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Tories, huh, yeah, what are they good for? Absolutely nothing, uhh – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited January 22 in General
Tories, huh, yeah, what are they good for? Absolutely nothing, uhh – politicalbetting.com

Quite some word cloud, from @GoodwinMJ's poll question, what have the Conservatives got right since coming to power? Safe to say voters are grumpy right now. pic.twitter.com/yGui2lHcY6

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Comments

  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,370
    Or even worse than that! First?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,949
    Keir Starmer wants the NHS to directly employ GPs, and end their gatekeeper role by allowing patients to refer themselves (at least to physiotherapists). Labour would also (as already announced) double the number of new nurses and doctors qualifying each year.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64279654
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,949
    Winter comes back this week, with sub-zero temperatures even in the south, and snow and ice forecast. Heat or eat questions will return for some. Can the government derive any credit from its energy bill subsidies?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,949

    Keir Starmer wants the NHS to directly employ GPs, and end their gatekeeper role by allowing patients to refer themselves (at least to physiotherapists). Labour would also (as already announced) double the number of new nurses and doctors qualifying each year.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64279654

    Unfinished business from Tony Blair and his management consultants?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,949
    ‘A dire situation’: Red Wall Tory voters furious over NHS collapse
    Focus group finds first-time Tory supporters have sympathy for struggling health service staff and little faith in Rishi Sunak

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/14/dire-situation-red-wall-tory-voters-furious-nhs-collapse/ (£££)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,869
    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: well, Lorient did fail to win, which is a shame, but Manchester United did, which is nice. Green for the last set of bets, probably still just in the red overall this year (haven't updated my records yet).

    Politics: Conservatives are in a rough spot, partly of their own making (the prior two PMs) and partly due to strategic reasons. Easy Labour win next time round, but what they actually do when they inherit problems that can't be fixed by an abundance of straightforward spending due to an economy in fantastic shape will make it trickier to govern than campaign.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Football: well, Lorient did fail to win, which is a shame, but Manchester United did, which is nice. Green for the last set of bets, probably still just in the red overall this year (haven't updated my records yet).

    Politics: Conservatives are in a rough spot, partly of their own making (the prior two PMs) and partly due to strategic reasons. Easy Labour win next time round, but what they actually do when they inherit problems that can't be fixed by an abundance of straightforward spending due to an economy in fantastic shape will make it trickier to govern than campaign.

    Good grief, Morris. Don't tell me there are two Orient supporters on here?

    Mind you, things are looking up and we're no longer a Protected Species. Sell out at Brisbane Road again yesterday.

    Shame about the game.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,792
    Shout out to "fuck all" in the word cloud. LOL. #brokenbritain
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,324

    Keir Starmer wants the NHS to directly employ GPs, and end their gatekeeper role by allowing patients to refer themselves (at least to physiotherapists). Labour would also (as already announced) double the number of new nurses and doctors qualifying each year.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64279654

    This is the kind of ‘seal the deal’ package that Labour need. And a good move to give it its debut during the heart of a winter NHS crisis.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,506
    Morning all!

    Fpt:
    WillG said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Oh look, the Murdoch press out to stop Boris coming back any way they can again.

    Rattled.
    I think that's a newsworthy story, don't you?
    It's positively Trumpian how some Boris fans interpret any news of his misdeeds as an establishment plot. Not to mention the fact that the collapse in Tory ratings happened under Boris and Truss.
    I am not even a Boris supporter, though I've said he would be marginally better than the current ongoing disaster. I just know a smear campaign when I see one.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,324

    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: well, Lorient did fail to win, which is a shame, but Manchester United did, which is nice. Green for the last set of bets, probably still just in the red overall this year (haven't updated my records yet).

    Politics: Conservatives are in a rough spot, partly of their own making (the prior two PMs) and partly due to strategic reasons. Easy Labour win next time round, but what they actually do when they inherit problems that can't be fixed by an abundance of straightforward spending due to an economy in fantastic shape will make it trickier to govern than campaign.

    Good grief, Morris. Don't tell me there are two Orient supporters on here?

    Mind you, things are looking up and we're no longer a Protected Species. Sell out at Brisbane Road again yesterday.

    Shame about the game.
    Never felt the same about them since they changed their name. I used to love having a football league team simply called Orient.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 11,448
    edited January 15
    Nice fun piece, TSE, but it is worth taking the question seriously for a moment.

    I see 'Covid' and the rollout get a positive mention. Well, Covid generally was a bit of mixed bag but the main kudos went to Kate Bingham and the vaccine rollout. Whether or not you can claim that as a Gov success is debateable but let's give it a pass.

    Furlough too was right in principle, even if the detail wasn't that great.

    Keeping Labour out would also be a good one for anybody to the right of the Ken Clarke. Not being Jeremy Corbyn would be particularly meritorious.

    Brexit, of course, if you think it was a great idea.

    Beyond that I'm struggling unless you want to go back to Cameron/Osborne and things like austerity and the introduction of gay marriage. The latter was an overdue but unequivocal success.

    It's not great for 12 years, especially as the shittier stuff is the more recent and therefore the more memorable and relevant to electoral prospects.

    As expected, Labour's lead is flattening out around 20 points. It's not scaremongering, or wishful thinking, to suggest that at the GE it is as likely as not to be worse than that for the Government.

    What price the SNP as the Official Opposition?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,932
    “Nothing” is a direct result of Sunak’s lack of political experience.

    His political message is that he is there to fix problems. It’s all he talks about. As such it’s hardly surprising that there is a consensus that he has inherited nothing but problems. He wanted to contrast himself with Truss and Johnson.

    Whilst it’s true that he’s inherited an ungodly mess of the Tories making, a more experienced politician would have a balanced the message with a positive project building on a past success. Tough to do given the raw material, but he has created a rod for his own back.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,743
    A charity bankrolled by Michelle Mone’s husband made undeclared donations to a think tank run by former Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith.

    Doug Barrowman is banned from giving money directly to the Conservatives because of where he lives – but it recently emerged that a company linked to him handed over £170,000 to the party.

    Now we can reveal his charity, the Barrowman Foundation, has also donated nearly £500,000 to the Centre for Social Justice, which has boasted of its access to “the corridors of power”.

    He has also been charged with corporate tax evasion in Spain, where he could face jail if found guilty.

    Between 2017 and 2021, it made donations of £1.97 million but its accounts didn’t show where the cash was going. Government rules state charities must publish details of where money has come from and how it is spent.

    The books for 2019 and 2020 both claim only that the single “main pledge” was to the Prince’s Trust – set up by King Charles when he was the Prince of Wales.

    The Foundation’s three trustees are Barrowman, Baroness Mone and Arthur Lancaster, who is a former business associate of Prince Andrew and a director of Lancaster Knox LLP.


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/michelle-mones-husband-row-over-28956861

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,769

    Keir Starmer wants the NHS to directly employ GPs, and end their gatekeeper role by allowing patients to refer themselves (at least to physiotherapists). Labour would also (as already announced) double the number of new nurses and doctors qualifying each year.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64279654

    Unfinished business from Tony Blair and his management consultants?
    Aneurin Bevan waves

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/stuffing-their-mouths-with-gold/zvw68xs
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,792
    Jonathan said:

    “Nothing” is a direct result of Sunak’s lack of political experience.

    His political message is that he is there to fix problems. It’s all he talks about. As such it’s hardly surprising that there is a consensus that he has inherited nothing but problems. He wanted to contrast himself with Truss and Johnson.

    Whilst it’s true that he’s inherited an ungodly mess of the Tories making, a more experienced politician would have a balanced the message with a positive project building on a past success. Tough to do given the raw material, but he has created a rod for his own back.

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,825

    Keir Starmer wants the NHS to directly employ GPs, and end their gatekeeper role by allowing patients to refer themselves (at least to physiotherapists). Labour would also (as already announced) double the number of new nurses and doctors qualifying each year.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64279654

    At the moment the Government is refusing the new 3 counties medical school permission to train UK students.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/jan/14/ministers-refuse-fund-medical-school-uk-doctor-shortage
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,825
    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    “Nothing” is a direct result of Sunak’s lack of political experience.

    His political message is that he is there to fix problems. It’s all he talks about. As such it’s hardly surprising that there is a consensus that he has inherited nothing but problems. He wanted to contrast himself with Truss and Johnson.

    Whilst it’s true that he’s inherited an ungodly mess of the Tories making, a more experienced politician would have a balanced the message with a positive project building on a past success. Tough to do given the raw material, but he has created a rod for his own back.

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.
    This was a typical Sunak interview. Whatever your feelings on a further Sindyref, there needs to be an answer to the question asked:

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1614190496775012352?t=s4tfIFxmOyaLzWIeXz_gzg&s=19
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,743
    edited January 15
    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    “Nothing” is a direct result of Sunak’s lack of political experience.

    His political message is that he is there to fix problems. It’s all he talks about. As such it’s hardly surprising that there is a consensus that he has inherited nothing but problems. He wanted to contrast himself with Truss and Johnson.

    Whilst it’s true that he’s inherited an ungodly mess of the Tories making, a more experienced politician would have a balanced the message with a positive project building on a past success. Tough to do given the raw material, but he has created a rod for his own back.

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.
    He performed dreadfully on his brief first visit to Scotland this week. He hasn’t the faintest idea what he’s doing.

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1614190496775012352?s=46&t=C4zYaZLgIvXtpNX6w60Bbw
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,769
    Rishi Sunak has played down talk of a deal with Boris Johnson to find him a new safe seat for the 2024 general election, insisting the former Prime Minister has confirmed he will stand in Uxbridge.

    The PM’s comments came after allies of Mr Johnson reportedly claimed he would agree not to challenge Mr Sunak’s leadership in return for a safer Tory stronghold.


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-uxbridge-constituency-stand-mp-next-general-election-rishi-sunak-b1052832.html
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,743
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    “Nothing” is a direct result of Sunak’s lack of political experience.

    His political message is that he is there to fix problems. It’s all he talks about. As such it’s hardly surprising that there is a consensus that he has inherited nothing but problems. He wanted to contrast himself with Truss and Johnson.

    Whilst it’s true that he’s inherited an ungodly mess of the Tories making, a more experienced politician would have a balanced the message with a positive project building on a past success. Tough to do given the raw material, but he has created a rod for his own back.

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.
    This was a typical Sunak interview. Whatever your feelings on a further Sindyref, there needs to be an answer to the question asked:

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1614190496775012352?t=s4tfIFxmOyaLzWIeXz_gzg&s=19
    Great minds…
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,743
    Michelle Mone's husband accused of £5.5m Spain tax swindle

    Tory peer Michelle Mone’s billionaire husband took part in a scheme to suck millions out of a company in a massive corporate tax fraud, prosecutors allege.

    The Record has seen a copy of the four-page indictment against Doug Barrowman and six other British businessmen due to stand trial in Spain next May for corporate tax evasion and misappropriation.

    We told how he faces up to five-and-a-half years in jail if convicted on two charges.


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/michelle-mones-husband-bogus-55-28951207?int_source=nba
  • Rishi Sunak has played down talk of a deal with Boris Johnson to find him a new safe seat for the 2024 general election, insisting the former Prime Minister has confirmed he will stand in Uxbridge.

    The PM’s comments came after allies of Mr Johnson reportedly claimed he would agree not to challenge Mr Sunak’s leadership in return for a safer Tory stronghold.


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-uxbridge-constituency-stand-mp-next-general-election-rishi-sunak-b1052832.html

    Quite right too. If nothing else, if Uxbridge falls, the Conservatives are likely to be fairly solidly in opposition.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,743
    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.

    BoZo not fucking awkward? He hid in a fridge to avoid answering questions. He ran away from Andrew Neil. He is brilliant as long as he doesn't have to speak to any journalists...
    That requires a neck of brass. There is zero evidence that wee Rishi is in possession of one of those.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,743

    Rishi Sunak has played down talk of a deal with Boris Johnson to find him a new safe seat for the 2024 general election, insisting the former Prime Minister has confirmed he will stand in Uxbridge.

    The PM’s comments came after allies of Mr Johnson reportedly claimed he would agree not to challenge Mr Sunak’s leadership in return for a safer Tory stronghold.


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-uxbridge-constituency-stand-mp-next-general-election-rishi-sunak-b1052832.html


  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 4,052
    Yep.

    And "grumpy" is to put it mildly. I've never known such anger.

    They're in for a shellacking.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.

    BoZo not fucking awkward? He hid in a fridge to avoid answering questions. He ran away from Andrew Neil. He is brilliant as long as he doesn't have to speak to any journalists...
    There was also this doozy from the 2019 campaign. The URL says it all, really.

    https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2019-12-09/boris-johnson-takes-itv-reporter-s-phone-after-refusing-to-look-at-photo-of-boy-on-hospital-floor

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,682
    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Intransigence by the government has not weakened the resolve of aggrieved workers; it has increased their determination to express their anger about their pay and conditions.

    Ministers also misread the temper of the country. Public opinion has not been shifting in the direction the government anticipated. The Opinium poll we publish today indicates that support for NHS staff...remains high. When asked what they think overall about the public sector strikes, those voters who hold the government responsible outnumber those who blame the unions. Ministers are losing the competition to look like the “reasonable” side of the argument.

    Ministers would probably do a deal with the RCN tomorrow were it not for the fear in the Treasury and Number 10 that this would embolden other workers in the health service and elsewhere in the public sector to press their claims harder and for longer.

    There have been some indications over the past few days that the government is beginning to recalibrate its approach. Suggestions of how pay offers might be enhanced have begun to float out of departments.

    Yet the government is still sending mixed messages... In the same week that the government invited unions to talks, it infuriated them by launching anti-strike legislation. This will be debated in the Commons on Monday. Expect turbulent scenes. Given the resistance this legislation will face in the House of Lords and the challenges that will be mounted in the courts, its only impact on the present wave of strikes will be to inject further poison into relations between the government and its employees.

    The macho strategy has failed the prime minister. Sooner or later, the government will have to cut some deals. For the country’s sake and his own, Mr Sunak would be best advised to do it sooner rather than later.


  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 11,448
    edited January 15

    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: well, Lorient did fail to win, which is a shame, but Manchester United did, which is nice. Green for the last set of bets, probably still just in the red overall this year (haven't updated my records yet).

    Politics: Conservatives are in a rough spot, partly of their own making (the prior two PMs) and partly due to strategic reasons. Easy Labour win next time round, but what they actually do when they inherit problems that can't be fixed by an abundance of straightforward spending due to an economy in fantastic shape will make it trickier to govern than campaign.

    Good grief, Morris. Don't tell me there are two Orient supporters on here?

    Mind you, things are looking up and we're no longer a Protected Species. Sell out at Brisbane Road again yesterday.

    Shame about the game.
    Never felt the same about them since they changed their name. I used to love having a football league team simply called Orient.
    They were originally Clapton Orient, based at Millfields near the River Lea and named after the Orient Tea Company. They played to huge crowds at the vast Clapton Stadium for many years in the old Division Three South, but the owners of the ground wanted to use it exclusively for Greyhound Racing and the O's had to decamp north to Leyton and their current home at Brisbane Road. The crowds didn't follow them though and they hemorraged support to West Ham, Tottenham and Arsenal. It's been tough being a fan ever since, with only the occasional bright spot (promotion to the old Div 1 in 1962/63) to cheer.

    The name changed to Orient as a result of a spat between chairman Brian Winstone and the local Council and stayed that way for many years after he left. Can't remember when it went back to Leyton Orient but I prefer it. The ground is, after all, in Leyton.

    Recent years have been a real roller coaster. They were pretty successful under the excellent stewardship of Barry Hearn and got within one penalty kick of the Championship. He then sold out - a decision he now regrets - and the club was taken over by a bunch of crooks (literally). Results deteriorated sharply; they dropped out of the football league and almost out of existence completely. They are now in the hands of a small group of wealthy supporters and are prospering again under the management of Richie Wellens. They look certain for promotion back to Div 1, which is probably where they belong.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 4,052

    Keir Starmer wants the NHS to directly employ GPs, and end their gatekeeper role by allowing patients to refer themselves (at least to physiotherapists). Labour would also (as already announced) double the number of new nurses and doctors qualifying each year.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64279654

    Keir Starmer is evidently now the Prime Minister in waiting.

    This is really reminding me of the last two years of John Major's Government, when people paid less and less attention to the Conservatives and more and more to the positive policies of the incoming Government.

    I know people will talk about taking nothing for granted but the writing's on the wall.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,743
    Scottish secretary Alister Jack given £2million covid loan from UK government

    Our revelations come after the UK Government won the right in court earlier this month to keep the names of companies that received more than £47billion in Covid loans secret.

    Companies House records show One Rebel has failed to meet its legal obligation to file accounts by December 28.

    Failure to file accounts is a criminal offence and can lead to fines and action against directors.


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/massive-covid-loan-paid-out-28956721
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,869
    Mr. Punter, nope, Lorient, who lost to Montpellier in Ligue 1.
  • Mr. Punter, nope, Lorient, who lost to Montpellier in Ligue 1.

    Ah, the other Orient! Apologies. Genuine error, but gave me a chance to spout on about the team I supported from boyhood.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,769
    On topic, I wonder what the word cloud would look like if they combined/deduplicated:

    Vaccine
    Vaccines
    Vaccine rollout
    COVID vaccine
    COVID vaccines
    COVID vaccination
    COVID vaccinations
    COVID vaccination program

    Which are all listed separately?

    (Similarly “f*ck all”, “nothing at all” and “absolutely nothing” could reasonably be combined with “Nothing”)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,836
    edited January 15

    Mr. Punter, nope, Lorient, who lost to Montpellier in Ligue 1.

    Ah, the other Orient! Apologies. Genuine error, but gave me a chance to spout on about the team I supported from boyhood.
    Rather interesting bit of social history, so please don't apologise. Recently I went with my London friend to see the remains of the dockyard and the arsenal at Woolwich. Rather intrigued to find the pub we were lunching in was converted from the very workshop at the arsenal whose employees had clubbed together to start a football team called Woolwich Arsenal (no longer in the area either, I understand).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,825

    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: well, Lorient did fail to win, which is a shame, but Manchester United did, which is nice. Green for the last set of bets, probably still just in the red overall this year (haven't updated my records yet).

    Politics: Conservatives are in a rough spot, partly of their own making (the prior two PMs) and partly due to strategic reasons. Easy Labour win next time round, but what they actually do when they inherit problems that can't be fixed by an abundance of straightforward spending due to an economy in fantastic shape will make it trickier to govern than campaign.

    Good grief, Morris. Don't tell me there are two Orient supporters on here?

    Mind you, things are looking up and we're no longer a Protected Species. Sell out at Brisbane Road again yesterday.

    Shame about the game.
    Never felt the same about them since they changed their name. I used to love having a football league team simply called Orient.
    They were originally Clapton Orient, based at Millfields near the River Lea and named after the Orient Tea Company. They played to huge crowds at the vast Clapton Stadium for many years in the old Division Three South, but the owners of the ground wanted to use it exclusively for Greyhound Racing and the O's had to decamp north to Leyton and their current home at Brisbane Road. The crowds didn't follow them though and they hemorraged support to West Ham, Tottenham and Arsenal. It's been tough being a fan ever since, with only the occasional bright spot (promotion to the old Div 1 in 1962/63) to cheer.

    The name changed to Orient as a result of a spat between chairman Brian Winstone and the local Council and stayed that way for many years after he left. Can't remember when it went back to Leyton Orient but I prefer it. The ground is, after all, in Leyton.

    Recent years have been a real roller coaster. They were pretty successful under the excellent stewardship of Barry Hearn and got within one penalty kick of the Championship. He then sold out - a decision he now regrets - and the club was taken over by a bunch of crooks (literally). Results deteriorated sharply; they dropped out of the football league and almost out of existence completely. They are now in the hands of a small group of wealthy supporters and are prospering again under the management of Richie Wellens. They look certain for promotion back to Div 1, which is probably where they belong.
    Richie Wellens was a decent midfielder with Leicester a decade and a bit back. I hope he does well for the "O's".
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,769
    Spiegel writes that Olaf Scholz told SPD MPs on Friday that he was recently stopped by a Polish man for a talk while he was out jogging.

    He claimed the Pole had told him:

    “thank you for not allowing the Polish government drive you crazy regarding the Leopard 2 tanks”


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1614250538698170368

    Yeah, I expect he regularly encounters folks who agree with his position while out jogging…
  • Carnyx said:

    Mr. Punter, nope, Lorient, who lost to Montpellier in Ligue 1.

    Ah, the other Orient! Apologies. Genuine error, but gave me a chance to spout on about the team I supported from boyhood.
    Rather interesting bit of social history, so please don't apologise. Recently I went with my London friend to see the remains of the dockyard and the arsenal at Woolwich. Rather intrigued to find the pub we were lunching in was converted from the very workshop at the arsenal whose employees had clubbed together to start a football team called Woolwich Arsenal (no longer in the area either, I understand).
    Yes, I think it was the connection with the Army that helped make 'The Gunners' so popular.

    In my family, if you weren't an Orient supporter, the Arsenal was an acceptable alternative. Tottenham was not. West Ham was ok, but it was geographically some distance from the part of Hackney from which my tribe originated.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,324

    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: well, Lorient did fail to win, which is a shame, but Manchester United did, which is nice. Green for the last set of bets, probably still just in the red overall this year (haven't updated my records yet).

    Politics: Conservatives are in a rough spot, partly of their own making (the prior two PMs) and partly due to strategic reasons. Easy Labour win next time round, but what they actually do when they inherit problems that can't be fixed by an abundance of straightforward spending due to an economy in fantastic shape will make it trickier to govern than campaign.

    Good grief, Morris. Don't tell me there are two Orient supporters on here?

    Mind you, things are looking up and we're no longer a Protected Species. Sell out at Brisbane Road again yesterday.

    Shame about the game.
    Never felt the same about them since they changed their name. I used to love having a football league team simply called Orient.
    They were originally Clapton Orient, based at Millfields near the River Lea and named after the Orient Tea Company. They played to huge crowds at the vast Clapton Stadium for many years in the old Division Three South, but the owners of the ground wanted to use it exclusively for Greyhound Racing and the O's had to decamp north to Leyton and their current home at Brisbane Road. The crowds didn't follow them though and they hemorraged support to West Ham, Tottenham and Arsenal. It's been tough being a fan ever since, with only the occasional bright spot (promotion to the old Div 1 in 1962/63) to cheer.

    The name changed to Orient as a result of a spat between chairman Brian Winstone and the local Council and stayed that way for many years after he left. Can't remember when it went back to Leyton Orient but I prefer it. The ground is, after all, in Leyton.

    Recent years have been a real roller coaster. They were pretty successful under the excellent stewardship of Barry Hearn and got within one penalty kick of the Championship. He then sold out - a decision he now regrets - and the club was taken over by a bunch of crooks (literally). Results deteriorated sharply; they dropped out of the football league and almost out of existence completely. They are now in the hands of a small group of wealthy supporters and are prospering again under the management of Richie Wellens. They look certain for promotion back to Div 1, which is probably where they belong.
    Wasn't aware they'd been called Clapton Orient. That does rather sound like a gonorrhea variant!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,825
    edited January 15
    Heathener said:

    Keir Starmer wants the NHS to directly employ GPs, and end their gatekeeper role by allowing patients to refer themselves (at least to physiotherapists). Labour would also (as already announced) double the number of new nurses and doctors qualifying each year.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64279654

    Keir Starmer is evidently now the Prime Minister in waiting.

    This is really reminding me of the last two years of John Major's Government, when people paid less and less attention to the Conservatives and more and more to the positive policies of the incoming Government.

    I know people will talk about taking nothing for granted but the writing's on the wall.
    I hope his plans are better thought through than those random bits in the Telegraph Op Ed. Interesting to see him park his tanks on such a true blue lawn.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 8,689
    edited January 15
    Heathener said:

    Yep.

    And "grumpy" is to put it mildly. I've never known such anger.

    They're in for a shellacking.

    Worse than 1997? That's fighting talk, to be sure, but you may be right. My recollection of those days was that, for all people hated the Conservatives, there was still some residual sympathy for Major. I don't get that vibe this time.

    Challenge: fill in the gap in the sentence "This government has to go, but X is alright." I'm finding myself landing on Gove, which ought to be unthinkable.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Football: well, Lorient did fail to win, which is a shame, but Manchester United did, which is nice. Green for the last set of bets, probably still just in the red overall this year (haven't updated my records yet).

    Politics: Conservatives are in a rough spot, partly of their own making (the prior two PMs) and partly due to strategic reasons. Easy Labour win next time round, but what they actually do when they inherit problems that can't be fixed by an abundance of straightforward spending due to an economy in fantastic shape will make it trickier to govern than campaign.

    Good grief, Morris. Don't tell me there are two Orient supporters on here?

    Mind you, things are looking up and we're no longer a Protected Species. Sell out at Brisbane Road again yesterday.

    Shame about the game.
    Never felt the same about them since they changed their name. I used to love having a football league team simply called Orient.
    They were originally Clapton Orient, based at Millfields near the River Lea and named after the Orient Tea Company. They played to huge crowds at the vast Clapton Stadium for many years in the old Division Three South, but the owners of the ground wanted to use it exclusively for Greyhound Racing and the O's had to decamp north to Leyton and their current home at Brisbane Road. The crowds didn't follow them though and they hemorraged support to West Ham, Tottenham and Arsenal. It's been tough being a fan ever since, with only the occasional bright spot (promotion to the old Div 1 in 1962/63) to cheer.

    The name changed to Orient as a result of a spat between chairman Brian Winstone and the local Council and stayed that way for many years after he left. Can't remember when it went back to Leyton Orient but I prefer it. The ground is, after all, in Leyton.

    Recent years have been a real roller coaster. They were pretty successful under the excellent stewardship of Barry Hearn and got within one penalty kick of the Championship. He then sold out - a decision he now regrets - and the club was taken over by a bunch of crooks (literally). Results deteriorated sharply; they dropped out of the football league and almost out of existence completely. They are now in the hands of a small group of wealthy supporters and are prospering again under the management of Richie Wellens. They look certain for promotion back to Div 1, which is probably where they belong.
    Wasn't aware they'd been called Clapton Orient. That does rather sound like a gonorrhea variant!
    Presumably caught in Thailand.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,825

    Heathener said:

    Yep.

    And "grumpy" is to put it mildly. I've never known such anger.

    They're in for a shellacking.

    Worse than 1997? That's fighting talk, to be sure, but you may be right. My recollection of those days was that, for all people hated the Conservatives, there was still some residual sympathy for Major. I don't get that vibe this time.

    Challenge: fill.in the gap in the sentence "This government has to go, but X is alright." I'm finding myself landing on Gove, which ought to be unthinkable.
    When a rather marginalised Gove is the best of a bad bunch in Cabinet, the barrel is well and truly scraped bare.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
    Still some support from voters there for the Tories support for Ukraine, delivery of Brexit, Covid vaccines and support.

    Hopefully Sunak and Hunt are restoring their reputation for fiscal discipline too
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,324

    Heathener said:

    Yep.

    And "grumpy" is to put it mildly. I've never known such anger.

    They're in for a shellacking.

    Worse than 1997? That's fighting talk, to be sure, but you may be right. My recollection of those days was that, for all people hated the Conservatives, there was still some residual sympathy for Major. I don't get that vibe this time.

    Challenge: fill.in the gap in the sentence "This government has to go, but X is alright." I'm finding myself landing on Gove, which ought to be unthinkable.
    Not quite my memory of 1995-7. I think Major was widely ridiculed, and Blair was a much more commanding figure than Starmer. It's why I'm yet to be convinced that 2024 will be 1997 redux.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,825

    Spiegel writes that Olaf Scholz told SPD MPs on Friday that he was recently stopped by a Polish man for a talk while he was out jogging.

    He claimed the Pole had told him:

    “thank you for not allowing the Polish government drive you crazy regarding the Leopard 2 tanks”


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1614250538698170368

    Yeah, I expect he regularly encounters folks who agree with his position while out jogging…

    Yes it is odd. Usually it is an Albanian taxi driver.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
    Meanwhile Starmer says the NHS must reform or die

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64279654
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 11,036
    HYUFD said:

    Still some support from voters there for the Tories support for Ukraine, delivery of Brexit, Covid vaccines and support.

    Hopefully Sunak and Hunt are restoring their reputation for fiscal discipline too

    Yes absolutely. Voters also rate them for making the rich richer, lining their own pockets and lying, so they're winning on all the traditional Tory strengths.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
    edited January 15

    Heathener said:

    Yep.

    And "grumpy" is to put it mildly. I've never known such anger.

    They're in for a shellacking.

    Worse than 1997? That's fighting talk, to be sure, but you may be right. My recollection of those days was that, for all people hated the Conservatives, there was still some residual sympathy for Major. I don't get that vibe this time.

    Challenge: fill in the gap in the sentence "This government has to go, but X is alright." I'm finding myself landing on Gove, which ought to be unthinkable.
    Opinium yesterday gives Labour a majority closer to 2005 than 1997.

    Voters may not like Sunak much but he is still seen as more competent than Major 1997 was and Starmer lacks the charisma and appeal to Middle England Blair had in 1997, he is more John Smith
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,594
    edited January 15
    IanB2 said:

    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    Intransigence by the government has not weakened the resolve of aggrieved workers; it has increased their determination to express their anger about their pay and conditions.

    Ministers also misread the temper of the country. Public opinion has not been shifting in the direction the government anticipated. The Opinium poll we publish today indicates that support for NHS staff...remains high. When asked what they think overall about the public sector strikes, those voters who hold the government responsible outnumber those who blame the unions. Ministers are losing the competition to look like the “reasonable” side of the argument.

    Ministers would probably do a deal with the RCN tomorrow were it not for the fear in the Treasury and Number 10 that this would embolden other workers in the health service and elsewhere in the public sector to press their claims harder and for longer.

    There have been some indications over the past few days that the government is beginning to recalibrate its approach. Suggestions of how pay offers might be enhanced have begun to float out of departments.

    Yet the government is still sending mixed messages... In the same week that the government invited unions to talks, it infuriated them by launching anti-strike legislation. This will be debated in the Commons on Monday. Expect turbulent scenes. Given the resistance this legislation will face in the House of Lords and the challenges that will be mounted in the courts, its only impact on the present wave of strikes will be to inject further poison into relations between the government and its employees.

    The macho strategy has failed the prime minister. Sooner or later, the government will have to cut some deals. For the country’s sake and his own, Mr Sunak would be best advised to do it sooner rather than later.


    The govt desperately needs to do a deal with the health unions. Especially as said unions have indicated a willingness to make a deal/compromise. They need to pick their battles. Let the rail unions go swivel. The Yougov poll last month showed more people opposed the rail strikes than supported them.

    As Rawnsley says, they need to do it ASAP.

    You have to wonder who is advising the govt on this. In the U.K. the NHS is put on a pedestal and revered. Picking a fight with nurses is mad.

    The devolved Scottish and Welsh govt have been no better but, at least, in Scotland it looks like some progress is finally being made.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,308
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Yep.

    And "grumpy" is to put it mildly. I've never known such anger.

    They're in for a shellacking.

    Worse than 1997? That's fighting talk, to be sure, but you may be right. My recollection of those days was that, for all people hated the Conservatives, there was still some residual sympathy for Major. I don't get that vibe this time.

    Challenge: fill in the gap in the sentence "This government has to go, but X is alright." I'm finding myself landing on Gove, which ought to be unthinkable.
    Opinium yesterday gives Labour a majority closer to 2005 than 1997.

    Voters may not like Sunak much but he is still seen as more competent than Major 1997 was and Starmer lacks the charisma and appeal to Middle England Blair had, he is more John Smith
    John Smith was becoming ever more popular. Might have done better than Blair, although probably wouldn’t have had the tacit ‘deal’ with Ashdown.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,696
    HYUFD said:

    Still some support from voters there for the Tories support for Ukraine, delivery of Brexit, Covid vaccines and support.

    Hopefully Sunak and Hunt are restoring their reputation for fiscal discipline too

    You are the biggest flip-flopper on earth. 12 months ago you were telling us fiscal discipline didn't matter anymore.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,594

    Heathener said:

    Yep.

    And "grumpy" is to put it mildly. I've never known such anger.

    They're in for a shellacking.

    Worse than 1997? That's fighting talk, to be sure, but you may be right. My recollection of those days was that, for all people hated the Conservatives, there was still some residual sympathy for Major. I don't get that vibe this time.

    Challenge: fill in the gap in the sentence "This government has to go, but X is alright." I'm finding myself landing on Gove, which ought to be unthinkable.
    I don’t think the mood in the country is worse than 97. The main difference being the enthusiasm for Blair versus the lack of enthusiasm for Starmer.

    I do think Starmer would be a more principled PM than Blair and a labour govt under Starmer would be less self serving than new labour. He has a way to go to seal the deal.

    For me it is like 2010 with Brown.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,696
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Yep.

    And "grumpy" is to put it mildly. I've never known such anger.

    They're in for a shellacking.

    Worse than 1997? That's fighting talk, to be sure, but you may be right. My recollection of those days was that, for all people hated the Conservatives, there was still some residual sympathy for Major. I don't get that vibe this time.

    Challenge: fill in the gap in the sentence "This government has to go, but X is alright." I'm finding myself landing on Gove, which ought to be unthinkable.
    Opinium yesterday gives Labour a majority closer to 2005 than 1997.

    Voters may not like Sunak much but he is still seen as more competent than Major 1997 was and Starmer lacks the charisma and appeal to Middle England Blair had in 1997, he is more John Smith
    "Middle England" doesn't exist in the same way it did in 1997. No two elections are the same.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,604

    Carnyx said:

    Mr. Punter, nope, Lorient, who lost to Montpellier in Ligue 1.

    Ah, the other Orient! Apologies. Genuine error, but gave me a chance to spout on about the team I supported from boyhood.
    Rather interesting bit of social history, so please don't apologise. Recently I went with my London friend to see the remains of the dockyard and the arsenal at Woolwich. Rather intrigued to find the pub we were lunching in was converted from the very workshop at the arsenal whose employees had clubbed together to start a football team called Woolwich Arsenal (no longer in the area either, I understand).
    Yes, I think it was the connection with the Army that helped make 'The Gunners' so popular.

    In my family, if you weren't an Orient supporter, the Arsenal was an acceptable alternative. Tottenham was not. West Ham was ok, but it was geographically some distance from the part of Hackney from which my tribe originated.
    I should have been an Orient supporter based on the fact that like England Captains Beckham, Kane and Gooch I was born in Whipps Cross Hospital. Unfortunately Ipswich were a very good team in the 70s so I unadvisedly followed my mother’s family into that purgatory.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,260
    Starmers new wheeze. Self-referral to a consultant?

    The worried well, and the hypochondriacs will have a field day. Are Labour serious?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316

    A charity bankrolled by Michelle Mone’s husband made undeclared donations to a think tank run by former Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith.

    Doug Barrowman is banned from giving money directly to the Conservatives because of where he lives – but it recently emerged that a company linked to him handed over £170,000 to the party.

    Now we can reveal his charity, the Barrowman Foundation, has also donated nearly £500,000 to the Centre for Social Justice, which has boasted of its access to “the corridors of power”.

    He has also been charged with corporate tax evasion in Spain, where he could face jail if found guilty.

    Between 2017 and 2021, it made donations of £1.97 million but its accounts didn’t show where the cash was going. Government rules state charities must publish details of where money has come from and how it is spent.

    The books for 2019 and 2020 both claim only that the single “main pledge” was to the Prince’s Trust – set up by King Charles when he was the Prince of Wales.

    The Foundation’s three trustees are Barrowman, Baroness Mone and Arthur Lancaster, who is a former business associate of Prince Andrew and a director of Lancaster Knox LLP.


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/michelle-mones-husband-row-over-28956861

    Having criticised your earlier content free posts on the subject, I have to applaud your returning to it with some meat.

    Though no doubt there’s the odd poster who’ll call it a smear campaign. :smile:
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 38,072
    Jonathan said:

    “Nothing” is a direct result of Sunak’s lack of political experience.

    His political message is that he is there to fix problems. It’s all he talks about. As such it’s hardly surprising that there is a consensus that he has inherited nothing but problems. He wanted to contrast himself with Truss and Johnson.

    Whilst it’s true that he’s inherited an ungodly mess of the Tories making, a more experienced politician would have a balanced the message with a positive project building on a past success. Tough to do given the raw material, but he has created a rod for his own back.

    He was also Number 2 in the numpty government that caused all the problems in the first place, what chance he will fix any of them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,836
    edited January 15

    Scottish secretary Alister Jack given £2million covid loan from UK government

    Our revelations come after the UK Government won the right in court earlier this month to keep the names of companies that received more than £47billion in Covid loans secret.

    Companies House records show One Rebel has failed to meet its legal obligation to file accounts by December 28.

    Failure to file accounts is a criminal offence and can lead to fines and action against directors.


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/massive-covid-loan-paid-out-28956721

    Headline there a tiny bit unfair - he has a 'share' in the company. OTOH he doesn't let on what *percentage* he has, acc to the report, so I suppose it's fair dos in view of his secretiveness.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,825
    CD13 said:

    Starmers new wheeze. Self-referral to a consultant?

    The worried well, and the hypochondriacs will have a field day. Are Labour serious?

    Well, it ain't going to do much for waiting lists!

    Not inappropriate for sporting injuries for physio perhaps.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 38,072
    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Yep.

    And "grumpy" is to put it mildly. I've never known such anger.

    They're in for a shellacking.

    Worse than 1997? That's fighting talk, to be sure, but you may be right. My recollection of those days was that, for all people hated the Conservatives, there was still some residual sympathy for Major. I don't get that vibe this time.

    Challenge: fill.in the gap in the sentence "This government has to go, but X is alright." I'm finding myself landing on Gove, which ought to be unthinkable.
    When a rather marginalised Gove is the best of a bad bunch in Cabinet, the barrel is well and truly scraped bare.
    Bottom out of it all together
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
    edited January 15

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Yep.

    And "grumpy" is to put it mildly. I've never known such anger.

    They're in for a shellacking.

    Worse than 1997? That's fighting talk, to be sure, but you may be right. My recollection of those days was that, for all people hated the Conservatives, there was still some residual sympathy for Major. I don't get that vibe this time.

    Challenge: fill in the gap in the sentence "This government has to go, but X is alright." I'm finding myself landing on Gove, which ought to be unthinkable.
    Opinium yesterday gives Labour a majority closer to 2005 than 1997.

    Voters may not like Sunak much but he is still seen as more competent than Major 1997 was and Starmer lacks the charisma and appeal to Middle England Blair had, he is more John Smith
    John Smith was becoming ever more popular. Might have done better than Blair, although probably wouldn’t have had the tacit ‘deal’ with Ashdown.
    Smith would have got a majority of about 100 in 1997, not the 179 majority Blair got in 1997
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Football: well, Lorient did fail to win, which is a shame, but Manchester United did, which is nice. Green for the last set of bets, probably still just in the red overall this year (haven't updated my records yet).

    Politics: Conservatives are in a rough spot, partly of their own making (the prior two PMs) and partly due to strategic reasons. Easy Labour win next time round, but what they actually do when they inherit problems that can't be fixed by an abundance of straightforward spending due to an economy in fantastic shape will make it trickier to govern than campaign.

    Good grief, Morris. Don't tell me there are two Orient supporters on here?

    Mind you, things are looking up and we're no longer a Protected Species. Sell out at Brisbane Road again yesterday.

    Shame about the game.
    I thought Orient got a rough deal when West Ham got their new stadium in "Orient territory".
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,544

    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: well, Lorient did fail to win, which is a shame, but Manchester United did, which is nice. Green for the last set of bets, probably still just in the red overall this year (haven't updated my records yet).

    Politics: Conservatives are in a rough spot, partly of their own making (the prior two PMs) and partly due to strategic reasons. Easy Labour win next time round, but what they actually do when they inherit problems that can't be fixed by an abundance of straightforward spending due to an economy in fantastic shape will make it trickier to govern than campaign.

    Good grief, Morris. Don't tell me there are two Orient supporters on here?

    Mind you, things are looking up and we're no longer a Protected Species. Sell out at Brisbane Road again yesterday.

    Shame about the game.
    I thought Orient got a rough deal when West Ham got their new stadium in "Orient territory".
    Thank God Spurs failed to get that stadium!

  • TresTres Posts: 1,536

    Heathener said:

    Yep.

    And "grumpy" is to put it mildly. I've never known such anger.

    They're in for a shellacking.

    Worse than 1997? That's fighting talk, to be sure, but you may be right. My recollection of those days was that, for all people hated the Conservatives, there was still some residual sympathy for Major. I don't get that vibe this time.

    Challenge: fill.in the gap in the sentence "This government has to go, but X is alright." I'm finding myself landing on Gove, which ought to be unthinkable.
    Not quite my memory of 1995-7. I think Major was widely ridiculed, and Blair was a much more commanding figure than Starmer. It's why I'm yet to be convinced that 2024 will be 1997 redux.
    it was time for a change but the likes of Portillo were still able to do walkabouts in public without attracting too much derision.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,308

    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: well, Lorient did fail to win, which is a shame, but Manchester United did, which is nice. Green for the last set of bets, probably still just in the red overall this year (haven't updated my records yet).

    Politics: Conservatives are in a rough spot, partly of their own making (the prior two PMs) and partly due to strategic reasons. Easy Labour win next time round, but what they actually do when they inherit problems that can't be fixed by an abundance of straightforward spending due to an economy in fantastic shape will make it trickier to govern than campaign.

    Good grief, Morris. Don't tell me there are two Orient supporters on here?

    Mind you, things are looking up and we're no longer a Protected Species. Sell out at Brisbane Road again yesterday.

    Shame about the game.
    I thought Orient got a rough deal when West Ham got their new stadium in "Orient territory".
    This little town is nearer Ipswich than Leyton but there are more Orient supporters than Tractor Boys ones.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 555
    CD13 said:

    Starmers new wheeze. Self-referral to a consultant?

    The worried well, and the hypochondriacs will have a field day. Are Labour serious?

    This feels to me like an idea that works in some other countries' healthcare systems (I think you can do this in Japan, for instance; the NHS system is definitely at the 'GP gatekeeper' end of the spectrum) but which you can't just import as a single change and expect it to work without all the other parts of its original system which support it (e.g. Wikipedia says that if you direct-refer yourself in Japan the hospital will usually charge more than if you were referred by a primary-care physician, which is a limiter that doesn't exist in a free-at-point-of-use system).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637

    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    “Nothing” is a direct result of Sunak’s lack of political experience.

    His political message is that he is there to fix problems. It’s all he talks about. As such it’s hardly surprising that there is a consensus that he has inherited nothing but problems. He wanted to contrast himself with Truss and Johnson.

    Whilst it’s true that he’s inherited an ungodly mess of the Tories making, a more experienced politician would have a balanced the message with a positive project building on a past success. Tough to do given the raw material, but he has created a rod for his own back.

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.
    He performed dreadfully on his brief first visit to Scotland this week. He hasn’t the faintest idea what he’s doing.

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1614190496775012352?s=46&t=C4zYaZLgIvXtpNX6w60Bbw
    Sunak should just say Shut up, Fuck off, You had a vote in 2014 - that’s it for 20 years

    Because that is the truth. And the truth has a virtue of its own
  • TresTres Posts: 1,536
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    “Nothing” is a direct result of Sunak’s lack of political experience.

    His political message is that he is there to fix problems. It’s all he talks about. As such it’s hardly surprising that there is a consensus that he has inherited nothing but problems. He wanted to contrast himself with Truss and Johnson.

    Whilst it’s true that he’s inherited an ungodly mess of the Tories making, a more experienced politician would have a balanced the message with a positive project building on a past success. Tough to do given the raw material, but he has created a rod for his own back.

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.
    He performed dreadfully on his brief first visit to Scotland this week. He hasn’t the faintest idea what he’s doing.

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1614190496775012352?s=46&t=C4zYaZLgIvXtpNX6w60Bbw
    Sunak should just say Shut up, Fuck off, You had a vote in 2014 - that’s it for 20 years

    Because that is the truth. And the truth has a virtue of its own
    'vote no to keep Scotland in the European Union'
  • TimSTimS Posts: 3,664
    pm215 said:

    CD13 said:

    Starmers new wheeze. Self-referral to a consultant?

    The worried well, and the hypochondriacs will have a field day. Are Labour serious?

    This feels to me like an idea that works in some other countries' healthcare systems (I think you can do this in Japan, for instance; the NHS system is definitely at the 'GP gatekeeper' end of the spectrum) but which you can't just import as a single change and expect it to work without all the other parts of its original system which support it (e.g. Wikipedia says that if you direct-refer yourself in Japan the hospital will usually charge more than if you were referred by a primary-care physician, which is a limiter that doesn't exist in a free-at-point-of-use system).
    This is the benefit of an opposition announcing policies well ahead of an election. Not only does it answer the accusation that they’re just bleating from the sidelines but it also gives time for the bad ideas (or the not fully formed ones like this) to be challenged and refined in the face of feedback. Better this than introducing disastrous changes.

    Self-referral works in a lot of PMI schemes. Our work one allows it for skin cancer checks and various things like osteopathy and physio. Presumably the hypochondriac issue could be managed by requiring a repeat referral to go through a GP.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,880
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    “Nothing” is a direct result of Sunak’s lack of political experience.

    His political message is that he is there to fix problems. It’s all he talks about. As such it’s hardly surprising that there is a consensus that he has inherited nothing but problems. He wanted to contrast himself with Truss and Johnson.

    Whilst it’s true that he’s inherited an ungodly mess of the Tories making, a more experienced politician would have a balanced the message with a positive project building on a past success. Tough to do given the raw material, but he has created a rod for his own back.

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.
    He performed dreadfully on his brief first visit to Scotland this week. He hasn’t the faintest idea what he’s doing.

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1614190496775012352?s=46&t=C4zYaZLgIvXtpNX6w60Bbw
    Sunak should just say Shut up, Fuck off, You had a vote in 2014 - that’s it for 20 years

    Because that is the truth. And the truth has a virtue of its own
    @Leon here is a credible calamity story that you seem to have missed, despite AI playing a small role in it as well.
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/1/13/2147015/-Somewhere-on-Thwaites-Glacier-is-a-fissure-so-deep-that-it-threatens-the-world-s-coastlines
    Basically the Thwaites glacier and sea ice sheet has been protected by large icebergs that had grounded on undersea mountains. They are now breaking free and when they do, within the next few years, the sea ice behind them will collapse driving sea levels up by 2 feet fairly quickly and ultimately by 10 feet once the Thwaites glacier collapses into the sea. A likely trigger point for this is the El Nino effect which starts this year.

    Its going to get a little damp in London and many other coastal cities.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 11,036
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    “Nothing” is a direct result of Sunak’s lack of political experience.

    His political message is that he is there to fix problems. It’s all he talks about. As such it’s hardly surprising that there is a consensus that he has inherited nothing but problems. He wanted to contrast himself with Truss and Johnson.

    Whilst it’s true that he’s inherited an ungodly mess of the Tories making, a more experienced politician would have a balanced the message with a positive project building on a past success. Tough to do given the raw material, but he has created a rod for his own back.

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.
    He performed dreadfully on his brief first visit to Scotland this week. He hasn’t the faintest idea what he’s doing.

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1614190496775012352?s=46&t=C4zYaZLgIvXtpNX6w60Bbw
    Sunak should just say Shut up, Fuck off, You had a vote in 2014 - that’s it for 20 years

    Because that is the truth. And the truth has a virtue of its own
    @Leon here is a credible calamity story that you seem to have missed, despite AI playing a small role in it as well.
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/1/13/2147015/-Somewhere-on-Thwaites-Glacier-is-a-fissure-so-deep-that-it-threatens-the-world-s-coastlines
    Basically the Thwaites glacier and sea ice sheet has been protected by large icebergs that had grounded on undersea mountains. They are now breaking free and when they do, within the next few years, the sea ice behind them will collapse driving sea levels up by 2 feet fairly quickly and ultimately by 10 feet once the Thwaites glacier collapses into the sea. A likely trigger point for this is the El Nino effect which starts this year.

    Its going to get a little damp in London and many other coastal cities.
    Bits of London, perhaps. I live near the top a hill so should be fine!
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 11,448
    edited January 15

    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: well, Lorient did fail to win, which is a shame, but Manchester United did, which is nice. Green for the last set of bets, probably still just in the red overall this year (haven't updated my records yet).

    Politics: Conservatives are in a rough spot, partly of their own making (the prior two PMs) and partly due to strategic reasons. Easy Labour win next time round, but what they actually do when they inherit problems that can't be fixed by an abundance of straightforward spending due to an economy in fantastic shape will make it trickier to govern than campaign.

    Good grief, Morris. Don't tell me there are two Orient supporters on here?

    Mind you, things are looking up and we're no longer a Protected Species. Sell out at Brisbane Road again yesterday.

    Shame about the game.
    I thought Orient got a rough deal when West Ham got their new stadium in "Orient territory".
    Thank God Spurs failed to get that stadium!

    I was outraged too at the time, but it may have been a blessing in disguise. Apparently as a football stadium West Ham's new gaff has all the atmosphere of a morgue. Brisbane Road may be small but works well for their current status. It would be a problem if they got as far as the Championship because the capacity is so low (about 10,000) but I gather that as far as finances are concerned crowd attendance is less important than TV and streaming income, where the O's do well.

    They really are a popular side well beyond the confines of Leyton.
  • ‘A dire situation’: Red Wall Tory voters furious over NHS collapse
    Focus group finds first-time Tory supporters have sympathy for struggling health service staff and little faith in Rishi Sunak

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/14/dire-situation-red-wall-tory-voters-furious-nhs-collapse/ (£££)

    Its a poor show really. Why don't these voters understand the terrible reality that all the current failings are the fault of the last Labour government?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 3,664

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    “Nothing” is a direct result of Sunak’s lack of political experience.

    His political message is that he is there to fix problems. It’s all he talks about. As such it’s hardly surprising that there is a consensus that he has inherited nothing but problems. He wanted to contrast himself with Truss and Johnson.

    Whilst it’s true that he’s inherited an ungodly mess of the Tories making, a more experienced politician would have a balanced the message with a positive project building on a past success. Tough to do given the raw material, but he has created a rod for his own back.

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.
    He performed dreadfully on his brief first visit to Scotland this week. He hasn’t the faintest idea what he’s doing.

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1614190496775012352?s=46&t=C4zYaZLgIvXtpNX6w60Bbw
    Sunak should just say Shut up, Fuck off, You had a vote in 2014 - that’s it for 20 years

    Because that is the truth. And the truth has a virtue of its own
    @Leon here is a credible calamity story that you seem to have missed, despite AI playing a small role in it as well.
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/1/13/2147015/-Somewhere-on-Thwaites-Glacier-is-a-fissure-so-deep-that-it-threatens-the-world-s-coastlines
    Basically the Thwaites glacier and sea ice sheet has been protected by large icebergs that had grounded on undersea mountains. They are now breaking free and when they do, within the next few years, the sea ice behind them will collapse driving sea levels up by 2 feet fairly quickly and ultimately by 10 feet once the Thwaites glacier collapses into the sea. A likely trigger point for this is the El Nino effect which starts this year.

    Its going to get a little damp in London and many other coastal cities.
    Bits of London, perhaps. I live near the top a hill so should be fine!
    Prime coastal real estate here.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,880

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    “Nothing” is a direct result of Sunak’s lack of political experience.

    His political message is that he is there to fix problems. It’s all he talks about. As such it’s hardly surprising that there is a consensus that he has inherited nothing but problems. He wanted to contrast himself with Truss and Johnson.

    Whilst it’s true that he’s inherited an ungodly mess of the Tories making, a more experienced politician would have a balanced the message with a positive project building on a past success. Tough to do given the raw material, but he has created a rod for his own back.

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.
    He performed dreadfully on his brief first visit to Scotland this week. He hasn’t the faintest idea what he’s doing.

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1614190496775012352?s=46&t=C4zYaZLgIvXtpNX6w60Bbw
    Sunak should just say Shut up, Fuck off, You had a vote in 2014 - that’s it for 20 years

    Because that is the truth. And the truth has a virtue of its own
    @Leon here is a credible calamity story that you seem to have missed, despite AI playing a small role in it as well.
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/1/13/2147015/-Somewhere-on-Thwaites-Glacier-is-a-fissure-so-deep-that-it-threatens-the-world-s-coastlines
    Basically the Thwaites glacier and sea ice sheet has been protected by large icebergs that had grounded on undersea mountains. They are now breaking free and when they do, within the next few years, the sea ice behind them will collapse driving sea levels up by 2 feet fairly quickly and ultimately by 10 feet once the Thwaites glacier collapses into the sea. A likely trigger point for this is the El Nino effect which starts this year.

    Its going to get a little damp in London and many other coastal cities.
    Bits of London, perhaps. I live near the top a hill so should be fine!
    I live in a village which has the word "hill" in the name so I will be too but you may find quite a lot of sodden Londoners wanting to share your space.
  • Good morning

    Listening to Starmer on the NHS he really does seem determined to reform it root and branch and take on the vested interests including the BMA

    I believe the NHS needs to lose its religious zeal and change and frankly Starmer is best placed to take this huge issue on as he will be, lest we forget, a Labour PM
  • MJWMJW Posts: 779

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.

    BoZo not fucking awkward? He hid in a fridge to avoid answering questions. He ran away from Andrew Neil. He is brilliant as long as he doesn't have to speak to any journalists...
    There was also this doozy from the 2019 campaign. The URL says it all, really.

    https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2019-12-09/boris-johnson-takes-itv-reporter-s-phone-after-refusing-to-look-at-photo-of-boy-on-hospital-floor

    Can't help but think in part Boris was helped by Corbyn as rather neutralised his weakness to scrutiny and detail. Boris chickening out of interviews or running from hacks would've been more leapt upon had Corbyn not had his own car crash moments that made headlines and were a gift to papers wanting to run those rather than a Boris fiasco.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 11,448
    edited January 15
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Yep.

    And "grumpy" is to put it mildly. I've never known such anger.

    They're in for a shellacking.

    Worse than 1997? That's fighting talk, to be sure, but you may be right. My recollection of those days was that, for all people hated the Conservatives, there was still some residual sympathy for Major. I don't get that vibe this time.

    Challenge: fill in the gap in the sentence "This government has to go, but X is alright." I'm finding myself landing on Gove, which ought to be unthinkable.
    Opinium yesterday gives Labour a majority closer to 2005 than 1997.

    Voters may not like Sunak much but he is still seen as more competent than Major 1997 was and Starmer lacks the charisma and appeal to Middle England Blair had, he is more John Smith
    John Smith was becoming ever more popular. Might have done better than Blair, although probably wouldn’t have had the tacit ‘deal’ with Ashdown.
    Smith would have got a majority of about 100 in 1997, not the 179 majority Blair got in 1997
    Shrewder politician than Blair though. Huge loss.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,264
    MJW said:

    Can't help but think in part Boris was helped by Corbyn

    Indeed

    BoZo's reputation as a winner doesn't stand up to scrutiny when you look at his opponents
  • Caroline Noakes talking pure common sense. Therefore it’s no surprise she’s nowhere near the leadership of the Tories
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Yep.

    And "grumpy" is to put it mildly. I've never known such anger.

    They're in for a shellacking.

    Worse than 1997? That's fighting talk, to be sure, but you may be right. My recollection of those days was that, for all people hated the Conservatives, there was still some residual sympathy for Major. I don't get that vibe this time.

    Challenge: fill in the gap in the sentence "This government has to go, but X is alright." I'm finding myself landing on Gove, which ought to be unthinkable.
    Opinium yesterday gives Labour a majority closer to 2005 than 1997.

    Voters may not like Sunak much but he is still seen as more competent than Major 1997 was and Starmer lacks the charisma and appeal to Middle England Blair had, he is more John Smith
    John Smith was becoming ever more popular. Might have done better than Blair, although probably wouldn’t have had the tacit ‘deal’ with Ashdown.
    Smith would have got a majority of about 100 in 1997, not the 179 majority Blair got in 1997
    Shrewer politician than Blair though. Huge loss.
    Best PM we never had
  • DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Mr. Punter, nope, Lorient, who lost to Montpellier in Ligue 1.

    Ah, the other Orient! Apologies. Genuine error, but gave me a chance to spout on about the team I supported from boyhood.
    Rather interesting bit of social history, so please don't apologise. Recently I went with my London friend to see the remains of the dockyard and the arsenal at Woolwich. Rather intrigued to find the pub we were lunching in was converted from the very workshop at the arsenal whose employees had clubbed together to start a football team called Woolwich Arsenal (no longer in the area either, I understand).
    Yes, I think it was the connection with the Army that helped make 'The Gunners' so popular.

    In my family, if you weren't an Orient supporter, the Arsenal was an acceptable alternative. Tottenham was not. West Ham was ok, but it was geographically some distance from the part of Hackney from which my tribe originated.
    I should have been an Orient supporter based on the fact that like England Captains Beckham, Kane and Gooch I was born in Whipps Cross Hospital. Unfortunately Ipswich were a very good team in the 70s so I unadvisedly followed my mother’s family into that purgatory.
    Good choice though. I remember that Ipswich side. Brilliant.

    Extraordinary the number of famous people born in the Leyton/Leytonstone area. Ever been in the Sir Alfred Hitchcock, the pub just down the road from Whipps Cross named after the local lad?
  • MJW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.

    BoZo not fucking awkward? He hid in a fridge to avoid answering questions. He ran away from Andrew Neil. He is brilliant as long as he doesn't have to speak to any journalists...
    There was also this doozy from the 2019 campaign. The URL says it all, really.

    https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2019-12-09/boris-johnson-takes-itv-reporter-s-phone-after-refusing-to-look-at-photo-of-boy-on-hospital-floor

    Can't help but think in part Boris was helped by Corbyn as rather neutralised his weakness to scrutiny and detail. Boris chickening out of interviews or running from hacks would've been more leapt upon had Corbyn not had his own car crash moments that made headlines and were a gift to papers wanting to run those rather than a Boris fiasco.
    I’ve said many times, if Johnson had faced Starmer in GE19 it would have been a hung parliament
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,682
    edited January 15
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    “Nothing” is a direct result of Sunak’s lack of political experience.

    His political message is that he is there to fix problems. It’s all he talks about. As such it’s hardly surprising that there is a consensus that he has inherited nothing but problems. He wanted to contrast himself with Truss and Johnson.

    Whilst it’s true that he’s inherited an ungodly mess of the Tories making, a more experienced politician would have a balanced the message with a positive project building on a past success. Tough to do given the raw material, but he has created a rod for his own back.

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.
    He performed dreadfully on his brief first visit to Scotland this week. He hasn’t the faintest idea what he’s doing.

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1614190496775012352?s=46&t=C4zYaZLgIvXtpNX6w60Bbw
    Sunak should just say Shut up, Fuck off, You had a vote in 2014 - that’s it for 20 years

    Because that is the truth. And the truth has a virtue of its own
    @Leon here is a credible calamity story that you seem to have missed, despite AI playing a small role in it as well.
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/1/13/2147015/-Somewhere-on-Thwaites-Glacier-is-a-fissure-so-deep-that-it-threatens-the-world-s-coastlines
    Basically the Thwaites glacier and sea ice sheet has been protected by large icebergs that had grounded on undersea mountains. They are now breaking free and when they do, within the next few years, the sea ice behind them will collapse driving sea levels up by 2 feet fairly quickly and ultimately by 10 feet once the Thwaites glacier collapses into the sea. A likely trigger point for this is the El Nino effect which starts this year.

    Its going to get a little damp in London and many other coastal cities.
    Bits of London, perhaps. I live near the top a hill so should be fine!
    I live in a village which has the word "hill" in the name so I will be too but you may find quite a lot of sodden Londoners wanting to share your space.
    London is however extraordinarily low-lying. I'm 200 metres away from the beach up a hill, and yet the sea would only be halfway up to my front door before much of London is underwater, leaving Hampstead as an island.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Yep.

    And "grumpy" is to put it mildly. I've never known such anger.

    They're in for a shellacking.

    Worse than 1997? That's fighting talk, to be sure, but you may be right. My recollection of those days was that, for all people hated the Conservatives, there was still some residual sympathy for Major. I don't get that vibe this time.

    Challenge: fill in the gap in the sentence "This government has to go, but X is alright." I'm finding myself landing on Gove, which ought to be unthinkable.
    Opinium yesterday gives Labour a majority closer to 2005 than 1997.

    Voters may not like Sunak much but he is still seen as more competent than Major 1997 was and Starmer lacks the charisma and appeal to Middle England Blair had, he is more John Smith
    John Smith was becoming ever more popular. Might have done better than Blair, although probably wouldn’t have had the tacit ‘deal’ with Ashdown.
    Smith would have got a majority of about 100 in 1997, not the 179 majority Blair got in 1997
    Shrewer politician than Blair though. Huge loss.
    Best PM we never had
    Clarke and Healey are the more usual nominees for that title, but John Smith would be up there.
  • IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    “Nothing” is a direct result of Sunak’s lack of political experience.

    His political message is that he is there to fix problems. It’s all he talks about. As such it’s hardly surprising that there is a consensus that he has inherited nothing but problems. He wanted to contrast himself with Truss and Johnson.

    Whilst it’s true that he’s inherited an ungodly mess of the Tories making, a more experienced politician would have a balanced the message with a positive project building on a past success. Tough to do given the raw material, but he has created a rod for his own back.

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.
    He performed dreadfully on his brief first visit to Scotland this week. He hasn’t the faintest idea what he’s doing.

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1614190496775012352?s=46&t=C4zYaZLgIvXtpNX6w60Bbw
    Sunak should just say Shut up, Fuck off, You had a vote in 2014 - that’s it for 20 years

    Because that is the truth. And the truth has a virtue of its own
    @Leon here is a credible calamity story that you seem to have missed, despite AI playing a small role in it as well.
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/1/13/2147015/-Somewhere-on-Thwaites-Glacier-is-a-fissure-so-deep-that-it-threatens-the-world-s-coastlines
    Basically the Thwaites glacier and sea ice sheet has been protected by large icebergs that had grounded on undersea mountains. They are now breaking free and when they do, within the next few years, the sea ice behind them will collapse driving sea levels up by 2 feet fairly quickly and ultimately by 10 feet once the Thwaites glacier collapses into the sea. A likely trigger point for this is the El Nino effect which starts this year.

    Its going to get a little damp in London and many other coastal cities.
    Bits of London, perhaps. I live near the top a hill so should be fine!
    I live in a village which has the word "hill" in the name so I will be too but you may find quite a lot of sodden Londoners wanting to share your space.
    London is however extraordinarily low-lying. I'm 200 metres away from the beach up a hill, and yet the sea would only be halfway up to my front door before much of London is underwater, leaving Hampstead as an island.
    Funnily enough I am 200 metres from the beach up a hill
  • DavidL said:

    In the period 95-97 my memory was of a government mired in sleaze, with a tiny majority that was shrinking with every bye election. Major's back to basics campaign with its emphasis on family values was a disaster making every backbencher who got caught with his trousers down a matter of genuine public interest rather than just a matter for his wife. Even the PM was at although we did not know that at the time.

    Today, I think the problems are rather different. Major still had strong waves of Thatcherism about him, no one wondered what the Tories were for, whether they liked it or not. Now? The kindest description one could give of the current party is pragmatic managerialism and they are not very good at that as the failure to resolve the NHS strikes shows. It's not good enough and they need what will almost certainly be a longish period in opposition to work out what they are for.

    The worry for the country is that SKS regards pragmatic managerialism as an aspiration, and that is before they even start.

    The Tory party feels almost as riven as Labour was during the worst of the Corbyn era. There's a significant division over policies and ethos with the groups mired in factional fighting. Sunak was a paid up Brexiteer but has been expelled by the uber alles group because he can do maths. And the Faragista set are prowling on the edges, with the deposed King Boris waiting to be restored to the throne.

    Labour have only recovered having ended their civil war and purged their lunatics. Tory lunatics remain in offices like Home Secretary so there is no chance of dealing with them yet.
  • Foxy said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: well, Lorient did fail to win, which is a shame, but Manchester United did, which is nice. Green for the last set of bets, probably still just in the red overall this year (haven't updated my records yet).

    Politics: Conservatives are in a rough spot, partly of their own making (the prior two PMs) and partly due to strategic reasons. Easy Labour win next time round, but what they actually do when they inherit problems that can't be fixed by an abundance of straightforward spending due to an economy in fantastic shape will make it trickier to govern than campaign.

    Good grief, Morris. Don't tell me there are two Orient supporters on here?

    Mind you, things are looking up and we're no longer a Protected Species. Sell out at Brisbane Road again yesterday.

    Shame about the game.
    Never felt the same about them since they changed their name. I used to love having a football league team simply called Orient.
    They were originally Clapton Orient, based at Millfields near the River Lea and named after the Orient Tea Company. They played to huge crowds at the vast Clapton Stadium for many years in the old Division Three South, but the owners of the ground wanted to use it exclusively for Greyhound Racing and the O's had to decamp north to Leyton and their current home at Brisbane Road. The crowds didn't follow them though and they hemorraged support to West Ham, Tottenham and Arsenal. It's been tough being a fan ever since, with only the occasional bright spot (promotion to the old Div 1 in 1962/63) to cheer.

    The name changed to Orient as a result of a spat between chairman Brian Winstone and the local Council and stayed that way for many years after he left. Can't remember when it went back to Leyton Orient but I prefer it. The ground is, after all, in Leyton.

    Recent years have been a real roller coaster. They were pretty successful under the excellent stewardship of Barry Hearn and got within one penalty kick of the Championship. He then sold out - a decision he now regrets - and the club was taken over by a bunch of crooks (literally). Results deteriorated sharply; they dropped out of the football league and almost out of existence completely. They are now in the hands of a small group of wealthy supporters and are prospering again under the management of Richie Wellens. They look certain for promotion back to Div 1, which is probably where they belong.
    Richie Wellens was a decent midfielder with Leicester a decade and a bit back. I hope he does well for the "O's".
    He was once a brilliant prospect with Man U but got his marching orders following a drink-drive conviction.

    Good to see he has turned his career around.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,825

    Good morning

    Listening to Starmer on the NHS he really does seem determined to reform it root and branch and take on the vested interests including the BMA

    I believe the NHS needs to lose its religious zeal and change and frankly Starmer is best placed to take this huge issue on as he will be, lest we forget, a Labour PM

    The reforms he suggests are trivial. A substantial proportion of GPs are already salaried, not least because new GPs don't want the hassles of partnership. Direct referral to physios and some carefully selected specialists aren't some magic solution.
  • Foxy said:

    Good morning

    Listening to Starmer on the NHS he really does seem determined to reform it root and branch and take on the vested interests including the BMA

    I believe the NHS needs to lose its religious zeal and change and frankly Starmer is best placed to take this huge issue on as he will be, lest we forget, a Labour PM

    The reforms he suggests are trivial. A substantial proportion of GPs are already salaried, not least because new GPs don't want the hassles of partnership. Direct referral to physios and some carefully selected specialists aren't some magic solution.
    I expect doctors to be dismissive but change is needed and outsourcing the waiting list is very sensible
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,759

    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: well, Lorient did fail to win, which is a shame, but Manchester United did, which is nice. Green for the last set of bets, probably still just in the red overall this year (haven't updated my records yet).

    Politics: Conservatives are in a rough spot, partly of their own making (the prior two PMs) and partly due to strategic reasons. Easy Labour win next time round, but what they actually do when they inherit problems that can't be fixed by an abundance of straightforward spending due to an economy in fantastic shape will make it trickier to govern than campaign.

    Good grief, Morris. Don't tell me there are two Orient supporters on here?

    Mind you, things are looking up and we're no longer a Protected Species. Sell out at Brisbane Road again yesterday.

    Shame about the game.
    I thought Orient got a rough deal when West Ham got their new stadium in "Orient territory".
    Thank God Spurs failed to get that stadium!

    I was outraged too at the time, but it may have been a blessing in disguise. Apparently as a football stadium West Ham's new gaff has all the atmosphere of a morgue. Brisbane Road may be small but works well for their current status. It would be a problem if they got as far as the Championship because the capacity is so low (about 10,000) but I gather that as far as finances are concerned crowd attendance is less important than TV and streaming income, where the O's do well.

    They really are a popular side well beyond the confines of Leyton.
    Back in my Hackney days (1980s) we used to go to all the Orient games, though we weren't particularly supporters. The pull over the big teams was that you could rock up at 2.55pm, and it was dirt cheap. And yes, we used to drink in the Hitchcock as well.
  • IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    “Nothing” is a direct result of Sunak’s lack of political experience.

    His political message is that he is there to fix problems. It’s all he talks about. As such it’s hardly surprising that there is a consensus that he has inherited nothing but problems. He wanted to contrast himself with Truss and Johnson.

    Whilst it’s true that he’s inherited an ungodly mess of the Tories making, a more experienced politician would have a balanced the message with a positive project building on a past success. Tough to do given the raw material, but he has created a rod for his own back.

    He's going to be terrible in a GE campaign. He's so fucking awkward and small and rich. The tories need Johnson back for the GE as he was, until recently, none of those things and is still not two of them.
    He performed dreadfully on his brief first visit to Scotland this week. He hasn’t the faintest idea what he’s doing.

    https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1614190496775012352?s=46&t=C4zYaZLgIvXtpNX6w60Bbw
    Sunak should just say Shut up, Fuck off, You had a vote in 2014 - that’s it for 20 years

    Because that is the truth. And the truth has a virtue of its own
    @Leon here is a credible calamity story that you seem to have missed, despite AI playing a small role in it as well.
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/1/13/2147015/-Somewhere-on-Thwaites-Glacier-is-a-fissure-so-deep-that-it-threatens-the-world-s-coastlines
    Basically the Thwaites glacier and sea ice sheet has been protected by large icebergs that had grounded on undersea mountains. They are now breaking free and when they do, within the next few years, the sea ice behind them will collapse driving sea levels up by 2 feet fairly quickly and ultimately by 10 feet once the Thwaites glacier collapses into the sea. A likely trigger point for this is the El Nino effect which starts this year.

    Its going to get a little damp in London and many other coastal cities.
    Bits of London, perhaps. I live near the top a hill so should be fine!
    I live in a village which has the word "hill" in the name so I will be too but you may find quite a lot of sodden Londoners wanting to share your space.
    London is however extraordinarily low-lying. I'm 200 metres away from the beach up a hill, and yet the sea would only be halfway up to my front door before much of London is underwater, leaving Hampstead as an island.
    Hackney Marshes would become Lake Hackney.

    Hampstead would be safe though, and socially speaking it's an island already.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 1,791
    Switzerland has blocked the supply of Aspide air defense systems to Ukraine.
    The Swiss had NO problem selling air defence systems to Qatar to protect stadiums during the soccer World Cup.

    https://twitter.com/eastveterans/status/1614193611654025218

    Can this seriously be right? Jesus.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,825

    Foxy said:

    Good morning

    Listening to Starmer on the NHS he really does seem determined to reform it root and branch and take on the vested interests including the BMA

    I believe the NHS needs to lose its religious zeal and change and frankly Starmer is best placed to take this huge issue on as he will be, lest we forget, a Labour PM

    The reforms he suggests are trivial. A substantial proportion of GPs are already salaried, not least because new GPs don't want the hassles of partnership. Direct referral to physios and some carefully selected specialists aren't some magic solution.
    I expect doctors to be dismissive but change is needed and outsourcing the waiting list is very sensible
    Yes, but that has been happening for 2 decades, indeed the majority of work at private hospitals is from the NHS already. My surgical colleagues are quite happy with it. They skim off the easy cases with no intercurrent conditions, go part time to avoid the pension tax trap and coin it in.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    It's a generational change too. Every 30 years or so it is decided the old order isn't working. Usually after more than a decade of Tory rule. Pandemic has sped it up, but I reckon it would have happened anyways.
    Early sixties, mid nineties, early twenties.
    Not much anyone can do tbh.
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