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How the LDs are using their by-election victories – politicalbetting.com

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  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    edited July 2023
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, this morning my much loved elderly (15) cat died, at home, peacefully, painlessly, and cuddled up with the family.

    I know it sounds soft-headed but we have all been very sad today, the children especially, as they grew up with him. He's been getting weaker for the past few weeks so has been very insistent on sitting on our laps the moment we sit down as if wanting closeness and reassurance.

    Our dog is 13 and I dread the day he goes.

    Condolences on your and the family's loss.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    Nigelb said:

    Man wrongly jailed for rape may have to pay for prison ‘board and lodgings’
    Andrew Malkinson says he will be liable to pay back money to prison service if he wins compensation

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/27/innocent-andrew-malkinson-wrongful-conviction-compensation/ (£££)

    The Telegraph has been reading PB. This is exactly the question I raised yesterday evening.
    Disgraceful - but it is perhaps the least of the injustices visited on him.
    From the reported facts , is wouks seem that not only was he fitted up by the police, they continued to withhold evidence long after his conviction.

    And GMP continue to spin the line that it was an unfortunate mistake.
    And a straight line runs through the thinking that fiddling evidence and leaking bullshit to the press about how guilty people are, from this… to other things.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    edited July 2023
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, this morning my much loved elderly (15) cat died, at home, peacefully, painlessly, and cuddled up with the family.

    I know it sounds soft-headed but we have all been very sad today, the children especially, as they grew up with him. He's been getting weaker for the past few weeks so has been very insistent on sitting on our laps the moment we sit down as if wanting closeness and reassurance.

    Our dog is 13 and I dread the day he goes.

    I'm sorry to hear that Cyclefree.
    But 15 is a good age for a cat, and, it sounds, a good death. Sadness is entirely understandable and appropriate, but also some joy that he lived so well. It may sound silly, but it is a sadness you can enjoy, because it is not one tinged with regret that things can or should have been different. Just a genuine and heartfelt lament that he was and is no more. He lived, and was loved, and brought happiness, and who among us can ask for much more than that?
    I remember when my old cat died. Oh, I cried for hours. But he had lived to his late teens and wrung just about as much out of life as is possible. I still miss him, despite three new cats. He was ace. The sadness of losing him is just a small price to pay for the happiness he brought in life.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    edited July 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Man wrongly jailed for rape may have to pay for prison ‘board and lodgings’
    Andrew Malkinson says he will be liable to pay back money to prison service if he wins compensation

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/27/innocent-andrew-malkinson-wrongful-conviction-compensation/ (£££)

    The Telegraph has been reading PB. This is exactly the question I raised yesterday evening.
    Disgraceful - but it is perhaps the least of the injustices visited on him.
    From the reported facts , is wouks seem that not only was he fitted up by the police, they continued to withhold evidence long after his conviction.

    And GMP continue to spin the line that it was an unfortunate mistake.
    There's a reason why the GMP is one of the 5 police forces in special measures.

    But this sort of misconduct is very similar to the police misconduct in the Irish miscarriages of justice in the 1970's. Which shows that, despite all the legal and evidential changes brought in to stop that happening again, if the character of those in the police force hasn't changed, the rest is for naught.

    As for the compensation, the government has adopted the approach used in civil claims ie you are put in the position you would have been in had the tort not happened. But it feels wrong and insulting to charge you B&B for a prison stay you should not have endured and would not have paid for if it had been on offer in a marketplace. It is all part of the way the government has over years chiselled away at the idea of justice and compensation for injustice.

    I am now increasingly of the view that the state is - on many levels - actively harmful to and malicious towards its citizens.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    Leon said:

    Congrats to @DavidL

    Still can’t work out if the owls are a joke, an allegory, or a piece of legendary nuptial theatre

    Owls are not uncommon these days, apparently.
    I was talking to a vicar a few years back who has banned them after one too many occasions of them electing to take the rings up to the high beams of the church and sit there, gormlessly, for ages. Pleased that David's daughter's owls were more co-operative.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Congrats to @DavidL

    Still can’t work out if the owls are a joke, an allegory, or a piece of legendary nuptial theatre

    Owls are not uncommon these days, apparently.
    I was talking to a vicar a few years back who has banned them after one too many occasions of them electing to take the rings up to the high beams of the church and sit there, gormlessly, for ages. Pleased that David's daughter's owls were more co-operative.
    They weren't being gormless. In their wisdom, they were making a very pointed comment about the unsuitability of the proposed union.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Man wrongly jailed for rape may have to pay for prison ‘board and lodgings’
    Andrew Malkinson says he will be liable to pay back money to prison service if he wins compensation

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/27/innocent-andrew-malkinson-wrongful-conviction-compensation/ (£££)

    The Telegraph has been reading PB. This is exactly the question I raised yesterday evening.
    Disgraceful - but it is perhaps the least of the injustices visited on him.
    From the reported facts , is wouks seem that not only was he fitted up by the police, they continued to withhold evidence long after his conviction.

    And GMP continue to spin the line that it was an unfortunate mistake.
    There's a reason why the GMP is one of the 5 police forces in special measures.

    But this sort of misconduct is very similar to the police misconduct in the Irish miscarriages of justice in the 1970's. Which shows that, despite all the legal and evidential changes brought in to stop that happening again, if the character of those in the police force hasn't changed, the rest is for naught.

    As for the compensation, the government has adopted the approach used in civil claims ie you are put in the position you would have been in had the tort not happened. But it feels wrong and insulting to charge you B&B for a prison stay you should not have endured and would not have paid for if it had been on offer in a marketplace. It is all part of the way the government has over years chiselled away at the idea of justice and compensation for injustice.

    I am now increasingly of the view that the state is - on many levels - actively harmful to and malicious towards its citizens.
    A favourite was Sir Ian Fucking Blair pronouncing that shooting a small number of people for Being Brown was just one of those things. And we should be grateful.

    Sort of Act Of God Met.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited July 2023
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Congrats to @DavidL

    Still can’t work out if the owls are a joke, an allegory, or a piece of legendary nuptial theatre

    Owls are not uncommon these days, apparently.
    I was talking to a vicar a few years back who has banned them after one too many occasions of them electing to take the rings up to the high beams of the church and sit there, gormlessly, for ages. Pleased that David's daughter's owls were more co-operative.
    Well I never!

    I am now girding myself for my own daughters’ wedding-day owl-demands, in about a decade
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395

    Scott_xP said:

    A Brexit vote was inevitable

    Yes and no.

    When the BBC put Nigel Fucking Farage on Question Time every week for 3 years, perhaps, but they didn't need to do that.

    When Tory politicians ran scared of him instead of laughing at him, perhaps, but they didn't need to do that.

    He tried to get elected 7 times, and 7 times the voters told him where to stick it.

    If the 'establishment' had done the same, Brexit was not inevitable.
    You know, it was the remain camp who lost the vote by failing to make the case which should have been far easier

    Yes Farage was a forceful campaigner, but the establishment took the electorate for granted hence why vote leave won
    No, Leave wasn't defined, so it could mean whatever people wanted it to - and some of those were contradictory. Cameron should have got the Leave campaigns to define what it meant before the referendum was called.

    Scott_xP said:

    A Brexit vote was inevitable

    Yes and no.

    When the BBC put Nigel Fucking Farage on Question Time every week for 3 years, perhaps, but they didn't need to do that.

    When Tory politicians ran scared of him instead of laughing at him, perhaps, but they didn't need to do that.

    He tried to get elected 7 times, and 7 times the voters told him where to stick it.

    If the 'establishment' had done the same, Brexit was not inevitable.
    You know, it was the remain camp who lost the vote by failing to make the case which should have been far easier

    Yes Farage was a forceful campaigner, but the establishment took the electorate for granted hence why vote leave won
    No, Leave wasn't defined, so it could mean whatever people wanted it to - and some of those were contradictory. Cameron should have got the Leave campaigns to define what it meant before the referendum was called.
    But if he had defined what "No" meant in the Scottish IndyRef he would have lost.
    Tbf he, or his cats paws, made it very clear that voting no was the means of retaining EU membership. We’re still in, right?
    Oh yes, and with a stable currency and stable economy and a much stronger defence. And no alien invasions either.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    It's quite funny watching the deeply-confused Commentariat desperately trying to comprehend how Farage is still on the scene at all and has befuddled them all - yet again.

    It's much easier to dial-up the insults or accuse his admirers of false consciousness, that engage with that, and sometimes both, so lo and behold that's what we're seeing.

    It shouldn't befuddle them. Farage is really the only highly skilled politician that we have in this country. Our tragedy is that he is fundamentally wrong about everything.
    I disagree with him on much but on many things but he really isn't - he's filling a vacuum that no-one else dare enter, and that's why he gets traction.

    To stop him getting traction you should ask why mainstream politicians can't engage with the issues he raises and come up with better solutions, because they seem to prefer to wrinkling up their noses, clothes-pegging themselves and condemning him and his supporters.

    So he keeps coming back and disorientating them time after time after time. And they never learn.
    What does he engage with that no other mainstream lpolitician doesn't? We have a government constantly banging on about migrants etc.

    They though are in the more difficult position of actually having to do something, rather than sounding off like a saloon room bore.

    What policy has Farage ever delivered in his years in politics? Even Brexit wasn't delivered by him, and increasingly that is the Tory Party's concrete overshoes.
    Brexit wouldn't have happened without Farage. Along with the two Etonian PMs, the three of them were each necessary and jointly sufficient.
    (Maybe Corbyn as Labour leader was necessary too, that's debatable).
    Cameron led the Remain campaign, effectively the EU referendum was Eton and Oxford v Eton and Oxford, Boris v Dave.
    Obama's back of the queue was a huge misspeak
    Indeed, but not inaccurate.
    It was completely inaccurate because there is no queue.
    How's that Brexit deal with the USA working out?
    When did the USA last sign a trade deal with anyone?

    How is France's submarine deal with Australia working out?
    Vote Leave droned on about a US trade deal, they didn’t talk about submarines .
    Hang on a minute... I thought the line was that they never said anything about leaving the SM/CU? How would a trade deal with the US be possible in that case?
    Well that was because Vote Leave told different people about different Brexits, knowing that they were incompatible.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Congrats to @DavidL

    Still can’t work out if the owls are a joke, an allegory, or a piece of legendary nuptial theatre

    Owls are not uncommon these days, apparently.
    I was talking to a vicar a few years back who has banned them after one too many occasions of them electing to take the rings up to the high beams of the church and sit there, gormlessly, for ages. Pleased that David's daughter's owls were more co-operative.
    Well I never!

    I am now girding myself for my own daughters’ wedding-day owl-demands, in about a decade
    Better owls than me - I dropped them at the altar.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    .
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, this morning my much loved elderly (15) cat died, at home, peacefully, painlessly, and cuddled up with the family.

    I know it sounds soft-headed but we have all been very sad today, the children especially, as they grew up with him. He's been getting weaker for the past few weeks so has been very insistent on sitting on our laps the moment we sit down as if wanting closeness and reassurance.

    Our dog is 13 and I dread the day he goes.

    Doesn't sound silly to me at all.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Man wrongly jailed for rape may have to pay for prison ‘board and lodgings’
    Andrew Malkinson says he will be liable to pay back money to prison service if he wins compensation

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/27/innocent-andrew-malkinson-wrongful-conviction-compensation/ (£££)

    The Telegraph has been reading PB. This is exactly the question I raised yesterday evening.
    Disgraceful - but it is perhaps the least of the injustices visited on him.
    From the reported facts , is wouks seem that not only was he fitted up by the police, they continued to withhold evidence long after his conviction.

    And GMP continue to spin the line that it was an unfortunate mistake.
    There's a reason why the GMP is one of the 5 police forces in special measures.

    But this sort of misconduct is very similar to the police misconduct in the Irish miscarriages of justice in the 1970's. Which shows that, despite all the legal and evidential changes brought in to stop that happening again, if the character of those in the police force hasn't changed, the rest is for naught.

    As for the compensation, the government has adopted the approach used in civil claims ie you are put in the position you would have been in had the tort not happened. But it feels wrong and insulting to charge you B&B for a prison stay you should not have endured and would not have paid for if it had been on offer in a marketplace. It is all part of the way the government has over years chiselled away at the idea of justice and compensation for injustice.

    I am now increasingly of the view that the state is - on many levels - actively harmful to and malicious towards its citizens.
    I wonder if he is supposed to pay income tax on the money that goes towards his B&B and electricity etc.

    Aren't the PO doing something similar?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Man wrongly jailed for rape may have to pay for prison ‘board and lodgings’
    Andrew Malkinson says he will be liable to pay back money to prison service if he wins compensation

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/27/innocent-andrew-malkinson-wrongful-conviction-compensation/ (£££)

    The Telegraph has been reading PB. This is exactly the question I raised yesterday evening.
    Disgraceful - but it is perhaps the least of the injustices visited on him.
    From the reported facts , is wouks seem that not only was he fitted up by the police, they continued to withhold evidence long after his conviction.

    And GMP continue to spin the line that it was an unfortunate mistake.
    There's a reason why the GMP is one of the 5 police forces in special measures.

    But this sort of misconduct is very similar to the police misconduct in the Irish miscarriages of justice in the 1970's. Which shows that, despite all the legal and evidential changes brought in to stop that happening again, if the character of those in the police force hasn't changed, the rest is for naught.

    As for the compensation, the government has adopted the approach used in civil claims ie you are put in the position you would have been in had the tort not happened. But it feels wrong and insulting to charge you B&B for a prison stay you should not have endured and would not have paid for if it had been on offer in a marketplace. It is all part of the way the government has over years chiselled away at the idea of justice and compensation for injustice.

    I am now increasingly of the view that the state is - on many levels - actively harmful to and malicious towards its citizens.
    Yes, we do need to swap stories about education.

    That will remove any remaining doubts you may have.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Congrats to @DavidL

    Still can’t work out if the owls are a joke, an allegory, or a piece of legendary nuptial theatre

    Owls are not uncommon these days, apparently.
    I was talking to a vicar a few years back who has banned them after one too many occasions of them electing to take the rings up to the high beams of the church and sit there, gormlessly, for ages. Pleased that David's daughter's owls were more co-operative.
    Well I never!

    I am now girding myself for my own daughters’ wedding-day owl-demands, in about a decade
    Things will have moved on by then, no doubt. It will be lizards, or drones, or time travellers from the 16th century.

    Nothing like that at my wedding, I would stress. All very traditional, albeit in a secular setting. I still watch the video from time to time. You can read my wife's lips as her father is escorting down the stairs into the room where the ceremony took place. "Shitty bollocks", I think were her last words as a single woman.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    When the Owl married the Pussy Cat the ring was provided by the Piggywig
    … is it a variation on this model?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,772
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Congrats to @DavidL

    Still can’t work out if the owls are a joke, an allegory, or a piece of legendary nuptial theatre

    Owls are not uncommon these days, apparently.
    I was talking to a vicar a few years back who has banned them after one too many occasions of them electing to take the rings up to the high beams of the church and sit there, gormlessly, for ages. Pleased that David's daughter's owls were more co-operative.
    Well I never!

    I am now girding myself for my own daughters’ wedding-day owl-demands, in about a decade
    Things will have moved on by then, no doubt. It will be lizards, or drones, or time travellers from the 16th century.

    Nothing like that at my wedding, I would stress. All very traditional, albeit in a secular setting. I still watch the video from time to time. You can read my wife's lips as her father is escorting down the stairs into the room where the ceremony took place. "Shitty bollocks", I think were her last words as a single woman.
    Surely it will be Woke Aliens in AI managed UFOs?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Man wrongly jailed for rape may have to pay for prison ‘board and lodgings’
    Andrew Malkinson says he will be liable to pay back money to prison service if he wins compensation

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/27/innocent-andrew-malkinson-wrongful-conviction-compensation/ (£££)

    The Telegraph has been reading PB. This is exactly the question I raised yesterday evening.
    Disgraceful - but it is perhaps the least of the injustices visited on him.
    From the reported facts , is wouks seem that not only was he fitted up by the police, they continued to withhold evidence long after his conviction.

    And GMP continue to spin the line that it was an unfortunate mistake.
    There's a reason why the GMP is one of the 5 police forces in special measures.

    But this sort of misconduct is very similar to the police misconduct in the Irish miscarriages of justice in the 1970's. Which shows that, despite all the legal and evidential changes brought in to stop that happening again, if the character of those in the police force hasn't changed, the rest is for naught.

    As for the compensation, the government has adopted the approach used in civil claims ie you are put in the position you would have been in had the tort not happened. But it feels wrong and insulting to charge you B&B for a prison stay you should not have endured and would not have paid for if it had been on offer in a marketplace. It is all part of the way the government has over years chiselled away at the idea of justice and compensation for injustice.

    I am now increasingly of the view that the state is - on many levels - actively harmful to and malicious towards its citizens.
    I wonder if he is supposed to pay income tax on the money that goes towards his B&B and electricity etc.

    Aren't the PO doing something similar?
    Yes they are. It is the most fucked up compensation scheme imaginable, designed by a City law firm with a conflict of interest, which has recently resigned. It has led to people being awarded sums and then losing about 95% of it to tax and bankruptcy. One of the few subpostmasters to get any sort of compensation was so fucked around that he could not afford to heat his house this last winter.

    The judge has urged the government to sort this out properly. Everyone who has looked at this has urged the government to do the decent thing but they are blind, deaf and dumb.

    Perhaps the subpostmasters should claim they are being persecuted for their political views. Then Kemi might find the moral compass she's hidden thus far.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Congrats to @DavidL

    Still can’t work out if the owls are a joke, an allegory, or a piece of legendary nuptial theatre

    Owls are not uncommon these days, apparently.
    I was talking to a vicar a few years back who has banned them after one too many occasions of them electing to take the rings up to the high beams of the church and sit there, gormlessly, for ages. Pleased that David's daughter's owls were more co-operative.
    They weren't being gormless. In their wisdom, they were making a very pointed comment about the unsuitability of the proposed union.
    In India, owls are symbolic of stupidity.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,491
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Congrats to @DavidL

    Still can’t work out if the owls are a joke, an allegory, or a piece of legendary nuptial theatre

    Owls are not uncommon these days, apparently.
    I was talking to a vicar a few years back who has banned them after one too many occasions of them electing to take the rings up to the high beams of the church and sit there, gormlessly, for ages. Pleased that David's daughter's owls were more co-operative.
    Well I never!

    I am now girding myself for my own daughters’ wedding-day owl-demands, in about a decade
    Things will have moved on by then, no doubt. It will be lizards, or drones, or time travellers from the 16th century.

    Nothing like that at my wedding, I would stress. All very traditional, albeit in a secular setting. I still watch the video from time to time. You can read my wife's lips as her father is escorting down the stairs into the room where the ceremony took place. "Shitty bollocks", I think were her last words as a single woman.
    Understandable.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,153
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Congrats to @DavidL

    Still can’t work out if the owls are a joke, an allegory, or a piece of legendary nuptial theatre

    Owls are not uncommon these days, apparently.
    I was talking to a vicar a few years back who has banned them after one too many occasions of them electing to take the rings up to the high beams of the church and sit there, gormlessly, for ages. Pleased that David's daughter's owls were more co-operative.
    Well I never!

    I am now girding myself for my own daughters’ wedding-day owl-demands, in about a decade
    Things will have moved on by then, no doubt. It will be lizards, or drones, or time travellers from the 16th century.

    Nothing like that at my wedding, I would stress. All very traditional, albeit in a secular setting. I still watch the video from time to time. You can read my wife's lips as her father is escorting down the stairs into the room where the ceremony took place. "Shitty bollocks", I think were her last words as a single woman.
    Surely it will be Woke Aliens in AI managed UFOs?
    Woke Trans Gay Illegal Alien AIs, surely?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992
    Evening all :)

    As usual, late to the party (the owl delivering my invite got lost).

    If they've any sense, the LDs will be using the by-election victories to build local structures, recruit members and seek to increase their council base which, as I recall, wasn't great in North Shropshire but perhaps more substantial elsewhere.

    The Conservatives will be defending 360 seats at the next election, possibly with more limited human resources though of course their financial resources will be considerable.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Congrats to @DavidL

    Still can’t work out if the owls are a joke, an allegory, or a piece of legendary nuptial theatre

    Owls are not uncommon these days, apparently.
    I was talking to a vicar a few years back who has banned them after one too many occasions of them electing to take the rings up to the high beams of the church and sit there, gormlessly, for ages. Pleased that David's daughter's owls were more co-operative.
    They weren't being gormless. In their wisdom, they were making a very pointed comment about the unsuitability of the proposed union.
    In India, owls are symbolic of stupidity.
    They are, I believe, bloody stupid birds.
    I don't mean this pejoratively. All animals have different skills, and criticsing an owl - whose skill is to be able to detect tiny rodents moving - for its lack of intelligence is akin to criticising a shark for its poor rock-climbing ability. It doesn't need to be intelligent. But still - it's fun that the quality we celebrate it for is one it conspicuously doesn't have.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, this morning my much loved elderly (15) cat died, at home, peacefully, painlessly, and cuddled up with the family.

    I know it sounds soft-headed but we have all been very sad today, the children especially, as they grew up with him. He's been getting weaker for the past few weeks so has been very insistent on sitting on our laps the moment we sit down as if wanting closeness and reassurance.

    Our dog is 13 and I dread the day he goes.

    Doesn't sound silly to me at all.
    How else are British people supposed to express genuine sadness and love if not over a cat or dog? With our human loved ones? No thanks.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Congrats to @DavidL

    Still can’t work out if the owls are a joke, an allegory, or a piece of legendary nuptial theatre

    Owls are not uncommon these days, apparently.
    I was talking to a vicar a few years back who has banned them after one too many occasions of them electing to take the rings up to the high beams of the church and sit there, gormlessly, for ages. Pleased that David's daughter's owls were more co-operative.
    They weren't being gormless. In their wisdom, they were making a very pointed comment about the unsuitability of the proposed union.
    In India, owls are symbolic of stupidity.
    They are, I believe, bloody stupid birds.
    I don't mean this pejoratively. All animals have different skills, and criticsing an owl - whose skill is to be able to detect tiny rodents moving - for its lack of intelligence is akin to criticising a shark for its poor rock-climbing ability. It doesn't need to be intelligent. But still - it's fun that the quality we celebrate it for is one it conspicuously doesn't have.
    Judging them by looks perhaps, we are so shallow.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,395
    edited July 2023
    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Man wrongly jailed for rape may have to pay for prison ‘board and lodgings’
    Andrew Malkinson says he will be liable to pay back money to prison service if he wins compensation

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/27/innocent-andrew-malkinson-wrongful-conviction-compensation/ (£££)

    The Telegraph has been reading PB. This is exactly the question I raised yesterday evening.
    Disgraceful - but it is perhaps the least of the injustices visited on him.
    From the reported facts , is wouks seem that not only was he fitted up by the police, they continued to withhold evidence long after his conviction.

    And GMP continue to spin the line that it was an unfortunate mistake.
    There's a reason why the GMP is one of the 5 police forces in special measures.

    But this sort of misconduct is very similar to the police misconduct in the Irish miscarriages of justice in the 1970's. Which shows that, despite all the legal and evidential changes brought in to stop that happening again, if the character of those in the police force hasn't changed, the rest is for naught.

    As for the compensation, the government has adopted the approach used in civil claims ie you are put in the position you would have been in had the tort not happened. But it feels wrong and insulting to charge you B&B for a prison stay you should not have endured and would not have paid for if it had been on offer in a marketplace. It is all part of the way the government has over years chiselled away at the idea of justice and compensation for injustice.

    I am now increasingly of the view that the state is - on many levels - actively harmful to and malicious towards its citizens.
    I wonder if he is supposed to pay income tax on the money that goes towards his B&B and electricity etc.

    Aren't the PO doing something similar?
    Yes they are. It is the most fucked up compensation scheme imaginable, designed by a City law firm with a conflict of interest, which has recently resigned. It has led to people being awarded sums and then losing about 95% of it to tax and bankruptcy. One of the few subpostmasters to get any sort of compensation was so fucked around that he could not afford to heat his house this last winter.

    The judge has urged the government to sort this out properly. Everyone who has looked at this has urged the government to do the decent thing but they are blind, deaf and dumb.

    Perhaps the subpostmasters should claim they are being persecuted for their political views. Then Kemi might find the moral compass she's hidden thus far.
    There's always this. Very difficult to see what the point of this was, unless it was seen as germane, in which case ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/27/post-office-horizon-inquiry-used-racist-term-for-black-people-documents-show
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    edited July 2023
    I was slightly surprised to learn yesterday that our neighbours have just got engaged because, old-fashioned though this makes me, their child - a bonny boy, was born last November and they bought and have lived in the house for yonks. A lovely couple, the same age as my children - they used to play together during summer holidays.

    I kinda yearn for the traditional order: meeting - courtship - move in - marriage - babies - several decades later wondering where the hell the time has gone etc.,.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Congrats to @DavidL

    Still can’t work out if the owls are a joke, an allegory, or a piece of legendary nuptial theatre

    Owls are not uncommon these days, apparently.
    I was talking to a vicar a few years back who has banned them after one too many occasions of them electing to take the rings up to the high beams of the church and sit there, gormlessly, for ages. Pleased that David's daughter's owls were more co-operative.
    They weren't being gormless. In their wisdom, they were making a very pointed comment about the unsuitability of the proposed union.
    In India, owls are symbolic of stupidity.
    They are, I believe, bloody stupid birds.
    I don't mean this pejoratively. All animals have different skills, and criticsing an owl - whose skill is to be able to detect tiny rodents moving - for its lack of intelligence is akin to criticising a shark for its poor rock-climbing ability. It doesn't need to be intelligent. But still - it's fun that the quality we celebrate it for is one it conspicuously doesn't have.
    So stupid that they 'spread their wings only at the coming of the dusk'?

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,230
    This thread has flown off with the rings...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,685
    Cyclefree said:

    I was slightly surprised to learn yesterday that our neighbours have just got engaged because, old-fashioned though this makes me, their child - a bonny boy, was born last November and they bought and have lived in the house for yonks. A lovely couple, the same age as my children - they used to play together during summer holidays.

    I kinda yearn for the traditional order: meeting - courtship - move in - marriage - babies - several decades later wondering where the hell the time has gone etc.,.

    We’ve done it that way, albeit with the baby taking 18 years to arrive…
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888
    Cyclefree said:

    I was slightly surprised to learn yesterday that our neighbours have just got engaged because, old-fashioned though this makes me, their child - a bonny boy, was born last November and they bought and have lived in the house for yonks. A lovely couple, the same age as my children - they used to play together during summer holidays.

    I kinda yearn for the traditional order: meeting - courtship - move in - marriage - babies - several decades later wondering where the hell the time has gone etc.,.

    Still happens among a blessed, fortunate and happy minority - if it is a minority - who tend to draw little attention to its merits except by just being around and living - in our patch - Cumberland lives.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    Cyclefree said:

    I was slightly surprised to learn yesterday that our neighbours have just got engaged because, old-fashioned though this makes me, their child - a bonny boy, was born last November and they bought and have lived in the house for yonks. A lovely couple, the same age as my children - they used to play together during summer holidays.

    I kinda yearn for the traditional order: meeting - courtship - move in - marriage - babies - several decades later wondering where the hell the time has gone etc.,.

    A pedant notes - that was only the traditional order for a relatively short period of time. For our parents' generation, and those before it, marriage was one place to the left. For our children's, as you say, marriage is increasingly one place to the right.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,145
    Cyclefree said:

    I was slightly surprised to learn yesterday that our neighbours have just got engaged because, old-fashioned though this makes me, their child - a bonny boy, was born last November and they bought and have lived in the house for yonks. A lovely couple, the same age as my children - they used to play together during summer holidays.

    I kinda yearn for the traditional order: meeting - courtship - move in - marriage - babies - several decades later wondering where the hell the time has gone etc.,.

    I have been listening to Stephanie Coontz book "Marriage - a History" and it seems that order not very traditional at all, indeed quite a recent and shortlived version of marriage.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,263
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Congrats to @DavidL

    Still can’t work out if the owls are a joke, an allegory, or a piece of legendary nuptial theatre

    Owls are not uncommon these days, apparently.
    I was talking to a vicar a few years back who has banned them after one too many occasions of them electing to take the rings up to the high beams of the church and sit there, gormlessly, for ages. Pleased that David's daughter's owls were more co-operative.
    Well I never!

    I am now girding myself for my own daughters’ wedding-day owl-demands, in about a decade
    Things will have moved on by then, no doubt. It will be lizards, or drones, or time travellers from the 16th century.

    Nothing like that at my wedding, I would stress. All very traditional, albeit in a secular setting. I still watch the video from time to time. You can read my wife's lips as her father is escorting down the stairs into the room where the ceremony took place. "Shitty bollocks", I think were her last words as a single woman.
    As affectionate nicknames go, that's ... different.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I was slightly surprised to learn yesterday that our neighbours have just got engaged because, old-fashioned though this makes me, their child - a bonny boy, was born last November and they bought and have lived in the house for yonks. A lovely couple, the same age as my children - they used to play together during summer holidays.

    I kinda yearn for the traditional order: meeting - courtship - move in - marriage - babies - several decades later wondering where the hell the time has gone etc.,.

    A pedant notes - that was only the traditional order for a relatively short period of time. For our parents' generation, and those before it, marriage was one place to the left. For our children's, as you say, marriage is increasingly one place to the right.
    We might be getting a cat soon - our first pet. we've lived together nearly twenty years, been married 14, have a nine year old son, but are still unsure whether we're mature enough for the responsibility of being owned by a cat.
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