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The challenge facing Sunak – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited February 15 in General
The challenge facing Sunak – politicalbetting.com

?NEW: Rishi Sunak would need to pull off the biggest political comeback in 70 years to win the next election Ten months out, no party has overturned a polling deficit of 7 points or more; Sunak is 20pts behind.With @Steven_Swinford @oliver_wright https://t.co/Xl27Nn3ggc pic.twitter.com/tr8sX9YRYJ

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,381
    It's hopeless. We all know it is.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,082
    Top 3 like CON
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,381

    He's hopeless. We all know he is.

    Yep, boring beats hopeless every time.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243
    FPT
    Nigelb said:

    Ofsted meets the Posf Office.

    Ofsted inspectors ‘make up evidence’ about a school’s performance when IT fails
    Inspector tells Observer investigation that top officials are aware that computer system crashes can wipe out data
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/feb/03/ofsted-inspectors-make-up-evidence-about-a-schools-performance-when-it-fails


    Imagine their judgment if a school were to do this.

    And of course senior management lied about it.

    I wonder if that includes the multiple safeguarding concerns about the behaviour of their inspectors that get raised but mysteriously never actioned?
  • ydoethur said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brianna Ghey was in part targeted because of being trans. There is no point denying this given that this is the evidence which has come out at trial and which has been mentioned in the judge's summing up. We can only deal with the vulnerability of children and those who hate them for particular characteristics if we are honest about the reasons why awful crimes happen.

    Being trans made Brianna vulnerable. I do think there are serious questions to be asked about the safeguarding here of a vulnerable child. Those questions need addressing to the school. Those safeguarding questions also need to be asked in relation to the two murderers. The role of porn and violent videos also arises.

    See also my comment fpt here - https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4675284#Comment_4675284.

    No it wasn't. It was the prejudice that people like you have been peddling week in and week out against unfortunate vulnerable people like Briana. She seems to me to have been considerably more balanced than those who have seen them as freaks and opportunists and encouraged others to see them the same
    Yes, of course, this awful murder is @cyclefree’s fault for giving her measured opinions on this issue. Do you actually wake up in the morning and think “how can I be even more preposterous today”?

    Somehow, you manage it
    On the safeguarding - it appears that one of the teens was moved from another school after a nasty attack on another child.

    In the new school, they weren’t told about this. Just that she had “issues”.

    So they put her in group of those, like Briana, who were vulnerable.

    Everyone followed The Process. They put a shark in the fish tank.
    One of the grave weaknesses of our education system is we have no proper system for dealing with children who have been expelled for behaviour like this. This means it's far too difficult to get rid of them and when you do they're normally shunted somewhere else without proper processes and therefore cause more problems.

    It's partly due to cutbacks but mostly due to stupidity, viz. the idea that somehow every child should be in a mainstream school and kept there come hell or high water no matter what is going on.

    Not good for the troublemakers and not good for those around them.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    A return to the days of "special schools" for anyone who is different isn't needed, I do think its a good thing that those who are different and have special education needs or disabilities are, wherever possible, in mainstream schools.

    But awful behaviour is not a special need, its awful behaviour. Schools should be free to expel anyone who won't follow behaviour policy and is disruptive to the safety, wellbeing or simply the education of others.
    Your suggestions would lead to a huge number of expulsions. What would happen to all the expelled kids, though? Where would they go?
    It would only lead to expulsions for those who are a threat or danger to others, or are disrupting the education of others. They should be expelled.

    That's like saying we shouldn't arrest criminals because it would lead to a large number of arrests.

    Where should they go? Have a more secure education system for them where they can be educated without causing harm to others.
  • Can we accept yet that on the current polling, SKS is looking very much like a Tony Blair?
  • Can we accept yet that on the current polling, SKS is looking very much like a Tony Blair?

    Someone who arrives popular and with a massive majority and a good economic situation, trashes it all, harms the young most particularly, takes us to war on false pretences and ends his tenure with the economy in ruins?

    I rather hope not. Though it seems that line falls at the first hurdle.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    Maybe my pessimistic taffy friend is right

    Poor from Wales. They look decidedly weak
  • There are different ways of calculating these things but I put 4.5% as the biggest lead overhauled. Which is I suppose even worse news for the Govt. However, there have been big enough movements in opinion/polling errors to potentially give them a chance. It is just that those past changes did not alter the actual result. For this to turn around we require the current Con party to run the most successful ten months in British political history.

    Seem unlikely.
  • Can we accept yet that on the current polling, SKS is looking very much like a Tony Blair?

    Christ no.

    Just look at the respective Ipsos leader ratings at this point in the electoral cycle.

    I would have hoped you would have learned from your Corbyn experience.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,101

    ydoethur said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brianna Ghey was in part targeted because of being trans. There is no point denying this given that this is the evidence which has come out at trial and which has been mentioned in the judge's summing up. We can only deal with the vulnerability of children and those who hate them for particular characteristics if we are honest about the reasons why awful crimes happen.

    Being trans made Brianna vulnerable. I do think there are serious questions to be asked about the safeguarding here of a vulnerable child. Those questions need addressing to the school. Those safeguarding questions also need to be asked in relation to the two murderers. The role of porn and violent videos also arises.

    See also my comment fpt here - https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4675284#Comment_4675284.

    No it wasn't. It was the prejudice that people like you have been peddling week in and week out against unfortunate vulnerable people like Briana. She seems to me to have been considerably more balanced than those who have seen them as freaks and opportunists and encouraged others to see them the same
    Yes, of course, this awful murder is @cyclefree’s fault for giving her measured opinions on this issue. Do you actually wake up in the morning and think “how can I be even more preposterous today”?

    Somehow, you manage it
    On the safeguarding - it appears that one of the teens was moved from another school after a nasty attack on another child.

    In the new school, they weren’t told about this. Just that she had “issues”.

    So they put her in group of those, like Briana, who were vulnerable.

    Everyone followed The Process. They put a shark in the fish tank.
    One of the grave weaknesses of our education system is we have no proper system for dealing with children who have been expelled for behaviour like this. This means it's far too difficult to get rid of them and when you do they're normally shunted somewhere else without proper processes and therefore cause more problems.

    It's partly due to cutbacks but mostly due to stupidity, viz. the idea that somehow every child should be in a mainstream school and kept there come hell or high water no matter what is going on.

    Not good for the troublemakers and not good for those around them.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    A return to the days of "special schools" for anyone who is different isn't needed, I do think its a good thing that those who are different and have special education needs or disabilities are, wherever possible, in mainstream schools.

    But awful behaviour is not a special need, its awful behaviour. Schools should be free to expel anyone who won't follow behaviour policy and is disruptive to the safety, wellbeing or simply the education of others.
    Your suggestions would lead to a huge number of expulsions. What would happen to all the expelled kids, though? Where would they go?
    It would only lead to expulsions for those who are a threat or danger to others, or are disrupting the education of others. They should be expelled.

    That's like saying we shouldn't arrest criminals because it would lead to a large number of arrests.

    Where should they go? Have a more secure education system for them where they can be educated without causing harm to others.
    There is one. Such institutions are called Pupil Referral Units and they do an astonishingly difficult job surprisingly well.
    The fact that there are awful people right at one end ofthe bellcurve and amongst a population of 70million shitty things sometimes happen shouldn't be seen as a reason to despair of the system. Of course, any such institution will always be able to do more with more resources, but not everybad news story should mean we need to change the system.

  • On topic, I am struggling to update my analogies for just how fucked the Tories are.

    The stepmom just doesn't cover it.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,316
    FPT: FF43 - Perhaps I was not clear enough in my original post. Here's list for you, which illustrates my point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_accidents_and_incidents_involving_commercial_aircraft_in_the_United_States

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brianna Ghey was in part targeted because of being trans. There is no point denying this given that this is the evidence which has come out at trial and which has been mentioned in the judge's summing up. We can only deal with the vulnerability of children and those who hate them for particular characteristics if we are honest about the reasons why awful crimes happen.

    Being trans made Brianna vulnerable. I do think there are serious questions to be asked about the safeguarding here of a vulnerable child. Those questions need addressing to the school. Those safeguarding questions also need to be asked in relation to the two murderers. The role of porn and violent videos also arises.

    See also my comment fpt here - https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4675284#Comment_4675284.

    No it wasn't. It was the prejudice that people like you have been peddling week in and week out against unfortunate vulnerable people like Briana. She seems to me to have been considerably more balanced than those who have seen them as freaks and opportunists and encouraged others to see them the same
    Yes, of course, this awful murder is @cyclefree’s fault for giving her measured opinions on this issue. Do you actually wake up in the morning and think “how can I be even more preposterous today”?

    Somehow, you manage it
    On the safeguarding - it appears that one of the teens was moved from another school after a nasty attack on another child.

    In the new school, they weren’t told about this. Just that she had “issues”.

    So they put her in group of those, like Briana, who were vulnerable.

    Everyone followed The Process. They put a shark in the fish tank.
    One of the grave weaknesses of our education system is we have no proper system for dealing with children who have been expelled for behaviour like this. This means it's far too difficult to get rid of them and when you do they're normally shunted somewhere else without proper processes and therefore cause more problems.

    It's partly due to cutbacks but mostly due to stupidity, viz. the idea that somehow every child should be in a mainstream school and kept there come hell or high water no matter what is going on.

    Not good for the troublemakers and not good for those around them.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    A return to the days of "special schools" for anyone who is different isn't needed, I do think its a good thing that those who are different and have special education needs or disabilities are, wherever possible, in mainstream schools.

    But awful behaviour is not a special need, its awful behaviour. Schools should be free to expel anyone who won't follow behaviour policy and is disruptive to the safety, wellbeing or simply the education of others.
    Your suggestions would lead to a huge number of expulsions. What would happen to all the expelled kids, though? Where would they go?
    It would only lead to expulsions for those who are a threat or danger to others, or are disrupting the education of others. They should be expelled.

    That's like saying we shouldn't arrest criminals because it would lead to a large number of arrests.

    Where should they go? Have a more secure education system for them where they can be educated without causing harm to others.
    There is one. Such institutions are called Pupil Referral Units and they do an astonishingly difficult job surprisingly well.
    The fact that there are awful people right at one end ofthe bellcurve and amongst a population of 70million shitty things sometimes happen shouldn't be seen as a reason to despair of the system. Of course, any such institution will always be able to do more with more resources, but not everybad news story should mean we need to change the system.

    But there are not nearly enough of them. Believe it or not there are actual waiting lists - very long ones - to get very large numbers of highly disruptive children into them where they can be taught and managed properly.

    Meanwhile, the education of other children is hopelessly disrupted. This should be unacceptable but the DfE don't understand or as far as can be judged care about the problem.

    By all accounts one person who *does* is Martyn Oliver, who was famous for expelling large numbers of disruptive children from his schools. But of course, even as chief of OFSTED he has no real power to change the system.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,082

    On topic, I am struggling to update my analogies for just how fucked the Tories are.

    The stepmom just doesn't cover it.

    More chance of Watford getting promoted than CON winning the election!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 60,485
    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    Ofsted meets the Posf Office.

    Ofsted inspectors ‘make up evidence’ about a school’s performance when IT fails
    Inspector tells Observer investigation that top officials are aware that computer system crashes can wipe out data
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/feb/03/ofsted-inspectors-make-up-evidence-about-a-schools-performance-when-it-fails


    Imagine their judgment if a school were to do this.

    And of course senior management lied about it.

    I wonder if that includes the multiple safeguarding concerns about the behaviour of their inspectors that get raised but mysteriously never actioned?
    The denials and bromides from Ofsted, each time some problem is reported, are spookily reminiscent of those from the PO.
  • On topic, I am struggling to update my analogies for just how fucked the Tories are.

    The stepmom just doesn't cover it.

    Covering it isn't her job to be fair.

    How about "Russian conscript" as a new analogy?
  • Can we accept yet that on the current polling, SKS is looking very much like a Tony Blair?

    Christ no.

    Just look at the respective Ipsos leader ratings at this point in the electoral cycle.

    I would have hoped you would have learned from your Corbyn experience.
    I have much less affinity for SKS than I ever did for Jeremy Corbyn. The poll you posted in the opener makes the point that SKS is doing identically to Tony Blair at this point, hence my "looking very much like a Tony Blair".

    Fair point on the approval ratings but that wasn't what I was referring to.

    Don't make a post if you don't want people to respond to it with questions.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    edited February 3

    On topic, I am struggling to update my analogies for just how fucked the Tories are.

    The stepmom just doesn't cover it.

    The Tories are a duck. With its head trapped in a drawer, in an opium den at number 7, street 310, Phnom Penh, in about 1936

    And there’s a whole load of laughing foreign legionnaires queuing to have a go

    That’s the Tories; I believe that nicely captures their plight
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,356

    ydoethur said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brianna Ghey was in part targeted because of being trans. There is no point denying this given that this is the evidence which has come out at trial and which has been mentioned in the judge's summing up. We can only deal with the vulnerability of children and those who hate them for particular characteristics if we are honest about the reasons why awful crimes happen.

    Being trans made Brianna vulnerable. I do think there are serious questions to be asked about the safeguarding here of a vulnerable child. Those questions need addressing to the school. Those safeguarding questions also need to be asked in relation to the two murderers. The role of porn and violent videos also arises.

    See also my comment fpt here - https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4675284#Comment_4675284.

    No it wasn't. It was the prejudice that people like you have been peddling week in and week out against unfortunate vulnerable people like Briana. She seems to me to have been considerably more balanced than those who have seen them as freaks and opportunists and encouraged others to see them the same
    Yes, of course, this awful murder is @cyclefree’s fault for giving her measured opinions on this issue. Do you actually wake up in the morning and think “how can I be even more preposterous today”?

    Somehow, you manage it
    On the safeguarding - it appears that one of the teens was moved from another school after a nasty attack on another child.

    In the new school, they weren’t told about this. Just that she had “issues”.

    So they put her in group of those, like Briana, who were vulnerable.

    Everyone followed The Process. They put a shark in the fish tank.
    One of the grave weaknesses of our education system is we have no proper system for dealing with children who have been expelled for behaviour like this. This means it's far too difficult to get rid of them and when you do they're normally shunted somewhere else without proper processes and therefore cause more problems.

    It's partly due to cutbacks but mostly due to stupidity, viz. the idea that somehow every child should be in a mainstream school and kept there come hell or high water no matter what is going on.

    Not good for the troublemakers and not good for those around them.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    A return to the days of "special schools" for anyone who is different isn't needed, I do think its a good thing that those who are different and have special education needs or disabilities are, wherever possible, in mainstream schools.

    But awful behaviour is not a special need, its awful behaviour. Schools should be free to expel anyone who won't follow behaviour policy and is disruptive to the safety, wellbeing or simply the education of others.
    Your suggestions would lead to a huge number of expulsions. What would happen to all the expelled kids, though? Where would they go?
    It would only lead to expulsions for those who are a threat or danger to others, or are disrupting the education of others. They should be expelled.

    That's like saying we shouldn't arrest criminals because it would lead to a large number of arrests.

    Where should they go? Have a more secure education system for them where they can be educated without causing harm to others.
    1, "Disrupting the education of others" is a huge catch-all that would lead to mass expulsions.
    2. Your analogy with criminals isn't relevant, as we don't imprison kids.
    3. As others have mentioned, pupil referral units (PRUs) are struggling to cope with the limited business they currently have, without having to pick up thousands more expulsions.
    4. Is it really that good an idea to put all the badly-behaved kids in the same place(s) rather than spreading them out?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 60,485
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brianna Ghey was in part targeted because of being trans. There is no point denying this given that this is the evidence which has come out at trial and which has been mentioned in the judge's summing up. We can only deal with the vulnerability of children and those who hate them for particular characteristics if we are honest about the reasons why awful crimes happen.

    Being trans made Brianna vulnerable. I do think there are serious questions to be asked about the safeguarding here of a vulnerable child. Those questions need addressing to the school. Those safeguarding questions also need to be asked in relation to the two murderers. The role of porn and violent videos also arises.

    See also my comment fpt here - https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4675284#Comment_4675284.

    No it wasn't. It was the prejudice that people like you have been peddling week in and week out against unfortunate vulnerable people like Briana. She seems to me to have been considerably more balanced than those who have seen them as freaks and opportunists and encouraged others to see them the same
    Yes, of course, this awful murder is @cyclefree’s fault for giving her measured opinions on this issue. Do you actually wake up in the morning and think “how can I be even more preposterous today”?

    Somehow, you manage it
    On the safeguarding - it appears that one of the teens was moved from another school after a nasty attack on another child.

    In the new school, they weren’t told about this. Just that she had “issues”.

    So they put her in group of those, like Briana, who were vulnerable.

    Everyone followed The Process. They put a shark in the fish tank.
    One of the grave weaknesses of our education system is we have no proper system for dealing with children who have been expelled for behaviour like this. This means it's far too difficult to get rid of them and when you do they're normally shunted somewhere else without proper processes and therefore cause more problems.

    It's partly due to cutbacks but mostly due to stupidity, viz. the idea that somehow every child should be in a mainstream school and kept there come hell or high water no matter what is going on.

    Not good for the troublemakers and not good for those around them.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    A return to the days of "special schools" for anyone who is different isn't needed, I do think its a good thing that those who are different and have special education needs or disabilities are, wherever possible, in mainstream schools.

    But awful behaviour is not a special need, its awful behaviour. Schools should be free to expel anyone who won't follow behaviour policy and is disruptive to the safety, wellbeing or simply the education of others.
    Your suggestions would lead to a huge number of expulsions. What would happen to all the expelled kids, though? Where would they go?
    It would only lead to expulsions for those who are a threat or danger to others, or are disrupting the education of others. They should be expelled.

    That's like saying we shouldn't arrest criminals because it would lead to a large number of arrests.

    Where should they go? Have a more secure education system for them where they can be educated without causing harm to others.
    There is one. Such institutions are called Pupil Referral Units and they do an astonishingly difficult job surprisingly well.
    The fact that there are awful people right at one end ofthe bellcurve and amongst a population of 70million shitty things sometimes happen shouldn't be seen as a reason to despair of the system. Of course, any such institution will always be able to do more with more resources, but not everybad news story should mean we need to change the system.

    They are insufficiently resourced, though.
    At my wife's last school they regularly had to keep pupils as there were no spaces at the PRU.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,616
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brianna Ghey was in part targeted because of being trans. There is no point denying this given that this is the evidence which has come out at trial and which has been mentioned in the judge's summing up. We can only deal with the vulnerability of children and those who hate them for particular characteristics if we are honest about the reasons why awful crimes happen.

    Being trans made Brianna vulnerable. I do think there are serious questions to be asked about the safeguarding here of a vulnerable child. Those questions need addressing to the school. Those safeguarding questions also need to be asked in relation to the two murderers. The role of porn and violent videos also arises.

    See also my comment fpt here - https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4675284#Comment_4675284.

    No it wasn't. It was the prejudice that people like you have been peddling week in and week out against unfortunate vulnerable people like Briana. She seems to me to have been considerably more balanced than those who have seen them as freaks and opportunists and encouraged others to see them the same
    Yes, of course, this awful murder is @cyclefree’s fault for giving her measured opinions on this issue. Do you actually wake up in the morning and think “how can I be even more preposterous today”?

    Somehow, you manage it
    On the safeguarding - it appears that one of the teens was moved from another school after a nasty attack on another child.

    In the new school, they weren’t told about this. Just that she had “issues”.

    So they put her in group of those, like Briana, who were vulnerable.

    Everyone followed The Process. They put a shark in the fish tank.
    One of the grave weaknesses of our education system is we have no proper system for dealing with children who have been expelled for behaviour like this. This means it's far too difficult to get rid of them and when you do they're normally shunted somewhere else without proper processes and therefore cause more problems.

    It's partly due to cutbacks but mostly due to stupidity, viz. the idea that somehow every child should be in a mainstream school and kept there come hell or high water no matter what is going on.

    Not good for the troublemakers and not good for those around them.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    A return to the days of "special schools" for anyone who is different isn't needed, I do think its a good thing that those who are different and have special education needs or disabilities are, wherever possible, in mainstream schools.

    But awful behaviour is not a special need, its awful behaviour. Schools should be free to expel anyone who won't follow behaviour policy and is disruptive to the safety, wellbeing or simply the education of others.
    Your suggestions would lead to a huge number of expulsions. What would happen to all the expelled kids, though? Where would they go?
    It would only lead to expulsions for those who are a threat or danger to others, or are disrupting the education of others. They should be expelled.

    That's like saying we shouldn't arrest criminals because it would lead to a large number of arrests.

    Where should they go? Have a more secure education system for them where they can be educated without causing harm to others.
    There is one. Such institutions are called Pupil Referral Units and they do an astonishingly difficult job surprisingly well.
    The fact that there are awful people right at one end ofthe bellcurve and amongst a population of 70million shitty things sometimes happen shouldn't be seen as a reason to despair of the system. Of course, any such institution will always be able to do more with more resources, but not everybad news story should mean we need to change the system.

    Also known as Short Stay Schools - they are for those permanently excluded from the main school system. In some areas they are a direct provision of the local authority - in others they are like academies so run by independent providers but often in loca authority accommodation.

    I had some dealings not long ago in trying to find accommodation for one school which dealt specifically with young people suffering with mental health challenges including suicidal tendencies. It's not a world with which I'm familiar but those involved deserve all the respect and support (and dare I say it, remuneration) going.

    There will be those who would argue teachers and assistants in those schools do a more valuable job and deserve better pay than many if not most.
  • Leon said:

    On topic, I am struggling to update my analogies for just how fucked the Tories are.

    The stepmom just doesn't cover it.

    The Tories are a duck. With its head trapped in a drawer, in an opium den at number 7, street 310, Phnom Penh, in about 1936

    And there’s a whole load of laughing foreign legionnaires queuing to have a go

    That’s the Tories; I believe that nicely captures their plight
    Wait, the Tories are an urban myth.
  • Can we accept yet that on the current polling, SKS is looking very much like a Tony Blair?

    Someone who arrives popular and with a massive majority and a good economic situation, trashes it all, harms the young most particularly, takes us to war on false pretences and ends his tenure with the economy in ruins?

    I rather hope not. Though it seems that line falls at the first hurdle.
    How are you planning to vote?

    And how's the baby?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,382

    FPT: FF43 - Perhaps I was not clear enough in my original post. Here's list for you, which illustrates my point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_accidents_and_incidents_involving_commercial_aircraft_in_the_United_States

    And I wasn't clear enough on my different point. Safety comes down to trust and there has never been so little reason to trust Boeing as now. The disappearing door is only one of a litany of quality issues with the 737 due to Boeing not screwing the plane together properly. If the panel had fallen out at cruise altitude the plane and passengers would probably have been lost. Without question the 737 would have been grounded. Boeing and the rest of us were lucky it didn't. And we have no idea what the next thing is going to be.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 60,485

    FPT: FF43 - Perhaps I was not clear enough in my original post. Here's list for you, which illustrates my point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_accidents_and_incidents_involving_commercial_aircraft_in_the_United_States

    That airline travel is far safer than it used to be doesn't change the fact that Boeing's quality control is far worse than it used to be.

    We should expect things to improve.
  • Can we accept yet that on the current polling, SKS is looking very much like a Tony Blair?

    Christ no.

    Just look at the respective Ipsos leader ratings at this point in the electoral cycle.

    I would have hoped you would have learned from your Corbyn experience.
    I have much less affinity for SKS than I ever did for Jeremy Corbyn. The poll you posted in the opener makes the point that SKS is doing identically to Tony Blair at this point, hence my "looking very much like a Tony Blair".

    Fair point on the approval ratings but that wasn't what I was referring to.

    Don't make a post if you don't want people to respond to it with questions.
    It was Mike's post.

    You said 'SKS is looking very much like a Tony Blair', a better comparator would have been Labour in 2024 are doing as well as Labour in 1996.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243
    edited February 3
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    Ofsted meets the Posf Office.

    Ofsted inspectors ‘make up evidence’ about a school’s performance when IT fails
    Inspector tells Observer investigation that top officials are aware that computer system crashes can wipe out data
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/feb/03/ofsted-inspectors-make-up-evidence-about-a-schools-performance-when-it-fails


    Imagine their judgment if a school were to do this.

    And of course senior management lied about it.

    I wonder if that includes the multiple safeguarding concerns about the behaviour of their inspectors that get raised but mysteriously never actioned?
    The denials and bromides from Ofsted, each time some problem is reported, are spookily reminiscent of those from the PO.
    I do feel a bit sorry for Oliver. He has been lumbered with an absolute shitshow. An inspectorate with an inspection framework that militates against a good education. Senior staff who include weak and not very bright tools of the DfE (hello, Mr Gribbell). Computer systems that don't work. An organisation in breach of its statutory duties on safeguarding training. A case where they have been publicly declared to have committed perjury. Non-existent quality control procedures. The people they are meant to be inspecting so mistrustful of them that sometimes they have been illegally refused permission to inspect.

    Ironically, he's been one of the most vocal critics of OFSTED over many of these issues for many years.

    Whether he can turn it round - or, alternatively, come up with a more credible alternative, which realistically is probably the best option now - is going to be quite a test for him.

    I do hope for everyone's sake, including his own, that he's up to it, but I cannot see any shame if he falls short.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 60,485
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    Ofsted meets the Posf Office.

    Ofsted inspectors ‘make up evidence’ about a school’s performance when IT fails
    Inspector tells Observer investigation that top officials are aware that computer system crashes can wipe out data
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/feb/03/ofsted-inspectors-make-up-evidence-about-a-schools-performance-when-it-fails


    Imagine their judgment if a school were to do this.

    And of course senior management lied about it.

    I wonder if that includes the multiple safeguarding concerns about the behaviour of their inspectors that get raised but mysteriously never actioned?
    The denials and bromides from Ofsted, each time some problem is reported, are spookily reminiscent of those from the PO.
    I do feel a bit sorry for Oliver. He has been lumbered with an absolute shitshow. An inspectorate with an inspection framework that militates against a good education. Senior staff who include weak and not very bright tools of the DfE (hello, Mr Gribbell). Computer systems that don't work. An organisation in breach of its statutory duties on safeguarding training. A case where they have been publicly declared to have committed perjury. Non-existent quality control procedures. The people they are meant to be inspecting so mistrustful of them that sometimes they have been illegally refused permission to inspect.

    Whether he can turn it round - or, alternatively, come up with a more credible alternative, which realistically is probably the best option now - is going to be quite a test for him.

    I do hope for everyone's sake, including his own, that he's up to it, but I cannot see any shame if he falls short.
    It is a genuinely hopeful sign that he's not entirely in denial about the organisation's problems.
    Good luck to him.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,399
    edited February 3

    On topic, I am struggling to update my analogies for just how fucked the Tories are.

    The stepmom just doesn't cover it.

    IANAL, but it seems that an accurate visual representation might fall foul of the extreme pornography legislation...

    (or fowl even)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243
    edited February 3

    ydoethur said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brianna Ghey was in part targeted because of being trans. There is no point denying this given that this is the evidence which has come out at trial and which has been mentioned in the judge's summing up. We can only deal with the vulnerability of children and those who hate them for particular characteristics if we are honest about the reasons why awful crimes happen.

    Being trans made Brianna vulnerable. I do think there are serious questions to be asked about the safeguarding here of a vulnerable child. Those questions need addressing to the school. Those safeguarding questions also need to be asked in relation to the two murderers. The role of porn and violent videos also arises.

    See also my comment fpt here - https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4675284#Comment_4675284.

    No it wasn't. It was the prejudice that people like you have been peddling week in and week out against unfortunate vulnerable people like Briana. She seems to me to have been considerably more balanced than those who have seen them as freaks and opportunists and encouraged others to see them the same
    Yes, of course, this awful murder is @cyclefree’s fault for giving her measured opinions on this issue. Do you actually wake up in the morning and think “how can I be even more preposterous today”?

    Somehow, you manage it
    On the safeguarding - it appears that one of the teens was moved from another school after a nasty attack on another child.

    In the new school, they weren’t told about this. Just that she had “issues”.

    So they put her in group of those, like Briana, who were vulnerable.

    Everyone followed The Process. They put a shark in the fish tank.
    One of the grave weaknesses of our education system is we have no proper system for dealing with children who have been expelled for behaviour like this. This means it's far too difficult to get rid of them and when you do they're normally shunted somewhere else without proper processes and therefore cause more problems.

    It's partly due to cutbacks but mostly due to stupidity, viz. the idea that somehow every child should be in a mainstream school and kept there come hell or high water no matter what is going on.

    Not good for the troublemakers and not good for those around them.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    A return to the days of "special schools" for anyone who is different isn't needed, I do think its a good thing that those who are different and have special education needs or disabilities are, wherever possible, in mainstream schools.

    But awful behaviour is not a special need, its awful behaviour. Schools should be free to expel anyone who won't follow behaviour policy and is disruptive to the safety, wellbeing or simply the education of others.
    Your suggestions would lead to a huge number of expulsions. What would happen to all the expelled kids, though? Where would they go?
    It would only lead to expulsions for those who are a threat or danger to others, or are disrupting the education of others. They should be expelled.

    That's like saying we shouldn't arrest criminals because it would lead to a large number of arrests.

    Where should they go? Have a more secure education system for them where they can be educated without causing harm to others.
    1, "Disrupting the education of others" is a huge catch-all that would lead to mass expulsions.
    2. Your analogy with criminals isn't relevant, as we don't imprison kids.
    3. As others have mentioned, pupil referral units (PRUs) are struggling to cope with the limited business they currently have, without having to pick up thousands more expulsions.
    4. Is it really that good an idea to put all the badly-behaved kids in the same place(s) rather than spreading them out?
    It is a bloody stupid idea to spread them through the education system so they disrupt *everyone's* education. Or, where there is no proper system to restrain them on the many occasions they become violent.

    That is not controversial.

    It is also an idea of the DfE, who are chiefly known for drinking and arithmetical errors. Which doesn't inspire confidence anyway.

    We might ask ourselves other questions, perhaps. Why are there so many of them? Why is it schools always have to pick up the mess for failings that are nothing to do with them? What should we be doing to properly sort this out?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 13,744
    Leon said:

    On topic, I am struggling to update my analogies for just how fucked the Tories are.

    The stepmom just doesn't cover it.

    The Tories are a duck. With its head trapped in a drawer, in an opium den at number 7, street 310, Phnom Penh, in about 1936

    And there’s a whole load of laughing foreign legionnaires queuing to have a go

    That’s the Tories; I believe that nicely captures their plight
    Curious thing is that I don't think there's going to be much national pleasure derived from Sacking Sunak, unlike in the duck scenario.

    There was when Blair replaced Major, and (somewhat less) when Cameron replaced Brown. Some were very pleased about the 2016 vote, and some when Johnson went.

    But I'm not getting that vibe. Sunak's got to go, they've all got to go, and come back when they have thought about what they've done and promised to be better in the future. But it's a tedious necessity.

    I imagine getting treatment from the clap clinic is much the same. Perhaps someone who had led a more colourful life can confirm.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 60,485
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brianna Ghey was in part targeted because of being trans. There is no point denying this given that this is the evidence which has come out at trial and which has been mentioned in the judge's summing up. We can only deal with the vulnerability of children and those who hate them for particular characteristics if we are honest about the reasons why awful crimes happen.

    Being trans made Brianna vulnerable. I do think there are serious questions to be asked about the safeguarding here of a vulnerable child. Those questions need addressing to the school. Those safeguarding questions also need to be asked in relation to the two murderers. The role of porn and violent videos also arises.

    See also my comment fpt here - https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4675284#Comment_4675284.

    No it wasn't. It was the prejudice that people like you have been peddling week in and week out against unfortunate vulnerable people like Briana. She seems to me to have been considerably more balanced than those who have seen them as freaks and opportunists and encouraged others to see them the same
    Yes, of course, this awful murder is @cyclefree’s fault for giving her measured opinions on this issue. Do you actually wake up in the morning and think “how can I be even more preposterous today”?

    Somehow, you manage it
    On the safeguarding - it appears that one of the teens was moved from another school after a nasty attack on another child.

    In the new school, they weren’t told about this. Just that she had “issues”.

    So they put her in group of those, like Briana, who were vulnerable.

    Everyone followed The Process. They put a shark in the fish tank.
    One of the grave weaknesses of our education system is we have no proper system for dealing with children who have been expelled for behaviour like this. This means it's far too difficult to get rid of them and when you do they're normally shunted somewhere else without proper processes and therefore cause more problems.

    It's partly due to cutbacks but mostly due to stupidity, viz. the idea that somehow every child should be in a mainstream school and kept there come hell or high water no matter what is going on.

    Not good for the troublemakers and not good for those around them.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    A return to the days of "special schools" for anyone who is different isn't needed, I do think its a good thing that those who are different and have special education needs or disabilities are, wherever possible, in mainstream schools.

    But awful behaviour is not a special need, its awful behaviour. Schools should be free to expel anyone who won't follow behaviour policy and is disruptive to the safety, wellbeing or simply the education of others.
    Your suggestions would lead to a huge number of expulsions. What would happen to all the expelled kids, though? Where would they go?
    It would only lead to expulsions for those who are a threat or danger to others, or are disrupting the education of others. They should be expelled.

    That's like saying we shouldn't arrest criminals because it would lead to a large number of arrests.

    Where should they go? Have a more secure education system for them where they can be educated without causing harm to others.
    There is one. Such institutions are called Pupil Referral Units and they do an astonishingly difficult job surprisingly well.
    The fact that there are awful people right at one end ofthe bellcurve and amongst a population of 70million shitty things sometimes happen shouldn't be seen as a reason to despair of the system. Of course, any such institution will always be able to do more with more resources, but not everybad news story should mean we need to change the system.

    They are insufficiently resourced, though.
    At my wife's last school they regularly had to keep pupils as there were no spaces at the PRU.
    At one stage they got funding to set up a kind of internal PRU, but it was shortly thereafter cut.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    Wales could take an absolute beating here
  • ydoethur said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brianna Ghey was in part targeted because of being trans. There is no point denying this given that this is the evidence which has come out at trial and which has been mentioned in the judge's summing up. We can only deal with the vulnerability of children and those who hate them for particular characteristics if we are honest about the reasons why awful crimes happen.

    Being trans made Brianna vulnerable. I do think there are serious questions to be asked about the safeguarding here of a vulnerable child. Those questions need addressing to the school. Those safeguarding questions also need to be asked in relation to the two murderers. The role of porn and violent videos also arises.

    See also my comment fpt here - https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4675284#Comment_4675284.

    No it wasn't. It was the prejudice that people like you have been peddling week in and week out against unfortunate vulnerable people like Briana. She seems to me to have been considerably more balanced than those who have seen them as freaks and opportunists and encouraged others to see them the same
    Yes, of course, this awful murder is @cyclefree’s fault for giving her measured opinions on this issue. Do you actually wake up in the morning and think “how can I be even more preposterous today”?

    Somehow, you manage it
    On the safeguarding - it appears that one of the teens was moved from another school after a nasty attack on another child.

    In the new school, they weren’t told about this. Just that she had “issues”.

    So they put her in group of those, like Briana, who were vulnerable.

    Everyone followed The Process. They put a shark in the fish tank.
    One of the grave weaknesses of our education system is we have no proper system for dealing with children who have been expelled for behaviour like this. This means it's far too difficult to get rid of them and when you do they're normally shunted somewhere else without proper processes and therefore cause more problems.

    It's partly due to cutbacks but mostly due to stupidity, viz. the idea that somehow every child should be in a mainstream school and kept there come hell or high water no matter what is going on.

    Not good for the troublemakers and not good for those around them.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    A return to the days of "special schools" for anyone who is different isn't needed, I do think its a good thing that those who are different and have special education needs or disabilities are, wherever possible, in mainstream schools.

    But awful behaviour is not a special need, its awful behaviour. Schools should be free to expel anyone who won't follow behaviour policy and is disruptive to the safety, wellbeing or simply the education of others.
    Your suggestions would lead to a huge number of expulsions. What would happen to all the expelled kids, though? Where would they go?
    It would only lead to expulsions for those who are a threat or danger to others, or are disrupting the education of others. They should be expelled.

    That's like saying we shouldn't arrest criminals because it would lead to a large number of arrests.

    Where should they go? Have a more secure education system for them where they can be educated without causing harm to others.
    1, "Disrupting the education of others" is a huge catch-all that would lead to mass expulsions.
    2. Your analogy with criminals isn't relevant, as we don't imprison kids.
    3. As others have mentioned, pupil referral units (PRUs) are struggling to cope with the limited business they currently have, without having to pick up thousands more expulsions.
    4. Is it really that good an idea to put all the badly-behaved kids in the same place(s) rather than spreading them out?
    1. No its not. I'm not suggesting any low-level disruption should lead to expulsion but if someone is seriously disrupting the education of others that isn't fair on the others and yes they should be
    2. If appropriate we do have appropriate juvenile centres to send kids to.
    3. So? Invest more in expanding PRUs if necessary, that's not an excuse to harm the education of others. Give the pupils with behavioural issues the support they need in PRUs, and give other kids the education they need without disruption.
    4. Who said they should all be in the same place? If you invest in expanding the network of PRUs then couldn't they be even more spread out than at present? But if need be, maybe, better than them dragging down other kids with them.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 13,744

    Leon said:

    On topic, I am struggling to update my analogies for just how fucked the Tories are.

    The stepmom just doesn't cover it.

    The Tories are a duck. With its head trapped in a drawer, in an opium den at number 7, street 310, Phnom Penh, in about 1936

    And there’s a whole load of laughing foreign legionnaires queuing to have a go

    That’s the Tories; I believe that nicely captures their plight
    Wait, the Tories are an urban myth.
    Urban Tories pretty much are mythical creatures these days.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,613
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    Ofsted meets the Posf Office.

    Ofsted inspectors ‘make up evidence’ about a school’s performance when IT fails
    Inspector tells Observer investigation that top officials are aware that computer system crashes can wipe out data
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/feb/03/ofsted-inspectors-make-up-evidence-about-a-schools-performance-when-it-fails


    Imagine their judgment if a school were to do this.

    And of course senior management lied about it.

    I wonder if that includes the multiple safeguarding concerns about the behaviour of their inspectors that get raised but mysteriously never actioned?
    The denials and bromides from Ofsted, each time some problem is reported, are spookily reminiscent of those from the PO.
    I do feel a bit sorry for Oliver. He has been lumbered with an absolute shitshow. An inspectorate with an inspection framework that militates against a good education. Senior staff who include weak and not very bright tools of the DfE (hello, Mr Gribbell). Computer systems that don't work. An organisation in breach of its statutory duties on safeguarding training. A case where they have been publicly declared to have committed perjury. Non-existent quality control procedures. The people they are meant to be inspecting so mistrustful of them that sometimes they have been illegally refused permission to inspect.

    Ironically, he's been one of the most vocal critics of OFSTED over many of these issues for many years.

    Whether he can turn it round - or, alternatively, come up with a more credible alternative, which realistically is probably the best option now - is going to be quite a test for him.

    I do hope for everyone's sake, including his own, that he's up to it, but I cannot see any shame if he falls short.
    The output of Ofsted is mostly significant as a determinant of house prices.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    edited February 3

    Leon said:

    On topic, I am struggling to update my analogies for just how fucked the Tories are.

    The stepmom just doesn't cover it.

    The Tories are a duck. With its head trapped in a drawer, in an opium den at number 7, street 310, Phnom Penh, in about 1936

    And there’s a whole load of laughing foreign legionnaires queuing to have a go

    That’s the Tories; I believe that nicely captures their plight
    Curious thing is that I don't think there's going to be much national pleasure derived from Sacking Sunak, unlike in the duck scenario.

    There was when Blair replaced Major, and (somewhat less) when Cameron replaced Brown. Some were very pleased about the 2016 vote, and some when Johnson went.

    But I'm not getting that vibe. Sunak's got to go, they've all got to go, and come back when they have thought about what they've done and promised to be better in the future. But it's a tedious necessity.

    I imagine getting treatment from the clap clinic is much the same. Perhaps someone who had led a more colourful life can confirm.
    Yes I agree. There won’t be that dreamy floaty euphoria you got when Blair won. I remember the sun shining. It was late spring. Even as a right winger I shared some of that hope

    This time it will be like removing ten tons of rotting rubbish from the backyard. A grim but needed job

    I imagine some ardent lefties will feel a little joy, most people will be wearily relieved it is over
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,356
    edited February 3
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brianna Ghey was in part targeted because of being trans. There is no point denying this given that this is the evidence which has come out at trial and which has been mentioned in the judge's summing up. We can only deal with the vulnerability of children and those who hate them for particular characteristics if we are honest about the reasons why awful crimes happen.

    Being trans made Brianna vulnerable. I do think there are serious questions to be asked about the safeguarding here of a vulnerable child. Those questions need addressing to the school. Those safeguarding questions also need to be asked in relation to the two murderers. The role of porn and violent videos also arises.

    See also my comment fpt here - https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4675284#Comment_4675284.

    No it wasn't. It was the prejudice that people like you have been peddling week in and week out against unfortunate vulnerable people like Briana. She seems to me to have been considerably more balanced than those who have seen them as freaks and opportunists and encouraged others to see them the same
    Yes, of course, this awful murder is @cyclefree’s fault for giving her measured opinions on this issue. Do you actually wake up in the morning and think “how can I be even more preposterous today”?

    Somehow, you manage it
    On the safeguarding - it appears that one of the teens was moved from another school after a nasty attack on another child.

    In the new school, they weren’t told about this. Just that she had “issues”.

    So they put her in group of those, like Briana, who were vulnerable.

    Everyone followed The Process. They put a shark in the fish tank.
    One of the grave weaknesses of our education system is we have no proper system for dealing with children who have been expelled for behaviour like this. This means it's far too difficult to get rid of them and when you do they're normally shunted somewhere else without proper processes and therefore cause more problems.

    It's partly due to cutbacks but mostly due to stupidity, viz. the idea that somehow every child should be in a mainstream school and kept there come hell or high water no matter what is going on.

    Not good for the troublemakers and not good for those around them.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    A return to the days of "special schools" for anyone who is different isn't needed, I do think its a good thing that those who are different and have special education needs or disabilities are, wherever possible, in mainstream schools.

    But awful behaviour is not a special need, its awful behaviour. Schools should be free to expel anyone who won't follow behaviour policy and is disruptive to the safety, wellbeing or simply the education of others.
    Your suggestions would lead to a huge number of expulsions. What would happen to all the expelled kids, though? Where would they go?
    It would only lead to expulsions for those who are a threat or danger to others, or are disrupting the education of others. They should be expelled.

    That's like saying we shouldn't arrest criminals because it would lead to a large number of arrests.

    Where should they go? Have a more secure education system for them where they can be educated without causing harm to others.
    1, "Disrupting the education of others" is a huge catch-all that would lead to mass expulsions.
    2. Your analogy with criminals isn't relevant, as we don't imprison kids.
    3. As others have mentioned, pupil referral units (PRUs) are struggling to cope with the limited business they currently have, without having to pick up thousands more expulsions.
    4. Is it really that good an idea to put all the badly-behaved kids in the same place(s) rather than spreading them out?
    It is a bloody stupid idea to spread them through the education system so they disrupt *everyone's* education. Or, where there is no proper system to restrain them on the many occasions they become violent.

    That is not controversial.

    It is also an idea of the DfE, who are chiefly known for drinking and arithmetical errors. Which doesn't inspire confidence anyway.

    We might ask ourselves other questions, perhaps. Why are there so many of them? Why is it schools always have to pick up the mess for failings that are nothing to do with them? What should we be doing to properly sort this out?
    To be provocative: I'm sure you know that there aren't actually that many highly-disruptive, or violent, kids, and quite often excellent teaching and whole-school behaviour management reduces such behaviour to a minor irritation. It's really no coincidence that the best-led schools, with great teachers, don't have too many issues with behaviour - even in 'deprived' areas. Whereas poor leadership and poor teaching maximises poor behaviour.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,004
    After having imploded since 2019 and then digging a hole on the site of the implosion with the Boris-Truss-Sunak switcharoo, recovery was not going to be easy. Unfortunately for the party Rishi has very much underperformed expectations on that front - instead of a hope of victory or minimal loss at least, now the conversation is around whether there will be a 1997 style wipeout (or worse), or more of a 2005 style loss.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,616

    Leon said:

    On topic, I am struggling to update my analogies for just how fucked the Tories are.

    The stepmom just doesn't cover it.

    The Tories are a duck. With its head trapped in a drawer, in an opium den at number 7, street 310, Phnom Penh, in about 1936

    And there’s a whole load of laughing foreign legionnaires queuing to have a go

    That’s the Tories; I believe that nicely captures their plight
    Curious thing is that I don't think there's going to be much national pleasure derived from Sacking Sunak, unlike in the duck scenario.

    There was when Blair replaced Major, and (somewhat less) when Cameron replaced Brown. Some were very pleased about the 2016 vote, and some when Johnson went.

    But I'm not getting that vibe. Sunak's got to go, they've all got to go, and come back when they have thought about what they've done and promised to be better in the future. But it's a tedious necessity.

    I imagine getting treatment from the clap clinic is much the same. Perhaps someone who had led a more colourful life can confirm.
    Sometimes the leader becomes the personification and the focus of the anger rather than the Party. Major, for example, took the burden of the anger of the electorate willingly and did so in order to give the rest of the Conservative Party a chance at a clean break and a fresh start.

    Brown probably did the same unwillingly as did Johnson.

    This is different - the anger is much wider and deeper than just Sunak, it is directed at the entire Conservative Party (safe for a few locally-based semi-independents) who have led the Government since 2010. I know some on here will try to put up all kinds of evidence showing how much more wonderful life is and how much better off we all are since 2010 but tha6t's not how people see it and feel it.

    Rather like perceptions about crime and the number of muslims in the population, it's very hard for the truth or any kind of objective assessment to get a hearing. Minds are made up, many in the electorate simply want to give the Conservatives a good kicking (a better analogy than most of those @TSE comes up with) and it may not end with the GE. It may be the kickings will continue for a few years yet hindering the party's recovery.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,004
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, I am struggling to update my analogies for just how fucked the Tories are.

    The stepmom just doesn't cover it.

    The Tories are a duck. With its head trapped in a drawer, in an opium den at number 7, street 310, Phnom Penh, in about 1936

    And there’s a whole load of laughing foreign legionnaires queuing to have a go

    That’s the Tories; I believe that nicely captures their plight
    Curious thing is that I don't think there's going to be much national pleasure derived from Sacking Sunak, unlike in the duck scenario.

    There was when Blair replaced Major, and (somewhat less) when Cameron replaced Brown. Some were very pleased about the 2016 vote, and some when Johnson went.

    But I'm not getting that vibe. Sunak's got to go, they've all got to go, and come back when they have thought about what they've done and promised to be better in the future. But it's a tedious necessity.

    I imagine getting treatment from the clap clinic is much the same. Perhaps someone who had led a more colourful life can confirm.
    Yes I agree. There won’t be that dreamy floaty euphoria you got when Blair won. I remember the sun shining. It was late spring. Even as a right winger I shared some of that hope

    This time it will be like removing ten tons of rotting rubbish from the backyard. A grim but needed job

    I imagine some ardent lefties will feel a little joy, most people will be wearily relieved it is over
    I guess it means he has a shot of pleasing more people than those who expect it, so has a chance to improve his reputation if he does something positive quickly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    Dreadful from wales
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,381
    Leon said:

    Wales could take an absolute beating here

    After more than 20 years I am not taking anything for granted yet.
  • Okay got it.

    The Tories are as doomed as the Bulgarians/Samuel II at the Battle of Kleidion.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brianna Ghey was in part targeted because of being trans. There is no point denying this given that this is the evidence which has come out at trial and which has been mentioned in the judge's summing up. We can only deal with the vulnerability of children and those who hate them for particular characteristics if we are honest about the reasons why awful crimes happen.

    Being trans made Brianna vulnerable. I do think there are serious questions to be asked about the safeguarding here of a vulnerable child. Those questions need addressing to the school. Those safeguarding questions also need to be asked in relation to the two murderers. The role of porn and violent videos also arises.

    See also my comment fpt here - https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4675284#Comment_4675284.

    No it wasn't. It was the prejudice that people like you have been peddling week in and week out against unfortunate vulnerable people like Briana. She seems to me to have been considerably more balanced than those who have seen them as freaks and opportunists and encouraged others to see them the same
    Yes, of course, this awful murder is @cyclefree’s fault for giving her measured opinions on this issue. Do you actually wake up in the morning and think “how can I be even more preposterous today”?

    Somehow, you manage it
    On the safeguarding - it appears that one of the teens was moved from another school after a nasty attack on another child.

    In the new school, they weren’t told about this. Just that she had “issues”.

    So they put her in group of those, like Briana, who were vulnerable.

    Everyone followed The Process. They put a shark in the fish tank.
    One of the grave weaknesses of our education system is we have no proper system for dealing with children who have been expelled for behaviour like this. This means it's far too difficult to get rid of them and when you do they're normally shunted somewhere else without proper processes and therefore cause more problems.

    It's partly due to cutbacks but mostly due to stupidity, viz. the idea that somehow every child should be in a mainstream school and kept there come hell or high water no matter what is going on.

    Not good for the troublemakers and not good for those around them.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    A return to the days of "special schools" for anyone who is different isn't needed, I do think its a good thing that those who are different and have special education needs or disabilities are, wherever possible, in mainstream schools.

    But awful behaviour is not a special need, its awful behaviour. Schools should be free to expel anyone who won't follow behaviour policy and is disruptive to the safety, wellbeing or simply the education of others.
    Your suggestions would lead to a huge number of expulsions. What would happen to all the expelled kids, though? Where would they go?
    It would only lead to expulsions for those who are a threat or danger to others, or are disrupting the education of others. They should be expelled.

    That's like saying we shouldn't arrest criminals because it would lead to a large number of arrests.

    Where should they go? Have a more secure education system for them where they can be educated without causing harm to others.
    1, "Disrupting the education of others" is a huge catch-all that would lead to mass expulsions.
    2. Your analogy with criminals isn't relevant, as we don't imprison kids.
    3. As others have mentioned, pupil referral units (PRUs) are struggling to cope with the limited business they currently have, without having to pick up thousands more expulsions.
    4. Is it really that good an idea to put all the badly-behaved kids in the same place(s) rather than spreading them out?
    It is a bloody stupid idea to spread them through the education system so they disrupt *everyone's* education. Or, where there is no proper system to restrain them on the many occasions they become violent.

    That is not controversial.

    It is also an idea of the DfE, who are chiefly known for drinking and arithmetical errors. Which doesn't inspire confidence anyway.

    We might ask ourselves other questions, perhaps. Why are there so many of them? Why is it schools always have to pick up the mess for failings that are nothing to do with them? What should we be doing to properly sort this out?
    To be provocative: I'm sure you know that there aren't actually that many highly-disruptive, or violent, kids, and quite often excellent teaching and whole-school behaviour management reduces such behaviour to a minor irritation. It's really no coincidence that the best-led schools, with great teachers, don't have too many issues with behaviour - even in 'deprived' areas. Whereas poor leadership and poor teaching maximises poor behaviour.
    Not to be provocative, merely factual - you are wrong.

    Where there are excellent whole school behaviour policies and strong leadership they have waiting lists. So they can be choosy about who they take, and when disruptive children do slip through the cracks they are very quickly 'manage moved' elsewhere (which seems to be what happened in this case, incidentally). What does tend to happen though is that as a result behaviour in schools around them gets much worse as they pick up the ones that are rejected and find they can't move them on themselves. I have seen that in both Gloucestershire and Staffordshire. In Gloucester, indeed, for many years one of the best schools in terms of educational practice was Oxstalls, but because St Peter's, Chosen Hill and the grammars quickly booted any troublemakers to them the behaviour was terrible, and so were the educational outcomes.

    I think your background is in FE and admin. An altogether different ballgame. You would, I think and hope, be shocked at the tricks schools get up to to fool inspection teams and parents.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,004
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    Ofsted meets the Posf Office.

    Ofsted inspectors ‘make up evidence’ about a school’s performance when IT fails
    Inspector tells Observer investigation that top officials are aware that computer system crashes can wipe out data
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/feb/03/ofsted-inspectors-make-up-evidence-about-a-schools-performance-when-it-fails


    Imagine their judgment if a school were to do this.

    And of course senior management lied about it.

    I wonder if that includes the multiple safeguarding concerns about the behaviour of their inspectors that get raised but mysteriously never actioned?
    The denials and bromides from Ofsted, each time some problem is reported, are spookily reminiscent of those from the PO.
    It's a rare organisation that does not eventually become principally concerned with securing its own reputation and interests over its purported mission or obligations. And many start out that way.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Wales could take an absolute beating here

    After more than 20 years I am not taking anything for granted yet.
    Finn Russell is the best player on the pitch by a light year, perhaps the best player in the 6N now DuPont is out. AND he’s on form and looks hungry

    This could be a 20+ point win for Scotland; indeed, should be
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,004
    edited February 3
    I really want Scotland to win the 6 nations. They were pretty bad for quite a long time, and have deserved better luck in recent years. Wales, Ireland, and France, all seem to yoyo in quality, but have had plenty of good years.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243

    Okay got it.

    The Tories are as doomed as the Bulgarians/Samuel II at the Battle of Kleidion.

    Would 'the Scots at Flodden' be too controversial?
  • ydoethur said:

    Okay got it.

    The Tories are as doomed as the Bulgarians/Samuel II at the Battle of Kleidion.

    Would 'the Scots at Flodden' be too controversial?
    Yes.

    Although your earlier observation about the Battle of Mons Graupius also works.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    kle4 said:

    I really want Scotland to win the 6 nations. They were pretty bad for quite a long time, and have deserved better luck in recent years. Wales, Ireland, and France, all seem to yoyo in quality.

    They’ve got Ireland away on the final day, when Ireland will probably be cruising to a Slam with all of Dublin roaring them on

    The only team that might stop Ireland is England - they’ve got Ireland at Twickers. I’d still have Ireland as easy faves tho
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,381
    kle4 said:

    I really want Scotland to win the 6 nations. They were pretty bad for quite a long time, and have deserved better luck in recent years. Wales, Ireland, and France, all seem to yoyo in quality, but have had plenty of good years.

    I would love it but I really have trouble seeing past Ireland.
  • kle4 said:

    I really want Scotland to win the 6 nations. They were pretty bad for quite a long time, and have deserved better luck in recent years. Wales, Ireland, and France, all seem to yoyo in quality, but have had plenty of good years.

    The Scots were responsible for my earliest disappointment in rugby.

    David Sole's team in 1990 broke this eleven year old's heart that day.

    At least we got revenge in a match that really mattered a year later.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,356
    edited February 3
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brianna Ghey was in part targeted because of being trans. There is no point denying this given that this is the evidence which has come out at trial and which has been mentioned in the judge's summing up. We can only deal with the vulnerability of children and those who hate them for particular characteristics if we are honest about the reasons why awful crimes happen.

    Being trans made Brianna vulnerable. I do think there are serious questions to be asked about the safeguarding here of a vulnerable child. Those questions need addressing to the school. Those safeguarding questions also need to be asked in relation to the two murderers. The role of porn and violent videos also arises.

    See also my comment fpt here - https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4675284#Comment_4675284.

    No it wasn't. It was the prejudice that people like you have been peddling week in and week out against unfortunate vulnerable people like Briana. She seems to me to have been considerably more balanced than those who have seen them as freaks and opportunists and encouraged others to see them the same
    Yes, of course, this awful murder is @cyclefree’s fault for giving her measured opinions on this issue. Do you actually wake up in the morning and think “how can I be even more preposterous today”?

    Somehow, you manage it
    On the safeguarding - it appears that one of the teens was moved from another school after a nasty attack on another child.

    In the new school, they weren’t told about this. Just that she had “issues”.

    So they put her in group of those, like Briana, who were vulnerable.

    Everyone followed The Process. They put a shark in the fish tank.
    One of the grave weaknesses of our education system is we have no proper system for dealing with children who have been expelled for behaviour like this. This means it's far too difficult to get rid of them and when you do they're normally shunted somewhere else without proper processes and therefore cause more problems.

    It's partly due to cutbacks but mostly due to stupidity, viz. the idea that somehow every child should be in a mainstream school and kept there come hell or high water no matter what is going on.

    Not good for the troublemakers and not good for those around them.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    A return to the days of "special schools" for anyone who is different isn't needed, I do think its a good thing that those who are different and have special education needs or disabilities are, wherever possible, in mainstream schools.

    But awful behaviour is not a special need, its awful behaviour. Schools should be free to expel anyone who won't follow behaviour policy and is disruptive to the safety, wellbeing or simply the education of others.
    Your suggestions would lead to a huge number of expulsions. What would happen to all the expelled kids, though? Where would they go?
    It would only lead to expulsions for those who are a threat or danger to others, or are disrupting the education of others. They should be expelled.

    That's like saying we shouldn't arrest criminals because it would lead to a large number of arrests.

    Where should they go? Have a more secure education system for them where they can be educated without causing harm to others.
    1, "Disrupting the education of others" is a huge catch-all that would lead to mass expulsions.
    2. Your analogy with criminals isn't relevant, as we don't imprison kids.
    3. As others have mentioned, pupil referral units (PRUs) are struggling to cope with the limited business they currently have, without having to pick up thousands more expulsions.
    4. Is it really that good an idea to put all the badly-behaved kids in the same place(s) rather than spreading them out?
    It is a bloody stupid idea to spread them through the education system so they disrupt *everyone's* education. Or, where there is no proper system to restrain them on the many occasions they become violent.

    That is not controversial.

    It is also an idea of the DfE, who are chiefly known for drinking and arithmetical errors. Which doesn't inspire confidence anyway.

    We might ask ourselves other questions, perhaps. Why are there so many of them? Why is it schools always have to pick up the mess for failings that are nothing to do with them? What should we be doing to properly sort this out?
    To be provocative: I'm sure you know that there aren't actually that many highly-disruptive, or violent, kids, and quite often excellent teaching and whole-school behaviour management reduces such behaviour to a minor irritation. It's really no coincidence that the best-led schools, with great teachers, don't have too many issues with behaviour - even in 'deprived' areas. Whereas poor leadership and poor teaching maximises poor behaviour.
    Not to be provocative, merely factual - you are wrong.

    Where there are excellent whole school behaviour policies and strong leadership they have waiting lists. So they can be choosy about who they take, and when disruptive children do slip through the cracks they are very quickly 'manage moved' elsewhere (which seems to be what happened in this case, incidentally). What does tend to happen though is that as a result behaviour in schools around them gets much worse as they pick up the ones that are rejected and find they can't move them on themselves. I have seen that in both Gloucestershire and Staffordshire. In Gloucester, indeed, for many years one of the best schools in terms of educational practice was Oxstalls, but because St Peter's, Chosen Hill and the grammars quickly booted any troublemakers to them the behaviour was terrible, and so were the educational outcomes.

    I think your background is in FE and admin. An altogether different ballgame. You would, I think and hope, be shocked at the tricks schools get up to to fool inspection teams and parents.
    Don't agree with all that, particularly the bit that I'd be 'shocked' at the tricks schools get up to - though that's not universal. And I've taught in schools as well as FE - don't know where the admin comes from. As for "you are wrong" - I think you mean you disagree with me.

    Nevertheless, I don't want to argue with you. So - could England still turn it around against India?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    England have Scotland away. Tricky. Fancy Scotland to win that
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,381
    ydoethur said:

    Okay got it.

    The Tories are as doomed as the Bulgarians/Samuel II at the Battle of Kleidion.

    Would 'the Scots at Flodden' be too controversial?
    Or the English at Prestonpans?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,613
    On the subject of computer/data management systems, I have been working in the public sector in an operational delivery role and found that the best systems are those that are effectively unchanged since the first wave of computerisation 30 years ago (the 'legacy' systems). I've worked with two really poor 'modernised' systems over the last decade that have promised the world but just lost masses of data, causing no end of problems. When I was in a government office we had a version of Horizon (not sure if it is linked to the post office situation) which was absolutely fine, the organisation I worked for saw sense and never pursued its various trials of alternative systems, much to the annoyance of the endless stream of change consultants inflicted upon us. The industry I work in seems to fundamentally work in email, word documents and PDF's, saved on shared drives; a system that has existed unchanged for at least 25 years.
  • DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Okay got it.

    The Tories are as doomed as the Bulgarians/Samuel II at the Battle of Kleidion.

    Would 'the Scots at Flodden' be too controversial?
    Or the English at Prestonpans?
    Nah, they won the battle but not the war.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 38,654

    ydoethur said:

    Okay got it.

    The Tories are as doomed as the Bulgarians/Samuel II at the Battle of Kleidion.

    Would 'the Scots at Flodden' be too controversial?
    Yes.

    Although your earlier observation about the Battle of Mons Graupius also works.
    Technically, Ydoethur is probably right. I couldn't give a monkey's personally - I agree they were idiots - but I do object on the historical principle that the Scots had a much better chance to begin with than the Tories do going into the election.

    And the battle of Roßbach won't do either as the Prussians went in as very much the underdog, which is not the case for Labour.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243
    edited February 3

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brianna Ghey was in part targeted because of being trans. There is no point denying this given that this is the evidence which has come out at trial and which has been mentioned in the judge's summing up. We can only deal with the vulnerability of children and those who hate them for particular characteristics if we are honest about the reasons why awful crimes happen.

    Being trans made Brianna vulnerable. I do think there are serious questions to be asked about the safeguarding here of a vulnerable child. Those questions need addressing to the school. Those safeguarding questions also need to be asked in relation to the two murderers. The role of porn and violent videos also arises.

    See also my comment fpt here - https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4675284#Comment_4675284.

    No it wasn't. It was the prejudice that people like you have been peddling week in and week out against unfortunate vulnerable people like Briana. She seems to me to have been considerably more balanced than those who have seen them as freaks and opportunists and encouraged others to see them the same
    Yes, of course, this awful murder is @cyclefree’s fault for giving her measured opinions on this issue. Do you actually wake up in the morning and think “how can I be even more preposterous today”?

    Somehow, you manage it
    On the safeguarding - it appears that one of the teens was moved from another school after a nasty attack on another child.

    In the new school, they weren’t told about this. Just that she had “issues”.

    So they put her in group of those, like Briana, who were vulnerable.

    Everyone followed The Process. They put a shark in the fish tank.
    One of the grave weaknesses of our education system is we have no proper system for dealing with children who have been expelled for behaviour like this. This means it's far too difficult to get rid of them and when you do they're normally shunted somewhere else without proper processes and therefore cause more problems.

    It's partly due to cutbacks but mostly due to stupidity, viz. the idea that somehow every child should be in a mainstream school and kept there come hell or high water no matter what is going on.

    Not good for the troublemakers and not good for those around them.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    A return to the days of "special schools" for anyone who is different isn't needed, I do think its a good thing that those who are different and have special education needs or disabilities are, wherever possible, in mainstream schools.

    But awful behaviour is not a special need, its awful behaviour. Schools should be free to expel anyone who won't follow behaviour policy and is disruptive to the safety, wellbeing or simply the education of others.
    Your suggestions would lead to a huge number of expulsions. What would happen to all the expelled kids, though? Where would they go?
    It would only lead to expulsions for those who are a threat or danger to others, or are disrupting the education of others. They should be expelled.

    That's like saying we shouldn't arrest criminals because it would lead to a large number of arrests.

    Where should they go? Have a more secure education system for them where they can be educated without causing harm to others.
    1, "Disrupting the education of others" is a huge catch-all that would lead to mass expulsions.
    2. Your analogy with criminals isn't relevant, as we don't imprison kids.
    3. As others have mentioned, pupil referral units (PRUs) are struggling to cope with the limited business they currently have, without having to pick up thousands more expulsions.
    4. Is it really that good an idea to put all the badly-behaved kids in the same place(s) rather than spreading them out?
    It is a bloody stupid idea to spread them through the education system so they disrupt *everyone's* education. Or, where there is no proper system to restrain them on the many occasions they become violent.

    That is not controversial.

    It is also an idea of the DfE, who are chiefly known for drinking and arithmetical errors. Which doesn't inspire confidence anyway.

    We might ask ourselves other questions, perhaps. Why are there so many of them? Why is it schools always have to pick up the mess for failings that are nothing to do with them? What should we be doing to properly sort this out?
    To be provocative: I'm sure you know that there aren't actually that many highly-disruptive, or violent, kids, and quite often excellent teaching and whole-school behaviour management reduces such behaviour to a minor irritation. It's really no coincidence that the best-led schools, with great teachers, don't have too many issues with behaviour - even in 'deprived' areas. Whereas poor leadership and poor teaching maximises poor behaviour.
    Not to be provocative, merely factual - you are wrong.

    Where there are excellent whole school behaviour policies and strong leadership they have waiting lists. So they can be choosy about who they take, and when disruptive children do slip through the cracks they are very quickly 'manage moved' elsewhere (which seems to be what happened in this case, incidentally). What does tend to happen though is that as a result behaviour in schools around them gets much worse as they pick up the ones that are rejected and find they can't move them on themselves. I have seen that in both Gloucestershire and Staffordshire. In Gloucester, indeed, for many years one of the best schools in terms of educational practice was Oxstalls, but because St Peter's, Chosen Hill and the grammars quickly booted any troublemakers to them the behaviour was terrible, and so were the educational outcomes.

    I think your background is in FE and admin. An altogether different ballgame. You would, I think and hope, be shocked at the tricks schools get up to to fool inspection teams and parents.
    Don't agree with all that, particularly the bit that I'd be 'shocked' at the tricks schools get up to - though that's not universal. And I've taught in schools as well as FE - don't know where the admin comes from.

    Nevertheless, I don't want to argue with you. So - could England still turn it around against India?
    No. They can't. India by 250 runs would be my guess.

    I apologise for the mistake over your background being in FE. It was based on something you once said, which I clearly misunderstood. The admin - well, you are associated in some capacity with the DfE and OFSTED.

    I've spent nineteen years in three comps, including two inner city comps, two universities, one grammar school and two private schools trying to get the system to work. What I've seen has inspired a mixture of disillusionment, disgust and red rage that means Susan Acland-Hood, Amanda Spielman, Nick Gibb, Christopher Wormald, Dominic Cummings, Ed Balls and Sam Freedman would not be safe if they ever happened to meet me. So you're probably wise not to want to quarrel.

    I've come to the conclusion in the words of one Bob the Builder inspired meme, 'can we fix it? No, it's fucked.'

    The reasons are complex, but chronic central mismanagement is certainly one. Lack of understanding on behavioural issues is a part of that, although to be fair it's a symptom as much as a cause.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 38,654

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Okay got it.

    The Tories are as doomed as the Bulgarians/Samuel II at the Battle of Kleidion.

    Would 'the Scots at Flodden' be too controversial?
    Or the English at Prestonpans?
    Nah, they won the battle but not the war.
    Yes, controversial. Because Gladsmuir was the Hanoverians with a British army vs the Jacobites with a (more or less) British army.
  • I've actually got an idea for a thread now.

    Boris Johnson = James Francis Edward Stuart

    Nadine Dorries= Charles Edward Stuart

    Rishi Sunak = George II

    (Yes it is a work in progress)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 60,485
    darkage said:

    On the subject of computer/data management systems, I have been working in the public sector in an operational delivery role and found that the best systems are those that are effectively unchanged since the first wave of computerisation 30 years ago (the 'legacy' systems). I've worked with two really poor 'modernised' systems over the last decade that have promised the world but just lost masses of data, causing no end of problems. When I was in a government office we had a version of Horizon (not sure if it is linked to the post office situation) which was absolutely fine, the organisation I worked for saw sense and never pursued its various trials of alternative systems, much to the annoyance of the endless stream of change consultants inflicted upon us. The industry I work in seems to fundamentally work in email, word documents and PDF's, saved on shared drives; a system that has existed unchanged for at least 25 years.

    I just hope that they never mess with PDFs, which make for great document archiving for the non experts (me).

    I note Ofsted inspectors were threatened with disciplinary action if they tried to use Word, rather than the flaky proprietary system.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    Scotland haven’t won in Cardiff for 22 years?! Wow
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 38,654

    I've actually got an idea for a thread now.

    Boris Johnson = James Francis Edward Stuart

    Nadine Dorries= Charles Edward Stuart

    Rishi Sunak = George II

    (Yes it is a work in progress)

    And who is Mary of Modena then? Not to mention Lord George Murray (poor sod).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243
    Nigelb said:

    darkage said:

    On the subject of computer/data management systems, I have been working in the public sector in an operational delivery role and found that the best systems are those that are effectively unchanged since the first wave of computerisation 30 years ago (the 'legacy' systems). I've worked with two really poor 'modernised' systems over the last decade that have promised the world but just lost masses of data, causing no end of problems. When I was in a government office we had a version of Horizon (not sure if it is linked to the post office situation) which was absolutely fine, the organisation I worked for saw sense and never pursued its various trials of alternative systems, much to the annoyance of the endless stream of change consultants inflicted upon us. The industry I work in seems to fundamentally work in email, word documents and PDF's, saved on shared drives; a system that has existed unchanged for at least 25 years.

    I just hope that they never mess with PDFs, which make for great document archiving for the non experts (me).

    I note Ofsted inspectors were threatened with disciplinary action if they tried to use Word, rather than the flaky proprietary system.
    Doubly bizarre, because what's wrong with writing in Word and copying it across? As long as you delete the Word document when the data's safely saved, or even when the report is published, there's no GDPR implication (not that OFSTED train their inspectors in that either).

    Also, why were they using an open input system with no autosave function? Annoying as Vanilla saving multiple posts can be, at least it's a simple trick that stops you losing an entire post. It should not have been beyond even the limited wits of Spielman and Russell to ask for something similar.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,219

    Leon said:

    On topic, I am struggling to update my analogies for just how fucked the Tories are.

    The stepmom just doesn't cover it.

    The Tories are a duck. With its head trapped in a drawer, in an opium den at number 7, street 310, Phnom Penh, in about 1936

    And there’s a whole load of laughing foreign legionnaires queuing to have a go

    That’s the Tories; I believe that nicely captures their plight
    Curious thing is that I don't think there's going to be much national pleasure derived from Sacking Sunak, unlike in the duck scenario.

    There was when Blair replaced Major, and (somewhat less) when Cameron replaced Brown. Some were very pleased about the 2016 vote, and some when Johnson went.

    But I'm not getting that vibe. Sunak's got to go, they've all got to go, and come back when they have thought about what they've done and promised to be better in the future. But it's a tedious necessity.

    I imagine getting treatment from the clap clinic is much the same. Perhaps someone who had led a more colourful life can confirm.
    What's happened though is that through his actions and failures, Sunak's become a big part of that. When he first came into No. 10, he had better ratings than his party, more or less because he didn't look like one of the crackpots or liars the Tories had promoted to high-profile jobs and looked vaguely competent.

    In little over a year he's managed to destroy his reputation by tying himself to his party's crackpots to the extent that there would be a huge outburst of joy from those who want rid of the Tories. Or more a sigh of relief that 14 years of failure is finally over. But that will be something to cheer for.
  • RWPRWP Posts: 9
    Will there be a thread on the odds for next Welsh FM? If Gething wins, all 6 of the top political roles in the UK and Ireland will be no longer held by white men (along with Sunak, Yusuf, Varadkar, O'Neill and Pengelly). In 2014 all 6 roles were held by white men (Cameron, Salmond, Jones, Robinson, McGuinness and Kenny).
  • Carnyx said:

    I've actually got an idea for a thread now.

    Boris Johnson = James Francis Edward Stuart

    Nadine Dorries= Charles Edward Stuart

    Rishi Sunak = George II

    (Yes it is a work in progress)

    And who is Mary of Modena then? Not to mention Lord George Murray (poor sod).
    Yeah, it is still a work in progress.

    Mary of Modena = Liz Truss?

    Lord Murray = Now that is really tricky. Lisa Cameron?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243
    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, I am struggling to update my analogies for just how fucked the Tories are.

    The stepmom just doesn't cover it.

    The Tories are a duck. With its head trapped in a drawer, in an opium den at number 7, street 310, Phnom Penh, in about 1936

    And there’s a whole load of laughing foreign legionnaires queuing to have a go

    That’s the Tories; I believe that nicely captures their plight
    Curious thing is that I don't think there's going to be much national pleasure derived from Sacking Sunak, unlike in the duck scenario.

    There was when Blair replaced Major, and (somewhat less) when Cameron replaced Brown. Some were very pleased about the 2016 vote, and some when Johnson went.

    But I'm not getting that vibe. Sunak's got to go, they've all got to go, and come back when they have thought about what they've done and promised to be better in the future. But it's a tedious necessity.

    I imagine getting treatment from the clap clinic is much the same. Perhaps someone who had led a more colourful life can confirm.
    What's happened though is that through his actions and failures, Sunak's become a big part of that. When he first came into No. 10, he had better ratings than his party, more or less because he didn't look like one of the crackpots or liars the Tories had promoted to high-profile jobs and looked vaguely competent.

    In little over a year he's managed to destroy his reputation by tying himself to his party's crackpots to the extent that there would be a huge outburst of joy from those who want rid of the Tories. Or more a sigh of relief that 14 years of failure is finally over. But that will be something to cheer for.
    And it was totally unnecessary. He had a golden opportunity to restore calm after Covid, Johnson and Truss. But he blew it harder than an intern Clinton was paying by the orgasm.

    Whatever Sunak's strengths, he clearly has terrible judgement. On HS2, on small boats, on tax, on cabinet personnel, he's constantly made not just a poor choice but the worst imaginable choice.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    Russell and van Der Merwe

    Very impressive

    Maybe after all I can see why Rees Zammit bailed
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,356
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brianna Ghey was in part targeted because of being trans. There is no point denying this given that this is the evidence which has come out at trial and which has been mentioned in the judge's summing up. We can only deal with the vulnerability of children and those who hate them for particular characteristics if we are honest about the reasons why awful crimes happen.

    Being trans made Brianna vulnerable. I do think there are serious questions to be asked about the safeguarding here of a vulnerable child. Those questions need addressing to the school. Those safeguarding questions also need to be asked in relation to the two murderers. The role of porn and violent videos also arises.

    See also my comment fpt here - https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4675284#Comment_4675284.

    No it wasn't. It was the prejudice that people like you have been peddling week in and week out against unfortunate vulnerable people like Briana. She seems to me to have been considerably more balanced than those who have seen them as freaks and opportunists and encouraged others to see them the same
    Yes, of course, this awful murder is @cyclefree’s fault for giving her measured opinions on this issue. Do you actually wake up in the morning and think “how can I be even more preposterous today”?

    Somehow, you manage it
    On the safeguarding - it appears that one of the teens was moved from another school after a nasty attack on another child.

    In the new school, they weren’t told about this. Just that she had “issues”.

    So they put her in group of those, like Briana, who were vulnerable.

    Everyone followed The Process. They put a shark in the fish tank.
    One of the grave weaknesses of our education system is we have no proper system for dealing with children who have been expelled for behaviour like this. This means it's far too difficult to get rid of them and when you do they're normally shunted somewhere else without proper processes and therefore cause more problems.

    It's partly due to cutbacks but mostly due to stupidity, viz. the idea that somehow every child should be in a mainstream school and kept there come hell or high water no matter what is going on.

    Not good for the troublemakers and not good for those around them.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    A return to the days of "special schools" for anyone who is different isn't needed, I do think its a good thing that those who are different and have special education needs or disabilities are, wherever possible, in mainstream schools.

    But awful behaviour is not a special need, its awful behaviour. Schools should be free to expel anyone who won't follow behaviour policy and is disruptive to the safety, wellbeing or simply the education of others.
    Your suggestions would lead to a huge number of expulsions. What would happen to all the expelled kids, though? Where would they go?
    It would only lead to expulsions for those who are a threat or danger to others, or are disrupting the education of others. They should be expelled.

    That's like saying we shouldn't arrest criminals because it would lead to a large number of arrests.

    Where should they go? Have a more secure education system for them where they can be educated without causing harm to others.
    1, "Disrupting the education of others" is a huge catch-all that would lead to mass expulsions.
    2. Your analogy with criminals isn't relevant, as we don't imprison kids.
    3. As others have mentioned, pupil referral units (PRUs) are struggling to cope with the limited business they currently have, without having to pick up thousands more expulsions.
    4. Is it really that good an idea to put all the badly-behaved kids in the same place(s) rather than spreading them out?
    It is a bloody stupid idea to spread them through the education system so they disrupt *everyone's* education. Or, where there is no proper system to restrain them on the many occasions they become violent.

    That is not controversial.

    It is also an idea of the DfE, who are chiefly known for drinking and arithmetical errors. Which doesn't inspire confidence anyway.

    We might ask ourselves other questions, perhaps. Why are there so many of them? Why is it schools always have to pick up the mess for failings that are nothing to do with them? What should we be doing to properly sort this out?
    To be provocative: I'm sure you know that there aren't actually that many highly-disruptive, or violent, kids, and quite often excellent teaching and whole-school behaviour management reduces such behaviour to a minor irritation. It's really no coincidence that the best-led schools, with great teachers, don't have too many issues with behaviour - even in 'deprived' areas. Whereas poor leadership and poor teaching maximises poor behaviour.
    Not to be provocative, merely factual - you are wrong.

    Where there are excellent whole school behaviour policies and strong leadership they have waiting lists. So they can be choosy about who they take, and when disruptive children do slip through the cracks they are very quickly 'manage moved' elsewhere (which seems to be what happened in this case, incidentally). What does tend to happen though is that as a result behaviour in schools around them gets much worse as they pick up the ones that are rejected and find they can't move them on themselves. I have seen that in both Gloucestershire and Staffordshire. In Gloucester, indeed, for many years one of the best schools in terms of educational practice was Oxstalls, but because St Peter's, Chosen Hill and the grammars quickly booted any troublemakers to them the behaviour was terrible, and so were the educational outcomes.

    I think your background is in FE and admin. An altogether different ballgame. You would, I think and hope, be shocked at the tricks schools get up to to fool inspection teams and parents.
    Don't agree with all that, particularly the bit that I'd be 'shocked' at the tricks schools get up to - though that's not universal. And I've taught in schools as well as FE - don't know where the admin comes from.

    Nevertheless, I don't want to argue with you. So - could England still turn it around against India?
    No. They can't. India by 250 runs would be my guess.

    I apologise for the mistake over your background being in FE. It was based on something you once said, which I clearly misunderstood. The admin - well, you are associated in some capacity with the DfE and OFSTED.

    I've spent nineteen years in three comps, including two inner city comps, two universities, one grammar school and two private schools trying to get the system to work. What I've seen has inspired a mixture of disillusionment, disgust and red rage that means Susan Acland-Hood, Amanda Spielman, Nick Gibb, Christopher Wormald, Dominic Cummings, Ed Balls and Sam Freedman would not be safe if they ever happened to meet me. So you're probably wise not to want to quarrel.

    I've come to the conclusion in the words of one Bob the Builder inspired meme, 'can we fix it? No, it's fucked.'

    The reasons are complex, but chronic central mismanagement is certainly one. Lack of understanding on behavioural issues is a part of that, although to be fair it's a symptom as much as a cause.
    Nineteen years? That's nothing - my sentence was 35 years. :)
  • RWP said:

    Will there be a thread on the odds for next Welsh FM? If Gething wins, all 6 of the top political roles in the UK and Ireland will be no longer held by white men (along with Sunak, Yusuf, Varadkar, O'Neill and Pengelly). In 2014 all 6 roles were held by white men (Cameron, Salmond, Jones, Robinson, McGuinness and Kenny).

    I did a thread on that in December

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/12/19/replacing-the-irreplaceable/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 38,654

    Carnyx said:

    I've actually got an idea for a thread now.

    Boris Johnson = James Francis Edward Stuart

    Nadine Dorries= Charles Edward Stuart

    Rishi Sunak = George II

    (Yes it is a work in progress)

    And who is Mary of Modena then? Not to mention Lord George Murray (poor sod).
    Yeah, it is still a work in progress.

    Mary of Modena = Liz Truss?

    Lord Murray = Now that is really tricky. Lisa Cameron?
    Or the press lady who got sacked over the parties or fibs or whatever? Called Araminta or something?

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brianna Ghey was in part targeted because of being trans. There is no point denying this given that this is the evidence which has come out at trial and which has been mentioned in the judge's summing up. We can only deal with the vulnerability of children and those who hate them for particular characteristics if we are honest about the reasons why awful crimes happen.

    Being trans made Brianna vulnerable. I do think there are serious questions to be asked about the safeguarding here of a vulnerable child. Those questions need addressing to the school. Those safeguarding questions also need to be asked in relation to the two murderers. The role of porn and violent videos also arises.

    See also my comment fpt here - https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4675284#Comment_4675284.

    No it wasn't. It was the prejudice that people like you have been peddling week in and week out against unfortunate vulnerable people like Briana. She seems to me to have been considerably more balanced than those who have seen them as freaks and opportunists and encouraged others to see them the same
    Yes, of course, this awful murder is @cyclefree’s fault for giving her measured opinions on this issue. Do you actually wake up in the morning and think “how can I be even more preposterous today”?

    Somehow, you manage it
    On the safeguarding - it appears that one of the teens was moved from another school after a nasty attack on another child.

    In the new school, they weren’t told about this. Just that she had “issues”.

    So they put her in group of those, like Briana, who were vulnerable.

    Everyone followed The Process. They put a shark in the fish tank.
    One of the grave weaknesses of our education system is we have no proper system for dealing with children who have been expelled for behaviour like this. This means it's far too difficult to get rid of them and when you do they're normally shunted somewhere else without proper processes and therefore cause more problems.

    It's partly due to cutbacks but mostly due to stupidity, viz. the idea that somehow every child should be in a mainstream school and kept there come hell or high water no matter what is going on.

    Not good for the troublemakers and not good for those around them.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    A return to the days of "special schools" for anyone who is different isn't needed, I do think its a good thing that those who are different and have special education needs or disabilities are, wherever possible, in mainstream schools.

    But awful behaviour is not a special need, its awful behaviour. Schools should be free to expel anyone who won't follow behaviour policy and is disruptive to the safety, wellbeing or simply the education of others.
    Your suggestions would lead to a huge number of expulsions. What would happen to all the expelled kids, though? Where would they go?
    It would only lead to expulsions for those who are a threat or danger to others, or are disrupting the education of others. They should be expelled.

    That's like saying we shouldn't arrest criminals because it would lead to a large number of arrests.

    Where should they go? Have a more secure education system for them where they can be educated without causing harm to others.
    1, "Disrupting the education of others" is a huge catch-all that would lead to mass expulsions.
    2. Your analogy with criminals isn't relevant, as we don't imprison kids.
    3. As others have mentioned, pupil referral units (PRUs) are struggling to cope with the limited business they currently have, without having to pick up thousands more expulsions.
    4. Is it really that good an idea to put all the badly-behaved kids in the same place(s) rather than spreading them out?
    It is a bloody stupid idea to spread them through the education system so they disrupt *everyone's* education. Or, where there is no proper system to restrain them on the many occasions they become violent.

    That is not controversial.

    It is also an idea of the DfE, who are chiefly known for drinking and arithmetical errors. Which doesn't inspire confidence anyway.

    We might ask ourselves other questions, perhaps. Why are there so many of them? Why is it schools always have to pick up the mess for failings that are nothing to do with them? What should we be doing to properly sort this out?
    To be provocative: I'm sure you know that there aren't actually that many highly-disruptive, or violent, kids, and quite often excellent teaching and whole-school behaviour management reduces such behaviour to a minor irritation. It's really no coincidence that the best-led schools, with great teachers, don't have too many issues with behaviour - even in 'deprived' areas. Whereas poor leadership and poor teaching maximises poor behaviour.
    Not to be provocative, merely factual - you are wrong.

    Where there are excellent whole school behaviour policies and strong leadership they have waiting lists. So they can be choosy about who they take, and when disruptive children do slip through the cracks they are very quickly 'manage moved' elsewhere (which seems to be what happened in this case, incidentally). What does tend to happen though is that as a result behaviour in schools around them gets much worse as they pick up the ones that are rejected and find they can't move them on themselves. I have seen that in both Gloucestershire and Staffordshire. In Gloucester, indeed, for many years one of the best schools in terms of educational practice was Oxstalls, but because St Peter's, Chosen Hill and the grammars quickly booted any troublemakers to them the behaviour was terrible, and so were the educational outcomes.

    I think your background is in FE and admin. An altogether different ballgame. You would, I think and hope, be shocked at the tricks schools get up to to fool inspection teams and parents.
    Don't agree with all that, particularly the bit that I'd be 'shocked' at the tricks schools get up to - though that's not universal. And I've taught in schools as well as FE - don't know where the admin comes from.

    Nevertheless, I don't want to argue with you. So - could England still turn it around against India?
    No. They can't. India by 250 runs would be my guess.

    I apologise for the mistake over your background being in FE. It was based on something you once said, which I clearly misunderstood. The admin - well, you are associated in some capacity with the DfE and OFSTED.

    I've spent nineteen years in three comps, including two inner city comps, two universities, one grammar school and two private schools trying to get the system to work. What I've seen has inspired a mixture of disillusionment, disgust and red rage that means Susan Acland-Hood, Amanda Spielman, Nick Gibb, Christopher Wormald, Dominic Cummings, Ed Balls and Sam Freedman would not be safe if they ever happened to meet me. So you're probably wise not to want to quarrel.

    I've come to the conclusion in the words of one Bob the Builder inspired meme, 'can we fix it? No, it's fucked.'

    The reasons are complex, but chronic central mismanagement is certainly one. Lack of understanding on behavioural issues is a part of that, although to be fair it's a symptom as much as a cause.
    Nineteen years? That's nothing - my sentence was 35 years. :)
    You were a draftsman for the UN?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    I've actually got an idea for a thread now.

    Boris Johnson = James Francis Edward Stuart

    Nadine Dorries= Charles Edward Stuart

    Rishi Sunak = George II

    (Yes it is a work in progress)

    And who is Mary of Modena then? Not to mention Lord George Murray (poor sod).
    Yeah, it is still a work in progress.

    Mary of Modena = Liz Truss?

    Lord Murray = Now that is really tricky. Lisa Cameron?
    Or the press lady who got sacked over the parties or fibs or whatever? Called Araminta or something?

    Allegra Stratton.

    Not to be confused with our own @AramintaMoonbeamQC
  • Sheffield United supporters leaving after 20 minutes at 0 - 3

    Now 0 - 4 v Villa
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,004
    edited February 3

    I've actually got an idea for a thread now.

    Boris Johnson = James Francis Edward Stuart

    Nadine Dorries= Charles Edward Stuart

    Rishi Sunak = George II

    (Yes it is a work in progress)

    I think matching political figures to historical persons of dubious relevance is a fun game, as most people get even basic history wrong, let alone more detailed stuff, and commentators are often even worse. So just have fun with it, no matter how stretched the analogy.

    Boris was Charles II - fun, profligate, fecund, restorer of his side's political fortunes, and a bit of a shit.

    Rishi is James Il - unable to cope with the political situation he is in, and attempts to push unpopular ideas too hard, despised by Parliament.

    Starmer is William III - calculating, knows how to seize a chance, and willing to compromise principles for power.

    Truss is Monmouth.
  • kle4 said:

    I've actually got an idea for a thread now.

    Boris Johnson = James Francis Edward Stuart

    Nadine Dorries= Charles Edward Stuart

    Rishi Sunak = George II

    (Yes it is a work in progress)

    I think matching political figures to historical persons of dubious relevance is a fun game, as most people get even basic history wrong, let along more detailed stuff, and commentators are often even worse. So just have fun with it, no matter how dubious.

    Boris was Charles II - fun, profligate, fecund, restorer of his side's political fortunes, and a bit of a shit.

    Rishi is James Il - unable to cope with the political situation he is in, and attempts to push unpopular ideas too hard, despised by Parliament.

    Starmer is William III - calculating, knows how to seize a chance, and willing to compromise principles for power.

    Truss is Monmouth.
    Oh that works.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243
    RWP said:

    Will there be a thread on the odds for next Welsh FM? If Gething wins, all 6 of the top political roles in the UK and Ireland will be no longer held by white men (along with Sunak, Yusuf, Varadkar, O'Neill and Pengelly). In 2014 all 6 roles were held by white men (Cameron, Salmond, Jones, Robinson, McGuinness and Kenny).

    He would be the first non-white First Minister.

    He would also be the first First Minister not to be fluent in Welsh.

    The first may tell in his favour given the electorate. The second will surely tell against him given his opponent is a native speaker and Labour are nervous about Plaid's threat to their flank.

    @TSE - as there are only two candidates I fear that the AV will not come into play.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 13,744
    ydoethur said:

    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, I am struggling to update my analogies for just how fucked the Tories are.

    The stepmom just doesn't cover it.

    The Tories are a duck. With its head trapped in a drawer, in an opium den at number 7, street 310, Phnom Penh, in about 1936

    And there’s a whole load of laughing foreign legionnaires queuing to have a go

    That’s the Tories; I believe that nicely captures their plight
    Curious thing is that I don't think there's going to be much national pleasure derived from Sacking Sunak, unlike in the duck scenario.

    There was when Blair replaced Major, and (somewhat less) when Cameron replaced Brown. Some were very pleased about the 2016 vote, and some when Johnson went.

    But I'm not getting that vibe. Sunak's got to go, they've all got to go, and come back when they have thought about what they've done and promised to be better in the future. But it's a tedious necessity.

    I imagine getting treatment from the clap clinic is much the same. Perhaps someone who had led a more colourful life can confirm.
    What's happened though is that through his actions and failures, Sunak's become a big part of that. When he first came into No. 10, he had better ratings than his party, more or less because he didn't look like one of the crackpots or liars the Tories had promoted to high-profile jobs and looked vaguely competent.

    In little over a year he's managed to destroy his reputation by tying himself to his party's crackpots to the extent that there would be a huge outburst of joy from those who want rid of the Tories. Or more a sigh of relief that 14 years of failure is finally over. But that will be something to cheer for.
    And it was totally unnecessary. He had a golden opportunity to restore calm after Covid, Johnson and Truss. But he blew it harder than an intern Clinton was paying by the orgasm.

    Whatever Sunak's strengths, he clearly has terrible judgement. On HS2, on small boats, on tax, on cabinet personnel, he's constantly made not just a poor choice but the worst imaginable choice.
    The signs were there before.

    Willing to be Dom's Sub.

    One of the first of May's ministers to come out for Boris.

    Backing Brexit before it was cool.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    Oooh. Come on WALES
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243
    kle4 said:

    I've actually got an idea for a thread now.

    Boris Johnson = James Francis Edward Stuart

    Nadine Dorries= Charles Edward Stuart

    Rishi Sunak = George II

    (Yes it is a work in progress)

    I think matching political figures to historical persons of dubious relevance is a fun game, as most people get even basic history wrong, let along more detailed stuff, and commentators are often even worse. So just have fun with it, no matter how dubious.

    Boris was Charles II - fun, profligate, fecund, restorer of his side's political fortunes, and a bit of a shit.

    Rishi is James Il - unable to cope with the political situation he is in, and attempts to push unpopular ideas too hard, despised by Parliament.

    Starmer is William III - calculating, knows how to seize a chance, and willing to compromise principles for power.

    Truss is Monmouth.
    Nah, Truss was James, Sunak is William, the one who promised much but in the end couldn't deliver, Starmer is Anne, who was boring AF but oversaw big and important changes sometimes by accident.

    But where is our King George?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,004
    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, I am struggling to update my analogies for just how fucked the Tories are.

    The stepmom just doesn't cover it.

    The Tories are a duck. With its head trapped in a drawer, in an opium den at number 7, street 310, Phnom Penh, in about 1936

    And there’s a whole load of laughing foreign legionnaires queuing to have a go

    That’s the Tories; I believe that nicely captures their plight
    Curious thing is that I don't think there's going to be much national pleasure derived from Sacking Sunak, unlike in the duck scenario.

    There was when Blair replaced Major, and (somewhat less) when Cameron replaced Brown. Some were very pleased about the 2016 vote, and some when Johnson went.

    But I'm not getting that vibe. Sunak's got to go, they've all got to go, and come back when they have thought about what they've done and promised to be better in the future. But it's a tedious necessity.

    I imagine getting treatment from the clap clinic is much the same. Perhaps someone who had led a more colourful life can confirm.
    What's happened though is that through his actions and failures, Sunak's become a big part of that. When he first came into No. 10, he had better ratings than his party, more or less because he didn't look like one of the crackpots or liars the Tories had promoted to high-profile jobs and looked vaguely competent.

    In little over a year he's managed to destroy his reputation by tying himself to his party's crackpots to the extent that there would be a huge outburst of joy from those who want rid of the Tories. Or more a sigh of relief that 14 years of failure is finally over. But that will be something to cheer for.
    It's not the whole story that he's tied himself to the crackpots though. Things like bringing in Cameron hardly appeals to that wing of the party. Indeed, that side of the party seems just as unhappy with him as they ever were, or more so, without improving the party's standing with voters on the other end.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,399
    ydoethur said:

    But where is our King George?

    Still at school
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,532
    Carnyx said:

    I've actually got an idea for a thread now.

    Boris Johnson = James Francis Edward Stuart

    Nadine Dorries= Charles Edward Stuart

    Rishi Sunak = George II

    (Yes it is a work in progress)

    And who is Mary of Modena then? Not to mention Lord George Murray (poor sod).
    And the Butcher?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    It would be effing hilarious if Scotland contrive to lose this after having a 27 point lead

    I don’t think they will but a man can dream
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,243
    edited February 3
    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    But where is our King George?

    Still at school
    One regulated by OFSTED, or a private school?

    If the first, he's fucked (possibly by a random inspector).

    If the second, current experience suggests the country's fucked.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    One more try and Wales will BELIEVE
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    Omg!!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,004
    This is why I like Rugby - you can totally get into a team's head, they fall to bits, and suddenly you can turn things around in an instant. The impact of the team as a whole losing their discipline and shape is much more apparent than in football.

    Of course, the downside is its harder for a poor team to compete with a bit of luck and effort.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    Hard to believe this is the same Wales team from 39 minutes ago. Bravo
  • Can we accept yet that on the current polling, SKS is looking very much like a Tony Blair?

    Christ no.

    Just look at the respective Ipsos leader ratings at this point in the electoral cycle.

    I would have hoped you would have learned from your Corbyn experience.
    I have much less affinity for SKS than I ever did for Jeremy Corbyn. The poll you posted in the opener makes the point that SKS is doing identically to Tony Blair at this point, hence my "looking very much like a Tony Blair".

    Fair point on the approval ratings but that wasn't what I was referring to.

    Don't make a post if you don't want people to respond to it with questions.
    It was Mike's post.

    You said 'SKS is looking very much like a Tony Blair', a better comparator would have been Labour in 2024 are doing as well as Labour in 1996.
    Yes that is true but since SKS is the leader of Labour, you must be able to give him some credit, surely?
  • 26 - 27 with 11 minutes left
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    Mindfuck
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 42,838
    darkage said:

    On the subject of computer/data management systems, I have been working in the public sector in an operational delivery role and found that the best systems are those that are effectively unchanged since the first wave of computerisation 30 years ago (the 'legacy' systems). I've worked with two really poor 'modernised' systems over the last decade that have promised the world but just lost masses of data, causing no end of problems. When I was in a government office we had a version of Horizon (not sure if it is linked to the post office situation) which was absolutely fine, the organisation I worked for saw sense and never pursued its various trials of alternative systems, much to the annoyance of the endless stream of change consultants inflicted upon us. The industry I work in seems to fundamentally work in email, word documents and PDF's, saved on shared drives; a system that has existed unchanged for at least 25 years.

    That's because of the management and policies, not the technology.

    The process.

    In spaceflight, similar processes led to the belief that you couldn't develop anything new. Too many projects slowly failed, for more and more money. Maybe buy magic engines from dusty sheds in Russia - engines the Russians had forgotten to build. So the SLS staggered to a completion data. $100 million dollars per RS-25 rocket engine. Not to build them. But to warm over Space Shuttle engines. And make them throw away, not reusable.

    Just by not following the failed process, a company is building modern engines, of pretty much equivalent power, for less than $1m a pop. They haven't quite got to their goal of $250K per engine, but are about half way there.

    Nicely summed up by a supporter of the old way of doing things - "The traditional guys are often late. The 'Commercial' guys are often late, but cost ten times less. But they are still late - what have I gained?"

    Seriously, someone actually said that.

    I am working in a bank where we are tearing through the old systems in Middle Office. Our replacements are simpler and easier to understand. Full of rec's against each other and external systems. With a fully documented specification that actually matches the code *and* the business requirements.

    We are smashing rice bowls, I suppose. But management are backing us. Because we got rid of the legacy systems that were slowly failing and never looked back from there.
  • kle4 said:

    This is why I like Rugby - you can totally get into a team's head, they fall to bits, and suddenly you can turn things around in an instant. The impact of the team as a whole losing their discipline and shape is much more apparent than in football.

    Of course, the downside is its harder for a poor team to compete with a bit of luck and effort.

    Same happens in cricket.

    It is why Adelaide 2006 is seared on my brain for life.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 44,917
    One of the great comebacks of all time. IF they do it
This discussion has been closed.