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The Tories continue to struggle to find attack lines against Starmer – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,219
edited March 2023 in General
imageThe Tories continue to struggle to find attack lines against Starmer – politicalbetting.com

Today there has seen a lot of what appears to be confected outrage by many Conservatives over the decision by Keir Starmer to appoint Sue Gray as his chief of staff. It was Gray, the former senior civil servant who carried out the investigation following the reports of lockdown breaking by Boris Johnson.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Twenty-first century "True" Tories are a one-note wonder?

    With their one note being played on a leaky kazoooooooo!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,409
    Second. Especially appropriate after reading about whgat seems to be the second most expensive train in the known galaxy, excepting the cloudhavens of Alpha Centauri, and of course the abysses of London.

    In Luton.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/mar/03/luton-dart-the-most-expensive-train-in-britain-opens-for-business
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,872
    FPT, Michael Crick on Sue Grey:

    https://archive.ph/7BIzw
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Catchy title

    I’m very excited to share the cover of my book, WHY IS THIS LYING BASTARD LYING TO ME? It's about truth & lies on political TV from Thatcher to Sunak and everything in between.

    Warning: may contain jokes.


    https://twitter.com/RobBurl/status/1631339393393860612?cxt=HHwWiIC9tZ-i16MtAAAA
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,872
    edited March 2023
    (deleted, because wrong)
  • Starmer is good at politics, Tories seem incapable or unwilling to accept this - and that is why they are unable to beat him.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010
    Carnyx said:

    Second. Especially appropriate after reading about whgat seems to be the second most expensive train in the known galaxy, excepting the cloudhavens of Alpha Centauri, and of course the abysses of London.

    In Luton.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/mar/03/luton-dart-the-most-expensive-train-in-britain-opens-for-business

    I've been on lots of trains that cost more than £4.90...
  • Omnisis is also showing a small uptick for the conservatives. 26% (+2)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
  • Ambulance strikes called off after offer of talks from the government
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,409
    carnforth said:

    FPT, Michael Crick on Sue Grey:

    https://archive.ph/7BIzw

    This also in the Staggers and also worth a look. Though the ending is a bit bleak.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/labour/2023/03/weaponising-sue-gray-labour-affiliation-will-not-end-well-for-the-tories

    'Sunak may choose to block the appointment, but that may not be wise. Firstly, it would bring the partygate row back into public discussion. Sunak somehow managed to escape the affair virtually unscathed, despite receiving a police fine. The Tories also have a famously unclean slate when it comes to bringing their friends into high places, with questions over the integrity of multiple public appointments, including the BBC chairman Richard Sharp and the former Test and Trace chief Dido Harding. Accusing Labour of corruption would open the Conservatives to similar scrutiny.

    Regardless of ACOBA’s findings, it looks unlikely this row will settle anytime soon. The Conservatives have found a potential weakness in the partygate narrative and they will try to exploit it. Meanwhile, Sue Gray is destined to have the loneliest leaving do Westminster has ever seen.'
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,409
    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    Second. Especially appropriate after reading about whgat seems to be the second most expensive train in the known galaxy, excepting the cloudhavens of Alpha Centauri, and of course the abysses of London.

    In Luton.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/mar/03/luton-dart-the-most-expensive-train-in-britain-opens-for-business

    I've been on lots of trains that cost more than £4.90...
    Per kilometre or lightyear or whatever ...?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010
    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    Second. Especially appropriate after reading about whgat seems to be the second most expensive train in the known galaxy, excepting the cloudhavens of Alpha Centauri, and of course the abysses of London.

    In Luton.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/mar/03/luton-dart-the-most-expensive-train-in-britain-opens-for-business

    I've been on lots of trains that cost more than £4.90...
    Per kilometre or lightyear or whatever ...?
    Per journey, which is at least a somewhat meaningful metric...
  • Starmer is beige which is why it's difficult to land a blow on him. However for me, his attempts to frustrate the democratic result of the Brexit referendum make him unfit for high office.
  • Starmer is good at politics, Tories seem incapable or unwilling to accept this - and that is why they are unable to beat him.

    * thus far I should say
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Who else finds it amusing, that Conservatives (so-called) are obsessed (when not in full-blown anti-woke mode) in shouting the allegedly dastardly deeds of Keir Starmer from the roof-tops? When their OWN record of scandal, fraud, maladministration, misappropriation, skullduggery and other crimes of commission and omission far too numerous to chronicle here, would sink the Good Ship Lollipop on a calm sea. Let alone the CUP garbage scow in choppy waters.
  • Starmer is beige which is why it's difficult to land a blow on him. However for me, his attempts to frustrate the democratic result of the Brexit referendum make him unfit for high office.

    Boris Johnson was so committed to Leave he wrote two columns. And then he lied and was fined in office.

    We've already had a PM unfit for office, Starmer looks like Jesus in comparison.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,388

    Omnisis is also showing a small uptick for the conservatives. 26% (+2)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Swingback is probably underway and will gradually continue until Election 24.

    However the gap between Con and Lab is now so large that nothing can prevent Labour winning a small majority at the next election...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,570

    Omnisis is also showing a small uptick for the conservatives. 26% (+2)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Yes, and Labour 3 down, so lead on 19. Seems consistent with the others showing a lead around 20.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,409

    Who else finds it amusing, that Conservatives (so-called) are obsessed (when not in full-blown anti-woke mode) in shouting the allegedly dastardly deeds of Keir Starmer from the roof-tops? When their OWN record of scandal, fraud, maladministration, misappropriation, skullduggery and other crimes of commission and omission far too numerous to chronicle here, would sink the Good Ship Lollipop on a calm sea. Let alone the CUP garbage scow in choppy waters.

    Wouldn't be called a garbage scow on this side of the pond. Les mots justes = gash barge.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited March 2023

    @TLDRNewsUK
    🇦🇷 Argentina has told the UK that it wants to start new talks over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and has pulled out of a 2016 cooperation pact.


    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1631677172065738753

    Could a Sunak Falklands moment save his chances of reelection?

    Bloody hell not again. The Argentinians need to give this a rest.
    Of course national fervour doesn't make sense, we have our own examples of that, but the Argentinian passion on this issue really doesn't seem to make sense to me when it's noted their claim to the islands is a rather technical one based on inheriting rights from former Spanish sovereignty, and talk about natives who don't exist. Yes there are other complexities, but the point being it's actually a rather arcane legal dispute, yet it's talked about in terms of colonialism as if someone seized Buenos Aires 2 years ago.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,409
    kle4 said:

    @TLDRNewsUK
    🇦🇷 Argentina has told the UK that it wants to start new talks over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and has pulled out of a 2016 cooperation pact.


    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1631677172065738753

    Could a Sunak Falklands moment save his chances of reelection?

    Bloody hell not again. The Argentinians need to give this a rest.
    Of course national fervour doesn't make sense, we have our own examples of that, but the Argentinian passion on this issue really doesn't seem to make sense to me when it's noted their claim to the islands is a rather technical one based on inheriting rights from former Spanish sovereignty, and talk about natives who don't exist. Yes there are other complexities, but the point being it's actually a rather arcane legal dispute, yet it's talked about in terms of colonialism as if someone seized Buenos Aires 2 years ago.
    Make it 221 years ago ...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    GIN1138 said:

    Omnisis is also showing a small uptick for the conservatives. 26% (+2)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Swingback is probably underway and will gradually continue until Election 24.

    However the gap between Con and Lab is now so large that nothing can prevent Labour winning a small majority at the next election...
    Except winning a large majority.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Starmer is beige which is why it's difficult to land a blow on him. However for me, his attempts to frustrate the democratic result of the Brexit referendum make him unfit for high office.

    Boris Johnson was so committed to Leave he wrote two columns. And then he lied and was fined in office.

    We've already had a PM unfit for office, Starmer looks like Jesus in comparison.
    Starmer seems a decent enough propsect, not sure you're doing him favours comparing him to Jesus!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,649
    I won’t respond to a particular reply I got to my post in the last thread, but to all of them.

    No. You are wrong. The attempt to appoint Gray was a Starmer gimmick that has backfired. There’s so many decent people for the role, so many perfect Gray’s out there, but in Starmer’s mind it had to be this one in order to say: we are different, we will be different. So it’s a gimmicky way of putting a team together. A gimmicky way of thinking. A mistake to have such a massive bete noir in your back room staff causing distraction.

    Daft for a football manager to go away to a struggling club and wind up and excite their deflated players and fans, like Starmer clearly has.

    No matter how you spin it, it is as clear and as big a mistake by Starmer this week as Rishi made selling the benefits of the EU Single Market in order to buy support for his deal. They both have had very poor weeks in the longer setting of things. Mistakes that will come back to haunt them.

    but it is interesting how marmite Johnson makes things that shouldn’t be so entrenched turn INSTANTLY into trench warfare, by his mere presence somewhere in it. The amount of political cartoons that has Rishi bettering Boris in numerous visual ways over the NI agreement for example, are utter bollocks, because how we analyse what Rishi government and EU are cooking up together there, for now and into the future, has absolutely nothing to do with Boris. There’s far more importance to it than putting one over on Boris. Soon as Boris name is mentioned, instantly there’s two lines of tanks facing each other, between them a heavily mined DMZ.

    Some people have lost all objectively discussing politics due to possessing an immature attitude towards Boris Johnson. Allowing themselves to be distracted by personality and psycho drama. They all need to snap out of it, it’s sadly making them look and sound daft.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    edited March 2023

    Who else finds it amusing, that Conservatives (so-called) are obsessed (when not in full-blown anti-woke mode) in shouting the allegedly dastardly deeds of Keir Starmer from the roof-tops? When their OWN record of scandal, fraud, maladministration, misappropriation, skullduggery and other crimes of commission and omission far too numerous to chronicle here, would sink the Good Ship Lollipop on a calm sea. Let alone the CUP garbage scow in choppy waters.

    Keir Starmer mired in "appoints notoriously tough and independent minded woman as chief of staff' scandal!
  • https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1631690590176813057

    Nadine Dorries speaking total sense. Sadly this was in the past.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1631690590176813057

    Nadine Dorries speaking total sense. Sadly this was in the past.

    The facts have changed however. Now we know that she supports Labour sufficiently to take a major position in the party.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,409

    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1631690590176813057

    Nadine Dorries speaking total sense. Sadly this was in the past.

    Still, an excellent clip. No need to waste time interviewing her again on the Ms Gray matter.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    Omnisis is also showing a small uptick for the conservatives. 26% (+2)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Small Tory gain from RefUK as well as Labour there
  • WillG said:

    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1631690590176813057

    Nadine Dorries speaking total sense. Sadly this was in the past.

    The facts have changed however. Now we know that she supports Labour sufficiently to take a major position in the party.
    Just like Dan Rosenfeld then?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited March 2023
    WillG said:

    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1631690590176813057

    Nadine Dorries speaking total sense. Sadly this was in the past.

    The facts have changed however. Now we know that she supports Labour sufficiently to take a major position in the party.
    That doesn't mean she could not perform her job in an independent fashion. She's worked in goverment for years and apparently no one had any reason to suspect there was a Labour supporter in their midst.

    Yes, it's unnecessarily awkward timing, but the attempt to say if she supports Labour she must be bent, which whatever is claimed is the essence of the allegation, is not well made. If they felt her work was excellent and independent before, then clearly she did perform her role independently since they had no reason to believe she stitched them up.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679

    I won’t respond to a particular reply I got to my post in the last thread, but to all of them.

    No. You are wrong. The attempt to appoint Gray was a Starmer gimmick that has backfired. There’s so many decent people for the role, so many perfect Gray’s out there, but in Starmer’s mind it had to be this one in order to say: we are different, we will be different. So it’s a gimmicky way of putting a team together. A gimmicky way of thinking. A mistake to have such a massive bete noir in your back room staff causing distraction.

    Daft for a football manager to go away to a struggling club and wind up and excite their deflated players and fans, like Starmer clearly has.

    No matter how you spin it, it is as clear and as big a mistake by Starmer this week as Rishi made selling the benefits of the EU Single Market in order to buy support for his deal. They both have had very poor weeks in the longer setting of things. Mistakes that will come back to haunt them.

    but it is interesting how marmite Johnson makes things that shouldn’t be so entrenched turn INSTANTLY into trench warfare, by his mere presence somewhere in it. The amount of political cartoons that has Rishi bettering Boris in numerous visual ways over the NI agreement for example, are utter bollocks, because how we analyse what Rishi government and EU are cooking up together there, for now and into the future, has absolutely nothing to do with Boris. There’s far more importance to it than putting one over on Boris. Soon as Boris name is mentioned, instantly there’s two lines of tanks facing each other, between them a heavily mined DMZ.

    Some people have lost all objectively discussing politics due to possessing an immature attitude towards Boris Johnson. Allowing themselves to be distracted by personality and psycho drama. They all need to snap out of it, it’s sadly making them look and sound daft.

    Disagree (mostly) but quite an interesting post.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    kle4 said:

    @TLDRNewsUK
    🇦🇷 Argentina has told the UK that it wants to start new talks over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and has pulled out of a 2016 cooperation pact.


    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1631677172065738753

    Could a Sunak Falklands moment save his chances of reelection?

    Bloody hell not again. The Argentinians need to give this a rest.
    Of course national fervour doesn't make sense, we have our own examples of that, but the Argentinian passion on this issue really doesn't seem to make sense to me when it's noted their claim to the islands is a rather technical one based on inheriting rights from former Spanish sovereignty, and talk about natives who don't exist. Yes there are other complexities, but the point being it's actually a rather arcane legal dispute, yet it's talked about in terms of colonialism as if someone seized Buenos Aires 2 years ago.
    Its one of the most ridiculous claims in the history of international diplomacy. There is no Argentinian population on the islands. There has never been an Argentinian population resident on the island. There is no population in Argentina that looks towards the Falklands as their ancestral home. Over Argentina's entire history as a state, the Argentinian government's control of the islands was less than three months, while waiting for the British armed forces to turn up.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    The view from the cheap seats seems to be that KIC, but in fact KICIPM...
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,033
    I was dubious re. Starmers tactics yesterday.

    However, since that point, we’ve been reminded what an utter idiot buffoon Johnson was. And how awful partygate was
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    kle4 said:

    WillG said:

    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1631690590176813057

    Nadine Dorries speaking total sense. Sadly this was in the past.

    The facts have changed however. Now we know that she supports Labour sufficiently to take a major position in the party.
    That doesn't mean she could not perform her job in an independent fashion. She's worked in goverment for years and apparently no one had any reason to suspect there was a Labour supporter in their midst.

    Yes, it's unnecessarily awkward timing, but the attempt to say if she supports Labour she must be bent, which whatever is claimed is the essence of the allegation, is not well made. If they felt her work was excellent and independent before, then clearly she did perform her role independently since they had no reason to believe she stitched them up.
    But it is now reasonable to ask the question about how impartial her judgment was. And I say this as someone that is glad Johnson was chased out.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    WillG said:

    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1631690590176813057

    Nadine Dorries speaking total sense. Sadly this was in the past.

    The facts have changed however. Now we know that she supports Labour sufficiently to take a major position in the party.
    How do you know she "supports" Labour? I'd take a job with any of the parties for enough cash. I imagine a lot of civil servants would take a job with any of the parties for enough power.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    WillG said:

    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1631690590176813057

    Nadine Dorries speaking total sense. Sadly this was in the past.

    The facts have changed however. Now we know that she supports Labour sufficiently to take a major position in the party.
    Just like Dan Rosenfeld then?
    Did he work for the Conservative Party?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited March 2023
    kle4 said:

    @TLDRNewsUK
    🇦🇷 Argentina has told the UK that it wants to start new talks over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and has pulled out of a 2016 cooperation pact.


    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1631677172065738753

    Could a Sunak Falklands moment save his chances of reelection?

    Bloody hell not again. The Argentinians need to give this a rest.
    Of course national fervour doesn't make sense, we have our own examples of that, but the Argentinian passion on this issue really doesn't seem to make sense to me when it's noted their claim to the islands is a rather technical one based on inheriting rights from former Spanish sovereignty, and talk about natives who don't exist. Yes there are other complexities, but the point being it's actually a rather arcane legal dispute, yet it's talked about in terms of colonialism as if someone seized Buenos Aires 2 years ago.
    There is nothing Argentina can do about it anyway. The UK has a veto on any UN decision as a permanent member of the UN Security Council unlike them.

    The UK also has a bigger navy and army and airforce than Argentina now
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    @TLDRNewsUK
    🇦🇷 Argentina has told the UK that it wants to start new talks over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and has pulled out of a 2016 cooperation pact.


    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1631677172065738753

    Could a Sunak Falklands moment save his chances of reelection?

    Bloody hell not again. The Argentinians need to give this a rest.
    Of course national fervour doesn't make sense, we have our own examples of that, but the Argentinian passion on this issue really doesn't seem to make sense to me when it's noted their claim to the islands is a rather technical one based on inheriting rights from former Spanish sovereignty, and talk about natives who don't exist. Yes there are other complexities, but the point being it's actually a rather arcane legal dispute, yet it's talked about in terms of colonialism as if someone seized Buenos Aires 2 years ago.
    Its one of the most ridiculous claims in the history of international diplomacy. There is no Argentinian population on the islands. There has never been an Argentinian population resident on the island. There is no population in Argentina that looks towards the Falklands as their ancestral home. Over Argentina's entire history as a state, the Argentinian government's control of the islands was less than three months, while waiting for the British armed forces to turn up.
    Of course, they can get a majority of countries to back them up, and talk about colonialism, but ultimately its just not the kind of strong example of brutal occupation they present it as, which just looks silly.

    I wonder if things would be the same if the UK regarded overseas possessions as part of the country proper, like France - none of that specious 'if it is nearer to country X is must belong to country X' argument that people often make, except when it hurts their case of course.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    WillG said:

    But it is now reasonable to ask the question about how impartial her judgment was. And I say this as someone that is glad Johnson was chased out.

    Her report kept him in place.

    Then he fucked up again...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    @TLDRNewsUK
    🇦🇷 Argentina has told the UK that it wants to start new talks over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and has pulled out of a 2016 cooperation pact.


    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1631677172065738753

    Could a Sunak Falklands moment save his chances of reelection?

    Bloody hell not again. The Argentinians need to give this a rest.
    Of course national fervour doesn't make sense, we have our own examples of that, but the Argentinian passion on this issue really doesn't seem to make sense to me when it's noted their claim to the islands is a rather technical one based on inheriting rights from former Spanish sovereignty, and talk about natives who don't exist. Yes there are other complexities, but the point being it's actually a rather arcane legal dispute, yet it's talked about in terms of colonialism as if someone seized Buenos Aires 2 years ago.
    There is nothing Argentina can do about it anyway. The UK has a veto on any UN decision as a permanent member of the UN Security Council unlike them.

    The UK also has a bigger navy and army and airforce than Argentina now
    I thought New Zealand had bigger armed forces than Argentina, now...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    @TLDRNewsUK
    🇦🇷 Argentina has told the UK that it wants to start new talks over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and has pulled out of a 2016 cooperation pact.


    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1631677172065738753

    Could a Sunak Falklands moment save his chances of reelection?

    Bloody hell not again. The Argentinians need to give this a rest.
    Of course national fervour doesn't make sense, we have our own examples of that, but the Argentinian passion on this issue really doesn't seem to make sense to me when it's noted their claim to the islands is a rather technical one based on inheriting rights from former Spanish sovereignty, and talk about natives who don't exist. Yes there are other complexities, but the point being it's actually a rather arcane legal dispute, yet it's talked about in terms of colonialism as if someone seized Buenos Aires 2 years ago.
    There is nothing Argentina can do about it anyway. The UK has a veto on any UN decision as a permanent member of the UN Security Council unlike them.

    The UK also has a bigger navy and army and airforce than Argentina now
    They used to have the hand of god to call on, but nowadays if they tried anything it would just get messy.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010

    WillG said:

    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1631690590176813057

    Nadine Dorries speaking total sense. Sadly this was in the past.

    The facts have changed however. Now we know that she supports Labour sufficiently to take a major position in the party.
    How do you know she "supports" Labour? I'd take a job with any of the parties for enough cash. I imagine a lot of civil servants would take a job with any of the parties for enough power.
    You don't get a job like that without saying you support the aims and values of the party.

    So either she does, or she lied to get the job.
  • On making Brexit work good figures for Sunak no doubt following the WF

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1631691163236171779?t=JXH-hkusSZV-Y8DXVtffOA&s=19
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Today's SNP leadership poll suggests Yousaf leads but with less than 50% and Regan's preferences will be decisive.

    It also found '...the data suggests she is more popular than Mr Yousaf among older SNP members, while those younger than their mid-40s heavily favour the Health Secretary.

    Working-class party members favour Ms Forbes while middle classes prefer Mr Yousaf, the data suggests.'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/03/snp-leadership-contest-close-call-party-members-poll-finds/
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    kle4 said:

    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    @TLDRNewsUK
    🇦🇷 Argentina has told the UK that it wants to start new talks over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and has pulled out of a 2016 cooperation pact.


    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1631677172065738753

    Could a Sunak Falklands moment save his chances of reelection?

    Bloody hell not again. The Argentinians need to give this a rest.
    Of course national fervour doesn't make sense, we have our own examples of that, but the Argentinian passion on this issue really doesn't seem to make sense to me when it's noted their claim to the islands is a rather technical one based on inheriting rights from former Spanish sovereignty, and talk about natives who don't exist. Yes there are other complexities, but the point being it's actually a rather arcane legal dispute, yet it's talked about in terms of colonialism as if someone seized Buenos Aires 2 years ago.
    Its one of the most ridiculous claims in the history of international diplomacy. There is no Argentinian population on the islands. There has never been an Argentinian population resident on the island. There is no population in Argentina that looks towards the Falklands as their ancestral home. Over Argentina's entire history as a state, the Argentinian government's control of the islands was less than three months, while waiting for the British armed forces to turn up.
    Of course, they can get a majority of countries to back them up, and talk about colonialism, but ultimately its just not the kind of strong example of brutal occupation they present it as, which just looks silly.

    I wonder if things would be the same if the UK regarded overseas possessions as part of the country proper, like France - none of that specious 'if it is nearer to country X is must belong to country X' argument that people often make, except when it hurts their case of course.
    Even the contorted decolonial arguments they make wouldn't apply to the Falklands any more than they would apply to the whole of Argentina, who virtually eliminated their entire Native American and African American population.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,409
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    @TLDRNewsUK
    🇦🇷 Argentina has told the UK that it wants to start new talks over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and has pulled out of a 2016 cooperation pact.


    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1631677172065738753

    Could a Sunak Falklands moment save his chances of reelection?

    Bloody hell not again. The Argentinians need to give this a rest.
    Of course national fervour doesn't make sense, we have our own examples of that, but the Argentinian passion on this issue really doesn't seem to make sense to me when it's noted their claim to the islands is a rather technical one based on inheriting rights from former Spanish sovereignty, and talk about natives who don't exist. Yes there are other complexities, but the point being it's actually a rather arcane legal dispute, yet it's talked about in terms of colonialism as if someone seized Buenos Aires 2 years ago.
    There is nothing Argentina can do about it anyway. The UK has a veto on any UN decision as a permanent member of the UN Security Council unlike them.

    The UK also has a bigger navy and army and airforce than Argentina now
    Have a look at an atlas. It's not the Persian Gulf.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited March 2023
    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    WillG said:

    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1631690590176813057

    Nadine Dorries speaking total sense. Sadly this was in the past.

    The facts have changed however. Now we know that she supports Labour sufficiently to take a major position in the party.
    That doesn't mean she could not perform her job in an independent fashion. She's worked in goverment for years and apparently no one had any reason to suspect there was a Labour supporter in their midst.

    Yes, it's unnecessarily awkward timing, but the attempt to say if she supports Labour she must be bent, which whatever is claimed is the essence of the allegation, is not well made. If they felt her work was excellent and independent before, then clearly she did perform her role independently since they had no reason to believe she stitched them up.
    But it is now reasonable to ask the question about how impartial her judgment was. And I say this as someone that is glad Johnson was chased out.
    Well, Boris's opponents were a bit disappointed by her report and Labour called for a further investigation about elements she did not include, so it was clearly not unfair against him.

    The key facts are not disputed, and he apologised for elements of it. So if she was railroading him with her interpretations he did not say so at the time, and claiming that is the case now does not work.

    He cannot accept the conclusions then, and say it vindicated him of the most serious accusations, and now claim it is all a fix.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partygate
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    Driver said:

    WillG said:

    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1631690590176813057

    Nadine Dorries speaking total sense. Sadly this was in the past.

    The facts have changed however. Now we know that she supports Labour sufficiently to take a major position in the party.
    How do you know she "supports" Labour? I'd take a job with any of the parties for enough cash. I imagine a lot of civil servants would take a job with any of the parties for enough power.
    You don't get a job like that without saying you support the aims and values of the party.

    So either she does, or she lied to get the job.
    Well if that is the case maybe that is why we end up with shit governments. It seems an ideal role for someone pragmatic who knows how to get things done, rather than someone who knows what they want to do.
  • WillG said:

    WillG said:

    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1631690590176813057

    Nadine Dorries speaking total sense. Sadly this was in the past.

    The facts have changed however. Now we know that she supports Labour sufficiently to take a major position in the party.
    Just like Dan Rosenfeld then?
    Did he work for the Conservative Party?
    Well apparently you don't become Chief of Staff unless you support the aims of the party, so yes
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,966
    It is quite easy to attack Starmer:

    "Why did you sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years when anti-semitism was rife in the Labour Party?"

    No answer to that I've heard.....
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    Perhaps the geordie police can investigate?
  • It is quite easy to attack Starmer:

    "Why did you sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years when anti-semitism was rife in the Labour Party?"

    No answer to that I've heard.....

    Why did Rishi vote for a protocol which he says doesn't work?
  • Perhaps the geordie police can investigate?
    Yeah let's get the Mail on it, is an MP's son available to help out?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,239
    Starmer played a blinder, appointing Gray to investigate Partygate.

    Sorry, what was that? Bozo appointed her? Surely some mistake.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited March 2023
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    @TLDRNewsUK
    🇦🇷 Argentina has told the UK that it wants to start new talks over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and has pulled out of a 2016 cooperation pact.


    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1631677172065738753

    Could a Sunak Falklands moment save his chances of reelection?

    Bloody hell not again. The Argentinians need to give this a rest.
    Of course national fervour doesn't make sense, we have our own examples of that, but the Argentinian passion on this issue really doesn't seem to make sense to me when it's noted their claim to the islands is a rather technical one based on inheriting rights from former Spanish sovereignty, and talk about natives who don't exist. Yes there are other complexities, but the point being it's actually a rather arcane legal dispute, yet it's talked about in terms of colonialism as if someone seized Buenos Aires 2 years ago.
    There is nothing Argentina can do about it anyway. The UK has a veto on any UN decision as a permanent member of the UN Security Council unlike them.

    The UK also has a bigger navy and army and airforce than Argentina now
    Have a look at an atlas. It's not the Persian Gulf.
    Since the Falklands War there is also a bigger permanent British garrison on the islands and bigger airfield. Plus a Royal Navy ship on patrol in their waters at all times and a Royal Navy nuclear submarine patrols regularly nearby (though the exact times and location of the latter are obviously classified)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,966

    It is quite easy to attack Starmer:

    "Why did you sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years when anti-semitism was rife in the Labour Party?"

    No answer to that I've heard.....

    Why did Rishi vote for a protocol which he says doesn't work?

    Painfully weak retort....
  • Perhaps the geordie police can investigate?
    Yeah let's get the Mail on it, is an MP's son available to help out?
    The person asking the question was Joe Pike of Sky news
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1631690590176813057

    Nadine Dorries speaking total sense. Sadly this was in the past.

    The facts have changed however. Now we know that she supports Labour sufficiently to take a major position in the party.
    Just like Dan Rosenfeld then?
    Did he work for the Conservative Party?
    Well apparently you don't become Chief of Staff unless you support the aims of the party, so yes
    Downing Street Chief of Staff is a government position, not a party position.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156

    Starmer played a blinder, appointing Gray to investigate Partygate.

    Sorry, what was that? Bozo appointed her? Surely some mistake.

    She did the minimum possible with maximum delay on the investigation anyway, given the suspect was so obviously bang to rights from the start.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1631690590176813057

    Nadine Dorries speaking total sense. Sadly this was in the past.

    The facts have changed however. Now we know that she supports Labour sufficiently to take a major position in the party.
    Just like Dan Rosenfeld then?
    Did he work for the Conservative Party?
    Well apparently you don't become Chief of Staff unless you support the aims of the party, so yes
    Ah, so you are reading my comments.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010

    It is quite easy to attack Starmer:

    "Why did you sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years when anti-semitism was rife in the Labour Party?"

    No answer to that I've heard.....

    Why did Rishi vote for a protocol which he says doesn't work?
    As a temporary measure that was always intended to be replaced, duh.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Has any PB-er tried this miracle weight loss drug Ozempic?

    As avowed by Jez Clarkson, most of Hollywood, and now David Aaronovitch in today’s Times?

    It sounds amazing. And I’ve just discovered that a chunky female relative of mine has been on it for 5 weeks and has lost 10 pounds (without trying). And she has struggled with weight all of her life

    I’ve got 12 pounds of Covid lard that will not shift. I’m gonna try this

    I have a colleague who has taken it for a while, he said it's been great for getting the weight down but it has taken all of the enjoyment of food out of life for him. I think for someone like you where going to a great restaurant and enjoying the food it will probably be a big hit to your life quality vs doing a bit of extra exercise.

    My relative says this is not her experience

    She still really enjoys food, she just eats less

    But I hear you: I will do a short term experiment
    Given that you are based in Inner London and spend time there - in perhaps the best patch of cycling infrastructure in the entire country - I'd suggest taking a look at getting a Brompton folder for your local travel, which you can fold down in 20s and take anywhere you need to go.

    IMO far better than flapping about will pill-rollers.

    If you want to have a tryout, see if they will lend you one or hire one for £5 a day for a couple of weeks from a railway station such as St Pancras.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,409
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    @TLDRNewsUK
    🇦🇷 Argentina has told the UK that it wants to start new talks over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and has pulled out of a 2016 cooperation pact.


    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1631677172065738753

    Could a Sunak Falklands moment save his chances of reelection?

    Bloody hell not again. The Argentinians need to give this a rest.
    Of course national fervour doesn't make sense, we have our own examples of that, but the Argentinian passion on this issue really doesn't seem to make sense to me when it's noted their claim to the islands is a rather technical one based on inheriting rights from former Spanish sovereignty, and talk about natives who don't exist. Yes there are other complexities, but the point being it's actually a rather arcane legal dispute, yet it's talked about in terms of colonialism as if someone seized Buenos Aires 2 years ago.
    There is nothing Argentina can do about it anyway. The UK has a veto on any UN decision as a permanent member of the UN Security Council unlike them.

    The UK also has a bigger navy and army and airforce than Argentina now
    Have a look at an atlas. It's not the Persian Gulf.
    Since the Falklands War there is also a bigger permanent British garrison on the islands, a Royal Navy ship on patrol there at all times and a Royal Navy nuclear submarine patrols regularly nearby (though the exact times and location of the latter are obviously classified)
    "ship" is a posh way to describe a patrol boat. And the forces, at the far end of a long supply line, are very small.

    I remember 1981 - you obviously don't.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,724
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    @TLDRNewsUK
    🇦🇷 Argentina has told the UK that it wants to start new talks over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and has pulled out of a 2016 cooperation pact.


    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1631677172065738753

    Could a Sunak Falklands moment save his chances of reelection?

    Bloody hell not again. The Argentinians need to give this a rest.
    Of course national fervour doesn't make sense, we have our own examples of that, but the Argentinian passion on this issue really doesn't seem to make sense to me when it's noted their claim to the islands is a rather technical one based on inheriting rights from former Spanish sovereignty, and talk about natives who don't exist. Yes there are other complexities, but the point being it's actually a rather arcane legal dispute, yet it's talked about in terms of colonialism as if someone seized Buenos Aires 2 years ago.
    There is nothing Argentina can do about it anyway. The UK has a veto on any UN decision as a permanent member of the UN Security Council unlike them.

    The UK also has a bigger navy and army and airforce than Argentina now
    The Argies forces must be minuscule!
  • CorrectHorseBattery3CorrectHorseBattery3 Posts: 2,757
    edited March 2023

    It is quite easy to attack Starmer:

    "Why did you sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years when anti-semitism was rife in the Labour Party?"

    No answer to that I've heard.....

    Why did Rishi vote for a protocol which he says doesn't work?

    Painfully weak retort....
    It was a painfully weak point that you made.

    Why did Johnson serve under May when he hated everything she said and did? If this is the road the Tories want to go down, they will lose. We had this in 1997, it didn't work then and it won't work now.

    Try harder next time.

    As for Starmer, his credentials are solid, he has been praised by the Board of Deputies, JLM and others for how he has combatted anti-Semitism. If he hadn't served in the SC he wouldn't be leader now and he wouldn't have been able to get Labour out of special measures. You're onto a loser with this "point"
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    HYUFD said:

    Today's SNP leadership poll suggests Yousaf leads but with less than 50% and Regan's preferences will be decisive.

    It also found '...the data suggests she is more popular than Mr Yousaf among older SNP members, while those younger than their mid-40s heavily favour the Health Secretary.

    Working-class party members favour Ms Forbes while middle classes prefer Mr Yousaf, the data suggests.'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/03/snp-leadership-contest-close-call-party-members-poll-finds/

    It's a close and genuinely exciting contest between 2 very different propositions. Anybody expecting a call from me is likely to be disappointed.
  • Perhaps the geordie police can investigate?
    Yeah let's get the Mail on it, is an MP's son available to help out?
    The person asking the question was Joe Pike of Sky news
    Oh dear.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903
    Driver said:

    It is quite easy to attack Starmer:

    "Why did you sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years when anti-semitism was rife in the Labour Party?"

    No answer to that I've heard.....

    Why did Rishi vote for a protocol which he says doesn't work?
    As a temporary measure that was always intended to be replaced, duh.
    Starmer sat in Corbyn's shadow cabinet as a temporary measure with the intention of replacing him, duh.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,516
    FPT
    Carnyx said:

    » show previous quotes
    Mm. It's not a FPTP vote. Given the very high chance that anyone voting fror Regan 1 will put Forbes 2, and vice versa, I wouldn't be too sure aboiut Mr Yousaf's chances quite yet.

    Surely they cannot be so thick they will vote that lying clown in so he becomes FM. If so Scotland and SNP are F**ked big time.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010

    It is quite easy to attack Starmer:

    "Why did you sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years when anti-semitism was rife in the Labour Party?"

    No answer to that I've heard.....

    Why did Rishi vote for a protocol which he says doesn't work?

    Painfully weak retort....
    It was a painfully weak point that you made.

    Why did Johnson serve under May when he hated everything she said and did? If this is the road the Tories want to go down, they will lose. We had this in 1997, it didn't work then and it won't work now.

    Try harder next time.
    Because he put his career ahead of doing what was right.

    Just like Sir Keir did when he twice campaigned for Jeremy Corbyn to become prime minister.

    I never expected you of all people to argue that "Sir Keir is just like Boris", so well done!
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010

    Driver said:

    It is quite easy to attack Starmer:

    "Why did you sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years when anti-semitism was rife in the Labour Party?"

    No answer to that I've heard.....

    Why did Rishi vote for a protocol which he says doesn't work?
    As a temporary measure that was always intended to be replaced, duh.
    Starmer sat in Corbyn's shadow cabinet as a temporary measure with the intention of replacing him, duh.
    And that's why he twice campaigned for him to become prime minister?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,409

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    @TLDRNewsUK
    🇦🇷 Argentina has told the UK that it wants to start new talks over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and has pulled out of a 2016 cooperation pact.


    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1631677172065738753

    Could a Sunak Falklands moment save his chances of reelection?

    Bloody hell not again. The Argentinians need to give this a rest.
    Of course national fervour doesn't make sense, we have our own examples of that, but the Argentinian passion on this issue really doesn't seem to make sense to me when it's noted their claim to the islands is a rather technical one based on inheriting rights from former Spanish sovereignty, and talk about natives who don't exist. Yes there are other complexities, but the point being it's actually a rather arcane legal dispute, yet it's talked about in terms of colonialism as if someone seized Buenos Aires 2 years ago.
    There is nothing Argentina can do about it anyway. The UK has a veto on any UN decision as a permanent member of the UN Security Council unlike them.

    The UK also has a bigger navy and army and airforce than Argentina now
    The Argies forces must be minuscule!
    Sure, a lot smaller tdhan they used to be. But this is a long term thing for them. I wouldn't ignore it, not like the late 1970s.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    F1: think I had a free bet on Alonso to win... might actually come off.

    Tip of 3.8 on a podium looking nice, at the moment. Can be hedged, just about, at 2.66 (though back value is 1.8 or so).

    Interested to see how that develops.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903
    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    It is quite easy to attack Starmer:

    "Why did you sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years when anti-semitism was rife in the Labour Party?"

    No answer to that I've heard.....

    Why did Rishi vote for a protocol which he says doesn't work?
    As a temporary measure that was always intended to be replaced, duh.
    Starmer sat in Corbyn's shadow cabinet as a temporary measure with the intention of replacing him, duh.
    And that's why he twice campaigned for him to become prime minister?
    And that's why Sunak campaigned for Boris Johnson to become prime minister on the basis of his "oven ready" deal and protocol?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,913

    Driver said:

    It is quite easy to attack Starmer:

    "Why did you sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years when anti-semitism was rife in the Labour Party?"

    No answer to that I've heard.....

    Why did Rishi vote for a protocol which he says doesn't work?
    As a temporary measure that was always intended to be replaced, duh.
    Starmer sat in Corbyn's shadow cabinet as a temporary measure with the intention of replacing him, duh.
    Perhaps playing the long game, but I think that's a stretch. More likely a combination of the two.

    There were many far blacker marks against Corbyn as a PM than the alleged anti-semitism.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Driver said:

    It is quite easy to attack Starmer:

    "Why did you sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years when anti-semitism was rife in the Labour Party?"

    No answer to that I've heard.....

    Why did Rishi vote for a protocol which he says doesn't work?

    Painfully weak retort....
    It was a painfully weak point that you made.

    Why did Johnson serve under May when he hated everything she said and did? If this is the road the Tories want to go down, they will lose. We had this in 1997, it didn't work then and it won't work now.

    Try harder next time.
    Because he put his career ahead of doing what was right.

    Just like Sir Keir did when he twice campaigned for Jeremy Corbyn to become prime minister.

    I never expected you of all people to argue that "Sir Keir is just like Boris", so well done!
    Try this:

    All professional politicians are self-serving liars, and one day everyone will be surprised they were tolerated so long - like witch doctors and absolute monarchs.
  • Omnium said:

    Driver said:

    It is quite easy to attack Starmer:

    "Why did you sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years when anti-semitism was rife in the Labour Party?"

    No answer to that I've heard.....

    Why did Rishi vote for a protocol which he says doesn't work?
    As a temporary measure that was always intended to be replaced, duh.
    Starmer sat in Corbyn's shadow cabinet as a temporary measure with the intention of replacing him, duh.
    Perhaps playing the long game, but I think that's a stretch. More likely a combination of the two.

    There were many far blacker marks against Corbyn as a PM than the alleged anti-semitism.
    It is absolutely true that if Starmer had not served, he would not have been elected leader.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    edited March 2023

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    @TLDRNewsUK
    🇦🇷 Argentina has told the UK that it wants to start new talks over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and has pulled out of a 2016 cooperation pact.


    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1631677172065738753

    Could a Sunak Falklands moment save his chances of reelection?

    Bloody hell not again. The Argentinians need to give this a rest.
    Of course national fervour doesn't make sense, we have our own examples of that, but the Argentinian passion on this issue really doesn't seem to make sense to me when it's noted their claim to the islands is a rather technical one based on inheriting rights from former Spanish sovereignty, and talk about natives who don't exist. Yes there are other complexities, but the point being it's actually a rather arcane legal dispute, yet it's talked about in terms of colonialism as if someone seized Buenos Aires 2 years ago.
    There is nothing Argentina can do about it anyway. The UK has a veto on any UN decision as a permanent member of the UN Security Council unlike them.

    The UK also has a bigger navy and army and airforce than Argentina now
    The Argies forces must be minuscule!
    Google tells me Arg: 70,600 (2022) vs UK 78,000 (2020). Not sure if this is chalk and apples eg whole of armed forces vs army...but it's a close run thing.

    We absolutely couldn't mount another Falklands tomorrow morning that's for sure.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Has any PB-er tried this miracle weight loss drug Ozempic?

    As avowed by Jez Clarkson, most of Hollywood, and now David Aaronovitch in today’s Times?

    It sounds amazing. And I’ve just discovered that a chunky female relative of mine has been on it for 5 weeks and has lost 10 pounds (without trying). And she has struggled with weight all of her life

    I’ve got 12 pounds of Covid lard that will not shift. I’m gonna try this

    I have a colleague who has taken it for a while, he said it's been great for getting the weight down but it has taken all of the enjoyment of food out of life for him. I think for someone like you where going to a great restaurant and enjoying the food it will probably be a big hit to your life quality vs doing a bit of extra exercise.

    My relative says this is not her experience

    She still really enjoys food, she just eats less

    But I hear you: I will do a short term experiment
    Given that you are based in Inner London and spend time there - in perhaps the best patch of cycling infrastructure in the entire country - I'd suggest taking a look at getting a Brompton folder for your local travel, which you can fold down in 20s and take anywhere you need to go.

    IMO far better than flapping about will pill-rollers.

    If you want to have a tryout, see if they will lend you one or hire one for £5 a day for a couple of weeks from a railway station such as St Pancras.
    With respect, why the flaming flatulent fuck would I want to do that?

    I eat very healthily and well. I walk daily. I go to the gym daily. I am fit. I don’t smoke. I drink too much

    But as I’ve aged I find I can’t shift that last 10-15 pounds of chunk like I used to do (with ease)

    Maybe god wants me a stone heavier? If so, fair enough

    But I am intrigued enough by this medication to give it a go. At the very least it will be interesting
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,470

    It is quite easy to attack Starmer:

    "Why did you sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years when anti-semitism was rife in the Labour Party?"

    No answer to that I've heard.....

    That highlights the problem for the Conservatives.

    There are plenty of ways to attack Starmer, and at a different time those attacks would land.

    Right now, most voters are just fed up with the Conservatives and want them to shut up and go away.

    It's similar to the way that plenty of people were quite accurate in saying BoJo was a wrongun before 2019, but at that point it didn't matter.
  • https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1631714985817649153

    Conservative MP Brendan Clarke-Smith tells Sky News there "potentially needs to be an enquiry" into Sue Gray's appointment as Keir Starmer's Chief of Staff

    Let's have an enquiry into Jonathan Powell and Edward Llewellyn too.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    edited March 2023

    Perhaps the geordie police can investigate?
    Yeah let's get the Mail on it, is an MP's son available to help out?
    The person asking the question was Joe Pike of Sky news
    Oh dear.
    I know you are very much into Starmer but you do not seem to be able to engage in sensible dialogue

    Why 'oh dear' when Sky are asking your leader pertinent question as are other broadcasters and this position in Labour has been open for 5 months and they had a professional interaction when he was head of the CPS

    He says he is honest so why not just confirm it
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    Chris said:

    Driver said:

    It is quite easy to attack Starmer:

    "Why did you sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years when anti-semitism was rife in the Labour Party?"

    No answer to that I've heard.....

    Why did Rishi vote for a protocol which he says doesn't work?

    Painfully weak retort....
    It was a painfully weak point that you made.

    Why did Johnson serve under May when he hated everything she said and did? If this is the road the Tories want to go down, they will lose. We had this in 1997, it didn't work then and it won't work now.

    Try harder next time.
    Because he put his career ahead of doing what was right.

    Just like Sir Keir did when he twice campaigned for Jeremy Corbyn to become prime minister.

    I never expected you of all people to argue that "Sir Keir is just like Boris", so well done!
    Try this:

    All professional politicians are self-serving liars, and one day everyone will be surprised they were tolerated so long - like witch doctors and absolute monarchs.
    And in their place you will put......
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,724
    It’s a bit rich, BigG, for a conservative supporter to accuse other people of dishonesty.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited March 2023
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    @TLDRNewsUK
    🇦🇷 Argentina has told the UK that it wants to start new talks over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and has pulled out of a 2016 cooperation pact.


    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1631677172065738753

    Could a Sunak Falklands moment save his chances of reelection?

    Bloody hell not again. The Argentinians need to give this a rest.
    Of course national fervour doesn't make sense, we have our own examples of that, but the Argentinian passion on this issue really doesn't seem to make sense to me when it's noted their claim to the islands is a rather technical one based on inheriting rights from former Spanish sovereignty, and talk about natives who don't exist. Yes there are other complexities, but the point being it's actually a rather arcane legal dispute, yet it's talked about in terms of colonialism as if someone seized Buenos Aires 2 years ago.
    There is nothing Argentina can do about it anyway. The UK has a veto on any UN decision as a permanent member of the UN Security Council unlike them.

    The UK also has a bigger navy and army and airforce than Argentina now
    Have a look at an atlas. It's not the Persian Gulf.
    Since the Falklands War there is also a bigger permanent British garrison on the islands, a Royal Navy ship on patrol there at all times and a Royal Navy nuclear submarine patrols regularly nearby (though the exact times and location of the latter are obviously classified)
    "ship" is a posh way to describe a patrol boat. And the forces, at the far end of a long supply line, are very small.

    I remember 1981 - you obviously don't.
    Yes, Argentina has cut its armed forces back to far fewer than they were in Galtieri's day.

    Now the UK has 11 submarines (including with cruise missiles), Argentina just 2.
    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/submarines-by-country

    The Royal Navy has 2 aircraft carriers, Argentina 0
    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/aircraft-carriers-by-country

    The UK also has an army of 153,200, Argentina just 72,100
    https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/military-size-by-country/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    Driver said:

    It is quite easy to attack Starmer:

    "Why did you sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years when anti-semitism was rife in the Labour Party?"

    No answer to that I've heard.....

    Why did Rishi vote for a protocol which he says doesn't work?
    As a temporary measure that was always intended to be replaced, duh.
    Yes I remember that's exactly how it was described at the time.
  • Perhaps the geordie police can investigate?
    Yeah let's get the Mail on it, is an MP's son available to help out?
    The person asking the question was Joe Pike of Sky news
    Oh dear.
    I know you are very much into Starmer but you do not seem to be able to engage in sensible dialogue

    Why 'oh dear' when Sky are asked your leader pertinent question as are other broadcasters and this position in Labour has been open for 5 months and they had a professional interaction when he was head of the CPS

    He says he is honest so why not just confirm it
    You didn't get the very obvious joke I was responding to and continuing. That is why I said oh dear
  • glwglw Posts: 9,956

    Starmer played a blinder, appointing Gray to investigate Partygate.

    Sorry, what was that? Bozo appointed her? Surely some mistake.

    She did the minimum possible with maximum delay on the investigation anyway, given the suspect was so obviously bang to rights from the start.
    Yes the idea that she was out to get Boris is ridiculous. Why doesn't he quit politics and go off earn a lot of money and find more opportunity for cheating?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,916

    Ambulance strikes called off after offer of talks from the government

    Talks could have been offered three months ago. What a waste.
  • Ambulance strikes called off after offer of talks from the government

    Talks could have been offered three months ago. What a waste.
    Political capital wasted on this, what a silly decision
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited March 2023
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    @TLDRNewsUK
    🇦🇷 Argentina has told the UK that it wants to start new talks over the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and has pulled out of a 2016 cooperation pact.


    https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1631677172065738753

    Could a Sunak Falklands moment save his chances of reelection?

    Bloody hell not again. The Argentinians need to give this a rest.
    Of course national fervour doesn't make sense, we have our own examples of that, but the Argentinian passion on this issue really doesn't seem to make sense to me when it's noted their claim to the islands is a rather technical one based on inheriting rights from former Spanish sovereignty, and talk about natives who don't exist. Yes there are other complexities, but the point being it's actually a rather arcane legal dispute, yet it's talked about in terms of colonialism as if someone seized Buenos Aires 2 years ago.
    There is nothing Argentina can do about it anyway. The UK has a veto on any UN decision as a permanent member of the UN Security Council unlike them.

    The UK also has a bigger navy and army and airforce than Argentina now
    The Argies forces must be minuscule!
    Google tells me Arg: 70,600 (2022) vs UK 78,000 (2020). Not sure if this is chalk and apples eg whole of HMF vs army...but it's a close run thing.

    We absolutely couldn't mount another Falklands tomorrow morning that's for sure.
    From what I’ve seen of the Argentine navy in Ushuaia they could barely crew one ship

    However all this is replying to the mood music of Britain in retreat. Giving up the Elgin marbles. Handing back Diego Garcia. London shrinking as a world city

    I can see why the argies might think now is a time to strike - psychologically - as the Uk seems in perpetual decline and in a funk of self doubt
  • Perhaps the geordie police can investigate?
    Yeah let's get the Mail on it, is an MP's son available to help out?
    The person asking the question was Joe Pike of Sky news
    Oh dear.
    I know you are very much into Starmer but you do not seem to be able to engage in sensible dialogue

    Why 'oh dear' when Sky are asked your leader pertinent question as are other broadcasters and this position in Labour has been open for 5 months and they had a professional interaction when he was head of the CPS

    He says he is honest so why not just confirm it
    You didn't get the very obvious joke I was responding to and continuing. That is why I said oh dear
    Not a joke - just a silly response and do you support his evasion over this question
  • Perhaps the geordie police can investigate?
    Yeah let's get the Mail on it, is an MP's son available to help out?
    The person asking the question was Joe Pike of Sky news
    Oh dear.
    I know you are very much into Starmer but you do not seem to be able to engage in sensible dialogue

    Why 'oh dear' when Sky are asked your leader pertinent question as are other broadcasters and this position in Labour has been open for 5 months and they had a professional interaction when he was head of the CPS

    He says he is honest so why not just confirm it
    You didn't get the very obvious joke I was responding to and continuing. That is why I said oh dear
    Not a joke - just a silly response and do you support his evasion over this question
    Okay I clearly need to explain the joke to you.

    Geordie police can investigate = when the Police investigated Starmer for Beergate

    Mail on it = Mail pushed the police to investigate Starmer

    MP's son = the person who provided the photos

    The joke isn't funny when I've had to explain it
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,010

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    It is quite easy to attack Starmer:

    "Why did you sit in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for three years when anti-semitism was rife in the Labour Party?"

    No answer to that I've heard.....

    Why did Rishi vote for a protocol which he says doesn't work?
    As a temporary measure that was always intended to be replaced, duh.
    Starmer sat in Corbyn's shadow cabinet as a temporary measure with the intention of replacing him, duh.
    And that's why he twice campaigned for him to become prime minister?
    And that's why Sunak campaigned for Boris Johnson to become prime minister on the basis of his "oven ready" deal and protocol?
    Because of May's errors, that was necessary at that point...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    edited March 2023
    Thing is, do you want to be on medication or a diet for the rest of your life. 153% of people who lose weight on diets alone put the weight back on when they stop. Or they go bonkers (only another 15 miles for my 11am Mars Bar).

    It has to be exercise imo of whatever kind suits your lifestyle. For me that's a combination of different sports according to season/weather, and riding Boris all year round*.

    *the bikes, obvs.
This discussion has been closed.