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The government is getting the blame for the Nurses’ strike – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited January 22 in General
imageThe government is getting the blame for the Nurses’ strike – politicalbetting.com

The above polling on striking nurses is’from the latest Opinium poll that came out yesterday and highlights what appears to be a growing problem for the government.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • First like Kansas City
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,035
    edited January 15
    Mike like you I (used to) appreciate all the detailed tables with the Opinium polls. But unlike you I no longer have access to the data. When I search on the Opinium site or just I click on the Opinium link on the top right of this thread, the last detailed detailed voting intention poll there is dated 5th October 2022.

    So where are you getting the data from? Do Opinium provide open access, if so where is the link?

    It's a genuine question, I'd much appreciate an answer.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,932
    Who’s to blame?

    Those popular, lovable, relatable and famously competent Tory MPs.

    Or

    Those infamous, self centred nurses and paramedics.

    Hmmmmmm. That’s a tough call.

  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,190
    I wonder whom the people selecting "someone else" have in mind.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
    I think Rishi and Hunt are going to have to give nurses something.

    Obviously the 19% payrise the RCN wants is unaffordable but a one off winter payment for those earning under £40k would help
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,330

    Mike like you I (used to) appreciate all the detailed tables with the Opinium polls. But unlike you I no longer have access to the data. When I search on the Opinium site or just I click on the Opinium link on the top right of this thread, the last detailed detailed voting intention poll there is dated 5th October 2022.

    So where are you getting the data from? Do Opinium provide open access, if so where is the link?

    It's a genuine question, I'd much appreciate an answer.

    This is the link https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/VI-2023-01-11-Data-Tables-Observer.xlsx

    I find the best source of this data is on the Wikipedia UK polling page

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
  • beinndeargbeinndearg Posts: 676
    Jonathan said:

    Who’s to blame?

    Those popular, lovable, relatable and famously competent Tory MPs.

    Or

    Those infamous, self centred nurses and paramedics.

    Hmmmmmm. That’s a tough call.

    Very satirical and very brain dead. What on earth makes you think NHS nurses are unusually competent? Metrics or mawkishness?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756

    Jonathan said:

    Who’s to blame?

    Those popular, lovable, relatable and famously competent Tory MPs.

    Or

    Those infamous, self centred nurses and paramedics.

    Hmmmmmm. That’s a tough call.

    Very satirical and very brain dead. What on earth makes you think NHS nurses are unusually competent? Metrics or mawkishness?
    Well, compared to Tory MPs they must be fairly competent. I mean, some of their patients survive.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    edited January 15
    O/T

    "Konstantin Kisin
    @KonstantinKisin

    My speech at the Oxford Union is finally available. The debate was "This House Believes Woke Culture Has Gone Too Far".

    As promised, I didn't hold back 🤣"

    https://twitter.com/KonstantinKisin/status/1613830456243273730
  • beinndeargbeinndearg Posts: 676
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Who’s to blame?

    Those popular, lovable, relatable and famously competent Tory MPs.

    Or

    Those infamous, self centred nurses and paramedics.

    Hmmmmmm. That’s a tough call.

    Very satirical and very brain dead. What on earth makes you think NHS nurses are unusually competent? Metrics or mawkishness?
    Well, compared to Tory MPs they must be fairly competent. I mean, some of their patients survive.
    My MP is a Tory, and I am either still alive or at least faintly twitching.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 8,689
    edited January 15
    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi and Hunt are going to have to give nurses something.

    Obviously the 19% payrise the RCN wants is unaffordable but a one off winter payment for those earning under £40k would help

    The trouble with a one-off payment is what happens next year? Even if inflation falls, the cost of living will still be going
    up. Withdrawal of the payment isn't going to fly politically- and that row would drop at the start of an election year.

    (Plus the underlying issue that high vacancy rates are nature's way of telling an employer that they are demanding too much work for too little total reward.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Who’s to blame?

    Those popular, lovable, relatable and famously competent Tory MPs.

    Or

    Those infamous, self centred nurses and paramedics.

    Hmmmmmm. That’s a tough call.

    Very satirical and very brain dead. What on earth makes you think NHS nurses are unusually competent? Metrics or mawkishness?
    Well, compared to Tory MPs they must be fairly competent. I mean, some of their patients survive.
    My MP is a Tory, and I am either still alive or at least faintly twitching.
    The country's not looking so hot though.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,932

    Jonathan said:

    Who’s to blame?

    Those popular, lovable, relatable and famously competent Tory MPs.

    Or

    Those infamous, self centred nurses and paramedics.

    Hmmmmmm. That’s a tough call.

    Very satirical and very brain dead. What on earth makes you think NHS nurses are unusually competent? Metrics or mawkishness?
    There you go again, being a wally.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,190

    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi and Hunt are going to have to give nurses something.

    Obviously the 19% payrise the RCN wants is unaffordable but a one off winter payment for those earning under £40k would help

    The trouble with a one-off payment is what happens next year? Even if inflation falls, the cost of living will still be going
    up. Withdrawal of the payment isn't going to fly politically- and that row would drop at the start of an election year.

    (Plus the underlying issue that high vacancy rates are nature's way of telling an employer that they are demanding too much work for too little total reward.)
    I assume it's going to need to be a one-off payment plus a % increase, but the one-off payment would then justify a lower % increase than otherwise.

    The other thing about a one-off payment is it looks great on paper until you see your payslip and you see how much of it went straight back to the government via the tax man.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 3,664
    FPT because I don’t want ydoethur thinking I am not familiar with Gloucs geography:

    The Forest of Dean was where the dealers used to live. One was apparently in EMF. I didn’t partake myself, I was scared off by the whole just say no campaign, but for others it seemed to be the mother lode for illegal substances.

    Particularly my friend Will, whose father Charles was a travel writer and probable flint knapper who seemed to spend his early adulthood in Colombia.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    edited January 15
    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Edit.
    That includes others who actually work in education.
    It's oh so simple from the outside.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Flattering, but a bit harsh. @Stuartinromford @maxh @FrequentLurker @Fysics_Teacher and @FeersumEnjineeya also all have a decent idea of how many beans make five. As do a few others like @Mexicanpete from the outside.

    The problem is of course that outsiders assume education must be somehow easy to understand. Bright ones are actually the worst because they found it easy to receive.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    TimS said:

    FPT because I don’t want ydoethur thinking I am not familiar with Gloucs geography:

    The Forest of Dean was where the dealers used to live. One was apparently in EMF. I didn’t partake myself, I was scared off by the whole just say no campaign, but for others it seemed to be the mother lode for illegal substances.

    Particularly my friend Will, whose father Charles was a travel writer and probable flint knapper who seemed to spend his early adulthood in Colombia.

    https://www.amazon.com/Fruit-Palace-Odyssey-Colombias-Underworld/dp/0312309260
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,151
    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    I agree. Launching the entire DfE on the first
    “personed” landing on the surface of the Sun is the only possible education policy.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 3,664
    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Every now and then we seem to reach the stage with a particular public service where the debate is either no change or some clever wheeze that will somehow fix everything.

    We all know from the day to day of business that the answer is usually to keep trying things out, not overcommitting unless it’s a real crisis, properly funding investment, focusing on recruitment and retention, keeping the physical assets fresh etc.

    The ultimate aim should always be competence.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    I now feel honour bound to make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Amanda Spielman should be chief of OFSTED and Nick Gibb should be schools minister.

    Oh bollocks, those have already happened.

    Tom Lehrer would have to retire all over again.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 5,657
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Flattering, but a bit harsh. @Stuartinromford @maxh @FrequentLurker @Fysics_Teacher and @FeersumEnjineeya also all have a decent idea of how many beans make five. As do a few others like @Mexicanpete from the outside.

    The problem is of course that outsiders assume education must be somehow easy to understand. Bright ones are actually the worst because they found it easy to receive.
    For my education in the 70's and my sons education in the 90's I found the biggest obstacle to getting educated were the teachers. They were certainly not angels and frankl didnt give a shit
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited January 15
    Piece by Jeremy "fawning royalist creep" Paxman in the Torygraph. Note the technique of conveying a viewpoint while pretending to be doing little more than reporting on other viewpoints. This is especially embarrassing when it's done by Mr Media the political journalist. How can anyone take a supposed cynic seriously who isn't cynical about the man in the jewelled hat sitting on the fancy chair?

    Paxman drops the word "omerta" into his scribblings but if he had any rigour and backbone he'd realise that if there's one thing more dangerous than being a supergrass it's being a supergrass halfway.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    edited January 15
    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Every now and then we seem to reach the stage with a particular public service where the debate is either no change or some clever wheeze that will somehow fix everything.

    We all know from the day to day of business that the answer is usually to keep trying things out, not overcommitting unless it’s a real crisis, properly funding investment, focusing on recruitment and retention, keeping the physical assets fresh etc.

    The ultimate aim should always be competence.
    In which case @Malmesbury 's suggestion is a sine qua non for good education policy.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,576

    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi and Hunt are going to have to give nurses something.

    Obviously the 19% payrise the RCN wants is unaffordable but a one off winter payment for those earning under £40k would help

    The trouble with a one-off payment is what happens next year? Even if inflation falls, the cost of living will still be going
    up. Withdrawal of the payment isn't going to fly politically- and that row would drop at the start of an election year.

    (Plus the underlying issue that high vacancy rates are nature's way of telling an employer that they are demanding too much work for too little total reward.)
    I assume it's going to need to be a one-off payment plus a % increase, but the one-off payment would then justify a lower % increase than otherwise.

    The other thing about a one-off payment is it looks great on paper until you see your payslip and you see how much of it went straight back to the government via the tax man.
    Yep. Always felt this was wrong somehow. On occasion I’ve had performance bonuses, and it’s bloody taxed. I have no issue with tax on my main salary but this just feels wrong.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 3,664
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT because I don’t want ydoethur thinking I am not familiar with Gloucs geography:

    The Forest of Dean was where the dealers used to live. One was apparently in EMF. I didn’t partake myself, I was scared off by the whole just say no campaign, but for others it seemed to be the mother lode for illegal substances.

    Particularly my friend Will, whose father Charles was a travel writer and probable flint knapper who seemed to spend his early adulthood in Colombia.

    https://www.amazon.com/Fruit-Palace-Odyssey-Colombias-Underworld/dp/0312309260
    That’s the chap. Terrific book. Lived in a lovely old house in orchards a few miles outside Hereford, and Will had a hammock. I remember sleeping in it after a disco as a young teen with the music to Tom’s diner going through my head.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Flattering, but a bit harsh. @Stuartinromford @maxh @FrequentLurker @Fysics_Teacher and @FeersumEnjineeya also all have a decent idea of how many beans make five. As do a few others like @Mexicanpete from the outside.

    The problem is of course that outsiders assume education must be somehow easy to understand. Bright ones are actually the worst because they found it easy to receive.
    See my edit.
    That's very fair.
    It's a bit fucking annoying to be told that I'll get up at 6:40 tomorrow and ought to be in a half an hour earlier, and that at home time I'll just make them run around a non-existent playing field for an hour or two.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Flattering, but a bit harsh. @Stuartinromford @maxh @FrequentLurker @Fysics_Teacher and @FeersumEnjineeya also all have a decent idea of how many beans make five. As do a few others like @Mexicanpete from the outside.

    The problem is of course that outsiders assume education must be somehow easy to understand. Bright ones are actually the worst because they found it easy to receive.
    See my edit.
    That's very fair.
    It's a bit fucking annoying to be told that I'll get up at 6:40 tomorrow and ought to be in a half an hour earlier, and that at home time I'll just make them run around a non-existent playing field for an hour or two.
    Yes.

    Just as it was a bit annoying to be told teachers need extra training to spot and monitor children with SEND, because apparently they're not doing it. Nothing to do with the government taking away all the support because they don't want to pay for it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,151
    ydoethur said:

    I now feel honour bound to make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Amanda Spielman should be chief of OFSTED and Nick Gibb should be schools minister.

    Oh bollocks, those have already happened.

    Tom Lehrer would have to retire all over again.

    For some reason….


    ‘In German oder English I know how to count down,

    Und I’m learning Chinese,’ says Wernher von Braun.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Flattering, but a bit harsh. @Stuartinromford @maxh @FrequentLurker @Fysics_Teacher and @FeersumEnjineeya also all have a decent idea of how many beans make five. As do a few others like @Mexicanpete from the outside.

    The problem is of course that outsiders assume education must be somehow easy to understand. Bright ones are actually the worst because they found it easy to receive.
    See my edit.
    That's very fair.
    It's a bit fucking annoying to be told that I'll get up at 6:40 tomorrow and ought to be in a half an hour earlier, and that at home time I'll just make them run around a non-existent playing field for an hour or two.
    Yes.

    Just as it was a bit annoying to be told teachers need extra training to spot and monitor children with SEND, because apparently they're not doing it. Nothing to do with the government taking away all the support because they don't want to pay for it.
    Apparently we're the problem cos we don't give a shit.
    This'll be why I'm doing it for so much less money.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    edited January 15
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT because I don’t want ydoethur thinking I am not familiar with Gloucs geography:

    The Forest of Dean was where the dealers used to live. One was apparently in EMF. I didn’t partake myself, I was scared off by the whole just say no campaign, but for others it seemed to be the mother lode for illegal substances.

    Particularly my friend Will, whose father Charles was a travel writer and probable flint knapper who seemed to spend his early adulthood in Colombia.

    https://www.amazon.com/Fruit-Palace-Odyssey-Colombias-Underworld/dp/0312309260
    That’s the chap. Terrific book. Lived in a lovely old house in orchards a few miles outside Hereford, and Will had a hammock. I remember sleeping in it after a disco as a young teen with the music to Tom’s diner going through my head.
    A brilliant book. You can tell Charles, or his son, or whoever cares and survives, that it was pressed upon me, as her “all time favourite book” by my then girlfriend Mariella Frostrup. A lovely lady who - at the time - looked like THIS



    *sobs, quietly and agedly, into his 19 Crimes Red Blend*
  • TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Every now and then we seem to reach the stage with a particular public service where the debate is either no change or some clever wheeze that will somehow fix everything.

    We all know from the day to day of business that the answer is usually to keep trying things out, not overcommitting unless it’s a real crisis, properly funding investment, focusing on recruitment and retention, keeping the physical assets fresh etc.

    The ultimate aim should always be competence.
    Which goes back to the appeal of Starmer. He gives off relatively competent vibes. Whether they're backed by actual competence is a matter for debate, and remains to be seen. But after a period of government by "press this big red button and see what happens", managing the systems that exist, seeking incremental improvements and patiently building up infrastructure looks like it's worth a try. It seems to work well in countries that are doing better than the UK.

    Lots will hate it, but I'd happily vote for anyone who can Make Britain Boring Again.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 5,657
    edited January 15
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Flattering, but a bit harsh. @Stuartinromford @maxh @FrequentLurker @Fysics_Teacher and @FeersumEnjineeya also all have a decent idea of how many beans make five. As do a few others like @Mexicanpete from the outside.

    The problem is of course that outsiders assume education must be somehow easy to understand. Bright ones are actually the worst because they found it easy to receive.
    See my edit.
    That's very fair.
    It's a bit fucking annoying to be told that I'll get up at 6:40 tomorrow and ought to be in a half an hour earlier, and that at home time I'll just make them run around a non-existent playing field for an hour or two.
    Yes.

    Just as it was a bit annoying to be told teachers need extra training to spot and monitor children with SEND, because apparently they're not doing it. Nothing to do with the government taking away all the support because they don't want to pay for it.
    From a parents point of view teachers are not capable of diagnosin SEND children. My sons school I had a 6 month fight with because they wanted to do so when it wasnt needed. He just need correctional surgery. I also had a 6 month fight with the NHS to get him that surgery.

    Upshot is we managed to keep him out of a "special school" got the surgery done and he was one of only 2kids in his year to pass the 11 plus. So frankly no dont trust teachers to decide or diagnose
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re Sweden, after my recent deep dive on Europe and migration, I am now convinced a significant western European country will elect a hard/far right government in the next 5-10 years. And i don’t mean “in coalition” I mean: they will be handed the government, in toto. And they will enact some eye watering polices

    My guess is that the first will either be Sweden or France

    You could argue Italy has done it already with Meloni, but their system is so fucked and fractious nothing ever happens whoever is elected

    The far right parties in both countries seem stuck on around 20%:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2026_Swedish_general_election
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_French_legislative_election
    In 2010 the Sweden Democrats crossed the 5% threshold. For the first time

    Saying they are “stuck” on 20% is a bit like saying to the Wright Brothers ‘guys, you seem to be stuck in the air’
    I think stuck is about right. 30-35% seems to be the ceiling of proper alt- or far-right belief including proper racism and sexual conservatism.

    FPTP in the US and the runoff process in France and Brazil meant the support for a far right candidate could get above that ceiling but listen to the testimony of the floating voters in all those elections and above a certain threshold it’s all “Hilary’s just as bad”, “Lula is a crooked communist” and “Macron sold out the workers” rather than real far right opinion.

    The Nazis only ever managed mid 30s in the mid 30s. The secret for Fascists is not to get a majority but a plurality, and then turn the screw through canny coalition making and more nefarious means.
    But this is a mere truism. Any firm political belief or ideology can only command a hardcore of about 30-35%, absolute max, of the population. Human nature decrees it. You see this time and again. The other 65% are the don’t knows, don’t cares, don’t understands, and those actually personally against the ideology for emotional, political, individual reasons

    The key for the 30-35% is to persuade another 10-20% to join in, temporarily. Then you can transform society
    I think this is a fair point, honestly. I'd put the 'don't understands and don't cares' higher, frankly. I'm more interested in political minutiae than most, and even I cannot care about a lot of political beliefs and ideologies, and their solutions.

    You just are not going to get informed support for a political action over 50%. You have to allow, in whatever system, some form of wiggle room to get the widest range of supportive thing through.
  • Rishi has no political sense. A moron picking this fight and then backing down
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,151
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Flattering, but a bit harsh. @Stuartinromford @maxh @FrequentLurker @Fysics_Teacher and @FeersumEnjineeya also all have a decent idea of how many beans make five. As do a few others like @Mexicanpete from the outside.

    The problem is of course that outsiders assume education must be somehow easy to understand. Bright ones are actually the worst because they found it easy to receive.
    See my edit.
    That's very fair.
    It's a bit fucking annoying to be told that I'll get up at 6:40 tomorrow and ought to be in a half an hour earlier, and that at home time I'll just make them run around a non-existent playing field for an hour or two.
    Yes.

    Just as it was a bit annoying to be told teachers need extra training to spot and monitor children with SEND, because apparently they're not doing it. Nothing to do with the government taking away all the support because they don't want to pay for it.
    What about my ideas to

    1) put all children in Zorb balls made of stab proof plastic, with HEPA filters. At a stroke this eliminates all violence in schools, all allegations against teachers, and infection to/from/at/or/near children.

    2) provide all schools with a Saracen APC as a safe space for teachers. This can also be used for the instruction of children in the glories of the 1960s British automotive manufacturing sector.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    edited January 15
    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Flattering, but a bit harsh. @Stuartinromford @maxh @FrequentLurker @Fysics_Teacher and @FeersumEnjineeya also all have a decent idea of how many beans make five. As do a few others like @Mexicanpete from the outside.

    The problem is of course that outsiders assume education must be somehow easy to understand. Bright ones are actually the worst because they found it easy to receive.
    See my edit.
    That's very fair.
    It's a bit fucking annoying to be told that I'll get up at 6:40 tomorrow and ought to be in a half an hour earlier, and that at home time I'll just make them run around a non-existent playing field for an hour or two.
    Yes.

    Just as it was a bit annoying to be told teachers need extra training to spot and monitor children with SEND, because apparently they're not doing it. Nothing to do with the government taking away all the support because they don't want to pay for it.
    From a parents point of view teachers are not capable of diagnosin SEND children. My sons school I had a 6 month fight with because they wanted to do so when it wasnt needed. He just need correctional surgery. I also had a 6 month fight with the NHS to get him that surgery.

    Upshot is we managed to keep him out of a "special school" got the surgery done and he was one of only 2kids in his year to pass the 11 plus. So frankly no dont trust teachers to decide or diagnose
    It's not our fucking job.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Flattering, but a bit harsh. @Stuartinromford @maxh @FrequentLurker @Fysics_Teacher and @FeersumEnjineeya also all have a decent idea of how many beans make five. As do a few others like @Mexicanpete from the outside.

    The problem is of course that outsiders assume education must be somehow easy to understand. Bright ones are actually the worst because they found it easy to receive.
    See my edit.
    That's very fair.
    It's a bit fucking annoying to be told that I'll get up at 6:40 tomorrow and ought to be in a half an hour earlier, and that at home time I'll just make them run around a non-existent playing field for an hour or two.
    Yes.

    Just as it was a bit annoying to be told teachers need extra training to spot and monitor children with SEND, because apparently they're not doing it. Nothing to do with the government taking away all the support because they don't want to pay for it.
    From a parents point of view teachers are not capable of diagnosin SEND children. My sons school I had a 6 month fight with because they wanted to do so when it wasnt needed. He just need correctional surgery. I also had a 6 month fight with the NHS to get him that surgery.

    Upshot is we managed to keep him out of a "special school" got the surgery done and he was one of only 2kids in his year to pass the 11 plus. So frankly no dont trust teachers to decide or diagnose
    It's not our fucking job.
    If you want it to be then train us and pay us to do it.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 3,664

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Every now and then we seem to reach the stage with a particular public service where the debate is either no change or some clever wheeze that will somehow fix everything.

    We all know from the day to day of business that the answer is usually to keep trying things out, not overcommitting unless it’s a real crisis, properly funding investment, focusing on recruitment and retention, keeping the physical assets fresh etc.

    The ultimate aim should always be competence.
    Which goes back to the appeal of Starmer. He gives off relatively competent vibes. Whether they're backed by actual competence is a matter for debate, and remains to be seen. But after a period of government by "press this big red button and see what happens", managing the systems that exist, seeking incremental improvements and patiently building up infrastructure looks like it's worth a try. It seems to work well in countries that are doing better than the UK.

    Lots will hate it, but I'd happily vote for anyone who can Make Britain Boring Again.
    A lot to be said for competent vibes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    edited January 15
    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Every now and then we seem to reach the stage with a particular public service where the debate is either no change or some clever wheeze that will somehow fix everything.

    We all know from the day to day of business that the answer is usually to keep trying things out, not overcommitting unless it’s a real crisis, properly funding investment, focusing on recruitment and retention, keeping the physical assets fresh etc.

    The ultimate aim should always be competence.
    You do that and people just call it managed decline. They want transformation.

    Now, I do think managed decline can be a thing to some extent and transformation is both possible and necessary in some instances (though it is very hard, and even harder to get right), but the tenor of debate is either any change is a disaster (or could lead to it, so it doesn't end up happening, incremental improvement does not happen because people are pretending to be preparing for a big change), or only radical overhaul will work.

    It's odd, as politicians are desperate, as are management types, for quick wins, but they actually miss some genuine ones by trying to make announcement of something radical (or announcement of no change masquerading as change) a quick win in itself.

    The next government needs to tackle some things early on, announce the transformative stuff early, but not actually do it until mid-late term, when they can actually work through any kinks after fixing some obvious messes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    .
    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Flattering, but a bit harsh. @Stuartinromford @maxh @FrequentLurker @Fysics_Teacher and @FeersumEnjineeya also all have a decent idea of how many beans make five. As do a few others like @Mexicanpete from the outside.

    The problem is of course that outsiders assume education must be somehow easy to understand. Bright ones are actually the worst because they found it easy to receive.
    See my edit.
    That's very fair.
    It's a bit fucking annoying to be told that I'll get up at 6:40 tomorrow and ought to be in a half an hour earlier, and that at home time I'll just make them run around a non-existent playing field for an hour or two.
    Yes.

    Just as it was a bit annoying to be told teachers need extra training to spot and monitor children with SEND, because apparently they're not doing it. Nothing to do with the government taking away all the support because they don't want to pay for it.
    From a parents point of view teachers are not capable of diagnosin SEND children. My sons school I had a 6 month fight with because they wanted to do so when it wasnt needed. He just need correctional surgery. I also had a 6 month fight with the NHS to get him that surgery.

    Upshot is we managed to keep him out of a "special school" got the surgery done and he was one of only 2kids in his year to pass the 11 plus. So frankly no dont trust teachers to decide or diagnose
    It's not our fucking job.
    It's not our job to diagnose it. We tend to be the first ones to spot it.

    Frankly, I've had more trouble in the past persuading parents their child needs testing than the other way around.
  • Rishi has no political sense. A moron picking this fight and then backing down

    Not moronic to back down. But a smarter operator would have seen how this was going to end and not picked the fight.

    Luke 14:31, everyone.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,639
    TimS said:

    FPT because I don’t want ydoethur thinking I am not familiar with Gloucs geography:

    The Forest of Dean was where the dealers used to live. One was apparently in EMF. I didn’t partake myself, I was scared off by the whole just say no campaign, but for others it seemed to be the mother lode for illegal substances.

    Particularly my friend Will, whose father Charles was a travel writer and probable flint knapper who seemed to spend his early adulthood in Colombia.

    Wasn’t Will the dull one with the pretty wife. It was his second son, Harry, who was an expert on all things Colombian
  • Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT because I don’t want ydoethur thinking I am not familiar with Gloucs geography:

    The Forest of Dean was where the dealers used to live. One was apparently in EMF. I didn’t partake myself, I was scared off by the whole just say no campaign, but for others it seemed to be the mother lode for illegal substances.

    Particularly my friend Will, whose father Charles was a travel writer and probable flint knapper who seemed to spend his early adulthood in Colombia.

    https://www.amazon.com/Fruit-Palace-Odyssey-Colombias-Underworld/dp/0312309260
    That’s the chap. Terrific book. Lived in a lovely old house in orchards a few miles outside Hereford, and Will had a hammock. I remember sleeping in it after a disco as a young teen with the music to Tom’s diner going through my head.
    A brilliant book. You can tell Charles, or his son, or whoever cares and survives, that it was pressed upon me, as her “all time favourite book” by my then girlfriend Mariella Frostrup. A lovely lady who - at the time - looked like THIS



    *sobs, quietly and agedly, into his 19 Crimes Red Blend*
    What a sad individual you are. Posting a photo of a woman and claiming she was your girlfriend. Genuinely, are you 12?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT because I don’t want ydoethur thinking I am not familiar with Gloucs geography:

    The Forest of Dean was where the dealers used to live. One was apparently in EMF. I didn’t partake myself, I was scared off by the whole just say no campaign, but for others it seemed to be the mother lode for illegal substances.

    Particularly my friend Will, whose father Charles was a travel writer and probable flint knapper who seemed to spend his early adulthood in Colombia.

    https://www.amazon.com/Fruit-Palace-Odyssey-Colombias-Underworld/dp/0312309260
    That’s the chap. Terrific book. Lived in a lovely old house in orchards a few miles outside Hereford, and Will had a hammock. I remember sleeping in it after a disco as a young teen with the music to Tom’s diner going through my head.
    A brilliant book. You can tell Charles, or his son, or whoever cares and survives, that it was pressed upon me, as her “all time favourite book” by my then girlfriend Mariella Frostrup. A lovely lady who - at the time - looked like THIS



    *sobs, quietly and agedly, into his 19 Crimes Red Blend*
    What a sad individual you are. Posting a photo of a woman and claiming she was your girlfriend. Genuinely, are you 12?
    59. She’s now 60

    Time waits for no man. So my sincere advice is: FUCK THEM WHILE YOU CAN
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Every now and then we seem to reach the stage with a particular public service where the debate is either no change or some clever wheeze that will somehow fix everything.

    We all know from the day to day of business that the answer is usually to keep trying things out, not overcommitting unless it’s a real crisis, properly funding investment, focusing on recruitment and retention, keeping the physical assets fresh etc.

    The ultimate aim should always be competence.
    Which goes back to the appeal of Starmer. He gives off relatively competent vibes. Whether they're backed by actual competence is a matter for debate, and remains to be seen. But after a period of government by "press this big red button and see what happens", managing the systems that exist, seeking incremental improvements and patiently building up infrastructure looks like it's worth a try. It seems to work well in countries that are doing better than the UK.

    Lots will hate it, but I'd happily vote for anyone who can Make Britain Boring Again.
    He's a fairly dull seeming getting on for elderly lawyer turned MP, of course he gives off relatively competent vibes, that's practically the default setting for a PM, in our mental pictures.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    ydoethur said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Flattering, but a bit harsh. @Stuartinromford @maxh @FrequentLurker @Fysics_Teacher and @FeersumEnjineeya also all have a decent idea of how many beans make five. As do a few others like @Mexicanpete from the outside.

    The problem is of course that outsiders assume education must be somehow easy to understand. Bright ones are actually the worst because they found it easy to receive.
    See my edit.
    That's very fair.
    It's a bit fucking annoying to be told that I'll get up at 6:40 tomorrow and ought to be in a half an hour earlier, and that at home time I'll just make them run around a non-existent playing field for an hour or two.
    Yes.

    Just as it was a bit annoying to be told teachers need extra training to spot and monitor children with SEND, because apparently they're not doing it. Nothing to do with the government taking away all the support because they don't want to pay for it.
    From a parents point of view teachers are not capable of diagnosin SEND children. My sons school I had a 6 month fight with because they wanted to do so when it wasnt needed. He just need correctional surgery. I also had a 6 month fight with the NHS to get him that surgery.

    Upshot is we managed to keep him out of a "special school" got the surgery done and he was one of only 2kids in his year to pass the 11 plus. So frankly no dont trust teachers to decide or diagnose
    It's not our fucking job.
    It's not our job to diagnose it. We tend to be the first ones to spot it.

    Frankly, I've had more trouble in the past persuading parents their child needs testing than the other way around.
    Absolutely.
    Get grief for even suggesting it.
    Then. After all other options are exhausted nae thanks or apologies.
    A couple of extra hours a day would whip us into shape.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    edited January 15
    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:



    A few elderly Challenger IIs will not be enough to stem the tide.

    10% of what was needed several months later than would have been most useful has been the dominant theme of British weapons to Ukraine from NLAW onward.

    France 24 did a very good piece that showed what it's really like on the front line of the SMO in Bakhlepool.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO94rW4tHNs

    TLDW: It's Berlin 1945 fucked. The local community is split, even across family lines, among those who are pro Russia/Ukraine (It's their version of Brexit, but less bitter). Lot of fat lads in the AFU, rations must be good.

    Unless Russia can develop a northern front through Belarus (no idea how feasible or likely this is) I think the front lines are pretty much stagnant at this point.
    Which would suit them reasonably well, after what everyone seems to agree was a harder fight than they expected. Stagnation worked for their last land grab after all.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,949
    NHS ‘bed-blocking’ fuelled by 50 steps needed to discharge fit patients
    On average, around 14,000 patients deemed fit to leave hospital are stuck in beds every day, according to official figures

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/15/nhs-bed-blocking-fuelled-50-steps-needed-discharge-fit-patients/ (£££)

    We were discussing this the other day on pb.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,639
    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cicero said:



    A few elderly Challenger IIs will not be enough to stem the tide.

    10% of what was needed several months later than would have been most useful has been the dominant theme of British weapons to Ukraine from NLAW onward.

    France 24 did a very good piece that showed what it's really like on the front line of the SMO in Bakhlepool.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO94rW4tHNs

    TLDW: It's Berlin 1945 fucked. The local community is split, even across family lines, among those who are pro Russia/Ukraine (It's their version of Brexit, but less bitter). Lot of fat lads in the AFU, rations must be good.

    Unless Russia can develop a northern front through Belarus (no idea how feasible or likely this is) I think the front lines are pretty much stagnant at this point.
    Which would suit them reasonably well, after what everyone seems to agree was a harder fight than they expected. Stagnation worked for their last land grab after all.
    @Dura_Ace previous projection was Ukraine would get rolled. Treat with a pinch of salt.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    Well, congratulations Judd Trump.

    And I'm off to bed.

    Sweet dreams all.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,151
    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Every now and then we seem to reach the stage with a particular public service where the debate is either no change or some clever wheeze that will somehow fix everything.

    We all know from the day to day of business that the answer is usually to keep trying things out, not overcommitting unless it’s a real crisis, properly funding investment, focusing on recruitment and retention, keeping the physical assets fresh etc.

    The ultimate aim should always be competence.
    You do that and people just call it managed decline. They want transformation.

    Now, I do think managed decline can be a thing to some extent and transformation is both possible and necessary in some instances (though it is very hard, and even harder to get right), but the tenor of debate is either any change is a disaster (or could lead to it, so it doesn't end up happening, incremental improvement does not happen because people are pretending to be preparing for a big change), or only radical overhaul will work.

    It's odd, as politicians are desperate, as are management types, for quick wins, but they actually miss some genuine ones by trying to make announcement of something radical (or announcement of no change masquerading as change) a quick win in itself.

    The next government needs to tackle some things early on, announce the transformative stuff early, but not actually do it until mid-late term, when they can actually work through any kinks after fixing some obvious messes.
    Transformation that works is both radical and incremental.

    Space X were radical in rethinking every aspect of boring old 2 stage rocketry. And incremental in redesigning bits lots of times. The engines went through about as many variations as the RR Merlin of Spitfire fame.

    For government, you want to come up with changes that can be tested on a small scale, and gradually rolled out. More attempted Big Bangs will just go bang.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 896
    FPT
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Has anyone tried Uruguayan wine?

    I'm having my first bottle now: Garzón Reserva Tannat 2020

    I'm told that Tannat, a native of Gascony, is known as the national grape in Uruguay

    It's excellent, and I'd love to compare it to a similarly priced Gascony Tannat (£16.60 a bottle according to this and well worth it according to me https://www.vinvm.co.uk/bodega-garzon-reserva-tannat-2020 )

    Yes. They’ve discovered the secret to new world use of old world varieties: find an obscure grape that suits your terroir and make of your own. Tannât isn’t even the main grape of Gascony, that’s Malbec.

    Uruguay: Tannât
    Argentina: Malbec
    S Africa: Chenin Blanc
    Hunter Valley: Sémillon
    NZ: Sauvignon Blanc

    England hadn’t yet woken up to the fact our superstar grape is Pinot Meunier, but it’ll come.

    EDIT: in case any of you think I’m being twatty putting accents on the grape varieties, that’s just iPhone autocomplete.
    Not questioning your knowledge, but surely England as a whole cannot have a single terroir? Surely different climate, soil types, height etc must play a part?
    Been away doing washing ups and baths but back now.

    The areas of England with suitable climate for viticulture with traditional old world varieties are very limited: Kent, East and West Sussex, Eastern Thames Valley, Essex, bits of Suffolk, part of Hampshire and Dorset, favoured slopes in Herefordshire and Monmouthshire and at a push Devon.

    Vast majority of that is either chalk, clay, or Wealden sand formations. Chalk is more common to the West in Hants but the climate is marginal.

    Generally Chardonnay does well on chalk, Pinot Noir is good on clay or gravel, and Meunier is good on clay, quaternary deposits and marl. Of which we have much. But the most important thing is that Britain is cold and cloudy enough for Meunier. It’s an ultra marginal cool climate grape, and it’s also underrated by the French - just like Tannât, Malbec and Chenin Blanc.

    The other unloved and underrated grape with a hopefully bright niche future is Melon de Bourgogne (aka muscadet), which I am growing and the first in England to do so. If if ripens - and that’s a big if - I reckon it’ll be a revelation.
    You forgot Gloucestershire, which was the centre of the UK wine industry for decades until around ten years ago.
    Yes, around Newent and the Severn Valley. I kind of see it as greater Herefordshire. The rest of Gloucs is the Cotswolds which are too high and cold.
    Yo Tim.

    I have a vinicultural question. Just how and why is “19 Crimes” wine so good?!

    Here in Thailand all wine is horrifically taxed. So to get a halfway good bottle you normally need to
    spend £20. Ugh

    You can buy 19 Crimes for £12. And I do. Every day. Because it is just as good as the £20 bottles.

    It is nothing exceptional. But it is highly drinkable and I bet 99% of us - including me - might fail to distinguish it in a blind tasting from bottles thrice the price - in the UK or Thailand or anywhere

    It feels to me like the Aussies have produced another Jacobs Creek. A world beater. What are they doing?!
    They went through the viticultural transition. Like Beaujolais, muscadet, Mosel Riesling and Vouvray.

    In the 1990s Aussie wines became hugely popular in Britain and later in other export markets. As a result they planted everywhere, on shitty too hot too flat land where the vines did what the French call “pissing wine”. They ended up with overproduction, quickly lost brand value and prices and viability
    plummeted.

    So then we had a period of creative destruction in the 2000s. Most of the crap vineyards were grubbed up. What was left was decent terroir and good quality, but artificially low prices. Just like Beaujolais after the nouveau boom or Muscadet after the 1980s over-planting. Buy a Georges Duboeuf cru Beaujolais and you’re getting something way cheaper than it should be.

    I was at a tasting of Aussie wines a while back with Will Lyons. One he served was incredible. He revealed after we’d all tasted that it was Jacob’s Creek. 19 crimes isn’t fine wine but it’s pretty solid and borne of the same history,

    The answer I hoped for. Ta. Fascinating

    A few years ago I had dinner with the guy who devised the marketing for Jacob’s Creek. He chuckled darkly and said “Yeah, we call it the longest Creek in the world”


    19 Crimes is destroying the opposition here in Thailand. It now has whole shelves to itself. Because it is reliably good and enjoyable and half the price of the equivalents. The Aussies really know how to make and sell good mass market wine. Chapeau to them


    @Leon you were asking for podcast recommendations, the Bangkok Podcast did an episode about booze taxes & imports a while back. https://www.bangkokpodcast.com/

    I'm too lazy to search for the particular episode - but worth checking out given your current situation. (they often hold ex-pat-esque booze-ups).
  • TimSTimS Posts: 3,664
    edited January 15
    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Every now and then we seem to reach the stage with a particular public service where the debate is either no change or some clever wheeze that will somehow fix everything.

    We all know from the day to day of business that the answer is usually to keep trying things out, not overcommitting unless it’s a real crisis, properly funding investment, focusing on recruitment and retention, keeping the physical assets fresh etc.

    The ultimate aim should always be competence.
    You do that and people just call it managed decline. They want transformation.

    Now, I do think managed decline can be a thing to some extent and transformation is both possible and necessary in some instances (though it is very hard, and even harder to get right), but the tenor of debate is either any change is a disaster (or could lead to it, so it doesn't end up happening, incremental improvement does not happen because people are pretending to be preparing for a big change), or only radical overhaul will work.

    It's odd, as politicians are desperate, as are management types, for quick wins, but they actually miss some genuine ones by trying to make announcement of something radical (or announcement of no change masquerading as change) a quick win in itself.

    The next government needs to tackle some things early on, announce the transformative stuff early, but not actually do it until mid-late term, when they can actually work through any kinks after fixing some obvious messes.
    I think, and experience would suggest, that the difference between managed decline and incremental progress is money. Invest it, and things will improve. Slowly perhaps, but it’ll happen. Starve the system, and it’s decline.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,151
    Can we have @MoonRabbit doing drunk posting, please. She is much better at it than @Leon

    The pizza on the ceiling thing was magnificent.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    ohnotnow said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Has anyone tried Uruguayan wine?

    I'm having my first bottle now: Garzón Reserva Tannat 2020

    I'm told that Tannat, a native of Gascony, is known as the national grape in Uruguay

    It's excellent, and I'd love to compare it to a similarly priced Gascony Tannat (£16.60 a bottle according to this and well worth it according to me https://www.vinvm.co.uk/bodega-garzon-reserva-tannat-2020 )

    Yes. They’ve discovered the secret to new world use of old world varieties: find an obscure grape that suits your terroir and make of your own. Tannât isn’t even the main grape of Gascony, that’s Malbec.

    Uruguay: Tannât
    Argentina: Malbec
    S Africa: Chenin Blanc
    Hunter Valley: Sémillon
    NZ: Sauvignon Blanc

    England hadn’t yet woken up to the fact our superstar grape is Pinot Meunier, but it’ll come.

    EDIT: in case any of you think I’m being twatty putting accents on the grape varieties, that’s just iPhone autocomplete.
    Not questioning your knowledge, but surely England as a whole cannot have a single terroir? Surely different climate, soil types, height etc must play a part?
    Been away doing washing ups and baths but back now.

    The areas of England with suitable climate for viticulture with traditional old world varieties are very limited: Kent, East and West Sussex, Eastern Thames Valley, Essex, bits of Suffolk, part of Hampshire and Dorset, favoured slopes in Herefordshire and Monmouthshire and at a push Devon.

    Vast majority of that is either chalk, clay, or Wealden sand formations. Chalk is more common to the West in Hants but the climate is marginal.

    Generally Chardonnay does well on chalk, Pinot Noir is good on clay or gravel, and Meunier is good on clay, quaternary deposits and marl. Of which we have much. But the most important thing is that Britain is cold and cloudy enough for Meunier. It’s an ultra marginal cool climate grape, and it’s also underrated by the French - just like Tannât, Malbec and Chenin Blanc.

    The other unloved and underrated grape with a hopefully bright niche future is Melon de Bourgogne (aka muscadet), which I am growing and the first in England to do so. If if ripens - and that’s a big if - I reckon it’ll be a revelation.
    You forgot Gloucestershire, which was the centre of the UK wine industry for decades until around ten years ago.
    Yes, around Newent and the Severn Valley. I kind of see it as greater Herefordshire. The rest of Gloucs is the Cotswolds which are too high and cold.
    Yo Tim.

    I have a vinicultural question. Just how and why is “19 Crimes” wine so good?!

    Here in Thailand all wine is horrifically taxed. So to get a halfway good bottle you normally need to
    spend £20. Ugh

    You can buy 19 Crimes for £12. And I do. Every day. Because it is just as good as the £20 bottles.

    It is nothing exceptional. But it is highly drinkable and I bet 99% of us - including me - might fail to distinguish it in a blind tasting from bottles thrice the price - in the UK or Thailand or anywhere

    It feels to me like the Aussies have produced another Jacobs Creek. A world beater. What are they doing?!
    They went through the viticultural transition. Like Beaujolais, muscadet, Mosel Riesling and Vouvray.

    In the 1990s Aussie wines became hugely popular in Britain and later in other export markets. As a result they planted everywhere, on shitty too hot too flat land where the vines did what the French call “pissing wine”. They ended up with overproduction, quickly lost brand value and prices and viability
    plummeted.

    So then we had a period of creative destruction in the 2000s. Most of the crap vineyards were grubbed up. What was left was decent terroir and good quality, but artificially low prices. Just like Beaujolais after the nouveau boom or Muscadet after the 1980s over-planting. Buy a Georges Duboeuf cru Beaujolais and you’re getting something way cheaper than it should be.

    I was at a tasting of Aussie wines a while back with Will Lyons. One he served was incredible. He revealed after we’d all tasted that it was Jacob’s Creek. 19 crimes isn’t fine wine but it’s pretty solid and borne of the same history,

    The answer I hoped for. Ta. Fascinating

    A few years ago I had dinner with the guy who devised the marketing for Jacob’s Creek. He chuckled darkly and said “Yeah, we call it the longest Creek in the world”


    19 Crimes is destroying the opposition here in Thailand. It now has whole shelves to itself. Because it is reliably good and enjoyable and half the price of the equivalents. The Aussies really know how to make and sell good mass market wine. Chapeau to them


    @Leon you were asking for podcast recommendations, the Bangkok Podcast did an episode about booze taxes & imports a while back. https://www.bangkokpodcast.com/

    I'm too lazy to search for the particular episode - but worth checking out given your current situation. (they often hold ex-pat-esque booze-ups).
    👍 ta
  • kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Every now and then we seem to reach the stage with a particular public service where the debate is either no change or some clever wheeze that will somehow fix everything.

    We all know from the day to day of business that the answer is usually to keep trying things out, not overcommitting unless it’s a real crisis, properly funding investment, focusing on recruitment and retention, keeping the physical assets fresh etc.

    The ultimate aim should always be competence.
    Which goes back to the appeal of Starmer. He gives off relatively competent vibes. Whether they're backed by actual competence is a matter for debate, and remains to be seen. But after a period of government by "press this big red button and see what happens", managing the systems that exist, seeking incremental improvements and patiently building up infrastructure looks like it's worth a try. It seems to work well in countries that are doing better than the UK.

    Lots will hate it, but I'd happily vote for anyone who can Make Britain Boring Again.
    He's a fairly dull seeming getting on for elderly lawyer turned MP, of course he gives off relatively competent vibes, that's practically the default setting for a PM, in our mental pictures.
    I have to interject, but being sixty doesn't make you "elderly."

  • Eddie Jones is back - is 2023 the year of 2nd chances in old jobs?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    FPT because I don’t want ydoethur thinking I am not familiar with Gloucs geography:

    The Forest of Dean was where the dealers used to live. One was apparently in EMF. I didn’t partake myself, I was scared off by the whole just say no campaign, but for others it seemed to be the mother lode for illegal substances.

    Particularly my friend Will, whose father Charles was a travel writer and probable flint knapper who seemed to spend his early adulthood in Colombia.

    https://www.amazon.com/Fruit-Palace-Odyssey-Colombias-Underworld/dp/0312309260
    That’s the chap. Terrific book. Lived in a lovely old house in orchards a few miles outside Hereford, and Will had a hammock. I remember sleeping in it after a disco as a young teen with the music to Tom’s diner going through my head.
    A brilliant book. You can tell Charles, or his son, or whoever cares and survives, that it was pressed upon me, as her “all time favourite book” by my then girlfriend Mariella Frostrup. A lovely lady who - at the time - looked like THIS



    *sobs, quietly and agedly, into his 19 Crimes Red Blend*
    Darling of the luvvies is Mariella, quite a catch and friend of Gordon Brown maybe less so
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
    edited January 15

    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi and Hunt are going to have to give nurses something.

    Obviously the 19% payrise the RCN wants is unaffordable but a one off winter payment for those earning under £40k would help

    The trouble with a one-off payment is what happens next year? Even if inflation falls, the cost of living will still be going
    up. Withdrawal of the payment isn't going to fly politically- and that row would drop at the start of an election year.

    (Plus the underlying issue that high vacancy rates are nature's way of telling an employer that they are demanding too much work for too little total reward.)
    I assume it's going to need to be a one-off payment plus a % increase, but the one-off payment would then justify a lower % increase than otherwise.

    The other thing about a one-off payment is it looks great on paper until you see your payslip and you see how much of it went straight back to the government via the tax man.
    Just give say a £1000 payment to all nurses earning under £40k this year taking their total increase to at least about 6.5% with more for the lowest earners (including the 4% they have already been offered).

    If inflation still high next year do the same
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,949

    Eddie Jones is back - is 2023 the year of 2nd chances in old jobs?

    Boris? Trump? It is not working out for West Ham with David Moyes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Every now and then we seem to reach the stage with a particular public service where the debate is either no change or some clever wheeze that will somehow fix everything.

    We all know from the day to day of business that the answer is usually to keep trying things out, not overcommitting unless it’s a real crisis, properly funding investment, focusing on recruitment and retention, keeping the physical assets fresh etc.

    The ultimate aim should always be competence.
    Which goes back to the appeal of Starmer. He gives off relatively competent vibes. Whether they're backed by actual competence is a matter for debate, and remains to be seen. But after a period of government by "press this big red button and see what happens", managing the systems that exist, seeking incremental improvements and patiently building up infrastructure looks like it's worth a try. It seems to work well in countries that are doing better than the UK.

    Lots will hate it, but I'd happily vote for anyone who can Make Britain Boring Again.
    He's a fairly dull seeming getting on for elderly lawyer turned MP, of course he gives off relatively competent vibes, that's practically the default setting for a PM, in our mental pictures.
    I have to interject, but being sixty doesn't make you "elderly."

    I said 'getting on for elderly' as a compromise, as I felt 60 as middle age might give an impression of anywhere in the 40-60 range but didn't want to go full on in calling it elderly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567

    Eddie Jones is back - is 2023 the year of 2nd chances in old jobs?

    Boris? Trump? It is not working out for West Ham with David Moyes.
    Moyes already got his second change at West Ham. And did a pretty decent job, since they at least gave him some time this go around, even if it may well be time for change again.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,035

    Mike like you I (used to) appreciate all the detailed tables with the Opinium polls. But unlike you I no longer have access to the data. When I search on the Opinium site or just I click on the Opinium link on the top right of this thread, the last detailed detailed voting intention poll there is dated 5th October 2022.

    So where are you getting the data from? Do Opinium provide open access, if so where is the link?

    It's a genuine question, I'd much appreciate an answer.

    This is the link https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/VI-2023-01-11-Data-Tables-Observer.xlsx

    I find the best source of this data is on the Wikipedia UK polling page

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
    Thank you, much appreciated.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,743

    I wonder whom the people selecting "someone else" have in mind.

    The dastardly SNPBAD: for sitting down and talking and setting a good example. The rotters!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,696
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi and Hunt are going to have to give nurses something.

    Obviously the 19% payrise the RCN wants is unaffordable but a one off winter payment for those earning under £40k would help

    The trouble with a one-off payment is what happens next year? Even if inflation falls, the cost of living will still be going
    up. Withdrawal of the payment isn't going to fly politically- and that row would drop at the start of an election year.

    (Plus the underlying issue that high vacancy rates are nature's way of telling an employer that they are demanding too much work for too little total reward.)
    I assume it's going to need to be a one-off payment plus a % increase, but the one-off payment would then justify a lower % increase than otherwise.

    The other thing about a one-off payment is it looks great on paper until you see your payslip and you see how much of it went straight back to the government via the tax man.
    Just give say a £1000 payment to all nurses earning under £40k this year taking their total increase to at least about 6.5% with more for the lowest earners (including the 4% they have already been offered).

    If inflation still high next year do the same
    Lol pathetic
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,477


    Western Europe not confident.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,334
    The whole model of pay review body needs examination, I am not sighted on how they are recruited etc but I sense that the process has been politicised (prob by both sides). Its the same in the military where recommendations on pay are often arbitrarily ignored or kicked into the long grass (I sense the hand of the Treasury etc..)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,818
    I see we got to the stage last night where a sad old man got to posting pictures of his 'ex'. ;)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756

    I wonder whom the people selecting "someone else" have in mind.

    The dastardly SNPBAD: for sitting down and talking and setting a good example. The rotters!
    you mean, like they have with teachers?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 19,093
    edited January 16
    ...
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Flattering, but a bit harsh. @Stuartinromford @maxh @FrequentLurker @Fysics_Teacher and @FeersumEnjineeya also all have a decent idea of how many beans make five. As do a few others like @Mexicanpete from the outside.

    The problem is of course that outsiders assume education must be somehow easy to understand. Bright ones are actually the worst because they found it easy to receive.
    Thanks for the name check.

    I am not sure I have much idea, but for my own experience, that of my children and what I learned from both my parents lifetime in teaching up to senior levels, I have to admit this counted for nothing, and I got an absolute spanking by the PB educational experts on the previous thread.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,818
    Elon Musk on the BBC:

    "Kudos to the BBC for self-labelling its state affiliation"

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1614851530016067586
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 49,020
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Flattering, but a bit harsh. @Stuartinromford @maxh @FrequentLurker @Fysics_Teacher and @FeersumEnjineeya also all have a decent idea of how many beans make five. As do a few others like @Mexicanpete from the outside.

    The problem is of course that outsiders assume education must be somehow easy to understand. Bright ones are actually the worst because they found it easy to receive.
    See my edit.
    That's very fair.
    It's a bit fucking annoying to be told that I'll get up at 6:40 tomorrow and ought to be in a half an hour earlier, and that at home time I'll just make them run around a non-existent playing field for an hour or two.
    Yes.

    Just as it was a bit annoying to be told teachers need extra training to spot and monitor children with SEND, because apparently they're not doing it. Nothing to do with the government taking away all the support because they don't want to pay for it.
    From a parents point of view teachers are not capable of diagnosin SEND children. My sons school I had a 6 month fight with because they wanted to do so when it wasnt needed. He just need correctional surgery. I also had a 6 month fight with the NHS to get him that surgery.

    Upshot is we managed to keep him out of a "special school" got the surgery done and he was one of only 2kids in his year to pass the 11 plus. So frankly no dont trust teachers to decide or diagnose
    It's not our fucking job.
    It's not our job to diagnose it. We tend to be the first ones to spot it.

    Frankly, I've had more trouble in the past persuading parents their child needs testing than the other way around.
    Absolutely.
    Get grief for even suggesting it.
    Then. After all other options are exhausted nae thanks or apologies.
    A couple of extra hours a day would whip us into shape.
    This is why @DavidL and I pointed out education reform would have such a problem with the teaching unions.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002

    Elon Musk on the BBC:

    "Kudos to the BBC for self-labelling its state affiliation"

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1614851530016067586

    Maybe I'm an idiot, and I know lots of people think this was an incredible clever and insightful comment... But what exactly is he talking about?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    rcs1000 said:

    Elon Musk on the BBC:

    "Kudos to the BBC for self-labelling its state affiliation"

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1614851530016067586

    Maybe I'm an idiot, and I know lots of people think this was an incredible clever and insightful comment... But what exactly is he talking about?
    Inbreatheate? *shakes head* Not a word.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 9,073

    Elon Musk on the BBC:

    "Kudos to the BBC for self-labelling its state affiliation"

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1614851530016067586

    Surprisingly limited experience of the media world for someone who blew 44 billion dollars on a media company.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002
    carnforth said:



    Western Europe not confident.

    Nor is the US, Singapore or South Korea.

    On the other hand, South Africa (which I'd reckon has a non trivial chance of total collapse) is relatively optimistic.

    Ditto Mexico, where drug cartels are eating away at the fabric of democracy.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,818
    rcs1000 said:

    Elon Musk on the BBC:

    "Kudos to the BBC for self-labelling its state affiliation"

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1614851530016067586

    Maybe I'm an idiot, and I know lots of people think this was an incredible clever and insightful comment... But what exactly is he talking about?
    I've zero idea. My assumption is that the BBC has published something, or is about to publish something, that has annoyed the world's richest man-child.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002
    rcs1000 said:

    carnforth said:



    Western Europe not confident.

    Nor is the US, Singapore or South Korea.

    On the other hand, South Africa (which I'd reckon has a non trivial chance of total collapse) is relatively optimistic.

    Ditto Mexico, where drug cartels are eating away at the fabric of democracy.
    Saudi Arabia probably has the least reason to feel confident, given the growing importance of renewables to the energy mix.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 16,322

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Every now and then we seem to reach the stage with a particular public service where the debate is either no change or some clever wheeze that will somehow fix everything.

    We all know from the day to day of business that the answer is usually to keep trying things out, not overcommitting unless it’s a real crisis, properly funding investment, focusing on recruitment and retention, keeping the physical assets fresh etc.

    The ultimate aim should always be competence.
    Which goes back to the appeal of Starmer. He gives off relatively competent vibes. Whether they're backed by actual competence is a matter for debate, and remains to be seen. But after a period of government by "press this big red button and see what happens", managing the systems that exist, seeking incremental improvements and patiently building up infrastructure looks like it's worth a try. It seems to work well in countries that are doing better than the UK.

    Lots will hate it, but I'd happily vote for anyone who can Make Britain Boring Again.
    He's a fairly dull seeming getting on for elderly lawyer turned MP, of course he gives off relatively competent vibes, that's practically the default setting for a PM, in our mental pictures.
    I have to interject, but being sixty doesn't make you "elderly."

    So why do over 60s get free bus passes......
  • eekeek Posts: 22,078
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi and Hunt are going to have to give nurses something.

    Obviously the 19% payrise the RCN wants is unaffordable but a one off winter payment for those earning under £40k would help

    The trouble with a one-off payment is what happens next year? Even if inflation falls, the cost of living will still be going
    up. Withdrawal of the payment isn't going to fly politically- and that row would drop at the start of an election year.

    (Plus the underlying issue that high vacancy rates are nature's way of telling an employer that they are demanding too much work for too little total reward.)
    I assume it's going to need to be a one-off payment plus a % increase, but the one-off payment would then justify a lower % increase than otherwise.

    The other thing about a one-off payment is it looks great on paper until you see your payslip and you see how much of it went straight back to the government via the tax man.
    Just give say a £1000 payment to all nurses earning under £40k this year taking their total increase to at least about 6.5% with more for the lowest earners (including the 4% they have already been offered).

    If inflation still high next year do the same
    No union is going to accept a real world pay cut.
    And it doesn’t solve any of the unions complaints beyond current cost of living issues which is less than 50% of just 1 of their complaints
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 16,322
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    carnforth said:



    Western Europe not confident.

    Nor is the US, Singapore or South Korea.

    On the other hand, South Africa (which I'd reckon has a non trivial chance of total collapse) is relatively optimistic.

    Ditto Mexico, where drug cartels are eating away at the fabric of democracy.
    Saudi Arabia probably has the least reason to feel confident, given the growing importance of renewables to the energy mix.
    People's financial estimations feel about right to me. Most in Western Europe will be similar or worse off. Most in the rest of the world will be better off.
  • eekeek Posts: 22,078
    Have we done Wyoming politicians trying to ban EV cars from 2035.

    https://www.teslarati.com/wyoming-phase-out-evs-2035/
  • eekeek Posts: 22,078

    rcs1000 said:

    Elon Musk on the BBC:

    "Kudos to the BBC for self-labelling its state affiliation"

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1614851530016067586

    Maybe I'm an idiot, and I know lots of people think this was an incredible clever and insightful comment... But what exactly is he talking about?
    I've zero idea. My assumption is that the BBC has published something, or is about to publish something, that has annoyed the world's richest man-child.
    It published a Musk lost $200bn in wealth story on Friday I think
  • eekeek Posts: 22,078
    edited January 16

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Flattering, but a bit harsh. @Stuartinromford @maxh @FrequentLurker @Fysics_Teacher and @FeersumEnjineeya also all have a decent idea of how many beans make five. As do a few others like @Mexicanpete from the outside.

    The problem is of course that outsiders assume education must be somehow easy to understand. Bright ones are actually the worst because they found it easy to receive.
    See my edit.
    That's very fair.
    It's a bit fucking annoying to be told that I'll get up at 6:40 tomorrow and ought to be in a half an hour earlier, and that at home time I'll just make them run around a non-existent playing field for an hour or two.
    Yes.

    Just as it was a bit annoying to be told teachers need extra training to spot and monitor children with SEND, because apparently they're not doing it. Nothing to do with the government taking away all the support because they don't want to pay for it.
    From a parents point of view teachers are not capable of diagnosin SEND children. My sons school I had a 6 month fight with because they wanted to do so when it wasnt needed. He just need correctional surgery. I also had a 6 month fight with the NHS to get him that surgery.

    Upshot is we managed to keep him out of a "special school" got the surgery done and he was one of only 2kids in his year to pass the 11 plus. So frankly no dont trust teachers to decide or diagnose
    It's not our fucking job.
    It's not our job to diagnose it. We tend to be the first ones to spot it.

    Frankly, I've had more trouble in the past persuading parents their child needs testing than the other way around.
    Absolutely.
    Get grief for even suggesting it.
    Then. After all other options are exhausted nae thanks or apologies.
    A couple of extra hours a day would whip us into shape.
    This is why @DavidL and I pointed out education reform would have such a problem with the teaching unions.
    You need to understand the reason behind that.

    Reform => new syllabus => new teaching plans => extra (unpaid) work outside school

    Would you willingly do x00 hours work for free because management decided you are now a road engineer rather than railways
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,769

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Every now and then we seem to reach the stage with a particular public service where the debate is either no change or some clever wheeze that will somehow fix everything.

    We all know from the day to day of business that the answer is usually to keep trying things out, not overcommitting unless it’s a real crisis, properly funding investment, focusing on recruitment and retention, keeping the physical assets fresh etc.

    The ultimate aim should always be competence.
    Which goes back to the appeal of Starmer. He gives off relatively competent vibes. Whether they're backed by actual competence is a matter for debate, and remains to be seen. But after a period of government by "press this big red button and see what happens", managing the systems that exist, seeking incremental improvements and patiently building up infrastructure looks like it's worth a try. It seems to work well in countries that are doing better than the UK.

    Lots will hate it, but I'd happily vote for anyone who can Make Britain Boring Again.
    He's a fairly dull seeming getting on for elderly lawyer turned MP, of course he gives off relatively competent vibes, that's practically the default setting for a PM, in our mental pictures.
    I have to interject, but being sixty doesn't make you "elderly."

    So why do over 60s get free bus passes......
    Only in Scotland, Wales and NI. In England we wait until we are 66….
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    carnforth said:



    Western Europe not confident.

    Nor is the US, Singapore or South Korea.

    On the other hand, South Africa (which I'd reckon has a non trivial chance of total collapse) is relatively optimistic.

    Ditto Mexico, where drug cartels are eating away at the fabric of democracy.
    Saudi Arabia probably has the least reason to feel confident, given the growing importance of renewables to the energy mix.
    People's financial estimations feel about right to me. Most in Western Europe will be similar or worse off. Most in the rest of the world will be better off.
    I would be pretty negative on countries which are very dependent on energy exports.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    edited January 16
    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Flattering, but a bit harsh. @Stuartinromford @maxh @FrequentLurker @Fysics_Teacher and @FeersumEnjineeya also all have a decent idea of how many beans make five. As do a few others like @Mexicanpete from the outside.

    The problem is of course that outsiders assume education must be somehow easy to understand. Bright ones are actually the worst because they found it easy to receive.
    See my edit.
    That's very fair.
    It's a bit fucking annoying to be told that I'll get up at 6:40 tomorrow and ought to be in a half an hour earlier, and that at home time I'll just make them run around a non-existent playing field for an hour or two.
    Yes.

    Just as it was a bit annoying to be told teachers need extra training to spot and monitor children with SEND, because apparently they're not doing it. Nothing to do with the government taking away all the support because they don't want to pay for it.
    From a parents point of view teachers are not capable of diagnosin SEND children. My sons school I had a 6 month fight with because they wanted to do so when it wasnt needed. He just need correctional surgery. I also had a 6 month fight with the NHS to get him that surgery.

    Upshot is we managed to keep him out of a "special school" got the surgery done and he was one of only 2kids in his year to pass the 11 plus. So frankly no dont trust teachers to decide or diagnose
    It's not our fucking job.
    It's not our job to diagnose it. We tend to be the first ones to spot it.

    Frankly, I've had more trouble in the past persuading parents their child needs testing than the other way around.
    Absolutely.
    Get grief for even suggesting it.
    Then. After all other options are exhausted nae thanks or apologies.
    A couple of extra hours a day would whip us into shape.
    This is why @DavidL and I pointed out education reform would have such a problem with the teaching unions.
    You need to understand the reason behind that.

    Reform => new syllabus => new teaching plans => extra (unpaid) work outside school

    Would you willingly do x00 hours work for free because management decided you are now a road engineer rather than railways
    As a one-off, to improve things, it would be OK.

    The snags are (1) it’s never a one-off as the politicians and civil servants keep meddling and (2) it never improves things because they don’t understand the problems well enough to formulate solutions.

    Edit - in any case, I think CR was just talking about opening schools ten hours a day instead of six, which will definitely mean longer hours anyway unless staffing is about doubled.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 11,036
    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    It's really interesting.
    Me and @ydoethur aren't exactly political soulmates. But it seems like he's the only one who isn't just gonna make a completely ludicrous suggestion about education.

    Flattering, but a bit harsh. @Stuartinromford @maxh @FrequentLurker @Fysics_Teacher and @FeersumEnjineeya also all have a decent idea of how many beans make five. As do a few others like @Mexicanpete from the outside.

    The problem is of course that outsiders assume education must be somehow easy to understand. Bright ones are actually the worst because they found it easy to receive.
    See my edit.
    That's very fair.
    It's a bit fucking annoying to be told that I'll get up at 6:40 tomorrow and ought to be in a half an hour earlier, and that at home time I'll just make them run around a non-existent playing field for an hour or two.
    Yes.

    Just as it was a bit annoying to be told teachers need extra training to spot and monitor children with SEND, because apparently they're not doing it. Nothing to do with the government taking away all the support because they don't want to pay for it.
    From a parents point of view teachers are not capable of diagnosin SEND children. My sons school I had a 6 month fight with because they wanted to do so when it wasnt needed. He just need correctional surgery. I also had a 6 month fight with the NHS to get him that surgery.

    Upshot is we managed to keep him out of a "special school" got the surgery done and he was one of only 2kids in his year to pass the 11 plus. So frankly no dont trust teachers to decide or diagnose
    It's not our fucking job.
    It's not our job to diagnose it. We tend to be the first ones to spot it.

    Frankly, I've had more trouble in the past persuading parents their child needs testing than the other way around.
    Absolutely.
    Get grief for even suggesting it.
    Then. After all other options are exhausted nae thanks or apologies.
    A couple of extra hours a day would whip us into shape.
    This is why @DavidL and I pointed out education reform would have such a problem with the teaching unions.
    You need to understand the reason behind that.

    Reform => new syllabus => new teaching plans => extra (unpaid) work outside school

    Would you willingly do x00 hours work for free because management decided you are now a road engineer rather than railways
    The attack on the unions is just a distraction technique by people who can't admit that the real problem facing education is underfunding. My son's school is running out of teachers, it's got fuck all to do with the unions and everything to do with funding. Meanwhile, most of the people telling us that state schools don't need more money send their kids private where the funding is double. The hypocrisy is sickening.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002
    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Elon Musk on the BBC:

    "Kudos to the BBC for self-labelling its state affiliation"

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1614851530016067586

    Maybe I'm an idiot, and I know lots of people think this was an incredible clever and insightful comment... But what exactly is he talking about?
    I've zero idea. My assumption is that the BBC has published something, or is about to publish something, that has annoyed the world's richest man-child.
    It published a Musk lost $200bn in wealth story on Friday I think
    Given that Tesla's stock is down 65-70% from its peaks, and that Twitter has not exactly been a runaway success, that seems fairly uncontroversial.

    That said... SpaceX is currently knocking it out of the park.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,769
    NEW: There are growing indications that the EU and UK could, later today, set out an agreed framework on resolving the most contentious issues around the Northern Ireland Protocol.


    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1614865182508859392
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 6,953
    The Times reporting that Harper will offer rail unions an improved offer.

    If this is true, the Government must be insane.

    The public don't support the rail strikes and the last few months have demonstrated that the country can manage quite comfortably despite rail strikes.

    And if they give more money to the rail unions it's certain they will have to give more to everyone else.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,818
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Elon Musk on the BBC:

    "Kudos to the BBC for self-labelling its state affiliation"

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1614851530016067586

    Maybe I'm an idiot, and I know lots of people think this was an incredible clever and insightful comment... But what exactly is he talking about?
    I've zero idea. My assumption is that the BBC has published something, or is about to publish something, that has annoyed the world's richest man-child.
    It published a Musk lost $200bn in wealth story on Friday I think
    Given that Tesla's stock is down 65-70% from its peaks, and that Twitter has not exactly been a runaway success, that seems fairly uncontroversial.

    That said... SpaceX is currently knocking it out of the park.
    One part of SpaceX is - the Falcon 9 / Falcon Heavy part.

    We've no idea about Starlink's profitability: optimists say it's already wildly profitable; pessimists that it is losing a fortune.

    But then there's the (literal) big one: Starship. They're spending billions on this down in Texas, and they haven't got it into orbit yet. Given the rate at which they're frying Raptors, I have my doubts about this first upcoming launch.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    MikeL said:

    The Times reporting that Harper will offer rail unions an improved offer.

    If this is true, the Government must be insane.

    TBF I’ve been suspecting that for a while already. It’s just one more piece of evidence.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Elon Musk on the BBC:

    "Kudos to the BBC for self-labelling its state affiliation"

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1614851530016067586

    Maybe I'm an idiot, and I know lots of people think this was an incredible clever and insightful comment... But what exactly is he talking about?
    I've zero idea. My assumption is that the BBC has published something, or is about to publish something, that has annoyed the world's richest man-child.
    It published a Musk lost $200bn in wealth story on Friday I think
    Given that Tesla's stock is down 65-70% from its peaks, and that Twitter has not exactly been a runaway success, that seems fairly uncontroversial.

    That said... SpaceX is currently knocking it out of the park.
    One part of SpaceX is - the Falcon 9 / Falcon Heavy part.

    We've no idea about Starlink's profitability: optimists say it's already wildly profitable; pessimists that it is losing a fortune.

    But then there's the (literal) big one: Starship. They're spending billions on this down in Texas, and they haven't got it into orbit yet. Given the rate at which they're frying Raptors, I have my doubts about this first upcoming launch.
    SpaceX could be enormously profitable if it just did Falcon 9.

    Starlink is, I suspect, unprofitable and likely to remain so for some time. But, there is a reasonable chance it can be profitable in the long run.

    Starship. Well, we'll see. But if it works, it could revolutionize space travel.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Elon Musk on the BBC:

    "Kudos to the BBC for self-labelling its state affiliation"

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1614851530016067586

    Maybe I'm an idiot, and I know lots of people think this was an incredible clever and insightful comment... But what exactly is he talking about?
    I've zero idea. My assumption is that the BBC has published something, or is about to publish something, that has annoyed the world's richest man-child.
    It published a Musk lost $200bn in wealth story on Friday I think
    Given that Tesla's stock is down 65-70% from its peaks, and that Twitter has not exactly been a runaway success, that seems fairly uncontroversial.

    That said... SpaceX is currently knocking it out of the park.
    One part of SpaceX is - the Falcon 9 / Falcon Heavy part.

    We've no idea about Starlink's profitability: optimists say it's already wildly profitable; pessimists that it is losing a fortune.

    But then there's the (literal) big one: Starship. They're spending billions on this down in Texas, and they haven't got it into orbit yet. Given the rate at which they're frying Raptors, I have my doubts about this first upcoming launch.
    Doesn't Starlink's profitability depend to a fair extent on the success of Starship ? Which would greatly reduce the cost of regularly launching large numbers if small sats.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,949
    Michael Heseltine interviewed by Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart for The Rest is Politics on various podcast sites or
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZknO_w0LmM
This discussion has been closed.