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Rishi the Grate – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,916
edited September 2023 in General
Rishi the Grate – politicalbetting.com

Labour to attack PM on economy after focus groups ‘irritated’ by his optimism https://t.co/PBmCN9BDwj

Read the full story here

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    First...

    ...both here and on the list of people who should be giving advice on how not to look brash, arrogant and out-of-touch: move over, TSE!
  • Options
    I know I lean left but I can't help thinking that potential Labour attack lines (like this, and also on competence) will gain more traction with voters than potential Tory lines (Starmer's boring/Starmer supported Corbyn/Labour would need a coalition of chaos to get a majority/etc)
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 30,228
    Miserable people. Continue with the optimism.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,868
    Another Trumpworld defendant files for a speedy trial.

    https://twitter.com/TamarHallerman/status/1695165931012432121
    Sidney Powell, an attorney briefly affiliated with the Trump campaign, files a speedy trial demand in Fulton County
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,868
    edited August 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Miserable people. Continue with the optimism.

    There's optimism, and there's telling people things are good when they're not.

    Sunak doesn't know how to do persuasive optimism.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,635
    Please don't let them tell him to stop grinning all the time.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,072
    Andy_JS said:

    Miserable people. Continue with the optimism.

    = Toxic positivity
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,400
    FPT @CorrectHorseBat

    Someone I worked with (who subsequently became a friend) was once asked what I did.

    He replied: "I don't know exactly what he does. But when we work with him we get the outcome we want"
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    You are talking rubbish as usual, TSE.

    You are not '... the last person on this planet who should be giving people advice on how to stop looking like a brash, arrogant, out of touch elitist.' There are numerous people who are ahead of you in this respect, including many on this Site, myself included.

    Step aside, young man.



    Pissing down with rain here in Gloucestershire. Summer over then? :neutral:
  • Options
    As for Dishi, he's a good manager but not it seems a politician. Not that it matters much. Tories are cattle trucked whoever they have in charge, and whatever they do now.

    All they can do is wait, and hope they suffer a drubbing rather than an extinction event.

    November 2024...can't see it happening sooner, or later.
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    kamskikamski Posts: 4,523
    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,143
    edited August 2023
    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    All of the womens' team, and at least one of the mens' have refused to play until he resigns
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,109

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    That was my response too.
    But I wonder if there’s more to this story. Maybe he has “form”.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 12,556

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement. It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    Crazy.

    With everything going on in the world this one of the major news stories on Sky, ITV and the BBC.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,523
    Taz said:

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement. It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    Crazy.

    With everything going on in the world this one of the major news stories on Sky, ITV and the BBC.
    Although you could say the same every time a sports story becomes a major news story.
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,727

    As for Dishi, he's a good manager but not it seems a politician. Not that it matters much. Tories are cattle trucked whoever they have in charge, and whatever they do now.

    All they can do is wait, and hope they suffer a drubbing rather than an extinction event.

    November 2024...can't see it happening sooner, or later.

    He is a bloke who looks suave and professional rather than a proven good manager. His handling of Raab, Braverman, Zahawi and Williamson suggests he is not particularly good at managing when the going gets tough.

    I found his speech yesterday really weird and out of touch. But not sure it helps Labour to be highlighting it, just let him, and his cabinet, quietly carry on with their regular own goals.
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    darkagedarkage Posts: 5,016
    kamski said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    All of the womens' team, and at least one of the mens' have refused to play until he resigns
    He surely has to go. President of the Spanish football federation and at one of the biggest events in women's sport he forces an unwanted kiss on one of the winners on live television? And apparently later jokes about them getting married. The guy's obviously not suitable for the job.
    I can't work out if we are actually at the end of toxic masculinity. It plays in to the polarisation associated with the culture wars and now seems to be making a comeback. The problem is that a lot of cultural change has happened very rapidly and with limited public understanding, so people then become suprisingly apathetic, or even sympathetic to counter-cultural figures like Andrew Tate. This is not to make any comment on what happened, just to explain why it may not be as straightforward as sacking the guy.
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    darkage said:

    kamski said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    All of the womens' team, and at least one of the mens' have refused to play until he resigns
    He surely has to go. President of the Spanish football federation and at one of the biggest events in women's sport he forces an unwanted kiss on one of the winners on live television? And apparently later jokes about them getting married. The guy's obviously not suitable for the job.
    I can't work out if we are actually at the end of toxic masculinity. It plays in to the polarisation associated with the culture wars and now seems to be making a comeback. The problem is that a lot of cultural change has happened very rapidly and with limited public understanding, so people then become suprisingly apathetic, or even sympathetic to counter-cultural figures like Andrew Tate. This is not to make any comment on what happened, just to explain why it may not be as straightforward as sacking the guy.
    Yes, if women lose their rag just because an important male figure forces a kiss on a top female sports star on live TV, refuses to apologise and then lies about her saying it was OK, then they only have themselves to blame when people men turn to misogynists for moral guidance.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Miserable people. Continue with the optimism.

    There's optimism, and there's telling people things are good when they're not.

    Sunak doesn't know how to do persuasive optimism.
    I don't need to wonder where he got the idea of relentless grinning and boosting from. But one might have thought he had slightly more sense than to do it so uncritically.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,094
    Sunak is clearly relieved that, for now, average wage rises are running ahead of inflation, but that absolutely doesn't mean people feel better off.

    Most things are much more expensive than two years ago, their taxes higher and their mortgages much higher. So crowing about it is a silly thing to do. No-one feels better off.

    Instead, he should put the focus on Labour's plan - I still haven't heard a peep from Starmer on inflation.
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    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    kamski said:

    Taz said:

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement. It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    Crazy.

    With everything going on in the world this one of the major news stories on Sky, ITV and the BBC.
    Although you could say the same every time a sports story becomes a major news story.

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    The team that has just won the World Cup is now refusing to play because of a conduct issue by a senior member of their FA. It’s as much of a story as any other sport story, with a particularly notable irony angle of everyday misogyny overshadowing the most significant event in the history of Spanish women’s football.

    28m folk watched the World Cup on the BBC alone. It’s unquestionably one of the most viewed and popular sporting events of the year.

    As ever, The Day, Today’s formula of ‘fact x importance = news’ applies.

    I do agree though that if he’d just apologised early doors then the whole thing would’ve been a very minor footnote.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,034
    Fascinating article in FT on our infrastructure problems compared to other countries. Suspect it's not just the nimbys... but bit worrying there weren't more ideas to stop nimbyism.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,034
    rkrkrk said:

    Fascinating article in FT on our infrastructure problems compared to other countries. Suspect it's not just the nimbys... but bit worrying there weren't more ideas to stop nimbyism.

    Oops... the link is here https://www.ft.com/content/9aa0fcc0-31fb-44be-b5a0-57ceb7fb7a52
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    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    rkrkrk said:

    Fascinating article in FT on our infrastructure problems compared to other countries. Suspect it's not just the nimbys... but bit worrying there weren't more ideas to stop nimbyism.

    Hopefully in the weekend print edition; I’ll look forward to reading if so.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694

    Sunak is clearly relieved that, for now, average wage rises are running ahead of inflation, but that absolutely doesn't mean people feel better off.

    Most things are much more expensive than two years ago, their taxes higher and their mortgages much higher. So crowing about it is a silly thing to do. No-one feels better off.

    Instead, he should put the focus on Labour's plan - I still haven't heard a peep from Starmer on inflation.

    Because Labour aren't morons. SKS is keeping quiet till near the election. Right now, it is the "Conservative" Party who need to show that they can do something about inflation. It's their inflation, after all.

    To start blaming Labour is about as useful as a Glasgow football fan trying to justify paedophilia in his own team's organization by trying to find it in the team at the other end of Glasgow.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,011
    DavidL said:

    It is he that saith not 'Kismet'; it is he that knows not Fate;
    It is Richard, it is Raymond, it is Rishi at the grate!
    It is he whose loss is laughter when he counts the wager worth,
    Put down your feet upon him, that our peace be on the earth."

    In the case of Rishi Sunak I think it's more his head is 'cavern measureless to man, down to a sunless sea.'
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,883
    Andy_JS said:

    Miserable people. Continue with the optimism.

    The message can be optimistic - things are improving, we're making things better - but it has to connect with people's experience of reality or they simply won't hear it. Bearing in mind that pay is still declining in real terms, then the message has to start by acknowledging that reality.

    That isn't being pessimistic, it's simply being in the same world that the voters inhabit.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694

    darkage said:

    kamski said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    All of the womens' team, and at least one of the mens' have refused to play until he resigns
    He surely has to go. President of the Spanish football federation and at one of the biggest events in women's sport he forces an unwanted kiss on one of the winners on live television? And apparently later jokes about them getting married. The guy's obviously not suitable for the job.
    I can't work out if we are actually at the end of toxic masculinity. It plays in to the polarisation associated with the culture wars and now seems to be making a comeback. The problem is that a lot of cultural change has happened very rapidly and with limited public understanding, so people then become suprisingly apathetic, or even sympathetic to counter-cultural figures like Andrew Tate. This is not to make any comment on what happened, just to explain why it may not be as straightforward as sacking the guy.
    Yes, if women lose their rag just because an important male figure forces a kiss on a top female sports star on live TV, refuses to apologise and then lies about her saying it was OK, then they only have themselves to blame when people men turn to misogynists for moral guidance.
    I hadn't been following it and had to double check the gender of this person I'd never heard of who was claiming to be the victim and to have the SFA behind or something.

    Three out of the ten top read stories in the Graun, and second on the DM after a murder-case-quashed-and-love-story, and ironically amid a sea of bikini tops.

  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,883

    Sunak is clearly relieved that, for now, average wage rises are running ahead of inflation, but that absolutely doesn't mean people feel better off.

    Most things are much more expensive than two years ago, their taxes higher and their mortgages much higher. So crowing about it is a silly thing to do. No-one feels better off.

    Instead, he should put the focus on Labour's plan - I still haven't heard a peep from Starmer on inflation.

    Oh. I thought inflation was still ahead of pay rises? I'm that case Sunak really does need to have home a message along the lines of, "It's been tough, but the worst is past now, and it will only get better from here unless Labour ruin it."
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,094
    Carnyx said:

    Sunak is clearly relieved that, for now, average wage rises are running ahead of inflation, but that absolutely doesn't mean people feel better off.

    Most things are much more expensive than two years ago, their taxes higher and their mortgages much higher. So crowing about it is a silly thing to do. No-one feels better off.

    Instead, he should put the focus on Labour's plan - I still haven't heard a peep from Starmer on inflation.

    Because Labour aren't morons. SKS is keeping quiet till near the election. Right now, it is the "Conservative" Party who need to show that they can do something about inflation. It's their inflation, after all.

    To start blaming Labour is about as useful as a Glasgow football fan trying to justify paedophilia in his own team's organization by trying to find it in the team at the other end of Glasgow.
    Silly post. Every Western country is experiencing inflation right now. Inflation doesn't care what party is in office; it does care what is done about it.

    Sunak would be quite within his rights to put the focus back on Labour and show they have no plan for the economy - which they don't- just new things they want to tax.

    Starmer wants to be dealing with it in 12 months time. Let's hear how he'd handle it.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,094
    Andy_JS said:

    Miserable people. Continue with the optimism.

    Brits love misery.
  • Options

    Sunak is clearly relieved that, for now, average wage rises are running ahead of inflation, but that absolutely doesn't mean people feel better off.

    Most things are much more expensive than two years ago, their taxes higher and their mortgages much higher. So crowing about it is a silly thing to do. No-one feels better off.

    Instead, he should put the focus on Labour's plan - I still haven't heard a peep from Starmer on inflation.

    Trouble is that that Bank Of England guy let the cat out of the bag (and was understandably pilloried for it), that the way out of this is for the nation to accept that it's poorer than it used to think.

    And that unnamed politician from 2008 let another cat out of another bag by saying "we all know what to do, just not how to get elected doing it".

    But yes- average pay rises > average inflation doesn't mean that happy days are here again for most people. Both incomes and outgoings vary too much by individual for that.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,011
    Another idiot who attacked the messenger when warned he had criminals working for him:

    British Museum thefts: Director Hartwig Fischer quits over stolen treasures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66621006

    Same attitude as the Chester Hospitals or the Horizon scandal or OFSTED. Fortunately the consequences have been somewhat less serious.
  • Options
    Oh, and on header, Rishi the grate is what happens when he tries to get people fired up with enthusiasm.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536

    Andy_JS said:

    Miserable people. Continue with the optimism.

    The message can be optimistic - things are improving, we're making things better - but it has to connect with people's experience of reality or they simply won't hear it. Bearing in mind that pay is still declining in real terms, then the message has to start by acknowledging that reality.

    That isn't being pessimistic, it's simply being in the same world that the voters inhabit.
    Real wages will start rising this month but there is a hell of a lot of catching up to do and people's perceptions generally lag the reality in any event. But low unemployment, falling inflation, rising real wages when they come and modest growth is not the worst hand to be dealt. It is possible this hand might grow a tad stronger, into the higher number cards, if not the honours, by the election next year.
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 5,016

    darkage said:

    kamski said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    All of the womens' team, and at least one of the mens' have refused to play until he resigns
    He surely has to go. President of the Spanish football federation and at one of the biggest events in women's sport he forces an unwanted kiss on one of the winners on live television? And apparently later jokes about them getting married. The guy's obviously not suitable for the job.
    I can't work out if we are actually at the end of toxic masculinity. It plays in to the polarisation associated with the culture wars and now seems to be making a comeback. The problem is that a lot of cultural change has happened very rapidly and with limited public understanding, so people then become suprisingly apathetic, or even sympathetic to counter-cultural figures like Andrew Tate. This is not to make any comment on what happened, just to explain why it may not be as straightforward as sacking the guy.
    Yes, if women lose their rag just because an important male figure forces a kiss on a top female sports star on live TV, refuses to apologise and then lies about her saying it was OK, then they only have themselves to blame when people men turn to misogynists for moral guidance.
    Unfortunately culture shifts in all sorts of directions and not necessarily the direction that you might think is correct. Take for instance the persistent and enduring appeal of Donald Trump. Another example is Brexit. We want to believe that things are getting 'better' but in fact there is just change.

    My main comment on the left is that they have been too harsh, too brutal, too censorious in their 'victory' on cultural issues. It is setting the ground for similar tactics in a reaction from the other side. See what has happened in Florida for example.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694

    Carnyx said:

    Sunak is clearly relieved that, for now, average wage rises are running ahead of inflation, but that absolutely doesn't mean people feel better off.

    Most things are much more expensive than two years ago, their taxes higher and their mortgages much higher. So crowing about it is a silly thing to do. No-one feels better off.

    Instead, he should put the focus on Labour's plan - I still haven't heard a peep from Starmer on inflation.

    Because Labour aren't morons. SKS is keeping quiet till near the election. Right now, it is the "Conservative" Party who need to show that they can do something about inflation. It's their inflation, after all.

    To start blaming Labour is about as useful as a Glasgow football fan trying to justify paedophilia in his own team's organization by trying to find it in the team at the other end of Glasgow.
    Silly post. Every Western country is experiencing inflation right now. Inflation doesn't care what party is in office; it does care what is done about it.

    Sunak would be quite within his rights to put the focus back on Labour and show they have no plan for the economy - which they don't- just new things they want to tax.

    Starmer wants to be dealing with it in 12 months time. Let's hear how he'd handle it.
    Missing my point completely. It is an useless and mendacious strategy that you propose, so far out from an election.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,034

    Carnyx said:

    Sunak is clearly relieved that, for now, average wage rises are running ahead of inflation, but that absolutely doesn't mean people feel better off.

    Most things are much more expensive than two years ago, their taxes higher and their mortgages much higher. So crowing about it is a silly thing to do. No-one feels better off.

    Instead, he should put the focus on Labour's plan - I still haven't heard a peep from Starmer on inflation.

    Because Labour aren't morons. SKS is keeping quiet till near the election. Right now, it is the "Conservative" Party who need to show that they can do something about inflation. It's their inflation, after all.

    To start blaming Labour is about as useful as a Glasgow football fan trying to justify paedophilia in his own team's organization by trying to find it in the team at the other end of Glasgow.
    Silly post. Every Western country is experiencing inflation right now. Inflation doesn't care what party is in office; it does care what is done about it.

    Sunak would be quite within his rights to put the focus back on Labour and show they have no plan for the economy - which they don't- just new things they want to tax.

    Starmer wants to be dealing with it in 12 months time. Let's hear how he'd handle it.
    One idea he has talked about is doing a lot more to get people's homes insulated.

    If the Tories had implemented, we would be in a much better position on energy costs.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,959
    edited August 2023
    Two points.
    One. Pay rises generally happen once a year, whilst inflation is a permanent occurrence.
    (Also. If you trumpet "pay rises are ahead of inflation!" This is great!" Doesn't it weaken your case for imposing below inflation settlements on your own employees? And that higher pay stokes inflation more generally?).
    Two. A bad winter could finish them off. We all lucked out last time. We are overdue a colder one.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536
    Ghedebrav said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Fascinating article in FT on our infrastructure problems compared to other countries. Suspect it's not just the nimbys... but bit worrying there weren't more ideas to stop nimbyism.

    Hopefully in the weekend print edition; I’ll look forward to reading if so.
    If you type the headline into google you can read it. The headline is The Nimby tax on Britain and America.
    The article makes some good points and I agree it is a major factor in our poor productivity but its a bit short in solutions.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,011
    edited August 2023

    Oh, and on header, Rishi the grate is what happens when he tries to get people fired up with enthusiasm.

    Full marks for effort, but the result left me coaled.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 46,412
    rkrkrk said:

    Fascinating article in FT on our infrastructure problems compared to other countries. Suspect it's not just the nimbys... but bit worrying there weren't more ideas to stop nimbyism.

    It’s a reaction to a reaction to a…

    The planners went mad in post war Britain. Some of the schemes that were planned were utterly insane - such as to turn London into a grid of motorways.

    We all know and love the award winning architecture that got built.

    Naturally, resistance to the inhuman type of planning and building arose.

    Equally naturally, the planners, developers and architects didn’t modify their behaviour that much. They had a fight on their hands and pushed back.

    So the other side gathered more resources and pushed back… round and round it went

    Both sides became ever more rigid. Both sides got the politicians to create laws on their behalf.

    The resulting legal and procedural conflicts then spawned a third party. The planning enquiry industry. Which is worth billions.

    The counter example is interesting. Offshore wind farms. Since fish don’t vote, and the requirement for quick, affordable Green power, the politicians granted an end run round the enquiry industry. There are planing issues and process, but it is streamlined to a considerable extent.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694
    ydoethur said:

    Another idiot who attacked the messenger when warned he had criminals working for him:

    British Museum thefts: Director Hartwig Fischer quits over stolen treasures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66621006

    Same attitude as the Chester Hospitals or the Horizon scandal or OFSTED. Fortunately the consequences have been somewhat less serious.

    Indeed, though (a) he did resign rather more quickly when the manure hit the aircon, but (b) this does open up the museum to new lines of attack on another front: it - and/or the opponents of restitution of cultural objects - have been relying on the argument we-know-best-how-to-look-after-the-objects-than-the-Johnny-Foreigner-they-were-theived/extorted-from, with predictable results already happening.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/25/the-guardian-view-on-the-british-museum-losses-a-diplomatic-own-goal
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    darkagedarkage Posts: 5,016
    dixiedean said:

    Two points.
    One. Pay rises generally happen once a year, whilst inflation is a permanent occurrence.
    Two. A bad winter could finish them off. We all lucked out last time. We are overdue a colder one.

    Bjorn Lomborg is doing the rounds saying that whilst there is a current panic about deaths from overheating due to climate change, actually statistically more people die from cold, and this number is declining, and this is overlooked in an analysis of the benefits/costs of climate change. Something to consider further, at least.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694
    ydoethur said:

    Oh, and on header, Rishi the grate is what happens when he tries to get people fired up with enthusiasm.

    Full marks for effort, but the result left me coaled.
    Mr Sunak does need to hope that inflation has culm-inated, though.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,011
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh, and on header, Rishi the grate is what happens when he tries to get people fired up with enthusiasm.

    Full marks for effort, but the result left me coaled.
    Mr Sunak does need to hope that inflation has culm-inated, though.
    I think with Sunak's current statements we need to remember Mandy Rice-Davies:

    'Well, he wood say that, wooden he?'
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,109
    I’m not sure what messaged I’d advise Rishi.
    At the end of the day, the current economic mess, while sharing many aspects with a global malaise*, has several distinctly British characteristics.

    He is not primarily to blame, but he is hardly blameless.

    His best bet was a reforming government, probably appointing Gove as DPM and Minister Plenipotentiary, and leaving the culture wars to GBTV.

    He has, after all, a decent majority.

    But parliamentary business has basically ground to a halt. He’s just managing for failure and stasis.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,094
    Andy_JS said:

    Miserable people. Continue with the optimism.

    Brits love misery.
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sunak is clearly relieved that, for now, average wage rises are running ahead of inflation, but that absolutely doesn't mean people feel better off.

    Most things are much more expensive than two years ago, their taxes higher and their mortgages much higher. So crowing about it is a silly thing to do. No-one feels better off.

    Instead, he should put the focus on Labour's plan - I still haven't heard a peep from Starmer on inflation.

    Because Labour aren't morons. SKS is keeping quiet till near the election. Right now, it is the "Conservative" Party who need to show that they can do something about inflation. It's their inflation, after all.

    To start blaming Labour is about as useful as a Glasgow football fan trying to justify paedophilia in his own team's organization by trying to find it in the team at the other end of Glasgow.
    Silly post. Every Western country is experiencing inflation right now. Inflation doesn't care what party is in office; it does care what is done about it.

    Sunak would be quite within his rights to put the focus back on Labour and show they have no plan for the economy - which they don't- just new things they want to tax.

    Starmer wants to be dealing with it in 12 months time. Let's hear how he'd handle it.
    Missing my point completely. It is an useless and mendacious strategy that you propose, so far out from an election.
    No Plan Starmer.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,633
    BBC: "The French government is allocating €200m (£171.6m) to destroy surplus wine and support producers.

    It comes amid a cocktail of problems for the industry, including a falling demand for wine as more people drink craft beer."

    Our European neighbours waking up to the fact that beer is better than wine.

    All they need to do now is graduate from this "craft" nonsense to proper real ale and they'll be sorted.

    Cheers!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,300
    kamski said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    All of the womens' team, and at least one of the mens' have refused to play until he resigns
    He surely has to go. President of the Spanish football federation and at one of the biggest events in women's sport he forces an unwanted kiss on one of the winners on live television? And apparently later jokes about them getting married. The guy's obviously not suitable for the job.
    Surely that depends on "the job"?
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 9,159
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    kamski said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    All of the womens' team, and at least one of the mens' have refused to play until he resigns
    He surely has to go. President of the Spanish football federation and at one of the biggest events in women's sport he forces an unwanted kiss on one of the winners on live television? And apparently later jokes about them getting married. The guy's obviously not suitable for the job.
    I can't work out if we are actually at the end of toxic masculinity. It plays in to the polarisation associated with the culture wars and now seems to be making a comeback. The problem is that a lot of cultural change has happened very rapidly and with limited public understanding, so people then become suprisingly apathetic, or even sympathetic to counter-cultural figures like Andrew Tate. This is not to make any comment on what happened, just to explain why it may not be as straightforward as sacking the guy.
    Yes, if women lose their rag just because an important male figure forces a kiss on a top female sports star on live TV, refuses to apologise and then lies about her saying it was OK, then they only have themselves to blame when people men turn to misogynists for moral guidance.
    Unfortunately culture shifts in all sorts of directions and not necessarily the direction that you might think is correct. Take for instance the persistent and enduring appeal of Donald Trump. Another example is Brexit. We want to believe that things are getting 'better' but in fact there is just change.

    My main comment on the left is that they have been too harsh, too brutal, too censorious in their 'victory' on cultural issues. It is setting the ground for similar tactics in a reaction from the other side. See what has happened in Florida for example.
    I think the main responsibility for what has happened in Florida lies with the Republicans who have instituted what has happened in Florida.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh, and on header, Rishi the grate is what happens when he tries to get people fired up with enthusiasm.

    Full marks for effort, but the result left me coaled.
    Mr Sunak does need to hope that inflation has culm-inated, though.
    I think with Sunak's current statements we need to remember Mandy Rice-Davies:

    'Well, he wood say that, wooden he?'
    Quite, with pay settlements still to come.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536
    darkage said:

    dixiedean said:

    Two points.
    One. Pay rises generally happen once a year, whilst inflation is a permanent occurrence.
    Two. A bad winter could finish them off. We all lucked out last time. We are overdue a colder one.

    Bjorn Lomborg is doing the rounds saying that whilst there is a current panic about deaths from overheating due to climate change, actually statistically more people die from cold, and this number is declining, and this is overlooked in an analysis of the benefits/costs of climate change. Something to consider further, at least.
    My instant reaction to that is whether you are more likely to die of cold or heat very much depends where you are. I think in the past this would certainly have been true of temperate countries like mid to northern Europe but I would surprised if it is still true of the likes of Spain or even southern France now, if it ever was. The heatwaves that we now endure can be lethal, especially in a country whose architecture and climate control systems are much more focused on the cold.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694
    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    dixiedean said:

    Two points.
    One. Pay rises generally happen once a year, whilst inflation is a permanent occurrence.
    Two. A bad winter could finish them off. We all lucked out last time. We are overdue a colder one.

    Bjorn Lomborg is doing the rounds saying that whilst there is a current panic about deaths from overheating due to climate change, actually statistically more people die from cold, and this number is declining, and this is overlooked in an analysis of the benefits/costs of climate change. Something to consider further, at least.
    My instant reaction to that is whether you are more likely to die of cold or heat very much depends where you are. I think in the past this would certainly have been true of temperate countries like mid to northern Europe but I would surprised if it is still true of the likes of Spain or even southern France now, if it ever was. The heatwaves that we now endure can be lethal, especially in a country whose architecture and climate control systems are much more focused on the cold.
    Also, climate change includes the increase of extreme weather, both ways - and if the Gulf Stream falters or collapses, those of us bleating about climate change being a good thing because of the boost in the UK wine and seaside holiday industry will look even sillier.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536

    Andy_JS said:

    Miserable people. Continue with the optimism.

    Brits love misery.
    Indeed. Why else was whiny nonsense like the Smiths so successful?

    I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour
    But heaven knows I'm miserable now
    I was looking for a job and then I found a job
    And heaven knows I'm miserable now

    Jeez,
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,633
    rkrkrk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sunak is clearly relieved that, for now, average wage rises are running ahead of inflation, but that absolutely doesn't mean people feel better off.

    Most things are much more expensive than two years ago, their taxes higher and their mortgages much higher. So crowing about it is a silly thing to do. No-one feels better off.

    Instead, he should put the focus on Labour's plan - I still haven't heard a peep from Starmer on inflation.

    Because Labour aren't morons. SKS is keeping quiet till near the election. Right now, it is the "Conservative" Party who need to show that they can do something about inflation. It's their inflation, after all.

    To start blaming Labour is about as useful as a Glasgow football fan trying to justify paedophilia in his own team's organization by trying to find it in the team at the other end of Glasgow.
    Silly post. Every Western country is experiencing inflation right now. Inflation doesn't care what party is in office; it does care what is done about it.

    Sunak would be quite within his rights to put the focus back on Labour and show they have no plan for the economy - which they don't- just new things they want to tax.

    Starmer wants to be dealing with it in 12 months time. Let's hear how he'd handle it.
    One idea he has talked about is doing a lot more to get people's homes insulated.

    If the Tories had implemented, we would be in a much better position on energy costs.
    What's this? An army of loft laggers? Whatever happened to the last lot?
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 5,016

    rkrkrk said:

    Fascinating article in FT on our infrastructure problems compared to other countries. Suspect it's not just the nimbys... but bit worrying there weren't more ideas to stop nimbyism.

    It’s a reaction to a reaction to a…

    The planners went mad in post war Britain. Some of the schemes that were planned were utterly insane - such as to turn London into a grid of motorways.

    We all know and love the award winning architecture that got built.

    Naturally, resistance to the inhuman type of planning and building arose.

    Equally naturally, the planners, developers and architects didn’t modify their behaviour that much. They had a fight on their hands and pushed back.

    So the other side gathered more resources and pushed back… round and round it went

    Both sides became ever more rigid. Both sides got the politicians to create laws on their behalf.

    The resulting legal and procedural conflicts then spawned a third party. The planning enquiry industry. Which is worth billions.

    The counter example is interesting. Offshore wind farms. Since fish don’t vote, and the requirement for quick, affordable Green power, the politicians granted an end run round the enquiry industry. There are planing issues and process, but it is streamlined to a considerable extent.
    I think offshore wind goes down the NSIP route. So it is the same thing really.

    You are correct about the planning Inquiry industry. There was a case recently where there was a 2 day Inquiry in the north of england where the Council had conceded before the event. So everyone sat there for 2 days and there was nothing really to discuss, except to hear the objectors. The Inspector then concluded that the Council had been unreasonable in not granting planning permission and awarded costs against it. The costs claimed by applicant cover just the appeal proceedings (presumably comprising the hiring of a barrister and consultant team to go along to the 2 day non event) were just short of half a million pounds, paid by Council tax payers.

    (By contrast, the Inspector who actually sits in these NSIP or planning Inquiries and listens to the KC's argue out every point in tedious detail, and then makes the decision is paid about £60k per year. )

    Barristers make a great play of the situation being described above being the result of political incompetence in Councils and have even suggested that Councillors should be personally liable to pay for the costs in the situation described above. In response I made the suggestion that perhaps the government should cap legal costs claimed back after planning Inquiries at something like legal aid rates; however that was obviously met with silence.


  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,701

    As for Dishi, he's a good manager but not it seems a politician. Not that it matters much. Tories are cattle trucked whoever they have in charge, and whatever they do now.

    All they can do is wait, and hope they suffer a drubbing rather than an extinction event.

    November 2024...can't see it happening sooner, or later.

    Can we get back to May elections? Please?

    If Wishi Washi thinks that going to a miserable British population as we descend into a miserable British winter in the particularly miserable month of November is going to benefit them, then bring it on….
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,727
    rcs1000 said:

    kamski said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    All of the womens' team, and at least one of the mens' have refused to play until he resigns
    He surely has to go. President of the Spanish football federation and at one of the biggest events in women's sport he forces an unwanted kiss on one of the winners on live television? And apparently later jokes about them getting married. The guy's obviously not suitable for the job.
    Surely that depends on "the job"?
    Are you thinking a potential Tory MP or a new recruit for the Met?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,868

    You are talking rubbish as usual, TSE.

    You are not '... the last person on this planet who should be giving people advice on how to stop looking like a brash, arrogant, out of touch elitist.' There are numerous people who are ahead of you in this respect, including many on this Site, myself included.

    Step aside, young man.

    Pissing down with rain here in Gloucestershire. Summer over then? :neutral:

    TSE’s legendary modesty in action.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,883
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    dixiedean said:

    Two points.
    One. Pay rises generally happen once a year, whilst inflation is a permanent occurrence.
    Two. A bad winter could finish them off. We all lucked out last time. We are overdue a colder one.

    Bjorn Lomborg is doing the rounds saying that whilst there is a current panic about deaths from overheating due to climate change, actually statistically more people die from cold, and this number is declining, and this is overlooked in an analysis of the benefits/costs of climate change. Something to consider further, at least.
    My instant reaction to that is whether you are more likely to die of cold or heat very much depends where you are. I think in the past this would certainly have been true of temperate countries like mid to northern Europe but I would surprised if it is still true of the likes of Spain or even southern France now, if it ever was. The heatwaves that we now endure can be lethal, especially in a country whose architecture and climate control systems are much more focused on the cold.
    Also, climate change includes the increase of extreme weather, both ways - and if the Gulf Stream falters or collapses, those of us bleating about climate change being a good thing because of the boost in the UK wine and seaside holiday industry will look even sillier.
    You might be interested in this: https://rapid.ac.uk/

    There's always more natural variability than people think, but the potential link to the cold winter spell in December 2010 is interesting. Probably best not to ask what scientists would do for 100 years of this quality of observation.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,959
    Wasn't trying to make any kind of point about Climate Change.
    Merely to note that the severe winters of 1978-9 and 2009-10 finished off already less than popular governments.
    And that we are well past due another.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    dixiedean said:

    Two points.
    One. Pay rises generally happen once a year, whilst inflation is a permanent occurrence.
    Two. A bad winter could finish them off. We all lucked out last time. We are overdue a colder one.

    Bjorn Lomborg is doing the rounds saying that whilst there is a current panic about deaths from overheating due to climate change, actually statistically more people die from cold, and this number is declining, and this is overlooked in an analysis of the benefits/costs of climate change. Something to consider further, at least.
    My instant reaction to that is whether you are more likely to die of cold or heat very much depends where you are. I think in the past this would certainly have been true of temperate countries like mid to northern Europe but I would surprised if it is still true of the likes of Spain or even southern France now, if it ever was. The heatwaves that we now endure can be lethal, especially in a country whose architecture and climate control systems are much more focused on the cold.
    Also, climate change includes the increase of extreme weather, both ways - and if the Gulf Stream falters or collapses, those of us bleating about climate change being a good thing because of the boost in the UK wine and seaside holiday industry will look even sillier.
    You might be interested in this: https://rapid.ac.uk/

    There's always more natural variability than people think, but the potential link to the cold winter spell in December 2010 is interesting. Probably best not to ask what scientists would do for 100 years of this quality of observation.
    Quite. There are still buildings and garden walls round here which show the damage from those two winters.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,110

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    It's become a big story because he refuses to apologise and the team won't play as a result.

    So there's a major power struggle between the team and the head of their association.

    And then, yes, me too happened, which means stories about powerful men brushing aside the concerns of women about lack of consent are automatically more newsworthy. Apparently women are a bit concerned about that sort of thing and they watch the news. Who knew?
    The women's team are refusing to play unless Rubiales resigns.
    It would be a seminal moment if the men's team, out of solidarity, followed their lead. Although it's not a huge issue in the big scheme of things, if the men's team declared that it was unacceptable for men to bestow unwanted lip-kisses on women that would send a message.
  • Options

    BBC: "The French government is allocating €200m (£171.6m) to destroy surplus wine and support producers.

    It comes amid a cocktail of problems for the industry, including a falling demand for wine as more people drink craft beer."

    Our European neighbours waking up to the fact that beer is better than wine.

    All they need to do now is graduate from this "craft" nonsense to proper real ale and they'll be sorted.

    Cheers!

    That encapsulates everything that's wrong with the modern world. Pay producers subsidies to produce something, then pay them again to destroy it. We're fecked.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694
    dixiedean said:

    Wasn't trying to make any kind of point about Climate Change.
    Merely to note that the severe winters of 1978-9 and 2009-10 finished off already less than popular governments.
    And that we are well past due another.

    Oh, sure, as I am uncomfortably aware. Time to get the cement and mastic out of the shed and work around the house.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536
    darkage said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Fascinating article in FT on our infrastructure problems compared to other countries. Suspect it's not just the nimbys... but bit worrying there weren't more ideas to stop nimbyism.

    It’s a reaction to a reaction to a…

    The planners went mad in post war Britain. Some of the schemes that were planned were utterly insane - such as to turn London into a grid of motorways.

    We all know and love the award winning architecture that got built.

    Naturally, resistance to the inhuman type of planning and building arose.

    Equally naturally, the planners, developers and architects didn’t modify their behaviour that much. They had a fight on their hands and pushed back.

    So the other side gathered more resources and pushed back… round and round it went

    Both sides became ever more rigid. Both sides got the politicians to create laws on their behalf.

    The resulting legal and procedural conflicts then spawned a third party. The planning enquiry industry. Which is worth billions.

    The counter example is interesting. Offshore wind farms. Since fish don’t vote, and the requirement for quick, affordable Green power, the politicians granted an end run round the enquiry industry. There are planing issues and process, but it is streamlined to a considerable extent.
    I think offshore wind goes down the NSIP route. So it is the same thing really.

    You are correct about the planning Inquiry industry. There was a case recently where there was a 2 day Inquiry in the north of england where the Council had conceded before the event. So everyone sat there for 2 days and there was nothing really to discuss, except to hear the objectors. The Inspector then concluded that the Council had been unreasonable in not granting planning permission and awarded costs against it. The costs claimed by applicant cover just the appeal proceedings (presumably comprising the hiring of a barrister and consultant team to go along to the 2 day non event) were just short of half a million pounds, paid by Council tax payers.

    (By contrast, the Inspector who actually sits in these NSIP or planning Inquiries and listens to the KC's argue out every point in tedious detail, and then makes the decision is paid about £60k per year. )

    Barristers make a great play of the situation being described above being the result of political incompetence in Councils and have even suggested that Councillors should be personally liable to pay for the costs in the situation described above. In response I made the suggestion that perhaps the government should cap legal costs claimed back after planning Inquiries at something like legal aid rates; however that was obviously met with silence.


    An even better way forward would be to make the award of costs truly exceptional rather than increasingly routine. Much less chance of expensive barristers turning up if those instructing them are bearing the costs.
  • Options

    I’m not sure what messaged I’d advise Rishi.
    At the end of the day, the current economic mess, while sharing many aspects with a global malaise*, has several distinctly British characteristics.

    He is not primarily to blame, but he is hardly blameless.

    His best bet was a reforming government, probably appointing Gove as DPM and Minister Plenipotentiary, and leaving the culture wars to GBTV.

    He has, after all, a decent majority.

    But parliamentary business has basically ground to a halt. He’s just managing for failure and stasis.

    Trouble with reforms is that useful ones have a bit of initial pain before future gain. And the time horizon for most MPs and voters is too short for that. So nothing happens, except for a search for something else to chuck on the fire to keep us warm a bit longer.

    Which is why one has to be hopeful about the outcome of the 2024 election. Even if lefties are lefties, Starmer is meh and MPs are short termist cowards, it's likely that the next government won't be in hock to the generation waiting for God in the same way. That might/should/must unlock some progress.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 5,085
    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Miserable people. Continue with the optimism.

    Brits love misery.
    Indeed. Why else was whiny nonsense like the Smiths so successful?

    I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour
    But heaven knows I'm miserable now
    I was looking for a job and then I found a job
    And heaven knows I'm miserable now

    Jeez,
    The beeb were doing their bit for increasing the nation’s misery this morning by having Lyse Doucet hosting Today. In a medium that totally relies on sound why would you choose a presenter who sounds like a miserable cat having their claws removed by pliers?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,868

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    You understand the importance of symbols, surely ?
    And the point is he did the exact opposite of apologising.

    It’s not as though football itself belongs on the front pages, but it’s there all the time.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,109
    edited August 2023
    darkage said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Fascinating article in FT on our infrastructure problems compared to other countries. Suspect it's not just the nimbys... but bit worrying there weren't more ideas to stop nimbyism.

    It’s a reaction to a reaction to a…

    The planners went mad in post war Britain. Some of the schemes that were planned were utterly insane - such as to turn London into a grid of motorways.

    We all know and love the award winning architecture that got built.

    Naturally, resistance to the inhuman type of planning and building arose.

    Equally naturally, the planners, developers and architects didn’t modify their behaviour that much. They had a fight on their hands and pushed back.

    So the other side gathered more resources and pushed back… round and round it went

    Both sides became ever more rigid. Both sides got the politicians to create laws on their behalf.

    The resulting legal and procedural conflicts then spawned a third party. The planning enquiry industry. Which is worth billions.

    The counter example is interesting. Offshore wind farms. Since fish don’t vote, and the requirement for quick, affordable Green power, the politicians granted an end run round the enquiry industry. There are planing issues and process, but it is streamlined to a considerable extent.
    I think offshore wind goes down the NSIP route. So it is the same thing really.

    You are correct about the planning Inquiry industry. There was a case recently where there was a 2 day Inquiry in the north of england where the Council had conceded before the event. So everyone sat there for 2 days and there was nothing really to discuss, except to hear the objectors. The Inspector then concluded that the Council had been unreasonable in not granting planning permission and awarded costs against it. The costs claimed by applicant cover just the appeal proceedings (presumably comprising the hiring of a barrister and consultant team to go along to the 2 day non event) were just short of half a million pounds, paid by Council tax payers.

    (By contrast, the Inspector who actually sits in these NSIP or planning Inquiries and listens to the KC's argue out every point in tedious detail, and then makes the decision is paid about £60k per year. )

    Barristers make a great play of the situation being described above being the result of political incompetence in Councils and have even suggested that Councillors should be personally liable to pay for the costs in the situation described above. In response I made the suggestion that perhaps the government should cap legal costs claimed back after planning Inquiries at something like legal aid rates; however that was obviously met with silence.


    Obviously a scandal.

    Supply side reform is really, really hard.
    This government has simply done nothing, preferring to chase (or manufacture) headlines in the various Tory House journals.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,868
    boulay said:

    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Miserable people. Continue with the optimism.

    Brits love misery.
    Indeed. Why else was whiny nonsense like the Smiths so successful?

    I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour
    But heaven knows I'm miserable now
    I was looking for a job and then I found a job
    And heaven knows I'm miserable now

    Jeez,
    The beeb were doing their bit for increasing the nation’s misery this morning by having Lyse Doucet hosting Today. In a medium that totally relies on sound why would you choose a presenter who sounds like a miserable cat having their claws removed by pliers?
    Ukraine made her a star, in the BBC’s judgment.

    She’s actually a pretty good journalist, but her voice is definitely a matter of taste.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,633

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    It's become a big story because he refuses to apologise and the team won't play as a result.

    So there's a major power struggle between the team and the head of their association.

    And then, yes, me too happened, which means stories about powerful men brushing aside the concerns of women about lack of consent are automatically more newsworthy. Apparently women are a bit concerned about that sort of thing and they watch the news. Who knew?
    The women's team are refusing to play unless Rubiales resigns.
    It would be a seminal moment if the men's team, out of solidarity, followed their lead. Although it's not a huge issue in the big scheme of things, if the men's team declared that it was unacceptable for men to bestow unwanted lip-kisses on women that would send a message.
    And we all know that male footballers are renowned for their respect for women, and never crossing the boundary into unwanted sexual attention.
  • Options
    TSE = pound shop Sunak :lol:
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,094

    BBC: "The French government is allocating €200m (£171.6m) to destroy surplus wine and support producers.

    It comes amid a cocktail of problems for the industry, including a falling demand for wine as more people drink craft beer."

    Our European neighbours waking up to the fact that beer is better than wine.

    All they need to do now is graduate from this "craft" nonsense to proper real ale and they'll be sorted.

    Cheers!

    I've drunk so much terrible (largely red) wine that hasn't felt good when drinking it, and bloody awful after - including the next day.

    I've had a handful of beauties but they are far fewer in number, rare, expensive and invariably I only have a glass or two before chucking the bottle.

    So, yes, beer is better. Except champagne.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536
    boulay said:

    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Miserable people. Continue with the optimism.

    Brits love misery.
    Indeed. Why else was whiny nonsense like the Smiths so successful?

    I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour
    But heaven knows I'm miserable now
    I was looking for a job and then I found a job
    And heaven knows I'm miserable now

    Jeez,
    The beeb were doing their bit for increasing the nation’s misery this morning by having Lyse Doucet hosting Today. In a medium that totally relies on sound why would you choose a presenter who sounds like a miserable cat having their claws removed by pliers?
    Maybe because she has interesting things to say. I quite like her.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,109
    darkage said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Fascinating article in FT on our infrastructure problems compared to other countries. Suspect it's not just the nimbys... but bit worrying there weren't more ideas to stop nimbyism.

    It’s a reaction to a reaction to a…

    The planners went mad in post war Britain. Some of the schemes that were planned were utterly insane - such as to turn London into a grid of motorways.

    We all know and love the award winning architecture that got built.

    Naturally, resistance to the inhuman type of planning and building arose.

    Equally naturally, the planners, developers and architects didn’t modify their behaviour that much. They had a fight on their hands and pushed back.

    So the other side gathered more resources and pushed back… round and round it went

    Both sides became ever more rigid. Both sides got the politicians to create laws on their behalf.

    The resulting legal and procedural conflicts then spawned a third party. The planning enquiry industry. Which is worth billions.

    The counter example is interesting. Offshore wind farms. Since fish don’t vote, and the requirement for quick, affordable Green power, the politicians granted an end run round the enquiry industry. There are planing issues and process, but it is streamlined to a considerable extent.
    I think offshore wind goes down the NSIP route. So it is the same thing really.

    You are correct about the planning Inquiry industry. There was a case recently where there was a 2 day Inquiry in the north of england where the Council had conceded before the event. So everyone sat there for 2 days and there was nothing really to discuss, except to hear the objectors. The Inspector then concluded that the Council had been unreasonable in not granting planning permission and awarded costs against it. The costs claimed by applicant cover just the appeal proceedings (presumably comprising the hiring of a barrister and consultant team to go along to the 2 day non event) were just short of half a million pounds, paid by Council tax payers.

    (By contrast, the Inspector who actually sits in these NSIP or planning Inquiries and listens to the KC's argue out every point in tedious detail, and then makes the decision is paid about £60k per year. )

    Barristers make a great play of the situation being described above being the result of political incompetence in Councils and have even suggested that Councillors should be personally liable to pay for the costs in the situation described above. In response I made the suggestion that perhaps the government should cap legal costs claimed back after planning Inquiries at something like legal aid rates; however that was obviously met with silence.


    Obviously a scandal.
    Supply side reform is really, really hard.
    This government has simply done nothing, preferring to chase headlines in the c

    I’m not sure what messaged I’d advise Rishi.
    At the end of the day, the current economic mess, while sharing many aspects with a global malaise*, has several distinctly British characteristics.

    He is not primarily to blame, but he is hardly blameless.

    His best bet was a reforming government, probably appointing Gove as DPM and Minister Plenipotentiary, and leaving the culture wars to GBTV.

    He has, after all, a decent majority.

    But parliamentary business has basically ground to a halt. He’s just managing for failure and stasis.

    Trouble with reforms is that useful ones have a bit of initial pain before future gain. And the time horizon for most MPs and voters is too short for that. So nothing happens, except for a search for something else to chuck on the fire to keep us warm a bit longer.

    Which is why one has to be hopeful about the outcome of the 2024 election. Even if lefties are lefties, Starmer is meh and MPs are short termist cowards, it's likely that the next government won't be in hock to the generation waiting for God in the same way. That might/should/must unlock some progress.
    True, but there is a constituency for making difficult but necessary reforms, especially in the wake of Covid and the electricity price rises.

    Rishi’s one flimsy calling card is that he’s “the grown up in the room”, but the truth is that he junked that card quite quickly with “Stop the Boats” crap.

    (There was a premonition of this during the leadership campaign, with increasingly nonsensical remarks in a desperate attempt to out-flank Truss, though these have been largely memory-holed).
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,868

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    It's become a big story because he refuses to apologise and the team won't play as a result.

    So there's a major power struggle between the team and the head of their association.

    And then, yes, me too happened, which means stories about powerful men brushing aside the concerns of women about lack of consent are automatically more newsworthy. Apparently women are a bit concerned about that sort of thing and they watch the news. Who knew?
    The women's team are refusing to play unless Rubiales resigns.
    It would be a seminal moment if the men's team, out of solidarity, followed their lead. Although it's not a huge issue in the big scheme of things, if the men's team declared that it was unacceptable for men to bestow unwanted lip-kisses on women that would send a message.
    Borja Iglesias already has, refusing to play for the men's national team while Rubiales is in still charge.

  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,109
    Vanilla seems to have become extra sticky.
    Apologies for the remnants of old posts coming through.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,407
    edited August 2023
    dixiedean said:

    Wasn't trying to make any kind of point about Climate Change.
    Merely to note that the severe winters of 1978-9 and 2009-10 finished off already less than popular governments.
    And that we are well past due another.

    Also: 1963/4 was the coldest winter for 200 years according to the Met Office - followed by a change of govt in 1964 after 13 years of Tory rule.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,868
    DavidL said:

    boulay said:

    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Miserable people. Continue with the optimism.

    Brits love misery.
    Indeed. Why else was whiny nonsense like the Smiths so successful?

    I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour
    But heaven knows I'm miserable now
    I was looking for a job and then I found a job
    And heaven knows I'm miserable now

    Jeez,
    The beeb were doing their bit for increasing the nation’s misery this morning by having Lyse Doucet hosting Today. In a medium that totally relies on sound why would you choose a presenter who sounds like a miserable cat having their claws removed by pliers?
    Maybe because she has interesting things to say. I quite like her.
    Certainly a step up from Justin Webb.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,736
    Nigelb said:

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    You understand the importance of symbols, surely ?
    And the point is he did the exact opposite of apologising.

    It’s not as though football itself belongs on the front pages, but it’s there all the time.
    Not only that, he was applauded by his audience for refusing to resign.

    Spain has to decide if it is going to treat its World Cup winners with respect.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,736

    Vanilla seems to have become extra sticky.
    Apologies for the remnants of old posts coming through.

    Switching to the main site from Vanilla seems to unclog it.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    You understand the importance of symbols, surely ?
    And the point is he did the exact opposite of apologising.

    It’s not as though football itself belongs on the front pages, but it’s there all the time.
    Not only that, he was applauded by his audience for refusing to resign.

    Spain has to decide if it is going to treat its World Cup winners with respect.
    "Don't worry. It's not that kind of a kiss."
  • Options

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    That was my response too.
    But I wonder if there’s more to this story. Maybe he has “form”.
    Given the recent history of the Spanish football team you can see why this will not have gone down well. I think they might have hoped this sort of behaviour had finally been dealt with but apparently not.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,407
    geoffw said:

    dixiedean said:

    Wasn't trying to make any kind of point about Climate Change.
    Merely to note that the severe winters of 1978-9 and 2009-10 finished off already less than popular governments.
    And that we are well past due another.

    Also: 1963/4 was the coldest winter for 200 years according to the Met Office - followed by a change of govt in 1964 after 13 years of Tory rule.

    Rubbish, it was 1962/3. And I should have remembered that.

  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,727
    Nigelb said:

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    You understand the importance of symbols, surely ?
    And the point is he did the exact opposite of apologising.

    It’s not as though football itself belongs on the front pages, but it’s there all the time.
    He did apologise, just insincerely and kind of aggressively before starting to blame her......

    If he was sixty plus one might consider it generational, but he is 46, how on earth is he expecting this approach to pan out well for him?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,536
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    You understand the importance of symbols, surely ?
    And the point is he did the exact opposite of apologising.

    It’s not as though football itself belongs on the front pages, but it’s there all the time.
    Not only that, he was applauded by his audience for refusing to resign.

    Spain has to decide if it is going to treat its World Cup winners with respect.
    Instead they seem to be doubling down: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66626410

    Quite, quite bizarre.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,736

    BBC: "The French government is allocating €200m (£171.6m) to destroy surplus wine and support producers.

    It comes amid a cocktail of problems for the industry, including a falling demand for wine as more people drink craft beer."

    Our European neighbours waking up to the fact that beer is better than wine.

    All they need to do now is graduate from this "craft" nonsense to proper real ale and they'll be sorted.

    Cheers!

    That encapsulates everything that's wrong with the modern world. Pay producers subsidies to produce something, then pay them again to destroy it. We're fecked.
    It does sound as if the pandemic then inflation have squeezed sales of red wine, and at least some of the money is to support winemakers switching to other crops, so more long term than simple production subsidies:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/25/france-fund-destroying-excess-wine-demand-falls

    It would have been a good export success for a neaby country with a strong craft brewing sector, if only...

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/aug/19/craft-beer-boom-uk-firms-bust-brexit
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 20,473

    BBC: "The French government is allocating €200m (£171.6m) to destroy surplus wine and support producers.

    It comes amid a cocktail of problems for the industry, including a falling demand for wine as more people drink craft beer."

    Our European neighbours waking up to the fact that beer is better than wine.

    All they need to do now is graduate from this "craft" nonsense to proper real ale and they'll be sorted.

    Cheers!

    I've drunk so much terrible (largely red) wine that hasn't felt good when drinking it, and bloody awful after - including the next day.

    I've had a handful of beauties but they are far fewer in number, rare, expensive and invariably I only have a glass or two before chucking the bottle.

    So, yes, beer is better. Except champagne.
    €200m sounds remarkably small for a French Government subsidy of anything. Will anyone even notice?
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,110
    Nigelb said:

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    It's become a big story because he refuses to apologise and the team won't play as a result.

    So there's a major power struggle between the team and the head of their association.

    And then, yes, me too happened, which means stories about powerful men brushing aside the concerns of women about lack of consent are automatically more newsworthy. Apparently women are a bit concerned about that sort of thing and they watch the news. Who knew?
    The women's team are refusing to play unless Rubiales resigns.
    It would be a seminal moment if the men's team, out of solidarity, followed their lead. Although it's not a huge issue in the big scheme of things, if the men's team declared that it was unacceptable for men to bestow unwanted lip-kisses on women that would send a message.
    Borja Iglesias already has, refusing to play for the men's national team while Rubiales is in still charge.

    Yes, I know. I was hoping that the entire men's squad might join him, as that would be a pretty powerful moment in football culture.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,681

    You are talking rubbish as usual, TSE.

    You are not '... the last person on this planet who should be giving people advice on how to stop looking like a brash, arrogant, out of touch elitist.' There are numerous people who are ahead of you in this respect, including many on this Site, myself included.

    Step aside, young man.



    Pissing down with rain here in Gloucestershire. Summer over then? :neutral:

    Blue sky and sunshine in Ayrshire, nice for football later.
  • Options

    darkage said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Fascinating article in FT on our infrastructure problems compared to other countries. Suspect it's not just the nimbys... but bit worrying there weren't more ideas to stop nimbyism.

    It’s a reaction to a reaction to a…

    The planners went mad in post war Britain. Some of the schemes that were planned were utterly insane - such as to turn London into a grid of motorways.

    We all know and love the award winning architecture that got built.

    Naturally, resistance to the inhuman type of planning and building arose.

    Equally naturally, the planners, developers and architects didn’t modify their behaviour that much. They had a fight on their hands and pushed back.

    So the other side gathered more resources and pushed back… round and round it went

    Both sides became ever more rigid. Both sides got the politicians to create laws on their behalf.

    The resulting legal and procedural conflicts then spawned a third party. The planning enquiry industry. Which is worth billions.

    The counter example is interesting. Offshore wind farms. Since fish don’t vote, and the requirement for quick, affordable Green power, the politicians granted an end run round the enquiry industry. There are planing issues and process, but it is streamlined to a considerable extent.
    I think offshore wind goes down the NSIP route. So it is the same thing really.

    You are correct about the planning Inquiry industry. There was a case recently where there was a 2 day Inquiry in the north of england where the Council had conceded before the event. So everyone sat there for 2 days and there was nothing really to discuss, except to hear the objectors. The Inspector then concluded that the Council had been unreasonable in not granting planning permission and awarded costs against it. The costs claimed by applicant cover just the appeal proceedings (presumably comprising the hiring of a barrister and consultant team to go along to the 2 day non event) were just short of half a million pounds, paid by Council tax payers.

    (By contrast, the Inspector who actually sits in these NSIP or planning Inquiries and listens to the KC's argue out every point in tedious detail, and then makes the decision is paid about £60k per year. )

    Barristers make a great play of the situation being described above being the result of political incompetence in Councils and have even suggested that Councillors should be personally liable to pay for the costs in the situation described above. In response I made the suggestion that perhaps the government should cap legal costs claimed back after planning Inquiries at something like legal aid rates; however that was obviously met with silence.


    Obviously a scandal.
    Supply side reform is really, really hard.
    This government has simply done nothing, preferring to chase headlines in the c

    I’m not sure what messaged I’d advise Rishi.
    At the end of the day, the current economic mess, while sharing many aspects with a global malaise*, has several distinctly British characteristics.

    He is not primarily to blame, but he is hardly blameless.

    His best bet was a reforming government, probably appointing Gove as DPM and Minister Plenipotentiary, and leaving the culture wars to GBTV.

    He has, after all, a decent majority.

    But parliamentary business has basically ground to a halt. He’s just managing for failure and stasis.

    Trouble with reforms is that useful ones have a bit of initial pain before future gain. And the time horizon for most MPs and voters is too short for that. So nothing happens, except for a search for something else to chuck on the fire to keep us warm a bit longer.

    Which is why one has to be hopeful about the outcome of the 2024 election. Even if lefties are lefties, Starmer is meh and MPs are short termist cowards, it's likely that the next government won't be in hock to the generation waiting for God in the same way. That might/should/must unlock some progress.
    True, but there is a constituency for making difficult but necessary reforms, especially in the wake of Covid and the electricity price rises.

    Rishi’s one flimsy calling card is that he’s “the grown up in the room”, but the truth is that he junked that card quite quickly with “Stop the Boats” crap.

    (There was a premonition of this during the leadership campaign, with increasingly nonsensical remarks in a desperate attempt to out-flank Truss, though these have been largely memory-holed).
    There is a constituency for doing uncomfortable but right things, but it's much more Centrist Dad than populist, and the Conservatives aren't in that bit of headspace right now. Lefty Tiggers did broadly get their party back, righty Tiggers are still out in the cold.

    Also- I'm reminded of a line from one of John Major's biographies. When Lambeth Conservatives won in 1968, their leader's response was "This was a fluke- we've got three years and then we're out again. So let's go down in history for being brilliant and doing the right thing."

    Team Rishi don't seem to have accepted their mortality, so they can't yet become immortal.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,762
    Andy_JS said:

    Miserable people. Continue with the optimism.

    "To cheer yourself up, buy yourself a beer". "But I have no means to pay for a beer". " Don't be a pessimist, buy yourself a beer, it will cheer you up".
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,681

    Nigelb said:

    kamski said:

    Rubiales playing the victim and getting a standing ovation from the Spanish football association. WTF? Also, pass the sick bucket.

    Why don't he just apologise and say he was overcome with excitement? It was a kiss, ffs, not aggravated rape.

    This is a headline issue? Jeepers.
    You understand the importance of symbols, surely ?
    And the point is he did the exact opposite of apologising.

    It’s not as though football itself belongs on the front pages, but it’s there all the time.
    He did apologise, just insincerely and kind of aggressively before starting to blame her......

    If he was sixty plus one might consider it generational, but he is 46, how on earth is he expecting this approach to pan out well for him?
    They need to get a life , one small spontaneous kiss when they had won world cup. Good on him for telling them where to go.
This discussion has been closed.