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LAB no longer odds on to win a majority – politicalbetting.com

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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,684
    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    Well, we will see in just two weeks time, so not really worth the candle to argue about it now.

    Lots of orange diamonds around me this last week.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792
    edited April 2023

    ohnotnow said:

    FPT (as I just finished dinner and am late to the party)

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally I thought it was rather ironic that on a day when a minister was fired for allegations of what appears to be fairly low-level bullying being upheld, OFSTED, against who, there have been literally countless allegations of bullying, fraud, and even safeguarding breaches against children, announced it would not change any of its behaviours despite their bullying literally killing people.

    Does anyone else sense a double standard?

    I was struck by that this morning, listening to the latest news report regarding OFSTED. They appear to assume they are immune from any responsibility for the results of their actions.
    They are the Guardians

    Read the Republic to realise how stupid the idea is. To the point that some philosophers resort to the "Plato was being sarcastic" excuse.
    This reminds me to rewatch the wonderful & curious 70s TV show 'The Guardians' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardians_(British_TV_series)

    "The Guardians is a dystopian political thriller set in the 1980s. Following economic chaos, democratic government has been overthrown in a bloodless coup, the Royal Family fled into self-imposed exile and the United Kingdom is ruled autocratically by Prime Minister Sir Timothy Hobson. Hobson is initially a pawn of 'the General'; a military officer by the name of Roger, who later becomes the Minister of Defence. Hobson subscribes to an outwardly benevolent paternalistic fascism, based on the principle that "democracy is a form of group suicide.""

    Some episodes are tosh, but some are really very good and the overall series is a good window into 1970s 'dystopian thought'.

    '1990' is another 70s variation on the theme from an almost opposite viewpoint (left-wing authoritarian government & starring Edward Woodward).
    I think we read the book at school! This is the one where the UK is split into the "City" and the "County" by a massive wall, right?
    I think that might be conflated with 'The Death of Grass'? I might well be getting that wrong myself as it's been a long time since I read it though.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,848
    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    FPT (as I just finished dinner and am late to the party)

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally I thought it was rather ironic that on a day when a minister was fired for allegations of what appears to be fairly low-level bullying being upheld, OFSTED, against who, there have been literally countless allegations of bullying, fraud, and even safeguarding breaches against children, announced it would not change any of its behaviours despite their bullying literally killing people.

    Does anyone else sense a double standard?

    I was struck by that this morning, listening to the latest news report regarding OFSTED. They appear to assume they are immune from any responsibility for the results of their actions.
    They are the Guardians

    Read the Republic to realise how stupid the idea is. To the point that some philosophers resort to the "Plato was being sarcastic" excuse.
    This reminds me to rewatch the wonderful & curious 70s TV show 'The Guardians' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardians_(British_TV_series)

    "The Guardians is a dystopian political thriller set in the 1980s. Following economic chaos, democratic government has been overthrown in a bloodless coup, the Royal Family fled into self-imposed exile and the United Kingdom is ruled autocratically by Prime Minister Sir Timothy Hobson. Hobson is initially a pawn of 'the General'; a military officer by the name of Roger, who later becomes the Minister of Defence. Hobson subscribes to an outwardly benevolent paternalistic fascism, based on the principle that "democracy is a form of group suicide.""

    Some episodes are tosh, but some are really very good and the overall series is a good window into 1970s 'dystopian thought'.

    '1990' is another 70s variation on the theme from an almost opposite viewpoint (left-wing authoritarian government & starring Edward Woodward).
    I think we read the book at school! This is the one where the UK is split into the "City" and the "County" by a massive wall, right?
    I think that might be conflated with 'The Death of Grass'?
    No, I was right! "Conurbs" and "County".
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    Well, we will see in just two weeks time, so not really worth the candle to argue about it now.

    Lots of orange diamonds around me this last week.
    LD voters are always the keenest to put up posters.

    CON not so much. Especially in London!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    FPT (as I just finished dinner and am late to the party)

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally I thought it was rather ironic that on a day when a minister was fired for allegations of what appears to be fairly low-level bullying being upheld, OFSTED, against who, there have been literally countless allegations of bullying, fraud, and even safeguarding breaches against children, announced it would not change any of its behaviours despite their bullying literally killing people.

    Does anyone else sense a double standard?

    I was struck by that this morning, listening to the latest news report regarding OFSTED. They appear to assume they are immune from any responsibility for the results of their actions.
    They are the Guardians

    Read the Republic to realise how stupid the idea is. To the point that some philosophers resort to the "Plato was being sarcastic" excuse.
    This reminds me to rewatch the wonderful & curious 70s TV show 'The Guardians' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardians_(British_TV_series)

    "The Guardians is a dystopian political thriller set in the 1980s. Following economic chaos, democratic government has been overthrown in a bloodless coup, the Royal Family fled into self-imposed exile and the United Kingdom is ruled autocratically by Prime Minister Sir Timothy Hobson. Hobson is initially a pawn of 'the General'; a military officer by the name of Roger, who later becomes the Minister of Defence. Hobson subscribes to an outwardly benevolent paternalistic fascism, based on the principle that "democracy is a form of group suicide.""

    Some episodes are tosh, but some are really very good and the overall series is a good window into 1970s 'dystopian thought'.

    '1990' is another 70s variation on the theme from an almost opposite viewpoint (left-wing authoritarian government & starring Edward Woodward).
    I think we read the book at school! This is the one where the UK is split into the "City" and the "County" by a massive wall, right?
    I think that might be conflated with 'The Death of Grass'? I might well be getting that wrong myself as it's been a long time since I read it though.
    I think Sunil wins this round.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardians_(Christopher_novel)

    Not read it, but did enjoy The Death of Grass. A rare post (well kind during) apocalypse novel which didn't feel overly contrived.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,667

    On Topic ROFL

    Wait till the GE the liar that is SKS is going to be pulverised by the right wing press

    The Morning Star and Socialist Worker?
    The fact SKS is going to crash and burn is your problem. You backed his lies you are culpable.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,046
    edited April 2023

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    Well, we will see in just two weeks time, so not really worth the candle to argue about it now.

    Lots of orange diamonds around me this last week.
    LD voters are always the keenest to put up posters.

    CON not so much. Especially in London!
    Many Conservative voters think it is a bit common to put up posters for a political party or candidate, especially the posher ones. There are also more shy Tories than shy Labour or shy LD voters.

    I remember in 2015 seeing far more Labour posters than Conservative ones around but Cameron's Conservatives still won a majority
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,667

    Dialup said:

    Keir Starmer may be rubbish but he’s still 10 points ahead at worst.

    So what is the Tory strategy from here?

    Watch Starmer fuck.it up
    Popcorn time
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    Well, we will see in just two weeks time, so not really worth the candle to argue about it now.

    Lots of orange diamonds around me this last week.
    LD voters are always the keenest to put up posters.

    CON not so much. Especially in London!
    Many Conservative voters think it is a bit common to put up posters for a political party or candidate, especially the posher ones. There are also more shy Tories than shy Labour or LD voters.

    I remember in 2015 seeing far more Labour posters than Conservative ones around but Cameron's Conservatives still won a majority
    Posters = Twitter?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    Have we had this one tonight?

    "Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 45% (-)
    CON: 31% (+2)
    LDEM: 8% (-2)
    REF: 5% (-)
    GRN: 3% (-)

    via
    @Savanta_UK
    , 14 - 16 Apr"

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1649448668360060928
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,020

    On Topic ROFL

    Wait till the GE the liar that is SKS is going to be pulverised by the right wing press

    The Morning Star and Socialist Worker?
    The fact SKS is going to crash and burn is your problem. You backed his lies you are culpable.
    I voted for Lisa Nandy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,848
    Andy_JS said:

    Have we had this one tonight?

    "Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 45% (-)
    CON: 31% (+2)
    LDEM: 8% (-2)
    REF: 5% (-)
    GRN: 3% (-)

    via
    @Savanta_UK
    , 14 - 16 Apr"

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1649448668360060928

    Sleazy, broken Tories ON THE RISE???
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    Not sure this one has been posted (came out this afternoon):
    Savanta UK
    @Savanta_UK
    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention

    📈14pt Labour lead

    🌹Lab 45 (=)
    🌳Con 31 (+2)
    🔶LD 8 (-2)
    ➡️Reform 5 (=)
    🎗️SNP 3 (=)
    🌍Green 3 (=)
    ⬜️Other 4 (=)

    2,237 UK adults, 14-16 April

    (chg from 31 March - 2 April)

    https://twitter.com/Savanta_UK/status/1649437586069372928
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,046
    Andy_JS said:

    Have we had this one tonight?

    "Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 45% (-)
    CON: 31% (+2)
    LDEM: 8% (-2)
    REF: 5% (-)
    GRN: 3% (-)

    via
    @Savanta_UK
    , 14 - 16 Apr"

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1649448668360060928

    Well Rishi is up to Major 1997 or Hague 2001 levels now at least
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,667
    Labour poster deliverers called the other day wanted to know if I wanted a garden stake, seemed to think I was still a supporter

    I asked if SKS could deliver it in person as the stake would come in handy
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,046
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    Well, we will see in just two weeks time, so not really worth the candle to argue about it now.

    Lots of orange diamonds around me this last week.
    LD voters are always the keenest to put up posters.

    CON not so much. Especially in London!
    Many Conservative voters think it is a bit common to put up posters for a political party or candidate, especially the posher ones. There are also more shy Tories than shy Labour or LD voters.

    I remember in 2015 seeing far more Labour posters than Conservative ones around but Cameron's Conservatives still won a majority
    Posters = Twitter?
    For the same reason Labour supporters are much more likely to tweet openly their political opinions than Conservative voters are
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    I feel like the first part about settlement goes against the second bit. Seems to be all they've said is they'll go as far as Dominion, so offer a bit more than they go now the sides know you'll go at least that far.

    Wow. Smartmatic just announced that it will not accept any settlement under $787 million from Fox & that it will need a “full retraction” of lies & misstatements by Fox. Smartmatic is not playing around here and they are about to make Fox find out. This is how it’s done.

    Also important to note: “Smartmatic is ‘looking to take this case through trial’ & wants ‘the vindication of a jury verdict in their favor.’” Full story below


    https://twitter.com/Victorshi2020/status/1649416349343416324?cxt=HHwWiICw1cjb8-MtAAAA
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    ...

    Dialup said:

    Keir Starmer may be rubbish but he’s still 10 points ahead at worst.

    So what is the Tory strategy from here?

    Watch Starmer fuck.it up
    Popcorn time
    Why are you so desperate for another five years of Conservative corruption and inertia? Because like it or not, unless there is some divine intervention, it is either that or Starmer.

    You were not long ago trumpeting Conservative levelling up in South and West Yorkshire. Remind me how that's going today.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,667

    On Topic ROFL

    Wait till the GE the liar that is SKS is going to be pulverised by the right wing press

    The Morning Star and Socialist Worker?
    The fact SKS is going to crash and burn is your problem. You backed his lies you are culpable.
    I voted for Lisa Nandy.
    Me too. You are happier with SKS's u turns than me though
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Have we had this one tonight?

    "Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 45% (-)
    CON: 31% (+2)
    LDEM: 8% (-2)
    REF: 5% (-)
    GRN: 3% (-)

    via
    @Savanta_UK
    , 14 - 16 Apr"

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1649448668360060928

    Well Rishi is up to Major 1997 or Hague 2001 levels now at least
    One of your (intentionally) funniest efforts!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,020

    On Topic ROFL

    Wait till the GE the liar that is SKS is going to be pulverised by the right wing press

    The Morning Star and Socialist Worker?
    The fact SKS is going to crash and burn is your problem. You backed his lies you are culpable.
    I voted for Lisa Nandy.
    Me too. You are happier with SKS's u turns than me though
    I want a Labour government.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,667

    ...

    Dialup said:

    Keir Starmer may be rubbish but he’s still 10 points ahead at worst.

    So what is the Tory strategy from here?

    Watch Starmer fuck.it up
    Popcorn time
    Why are you so desperate for another five years of Conservative corruption and inertia? Because like it or not, unless there is some divine intervention, it is either that or Starmer.

    You were not long ago trumpeting Conservative levelling up in South and West Yorkshire. Remind me how that's going today.
    Levelling up in Staveley was what I was trumpeting and since you ask. Another massive tranche being used this very day.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    Well, we will see in just two weeks time, so not really worth the candle to argue about it now.

    Lots of orange diamonds around me this last week.
    Oadby and Wigston?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,667

    ...

    Dialup said:

    Keir Starmer may be rubbish but he’s still 10 points ahead at worst.

    So what is the Tory strategy from here?

    Watch Starmer fuck.it up
    Popcorn time
    Why are you so desperate for another five years of Conservative corruption and inertia? Because like it or not, unless there is some divine intervention, it is either that or Starmer.

    You were not long ago trumpeting Conservative levelling up in South and West Yorkshire. Remind me how that's going today.
    Levelling up in Staveley was what I was trumpeting and since you ask. Another massive tranche being used this very day.
    https://twitter.com/StaveleyMWFC/status/1649336433482539009
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    The comparison that matters is with the situation at GE 2019.

    In contrast to 2019, LD supporters will no longer be put off voting for a Labour Party in the grip of Corbyn's far left extremists. And with the passing of time, there's already ample evidence that Labour supporters are no longer put off voting LD by memories of their role in facilitating Cameron's government, whereas in 2019 those memories were still fairly fresh.

    On the Tory side, it's not particularly obvious to me that Sunak is any more popular now than Johnson was back in 2019. The comparison is with the Johnson of 2019, not the disgraced politician that Johnson had become by 2022.
    What's more, there was organised tactical voting on the right in 2019, because the Brexit Party stood down in marginal Tory seats, whereas Reform won't be standing down in those seats next time.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,667

    On Topic ROFL

    Wait till the GE the liar that is SKS is going to be pulverised by the right wing press

    The Morning Star and Socialist Worker?
    The fact SKS is going to crash and burn is your problem. You backed his lies you are culpable.
    I voted for Lisa Nandy.
    Me too. You are happier with SKS's u turns than me though
    I want a Labour government.
    Why they offer nothing different at all to the Tories under SKS

    What are you hoping they will do?

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,684
    edited April 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    Well, we will see in just two weeks time, so not really worth the candle to argue about it now.

    Lots of orange diamonds around me this last week.
    Oadby and Wigston?
    Yes, but also Evington in Leicester, and Bushby in Harborough.

    I haven't seen any posters for anyone else so far.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,667

    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    The comparison that matters is with the situation at GE 2019.

    In contrast to 2019, LD supporters will no longer be put off voting for a Labour Party in the grip of Corbyn's far left extremists. And with the passing of time, there's already ample evidence that Labour supporters are no longer put off voting LD by memories of their role in facilitating Cameron's government, whereas in 2019 those memories were still fairly fresh.

    On the Tory side, it's not particularly obvious to me that Sunak is any more popular now than Johnson was back in 2019. The comparison is with the Johnson of 2019, not the disgraced politician that Johnson had become by 2022.
    What's more, there was organised tactical voting on the right in 2019, because the Brexit Party stood down in marginal Tory seats, whereas Reform won't be standing down in those seats next time.
    Corbyn far left my arse

    Go boil your Centrist head.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,684
    edited April 2023

    On Topic ROFL

    Wait till the GE the liar that is SKS is going to be pulverised by the right wing press

    The Morning Star and Socialist Worker?
    The fact SKS is going to crash and burn is your problem. You backed his lies you are culpable.
    I voted for Lisa Nandy.
    Me too. You are happier with SKS's u turns than me though
    I want a Labour government.
    Why they offer nothing different at all to the Tories under SKS

    What are you hoping they will do?

    I have few hopes too for a Starmer government, and it is a shit choice, but still better than the current government.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    The comparison that matters is with the situation at GE 2019.

    In contrast to 2019, LD supporters will no longer be put off voting for a Labour Party in the grip of Corbyn's far left extremists. And with the passing of time, there's already ample evidence that Labour supporters are no longer put off voting LD by memories of their role in facilitating Cameron's government, whereas in 2019 those memories were still fairly fresh.

    On the Tory side, it's not particularly obvious to me that Sunak is any more popular now than Johnson was back in 2019. The comparison is with the Johnson of 2019, not the disgraced politician that Johnson had become by 2022.
    What's more, there was organised tactical voting on the right in 2019, because the Brexit Party stood down in marginal Tory seats, whereas Reform won't be standing down in those seats next time.
    Corbyn far left my arse

    Go boil your Centrist head.
    Sorry I'll qualify that. Corbyn far left anti-semitic Putin toadying extremists.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    The comparison that matters is with the situation at GE 2019.

    In contrast to 2019, LD supporters will no longer be put off voting for a Labour Party in the grip of Corbyn's far left extremists. And with the passing of time, there's already ample evidence that Labour supporters are no longer put off voting LD by memories of their role in facilitating Cameron's government, whereas in 2019 those memories were still fairly fresh.

    On the Tory side, it's not particularly obvious to me that Sunak is any more popular now than Johnson was back in 2019. The comparison is with the Johnson of 2019, not the disgraced politician that Johnson had become by 2022.
    What's more, there was organised tactical voting on the right in 2019, because the Brexit Party stood down in marginal Tory seats, whereas Reform won't be standing down in those seats next time.
    Corbyn far left my arse

    Go boil your Centrist head.
    I thought the whole point of Corbyn, and what enthused people about him, was that he was radical and not centre-left, he was offering different, properly left solutions. For accuracy's sake, what is the dividing line between radical left and far left? (Yes, there can be a debate about the line between right and far-right too).
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    Well, we will see in just two weeks time, so not really worth the candle to argue about it now.

    Lots of orange diamonds around me this last week.
    No, you may have misinterpret my point to which HY was replying. I was referring to tactical voting in a GE, which is a very different scenario to local elections. I don't think any lessons on that can be drawn for a GE from events in two weeks time.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Blimey, I didn't know sentencing remarks could be so spicy - on the chaps who protested on that Dartford bridge.
    https://twitter.com/BarbaraRich_law/status/1649455542031581188/photo/2
    Sentencing remarks give some voice to ordinary members of the public affected by protesters’ actions, here the closing of the Dartford Crossing road bridge
    https://judiciary.uk/wp-content/upl



    Some weird grammatical errors in parts though.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    kle4 said:

    Blimey, I didn't know sentencing remarks could be so spicy - on the chaps who protested on that Dartford bridge.
    https://twitter.com/BarbaraRich_law/status/1649455542031581188/photo/2
    Sentencing remarks give some voice to ordinary members of the public affected by protesters’ actions, here the closing of the Dartford Crossing road bridge
    https://judiciary.uk/wp-content/upl



    Some weird grammatical errors in parts though.

    Standards aren't what they used to be.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,667

    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    The comparison that matters is with the situation at GE 2019.

    In contrast to 2019, LD supporters will no longer be put off voting for a Labour Party in the grip of Corbyn's far left extremists. And with the passing of time, there's already ample evidence that Labour supporters are no longer put off voting LD by memories of their role in facilitating Cameron's government, whereas in 2019 those memories were still fairly fresh.

    On the Tory side, it's not particularly obvious to me that Sunak is any more popular now than Johnson was back in 2019. The comparison is with the Johnson of 2019, not the disgraced politician that Johnson had become by 2022.
    What's more, there was organised tactical voting on the right in 2019, because the Brexit Party stood down in marginal Tory seats, whereas Reform won't be standing down in those seats next time.
    Corbyn far left my arse

    Go boil your Centrist head.
    Sorry I'll qualify that. Corbyn far left anti-semitic Putin toadying extremists.
    Phil Wulrun lying centrist is responsible for all Tory failings as he preferred an extreme right Government to the moderate Socialism offered by Corbyn.

    Phil and his centrists used anti Semitism lies as a factional tool and supported the election of apartheid supporting heirachy of racism implementing liar SKS.

    Every element of your qualification is total bollocks Not far left not anti semitic and not Putin supporting.

    Par for the course amongst lying centrist mind
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,667
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    The comparison that matters is with the situation at GE 2019.

    In contrast to 2019, LD supporters will no longer be put off voting for a Labour Party in the grip of Corbyn's far left extremists. And with the passing of time, there's already ample evidence that Labour supporters are no longer put off voting LD by memories of their role in facilitating Cameron's government, whereas in 2019 those memories were still fairly fresh.

    On the Tory side, it's not particularly obvious to me that Sunak is any more popular now than Johnson was back in 2019. The comparison is with the Johnson of 2019, not the disgraced politician that Johnson had become by 2022.
    What's more, there was organised tactical voting on the right in 2019, because the Brexit Party stood down in marginal Tory seats, whereas Reform won't be standing down in those seats next time.
    Corbyn far left my arse

    Go boil your Centrist head.
    I thought the whole point of Corbyn, and what enthused people about him, was that he was radical and not centre-left, he was offering different, properly left solutions. For accuracy's sake, what is the dividing line between radical left and far left? (Yes, there can be a debate about the line between right and far-right too).
    Corbyns 2017 and 2019 manifestos would not be dissimilar to that offered across Europe by Centre left Parties.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    The comparison that matters is with the situation at GE 2019.

    In contrast to 2019, LD supporters will no longer be put off voting for a Labour Party in the grip of Corbyn's far left extremists. And with the passing of time, there's already ample evidence that Labour supporters are no longer put off voting LD by memories of their role in facilitating Cameron's government, whereas in 2019 those memories were still fairly fresh.

    On the Tory side, it's not particularly obvious to me that Sunak is any more popular now than Johnson was back in 2019. The comparison is with the Johnson of 2019, not the disgraced politician that Johnson had become by 2022.
    What's more, there was organised tactical voting on the right in 2019, because the Brexit Party stood down in marginal Tory seats, whereas Reform won't be standing down in those seats next time.
    Corbyn far left my arse

    Go boil your Centrist head.
    I thought the whole point of Corbyn, and what enthused people about him, was that he was radical and not centre-left, he was offering different, properly left solutions. For accuracy's sake, what is the dividing line between radical left and far left? (Yes, there can be a debate about the line between right and far-right too).
    Corbyns 2017 and 2019 manifestos would not be dissimilar to that offered across Europe by Centre left Parties.
    So all those supporters who felt he was offering a radical, fresh alternative basically undermined him by making him seem less like a boring old centre-left option?
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    The comparison that matters is with the situation at GE 2019.

    In contrast to 2019, LD supporters will no longer be put off voting for a Labour Party in the grip of Corbyn's far left extremists. And with the passing of time, there's already ample evidence that Labour supporters are no longer put off voting LD by memories of their role in facilitating Cameron's government, whereas in 2019 those memories were still fairly fresh.

    On the Tory side, it's not particularly obvious to me that Sunak is any more popular now than Johnson was back in 2019. The comparison is with the Johnson of 2019, not the disgraced politician that Johnson had become by 2022.
    What's more, there was organised tactical voting on the right in 2019, because the Brexit Party stood down in marginal Tory seats, whereas Reform won't be standing down in those seats next time.
    Corbyn far left my arse

    Go boil your Centrist head.
    Sorry I'll qualify that. Corbyn far left anti-semitic Putin toadying extremists.
    Phil Wulrun lying centrist is responsible for all Tory failings as he preferred an extreme right Government to the moderate Socialism offered by Corbyn.

    Phil and his centrists used anti Semitism lies as a factional tool and supported the election of apartheid supporting heirachy of racism implementing liar SKS.

    Every element of your qualification is total bollocks Not far left not anti semitic and not Putin supporting.

    Par for the course amongst lying centrist mind
    You've lost the plot pal. Go seek some help.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Speaking of worse Corbyns, apparently he's still going.

    Piers Corbyn crashes Extinction Rebellion church service in London as climate protesters begin several days of demos. Former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn’s brother was thrown out of the prayer meeting. Piers says climate change does not exist. #ExtinctionRebellion @Piers_Corbyn
    https://twitter.com/Urban_Pictures/status/1649376225553514498

    I wonder what he used to spend his time doing.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    It's probably likely to be more like 6% or 7%. But 5% is possible.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,667
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    The comparison that matters is with the situation at GE 2019.

    In contrast to 2019, LD supporters will no longer be put off voting for a Labour Party in the grip of Corbyn's far left extremists. And with the passing of time, there's already ample evidence that Labour supporters are no longer put off voting LD by memories of their role in facilitating Cameron's government, whereas in 2019 those memories were still fairly fresh.

    On the Tory side, it's not particularly obvious to me that Sunak is any more popular now than Johnson was back in 2019. The comparison is with the Johnson of 2019, not the disgraced politician that Johnson had become by 2022.
    What's more, there was organised tactical voting on the right in 2019, because the Brexit Party stood down in marginal Tory seats, whereas Reform won't be standing down in those seats next time.
    Corbyn far left my arse

    Go boil your Centrist head.
    I thought the whole point of Corbyn, and what enthused people about him, was that he was radical and not centre-left, he was offering different, properly left solutions. For accuracy's sake, what is the dividing line between radical left and far left? (Yes, there can be a debate about the line between right and far-right too).
    Corbyns 2017 and 2019 manifestos would not be dissimilar to that offered across Europe by Centre left Parties.
    So all those supporters who felt he was offering a radical, fresh alternative basically undermined him by making him seem less like a boring old centre-left option?
    In 2017 Corbyn offered an end to Austerity and redistribution of wealth as well as better public services via a moderate increase in taxes for the wealthiest. Hardly radical in European terms but compared to what Labour was saying pre Corbyn a radical change
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    Gina Miller accuses Dominic Raab of calling her a "silly bitch" a number of years ago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLMjW4j25CE
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,046

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour may need only a 5% lead in the popular vote to secure a GE majority.

    eg. General election modelling using Electoral Calculus, using the new boundaries:
    GB: Con 35%, Lab 40%, LD 12%, Reform 3%, Green 3%.
    Assume a quarter of all electors are willing to vote tactically.
    Scotland: Con 20%, Lab 27%, LD 8%, SNP 37%.

    Result: Labour overall majority of 2, with 326 seats.

    I think the extent of voters voting tactically against the Tories is much less v a Sunak led Tories than it was against a Johnson or Truss led Tories
    The comparison that matters is with the situation at GE 2019.

    In contrast to 2019, LD supporters will no longer be put off voting for a Labour Party in the grip of Corbyn's far left extremists. And with the passing of time, there's already ample evidence that Labour supporters are no longer put off voting LD by memories of their role in facilitating Cameron's government, whereas in 2019 those memories were still fairly fresh.

    On the Tory side, it's not particularly obvious to me that Sunak is any more popular now than Johnson was back in 2019. The comparison is with the Johnson of 2019, not the disgraced politician that Johnson had become by 2022.
    What's more, there was organised tactical voting on the right in 2019, because the Brexit Party stood down in marginal Tory seats, whereas Reform won't be standing down in those seats next time.
    Corbyn far left my arse

    Go boil your Centrist head.
    I thought the whole point of Corbyn, and what enthused people about him, was that he was radical and not centre-left, he was offering different, properly left solutions. For accuracy's sake, what is the dividing line between radical left and far left? (Yes, there can be a debate about the line between right and far-right too).
    Corbyns 2017 and 2019 manifestos would not be dissimilar to that offered across Europe by Centre left Parties.
    So all those supporters who felt he was offering a radical, fresh alternative basically undermined him by making him seem less like a boring old centre-left option?
    In 2017 Corbyn offered an end to Austerity and redistribution of wealth as well as better public services via a moderate increase in taxes for the wealthiest. Hardly radical in European terms but compared to what Labour was saying pre Corbyn a radical change
    Depends which parts of Europe, certainly radical compares to say Switzerland. We also know in his heart Corbyn wanted to turn us into Cuba or Venezuela not Sweden or Denmark
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    edited April 2023
    "Dominic Raab sunk by row over Spanish forces in Gibraltar

    Dominic Raab resigned on Friday after an official report found that he bullied a British ambassador said to have secretly proposed putting Spanish boots on the ground in Gibraltar during Brexit talks.

    The Telegraph can reveal that the civil servant at the heart of the incident was Hugh Elliott, the British Ambassador to Spain.

    Allies of Mr Raab have claimed that Mr Elliott went beyond the Cabinet-agreed position to never have Spanish officers permanently stationed in Gibraltar." (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/04/21/dominic-raab-sunk-row-over-spanish-forces-in-gibraltar/
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Totally OT but is everybody watching The Diplomat on Netflix? It's so great, it's like Homeland, West Wing and The Thick of It all in one program.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161
    kle4 said:

    I feel like the first part about settlement goes against the second bit. Seems to be all they've said is they'll go as far as Dominion, so offer a bit more than they go now the sides know you'll go at least that far.

    Wow. Smartmatic just announced that it will not accept any settlement under $787 million from Fox & that it will need a “full retraction” of lies & misstatements by Fox. Smartmatic is not playing around here and they are about to make Fox find out. This is how it’s done.

    Also important to note: “Smartmatic is ‘looking to take this case through trial’ & wants ‘the vindication of a jury verdict in their favor.’” Full story below


    https://twitter.com/Victorshi2020/status/1649416349343416324?cxt=HHwWiICw1cjb8-MtAAAA

    Yes: Dominion and Fox have set a price, and Smartmatic is saying "beat that, or we're going to trial".

    The thing is, delightful as it would be to see Fox in court, there is no guarantee of success. The management of Smartmatic would surely rather accept $450m than lose in court.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161

    Totally OT but is everybody watching The Diplomat on Netflix? It's so great, it's like Homeland, West Wing and The Thick of It all in one program.

    A friend of mine is in it 😀
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    rcs1000 said:

    Totally OT but is everybody watching The Diplomat on Netflix? It's so great, it's like Homeland, West Wing and The Thick of It all in one program.

    A friend of mine is in it 😀
    Ask when the next series is, I've run out of episodes,and I need the next series.
This discussion has been closed.