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Victory begets victory? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,014
edited March 12 in General
Victory begets victory? – politicalbetting.com

Expectation that Labour will win a large majority at the next election jumps 8pts following yesterday's by-elections% who expect…A large Labour majority: 25% (+8 from Sunday)A Labour majority of any size: 48% (+5)Labour to form next govt: 61% (+3)https://t.co/i14tIGPSJ3 pic.twitter.com/3S8eQhiHBE

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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    On the Kingswood swing Labour would win but only with a majority of 60 ie smaller than any of Blair's majorities in 1997, 2001 or 2005.

    On the Wellingborough swing though the Tories would be near wiped out and down to just 4 MPs.

    Sunak will therefore hope the latter was just a reflection of Bone and his lady friend being the candidate

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/16/keir-starmer-byelection-wins-labour-wellingborough-kingswood
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    eekeek Posts: 24,947

    This isnt so much a Labour victory as a Conservative defeat. The Conservatives might as well be Starmers election agent.

    But the size of the defeat will depend on the number of none Tory voters intent on ensuring the Tory party are kicked out.

    And as TSE says above there are a lot of people annoyed enough by the last 2 years of Tory "Government" to really want to kick them out.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    The best result might be 600 seats for Labour. Starmer would never be able to maintain internal discipline and it would split in two with the governing Blairite Cameroon Starmerite party opposed by the left.
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    Must have been a tough week for a Conservative loyalist.

    Multiple Starmer fumbles (the green cuts and Aligate were fumbled, even if Labour ended up in the only sensible place on both), that poll, even OKish inflation news...

    ...then the confirmation of recession and two big by election defeats.

    As the Mean Girls put it, Stop trying to make A Bad Week For Starmer happen.

    More generally, election winners always get a "other people like X, even if I don't see the point" boost.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    eek said:

    This isnt so much a Labour victory as a Conservative defeat. The Conservatives might as well be Starmers election agent.

    But the size of the defeat will depend on the number of none Tory voters intent on ensuring the Tory party are kicked out.

    And as TSE says above there are a lot of people annoyed enough by the last 2 years of Tory "Government" to really want to kick them out.
    I think their bigger problem is their supporters who stay at home. The line up of alternatives isnt the strongest I can recall.
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    eek said:

    This isnt so much a Labour victory as a Conservative defeat. The Conservatives might as well be Starmers election agent.

    But the size of the defeat will depend on the number of none Tory voters intent on ensuring the Tory party are kicked out.

    And as TSE says above there are a lot of people annoyed enough by the last 2 years of Tory "Government" to really want to kick them out.
    Which is how the British electorate tends to operate. Two questions on the algorithm;

    1. Has the incumbent government done all right? If so, they win another term.
    2. If they haven't done all right, what does the opposition look like? If they're halfway plausible, they win, if not then the government wins.

    Right now, the answers are 1. No and 2. Yes, and there's very little Sunak can do about either.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,256
    edited February 17
    “My expectation is that there are enough voters who would crawl over broken glass to vote the Tories out.”
    @TSE

    Yes
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    eek said:

    This isnt so much a Labour victory as a Conservative defeat. The Conservatives might as well be Starmers election agent.

    But the size of the defeat will depend on the number of none Tory voters intent on ensuring the Tory party are kicked out.

    And as TSE says above there are a lot of people annoyed enough by the last 2 years of Tory "Government" to really want to kick them out.
    I think their bigger problem is their supporters who stay at home. The line up of alternatives isnt the strongest I can recall.
    That's usually the case.

    There are people who switch parties, sure, but those who oscillate between "vote for X" and "sit this one out" are more significant.

    The logistics of political campaigns are much more about identifying and galvanising soft supporters than converting people.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    eek said:

    This isnt so much a Labour victory as a Conservative defeat. The Conservatives might as well be Starmers election agent.

    But the size of the defeat will depend on the number of none Tory voters intent on ensuring the Tory party are kicked out.

    And as TSE says above there are a lot of people annoyed enough by the last 2 years of Tory "Government" to really want to kick them out.
    I think their bigger problem is their supporters who stay at home. The line up of alternatives isnt the strongest I can recall.
    That's usually the case.

    There are people who switch parties, sure, but those who oscillate between "vote for X" and "sit this one out" are more significant.

    The logistics of political campaigns are much more about identifying and galvanising soft supporters than converting people.
    In this case SKS is so frightfully dull they cant even use the scare the voters schtick to improve turnout.
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    mickydroymickydroy Posts: 234
    HYUFD said:

    On the Kingswood swing Labour would win but only with a majority of 60 ie smaller than any of Blair's majorities in 1997, 2001 or 2005.

    On the Wellingborough swing though the Tories would be near wiped out and down to just 4 MPs.

    Sunak will therefore hope the latter was just a reflection of Bone and his lady friend being the candidate

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/16/keir-starmer-byelection-wins-labour-wellingborough-kingswood

    I think the Wellingborough result has a lot to do with the Torys unbelievably putting up Bones partner as candidate, I think a 60 majority is probably as many as Labour can hope, although that would be an incredible turnaround from when they lost in Hartlepool
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    kamskikamski Posts: 4,234
    Just checked there are 8 vegan restaurants within 1km of my front door:
    2 Vietnamese
    1 Kebab/Turkish
    1 Falafel/Turkish
    2 Pizza
    1 Asian fusion
    1 Burger

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    eek said:

    This isnt so much a Labour victory as a Conservative defeat. The Conservatives might as well be Starmers election agent.

    But the size of the defeat will depend on the number of none Tory voters intent on ensuring the Tory party are kicked out.

    And as TSE says above there are a lot of people annoyed enough by the last 2 years of Tory "Government" to really want to kick them out.
    I think their bigger problem is their supporters who stay at home. The line up of alternatives isnt the strongest I can recall.
    That's usually the case.

    There are people who switch parties, sure, but those who oscillate between "vote for X" and "sit this one out" are more significant.

    The logistics of political campaigns are much more about identifying and galvanising soft supporters than converting people.
    In this case SKS is so frightfully dull they cant even use the scare the voters schtick to improve turnout.
    Still straw-clutching, Alan!
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    eek said:

    This isnt so much a Labour victory as a Conservative defeat. The Conservatives might as well be Starmers election agent.

    But the size of the defeat will depend on the number of none Tory voters intent on ensuring the Tory party are kicked out.

    And as TSE says above there are a lot of people annoyed enough by the last 2 years of Tory "Government" to really want to kick them out.
    I think their bigger problem is their supporters who stay at home. The line up of alternatives isnt the strongest I can recall.
    That's usually the case.

    There are people who switch parties, sure, but those who oscillate between "vote for X" and "sit this one out" are more significant.

    The logistics of political campaigns are much more about identifying and galvanising soft supporters than converting people.
    In this case SKS is so frightfully dull they cant even use the scare the voters schtick to improve turnout.
    Still straw-clutching, Alan!
    I assume english isnt your first language ?
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    This isnt so much a Labour victory as a Conservative defeat. The Conservatives might as well be Starmers election agent.

    Back in 1945, Alan spaketh: "This isn't so much an Allied victory as a German defeat."
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    The Tories have had their turn and are no longer fit for office. I can't think of a fellow right-winger left who thinks the Tories are doing a good job and are fit for purpose.

    Hopefully the Tories can sort themselves out in opposition, but more likely seems they'll double down in defeat going down some bad Enoch tribute act route in which case they'll cede Downing Street to Labour for a generation.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    This isnt so much a Labour victory as a Conservative defeat. The Conservatives might as well be Starmers election agent.

    Back in 1945, Alan spaketh: "This isn't so much an Allied victory as a German defeat."
    of course I blame your mother you know. She has failed.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,474

    This isnt so much a Labour victory as a Conservative defeat. The Conservatives might as well be Starmers election agent.

    Back in 1945, Alan spaketh: "This isn't so much an Allied victory as a German defeat."
    of course I blame your mother you know. She has failed.
    Can there be a victory without a defeat ?
    Or vice versa ?
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,243
    edited February 17

    eek said:

    This isnt so much a Labour victory as a Conservative defeat. The Conservatives might as well be Starmers election agent.

    But the size of the defeat will depend on the number of none Tory voters intent on ensuring the Tory party are kicked out.

    And as TSE says above there are a lot of people annoyed enough by the last 2 years of Tory "Government" to really want to kick them out.
    I think their bigger problem is their supporters who stay at home. The line up of alternatives isnt the strongest I can recall.
    That's usually the case.

    There are people who switch parties, sure, but those who oscillate between "vote for X" and "sit this one out" are more significant.

    The logistics of political campaigns are much more about identifying and galvanising soft supporters than converting people.
    In this case SKS is so frightfully dull they cant even use the scare the voters schtick to improve turnout.
    Still straw-clutching, Alan!
    I assume English isn't your first language ?
    It's my 100th language, in fact.

    BTW, you put a small case "E" in English and left out the apostrophe in "isn't".
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124
    edited February 17
    HYUFD said:

    On the Kingswood swing Labour would win but only with a majority of 60 ie smaller than any of Blair's majorities in 1997, 2001 or 2005.

    On the Wellingborough swing though the Tories would be near wiped out and down to just 4 MPs.

    Sunak will therefore hope the latter was just a reflection of Bone and his lady friend being the candidate

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/16/keir-starmer-byelection-wins-labour-wellingborough-kingswood

    Ric Holden was telling me only yesterday that we can expect Refuk voters to return to the Conservative fold and incumbent voters who stay at home for by elections return for a GE . He was suggesting that in the grand scheme of things Labour had suffered a shocker on Friday morning. He also hinted a magnificent Tory victory was so assured he might not contest the next GE.
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    HYUFD said:

    On the Kingswood swing Labour would win but only with a majority of 60 ie smaller than any of Blair's majorities in 1997, 2001 or 2005.

    On the Wellingborough swing though the Tories would be near wiped out and down to just 4 MPs.

    Sunak will therefore hope the latter was just a reflection of Bone and his lady friend being the candidate

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/16/keir-starmer-byelection-wins-labour-wellingborough-kingswood

    Ric Holden was telling me only yesterday that we can expect Refuk voters to return to the Conservative fold and incumbent voters who stay at home for by elections return for a GE . He was suggesting that in the grand scheme of things Labour had suffered a shocker on Friday morning. He also hinted a magnificent Tory victory was so assured he might not contest the next GE.
    You couldn't make it up
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Yes

    Hence our obesity. But it’s not just Britain - this is a problem across the world - processed food is winning and it is shit. It gives you that carby salty sweetish hit but it is nutrionally suspect and addictive

    I fear Thai food is going the same way. Tinned and bottled sauces full of crap which taste nice enough but inject you with chemicals

    Maybe Cambodia is great BECAUSE it is still poor. They eat the greens and the rice and the husk and the eveything. They treat food with respect as they have known dire famine

    And they are all so incredibly slim and healthy
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    Vietnam and Cambodia - two of the best cuisines in the world - where you can eat better than anywhere in the world - are both in the bottom five nations for obesity rates. That surely says something


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate
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    If you want to know just how much trouble the Cons are in just reflect on the fact that they are trying to spin losing a seat on a 16% swing as a reasonable result. It was a poor result - a fact only obscured by comparison with Wellingborough which (for obvious reasons) was much much worse.

    Meanwhile just reflect on the chance that maybe this exemplifies the differential swing which could turn a simple Con defeat into a much worse one. I'm not quite convinced on that though the evidence is perhaps beginning to pile up. Local elections and byelections, parliamentary byelections, that Survation poll last month of the 100 most rural English Seats (Lab lead was 3%, a swing of 21% since the last GE). We won't know until actual votes are cast but it is worth keeping an eye on.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,449

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    I like Keralan.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Premier Inn sous chef to head chef: "how long do I need to boil this bag of rice for?"
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
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    The Sunak government are basically pissing down our back and telling us it's raining. They keep crowing about how they've halved inflation and their plan is working, whilst in reality we've dropped into recession, people have never paid so much just to keep a roof over their head, feed their families and keep them warm. Infrastructure is on its arse, NHS waiting lists are through the roof, small business insolvency is at its highest since 2008 and a million households have yet to remortgage on to significantly higher rates.The list is endless.
    That's why the Tories are done.
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    AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    I am not sure I buy this idea that Labour cannot be held responsible for winning because the Tories are losing.

    The Tories always get kicked out because they lose. The fact Labour are not very popular is really neither here nor there, I think the Tories have an idea that Labour are actually really unpopular when in reality the country collectively says "meh". But they really, really don't like the Tories.

    In some sense, the Tories have adopted the Labour logic of 2019. Which is quite weird to watch.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,554
    edited February 17

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    There are at least half a dozen Vietnamese restaurants within a short walk from me on Deptford high street (Deptford has a big Vietnamese population) and inexcusably I’ve not yet been to any of them. I need to change this. My excuse up to now has been a mixture of children not liking chilli (but that has now changed with age), and the restaurants themselves looking a bit uninviting like glorified takeaways and never that full.
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    AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169

    This isnt so much a Labour victory as a Conservative defeat. The Conservatives might as well be Starmers election agent.

    This is essentially irrelevant. Whether it is Labour storming ahead or the Tories being massively unpopular, it doesn't matter if SKS ends up with a 150 seat majority. No amount of spinning will be able to say that Labour hasn't "smashed it", especially after 2019.

    I know people are desperate to not give SKS any credit but he has pursued an identical strategy since the day he was elected, "make boring great again". He is lucky that the Tories have imploded but the only way Labour was ever going to win was it that happened, so he has wisely decided to just watch.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,554

    I am not sure I buy this idea that Labour cannot be held responsible for winning because the Tories are losing.

    The Tories always get kicked out because they lose. The fact Labour are not very popular is really neither here nor there, I think the Tories have an idea that Labour are actually really unpopular when in reality the country collectively says "meh". But they really, really don't like the Tories.

    In some sense, the Tories have adopted the Labour logic of 2019. Which is quite weird to watch.

    In 1997 there were dozens of articles bemoaning voter apathy and Labour not yet enthusing the electorate, though I do recall a bit more optimism and positivity than now. In 1979 I was too young to know what was going on but by all accounts Thatcher didn’t arrive in a maelstrom of excitement and well wishing, and in 2010 Labour lost because they were tired and divided, and the Tories under Cameron seemed acceptable enough.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    TimS said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    There are at least half a dozen Vietnamese restaurants within a short walk from me on Deptford high street (Deptford has a big Vietnamese population) and inexcusably I’ve not yet been to any of them. I need to change this. My excuse up to now has been a mixture of children not liking chilli (but that has now changed with age), and the restaurants themselves looking a bit uninviting like glorified takeaways and never that full.
    Have you been to Vietnam? A well-made pho is a thing of great beauty and refinement - and extreme healthy - but I wonder if British versions do it right (I’ve never tried)


    Vietnamese food is also superbly varied. They really do dish up the best sandwiches on earth (alongside the Brits when we are on form): banh mi

    https://hiddenlandtravel.com/hoi-banh-mi-the-worlds-best-sandwich/

    Bourdain was not lying. I’ve tried these from this place. Mmmmm
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,554

    This isnt so much a Labour victory as a Conservative defeat. The Conservatives might as well be Starmers election agent.

    This is essentially irrelevant. Whether it is Labour storming ahead or the Tories being massively unpopular, it doesn't matter if SKS ends up with a 150 seat majority. No amount of spinning will be able to say that Labour hasn't "smashed it", especially after 2019.

    I know people are desperate to not give SKS any credit but he has pursued an identical strategy since the day he was elected, "make boring great again". He is lucky that the Tories have imploded but the only way Labour was ever going to win was it that happened, so he has wisely decided to just watch.
    Where do we think public expectations are now? Ie what kind of majority would Labour need for people to be surprised at their success?

    I’d say at the moment anything around or exceeding the Johnson score in 2019 would have journalists cracking open the hyperbole. Most people don’t follow polling as closely as we do here and almost certainly don’t realise current polls are showing 1997-style scores.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Yes

    Hence our obesity. But it’s not just Britain - this is a problem across the world - processed food is winning and it is shit. It gives you that carby salty sweetish hit but it is nutrionally suspect and addictive

    I fear Thai food is going the same way. Tinned and bottled sauces full of crap which taste nice enough but inject you with chemicals

    Maybe Cambodia is great BECAUSE it is still poor. They eat the greens and the rice and the husk and the eveything. They treat food with respect as they have known dire famine

    And they are all so incredibly slim and healthy
    Even in Eastern Europe, though, they always have salads and fruit on offer at their restaurants - and a good range at that - and cook breasts, chops and shoulder cuts of meat very well, with delicate sauces and potatoes on the side in a way that offers a more balanced meal.

    We seem to have incubated entry-level American / Italian cuisine in the worst way possible, and turbocharged it.
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    AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    edited February 17
    TimS said:

    This isnt so much a Labour victory as a Conservative defeat. The Conservatives might as well be Starmers election agent.

    This is essentially irrelevant. Whether it is Labour storming ahead or the Tories being massively unpopular, it doesn't matter if SKS ends up with a 150 seat majority. No amount of spinning will be able to say that Labour hasn't "smashed it", especially after 2019.

    I know people are desperate to not give SKS any credit but he has pursued an identical strategy since the day he was elected, "make boring great again". He is lucky that the Tories have imploded but the only way Labour was ever going to win was it that happened, so he has wisely decided to just watch.
    Where do we think public expectations are now? Ie what kind of majority would Labour need for people to be surprised at their success?

    I’d say at the moment anything around or exceeding the Johnson score in 2019 would have journalists cracking open the hyperbole. Most people don’t follow polling as closely as we do here and almost certainly don’t realise current polls are showing 1997-style scores.
    If Labour gets a majority of any kind SKS will be able to say he is one of the greatest Labour election winners ever. If it's somehow over 100 he will be hailed as Blair 2.0, just you watch.

    He isn't Blair 2.0 of course, that's ridiculous. He's nothing like Blair, either in charisma or popularity. But I can guarantee that if it happens, people will say it was always expected and obvious, even people who the day before had said it wasn't going to happen.

    And when they eventually lose again, people will say SKS was never popular. And so the cycle repeats.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,554
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    There are at least half a dozen Vietnamese restaurants within a short walk from me on Deptford high street (Deptford has a big Vietnamese population) and inexcusably I’ve not yet been to any of them. I need to change this. My excuse up to now has been a mixture of children not liking chilli (but that has now changed with age), and the restaurants themselves looking a bit uninviting like glorified takeaways and never that full.
    Have you been to Vietnam? A well-made pho is a thing of great beauty and refinement - and extreme healthy - but I wonder if British versions do it right (I’ve never tried)


    Vietnamese food is also superbly varied. They really do dish up the best sandwiches on earth (alongside the Brits when we are on form): banh mi

    https://hiddenlandtravel.com/hoi-banh-mi-the-worlds-best-sandwich/

    Bourdain was not lying. I’ve tried these from this place. Mmmmm
    I’ve not. Which might be just as well as I won’t have a reference point against which to be disappointed.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
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    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,796
    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Yes

    Hence our obesity. But it’s not just Britain - this is a problem across the world - processed food is winning and it is shit. It gives you that carby salty sweetish hit but it is nutrionally suspect and addictive

    I fear Thai food is going the same way. Tinned and bottled sauces full of crap which taste nice enough but inject you with chemicals

    Maybe Cambodia is great BECAUSE it is still poor. They eat the greens and the rice and the husk and the eveything. They treat food with respect as they have known dire famine

    And they are all so incredibly slim and healthy
    Even in Eastern Europe, though, they always have salads and fruit on offer at their restaurants - and a good range at that - and cook breasts, chops and shoulder cuts of meat very well, with delicate sauces and potatoes on the side in a way that offers a more balanced meal.

    We seem to have incubated entry-level American / Italian cuisine in the worst way possible, and turbocharged it.
    Problem with British food is that it is EXPENSIVE to eat healthily. Seafood, proper salads, lean game with good veggies - you go to a mid-upmarket gastro or restaurant or shop at M&S and cook

    It is the opposite somewhere like here. The cheap street food is ultra healthy. Greens in a nutritious sauce, fish broth, lean protein, nothing processed. You can feed your kids for pennies and it tastes nice and they learn that

    Cheap food in Britain is McDonald’s and KFC. If you’re really lucky it’s Nando’s and pizza express

    Look at photos of Brits in the early 70s. We were all slim like Cambodians now
  • Options
    TimS said:

    This isnt so much a Labour victory as a Conservative defeat. The Conservatives might as well be Starmers election agent.

    This is essentially irrelevant. Whether it is Labour storming ahead or the Tories being massively unpopular, it doesn't matter if SKS ends up with a 150 seat majority. No amount of spinning will be able to say that Labour hasn't "smashed it", especially after 2019.

    I know people are desperate to not give SKS any credit but he has pursued an identical strategy since the day he was elected, "make boring great again". He is lucky that the Tories have imploded but the only way Labour was ever going to win was it that happened, so he has wisely decided to just watch.
    Where do we think public expectations are now? Ie what kind of majority would Labour need for people to be surprised at their success?

    I’d say at the moment anything around or exceeding the Johnson score in 2019 would have journalists cracking open the hyperbole. Most people don’t follow polling as closely as we do here and almost certainly don’t realise current polls are showing 1997-style scores.
    Partly that's because some of the headline polls from 1994/5/6 did show crazy ratings, with leads in the high 30s. They were from pollsters who hadn't started doing shy Tory adjustments properly, but they were certainly there. But Starmer has been tracking Blair's performance in the more cautious/modern methodology polls for a while now.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302

    TimS said:

    This isnt so much a Labour victory as a Conservative defeat. The Conservatives might as well be Starmers election agent.

    This is essentially irrelevant. Whether it is Labour storming ahead or the Tories being massively unpopular, it doesn't matter if SKS ends up with a 150 seat majority. No amount of spinning will be able to say that Labour hasn't "smashed it", especially after 2019.

    I know people are desperate to not give SKS any credit but he has pursued an identical strategy since the day he was elected, "make boring great again". He is lucky that the Tories have imploded but the only way Labour was ever going to win was it that happened, so he has wisely decided to just watch.
    Where do we think public expectations are now? Ie what kind of majority would Labour need for people to be surprised at their success?

    I’d say at the moment anything around or exceeding the Johnson score in 2019 would have journalists cracking open the hyperbole. Most people don’t follow polling as closely as we do here and almost certainly don’t realise current polls are showing 1997-style scores.
    If Labour gets a majority of any kind SKS will be able to say he is one of the greatest Labour election winners ever. If it's somehow over 100 he will be hailed as Blair 2.0, just you watch.

    He isn't Blair 2.0 of course, that's ridiculous. He's nothing like Blair, either in charisma or popularity. But I can guarantee that if it happens, people will say it was always expected and obvious, even people who the day before had said it wasn't going to happen.

    And when they eventually lose again, people will say SKS was never popular. And so the cycle repeats.
    Maybe we could raise a statue to him? Hell, why not go further: why not found a new church?

    You could be one of the priests. Think about it: High Priestess AverageNinja: convener of the Church of Starmer.

    You'd get to decide all sorts of things: the scriptures, the fables, the chants, the smell of the incense, and, most importantly, how to deal with heretics.

    Got to be worth a try. Sounds like so much fun.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,554
    edited February 17

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Few countries do real steak well. The Americans can do of course, as can most of Latin America. Within Europe French steak frites is ok but a different less hearty dish from its US cousin, Italy can sort of do it though is better at veal, the Spanish prefer pork, and then there’s a vast swathe of land from Amsterdam to Vladivostok and Colombo where it just doesn’t happen. Then you’re back in business in Southern and Eastern Africa, and Australia.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    I’ve really come to appreciate Greek food. I used to despise it as ultra repetitive, then in autumn 2019 I spent a month there in Pelion. It was glorious

    I got to know the few local tavernas and restaurants and the owners and clients and I had the same food every day. Greek salad, the local fish, chips, ouzo, bread, maybe some moussaka and hummus and taramasalata for variation. Fresh fruit for pudding perhaps an ice cream once every few days

    I swam every day from the rocks by my hotel. For an hour. I slept deeply at night. I drank quite a lot of their now excellent white wine.

    I was mesmerisingly happy. The lack of choice seemed to help. I was also suntanned and fit and extremely serene

    It’s all you need to be happy. Good seafood, sun, a swim, a nice glass of wine, chat, laugh, sleep, repeat
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,614
    Small world isn't it. Today I was at a campaigning event in constituency x (obviously delivering copies of the Socialist Worker being the left winger I am) and overheard someone who was from constituency y, of which I was chair some 25 years ago. I couldn't remember the exact time and when I look at the names on the internet they have all changed from my time there. We chatted and tried to see if we were both around at the same time. Neither of us recognised each other and seemed to have nothing in common from our past. He then said did you know z to which my reply was yes I was chair and on the selection committee when she was selected as PPC and she was his girlfriend at the time (both with other partners now). It appears we knew one another well, but time hasn't done either of us any favours obviously. As I said, small world.
  • Options

    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
    All food is pretty much processed. It's the ultra processed industrially manufactured edible products that you need to avoid.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    Ice really

    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
    Bread is made by a process. But some breads are much more processed than others. Just check the ingredients - from weird colouring to dodgy corn syrup to endless E numbers

    Basically, avoid as much of that shit as possible - is a pretty good motto
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Few countries do real steak well. The Americans can do of course, as can most of Latin America. Within Europe French steak frites is ok but a different less hearty dish from its US cousin, Italy can sort of do it though is better at veal, the Spanish prefer pork, and then there’s a vast swathe of land from Amsterdam to Vladivostok and Colombo where it just doesn’t happen. Then you’re back in business in Southern and Eastern Africa, and Australia.
    I demur at “most of Latin America”. In my experience they all fuck it up. Latin American food is generally terrible - down there with Africa, the Middle East - apart from a few coastal spots with nice seafood (Ushuaia, bits of Peru)

    The argentines really can do steak of course, but that’s all they can do
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,474
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    Ice really

    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
    Bread is made by a process. But some breads are much more processed than others. Just check the ingredients - from weird colouring to dodgy corn syrup to endless E numbers

    Basically, avoid as much of that shit as possible - is a pretty good motto
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,258
    edited February 17
    TimS said:

    I am not sure I buy this idea that Labour cannot be held responsible for winning because the Tories are losing.

    The Tories always get kicked out because they lose. The fact Labour are not very popular is really neither here nor there, I think the Tories have an idea that Labour are actually really unpopular when in reality the country collectively says "meh". But they really, really don't like the Tories.

    In some sense, the Tories have adopted the Labour logic of 2019. Which is quite weird to watch.

    In 1997 there were dozens of articles bemoaning voter apathy and Labour not yet enthusing the electorate, though I do recall a bit more optimism and positivity than now. In 1979 I was too young to know what was going on but by all accounts Thatcher didn’t arrive in a maelstrom of excitement and well wishing, and in 2010 Labour lost because they were tired and divided, and the Tories under Cameron seemed acceptable enough.
    I was convincingly converted to Blair and Labour in 1997 and voted for them for the first time, I followed this in 2001

    However, Starmer is not anywhere near Blair either in charisma or policy ( indeed apart from vat on private school fees he has none) and whilst he will be the next PM it will not be with my vote which is assigned to the lib dems as our conservative mp is hopeless

    It is all rather academic as the issues facing our country, and indeed worldwide, are beyond any politicians ability to take the hard, really hard, decisions that are needed going forward

    This was the Scottish Press and Journals take on Labour a couple of days ago


    https://twitter.com/Kennyaberdeen/status/1758029417891111151?t=oNtGj70j45NBqo5Bh_BYsA&s=19
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,554
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Few countries do real steak well. The Americans can do of course, as can most of Latin America. Within Europe French steak frites is ok but a different less hearty dish from its US cousin, Italy can sort of do it though is better at veal, the Spanish prefer pork, and then there’s a vast swathe of land from Amsterdam to Vladivostok and Colombo where it just doesn’t happen. Then you’re back in business in Southern and Eastern Africa, and Australia.
    I demur at “most of Latin America”. In my experience they all fuck it up. Latin American food is generally terrible - down there with Africa, the Middle East - apart from a few coastal spots with nice seafood (Ushuaia, bits of Peru)

    The argentines really can do steak of course, but that’s all they can do
    I’ve been pretty happy with Brazilian steak (on those big skewers), and Mexicans do beef pretty well though not in European steak style.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,474
    Anyone done this test ?

    Short Oxford-Liverpool Inventory of Feelings and Experiences (O-LIFE).
    https://www.psytoolkit.org/survey-library/schizotypy-short-olife.html#_the_test_itself

    Quite interesting range of results from those I know who have.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,005
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    There are at least half a dozen Vietnamese restaurants within a short walk from me on Deptford high street (Deptford has a big Vietnamese population) and inexcusably I’ve not yet been to any of them. I need to change this. My excuse up to now has been a mixture of children not liking chilli (but that has now changed with age), and the restaurants themselves looking a bit uninviting like glorified takeaways and never that full.
    Have you been to Vietnam? A well-made pho is a thing of great beauty and refinement - and extreme healthy - but I wonder if British versions do it right (I’ve never tried)


    Vietnamese food is also superbly varied. They really do dish up the best sandwiches on earth (alongside the Brits when we are on form): banh mi

    https://hiddenlandtravel.com/hoi-banh-mi-the-worlds-best-sandwich/

    Bourdain was not lying. I’ve tried these from this place. Mmmmm
    Since as is your wont you were sourly disobliging about Glasgow last thread, who said ‘From my very first time - it was Glasgow. My favourite city in Scotland. One of my favourite places on earth.’
  • Options
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    There are at least half a dozen Vietnamese restaurants within a short walk from me on Deptford high street (Deptford has a big Vietnamese population) and inexcusably I’ve not yet been to any of them. I need to change this. My excuse up to now has been a mixture of children not liking chilli (but that has now changed with age), and the restaurants themselves looking a bit uninviting like glorified takeaways and never that full.
    Have you been to Vietnam? A well-made pho is a thing of great beauty and refinement - and extreme healthy - but I wonder if British versions do it right (I’ve never tried)
    Um, does Wagamama count? :lol:
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,796

    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
    As I said, there are some unavoidable exceptions.
    But with something like bread, it is avoiding the packaged bread with vast amounts of ingredients.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Few countries do real steak well. The Americans can do of course, as can most of Latin America. Within Europe French steak frites is ok but a different less hearty dish from its US cousin, Italy can sort of do it though is better at veal, the Spanish prefer pork, and then there’s a vast swathe of land from Amsterdam to Vladivostok and Colombo where it just doesn’t happen. Then you’re back in business in Southern and Eastern Africa, and Australia.
    I demur at “most of Latin America”. In my experience they all fuck it up. Latin American food is generally terrible - down there with Africa, the Middle East - apart from a few coastal spots with nice seafood (Ushuaia, bits of Peru)

    The argentines really can do steak of course, but that’s all they can do
    I’ve been pretty happy with Brazilian steak (on those big skewers), and Mexicans do beef pretty well though not in European steak style.
    Mexican food is a thing apart

    The best indigenous food in the Americas, surely. An actual local and national cuisine which can go toe-to-toe with anything in Europe or Asia. It’s maybe not a match for China or Italy but it’s excellent, healthy and varied

    “American” food is so varied it is impossible to place. Is it the hamburger or the barbecue or the shit in Walmart’s? It’s European cuisine grafted onto new world plenty, in good and bad ways

    They certainly make sure you don’t starve. I’ve had some of the best food in my life in the USA, and some of the absolute worst
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    There are at least half a dozen Vietnamese restaurants within a short walk from me on Deptford high street (Deptford has a big Vietnamese population) and inexcusably I’ve not yet been to any of them. I need to change this. My excuse up to now has been a mixture of children not liking chilli (but that has now changed with age), and the restaurants themselves looking a bit uninviting like glorified takeaways and never that full.
    Have you been to Vietnam? A well-made pho is a thing of great beauty and refinement - and extreme healthy - but I wonder if British versions do it right (I’ve never tried)
    Um, does Wagamama count? :lol:
    No
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,449
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
    As I said, there are some unavoidable exceptions.
    But with something like bread, it is avoiding the packaged bread with vast amounts of ingredients.
    Spaghetti grows on trees.

    We know that because Panorama.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVo_wkxH9dU
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    Ice really

    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
    Bread is made by a process. But some breads are much more processed than others. Just check the ingredients - from weird colouring to dodgy corn syrup to endless E numbers

    Basically, avoid as much of that shit as possible - is a pretty good motto
    Is it the difference between processed and ultra-processed?

    I mean, if you were being purist about the former, anything you do with wheat, cocoa beans and rice is a form of processing- it's adding in all the unnatural stuff, and taking out too much of the natural goodness, that's the problem.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    Ice really

    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
    Bread is made by a process. But some breads are much more processed than others. Just check the ingredients - from weird colouring to dodgy corn syrup to endless E numbers

    Basically, avoid as much of that shit as possible - is a pretty good motto
    Is it the difference between processed and ultra-processed?

    I mean, if you were being purist about the former, anything you do with wheat, cocoa beans and rice is a form of processing- it's adding in all the unnatural stuff, and taking out too much of the natural goodness, that's the problem.
    That’s how I read it. UPF = the weird shit in the list of ingredients where you think, er what?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    I’ve really come to appreciate Greek food. I used to despise it as ultra repetitive, then in autumn 2019 I spent a month there in Pelion. It was glorious

    I got to know the few local tavernas and restaurants and the owners and clients and I had the same food every day. Greek salad, the local fish, chips, ouzo, bread, maybe some moussaka and hummus and taramasalata for variation. Fresh fruit for pudding perhaps an ice cream once every few days

    I swam every day from the rocks by my hotel. For an hour. I slept deeply at night. I drank quite a lot of their now excellent white wine.

    I was mesmerisingly happy. The lack of choice seemed to help. I was also suntanned and fit and extremely serene

    It’s all you need to be happy. Good seafood, sun, a swim, a nice glass of wine, chat, laugh, sleep, repeat
    That sounds amazing.

    Of course, when people say "Mediterranean diet" they are really referring to this, but too often it's reduced to just eating olive oil and a good salad here.

    I can't recall meeting many (any?) Greek or Bulgarian vegetarians or vegans - ever.

    They just eat good food in balance.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,474
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    Ice really

    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
    Bread is made by a process. But some breads are much more processed than others. Just check the ingredients - from weird colouring to dodgy corn syrup to endless E numbers

    Basically, avoid as much of that shit as possible - is a pretty good motto
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process
    "...Compared to traditional bread-making processes, CBP uses more yeast, added fats, chemicals, and high-speed mixing to allow the dough to be made with lower-protein wheat, and produces bread in a shorter time. It was developed by Bill Collins, George Elton and Norman Chamberlain of the British Baking Industries Research Association at Chorleywood in 1961. As of 2009, 80% of bread made in the United Kingdom used the process.."
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,765
    edited February 17
    Nigelb said:

    Anyone done this test ?

    Short Oxford-Liverpool Inventory of Feelings and Experiences (O-LIFE).
    https://www.psytoolkit.org/survey-library/schizotypy-short-olife.html#_the_test_itself

    Quite interesting range of results from those I know who have.

    I got 9 on the Cognitive Disorganisation part and 5 on the Introvertive Anhedonia, but low on the other two. Does that mean I have ADD?
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,875

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    I’ve really come to appreciate Greek food. I used to despise it as ultra repetitive, then in autumn 2019 I spent a month there in Pelion. It was glorious

    I got to know the few local tavernas and restaurants and the owners and clients and I had the same food every day. Greek salad, the local fish, chips, ouzo, bread, maybe some moussaka and hummus and taramasalata for variation. Fresh fruit for pudding perhaps an ice cream once every few days

    I swam every day from the rocks by my hotel. For an hour. I slept deeply at night. I drank quite a lot of their now excellent white wine.

    I was mesmerisingly happy. The lack of choice seemed to help. I was also suntanned and fit and extremely serene

    It’s all you need to be happy. Good seafood, sun, a swim, a nice glass of wine, chat, laugh, sleep, repeat
    That sounds amazing.

    Of course, when people say "Mediterranean diet" they are really referring to this, but too often it's reduced to just eating olive oil and a good salad here.

    I can't recall meeting many (any?) Greek or Bulgarian vegetarians or vegans - ever.

    They just eat good food in balance.
    There is an article in The Times today about the "Atlantic diet", by which they mean northwestern Spain and Portugal, which is the Mediterranean diet, plus red meat, and bread, and wine, and pasta, and dairy...

    the Atlantic diet — can reduce belly fat, high blood pressure and cholesterol levels. The risk of heart disease and diabetes is also lowered. Increasingly, there’s a buzz around the diet among nutritionists and scientists. Other studies have suggested that it may even reduce depression and increase longevity.

    it also features moderate amounts of meat, mainly pork, some starchy-based carbs like bread and pasta, dairy including milk and a little wine.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,449

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    There are at least half a dozen Vietnamese restaurants within a short walk from me on Deptford high street (Deptford has a big Vietnamese population) and inexcusably I’ve not yet been to any of them. I need to change this. My excuse up to now has been a mixture of children not liking chilli (but that has now changed with age), and the restaurants themselves looking a bit uninviting like glorified takeaways and never that full.
    Have you been to Vietnam? A well-made pho is a thing of great beauty and refinement - and extreme healthy - but I wonder if British versions do it right (I’ve never tried)


    Vietnamese food is also superbly varied. They really do dish up the best sandwiches on earth (alongside the Brits when we are on form): banh mi

    https://hiddenlandtravel.com/hoi-banh-mi-the-worlds-best-sandwich/

    Bourdain was not lying. I’ve tried these from this place. Mmmmm
    Since as is your wont you were sourly disobliging about Glasgow last thread, who said ‘From my very first time - it was Glasgow. My favourite city in Scotland. One of my favourite places on earth.’
    Where you may easily eat your last ice-cream.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    I’ve really come to appreciate Greek food. I used to despise it as ultra repetitive, then in autumn 2019 I spent a month there in Pelion. It was glorious

    I got to know the few local tavernas and restaurants and the owners and clients and I had the same food every day. Greek salad, the local fish, chips, ouzo, bread, maybe some moussaka and hummus and taramasalata for variation. Fresh fruit for pudding perhaps an ice cream once every few days

    I swam every day from the rocks by my hotel. For an hour. I slept deeply at night. I drank quite a lot of their now excellent white wine.

    I was mesmerisingly happy. The lack of choice seemed to help. I was also suntanned and fit and extremely serene

    It’s all you need to be happy. Good seafood, sun, a swim, a nice glass of wine, chat, laugh, sleep, repeat
    That sounds amazing.

    Of course, when people say "Mediterranean diet" they are really referring to this, but too often it's reduced to just eating olive oil and a good salad here.

    I can't recall meeting many (any?) Greek or Bulgarian vegetarians or vegans - ever.

    They just eat good food in balance.
    Yes exactly. Half of it is the lifestyle. Walking swimming sunshine. We can’t replicate all of that in the uk but we have a lovely walkable country - walk! And chat. Chill out. Eat grilled fish

    It’s not impossible

    Here’s an interesting example of what might be a UPF but isn’t. I eat a fair amount of this. It’s microwave Tilda basmati rice, whole and wild rice mixed. It sounds like it should be full of shit. It is not

    Ingredients:

    “Natural Brown Basmati Rice - Steamed (89%), Natural Wild Rice - Steamed (10%), Rice Bran Oil”

    That’s it. That’s all. It’s good for you. And it’s nutty and delicious



  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    I’ve really come to appreciate Greek food. I used to despise it as ultra repetitive, then in autumn 2019 I spent a month there in Pelion. It was glorious

    I got to know the few local tavernas and restaurants and the owners and clients and I had the same food every day. Greek salad, the local fish, chips, ouzo, bread, maybe some moussaka and hummus and taramasalata for variation. Fresh fruit for pudding perhaps an ice cream once every few days

    I swam every day from the rocks by my hotel. For an hour. I slept deeply at night. I drank quite a lot of their now excellent white wine.

    I was mesmerisingly happy. The lack of choice seemed to help. I was also suntanned and fit and extremely serene

    It’s all you need to be happy. Good seafood, sun, a swim, a nice glass of wine, chat, laugh, sleep, repeat
    That sounds amazing.

    Of course, when people say "Mediterranean diet" they are really referring to this, but too often it's reduced to just eating olive oil and a good salad here.

    I can't recall meeting many (any?) Greek or Bulgarian vegetarians or vegans - ever.

    They just eat good food in balance.
    There is an article in The Times today about the "Atlantic diet", by which they mean northwestern Spain and Portugal, which is the Mediterranean diet, plus red meat, and bread, and wine, and pasta, and dairy...

    the Atlantic diet — can reduce belly fat, high blood pressure and cholesterol levels. The risk of heart disease and diabetes is also lowered. Increasingly, there’s a buzz around the diet among nutritionists and scientists. Other studies have suggested that it may even reduce depression and increase longevity.

    it also features moderate amounts of meat, mainly pork, some starchy-based carbs like bread and pasta, dairy including milk and a little wine.
    It sounds amazing. I love that sort of diet.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    I’ve really come to appreciate Greek food. I used to despise it as ultra repetitive, then in autumn 2019 I spent a month there in Pelion. It was glorious

    I got to know the few local tavernas and restaurants and the owners and clients and I had the same food every day. Greek salad, the local fish, chips, ouzo, bread, maybe some moussaka and hummus and taramasalata for variation. Fresh fruit for pudding perhaps an ice cream once every few days

    I swam every day from the rocks by my hotel. For an hour. I slept deeply at night. I drank quite a lot of their now excellent white wine.

    I was mesmerisingly happy. The lack of choice seemed to help. I was also suntanned and fit and extremely serene

    It’s all you need to be happy. Good seafood, sun, a swim, a nice glass of wine, chat, laugh, sleep, repeat
    That sounds amazing.

    Of course, when people say "Mediterranean diet" they are really referring to this, but too often it's reduced to just eating olive oil and a good salad here.

    I can't recall meeting many (any?) Greek or Bulgarian vegetarians or vegans - ever.

    They just eat good food in balance.
    Yes exactly. Half of it is the lifestyle. Walking swimming sunshine. We can’t replicate all of that in the uk but we have a lovely walkable country - walk! And chat. Chill out. Eat grilled fish

    It’s not impossible

    Here’s an interesting example of what might be a UPF but isn’t. I eat a fair amount of this. It’s microwave Tilda basmati rice, whole and wild rice mixed. It sounds like it should be full of shit. It is not

    Ingredients:

    “Natural Brown Basmati Rice - Steamed (89%), Natural Wild Rice - Steamed (10%), Rice Bran Oil”

    That’s it. That’s all. It’s good for you. And it’s nutty and delicious



    Funny you should mention that as I've just popped to Waitrose for a couple of packets of Tilda's to do a Thai Massaman curry at home.

    It's a great find.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,474
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    I’ve really come to appreciate Greek food. I used to despise it as ultra repetitive, then in autumn 2019 I spent a month there in Pelion. It was glorious

    I got to know the few local tavernas and restaurants and the owners and clients and I had the same food every day. Greek salad, the local fish, chips, ouzo, bread, maybe some moussaka and hummus and taramasalata for variation. Fresh fruit for pudding perhaps an ice cream once every few days

    I swam every day from the rocks by my hotel. For an hour. I slept deeply at night. I drank quite a lot of their now excellent white wine.

    I was mesmerisingly happy. The lack of choice seemed to help. I was also suntanned and fit and extremely serene

    It’s all you need to be happy. Good seafood, sun, a swim, a nice glass of wine, chat, laugh, sleep, repeat
    That sounds amazing.

    Of course, when people say "Mediterranean diet" they are really referring to this, but too often it's reduced to just eating olive oil and a good salad here.

    I can't recall meeting many (any?) Greek or Bulgarian vegetarians or vegans - ever.

    They just eat good food in balance.
    There is an article in The Times today about the "Atlantic diet", by which they mean northwestern Spain and Portugal, which is the Mediterranean diet, plus red meat, and bread, and wine, and pasta, and dairy...

    the Atlantic diet — can reduce belly fat, high blood pressure and cholesterol levels. The risk of heart disease and diabetes is also lowered. Increasingly, there’s a buzz around the diet among nutritionists and scientists. Other studies have suggested that it may even reduce depression and increase longevity.

    it also features moderate amounts of meat, mainly pork, some starchy-based carbs like bread and pasta, dairy including milk and a little wine.
    There are, of course, many confounding factors in dietary research.
    One is the amount he regular exercise which is normal in a given population - which is possibly the case here ?

    Carbs from beans rather than pasta/bread also seems to have positive effects.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    There are at least half a dozen Vietnamese restaurants within a short walk from me on Deptford high street (Deptford has a big Vietnamese population) and inexcusably I’ve not yet been to any of them. I need to change this. My excuse up to now has been a mixture of children not liking chilli (but that has now changed with age), and the restaurants themselves looking a bit uninviting like glorified takeaways and never that full.
    Have you been to Vietnam? A well-made pho is a thing of great beauty and refinement - and extreme healthy - but I wonder if British versions do it right (I’ve never tried)
    Um, does Wagamama count? :lol:
    No
    Oh, well. Better stick to Mum's unprocessed basmati rice with curried chickpeas, a bit of dal, and dry broccoli :)
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    Ice really

    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
    Bread is made by a process. But some breads are much more processed than others. Just check the ingredients - from weird colouring to dodgy corn syrup to endless E numbers

    Basically, avoid as much of that shit as possible - is a pretty good motto
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process
    "...Compared to traditional bread-making processes, CBP uses more yeast, added fats, chemicals, and high-speed mixing to allow the dough to be made with lower-protein wheat, and produces bread in a shorter time. It was developed by Bill Collins, George Elton and Norman Chamberlain of the British Baking Industries Research Association at Chorleywood in 1961. As of 2009, 80% of bread made in the United Kingdom used the process.."
    It sounds depressing and shit and unhealthy. But am I being unfair? Serious question
  • Options
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    There are at least half a dozen Vietnamese restaurants within a short walk from me on Deptford high street (Deptford has a big Vietnamese population) and inexcusably I’ve not yet been to any of them. I need to change this. My excuse up to now has been a mixture of children not liking chilli (but that has now changed with age), and the restaurants themselves looking a bit uninviting like glorified takeaways and never that full.
    Have you been to Vietnam? A well-made pho is a thing of great beauty and refinement - and extreme healthy - but I wonder if British versions do it right (I’ve never tried)


    Vietnamese food is also superbly varied. They really do dish up the best sandwiches on earth (alongside the Brits when we are on form): banh mi

    https://hiddenlandtravel.com/hoi-banh-mi-the-worlds-best-sandwich/

    Bourdain was not lying. I’ve tried these from this place. Mmmmm
    Since as is your wont you were sourly disobliging about Glasgow last thread, who said ‘From my very first time - it was Glasgow. My favourite city in Scotland. One of my favourite places on earth.’
    Where you may easily eat your last ice-cream.
    "Last Ice Cream in Glasgow" sounds like a "requel" to "Last Tango in Paris".
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    I’ve really come to appreciate Greek food. I used to despise it as ultra repetitive, then in autumn 2019 I spent a month there in Pelion. It was glorious

    I got to know the few local tavernas and restaurants and the owners and clients and I had the same food every day. Greek salad, the local fish, chips, ouzo, bread, maybe some moussaka and hummus and taramasalata for variation. Fresh fruit for pudding perhaps an ice cream once every few days

    I swam every day from the rocks by my hotel. For an hour. I slept deeply at night. I drank quite a lot of their now excellent white wine.

    I was mesmerisingly happy. The lack of choice seemed to help. I was also suntanned and fit and extremely serene

    It’s all you need to be happy. Good seafood, sun, a swim, a nice glass of wine, chat, laugh, sleep, repeat
    That sounds amazing.

    Of course, when people say "Mediterranean diet" they are really referring to this, but too often it's reduced to just eating olive oil and a good salad here.

    I can't recall meeting many (any?) Greek or Bulgarian vegetarians or vegans - ever.

    They just eat good food in balance.
    Yes exactly. Half of it is the lifestyle. Walking swimming sunshine. We can’t replicate all of that in the uk but we have a lovely walkable country - walk! And chat. Chill out. Eat grilled fish

    It’s not impossible

    Here’s an interesting example of what might be a UPF but isn’t. I eat a fair amount of this. It’s microwave Tilda basmati rice, whole and wild rice mixed. It sounds like it should be full of shit. It is not

    Ingredients:

    “Natural Brown Basmati Rice - Steamed (89%), Natural Wild Rice - Steamed (10%), Rice Bran Oil”

    That’s it. That’s all. It’s good for you. And it’s nutty and delicious



    Funny you should mention that as I've just popped to Waitrose for a couple of packets of Tilda's to do a Thai Massaman curry at home.

    It's a great find.
    And people say it’s expensive. It’s not. That packet of properly healthy and delicious whole grain/wild rice - which will feed two (for carbs) and takes 2 minutes to microwave - costs £1.25
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,767
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    Ice really

    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
    Bread is made by a process. But some breads are much more processed than others. Just check the ingredients - from weird colouring to dodgy corn syrup to endless E numbers

    Basically, avoid as much of that shit as possible - is a pretty good motto
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process
    Flour thrown together with anything much makes bread of sorts. I find this quite amazing.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    I’ve really come to appreciate Greek food. I used to despise it as ultra repetitive, then in autumn 2019 I spent a month there in Pelion. It was glorious

    I got to know the few local tavernas and restaurants and the owners and clients and I had the same food every day. Greek salad, the local fish, chips, ouzo, bread, maybe some moussaka and hummus and taramasalata for variation. Fresh fruit for pudding perhaps an ice cream once every few days

    I swam every day from the rocks by my hotel. For an hour. I slept deeply at night. I drank quite a lot of their now excellent white wine.

    I was mesmerisingly happy. The lack of choice seemed to help. I was also suntanned and fit and extremely serene

    It’s all you need to be happy. Good seafood, sun, a swim, a nice glass of wine, chat, laugh, sleep, repeat
    That sounds amazing.

    Of course, when people say "Mediterranean diet" they are really referring to this, but too often it's reduced to just eating olive oil and a good salad here.

    I can't recall meeting many (any?) Greek or Bulgarian vegetarians or vegans - ever.

    They just eat good food in balance.
    Yes exactly. Half of it is the lifestyle. Walking swimming sunshine. We can’t replicate all of that in the uk but we have a lovely walkable country - walk! And chat. Chill out. Eat grilled fish

    It’s not impossible

    Here’s an interesting example of what might be a UPF but isn’t. I eat a fair amount of this. It’s microwave Tilda basmati rice, whole and wild rice mixed. It sounds like it should be full of shit. It is not

    Ingredients:

    “Natural Brown Basmati Rice - Steamed (89%), Natural Wild Rice - Steamed (10%), Rice Bran Oil”

    That’s it. That’s all. It’s good for you. And it’s nutty and delicious



    Funny you should mention that as I've just popped to Waitrose for a couple of packets of Tilda's to do a Thai Massaman curry at home.

    It's a great find.
    And people say it’s expensive. It’s not. That packet of properly healthy and delicious whole grain/wild rice - which will feed two (for carbs) and takes 2 minutes to microwave - costs £1.25
    Bah, you can by 10 KILOS of Laila basmati rice for £13.50 at Tesco's (with a Clubcard tho).
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,952
    CatMan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anyone done this test ?

    Short Oxford-Liverpool Inventory of Feelings and Experiences (O-LIFE).
    https://www.psytoolkit.org/survey-library/schizotypy-short-olife.html#_the_test_itself

    Quite interesting range of results from those I know who have.

    I got 9 on the Cognitive Disorganisation part and 5 on the Introvertive Anhedonia, but low on the other two. Does that mean I have ADD?
    Unlikely.
    As it's been ADHD for some time now.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    Ice really

    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
    Bread is made by a process. But some breads are much more processed than others. Just check the ingredients - from weird colouring to dodgy corn syrup to endless E numbers

    Basically, avoid as much of that shit as possible - is a pretty good motto
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process
    "...Compared to traditional bread-making processes, CBP uses more yeast, added fats, chemicals, and high-speed mixing to allow the dough to be made with lower-protein wheat, and produces bread in a shorter time. It was developed by Bill Collins, George Elton and Norman Chamberlain of the British Baking Industries Research Association at Chorleywood in 1961. As of 2009, 80% of bread made in the United Kingdom used the process.."
    The deep-pan pizza theory of bread. The problem is not bread, brown, white or sourdough. It is that slices are so much thicker than in the past. Thin-sliced loaves are no more, and some are like doorstops. Sandwiches therefore contain two or more times as much bread as they used to, and that is why they are more fattening.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,554
    CatMan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anyone done this test ?

    Short Oxford-Liverpool Inventory of Feelings and Experiences (O-LIFE).
    https://www.psytoolkit.org/survey-library/schizotypy-short-olife.html#_the_test_itself

    Quite interesting range of results from those I know who have.

    I got 9 on the Cognitive Disorganisation part and 5 on the Introvertive Anhedonia, but low on the other two. Does that mean I have ADD?
    I appear to be abnormally normal. It’s almost disappointing. Scores of 2, 3, 1 and 2 for the four tests.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,474
    CatMan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anyone done this test ?

    Short Oxford-Liverpool Inventory of Feelings and Experiences (O-LIFE).
    https://www.psytoolkit.org/survey-library/schizotypy-short-olife.html#_the_test_itself

    Quite interesting range of results from those I know who have.

    I got 9 on the Cognitive Disorganisation part and 5 on the Introvertive Anhedonia, but low on the other two. Does that mean I have ADD?
    Dunno - but you're neuro-atypical in that measure.
    There's an account of 'schizotypy' here:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypy

    It's an interesting measure .. if only because the questionnaires seem to get more honest responses than typical personality type ones.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,842
    kamski said:

    Just checked there are 8 vegan restaurants within 1km of my front door:
    2 Vietnamese
    1 Kebab/Turkish
    1 Falafel/Turkish
    2 Pizza
    1 Asian fusion
    1 Burger

    Bad luck, you have my sympathy
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,554

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    Ice really

    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
    Bread is made by a process. But some breads are much more processed than others. Just check the ingredients - from weird colouring to dodgy corn syrup to endless E numbers

    Basically, avoid as much of that shit as possible - is a pretty good motto
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process
    "...Compared to traditional bread-making processes, CBP uses more yeast, added fats, chemicals, and high-speed mixing to allow the dough to be made with lower-protein wheat, and produces bread in a shorter time. It was developed by Bill Collins, George Elton and Norman Chamberlain of the British Baking Industries Research Association at Chorleywood in 1961. As of 2009, 80% of bread made in the United Kingdom used the process.."
    The deep-pan pizza theory of bread. The problem is not bread, brown, white or sourdough. It is that slices are so much thicker than in the past. Thin-sliced loaves are no more, and some are like doorstops. Sandwiches therefore contain two or more times as much bread as they used to, and that is why they are more fattening.
    Though conversely the rise of wraps probably offsets this a bit, even if they are a bit denser.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,474
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    Ice really

    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
    Bread is made by a process. But some breads are much more processed than others. Just check the ingredients - from weird colouring to dodgy corn syrup to endless E numbers

    Basically, avoid as much of that shit as possible - is a pretty good motto
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process
    "...Compared to traditional bread-making processes, CBP uses more yeast, added fats, chemicals, and high-speed mixing to allow the dough to be made with lower-protein wheat, and produces bread in a shorter time. It was developed by Bill Collins, George Elton and Norman Chamberlain of the British Baking Industries Research Association at Chorleywood in 1961. As of 2009, 80% of bread made in the United Kingdom used the process.."
    It sounds depressing and shit and unhealthy. But am I being unfair? Serious question
    No, it's utter crap.
    But it allowed the rapid mass production of cheap bread using poor quality wheat. And kickstarted the processed food revolution.
  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 609
    .
    TimS said:

    CatMan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anyone done this test ?

    Short Oxford-Liverpool Inventory of Feelings and Experiences (O-LIFE).
    https://www.psytoolkit.org/survey-library/schizotypy-short-olife.html#_the_test_itself

    Quite interesting range of results from those I know who have.

    I got 9 on the Cognitive Disorganisation part and 5 on the Introvertive Anhedonia, but low on the other two. Does that mean I have ADD?
    I appear to be abnormally normal. It’s almost disappointing. Scores of 2, 3, 1 and 2 for the four tests.
    I got a 4 on impulsive_nonconformity, 2 for cognitive_disorganisation, and 1 for the others.

    I'd be interested in seeing Leon's scores - high marks for both impulsive_nonconformity and unusual_experiences?
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,119

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    I’ve really come to appreciate Greek food. I used to despise it as ultra repetitive, then in autumn 2019 I spent a month there in Pelion. It was glorious

    I got to know the few local tavernas and restaurants and the owners and clients and I had the same food every day. Greek salad, the local fish, chips, ouzo, bread, maybe some moussaka and hummus and taramasalata for variation. Fresh fruit for pudding perhaps an ice cream once every few days

    I swam every day from the rocks by my hotel. For an hour. I slept deeply at night. I drank quite a lot of their now excellent white wine.

    I was mesmerisingly happy. The lack of choice seemed to help. I was also suntanned and fit and extremely serene

    It’s all you need to be happy. Good seafood, sun, a swim, a nice glass of wine, chat, laugh, sleep, repeat
    That sounds amazing.

    Of course, when people say "Mediterranean diet" they are really referring to this, but too often it's reduced to just eating olive oil and a good salad here.

    I can't recall meeting many (any?) Greek or Bulgarian vegetarians or vegans - ever.

    They just eat good food in balance.
    Yes exactly. Half of it is the lifestyle. Walking swimming sunshine. We can’t replicate all of that in the uk but we have a lovely walkable country - walk! And chat. Chill out. Eat grilled fish

    It’s not impossible

    Here’s an interesting example of what might be a UPF but isn’t. I eat a fair amount of this. It’s microwave Tilda basmati rice, whole and wild rice mixed. It sounds like it should be full of shit. It is not

    Ingredients:

    “Natural Brown Basmati Rice - Steamed (89%), Natural Wild Rice - Steamed (10%), Rice Bran Oil”

    That’s it. That’s all. It’s good for you. And it’s nutty and delicious



    Funny you should mention that as I've just popped to Waitrose for a couple of packets of Tilda's to do a Thai Massaman curry at home.

    It's a great find.
    Waitrose.

    The struggle is real.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,474
    AlsoLei said:

    .

    TimS said:

    CatMan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anyone done this test ?

    Short Oxford-Liverpool Inventory of Feelings and Experiences (O-LIFE).
    https://www.psytoolkit.org/survey-library/schizotypy-short-olife.html#_the_test_itself

    Quite interesting range of results from those I know who have.

    I got 9 on the Cognitive Disorganisation part and 5 on the Introvertive Anhedonia, but low on the other two. Does that mean I have ADD?
    I appear to be abnormally normal. It’s almost disappointing. Scores of 2, 3, 1 and 2 for the four tests.
    I got a 4 on impulsive_nonconformity, 2 for cognitive_disorganisation, and 1 for the others.

    I'd be interested in seeing Leon's scores - high marks for both impulsive_nonconformity and unusual_experiences?
    I'm average (3-4) on the first two; higher on the second two.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,842
    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Must be some shit you are eating if it only costs 10 quid a week
  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 609
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    I’ve really come to appreciate Greek food. I used to despise it as ultra repetitive, then in autumn 2019 I spent a month there in Pelion. It was glorious

    I got to know the few local tavernas and restaurants and the owners and clients and I had the same food every day. Greek salad, the local fish, chips, ouzo, bread, maybe some moussaka and hummus and taramasalata for variation. Fresh fruit for pudding perhaps an ice cream once every few days

    I swam every day from the rocks by my hotel. For an hour. I slept deeply at night. I drank quite a lot of their now excellent white wine.

    I was mesmerisingly happy. The lack of choice seemed to help. I was also suntanned and fit and extremely serene

    It’s all you need to be happy. Good seafood, sun, a swim, a nice glass of wine, chat, laugh, sleep, repeat
    That sounds amazing.

    Of course, when people say "Mediterranean diet" they are really referring to this, but too often it's reduced to just eating olive oil and a good salad here.

    I can't recall meeting many (any?) Greek or Bulgarian vegetarians or vegans - ever.

    They just eat good food in balance.
    There is an article in The Times today about the "Atlantic diet", by which they mean northwestern Spain and Portugal, which is the Mediterranean diet, plus red meat, and bread, and wine, and pasta, and dairy...

    the Atlantic diet — can reduce belly fat, high blood pressure and cholesterol levels. The risk of heart disease and diabetes is also lowered. Increasingly, there’s a buzz around the diet among nutritionists and scientists. Other studies have suggested that it may even reduce depression and increase longevity.

    it also features moderate amounts of meat, mainly pork, some starchy-based carbs like bread and pasta, dairy including milk and a little wine.
    There are, of course, many confounding factors in dietary research.
    One is the amount he regular exercise which is normal in a given population - which is possibly the case here ?

    Carbs from beans rather than pasta/bread also seems to have positive effects.
    I suspect that the amount of regular exercise taken is something that varies much more widely than most of us realise. Perhaps not as vital for overall health as fitness, but definitely important when it comes to how much we can eat (and drink!)
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,554
    edited February 17
    AlsoLei said:

    .

    TimS said:

    CatMan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anyone done this test ?

    Short Oxford-Liverpool Inventory of Feelings and Experiences (O-LIFE).
    https://www.psytoolkit.org/survey-library/schizotypy-short-olife.html#_the_test_itself

    Quite interesting range of results from those I know who have.

    I got 9 on the Cognitive Disorganisation part and 5 on the Introvertive Anhedonia, but low on the other two. Does that mean I have ADD?
    I appear to be abnormally normal. It’s almost disappointing. Scores of 2, 3, 1 and 2 for the four tests.
    I got a 4 on impulsive_nonconformity, 2 for cognitive_disorganisation, and 1 for the others.

    I'd be interested in seeing Leon's scores - high marks for both impulsive_nonconformity and unusual_experiences?
    I suspect that cultural and educational factors influence the scores too. Being British I’ve been brought up to avoid hype, so when I saw some of the questions I thought “I don’t do anything that exciting” and “well it’s never quite that intense” (like the question about almost being able to hear your own thoughts). And trying to second guess what they’re looking for brings in some extra bias - eg if you want to feel you are a tortured genius or a natural rebel you might nudge yourself answer questions in a certain way.

    The question on instinctively wanting to do the opposite of what everyone else does is interesting. I expect we all have that, it’s a feature of childhood. But some really have the urge strongly and others don’t.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,119
    edited February 17
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    Ice really

    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
    Bread is made by a process. But some breads are much more processed than others. Just check the ingredients - from weird colouring to dodgy corn syrup to endless E numbers

    Basically, avoid as much of that shit as possible - is a pretty good motto
    Is it the difference between processed and ultra-processed?

    I mean, if you were being purist about the former, anything you do with wheat, cocoa beans and rice is a form of processing- it's adding in all the unnatural stuff, and taking out too much of the natural goodness, that's the problem.
    That’s how I read it. UPF = the weird shit in the list of ingredients where you think, er what?
    UPF is a meaningless term that didn’t exist a few years ago when the hand wringing middle classes were fretting over another meaningless term, junk food.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,993
    AlsoLei said:

    .

    TimS said:

    CatMan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anyone done this test ?

    Short Oxford-Liverpool Inventory of Feelings and Experiences (O-LIFE).
    https://www.psytoolkit.org/survey-library/schizotypy-short-olife.html#_the_test_itself

    Quite interesting range of results from those I know who have.

    I got 9 on the Cognitive Disorganisation part and 5 on the Introvertive Anhedonia, but low on the other two. Does that mean I have ADD?
    I appear to be abnormally normal. It’s almost disappointing. Scores of 2, 3, 1 and 2 for the four tests.
    I got a 4 on impulsive_nonconformity, 2 for cognitive_disorganisation, and 1 for the others.

    I'd be interested in seeing Leon's scores - high marks for both impulsive_nonconformity and unusual_experiences?
    I’ll do it tomorrow! It’s past 1am in PP
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,474
    edited February 17
    TimS said:

    AlsoLei said:

    .

    TimS said:

    CatMan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anyone done this test ?

    Short Oxford-Liverpool Inventory of Feelings and Experiences (O-LIFE).
    https://www.psytoolkit.org/survey-library/schizotypy-short-olife.html#_the_test_itself

    Quite interesting range of results from those I know who have.

    I got 9 on the Cognitive Disorganisation part and 5 on the Introvertive Anhedonia, but low on the other two. Does that mean I have ADD?
    I appear to be abnormally normal. It’s almost disappointing. Scores of 2, 3, 1 and 2 for the four tests.
    I got a 4 on impulsive_nonconformity, 2 for cognitive_disorganisation, and 1 for the others.

    I'd be interested in seeing Leon's scores - high marks for both impulsive_nonconformity and unusual_experiences?
    I suspect that cultural and educational factors influence the scores too. Being British I’ve been brought up to avoid hype, so when I saw some of the questions I thought “I don’t do anything that exciting” and “well it’s never quite that intense” (like the question about almost being able to hear your own thoughts). And trying to second guess what they’re looking for brings in some extra bias - eg if you want to feel you are a tortured genius or a natural rebel you might nudge yourself answer questions in a certain way.

    The question on instinctively wanting to do the opposite of what everyone else does is interesting. I expect we all have that, it’s a feature of childhood. But some really have the urge strongly and others don’t.
    There might be a small effect, but not much, I suspect.

    The first measure, for example - when you close your eyes, many people just see black.
    For me it's a fine grey fuzz on a black background.

    Others (more unusually) will see the effect with their eyes open: an overlay of fine fuzz over everything.

    That's not something culturally determined.
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,765
    Nigelb said:

    CatMan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anyone done this test ?

    Short Oxford-Liverpool Inventory of Feelings and Experiences (O-LIFE).
    https://www.psytoolkit.org/survey-library/schizotypy-short-olife.html#_the_test_itself

    Quite interesting range of results from those I know who have.

    I got 9 on the Cognitive Disorganisation part and 5 on the Introvertive Anhedonia, but low on the other two. Does that mean I have ADD?
    Dunno - but you're neuro-atypical in that measure.
    There's an account of 'schizotypy' here:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypy

    It's an interesting measure .. if only because the questionnaires seem to get more honest responses than typical personality type ones.
    This is probably way too personal, but my Mum has Schizophrenia. Didn't get it until she was in her 40s though, which I understand is unusual. I don't have it, but I'm definitely neuro-atypical.
  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 609
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    Ice really

    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
    Bread is made by a process. But some breads are much more processed than others. Just check the ingredients - from weird colouring to dodgy corn syrup to endless E numbers

    Basically, avoid as much of that shit as possible - is a pretty good motto
    Is it the difference between processed and ultra-processed?

    I mean, if you were being purist about the former, anything you do with wheat, cocoa beans and rice is a form of processing- it's adding in all the unnatural stuff, and taking out too much of the natural goodness, that's the problem.
    That’s how I read it. UPF = the weird shit in the list of ingredients where you think, er what?
    UPF is a meaningless term that didn’t exist a few years ago when the hand wringing middle classes weee fretting over another meaningless term, junk food.
    It certainly has the feel of a class-based moral panic. An easy way for Guardian-readers to make themselves feel good about not being poor.

    Personally, I enjoy cooking and make most meals from scratch - and I'm lucky enough to have the time and resources to do that. Whether I'm any healthier for eating sourdough vs chorleywood bread is a question that I don't think can easily be answered given the number of other potential factors in play.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,474
    CatMan said:

    Nigelb said:

    CatMan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anyone done this test ?

    Short Oxford-Liverpool Inventory of Feelings and Experiences (O-LIFE).
    https://www.psytoolkit.org/survey-library/schizotypy-short-olife.html#_the_test_itself

    Quite interesting range of results from those I know who have.

    I got 9 on the Cognitive Disorganisation part and 5 on the Introvertive Anhedonia, but low on the other two. Does that mean I have ADD?
    Dunno - but you're neuro-atypical in that measure.
    There's an account of 'schizotypy' here:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypy

    It's an interesting measure .. if only because the questionnaires seem to get more honest responses than typical personality type ones.
    This is probably way too personal, but my Mum has Schizophrenia. Didn't get it until she was in her 40s though, which I understand is unusual. I don't have it, but I'm definitely neuro-atypical.
    I have some family history of that, too.
    Which is one of things which led to an interest in the measure.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,614
    edited February 17
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    Don’t you have a Bulgarian wife? What is food like there? My experience of south east European food is not great. I do like the deceptive simplicity of Greek food but that’s somewhat different
    It's very good, for the first three or four days. And then it gets repetitive and samey.

    BUT, salads, mediterranean soups, lamb steaks, peppers, chillis, aubergine, and chicken breasts? Superb. Beer isn't too bad either.

    Just don't try getting a real steak. They don't know what they're doing.
    Sounds like my experience

    Ice really

    darkage said:

    I stopped eating processed food about a month ago. Just switched to eating fresh food, with some unavoidable exceptions. By this I mean eating fresh meat, fish, and fresh vegetables, and just sticking to food that hasn't been processed, ie rice, potato, bread, pasta. fresh and dried fruit, nuts.
    The main improvement, amongst many, is that I no longer get hungry unless I actually need to eat, which I think could address my long term problem of being overweight.
    It also costs much less. I worked out that, if I ever needed to, I could buy a whole weeks worth of food for under £10 from Lidl.
    But even with extravagancies like cashew nuts, king prawns, sourdough bread from the bakery etc, it is cheaper than cooking tasteless packet food.

    Sorry, what do mean processed? Bread and pasta are processed, aren’t they?
    Bread is made by a process. But some breads are much more processed than others. Just check the ingredients - from weird colouring to dodgy corn syrup to endless E numbers

    Basically, avoid as much of that shit as possible - is a pretty good motto
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process
    "...Compared to traditional bread-making processes, CBP uses more yeast, added fats, chemicals, and high-speed mixing to allow the dough to be made with lower-protein wheat, and produces bread in a shorter time. It was developed by Bill Collins, George Elton and Norman Chamberlain of the British Baking Industries Research Association at Chorleywood in 1961. As of 2009, 80% of bread made in the United Kingdom used the process.."
    It sounds depressing and shit and unhealthy. But am I being unfair? Serious question
    I make all my own bread. If I can avoid eating it all in one go it freezes very well, but if left out it goes stale very very quickly. It certainly deteriorates by the next day so I have to freeze it on the day of making it. I assume lots of the stuff they put in shop bread is to stop it doing that. The difference between homemade bread and shop bread is chalk and cheese.

    PS the only exception is fried egg or bacon sandwiches. They need the crappiest white sliced bread to be perfect.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,318
    edited February 17

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT - south-east Asian food is amazing.

    Outside gastropubs (where it can be fantastic) I worry ours is unspeakably awful in most places.

    Most venues seem to serve pizza, burgers, (bad) pasta, jacket potatoes and chips with cake, crisps and fizz on top - with some occasional plant-based permutations - and people really do seem to lap it up.

    If I was being charitable I'd say it's because it's longlasting, cheap to buy, easy to cook, and has great profit margins on it.

    But boy oh boy is it nutritionally limited and bad for you.

    There are at least half a dozen Vietnamese restaurants within a short walk from me on Deptford high street (Deptford has a big Vietnamese population) and inexcusably I’ve not yet been to any of them. I need to change this. My excuse up to now has been a mixture of children not liking chilli (but that has now changed with age), and the restaurants themselves looking a bit uninviting like glorified takeaways and never that full.
    Have you been to Vietnam? A well-made pho is a thing of great beauty and refinement - and extreme healthy - but I wonder if British versions do it right (I’ve never tried)


    Vietnamese food is also superbly varied. They really do dish up the best sandwiches on earth (alongside the Brits when we are on form): banh mi

    https://hiddenlandtravel.com/hoi-banh-mi-the-worlds-best-sandwich/

    Bourdain was not lying. I’ve tried these from this place. Mmmmm
    Since as is your wont you were sourly disobliging about Glasgow last thread, who said ‘From my very first time - it was Glasgow. My favourite city in Scotland. One of my favourite places on earth.’
    Where you may easily eat your last ice-cream.
    "Last Ice Cream in Glasgow" sounds like a "requel" to "Last Tango in Paris".
    Things To Do In Denver When You’re Dead

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