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Latest polls suggest no budget bounce – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,218
edited April 2023 in General
Latest polls suggest no budget bounce – politicalbetting.com

Labour leads by 19%, the first time in 2023 that Labour has led by less than 20%.Westminster VI (26 March):Labour 46% (-1)Conservative 27% (+1)Liberal Democrat 10% (-1)Reform UK 8% (+3)Green 4% (-2)SNP 3% (-1)Other 2% (–)Changes +/- 19 Marchhttps://t.co/XMk3pvh65q pic.twitter.com/Ki7CHGswDT

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    First
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    second like the Tories
  • Horse_BHorse_B Posts: 106
    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?
  • Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    A booming economy.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546
    Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    Time.
  • EmeraldEmerald Posts: 55
    Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    he cant and he wont. Political obsessives will watch every twitch of the polls but the public have made up their mind. The only people Sunak might attract back are a few wealthy retirees.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,303
    DougSeal said:

    Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    Liz Truss is still on the subs bench. Just sayin’…
    Her great ambition was to be the first female Chancellor...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    edited March 2023

    Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    A booming economy.
    Like John Major in 1997? It would take a miracle, and with some wobbly banks across the world a bloomin' miracle. Possible, I suppose.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,694
    Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    Just wait till he single handed storms the Kremlin, takes out Putin, then gives everyone in the U.K. £10,000 each from his personal stash, and England win the ashes this summer and the Rugby World Cup, and Starmer is ousted by a resurgent Corbyn…

    Ok, pretty unlikely. But less unlikely than it was when Sunak took over. I’m pretty confident Labour will win the next election, but I’m less sure than I was.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    TimS said:

    Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    Time, inertia, reversion to the mean, the entire media, shy stories, swing back.
    Voter suppression.
  • FPT

    JosiasJessop said:

    On another note, Beeching's report 'Reshaping of Britain's Railways' was published sixty years ago today.

    I wonder how a contemporary PB would have discussed it? The Conservatives saying how necessary it was, whilst all the Labour people said they wouldn't enact the recommendations if they got power? (Only to enact them when they got power) ?

    Meanwhile, old farts would be discussing how the shortening hemlines of girl's skirts meant that the Apocalypse was on its way...

    The commons hansard debates are online

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1963-04-29/debates/7c2b20d2-6e98-4254-b7e0-0e78f5791897/Railways

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1963-04-30/debates/4a00b735-ea47-492e-affd-1e700cd980f8/Railways
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    Reform looks a tad high there.

    I'd say the Tories are on c.30%. Labour probably draw back to 40-42% in a GE.

    Question is whether the Tories can creep any closer.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    Just wait till he single handed storms the Kremlin, takes out Putin, then gives everyone in the U.K. £10,000 each from his personal stash, and England win the ashes this summer and the Rugby World Cup, and Starmer is ousted by a resurgent Corbyn…

    Ok, pretty unlikely. But less unlikely than it was when Sunak took over. I’m pretty confident Labour will win the next election, but I’m less sure than I was.
    Surely it will be Boris Johnson who storms the Kremlin, takes out Putin and repatriates Ukraine for England. I think I have already read it in the Telegraph.
  • EmeraldEmerald Posts: 55

    Reform looks a tad high there.

    I'd say the Tories are on c.30%. Labour probably draw back to 40-42% in a GE.

    Question is whether the Tories can creep any closer.

    you are making the mistake of extrapolating a trend. The tories could just as easily fall back again.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    TimS said:

    Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    Time, inertia, reversion to the mean, the entire media, shy stories, swing back.
    ...and a realisation that Labour has no answers.

    Oh, and Starmer is shit.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914

    TimS said:

    Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    Time, inertia, reversion to the mean, the entire media, shy stories, swing back.
    Voter suppression.
    That really is the big unknown. It could be massive and a real game changer.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    I am entirely convinced Labour will win a majority in 2024. I am no longer expecting an extinction level event for the Tories. Sunak is turning out to be quite competent and not embarrassing, and he's even solving a few problems here and there. Enough to save the Tories from the apocalypse

    Britain is also looking less of a unique basket case than it was, what with France in flames, and Scottish indy receding into nowhere. But that in turn means Starmer will probably win a handy number of Scottish seats

    Starmer will get a majority of 50-100?

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706

    TimS said:

    Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    Time, inertia, reversion to the mean, the entire media, shy stories, swing back.
    ...and a realisation that Labour has no answers.

    Oh, and Starmer is shit.
    Tories keep flattering Labour by borrowing their policies.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,476
    System said:

    Latest polls suggest no budget bounce – politicalbetting.com

    Labour leads by 19%, the first time in 2023 that Labour has led by less than 20%.Westminster VI (26 March):Labour 46% (-1)Conservative 27% (+1)Liberal Democrat 10% (-1)Reform UK 8% (+3)Green 4% (-2)SNP 3% (-1)Other 2% (–)Changes +/- 19 Marchhttps://t.co/XMk3pvh65q pic.twitter.com/Ki7CHGswDT

    Read the full story here

    Surely a bounce goes up and comes down like Deltapoll?

    Something g that goes up and doesn’t come down isn’t really a bounce…
  • Leon said:

    I am entirely convinced Labour will win a majority in 2024. I am no longer expecting an extinction level event for the Tories. Sunak is turning out to be quite competent and not embarrassing, and he's even solving a few problems here and there. Enough to save the Tories from the apocalypse

    Britain is also looking less of a unique basket case than it was, what with France in flames, and Scottish indy receding into nowhere. But that in turn means Starmer will probably win a handy number of Scottish seats

    Starmer will get a majority of 50-100?

    To win a majority of 100 Starmer would need to make a net gain of around 180 seats.

    For the record, Labour gained 146 seats in 1997.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,927
    I suspect he can’t close the gap. Interesting parallel history would have been what the polls would be saying now if he had won the initial leadership contest. I suspect that at least 10 points of the circa 20 point deficit is down to the ridiculous Truss debacle and resulting fallout, and I think quite rightly voters will punish the Tories for that.

    I do suspect he can and will claw some votes back. I think barring some scandalous or self-destructive event from Labour (never say never) the next flavour of government will be red - the only question is whether there will be a majority, and if there is, what size

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    Emerald said:

    Reform looks a tad high there.

    I'd say the Tories are on c.30%. Labour probably draw back to 40-42% in a GE.

    Question is whether the Tories can creep any closer.

    you are making the mistake of extrapolating a trend. The tories could just as easily fall back again.
    Anything is possible but I don't think they will.

    Sunak's competent government is rallying the base and Boris/Truss are a busted flush.
  • EmeraldEmerald Posts: 55

    Leon said:

    I am entirely convinced Labour will win a majority in 2024. I am no longer expecting an extinction level event for the Tories. Sunak is turning out to be quite competent and not embarrassing, and he's even solving a few problems here and there. Enough to save the Tories from the apocalypse

    Britain is also looking less of a unique basket case than it was, what with France in flames, and Scottish indy receding into nowhere. But that in turn means Starmer will probably win a handy number of Scottish seats

    Starmer will get a majority of 50-100?

    To win a majority of 100 Starmer would need to make a net gain of around 180 seats.

    For the record, Labour gained 146 seats in 1997.
    surely you must realise you can't go on historical parallels over the last 7 years. Wasnt Trump too extreme to ever win the presidency?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    Leon said:

    I am entirely convinced Labour will win a majority in 2024. I am no longer expecting an extinction level event for the Tories. Sunak is turning out to be quite competent and not embarrassing, and he's even solving a few problems here and there. Enough to save the Tories from the apocalypse

    Britain is also looking less of a unique basket case than it was, what with France in flames, and Scottish indy receding into nowhere. But that in turn means Starmer will probably win a handy number of Scottish seats

    Starmer will get a majority of 50-100?

    Will Starmer in a campaign fall as flat as May?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    TimS said:

    Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    Time, inertia, reversion to the mean, the entire media, shy stories, swing back.
    ...and a realisation that Labour has no answers.

    Oh, and Starmer is shit.
    Keir Fear!
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,039
    Off topic, but seeing this may help the UK avoid one of the worst mistakes the US has made, ever:
    "Life expectancy in the US by race, 1900-2019":
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Life_Expectancy_in_the_U.S._by_race_1900-2019.png

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_life_expectancy

    As you can see, life expectancy for both blacks and whites rose over those years, with some interuptions like World War II, and the gap between the two groups diminished, slowly.

    Until about 2010. And then drugs, particularly fentanyl, took their toll. And the steady increase in life expectancy stopped.

    We, as a nation, did not react well to this challenge. Others will differ, but I lay some of the blame for that failure on Barack Obama. Who should have learned from the crack epidemic of the 1980s.

    Just as I lay some of the blame for the high COVID toll in the US on Donald the Loser. Who could have learned from competent medical professionals.

    (There is good news, and another lesson, in the way life expectancy has increased for Hispanics, so that it is now well above that of whites.)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    I am entirely convinced Labour will win a majority in 2024. I am no longer expecting an extinction level event for the Tories. Sunak is turning out to be quite competent and not embarrassing, and he's even solving a few problems here and there. Enough to save the Tories from the apocalypse

    Britain is also looking less of a unique basket case than it was, what with France in flames, and Scottish indy receding into nowhere. But that in turn means Starmer will probably win a handy number of Scottish seats

    Starmer will get a majority of 50-100?

    To win a majority of 100 Starmer would need to make a net gain of around 180 seats.

    For the record, Labour gained 146 seats in 1997.
    So more likely to be closer to 50 than 100? Yes, probably
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    Leon said:

    I am entirely convinced Labour will win a majority in 2024. I am no longer expecting an extinction level event for the Tories. Sunak is turning out to be quite competent and not embarrassing, and he's even solving a few problems here and there. Enough to save the Tories from the apocalypse

    Britain is also looking less of a unique basket case than it was, what with France in flames, and Scottish indy receding into nowhere. But that in turn means Starmer will probably win a handy number of Scottish seats

    Starmer will get a majority of 50-100?

    To win a majority of 100 Starmer would need to make a net gain of around 180 seats.
    Thank you, Mr Corbyn!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468
    edited March 2023

    Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    A booming economy.
    John Major would like a sad, sympathetic word, I'm sure;



    Sunak's problem is that, once trust is blown, it's damn hard to win back. Even if Sunak manages to repair the real damage done to the economy by the Trussterfuck (and "if" is doing more work there than the average Conservative voter is right now) the voter response is likely to be "Meh. Conservatives clearing up Conservative mess."

    That's if the "pounds in your pocket" economy does improve. It might, but it equally might not.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    For the first time, rode the new-ish electric train service from London St Pancras to Corby and back. Even in the off-peak, East Midlands Railway give you 8 coaches! I think the electrification of the Midland is also extending slowly towards Leicester.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034
    FPT (sorry)
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Since 1980 about 45% of insect species have become extinct says Radio 4.
    If true that is quite an astonishing stat.
    Puts all other issues into perspective.

    That is horrific. Probably rain-forest heavy in the extinction stakes, but we aren't covering ourselves in glory in Europe.
    This is pure anecdote, but in my travels in the last two years I have noticed a remarkable absence of mosquitoes: everywhere

    From the Mediterranean to Vietnam, from Bangkok to Louisiana, from Montenegro to Cambodia. Places where you would normally expect to face real issues with mosquitoes, I have barely been bitten at all

    Is it sheer coincidence? Of course in some ways it's very nice, mossies are a fucking nightmare, but in other ways it is apocalyptic, without insects the global ecosystem will collapse very fast
    I've been watching (as an ex-smoker and current vaper) from the sunny corner of my workplace carpark the dramatic decline in the midge numbers.

    Over about 20 years it's gone from 'jeez - not going near that corner!' to 'oh! look! a midge! how sweet!'.

    Really, really very noticeable.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724

    Off topic, but seeing this may help the UK avoid one of the worst mistakes the US has made, ever:
    "Life expectancy in the US by race, 1900-2019":
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Life_Expectancy_in_the_U.S._by_race_1900-2019.png

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_life_expectancy

    As you can see, life expectancy for both blacks and whites rose over those years, with some interuptions like World War II, and the gap between the two groups diminished, slowly.

    Until about 2010. And then drugs, particularly fentanyl, took their toll. And the steady increase in life expectancy stopped.

    We, as a nation, did not react well to this challenge. Others will differ, but I lay some of the blame for that failure on Barack Obama. Who should have learned from the crack epidemic of the 1980s.

    Just as I lay some of the blame for the high COVID toll in the US on Donald the Loser. Who could have learned from competent medical professionals.

    (There is good news, and another lesson, in the way life expectancy has increased for Hispanics, so that it is now well above that of whites.)

    it was the medical professionals who were dishing out fentanyl like they were M&Ms
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am entirely convinced Labour will win a majority in 2024. I am no longer expecting an extinction level event for the Tories. Sunak is turning out to be quite competent and not embarrassing, and he's even solving a few problems here and there. Enough to save the Tories from the apocalypse

    Britain is also looking less of a unique basket case than it was, what with France in flames, and Scottish indy receding into nowhere. But that in turn means Starmer will probably win a handy number of Scottish seats

    Starmer will get a majority of 50-100?

    To win a majority of 100 Starmer would need to make a net gain of around 180 seats.

    For the record, Labour gained 146 seats in 1997.
    So more likely to be closer to 50 than 100? Yes, probably
    Unlikely.


  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,034
    Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    Lazy drift to 'mean'? He needs about a point a month. Which is very plausible.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,478
    edited March 2023

    For the first time, rode the new-ish electric train service from London St Pancras to Corby and back. Even in the off-peak, East Midlands Railway give you 8 coaches! I think the electrification of the Midland is also extending slowly towards Leicester.

    Blood hell, at first read I thought you'd written St Pancras to Corbyn and back, and that this was a new, very short commuter route to help Jezza to hang on to Islington North.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840

    Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    A booming economy.
    Don't be silly.

    Emerald said:

    Reform looks a tad high there.

    I'd say the Tories are on c.30%. Labour probably draw back to 40-42% in a GE.

    Question is whether the Tories can creep any closer.

    you are making the mistake of extrapolating a trend. The tories could just as easily fall back again.
    Anything is possible but I don't think they will.

    Sunak's competent government is rallying the base and Boris/Truss are a busted flush.
    That's reasonable. I don't see the Conservatives polling less than a third of the popular vote come the next GE, and they'll probably do a bit better than that. Too many well-to-do olds amongst the population for them to crash and burn.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    I am entirely convinced Labour will win a majority in 2024. I am no longer expecting an extinction level event for the Tories. Sunak is turning out to be quite competent and not embarrassing, and he's even solving a few problems here and there. Enough to save the Tories from the apocalypse

    Britain is also looking less of a unique basket case than it was, what with France in flames, and Scottish indy receding into nowhere. But that in turn means Starmer will probably win a handy number of Scottish seats

    Starmer will get a majority of 50-100?

    Will Starmer in a campaign fall as flat as May?
    He is quite monumentally boring. I find it genuinely hard to listen to him for more than a minute or two and then something in my soul starts dying. Christ knows how his wife copes

    However I reckon this is priced in. We all know he is stupefyingly dull. It won't be a surprise. And it's not like Sunak has Boris levels of brio and charm. TMay's spectrumy woodenness WAS something of a surprise in her campaign, we all thought she was solid and tedious and competent, but it turned out she was something much more offputting, and shrill, and brittle, and she had madly bad policy notions which she then U-turned immediately. Starmer won't do any of that

    Labour's problems will start the day after they win. They have zero ideas, Reeves is a void, there's no one else, they will be Woke and worthy, but they will at least keep the UK together until we finally get a real new reforming Thatcher, some time around 2030-35?

    Or the robots will kill us for the bantz long before then
  • EmeraldEmerald Posts: 55
    ohnotnow said:

    FPT (sorry)

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Since 1980 about 45% of insect species have become extinct says Radio 4.
    If true that is quite an astonishing stat.
    Puts all other issues into perspective.

    That is horrific. Probably rain-forest heavy in the extinction stakes, but we aren't covering ourselves in glory in Europe.
    This is pure anecdote, but in my travels in the last two years I have noticed a remarkable absence of mosquitoes: everywhere

    From the Mediterranean to Vietnam, from Bangkok to Louisiana, from Montenegro to Cambodia. Places where you would normally expect to face real issues with mosquitoes, I have barely been bitten at all

    Is it sheer coincidence? Of course in some ways it's very nice, mossies are a fucking nightmare, but in other ways it is apocalyptic, without insects the global ecosystem will collapse very fast
    I've been watching (as an ex-smoker and current vaper) from the sunny corner of my workplace carpark the dramatic decline in the midge numbers.

    Over about 20 years it's gone from 'jeez - not going near that corner!' to 'oh! look! a midge! how sweet!'.

    Really, really very noticeable.
    think it may be something to do with the 5g rollout.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    ohnotnow said:

    FPT (sorry)

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Since 1980 about 45% of insect species have become extinct says Radio 4.
    If true that is quite an astonishing stat.
    Puts all other issues into perspective.

    That is horrific. Probably rain-forest heavy in the extinction stakes, but we aren't covering ourselves in glory in Europe.
    This is pure anecdote, but in my travels in the last two years I have noticed a remarkable absence of mosquitoes: everywhere

    From the Mediterranean to Vietnam, from Bangkok to Louisiana, from Montenegro to Cambodia. Places where you would normally expect to face real issues with mosquitoes, I have barely been bitten at all

    Is it sheer coincidence? Of course in some ways it's very nice, mossies are a fucking nightmare, but in other ways it is apocalyptic, without insects the global ecosystem will collapse very fast
    I've been watching (as an ex-smoker and current vaper) from the sunny corner of my workplace carpark the dramatic decline in the midge numbers.

    Over about 20 years it's gone from 'jeez - not going near that corner!' to 'oh! look! a midge! how sweet!'.

    Really, really very noticeable.
    Fascinating. So I am not deluding myself?

    It's such a subjective thing, but I am sure the mossies are dying out. And yet I can't find any hard data to back this up
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am entirely convinced Labour will win a majority in 2024. I am no longer expecting an extinction level event for the Tories. Sunak is turning out to be quite competent and not embarrassing, and he's even solving a few problems here and there. Enough to save the Tories from the apocalypse

    Britain is also looking less of a unique basket case than it was, what with France in flames, and Scottish indy receding into nowhere. But that in turn means Starmer will probably win a handy number of Scottish seats

    Starmer will get a majority of 50-100?

    Will Starmer in a campaign fall as flat as May?
    He is quite monumentally boring. I find it genuinely hard to listen to him for more than a minute or two and then something in my soul starts dying. Christ knows how his wife copes

    However I reckon this is priced in. We all know he is stupefyingly dull. It won't be a surprise. And it's not like Sunak has Boris levels of brio and charm. TMay's spectrumy woodenness WAS something of a surprise in her campaign, we all thought she was solid and tedious and competent, but it turned out she was something much more offputting, and shrill, and brittle, and she had madly bad policy notions which she then U-turned immediately. Starmer won't do any of that

    Labour's problems will start the day after they win. They have zero ideas, Reeves is a void, there's no one else, they will be Woke and worthy, but they will at least keep the UK together until we finally get a real new reforming Thatcher, some time around 2030-35?

    Or the robots will kill us for the bantz long before then
    What's going on with his throat and his voice?

    It's like there's the voicebox of a twelve-year boy trying to get out.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am entirely convinced Labour will win a majority in 2024. I am no longer expecting an extinction level event for the Tories. Sunak is turning out to be quite competent and not embarrassing, and he's even solving a few problems here and there. Enough to save the Tories from the apocalypse

    Britain is also looking less of a unique basket case than it was, what with France in flames, and Scottish indy receding into nowhere. But that in turn means Starmer will probably win a handy number of Scottish seats

    Starmer will get a majority of 50-100?

    Will Starmer in a campaign fall as flat as May?
    He is quite monumentally boring. I find it genuinely hard to listen to him for more than a minute or two and then something in my soul starts dying. Christ knows how his wife copes

    However I reckon this is priced in. We all know he is stupefyingly dull. It won't be a surprise. And it's not like Sunak has Boris levels of brio and charm. TMay's spectrumy woodenness WAS something of a surprise in her campaign, we all thought she was solid and tedious and competent, but it turned out she was something much more offputting, and shrill, and brittle, and she had madly bad policy notions which she then U-turned immediately. Starmer won't do any of that

    Labour's problems will start the day after they win. They have zero ideas, Reeves is a void, there's no one else, they will be Woke and worthy, but they will at least keep the UK together until we finally get a real new reforming Thatcher, some time around 2030-35?

    Or the robots will kill us for the bantz long before then
    What's going on with his throat and his voice?

    It's like there's the voicebox of a twelve-year boy trying to get out.
    Yeah, the voice is weird

    On the upside, Starmer is quite ruthless and cunning. He has a genuine streak of clever political brutality. Which can be a very good thing. He may - ahem - surprise on the upside in that department

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am entirely convinced Labour will win a majority in 2024. I am no longer expecting an extinction level event for the Tories. Sunak is turning out to be quite competent and not embarrassing, and he's even solving a few problems here and there. Enough to save the Tories from the apocalypse

    Britain is also looking less of a unique basket case than it was, what with France in flames, and Scottish indy receding into nowhere. But that in turn means Starmer will probably win a handy number of Scottish seats

    Starmer will get a majority of 50-100?

    Will Starmer in a campaign fall as flat as May?
    He is quite monumentally boring. I find it genuinely hard to listen to him for more than a minute or two and then something in my soul starts dying. Christ knows how his wife copes

    However I reckon this is priced in. We all know he is stupefyingly dull. It won't be a surprise. And it's not like Sunak has Boris levels of brio and charm. TMay's spectrumy woodenness WAS something of a surprise in her campaign, we all thought she was solid and tedious and competent, but it turned out she was something much more offputting, and shrill, and brittle, and she had madly bad policy notions which she then U-turned immediately. Starmer won't do any of that

    Labour's problems will start the day after they win. They have zero ideas, Reeves is a void, there's no one else, they will be Woke and worthy, but they will at least keep the UK together until we finally get a real new reforming Thatcher, some time around 2030-35?

    Or the robots will kill us for the bantz long before then
    What's going on with his throat and his voice?

    It's like there's the voicebox of a twelve-year boy trying to get out.
    The larynx of a shape shifting lizard?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am entirely convinced Labour will win a majority in 2024. I am no longer expecting an extinction level event for the Tories. Sunak is turning out to be quite competent and not embarrassing, and he's even solving a few problems here and there. Enough to save the Tories from the apocalypse

    Britain is also looking less of a unique basket case than it was, what with France in flames, and Scottish indy receding into nowhere. But that in turn means Starmer will probably win a handy number of Scottish seats

    Starmer will get a majority of 50-100?

    To win a majority of 100 Starmer would need to make a net gain of around 180 seats.

    For the record, Labour gained 146 seats in 1997.
    So more likely to be closer to 50 than 100? Yes, probably
    Unlikely.


    A regular reminder that it's not just the seat numbers, it's the swing. The nine point swing that delivered Blair a landslide gives Starmer a majority of one. And that assumes UNS and the implosion of the SNP, one of which is a fantasy and the other of which is if more probable than twelve hours ago not something anyone has got rich betting on.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546
    edited March 2023

    Emerald said:

    Reform looks a tad high there.

    I'd say the Tories are on c.30%. Labour probably draw back to 40-42% in a GE.

    Question is whether the Tories can creep any closer.

    you are making the mistake of extrapolating a trend. The tories could just as easily fall back again.
    Anything is possible but I don't think they will.

    Sunak's competent government is rallying the base and Boris/Truss are a busted flush.
    In general, people don't hold hard times against the government, if they think the government is doing its best.

    Under Boris and Truss, the government was both corrupt and frivolous. Now, it's beginning to appear fairly competent.

    Sunak's ratings have shown a marked improvement, relative to Starmer's, with Redfield and Wilton.

    Within the population as a whole, a substantial number (especially in the Midlands and parts of the North) have done pretty well over the past 13 years.

    I still think time for a change wins out, in 2024, but I'm quite certain now, the government will be retaining 200+ seats.

    I'd favour Tissue Price to hold his seat.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,337
    Tres said:

    Off topic, but seeing this may help the UK avoid one of the worst mistakes the US has made, ever:
    "Life expectancy in the US by race, 1900-2019":
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Life_Expectancy_in_the_U.S._by_race_1900-2019.png

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_life_expectancy

    As you can see, life expectancy for both blacks and whites rose over those years, with some interuptions like World War II, and the gap between the two groups diminished, slowly.

    Until about 2010. And then drugs, particularly fentanyl, took their toll. And the steady increase in life expectancy stopped.

    We, as a nation, did not react well to this challenge. Others will differ, but I lay some of the blame for that failure on Barack Obama. Who should have learned from the crack epidemic of the 1980s.

    Just as I lay some of the blame for the high COVID toll in the US on Donald the Loser. Who could have learned from competent medical professionals.

    (There is good news, and another lesson, in the way life expectancy has increased for Hispanics, so that it is now well above that of whites.)

    it was the medical professionals who were dishing out fentanyl like they were M&Ms
    The Sackler family have a lot to answer for. They spent as much as it took to convince US medical professionals to prescribe Oxycontin to their patients & earnt $billions as a result.

    Somehow the UK missed out on their malign influence on the medical profession.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780

    For the first time, rode the new-ish electric train service from London St Pancras to Corby and back. Even in the off-peak, East Midlands Railway give you 8 coaches! I think the electrification of the Midland is also extending slowly towards Leicester.

    Saw one of those, a bi-mode at Lincoln. Handsome looking bit of kit, what's it like to ride on?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,983
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Since 1980 about 45% of insect species have become extinct says Radio 4.
    If true that is quite an astonishing stat.
    Puts all other issues into perspective.

    That is horrific. Probably rain-forest heavy in the extinction stakes, but we aren't covering ourselves in glory in Europe.
    This is pure anecdote, but in my travels in the last two years I have noticed a remarkable absence of mosquitoes: everywhere

    From the Mediterranean to Vietnam, from Bangkok to Louisiana, from Montenegro to Cambodia. Places where you would normally expect to face real issues with mosquitoes, I have barely been bitten at all

    Is it sheer coincidence? Of course in some ways it's very nice, mossies are a fucking nightmare, but in other ways it is apocalyptic, without insects the global ecosystem will collapse very fast
    I suspect it’s personal to you - they are repelled by the amount of alcohol you have consumed, oozing from your every pore while you lie there, comatose.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZubL4mZ5n0
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    edited March 2023
    Let’s hope Labour do it. The odds are against them winning from 200seats, but they are in with a chance. A Tory win, after the mess they’ve made, would be catastrophic.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    TimS said:

    Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    Time, inertia, reversion to the mean, the entire media, shy stories, swing back.
    ...and a realisation that Labour has no answers.

    Oh, and Starmer is shit.
    So shit that he’s taken Labour from 20 points behind to 20 points ahead of the Tories. That shit?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,069
    edited March 2023
    I hope you're all watching Panorama examining a certain policy instigated by Thatcher that might just have had a few tiny negative consequences

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001kk0h/panorama-whats-gone-wrong-with-our-housing

    "Richard Bilton investigates the problems Margaret Thatcher's right-to-buy policy is causing 40 years later, including the return of slum landlords"

  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,039
    Tres said: "it was the medical professionals who were dishing out fentanyl like they were M&Ms"

    That certainly helped start the epidemic -- but that doesn't absolve the rest of us from failing to take steps to control it. Especially our high government officials.

    Similarly, murderers are responsible for the high homicide rate in Chicago, but that doesn't mean that others in the city, especially elected officials, are doing all they should to reduce it.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010

    TimS said:

    Horse_B said:

    How is Sunak going to overturn a 20 point lead? What else does he have left?

    Time, inertia, reversion to the mean, the entire media, shy stories, swing back.
    Voter suppression.
    That really is the big unknown. It could be massive and a real game changer.
    Or it could be a complete lie.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am entirely convinced Labour will win a majority in 2024. I am no longer expecting an extinction level event for the Tories. Sunak is turning out to be quite competent and not embarrassing, and he's even solving a few problems here and there. Enough to save the Tories from the apocalypse

    Britain is also looking less of a unique basket case than it was, what with France in flames, and Scottish indy receding into nowhere. But that in turn means Starmer will probably win a handy number of Scottish seats

    Starmer will get a majority of 50-100?

    Will Starmer in a campaign fall as flat as May?
    He is quite monumentally boring. I find it genuinely hard to listen to him for more than a minute or two and then something in my soul starts dying. Christ knows how his wife copes

    However I reckon this is priced in. We all know he is stupefyingly dull. It won't be a surprise. And it's not like Sunak has Boris levels of brio and charm. TMay's spectrumy woodenness WAS something of a surprise in her campaign, we all thought she was solid and tedious and competent, but it turned out she was something much more offputting, and shrill, and brittle, and she had madly bad policy notions which she then U-turned immediately. Starmer won't do any of that

    Labour's problems will start the day after they win. They have zero ideas, Reeves is a void, there's no one else, they will be Woke and worthy, but they will at least keep the UK together until we finally get a real new reforming Thatcher, some time around 2030-35?

    Or the robots will kill us for the bantz long before then
    What's going on with his throat and his voice?

    It's like there's the voicebox of a twelve-year boy trying to get out.
    Yeah, the voice is weird

    On the upside, Starmer is quite ruthless and cunning. He has a genuine streak of clever political brutality. Which can be a very good thing. He may - ahem - surprise on the upside in that department

    Last time Sunak was in a competitive race to become PM he lost to a lettuce
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    Phil said:

    Tres said:

    Off topic, but seeing this may help the UK avoid one of the worst mistakes the US has made, ever:
    "Life expectancy in the US by race, 1900-2019":
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Life_Expectancy_in_the_U.S._by_race_1900-2019.png

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_life_expectancy

    As you can see, life expectancy for both blacks and whites rose over those years, with some interuptions like World War II, and the gap between the two groups diminished, slowly.

    Until about 2010. And then drugs, particularly fentanyl, took their toll. And the steady increase in life expectancy stopped.

    We, as a nation, did not react well to this challenge. Others will differ, but I lay some of the blame for that failure on Barack Obama. Who should have learned from the crack epidemic of the 1980s.

    Just as I lay some of the blame for the high COVID toll in the US on Donald the Loser. Who could have learned from competent medical professionals.

    (There is good news, and another lesson, in the way life expectancy has increased for Hispanics, so that it is now well above that of whites.)

    it was the medical professionals who were dishing out fentanyl like they were M&Ms
    The Sackler family have a lot to answer for. They spent as much as it took to convince US medical professionals to prescribe Oxycontin to their patients & earnt $billions as a result.

    Somehow the UK missed out on their malign influence on the medical profession.

    There is a fantastic book called Empire of Pain by Patrick Radden Keefe which catalogues the opiate crisis and the attempt by the Sacklers to launder their reputations as patrons of the arts
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840
    edited March 2023
    CatMan said:

    I hope you're all watching Panorama examining a certain policy instigated by Thatcher that might just have had a few tiny negative consequences

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001kk0h/panorama-whats-gone-wrong-with-our-housing

    "Richard Bilton investigates the problems Margaret Thatcher's right-to-buy policy is causing 40 years later, including the return of slum landlords"

    Nah, I've got the snooker on. But it's perfectly obvious that the state of the UK housing market is a train wreck, a significant brake on the entire economy and ruinous socially.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,780
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am entirely convinced Labour will win a majority in 2024. I am no longer expecting an extinction level event for the Tories. Sunak is turning out to be quite competent and not embarrassing, and he's even solving a few problems here and there. Enough to save the Tories from the apocalypse

    Britain is also looking less of a unique basket case than it was, what with France in flames, and Scottish indy receding into nowhere. But that in turn means Starmer will probably win a handy number of Scottish seats

    Starmer will get a majority of 50-100?

    Will Starmer in a campaign fall as flat as May?
    He is quite monumentally boring. I find it genuinely hard to listen to him for more than a minute or two and then something in my soul starts dying. Christ knows how his wife copes

    However I reckon this is priced in. We all know he is stupefyingly dull. It won't be a surprise. And it's not like Sunak has Boris levels of brio and charm. TMay's spectrumy woodenness WAS something of a surprise in her campaign, we all thought she was solid and tedious and competent, but it turned out she was something much more offputting, and shrill, and brittle, and she had madly bad policy notions which she then U-turned immediately. Starmer won't do any of that

    Labour's problems will start the day after they win. They have zero ideas, Reeves is a void, there's no one else, they will be Woke and worthy, but they will at least keep the UK together until we finally get a real new reforming Thatcher, some time around 2030-35?

    Or the robots will kill us for the bantz long before then
    What's going on with his throat and his voice?

    It's like there's the voicebox of a twelve-year boy trying to get out.
    Yeah, the voice is weird

    On the upside, Starmer is quite ruthless and cunning. He has a genuine streak of clever political brutality. Which can be a very good thing. He may - ahem - surprise on the upside in that department

    Last time Sunak was in a competitive race to become PM he lost to a lettuce
    Oi! Less of that.

    Lettuce is good for you.

    Truss, however...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    “Deaths of despair” have risen something like 20% each year in the US since 2018.

    It’s very largely fentanyl which is now laced into almost every illicit substance, from cocaine to “adderall”.

    Even a small dose can cause respiratory arrest to the susceptible.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    Jonathan said:

    Let’s hope Labour do it. The odds are against them winning from 200seats, but they are in with a chance. A Tory win, after the mess they’ve made, would be catastrophic.

    If the Tories lose more than 50 seats, they are out. If NOC, I suspect another GE within 2 years that gives Starmer a majority. He may not be Blair but he could be Wilson.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    edited March 2023
    pigeon said:

    CatMan said:

    I hope you're all watching Panorama examining a certain policy instigated by Thatcher that might just have had a few tiny negative consequences

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001kk0h/panorama-whats-gone-wrong-with-our-housing

    "Richard Bilton investigates the problems Margaret Thatcher's right-to-buy policy is causing 40 years later, including the return of slum landlords"

    Nah, I've got the snooker on. But it's perfectly obvious that the state of the UK housing market is a train wreck, a significant brake on the entire economy and ruinous socially.
    It’s an absolute disaster.

    One small grain of hope is that - in theory - a lot of people don’t need to go into the office anymore, so they can work (and live) from Algarkirk or Albequerque.l
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    Phil said:

    Tres said:

    Off topic, but seeing this may help the UK avoid one of the worst mistakes the US has made, ever:
    "Life expectancy in the US by race, 1900-2019":
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Life_Expectancy_in_the_U.S._by_race_1900-2019.png

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_life_expectancy

    As you can see, life expectancy for both blacks and whites rose over those years, with some interuptions like World War II, and the gap between the two groups diminished, slowly.

    Until about 2010. And then drugs, particularly fentanyl, took their toll. And the steady increase in life expectancy stopped.

    We, as a nation, did not react well to this challenge. Others will differ, but I lay some of the blame for that failure on Barack Obama. Who should have learned from the crack epidemic of the 1980s.

    Just as I lay some of the blame for the high COVID toll in the US on Donald the Loser. Who could have learned from competent medical professionals.

    (There is good news, and another lesson, in the way life expectancy has increased for Hispanics, so that it is now well above that of whites.)

    it was the medical professionals who were dishing out fentanyl like they were M&Ms
    The Sackler family have a lot to answer for. They spent as much as it took to convince US medical professionals to prescribe Oxycontin to their patients & earnt $billions as a result.

    Somehow the UK missed out on their malign influence on the medical profession.

    There is a fantastic book called Empire of Pain by Patrick Radden Keefe which catalogues the opiate crisis and the attempt by the Sacklers to launder their reputations as patrons of the arts
    One thing I hadn’t realised is that, strictly speaking, the Sacklers are *Anglo-*-American.
    So the Brits don’t escape culpability completely.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,691
    CatMan said:

    I hope you're all watching Panorama examining a certain policy instigated by Thatcher that might just have had a few tiny negative consequences

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001kk0h/panorama-whats-gone-wrong-with-our-housing

    "Richard Bilton investigates the problems Margaret Thatcher's right-to-buy policy is causing 40 years later, including the return of slum landlords"

    Thatcher's legacy. Slums to slums in a lifetime.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Let’s hope Labour do it. The odds are against them winning from 200seats, but they are in with a chance. A Tory win, after the mess they’ve made, would be catastrophic.

    If the Tories lose more than 50 seats, they are out. If NOC, I suspect another GE within 2 years that gives Starmer a majority. He may not be Blair but he could be Wilson.
    If the Tories can party through covid, truss the economy into dust, sell what’s left to their mates and still scrape a win through some nasty, voter suppression, control of the media campaign we are truly doomed.

    Somehow the Tories have to lose.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    I think Starmer will win a “grudging” majority.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,217
    Jonathan said:

    Let’s hope Labour do it. The odds are against them winning from 200seats, but they are in with a chance. A Tory win, after the mess they’ve made, would be catastrophic.

    I’m not sure there’s much meaningful difference between a majority of 40-odd (or even less, given likely Lib Dem and assorted other support for a number of likely Labour bills), and a majority of 100+.

    What makes for a real landslide feeling on election night, the true source of drama, is the number of seats changing hands. If Labour are gaining 150-odd seats it’s certainly going to feel quite landslidy because every few seconds around 3am onwards the little red ticker will be flashing up saying “Labour gain north codswollop and sprinkleside”.

    Non-Tories are well overdue an exciting election night. I am fully expecting an underwhelming Lib Dem performance but still, just seeing waves of blue seats fall would be a tonic after 4 disappointing elections in a row (2017 being disappointing both because from 10pm it always looked like May would scrape enough to get through with the DUP and because the Labour leader was a disaster).

    In fact the last election where the narrative was entirely cheerful was 1997.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    CatMan said:

    I hope you're all watching Panorama examining a certain policy instigated by Thatcher that might just have had a few tiny negative consequences

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001kk0h/panorama-whats-gone-wrong-with-our-housing

    "Richard Bilton investigates the problems Margaret Thatcher's right-to-buy policy is causing 40 years later, including the return of slum landlords"

    Thatcher's legacy. Slums to slums in a lifetime.
    Too easy just to blame Thatcher.
    An entire generation is complicit.

    House prices started going mental from the late 90s onwards.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    ...

    CatMan said:

    I hope you're all watching Panorama examining a certain policy instigated by Thatcher that might just have had a few tiny negative consequences

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001kk0h/panorama-whats-gone-wrong-with-our-housing

    "Richard Bilton investigates the problems Margaret Thatcher's right-to-buy policy is causing 40 years later, including the return of slum landlords"

    Thatcher's legacy. Slums to slums in a lifetime.
    ITV news had a feature earlier of the multiple millions spent by LAs to industrial scale slum landlord companies each year. Millions of ratepayers taxes paid to immoral barstewards.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,217

    CatMan said:

    I hope you're all watching Panorama examining a certain policy instigated by Thatcher that might just have had a few tiny negative consequences

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001kk0h/panorama-whats-gone-wrong-with-our-housing

    "Richard Bilton investigates the problems Margaret Thatcher's right-to-buy policy is causing 40 years later, including the return of slum landlords"

    Thatcher's legacy. Slums to slums in a lifetime.
    Too easy just to blame Thatcher.
    An entire generation is complicit.

    House prices started going mental from the late 90s onwards.
    I didn’t watch it but understand it wasn’t that much about right to buy.

    Real issues have been lack of supply of new builds, lack of regional development, lack of regulation of landlords, artificially low interest rates and the British mentality (of which I’m as guilty as the next man) that a home is a trade-able financial asset.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929
    Sean_F said:

    Emerald said:

    Reform looks a tad high there.

    I'd say the Tories are on c.30%. Labour probably draw back to 40-42% in a GE.

    Question is whether the Tories can creep any closer.

    you are making the mistake of extrapolating a trend. The tories could just as easily fall back again.
    Anything is possible but I don't think they will.

    Sunak's competent government is rallying the base and Boris/Truss are a busted flush.
    In general, people don't hold hard times against the government, if they think the government is doing its best.

    Under Boris and Truss, the government was both corrupt and frivolous. Now, it's beginning to appear fairly competent.

    Sunak's ratings have shown a marked improvement, relative to Starmer's, with Redfield and Wilton.

    Within the population as a whole, a substantial number (especially in the Midlands and parts of the North) have done pretty well over the past 13 years.

    I still think time for a change wins out, in 2024, but I'm quite certain now, the government will be retaining 200+ seats.

    I'd favour Tissue Price to hold his seat.
    People in the midlands and the north have done pretty well over the last 13 years?

    I'm surprised by that but if you have the figures I'm prepared to listen. The cost of living clearly isn't as high up north as in the south east but the private sector is generally pretty weak.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443

    ...

    CatMan said:

    I hope you're all watching Panorama examining a certain policy instigated by Thatcher that might just have had a few tiny negative consequences

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001kk0h/panorama-whats-gone-wrong-with-our-housing

    "Richard Bilton investigates the problems Margaret Thatcher's right-to-buy policy is causing 40 years later, including the return of slum landlords"

    Thatcher's legacy. Slums to slums in a lifetime.
    ITV news had a feature earlier of the multiple millions spent by LAs to industrial scale slum landlord companies each year. Millions of ratepayers taxes paid to immoral barstewards.
    Quite possibly to criminals as well, who invested their ill-gotten gains in property.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    TimS said:

    Jonathan said:

    Let’s hope Labour do it. The odds are against them winning from 200seats, but they are in with a chance. A Tory win, after the mess they’ve made, would be catastrophic.

    I’m not sure there’s much meaningful difference between a majority of 40-odd (or even less, given likely Lib Dem and assorted other support for a number of likely Labour bills), and a majority of 100+.

    What makes for a real landslide feeling on election night, the true source of drama, is the number of seats changing hands. If Labour are gaining 150-odd seats it’s certainly going to feel quite landslidy because every few seconds around 3am onwards the little red ticker will be flashing up saying “Labour gain north codswollop and sprinkleside”.

    Non-Tories are well overdue an exciting election night. I am fully expecting an underwhelming Lib Dem performance but still, just seeing waves of blue seats fall would be a tonic after 4 disappointing elections in a row (2017 being disappointing both because from 10pm it always looked like May would scrape enough to get through with the DUP and because the Labour leader was a disaster).

    In fact the last election where the narrative was entirely cheerful was 1997.
    Ahead of the 1997 GE Labour had around 100 more seats than it currently holds. There are therefore a lot more potential gains, so I still see a 100+ majority as conceivable.

    And it’ll be mortgage increases that do for Sunak. There is a lot more pain to be felt by middle England before we get to October 2024.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401

    Sean_F said:

    Emerald said:

    Reform looks a tad high there.

    I'd say the Tories are on c.30%. Labour probably draw back to 40-42% in a GE.

    Question is whether the Tories can creep any closer.

    you are making the mistake of extrapolating a trend. The tories could just as easily fall back again.
    Anything is possible but I don't think they will.

    Sunak's competent government is rallying the base and Boris/Truss are a busted flush.
    In general, people don't hold hard times against the government, if they think the government is doing its best.

    Under Boris and Truss, the government was both corrupt and frivolous. Now, it's beginning to appear fairly competent.

    Sunak's ratings have shown a marked improvement, relative to Starmer's, with Redfield and Wilton.

    Within the population as a whole, a substantial number (especially in the Midlands and parts of the North) have done pretty well over the past 13 years.

    I still think time for a change wins out, in 2024, but I'm quite certain now, the government will be retaining 200+ seats.

    I'd favour Tissue Price to hold his seat.
    People in the midlands and the north have done pretty well over the last 13 years?

    I'm surprised by that but if you have the figures I'm prepared to listen. The cost of living clearly isn't as high up north as in the south east but the private sector is generally pretty weak.
    Also the notherners on the whole made far, far less unearned income from their houses. SO 'doing pretty well overr the past 13 years' is a pretty dodgy assessment.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited March 2023
    I also agree that, though boring and uncharismatic, SKS has a ruthless streak. I’ve been impressed by just how brutal and thorough his extirpation of Corbyn and Corbynism has been.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,443
    OT if you are going to the Olympics next year, les rozzers will be tracking you.

    French parliament says oui to AI surveillance for 2024 Paris Olympics
    Liberté, égalité, reconnaissance faciale for all

    https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/24/al_surveillance_french/

  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,217

    Sean_F said:

    Emerald said:

    Reform looks a tad high there.

    I'd say the Tories are on c.30%. Labour probably draw back to 40-42% in a GE.

    Question is whether the Tories can creep any closer.

    you are making the mistake of extrapolating a trend. The tories could just as easily fall back again.
    Anything is possible but I don't think they will.

    Sunak's competent government is rallying the base and Boris/Truss are a busted flush.
    In general, people don't hold hard times against the government, if they think the government is doing its best.

    Under Boris and Truss, the government was both corrupt and frivolous. Now, it's beginning to appear fairly competent.

    Sunak's ratings have shown a marked improvement, relative to Starmer's, with Redfield and Wilton.

    Within the population as a whole, a substantial number (especially in the Midlands and parts of the North) have done pretty well over the past 13 years.

    I still think time for a change wins out, in 2024, but I'm quite certain now, the government will be retaining 200+ seats.

    I'd favour Tissue Price to hold his seat.
    People in the midlands and the north have done pretty well over the last 13 years?

    I'm surprised by that but if you have the figures I'm prepared to listen. The cost of living clearly isn't as high up north as in the south east but the private sector is generally pretty weak.
    I think more accurately retired people have done pretty well, and children and working age people have done pretty badly, with incomes and quality of life indices flatlining.

    There are of course many more retired voters now there were 13 years ago, and the number continues to rise as the population ages. That’s one fact proponents of the “Tories are all dying out” theory forget.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    ydoethur said:

    For the first time, rode the new-ish electric train service from London St Pancras to Corby and back. Even in the off-peak, East Midlands Railway give you 8 coaches! I think the electrification of the Midland is also extending slowly towards Leicester.

    Saw one of those, a bi-mode at Lincoln. Handsome looking bit of kit, what's it like to ride on?
    No, my train was a pair of Class 360s, all-electric. Previously found on the stopping service to Heathrow (before Elizabeth Line), and on the Great Eastern as far as Ipswich. Obviously "cascaded" to EMR, but not too bad a ride to be fair.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168

    Phil said:

    Tres said:

    Off topic, but seeing this may help the UK avoid one of the worst mistakes the US has made, ever:
    "Life expectancy in the US by race, 1900-2019":
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Life_Expectancy_in_the_U.S._by_race_1900-2019.png

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_life_expectancy

    As you can see, life expectancy for both blacks and whites rose over those years, with some interuptions like World War II, and the gap between the two groups diminished, slowly.

    Until about 2010. And then drugs, particularly fentanyl, took their toll. And the steady increase in life expectancy stopped.

    We, as a nation, did not react well to this challenge. Others will differ, but I lay some of the blame for that failure on Barack Obama. Who should have learned from the crack epidemic of the 1980s.

    Just as I lay some of the blame for the high COVID toll in the US on Donald the Loser. Who could have learned from competent medical professionals.

    (There is good news, and another lesson, in the way life expectancy has increased for Hispanics, so that it is now well above that of whites.)

    it was the medical professionals who were dishing out fentanyl like they were M&Ms
    The Sackler family have a lot to answer for. They spent as much as it took to convince US medical professionals to prescribe Oxycontin to their patients & earnt $billions as a result.

    Somehow the UK missed out on their malign influence on the medical profession.

    There is a fantastic book called Empire of Pain by Patrick Radden Keefe which catalogues the opiate crisis and the attempt by the Sacklers to launder their reputations as patrons of the arts
    One thing I hadn’t realised is that, strictly speaking, the Sacklers are *Anglo-*-American.
    So the Brits don’t escape culpability completely.
    Indeed we don't.
    Nan Goldin has been a complete mensch (or female equivalent) on this, will try hard to catch 'All the Beauty and the Bloodshed' on her life.

    'Sackler Trust gave more than £14m to UK public bodies in 2020'

    https://tinyurl.com/57pxk55e
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,752
    If I was forced to predict a result I'd say Labour winning a majority of circa 30 to 40. Not a bad result from where they started but probably not quite what might have been expected from the polling a year or so out.

    Short of another major government screw-up Sunak is currently doing enough to put Boris and Truss into bad memory territory and so there'll be some sort of reversion to the mean from that, particularly when push comes to shove in the polling booth.

    Labour picking up a few more seats in Scotland (partly because they probably would have done anyway and partly because Humza Yousaf will fail to enthuse SNP voters) won't quite be the reason for victory but it will certainly be part of the narrative.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840
    edited March 2023

    CatMan said:

    I hope you're all watching Panorama examining a certain policy instigated by Thatcher that might just have had a few tiny negative consequences

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001kk0h/panorama-whats-gone-wrong-with-our-housing

    "Richard Bilton investigates the problems Margaret Thatcher's right-to-buy policy is causing 40 years later, including the return of slum landlords"

    Thatcher's legacy. Slums to slums in a lifetime.
    Too easy just to blame Thatcher.
    An entire generation is complicit.

    House prices started going mental from the late 90s onwards.
    Oh absolutely, the Boomers got lucky pretty much all the way through life: a comprehensive welfare state when they were young, a mass giveaway of council housing at knockdown prices when they were having their families, a massive escalation in asset values, and now the ridiculous and seemingly immovable triple lock. This, from a piece decrying the latter (which is well worth reading right through BTW):

    It’s important, of course, to take care of the vulnerable. But the triple lock hasn’t just insulated pensioners from the economic realities of austerity and Covid. It has actually made them measurably richer. Far beyond simply entrenching intergenerational inequality, the triple lock is now more comparable to a direct transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. One in four pensioners is a millionaire, whilst the median pensioner, as John Oxley writes, ‘already has more disposable income than the median worker, and is likely to have greater wealth’.

    ...

    The sheer weight of benefits directed to today’s pensioners is scarcely creditable. Older generations have more or less mortgaged the welfare state to the hilt. As Duncan Robinson notes in The Economist:

    On average someone born in 1956 will pay about £940,000 in tax throughout their life. But they are forecast to receive state benefits amounting to about £1.2m, or £291,000 net. Someone born in 1996 will enjoy less than half of that figure: a fresh-faced 27-year-old today will receive barely more than someone born in 1931, about a decade before the term ‘welfare state’ was first popularised.


    https://capx.co/brits-should-be-as-angry-as-the-french-about-pensions-but-for-different-reasons/

    Practically everything is rigged in favour of the huge cohort of well-to-do elderly homeowners. And a prediction: Labour will leave things exactly as they are in this respect. Watch.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177

    Phil said:

    Tres said:

    Off topic, but seeing this may help the UK avoid one of the worst mistakes the US has made, ever:
    "Life expectancy in the US by race, 1900-2019":
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Life_Expectancy_in_the_U.S._by_race_1900-2019.png

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_life_expectancy

    As you can see, life expectancy for both blacks and whites rose over those years, with some interuptions like World War II, and the gap between the two groups diminished, slowly.

    Until about 2010. And then drugs, particularly fentanyl, took their toll. And the steady increase in life expectancy stopped.

    We, as a nation, did not react well to this challenge. Others will differ, but I lay some of the blame for that failure on Barack Obama. Who should have learned from the crack epidemic of the 1980s.

    Just as I lay some of the blame for the high COVID toll in the US on Donald the Loser. Who could have learned from competent medical professionals.

    (There is good news, and another lesson, in the way life expectancy has increased for Hispanics, so that it is now well above that of whites.)

    it was the medical professionals who were dishing out fentanyl like they were M&Ms
    The Sackler family have a lot to answer for. They spent as much as it took to convince US medical professionals to prescribe Oxycontin to their patients & earnt $billions as a result.

    Somehow the UK missed out on their malign influence on the medical profession.

    There is a fantastic book called Empire of Pain by Patrick Radden Keefe which catalogues the opiate crisis and the attempt by the Sacklers to launder their reputations as patrons of the arts
    One thing I hadn’t realised is that, strictly speaking, the Sacklers are *Anglo-*-American.
    So the Brits don’t escape culpability completely.
    Indeed we don't.
    Nan Goldin has been a complete mensch (or female equivalent) on this, will try hard to catch 'All the Beauty and the Bloodshed' on her life.

    'Sackler Trust gave more than £14m to UK public bodies in 2020'

    https://tinyurl.com/57pxk55e
    And there’s been little interest in even taking their name off things. Such as the Sackler Bridge in Kew Gardens…
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    edited March 2023
    pigeon said:

    CatMan said:

    I hope you're all watching Panorama examining a certain policy instigated by Thatcher that might just have had a few tiny negative consequences

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001kk0h/panorama-whats-gone-wrong-with-our-housing

    "Richard Bilton investigates the problems Margaret Thatcher's right-to-buy policy is causing 40 years later, including the return of slum landlords"

    Thatcher's legacy. Slums to slums in a lifetime.
    Too easy just to blame Thatcher.
    An entire generation is complicit.

    House prices started going mental from the late 90s onwards.
    Oh absolutely, the Boomers got lucky pretty much all the way through life: a comprehensive welfare state when they were young, a mass giveaway of council housing at knockdown prices when they were having their families, a massive escalation in asset values, and now the ridiculous and seemingly immovable triple lock. This, from a piece decrying the latter (which is well worth reading right through BTW):

    It’s important, of course, to take care of the vulnerable. But the triple lock hasn’t just insulated pensioners from the economic realities of austerity and Covid. It has actually made them measurably richer. Far beyond simply entrenching intergenerational inequality, the triple lock is now more comparable to a direct transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. One in four pensioners is a millionaire, whilst the median pensioner, as John Oxley writes, ‘already has more disposable income than the median worker, and is likely to have greater wealth’.

    ...

    The sheer weight of benefits directed to today’s pensioners is scarcely creditable. Older generations have more or less mortgaged the welfare state to the hilt. As Duncan Robinson notes in The Economist:

    On average someone born in 1956 will pay about £940,000 in tax throughout their life. But they are forecast to receive state benefits amounting to about £1.2m, or £291,000 net. Someone born in 1996 will enjoy less than half of that figure: a fresh-faced 27-year-old today will receive barely more than someone born in 1931, about a decade before the term ‘welfare state’ was first popularised.


    https://capx.co/brits-should-be-as-angry-as-the-french-about-pensions-but-for-different-reasons/

    Practically everything is rigged in favour of the huge cohort of well-to-do elderly homeowners. And a prediction: Labour will leave things exactly as they are in this respect. Watch.
    On your last point/prediction, absolutely.

    The entire British system, highly centralised of course, is utterly in hock to “well-to-do, elderly homeowners”. Labour can’t address that without electoral annihilation.

    The USA, which faces similar demographics, has the saving grace of not being so centralised. If San Francisco nimbyises itself into stagnation, there is always Austin etc.

    I am very dismal on British prospects.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    I think Starmer will win a “grudging” majority.

    "Grudging" are clearly a majority on PB at all times.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401

    Phil said:

    Tres said:

    Off topic, but seeing this may help the UK avoid one of the worst mistakes the US has made, ever:
    "Life expectancy in the US by race, 1900-2019":
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Life_Expectancy_in_the_U.S._by_race_1900-2019.png

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_life_expectancy

    As you can see, life expectancy for both blacks and whites rose over those years, with some interuptions like World War II, and the gap between the two groups diminished, slowly.

    Until about 2010. And then drugs, particularly fentanyl, took their toll. And the steady increase in life expectancy stopped.

    We, as a nation, did not react well to this challenge. Others will differ, but I lay some of the blame for that failure on Barack Obama. Who should have learned from the crack epidemic of the 1980s.

    Just as I lay some of the blame for the high COVID toll in the US on Donald the Loser. Who could have learned from competent medical professionals.

    (There is good news, and another lesson, in the way life expectancy has increased for Hispanics, so that it is now well above that of whites.)

    it was the medical professionals who were dishing out fentanyl like they were M&Ms
    The Sackler family have a lot to answer for. They spent as much as it took to convince US medical professionals to prescribe Oxycontin to their patients & earnt $billions as a result.

    Somehow the UK missed out on their malign influence on the medical profession.

    There is a fantastic book called Empire of Pain by Patrick Radden Keefe which catalogues the opiate crisis and the attempt by the Sacklers to launder their reputations as patrons of the arts
    One thing I hadn’t realised is that, strictly speaking, the Sacklers are *Anglo-*-American.
    So the Brits don’t escape culpability completely.
    Indeed we don't.
    Nan Goldin has been a complete mensch (or female equivalent) on this, will try hard to catch 'All the Beauty and the Bloodshed' on her life.

    'Sackler Trust gave more than £14m to UK public bodies in 2020'

    https://tinyurl.com/57pxk55e
    And there’s been little interest in even taking their name off things. Such as the Sackler Bridge in Kew Gardens…
    Not sure about that:

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2022/oct/01/campaigners-celebrate-as-va-severs-sackler-links-over-opioids-cash

    https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/mar/25/british-museum-removes-sackler-family-name-from-galleries
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843
    Poll bounce.. with taxes going up.. I don't think so.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281
    CatMan said:

    I hope you're all watching Panorama examining a certain policy instigated by Thatcher that might just have had a few tiny negative consequences

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001kk0h/panorama-whats-gone-wrong-with-our-housing

    "Richard Bilton investigates the problems Margaret Thatcher's right-to-buy policy is causing 40 years later, including the return of slum landlords"

    There would have been nothing wrong with the policy - had they recycled the proceeds back into housing. Indeed it would have been brilliant.

    But she decided that central government should effectively nick them.

    A massive step towards the evisceration of local government, and the toxifying of housing.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,843

    ydoethur said:

    For the first time, rode the new-ish electric train service from London St Pancras to Corby and back. Even in the off-peak, East Midlands Railway give you 8 coaches! I think the electrification of the Midland is also extending slowly towards Leicester.

    Saw one of those, a bi-mode at Lincoln. Handsome looking bit of kit, what's it like to ride on?
    No, my train was a pair of Class 360s, all-electric. Previously found on the stopping service to Heathrow (before Elizabeth Line), and on the Great Eastern as far as Ipswich. Obviously "cascaded" to EMR, but not too bad a ride to be fair.
    Sunil have you ridden from Ryde St John's onto the Pier.?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993
    Evening all 😊

    As we all expected, last week’s Deltapoll proved a little over-exciting for some of the Conservatives but a 5-point fall to 30% is more a reversion to the herd than any serious decline or the end of the Sunak honeymoon
    .
    Tonight’s Redfield & Wilton has little change from last week with Labour’s lead easing from 21 to 19 and but the background questions are actually decent for the Conservatives.

    The Sunak honeymoon may be illusory but Starmer’s approval numbers in the R&W poll must be worrying with a big fall this week though he remains preferred PM over Sunk but the gap is steadily closing and if I were Labour that would be more of concern. Once again, it’s less people are warming to Sunak than they are cooling on Starmer.

    Looking at the R&W data tables, Labour leads 40-24 mong all likely voters, but the Conservatives lead 36-32 among the over 65 age group. The 2019 Conservative vote splits 57% Conservative, 17% Labour, 12% Reform and 11% Don’t Know. From recollection, a lower DK figure than we’ve seen but both a higher Reform figure and a higher retention number. To be fair, the 17% going to Labour represents 7.5% of the entire electorate so it’s not a small number of actual voters.

    I follow the R&W England sub sample – this week Labour have 46%, Conservative 29%, Liberal Democrat 12%, Reform 8% and Green 4%. The Conservatives won England 47-34 in 2019 so the swing in tonight’s poll is 15% from Conservative to Labour while the swing from Conservative to Liberal Democrat is 9%.

    This would mean the 193rd most marginal Conservative seat would fall on a straight line UNS – R&W no longer ask about tactical voting and some of the regional sub samples look a little odd but putting them all into a single England number may or may not be of any help.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755
    Mosquitos: one hopes this is tied to more effective control measures against dengue and malaria. If it’s the same in uninhabited swamps then I guess not. And obvs not in an Essex office car park
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I am entirely convinced Labour will win a majority in 2024. I am no longer expecting an extinction level event for the Tories. Sunak is turning out to be quite competent and not embarrassing, and he's even solving a few problems here and there. Enough to save the Tories from the apocalypse

    Britain is also looking less of a unique basket case than it was, what with France in flames, and Scottish indy receding into nowhere. But that in turn means Starmer will probably win a handy number of Scottish seats

    Starmer will get a majority of 50-100?

    Will Starmer in a campaign fall as flat as May?
    He is quite monumentally boring. I find it genuinely hard to listen to him for more than a minute or two and then something in my soul starts dying. Christ knows how his wife copes

    However I reckon this is priced in. We all know he is stupefyingly dull. It won't be a surprise. And it's not like Sunak has Boris levels of brio and charm. TMay's spectrumy woodenness WAS something of a surprise in her campaign, we all thought she was solid and tedious and competent, but it turned out she was something much more offputting, and shrill, and brittle, and she had madly bad policy notions which she then U-turned immediately. Starmer won't do any of that

    Labour's problems will start the day after they win. They have zero ideas, Reeves is a void, there's no one else, they will be Woke and worthy, but they will at least keep the UK together until we finally get a real new reforming Thatcher, some time around 2030-35?

    Or the robots will kill us for the bantz long before then
    What's going on with his throat and his voice?

    It's like there's the voicebox of a twelve-year boy trying to get out.
    Probably fixable (I suggested some time back he ought to get voice coaching).
    It’s overly nasal vocalisation, rather than anything wrong with his larynx - try imitating him; it’s dead easy to do.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,281

    CatMan said:

    I hope you're all watching Panorama examining a certain policy instigated by Thatcher that might just have had a few tiny negative consequences

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001kk0h/panorama-whats-gone-wrong-with-our-housing

    "Richard Bilton investigates the problems Margaret Thatcher's right-to-buy policy is causing 40 years later, including the return of slum landlords"

    Thatcher's legacy. Slums to slums in a lifetime.
    Too easy just to blame Thatcher.
    An entire generation is complicit.

    House prices started going mental from the late 90s onwards.
    I wouldn’t - but she started the rolling mess.
    Successive governments have ignored the problems, though, as they became more difficult to fix.
  • TimS said:

    Jonathan said:

    Let’s hope Labour do it. The odds are against them winning from 200seats, but they are in with a chance. A Tory win, after the mess they’ve made, would be catastrophic.

    I’m not sure there’s much meaningful difference between a majority of 40-odd (or even less, given likely Lib Dem and assorted other support for a number of likely Labour bills), and a majority of 100+.

    What makes for a real landslide feeling on election night, the true source of drama, is the number of seats changing hands. If Labour are gaining 150-odd seats it’s certainly going to feel quite landslidy because every few seconds around 3am onwards the little red ticker will be flashing up saying “Labour gain north codswollop and sprinkleside”.

    Non-Tories are well overdue an exciting election night. I am fully expecting an underwhelming Lib Dem performance but still, just seeing waves of blue seats fall would be a tonic after 4 disappointing elections in a row (2017 being disappointing both because from 10pm it always looked like May would scrape enough to get through with the DUP and because the Labour leader was a disaster).

    In fact the last election where the narrative was entirely cheerful was 1997.
    There are probably 15 months to go before an election and Sunak has already pulled back the leader deficit, which we have been told before is a more accurate predictor of GEs.

    SKS' simple problem is that he doesn't inspire. I read his New Statesman piece and it's the same sort of vacuous slogans with little about what it means: Ok, you will produce green energy. Fine, but unless we are going to become Norway Mark 2 and export a hell of a lot of the stuff, green energy doesn't by itself produce much in the way of growth. His other policies are equally vacuous.

    My prediction - and mark it down here folks - is the Conservatives will scrap a low (less than 20) majority.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840

    pigeon said:

    CatMan said:

    I hope you're all watching Panorama examining a certain policy instigated by Thatcher that might just have had a few tiny negative consequences

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001kk0h/panorama-whats-gone-wrong-with-our-housing

    "Richard Bilton investigates the problems Margaret Thatcher's right-to-buy policy is causing 40 years later, including the return of slum landlords"

    Thatcher's legacy. Slums to slums in a lifetime.
    Too easy just to blame Thatcher.
    An entire generation is complicit.

    House prices started going mental from the late 90s onwards.
    Oh absolutely, the Boomers got lucky pretty much all the way through life: a comprehensive welfare state when they were young, a mass giveaway of council housing at knockdown prices when they were having their families, a massive escalation in asset values, and now the ridiculous and seemingly immovable triple lock. This, from a piece decrying the latter (which is well worth reading right through BTW):

    It’s important, of course, to take care of the vulnerable. But the triple lock hasn’t just insulated pensioners from the economic realities of austerity and Covid. It has actually made them measurably richer. Far beyond simply entrenching intergenerational inequality, the triple lock is now more comparable to a direct transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. One in four pensioners is a millionaire, whilst the median pensioner, as John Oxley writes, ‘already has more disposable income than the median worker, and is likely to have greater wealth’.

    ...

    The sheer weight of benefits directed to today’s pensioners is scarcely creditable. Older generations have more or less mortgaged the welfare state to the hilt. As Duncan Robinson notes in The Economist:

    On average someone born in 1956 will pay about £940,000 in tax throughout their life. But they are forecast to receive state benefits amounting to about £1.2m, or £291,000 net. Someone born in 1996 will enjoy less than half of that figure: a fresh-faced 27-year-old today will receive barely more than someone born in 1931, about a decade before the term ‘welfare state’ was first popularised.


    https://capx.co/brits-should-be-as-angry-as-the-french-about-pensions-but-for-different-reasons/

    Practically everything is rigged in favour of the huge cohort of well-to-do elderly homeowners. And a prediction: Labour will leave things exactly as they are in this respect. Watch.
    On your last point/prediction, absolutely.

    The entire British system, highly centralised of course, is utterly in hock to “well-to-do, elderly homeowners”. Labour can’t address that without electoral annihilation.

    The USA, which faces similar demographics, has the saving grace of not being so centralised. If San Francisco nimbyises itself into stagnation, there is always Austin etc.

    I am very dismal on British prospects.
    I'll make another prediction: this gargantuan racket, in which the young can barely afford to live, whilst increasingly large chunks of their pathetic wages are syphoned off for old people to spend on cruises to Madeira and buying better food for their dogs than the poor can afford for their children, will last for about another twenty years. At which juncture, the nation will find itself bankrupt, and spending both on health and social care and on the state pension will collapse.

    I'm confident of the timescale because I am due to retire in about another twenty years' time. It has this depressing feeling of inevitability about it.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Think back into the depths of your memories for the endless debates between Truss and Sunak. What exactly in that campaign marked him out as a winner in a two horse race? Because I didn’t see it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    ydoethur said:

    For the first time, rode the new-ish electric train service from London St Pancras to Corby and back. Even in the off-peak, East Midlands Railway give you 8 coaches! I think the electrification of the Midland is also extending slowly towards Leicester.

    Saw one of those, a bi-mode at Lincoln. Handsome looking bit of kit, what's it like to ride on?
    No, my train was a pair of Class 360s, all-electric. Previously found on the stopping service to Heathrow (before Elizabeth Line), and on the Great Eastern as far as Ipswich. Obviously "cascaded" to EMR, but not too bad a ride to be fair.
    Sunil have you ridden from Ryde St John's onto the Pier.?
    Yes, I did, back in 2016.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,147
    DougSeal said:

    Think back into the depths of your memories for the endless debates between Truss and Sunak. What exactly in that campaign marked him out as a winner in a two horse race? Because I didn’t see it.

    Though that was pitching to a rather niche audience, not the general public.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,476
    Emerald said:

    ohnotnow said:

    FPT (sorry)

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Since 1980 about 45% of insect species have become extinct says Radio 4.
    If true that is quite an astonishing stat.
    Puts all other issues into perspective.

    That is horrific. Probably rain-forest heavy in the extinction stakes, but we aren't covering ourselves in glory in Europe.
    This is pure anecdote, but in my travels in the last two years I have noticed a remarkable absence of mosquitoes: everywhere

    From the Mediterranean to Vietnam, from Bangkok to Louisiana, from Montenegro to Cambodia. Places where you would normally expect to face real issues with mosquitoes, I have barely been bitten at all

    Is it sheer coincidence? Of course in some ways it's very nice, mossies are a fucking nightmare, but in other ways it is apocalyptic, without insects the global ecosystem will collapse very fast
    I've been watching (as an ex-smoker and current vaper) from the sunny corner of my workplace carpark the dramatic decline in the midge numbers.

    Over about 20 years it's gone from 'jeez - not going near that corner!' to 'oh! look! a midge! how sweet!'.

    Really, really very noticeable.
    think it may be something to do with the 5g rollout.
    So what’s your view on autism? 5G or vaccines?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Sean_F said:

    Emerald said:

    Reform looks a tad high there.

    I'd say the Tories are on c.30%. Labour probably draw back to 40-42% in a GE.

    Question is whether the Tories can creep any closer.

    you are making the mistake of extrapolating a trend. The tories could just as easily fall back again.
    Anything is possible but I don't think they will.

    Sunak's competent government is rallying the base and Boris/Truss are a busted flush.
    In general, people don't hold hard times against the government, if they think the government is doing its best.

    Under Boris and Truss, the government was both corrupt and frivolous. Now, it's beginning to appear fairly competent.

    Sunak's ratings have shown a marked improvement, relative to Starmer's, with Redfield and Wilton.

    Within the population as a whole, a substantial number (especially in the Midlands and parts of the North) have done pretty well over the past 13 years.

    I still think time for a change wins out, in 2024, but I'm quite certain now, the government will be retaining 200+ seats.

    I'd favour Tissue Price to hold his seat.
    I'm strongly warming to Sunak. He's the size of an anorexic bipedal weasel, he's annoyingly rich, his wife was a non dom, he isn't full of exciting ideas, and yet.... after so many years of Borisian madness or Etonian mediocrity to Truss-May OMG, he seems weirdly refreshing

    I can now see myself voting for Sunak's party, over my local MP, Sir Kir Royale
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    Think back into the depths of your memories for the endless debates between Truss and Sunak. What exactly in that campaign marked him out as a winner in a two horse race? Because I didn’t see it.

    Though that was pitching to a rather niche audience, not the general public.
    Quite. Britain ≠ a few thousand reactionary right-wing octogenarian gits. Although with many of the policy priorities of our dismal politicians you might well think that it was.
This discussion has been closed.