Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

Undefined discussion subject.

SystemSystem Posts: 11,731
edited February 2023 in General
Undefined discussion subject.

Read the full story here

«134

Comments

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,951
    First. Unlike Forbes
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,571
    Forbes, in my opinion, is now value.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,308
    edited February 2023
    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon
  • Options
    Enoch Powell was right.

    #Visionary
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,245
    Good news for those with a large Biden position in their 2024 book.

    For age 80+, reduction in death compared with unvaccinated
    2 shots, no recent booster 72% Bivalent booster 87%

    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1628067636021194753

    Perhaps explains why some GOP state senators want to make administering an mRNA vaccine a felony ?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,571
    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Whilst I agree with this for the reasons I gave on the previous thread no patriotic person concerned for the welfare of a significant part of the UK would ever wish for useless Yousaf to be first minister. The probability of multiple, damaging crises before the next Scottish elections would be dangerously high.
  • Options
    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead is twenty-two points in latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 28% (-)
    Lab 50% (+2)
    Lib Dem 9% (+1)
    Other 12% (-4)
    Fieldwork: 17th - 20th February
    Sample: 1,079 GB adults
    (Changes from 10th - 13th February 2023

    Latest Scottish Westminster voting intention (17-20 February)

    SNP: 38% (-4 since 23-26 Jan*)
    Labour: 29% (=)
    Conservative: 19% (+4)
    Lib Dem: 6% (=)
    Green: 4% (+1)
    Reform UK: 2% (-1)
    Other: 2% (=)

    *see chart/article notes

    Labour leads by 28% in the Red Wall, enough to win ALL 40 of these seats in the next GE.

    Red Wall VI (19 Feb):
    Labour 55% (+3)
    Conservative 27% (-2)
    Reform UK 10% (+2)
    Lib Dem 4% (-1)
    Green 3% (-1)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (–)
    Other 1% (–)
    Changes +/- 5 Feb

    There has been an uptick in Labour support in the last few weeks. Expelling Corbyn was a masterstroke.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,471
    edited February 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
  • Options
    ErlyErly Posts: 11
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    FF43 said:

    Monkeys said:

    FF43 said:

    Phil said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Kate Forbes doubling down on this on
    @BBCr4today
    asking “are we saying high office is barred to people of faith?”

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1627953251223015424

    Is she trying to tank?

    At least she's being honest.
    Agreed, I admire her for sticking to her principles. The answer to her question is probably yes however: If the tenets of your faith put you out of step with the mainstream of UK opinion on social issues & you’re public about it, you’re going to have problems politically. There’s a reason Alasdair Campbell cut off questions about Blair’s faith with “We don’t do God”.

    The UK is very socially liberal these days on many questions that in the past would have been much more controversial & that holds true across the political spectrum. It’s one of the reasons I’m still proud to be British.
    We should just be honest then and say "if you hold strong religious views, you cannot be Prime Minister / FM as your views disqualify you from being a possible appointment."

    Instead, we have this hypocritical standpoint where we pretend to be all tolerant and accepting but once someone comes along with such views, we then say why they are not acceptable.


    Actually it isn't. If you want to be a leader of a party and a government you are required to defend the policies of your party and the decisions of your government. You can't do the job otherwise, but it is the same for everyone.

    Kate Forbes seems to think her moral principles take precedence over her colleagues' That's a problem.

    Does she though? She's just saying she has certain beliefs, not that they've affected governance.

    At any rate, this is exactly how radical movements fail, they fracture and split over things that have nothing to do with the central goal. Oh well! We are where we are.
    The correct answer for Kate Forbes as a church-going aspiring leader of the SNP and Scottish government to the question, "Do you support gay marriage?" is, Yes. Unequivocally, yes. "Do you support gender recognition by self-identification?" Yes. In this case there may be some technical issues to resolve around implementation but the principle's accepted.

    These are SNP policies implemented by her government and passed in parliament. If she can't defend them she can't be leader. It's a necessary part of her job.
    Bollocks , gender recognition by self-identification is total and utter bollox.
    Is Kate Forbes the only man in Scottish politics?
    Having borne a child I think you will find she is a real woman
    Your participle is dangling.
  • Options
    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,469
    Can it really be possible for the SNP - having watched the Tories elect an obviously complete dud last year - are now, themselves, going to elect an obvious dud themselves?

    Yousaf? Seriously?

    I can only imagine that this is part of some cunning Sturgeon/Murrell plan to ensure her return in a few years or so.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,452

    Enoch Powell was right.

    #Visionary

    Harold Wilson was left.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,038
    edited February 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Good news for those with a large Biden position in their 2024 book.

    For age 80+, reduction in death compared with unvaccinated
    2 shots, no recent booster 72% Bivalent booster 87%

    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1628067636021194753

    Perhaps explains why some GOP state senators want to make administering an mRNA vaccine a felony ?

    It would be good to see the non covid mortality rates too. We know cardiovascular events and new diabeties diagnoses are more common after covid. It would be interesting to see if vaccines also protect against these.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,611
    dixiedean said:


    More likely.
    Folk are getting worse off by the week.
    They're drawing down what savings they have. Or getting deeper into debt.
    And the government seemingly evidently has no plan.

    FTFY
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,611
    Taz said:

    Enoch Powell was right.

    #Visionary

    Harold Wilson was left.
    Except when it suited him to be right. Or centre.
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,470
    TimS said:

    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well I'm back visiting the folks and I've just scored a half of bitter for £1.23. Red Wall rules ok!

    I was in spoons the other day and they had a craft beer at £1.79 a pint. I had a lovely pint of Abbott at £2.29, compared to the other day day in another pub was £5 for guinness and over a fiver for pint of Peroni.
    Looking back to my first years in pubs in the mid 1990s, pints were between £1.20 in the Barrels and £1.70 at the Spread or Lich. They now seem to range from around £3.50 at the cheapest places (I don’t include special offers at chains where there’s other commercial stuff
    going on) and £6.00 in the priciest pubs. Southern England ex-London. So that’s inflation of 100% at lower end to 250% at high end.

    Over 30 years it’s not actually that high an inflation rate.
    At least 100% higher than average wage growth though so twice as expensive £(1990s) for £(2020s)
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,071
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:


    More likely.
    Folk are getting worse off by the week.
    They're drawing down what savings they have. Or getting deeper into debt.
    And the government seemingly evidently has no plan.

    FTFY
    Thank you, Sir.
    Excellent use of the green pen during half term, too.
    I'm too kind.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,471
    edited February 2023

    Can it really be possible for the SNP - having watched the Tories elect an obviously complete dud last year - are now, themselves, going to elect an obvious dud themselves?

    Yousaf? Seriously?

    I can only imagine that this is part of some cunning Sturgeon/Murrell plan to ensure her return in a few years or so.

    And mirror of Johnson hopes

    Who could have predicted even 6 months ago the conservative party and SNP would self combust

    Indeed maybe a lesson for all those predicting the future that not only is 7 days a long time in politics but events do happen that completely change the narrative
  • Options
    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,469
    On the SNP leadership. I did notice that the Editor of Holyrood magazine, a few days ago, tipped Michael Matheson as a possible contender. Low profile but competent, apparently. They could do worse.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,571
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    There is more than enough blame to go around to everyone in respect of the Edinburgh Trams. Even the Inquiry itself has proven a disgrace with Lord Hardie's report now several years overdue and massively over budget.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,471
    edited February 2023
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
  • Options
    Did they never talk to each other? Why is he only learning this now?

    Patrick Harvie calls Kate Forbes' comments opposing same sex marriage 'shocking'.

    Scottish Greens co-leader & minister says they were 'outwith the realms of what's acceptable in modern politics'.

    But stops short of saying alliance between SNP/Greens would end if she became FM
    VIDEO
    https://twitter.com/ITVBorderRB/status/1628077512357031968?s=20
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,611
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    There is more than enough blame to go around to everyone in respect of the Edinburgh Trams. Even the Inquiry itself has proven a disgrace with Lord Hardie's report now several years overdue and massively over budget.
    That's actually quite funny, in a grim way.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    There is more than enough blame to go around to everyone in respect of the Edinburgh Trams. Even the Inquiry itself has proven a disgrace with Lord Hardie's report now several years overdue and massively over budget.
    Except that the SNP didn't want them in the first place. Forced on them by the Tories and everyone else as well.

    Which reminds us that the Greens could do huge damage if the arithmetic you correctly mention was to change.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,611

    Did they never talk to each other? Why is he only learning this now?

    Patrick Harvie calls Kate Forbes' comments opposing same sex marriage 'shocking'.

    Scottish Greens co-leader & minister says they were 'outwith the realms of what's acceptable in modern politics'.

    But stops short of saying alliance between SNP/Greens would end if she became FM
    VIDEO
    https://twitter.com/ITVBorderRB/status/1628077512357031968?s=20

    Would be incredibly funny if Forbes still won and ditched them.

    Especially if she said that it was because she wanted a greener, cleaner Scotland and they are a barrier to that.

    Even more so because it would be true.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173
    edited February 2023

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Deliberately wrecking the tramsport investment budget out of spite and spending much of it on those trams is not a helpful action. Remember, the trams were long before the SNP-Green coalition.

    And the dualling has actually been happening, though I'm not completely up on the dcurrent state.
  • Options
    I’d like to see some elder statesperson in @theSNP step in & call the dogs off @_KateForbes. She was appointed a Cab Sec by the FM in full knowledge of her religious views with which I strongly disagree but this feeding frenzy is unseemly & bad for the party

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1628078827673997312?s=20
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,245
    Republican chairman of the house foreign affairs committee says that the momentum in Washington was shifting towards sending long-range missiles and fighter jets to Ukraine - Reuters
    https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1628093125745836034
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,571

    Did they never talk to each other? Why is he only learning this now?

    Patrick Harvie calls Kate Forbes' comments opposing same sex marriage 'shocking'.

    Scottish Greens co-leader & minister says they were 'outwith the realms of what's acceptable in modern politics'.

    But stops short of saying alliance between SNP/Greens would end if she became FM
    VIDEO
    https://twitter.com/ITVBorderRB/status/1628077512357031968?s=20

    Would you ever speak to Patrick Harvie unless you absolutely had to?
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    Did they never talk to each other? Why is he only learning this now?

    Patrick Harvie calls Kate Forbes' comments opposing same sex marriage 'shocking'.

    Scottish Greens co-leader & minister says they were 'outwith the realms of what's acceptable in modern politics'.

    But stops short of saying alliance between SNP/Greens would end if she became FM
    VIDEO
    https://twitter.com/ITVBorderRB/status/1628077512357031968?s=20

    Would you ever speak to Patrick Harvie unless you absolutely had to?
    Well, you’d probably just have to listen….
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,611

    DavidL said:

    Did they never talk to each other? Why is he only learning this now?

    Patrick Harvie calls Kate Forbes' comments opposing same sex marriage 'shocking'.

    Scottish Greens co-leader & minister says they were 'outwith the realms of what's acceptable in modern politics'.

    But stops short of saying alliance between SNP/Greens would end if she became FM
    VIDEO
    https://twitter.com/ITVBorderRB/status/1628077512357031968?s=20

    Would you ever speak to Patrick Harvie unless you absolutely had to?
    Well, you’d probably just have to listen….
    On those occasions I have heard what he was saying, I didn't feel that it was exactly worth listening to.
  • Options
    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,469

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Ahem. The SNP have been running the Scottish Govt since 2007 and have, repeatedly, pledged to dual the A9 and the A96. Even Fergus Ewing MSP (SNP -Inverness) seems to be losing his rag with his colleagues for failing to deliver. Nothing to do with trams, let alone Tories. And, yes, it is lethal as is the A96.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,571
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    There is more than enough blame to go around to everyone in respect of the Edinburgh Trams. Even the Inquiry itself has proven a disgrace with Lord Hardie's report now several years overdue and massively over budget.
    Except that the SNP didn't want them in the first place. Forced on them by the Tories and everyone else as well.

    Which reminds us that the Greens could do huge damage if the arithmetic you correctly mention was to change.
    The management of the contracts, once granted, was, well, sub-optimal, to put it kindly.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,951
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    There is more than enough blame to go around to everyone in respect of the Edinburgh Trams. Even the Inquiry itself has proven a disgrace with Lord Hardie's report now several years overdue and massively over budget.
    That's actually quite funny, in a grim way.
    It's a disgrace! There should be an inquiry into the inquiry.
  • Options

    Chris Musson
    @ChrisMusson
    ·
    1h
    Source saying Kate Forbes's de facto (great phrase) campaign manager, SNP Business Minister Ivan McKee, may pull his support too. If he does, that's surely it...
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,153
    "Could it be that we soon end up with the leaders of both the Conservative Party nationally and the SNP being of Asian origin?"

    As Humza Yousaf was born in Glasgow and Rishi Sunak in Southampton, no.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173
    edited February 2023
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    There is more than enough blame to go around to everyone in respect of the Edinburgh Trams. Even the Inquiry itself has proven a disgrace with Lord Hardie's report now several years overdue and massively over budget.
    Except that the SNP didn't want them in the first place. Forced on them by the Tories and everyone else as well.

    Which reminds us that the Greens could do huge damage if the arithmetic you correctly mention was to change.
    The management of the contracts, once granted, was, well, sub-optimal, to put it kindly.
    Indeed. Edinburgh Council was not at its best. If there is such a thing.

    But the combination of old infrastructure (which all had to be redone, though that will pay off in the long run) and [edit] unusually heavy engineering for a tram line was always going to be tricky.

    Edit: can't help feeling someone was horrendously optimistic at the start.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,283

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Ahem. The SNP have been running the Scottish Govt since 2007 and have, repeatedly, pledged to dual the A9 and the A96. Even Fergus Ewing MSP (SNP -Inverness) seems to be losing his rag with his colleagues for failing to deliver. Nothing to do with trams, let alone Tories. And, yes, it is lethal as is the A96.
    The A9 is an interesting road in many ways: it goes through some good scenery, but is not that scenic (compared to many other Scottish roads). It also often avoids some picturesque villages. It really needs dualling, and (from memory) some of the short sections if dualled road are probably more dangerous than if it was single carriageway. It also seems a no-brainer for dualling in its entirety, given the places it links.

    So what's the problem? Money? Distance? Will?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173
    edited February 2023
    Chris said:

    "Could it be that we soon end up with the leaders of both the Conservative Party nationally and the SNP being of Asian origin?"

    As Humza Yousaf was born in Glasgow and Rishi Sunak in Southampton, no.

    Nobody mentioned poor Mr Sarwar, if we are talking about family origins.

    But he doesn't count if you follow the Electoral Commission definition of a party, I suppose.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,471
    edited February 2023
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Deliberately wrecking the tramsport investment budget out of spite and spending much of it on those trams is not a helpful action. Remember, the trams were long before the SNP-Green coalition.

    And the dualling has actually been happening, though I'm not completely up on the dcurrent state.
    When we moved from Edinburgh to North Wales in 1965 dualling of the A9 was already an issue

    Today, just 30 miles of the A9 between Perth and Inverness is already a dual carriageway leaving 80 miles to be constructed

    By any measure that is a disgrace by the SNP government and an abandonment of the Highlands and beyond economies

    Forbes is from Dingwall and clearly recognises the importance of the main route through the Highlands to Inverness

    Mind you it could be worse as Drakeford and Welsh labour has cancelled all road building programmes in Wales, including a third crossing of the Menai Straights notwithstanding that Holyhead is expanding as a free port
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,611
    edited February 2023

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Ahem. The SNP have been running the Scottish Govt since 2007 and have, repeatedly, pledged to dual the A9 and the A96. Even Fergus Ewing MSP (SNP -Inverness) seems to be losing his rag with his colleagues for failing to deliver. Nothing to do with trams, let alone Tories. And, yes, it is lethal as is the A96.
    The A9 is an interesting road in many ways: it goes through some good scenery, but is not that scenic (compared to many other Scottish roads). It also often avoids some picturesque villages. It really needs dualling, and (from memory) some of the short sections if dualled road are probably more dangerous than if it was single carriageway. It also seems a no-brainer for dualling in its entirety, given the places it links.

    So what's the problem? Money? Distance? Will?
    It needed dualling when I first drove on it 19 years ago.*

    But it was a long way from Edinburgh and London and there are very few voters there to get mad at them.

    *That's with me as driver - I'd been on it several times before as a passsenger.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,611
    Carnyx said:

    Chris said:

    "Could it be that we soon end up with the leaders of both the Conservative Party nationally and the SNP being of Asian origin?"

    As Humza Yousaf was born in Glasgow and Rishi Sunak in Southampton, no.

    Nobody mentioned poor Mr Sarwar, if we are talking about family origins.

    But he doesn't count if you follow the Electoral Commission definition of a party, I suppose.
    And Sadiq Khan.

    And of course Boris Johnson.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,283
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    There is more than enough blame to go around to everyone in respect of the Edinburgh Trams. Even the Inquiry itself has proven a disgrace with Lord Hardie's report now several years overdue and massively over budget.
    Except that the SNP didn't want them in the first place. Forced on them by the Tories and everyone else as well.

    Which reminds us that the Greens could do huge damage if the arithmetic you correctly mention was to change.
    The management of the contracts, once granted, was, well, sub-optimal, to put it kindly.
    Indeed. Edinburgh Council was not at its best. If there is such a thing.

    But the combination of old infrastructure (which all had to be redone, though that will pay off in the long run) and heavy engineering for a tram line was always going to be tricky.
    The first stage of Edinburgh's tram system seems to have been a mess (We were in Edinburgh just before Christmas, and the phase 2 scheme seems to be progressing well). But many other cities have introduced new tram systems over the last few decades: Manchester, Nottingham, Leeds, Croydon. Was Edinburgh's scheme uniquely mishandled?

    It's not a tramway, but in my part of the world the (mis)guided bus appears to have been a tragic waste of funds and opportunity.

    Also: what are the ridership figures of phase 1 compared to the pre-building predictions?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173
    edited February 2023
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Chris said:

    "Could it be that we soon end up with the leaders of both the Conservative Party nationally and the SNP being of Asian origin?"

    As Humza Yousaf was born in Glasgow and Rishi Sunak in Southampton, no.

    Nobody mentioned poor Mr Sarwar, if we are talking about family origins.

    But he doesn't count if you follow the Electoral Commission definition of a party, I suppose.
    And Sadiq Khan.

    And of course Boris Johnson.
    Neither is a party leader, though ...
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,322
    edited February 2023
    If the SNP choose Yousaf you have to wonder just how low they may go in Westminster seats - because if their vote share goes below approx 35% it will suddenly become very inefficient.

    Could we get Westminster seats something like:

    Lab 30
    SNP 12
    Con 10
    LD 5

    And if that happens Independence is surely finished for a generation.

    Feels a bit like what happened with Corbyn. The far left came pretty close but just a few years later they're finished. Looks like the same may well happen for Independence.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,611
    Carnyx said:



    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Chris said:

    "Could it be that we soon end up with the leaders of both the Conservative Party nationally and the SNP being of Asian origin?"

    As Humza Yousaf was born in Glasgow and Rishi Sunak in Southampton, no.

    Nobody mentioned poor Mr Sarwar, if we are talking about family origins.

    But he doesn't count if you follow the Electoral Commission definition of a party, I suppose.
    And Sadiq Khan.

    And of course Boris Johnson.
    Neither is a party leader, though ...
    Not any more in the case of the second.

    And hopefully never again!
  • Options
    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,469

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Ahem. The SNP have been running the Scottish Govt since 2007 and have, repeatedly, pledged to dual the A9 and the A96. Even Fergus Ewing MSP (SNP -Inverness) seems to be losing his rag with his colleagues for failing to deliver. Nothing to do with trams, let alone Tories. And, yes, it is lethal as is the A96.
    The A9 is an interesting road in many ways: it goes through some good scenery, but is not that scenic (compared to many other Scottish roads). It also often avoids some picturesque villages. It really needs dualling, and (from memory) some of the short sections if dualled road are probably more dangerous than if it was single carriageway. It also seems a no-brainer for dualling in its entirety, given the places it links.

    So what's the problem? Money? Distance? Will?
    Difficult to say. Almost seems a complete lack of interest in the North of Scotland. It's not just the A9. The A96 (Inverness - Aberdeen) is a terrible road and a cause celebre for local communities. The A83 in Argyll is a disaster area with frequent closures. And then, of course, the disaster of all disasters: the ferry contract. It makes you wonder, if Forbes, who is local and is aware of these problems, is indeed sent packing into the wilderness, whether the region might finally tell the SNP to go off and do one.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,153
    Carnyx said:

    Chris said:

    "Could it be that we soon end up with the leaders of both the Conservative Party nationally and the SNP being of Asian origin?"

    As Humza Yousaf was born in Glasgow and Rishi Sunak in Southampton, no.

    Nobody mentioned poor Mr Sarwar, if we are talking about family origins.

    But he doesn't count if you follow the Electoral Commission definition of a party, I suppose.
    If we're talking about family origins, then Asian ancestry isn't much of a novelty. Boris Johnson's Turkish forebears and Iain Duncan Smith's Japanese ones spring immediately to mind. No doubt there are more.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,283

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    Oooh, oooh, can I be that someone? ;)

    It's not looking good at the moment; in fact it's looking a little chaotic, but from my perspective the SNP have a remarkable ability to pull through troubles. The rebel yell of 'independence!' normally pulls everyone together - the recent GRR issues being an obvious and unusual exception.

    I can imagine that in six month's time, we're looking at a new SNP leader sitting securely and looking at polling just as good as a few months ago.

    Or not...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,245
    Interesting moment at the NFU as farmers laugh at Farming Minister Mark Spencer when he tells them that "one of the benefits of Brexit" is border controls.
    https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1627995567962849283
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    There is more than enough blame to go around to everyone in respect of the Edinburgh Trams. Even the Inquiry itself has proven a disgrace with Lord Hardie's report now several years overdue and massively over budget.
    Except that the SNP didn't want them in the first place. Forced on them by the Tories and everyone else as well.

    Which reminds us that the Greens could do huge damage if the arithmetic you correctly mention was to change.
    The management of the contracts, once granted, was, well, sub-optimal, to put it kindly.
    Indeed. Edinburgh Council was not at its best. If there is such a thing.

    But the combination of old infrastructure (which all had to be redone, though that will pay off in the long run) and heavy engineering for a tram line was always going to be tricky.
    The first stage of Edinburgh's tram system seems to have been a mess (We were in Edinburgh just before Christmas, and the phase 2 scheme seems to be progressing well). But many other cities have introduced new tram systems over the last few decades: Manchester, Nottingham, Leeds, Croydon. Was Edinburgh's scheme uniquely mishandled?

    It's not a tramway, but in my part of the world the (mis)guided bus appears to have been a tragic waste of funds and opportunity.

    Also: what are the ridership figures of phase 1 compared to the pre-building predictions?
    I believe part of the problem was the particularly heavy-rail kind of tram chosen, rigfhtly or wrongly. Also Edinburgh is a very old city and the routes included a lot of cellars under the road, unmodernised, services, etc.

    T%he ridership - better than predicted, AFAIK (though covid complicated that of late). This is a recent report:

    https://www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,hell-on-wheels-how-the-edinburgh-tram-project-got-back-on-track
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252
    Erly said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    FF43 said:

    Monkeys said:

    FF43 said:

    Phil said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Kate Forbes doubling down on this on
    @BBCr4today
    asking “are we saying high office is barred to people of faith?”

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1627953251223015424

    Is she trying to tank?

    At least she's being honest.
    Agreed, I admire her for sticking to her principles. The answer to her question is probably yes however: If the tenets of your faith put you out of step with the mainstream of UK opinion on social issues & you’re public about it, you’re going to have problems politically. There’s a reason Alasdair Campbell cut off questions about Blair’s faith with “We don’t do God”.

    The UK is very socially liberal these days on many questions that in the past would have been much more controversial & that holds true across the political spectrum. It’s one of the reasons I’m still proud to be British.
    We should just be honest then and say "if you hold strong religious views, you cannot be Prime Minister / FM as your views disqualify you from being a possible appointment."

    Instead, we have this hypocritical standpoint where we pretend to be all tolerant and accepting but once someone comes along with such views, we then say why they are not acceptable.


    Actually it isn't. If you want to be a leader of a party and a government you are required to defend the policies of your party and the decisions of your government. You can't do the job otherwise, but it is the same for everyone.

    Kate Forbes seems to think her moral principles take precedence over her colleagues' That's a problem.

    Does she though? She's just saying she has certain beliefs, not that they've affected governance.

    At any rate, this is exactly how radical movements fail, they fracture and split over things that have nothing to do with the central goal. Oh well! We are where we are.
    The correct answer for Kate Forbes as a church-going aspiring leader of the SNP and Scottish government to the question, "Do you support gay marriage?" is, Yes. Unequivocally, yes. "Do you support gender recognition by self-identification?" Yes. In this case there may be some technical issues to resolve around implementation but the principle's accepted.

    These are SNP policies implemented by her government and passed in parliament. If she can't defend them she can't be leader. It's a necessary part of her job.
    Bollocks , gender recognition by self-identification is total and utter bollox.
    Is Kate Forbes the only man in Scottish politics?
    Having borne a child I think you will find she is a real woman
    Your participle is dangling.
    My pants hold it up thank you
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    Oooh, oooh, can I be that someone? ;)

    It's not looking good at the moment; in fact it's looking a little chaotic, but from my perspective the SNP have a remarkable ability to pull through troubles. The rebel yell of 'independence!' normally pulls everyone together - the recent GRR issues being an obvious and unusual exception.

    I can imagine that in six month's time, we're looking at a new SNP leader sitting securely and looking at polling just as good as a few months ago.

    Or not...
    Still two and a half days for more candidates. Will we see them?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,611
    edited February 2023
    Chris said:

    Carnyx said:

    Chris said:

    "Could it be that we soon end up with the leaders of both the Conservative Party nationally and the SNP being of Asian origin?"

    As Humza Yousaf was born in Glasgow and Rishi Sunak in Southampton, no.

    Nobody mentioned poor Mr Sarwar, if we are talking about family origins.

    But he doesn't count if you follow the Electoral Commission definition of a party, I suppose.
    If we're talking about family origins, then Asian ancestry isn't much of a novelty. Boris Johnson's Turkish forebears and Iain Duncan Smith's Japanese ones spring immediately to mind. No doubt there are more.
    The Earl of Liverpool (1812-27) was said to have an Indian grandmother.

    That was probably bollocks, put around by his political enemies to try and discredit him, but it was remarkably persistent. Even some of his modern biographers repeat it.
  • Options
    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    Oooh, oooh, can I be that someone? ;)

    It's not looking good at the moment; in fact it's looking a little chaotic, but from my perspective the SNP have a remarkable ability to pull through troubles. The rebel yell of 'independence!' normally pulls everyone together - the recent GRR issues being an obvious and unusual exception.

    I can imagine that in six month's time, we're looking at a new SNP leader sitting securely and looking at polling just as good as a few months ago.

    Or not...
    You could well be right, and perhaps I'm just having a hysterical meltdown, and am going to look like an idiot in a few weeks, months, years.

    But if that involves me believing Humza Yousaf is going to be the one who brings balance to the force, leads us to the promised land...mmm, not seeing it. Nope.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:



    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Chris said:

    "Could it be that we soon end up with the leaders of both the Conservative Party nationally and the SNP being of Asian origin?"

    As Humza Yousaf was born in Glasgow and Rishi Sunak in Southampton, no.

    Nobody mentioned poor Mr Sarwar, if we are talking about family origins.

    But he doesn't count if you follow the Electoral Commission definition of a party, I suppose.
    And Sadiq Khan.

    And of course Boris Johnson.
    Neither is a party leader, though ...
    Not any more in the case of the second.

    And hopefully never again!
    True,l but you can't very well count Messrs Sunak and Johnson as party leaders in the same breath. The OP was ver much along the lines of x of y origin at time t.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Ahem. The SNP have been running the Scottish Govt since 2007 and have, repeatedly, pledged to dual the A9 and the A96. Even Fergus Ewing MSP (SNP -Inverness) seems to be losing his rag with his colleagues for failing to deliver. Nothing to do with trams, let alone Tories. And, yes, it is lethal as is the A96.
    The A9 is an interesting road in many ways: it goes through some good scenery, but is not that scenic (compared to many other Scottish roads). It also often avoids some picturesque villages. It really needs dualling, and (from memory) some of the short sections if dualled road are probably more dangerous than if it was single carriageway. It also seems a no-brainer for dualling in its entirety, given the places it links.

    So what's the problem? Money? Distance? Will?
    Difficult to say. Almost seems a complete lack of interest in the North of Scotland. It's not just the A9. The A96 (Inverness - Aberdeen) is a terrible road and a cause celebre for local communities. The A83 in Argyll is a disaster area with frequent closures. And then, of course, the disaster of all disasters: the ferry contract. It makes you wonder, if Forbes, who is local and is aware of these problems, is indeed sent packing into the wilderness, whether the region might finally tell the SNP to go off and do one.
    What alternative do they have that would even match their little. They are following a great tradition. Mind you they don't even hav ea motorway between Glasgow and Edinburgh , merely a dual carriageway. The money is all needed for London infrastructure.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252
    MikeL said:

    If the SNP choose Yousaf you have to wonder just how low they may go in Westminster seats - because if their vote share goes below approx 35% it will suddenly become very inefficient.

    Could we get Westminster seats something like:

    Lab 30
    SNP 12
    Con 10
    LD 5

    And if that happens Independence is surely finished for a generation.

    Feels a bit like what happened with Corbyn. The far left came pretty close but just a few years later they're finished. Looks like the same may well happen for Independence.

    You can wish
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    There is more than enough blame to go around to everyone in respect of the Edinburgh Trams. Even the Inquiry itself has proven a disgrace with Lord Hardie's report now several years overdue and massively over budget.
    Except that the SNP didn't want them in the first place. Forced on them by the Tories and everyone else as well.

    Which reminds us that the Greens could do huge damage if the arithmetic you correctly mention was to change.
    The management of the contracts, once granted, was, well, sub-optimal, to put it kindly.
    Indeed. Edinburgh Council was not at its best. If there is such a thing.

    But the combination of old infrastructure (which all had to be redone, though that will pay off in the long run) and heavy engineering for a tram line was always going to be tricky.
    The first stage of Edinburgh's tram system seems to have been a mess (We were in Edinburgh just before Christmas, and the phase 2 scheme seems to be progressing well). But many other cities have introduced new tram systems over the last few decades: Manchester, Nottingham, Leeds, Croydon. Was Edinburgh's scheme uniquely mishandled?

    It's not a tramway, but in my part of the world the (mis)guided bus appears to have been a tragic waste of funds and opportunity.

    Also: what are the ridership figures of phase 1 compared to the pre-building predictions?
    Another Labour debacle.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,951
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Ahem. The SNP have been running the Scottish Govt since 2007 and have, repeatedly, pledged to dual the A9 and the A96. Even Fergus Ewing MSP (SNP -Inverness) seems to be losing his rag with his colleagues for failing to deliver. Nothing to do with trams, let alone Tories. And, yes, it is lethal as is the A96.
    The A9 is an interesting road in many ways: it goes through some good scenery, but is not that scenic (compared to many other Scottish roads). It also often avoids some picturesque villages. It really needs dualling, and (from memory) some of the short sections if dualled road are probably more dangerous than if it was single carriageway. It also seems a no-brainer for dualling in its entirety, given the places it links.

    So what's the problem? Money? Distance? Will?
    Difficult to say. Almost seems a complete lack of interest in the North of Scotland. It's not just the A9. The A96 (Inverness - Aberdeen) is a terrible road and a cause celebre for local communities. The A83 in Argyll is a disaster area with frequent closures. And then, of course, the disaster of all disasters: the ferry contract. It makes you wonder, if Forbes, who is local and is aware of these problems, is indeed sent packing into the wilderness, whether the region might finally tell the SNP to go off and do one.
    What alternative do they have that would even match their little. They are following a great tradition. Mind you they don't even hav ea motorway between Glasgow and Edinburgh , merely a dual carriageway. The money is all needed for London infrastructure.
    The M8 is not a motorway?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,611
    malcolmg said:

    MikeL said:

    If the SNP choose Yousaf you have to wonder just how low they may go in Westminster seats - because if their vote share goes below approx 35% it will suddenly become very inefficient.

    Could we get Westminster seats something like:

    Lab 30
    SNP 12
    Con 10
    LD 5

    And if that happens Independence is surely finished for a generation.

    Feels a bit like what happened with Corbyn. The far left came pretty close but just a few years later they're finished. Looks like the same may well happen for Independence.

    You can wish
    But only Yousaf can deliver...
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,460

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    It’s not that bad
  • Options
    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    DougSeal said:

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    It’s not that bad
    Ah, good. Phew.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,173

    DougSeal said:

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    It’s not that bad
    Ah, good. Phew.
    He hasn't won yet ...
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    I totally agree but you were far too nice about Sturgeon, her and The Magpie have done well for themselves assuming they avoid incarceration and they have left all their weird o crew of misfits , no users, grifters and troughers everywhere there is a big pay day. Will be years to clear all that dross out for sure.
    Only hope is that Regan wins it , she at least wants independence.
  • Options
    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,469
    Even John Crace at The Guardian has got in on the Kate Forbes act.

    "Within a few hours of launching her leadership campaign on Monday lunchtime, Forbes had given a series of interviews in which she restated her opposition to same-sex marriage. The Bible didn’t like it, she insisted. Her hands were tied. She didn’t quite get round to saying that several of her fellow SNP MSPs and MPs were damned. But give her time."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/21/forbes-doubles-down-and-torpedoes-snp-chances-pass-the-idiot-pills
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,283

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    Oooh, oooh, can I be that someone? ;)

    It's not looking good at the moment; in fact it's looking a little chaotic, but from my perspective the SNP have a remarkable ability to pull through troubles. The rebel yell of 'independence!' normally pulls everyone together - the recent GRR issues being an obvious and unusual exception.

    I can imagine that in six month's time, we're looking at a new SNP leader sitting securely and looking at polling just as good as a few months ago.

    Or not...
    You could well be right, and perhaps I'm just having a hysterical meltdown, and am going to look like an idiot in a few weeks, months, years.

    But if that involves me believing Humza Yousaf is going to be the one who brings balance to the force, leads us to the promised land...mmm, not seeing it. Nope.
    I'm veering ono dangerous territory here, but what is 'the promised land' ? Independence will be very hard for any Scottish leader to deliver, with many hurdles in the way - both within and outside Scotland. If 'the promised land' is continued SNP control of Scotland, then that is a much easier task.

    One of the criticisms from some seems to be that Sturgeon was more interested in the latter than the former. Yet that is by far the easier path. Is it better for the party to get independence, or continually dangle it in front of supporters' noses?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Deliberately wrecking the tramsport investment budget out of spite and spending much of it on those trams is not a helpful action. Remember, the trams were long before the SNP-Green coalition.

    And the dualling has actually been happening, though I'm not completely up on the dcurrent state.
    When we moved from Edinburgh to North Wales in 1965 dualling of the A9 was already an issue

    Today, just 30 miles of the A9 between Perth and Inverness is already a dual carriageway leaving 80 miles to be constructed

    By any measure that is a disgrace by the SNP government and an abandonment of the Highlands and beyond economies

    Forbes is from Dingwall and clearly recognises the importance of the main route through the Highlands to Inverness

    Mind you it could be worse as Drakeford and Welsh labour has cancelled all road building programmes in Wales, including a third crossing of the Menai Straights notwithstanding that Holyhead is expanding as a free port
    G you missed out the Tory & labour shitshow in the biggest part of that timescale, they did nothing in almost 40 years, at least the SNP have duelled a few miles.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,107
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting moment at the NFU as farmers laugh at Farming Minister Mark Spencer when he tells them that "one of the benefits of Brexit" is border controls.
    https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1627995567962849283

    Farmers were warned they would be screwed with Brexit . How stupid must you be to trust the Tories who have for years been trying to lower the subsidies when the UK was in the EU . I feel very sorry for farmers who voted Remain realizing they were being sold a pack of lies . For those who voted Leave , zero sympathy .
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252


    Chris Musson
    @ChrisMusson
    ·
    1h
    Source saying Kate Forbes's de facto (great phrase) campaign manager, SNP Business Minister Ivan McKee, may pull his support too. If he does, that's surely it...

    He is a no user , she should be beaten for that alone.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,611
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Deliberately wrecking the tramsport investment budget out of spite and spending much of it on those trams is not a helpful action. Remember, the trams were long before the SNP-Green coalition.

    And the dualling has actually been happening, though I'm not completely up on the dcurrent state.
    When we moved from Edinburgh to North Wales in 1965 dualling of the A9 was already an issue

    Today, just 30 miles of the A9 between Perth and Inverness is already a dual carriageway leaving 80 miles to be constructed

    By any measure that is a disgrace by the SNP government and an abandonment of the Highlands and beyond economies

    Forbes is from Dingwall and clearly recognises the importance of the main route through the Highlands to Inverness

    Mind you it could be worse as Drakeford and Welsh labour has cancelled all road building programmes in Wales, including a third crossing of the Menai Straights notwithstanding that Holyhead is expanding as a free port
    G you missed out the Tory & labour shitshow in the biggest part of that timescale, they did nothing in almost 40 years, at least the SNP have duelled a few miles.
    Parts of it were dualled in the late 1990s, but ina way that made it more dangerous because people would race along and suddenly run out of road.

    I think the key issue is this is an area devolution was supposed to solve - remote areas being neglected by the distant powers that be.

    So far, so not very good.
  • Options
    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    Carnyx said:

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    Oooh, oooh, can I be that someone? ;)

    It's not looking good at the moment; in fact it's looking a little chaotic, but from my perspective the SNP have a remarkable ability to pull through troubles. The rebel yell of 'independence!' normally pulls everyone together - the recent GRR issues being an obvious and unusual exception.

    I can imagine that in six month's time, we're looking at a new SNP leader sitting securely and looking at polling just as good as a few months ago.

    Or not...
    Still two and a half days for more candidates. Will we see them?
    Jeez, it's almost bad enough to make me want Robertson to stand. But not that bad.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    Oooh, oooh, can I be that someone? ;)

    It's not looking good at the moment; in fact it's looking a little chaotic, but from my perspective the SNP have a remarkable ability to pull through troubles. The rebel yell of 'independence!' normally pulls everyone together - the recent GRR issues being an obvious and unusual exception.

    I can imagine that in six month's time, we're looking at a new SNP leader sitting securely and looking at polling just as good as a few months ago.

    Or not...
    You could well be right, and perhaps I'm just having a hysterical meltdown, and am going to look like an idiot in a few weeks, months, years.

    But if that involves me believing Humza Yousaf is going to be the one who brings balance to the force, leads us to the promised land...mmm, not seeing it. Nope.
    I'm veering ono dangerous territory here, but what is 'the promised land' ? Independence will be very hard for any Scottish leader to deliver, with many hurdles in the way - both within and outside Scotland. If 'the promised land' is continued SNP control of Scotland, then that is a much easier task.

    One of the criticisms from some seems to be that Sturgeon was more interested in the latter than the former. Yet that is by far the easier path. Is it better for the party to get independence, or continually dangle it in front of supporters' noses?
    She dangled it too often so good riddance to bad rubbish. Deliberately sabotaged it.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies

    1964 ... there was plenty of sex before marriage then ... even in 1864, there was plenty.

    Her views may have been fashionable in 1564.
  • Options
    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    Oooh, oooh, can I be that someone? ;)

    It's not looking good at the moment; in fact it's looking a little chaotic, but from my perspective the SNP have a remarkable ability to pull through troubles. The rebel yell of 'independence!' normally pulls everyone together - the recent GRR issues being an obvious and unusual exception.

    I can imagine that in six month's time, we're looking at a new SNP leader sitting securely and looking at polling just as good as a few months ago.

    Or not...
    You could well be right, and perhaps I'm just having a hysterical meltdown, and am going to look like an idiot in a few weeks, months, years.

    But if that involves me believing Humza Yousaf is going to be the one who brings balance to the force, leads us to the promised land...mmm, not seeing it. Nope.
    I'm veering ono dangerous territory here, but what is 'the promised land' ? Independence will be very hard for any Scottish leader to deliver, with many hurdles in the way - both within and outside Scotland. If 'the promised land' is continued SNP control of Scotland, then that is a much easier task.

    One of the criticisms from some seems to be that Sturgeon was more interested in the latter than the former. Yet that is by far the easier path. Is it better for the party to get independence, or continually dangle it in front of supporters' noses?
    It was a tongue-in-cheek reference, nothing more. I'm aware independence will be difficult both to deliver and then to deal with going forward - I just meant it as the supposed ultimate end goal of the SNP.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Ahem. The SNP have been running the Scottish Govt since 2007 and have, repeatedly, pledged to dual the A9 and the A96. Even Fergus Ewing MSP (SNP -Inverness) seems to be losing his rag with his colleagues for failing to deliver. Nothing to do with trams, let alone Tories. And, yes, it is lethal as is the A96.
    The A9 is an interesting road in many ways: it goes through some good scenery, but is not that scenic (compared to many other Scottish roads). It also often avoids some picturesque villages. It really needs dualling, and (from memory) some of the short sections if dualled road are probably more dangerous than if it was single carriageway. It also seems a no-brainer for dualling in its entirety, given the places it links.

    So what's the problem? Money? Distance? Will?
    Difficult to say. Almost seems a complete lack of interest in the North of Scotland. It's not just the A9. The A96 (Inverness - Aberdeen) is a terrible road and a cause celebre for local communities. The A83 in Argyll is a disaster area with frequent closures. And then, of course, the disaster of all disasters: the ferry contract. It makes you wonder, if Forbes, who is local and is aware of these problems, is indeed sent packing into the wilderness, whether the region might finally tell the SNP to go off and do one.
    What alternative do they have that would even match their little. They are following a great tradition. Mind you they don't even hav ea motorway between Glasgow and Edinburgh , merely a dual carriageway. The money is all needed for London infrastructure.
    The M8 is not a motorway?
    No it is a pretendy one , only two lanees so a dual carriageway in any normal persons language.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    One other point that is worth bearing in mind. There are 129 MSPs. At the last election the SNP got 64 seats. One of the MSPs from the Greens became the Presiding Officer and renounced her party affiliations on being selected. Which leaves an opposition of 64, total.

    Nicola's pact with the Greens was never needed to have a majority at Holyrood. Sure, it made her position more comfortable and it seemed to reflect her own predilections quite well, but the SNP would remain in power even if the Greens walked away from government. The price the SNP have paid for that pact has been considerable, including hostility to what used to be called Scotland's oil, the GRR nonsense, the bottle deposit scheme and the cancellation of the dualling of the A9.

    Forbes has made it clear it is time for the tail to stop wagging the dog and has never hid her contempt for the Greens. Yousaf seems keen to keep them onboard. I will be interested to see how many SNP members have had enough of this nonsense.

    The Scottish Greens seem content to be little Sir Echo.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,252
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    MikeL said:

    If the SNP choose Yousaf you have to wonder just how low they may go in Westminster seats - because if their vote share goes below approx 35% it will suddenly become very inefficient.

    Could we get Westminster seats something like:

    Lab 30
    SNP 12
    Con 10
    LD 5

    And if that happens Independence is surely finished for a generation.

    Feels a bit like what happened with Corbyn. The far left came pretty close but just a few years later they're finished. Looks like the same may well happen for Independence.

    You can wish
    But only Yousaf can deliver...
    He would not get employed by Domino's
  • Options
    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies

    1964 ... there was plenty of sex before marriage then ... even in 1864, there was plenty.

    Her views may have been fashionable in 1564.
    Well, you get the gist.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,522

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    Covid coming along was bad for Sindy imo. It took the focus off the Brexit monstrosity. Leveraging that to make Sindy a slam dunk, being all One Nation to lead through the pandemic, Sturgeon couldn't do both.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,611

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies

    1964 ... there was plenty of sex before marriage then ... even in 1864, there was plenty.

    Her views may have been fashionable in 1564.
    You mean, just before Henry VIII started shagging all his wives' ladies in waiting?

    Ah, hold on, he died in 1547.

    And who could forget Edward IV, whose memorable response to his mother's furious protest at his marrying a middle-ranking widow was, 'well, she's got two sons and though I'm not married I've got a few myself, so you should have lots of healthy grandsons very soon?'
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,283
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    There is more than enough blame to go around to everyone in respect of the Edinburgh Trams. Even the Inquiry itself has proven a disgrace with Lord Hardie's report now several years overdue and massively over budget.
    Except that the SNP didn't want them in the first place. Forced on them by the Tories and everyone else as well.

    Which reminds us that the Greens could do huge damage if the arithmetic you correctly mention was to change.
    The management of the contracts, once granted, was, well, sub-optimal, to put it kindly.
    Indeed. Edinburgh Council was not at its best. If there is such a thing.

    But the combination of old infrastructure (which all had to be redone, though that will pay off in the long run) and heavy engineering for a tram line was always going to be tricky.
    The first stage of Edinburgh's tram system seems to have been a mess (We were in Edinburgh just before Christmas, and the phase 2 scheme seems to be progressing well). But many other cities have introduced new tram systems over the last few decades: Manchester, Nottingham, Leeds, Croydon. Was Edinburgh's scheme uniquely mishandled?

    It's not a tramway, but in my part of the world the (mis)guided bus appears to have been a tragic waste of funds and opportunity.

    Also: what are the ridership figures of phase 1 compared to the pre-building predictions?
    I believe part of the problem was the particularly heavy-rail kind of tram chosen, rigfhtly or wrongly. Also Edinburgh is a very old city and the routes included a lot of cellars under the road, unmodernised, services, etc.

    T%he ridership - better than predicted, AFAIK (though covid complicated that of late). This is a recent report:

    https://www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,hell-on-wheels-how-the-edinburgh-tram-project-got-back-on-track
    Thanks for that. From it, it seems that although ridership is higher than projected, it is also loss-making. Although that is not necessarily a problem as other advantages (e.g. taking cars off the road) might compensate.

    But that inquiry... Oh my god. How is that even possible? Can we have an inquiry into the inquiry, please? It might just finalise its report just before the heat-death of the universe...
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    Always someone else's fault, isn't it?
  • Options
    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,469
    Carnyx said:

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    Oooh, oooh, can I be that someone? ;)

    It's not looking good at the moment; in fact it's looking a little chaotic, but from my perspective the SNP have a remarkable ability to pull through troubles. The rebel yell of 'independence!' normally pulls everyone together - the recent GRR issues being an obvious and unusual exception.

    I can imagine that in six month's time, we're looking at a new SNP leader sitting securely and looking at polling just as good as a few months ago.

    Or not...
    Still two and a half days for more candidates. Will we see them?
    Just looked at the ScotGov Cabinet. The undeclared ones are: Shirley-Anne Somerville (who?), Keith Brown (Dep Leader but dull as ditchwater);Mairi Gougeon (looks quite nice); Michael Matheson (obscure but reputedly competent); and Shona Robison (who usually looks like she's about to burst into tears).

    Fancy any of them?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,951
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Ahem. The SNP have been running the Scottish Govt since 2007 and have, repeatedly, pledged to dual the A9 and the A96. Even Fergus Ewing MSP (SNP -Inverness) seems to be losing his rag with his colleagues for failing to deliver. Nothing to do with trams, let alone Tories. And, yes, it is lethal as is the A96.
    The A9 is an interesting road in many ways: it goes through some good scenery, but is not that scenic (compared to many other Scottish roads). It also often avoids some picturesque villages. It really needs dualling, and (from memory) some of the short sections if dualled road are probably more dangerous than if it was single carriageway. It also seems a no-brainer for dualling in its entirety, given the places it links.

    So what's the problem? Money? Distance? Will?
    Difficult to say. Almost seems a complete lack of interest in the North of Scotland. It's not just the A9. The A96 (Inverness - Aberdeen) is a terrible road and a cause celebre for local communities. The A83 in Argyll is a disaster area with frequent closures. And then, of course, the disaster of all disasters: the ferry contract. It makes you wonder, if Forbes, who is local and is aware of these problems, is indeed sent packing into the wilderness, whether the region might finally tell the SNP to go off and do one.
    What alternative do they have that would even match their little. They are following a great tradition. Mind you they don't even hav ea motorway between Glasgow and Edinburgh , merely a dual carriageway. The money is all needed for London infrastructure.
    The M8 is not a motorway?
    No it is a pretendy one , only two lanees so a dual carriageway in any normal persons language.
    You've not been to France then?
  • Options

    Can it really be possible for the SNP - having watched the Tories elect an obviously complete dud last year - are now, themselves, going to elect an obvious dud themselves?

    Yousaf? Seriously?

    I can only imagine that this is part of some cunning Sturgeon/Murrell plan to ensure her return in a few years or so.

    And mirror of Johnson hopes

    Who could have predicted even 6 months ago the conservative party and SNP would self combust

    Indeed maybe a lesson for all those predicting the future that not only is 7 days a long time in politics but events do happen that completely change the narrative
    That lesson is never learned.

    We're currently hearing about the decades to come of the Greater Starmerreich.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,571

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Ahem. The SNP have been running the Scottish Govt since 2007 and have, repeatedly, pledged to dual the A9 and the A96. Even Fergus Ewing MSP (SNP -Inverness) seems to be losing his rag with his colleagues for failing to deliver. Nothing to do with trams, let alone Tories. And, yes, it is lethal as is the A96.

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    Yeah but when the Tories were going through this with May, Boris, Truss and now Sunak you thought it was funny. What goes around comes around.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    ydoethur said:

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies

    1964 ... there was plenty of sex before marriage then ... even in 1864, there was plenty.

    Her views may have been fashionable in 1564.
    You mean, just before Henry VIII started shagging all his wives' ladies in waiting?

    Ah, hold on, he died in 1547.

    And who could forget Edward IV, whose memorable response to his mother's furious protest at his marrying a middle-ranking widow was, 'well, she's got two sons and though I'm not married I've got a few myself, so you should have lots of healthy grandsons very soon?'
    We're talking Scotland, @ydoethur.

    Not the licentious English court. Scottish kings and queens, please.

    Still James VI had his .. erm .. favourites -- but the Calvinists hated him, no.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,689
    ydoethur said:

    Keir Starmer's contract with the Devil must be quite something.



    . .
  • Options
    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Ahem. The SNP have been running the Scottish Govt since 2007 and have, repeatedly, pledged to dual the A9 and the A96. Even Fergus Ewing MSP (SNP -Inverness) seems to be losing his rag with his colleagues for failing to deliver. Nothing to do with trams, let alone Tories. And, yes, it is lethal as is the A96.

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    Yeah but when the Tories were going through this with May, Boris, Truss and now Sunak you thought it was funny. What goes around comes around.
    Yup. Let me wipe the egg off my face.

    Though May, Boris and Truss was funny, let's be clear.
  • Options
    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    Carnyx said:

    The SNP have fucked it, in the views of this member of the party. We will be looking back in a couple of years and recognising that they had everything they needed over the period 2016-2022 to make Scottish independence a reality and the over-cautious and timid Sturgeon screwed it up, then fucked off and left the choice of leader to be (at this stage, but increasingly looking like the reality) a total hellscape shitstorm.

    A nobody in Ash Regan who is being solidly ignored by the media even though there's only three candidates so far (presumably as the only one who actually sounds like they want independence), the religious Kate Forbes who though functionally competent and photogenic actively harms herself every time she's asked about anything because her views sound like something from 1964, even if they've nothing to do with her policies (which have yet to be stated), and Humza fucking Yousaf.

    If it's the latter then syonara to both independence and SNP's large election winning victories.

    Well done guys, well done. SLOW HANDCLAP.

    I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me it's not that bad, but, mmm, yes it does appear that bad from where I'm sitting right now.

    Oooh, oooh, can I be that someone? ;)

    It's not looking good at the moment; in fact it's looking a little chaotic, but from my perspective the SNP have a remarkable ability to pull through troubles. The rebel yell of 'independence!' normally pulls everyone together - the recent GRR issues being an obvious and unusual exception.

    I can imagine that in six month's time, we're looking at a new SNP leader sitting securely and looking at polling just as good as a few months ago.

    Or not...
    Still two and a half days for more candidates. Will we see them?
    Just looked at the ScotGov Cabinet. The undeclared ones are: Shirley-Anne Somerville (who?), Keith Brown (Dep Leader but dull as ditchwater);Mairi Gougeon (looks quite nice); Michael Matheson (obscure but reputedly competent); and Shona Robison (who usually looks like she's about to burst into tears).

    Fancy any of them?
    Brown has ruled himself out.
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Ahem. The SNP have been running the Scottish Govt since 2007 and have, repeatedly, pledged to dual the A9 and the A96. Even Fergus Ewing MSP (SNP -Inverness) seems to be losing his rag with his colleagues for failing to deliver. Nothing to do with trams, let alone Tories. And, yes, it is lethal as is the A96.
    The A9 is an interesting road in many ways: it goes through some good scenery, but is not that scenic (compared to many other Scottish roads). It also often avoids some picturesque villages. It really needs dualling, and (from memory) some of the short sections if dualled road are probably more dangerous than if it was single carriageway. It also seems a no-brainer for dualling in its entirety, given the places it links.

    So what's the problem? Money? Distance? Will?
    Difficult to say. Almost seems a complete lack of interest in the North of Scotland. It's not just the A9. The A96 (Inverness - Aberdeen) is a terrible road and a cause celebre for local communities. The A83 in Argyll is a disaster area with frequent closures. And then, of course, the disaster of all disasters: the ferry contract. It makes you wonder, if Forbes, who is local and is aware of these problems, is indeed sent packing into the wilderness, whether the region might finally tell the SNP to go off and do one.
    What alternative do they have that would even match their little. They are following a great tradition. Mind you they don't even hav ea motorway between Glasgow and Edinburgh , merely a dual carriageway. The money is all needed for London infrastructure.
    The M8 is not a motorway?
    No it is a pretendy one , only two lanees so a dual carriageway in any normal persons language.
    A lot of the English cars have steering wheels.....
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Ahem. The SNP have been running the Scottish Govt since 2007 and have, repeatedly, pledged to dual the A9 and the A96. Even Fergus Ewing MSP (SNP -Inverness) seems to be losing his rag with his colleagues for failing to deliver. Nothing to do with trams, let alone Tories. And, yes, it is lethal as is the A96.
    The A9 is an interesting road in many ways: it goes through some good scenery, but is not that scenic (compared to many other Scottish roads). It also often avoids some picturesque villages. It really needs dualling, and (from memory) some of the short sections if dualled road are probably more dangerous than if it was single carriageway. It also seems a no-brainer for dualling in its entirety, given the places it links.

    So what's the problem? Money? Distance? Will?
    Difficult to say. Almost seems a complete lack of interest in the North of Scotland. It's not just the A9. The A96 (Inverness - Aberdeen) is a terrible road and a cause celebre for local communities. The A83 in Argyll is a disaster area with frequent closures. And then, of course, the disaster of all disasters: the ferry contract. It makes you wonder, if Forbes, who is local and is aware of these problems, is indeed sent packing into the wilderness, whether the region might finally tell the SNP to go off and do one.
    What alternative do they have that would even match their little. They are following a great tradition. Mind you they don't even hav ea motorway between Glasgow and Edinburgh , merely a dual carriageway. The money is all needed for London infrastructure.
    The M8 is not a motorway?
    No it is a pretendy one , only two lanees so a dual carriageway in any normal persons language.
    Two lanes ... gosh ... I don't think we have anything like that in Meirionnydd.

    And we won't be getting anything, as the Welsh Govt has cancelled all road building.

    Back to the Stone Age with the Drake & Llafur.
  • Options
    Can we all make a collective promise to each other not to talk about spanking the monkey again?
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fantastic result for Douglas Ross, Sunak and Scottish Conservatives if it is Yousaf.

    He will be far less popular with their 2019 voters than Forbes would have been. In fact even less popular with Scottish Tories than Sturgeon

    Good evening

    We do not agree too often but on this I do

    Forbes had the possibility of attracting Scons, not least as her pro the oil and gas industry plus her commitment to dualling the A9 would be popular with the conservatives

    Indeed the dualling of the A9 or lack of it has been a failure of the SNP, indeed one of many failures

    Furthermore, there may have been a little wee bit of hyping labour chances if Yousaf and Sarwar/Starmer fight for the left vote

    These are interesting times in Scottish politics and frankly until this all settles down, polls are likely to be all over the place
    Tories shouldn't have voted for the Edinburgh trams if they wanted the A9 dualled.
    The dualling of the A9 is not a party political subject but a real need for the economies of the Highlands and beyond

    It is also a lethal road and very frustrating to drive along as I have done for over 60 years

    I would suggest blaming the conservatives is like blaming labour for the last 13 years
    Deliberately wrecking the tramsport investment budget out of spite and spending much of it on those trams is not a helpful action. Remember, the trams were long before the SNP-Green coalition.

    And the dualling has actually been happening, though I'm not completely up on the dcurrent state.
    When we moved from Edinburgh to North Wales in 1965 dualling of the A9 was already an issue

    Today, just 30 miles of the A9 between Perth and Inverness is already a dual carriageway leaving 80 miles to be constructed

    By any measure that is a disgrace by the SNP government and an abandonment of the Highlands and beyond economies

    Forbes is from Dingwall and clearly recognises the importance of the main route through the Highlands to Inverness

    Mind you it could be worse as Drakeford and Welsh labour has cancelled all road building programmes in Wales, including a third crossing of the Menai Straights notwithstanding that Holyhead is expanding as a free port
    G you missed out the Tory & labour shitshow in the biggest part of that timescale, they did nothing in almost 40 years, at least the SNP have duelled a few miles.
    Good evening Malc

    I agree that the duelling of the A9 covers various Scottish Government's but the SNP have been in power in effect since 2007 and a lot more than 30 miles should have been completed by now

    You can understand why Forbes is in favour of it and her support for the oil industry is also understandable due to her connections with Scotlands North and North East

    I really think the conservatives will be pleased if she fails as both of these are very much conservative policies
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,069
    DavidL said:

    One other point that is worth bearing in mind. There are 129 MSPs. At the last election the SNP got 64 seats. One of the MSPs from the Greens became the Presiding Officer and renounced her party affiliations on being selected. Which leaves an opposition of 64, total.

    Nicola's pact with the Greens was never needed to have a majority at Holyrood. Sure, it made her position more comfortable and it seemed to reflect her own predilections quite well, but the SNP would remain in power even if the Greens walked away from government. The price the SNP have paid for that pact has been considerable, including hostility to what used to be called Scotland's oil, the GRR nonsense, the bottle deposit scheme and the cancellation of the dualling of the A9.

    Forbes has made it clear it is time for the tail to stop wagging the dog and has never hid her contempt for the Greens. Yousaf seems keen to keep them onboard. I will be interested to see how many SNP members have had enough of this nonsense.

    I can name one. 😆
This discussion has been closed.