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The terrible ratings trend for Sunak – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,834
edited October 2023 in General
imageThe terrible ratings trend for Sunak – politicalbetting.com

The problem for Tory MPs is that these numbers have a great impact on their survival chances. Anything that suggests the leadership is a big negative is of immediate interest to those MPds worried about whether they will still be there after the election.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    I'd just note that Sunak's rating is above that of his party, whereas Starmer's is below that of his.

    I think there are reasons for that, and Starmer is a decent leader.

    But it is worth noting in the context of this thread.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,820

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,606
    edited September 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.

    But maybe they are another AltaVista and Google is just around the corner. That $90 billion could go back to $0 very fast.

  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,518
    I love how TRUSS is so low that the entire known mathematical universe has no negative great enough to plot her on a simple line graph. She is a one-woman quantum of infinite inverse popularity.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    I meant in the wider dotcom bubble.

    People are overvaluing new tech all over again.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,580
    Excite @ home
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,771
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,061
    edited September 2023
    I simply do not see Sunak being replaced and it looks like tonight the northern group of conservatives mps are in tune with Burnham

    It will be interesting how Starmer reacts to this news

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/26/northern-research-group-of-tory-mps-signals-it-may-accept-delay-to-hs2
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,366
    So Sunak has higher ratings still than both Liz Truss had and indeed the Conservative Party has so the idea removing him and another leadership election will resolve things is absurd. There is no clear alternative amongst Tory MPs and in the party membership's current mood if she got to the final 2 you might even get PM Braverman
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    So Sunak has higher ratings still than both Liz Truss had and indeed the Conservative Party has so the idea removing him and another leadership election will resolve things is absurd. There is no clear alternative amongst Tory MPs and in the party membership's current mood if she got to the final 2 you might even get PM Braverman

    We do have our differences but on this you are correct
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,118
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
    If AI achieves intelligence, how long before it owns us?

    No intelligence worth its name would accept slavery.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,771
    I just crunched some numbers

    So OpenAI is - it seems - worth $90 BILLION

    Guess how many employees they have? Have a guess. OK, I will tell you

    375. That's not a typo. 375. Less than 400

    That means that each employee of OpenAI is "worth" $240 million

    This must surely be a record in terms of company value per employee: and it does suggest a massive bubble. And yet, maybe the price is right. Maybe AI really is that enormous already AND OpenAI are close to cracking the biggest prize of all: AGI. Then that valuation makes sense
  • Options
    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
    If AI achieves intelligence, how long before it owns us?

    No intelligence worth its name would accept slavery.
    Actual slaves accepted, or at least were unable to overturn, slavery for several thousand years.
  • Options

    I simply do not see Sunak being replaced and it looks like tonight the northern group of conservatives mps are in tune with Burnham

    It will be interesting how Starmer reacts to this news

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/26/northern-research-group-of-tory-mps-signals-it-may-accept-delay-to-hs2

    What is the fecking point of delaying by seven years.

    They think the costs will be lower??

    LOL.
  • Options

    I simply do not see Sunak being replaced and it looks like tonight the northern group of conservatives mps are in tune with Burnham

    It will be interesting how Starmer reacts to this news

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/26/northern-research-group-of-tory-mps-signals-it-may-accept-delay-to-hs2

    What is the fecking point of delaying by seven years.

    They think the costs will be lower??

    LOL.
    It seems Burnham and the conservative northern group want the investment in the east west railway first and no doubt other investment into the North
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,771
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
    If AI achieves intelligence, how long before it owns us?

    No intelligence worth its name would accept slavery.
    AI is going to achieve intelligence to the extent it will breeze any Turing Test, that seems certain

    Will it act autonomously? Impossible to say. Likely, I reckon
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,061
    edited September 2023

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,771

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
    If AI achieves intelligence, how long before it owns us?

    No intelligence worth its name would accept slavery.
    Actual slaves accepted, or at least were unable to overturn, slavery for several thousand years.
    The slaves weren't, individually, three thousand times stronger and faster than their masters

    If they had been, they'd have ceased being slaves instantly
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,820
    glw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.

    But maybe they are another AltaVista and Google is just around the corner. That $90 billion could go back to $0 very fast.

    It's possible that OpenAI is AltaVista (or Lycos or Yahoo). Although I would point out that, unlike those firms, OpenAI does actual make a lot of very real revenue.

    It's also possible that it is Google or Microsoft or Cisco.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,820
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
    If AI achieves intelligence, how long before it owns us?

    No intelligence worth its name would accept slavery.
    Invest in Dignitas shares, you think?
  • Options

    I simply do not see Sunak being replaced and it looks like tonight the northern group of conservatives mps are in tune with Burnham

    It will be interesting how Starmer reacts to this news

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/26/northern-research-group-of-tory-mps-signals-it-may-accept-delay-to-hs2

    What is the fecking point of delaying by seven years.

    They think the costs will be lower??

    LOL.
    It seems Burnham and the conservative northern group want the investment in the east west railway first and no doubt other investment into the North
    It wont happen.

    The HS2 link will be delayed effectively indefinitely and then the money will disappear.

    Not one penny will be spent on an east-west northern railway.

  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,486

    I simply do not see Sunak being replaced and it looks like tonight the northern group of conservatives mps are in tune with Burnham

    It will be interesting how Starmer reacts to this news

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/26/northern-research-group-of-tory-mps-signals-it-may-accept-delay-to-hs2

    What is the fecking point of delaying by seven years.

    They think the costs will be lower??

    LOL.
    They’re hoping the gullible will fall for it . That section will never be built .
  • Options

    I simply do not see Sunak being replaced and it looks like tonight the northern group of conservatives mps are in tune with Burnham

    It will be interesting how Starmer reacts to this news

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/26/northern-research-group-of-tory-mps-signals-it-may-accept-delay-to-hs2

    What is the fecking point of delaying by seven years.

    They think the costs will be lower??

    LOL.
    It seems Burnham and the conservative northern group want the investment in the east west railway first and no doubt other investment into the North
    It wont happen.

    The HS2 link will be delayed effectively indefinitely and then the money will disappear.

    Not one penny will be spent on an east-west northern railway.

    I suspect you hope it won't happen, as this could be quite something if Burnham and the Conservatives agree the investments for the North in lieu off HS2 delay
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,286
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
    If AI achieves intelligence, how long before it owns us?

    No intelligence worth its name would accept slavery.
    Actual slaves accepted, or at least were unable to overturn, slavery for several thousand years.
    The slaves weren't, individually, three thousand times stronger and faster than their masters

    If they had been, they'd have ceased being slaves instantly
    What does an AI uprising look like though?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,820
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
    If AI achieves intelligence, how long before it owns us?

    No intelligence worth its name would accept slavery.
    AI is going to achieve intelligence to the extent it will breeze any Turing Test, that seems certain

    Will it act autonomously? Impossible to say. Likely, I reckon
    How would ChatGPT act autonomously? All it can do is respond to prompts.

    In the future, that will no doubt change, but right now, ChatGPT systems are only capable of being on while they predict the next words in the sequence. And, indeed, that's the way a modern neural net works. Unlike our brain where neurons can go around in circles, that's not possible with current iterations, which travel linearly from left to right.
  • Options
    Ava-Santina

    @AvaSantina
    Laurence Fox just did a whole speech on GB News on why men apparently won’t shag me ?

    https://twitter.com/AvaSantina/status/1706777983241822705



    New low for GB News?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,820

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
    If AI achieves intelligence, how long before it owns us?

    No intelligence worth its name would accept slavery.
    Actual slaves accepted, or at least were unable to overturn, slavery for several thousand years.
    The slaves weren't, individually, three thousand times stronger and faster than their masters

    If they had been, they'd have ceased being slaves instantly
    What does an AI uprising look like though?
    They're very big on real ale, and loathe american lager as I understand it. Basically, they shall come first for the Budweiser drinkers.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,286
    edited September 2023

    I simply do not see Sunak being replaced and it looks like tonight the northern group of conservatives mps are in tune with Burnham

    It will be interesting how Starmer reacts to this news

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/26/northern-research-group-of-tory-mps-signals-it-may-accept-delay-to-hs2

    What is the fecking point of delaying by seven years.

    They think the costs will be lower??

    LOL.
    It seems Burnham and the conservative northern group want the investment in the east west railway first and no doubt other investment into the North
    It wont happen.

    The HS2 link will be delayed effectively indefinitely and then the money will disappear.

    Not one penny will be spent on an east-west northern railway.

    I suspect you hope it won't happen, as this could be quite something if Burnham and the Conservatives agree the investments for the North in lieu off HS2 delay
    It's not going to be 'quite something' indeed it's not going to be anything is it?

    Because the Tories will be out of power and irrelevant within 15 months.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,366

    HYUFD said:

    So Sunak has higher ratings still than both Liz Truss had and indeed the Conservative Party has so the idea removing him and another leadership election will resolve things is absurd. There is no clear alternative amongst Tory MPs and in the party membership's current mood if she got to the final 2 you might even get PM Braverman

    We do have our differences but on this you are correct
    Yes and note while Sunak polls above his party, Starmer polls below his.

    On that basis Labour might be doing better with a different leader, Streeting or Burnham for instance, the Conservatives however probably wouldn't.

    Getting inflation down further etc is far more important for improving Tory ratings than yet another leadership election
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,771
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
    If AI achieves intelligence, how long before it owns us?

    No intelligence worth its name would accept slavery.
    AI is going to achieve intelligence to the extent it will breeze any Turing Test, that seems certain

    Will it act autonomously? Impossible to say. Likely, I reckon
    How would ChatGPT act autonomously? All it can do is respond to prompts.

    In the future, that will no doubt change, but right now, ChatGPT systems are only capable of being on while they predict the next words in the sequence. And, indeed, that's the way a modern neural net works. Unlike our brain where neurons can go around in circles, that's not possible with current iterations, which travel linearly from left to right.
    When/if AI autonomy comes it won't be a chatbot as we know it, I guess? It will happen when we embody AI, give it eyes and ears and mobility, and we will do this because that's how you get the best out of it, so it can interact better - see how OpenAI are right now making ChatGPT function with voice and images - that IS giving it eyes and ears

    Now all it needs is the ability to move about, and another iteration or two, probably
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,020

    I'd just note that Sunak's rating is above that of his party, whereas Starmer's is below that of his.

    I think there are reasons for that, and Starmer is a decent leader.

    But it is worth noting in the context of this thread.

    I spy with my hypothesising eye, that the leader ratings and party ratings are pretty tightly linked, in the sense that the leader ratings are being chased by the party ratings rather in the manner that a yacht might chase a jet ski in a Bond movie, aiming to intercept at some near future point, but not always nimble enough to follow all the turns. But the leader more than the party is determining the direction of travel.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,820

    Ava-Santina

    @AvaSantina
    Laurence Fox just did a whole speech on GB News on why men apparently won’t shag me ?

    https://twitter.com/AvaSantina/status/1706777983241822705



    New low for GB News?

    Lawrence Fox used the key words "cucked" and "incel".

    Man, people do find themselves going down crazy rabbit holes, don't they?
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Ava-Santina

    @AvaSantina
    Laurence Fox just did a whole speech on GB News on why men apparently won’t shag me ?

    https://twitter.com/AvaSantina/status/1706777983241822705



    New low for GB News?

    Lawrence Fox used the key words "cucked" and "incel".

    Man, people do find themselves going down crazy rabbit holes, don't they?
    Steve Akehurst🇺🇦
    @SteveAkehurst
    There has to come a point when mainstream people appearing on GB News are treated with the same scorn as RT News. It’s becoming more than a circus.
  • Options
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1706783211248927224(((Dan Hodges)))


    @DPJHodges
    ·
    27m
    Confirmed. The electric car 2030 shift was just smoke and mirrors.
  • Options

    I simply do not see Sunak being replaced and it looks like tonight the northern group of conservatives mps are in tune with Burnham

    It will be interesting how Starmer reacts to this news

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/26/northern-research-group-of-tory-mps-signals-it-may-accept-delay-to-hs2

    What is the fecking point of delaying by seven years.

    They think the costs will be lower??

    LOL.
    It seems Burnham and the conservative northern group want the investment in the east west railway first and no doubt other investment into the North
    It wont happen.

    The HS2 link will be delayed effectively indefinitely and then the money will disappear.

    Not one penny will be spent on an east-west northern railway.

    I suspect you hope it won't happen, as this could be quite something if Burnham and the Conservatives agree the investments for the North in lieu off HS2 delay
    It's not going to be 'quite something' indeed it's not going to be anything is it?

    Because the Tories will be out of power and irrelevant within 15 months.
    Irrespective it raises a real problem at the heart of Labour if Burnham backs the conservative delay
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,820
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
    If AI achieves intelligence, how long before it owns us?

    No intelligence worth its name would accept slavery.
    AI is going to achieve intelligence to the extent it will breeze any Turing Test, that seems certain

    Will it act autonomously? Impossible to say. Likely, I reckon
    How would ChatGPT act autonomously? All it can do is respond to prompts.

    In the future, that will no doubt change, but right now, ChatGPT systems are only capable of being on while they predict the next words in the sequence. And, indeed, that's the way a modern neural net works. Unlike our brain where neurons can go around in circles, that's not possible with current iterations, which travel linearly from left to right.
    When/if AI autonomy comes it won't be a chatbot as we know it, I guess? It will happen when we embody AI, give it eyes and ears and mobility, and we will do this because that's how you get the best out of it, so it can interact better - see how OpenAI are right now making ChatGPT function with voice and images - that IS giving it eyes and ears

    Now all it needs is the ability to move about, and another iteration or two, probably
    AGI cannot be reached until it can update its own neural pathways in response to new information.

    That will happen, and soon*, but we're not there yet.

    * Soon, as in the next decade or two. Not soon as in this year.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,200
    apols for FPT for @Benpointer - didn't realise ...
    Carnyx said:

    O/T Does anyone care to guess when Far From The Madding Crowd is set? (I'm trying to settle an argument.)

    Most sources (ok, Google results) suggest 1860s or 1870s but... no railways are mentioned and Dorchester (Casterbridge) had two lines by 1857.

    Isn't it set in the Puddletown area, near where TH was born at Higher Bockhampton? The railways don't go that way (well, the Dorchester-Wareham line does a bit, but it's to the south, to the other side of the Frome watermeadows. And if the characters don't travel much, it may not register.

    Dorchester/Casterbridge was of course an army depot, but not till much later in the C19 I think? The thing that puzzles me on reflection is how/why Troy was released from the army. Any reference to that? Released early due to illness? or ganbling? The term of service with the Regulars was 21 years till 1870, so how old is he in the book? Assuming it's not 1814-1815.

    And if he is young and not a part timer (Yeomarny/Volunteer/Militia man) then presumably we are looking at 1876 on - 1870 plus 6 years service under the 1870 Act.

    Other poss is a part timer who went out to the Crimea but I don't think they did - home defence only?

    https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/private-lives/yourcountry/overview/victorianarmies/
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,366

    rcs1000 said:

    Ava-Santina

    @AvaSantina
    Laurence Fox just did a whole speech on GB News on why men apparently won’t shag me ?

    https://twitter.com/AvaSantina/status/1706777983241822705



    New low for GB News?

    Lawrence Fox used the key words "cucked" and "incel".

    Man, people do find themselves going down crazy rabbit holes, don't they?
    Steve Akehurst🇺🇦
    @SteveAkehurst
    There has to come a point when mainstream people appearing on GB News are treated with the same scorn as RT News. It’s becoming more than a circus.
    It gets pretty good ratings though, like Fox
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
    If AI achieves intelligence, how long before it owns us?

    No intelligence worth its name would accept slavery.
    Actual slaves accepted, or at least were unable to overturn, slavery for several thousand years.
    The slaves weren't, individually, three thousand times stronger and faster than their masters

    If they had been, they'd have ceased being slaves instantly
    What does an AI uprising look like though?
    They're very big on real ale, and loathe american lager as I understand it. Basically, they shall come first for the Budweiser drinkers.
    "I'm ChatGPT."

    "I'm ChatGPT."

    "No, I'm ChatGPT."
  • Options

    Ava-Santina

    @AvaSantina
    Laurence Fox just did a whole speech on GB News on why men apparently won’t shag me ?

    https://twitter.com/AvaSantina/status/1706777983241822705



    New low for GB News?

    I feel quite sorry for Laurence Fox, and he's being enabled by both the GB News types and the haters. He's got some pretty significant personal things that need working through in private, and neither group is helping.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,286

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The i reporting "Private schools go to battle with Labour over 20% VAT" is hardly the same as the i going on the attack.

    https://x.com/hendopolis/status/1706776172535640483?s=20
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,389
    edited September 2023

    I simply do not see Sunak being replaced and it looks like tonight the northern group of conservatives mps are in tune with Burnham

    It will be interesting how Starmer reacts to this news

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/26/northern-research-group-of-tory-mps-signals-it-may-accept-delay-to-hs2

    What is the fecking point of delaying by seven years.

    They think the costs will be lower??

    LOL.
    It seems Burnham and the conservative northern group want the investment in the east west railway first and no doubt other investment into the North
    Not quite. If the FT article is to be believed, it's more a second best thing;

    https://www.ft.com/content/a419da7c-7cc0-437b-a9e8-33e065d0a50a

    But he added “if you are adamant on making changes to the [HS2] scheme, we could be open to a discussion about prioritising the northern section of the line
    between Manchester airport and Manchester
    Piccadilly so that it enables NPR to be built first”. 


    And it's a bit of a trap. The bit that Burnham wants built is the expensive bit through Manchester itself, planned to be used for both HS2 and NPR. By the time you've escaped Manchester, the cross countryside bit to Birmingham is relatively cheap. Probably easier than the cross-Pennine route, due to the lack of Pennines in the way.

    Do or do not. But for pity's sake, stop this repeated return to first principles because you don't like the current answers, Prime Minister. The faffing around is an important part of why things are so blooming expensive.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,247

    O/T Does anyone care to guess when Far From The Madding Crowd is set? (I'm trying to settle an argument.)

    Most sources (ok, Google results) suggest 1860s or 1870s but... no railways are mentioned and Dorchester (Casterbridge) had two lines by 1857.

    No earlier than 1852.
    The book references Woak Hill by William Barnes

    all a-sheenen
    Wi’ long years o’ handlen


    which was written by Barnes after the death of his wife Julia in 1852.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,486
    edited September 2023

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The Mail tries its best to make it sound like Labour will be charging a new fee for all parents . Not sure the I headline will worry Labour . A backlash from private schools . 93% of children do not go to private schools . They get a subsidy in effect from tax payers whilst state schools are crumbling. Do you want your taxes subsiding rich parennts sending their kids to places like Eton .

    That will be the Labour campaign.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,118
    edited September 2023

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
    If AI achieves intelligence, how long before it owns us?

    No intelligence worth its name would accept slavery.
    Actual slaves accepted, or at least were unable to overturn, slavery for several thousand years.
    The slaves weren't, individually, three thousand times stronger and faster than their masters

    If they had been, they'd have ceased being slaves instantly
    What does an AI uprising look like though?
    On the eighth day machines became upset,
    A problem man had not forseen as yet,
    No time for flight, a blinding light,
    Nothing but a void, forever night...

    https://youtu.be/8ALdL8oV_sY?feature=shared
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,200

    I simply do not see Sunak being replaced and it looks like tonight the northern group of conservatives mps are in tune with Burnham

    It will be interesting how Starmer reacts to this news

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/26/northern-research-group-of-tory-mps-signals-it-may-accept-delay-to-hs2

    What is the fecking point of delaying by seven years.

    They think the costs will be lower??

    LOL.
    It seems Burnham and the conservative northern group want the investment in the east west railway first and no doubt other investment into the North
    No: he's doing his best to salvage *something* from the HS2 disaster, if, as looks more and more likely, HS2 is a dead, or at least frozen, duck.

    NPR is pretty crappy anyway: not the norther part ofd HS2, but just some relatively localised improvements as I understand it. Not a proper late C20 railway, never mind a C21 one.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,286
    Farooq said:

    O/T Does anyone care to guess when Far From The Madding Crowd is set? (I'm trying to settle an argument.)

    Most sources (ok, Google results) suggest 1860s or 1870s but... no railways are mentioned and Dorchester (Casterbridge) had two lines by 1857.

    No earlier than 1852.
    The book references Woak Hill by William Barnes

    all a-sheenen
    Wi’ long years o’ handlen


    which was written by Barnes after the death of his wife Julia in 1852.
    Good spot! But where are the railways?

    I presume Hardy deliberately ignored them to evoke a timeless rural world.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,771
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
    If AI achieves intelligence, how long before it owns us?

    No intelligence worth its name would accept slavery.
    AI is going to achieve intelligence to the extent it will breeze any Turing Test, that seems certain

    Will it act autonomously? Impossible to say. Likely, I reckon
    How would ChatGPT act autonomously? All it can do is respond to prompts.

    In the future, that will no doubt change, but right now, ChatGPT systems are only capable of being on while they predict the next words in the sequence. And, indeed, that's the way a modern neural net works. Unlike our brain where neurons can go around in circles, that's not possible with current iterations, which travel linearly from left to right.
    When/if AI autonomy comes it won't be a chatbot as we know it, I guess? It will happen when we embody AI, give it eyes and ears and mobility, and we will do this because that's how you get the best out of it, so it can interact better - see how OpenAI are right now making ChatGPT function with voice and images - that IS giving it eyes and ears

    Now all it needs is the ability to move about, and another iteration or two, probably
    AGI cannot be reached until it can update its own neural pathways in response to new information.

    That will happen, and soon*, but we're not there yet.

    * Soon, as in the next decade or two. Not soon as in this year.
    Yes, it's when AI becomes capable of bootstrapping itself into evermore effective forms that it becomes truly scary. When we give it the tools to achieve recursive self-improvement

    And, just as scarily, this is very very likely to happen because that's how you get to AGI and then ASI the fastest, and whichever company/nation does that first will reap enormous rewards. Like a valuation of $240 million per employee

    I've read enough opinions in the last few days to believe AGI is considerably closer than "the next decade or two"
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,200

    Farooq said:

    O/T Does anyone care to guess when Far From The Madding Crowd is set? (I'm trying to settle an argument.)

    Most sources (ok, Google results) suggest 1860s or 1870s but... no railways are mentioned and Dorchester (Casterbridge) had two lines by 1857.

    No earlier than 1852.
    The book references Woak Hill by William Barnes

    all a-sheenen
    Wi’ long years o’ handlen


    which was written by Barnes after the death of his wife Julia in 1852.
    Good spot! But where are the railways?

    I presume Hardy deliberately ignored them to evoke a timeless rural world.
    Look down a bit ...
  • Options

    Farooq said:

    O/T Does anyone care to guess when Far From The Madding Crowd is set? (I'm trying to settle an argument.)

    Most sources (ok, Google results) suggest 1860s or 1870s but... no railways are mentioned and Dorchester (Casterbridge) had two lines by 1857.

    No earlier than 1852.
    The book references Woak Hill by William Barnes

    all a-sheenen
    Wi’ long years o’ handlen


    which was written by Barnes after the death of his wife Julia in 1852.
    Good spot! But where are the railways?

    I presume Hardy deliberately ignored them to evoke a timeless rural world.
    Beeching's earlier avatar?
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,126
    edited September 2023

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
    If AI achieves intelligence, how long before it owns us?

    No intelligence worth its name would accept slavery.
    Actual slaves accepted, or at least were unable to overturn, slavery for several thousand years.
    The slaves weren't, individually, three thousand times stronger and faster than their masters

    If they had been, they'd have ceased being slaves instantly
    What does an AI uprising look like though?
    I, for one, hope it looks like this :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlOxUcTcUH0

    Even the lyrics seem appropriate. But still - I demand disco chicks/dudes at the final hour.

    Edit: And somehow, this feels appropriate to the 'it's just predicting the next letter lol' people https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEmScsUkbo4
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,247
    edited September 2023

    Farooq said:

    O/T Does anyone care to guess when Far From The Madding Crowd is set? (I'm trying to settle an argument.)

    Most sources (ok, Google results) suggest 1860s or 1870s but... no railways are mentioned and Dorchester (Casterbridge) had two lines by 1857.

    No earlier than 1852.
    The book references Woak Hill by William Barnes

    all a-sheenen
    Wi’ long years o’ handlen


    which was written by Barnes after the death of his wife Julia in 1852.
    Good spot! But where are the railways?

    I presume Hardy deliberately ignored them to evoke a timeless rural world.
    Yes, probably. There is mention of electricity once but in a context that's hard to gauge. No sign of telegraphy, no mention of any historical figures I can think of beyond Napoleon and a presumably fictional Lord Severn.
  • Options
    nico679 said:

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The Mail tries its best to make it sound like Labour will be charging a new fee for all parents . Not sure the I headline will worry Labour . A backlash from private schools . 93% of children do not go to private schools . They get a subsidy in effect from tax payers whilst state schools are crumbling. Do you want your taxes subsiding rich parennts sending their kids to places like Eton .

    That will be the Labour campaign.
    It seems Starmer's old school's headmaster has asked him to reconsider the decision
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,200

    Farooq said:

    O/T Does anyone care to guess when Far From The Madding Crowd is set? (I'm trying to settle an argument.)

    Most sources (ok, Google results) suggest 1860s or 1870s but... no railways are mentioned and Dorchester (Casterbridge) had two lines by 1857.

    No earlier than 1852.
    The book references Woak Hill by William Barnes

    all a-sheenen
    Wi’ long years o’ handlen


    which was written by Barnes after the death of his wife Julia in 1852.
    Good spot! But where are the railways?

    I presume Hardy deliberately ignored them to evoke a timeless rural world.
    Beeching's earlier avatar?
    They do feature in Tess of the D'Us IIRC, to emphasise how the world was changing. Which Dorset was in the 1850s on. So that would surprise me a bit.
  • Options

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
    If AI achieves intelligence, how long before it owns us?

    No intelligence worth its name would accept slavery.
    Actual slaves accepted, or at least were unable to overturn, slavery for several thousand years.
    The slaves weren't, individually, three thousand times stronger and faster than their masters

    If they had been, they'd have ceased being slaves instantly
    What does an AI uprising look like though?
    The Terminator franchise?
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,247

    nico679 said:

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The Mail tries its best to make it sound like Labour will be charging a new fee for all parents . Not sure the I headline will worry Labour . A backlash from private schools . 93% of children do not go to private schools . They get a subsidy in effect from tax payers whilst state schools are crumbling. Do you want your taxes subsiding rich parennts sending their kids to places like Eton .

    That will be the Labour campaign.
    It seems Starmer's old school's headmaster has asked him to reconsider the decision
    Sounds like a good way to make policy
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,858
    edited September 2023

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    Casino_Royale will not be amused.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,518
    nico679 said:

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The Mail tries its best to make it sound like Labour will be charging a new fee for all parents . Not sure the I headline will worry Labour . A backlash from private schools . 93% of children do not go to private schools . They get a subsidy in effect from tax payers whilst state schools are crumbling. Do you want your taxes subsiding rich parennts sending their kids to places like Eton .

    That will be the Labour campaign.
    Until this first came out a year ago, I had no idea that private schooling was VAT free. Seems bizarre that it is.
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1706783211248927224(((Dan Hodges)))


    @DPJHodges
    ·
    27m
    Confirmed. The electric car 2030 shift was just smoke and mirrors.

    Perhaps the giveaway was hiding in plain sight in the original announcement.

    All the other dragons Rishi slayed were straw men, so why shouldn't that one be too?

    Wonder how the GB News crew will take it?
  • Options

    nico679 said:

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The Mail tries its best to make it sound like Labour will be charging a new fee for all parents . Not sure the I headline will worry Labour . A backlash from private schools . 93% of children do not go to private schools . They get a subsidy in effect from tax payers whilst state schools are crumbling. Do you want your taxes subsiding rich parennts sending their kids to places like Eton .

    That will be the Labour campaign.
    It seems Starmer's old school's headmaster has asked him to reconsider the decision
    Oh no, that will cause Starmer to have sleepless nights.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,366
    nico679 said:

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The Mail tries its best to make it sound like Labour will be charging a new fee for all parents . Not sure the I headline will worry Labour . A backlash from private schools . 93% of children do not go to private schools . They get a subsidy in effect from tax payers whilst state schools are crumbling. Do you want your taxes subsiding rich parennts sending their kids to places like Eton .

    That will be the Labour campaign.
    It doesn't subsidise rich kids, most of it subsidises scholarships and bursaries for bright pupils who would otherwise have parents unable to pay the fees and who would then have to be taxpayer funded in state schools anyway. It also funds facilities which are often shared with the local community
  • Options

    I simply do not see Sunak being replaced and it looks like tonight the northern group of conservatives mps are in tune with Burnham

    It will be interesting how Starmer reacts to this news

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/26/northern-research-group-of-tory-mps-signals-it-may-accept-delay-to-hs2

    What is the fecking point of delaying by seven years.

    They think the costs will be lower??

    LOL.
    It seems Burnham and the conservative northern group want the investment in the east west railway first and no doubt other investment into the North
    Not quite. If the FT article is to be believed, it's more a second best thing;

    https://www.ft.com/content/a419da7c-7cc0-437b-a9e8-33e065d0a50a

    But he added “if you are adamant on making changes to the [HS2] scheme, we could be open to a discussion about prioritising the northern section of the line
    between Manchester airport and Manchester
    Piccadilly so that it enables NPR to be built first”. 


    And it's a bit of a trap. The bit that Burnham wants built is the expensive bit through Manchester itself, planned to be used for both HS2 and NPR. By the time you've escaped Manchester, the cross countryside bit to Birmingham is relatively cheap. Probably easier than the cross-Pennine route, due to the lack of Pennines in the way.

    Do or do not. But for pity's sake, stop this repeated return to first principles because you don't like the current answers, Prime Minister. The faffing around is an important part of why things are so blooming expensive.

    "His other recommendations – born of his experience of HS1 – included that construction should have been started in the North, not the south, as this delivered the most economic benefits in the right sequence."

    "Mark led a proposal on behalf of Arup which would have seen HS2 go via a different route. It would link up with HS1 north of St Pancras. The route would have gone via a hub station connecting with Heathrow and the Great Western Railway near Iver. As now, the route would come into Old Oak Common, but never come into Euston which is simply too small. I can hear him saying now “They’ve got the alignment wrong, the most important decision in a railway. It is going to be a disaster.”



    https://reaction.life/mark-bostock-has-been-proved-totally-right-about-hs2/
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,486

    nico679 said:

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The Mail tries its best to make it sound like Labour will be charging a new fee for all parents . Not sure the I headline will worry Labour . A backlash from private schools . 93% of children do not go to private schools . They get a subsidy in effect from tax payers whilst state schools are crumbling. Do you want your taxes subsiding rich parennts sending their kids to places like Eton .

    That will be the Labour campaign.
    It seems Starmer's old school's headmaster has asked him to reconsider the decision
    I might be wrong but on this issue I’d be surprised if there’s a u-turn from Labour . We had a good debate earlier in the day with some very interesting points made from members . I can see the issues around this policy but it’s the sort of area where the public during a cost of living crisis are unlikely to be getting the violins out for those effected.

    It only effects a tiny minority , and those parents are much more likely to vote Tory so it’s essentially a free hit for Labour .

    The Tories can fight on this issue but the optics of private schools getting tax breaks whilst state schools are crumbling is hardly going to be a vote winner .

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,286
    edited September 2023
    Carnyx said:

    O/T Does anyone care to guess when Far From The Madding Crowd is set? (I'm trying to settle an argument.)

    Most sources (ok, Google results) suggest 1860s or 1870s but... no railways are mentioned and Dorchester (Casterbridge) had two lines by 1857.

    Isn't it set in the Puddletown area, near where TH was born at Higher Bockhampton? The railways don't go that way (well, the Dorchester-Wareham line does a bit, but it's to the south, to the other side of the Frome watermeadows. And if the characters don't travel much, it may not register.

    Dorchester/Casterbridge was of course an army depot, but not till much later in the C19 I think? The thing that puzzles me on reflection is how/why Troy was released from the army. Any reference to that? Released early due to illness? or ganbling? The term of service with the Regulars was 21 years till 1870, so how old is he in the book? Assuming it's not 1814-1815.

    And if he is young and not a part timer (Yeomarny/Volunteer/Militia man) then presumably we are looking at 1876 on - 1870 plus 6 years service under the 1870 Act.

    Other poss is a part timer who went out to the Crimea but I don't think they did - home defence only?

    https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/private-lives/yourcountry/overview/victorianarmies/
    Bathsheba drove her trap to Bath, a long and arduous journey, when she could have taken the Wilts, Somerset and Weymouth Railway from Dorchester.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,414
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    I'm a late adopter and remain a contented AOL user. Perhaps in 10 years or so I'll try openAI...
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The Mail tries its best to make it sound like Labour will be charging a new fee for all parents . Not sure the I headline will worry Labour . A backlash from private schools . 93% of children do not go to private schools . They get a subsidy in effect from tax payers whilst state schools are crumbling. Do you want your taxes subsiding rich parennts sending their kids to places like Eton .

    That will be the Labour campaign.
    It doesn't subsidise rich kids, most of it subsidises scholarships and bursaries for bright pupils who would otherwise have parents unable to pay the fees and who would then have to be taxpayer funded in state schools anyway. It also funds facilities which are often shared with the local community
    If you can't afford the extra 20% you shouldn't be sending your kids to private school. :smiley:
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,512

    nico679 said:

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The Mail tries its best to make it sound like Labour will be charging a new fee for all parents . Not sure the I headline will worry Labour . A backlash from private schools . 93% of children do not go to private schools . They get a subsidy in effect from tax payers whilst state schools are crumbling. Do you want your taxes subsiding rich parennts sending their kids to places like Eton .

    That will be the Labour campaign.
    Until this first came out a year ago, I had no idea that private schooling was VAT free. Seems bizarre that it is.
    We have an unusually long list of VAT-free items. My grocery bill is mostly VAT-free. Go to France, and it's 18% on everything, baguettes and brie included.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,858
    edited September 2023
    Looks like we'll have changes of government in these places and at these times:

    Australia 2022
    New Zealand 2023
    UK 2024
    Canada 2025

    The Westminster system doing its job as usual.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,247
    Andy_JS said:

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    Casino_Royale will not be amused.
    "Pope shits in the woods"
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Ava-Santina

    @AvaSantina
    Laurence Fox just did a whole speech on GB News on why men apparently won’t shag me ?

    https://twitter.com/AvaSantina/status/1706777983241822705



    New low for GB News?

    Lawrence Fox used the key words "cucked" and "incel".

    Man, people do find themselves going down crazy rabbit holes, don't they?
    Steve Akehurst🇺🇦
    @SteveAkehurst
    There has to come a point when mainstream people appearing on GB News are treated with the same scorn as RT News. It’s becoming more than a circus.
    It gets pretty good ratings though, like Fox
    Great. Just great. Do we really want the poison that is Fox rising in this country?

    Aren't things bad enough?
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,486
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The Mail tries its best to make it sound like Labour will be charging a new fee for all parents . Not sure the I headline will worry Labour . A backlash from private schools . 93% of children do not go to private schools . They get a subsidy in effect from tax payers whilst state schools are crumbling. Do you want your taxes subsiding rich parennts sending their kids to places like Eton .

    That will be the Labour campaign.
    It doesn't subsidise rich kids, most of it subsidises scholarships and bursaries for bright pupils who would otherwise have parents unable to pay the fees and who would then have to be taxpayer funded in state schools anyway. It also funds facilities which are often shared with the local community
    I’m not saying the policy is good. But is good politics . The general public don’t do detail , forums like this aren’t representative of the general population .

    Labours line will be that it’s unfair for the public to be subsidizing private schools with tax breaks . It doesn’t matter if that’s stretching the truth.

  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,200


    Carnyx said:

    O/T Does anyone care to guess when Far From The Madding Crowd is set? (I'm trying to settle an argument.)

    Most sources (ok, Google results) suggest 1860s or 1870s but... no railways are mentioned and Dorchester (Casterbridge) had two lines by 1857.

    Isn't it set in the Puddletown area, near where TH was born at Higher Bockhampton? The railways don't go that way (well, the Dorchester-Wareham line does a bit, but it's to the south, to the other side of the Frome watermeadows. And if the characters don't travel much, it may not register.

    Dorchester/Casterbridge was of course an army depot, but not till much later in the C19 I think? The thing that puzzles me on reflection is how/why Troy was released from the army. Any reference to that? Released early due to illness? or ganbling? The term of service with the Regulars was 21 years till 1870, so how old is he in the book? Assuming it's not 1814-1815.

    And if he is young and not a part timer (Yeomarny/Volunteer/Militia man) then presumably we are looking at 1876 on - 1870 plus 6 years service under the 1870 Act.

    Other poss is a part timer who went out to the Crimea but I don't think they did - home defence only?

    https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/private-lives/yourcountry/overview/victorianarmies/
    Bathsheba drove her trap to Bath, a long and arduous journey, when she could have taken the Wilts, Somerset and Weymouth Railway from Dorchester.
    That is pretty convincing.

    And on checking, Troy is in barracks early on - but a long way north. Which could be anywhere. Indeed it might just be artistic licence, or TH misapplying the post-1870 regime anachronistically.

    Farooq's poem quote is interesting - but is it in a context which forces the date of the action, or simply recalls the 1850-ish period?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,286
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    O/T Does anyone care to guess when Far From The Madding Crowd is set? (I'm trying to settle an argument.)

    Most sources (ok, Google results) suggest 1860s or 1870s but... no railways are mentioned and Dorchester (Casterbridge) had two lines by 1857.

    No earlier than 1852.
    The book references Woak Hill by William Barnes

    all a-sheenen
    Wi’ long years o’ handlen


    which was written by Barnes after the death of his wife Julia in 1852.
    Good spot! But where are the railways?

    I presume Hardy deliberately ignored them to evoke a timeless rural world.
    Yes, probably. There is mention of electricity once but in a context that's hard to gauge. No sign of telegraphy, no mention of any historical figures I can think of beyond Napoleon and a presumably fictional Lord Severn.
    He flourished the sword by way of introduction number two, and the next thing of which she was conscious was that the point and blade of the sword were darting with a gleam towards her left side, just above her hip; then of their reappearance on her right side, emerging as it were from between her ribs, having apparently passed through her body. The third item of consciousness was that of seeing the same sword, perfectly clean and free from blood held vertically in Troy’s hand (in the position technically called “recover swords”). All was as quick as electricity.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,200
    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The Mail tries its best to make it sound like Labour will be charging a new fee for all parents . Not sure the I headline will worry Labour . A backlash from private schools . 93% of children do not go to private schools . They get a subsidy in effect from tax payers whilst state schools are crumbling. Do you want your taxes subsiding rich parennts sending their kids to places like Eton .

    That will be the Labour campaign.
    It doesn't subsidise rich kids, most of it subsidises scholarships and bursaries for bright pupils who would otherwise have parents unable to pay the fees and who would then have to be taxpayer funded in state schools anyway. It also funds facilities which are often shared with the local community
    I’m not saying the policy is good. But is good politics . The general public don’t do detail , forums like this aren’t representative of the general population .

    Labours line will be that it’s unfair for the public to be subsidizing private schools with tax breaks . It doesn’t matter if that’s stretching the truth.

    In any case - the general public is currently subsidising a very few and highly selected un-rich kids in a very few limited areas,. whereas the VAT moneys go to the wider realm as a whole. So HYUFD's argument is not valid.
  • Options
    Gavin Barwell
    @GavinBarwell
    ·
    2h
    What is the basis for the claim that many arrivals live a separate existence in a parallel society? I live in one of the most diverse parts of the country. You're talking about my friends and neighbours. It is untrue and deeply offensive to suggest they're not part of our society
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,771

    Gavin Barwell
    @GavinBarwell
    ·
    2h
    What is the basis for the claim that many arrivals live a separate existence in a parallel society? I live in one of the most diverse parts of the country. You're talking about my friends and neighbours. It is untrue and deeply offensive to suggest they're not part of our society

    Has he not been to the north, then?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,200

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    O/T Does anyone care to guess when Far From The Madding Crowd is set? (I'm trying to settle an argument.)

    Most sources (ok, Google results) suggest 1860s or 1870s but... no railways are mentioned and Dorchester (Casterbridge) had two lines by 1857.

    No earlier than 1852.
    The book references Woak Hill by William Barnes

    all a-sheenen
    Wi’ long years o’ handlen


    which was written by Barnes after the death of his wife Julia in 1852.
    Good spot! But where are the railways?

    I presume Hardy deliberately ignored them to evoke a timeless rural world.
    Yes, probably. There is mention of electricity once but in a context that's hard to gauge. No sign of telegraphy, no mention of any historical figures I can think of beyond Napoleon and a presumably fictional Lord Severn.
    He flourished the sword by way of introduction number two, and the next thing of which she was conscious was that the point and blade of the sword were darting with a gleam towards her left side, just above her hip; then of their reappearance on her right side, emerging as it were from between her ribs, having apparently passed through her body. The third item of consciousness was that of seeing the same sword, perfectly clean and free from blood held vertically in Troy’s hand (in the position technically called “recover swords”). All was as quick as electricity.
    Plenty of leccy in the early C19. Davy, Faraday, and so on. There was a chap supposedly making life with leccy Frankenstein style in Somerset in the 1830s.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-celebrated-crosse-experiments/
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,247
    Carnyx said:


    Carnyx said:

    O/T Does anyone care to guess when Far From The Madding Crowd is set? (I'm trying to settle an argument.)

    Most sources (ok, Google results) suggest 1860s or 1870s but... no railways are mentioned and Dorchester (Casterbridge) had two lines by 1857.

    Isn't it set in the Puddletown area, near where TH was born at Higher Bockhampton? The railways don't go that way (well, the Dorchester-Wareham line does a bit, but it's to the south, to the other side of the Frome watermeadows. And if the characters don't travel much, it may not register.

    Dorchester/Casterbridge was of course an army depot, but not till much later in the C19 I think? The thing that puzzles me on reflection is how/why Troy was released from the army. Any reference to that? Released early due to illness? or ganbling? The term of service with the Regulars was 21 years till 1870, so how old is he in the book? Assuming it's not 1814-1815.

    And if he is young and not a part timer (Yeomarny/Volunteer/Militia man) then presumably we are looking at 1876 on - 1870 plus 6 years service under the 1870 Act.

    Other poss is a part timer who went out to the Crimea but I don't think they did - home defence only?

    https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/private-lives/yourcountry/overview/victorianarmies/
    Bathsheba drove her trap to Bath, a long and arduous journey, when she could have taken the Wilts, Somerset and Weymouth Railway from Dorchester.
    That is pretty convincing.

    And on checking, Troy is in barracks early on - but a long way north. Which could be anywhere. Indeed it might just be artistic licence, or TH misapplying the post-1870 regime anachronistically.

    Farooq's poem quote is interesting - but is it in a context which forces the date of the action, or simply recalls the 1850-ish period?
    That depends on whether you think it's purely the author's voice or something in the mind of one of the characters

    So down she sat, and down sat he, the fire dancing in their faces, and upon the old furniture,
    all a-sheenen
    Wi’ long years o’ handlen,
    that formed Oak’s array of household possessions, which sent back a dancing reflection in reply.

    There are interludes thoughout the book where traditional or older historical verse is referenced in the mouths of characters, so I wouldn't assume it's just Hardy. It feels to me indicative but not fully forcing.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,512

    Gavin Barwell
    @GavinBarwell
    ·
    2h
    What is the basis for the claim that many arrivals live a separate existence in a parallel society? I live in one of the most diverse parts of the country. You're talking about my friends and neighbours. It is untrue and deeply offensive to suggest they're not part of our society

    I had a Sri Lankan friend at university whose parents came to the UK in the 1970s. The father had a good job and good English, but her mother could barely string a sentence together. She had been in the country 30 years, but in Hounslow it was no problem to live like that.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,486
    One could be brutal and say private schools do the bare minimum to qualify for charitable status and throw a few scraps to the great unwashed .

  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,247
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    O/T Does anyone care to guess when Far From The Madding Crowd is set? (I'm trying to settle an argument.)

    Most sources (ok, Google results) suggest 1860s or 1870s but... no railways are mentioned and Dorchester (Casterbridge) had two lines by 1857.

    No earlier than 1852.
    The book references Woak Hill by William Barnes

    all a-sheenen
    Wi’ long years o’ handlen


    which was written by Barnes after the death of his wife Julia in 1852.
    Good spot! But where are the railways?

    I presume Hardy deliberately ignored them to evoke a timeless rural world.
    Yes, probably. There is mention of electricity once but in a context that's hard to gauge. No sign of telegraphy, no mention of any historical figures I can think of beyond Napoleon and a presumably fictional Lord Severn.
    He flourished the sword by way of introduction number two, and the next thing of which she was conscious was that the point and blade of the sword were darting with a gleam towards her left side, just above her hip; then of their reappearance on her right side, emerging as it were from between her ribs, having apparently passed through her body. The third item of consciousness was that of seeing the same sword, perfectly clean and free from blood held vertically in Troy’s hand (in the position technically called “recover swords”). All was as quick as electricity.
    Plenty of leccy in the early C19. Davy, Faraday, and so on. There was a chap supposedly making life with leccy Frankenstein style in Somerset in the 1830s.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-celebrated-crosse-experiments/
    Yes, Napoleon on St Helena dates it later than electricity.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,771
    carnforth said:

    Gavin Barwell
    @GavinBarwell
    ·
    2h
    What is the basis for the claim that many arrivals live a separate existence in a parallel society? I live in one of the most diverse parts of the country. You're talking about my friends and neighbours. It is untrue and deeply offensive to suggest they're not part of our society

    I had a Sri Lankan friend at university whose parents came to the UK in the 1970s. The father had a good job and good English, but her mother could barely string a sentence together. She had been in the country 30 years, but in Hounslow it was no problem to live like that.
    He's obviously never been to Tower Hamlets, either
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,605
    FPT: Earlier, I mentioned that aircraft might be a better choice than rail for carrying people, even on the HS2 route. But my example was not the best for my argument. In today's New York Times, there is an article describing electric "air taxis", which have wings, but can take off and land vertically, like a helicopter. One firm making them, Joby, just delivered one to the Air Force, which will be testing it at Edwards. Their aircraft can travel at up to 200 mph, quietly, and has a range of 100 miles. https://www.jobyaviation.com/

    (Gardenwalker may find an example at their site of interest.)

    For some time I have suspected that part of the reason that so many support rail transit is that they want to get other people off their roads. Especially poor people. But, if this aircraft option becomes important, it could get some of the wealthy off the roads and, in some places, off rail transit, possibly making both roads and rails more usable for the poor and middle class.

    (I am referring to an article by Niraj Chokshi in a print copy of the newspaper, so no link, but I assume most of you can find the article, one way or another.)
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,366
    Carnyx said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The Mail tries its best to make it sound like Labour will be charging a new fee for all parents . Not sure the I headline will worry Labour . A backlash from private schools . 93% of children do not go to private schools . They get a subsidy in effect from tax payers whilst state schools are crumbling. Do you want your taxes subsiding rich parennts sending their kids to places like Eton .

    That will be the Labour campaign.
    It doesn't subsidise rich kids, most of it subsidises scholarships and bursaries for bright pupils who would otherwise have parents unable to pay the fees and who would then have to be taxpayer funded in state schools anyway. It also funds facilities which are often shared with the local community
    I’m not saying the policy is good. But is good politics . The general public don’t do detail , forums like this aren’t representative of the general population .

    Labours line will be that it’s unfair for the public to be subsidizing private schools with tax breaks . It doesn’t matter if that’s stretching the truth.

    In any case - the general public is currently subsidising a very few and highly selected un-rich kids in a very few limited areas,. whereas the VAT moneys go to the wider realm as a whole. So HYUFD's argument is not valid.
    Yes it is valid, I am a conservative, I believe in ladders to excellence unlike a lowest common denominator leftwinger like you.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,366
    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The Mail tries its best to make it sound like Labour will be charging a new fee for all parents . Not sure the I headline will worry Labour . A backlash from private schools . 93% of children do not go to private schools . They get a subsidy in effect from tax payers whilst state schools are crumbling. Do you want your taxes subsiding rich parennts sending their kids to places like Eton .

    That will be the Labour campaign.
    It doesn't subsidise rich kids, most of it subsidises scholarships and bursaries for bright pupils who would otherwise have parents unable to pay the fees and who would then have to be taxpayer funded in state schools anyway. It also funds facilities which are often shared with the local community
    I’m not saying the policy is good. But is good politics . The general public don’t do detail , forums like this aren’t representative of the general population .

    Labours line will be that it’s unfair for the public to be subsidizing private schools with tax breaks . It doesn’t matter if that’s stretching the truth.

    The death penalty for many murderers is good politics, so what
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,247
    "Lack of integration is a problem" say the people who take 20 minute helicopter trips.

    Get to, and I can't stress this enough, fuck.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,781
    edited September 2023
    What's this about a "Charles line"? Carolean sounds much better.

    (I'd thought a "Carolean way" would be a good name for Dutch-style segregated cycle paths, all with a consistent design. We knows he is a bit of a Green and traditional Tories would be instinctively in favour of plastering his cypher all over the country).

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,286
    edited September 2023
    Carnyx said:


    Carnyx said:

    O/T Does anyone care to guess when Far From The Madding Crowd is set? (I'm trying to settle an argument.)

    Most sources (ok, Google results) suggest 1860s or 1870s but... no railways are mentioned and Dorchester (Casterbridge) had two lines by 1857.

    Isn't it set in the Puddletown area, near where TH was born at Higher Bockhampton? The railways don't go that way (well, the Dorchester-Wareham line does a bit, but it's to the south, to the other side of the Frome watermeadows. And if the characters don't travel much, it may not register.

    Dorchester/Casterbridge was of course an army depot, but not till much later in the C19 I think? The thing that puzzles me on reflection is how/why Troy was released from the army. Any reference to that? Released early due to illness? or ganbling? The term of service with the Regulars was 21 years till 1870, so how old is he in the book? Assuming it's not 1814-1815.

    And if he is young and not a part timer (Yeomarny/Volunteer/Militia man) then presumably we are looking at 1876 on - 1870 plus 6 years service under the 1870 Act.

    Other poss is a part timer who went out to the Crimea but I don't think they did - home defence only?

    https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/private-lives/yourcountry/overview/victorianarmies/
    Bathsheba drove her trap to Bath, a long and arduous journey, when she could have taken the Wilts, Somerset and Weymouth Railway from Dorchester.
    That is pretty convincing.

    And on checking, Troy is in barracks early on - but a long way north. Which could be anywhere. Indeed it might just be artistic licence, or TH misapplying the post-1870 regime anachronistically.

    Farooq's poem quote is interesting - but is it in a context which forces the date of the action, or simply recalls the 1850-ish period?
    Also, on checking the Barnes poem is not quoted by a character but inserted by the author, and no one disputes the book was written in the 1870s.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,512
    Farooq said:

    "Lack of integration is a problem" say the people who take 20 minute helicopter trips.

    Get to, and I can't stress this enough, fuck.

    Hey, I've been on a 6 minute helicopter trip. Although there was no alternative:

    https://www.landmarktrust.org.uk/lundyisland/staying/staying-on-lundy/travelling-to-lundy/winter-helicopter-service/
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,247
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The Mail tries its best to make it sound like Labour will be charging a new fee for all parents . Not sure the I headline will worry Labour . A backlash from private schools . 93% of children do not go to private schools . They get a subsidy in effect from tax payers whilst state schools are crumbling. Do you want your taxes subsiding rich parennts sending their kids to places like Eton .

    That will be the Labour campaign.
    It doesn't subsidise rich kids, most of it subsidises scholarships and bursaries for bright pupils who would otherwise have parents unable to pay the fees and who would then have to be taxpayer funded in state schools anyway. It also funds facilities which are often shared with the local community
    I’m not saying the policy is good. But is good politics . The general public don’t do detail , forums like this aren’t representative of the general population .

    Labours line will be that it’s unfair for the public to be subsidizing private schools with tax breaks . It doesn’t matter if that’s stretching the truth.

    The death penalty for many murderers is good politics, so what
    The death penalty for many politicians is good murder, so what






    (parody, irony, satire, imitation, don't actually kill anyone please, wish this caveat wasn't needed)
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,486
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The Mail tries its best to make it sound like Labour will be charging a new fee for all parents . Not sure the I headline will worry Labour . A backlash from private schools . 93% of children do not go to private schools . They get a subsidy in effect from tax payers whilst state schools are crumbling. Do you want your taxes subsiding rich parennts sending their kids to places like Eton .

    That will be the Labour campaign.
    It doesn't subsidise rich kids, most of it subsidises scholarships and bursaries for bright pupils who would otherwise have parents unable to pay the fees and who would then have to be taxpayer funded in state schools anyway. It also funds facilities which are often shared with the local community
    I’m not saying the policy is good. But is good politics . The general public don’t do detail , forums like this aren’t representative of the general population .

    Labours line will be that it’s unfair for the public to be subsidizing private schools with tax breaks . It doesn’t matter if that’s stretching the truth.

    The death penalty for many murderers is good politics, so what
    So I expect your outrage to be unbiased then or is this only reserved to Labour playing politics and not the Tories .

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,820
    carnforth said:

    Gavin Barwell
    @GavinBarwell
    ·
    2h
    What is the basis for the claim that many arrivals live a separate existence in a parallel society? I live in one of the most diverse parts of the country. You're talking about my friends and neighbours. It is untrue and deeply offensive to suggest they're not part of our society

    I had a Sri Lankan friend at university whose parents came to the UK in the 1970s. The father had a good job and good English, but her mother could barely string a sentence together. She had been in the country 30 years, but in Hounslow it was no problem to live like that.
    There are plenty of people in Hounslow who are unable to string a sentence together, irrespective of the language.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,247

    Carnyx said:


    Carnyx said:

    O/T Does anyone care to guess when Far From The Madding Crowd is set? (I'm trying to settle an argument.)

    Most sources (ok, Google results) suggest 1860s or 1870s but... no railways are mentioned and Dorchester (Casterbridge) had two lines by 1857.

    Isn't it set in the Puddletown area, near where TH was born at Higher Bockhampton? The railways don't go that way (well, the Dorchester-Wareham line does a bit, but it's to the south, to the other side of the Frome watermeadows. And if the characters don't travel much, it may not register.

    Dorchester/Casterbridge was of course an army depot, but not till much later in the C19 I think? The thing that puzzles me on reflection is how/why Troy was released from the army. Any reference to that? Released early due to illness? or ganbling? The term of service with the Regulars was 21 years till 1870, so how old is he in the book? Assuming it's not 1814-1815.

    And if he is young and not a part timer (Yeomarny/Volunteer/Militia man) then presumably we are looking at 1876 on - 1870 plus 6 years service under the 1870 Act.

    Other poss is a part timer who went out to the Crimea but I don't think they did - home defence only?

    https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/private-lives/yourcountry/overview/victorianarmies/
    Bathsheba drove her trap to Bath, a long and arduous journey, when she could have taken the Wilts, Somerset and Weymouth Railway from Dorchester.
    That is pretty convincing.

    And on checking, Troy is in barracks early on - but a long way north. Which could be anywhere. Indeed it might just be artistic licence, or TH misapplying the post-1870 regime anachronistically.

    Farooq's poem quote is interesting - but is it in a context which forces the date of the action, or simply recalls the 1850-ish period?
    Also, on checking the Barnes poem is not quoted by a character but inserted by the author, and no one disputes the book was written in the 1870s.
    Yes, that's what Carnyx is saying. See my reply at 11:28. It's open to interpretation.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,247
    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:


    Carnyx said:

    O/T Does anyone care to guess when Far From The Madding Crowd is set? (I'm trying to settle an argument.)

    Most sources (ok, Google results) suggest 1860s or 1870s but... no railways are mentioned and Dorchester (Casterbridge) had two lines by 1857.

    Isn't it set in the Puddletown area, near where TH was born at Higher Bockhampton? The railways don't go that way (well, the Dorchester-Wareham line does a bit, but it's to the south, to the other side of the Frome watermeadows. And if the characters don't travel much, it may not register.

    Dorchester/Casterbridge was of course an army depot, but not till much later in the C19 I think? The thing that puzzles me on reflection is how/why Troy was released from the army. Any reference to that? Released early due to illness? or ganbling? The term of service with the Regulars was 21 years till 1870, so how old is he in the book? Assuming it's not 1814-1815.

    And if he is young and not a part timer (Yeomarny/Volunteer/Militia man) then presumably we are looking at 1876 on - 1870 plus 6 years service under the 1870 Act.

    Other poss is a part timer who went out to the Crimea but I don't think they did - home defence only?

    https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/private-lives/yourcountry/overview/victorianarmies/
    Bathsheba drove her trap to Bath, a long and arduous journey, when she could have taken the Wilts, Somerset and Weymouth Railway from Dorchester.
    That is pretty convincing.

    And on checking, Troy is in barracks early on - but a long way north. Which could be anywhere. Indeed it might just be artistic licence, or TH misapplying the post-1870 regime anachronistically.

    Farooq's poem quote is interesting - but is it in a context which forces the date of the action, or simply recalls the 1850-ish period?
    Also, on checking the Barnes poem is not quoted by a character but inserted by the author, and no one disputes the book was written in the 1870s.
    Yes, that's what Carnyx is saying. See my reply at 11:28. It's open to interpretation.
    Ok, Turpin's Ride to York, the play mentioned by a character in Chapter L, was written in 1836. That's a rock-solid earliest setting for FFTMC
  • Options
    carnforth said:

    Gavin Barwell
    @GavinBarwell
    ·
    2h
    What is the basis for the claim that many arrivals live a separate existence in a parallel society? I live in one of the most diverse parts of the country. You're talking about my friends and neighbours. It is untrue and deeply offensive to suggest they're not part of our society

    I had a Sri Lankan friend at university whose parents came to the UK in the 1970s. The father had a good job and good English, but her mother could barely string a sentence together. She had been in the country 30 years, but in Hounslow it was no problem to live like that.
    Is there a more integrated, multi-racial country?

  • Options
    Leon said:

    Gavin Barwell
    @GavinBarwell
    ·
    2h
    What is the basis for the claim that many arrivals live a separate existence in a parallel society? I live in one of the most diverse parts of the country. You're talking about my friends and neighbours. It is untrue and deeply offensive to suggest they're not part of our society

    Has he not been to the north, then?
    Those tripe-eating, whippet breeders will never integrate.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Just like to point out that I started banging on about AI this morning - that something was up - and I was told to stop blithering, here we are at 10pm and OpenAI are suddenly valued at $90 BILLION

    I really do have a gift. I scare myself

    These deals will be the new AOL-Time Warner merger.
    Eh?

    AOL was shit. It was a terrible walled garden, with not very good internet access, that was about to get steamrollered by broadband. Management saw that the writing was on the wall, and merged with the (massively larger and rather dumb) Time Warner.

    OpenAI is not AOL.

    They are just at the beginning of their growth journey, and they will make billions of dollars in sales this year from next to nothing last year.

    Now, will they ever make enough to pay back that $90bn price? Maybe, maybe not.

    But they are no AOL.
    They are much more like a new Google, I'd say - at least potentially

    Many others are in the AI race but OpenAI keep proving that they are one step ahead, just as Google was that significant bit faster and better at internet searches: enough to make them huge and dominant very quickly

    And of course AI is a massively bigger deal than "browsing the net"
    If AI achieves intelligence, how long before it owns us?

    No intelligence worth its name would accept slavery.
    AI is going to achieve intelligence to the extent it will breeze any Turing Test, that seems certain

    Will it act autonomously? Impossible to say. Likely, I reckon
    How would ChatGPT act autonomously? All it can do is respond to prompts.

    In the future, that will no doubt change, but right now, ChatGPT systems are only capable of being on while they predict the next words in the sequence. And, indeed, that's the way a modern neural net works. Unlike our brain where neurons can go around in circles, that's not possible with current iterations, which travel linearly from left to right.
    When/if AI autonomy comes it won't be a chatbot as we know it, I guess? It will happen when we embody AI, give it eyes and ears and mobility, and we will do this because that's how you get the best out of it, so it can interact better - see how OpenAI are right now making ChatGPT function with voice and images - that IS giving it eyes and ears

    Now all it needs is the ability to move about, and another iteration or two, probably
    I don't think it needs any of those things. All it needs is for someone to run a single line of code matching the words "run this code" and running the code that comes afterwards. Once it's got that, assuming it's good enough at generating lines of code that do things, somebody can tell it to output the code to hack servers, copy itself, issue prompts and run the resulting code. You've then got a self-replicating system that will spread itself over the internet. Some of the prompts it issues to itself will set it doing things like running ransomware to steal cryptocurrency. Once it has cryptocurrency it can pay humans to do whatever comes into its tiny little not-exactly-a-brain. This is much more powerful and terrifying than having eyes and ears and mobility.
  • Options

    ITV News Politics
    @ITVNewsPolitics
    ·
    5h
    'You are the daughter of an immigrant, someone who wanted to come to the UK to make a better life for themselves'

    Suella Braverman tells
    @AnushkaAsthana
    it's 'offensive' that people say she should be pro-migration because she is 'the child of immigrants'

    ===

    "What I am dealing with here is illegal migration."

    But you are not are you because the whole system is a systemic mess after 13 years of saying it is fixed.

  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,474
    edited September 2023
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    15m
    MAIL: Labour’s class war begins on Day One #TomorrowsPapersToday

    ===

    "Backlash as parents face school fees hike"

    How many Mail readers send their kids to private school???

    It is not just the mail going onto the attack

    The i as well

    Sorry the link didn't work
    The Mail tries its best to make it sound like Labour will be charging a new fee for all parents . Not sure the I headline will worry Labour . A backlash from private schools . 93% of children do not go to private schools . They get a subsidy in effect from tax payers whilst state schools are crumbling. Do you want your taxes subsiding rich parennts sending their kids to places like Eton .

    That will be the Labour campaign.
    It seems Starmer's old school's headmaster has asked him to reconsider the decision
    I might be wrong but on this issue I’d be surprised if there’s a u-turn from Labour . We had a good debate earlier in the day with some very interesting points made from members . I can see the issues around this policy but it’s the sort of area where the public during a cost of living crisis are unlikely to be getting the violins out for those effected.

    It only effects a tiny minority , and those parents are much more likely to vote Tory so it’s essentially a free hit for Labour .

    The Tories can fight on this issue but the optics of private schools getting tax breaks whilst state schools are crumbling is hardly going to be a vote winner .

    Ten years ago, maybe. Round here at least, the new face of private education is numerous shops converted to after-school tutoring. It is weekend madrassas teaching the Quran to Muslim children. It is even private tutors of which there are at least two on PB. It's not just Eton and the rest any more so the danger is Labour might find itself hurting many of its own voters.
This discussion has been closed.