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  • Charles said:


    The fact that you choose to use a name that Osborne stopped using when he was a teenager leads me to believe that, regardless of their performance, you would have a negative view of Cameron and Osborne.

    Why don't you run along and find a nice bridge to sit under?

    Console yourself with that if you like. This administration will go down as one of the most incompetent since the 1970s. It is just a pity that its partisans don't yet appreciate this, and remove the clique which runs the Tory party. I have almost come round to the view that anything, even God help us, an Ed Miliband premiership, would be better than this.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068
    edited April 2013

    dr_spyn said:

    @TSE

    Yesterday, one of my relatives thought that a caller claiming to be Ed M was a hoax or prank and she was being set up by her sister. The guy does deserve Respect, as Ali G would say. She really did chat to him.

    I warmed up to Ed a lot last year, he did a couple things that really impressed me

    1) He did a stint on TMS, and he spoke like a true cricket fan, rather than a Jonny Come Lately politician trying to be a fan

    2) In another interview he explained why he was so geeky/bookish. He said, his Dad was ill when he was at school, and he didn't want to stress his Dad out by getting bad results, so he concentrated on getting good results to cheer up his Dad.
    High Five Mr Eagles,

    this has miraculously morphed into an Ed is crap thread. I did so miss them ;-)
    I got into trouble the last time I ran an Ed is Crap.
    But you do trouble, you're a lawyer.
    I must confess, I do get a perverse pleasure from opening the hornets nest/poking a can of worms.
    Speaking as someone who's elder brother made him poke a spider's nest and a hornet's nest many years ago, I'd advise sticking to the can of worms. The former is not as much fun as it sounds.

    Unless you exercise due caution and deploy metaphorical safety clothering before poking the metaphorical hornet's nest I guess.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    carl said:

    Charles said:

    Ed Milband might be crap as Prime Minister but he also might be very good, we don't yet know. However we do know that both Dave Omnishambles Cameron and Gideon Double Dip Osborne are really crap.

    The fact that you choose to use a name that Osborne stopped using when he was a teenager leads me to believe that, regardless of their performance, you would have a negative view of Cameron and Osborne.

    Why don't you run along and find a nice bridge to sit under?
    Unlike your balanced, non-partisan offerings eh Charles.
    I'm a Conservative, but disagree with the party on plenty of topics.

    At least I try to make an argument rather than spew out silly names and unsubstantiated political claims
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    dr_spyn said:

    @TSE

    Yesterday, one of my relatives thought that a caller claiming to be Ed M was a hoax or prank and she was being set up by her sister. The guy does deserve Respect, as Ali G would say. She really did chat to him.

    I warmed up to Ed a lot last year, he did a couple things that really impressed me

    1) He did a stint on TMS, and he spoke like a true cricket fan, rather than a Jonny Come Lately politician trying to be a fan

    2) In another interview he explained why he was so geeky/bookish. He said, his Dad was ill when he was at school, and he didn't want to stress his Dad out by getting bad results, so he concentrated on getting good results to cheer up his Dad.
    High Five Mr Eagles,

    this has miraculously morphed into an Ed is crap thread. I did so miss them ;-)
    I got into trouble the last time I ran an Ed is Crap.
    But you do trouble, you're a lawyer.
    I must confess, I do get a perverse pleasure from opening the hornets nest/poking a can of worms.
    I'm not sure if that's a confession or a couple of sexual fantasies.


  • Well this isn't good

    SOPA creator’s latest bill proposes stripping peer-review from science funding

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/29/sopa-creators-latest-bill-proposes-stripping-peer-review-from-science-funding/
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:


    The fact that you choose to use a name that Osborne stopped using when he was a teenager leads me to believe that, regardless of their performance, you would have a negative view of Cameron and Osborne.

    Why don't you run along and find a nice bridge to sit under?

    Console yourself with that if you like. This administration will go down as one of the most incompetent since the 1970s. It is just a pity that its partisans don't yet appreciate this, and remove the clique which runs the Tory party. I have almost come round to the view that anything, even God help us, an Ed Miliband premiership, would be better than this.
    Tell me, what have they done which is really incompetent?

    There is plenty of bad politics - things like the pasty tax - which don't matter in the big scheme of things. On balance they have navigated a treacherous path tolerably well. They are only part of the way through clearing up the Brownian stables, but there was one hell of a mess left behind.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    edited April 2013
    There's a ComRes locals poll out

    I think the VI is (I need to verify this) Verified now

    Conservatives 31%
    Labour 24%
    UKIP 22%
    Lib Dems 12%

    http://comres.co.uk/polls/C4M_Local_Election_Poll_30_April_2013.pdf
  • dr_spyn said:

    @TSE

    Yesterday, one of my relatives thought that a caller claiming to be Ed M was a hoax or prank and she was being set up by her sister. The guy does deserve Respect, as Ali G would say. She really did chat to him.

    I warmed up to Ed a lot last year, he did a couple things that really impressed me

    1) He did a stint on TMS, and he spoke like a true cricket fan, rather than a Jonny Come Lately politician trying to be a fan

    2) In another interview he explained why he was so geeky/bookish. He said, his Dad was ill when he was at school, and he didn't want to stress his Dad out by getting bad results, so he concentrated on getting good results to cheer up his Dad.
    High Five Mr Eagles,

    this has miraculously morphed into an Ed is crap thread. I did so miss them ;-)
    I got into trouble the last time I ran an Ed is Crap.
    But you do trouble, you're a lawyer.
    I must confess, I do get a perverse pleasure from opening the hornets nest/poking a can of worms.
    I'm not sure if that's a confession or a couple of sexual fantasies.


    I have an allergy to stings. So no sexual fantasy for me.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    There's a ComRes locals poll out

    I think the VI is (I need to verify this)

    Conservatives 31%
    Labour 24%
    UKIP 22%
    Lib Dems 12%

    http://comres.co.uk/polls/C4M_Local_Election_Poll_30_April_2013.pdf

    Blimey, could we see UKIP second?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    dr_spyn said:

    @TSE

    Yesterday, one of my relatives thought that a caller claiming to be Ed M was a hoax or prank and she was being set up by her sister. The guy does deserve Respect, as Ali G would say. She really did chat to him.

    I warmed up to Ed a lot last year, he did a couple things that really impressed me

    1) He did a stint on TMS, and he spoke like a true cricket fan, rather than a Jonny Come Lately politician trying to be a fan

    2) In another interview he explained why he was so geeky/bookish. He said, his Dad was ill when he was at school, and he didn't want to stress his Dad out by getting bad results, so he concentrated on getting good results to cheer up his Dad.
    High Five Mr Eagles,

    this has miraculously morphed into an Ed is crap thread. I did so miss them ;-)
    I got into trouble the last time I ran an Ed is Crap.
    But you do trouble, you're a lawyer.
    I must confess, I do get a perverse pleasure from opening the hornets nest/poking a can of worms.
    I'm not sure if that's a confession or a couple of sexual fantasies.


    I have an allergy to stings. So no sexual fantasy for me.

    me too - wasps, one sting and I'm the elephant man.
  • METHODOLOGY NOTE

    ComRes interviewed 1,502 adults in areas of England where local election are taking place on 2nd May. Interviews were done online between 24 th and 28th
    April 2013.

    Data were weighted to be demographically representative of all GB adults. ComRes is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068
    edited April 2013
    Charles said:

    Charles said:


    The fact that you choose to use a name that Osborne stopped using when he was a teenager leads me to believe that, regardless of their performance, you would have a negative view of Cameron and Osborne.

    Why don't you run along and find a nice bridge to sit under?

    Console yourself with that if you like. This administration will go down as one of the most incompetent since the 1970s. It is just a pity that its partisans don't yet appreciate this, and remove the clique which runs the Tory party. I have almost come round to the view that anything, even God help us, an Ed Miliband premiership, would be better than this.
    Tell me, what have they done which is really incompetent?

    There is plenty of bad politics - things like the pasty tax - which don't matter in the big scheme of things. On balance they have navigated a treacherous path tolerably well. They are only part of the way through clearing up the Brownian stables, but there was one hell of a mess left behind.

    The impression of incompetence took hold last year I think. That history may judge this premiership more kindly will not console many come 2015.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013

    There's a ComRes locals poll out

    I think the VI is (I need to verify this)

    Conservatives 31%
    Labour 24%
    UKIP 22%
    Lib Dems 12%

    http://comres.co.uk/polls/C4M_Local_Election_Poll_30_April_2013.pdf

    Mark Senior calculated that the actual votes cast last time were:

    Con 44.5% LD 24.5% Lab 13% UKIP 4.5% BNP 2.5% Green 5% Others/Ind 6%

  • dr_spyn said:

    @TSE

    Yesterday, one of my relatives thought that a caller claiming to be Ed M was a hoax or prank and she was being set up by her sister. The guy does deserve Respect, as Ali G would say. She really did chat to him.

    I warmed up to Ed a lot last year, he did a couple things that really impressed me

    1) He did a stint on TMS, and he spoke like a true cricket fan, rather than a Jonny Come Lately politician trying to be a fan

    2) In another interview he explained why he was so geeky/bookish. He said, his Dad was ill when he was at school, and he didn't want to stress his Dad out by getting bad results, so he concentrated on getting good results to cheer up his Dad.
    High Five Mr Eagles,

    this has miraculously morphed into an Ed is crap thread. I did so miss them ;-)
    I got into trouble the last time I ran an Ed is Crap.
    But you do trouble, you're a lawyer.
    I must confess, I do get a perverse pleasure from opening the hornets nest/poking a can of worms.
    I'm not sure if that's a confession or a couple of sexual fantasies.


    I have an allergy to stings. So no sexual fantasy for me.

    me too - wasps, one sting and I'm the elephant man.
    I always have to carry one of those special injections.

    Is it me, or are the bees getting bigger, I saw one today, it was the size of a small hamster.
  • @Charles
    Off the top of my head:
    *“a Britain held aloft by the march of the makers”
    *Abandonment of deficit reduction
    *Control orders/TPIMs/(e)TPIMS
    *Forests
    *Lansley submitting 1800 amendments to his own Bill
    *Scrapping an aircraft carrier & Libya
    *Giveaways to special interest groups while there is allegedly no money left
    Shall I go on?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    edited April 2013

    There's a ComRes locals poll out

    I think the VI is (I need to verify this)

    Conservatives 31%
    Labour 24%
    UKIP 22%
    Lib Dems 12%

    http://comres.co.uk/polls/C4M_Local_Election_Poll_30_April_2013.pdf

    Mark Senior calculated that in 2009 the actual votes cast were

    Con 44.5% LD 24.5% Lab 13% UKIP 4.5% BNP 2.5% Green 5% Others/Ind 6%

    So the Tories had a 20% lead over the LDs in 2009 and a 19% lead this time around.

    Anything could happen on Thursday with UKIP on 22%
  • I've verified the numbers from before.

    They are correct.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068
    If Thursday is a bad day for Mr Cameron, he should have no doubt where the responsibility lies. Certainly, the rest of us will all know who to blame if it is an even worse day for the Conservatives that it need have been.

    Cameron's tried tacking to the right, and it has only emboldened the defectors, what more can he do? So many, regardless of whether it is a sensible idea or not, are desperately hoping their own party does badly on Thursday (worse than it would have likely been anyway), so they can have a chance to change direction. The quesiton is, I suppose, how many of those are within the parliamentary partty, and how many have any balls? I'd say not many, given how many ostensibly tory bloggers and commentators clearly want to be UKIP but don't just officially make the change already.
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    Charles said:

    carl said:

    Charles said:

    Ed Milband might be crap as Prime Minister but he also might be very good, we don't yet know. However we do know that both Dave Omnishambles Cameron and Gideon Double Dip Osborne are really crap.

    The fact that you choose to use a name that Osborne stopped using when he was a teenager leads me to believe that, regardless of their performance, you would have a negative view of Cameron and Osborne.

    Why don't you run along and find a nice bridge to sit under?
    Unlike your balanced, non-partisan offerings eh Charles.
    I'm a Conservative, but disagree with the party on plenty of topics.

    At least I try to make an argument rather than spew out silly names and unsubstantiated political claims
    You were unpleasant to another poster, calling them a troll, for being partisan.

    You are relentlessly partisan.

    That's all I'm saying.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    Looks like the others + green + bnp have been squeezed into oblivion.
  • carlcarl Posts: 750

    @Charles
    Off the top of my head:
    *“a Britain held aloft by the march of the makers”
    *Abandonment of deficit reduction
    *Control orders/TPIMs/(e)TPIMS
    *Forests
    *Lansley submitting 1800 amendments to his own Bill
    *Scrapping an aircraft carrier & Libya
    *Giveaways to special interest groups while there is allegedly no money left
    Shall I go on?

    God I'd almost forgot about the forests!

    Cameron and the Tories started off looking like they hadn't got a clue how to govern, and went downhill from there really, didn't they.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    dr_spyn said:

    @TSE

    Yesterday, one of my relatives thought that a caller claiming to be Ed M was a hoax or prank and she was being set up by her sister. The guy does deserve Respect, as Ali G would say. She really did chat to him.

    I warmed up to Ed a lot last year, he did a couple things that really impressed me

    1) He did a stint on TMS, and he spoke like a true cricket fan, rather than a Jonny Come Lately politician trying to be a fan

    2) In another interview he explained why he was so geeky/bookish. He said, his Dad was ill when he was at school, and he didn't want to stress his Dad out by getting bad results, so he concentrated on getting good results to cheer up his Dad.
    High Five Mr Eagles,

    this has miraculously morphed into an Ed is crap thread. I did so miss them ;-)
    I got into trouble the last time I ran an Ed is Crap.
    But you do trouble, you're a lawyer.
    I must confess, I do get a perverse pleasure from opening the hornets nest/poking a can of worms.
    I'm not sure if that's a confession or a couple of sexual fantasies.


    I have an allergy to stings. So no sexual fantasy for me.

    me too - wasps, one sting and I'm the elephant man.
    I always have to carry one of those special injections.

    Is it me, or are the bees getting bigger, I saw one today, it was the size of a small hamster.
    I had one of those trapped in my kitchen the other day, big buggers and however much you try to help them out the door they go off in the opposite direction and buzz mindlessly. A bit like UKIP canvassers.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    kle4 said:

    If Thursday is a bad day for Mr Cameron, he should have no doubt where the responsibility lies. Certainly, the rest of us will all know who to blame if it is an even worse day for the Conservatives that it need have been.

    Cameron's tried tacking to the right, and it has only emboldened the defectors, what more can he do? So many, regardless of whether it is a sensible idea or not, are desperately hoping their own party does badly on Thursday (worse than it would have likely been anyway), so they can have a chance to change direction. The quesiton is, I suppose, how many of those are within the parliamentary partty, and how many have any balls? I'd say not many, given how many ostensibly tory bloggers and commentators clearly want to be UKIP but don't just officially make the change already.

    How about attempting to legislate for the EU referendum? It would force Lib/Lab to vote against it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    edited April 2013
    sorry, double post!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068
    RobD said:

    Looks like the others + green + bnp have been squeezed into oblivion.

    Poor old Greens - will they ever break through across the country? They actually do sometimes appear to talk a completely different game than the other parties, something they claim people want, but apparently they do not, as people like the familiar. And the Greens seem so crazy sometimes.

  • dr_spyn said:

    @TSE

    Yesterday, one of my relatives thought that a caller claiming to be Ed M was a hoax or prank and she was being set up by her sister. The guy does deserve Respect, as Ali G would say. She really did chat to him.

    I warmed up to Ed a lot last year, he did a couple things that really impressed me

    1) He did a stint on TMS, and he spoke like a true cricket fan, rather than a Jonny Come Lately politician trying to be a fan

    2) In another interview he explained why he was so geeky/bookish. He said, his Dad was ill when he was at school, and he didn't want to stress his Dad out by getting bad results, so he concentrated on getting good results to cheer up his Dad.
    High Five Mr Eagles,

    this has miraculously morphed into an Ed is crap thread. I did so miss them ;-)
    I got into trouble the last time I ran an Ed is Crap.
    But you do trouble, you're a lawyer.
    I must confess, I do get a perverse pleasure from opening the hornets nest/poking a can of worms.
    I'm not sure if that's a confession or a couple of sexual fantasies.


    I have an allergy to stings. So no sexual fantasy for me.

    me too - wasps, one sting and I'm the elephant man.
    I always have to carry one of those special injections.

    Is it me, or are the bees getting bigger, I saw one today, it was the size of a small hamster.
    I had one of those trapped in my kitchen the other day, big buggers and however much you try to help them out the door they go off in the opposite direction and buzz mindlessly. A bit like UKIP canvassers.
    Surely the yellow in the bees means they are more like the Lib Dems
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    If Thursday is a bad day for Mr Cameron, he should have no doubt where the responsibility lies. Certainly, the rest of us will all know who to blame if it is an even worse day for the Conservatives that it need have been.

    Cameron's tried tacking to the right, and it has only emboldened the defectors, what more can he do? So many, regardless of whether it is a sensible idea or not, are desperately hoping their own party does badly on Thursday (worse than it would have likely been anyway), so they can have a chance to change direction. The quesiton is, I suppose, how many of those are within the parliamentary partty, and how many have any balls? I'd say not many, given how many ostensibly tory bloggers and commentators clearly want to be UKIP but don't just officially make the change already.

    How about attempting to legislate for the EU referendum? It would force Lib/Lab to vote against it.
    His opponents would just say he's doing it because he's been forced to and doesn't really believe in it. He gets no credit for trying to move in the direction they want, and hatred for doing the opposite, so he's stuck.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013
    Greens are at 4% in the ConRes poll. vs 5% last time. So more or less stable.

    Since Labour went into opposition, it was obvious it would have been harder for the Greens to make more inroads in their support in Oxford, Norwich and some London boroughs. However, they had the opportunity of gaining some disillused LibDem voters.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    The ComRes poll suggests UKIP could beat Labour and how would Milibland the Younger explain 3rd place in the popular vote?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @oflynnexpress: RT @ArnieEtc: ComRes local election poll: Con 31%, Lab 24%, Ukip 22%, LDs 12%. Taxi for Miliband.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    kle4 said:

    If Thursday is a bad day for Mr Cameron, he should have no doubt where the responsibility lies. Certainly, the rest of us will all know who to blame if it is an even worse day for the Conservatives that it need have been.

    Cameron's tried tacking to the right, and it has only emboldened the defectors, what more can he do? So many, regardless of whether it is a sensible idea or not, are desperately hoping their own party does badly on Thursday (worse than it would have likely been anyway), so they can have a chance to change direction. The quesiton is, I suppose, how many of those are within the parliamentary partty, and how many have any balls? I'd say not many, given how many ostensibly tory bloggers and commentators clearly want to be UKIP but don't just officially make the change already.

    He didn't actually tack to the right though - just made some vague noises.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    Greens are at 4% in the ConRes poll. vs 5% last time. So more or less stable.

    Ah yes, I'm a tit - thought LDs were on 22, not 12! That makes Con+Lab+LD+UKIP = 89%

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068
    MrJones said:

    kle4 said:

    If Thursday is a bad day for Mr Cameron, he should have no doubt where the responsibility lies. Certainly, the rest of us will all know who to blame if it is an even worse day for the Conservatives that it need have been.

    Cameron's tried tacking to the right, and it has only emboldened the defectors, what more can he do? So many, regardless of whether it is a sensible idea or not, are desperately hoping their own party does badly on Thursday (worse than it would have likely been anyway), so they can have a chance to change direction. The quesiton is, I suppose, how many of those are within the parliamentary partty, and how many have any balls? I'd say not many, given how many ostensibly tory bloggers and commentators clearly want to be UKIP but don't just officially make the change already.

    He didn't actually tack to the right though - just made some vague noises.
    I shall correct - he tried 'appearing' to tack to the right.

    Since it didn't work, why should he bother actually doing so? They won't thank him for it.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    kle4 said:

    MrJones said:

    kle4 said:

    If Thursday is a bad day for Mr Cameron, he should have no doubt where the responsibility lies. Certainly, the rest of us will all know who to blame if it is an even worse day for the Conservatives that it need have been.

    Cameron's tried tacking to the right, and it has only emboldened the defectors, what more can he do? So many, regardless of whether it is a sensible idea or not, are desperately hoping their own party does badly on Thursday (worse than it would have likely been anyway), so they can have a chance to change direction. The quesiton is, I suppose, how many of those are within the parliamentary partty, and how many have any balls? I'd say not many, given how many ostensibly tory bloggers and commentators clearly want to be UKIP but don't just officially make the change already.

    He didn't actually tack to the right though - just made some vague noises.
    I shall correct - he tried 'appearing' to tack to the right.

    Since it didn't work, why should he bother actually doing so? They won't thank him for it.

    Maybe it didn't work because he didn't actually do it? :p
  • MrJones said:


    the problem is the political class opening the borders against the wishes of the public

    Before the enactment of the British Nationality Act 1948, a British subject could enter this country and work freely, without let or hindrance. In 1947, approximately a third of the world's population were British subjects. Isn't the reality that over the last seventy-five years, the politicians of both parties have actually closed the borders, and instituted a highly restrictive system of immigration control. Both parties intend to close the border yet further. I have only one question: why wasn't I consulted about this decision to close the border?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Lord McAlpine commented when discussing the Toffs in Thatcher's shadow cabinet, 'of course Heseltine only became one later'
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    kle4 said:

    MrJones said:

    kle4 said:

    If Thursday is a bad day for Mr Cameron, he should have no doubt where the responsibility lies. Certainly, the rest of us will all know who to blame if it is an even worse day for the Conservatives that it need have been.

    Cameron's tried tacking to the right, and it has only emboldened the defectors, what more can he do? So many, regardless of whether it is a sensible idea or not, are desperately hoping their own party does badly on Thursday (worse than it would have likely been anyway), so they can have a chance to change direction. The quesiton is, I suppose, how many of those are within the parliamentary partty, and how many have any balls? I'd say not many, given how many ostensibly tory bloggers and commentators clearly want to be UKIP but don't just officially make the change already.

    He didn't actually tack to the right though - just made some vague noises.
    I shall correct - he tried 'appearing' to tack to the right.

    Since it didn't work, why should he bother actually doing so? They won't thank him for it.

    That makes no sense.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    edited April 2013

    MrJones said:


    the problem is the political class opening the borders against the wishes of the public

    Before the enactment of the British Nationality Act 1948, a British subject could enter this country and work freely, without let or hindrance. In 1947, approximately a third of the world's population were British subjects. Isn't the reality that over the last seventy-five years, the politicians of both parties have actually closed the borders, and instituted a highly restrictive system of immigration control. Both parties intend to close the border yet further. I have only one question: why wasn't I consulted about this decision to close the border?

    Over the last 75 years the number of British subjects on Earth has significantly decreased
  • According to the Times, when these elections were held in 2005, Labour polled 28%, the day they got a majority of 60plus in Westminster.

    So if that ComRes is anyway accurate, Labour are polling way down on 2005.

    Should be worrying for Labour.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068
    edited April 2013

    The ComRes poll suggests UKIP could beat Labour and how would Milibland the Younger explain 3rd place in the popular vote?

    Blah blah, Tory heartlands, blah blah, made important gains across country, blah blah, UKIP rise shows chaos in Conservatives, country has spoken, blah blah, my name's not David blah blah Labour the real winner here, just look at our easy win in our stronghold at South Shields, if that doesn't show the incorrect path of government what does? blah blah, the government borrows too much, and we should borrow more, what's that, no, I meant, grr, David Cameron went to Eton you know, blah blah for the last time my name is not David!

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    edited April 2013
    tim said:

    Killer stat for the Tories

    2009

    Con 44.5% Lab 13%

    2015 Poll - Women voters

    Con 28% Lab 29%

    Shouldn't you be comparing like with like in situations like these? I know it is bad for the Tories either way, but still!
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    MrJones said:


    the problem is the political class opening the borders against the wishes of the public

    Before the enactment of the British Nationality Act 1948, a British subject could enter this country and work freely, without let or hindrance. In 1947, approximately a third of the world's population were British subjects. Isn't the reality that over the last seventy-five years, the politicians of both parties have actually closed the borders, and instituted a highly restrictive system of immigration control. Both parties intend to close the border yet further. I have only one question: why wasn't I consulted about this decision to close the border?

    No. It *was* the case from 1945-ish until around 2000-ish when the process was reversed.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068
    MrJones said:

    kle4 said:

    MrJones said:

    kle4 said:

    If Thursday is a bad day for Mr Cameron, he should have no doubt where the responsibility lies. Certainly, the rest of us will all know who to blame if it is an even worse day for the Conservatives that it need have been.

    Cameron's tried tacking to the right, and it has only emboldened the defectors, what more can he do? So many, regardless of whether it is a sensible idea or not, are desperately hoping their own party does badly on Thursday (worse than it would have likely been anyway), so they can have a chance to change direction. The quesiton is, I suppose, how many of those are within the parliamentary partty, and how many have any balls? I'd say not many, given how many ostensibly tory bloggers and commentators clearly want to be UKIP but don't just officially make the change already.

    He didn't actually tack to the right though - just made some vague noises.
    I shall correct - he tried 'appearing' to tack to the right.

    Since it didn't work, why should he bother actually doing so? They won't thank him for it.

    That makes no sense.
    I mean, he tested the waters to see if moving to the right would help his numbers, and it didn't, so why would he trust that actually doing it would help his numbers. Normally just talking about doing something works, then you can decide whether or not to follow through.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    tim said:

    @RobD.

    Those are the best figures we have for 2009/2013

    I meant to type 2013 in the original post of course

    Is there no gender breakdown in exit polling from 2009?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    Is it just me but aren't local mid term elections that don't involve where you live crushingly dull? Heresy maybe but there you go, that's my view.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    MrJones said:

    kle4 said:

    If Thursday is a bad day for Mr Cameron, he should have no doubt where the responsibility lies. Certainly, the rest of us will all know who to blame if it is an even worse day for the Conservatives that it need have been.

    Cameron's tried tacking to the right, and it has only emboldened the defectors, what more can he do? So many, regardless of whether it is a sensible idea or not, are desperately hoping their own party does badly on Thursday (worse than it would have likely been anyway), so they can have a chance to change direction. The quesiton is, I suppose, how many of those are within the parliamentary partty, and how many have any balls? I'd say not many, given how many ostensibly tory bloggers and commentators clearly want to be UKIP but don't just officially make the change already.

    He didn't actually tack to the right though - just made some vague noises.
    I shall correct - he tried 'appearing' to tack to the right.

    Since it didn't work, why should he bother actually doing so? They won't thank him for it.

    Maybe it didn't work because he didn't actually do it? :p
    Possibly, but normally just talking about doing things works a little, and then you can decide if to do it. What he learned was no-one believed him, and if they didn't believe him, they almost certainly wouldn't give him credit for actually doing it anyway, they'd complain he didn't do it sooner.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Com Res poll why is Labour doing so badly @Tim? They're the wrong numbers, and they have gone wrong.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Should we not have the daily YouJokeGuv by now?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    I know the media narrative is still supposed to be dominated by a man crying at a funeral according to Newsense™, but amazingly the prevailing theme this week is Ed Miliband is crap

    Times leader
    Mr Miliband’s problems are threefold, and all of them were on display on Monday during an interview on BBC Radio 4. First, he is not trusted on the key business of reducing Britain’s deficit and nor does he deserve to be. Labour proposes a cut in VAT, and when he was pressed to admit that this would lead to an increase in borrowing in the short term, he refused to acknowledge it. Mr Miliband knows that there is a tension between what he would like to do and what the electorate will tolerate. This is not a tension he seems even close to resolving.

    He has a similar reticence over welfare. Mr Miliband appears to accept that Britain’s creaking benefits system must be reformed, but also seems to have no appetite for discussing that reform, let alone enacting it. His best answer seems to be that growth will come, rendering welfare reform less essential.

    Finally, cruel as it may be to acknowledge, Mr Miliband has a personality problem. He can be engaging in person and, addressing crowds from the makeshift soapbox platform he has dragged around during this local election campaign, he can be something close to inspirational. But in the mass media age, modern politics rewards a different sort of charisma.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    welshowl said:

    Is it just me but aren't local mid term elections that don't involve where you live crushingly dull? Heresy maybe but there you go, that's my view.

    Because its actual people actually voting!! Not just opinion polls. What could be more exciting?! :D

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714

    According to the Times, when these elections were held in 2005, Labour polled 28%, the day they got a majority of 60plus in Westminster.

    So if that ComRes is anyway accurate, Labour are polling way down on 2005.

    Should be worrying for Labour.

    T&S website have Labour at 25% in 2005 locals (Con 39.8 LD 27.6)

    I don't know if they are exactly the same councils voting tomorrow. There's no Bedfordshire now. I don't know if something else changed. Northumberland and Durham (which didn't vote in 2009) voted in 2005.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814

    Football, bloody hell.

    Almost, almost for Madrid! They looked dead and buried up to the 80 minute mark
    Which date are you seeing The Mode?
    I'm seeing them on the 29th May at the O2, how about you?
    Well I am seeing them in June in Paris, and in Manchester in November.

    However, I'm working in London on the 29th and 30th, so I need something to do on the evening of the 29th.
    Ah, I see. Well, doors open at 6.30 at the O2 not sure if that gives you enough time to get to Docklands.
  • According to the Times, when these elections were held in 2005, Labour polled 28%, the day they got a majority of 60plus in Westminster.

    So if that ComRes is anyway accurate, Labour are polling way down on 2005.

    Should be worrying for Labour.

    T&S website have Labour at 25% in 2005 locals (Con 39.8 LD 27.6)

    I don't know if they are exactly the same councils voting tomorrow. There's no Bedfordshire now. I don't know if something else changed. Northumberland and Durham (which didn't vote in 2009) voted in 2005.
    I think there's various right numbers, the actual results, and the equivalent seats being fought this time around.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    RobD said:

    welshowl said:

    Is it just me but aren't local mid term elections that don't involve where you live crushingly dull? Heresy maybe but there you go, that's my view.

    Because its actual people actually voting!! Not just opinion polls. What could be more exciting?! :D

    Yeah I know I should be more animated but ... I really deep down don't give two hoots who is county councillor for N W Buckinghamshire. Thing is there's a daft amount of false extrapolation put on such results. Essentially means diddly squat for 2015.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,893
    @Avery

    "The pound posted its biggest monthly gain versus the dollar since October 2011....."

    Not against the Euro unfortunately. It's gone down in the last month and significantly down on eighteen months ago. Could our near perfect chancellor's personal propagandist be choosing his numbers selectively?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    RobD said:

    MrJones said:


    the problem is the political class opening the borders against the wishes of the public

    Before the enactment of the British Nationality Act 1948, a British subject could enter this country and work freely, without let or hindrance. In 1947, approximately a third of the world's population were British subjects. Isn't the reality that over the last seventy-five years, the politicians of both parties have actually closed the borders, and instituted a highly restrictive system of immigration control. Both parties intend to close the border yet further. I have only one question: why wasn't I consulted about this decision to close the border?

    Over the last 75 years the number of British subjects on Earth has significantly decreased
    If I were King-Emperor I would reconstitute the Empire/Commonwealth as a fully democratic federation, with a central Imperial Senate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068
    welshowl said:

    RobD said:

    welshowl said:

    Is it just me but aren't local mid term elections that don't involve where you live crushingly dull? Heresy maybe but there you go, that's my view.

    Because its actual people actually voting!! Not just opinion polls. What could be more exciting?! :D

    Yeah I know I should be more animated but ... I really deep down don't give two hoots who is county councillor for N W Buckinghamshire. Thing is there's a daft amount of false extrapolation put on such results. Essentially means diddly squat for 2015.
    Most normal people aren't animated even where the elections are in their area, so you're probably still showing more civic awareness and animation than most.

  • Football, bloody hell.

    Almost, almost for Madrid! They looked dead and buried up to the 80 minute mark
    Which date are you seeing The Mode?
    I'm seeing them on the 29th May at the O2, how about you?
    Well I am seeing them in June in Paris, and in Manchester in November.

    However, I'm working in London on the 29th and 30th, so I need something to do on the evening of the 29th.
    Ah, I see. Well, doors open at 6.30 at the O2 not sure if that gives you enough time to get to Docklands.
    Getting there for 6.30 won't be a problem, finding a ticket will be the biggest challenge.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,893
    @Easterross
    "Should we not have the daily YouJokeGuv by now? "

    They are only reported in the evening if the results are good for the Tories. Weird but true.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    kle4 said:

    welshowl said:

    RobD said:

    welshowl said:

    Is it just me but aren't local mid term elections that don't involve where you live crushingly dull? Heresy maybe but there you go, that's my view.

    Because its actual people actually voting!! Not just opinion polls. What could be more exciting?! :D

    Yeah I know I should be more animated but ... I really deep down don't give two hoots who is county councillor for N W Buckinghamshire. Thing is there's a daft amount of false extrapolation put on such results. Essentially means diddly squat for 2015.
    Most normal people aren't animated even where the elections are in their area, so you're probably still showing more civic awareness and animation than most.

    Thank you.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Going by Mark's figures

    if the poll is accurate it would be

    Con -13.5
    Lab +11
    LD -12.5
    UKIP +17.5
    Green -1
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    welshowl said:


    Yeah I know I should be more animated but ... I really deep down don't give two hoots who is county councillor for N W Buckinghamshire. Thing is there's a daft amount of false extrapolation put on such results. Essentially means diddly squat for 2015.

    I suppose that is true, but still it gives us something to talk about.

    Anyway, this came up in an earlier, but from 3:58 is particularly relevant to what you just said :D

    http://youtu.be/H8--ReA778Q?t=3m58s
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    edited April 2013
    kle4 said:

    Most normal people aren't animated even where the elections are in their area, so you're probably still showing more civic awareness and animation than most.

    I resent the implication that I am somehow not normal. ;)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814

    Football, bloody hell.

    Almost, almost for Madrid! They looked dead and buried up to the 80 minute mark
    Which date are you seeing The Mode?
    I'm seeing them on the 29th May at the O2, how about you?
    Well I am seeing them in June in Paris, and in Manchester in November.

    However, I'm working in London on the 29th and 30th, so I need something to do on the evening of the 29th.
    Ah, I see. Well, doors open at 6.30 at the O2 not sure if that gives you enough time to get to Docklands.
    Getting there for 6.30 won't be a problem, finding a ticket will be the biggest challenge.
    Aye, that's the rub. Which reminds me, I need to print mine out as I went for the cheapo non-mail delivery option!
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Perhaps it is time to re-educate the electorate?

    With all the scare stuff about baby eating UKIPers with Strangelove's Syndrome of The Right Arm - does it really make much difference if postal votes were on the way before the allegations that Tories started leaking stories hit the media?

    Wonderful own goal on a Lib Dem leaflet - sign up for a workable residential parking scheme today by following given link - but the e-petition had closed this morning. Oh dear, well never mind, what a shame.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    Roger said:

    @Avery

    "The pound posted its biggest monthly gain versus the dollar since October 2011....."

    Not against the Euro unfortunately. It's gone down in the last month and significantly down on eighteen months ago. Could our near perfect chancellor's personal propagandist be choosing his numbers selectively?

    As someone who buys more in Dollars than I sell in Euros: up against the Dollar and stable or better down against the Euro suits me fine thanks.
  • Football, bloody hell.

    Almost, almost for Madrid! They looked dead and buried up to the 80 minute mark
    Which date are you seeing The Mode?
    I'm seeing them on the 29th May at the O2, how about you?
    Well I am seeing them in June in Paris, and in Manchester in November.

    However, I'm working in London on the 29th and 30th, so I need something to do on the evening of the 29th.
    Ah, I see. Well, doors open at 6.30 at the O2 not sure if that gives you enough time to get to Docklands.
    Getting there for 6.30 won't be a problem, finding a ticket will be the biggest challenge.
    Aye, that's the rub. Which reminds me, I need to print mine out as I went for the cheapo non-mail delivery option!
    I've found a decent ticket on a resale website for £80
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    METHODOLOGY NOTE

    ComRes interviewed 1,502 adults in areas of England where local election are taking place on 2nd May. Interviews were done online between 24 th and 28th
    April 2013.

    Data were weighted to be demographically representative of all GB adults. ComRes is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.

    Doesn't that introduce an anomaly into the polling though.

    Shouldn't they weight towards the population in areas of England where the local elections are taking place. I'd assume this would be older / less ethnically mixed that all GB adults?
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    'Blow for No camp following Welsh FM intervention'

    The anti-independence campaign has been dealt a significant blow following warnings from Carwyn Jones over the damage failing to devolve more powers is doing to the No campaign in Scotland.

    Welsh First Minister Carwyn Jones has sounded the alarm over Westminster’s foot-dragging on devolving more powers to Wales, warning that “a failure to implement tax and borrowing powers for Wales could make a yes vote in the Scottish independence referendum more likely.”

    With the BBC reporting that legislation to devolve additional powers to Wales is likely to be absent from the Queen’s speech, the Welsh First Minister’s intervention has simply highlighted Westminster’s continued intransigence when it comes to giving up real power.


    http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2013/apr/blow-no-camp-following-welsh-fm-intervention
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Most normal people aren't animated even where the elections are in their area, so you're probably still showing more civic awareness and animation than most.

    I resent the implication that I am somehow not normal. ;)
    Come now, anyone who posts on a political blog is clearly a maladjusted wonk! Except me of course. Right? Damn it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:


    The fact that you choose to use a name that Osborne stopped using when he was a teenager leads me to believe that, regardless of their performance, you would have a negative view of Cameron and Osborne.

    Why don't you run along and find a nice bridge to sit under?

    Console yourself with that if you like. This administration will go down as one of the most incompetent since the 1970s. It is just a pity that its partisans don't yet appreciate this, and remove the clique which runs the Tory party. I have almost come round to the view that anything, even God help us, an Ed Miliband premiership, would be better than this.
    Tell me, what have they done which is really incompetent?

    There is plenty of bad politics - things like the pasty tax - which don't matter in the big scheme of things. On balance they have navigated a treacherous path tolerably well. They are only part of the way through clearing up the Brownian stables, but there was one hell of a mess left behind.

    The impression of incompetence took hold last year I think. That history may judge this premiership more kindly will not console many come 2015.
    I'd agree with that: there is a perception of incompetence. Carl was speaking about actualities though, and I responded in kind.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edited April 2013

    Greens are at 4% in the ConRes poll. vs 5% last time. So more or less stable.

    And this cycle of local elections is probably our weakest in terms of seats up for grabs. Though I still expect net gains and I expect the Green party to still have more Cllrs than UKIP afterwards too.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Miliband quoted on the front page of The Times. He is "concerned about the “horror stories” of where public money ends up.

    “In my experience you can’t get more allocations unless you do well with the money you are given,” he said. “And the horror stories of where public money, often international money, is going and how it’s being spent is the worst possible advertisement.”

    Has Ed suddenly woken up to the horrors of Labours' profligate spending?

    No, it's the popular brother talking about African aid
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 1m
    If the ComRes poll is right then Ukip could win far more votes overall than the LDs but come away with far fewer seats.

    Make what you like of OGH's comment not as good as his Tories going purple tweet 7 min earlier.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,705
    If correct, wonder what ComRes poll would mean for councillors?

    On the face of it Con would hardly lose any to LD.

    But how many would Lab / UKIP gain from Con / LD?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068
    edited April 2013
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:


    The fact that you choose to use a name that Osborne stopped using when he was a teenager leads me to believe that, regardless of their performance, you would have a negative view of Cameron and Osborne.

    Why don't you run along and find a nice bridge to sit under?

    Console yourself with that if you like. This administration will go down as one of the most incompetent since the 1970s. It is just a pity that its partisans don't yet appreciate this, and remove the clique which runs the Tory party. I have almost come round to the view that anything, even God help us, an Ed Miliband premiership, would be better than this.
    Tell me, what have they done which is really incompetent?

    There is plenty of bad politics - things like the pasty tax - which don't matter in the big scheme of things. On balance they have navigated a treacherous path tolerably well. They are only part of the way through clearing up the Brownian stables, but there was one hell of a mess left behind.

    The impression of incompetence took hold last year I think. That history may judge this premiership more kindly will not console many come 2015.
    I'd agree with that: there is a perception of incompetence. Carl was speaking about actualities though, and I responded in kind.
    That's fair enough, although perceived or actual, the outcome remains the same for your lot unfortunately. I'm not sure there's time to stage enough of a recovery to reverse that perception - it would likely be interpreted as happening 'in spite of' rather than 'because of' their efforts.

    A shame, as although I've turned against Cameron and co, I'd like to be optimistic about their efforts.

  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "And this cycle of local elections is probably our weakest in terms of seats up for grabs. Though I still expect net gains"

    But what about the Greens?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Most normal people aren't animated even where the elections are in their area, so you're probably still showing more civic awareness and animation than most.

    I resent the implication that I am somehow not normal. ;)
    Come now, anyone who posts on a political blog is clearly a maladjusted wonk! Except me of course. Right? Damn it.
    It's a shame I can't agree and like a post at the same time!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    edited April 2013

    Football, bloody hell.

    Almost, almost for Madrid! They looked dead and buried up to the 80 minute mark
    Which date are you seeing The Mode?
    I'm seeing them on the 29th May at the O2, how about you?
    Well I am seeing them in June in Paris, and in Manchester in November.

    However, I'm working in London on the 29th and 30th, so I need something to do on the evening of the 29th.
    Ah, I see. Well, doors open at 6.30 at the O2 not sure if that gives you enough time to get to Docklands.
    Getting there for 6.30 won't be a problem, finding a ticket will be the biggest challenge.
    Aye, that's the rub. Which reminds me, I need to print mine out as I went for the cheapo non-mail delivery option!
    I've found a decent ticket on a resale website for £80
    That's not bad, I would have thought they would be asking for hundreds of pounds! I got mine for 49 GBP. Looks like it's the upper tier though.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    @James

    A joke from a Welsh Labour MP was something like "sooner or later in trying to outflank Plaid, Carwyn Jones will propose a referendum on Welsh Independence"

    In a way Welsh Labour have been been luckier in not having highweight politicians in Wesminster in recent times. It made the relationship between Assembly party and Westminster party easier (everybody "hate" Peter Hain anyway)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    @Charles
    Off the top of my head:
    *“a Britain held aloft by the march of the makers”
    *Abandonment of deficit reduction
    *Control orders/TPIMs/(e)TPIMS
    *Forests
    *Lansley submitting 1800 amendments to his own Bill
    *Scrapping an aircraft carrier & Libya
    *Giveaways to special interest groups while there is allegedly no money left
    Shall I go on?

    *“a Britain held aloft by the march of the makers” Abullsh1t phrase signifying nothing. Osborne isn't great at speeches, I'll give you that

    *Abandonment of deficit reduction Not abandoned, but slower in the face of a terrible global economy. Flattish GDP with the deficit coming down a third is a pretty solid achievement

    *Control orders/TPIMs/(e)TPIMS I don't like the backsliding on civil liberties, but didn't think this is a competence issue

    *Forests Silly error by a poor minister. Not the most important issue though.

    *Lansley submitting 1800 amendments to his own Bill Most of which were changing names and tidying up. The LibDems also made plenty of changes - don't forget the Tories don't have a majority in either house. What was incompetent, arguably, was Lansley's desire to do it via legislation when the changes he wanted didn't really need a big Bill with a target painted on it

    *Scrapping an aircraft carrier & Libya Aircraft carriers - best of a bad job. They were left a bugger's muddle by Labour. Libya, I think they did the right thing in a difficult situation; let's see how it plays out in the long run. Even if you disagree with the objective, it was well executed.

    *Giveaways to special interest groups while there is allegedly no money left Politically weak as it undermines the core message. In the scheme of things doesn't matter one jot.

    Shall I go on? Please do: you haven't scored yet.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    RobD said:

    MrJones said:


    the problem is the political class opening the borders against the wishes of the public

    Before the enactment of the British Nationality Act 1948, a British subject could enter this country and work freely, without let or hindrance. In 1947, approximately a third of the world's population were British subjects. Isn't the reality that over the last seventy-five years, the politicians of both parties have actually closed the borders, and instituted a highly restrictive system of immigration control. Both parties intend to close the border yet further. I have only one question: why wasn't I consulted about this decision to close the border?

    Over the last 75 years the number of British subjects on Earth has significantly decreased
    If I were King-Emperor I would reconstitute the Empire/Commonwealth as a fully democratic federation, with a central Imperial Senate.
    If only you'd persuaded the powers that were in 1763 at the end of the Seven Years War. Then it might've worked. The USA would've remained part of the Crown and WW 1 and 2 wouldn't have happened much later as nobody would've taken us on..... Discuss
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "In a way Welsh Labour have been been luckier in not having highweight politicians in Wesminster in recent times"

    To be fair they've also been a bit luckier with their representatives in Cardiff. I mean obviously there are some dreadful ones, but if Scottish Labour had someone of the calibre of Carwyn Jones it would be a different proposition.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    welshowl said:



    If only you'd persuaded the powers that were in 1763 at the end of the Seven Years War. Then it might've worked. The USA would've remained part of the Crown and WW 1 and 2 wouldn't have happened much later as nobody would've taken us on..... Discuss

    Well the Empire wouldn't have been so Eastward-facing if that had happened.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,068
    welshowl said:

    RobD said:

    MrJones said:


    the problem is the political class opening the borders against the wishes of the public

    Before the enactment of the British Nationality Act 1948, a British subject could enter this country and work freely, without let or hindrance. In 1947, approximately a third of the world's population were British subjects. Isn't the reality that over the last seventy-five years, the politicians of both parties have actually closed the borders, and instituted a highly restrictive system of immigration control. Both parties intend to close the border yet further. I have only one question: why wasn't I consulted about this decision to close the border?

    Over the last 75 years the number of British subjects on Earth has significantly decreased
    If I were King-Emperor I would reconstitute the Empire/Commonwealth as a fully democratic federation, with a central Imperial Senate.
    If only you'd persuaded the powers that were in 1763 at the end of the Seven Years War. Then it might've worked. The USA would've remained part of the Crown and WW 1 and 2 wouldn't have happened much later as nobody would've taken us on..... Discuss
    Any alternate history fiction based on that premise? Sounds interesting. I think there was an episode of Sliders with a similar background.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    The ComRes poll suggests UKIP could beat Labour and how would Milibland the Younger explain 3rd place in the popular vote?

    Welcome back - haven't see you here for a long time
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    The Con to Lab swing is probably in line with expectations.
    The Con-LD swing is almost nothing, possibly meaning the results would depend on local circumstances.

    The interesting feature is the very high UKIP score which will make Thursday/Friday very interesting as it can potentially produce some stunning results in some places.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    'Blow for No camp following Welsh FM intervention'

    The anti-independence campaign has been dealt a significant blow following warnings from Carwyn Jones over the damage failing to devolve more powers is doing to the No campaign in Scotland.

    Welsh First Minister Carwyn Jones has sounded the alarm over Westminster’s foot-dragging on devolving more powers to Wales, warning that “a failure to implement tax and borrowing powers for Wales could make a yes vote in the Scottish independence referendum more likely.”

    With the BBC reporting that legislation to devolve additional powers to Wales is likely to be absent from the Queen’s speech, the Welsh First Minister’s intervention has simply highlighted Westminster’s continued intransigence when it comes to giving up real power.


    http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2013/apr/blow-no-camp-following-welsh-fm-intervention

    Carwyn just wants more power and money and is linking to the Scots vote to try and get leverage. In reality I think there's precious little link. Wales ain't Scotland.

    Still if the Welsh Govt can borrow as a result of new powers to build a relief road round the bloody M4 in Newport 20 years too late why should I moan?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    The interesting feature is the very high UKIP score which will make Thursday/Friday very interesting as it can potentially produce some stunning results in some places.

    We could see quite a lot of paper candidates elected. And loads of by-elections over the next few years as they realise what they've let themselves in for.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    RobD said:

    welshowl said:



    If only you'd persuaded the powers that were in 1763 at the end of the Seven Years War. Then it might've worked. The USA would've remained part of the Crown and WW 1 and 2 wouldn't have happened much later as nobody would've taken us on..... Discuss

    Well the Empire wouldn't have been so Eastward-facing if that had happened.
    If you mean by that we wouldn't have gained land in the East, I don't think that's true. The EIC was off making its wars in India with its own army without much contact from Westminster.
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:


    The fact that you choose to use a name that Osborne stopped using when he was a teenager leads me to believe that, regardless of their performance, you would have a negative view of Cameron and Osborne.

    Why don't you run along and find a nice bridge to sit under?

    Console yourself with that if you like. This administration will go down as one of the most incompetent since the 1970s. It is just a pity that its partisans don't yet appreciate this, and remove the clique which runs the Tory party. I have almost come round to the view that anything, even God help us, an Ed Miliband premiership, would be better than this.
    Tell me, what have they done which is really incompetent?

    There is plenty of bad politics - things like the pasty tax - which don't matter in the big scheme of things. On balance they have navigated a treacherous path tolerably well. They are only part of the way through clearing up the Brownian stables, but there was one hell of a mess left behind.

    The impression of incompetence took hold last year I think. That history may judge this premiership more kindly will not console many come 2015.
    I'd agree with that: there is a perception of incompetence. Carl was speaking about actualities though, and I responded in kind.
    That's fair enough, although perceived or actual, the outcome remains the same for your lot unfortunately. I'm not sure there's time to stage enough of a recovery to reverse that perception - it would likely be interpreted as happening 'in spite of' rather than 'because of' their efforts.

    A shame, as although I've turned against Cameron and co, I'd like to be optimistic about their efforts.

    I agree KLE4.

    I think the Tory problem was they tried to do too much, too soon. Too long in opposition, too keen for power, once they got there they were like kids in a sweet shop. From Cameron and
    Osborne down.

    All their pet projects and ideological fantasies and little schemes that had been encouraged by various think tanks and interest groups as power grew closer, it all came pouring out.

    It has led to very, very poor Government.

    A period in reflective opposition, forgetting that Thatcher and Blair ever existed and moving into the 21st Century, will be good for the Tory Party.

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714

    "In a way Welsh Labour have been been luckier in not having highweight politicians in Wesminster in recent times"

    To be fair they've also been a bit luckier with their representatives in Cardiff. I mean obviously there are some dreadful ones, but if Scottish Labour had someone of the calibre of Carwyn Jones it would be a different proposition.

    I also noticed an high rate of turnover in their Assembly group. AMs in safe seats standing down after 2-3 terms leaving room for someone new. This could be a good thing for parties instead of having people who have lost energy dragging out for another 1-2 terms just for the sake of it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    welshowl said:

    RobD said:

    MrJones said:


    the problem is the political class opening the borders against the wishes of the public

    Before the enactment of the British Nationality Act 1948, a British subject could enter this country and work freely, without let or hindrance. In 1947, approximately a third of the world's population were British subjects. Isn't the reality that over the last seventy-five years, the politicians of both parties have actually closed the borders, and instituted a highly restrictive system of immigration control. Both parties intend to close the border yet further. I have only one question: why wasn't I consulted about this decision to close the border?

    Over the last 75 years the number of British subjects on Earth has significantly decreased
    If I were King-Emperor I would reconstitute the Empire/Commonwealth as a fully democratic federation, with a central Imperial Senate.
    If only you'd persuaded the powers that were in 1763 at the end of the Seven Years War. Then it might've worked. The USA would've remained part of the Crown and WW 1 and 2 wouldn't have happened much later as nobody would've taken us on..... Discuss
    Alternate history time! How about the 1776 Potomac Compromise - the 13 Colonies get representation at Westminster in exchange for remaining loyal subjects of King Sunil - I mean King George, ooops!

    :)
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    kle4 said:

    welshowl said:

    RobD said:

    MrJones said:


    the problem is the political class opening the borders against the wishes of the public

    Before the enactment of the British Nationality Act 1948, a British subject could enter this country and work freely, without let or hindrance. In 1947, approximately a third of the world's population were British subjects. Isn't the reality that over the last seventy-five years, the politicians of both parties have actually closed the borders, and instituted a highly restrictive system of immigration control. Both parties intend to close the border yet further. I have only one question: why wasn't I consulted about this decision to close the border?

    Over the last 75 years the number of British subjects on Earth has significantly decreased
    If I were King-Emperor I would reconstitute the Empire/Commonwealth as a fully democratic federation, with a central Imperial Senate.
    If only you'd persuaded the powers that were in 1763 at the end of the Seven Years War. Then it might've worked. The USA would've remained part of the Crown and WW 1 and 2 wouldn't have happened much later as nobody would've taken us on..... Discuss
    Any alternate history fiction based on that premise? Sounds interesting. I think there was an episode of Sliders with a similar background.

    I don't think anyone on either side of the Atlantic was ready for "full democracy" at that point. However, if we'd given American representation in parliament, the intake of Whigs would likely have brought forward parliamentary reform to the other side of the French Revolution (or whatever replaced it in this history).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    Socrates said:

    RobD said:

    welshowl said:



    If only you'd persuaded the powers that were in 1763 at the end of the Seven Years War. Then it might've worked. The USA would've remained part of the Crown and WW 1 and 2 wouldn't have happened much later as nobody would've taken us on..... Discuss

    Well the Empire wouldn't have been so Eastward-facing if that had happened.
    If you mean by that we wouldn't have gained land in the East, I don't think that's true. The EIC was off making its wars in India with its own army without much contact from Westminster.
    The internet would make administering a global federation/commonwealth/empire much easier!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    welshowl said:

    RobD said:

    MrJones said:


    the problem is the political class opening the borders against the wishes of the public

    Before the enactment of the British Nationality Act 1948, a British subject could enter this country and work freely, without let or hindrance. In 1947, approximately a third of the world's population were British subjects. Isn't the reality that over the last seventy-five years, the politicians of both parties have actually closed the borders, and instituted a highly restrictive system of immigration control. Both parties intend to close the border yet further. I have only one question: why wasn't I consulted about this decision to close the border?

    Over the last 75 years the number of British subjects on Earth has significantly decreased
    If I were King-Emperor I would reconstitute the Empire/Commonwealth as a fully democratic federation, with a central Imperial Senate.
    If only you'd persuaded the powers that were in 1763 at the end of the Seven Years War. Then it might've worked. The USA would've remained part of the Crown and WW 1 and 2 wouldn't have happened much later as nobody would've taken us on..... Discuss
    But it was the impetus of losing the US that drove the British focus towards Africa and India. My view is we are better off with a friendly cousin over the pond and family in the emerging markets.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    welshowl said:

    RobD said:

    MrJones said:


    the problem is the political class opening the borders against the wishes of the public

    Before the enactment of the British Nationality Act 1948, a British subject could enter this country and work freely, without let or hindrance. In 1947, approximately a third of the world's population were British subjects. Isn't the reality that over the last seventy-five years, the politicians of both parties have actually closed the borders, and instituted a highly restrictive system of immigration control. Both parties intend to close the border yet further. I have only one question: why wasn't I consulted about this decision to close the border?

    Over the last 75 years the number of British subjects on Earth has significantly decreased
    If I were King-Emperor I would reconstitute the Empire/Commonwealth as a fully democratic federation, with a central Imperial Senate.
    If only you'd persuaded the powers that were in 1763 at the end of the Seven Years War. Then it might've worked. The USA would've remained part of the Crown and WW 1 and 2 wouldn't have happened much later as nobody would've taken us on..... Discuss
    Alternate history time! How about the 1776 Potomac Compromise - the 13 Colonies get representation at Westminster in exchange for remaining loyal subjects of King Sunil - I mean King George, ooops!

    :)
    1776 was way too late. You'd need to have a decent offer to the colonists back in the 1760s.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    edited April 2013

    welshowl said:

    RobD said:

    MrJones said:


    the problem is the political class opening the borders against the wishes of the public

    Before the enactment of the British Nationality Act 1948, a British subject could enter this country and work freely, without let or hindrance. In 1947, approximately a third of the world's population were British subjects. Isn't the reality that over the last seventy-five years, the politicians of both parties have actually closed the borders, and instituted a highly restrictive system of immigration control. Both parties intend to close the border yet further. I have only one question: why wasn't I consulted about this decision to close the border?

    Over the last 75 years the number of British subjects on Earth has significantly decreased
    If I were King-Emperor I would reconstitute the Empire/Commonwealth as a fully democratic federation, with a central Imperial Senate.
    If only you'd persuaded the powers that were in 1763 at the end of the Seven Years War. Then it might've worked. The USA would've remained part of the Crown and WW 1 and 2 wouldn't have happened much later as nobody would've taken us on..... Discuss
    Alternate history time! How about the 1776 Potomac Compromise - the 13 Colonies get representation at Westminster in exchange for remaining loyal subjects of King Sunil - I mean King George, ooops!

    :)
    I like to wind up my American friends by saying to them we call the Fourth of July, the day The British decided we'd much rather have India than America.
This discussion has been closed.