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The 100 days offensive – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,219
edited February 2023 in General
The 100 days offensive – politicalbetting.com

While Sunak has reduced the Conservative's VI deficit compared to Truss, the Tories still trail Labour by almost 20ptshttps://t.co/cd0dHNyZWm pic.twitter.com/aCkfKusWB4

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Comments

  • Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    The Apocalypse begins with TSE's first post, as avian flu stalks the world, China invades America and the Fife coast shows ominous portents.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    I've never worked in a ministerial department, so I don't what it's like, but what surprises me about this is the implication that quite a lot of civil servants work in and around the minister. In my mind, the minister works with the permanent secretary and perhaps the next few down from them, but I wouldn't have thought they'd have that close contact with many others.
  • tlg86 said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    I've never worked in a ministerial department, so I don't what it's like, but what surprises me about this is the implication that quite a lot of civil servants work in and around the minister. In my mind, the minister works with the permanent secretary and perhaps the next few down from them, but I wouldn't have thought they'd have that close contact with many others.
    The way I understand it is that say at Justice, you'll have civil servants who focus on HMCTS, some who work on prisons, some on the Lord Chancellor's functions etc.

    So when a certain subject requires the Secretary of State to get involved the relevant civil servants (and ministers) will deal with the minister.
  • Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
  • Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    It seems that the stench continues unabated in No.10....

    I wonder whether it is incompetence or indifference?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Presumably this is why the Chairman has not yet been replaced. Sunak is expecting to have to reshuffle again imminently.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300

    I'm hoping for a quiet stint as PB editor.

    I though the header title might be a reference to your time in charge.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,571
    tlg86 said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    I've never worked in a ministerial department, so I don't what it's like, but what surprises me about this is the implication that quite a lot of civil servants work in and around the minister. In my mind, the minister works with the permanent secretary and perhaps the next few down from them, but I wouldn't have thought they'd have that close contact with many others.
    FWIW, I worked in a couple of Ministries (coming in as PPS for Defra and Energy/Science), and civil servants popped in and out all the time, as well as 2-3 sitting in on more formal meetings with the Ministerial/PPS teams. I didn't know them well enough to judge if they were intimately familiar, but they seemed pretty friendly. I think they'd have noticed if any of us were bullying types. Similarly I visit Defra now and then in my present role, and the current Ministers seem ro know their civil servants (and seem on good terms with them). I agree that "dozens" sounds like a lot, and there may be an element of peer support going on.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,937
    Phew, a new thread. The humanitarianism surrounding Shamima Begum's late children, peppering the final page of the last thread was choking me up.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Apparently he has good taste in wine.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,897
    Yes, grim. Yes, the party is currently ungovernable. But so what.

    From a PB viewpoint, there are two issues; what is good for the country and what are the betting positions to hold.

    It seems to me that what is good for the country is that, having decided it is time for a change, the Tories don't trash the UK more than necessary and that they place themselves in a position where there is the possibility of them becoming a morally OK One Nation Christian Democrat party again.

    Sunak isn't perfect, but he isn't consciously trying to trash the country, unlike predecessors, and he has the capacity to lose the next GE without looking like Trump.

    While it would be nice if he was also going to reform the Tories while in office, it can't be done because it is rebuilding a ship in the middle of the ocean during a storm. 5 -10 years in dry dock will help.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    tlg86 said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    I've never worked in a ministerial department, so I don't what it's like, but what surprises me about this is the implication that quite a lot of civil servants work in and around the minister. In my mind, the minister works with the permanent secretary and perhaps the next few down from them, but I wouldn't have thought they'd have that close contact with many others.
    That might be a matter of ministerial choice, though ?
    Nothing to stop Raab going for a stroll round the department.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,937

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    It seems that the stench continues unabated in No.10....

    I wonder whether it is incompetence or indifference?
    A blocked drain? Although they cleared the place of an enormous t*rd last September. Still no better?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,067

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    It’s no surprise that the Government treat the electorate like shit when they can’t even respect their own civil servants.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    I've never worked in a ministerial department, so I don't what it's like, but what surprises me about this is the implication that quite a lot of civil servants work in and around the minister. In my mind, the minister works with the permanent secretary and perhaps the next few down from them, but I wouldn't have thought they'd have that close contact with many others.
    That might be a matter of ministerial choice, though ?
    Nothing to stop Raab going for a stroll round the department.
    'You mean he's loose in the building?! If he's restless, he can feed the ducks in St James' Park!'
  • ydoethur said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Apparently he has good taste in wine.
    After sacking Zahawi it is time for Rishi to follow suit with Case.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    I've never worked in a ministerial department, so I don't what it's like, but what surprises me about this is the implication that quite a lot of civil servants work in and around the minister. In my mind, the minister works with the permanent secretary and perhaps the next few down from them, but I wouldn't have thought they'd have that close contact with many others.
    That might be a matter of ministerial choice, though ?
    Nothing to stop Raab going for a stroll round the department.
    To bully random civil servants?!
  • ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    I've never worked in a ministerial department, so I don't what it's like, but what surprises me about this is the implication that quite a lot of civil servants work in and around the minister. In my mind, the minister works with the permanent secretary and perhaps the next few down from them, but I wouldn't have thought they'd have that close contact with many others.
    That might be a matter of ministerial choice, though ?
    Nothing to stop Raab going for a stroll round the department.
    'You mean he's loose in the building?! If he's restless, he can feed the ducks in St James' Park!'
    Is that a Godfather euphemism like "feeding the fishes"?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    It’s no surprise that the Government treat the electorate like shit when they can’t even respect their own civil servants.
    Although it has to be said I don't think many of us have much respect left for the civil service after the last few shockingly awful years.

    Especially those of us who have had to deal with them on a regular basis.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    I've never worked in a ministerial department, so I don't what it's like, but what surprises me about this is the implication that quite a lot of civil servants work in and around the minister. In my mind, the minister works with the permanent secretary and perhaps the next few down from them, but I wouldn't have thought they'd have that close contact with many others.
    That might be a matter of ministerial choice, though ?
    Nothing to stop Raab going for a stroll round the department.
    'You mean he's loose in the building?! If he's restless, he can feed the ducks in St James' Park!'
    Is that a Godfather euphemism like "feeding the fishes"?
    It's from Yes Minister: The Skeleton in the Cupboard.
  • Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    It seems that the stench continues unabated in No.10....

    I wonder whether it is incompetence or indifference?
    A blocked drain? Although they cleared the place of an enormous t*rd last September. Still no better?
    Maybe it is just full of bullsh..... :open_mouth:
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,067
    ydoethur said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Apparently he has good taste in wine.
    A Case of wine?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    ydoethur said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Apparently he has good taste in wine.
    A Case of wine?
    Let him be that, rather than a Head, Case?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,571
    Idle enquiry - when do PBers feel that "mid-term" is over and any substantial swingback should start to appear? My sense is May, after the local elections. IIRC Major started to recover at the corresponding time in 1992-97.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,419
    O/T but some good news for a change.

    https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2023/feb/03/thornborough-henges-north-yorkshire-gifted-england-heritage

    "The circular earthworks are thought to be part of a “ritual landscape”, comparable to Salisbury Plain, home to Stonehenge.

    There are three henges running north to south over a mile long. Two have been given to the nation by the construction company Tarmac. Lightwater Holdings, a local company, has given parts of the wider monument."
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,067
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Apparently he has good taste in wine.
    A Case of wine?
    Let him be that, rather than a Head, Case?
    Does he walk round the office wearing a fleurie shirt?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,560

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Coincidentally the word “case” in Shakespearean English has a double meaning standing in for the “C” word.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    Is there any gain of function research on avian influenza going on at Wuhan?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Apparently he has good taste in wine.
    A Case of wine?
    Let him be that, rather than a Head, Case?
    Does he walk round the office wearing a fleurie shirt?
    What, just a shirt? Nothing else? :hushed:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    Incidentally, if 2023 ends up being Biden v DeSantis, this photo of Biden on a walkabout in Florida, chatting to a Republican voter (with his arm round the guy's wife) suggests to me what the odds ought to be.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/jfruh/status/1621029233245167619
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    boulay said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Coincidentally the word “case” in Shakespearean English has a double meaning standing in for the “C” word.
    Corruption?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,067

    Idle enquiry - when do PBers feel that "mid-term" is over and any substantial swingback should start to appear? My sense is May, after the local elections. IIRC Major started to recover at the corresponding time in 1992-97.

    Sounds about right. Most electors won’t be thinking about who to vote for in a General Election yet; just frustrated with the current lot.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,937
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Apparently he has good taste in wine.
    A Case of wine?
    Let him be that, rather than a Head, Case?
    Didn't Neil Parrish get into hot water for looking at CASE pictures?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Apparently he has good taste in wine.
    A Case of wine?
    Let him be that, rather than a Head, Case?
    Didn't Neil Parrish get into hot water for looking at CASE pictures?
    He was a tractored to inappropriate past times.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,937
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Apparently he has good taste in wine.
    A Case of wine?
    Let him be that, rather than a Head, Case?
    Didn't Neil Parrish get into hot water for looking at CASE pictures?
    He was a tractored to inappropriate past times.
    Case closed!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    geoffw said:

    Is there any gain of function research on avian influenza going on at Wuhan?

    No, but there is in European mink farms.
    Which are BSL0 facilities.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Apparently he has good taste in wine.
    A Case of wine?
    Let him be that, rather than a Head, Case?
    Didn't Neil Parrish get into hot water for looking at CASE pictures?
    He was a tractored to inappropriate past times.
    Oh Deere
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Apparently he has good taste in wine.
    A Case of wine?
    Let him be that, rather than a Head, Case?
    Didn't Neil Parrish get into hot water for looking at CASE pictures?
    He was a tractored to inappropriate past times.
    Oh Deere
    I think we've been sent down a Masseyve blind alley here.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,970
    "Masks Don’t Work, Gold Standard Review of Trial Data Concludes
    By Dr Robert Malone"

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/02/02/masks-dont-work-gold-standard-review-of-trial-data-concludes/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,419
    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Apparently he has good taste in wine.
    A Case of wine?
    Let him be that, rather than a Head, Case?
    Didn't Neil Parrish get into hot water for looking at CASE pictures?
    He was a tractored to inappropriate past times.
    Oh Deere
    Was it pictures of ladies in wee grey Fergie dresses?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,361
    tlg86 said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    I've never worked in a ministerial department, so I don't what it's like, but what surprises me about this is the implication that quite a lot of civil servants work in and around the minister. In my mind, the minister works with the permanent secretary and perhaps the next few down from them, but I wouldn't have thought they'd have that close contact with many others.
    He will work very closely with his private office - they manage his schedule, prioritize his time, make sure civil servants wanting meetings with him really need them etc.

    Some of them are quite junior, diary secretary is normally an EO from memory, that's an entry level position. That's probably like 4-5 people there, and they rotate so over a few years he could easily have had 15+ private office staff.

    Then he'll probably meet fairly regularly with senior civil servants and the grade 6/7s who are delivering the bits of policy he really cares about/are blowing up in the news.
  • tlg86 said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    I've never worked in a ministerial department, so I don't what it's like, but what surprises me about this is the implication that quite a lot of civil servants work in and around the minister. In my mind, the minister works with the permanent secretary and perhaps the next few down from them, but I wouldn't have thought they'd have that close contact with many others.
    I work in a government department and there’s probably more than you think although of course a tiny number compared to the size of the department as a whole. Off the top of my head:

    Minister’s Private Office- There are a number of proper Civil Servants here and this is where a minister is most likely to regularly interact with quite junior grades.

    Permanent Secretary- Sees the minister regularly, might bring some of their own private office with them for formal meetings.

    DGs and subject experts- The minister will
    summon the heads of particular business areas as needed. For example the CFO during the budget round. They will probably bring particular specialists with them who whilst being fairly high up the grade scale aren’t high flyers so not used to dealing with politicians.

    In my experience flash points occur because Civil Servants and ministers often need different things. Civil Servants want a clear direction so they can set the very complex bureaucratic wheels in motion. Politicians want options that aren’t going to piss anyone off.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Coincidentally the word “case” in Shakespearean English has a double meaning standing in for the “C” word.
    Corruption?
    No.
    As with 'purse', something that can contain something.

    Shakespeare made TSE look like an innocent choirboy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    Andy_JS said:

    "Masks Don’t Work, Gold Standard Review of Trial Data Concludes
    By Dr Robert Malone"

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/02/02/masks-dont-work-gold-standard-review-of-trial-data-concludes/

    I asked a friend of mine who is a surgeon how effective masks were.

    She said they would be effective, if used properly. Disposable three ply, worn correctly, used once and then got rid of correctly.

    She added that almost nobody of her acquaintance was using them correctly. So she was dubious about how useful they would be.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Masks Don’t Work, Gold Standard Review of Trial Data Concludes
    By Dr Robert Malone"

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/02/02/masks-dont-work-gold-standard-review-of-trial-data-concludes/

    During the COVID-19 pandemic, Malone promoted misinformation about the safety and efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines.

    On December 30, 2021, Malone claimed on The Joe Rogan Experience podcast that "mass formation psychosis" was developing in American society in its reaction to COVID-19 just as during the rise of Nazi Germany.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_W._Malone#COVID-19_research_and_controversy
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,937
    boulay said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Coincidentally the word “case” in Shakespearean English has a double meaning standing in for the “C” word.
    A "Case" and a "Johnson" running the nation in tandem? So by your definition we had both a **** and an enormous c*ck in charge of the show.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    The fact just 12% of 2019 Conservative voters are now voting Labour suggests the result of the next general election could be much better than the current polling suggests for Sunak. However he would need to win back DKs and RefUK voters
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,560
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Coincidentally the word “case” in Shakespearean English has a double meaning standing in for the “C” word.
    Corruption?
    No.
    As with 'purse', something that can contain something.

    Shakespeare made TSE look like an innocent choirboy.
    My favourite, for purely childish amusement, is “Pie Corner”.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    rkrkrk said:

    tlg86 said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    I've never worked in a ministerial department, so I don't what it's like, but what surprises me about this is the implication that quite a lot of civil servants work in and around the minister. In my mind, the minister works with the permanent secretary and perhaps the next few down from them, but I wouldn't have thought they'd have that close contact with many others.
    He will work very closely with his private office - they manage his schedule, prioritize his time, make sure civil servants wanting meetings with him really need them etc.

    Some of them are quite junior, diary secretary is normally an EO from memory, that's an entry level position. That's probably like 4-5 people there, and they rotate so over a few years he could easily have had 15+ private office staff.

    Then he'll probably meet fairly regularly with senior civil servants and the grade 6/7s who are delivering the bits of policy he really cares about/are blowing up in the news.
    That's interesting. I'm a 7 at a non-ministerial department and I'd have thought they wouldn't have much contact with the minister.

    The EOs in regular contact is a more likely source of tension I'd have thought.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196
    edited February 2023
    OT -

    I put the chances of Labour as largest party at 95%+

    Which means they lead the next government.

    Overall majority is getting high as well. I think 75%+

    EDIT: The only thing that might happen is May style melt down in the campaign itself.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Masks Don’t Work, Gold Standard Review of Trial Data Concludes
    By Dr Robert Malone"

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/02/02/masks-dont-work-gold-standard-review-of-trial-data-concludes/

    What a fine echo chamber of conspiracy theory nuttery that site is!
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Is there any gain of function research on avian influenza going on at Wuhan?

    No, but there is in European mink farms.
    Which are BSL0 facilities.
    So approved by European authorities? And the mink farms are treated like metaphorical petri dishes?

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Is there any gain of function research on avian influenza going on at Wuhan?

    No, but there is in European mink farms.
    Which are BSL0 facilities.
    That is, as far as I'm aware.

    Elsewhere, there's this report from Feb 2019:
    .
    Controversial experiments that could make bird flu more risky poised to resume
    Two “gain of function” projects halted more than 4 years ago have passed new U.S. review process
    https://www.science.org/content/article/exclusive-controversial-experiments-make-bird-flu-more-risky-poised-resume
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    edited February 2023
    By the way, does Lucy Powell not understand what's meant by insolvent or do I not know?

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/03/premier-league-and-efl-financial-settlement-is-urgent-insists-labour

    With over half of EFL clubs already insolvent, how many more could go bust or face the brink before then?

    Does she simply mean running at a loss? Insolvent means you're in the brown stuff doesn't it?
  • Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Coincidentally the word “case” in Shakespearean English has a double meaning standing in for the “C” word.
    Corruption?
    No.
    As with 'purse', something that can contain something.

    Shakespeare made TSE look like an innocent choirboy.
    As much as I love Shakespeare, Chaucer is my favourite, The Miller's Tale is the finest piece of writing ever.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,419
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Masks Don’t Work, Gold Standard Review of Trial Data Concludes
    By Dr Robert Malone"

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/02/02/masks-dont-work-gold-standard-review-of-trial-data-concludes/

    I asked a friend of mine who is a surgeon how effective masks were.

    She said they would be effective, if used properly. Disposable three ply, worn correctly, used once and then got rid of correctly.

    She added that almost nobody of her acquaintance was using them correctly. So she was dubious about how useful they would be.
    Presumably the general public, not the hospital colleagues?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    edited February 2023
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Masks Don’t Work, Gold Standard Review of Trial Data Concludes
    By Dr Robert Malone"

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/02/02/masks-dont-work-gold-standard-review-of-trial-data-concludes/

    I asked a friend of mine who is a surgeon how effective masks were.

    She said they would be effective, if used properly. Disposable three ply, worn correctly, used once and then got rid of correctly.

    She added that almost nobody of her acquaintance was using them correctly. So she was dubious about how useful they would be.
    Presumably the general public, not the hospital colleagues?
    Yes.

    Edit - the context was me not wearing my mask correctly...
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Coincidentally the word “case” in Shakespearean English has a double meaning standing in for the “C” word.
    Corruption?
    No.
    As with 'purse', something that can contain something.

    Shakespeare made TSE look like an innocent choirboy.
    As much as I love Shakespeare, Chaucer is my favourite, The Miller's Tale is the finest piece of writing ever.
    Try Boccaccio to broaden your horizons.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    More recent article on the issue here.

    MAKING TROUBLE
    The United States is moving to tighten oversight of studies that could make viruses more dangerous. But how far should it go?
    https://www.science.org/content/article/u-s-weighs-crackdown-experiments-could-make-viruses-more-dangerous
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Eagles, I just finished reading The Miller's Tale a couple of days ago. Quite the chance of pace from the Knight's.
  • tlg86 said:

    By the way, does Lucy Powell not understand what's meant by insolvent or do I not know?

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/03/premier-league-and-efl-financial-settlement-is-urgent-insists-labour

    With over half of EFL clubs already insolvent, how many more could go bust or face the brink before then?

    Does she simply mean running at a loss? Insolvent means you're in the brown stuff doesn't it?

    With football clubs it is a bit more complicated.

    A lot of clubs are technically insolvent as the majority of the debts they owe their owner/related companies

    https://www.begbies-traynorgroup.com/news/business-health-statistics/october-2022-football-distress-survey-trouble-ahead-for-english-clubs-as-cost-of-living-crisis-double-whammy-stifles-revenues-and-ramps-up-costs
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,019
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Masks Don’t Work, Gold Standard Review of Trial Data Concludes
    By Dr Robert Malone"

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/02/02/masks-dont-work-gold-standard-review-of-trial-data-concludes/

    I asked a friend of mine who is a surgeon how effective masks were.

    She said they would be effective, if used properly. Disposable three ply, worn correctly, used once and then got rid of correctly.

    She added that almost nobody of her acquaintance was using them correctly. So she was dubious about how useful they would be.
    That was pretty much my guess from the start. Once I learned that the disposable blue ones have a very short effective lifespan (I think I read 15-30 minutes somewhere) it was clear that no matter what the theory about masks was, the reality would be that any effect would be negligible unless the government supplied everyone with N95s.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,019
    edited February 2023

    Andy_JS said:

    "Masks Don’t Work, Gold Standard Review of Trial Data Concludes
    By Dr Robert Malone"

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/02/02/masks-dont-work-gold-standard-review-of-trial-data-concludes/

    During the COVID-19 pandemic, Malone promoted misinformation about the safety and efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines.

    On December 30, 2021, Malone claimed on The Joe Rogan Experience podcast that "mass formation psychosis" was developing in American society in its reaction to COVID-19 just as during the rise of Nazi Germany.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_W._Malone#COVID-19_research_and_controversy
    That's not misinformation, and it's not just the US that went mad, we did too along with most of the world.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Is there any gain of function research on avian influenza going on at Wuhan?

    No, but there is in European mink farms.
    Which are BSL0 facilities.
    That is, as far as I'm aware.

    Elsewhere, there's this report from Feb 2019:
    .
    Controversial experiments that could make bird flu more risky poised to resume
    Two “gain of function” projects halted more than 4 years ago have passed new U.S. review process
    https://www.science.org/content/article/exclusive-controversial-experiments-make-bird-flu-more-risky-poised-resume
    That warning paper predates the Covid pandemic.
    a U.S. government review panel quietly approved experiments proposed by two labs that were previously considered so dangerous that federal officials had imposed an unusual top-down moratorium on such research. … [scientists] believe certain studies that aim to make pathogens more potent or more likely to spread in mammals are so risky they should be limited or even banned.

    Looks to me like the politicos need to get some control over what these labs get up to.


  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    tlg86 said:

    By the way, does Lucy Powell not understand what's meant by insolvent or do I not know?

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/03/premier-league-and-efl-financial-settlement-is-urgent-insists-labour

    With over half of EFL clubs already insolvent, how many more could go bust or face the brink before then?

    Does she simply mean running at a loss? Insolvent means you're in the brown stuff doesn't it?

    With football clubs it is a bit more complicated.

    A lot of clubs are technically insolvent as the majority of the debts they owe their owner/related companies

    https://www.begbies-traynorgroup.com/news/business-health-statistics/october-2022-football-distress-survey-trouble-ahead-for-english-clubs-as-cost-of-living-crisis-double-whammy-stifles-revenues-and-ramps-up-costs
    In the Premier League, distress has risen by 75% since March and is now affecting seven of the 20 top-flight clubs.

    Proof that it's a useless measure.
  • Driver said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Masks Don’t Work, Gold Standard Review of Trial Data Concludes
    By Dr Robert Malone"

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/02/02/masks-dont-work-gold-standard-review-of-trial-data-concludes/

    During the COVID-19 pandemic, Malone promoted misinformation about the safety and efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines.

    On December 30, 2021, Malone claimed on The Joe Rogan Experience podcast that "mass formation psychosis" was developing in American society in its reaction to COVID-19 just as during the rise of Nazi Germany.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_W._Malone#COVID-19_research_and_controversy
    That's not misinformation, and it's not just the US that went mad, we did to along with most of the world.
    Starting in mid-2021, Malone received criticism for propagating COVID-19 misinformation and conspiracy theories, including making "dangerous" and misleading claims about the toxicity of spike proteins generated by some COVID-19 vaccines; using interviews on mass media to popularize medication with ivermectin; and tweeting a study by others questioning vaccine safety that was later retracted.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Masks Don’t Work, Gold Standard Review of Trial Data Concludes
    By Dr Robert Malone"

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/02/02/masks-dont-work-gold-standard-review-of-trial-data-concludes/

    I asked a friend of mine who is a surgeon how effective masks were.

    She said they would be effective, if used properly. Disposable three ply, worn correctly, used once and then got rid of correctly.

    She added that almost nobody of her acquaintance was using them correctly. So she was dubious about how useful they would be.
    If you wanted to do it right, lots of air filters in enclosed spaces would be far better. But I have a nagging suspicion that mask mandates were actually more about the the message than any serious attempts to suppress covid via masks.

    Frankly for governments worldwide who claimed to be following the science, we seemed to have learned very little in three years. Our local GP surgery still has receptionists behind a Perspex screen, despite three years of evidence that covid is aerosolised, not droplet based. They also insist on masks, where our local hospital does not, except in certain settings. Madness.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,019
    tlg86 said:

    By the way, does Lucy Powell not understand what's meant by insolvent or do I not know?

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/03/premier-league-and-efl-financial-settlement-is-urgent-insists-labour

    With over half of EFL clubs already insolvent, how many more could go bust or face the brink before then?

    Does she simply mean running at a loss? Insolvent means you're in the brown stuff doesn't it?

    Insolvent means you can't pay your debts, I think. I wouldn't be at all surprised if half the EFL clubs were technically insolvent.
  • tlg86 said:

    By the way, does Lucy Powell not understand what's meant by insolvent or do I not know?

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/03/premier-league-and-efl-financial-settlement-is-urgent-insists-labour

    With over half of EFL clubs already insolvent, how many more could go bust or face the brink before then?

    Does she simply mean running at a loss? Insolvent means you're in the brown stuff doesn't it?

    With football clubs it is a bit more complicated.

    A lot of clubs are technically insolvent as the majority of the debts they owe their owner/related companies

    https://www.begbies-traynorgroup.com/news/business-health-statistics/october-2022-football-distress-survey-trouble-ahead-for-english-clubs-as-cost-of-living-crisis-double-whammy-stifles-revenues-and-ramps-up-costs
    In the Championship half the owners are essentially betting £20m-£40m a year on getting promoted which guarantees £200m.

    It is a net losing play for the basket of clubs but even more divided on an individual basis as you get 3 winners and about 9 losers each season.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    edited February 2023
    geoffw said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Is there any gain of function research on avian influenza going on at Wuhan?

    No, but there is in European mink farms.
    Which are BSL0 facilities.
    So approved by European authorities? And the mink farms are treated like metaphorical petri dishes?

    No, they're just farms.
    But open to possible infection from wild birds, as happened recently.

    At that point, thousands of mink, housed in close proximity, provide an ideal environment for the non mammalian virus to develop a mutation which enables better mammal to mammal transmission.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,019

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Masks Don’t Work, Gold Standard Review of Trial Data Concludes
    By Dr Robert Malone"

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/02/02/masks-dont-work-gold-standard-review-of-trial-data-concludes/

    I asked a friend of mine who is a surgeon how effective masks were.

    She said they would be effective, if used properly. Disposable three ply, worn correctly, used once and then got rid of correctly.

    She added that almost nobody of her acquaintance was using them correctly. So she was dubious about how useful they would be.
    If you wanted to do it right, lots of air filters in enclosed spaces would be far better. But I have a nagging suspicion that mask mandates were actually more about the the message than any serious attempts to suppress covid via masks.
    Of course they were. Our government admitted as much, almost in as many words, at one point.
  • ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Masks Don’t Work, Gold Standard Review of Trial Data Concludes
    By Dr Robert Malone"

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/02/02/masks-dont-work-gold-standard-review-of-trial-data-concludes/

    I asked a friend of mine who is a surgeon how effective masks were.

    She said they would be effective, if used properly. Disposable three ply, worn correctly, used once and then got rid of correctly.

    She added that almost nobody of her acquaintance was using them correctly. So she was dubious about how useful they would be.
    I thought the masks were not to stop you getting Covid, but to stop you spreading it? A sort of strapped on handkerchief?
  • Idle enquiry - when do PBers feel that "mid-term" is over and any substantial swingback should start to appear? My sense is May, after the local elections. IIRC Major started to recover at the corresponding time in 1992-97.

    Couple of things worked in Major's favour in 1995. There was the catharsis of the "back me or sack me" leadership election, and the economy started to do unambiguously well. Neither of those looks like being in play this cycle.

    The other thing I'm wondering is whether there will be a shakedown of "what's the best way to kick the Conservatives?" voters. The sort of people who are probably saying Labour to pollsters now, but will look out of their windows at some point and remember the demographics of where they live. That might lead to a closing of headline intentions, but wouldn't be to Sunak's advantage.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    You can run an individual company insolvent within a group. The key thing auditors want to see is evidence of future profitability.
  • I don't understand why anyone thinks that Raab is toast. He should be. He could be. But this is the modern Tory party. Patel was found to have bullied and yet was pointedly allowed to stay in office because screw the code. Zahawi was *appointed* to oversee the same HMRC investigating his tax affairs despite the explicit warnings because screw you we do what we want.

    The rules do not apply to the Tory party. The law. Morality. They have been openly trousering public money for them and their spiv friends and not only are we not supposed to care how much money has been stolen, we're supposed to ignore it all and blame Starmer.

    Perhaps the polls remain as terrible for the Tories because even the most apolitical now know all of this. Incompetent. Immoral. Corrupt. A change of leader won't suddenly change their behaviour.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,844
    Driver said:

    tlg86 said:

    By the way, does Lucy Powell not understand what's meant by insolvent or do I not know?

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/03/premier-league-and-efl-financial-settlement-is-urgent-insists-labour

    With over half of EFL clubs already insolvent, how many more could go bust or face the brink before then?

    Does she simply mean running at a loss? Insolvent means you're in the brown stuff doesn't it?

    Insolvent means you can't pay your debts, I think. I wouldn't be at all surprised if half the EFL clubs were technically insolvent.
    Isn't it illegal to carry on trading if you are insolvent?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Masks Don’t Work, Gold Standard Review of Trial Data Concludes
    By Dr Robert Malone"

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/02/02/masks-dont-work-gold-standard-review-of-trial-data-concludes/

    I asked a friend of mine who is a surgeon how effective masks were.

    She said they would be effective, if used properly. Disposable three ply, worn correctly, used once and then got rid of correctly.

    She added that almost nobody of her acquaintance was using them correctly. So she was dubious about how useful they would be.
    I thought the masks were not to stop you getting Covid, but to stop you spreading it? A sort of strapped on handkerchief?
    A bit, yes. But as has been explained very often, it needs to be the right mask, used the right way, with other intervention. Surgeons wear masks, but also sterilise all equipment, wash thoroughly etc.
    Scraps of cloth going on and off the face, into the pocket, out again etc are not the same.

    Masks were and are an active deterrent to some people from going out. I attended the Discworld convention in August 2022 where masks were still required (in a hotel with other guests who did not have to wear them). This was for the benefit of more vulnerable visitors, but I suspect the main benefit was placebo.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417

    Driver said:

    tlg86 said:

    By the way, does Lucy Powell not understand what's meant by insolvent or do I not know?

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/03/premier-league-and-efl-financial-settlement-is-urgent-insists-labour

    With over half of EFL clubs already insolvent, how many more could go bust or face the brink before then?

    Does she simply mean running at a loss? Insolvent means you're in the brown stuff doesn't it?

    Insolvent means you can't pay your debts, I think. I wouldn't be at all surprised if half the EFL clubs were technically insolvent.
    Isn't it illegal to carry on trading if you are insolvent?
    Not if group creditors are > than your negative equity.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    edited February 2023

    Andy_JS said:

    "Masks Don’t Work, Gold Standard Review of Trial Data Concludes
    By Dr Robert Malone"

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/02/02/masks-dont-work-gold-standard-review-of-trial-data-concludes/

    What a fine echo chamber of conspiracy theory nuttery that site is!
    The Cochrane review is legit though.

    What I haven't been able to determine, from a brief skim (may need to go back to the original papers) is whether the outcomes were among mask wearers or among the general population.

    I'd expect a very moderate, if any, effect of protection for mask wearers (as there they may not wear masks at all appropriate times, a lot of intra-household infection etc - no one wears a mask at home, presumably). What's more interesting, but far harder to measure, is whether general mask use in a population reduces the level of infection in that population compared to no mask use. There, it's hard to generate the counterfactual.

    If anyone has insight on which this review covers, I'd be interested.

    ETA: Also important to note that the review (politely) says that a lot of the primary studies are a bit shit, so there's still uncertainty (garbage in -> garbage out, however good the review process).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,008
    edited February 2023

    Idle enquiry - when do PBers feel that "mid-term" is over and any substantial swingback should start to appear? My sense is May, after the local elections. IIRC Major started to recover at the corresponding time in 1992-97.

    Couple of things worked in Major's favour in 1995. There was the catharsis of the "back me or sack me" leadership election, and the economy started to do unambiguously well. Neither of those looks like being in play this cycle.

    The other thing I'm wondering is whether there will be a shakedown of "what's the best way to kick the Conservatives?" voters. The sort of people who are probably saying Labour to pollsters now, but will look out of their windows at some point and remember the demographics of where they live. That might lead to a closing of headline intentions, but wouldn't be to Sunak's advantage.
    In 1997 about 14% of 1992 Tories voted Labour, so Starmer is still doing worse than Blair in actually winning over voters from the Tories and of course the Tories got a bigger voteshare in 2019 than 1992 too.

    He can't afford much leakage back to the Tories if DKs and RefUK voters return to Sunak
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,165
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Masks Don’t Work, Gold Standard Review of Trial Data Concludes
    By Dr Robert Malone"

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/02/02/masks-dont-work-gold-standard-review-of-trial-data-concludes/

    I asked a friend of mine who is a surgeon how effective masks were.

    She said they would be effective, if used properly. Disposable three ply, worn correctly, used once and then got rid of correctly.

    She added that almost nobody of her acquaintance was using them correctly. So she was dubious about how useful they would be.
    Presumably your surgeon friend is aware that they wear a mask to prevent infection of the patient, not themselves.

    I agree though that few lay people wear masks correctly.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    On topic: Is it time for 'Rishi is Crap Is PM'?
  • Selebian said:

    On topic: Is it time for 'Rishi is Crap Is PM'?

    Certainly for the next 20 months.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,173
    tlg86 said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    I've never worked in a ministerial department, so I don't what it's like, but what surprises me about this is the implication that quite a lot of civil servants work in and around the minister. In my mind, the minister works with the permanent secretary and perhaps the next few down from them, but I wouldn't have thought they'd have that close contact with many others.
    The more junior staff specialise in certain areas of legislation, and when there's a meeting on a particular issue or particular bill, more junior staff are likely to be pulled in as note-takers or to sit and deal with any detailed questions that arise. So although junior staff wouldn't have regular day-to-day contact with a minister, over time many of them are likely to have sat in on meetings where s/he was present.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    Idle enquiry - when do PBers feel that "mid-term" is over and any substantial swingback should start to appear? My sense is May, after the local elections. IIRC Major started to recover at the corresponding time in 1992-97.

    Couple of things worked in Major's favour in 1995. There was the catharsis of the "back me or sack me" leadership election, and the economy started to do unambiguously well. Neither of those looks like being in play this cycle.

    The other thing I'm wondering is whether there will be a shakedown of "what's the best way to kick the Conservatives?" voters. The sort of people who are probably saying Labour to pollsters now, but will look out of their windows at some point and remember the demographics of where they live. That might lead to a closing of headline intentions, but wouldn't be to Sunak's advantage.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1997_United_Kingdom_general_election

    The tactical swing to the Lib Dems only showed up at the end in 1997.
  • Selebian said:

    On topic: Is it time for 'Rishi is Crap Is PM'?

    Certainly for the next 20 months.
    Or less... ;)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196

    Fishing said:

    dixiedean said:

    Three point plan for the UK:

    Invest. Invest. Invest.



    In what?
    Infrastructure
    R&D
    Industrial strategy
    Public sector capital
    Government splashing lots of other people's money into favoured companies and projects.

    What could possibly go wrong?

    Corruption, mismanagement, incompetence, gigantic waste ...

    Actually, more to the point, what could possibly go right?
    This blanket attitude is defunct.
    It’s no longer working (if it ever worked).

    As @Malmesbury points out, the government needs to incent industries and success, rather than individual “winners”.

    Otherwise the risk is corruption etc as you say.
    If you look through the history of government taking control in industry, versus really competitive tendering, in the UK, the corruption is evident.

    The untold story of rearmament in the the 1930s is how a lot of people sent government money to companies and strangely, found themselves getting big jobs at said companies a little time later. The contracts for the first batch of the KGV battleships stink, in particular.

    Incidentally, yesterday, someone was talking about limiting profits. An interesting example of this is the American FAR (Federal Acquisition Regulations) system. Profits are limited, all kinds of inspections are required, for most US government work.

    The result has been corruption, political jobbery and insane costs. The last is obvious - if you are limited to 20%, 20% of a billion is better than 20% of a million, right?

    See the story of how NASA spent more than the entire Starship development project by SpaceX. On a launch tower. Which will need to be replaced, by another tower. Because the first one can't deal with the next iteration of the SLS (Senate Launch System) rocket.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,173
    edited February 2023

    Idle enquiry - when do PBers feel that "mid-term" is over and any substantial swingback should start to appear? My sense is May, after the local elections. IIRC Major started to recover at the corresponding time in 1992-97.

    IMHO the swingback occurs less because people start to give the government a more sympathetic hearing, but because as the election approaches attention from the media and commentariat starts to focus on what the opposition do, and the narrative changes from "this lot are shit so I am voting for the other lot" to "which of these is better?". Inevitably some voters, when they start to contemplate voting for the other lot, will find things they don't like and change their minds.

    So the question is when Labour will start to set out its stall - they won't want to do it too early but on the other hand can't afford to leave starting on it too late?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Is there any gain of function research on avian influenza going on at Wuhan?

    No, but there is in European mink farms.
    Which are BSL0 facilities.
    So approved by European authorities? And the mink farms are treated like metaphorical petri dishes?

    No, they're just farms.
    But open to possible infection from wild birds, as happened recently.

    At that point, thousands of mink, housed in close proximity, provide an ideal environment for the non mammalian virus to develop a mutation which enables better mammal to mammal transmission.
    More from that 2019 paper, op cit:
    "In 2011, Fouchier and Kawaoka alarmed the world by revealing they had separately modified the deadly avian H5N1 influenza virus so that it spread between ferrets. Advocates of such gain of function (GOF) studies say they can help public health experts better understand how viruses might spread and plan for pandemics. But by enabling the bird virus to more easily spread among mammals, the experiments also raised fears that the pathogen could jump to humans. And critics of the work worried that such a souped-up virus could spark a pandemic if it escaped from a lab or was intentionally released by a bioterrorist. "

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Masks Don’t Work, Gold Standard Review of Trial Data Concludes
    By Dr Robert Malone"

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/02/02/masks-dont-work-gold-standard-review-of-trial-data-concludes/

    I asked a friend of mine who is a surgeon how effective masks were.

    She said they would be effective, if used properly. Disposable three ply, worn correctly, used once and then got rid of correctly.

    She added that almost nobody of her acquaintance was using them correctly. So she was dubious about how useful they would be.
    Presumably your surgeon friend is aware that they wear a mask to prevent infection of the patient, not themselves.

    I agree though that few lay people wear masks correctly.
    I still don't understand why, if the goal is to prevent virus transmission, N95s aren't used. There's no shortage now.

    A relative insists on them for dust/fibre environments on a building site. Given that manual labourers seem to be able to use them....
  • geoffw said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Case and Raab are buggered.

    The cabinet secretary was personally informed of a written complaint against Dominic Raab months before Rishi Sunak reappointed him as justice secretary, The Times has been told.

    Simon Case was warned that officials had made documented allegations about the behaviour of the deputy prime minister that were being taken seriously by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ).

    An inquiry into Raab’s behaviour has been told that the deputy prime minister had to be spoken to about his behaviour towards officials last spring, when Boris Johnson was prime minister, and that Britain’s top civil servant was made aware.

    In addition, The Times understands that dozens of civil servants have submitted written statements in support of Raab’s accusers, saying that while they were not personally bullied they saw it happening to their colleagues.

    It will raise further questions about Sunak’s defence that he was not aware of any “formal complaint” against Raab when bringing him back into government, as well as whether and how Case raised the matter with the prime minister.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simon-case-was-told-of-dominic-raab-bullying-before-sunak-rehired-him-lstjvl9wp

    Is there a single reported case of Case getting anything right?
    Coincidentally the word “case” in Shakespearean English has a double meaning standing in for the “C” word.
    Corruption?
    No.
    As with 'purse', something that can contain something.

    Shakespeare made TSE look like an innocent choirboy.
    As much as I love Shakespeare, Chaucer is my favourite, The Miller's Tale is the finest piece of writing ever.
    Try Boccaccio to broaden your horizons.

    Or some French fabliaux

    "Le Chevalier qui fit les cons parler" is quite a tale

    Did any French papers have the headline "Cons gagnent" when the Tories won elections?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196
    IanB2 said:

    Idle enquiry - when do PBers feel that "mid-term" is over and any substantial swingback should start to appear? My sense is May, after the local elections. IIRC Major started to recover at the corresponding time in 1992-97.

    IMHO the swingback occurs less because people start to give the government a more sympathetic hearing, but because as the election approaches attention from the media and commentariat starts to focus on what the opposition do, and the narrative changes from "this lot are shit so I am voting for the other lot" to "which of these is better?". Inevitably some voters, when they start to contemplate voting for the other lot, will find things they don't like and change their minds.

    So the question is when Labour will start to set out its stall - they won't want to do it too early but on the other hand can't afford to leave starting on it too late?
    This - when the public begins to sense an election coming.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    The interview on the Today program around 6.50 is worth a listen for those interested.

    “If we don’t have a semiconductor strategy, we’re walking away from one of the biggest industries in the world” Simon Thomas from
    @Paragraf_Gr told @amolrajan

    https://mobile.twitter.com/kprescott/status/1621423826771873793
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    IanB2 said:

    Idle enquiry - when do PBers feel that "mid-term" is over and any substantial swingback should start to appear? My sense is May, after the local elections. IIRC Major started to recover at the corresponding time in 1992-97.

    IMHO the swingback occurs less because people start to give the government a more sympathetic hearing, but because as the election approaches attention from the media and commentariat starts to focus on what the opposition do, and the narrative changes from "this lot are shit so I am voting for the other lot" to "which of these is better?". Inevitably some voters, when they start to contemplate voting for the other lot, will find things they don't like and change their minds.

    So the question is when Labour will start to set out its stall - they won't want to do it too early but on the other hand can't afford to leave starting on it too late?
    Before the 1997 election, when did Labour commit to sticking to Tory spending plans for the first two years?

    Found this in the Guardian from January 1997:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/1997/jan/21/economy.uk

    The Shadow Chancellor, Gordon Brown, last night seized the initiative in the pre-election battle on tax when he risked the wrath of leftwingers and the unions by pledging not to raise tax rates in the life of the next parliament.

    It goes on to say:

    Mr Brown's promise, combined with a commitment to stick by the Conservative Party's public spending plans for the first two years, caught ministers flat-footed as they prepared to relaunch the familiar pre-election tax-and-spend attack on Labour, which Tony Blair's heavily orchestrated campaign is determined to neutralise.

    So that commitment had already been made by then.

    I think your analysis is spot on. Blair and Mandelson all over this stuff in the run up to 1997. I don't get the sense that Starmer is. Perhaps he doesn't need to be, but it's what makes this situation different to 1997 in my opinion.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,173
    The striking thing is how it took a single short event like Truss to cut through to those voters who had stuck with the Tories despite all the shambles and scandals of the Johnson years. Things seemed bad enough for the Tories through Partygate and the rest, but there were still people who needed the shock of Truss for the scales to fall from their eyes.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196
    Nigelb said:

    The interview on the Today program around 6.50 is worth a listen for those interested.

    “If we don’t have a semiconductor strategy, we’re walking away from one of the biggest industries in the world” Simon Thomas from
    @Paragraf_Gr told @amolrajan

    https://mobile.twitter.com/kprescott/status/1621423826771873793

    Yup.

    Again, simple. X per chip class (processor, GP etc) actually produced at scale. X scaled to UK added value.

    The advatanges of such schemes, are

    1) that the risk is kept private.
    2) politically, you are spending a future governments money. You won't be minister when the subsidy payments are actually required. Since building the factory will take a decade.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,019
    IanB2 said:

    Idle enquiry - when do PBers feel that "mid-term" is over and any substantial swingback should start to appear? My sense is May, after the local elections. IIRC Major started to recover at the corresponding time in 1992-97.

    IMHO the swingback occurs less because people start to give the government a more sympathetic hearing, but because as the election approaches attention from the media and commentariat starts to focus on what the opposition do, and the narrative changes from "this lot are shit so I am voting for the other lot" to "which of these is better?". Inevitably some voters, when they start to contemplate voting for the other lot, will find things they don't like and change their minds.

    So the question is when Labour will start to set out its stall - they won't want to do it too early but on the other hand can't afford to leave starting on it too late?
    Except there isn't really such a thing as too early. From those policies which have started to dribble out (see the racist funding of businesses yesterday) I am starting to get the impression it's because they know that the things they really want to do are either irrelevant to or actively off-putting for swing voters.
This discussion has been closed.