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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The LAB share remains rock solid in PB’s YouGov Weekly Aver

SystemSystem Posts: 12,214
edited February 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The LAB share remains rock solid in PB’s YouGov Weekly Average

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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,016
    Disappointing for the tories. When are these Lib Dems going to start going home? When are the floating voters going to start realising that their economic futures would once again be at risk with a party which thinks government spending is the answer to everything?

  • Alex Salmond's economic plan for independence was facing a double challenge on Sunday as fresh evidence suggested both the public and business leaders remain unconvinced.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/10627344/Scottish-independence-Double-blow-for-Alex-Salmonds-economic-plans.html
  • DavidL said:

    Disappointing for the tories. When are these Lib Dems going to start going home? When are the floating voters going to start realising that their economic futures would once again be at risk with a party which thinks government spending is the answer to everything?

    In the LAB-CON marginals my guess is that most of the 2010 LD switchers have made up their minds and won't be reverting. In the LD-CON marginals the main yellow GE strategy will be to keep the LAB tactical voters and encourage more.

  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    "In the LAB-CON marginals my guess is that most of the 2010 LD switchers have made up their minds and won't be reverting." I think this will dawn on many on here about six or seven hours after the polls close next year.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    DavidL said:

    When are the floating voters going to start realising that their economic futures would once again be at risk

    I am extremely disappointed with the people. If they continue like this then we may have to sack them!
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited February 2014
    FPT: YouGov finds most voters pretty much united on Nick Clegg

    Do you think Nick Clegg is doing well or badly as leader of the Liberal Democrats?

    TOTAL WELL - 19%

    TOTAL BADLY - 71%

    Don't know - 10%

    Triumph for Gove, sorry, Clegg! :D
  • Neil said:

    DavidL said:

    When are the floating voters going to start realising that their economic futures would once again be at risk


    I am extremely disappointed with the people. If they continue like this then we may have to sack them!
    Like the Swiss people who have so shocked your sensibilities today.
  • Java script not working on my Android. Any fixes? shame not to see charts now! ! Thanks
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Top news story
    Somerset Local News ‏@SomersetNewsUK 8h

    Eric Pickles blames flooding on global warming before claiming 'foreign aid ... - Daily Mail: Daily ... http://bit.ly/1ghUVJT #Somerset
  • DavidL said:

    When are these Lib Dems going to start going home?

    A lot of them were "Labour" in the first place, and are home!

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,016
    edited February 2014
    Really interesting piece by David Smith in the ST today largely reproduced here: http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/

    What was fascinating is that the squeezed middle is largely a myth. He says:

    "One striking result from the official annual survey of hours and earnings is that people who have stayed in work continuously (defined as more than a year in each survey) have done pretty well.

    So, taking the 12 months to April in each case their pay rose by 6.8% in 2008, 4% in 2009, 4% again in 2010, 3.7% in 2011, 3.6% in 2012 and 3.3% in 2013. Their pay, and this is a large group, has mainly stayed ahead of inflation."

    The apparent drop in real wages has largely been as a result of more less skilled people joining the workforce bringing down the average wage and the average productivity of those in work. Those who have stayed in work are generally better off, even if not excitingly so.

    This makes the failure of the tories to make inroads in the Labour support even more disappointing. Austerity, for most, has been nothing of the sort which is why consumption has largely kept up despite an increase in the saving rate and a reduction in debt ratios for the consumer.

    Tories at this point must be beginning to wonder what it is going to take to persuade people to re-elect them. It is not proving easy.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    DavidL said:

    When are the floating voters going to start realising that their economic futures would once again be at risk


    I am extremely disappointed with the people. If they continue like this then we may have to sack them!
    Like the Swiss people who have so shocked your sensibilities today.
    I was far from shocked by the result of the Swiss referendum, Moniker.
  • "In the LAB-CON marginals my guess is that most of the 2010 LD switchers have made up their minds and won't be reverting." I think this will dawn on many on here about six or seven hours after the polls close next year.

    What will Dan Hodges be blogging as Ed is being driven up the Mall to the Palace?

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    The scores are only rock solid if you think the pollsters have got Ukip right (also Lab voters in Con-LD land will vote LD in the end even if they won't admit to it at the moment).
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Alex Salmond's economic plan for independence was facing a double challenge on Sunday as fresh evidence suggested both the public and business leaders remain unconvinced.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/10627344/Scottish-independence-Double-blow-for-Alex-Salmonds-economic-plans.html

    FPT

    It is actually hard to see what the arguments *are*, very hard to get a flavour from Dave's rather sickly "every fibre of my being" salvoes delivered from the safety of London, and Eck's currency flounderings.

    I have more time for Eck than Dave - implementing a minimum drink price policy with real teeth in Scotland of all places takes real balls - but he needs a position fast on currency. His boldest and best move would be to announce a Scotch Franc backed by the oil (which the SNP knew nothing about in 1974 because the Whitehall fops covered it up). Given the present policy vacuum on both sides the chances of wild last-minute swings based on Bannockburnery are really rather high.

    The tory position on Bannockburnery is also rather pathetic - appealing to history when 1707 is really rather recent compared to, frinstance, Bannockburn. Here's our own dear J R-M stating the unionist case on the grounds that "England did not become a nation until it was united by King Alfred's grandson, Athelstan." WTAF?

    Read more: http://www.somersetguardian.co.uk/Unity-lessened-loss-Scottish-brothers/story-20569970-detail/story.html#ixzz2srZTs4pa
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Mick_Pork said:

    Top news story
    Somerset Local News ‏@SomersetNewsUK 8h

    Eric Pickles blames flooding on global warming before claiming 'foreign aid ... - Daily Mail: Daily ... http://bit.ly/1ghUVJT #Somerset

    Very strange when the EU's biodiversity targets are fully documented and the EA's decision to encourage flooding is fully documented.

    Could the Cameroons be fully paid-up 100% Europhiles after all - what a shock.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,016

    "In the LAB-CON marginals my guess is that most of the 2010 LD switchers have made up their minds and won't be reverting." I think this will dawn on many on here about six or seven hours after the polls close next year.

    What will Dan Hodges be blogging as Ed is being driven up the Mall to the Palace?

    Presumably that this is a disastrous day for Ed because he is now going to be found out. It might even be true for once!

  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Neil said:

    DavidL said:

    When are the floating voters going to start realising that their economic futures would once again be at risk

    I am extremely disappointed with the people. If they continue like this then we may have to sack them!
    As I have stated on here many times before, this is going to end up really messy on here on the night of the general election. Do the voters realise what fury they will face on this messageboard if they do not vote as the majority of posters on here want them to. The fury will be of biblical proportions. They need to be informed.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    VI for Holyrood in today’s Panelbase poll (changes to 2011 in brackets)

    Constituencies – SNP 44% (-1) : Lab 31% (+1) : Con 13% (-1) : LD 6% (-4) : Oth 6% (+2)

    Regional List – SNP 44% (nc) : Lab 28% (+2) : Con 13% (+1) : Green 7% (+4) : LD 4% (-1) : Oth 3% (-5)

    :)
  • Neil said:

    Neil said:

    DavidL said:

    When are the floating voters going to start realising that their economic futures would once again be at risk


    I am extremely disappointed with the people. If they continue like this then we may have to sack them!
    Like the Swiss people who have so shocked your sensibilities today.
    I was far from shocked by the result of the Swiss referendum, Moniker.
    I know that in your home country you can have referendums until the right progressive result is reached. Unfortunately for your delicate nature you'll find that Swiss concepts of democracy are far more robust.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2014

    "In the LAB-CON marginals my guess is that most of the 2010 LD switchers have made up their minds and won't be reverting." I think this will dawn on many on here about six or seven hours after the polls close next year.

    What will Dan Hodges be blogging as Ed is being driven up the Mall to the Palace?

    He will, of course, be blogging that it is a disaster for Labour (not to mention the country), and he will of course be right.

    I'm still gobsmacked that so few Labour supporters see this - only a few remnant and bitter Blairites, and maybe Hopi Sen. All the rest must think that politics and economics will come to an end on May 7th 2015, and that the means by which Ed Miliband gets into No 10 (if indeed he does), and the promises he has appeared to make, and the anti-business, anti-prosperity policy commitments, and most of all the fact that he actually appears to believe all his 'predators vs producers' nonsense, have no consequences.
  • Java script not working on my Android. Any fixes? shame not to see charts now! ! Thanks

    Use the Dolphin or Opera browsers. They work well.

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Carlotta, message for you.

    Alex Salmond's economic plan for independence was facing a double challenge on Sunday as fresh evidence suggested both the public and business leaders remain unconvinced.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/10627344/Scottish-independence-Double-blow-for-Alex-Salmonds-economic-plans.html

  • "In the LAB-CON marginals my guess is that most of the 2010 LD switchers have made up their minds and won't be reverting." I think this will dawn on many on here about six or seven hours after the polls close next year.

    What will Dan Hodges be blogging as Ed is being driven up the Mall to the Palace?

    He's emigrating?
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    DavidL said:

    Disappointing for the tories. When are these Lib Dems going to start going home? When are the floating voters going to start realising that their economic futures would once again be at risk with a party which thinks government spending is the answer to everything?

    When they become stupid enough to believe that the supply of labour doesn't effect the demand. Until that point LibLabCon are the same party.
  • Mick_Pork said:

    Top news story
    Somerset Local News ‏@SomersetNewsUK 8h

    aka "WingsoverScotland" and the adjacent GloucesteshireNews "NewsNetScotland"....

  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    "In the LAB-CON marginals my guess is that most of the 2010 LD switchers have made up their minds and won't be reverting." I think this will dawn on many on here about six or seven hours after the polls close next year.

    What will Dan Hodges be blogging as Ed is being driven up the Mall to the Palace?

    It will be one of the highlights of the election, the headline "Ed Milibands Labour winning the election is a disaster for Ed Miliband". Did he not say he would run through Westminster naked if he won, or was that another bet of his?

    By the way, I admire your determination to get across the point of the 2010 Lib Dem to Labour crossovers staying put, I gave up months ago.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited February 2014
    James McGraw ‏@jamesmcgraw 5h

    Eric Pickles accuses Farage of cheap populism. http://goo.gl/7Z5ZBP By the way, can anyone lend me a knife? All I’ve got is 10,000 spoons.
    Not that cheap.
    suerose ‏@mykkym1 5h

    Eric Pickles' limousine bill almost £500,000 | The Sun |News|Politics http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5432649/eric-pickles-limousine-bill-almost-half-a-million.html
  • Politician accuses politicians of "playing politics"

    Ministers are "playing politics" with the flood crisis and "getting in the way of decent people doing a valiant job", according to an unprecedented outburst from the embattled boss of the Environment Agency, who blamed the government for limiting the agency's response.

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/feb/09/floods-environment-agency-chris-smith-hits-back

    Whatever the merits of Lord Smith's case, I suspect the photo editor is not a fan....
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Theresa May ‏@TheresaMay_MP 9h

    Stop griping about Eric Pickles' limo bill... Look how he got to #somersetfloods pic.twitter.com/kUHtD8pyKY

    Shirley ‏@shirleykay11

    Eric Pickles tea and biscuits bill up to £76,000 but he's lectured others to keep costs down Mirror Online - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/eric-pickles-tea-biscuits-bill-3062584 … #bbcnews


  • Wonder how the teaching unions will react to tomorrow's Grauniad front page:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/92703/the_guardian_sunday_9th_february_2014.html
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,016
    MrJones said:

    DavidL said:

    Disappointing for the tories. When are these Lib Dems going to start going home? When are the floating voters going to start realising that their economic futures would once again be at risk with a party which thinks government spending is the answer to everything?

    When they become stupid enough to believe that the supply of labour doesn't effect the demand. Until that point LibLabCon are the same party.
    The UK has been stunningly successful in creating low value, low skilled jobs, almost certainly the most successful in the EU. This has kept unemployment relatively low and has employement at record levels. It has also hidden the worst consequences of our dysfunctional education system.

    How have we done this? By subsidising such employment so that only a small fraction of the cost of providing that labour is paid by the employer. So we have WTC, CTC, we subsidise housing through HB and we subsidise these poorly paid workers to have more children through a range of other benefits including CB and free school meals.

    Is this a good thing? Probably, yes. Mass unemployment is a bad thing and labour gives people self respect. OTOH, as Robert would point out, the cost of such a welfare state is very high taxes, a very large bureaucracy and a major loss of international competitiveness. The question is whether the point will come that we simply cannot afford this level of indulgence.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,566
    DavidL said:



    Tories at this point must be beginning to wonder what it is going to take to persuade people to re-elect them. It is not proving easy.

    They need to start getting people to like them again. Most of that 37-39% aren't motivated by economic analysis - they suspect that differences will be less dramatic than one might expect or wish. But a large proportion just dislike the Conservative Party and want to see it out of government - for many, it's become as simple as that.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    Wonder how the teaching unions will react to tomorrow's Grauniad front page:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/92703/the_guardian_sunday_9th_february_2014.html

    I know, 81 crosses and only two goals....shocking.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Former immigration minister Mark Harper used expenses to pay illegal cleaner

    Mark Harper, the former immigration minister, claimed more than £2,000 in parliamentary expenses to pay an illegal immigrant to clean his home.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10627741/Former-immigration-minister-Mark-Harper-used-expenses-to-pay-illegal-cleaner.html


    Says it all.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Mick_Pork said:

    Former immigration minister Mark Harper used expenses to pay illegal cleaner

    Mark Harper, the former immigration minister, claimed more than £2,000 in parliamentary expenses to pay an illegal immigrant to clean his home.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10627741/Former-immigration-minister-Mark-Harper-used-expenses-to-pay-illegal-cleaner.html


    Says it all.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CGF_Z3yZAo
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Wonder how the teaching unions will react to tomorrow's Grauniad front page:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/92703/the_guardian_sunday_9th_february_2014.html

    Express even more garbage than usual. 2 week old photo of baby George plus some rubbish on how they have cracked the secret of neutralising the rhinovirus.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808
    Blimey, if Pickles thinks the sight of a cabinet minister sitting there like a great fat slug blaming 'everyone but us, guvnor' for what's happening in Somerset is a vote winner, then surely he's mistaken. Last time I looked Government was ever more focused on setting Agency Priorities and allocating budgets accordingly. Shifting the blame like this does not wash. Despicable but despicable has always been fatty's strength.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,016

    DavidL said:



    Tories at this point must be beginning to wonder what it is going to take to persuade people to re-elect them. It is not proving easy.

    They need to start getting people to like them again. Most of that 37-39% aren't motivated by economic analysis - they suspect that differences will be less dramatic than one might expect or wish. But a large proportion just dislike the Conservative Party and want to see it out of government - for many, it's become as simple as that.
    That is undoubtedly true Nick. Economic competence or being "right" (whatever that means with modern complexity) will never be enough if the public do not feel the tories are people like them or at least care about people like them.

    Cameron can do this better than most which is why his polling runs ahead of the party but the stereotypes are strong and have affected even him. They need more "ordinary" people, especially women, representing the party. A number of competent women were elected in 2010 (one in a constituency near to your heart) but they have not been given a nearly high enough profile.

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    DavidL said:

    MrJones said:

    DavidL said:

    Disappointing for the tories. When are these Lib Dems going to start going home? When are the floating voters going to start realising that their economic futures would once again be at risk with a party which thinks government spending is the answer to everything?

    When they become stupid enough to believe that the supply of labour doesn't effect the demand. Until that point LibLabCon are the same party.
    The UK has been stunningly successful in creating low value, low skilled jobs, almost certainly the most successful in the EU. This has kept unemployment relatively low and has employement at record levels. It has also hidden the worst consequences of our dysfunctional education system.

    How have we done this? By subsidising such employment so that only a small fraction of the cost of providing that labour is paid by the employer. So we have WTC, CTC, we subsidise housing through HB and we subsidise these poorly paid workers to have more children through a range of other benefits including CB and free school meals.

    Is this a good thing? Probably, yes. Mass unemployment is a bad thing and labour gives people self respect. OTOH, as Robert would point out, the cost of such a welfare state is very high taxes, a very large bureaucracy and a major loss of international competitiveness. The question is whether the point will come that we simply cannot afford this level of indulgence.

    So in other words import a massive hidden labour surplus disguised by the welfare system until the time comes to pull the plug?

    AKA Pure economic warfare colluded in by the entire political class at the behest of cheap labour lobbyists with the only real difference being the Tory part of the LibLabCon are the worst at hiding it.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    DavidL said:



    Tories at this point must be beginning to wonder what it is going to take to persuade people to re-elect them. It is not proving easy.

    They need to start getting people to like them again. Most of that 37-39% aren't motivated by economic analysis - they suspect that differences will be less dramatic than one might expect or wish. But a large proportion just dislike the Conservative Party and want to see it out of government - for many, it's become as simple as that.
    There's not much difference between Labour and the Conservatives on like/dislike. None of our political parties are popular.

  • Richard Nabavi is right that Labour is nowhere near ready for power in 2015. Nick Palmer is right that the thought of a Tory government is truly horrendous. It's a tricky one.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    Blimey, if Pickles thinks the sight of a cabinet minister sitting there like a great fat slug blaming 'everyone but us, guvnor' for what's happening in Somerset is a vote winner, then surely he's mistaken. Last time I looked Government was ever more focused on setting Agency Priorities and allocating budgets accordingly. Shifting the blame like this does not wash. Despicable but despicable has always been fatty's strength.

    He could blame the EU's biodiversity targets and the EA's decision to encourage flooding to meet those EU targets as that is the main reason but the Cameroons are 100% Europhile and so will sit there and take show trial beatings from a media organisation that won't tell the public about the EU's biodiversity targets or that the EA decided to encourage flooding to meet those EU targets.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited February 2014
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:



    Tories at this point must be beginning to wonder what it is going to take to persuade people to re-elect them. It is not proving easy.

    They need to start getting people to like them again. Most of that 37-39% aren't motivated by economic analysis - they suspect that differences will be less dramatic than one might expect or wish. But a large proportion just dislike the Conservative Party and want to see it out of government - for many, it's become as simple as that.
    That is undoubtedly true Nick. Economic competence or being "right" (whatever that means with modern complexity) will never be enough if the public do not feel the tories are people like them or at least care about people like them.

    Cameron can do this better than most which is why his polling runs ahead of the party but the stereotypes are strong and have affected even him. They need more "ordinary" people, especially women, representing the party. A number of competent women were elected in 2010 (one in a constituency near to your heart) but they have not been given a nearly high enough profile.

    Mr L I am all agog with the common sense in that post. I think I now need a lie down.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    As for Dan Hodges. He promised to run naked through the mall if UKIP got 6% or above at the next general election.

    We can't let him forget that.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    IOS said:

    As for Dan Hodges. He promised to run naked through the mall if UKIP got 6% or above at the next general election.

    We can't let him forget that.

    Cant we? For the sake of the children at least.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Richard Nabavi is right that Labour is nowhere near ready for power in 2015. Nick Palmer is right that the thought of a Tory government is truly horrendous.

    While YouGov is right that calamity Clegg is toxic.

    Very tricky indeed.

  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    The Lab figure for w/e Dec 20th was 39.2, not 39.0.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    IOS said:

    As for Dan Hodges. He promised to run naked through the mall if UKIP got 6% or above at the next general election.

    We can't let him forget that.

    I couldn't remember what is was....GO UKIP!
  • Charles said:

    Wonder how the teaching unions will react to tomorrow's Grauniad front page:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/92703/the_guardian_sunday_9th_february_2014.html

    Express even more garbage than usual. 2 week old photo of baby George plus some rubbish on how they have cracked the secret of neutralising the rhinovirus.
    And the FT have picked up on probably the most important story of the day: "EU Swiss warning sends signal to the UK"

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2014
    These weekly average are very useful. Really cuts through the Dan Hodges-esque faux-analysis of Labour's crumbling poll lead.

    That said, I do have some apprehension about whether Labour will actually pull it off, but NOT for the reasons the clueless Westminster village think, that the people who are currently saying they'll vote Labour will change their mind at the last minute and vote Tory instead: these people in almost all cases simply hate the Tories and would never vote for them, even if they maybe think David Cameron comes across as a decent guy on a personal level and would be a more interesting person to have a drink with than Ed Miliband. Nor is there any real danger of the Lib Dems pulling back some of their 2010 lefty voters that have since defected, no matter how much desperate "differentiation" they try.

    No, the real danger for Labour is those people who are currently saying they'll vote for them simply don't show up on polling day. It really can't be overestimated how deep the disillusionment is towards politics in general (including Labour) among the working-classes, Labour's supposed core vote. While Westminster groupthink dictates Labour have "lurched to left", in my experience it's actually Labour's middle-class supporters, especially ones who work in the public sector, who are most satisfied with the party and most enthusiastic about voting for them next year. But it's a very different story with their working-class supporters.

    I'm willing to nail my colours to the mast and say that if turnout in 2015 is 60% or above, Labour will win a majority no matter what. But if turnout dips below that, then I expect that fall to come disproportionately from poorer and younger people, and in that case Labour would be in real trouble.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Hugh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:



    Tories at this point must be beginning to wonder what it is going to take to persuade people to re-elect them. It is not proving easy.

    They need to start getting people to like them again. Most of that 37-39% aren't motivated by economic analysis - they suspect that differences will be less dramatic than one might expect or wish. But a large proportion just dislike the Conservative Party and want to see it out of government - for many, it's become as simple as that.
    That is undoubtedly true Nick. Economic competence or being "right" (whatever that means with modern complexity) will never be enough if the public do not feel the tories are people like them or at least care about people like them.

    Cameron can do this better than most which is why his polling runs ahead of the party but the stereotypes are strong and have affected even him. They need more "ordinary" people, especially women, representing the party. A number of competent women were elected in 2010 (one in a constituency near to your heart) but they have not been given a nearly high enough profile.

    Mr L I am all agog with the common sense in that post. I think I now need a lie down.
    No need to be agog at common sense from DavidL. He's been the voice of Tory sanity as long as I've been reading PB.
    It just came out of the blue. I think we need a warning if he is going to post something like that among all the other right wing pony on here.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Hugh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:



    Tories at this point must be beginning to wonder what it is going to take to persuade people to re-elect them. It is not proving easy.

    They need to start getting people to like them again. Most of that 37-39% aren't motivated by economic analysis - they suspect that differences will be less dramatic than one might expect or wish. But a large proportion just dislike the Conservative Party and want to see it out of government - for many, it's become as simple as that.
    That is undoubtedly true Nick. Economic competence or being "right" (whatever that means with modern complexity) will never be enough if the public do not feel the tories are people like them or at least care about people like them.

    Cameron can do this better than most which is why his polling runs ahead of the party but the stereotypes are strong and have affected even him. They need more "ordinary" people, especially women, representing the party. A number of competent women were elected in 2010 (one in a constituency near to your heart) but they have not been given a nearly high enough profile.

    Mr L I am all agog with the common sense in that post. I think I now need a lie down.
    No need to be agog at common sense from DavidL. He's been the voice of Tory sanity as long as I've been reading PB.
    Oh stop it!
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Neil,

    He won't end up doing it but it would be good to see one of his off base predictions finally hung around his neck.
  • DavidL said:



    Tories at this point must be beginning to wonder what it is going to take to persuade people to re-elect them. It is not proving easy.

    They need to start getting people to like them again. Most of that 37-39% aren't motivated by economic analysis - they suspect that differences will be less dramatic than one might expect or wish. But a large proportion just dislike the Conservative Party and want to see it out of government - for many, it's become as simple as that.
    There's not much difference between Labour and the Conservatives on like/dislike. None of our political parties are popular.

    Indeed. Despite the mightily loathed Gove who will send swarms of tactical voters to key marginals in 2015, Labour's lead on Education is +25 +15 +10 +5
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808
    MrJones said:

    Blimey, if Pickles thinks the sight of a cabinet minister sitting there like a great fat slug blaming 'everyone but us, guvnor' for what's happening in Somerset is a vote winner, then surely he's mistaken. Last time I looked Government was ever more focused on setting Agency Priorities and allocating budgets accordingly. Shifting the blame like this does not wash. Despicable but despicable has always been fatty's strength.

    He could blame the EU's biodiversity targets and the EA's decision to encourage flooding to meet those EU targets as that is the main reason but the Cameroons are 100% Europhile and so will sit there and take show trial beatings from a media organisation that won't tell the public about the EU's biodiversity targets or that the EA decided to encourage flooding to meet those EU targets.
    I suppose being omniscient, you'll be able to tell me how increased flooding contributes to biodiversity targets? Prolonged flooding is more likely to result in adverse condition. I think you'll find that budget cuts leading to increasingly thinly spread resources are as much to blame.
  • PB Tories unanswered questions. Why aren't people believing our claims they are better off? Why do they laugh when we blame the floods on Labour decisions made 15 years ago? Why aren't people supporting us on benefits or immigration? Why is Give so unpopular as he saves education? The same with Hunt at Health?

    They don't get it. For swathes of this country "Tory" is a swear word. Even when Labour needed to be out of office they blamed them on being too much like the Tories so voted LibDem - who lied to their own members to put the Tories into power.

    The Tories didn't win the election despite the other choice being a man written off by everyone especially his own party. Yet they find themselves in power thanks to the LibDems lying to the electorate, in direct contradiction of what so many thought they were voting for. In short Gove, Hunt, Osborne, Eric the Silurian - a minority supported them, the majority rejected them. And thats before their own side wrote them off as too soft and went down the pub with Farage. Why would the general population support a government they don't want? Because you say the alternative would be worse? But they don't trust you as far as they can thrown you, why would your word sway them?
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    IOS said:

    Neil,

    He won't end up doing it but it would be good to see one of his off base predictions finally hung around his neck.

    Did anyone ever find his missing marginal poll showing the Tories neck and neck, or was it Tories in the lead? Only Dan will know I think?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:



    Tories at this point must be beginning to wonder what it is going to take to persuade people to re-elect them. It is not proving easy.

    They need to start getting people to like them again. Most of that 37-39% aren't motivated by economic analysis - they suspect that differences will be less dramatic than one might expect or wish. But a large proportion just dislike the Conservative Party and want to see it out of government - for many, it's become as simple as that.
    That is undoubtedly true Nick. Economic competence or being "right" (whatever that means with modern complexity) will never be enough if the public do not feel the tories are people like them or at least care about people like them.

    Cameron can do this better than most which is why his polling runs ahead of the party but the stereotypes are strong and have affected even him. They need more "ordinary" people, especially women, representing the party. A number of competent women were elected in 2010 (one in a constituency near to your heart) but they have not been given a nearly high enough profile.

    Mr L I am all agog with the common sense in that post. I think I now need a lie down.
    Pickles was supposedly one of those who could reach ordinary voters.
    Not much sign of that today.
    Telegraph News ‏@TelegraphNews 10h

    Sustainable aid spent abroad will help alleviate the effects of extreme weather in the UK, Eric Pickles suggests http://fw.to/WDyboYT
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Bloody hell, there is lefties everywhere. Cue, Labour HQ open late quip from a PB Hodges.
  • Charles said:

    Wonder how the teaching unions will react to tomorrow's Grauniad front page:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/92703/the_guardian_sunday_9th_february_2014.html

    Express even more garbage than usual. 2 week old photo of baby George plus some rubbish on how they have cracked the secret of neutralising the rhinovirus.
    And the FT have picked up on probably the most important story of the day: "EU Swiss warning sends signal to the UK"

    That looks like the big story to me too. The Swiss electorate has clearly decided they want a new relationship with the EU, even if that means less access to the single market. It's noteworthy that it was the Italian-speaking part that was most in favour of quotas - far fewer immigrants and also far fewer large-scale exporting businesses. Pharma and finance will not be happy, that's for sure.

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    a minority supported them, the majority rejected them.

    You could say that about most of our past governments. Labour governments included.

  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited February 2014
    Mick_Pork said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:



    Tories at this point must be beginning to wonder what it is going to take to persuade people to re-elect them. It is not proving easy.

    They need to start getting people to like them again. Most of that 37-39% aren't motivated by economic analysis - they suspect that differences will be less dramatic than one might expect or wish. But a large proportion just dislike the Conservative Party and want to see it out of government - for many, it's become as simple as that.
    That is undoubtedly true Nick. Economic competence or being "right" (whatever that means with modern complexity) will never be enough if the public do not feel the tories are people like them or at least care about people like them.

    Cameron can do this better than most which is why his polling runs ahead of the party but the stereotypes are strong and have affected even him. They need more "ordinary" people, especially women, representing the party. A number of competent women were elected in 2010 (one in a constituency near to your heart) but they have not been given a nearly high enough profile.

    Mr L I am all agog with the common sense in that post. I think I now need a lie down.
    Pickles was supposedly one of those who could reach ordinary voters.
    Not much sign of that today.
    Telegraph News ‏@TelegraphNews 10h

    Sustainable aid spent abroad will help alleviate the effects of extreme weather in the UK, Eric Pickles suggests http://fw.to/WDyboYT
    He has never been the same since he lost the Doctor Who contract.

    http://www.virginmedia.com/images/12Nov_doctor-who-sontaran-590x350.jpg
  • Next Severn Trent reservoir report due tomorrow. Last Monday they were at 97.2% capacity. Will we hit 100% this time?
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    MrJones said:

    Blimey, if Pickles thinks the sight of a cabinet minister sitting there like a great fat slug blaming 'everyone but us, guvnor' for what's happening in Somerset is a vote winner, then surely he's mistaken. Last time I looked Government was ever more focused on setting Agency Priorities and allocating budgets accordingly. Shifting the blame like this does not wash. Despicable but despicable has always been fatty's strength.

    He could blame the EU's biodiversity targets and the EA's decision to encourage flooding to meet those EU targets as that is the main reason but the Cameroons are 100% Europhile and so will sit there and take show trial beatings from a media organisation that won't tell the public about the EU's biodiversity targets or that the EA decided to encourage flooding to meet those EU targets.
    I suppose being omniscient, you'll be able to tell me how increased flooding contributes to biodiversity targets? Prolonged flooding is more likely to result in adverse condition. I think you'll find that budget cuts leading to increasingly thinly spread resources are as much to blame.
    No need to be omniscient just sit and think about it a bit more.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited February 2014
    Hugh said:

    Bloody hell, there is lefties everywhere. Cue, Labour HQ open late quip from a PB Hodges.

    Probably all public sector immigrant scrounging BBC teachers who don't have work tomorrow.
    Bummer...I am out of the clique.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    PB Tories unanswered questions. Why aren't people believing our claims they are better off? Why do they laugh when we blame the floods on Labour decisions made 15 years ago? Why aren't people supporting us on benefits or immigration? Why is Give so unpopular as he saves education? The same with Hunt at Health?

    They don't get it. For swathes of this country "Tory" is a swear word. Even when Labour needed to be out of office they blamed them on being too much like the Tories so voted LibDem - who lied to their own members to put the Tories into power.

    The Tories didn't win the election despite the other choice being a man written off by everyone especially his own party. Yet they find themselves in power thanks to the LibDems lying to the electorate, in direct contradiction of what so many thought they were voting for. In short Gove, Hunt, Osborne, Eric the Silurian - a minority supported them, the majority rejected them. And thats before their own side wrote them off as too soft and went down the pub with Farage. Why would the general population support a government they don't want? Because you say the alternative would be worse? But they don't trust you as far as they can thrown you, why would your word sway them?

    "Why do they laugh when we blame the floods on Labour decisions made 15 years ago?"

    1) The Cameroons are mostly taking the blame like good little Europhiles.
    2) IIRC the EA's decision to encourage flooding was from 2008 so 5 years ago.
  • Rochdale,
    "a minority supported them, the majority rejected them"

    I didn't hear you moaning too much when Tony got back in 2005 on 35%.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2014

    That looks like the big story to me too. The Swiss electorate has clearly decided they want a new relationship with the EU, even if that means less access to the single market. It's noteworthy that it was the Italian-speaking part that was most in favour of quotas - far fewer immigrants and also far fewer large-scale exporting businesses. Pharma and finance will not be happy, that's for sure.

    I wonder if they have decided that. Maybe all that this illustrates is that, if you take decisions one at a time, you get inconsistency and direct contradiction between the different decisions.
  • Charles said:

    Wonder how the teaching unions will react to tomorrow's Grauniad front page:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/92703/the_guardian_sunday_9th_february_2014.html

    Express even more garbage than usual. 2 week old photo of baby George plus some rubbish on how they have cracked the secret of neutralising the rhinovirus.
    And the FT have picked up on probably the most important story of the day: "EU Swiss warning sends signal to the UK"

    That looks like the big story to me too. The Swiss electorate has clearly decided they want a new relationship with the EU, even if that means less access to the single market. It's noteworthy that it was the Italian-speaking part that was most in favour of quotas - far fewer immigrants and also far fewer large-scale exporting businesses. Pharma and finance will not be happy, that's for sure.

    And the EU will negotiate with the Swiss with more than one eye on the UK.

    Just as they will negotiate with the Sçots with more than one eye on a Catalonia et al.

    Bit unfair on the Swiss and the Scots, but c'est la víe!
  • One of my favourite films is on, The Bank Job
  • That looks like the big story to me too. The Swiss electorate has clearly decided they want a new relationship with the EU, even if that means less access to the single market. It's noteworthy that it was the Italian-speaking part that was most in favour of quotas - far fewer immigrants and also far fewer large-scale exporting businesses. Pharma and finance will not be happy, that's for sure.

    I wonder if they have decided that. Maybe all that this illustrates is that, if you take decisions one at a time, you get inconsistency and direct contradiction between the different decisions.

    I did not follow the campaign, but I can't believe the consequences of a Yes weren't made abundantly clear. I wonder if it is one of the reasons the result was so tight

  • That looks like the big story to me too. The Swiss electorate has clearly decided they want a new relationship with the EU, even if that means less access to the single market. It's noteworthy that it was the Italian-speaking part that was most in favour of quotas - far fewer immigrants and also far fewer large-scale exporting businesses. Pharma and finance will not be happy, that's for sure.

    I wonder if they have decided that. Maybe all that this illustrates is that, if you take decisions one at a time, you get inconsistency and direct contradiction between the different decisions.
    No, I expect they wanted their current relationship with the EU AND immigration control....Wonder who is going to break it to them......
  • I see Ed Davey has lost his marbles, or maybe is just playing politics:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26112330

    In fact the UK has the lowest gas prices, apart from Luxembourg, in Western Europe:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25200808
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    Hugh said:

    Hugh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:



    Tories at this point must be beginning to wonder what it is going to take to persuade people to re-elect them. It is not proving easy.

    They need to start getting people to like them again. Most of that 37-39% aren't motivated by economic analysis - they suspect that differences will be less dramatic than one might expect or wish. But a large proportion just dislike the Conservative Party and want to see it out of government - for many, it's become as simple as that.
    That is undoubtedly true Nick. Economic competence or being "right" (whatever that means with modern complexity) will never be enough if the public do not feel the tories are people like them or at least care about people like them.

    Cameron can do this better than most which is why his polling runs ahead of the party but the stereotypes are strong and have affected even him. They need more "ordinary" people, especially women, representing the party. A number of competent women were elected in 2010 (one in a constituency near to your heart) but they have not been given a nearly high enough profile.

    Mr L I am all agog with the common sense in that post. I think I now need a lie down.
    No need to be agog at common sense from DavidL. He's been the voice of Tory sanity as long as I've been reading PB.
    It just came out of the blue. I think we need a warning if he is going to post something like that among all the other right wing pony on here.
    Trick is not to get sucked down into the sewer by the relentless torrent of rightwing effluent pouring onto PB.

    There are sane Tories. It's a shame for democracy that they're not prominent in their crumbling once-great Party, but there we go.
    Can't say I'm impressed by Labour's hatred of "baby eating" Tories. Non-thinking/unthinking socialists who would vote for a donkey with a red rosette.

  • Charles said:

    Wonder how the teaching unions will react to tomorrow's Grauniad front page:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/92703/the_guardian_sunday_9th_february_2014.html

    Express even more garbage than usual. 2 week old photo of baby George plus some rubbish on how they have cracked the secret of neutralising the rhinovirus.
    And the FT have picked up on probably the most important story of the day: "EU Swiss warning sends signal to the UK"

    That looks like the big story to me too. The Swiss electorate has clearly decided they want a new relationship with the EU, even if that means less access to the single market. It's noteworthy that it was the Italian-speaking part that was most in favour of quotas - far fewer immigrants and also far fewer large-scale exporting businesses. Pharma and finance will not be happy, that's for sure.

    And the EU will negotiate with the Swiss with more than one eye on the UK.

    Just as they will negotiate with the Sçots with more than one eye on a Catalonia et al.

    Bit unfair on the Swiss and the Scots, but c'est la víe!

    The EU can certainly now make Switzerland a much less attractive place to, say, run a hedge fund or similar. It is definitely a chance to send signals.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Ross Hawkins ‏@rosschawkins 23 Jan 2013

    Cameron highlighting problems with Swiss or Norwegian model of EU engagement (former model partic favoured by some Eurosceptics)
    Farage is absolutely delighted with the Swiss referendum so it's somewhat unlikey to be very good news for Cammie considering what happened during his immigration vote shambles when his own MPs humiliated him so completely.

    If tory rebels start seriously pondering over yet another referendum but this one on immigration then it won't end well for him. Nor will Cast Iron Cammie's compete lack of details on renegotiation stand up for very long come the EU elections.
  • Just what Education needs - another Quango!

    Parents are to be given a new power to call in a specialist team to boost the performance of failing schools or teachers, under a set of wide-ranging public service reform plans to be laid out on Monday by the Labour leader, Ed Miliband.

    The improvement team, working separately from Ofsted, will have powers to set out school improvement plans, order greater collaboration between schools or even remove failing headteachers. The body would have powers to intervene with academies, free schools and community schools.


    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/feb/09/ed-miliband-labour-parents-headteachers
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928

    DavidL said:

    Disappointing for the tories. When are these Lib Dems going to start going home? When are the floating voters going to start realising that their economic futures would once again be at risk with a party which thinks government spending is the answer to everything?

    In the LAB-CON marginals my guess is that most of the 2010 LD switchers have made up their minds and won't be reverting. In the LD-CON marginals the main yellow GE strategy will be to keep the LAB tactical voters and encourage more.

    That sounds credible. However if the Party has been reduced to simply encouraging tactical voters to stop the Tories it's essentially a nothing Party. Perhaps that's just necessary short term tactics, the retreat before the big surge in 2020.
  • Charles said:

    Wonder how the teaching unions will react to tomorrow's Grauniad front page:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/92703/the_guardian_sunday_9th_february_2014.html

    Express even more garbage than usual. 2 week old photo of baby George plus some rubbish on how they have cracked the secret of neutralising the rhinovirus.
    And the FT have picked up on probably the most important story of the day: "EU Swiss warning sends signal to the UK"

    That looks like the big story to me too. The Swiss electorate has clearly decided they want a new relationship with the EU, even if that means less access to the single market. It's noteworthy that it was the Italian-speaking part that was most in favour of quotas - far fewer immigrants and also far fewer large-scale exporting businesses. Pharma and finance will not be happy, that's for sure.

    And the EU will negotiate with the Swiss with more than one eye on the UK.

    Just as they will negotiate with the Sçots with more than one eye on a Catalonia et al.

    Bit unfair on the Swiss and the Scots, but c'est la víe!

    The EU can certainly now make Switzerland a much less attractive place to, say, run a hedge fund or similar. It is definitely a chance to send signals.

    How?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Charles said:

    Wonder how the teaching unions will react to tomorrow's Grauniad front page:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/92703/the_guardian_sunday_9th_february_2014.html

    Express even more garbage than usual. 2 week old photo of baby George plus some rubbish on how they have cracked the secret of neutralising the rhinovirus.
    And the FT have picked up on probably the most important story of the day: "EU Swiss warning sends signal to the UK"

    That looks like the big story to me too. The Swiss electorate has clearly decided they want a new relationship with the EU, even if that means less access to the single market. It's noteworthy that it was the Italian-speaking part that was most in favour of quotas - far fewer immigrants and also far fewer large-scale exporting businesses. Pharma and finance will not be happy, that's for sure.

    And the EU will negotiate with the Swiss with more than one eye on the UK.

    Just as they will negotiate with the Sçots with more than one eye on a Catalonia et al.

    Bit unfair on the Swiss and the Scots, but c'est la víe!

    The EU can certainly now make Switzerland a much less attractive place to, say, run a hedge fund or similar. It is definitely a chance to send signals.

    Bullying an independent country because you don't approve of something they have voted for? Really? You disgust me. Again.

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    fitalass said:
    It must have been very confusing in court, what with all three of the guilty men being called "Mohammed".

  • That looks like the big story to me too. The Swiss electorate has clearly decided they want a new relationship with the EU, even if that means less access to the single market. It's noteworthy that it was the Italian-speaking part that was most in favour of quotas - far fewer immigrants and also far fewer large-scale exporting businesses. Pharma and finance will not be happy, that's for sure.

    I wonder if they have decided that. Maybe all that this illustrates is that, if you take decisions one at a time, you get inconsistency and direct contradiction between the different decisions.
    No, I expect they wanted their current relationship with the EU AND immigration control....Wonder who is going to break it to them......
    They will find out when they have to fill in landing cards and queue in line with e.g. Africans when their plane lands in the UK.

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    Hugh said:

    Hugh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:



    Tories at this point must be beginning to wonder what it is going to take to persuade people to re-elect them. It is not proving easy.

    Mr L I am all agog with the common sense in that post. I think I now need a lie down.
    No need to be agog at common sense from DavidL. He's been the voice of Tory sanity as long as I've been reading PB.
    It just came out of the blue. I think we need a warning if he is going to post something like that among all the other right wing pony on here.
    Trick is not to get sucked down into the sewer by the relentless torrent of rightwing effluent pouring onto PB.

    There are sane Tories. It's a shame for democracy that they're not prominent in their crumbling once-great Party, but there we go.
    You're right we shouldn't just dismiss all people who vote Tory as baby eaters etc. It's interesting that Michael Gove is such a divisive figure even amongst Tory voters. I think the Tory commentariat makes a big mistake in thinking that the Tories THEY particularly like are the ones who are popular with the Tory masses. Ultimately there are a lot of people who think immigration has been too high and that Labour is incompetent and got us into a mess. Middle England is not obsessed by the free market or the choice agenda in public services. It's a figment of the Tory commentariat's imagination.

    Why do they believe it? Probably because they think Blair took the same view and his election victories meant one must take his assumptions about what middle England wanted at face value.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    fitalass said:
    Ukip took out an advert in the local rag in Wythenshawe warning people of this last week... Can it really be true??? Surely a massive story if so?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,889
    12 Years a Slave well worth seeing, a very powerful and evocative film!
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    fitalass said:
    Have I missed something here or are we now linking nine year old articles.

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    isam said:

    fitalass said:
    Ukip took out an advert in the local rag in Wythenshawe warning people of this last week... Can it really be true??? Surely a massive story if so?
    There are plenty of examples of the left being guilty of such things more recently as well - but this particular instance is a few years old.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    fitalass said:
    Have I missed something here or are we now linking nine year old articles.

    fitalass said:
    Have I missed something here or are we now linking nine year old articles.

    Oh wow I didn't notice that!
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759

    fitalass said:
    Have I missed something here or are we now linking nine year old articles.

    lol...PB Tories becoming desperate!
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    GeoffM said:

    isam said:

    fitalass said:
    Ukip took out an advert in the local rag in Wythenshawe warning people of this last week... Can it really be true??? Surely a massive story if so?
    There are plenty of examples of the left being guilty of such things more recently as well - but this particular instance is a few years old.

    A few years old???? It's nearly a decade old.
  • GeoffM said:

    Charles said:

    Wonder how the teaching unions will react to tomorrow's Grauniad front page:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/92703/the_guardian_sunday_9th_february_2014.html

    Express even more garbage than usual. 2 week old photo of baby George plus some rubbish on how they have cracked the secret of neutralising the rhinovirus.
    And the FT have picked up on probably the most important story of the day: "EU Swiss warning sends signal to the UK"

    That looks like the big story to me too. The Swiss electorate has clearly decided they want a new relationship with the EU, even if that means less access to the single market. It's noteworthy that it was the Italian-speaking part that was most in favour of quotas - far fewer immigrants and also far fewer large-scale exporting businesses. Pharma and finance will not be happy, that's for sure.

    And the EU will negotiate with the Swiss with more than one eye on the UK.

    Just as they will negotiate with the Sçots with more than one eye on a Catalonia et al.

    Bit unfair on the Swiss and the Scots, but c'est la víe!

    The EU can certainly now make Switzerland a much less attractive place to, say, run a hedge fund or similar. It is definitely a chance to send signals.

    Bullying an independent country because you don't approve of something they have voted for? Really? You disgust me. Again.

    In fairness to the EU (not something I write often) you can't have associate members of the club unilaterally changing the rules....

  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    isam said:

    fitalass said:
    Ukip took out an advert in the local rag in Wythenshawe warning people of this last week... Can it really be true??? Surely a massive story if so?
    So UKIP took out an ad to tell people of something that happened 9 years ago-Must be a sorry state of affairs for them in Manchester!
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    isam said:

    fitalass said:
    Have I missed something here or are we now linking nine year old articles.

    fitalass said:
    Have I missed something here or are we now linking nine year old articles.

    Oh wow I didn't notice that!
    I did comment that it was a few years old :)
    But it was an easy thing to overlook as the theft of postal votes by the left is pretty much a rolling and ongoing scandal.

  • GeoffM said:

    isam said:

    fitalass said:
    Ukip took out an advert in the local rag in Wythenshawe warning people of this last week... Can it really be true??? Surely a massive story if so?
    There are plenty of examples of the left being guilty of such things more recently as well - but this particular instance is a few years old.

    A few years old???? It's nearly a decade old.
    Is it not happening anymore then? Good, that means a level playing field, not sure that suits Labour but is vital for democracy.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    GeoffM said:

    Charles said:

    Wonder how the teaching unions will react to tomorrow's Grauniad front page:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/92703/the_guardian_sunday_9th_february_2014.html

    Express even more garbage than usual. 2 week old photo of baby George plus some rubbish on how they have cracked the secret of neutralising the rhinovirus.
    And the FT have picked up on probably the most important story of the day: "EU Swiss warning sends signal to the UK"

    That looks like the big story to me too. The Swiss electorate has clearly decided they want a new relationship with the EU, even if that means less access to the single market. It's noteworthy that it was the Italian-speaking part that was most in favour of quotas - far fewer immigrants and also far fewer large-scale exporting businesses. Pharma and finance will not be happy, that's for sure.

    And the EU will negotiate with the Swiss with more than one eye on the UK.

    Just as they will negotiate with the Sçots with more than one eye on a Catalonia et al.

    Bit unfair on the Swiss and the Scots, but c'est la víe!

    The EU can certainly now make Switzerland a much less attractive place to, say, run a hedge fund or similar. It is definitely a chance to send signals.

    Bullying an independent country because you don't approve of something they have voted for? Really? You disgust me. Again.

    In fairness to the EU (not something I write often) you can't have associate members of the club unilaterally changing the rules....

    Democracy is a terribly annoying thing and it'd be much more helpful to the EU if it wasn't allowed.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2014
    HYUFD said:

    12 Years a Slave well worth seeing, a very powerful and evocative film!

    Hmmm I was a little disappointed... Think it would've been better if we had got to know Solomon better before he was a slave... And Brad Pitts character seemed a bit comical

    Some scenes were pretty harrowing though, how did humans treat each other like that? Ignorance isn't an excuse, even if you thought black people were animals, who would treat animals that way?

This discussion has been closed.