20 per cent of caucus members sign a petition calling for a leadership review, a vote is triggered. If a majority of the MPs vote against the leader, they are forced to step down. This measure was used to oust former Conservative leader Erin O'Toole in 2022.

    But the Reform Act states that parties must vote on whether to adopt its measures after each general election and the Liberals have never done so. Even if the Liberals did have the Reform Act option at their disposal, the 24 MPs who signed the document wouldn't be enough to force the vote. . . .

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/what-happened-liberal-meeting-trudeau-leadership-1.7361018
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,446

    rcs1000 said:

    It's ironic -then- that nothing would worsen inflation for average Americans more than Donald Trump's proposed tariff plan.

    I really do not think Trump understands tariffs. He speaks as if they were some sort of tax paid by the exporting country, say China or Mexico, rather than simply pushing up prices to American consumers.
    That gives the mistaken impression that Trump cares about US consumers.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,032

    eek said:

    glw said:

    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    I have little problems with the government borrowing to fund infrastructure projects - my dislike is borrowing to fund day to day spending..
    This will be the devil in the detail. What are we going to be getting with all the extra borrowing. "investment" in Brown lexicon soon went from infrastructure to any and all extra spending.
    Nothing I've yet heard about nationalising the railways, Great British Energy, the National Wealth Fund and so on has made me think "great idea, that will make money".
    Maybe they will U-Turn, but they also binned off a load of infrastructure projects that were already iat the planning phase in the first month. And of course binned off the supercomputer project.
    I'm not sure the supercomputer project was actually that great an idea - but a lot of those projects were placed on temporary hold so may be brought back..
    Academic supercomputers are the basic infrastructure, which lots of research depends on.
    My mistake - I thought it was for AI use where that amount of money would barely touch the edges of what MS and co are investing.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,568

    rcs1000 said:

    It's ironic -then- that nothing would worsen inflation for average Americans more than Donald Trump's proposed tariff plan.

    I really do not think Trump understands tariffs. He speaks as if they were some sort of tax paid by the exporting country, say China or Mexico, rather than simply pushing up prices to American consumers.
    Just wait til you hear him on his specialist subject, electric batteries.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,125
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Inflation helped usher in Hitler.

    Actually, I would argue that it was the crushing deflation that followed that ushered in Hitler.
    You're both wrong.

    It was a corrupt bargain between von Papen and Oskar von Hindenburg that ushered in Hitler.
    Actually it might have been the early demise of Stresemann which dished Weimar's chances.
    The German Nationalists, the Catholic Centre, and the KPD all hated Weimar, for their own reasons. The SPD and Liberals saw it, at best, as a necessary evil. Pretty well everybody wanted the outcome of WWI to be overturned.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,032

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    There are a fair few stories on X and elsewhere claiming: "Dutch Court rules Bill Gates can face trial over COVID-19 vaccine injuries"

    I haven't been able to find a reputable source for this. Is there one?

    I'm thinking the answer is 'no.'
    I will take the stand to defend Gates.

    The only side effect of COVID vaccines seems to be the 178,563 Zune players I've bought. So far. Aside from that, awesome.
    I bought a Zune.
    PBers will be shocked to know I bought an iPod.
    More expensive than the other options - check

    No I don't think anyone on here would be surprised in the slightest.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,554

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Inflation helped usher in Hitler.

    Actually, I would argue that it was the crushing deflation that followed that ushered in Hitler.
    You're both wrong.

    It was a corrupt bargain between von Papen and Oskar von Hindenburg that ushered in Hitler.
    Actually it might have been the early demise of Stresemann which dished Weimar's chances.
    Wasn't it the failure to appreciate his art? Thankfully we've learned the lessons of history and now award prizes to all sorts of people who might otherwise turn into dictators.
    Thank you

    I’ve half started writing a short story, where it turns out that the bullshit modern art market is actually time travellers preventing the next Hitler by burying him/her in money….
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,279

    rcs1000 said:

    It's ironic -then- that nothing would worsen inflation for average Americans more than Donald Trump's proposed tariff plan.

    I really do not think Trump understands tariffs. He speaks as if they were some sort of tax paid by the exporting country, say China or Mexico, rather than simply pushing up prices to American consumers.
    It's more complex than that because the price of anything is subject to constant negotiation in the market. If there's a tariff on exporting goods to the US, you can't assume that the full cost of the tariff will be absorbed by the consumer.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,032

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Inflation helped usher in Hitler.

    Actually, I would argue that it was the crushing deflation that followed that ushered in Hitler.
    You're both wrong.

    It was a corrupt bargain between von Papen and Oskar von Hindenburg that ushered in Hitler.
    Actually it might have been the early demise of Stresemann which dished Weimar's chances.
    Wasn't it the failure to appreciate his art? Thankfully we've learned the lessons of history and now award prizes to all sorts of people who might otherwise turn into dictators.
    Thank you

    I’ve half started writing a short story, where it turns out that the bullshit modern art market is actually time travellers preventing the next Hitler by burying him/her in money….
    Explains Damian Hurst....
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,552
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Inflation helped usher in Hitler.

    Actually, I would argue that it was the crushing deflation that followed that ushered in Hitler.
    You're both wrong.

    It was a corrupt bargain between von Papen and Oskar von Hindenburg that ushered in Hitler.
    Actually it might have been the early demise of Stresemann which dished Weimar's chances.
    Wasn't it the failure to appreciate his art? Thankfully we've learned the lessons of history and now award prizes to all sorts of people who might otherwise turn into dictators.
    Thank you

    I’ve half started writing a short story, where it turns out that the bullshit modern art market is actually time travellers preventing the next Hitler by burying him/her in money….
    Explains Damian Hurst....
    Hirst is a graphic designer who got lucky. For anyone else, spot paintings are wrapping paper.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,586
    eek said:

    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
    £50bn here, £50bn there, it soon adds up...
    If it adds up to some new prisons, some replacement hospitals, HS2 and some local tram networks (yes I live in hope) then I will be very happy.

    It's frankly embarrassing that Sofia has a better local transport infrastructure than anywhere outside of London...
    New tram networks - maybe.

    New hospital - if it leads to fewer people 'on the sick' and/or it is more efficient (yeah, right).

    Not sure how a new prison leads to increased revenue.


    Definitely see the Gordon Brown definition of 'investment' being used within the first 6 months.
    A new prison / hospital is still a physical asset which will have lower running (maintenance) costs than the existing one you are continuing to patch up...
    True, but we actually need more prisons, so I'd bet the old one would continue to be patched up...
  • eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Inflation helped usher in Hitler.

    Actually, I would argue that it was the crushing deflation that followed that ushered in Hitler.
    You're both wrong.

    It was a corrupt bargain between von Papen and Oskar von Hindenburg that ushered in Hitler.
    Actually it might have been the early demise of Stresemann which dished Weimar's chances.
    Wasn't it the failure to appreciate his art? Thankfully we've learned the lessons of history and now award prizes to all sorts of people who might otherwise turn into dictators.
    Thank you

    I’ve half started writing a short story, where it turns out that the bullshit modern art market is actually time travellers preventing the next Hitler by burying him/her in money….
    Explains Damian Hurst....
    The cow guy. I never understood it
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,279
    Trump says he could have had Hillary Clinton put in jail but he’s magnanimous and would also consider pardoning Hunter Biden.

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1849474234633900077
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,361
    edited October 24

    eek said:

    glw said:

    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    I have little problems with the government borrowing to fund infrastructure projects - my dislike is borrowing to fund day to day spending..
    This will be the devil in the detail. What are we going to be getting with all the extra borrowing. "investment" in Brown lexicon soon went from infrastructure to any and all extra spending.
    Nothing I've yet heard about nationalising the railways, Great British Energy, the National Wealth Fund and so on has made me think "great idea, that will make money".
    Maybe they will U-Turn, but they also binned off a load of infrastructure projects that were already iat the planning phase in the first month. And of course binned off the supercomputer project.
    I'm not sure the supercomputer project was actually that great an idea - but a lot of those projects were placed on temporary hold so may be brought back..
    Academic supercomputers are the basic infrastructure, which lots of research depends on.
    And the university has already spent £30 million on the building for it. Apparently according to the government its a waste of money, because not focused on AI. Rather than it being a bonus, because very few facilities in the world have these supercomputers and thus unable to do the important research. But its not for LLMs, do borrrrrrinnnggg....
  • Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    It's ironic -then- that nothing would worsen inflation for average Americans more than Donald Trump's proposed tariff plan.

    I really do not think Trump understands tariffs. He speaks as if they were some sort of tax paid by the exporting country, say China or Mexico, rather than simply pushing up prices to American consumers.
    That gives the mistaken impression that Trump cares about US consumers.
    He cares about himself and maybe his friends. Not sure about the friends part.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,414
    eek said:

    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
    £50bn here, £50bn there, it soon adds up...
    If it adds up to some new prisons, some replacement hospitals, HS2 and some local tram networks (yes I live in hope) then I will be very happy.

    It's frankly embarrassing that Sofia has a better local transport infrastructure than anywhere outside of London...
    New tram networks - maybe.

    New hospital - if it leads to fewer people 'on the sick' and/or it is more efficient (yeah, right).

    Not sure how a new prison leads to increased revenue.


    Definitely see the Gordon Brown definition of 'investment' being used within the first 6 months.
    A new prison / hospital is still a physical asset which will have lower running (maintenance) costs than the existing one you are continuing to patch up...
    But then there is the opportunity cost - a new hospital is good for people who are ill, and perhaps for getting them back to work.

    But wouldn't it be a much better investment to prevent people getting ill in the first place? This is where Labour need to show some steel and invest in things that reduce the burden on the state.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,032

    eek said:

    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
    £50bn here, £50bn there, it soon adds up...
    If it adds up to some new prisons, some replacement hospitals, HS2 and some local tram networks (yes I live in hope) then I will be very happy.

    It's frankly embarrassing that Sofia has a better local transport infrastructure than anywhere outside of London...
    New tram networks - maybe.

    New hospital - if it leads to fewer people 'on the sick' and/or it is more efficient (yeah, right).

    Not sure how a new prison leads to increased revenue.


    Definitely see the Gordon Brown definition of 'investment' being used within the first 6 months.
    A new prison / hospital is still a physical asset which will have lower running (maintenance) costs than the existing one you are continuing to patch up...
    True, but we actually need more prisons, so I'd bet the old one would continue to be patched up...
    Some aren't fit for purpose and think many of them in London are worth an awful lot when closed and the land used for housing.
  • glw said:

    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    I have little problems with the government borrowing to fund infrastructure projects - my dislike is borrowing to fund day to day spending..
    This will be the devil in the detail. What are we going to be getting with all the extra borrowing. "investment" in Brown lexicon soon went from infrastructure to any and all extra spending.
    Nothing I've yet heard about nationalising the railways, Great British Energy, the National Wealth Fund and so on has made me think "great idea, that will make money".
    Because it wont, renewables dont make money, if it has a 'mission' and that mission isnt to make money, it aint making money no matter how much you sugar coat it.
    Government looks at private sector "that looks easy, we can do that".
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    The government will change its self-imposed debt rules in order to free up billions for infrastructure spending, the chancellor has told the BBC. Chancellor Rachel Reeves said that there will be a technical change to the way debt is measured which will allow it to fund extra investment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg745ggn3no

    That reporting makes it sound like there was a load of money locked in a box in the treasury that just needed unlocking, rather than what in reality it means is loads of extra borrowing.

    Upto £50 billion pa totalling £250 billion to next GE
    £50bn here, £50bn there, it soon adds up...
    If it adds up to some new prisons, some replacement hospitals, HS2 and some local tram networks (yes I live in hope) then I will be very happy.

    It's frankly embarrassing that Sofia has a better local transport infrastructure than anywhere outside of London...
    New tram networks - maybe.

    New hospital - if it leads to fewer people 'on the sick' and/or it is more efficient (yeah, right).

    Not sure how a new prison leads to increased revenue.


    Definitely see the Gordon Brown definition of 'investment' being used within the first 6 months.
    A new prison / hospital is still a physical asset which will have lower running (maintenance) costs than the existing one you are continuing to patch up...
    True, but we actually need more prisons, so I'd bet the old one would continue to be patched up...
    Some aren't fit for purpose and think many of them in London are worth an awful lot when closed and the land used for housing.
    Trump mini golf course.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,150
    Andy_JS said:

    "Harriet Harman accuses Starmer of not appreciating importance of reparations for Commonwealth"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/oct/24/labour-budget-keir-starmer-rachel-reeves-imf-uk-politics

    @Leon see the drip, drip, drip of support from labour figures for this. It’s going to happen.

    As for this quote. What a load of BS.

    Speaking on Sky News’ Electoral Dysfunction podcast, Harman said Starmer did not appreciate why this was a live issue for so many country, and she said the PM should “lean in to a sense of cultural respect and equality”
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,689

    Mayoral elections could go back to an ordinal system.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,586
    edited October 24

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Inflation helped usher in Hitler.

    Actually, I would argue that it was the crushing deflation that followed that ushered in Hitler.
    You're both wrong.

    It was a corrupt bargain between von Papen and Oskar von Hindenburg that ushered in Hitler.
    Actually it might have been the early demise of Stresemann which dished Weimar's chances.
    Wasn't it the failure to appreciate his art? Thankfully we've learned the lessons of history and now award prizes to all sorts of people who might otherwise turn into dictators.
    Thank you

    I’ve half started writing a short story, where it turns out that the bullshit modern art market is actually time travellers preventing the next Hitler by burying him/her in money….
    Explains Damian Hurst....
    The cow guy. I never understood it
    Started off with a shark, I think. Then the cow. Then a sheep. Also a unicorn:



    Who says you can't sell the same thing twice?

    Preferred the Hepworths.

    [Yorkshire Sculpture Park]
  • Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Harriet Harman accuses Starmer of not appreciating importance of reparations for Commonwealth"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/oct/24/labour-budget-keir-starmer-rachel-reeves-imf-uk-politics

    @Leon see the drip, drip, drip of support from labour figures for this. It’s going to happen.

    As for this quote. What a load of BS.

    Speaking on Sky News’ Electoral Dysfunction podcast, Harman said Starmer did not appreciate why this was a live issue for so many country, and she said the PM should “lean in to a sense of cultural respect and equality”
    Harman. Not a pleasant person. Yuck.
  • Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Harriet Harman accuses Starmer of not appreciating importance of reparations for Commonwealth"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/oct/24/labour-budget-keir-starmer-rachel-reeves-imf-uk-politics

    @Leon see the drip, drip, drip of support from labour figures for this. It’s going to happen.

    As for this quote. What a load of BS.

    Speaking on Sky News’ Electoral Dysfunction podcast, Harman said Starmer did not appreciate why this was a live issue for so many country, and she said the PM should “lean in to a sense of cultural respect and equality”
    Pay them from the extra money that they will borrow.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,112

    . . . Meanwhile, up in the Great White North . . .

    CBC - Some [24 out of 153] Liberal MPs issue a deadline to Trudeau: make up your mind to stay or go by Oct. 28

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-caucus-meeting-trudeau-future-1.7359883

    CBC - How the internal push to force Trudeau to resign played out — and what might happen next

    Internal calls for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to resign as Liberal leader were aired out behind closed doors Wednesday as Liberal MPs met on Parliament Hill.

    What happened in the caucus meeting?

    Sources speaking to Radio-Canada said that 24 MPs signed an agreement to call on Trudeau to step down as Liberal leader.

    Two sources told CBC News that B.C. MP Patrick Weiler read out a separate document — which laid out an argument for Trudeau's resignation — during the meeting. Weiler pointed to the boost that Democrats gained after U.S. President Joe Biden backed out of the presidential race and suggested the Liberals could see a similar rebound.

    MPs were given two minutes each to address the room during the three-hour-long meeting. About 20 — none of them cabinet ministers — stood up to urge Trudeau to step aside before the next election, sources said. But a number of MPs also stood to voice support for the prime minister.

    The dissident MPs gave Trudeau until Oct. 28 to decide on his future, sources said. But no consequences attached to that deadline were mentioned in the document read to caucus Wednesday.

    The prime minister himself addressed the meeting and two MPs told CBC News that he became emotional when he talked about his children having to see "F--- Trudeau" signs in public. At the end of the meeting, Trudeau said he would reflect on what he heard but didn't indicate that he would resign. . . .

    Despite the pressure on Trudeau, the decision on whether to stay or go ultimately rests with him. He has said repeatedly he wants to lead the party into the next election; it remains to be seen if Wednesday's meeting will make him reconsider. . . .

    The Liberal caucus could have had a secret ballot option if MPs had agreed to adopt the provisions in the 2015 Reform Act — legislation meant to make party leaders more accountable to their caucus members.

    Under the act, if 20 per cent of caucus members sign a petition calling for a leadership review, a vote is triggered. If a majority of the MPs vote against the leader, they are forced to step down. This measure was used to oust former Conservative leader Erin O'Toole in 2022.

    But the Reform Act states that parties must vote on whether to adopt its measures after each general election and the Liberals have never done so. Even if the Liberals did have the Reform Act option at their disposal, the 24 MPs who signed the document wouldn't be enough to force the vote. . . .

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/what-happened-liberal-meeting-trudeau-leadership-1.7361018

    Eric Grenier believes the next election will be on 12th May next year.
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