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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Without Scotland the electoral system would appear less bia

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  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    TGOHF said:

    norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 45s

    Govt sources say Chancellor warning over the pound means @alexsalmond has to come up with a Plan A for a Scottish currency never mind Plan B

    LOL

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,036
    isam said:

    Far from convinced that visits from politicians do anything as i am, isn't it simply wrong to say Farage arrived after Cameron?

    Farage was there Sunday, Cameron Tuesday?

    ...& how can the daily mail getting 100,000 signatures in a day backing Farages idea of using foreign aid be an example of an idea failing to take off?
    Not that it really matters, but hadn't Cameron made a visit last week?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    James Murray ‏@James_BG 15h

    Quick take on flooding latest and Cameron's commitment to tackling climate risks http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2328290/cameron-climate-change-is-a-serious-threat
    :)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @TelePolitics: Blog: Westminster dynamites Alex Salmond's currency union, causing Scottish nationalist meltdown http://t.co/izvQ9KQ7kR
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    Was hoping for a thread on the 50/1 no currency union bet that never was.

    Still nothing to stop Scotland using a dollarised pound like Gibraltar and Jersey - but if they are having to go down that route - as it is now clear there will be no currency union - why not use a currency more suited their petrochemical economy such as the US dollar or the Norwegian Krone or the Dubai Dirnham ?




    It is very far from clear yet, we have heard this posturing before. We will see if the yellow bellies actually have it in them to say NO. Cue a thousand weasely words but no clarity other than their tame BBC and press claiming they said NO. One can only hope it is true as it will be the biggest mistake ever by these donkeys.
    What is really yellow-bellied is the extraordinary self-abasement by Salmond in whining to be allowed to retain the currency of the hated oppressor. Why not say stuff yer quiddies and declare the New Scottish Franc?

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Fraser Nelson ‏@FraserNelson 50m

    It is Osborne, rather than Danny Alexander, who has "gone native" in the Treasury - an institution still wedded to the Brownite status quo.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    On topic - whatever the result of the referendum - and post Carney that looks like a resounding "NO" - there needs to be a new settlement for rUk. I doubt this will get much public discussion until the votes are counted - but could feature in the manifestos.

    LOL, YES will be trembling a diehard unionist is forecasting a no vote.
    TGOHF said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    Was hoping for a thread on the 50/1 no currency union bet that never was.

    Still nothing to stop Scotland using a dollarised pound like Gibraltar and Jersey - but if they are having to go down that route - as it is now clear there will be no currency union - why not use a currency more suited their petrochemical economy such as the US dollar or the Norwegian Krone or the Dubai Dirnham ?




    It is very far from clear yet, we have heard this posturing before. We will see if the yellow bellies actually have it in them to say NO. Cue a thousand weasely words but no clarity other than their tame BBC and press claiming they said NO. One can only hope it is true as it will be the biggest mistake ever by these donkeys.
    malcolm - can you list the upsides for rUK for having a formal currency union with Indy Scotland ?

    There are some benefits for rUk if Scotland is using a dollarised pound but that is still on offer for Salmond.

    5 for starters
    They have been printed many times.
    Dealing with one of biggest customers in same currency
    Having a better balance of trade
    Better GDP to debt ratios
    Scotland paying them £4-5B a year to help pay their debts
    1+ 2 are achieved with a dollarised pound.

    3 - maybe until the oil runs out

    4 + 5 : £5 Bn is a rounding error - the deficit came down by 10 times that in 2 years.

    Hardly worth being stuck with a foreign govt sticking their oar in on economic policy and all the associated risks, costs and voter/tabloid outrage that a currency union will bring.


  • Mr. Observer, conflict rather than consensus is necessary for a healthy democracy. To vote is to choose, but if all the parties off the same perspective due to consensus, where's the choice?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    RobD said:

    isam said:

    Far from convinced that visits from politicians do anything as i am, isn't it simply wrong to say Farage arrived after Cameron?

    Farage was there Sunday, Cameron Tuesday?

    ...& how can the daily mail getting 100,000 signatures in a day backing Farages idea of using foreign aid be an example of an idea failing to take off?
    Not that it really matters, but hadn't Cameron made a visit last week?
    You are right on both counts!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: Blog: Westminster dynamites Alex Salmond's currency union, causing Scottish nationalist meltdown http://t.co/izvQ9KQ7kR

    Quite - Pork wants to post about anything but today.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited February 2014
    The Pb tories are always wrong.The PB tories never learn.

    They still don't seem to have a clue that currency is way, way down the list of the scottish public's concerns and priorities for Independence.
    Only 3% and 2% of those polled respectively said EU membership or currency was most important to them in deciding how to vote in the referendum yet our politicians see these issues as priorities.

    http://scotlandseptember18.com/hunter-announces-second-phase-poll-results-independence/
    Not that it isn't funny watching scottish tory surgers always getting scottish public opinion wrong.

    :)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,036
    Mick_Pork said:

    The Pb tories are always wrong.The PB tories never learn.

    They still don't seem to have a clue that currency is way, way down the list of the scottish public's concerns and priorities for Independence.

    Only 3% and 2% of those polled respectively said EU membership or currency was most important to them in deciding how to vote in the referendum yet our politicians see these issues as priorities.

    http://scotlandseptember18.com/hunter-announces-second-phase-poll-results-independence/
    Not that it isn't funny watching scottish tory surgers always getting scottish public opinion wrong.

    :)

    But now it may get more important, given that doubt has been cast on Alex's plan?

  • @MorrisDancer

    Constituencies have to reflect natural geographies, otherwise you would have remote Scottish archipelagos lumped into with distant mainland areas with which they have no connection.

    That's quite a succinct summary of why Scotland in general no longer properly belongs in someone else's diversified, outward-looking market economy. North Britain is just such a "remote ...archipelago lumped in with distant mainland areas with which they have no connection" - economically, politically, or morally speaking, at least.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Mick_Pork said:

    The Pb tories are always wrong.The PB tories never learn.

    They still don't seem to have a clue that currency is way, way down the list of the scottish public's concerns and priorities for Independence.



    http://scotlandseptember18.com/hunter-announces-second-phase-poll-results-independence/
    :)

    Is this black september group website the new panacea - has wings over Somerset sunk to a watery grave ?

    You seem to have conceded the point on currency that Yes is FUBAR'ed and are now dismissing it as "not important" - seems "brave".

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    The Times of London ‏@thetimes 1h

    Today's front page: Truth about #Plebgate by No 10 duty officer http://thetim.es/NA1VtA pic.twitter.com/geaZsD0Z36

    Ted Jeory ‏@TedJeory 12h

    Cracking Times splash by @TimesCrime tomorrow. Downing St #plebgate officer says Andrew Mitchell 'did' say f***ing plebs.

    Political Scrapbook ‏@PSbook 11h

    Times front page. #Plebgate police still insisting Mitchell called them "f***ing plebs" (£) http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4003088.ece … pic.twitter.com/qhbRmLf2cL
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Mick_Pork said:

    The Times of London ‏@thetimes 1h

    Today's front page: Truth about #Plebgate by No 10 duty officer http://thetim.es/NA1VtA pic.twitter.com/geaZsD0Z36

    Ted Jeory ‏@TedJeory 12h

    Cracking Times splash by @TimesCrime tomorrow. Downing St #plebgate officer says Andrew Mitchell 'did' say f***ing plebs.

    Political Scrapbook ‏@PSbook 11h

    Times front page. #Plebgate police still insisting Mitchell called them "f***ing plebs" (£) http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4003088.ece … pic.twitter.com/qhbRmLf2cL
    Have Lansley's odds shortened further in response yet?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2014
    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    Bloody lefty Jocks!

    I saw a really interesting documentary last night - David Starkey on the last Stuart kings. In 1705 Scotland was nearly destitute. Their failed overseas colony attempts (Darien in Belize) had ruined their finances and England had become seriously frustrated with them and passed the Aliens Act - effectively closing England to Scottish trade. Meanwhile England was swimming in dosh, in no small measure due to the trade with its colonies.

    The Act of Union killed the trade restrictions with England and, importantly, with empire - and deliberate attempts were made to ensure Scotland's success as a key part of the newly created Great Britain. Scotland finally flourished and had a great 18th century. Cities like Glasgow grew at astonishing speed.

    So...back to today....can we learn anything about the prospects of an independent Scotland?
    Well, firstly it is NOT going to be in Scotland's interest to antagonise England. We'll not impose a new Aliens Act but, as much the most importsant trade partner the Scots would, they'd be very ill advised to wind the English up.
    Secondly, as the chart shows, England or rUK will be a less lefty country. That implies a more successful economy down south than would otherwise be the case - which would be good for both Scotland and rUK.

    Was that BBC? (I have a long flight tomorrow, and it would be good to download it...)
    Youtube - search 'David Starkey Monarchy' and you'll get the whole series of episodes to choose from.

    The Early Kings was great. I had never realised that the vikings had pushed the Anglo-Saxons right into the SW corner of the country before Alfred the Great fought back - and he very nearly failed, which would have meant we now speak Danish. Alfred and his lot hid in the marshes of the Somerset Levels to avoid marauding vikings - so you see, we owe our national identity and language to the floods! Alfred saved England and the English language and what do we remember him for? Burning some cakes!
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited February 2014
    RobD said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    The Pb tories are always wrong.The PB tories never learn.

    They still don't seem to have a clue that currency is way, way down the list of the scottish public's concerns and priorities for Independence.

    Only 3% and 2% of those polled respectively said EU membership or currency was most important to them in deciding how to vote in the referendum yet our politicians see these issues as priorities.

    http://scotlandseptember18.com/hunter-announces-second-phase-poll-results-independence/
    Not that it isn't funny watching scottish tory surgers always getting scottish public opinion wrong.

    :)
    But now it may get more important, given that doubt has been cast on Alex's plan?



    The labour spinners and their hangers on in the No campaign have been banging away frantically on those two issues for years asserting they aren't going to happen while that poll was backed up by a poll in November showing the precise same thing. It's still WAY down the list of priorities no matter how much some would like it wish it wasn't. Still, it keeps them busy at least and keeps them occupied on marginal issues. I'm sure that will help No with their 'grassroots' campaign. ;)
  • “George Osborne, Danny Alexander and Ed Balls are each planning to deliver an unequivocal warning that an independent Scotland could not keep the pound.”

    The aim is obviously to frighten the Scots about Independence.

    Could it create an opposite effect in upsetting the Scots when 2 English politicians and a politician from the currently least supported major party in Scotland (Lib Dem Scot Danny) treats them in this manner?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Polruan said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    The Times of London ‏@thetimes 1h

    Today's front page: Truth about #Plebgate by No 10 duty officer http://thetim.es/NA1VtA pic.twitter.com/geaZsD0Z36

    Ted Jeory ‏@TedJeory 12h

    Cracking Times splash by @TimesCrime tomorrow. Downing St #plebgate officer says Andrew Mitchell 'did' say f***ing plebs.

    Political Scrapbook ‏@PSbook 11h

    Times front page. #Plebgate police still insisting Mitchell called them "f***ing plebs" (£) http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4003088.ece … pic.twitter.com/qhbRmLf2cL
    Have Lansley's odds shortened further in response yet?


    I thought Paterson was second favourite?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Setting aside the increasingly remote possibility that Scotland does vote to become independent, what chance is there that Gordon Brown wades back in to Scottish politics to become the leader of the world's newest democracy?

    How could SLAB ignore such a wealth of experience to draw upon?

    (Although "wealth" may not be the best of words to use, save in his personal capacity on expenses....)

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2014
    malcolmg said:

    Patrick said:

    Bloody lefty Jocks!

    I saw a really interesting documentary last night - David Starkey on the last Stuart kings. In 1705 Scotland was nearly destitute. Their failed overseas colony attempts (Darien in Belize) had ruined their finances and England had become seriously frustrated with them and passed the Aliens Act - effectively closing England to Scottish trade. Meanwhile England was swimming in dosh, in no small measure due to the trade with its colonies.

    The Act of Union killed the trade restrictions with England and, importantly, with empire - and deliberate attempts were made to ensure Scotland's success as a key part of the newly created Great Britain. Scotland finally flourished and had a great 18th century. Cities like Glasgow grew at astonishing speed.

    So...back to today....can we learn anything about the prospects of an independent Scotland?
    Well, firstly it is NOT going to be in Scotland's interest to antagonise England. We'll not impose a new Aliens Act but, as much the most importsant trade partner the Scots would have, they'd be very ill advised to wind the English up.
    Secondly, as the chart shows, England or rUK will be a less lefty country. That implies a more successful economy down south than would otherwise be the case - which would be good for both Scotland and rUK.

    There speaks the real Little Englander , ruined Scotland in 1700's by spoiling the Darien scheme and trade restrictions , pillaged Scotland ever since and then the bully boy threatening if we have the temerity to want to run our own affairs. The mask slips as ever and reality is shown.
    More a Big Englander. I'd like to see England exist formally as a country with its own parliament.

    As to Scotland - I fully support your freedom to choose and DIY if you so wish. I'd say a sad farewell and wish you every luck for the future.
  • Carnyx said:

    So to me it somehow seems almost anhistorical/counterfactual, to ascribe all those undoubted effects to the Scots, when all were in the Union together and it was the overall voting pattern across the UK which allowed a dozen (or whatever it was at each time) MPs to 'materially affect' the outcome.

    This analysis seems right to me. I am reminded of a Jennings book I read when I were a lad. Jennings scored two in a cricket match against another school, a match which Linbury Court went on to win by one run. Jennings duly applauds himself for having contributed the margin of victory, in the sense that without his two they'd have lost. He is then deflated by fellow player Temple, who points out that Jennings' two would not have mattered if he, Temple, hadn't previously scored fourteen.

    It is essentially the same thing. It's like focusing on marginals to win elections when probably, to win, you need to influence all intentions your way, so that you then get the corresponding effect in the marginals.

    What has changed recently though is that 83% of Scottish votes are now cast for socialist or crypto-socialist parties on an agenda of misallocating other people's resources to them. This makes them so detached from the rUK political consensus that, even if they weren't The Country Formerly Known As Scotland, you'd start to wonder why they're still here.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2014
    "A country without its own currency is a country not only without a steering wheel, but also without brakes and an accelerator"

    Paul Hutcheon (@paulhutcheon)
    12/02/2014 09:47
    Here's what Mike Russell said about currency in his book. Plan B?

    pic.twitter.com/KFiErc4O6n
  • rcs1000 said:

    We'd then use computer algorithms to group you with similar people with similar concerns.

    Can I write the computer algorithm you use to do this?

    There are endless different ways in which such clustering algorithms can be abused to achieve desired outcomes and I'd like to have that power. Best of all, unlike geographical boundaries, it is all so densely mathematical that the process has the appearance of magic to the average person, and so any oversight of my gerrymandering would go almost entirely unchallenged.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Damian Thompson ‏@holysmoke 12h

    Ukip's Nigel Farage accuses Labour of dirty tricks with postal votes in by-election http://fw.to/mrCzGrM
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    The floods show the limits of Ukip's appeal: Nigel Farage has sunk without a trace

    Yesterday, Nigel Farage called for the formation of a new Civil Defence Corps, made up of volunteers to deal with natural disasters like the floods.

    It's a classic bit of Ukip thinking: Dave's Big Society meets Dad's Army. (The original CDC, which was wound down in 1968, was a voluntary body trained to respond to nuclear war.)

    But here's the thing. Even though he raised it during a visit to the Somerset Levels, for maximum impact and media coverage, it simply hasn't taken off as an idea.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/willheaven/100259142/the-floods-show-the-limits-of-ukips-appeal-nigel-farage-has-sunk-without-a-trace/
    Somewhat wishful thinking from the Cameroons but the fact is there is still no sign of a marked upswing in UKIPs VI and you would expect a protest vote to do well from the floods shambles.
  • TGOHF said:

    as it is now clear there will be no currency union - why not use a currency more suited their petrochemical economy such as the US dollar or the Norwegian Krone or the Dubai Dirnham ?

    I honestly think that an independent Scotland should apply to join the GCC for exactly such reasons.

    GCC countries are, generally, shambolic one-party kleptocracies with a near-100% public sector economy and ephemeral prosperity based on entirely on the consumption of mineral wealth.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    60llum ‏@60llum 13m

    Good on @Nigel_Farage for agreeing with @nick_clegg on drugs
    *chortle*
  • The highest rated comments on the BBC report of George Osborne’s announcement today show that there would be strong pressure on a UK government in negotiations with a seceding Scotland to rule out a currency union:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26147783

    Typical highly rated remarks include:

    “On 'Yes' vote, , It is Scottish people walking out of Union. RUK is not expelling Scotland from Union. hence Scotland have no moral rights to claim any ownership of Pound. Because it will be the choice wilfully made by Scottish people on 'Yes' vote.

    In case of 'Yes' vote. I believe separate currency for Scotland will make more sense. If they want independence let them have it 100%,”

    “Good. The Euro project has shown us that currency union without full political union is a recipe for disaster.”

    “You're either independent or you're not - you can't keep running back to your parents when you run out of money.”

    “The SNP has never wanted true independence , it wants all of the freedoms without any of the responsibilities. I would like to see Nicola Sturgeon give one tiny shred of evidence for her assertion that the majority of England is in favour of a currency union.”

    Whether this is a sensible policy for the rest of the UK is beside the point. If only Ladbrokes really had offered 50/1 against an independent Scotland not being part of a currency union with the rest of the UK.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 5m
    Bank of England raises UK economy growth forecast for 2014 to 3.4% from 2.8%

    BUBBLE BUBBLE !!
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Plebgate: Liberty intervenes

    Liberty, the pressure group, has intervened in the Plebgate scandal saying it would support Mr Mitchell if he is sued for libel over his claims a police officer lied about being called a 'pleb'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10632046/Plebgate-Liberty-intervenes.html
    All this does appear just too messy for Mitchell to be easily dropped in to the EU commissioners job but we wait to see how it all affects the odds.
  • Patrick said:

    Alfred saved England and the English language and what do we remember him for? Burning some cakes!

    Well, and founding the Royal Navy, and the candle clock.

    I still have that Ladybird book somewhere. He was depicted as looking like one of the Bee Gees, as I recall.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Anyone want to bet in the Wythenshawe by Election?

    Ladbrokes go even money UKIP 20-30% I'm a backer if anyone's a layer
  • isam said:

    Anyone want to bet in the Wythenshawe by Election?

    Ladbrokes go even money UKIP 20-30% I'm a backer if anyone's a layer

    Much easier just to back UKIP to come 2nd at 1/3.

  • RobD said:
    OT thanks for the link which helps justify the cost of the Telegraph subscription that used to be necessary in those far-off days when pb was dominated by links to Dan Hodges, SeanT and whatever Plato decided was more interesting than politics and betting.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    “We’re trying to come second, from the 3 per cent we won in 2010”, explained Farage to us last week. “And if we achieve that, we’ll have done well. If we get anything over 15 per cent it will be very, very, very good. Anything over 20 per cent would be ‘bloody hell!’ If we get below 10 per cent, we’d be very disappointed, but we won’t get below 10 per cent.”

    Interestingly, Farage gave us this prediction before an opinion poll by Lord Ashcroft suggested that Ukip are on course to take 15 per cent of the vote and are neck-and-neck with the Conservatives in the fight for second place. "

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukipwatch/100259223/wythenshawe-and-sale-east-ukip-cant-compete-with-labours-ruthless-operation/
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Anyone want to bet in the Wythenshawe by Election?

    Ladbrokes go even money UKIP 20-30% I'm a backer if anyone's a layer

    Much easier just to back UKIP to come 2nd at 1/3.


    I backed that at 10/11
  • TGOHF said:

    BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 5m
    Bank of England raises UK economy growth forecast for 2014 to 3.4% from 2.8%

    BUBBLE BUBBLE !!

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/feb/12/bank-england-interest-rates-hold-inflation-report

    3.4% this year, 2.7% next year, 2.8% the year after: the Bank of England evidently is expecting a period of sustained growth for Britain.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited February 2014
    antifrank said:

    The highest rated comments on the BBC report of George Osborne’s announcement today

    *tears of laughter etc.*

    Now we go direct to the Telegraph comments for a clear eyed view of Little Ed's localism plans.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/10631251/Ed-Miliband-has-a-cunning-plan-win-power-and-then-give-it-away.html

    Or just the tory dominated PB comments section for their always entertaining view of independence and the scottish public.

    :)
  • Patrick said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    Bloody lefty Jocks!

    I saw a really interesting documentary last night - David Starkey on the last Stuart kings. In 1705 Scotland was nearly destitute. Their failed overseas colony attempts (Darien in Belize) had ruined their finances and England had become seriously frustrated with them and passed the Aliens Act - effectively closing England to Scottish trade. Meanwhile England was swimming in dosh, in no small measure due to the trade with its colonies.

    The Act of Union killed the trade restrictions with England and, importantly, with empire - and deliberate attempts were made to ensure Scotland's success as a key part of the newly created Great Britain. Scotland finally flourished and had a great 18th century. Cities like Glasgow grew at astonishing speed.

    So...back to today....can we learn anything about the prospects of an independent Scotland?
    Well, firstly it is NOT going to be in Scotland's interest to antagonise England. We'll not impose a new Aliens Act but, as much the most importsant trade partner the Scots would, they'd be very ill advised to wind the English up.
    Secondly, as the chart shows, England or rUK will be a less lefty country. That implies a more successful economy down south than would otherwise be the case - which would be good for both Scotland and rUK.

    Was that BBC? (I have a long flight tomorrow, and it would be good to download it...)
    Youtube - search 'David Starkey Monarchy' and you'll get the whole series of episodes to choose from.

    The Early Kings was great. I had never realised that the vikings had pushed the Anglo-Saxons right into the SW corner of the country before Alfred the Great fought back - and he very nearly failed, which would have meant we now speak Danish. Alfred and his lot hid in the marshes of the Somerset Levels to avoid marauding vikings - so you see, we owe our national identity and language to the floods! Alfred saved England and the English language and what do we remember him for? Burning some cakes!
    Which shows the problem with teaching history as a continuous narrative. You get an 11-year-old's understanding of Saxon pattisserie, a 14-year-old's understanding of the Tudors, and, well, you get the picture.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @LadPolitics: IF Scotland becomes Independent, what will it's currency be on 1st Jan 2016?
    1/3 GBP
    3/1 New Scottish currency
    10/1 Euro
  • @DecrepitJohnL

    Who is Plato? Is he another of Tim's alternative identities, like SeanT?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Fop PR message failure already.
    ::Monk33y Business:: ‏@M0nk33y 22m

    Hours after Cameron promised 'money is no object', Transport Secretary admits: 'I don't think it is a blank cheque' http://dailym.ai/1gsZjWt
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Mick_Pork said:

    60llum ‏@60llum 13m

    Good on @Nigel_Farage for agreeing with @nick_clegg on drugs
    *chortle*

    How do we know that Nick Clegg was on drugs when Nigel Farage agreed with him?

    Also, which drugs?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    rcs1000 said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    60llum ‏@60llum 13m

    Good on @Nigel_Farage for agreeing with @nick_clegg on drugs
    *chortle*
    How do we know that Nick Clegg was on drugs when Nigel Farage agreed with him?

    Also, which drugs?

    Indeed. :)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2014

    @DecrepitJohnL

    Who is Plato? Is he another of Tim's alternative identities, like SeanT?

    Plato used to post a long time ago then put *tears of laughter or *chortles afterwards

    It was a bit pointless and annoying, but not as much as it is now!

    Sorrry if I have misunderstood, but I thought it was all an in joke thatTim, SeanT Seth O Logue and Bobajob all still post under new names? I'm not good at reading between the lines


  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2014
    rcs1000 said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    60llum ‏@60llum 13m

    Good on @Nigel_Farage for agreeing with @nick_clegg on drugs
    *chortle*
    How do we know that Nick Clegg was on drugs when Nigel Farage agreed with him?

    Also, which drugs?

    Goodness knows

    "Last week, Nick Clegg returned from a trip to South America. Goodness knows what he smoked out there, because he actually made a couple of smart points. First, the so-called War on Drugs isn’t working. Second, we should appoint a royal commission to look into the alternatives." - Nigel Farage

    Surprised Farage hasn't been called racist for associating South America with the drug trade
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    antifrank said:


    3.4% this year, 2.7% next year, 2.8% the year after: the Bank of England evidently is expecting a period of sustained growth for Britain.

    The Bank of England is not expecting a change of Government then....

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    @LadPolitics: IF Scotland becomes Independent, what will it's currency be on 1st Jan 2016?
    1/3 GBP
    3/1 New Scottish currency
    10/1 Euro

    Still no "currency union" market ? Surely some SNP mugs will have a nibble at 200/1 ?

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Olly Neville ‏@OllyNeville 39m

    Very good to see Farage pushing UKIP's pro drugs line. Finally an actual 'common sense' policy.
  • How to win friends and influence voters. Did Cameron's detoxification strategy die in vain? Conservatives used to be able to count on a couple of dozen Scottish MPs until Mrs Thatcher pissed off the entire country. Right wing voters still exist north of the border but many now vote SNP. Telling Scots they are subsidy-addicted public sector scum is not going to endear them to the Conservative cause. And on independence, while it may be entirely correct that the Scots can't run their own currency, economy or even a whelk stall without the day-to-day guidance of the Honourable Member for Tatton, putting it in those blunt terms is surely more likely to boost Yes.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,036
    edited February 2014
    Just think how enormous the growth would have been without the floods. Excuses are funny things!
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Dominic Makin ‏@Dominic_Makin 2h

    @Okwonga the gays are causing the floods. Imagine what gay immigrants would do? Tsunamis but dressed beautifully.
    *chortle*
  • Scott_P said:

    @LadPolitics: IF Scotland becomes Independent, what will it's currency be on 1st Jan 2016?
    1/3 GBP
    3/1 New Scottish currency
    10/1 Euro

    Err, the planned date for independence, in the event of a Yes vote, is March 2016.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Scott_P said:

    @LadPolitics: IF Scotland becomes Independent, what will it's currency be on 1st Jan 2016?
    1/3 GBP
    3/1 New Scottish currency
    10/1 Euro

    Err, the planned date for independence, in the event of a Yes vote, is March 2016.
    So we can back the 1/3 as a bet to nothing?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    malcolmg said:

    Patrick said:

    Bloody lefty Jocks!

    I saw a really interesting documentary last night - David Starkey on the last Stuart kings. In 1705 Scotland was nearly destitute. Their failed overseas colony attempts (Darien in Belize) had ruined their finances and England had become seriously frustrated with them and passed the Aliens Act - effectively closing England to Scottish trade. Meanwhile England was swimming in dosh, in no small measure due to the trade with its colonies.

    The Act of Union killed the trade restrictions with England and, importantly, with empire - and deliberate attempts were made to ensure Scotland's success as a key part of the newly created Great Britain. Scotland finally flourished and had a great 18th century. Cities like Glasgow grew at astonishing speed.

    So...back to today....can we learn anything about the prospects of an independent Scotland?
    Well, firstly it is NOT going to be in Scotland's interest to antagonise England. We'll not impose a new Aliens Act but, as much the most importsant trade partner the Scots would have, they'd be very ill advised to wind the English up.
    Secondly, as the chart shows, England or rUK will be a less lefty country. That implies a more successful economy down south than would otherwise be the case - which would be good for both Scotland and rUK.

    There speaks the real Little Englander , ruined Scotland in 1700's by spoiling the Darien scheme and trade restrictions , pillaged Scotland ever since and then the bully boy threatening if we have the temerity to want to run our own affairs. The mask slips as ever and reality is shown.
    rcs1000 said:

    @MorrisDancer

    Constituencies have to reflect natural geographies, otherwise you would have remote Scottish archipelagos lumped into with distant mainland areas with which they have no connection.

    That said, given we live in an Internet age, why should constituencies be geographical? Why not have a constituency of "Middle aged men who like real ale, and work in white collar jobs".

    The only reason we do things geographically is because that was the only way to do in a world where people were not mobile, and even cellular telephony was unknown.

    This would also, clearly, solve the problem of geographical migration. All constituencies could be exactly equally sized.
    Back in the 1700s, it was widely considered that different constituencies represented different interests (albeit connected to geographies) rather than geographies: some would be the ship-builders, some would be the stockbrokers, some would be the farmers, some would be the Jamaican slave plantations etc. Indeed, several MPs suggested the rebellious American colonists should simply do what everyone else did and buy a couple of pocket boroughs to give them representation.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Mr. 1000, I think you're, quite deliberately, being a silly sausage.

    Relying on people to honestly and accurately report their demographic situation is dodgy in the extreme. What if they're mendacious and seeking to gerrymander the constituency of left-handed pipe-smokers? Or, what if they're lax? Or, what if they just don't have time to report a change in circumstance?

    Geography is simple, and it works.

    I love the word 'mendacious'.

    Mr Dancer, you are stuck in the past.

    Why would you lie about your demographics? Why would you want to be represented by someone who didn't share any characteristics with you?

    In any case, the way it would work would be like this. You - or anyone else - would choose from a (resolutely non-political) list of things that described them, and would rank them according to their importance. So, if hunting is important to you, you'd put that high on your list. If you love animals, that would be on the list. If your age is important to you. Or the fact you studied philosophy. Etc etc etc

    We'd then use computer algorithms to group you with similar people with similar concerns. Sure, they would not all be identical, but your constituency would be people very like you.

    And then each of these constituencies would elect an MP.

    It would almost certainly end up with less whippable MPs. It would almost certainly end up with more independent MPs. It would certainly end up with MPs that represented, and understood the concerns of, people just like you.

    The only people who would not like it, would be the traditional party machines.
    You're making it much more complicated than it needs to be because you still have bureaucrats (albeit automated ones) putting people in arbitrary groups. Just use a single seat with 650 members. The way to get elected will be to find a natural constituency that isn't well represented and appeal to them for votes. If the voters want to group themselves geographically they'll pick somebody who lives near them and promises to represent their area. If they want to pick someone who understands their demographic they'll do that. Just get the government out of the way and let them problem solve itself.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    while it may be entirely correct that the Scots can't run their own currency, economy or even a whelk stall without the day-to-day guidance of the Honourable Member for Tatton

    Or it may be the amusingly obsequious views of those who forget the biggest change to polling since the lib dems flatlined on 10% was Osbrowne's omnishambles.


    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png


    Osbrowne couldn't tax a pasty without making an omnishambles out of it and that omnishambles was what kickstarted the kippers off of 5% to where they are now.

    Farage was gifted protest votes by Osbrowne's incompetence. Which might help explain why the kippers are struggling to improve their vote now that the omnishambles has played out and tory MPs have stopped humiliating Cammie for the moment.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Mick_Pork said:

    The Pb tories are always wrong.The PB tories never learn.

    They still don't seem to have a clue that currency is way, way down the list of the scottish public's concerns and priorities for Independence.

    Only 3% and 2% of those polled respectively said EU membership or currency was most important to them in deciding how to vote in the referendum yet our politicians see these issues as priorities.

    http://scotlandseptember18.com/hunter-announces-second-phase-poll-results-independence/
    Not that it isn't funny watching scottish tory surgers always getting scottish public opinion wrong.

    :)
    99% of the time flood defences are uppermost in the mind of about 0.0005% of the English public. Then you get a crisis, and guess what?

    Salmond is 48 hours away from a crisis on this.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Ishmael_X said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    The Pb tories are always wrong.The PB tories never learn.

    They still don't seem to have a clue that currency is way, way down the list of the scottish public's concerns and priorities for Independence.

    Only 3% and 2% of those polled respectively said EU membership or currency was most important to them in deciding how to vote in the referendum yet our politicians see these issues as priorities.

    http://scotlandseptember18.com/hunter-announces-second-phase-poll-results-independence/
    Not that it isn't funny watching scottish tory surgers always getting scottish public opinion wrong.

    :)
    99% of the time flood defences are uppermost in the mind of about 0.0005% of the English public. Then you get a crisis, and guess what?

    Salmond is 48 hours away from a crisis on this.



    "A country without its own currency is a country not only without a steering wheel, but also without brakes and an accelerator" Mike Russell SNP
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    BTW, these winds in south Devon are getting a bit hairy! There are some very, very big trees looking very, very bendy....
  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    The currency was always going to be the rock which shipwrecked HMS IndyYes.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    edited February 2014
    Mick_Pork said:

    Dominic Makin ‏@Dominic_Makin 2h

    @Okwonga the gays are causing the floods. Imagine what gay immigrants would do? Tsunamis but dressed beautifully.
    *chortle*

    I know you're fighting on a lot of fronts this morning, Mick, but do you think, wrt the currency, that there is a lack of understanding of what a currency union or non-union actually means? Presumably most people are thinking well as long as I can go to a cashpoint, get some money out and go shopping then I don't give a monkeys.

    Not that it would necessarily bear fruit but there must surely be a strand of the "No" campaign that aims to simplify what it all means. If they simplify it enough and add a few scare tactics then I would expect "Currency" to leap up the "important topics" chart.
  • Sky News really bigging up the "terrifying" storm coming in from the Atlantic. Isobel Lang is nearly wetting her knickers, virtually hysterical!
  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    isam said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    The Pb tories are always wrong.The PB tories never learn.

    They still don't seem to have a clue that currency is way, way down the list of the scottish public's concerns and priorities for Independence.

    Only 3% and 2% of those polled respectively said EU membership or currency was most important to them in deciding how to vote in the referendum yet our politicians see these issues as priorities.

    http://scotlandseptember18.com/hunter-announces-second-phase-poll-results-independence/
    Not that it isn't funny watching scottish tory surgers always getting scottish public opinion wrong.

    :)
    99% of the time flood defences are uppermost in the mind of about 0.0005% of the English public. Then you get a crisis, and guess what?

    Salmond is 48 hours away from a crisis on this.

    "A country without its own currency is a country not only without a steering wheel, but also without brakes and an accelerator" Mike Russell SNP

    "Speaking to an audience at one of Brussels' most influential think tanks - the Centre for European Policy Studies - the SNP leader Alex Salmond described the pound as ''a millstone round Scotland's neck''"

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/salmond-in-call-to-dump-millstone-of-the-pound-1.263204
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,036
    Gildas said:



    "Speaking to an audience at one of Brussels' most influential think tanks - the Centre for European Policy Studies - the SNP leader Alex Salmond described the pound as ''a millstone round Scotland's neck''"

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/salmond-in-call-to-dump-millstone-of-the-pound-1.263204

    You posted a 15 year old article?! My god you will rue the day. ;-)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TOPPING said:


    I know you're fighting on a lot of fronts this morning, Mick, but do you think, wrt the currency, that there is a lack of understanding of what a currency union or non-union actually means? Presumably most people are thinking well as long as I can go to a cashpoint, get some money out and go shopping then I don't give a monkeys.

    Yup, the CyberNats on Twitter have been pushing that all night. The question of how the notes get into the cash machine has yet to penetrate...
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Gildas said:

    The currency was always going to be the rock which shipwrecked HMS IndyYes.

    Even plucky little Iceland, pop. 340,000 (about half that of Glasgow) has its own, proper, freely floating currency.



  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Ishmael_X said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    The Pb tories are always wrong.The PB tories never learn.

    They still don't seem to have a clue that currency is way, way down the list of the scottish public's concerns and priorities for Independence.

    Only 3% and 2% of those polled respectively said EU membership or currency was most important to them in deciding how to vote in the referendum yet our politicians see these issues as priorities.

    http://scotlandseptember18.com/hunter-announces-second-phase-poll-results-independence/
    Not that it isn't funny watching scottish tory surgers always getting scottish public opinion wrong.

    :)

    Salmond is 48 hours away from a crisis on this.



    Yet again?

    April 2013
    Independent Scotland would face currency problem - Osborne

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/20/uk-britain-scotland-currency-idUKBRE93J0K020130420
    September 2012
    Scottish independence: Osborne doubts SNP currency plan

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-19512519
    February 8th 2014

    Only 3% and 2% of those polled respectively said EU membership or currency was most important to them in deciding how to vote in the referendum yet our politicians see these issues as priorities.

    http://scotlandseptember18.com/hunter-announces-second-phase-poll-results-independence/

    So forgive me for not taking right wingers views on PB very seriously when it comes to scottish public opinion and what they rank as important.




  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    RobD said:

    Gildas said:



    "Speaking to an audience at one of Brussels' most influential think tanks - the Centre for European Policy Studies - the SNP leader Alex Salmond described the pound as ''a millstone round Scotland's neck''"

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/salmond-in-call-to-dump-millstone-of-the-pound-1.263204

    You posted a 15 year old article?! My god you will rue the day. ;-)
    From 2009: "In an interview with Spanish television, the First Minister said there is a strong argument for making the switch to the euro as the economic crisis causes Sterling's value to plummet... chuckling to himself, [Salmond] told his Catalan interviewer that "Sterling is sinking like a stone"."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/4143731/Alex-Salmond-Euro-membership-is-a-strong-argument-for-independence.html

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    isam said:

    @DecrepitJohnL

    Who is Plato? Is he another of Tim's alternative identities, like SeanT?

    Plato used to post a long time ago then put *tears of laughter or *chortles afterwards

    It was a bit pointless and annoying, but not as much as it is now!

    Sorrry if I have misunderstood, but I thought it was all an in joke thatTim, SeanT Seth O Logue and Bobajob all still post under new names? I'm not good at reading between the lines


    SeanT wouldn't cower under another name though, would he? This is a "discreet" blog after all.

    *chortle*
  • Would a better Plan A not be simply to have a new Scottish currency? There' so much political, economic and cultural baggage associated with either Sterling or the Euro - plus the fact that either of those two means no real independence at all.

    I don't really get why the Thistle or the Groat or the Sporran or whatever it is to be called is not the automatic preference for a self respecting independent country. Seems weird.
  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    Mick_Pork said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    The Pb tories are always wrong.The PB tories never learn.

    They still don't seem to have a clue that currency is way, way down the list of the scottish public's concerns and priorities for Independence.

    Only 3% and 2% of those polled respectively said EU membership or currency was most important to them in deciding how to vote in the referendum yet our politicians see these issues as priorities.

    http://scotlandseptember18.com/hunter-announces-second-phase-poll-results-independence/
    Not that it isn't funny watching scottish tory surgers always getting scottish public opinion wrong.

    :)

    Salmond is 48 hours away from a crisis on this.

    Yet again?

    April 2013
    Independent Scotland would face currency problem - Osborne

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/20/uk-britain-scotland-currency-idUKBRE93J0K020130420
    September 2012
    Scottish independence: Osborne doubts SNP currency plan

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-19512519
    February 8th 2014

    Only 3% and 2% of those polled respectively said EU membership or currency was most important to them in deciding how to vote in the referendum yet our politicians see these issues as priorities.

    http://scotlandseptember18.com/hunter-announces-second-phase-poll-results-independence/

    So forgive me for not taking right wingers views on PB very seriously when it comes to scottish public opinion and what they rank as important.






    The polls show that a personal financial gain or loss of £500 would persuade large numbers of Scots to vote Yes or No to independence.

    Introducing fundamental doubts about the basic management and structure of the independent Scottish economy (I mean, there's only 7 months to go and they still haven't decided what currency they want to use??!!) will impact voter wariness on the personal potential cost of independence. It just doesn't look very impressive.

    Why don't you go for the groat. Nothing wrong with the groat.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Mick_Pork said:

    isam said:

    @DecrepitJohnL

    Who is Plato? Is he another of Tim's alternative identities, like SeanT?

    Plato used to post a long time ago then put *tears of laughter or *chortles afterwards

    It was a bit pointless and annoying, but not as much as it is now!

    Sorrry if I have misunderstood, but I thought it was all an in joke thatTim, SeanT Seth O Logue and Bobajob all still post under new names? I'm not good at reading between the lines


    SeanT wouldn't cower under another name though, would he? This is a "discreet" blog after all.

    *chortle*
    Who knows? I assumed they were all back under aliases
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    One thing that is overlooked is how skewed Scotland has become towards Labour.

    Looking at the net Scottish seat position since 1945 (+ve is Labour over Conservative)

    2010: +40
    2005: +39
    2001: +54
    1997: +56
    1992: +38
    1987: +40
    1983: +20
    1979: +22
    1974O: +25
    1974F: +19
    1970: +21
    1966: +26
    1964: +20
    1959: +7
    1955: -2
    1951: 0
    1950: +5
    1945: +7


    If the present level of skewness had existed throughout the period, Labour would have won working majorities in 1950 and 1974O, would have won rather than lost the 1951 election, and the Tories would have had significantly smaller majorities in 1992 and 1979, 1970 and 1955.

    In a case where the Tories are less than 40 seats ahead of Labour (sans Scotland), Labour would finish ahead in seats overall. The Tories need to be about 130 seats ahead of Labour (sans Scotland) just to win a bare UK majority.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,036
    Patrick said:

    Would a better Plan A not be simply to have a new Scottish currency? There' so much political, economic and cultural baggage associated with either Sterling or the Euro - plus the fact that either of those two means no real independence at all.

    I don't really get why the Thistle or the Groat or the Sporran or whatever it is to be called is not the automatic preference for a self respecting independent country. Seems weird.

    Maybe keeping Sterling makes independence seem a bit safer, as it were.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Patrick said:

    Would a better Plan A not be simply to have a new Scottish currency? There' so much political, economic and cultural baggage associated with either Sterling or the Euro - plus the fact that either of those two means no real independence at all.

    I don't really get why the Thistle or the Groat or the Sporran or whatever it is to be called is not the automatic preference for a self respecting independent country. Seems weird.

    Salmond's trying a new approach whereby a couple get divorced but keep their joint bank account. Can't see that working somehow.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Patrick said:

    Would a better Plan A not be simply to have a new Scottish currency? There' so much political, economic and cultural baggage associated with either Sterling or the Euro - plus the fact that either of those two means no real independence at all.

    I don't really get why the Thistle or the Groat or the Sporran or whatever it is to be called is not the automatic preference for a self respecting independent country. Seems weird.

    ? he thinks it would be a waste of money because they'd have to retool yet again for the Euro within a couple of years?

    But he looks increasingly pathetic on this.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Right wingers want to drag up the past on economics? Really?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR_hfQU-4r0

    There is no money left. Or is there?
    The Telegraph ‏@Telegraph 5h

    Good morning. Today's splash: Money no object in battle to end flooding misery, Cameron says http://fw.to/Gz2vntR by @jameskirkup
    Oh right there is.
    LBC ‏@LBC 2m

    Confusion at Number 10? PM: 'money no object' when it comes to floods. Transport Sec: no 'blank check' http://l-bc.co/2ZCppS #LBCnews
    No, wait, maybe there isn't.

    LOL

    Shambolic.
  • Mick_Pork said:

    antifrank said:

    The highest rated comments on the BBC report of George Osborne’s announcement today

    *tears of laughter etc.*

    Now we go direct to the Telegraph comments for a clear eyed view of Little Ed's localism plans.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/10631251/Ed-Miliband-has-a-cunning-plan-win-power-and-then-give-it-away.html

    Or just the tory dominated PB comments section for their always entertaining view of independence and the scottish public.

    :)
    Congratulations on completely missing my point.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    I feel one of my life's works here has been fulfilled as PBers discuss aspects of Scottish history without me ....

    Stiffles a wobbling chin ....

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited February 2014
    Gildas said:

    The polls show that a personal financial gain or loss of £500 would persuade large numbers of Scots to vote Yes or No to independence.

    And how do you expect that same question would affect westmisnter voting intention when put for labour or the tories winning?

    Exactly.

    Next.
  • Patrick said:

    Would a better Plan A not be simply to have a new Scottish currency? There' so much political, economic and cultural baggage associated with either Sterling or the Euro - plus the fact that either of those two means no real independence at all.

    I don't really get why the Thistle or the Groat or the Sporran or whatever it is to be called is not the automatic preference for a self respecting independent country. Seems weird.

    If they issued a crypto-currency with low transaction fees, pseudonymity and no censorship, then pegged their currency to the pound, dollar or euro, they could pay for public spending purely by printing money, and they wouldn't need taxes.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    EU not that supportive of Eck charging English students differents fees post Indy.

    Any attempt to treat Scottish and non-Scottish students differently could be regarded as “a covert form of discrimination on grounds of nationality”, European commissioner for education Androulla Vassiliou said.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/education/no-precedent-for-charging-english-students-eu-1-3302928
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Patrick said:

    Would a better Plan A not be simply to have a new Scottish currency? There' so much political, economic and cultural baggage associated with either Sterling or the Euro - plus the fact that either of those two means no real independence at all.

    I don't really get why the Thistle or the Groat or the Sporran or whatever it is to be called is not the automatic preference for a self respecting independent country. Seems weird.

    If they issued a crypto-currency with low transaction fees, pseudonymity and no censorship, then pegged their currency to the pound, dollar or euro, they could pay for public spending purely by printing money, and they wouldn't need taxes.
    They'd be safer using bitcoin.
  • If they issued a crypto-currency with low transaction fees, pseudonymity and no censorship, then pegged their currency to the pound, dollar or euro, they could pay for public spending purely by printing money, and they wouldn't need taxes.

    There's a little teeny logical flaw in that....
  • Yes but what caused that inflection under the previous Conservative hegemony? Instead of writing off Scottish voters alienated by Thatcher/Major, Conservatives should aim to win them back, as they did in England and Wales under Cameron's detoxification strategy.
    RodCrosby said:

    One thing that is overlooked is how skewed Scotland has become towards Labour.

    Looking at the net Scottish seat position since 1945 (+ve is Labour over Conservative)

    2010: +40
    2005: +39
    2001: +54
    1997: +56
    1992: +38
    1987: +40
    1983: +20
    1979: +22
    1974O: +25
    1974F: +19
    1970: +21
    1966: +26
    1964: +20
    1959: +7
    1955: -2
    1951: 0
    1950: +5
    1945: +7


    If the present level of skewness had existed throughout the period, Labour would have won working majorities in 1950 and 1974O, would have won rather than lost the 1951 election, and the Tories would have had significantly smaller majorities in 1992 and 1979, 1970 and 1955.

    In a case where the Tories are less than 40 seats ahead of Labour (sans Scotland), Labour would finish ahead in seats overall. The Tories need to be about 130 seats ahead of Labour (sans Scotland) just to win a bare UK majority.

  • A currency union is perfectly possible between an independent Scotland and the rUK. The problem for Salmond is that it would have to be entirely on the rUK's terms. There is absolutely no negotiation leverage for the Scots. They would have to take the terms offered by the rUK or they would have to develop their own currency. The choice is the same with the Euro - either do as the Eurozone says, or do your own thing. Everybody knows this, but for obvious reasons no-one will publicly admit it.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Conservative MP Karen Lumley resplendent in the HoC with purple hair .... sitting next to Michael Fabricant clearly has side effects ....
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited February 2014

    Yes but what caused that inflection under the previous Conservative hegemony? Instead of writing off Scottish voters alienated by Thatcher/Major, Conservatives should aim to win them back, as they did in England and Wales under Cameron's detoxification strategy.

    You see any sign of that from the PB Tories, right-wingers and CCHQ drones on here?

    They can't help themselves and just keep right on digging.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2014

    Patrick said:

    Would a better Plan A not be simply to have a new Scottish currency? There' so much political, economic and cultural baggage associated with either Sterling or the Euro - plus the fact that either of those two means no real independence at all.

    I don't really get why the Thistle or the Groat or the Sporran or whatever it is to be called is not the automatic preference for a self respecting independent country. Seems weird.

    If they issued a crypto-currency with low transaction fees, pseudonymity and no censorship, then pegged their currency to the pound, dollar or euro, they could pay for public spending purely by printing money, and they wouldn't need taxes.
    Erm..what? I'm being thick or you're being obtuse but I don't really understand what you said. Pegging currencies is never a good idea. Ever. Scotland would have a George Soros moment sooner or later when the peg became unsustainable.

    Some, like MalcolmG, think I denigrate Scotland. Not at all. And I was very happy there as a student. An independent Scotland could be great place - but only if it is really independent. A free floating currency, free markets and sound money are what Scotland needs. Adam Smith, one of Scotland's greatest sons, was right about economics. Pegging the Groat to the Sassenach bastards' currency would be giant clusterfu<k of a policy.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "Alfred the Great fought back - and he very nearly failed, which would have meant we now speak Danish."

    Which is a bit of an odd comment because in 1016 England came to have a Danish King. Good old Canute who a couple of years later united the crowns of England and Denmark and created a North Sea empire, which expanded to include Norway and bits of Sweden. So in term sof protecting England from the Danes, Alfred really need not have bothered.

    As an aside the shenanigans that went on between his sons after Canute's death would make a wonderful modern novel - you've got everything love (well sex), betrayal, murder, war, and false family trees (usually a sign of incest) all topped off by a lust for power and eventual tragedy (William the Bastard winning at Hastings).
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Patrick said:

    Pegging the Groat to the Sassenach bastards' currency would be giant clusterfu

    LOL
  • "Alfred the Great fought back - and he very nearly failed, which would have meant we now speak Danish."

    Which is a bit of an odd comment because in 1016 England came to have a Danish King. Good old Canute who a couple of years later united the crowns of England and Denmark and created a North Sea empire, which expanded to include Norway and bits of Sweden. So in term sof protecting England from the Danes, Alfred really need not have bothered.

    As an aside the shenanigans that went on between his sons after Canute's death would make a wonderful modern novel - you've got everything love (well sex), betrayal, murder, war, and false family trees (usually a sign of incest) all topped off by a lust for power and eventual tragedy (William the Bastard winning at Hastings).

    I did my dissertation on Canute. He was a very clever man. He used patronage expertly. As the first King of England with an overseas empire he had to develop a power network that none of his predecessors had needed. The fact that he was able to spend years of his reign outside England and not be challenged shows how successful he was.

  • Vote rigging at Westminster cat-of-the-year contest!

    2 MPs have withdrawn their cats

    Here's the one left in competition

    www.battersea.org.uk/cats/purr_minister/

    Kevin, nominated by Bill Esterson, MP for Sefton Central
    Montague, nominated by Justin Tomlinson, MP for Swindon North
    Monty, nominated by Rt. Hon. Lord McNally
    Parsnip, nominated by Mark Spencer, MP for Sherwood
    Paul, nominated by Rt. Hon. Baroness Quin
    Scaredy-Cat, nominated by Sarah Champion, MP for Rotherham
    Tommy, nominated by Rt Hon Sir Greg Knight, MP for East Yorkshire

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Panic.
    Ampp3d ‏@ampp3d 4m

    MT @SamCoatesTimes Tory chief whip sends urgent clarification to MPs on what 'money is no object' actually means pic.twitter.com/yZgxORPYzV
    Shambles.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2014
    I don't think the "Money no object" line from Cameron is wise

    Can see it being made into some kind of you tube "rap" ft photos of PMs posh mates, Bullingdon Club etc etc
  • Mr. Observer, English kings faced very regular challenges in the succeeding centuries, which would seem to make Canute's overseas trips (without challenge) even more impressive.
This discussion has been closed.