Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

It now evens that HealthSec Barclay will be the first out – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,793
edited January 2023 in General
imageIt now evens that HealthSec Barclay will be the first out – politicalbetting.com

With the NHS going through a particularly difficult period it is perhaps no wonder that punters rate the Health Secretary Steve Barker as having the best chance of being the next cabinet exit.

Read the full story here

«1

Comments

  • Options
    WillGWillG Posts: 2,223
    Surprise, surprise. Turns out like the Protocol didn't need to be enforced after all.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64149139

    This was all about the EU getting its pound of flesh. Now the Tories look done for, they don't need go be so unnecessarily hardline any more.

    But it says a lot they were prepared to hurt Northern Ireland just for vengeance on the UK.
  • Options
    WillG said:

    Surprise, surprise. Turns out like the Protocol didn't need to be enforced after all.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64149139

    This was all about the EU getting its pound of flesh. Now the Tories look done for, they don't need go be so unnecessarily hardline any more.

    But it says a lot they were prepared to hurt Northern Ireland just for vengeance on the UK.

    It also says that Britain (and the EU) negotiated a "too strict" protocol. This was not something imposed by the EU. Whether our leaders (or theirs) were incompetent or negotiating in bad faith is left as an exercise for the reader.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,124
    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: gosh! Troyes came back and Liverpool lost, so some green shoots of betting recovery appear.

    Given the health situation, it wouldn't be too surprising if the Health Secretary found himself on the chopping block.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,877

    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: gosh! Troyes came back and Liverpool lost, so some green shoots of betting recovery appear.

    Given the health situation, it wouldn't be too surprising if the Health Secretary found himself on the chopping block.

    Replacement with HS2 (lol) would however raise expectations of and therefore demand a change in policy, both on funding and on the pay dispute. Only an idiot would take the job otherwise. What signs are there that the government has yet thought this through and done the necessary ground work?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,811
    IanB2 said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: gosh! Troyes came back and Liverpool lost, so some green shoots of betting recovery appear.

    Given the health situation, it wouldn't be too surprising if the Health Secretary found himself on the chopping block.

    Replacement with HS2 (lol) would however raise expectations of and therefore demand a change in policy, both on funding and on the pay dispute. Only an idiot would take the job otherwise. What signs are there that the government has yet thought this through and done the necessary ground work?
    Barclay has been useless as Health Sec, but was not brought in to fix it, he was installed purely to reduce costs.

    When at the Treasury in late 2020 he tried to stop the vaccine roll out on cost grounds, so is it any surprise that he doesn't care about the state of the Emergency and Ambulance services?

    https://twitter.com/ShaunLintern/status/1544653718045556736?t=9VP3_9RPoAyHMdLsH_lF7w&s=19
  • Options

    WillG said:

    Surprise, surprise. Turns out like the Protocol didn't need to be enforced after all.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64149139

    This was all about the EU getting its pound of flesh. Now the Tories look done for, they don't need go be so unnecessarily hardline any more.

    But it says a lot they were prepared to hurt Northern Ireland just for vengeance on the UK.

    It also says that Britain (and the EU) negotiated a "too strict" protocol. This was not something imposed by the EU. Whether our leaders (or theirs) were incompetent or negotiating in bad faith is left as an exercise for the reader.
    Both sets of leaders both fairly incompetent and negotiating in at least slightly bad faith?
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Surprise, surprise lots of excess deaths recorded in Germany, Spain & othe EU nations as the Tories try to destroy health services across the EU... :smiley:
  • Options

    WillG said:

    Surprise, surprise. Turns out like the Protocol didn't need to be enforced after all.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64149139

    This was all about the EU getting its pound of flesh. Now the Tories look done for, they don't need go be so unnecessarily hardline any more.

    But it says a lot they were prepared to hurt Northern Ireland just for vengeance on the UK.

    It also says that Britain (and the EU) negotiated a "too strict" protocol. This was not something imposed by the EU. Whether our leaders (or theirs) were incompetent or negotiating in bad faith is left as an exercise for the reader.
    Both sets of leaders both fairly incompetent and negotiating in at least slightly bad faith?
    There is no door, there are no ninjas.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,811

    WillG said:

    Surprise, surprise. Turns out like the Protocol didn't need to be enforced after all.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64149139

    This was all about the EU getting its pound of flesh. Now the Tories look done for, they don't need go be so unnecessarily hardline any more.

    But it says a lot they were prepared to hurt Northern Ireland just for vengeance on the UK.

    It also says that Britain (and the EU) negotiated a "too strict" protocol. This was not something imposed by the EU. Whether our leaders (or theirs) were incompetent or negotiating in bad faith is left as an exercise for the reader.
    Anyone expecting Johnson to keep his word was incredibly naive. He never had any intention of sticking to his Oven Ready Deal.

    Flexibility and reasonableness is fine, but nowhere in that article is Varadkar saying that it doesn't need to be enforced.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,124
    Dr. Foxy, if he actually tried to stop a vaccination programme during a pandemic that's quite a creative use of 'thinking'.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,811

    Dr. Foxy, if he actually tried to stop a vaccination programme during a pandemic that's quite a creative use of 'thinking'.

    Barclay trying to delay the vaccine on cost grounds was from the NAO report and quoted in the Health Service Journal.
  • Options
    On topic, do not misunderestimate the brilliance of a Cambridge educated solicitor.

    My bet on this market is Ben Wallace at 25/1.
  • Options
    This is another reason why I'd expect no GE2023.

    House prices are on course to suffer their biggest decline since the financial crisis, with economists warning of a market “correction” this year caused by rising borrowing costs and a likely recession.

    Two thirds of economists surveyed by The Times expected house prices to fall by more than 4 per cent, with most warning of near-double-digit declines, making 2023 the worst year for the housing market since 2009.

    “A double-digit price fall would not be surprising,” Sanjay Raja, chief UK economist at Deutsche Bank, said. “If typical mortgage rates remain above 5 per cent, together with an unprecedented squeeze on household incomes, it is hard to see how house prices can avoid taking a significant hit in 2023.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/house-prices-set-to-slump-during-2023-8rkvf7ztw
  • Options
    Very sad state of affairs.

    MPs are wearing stab vests to constituency surgeries and considering hiring private security as they fear another politician will be killed before their safety is taken seriously.

    Sir David Amess, Conservative MP for Southend West, was murdered at a constituency surgery in October 2021, prompting the promise of stronger security for MPs. Jo Cox, Labour MP for Batley & Spen, was murdered in 2016.

    However, more than a year after the death of Amess politicians feel as vulnerable as ever and believe that there will be another murder before change comes.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mps-stab-vests-security-fears-politician-killed-gg8mrsrtb
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,974

    WillG said:

    Surprise, surprise. Turns out like the Protocol didn't need to be enforced after all.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64149139

    This was all about the EU getting its pound of flesh. Now the Tories look done for, they don't need go be so unnecessarily hardline any more.

    But it says a lot they were prepared to hurt Northern Ireland just for vengeance on the UK.

    It also says that Britain (and the EU) negotiated a "too strict" protocol. This was not something imposed by the EU. Whether our leaders (or theirs) were incompetent or negotiating in bad faith is left as an exercise for the reader.
    Both sets of leaders both fairly incompetent and negotiating in at least slightly bad faith?
    The NIP was broadly created from scratch between some point very much towards the end of the May premiership in mid 2019 and the autumn of 2019, to replace the May approach of stepping towards the practical arrangement on NI prior to divergence on goods.

    In fact, Boris gave the appearance of pulling it out of his hat (and it clearly being bewailed as worse on day 1 in terms of NI alignment than what came prior) at a meeting with Varadkar (on the Wirral iirc), and that was agreed very quickly and stood unchanged when Brexit was 'done' by January.

    So, a quickly done full reworking based on a substantially changed UK position, which the UK broadly just waved through to Get Brexit Done, turned out to be suboptimal. Who'd have thunk?

    OTOH, the goodwill and flexibility shown in the implementation both means some credit be given to the EU but also provides some cover for the UK's approach.

  • Options
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: gosh! Troyes came back and Liverpool lost, so some green shoots of betting recovery appear.

    Given the health situation, it wouldn't be too surprising if the Health Secretary found himself on the chopping block.

    Replacement with HS2 (lol) would however raise expectations of and therefore demand a change in policy, both on funding and on the pay dispute. Only an idiot would take the job otherwise. What signs are there that the government has yet thought this through and done the necessary ground work?
    Barclay has been useless as Health Sec, but was not brought in to fix it, he was installed purely to reduce costs.

    When at the Treasury in late 2020 he tried to stop the vaccine roll out on cost grounds, so is it any surprise that he doesn't care about the state of the Emergency and Ambulance services?

    https://twitter.com/ShaunLintern/status/1544653718045556736?t=9VP3_9RPoAyHMdLsH_lF7w&s=19
    Don't care is right. Any moral politician would be working to fix this.
  • Options
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280
    edited January 2023

    On topic, do not misunderestimate the brilliance of a Cambridge educated solicitor.

    My bet on this market is Ben Wallace at 25/1.

    It's obvious you've never worked in education.

    (That's a reference to Spielman, not Wallace, by the way.)
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,653

    Very sad state of affairs.

    MPs are wearing stab vests to constituency surgeries and considering hiring private security as they fear another politician will be killed before their safety is taken seriously.

    Sir David Amess, Conservative MP for Southend West, was murdered at a constituency surgery in October 2021, prompting the promise of stronger security for MPs. Jo Cox, Labour MP for Batley & Spen, was murdered in 2016.

    However, more than a year after the death of Amess politicians feel as vulnerable as ever and believe that there will be another murder before change comes.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mps-stab-vests-security-fears-politician-killed-gg8mrsrtb

    Transaction volumes have dried up completely in leafy NW3/NW8.

    Not long ago, a house on Cavendish Avenue (same street as Sir Paul and Lord's) wouldn't have even made it onto Zoopla - it would have been sold off-market in 24 hours.

    Now, stuff has been listed for 3-4, even 6 months, and still isn't selling. And if it's on the market for that long, you know they'll be willing to take offer 5-10%, even 15% below asking.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280
    rcs1000 said:

    Very sad state of affairs.

    MPs are wearing stab vests to constituency surgeries and considering hiring private security as they fear another politician will be killed before their safety is taken seriously.

    Sir David Amess, Conservative MP for Southend West, was murdered at a constituency surgery in October 2021, prompting the promise of stronger security for MPs. Jo Cox, Labour MP for Batley & Spen, was murdered in 2016.

    However, more than a year after the death of Amess politicians feel as vulnerable as ever and believe that there will be another murder before change comes.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mps-stab-vests-security-fears-politician-killed-gg8mrsrtb

    Transaction volumes have dried up completely in leafy NW3/NW8.

    Not long ago, a house on Cavendish Avenue (same street as Sir Paul and Lord's) wouldn't have even made it onto Zoopla - it would have been sold off-market in 24 hours.

    Now, stuff has been listed for 3-4, even 6 months, and still isn't selling. And if it's on the market for that long, you know they'll be willing to take offer 5-10%, even 15% below asking.
    Did you quote the wrong post there?
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,392
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: gosh! Troyes came back and Liverpool lost, so some green shoots of betting recovery appear.

    Given the health situation, it wouldn't be too surprising if the Health Secretary found himself on the chopping block.

    Replacement with HS2 (lol) would however raise expectations of and therefore demand a change in policy, both on funding and on the pay dispute. Only an idiot would take the job otherwise. What signs are there that the government has yet thought this through and done the necessary ground work?
    Barclay has been useless as Health Sec, but was not brought in to fix it, he was installed purely to reduce costs.

    When at the Treasury in late 2020 he tried to stop the vaccine roll out on cost grounds, so is it any surprise that he doesn't care about the state of the Emergency and Ambulance services?

    https://twitter.com/ShaunLintern/status/1544653718045556736?t=9VP3_9RPoAyHMdLsH_lF7w&s=19
    My initial reaction to today's header was that it'd be unfair to sack him as it's clearly a PM decision not to negotiate on pay. But that's a pretty shocking story.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: gosh! Troyes came back and Liverpool lost, so some green shoots of betting recovery appear.

    Given the health situation, it wouldn't be too surprising if the Health Secretary found himself on the chopping block.

    Replacement with HS2 (lol) would however raise expectations of and therefore demand a change in policy, both on funding and on the pay dispute. Only an idiot would take the job otherwise. What signs are there that the government has yet thought this through and done the necessary ground work?
    Barclay has been useless as Health Sec, but was not brought in to fix it, he was installed purely to reduce costs.

    When at the Treasury in late 2020 he tried to stop the vaccine roll out on cost grounds, so is it any surprise that he doesn't care about the state of the Emergency and Ambulance services?

    https://twitter.com/ShaunLintern/status/1544653718045556736?t=9VP3_9RPoAyHMdLsH_lF7w&s=19
    My initial reaction to today's header was that it'd be unfair to sack him as it's clearly a PM decision not to negotiate on pay. But that's a pretty shocking story.
    Somebody who can't do a basic cost/benefit analysis shouldn't be at the Treasury or the DoH.

    Mind you, Transport is riddled with them.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,811
    In November the Discharge to Assess scheme was refused by Barclay, despite the DHSC report calculating the savings to the NHS as £7 Billion over the coming years.

    This was a scheme where the NHS funded Social Care for up to six weeks, thereby freeing up acute hospital beds. During this six week period an assessment would be made as to whether a package of home care, or residential care was needed. It was used during the pandemic, including by my Mother in Law.

    Such a scheme would have freed up beds in Acute Trusts, creating beds for admissions and getting patients out of ambulances on forecourts. It would have saved both money and lives.

    https://www.hsj.co.uk/finance-and-efficiency/discharge-reform-could-save-nhs-7bn-claims-dhsc/7033675.article?mkt_tok=OTM2LUZSWi03MTkAAAGIGYJgVdjcoAalzM2EieHoyWwzRa6mPP0v9KLFgVUzTWZcpU_s5CMQmXo0KGvyYNyMoezpBr1385ODFT28w4sxelWCcG4mt4uLJWc756TSh9NjNA#commentsJump
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,337
    ...
  • Options

    Very sad state of affairs.

    MPs are wearing stab vests to constituency surgeries and considering hiring private security as they fear another politician will be killed before their safety is taken seriously.

    Sir David Amess, Conservative MP for Southend West, was murdered at a constituency surgery in October 2021, prompting the promise of stronger security for MPs. Jo Cox, Labour MP for Batley & Spen, was murdered in 2016.

    However, more than a year after the death of Amess politicians feel as vulnerable as ever and believe that there will be another murder before change comes.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mps-stab-vests-security-fears-politician-killed-gg8mrsrtb

    I cannot read the paywalled article but what exactly do MPs want? Security guard or police protection would be expensive and intrusive, and might deter marginalised constituents from seeking help. Metal detectors at MPs' surgeries would not have saved Jo Cox who was murdered in the street.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Football: gosh! Troyes came back and Liverpool lost, so some green shoots of betting recovery appear.

    Given the health situation, it wouldn't be too surprising if the Health Secretary found himself on the chopping block.

    Replacement with HS2 (lol) would however raise expectations of and therefore demand a change in policy, both on funding and on the pay dispute. Only an idiot would take the job otherwise. What signs are there that the government has yet thought this through and done the necessary ground work?
    Barclay has been useless as Health Sec, but was not brought in to fix it, he was installed purely to reduce costs.

    When at the Treasury in late 2020 he tried to stop the vaccine roll out on cost grounds, so is it any surprise that he doesn't care about the state of the Emergency and Ambulance services?

    https://twitter.com/ShaunLintern/status/1544653718045556736?t=9VP3_9RPoAyHMdLsH_lF7w&s=19
    My initial reaction to today's header was that it'd be unfair to sack him as it's clearly a PM decision not to negotiate on pay. But that's a pretty shocking story.
    Somebody who can't do a basic cost/benefit analysis shouldn't be at the Treasury or the DoH.

    Mind you, Transport is riddled with them.
    Anyone who could do basic cost/benefit analysis wouldn't join this government.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280
    Matt Henry and Ajaz Patel thoroughly enjoying themselves in Karachi this morning.
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,056
    Question for the day - Does anything work in this Tory f*cked country?

    All this talk about the halfwit Barclay but what about the Tory cretin running Transport?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,653
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Very sad state of affairs.

    MPs are wearing stab vests to constituency surgeries and considering hiring private security as they fear another politician will be killed before their safety is taken seriously.

    Sir David Amess, Conservative MP for Southend West, was murdered at a constituency surgery in October 2021, prompting the promise of stronger security for MPs. Jo Cox, Labour MP for Batley & Spen, was murdered in 2016.

    However, more than a year after the death of Amess politicians feel as vulnerable as ever and believe that there will be another murder before change comes.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mps-stab-vests-security-fears-politician-killed-gg8mrsrtb

    Transaction volumes have dried up completely in leafy NW3/NW8.

    Not long ago, a house on Cavendish Avenue (same street as Sir Paul and Lord's) wouldn't have even made it onto Zoopla - it would have been sold off-market in 24 hours.

    Now, stuff has been listed for 3-4, even 6 months, and still isn't selling. And if it's on the market for that long, you know they'll be willing to take offer 5-10%, even 15% below asking.
    Did you quote the wrong post there?
    Yes
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,295
    edited January 2023



    My initial reaction to today's header was that it'd be unfair to sack him as it's clearly a PM decision not to negotiate on pay. But that's a pretty shocking story.

    That's politics though. Part of being a Cabinet Minister is the knowledge that you might have to take one up the bugle and go when a reversal of policy is necessitated.

    Philip Schofield's Inbred Cousin might have to go if the run of appalling front pages continues and Rishi has to surrender.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,392

    Very sad state of affairs.

    MPs are wearing stab vests to constituency surgeries and considering hiring private security as they fear another politician will be killed before their safety is taken seriously.

    Sir David Amess, Conservative MP for Southend West, was murdered at a constituency surgery in October 2021, prompting the promise of stronger security for MPs. Jo Cox, Labour MP for Batley & Spen, was murdered in 2016.

    However, more than a year after the death of Amess politicians feel as vulnerable as ever and believe that there will be another murder before change comes.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mps-stab-vests-security-fears-politician-killed-gg8mrsrtb

    I cannot read the paywalled article but what exactly do MPs want? Security guard or police protection would be expensive and intrusive, and might deter marginalised constituents from seeking help. Metal detectors at MPs' surgeries would not have saved Jo Cox who was murdered in the street.
    They mention stab vests, panic alarms, possibly a hired security guard (who could be in plain clothes and discreet) at surgeries, improved security of MPs' homes. Nothing is perfect, as you say, and if I was still an MP in sleepy Broxtowe I don't think I'd do all that, but it would have prevented the David Amess murder and the near-fatal attack on Stephen Timms. There would be some cost, but in this case I think the taxpayer should be willing to cough up - it's not in the public interest that good people (perhaps especially women) should be scared out of helping to run the country.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,811

    Very sad state of affairs.

    MPs are wearing stab vests to constituency surgeries and considering hiring private security as they fear another politician will be killed before their safety is taken seriously.

    Sir David Amess, Conservative MP for Southend West, was murdered at a constituency surgery in October 2021, prompting the promise of stronger security for MPs. Jo Cox, Labour MP for Batley & Spen, was murdered in 2016.

    However, more than a year after the death of Amess politicians feel as vulnerable as ever and believe that there will be another murder before change comes.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mps-stab-vests-security-fears-politician-killed-gg8mrsrtb

    I cannot read the paywalled article but what exactly do MPs want? Security guard or police protection would be expensive and intrusive, and might deter marginalised constituents from seeking help. Metal detectors at MPs' surgeries would not have saved Jo Cox who was murdered in the street.
    They mention stab vests, panic alarms, possibly a hired security guard (who could be in plain clothes and discreet) at surgeries, improved security of MPs' homes. Nothing is perfect, as you say, and if I was still an MP in sleepy Broxtowe I don't think I'd do all that, but it would have prevented the David Amess murder and the near-fatal attack on Stephen Timms. There would be some cost, but in this case I think the taxpayer should be willing to cough up - it's not in the public interest that good people (perhaps especially women) should be scared out of helping to run the country.
    Is Broxtowe any more sleepy than Southend?

    Certainly the atmosphere of threat, amplified by Social Media, has often been cited particularly by female MPs as to why they are standing down.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,460
    edited January 2023
    ydoethur said:

    Matt Henry and Ajaz Patel thoroughly enjoying themselves in Karachi this morning.

    Lol, with the bat and not the ball.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280
    Dura_Ace said:



    My initial reaction to today's header was that it'd be unfair to sack him as it's clearly a PM decision not to negotiate on pay. But that's a pretty shocking story.

    That's politics though. Part of being a Cabinet Minister is the knowledge that you might have to take one up the bugle and go when a reversal of policy is necessitated.

    Philip Schofield's Inbred Cousin might have to go if the run of appalling front pages continues and Rishi has to surrender.
    Who was that ex-RAF Tory you actually heard good things about?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,811
    edited January 2023
    Foxy said:

    In November the Discharge to Assess scheme was refused by Barclay, despite the DHSC report calculating the savings to the NHS as £7 Billion over the coming years.

    This was a scheme where the NHS funded Social Care for up to six weeks, thereby freeing up acute hospital beds. During this six week period an assessment would be made as to whether a package of home care, or residential care was needed. It was used during the pandemic, including by my Mother in Law.

    Such a scheme would have freed up beds in Acute Trusts, creating beds for admissions and getting patients out of ambulances on forecourts. It would have saved both money and lives.

    https://www.hsj.co.uk/finance-and-efficiency/discharge-reform-could-save-nhs-7bn-claims-dhsc/7033675.article?mkt_tok=OTM2LUZSWi03MTkAAAGIGYJgVdjcoAalzM2EieHoyWwzRa6mPP0v9KLFgVUzTWZcpU_s5CMQmXo0KGvyYNyMoezpBr1385ODFT28w4sxelWCcG4mt4uLJWc756TSh9NjNA#commentsJump

    Such a scheme could be implemented almost immediately to relieve pressure on Acute Trusts, provide more appropriate level of care and assessment, use private sector SC to support the NHS and even save money.

    Yet we are told that the NHS is resistant to change, and refuses to innovate. The reality is that it is the Health Secretary that refuses to allow innovation.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280
    edited January 2023
    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Matt Henry and Ajaz Patel thoroughly enjoying themselves in Karachi this morning.

    Lol, with the bat and not the ball.
    Well, why not? Cricket's an incredibly cruel game to bowlers as they have to bat even if they're no good at batting. Poor Chris Martin, for example, an object of worldwide ridicule for a Test average of 2. Or Courtney Walsh - first bowler to 500 wickets, also remembered for 37 test ducks.

    Nobody remembers the worst test bowler of all time - the one who tripped over his own feet in his delivery stride and broke an ankle - as a bowler, because he hardly ever bowled. He's remembered instead almost solely for the runs he scored - albeit also for *that* duck in his final innings in 1948.

    All power to Patel and Henry's elbows, I say.

    Edit - century stand. Babar Azam must feel his captaincy slipping away by the second...
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,361
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    In November the Discharge to Assess scheme was refused by Barclay, despite the DHSC report calculating the savings to the NHS as £7 Billion over the coming years.

    This was a scheme where the NHS funded Social Care for up to six weeks, thereby freeing up acute hospital beds. During this six week period an assessment would be made as to whether a package of home care, or residential care was needed. It was used during the pandemic, including by my Mother in Law.

    Such a scheme would have freed up beds in Acute Trusts, creating beds for admissions and getting patients out of ambulances on forecourts. It would have saved both money and lives.

    https://www.hsj.co.uk/finance-and-efficiency/discharge-reform-could-save-nhs-7bn-claims-dhsc/7033675.article?mkt_tok=OTM2LUZSWi03MTkAAAGIGYJgVdjcoAalzM2EieHoyWwzRa6mPP0v9KLFgVUzTWZcpU_s5CMQmXo0KGvyYNyMoezpBr1385ODFT28w4sxelWCcG4mt4uLJWc756TSh9NjNA#commentsJump

    Such a scheme could be implemented almost immediately to relieve pressure on Acute Trusts, provide more appropriate level of care and assessment, use private sector SC to support the NHS and even save money.

    Yet we are told that the NHS is resistant to change, and refuses to innovate. The reality is that it is the Health Secretary that refuses to allow innovation.
    I’m on a scheme like that; it starter just before Christmas.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,460
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Matt Henry and Ajaz Patel thoroughly enjoying themselves in Karachi this morning.

    Lol, with the bat and not the ball.
    Well, why not? Cricket's an incredibly cruel game to bowlers as they have to bat even if they're no good at batting. Poor Chris Martin, for example, an object of worldwide ridicule for a Test average of 2. Or Courtney Walsh - first bowler to 500 wickets, also remembered for 37 test ducks.

    Nobody remembers the worst test bowler of all time - the one who tripped over his own feet in his delivery stride and broke an ankle - as a bowler, because he hardly ever bowled. He's remembered instead almost solely for the runs he scored - albeit also for *that* duck in his final innings in 1948.

    All power to Patel and Henry's elbows, I say.

    Edit - century stand. Babar Azam must feel his captaincy slipping away by the second...
    Here's Nasser bowling lobbing some pies:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xi3hd2lCIs
  • Options
    murali_s said:

    Question for the day - Does anything work in this Tory f*cked country?

    All this talk about the halfwit Barclay but what about the Tory cretin running Transport?

    The DfT (driven by the Treasury) want to heavily cut rail spending. Which means cutting services significantly vs pre-Covid levels. Various operators annoyingly found themselves back to pre-Covid (despite ministers saying much less) so implement plan B.

    Deliberately make the railways unusable, especially in the north. Passengers stop using it, ministers can pull money AND cut the obviously unnecessary Northern Powerhouse Rail.

    Remember to vote Conservative in the Red Wall.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280

    murali_s said:

    Question for the day - Does anything work in this Tory f*cked country?

    All this talk about the halfwit Barclay but what about the Tory cretin running Transport?

    The DfT (driven by the Treasury) want to heavily cut rail spending. Which means cutting services significantly vs pre-Covid levels. Various operators annoyingly found themselves back to pre-Covid (despite ministers saying much less) so implement plan B.

    Deliberately make the railways unusable, especially in the north. Passengers stop using it, ministers can pull money AND cut the obviously unnecessary Northern Powerhouse Rail.

    Remember to vote Conservative in the Red Wall.
    They already have.

    Or, to be more exact, they've put forward a plan that's obviously fraudulent and unworkable (running at high speed on a 30mph curvy freight line FFS) so eventually it will have to be pulled.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,811

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    In November the Discharge to Assess scheme was refused by Barclay, despite the DHSC report calculating the savings to the NHS as £7 Billion over the coming years.

    This was a scheme where the NHS funded Social Care for up to six weeks, thereby freeing up acute hospital beds. During this six week period an assessment would be made as to whether a package of home care, or residential care was needed. It was used during the pandemic, including by my Mother in Law.

    Such a scheme would have freed up beds in Acute Trusts, creating beds for admissions and getting patients out of ambulances on forecourts. It would have saved both money and lives.

    https://www.hsj.co.uk/finance-and-efficiency/discharge-reform-could-save-nhs-7bn-claims-dhsc/7033675.article?mkt_tok=OTM2LUZSWi03MTkAAAGIGYJgVdjcoAalzM2EieHoyWwzRa6mPP0v9KLFgVUzTWZcpU_s5CMQmXo0KGvyYNyMoezpBr1385ODFT28w4sxelWCcG4mt4uLJWc756TSh9NjNA#commentsJump

    Such a scheme could be implemented almost immediately to relieve pressure on Acute Trusts, provide more appropriate level of care and assessment, use private sector SC to support the NHS and even save money.

    Yet we are told that the NHS is resistant to change, and refuses to innovate. The reality is that it is the Health Secretary that refuses to allow innovation.
    I’m on a scheme like that; it starter just before Christmas.
    Glad to hear it. But with 12 000 Acute beds occupied by people fit for discharge there seems plenty of scope for more of the same.
  • Options

    Very sad state of affairs.

    MPs are wearing stab vests to constituency surgeries and considering hiring private security as they fear another politician will be killed before their safety is taken seriously.

    Sir David Amess, Conservative MP for Southend West, was murdered at a constituency surgery in October 2021, prompting the promise of stronger security for MPs. Jo Cox, Labour MP for Batley & Spen, was murdered in 2016.

    However, more than a year after the death of Amess politicians feel as vulnerable as ever and believe that there will be another murder before change comes.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mps-stab-vests-security-fears-politician-killed-gg8mrsrtb

    I cannot read the paywalled article but what exactly do MPs want? Security guard or police protection would be expensive and intrusive, and might deter marginalised constituents from seeking help. Metal detectors at MPs' surgeries would not have saved Jo Cox who was murdered in the street.
    They mention stab vests, panic alarms, possibly a hired security guard (who could be in plain clothes and discreet) at surgeries, improved security of MPs' homes. Nothing is perfect, as you say, and if I was still an MP in sleepy Broxtowe I don't think I'd do all that, but it would have prevented the David Amess murder and the near-fatal attack on Stephen Timms. There would be some cost, but in this case I think the taxpayer should be willing to cough up - it's not in the public interest that good people (perhaps especially women) should be scared out of helping to run the country.
    Of course MPs should be safe but I suspect that if there were an obvious solution, it would be in place by now. Certainly cost should not be an objection.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280
    New Zealand make 449. Sounds like a decent total if they bowl well.

    Does Bazar go with some Bazball to try to get a rapid first innings lead, or will he try to bat and save the match?
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,337
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,295
    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    My initial reaction to today's header was that it'd be unfair to sack him as it's clearly a PM decision not to negotiate on pay. But that's a pretty shocking story.

    That's politics though. Part of being a Cabinet Minister is the knowledge that you might have to take one up the bugle and go when a reversal of policy is necessitated.

    Philip Schofield's Inbred Cousin might have to go if the run of appalling front pages continues and Rishi has to surrender.
    Who was that ex-RAF Tory you actually heard good things about?
    Steve "Brexit Hardman" Baker. Also likes his motorbikes. He has got a fucking GS but at least it's a bike.

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280
    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    My initial reaction to today's header was that it'd be unfair to sack him as it's clearly a PM decision not to negotiate on pay. But that's a pretty shocking story.

    That's politics though. Part of being a Cabinet Minister is the knowledge that you might have to take one up the bugle and go when a reversal of policy is necessitated.

    Philip Schofield's Inbred Cousin might have to go if the run of appalling front pages continues and Rishi has to surrender.
    Who was that ex-RAF Tory you actually heard good things about?
    Steve "Brexit Hardman" Baker. Also likes his motorbikes. He has got a fucking GS but at least it's a bike.

    Knew it was Steve B something. Why do they have two people with such similar names? Very irritating of them.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,046
    AlistairM said:

    murali_s said:

    Question for the day - Does anything work in this Tory f*cked country?

    All this talk about the halfwit Barclay but what about the Tory cretin running Transport?

    Just wait until Labour win the election. Unions know they will have them over a barrel. Only once in most people's lifetime have Labour taken over power in a general election. In 1997 they were gifted a golden economic legacy that they could splurge. This time it will be very different.
    The front page of the FT is a long wait about the UK’s sickly status. However, it is noticeable that none of the economists quoted has any suggestion of a remedy

    I struggle to see what Labour will do, other than move much closer to the EU
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,877

    Very sad state of affairs.

    MPs are wearing stab vests to constituency surgeries and considering hiring private security as they fear another politician will be killed before their safety is taken seriously.

    Sir David Amess, Conservative MP for Southend West, was murdered at a constituency surgery in October 2021, prompting the promise of stronger security for MPs. Jo Cox, Labour MP for Batley & Spen, was murdered in 2016.

    However, more than a year after the death of Amess politicians feel as vulnerable as ever and believe that there will be another murder before change comes.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mps-stab-vests-security-fears-politician-killed-gg8mrsrtb

    I cannot read the paywalled article but what exactly do MPs want? Security guard or police protection would be expensive and intrusive, and might deter marginalised constituents from seeking help. Metal detectors at MPs' surgeries would not have saved Jo Cox who was murdered in the street.
    They mention stab vests, panic alarms, possibly a hired security guard (who could be in plain clothes and discreet) at surgeries, improved security of MPs' homes. Nothing is perfect, as you say, and if I was still an MP in sleepy Broxtowe I don't think I'd do all that, but it would have prevented the David Amess murder and the near-fatal attack on Stephen Timms. There would be some cost, but in this case I think the taxpayer should be willing to cough up - it's not in the public interest that good people (perhaps especially women) should be scared out of helping to run the country.
    Of course MPs should be safe but I suspect that if there were an obvious solution, it would be in place by now. Certainly cost should not be an objection.
    Why shouldn't cost be an objection? Hundreds of people are dying now, and cost seems to be a big part of the objection to putting this right.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,517
    Foxy said:

    In November the Discharge to Assess scheme was refused by Barclay, despite the DHSC report calculating the savings to the NHS as £7 Billion over the coming years.

    This was a scheme where the NHS funded Social Care for up to six weeks, thereby freeing up acute hospital beds. During this six week period an assessment would be made as to whether a package of home care, or residential care was needed. It was used during the pandemic, including by my Mother in Law.

    Such a scheme would have freed up beds in Acute Trusts, creating beds for admissions and getting patients out of ambulances on forecourts. It would have saved both money and lives.

    https://www.hsj.co.uk/finance-and-efficiency/discharge-reform-could-save-nhs-7bn-claims-dhsc/7033675.article?mkt_tok=OTM2LUZSWi03MTkAAAGIGYJgVdjcoAalzM2EieHoyWwzRa6mPP0v9KLFgVUzTWZcpU_s5CMQmXo0KGvyYNyMoezpBr1385ODFT28w4sxelWCcG4mt4uLJWc756TSh9NjNA#commentsJump

    Sounds like he is following classic Health department policy - which is, under no account, allow NHS budget to be used on anything other than direct medical stuff.

    It’s the downside of departments - they live for their budgets.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,337
    Leon said:

    The front page of the FT is a long wait about the UK’s sickly status. However, it is noticeable that none of the economists quoted has any suggestion of a remedy

    I struggle to see what Labour will do, other than move much closer to the EU

    Hmmm.

    The problem was caused by Brexit.

    I wonder if your favourite chatbot can suggest ANY remedy at all...
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,848

    murali_s said:

    Question for the day - Does anything work in this Tory f*cked country?

    All this talk about the halfwit Barclay but what about the Tory cretin running Transport?

    The DfT (driven by the Treasury) want to heavily cut rail spending. Which means cutting services significantly vs pre-Covid levels. Various operators annoyingly found themselves back to pre-Covid (despite ministers saying much less) so implement plan B.

    Deliberately make the railways unusable, especially in the north. Passengers stop using it, ministers can pull money AND cut the obviously unnecessary Northern Powerhouse Rail.

    Remember to vote Conservative in the Red Wall.
    The really embarrassing bit for the Tories is that on the lines that are running at pre-Covid levels (ECML and the open access companies on that route) passengers numbers are running at 110% of pre-covid levels.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,932
    IanB2 said:

    Here comes the sun, eleven seconds earlier than yesterday

    Never heard that Eurythmics song.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,517
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    In November the Discharge to Assess scheme was refused by Barclay, despite the DHSC report calculating the savings to the NHS as £7 Billion over the coming years.

    This was a scheme where the NHS funded Social Care for up to six weeks, thereby freeing up acute hospital beds. During this six week period an assessment would be made as to whether a package of home care, or residential care was needed. It was used during the pandemic, including by my Mother in Law.

    Such a scheme would have freed up beds in Acute Trusts, creating beds for admissions and getting patients out of ambulances on forecourts. It would have saved both money and lives.

    https://www.hsj.co.uk/finance-and-efficiency/discharge-reform-could-save-nhs-7bn-claims-dhsc/7033675.article?mkt_tok=OTM2LUZSWi03MTkAAAGIGYJgVdjcoAalzM2EieHoyWwzRa6mPP0v9KLFgVUzTWZcpU_s5CMQmXo0KGvyYNyMoezpBr1385ODFT28w4sxelWCcG4mt4uLJWc756TSh9NjNA#commentsJump

    Such a scheme could be implemented almost immediately to relieve pressure on Acute Trusts, provide more appropriate level of care and assessment, use private sector SC to support the NHS and even save money.

    Yet we are told that the NHS is resistant to change, and refuses to innovate. The reality is that it is the Health Secretary that refuses to allow innovation.
    Getting the Minister to do the departments bidding is step 0 in department politics.

    Get rid of him. Once he’s become the departments creature, there will be no change.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,848
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    The front page of the FT is a long wait about the UK’s sickly status. However, it is noticeable that none of the economists quoted has any suggestion of a remedy

    I struggle to see what Labour will do, other than move much closer to the EU

    Hmmm.

    The problem was caused by Brexit.

    I wonder if your favourite chatbot can suggest ANY remedy at all...
    Nope - the problem is Brexit and the utterly insane methodology used by the Treasury when it comes to decision making.

    Most of which can be traced back to one George Osbourne and his "Austerity".
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,871
    Classic politician, politicking.

    https://twitter.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1609831360507662336

    Great, laudable aim, the public will I am sure support this.

    BUT - how will this be achieved in practice? Expanding current medical schools? New schools? Who will provide the training?

    Like many a popular opposition facing a very unpopular government I suspect detail will be very, very light, and promises will not have any details.

    I want a labour government, and as soon as possible, but I want more detail.

    (And I know this is a tweet, but does anyone truly expect Reeves would have the answers to my questions?)
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,517
    IanB2 said:

    Very sad state of affairs.

    MPs are wearing stab vests to constituency surgeries and considering hiring private security as they fear another politician will be killed before their safety is taken seriously.

    Sir David Amess, Conservative MP for Southend West, was murdered at a constituency surgery in October 2021, prompting the promise of stronger security for MPs. Jo Cox, Labour MP for Batley & Spen, was murdered in 2016.

    However, more than a year after the death of Amess politicians feel as vulnerable as ever and believe that there will be another murder before change comes.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mps-stab-vests-security-fears-politician-killed-gg8mrsrtb

    I cannot read the paywalled article but what exactly do MPs want? Security guard or police protection would be expensive and intrusive, and might deter marginalised constituents from seeking help. Metal detectors at MPs' surgeries would not have saved Jo Cox who was murdered in the street.
    They mention stab vests, panic alarms, possibly a hired security guard (who could be in plain clothes and discreet) at surgeries, improved security of MPs' homes. Nothing is perfect, as you say, and if I was still an MP in sleepy Broxtowe I don't think I'd do all that, but it would have prevented the David Amess murder and the near-fatal attack on Stephen Timms. There would be some cost, but in this case I think the taxpayer should be willing to cough up - it's not in the public interest that good people (perhaps especially women) should be scared out of helping to run the country.
    Of course MPs should be safe but I suspect that if there were an obvious solution, it would be in place by now. Certainly cost should not be an objection.
    Why shouldn't cost be an objection? Hundreds of people are dying now, and cost seems to be a big part of the objection to putting this right.
    Give every MP a personal protective weapon.

    If the government giving guns to ex-terrorists is the solution for *them*…
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,046
    edited January 2023
    Ah. Great

    “Are Vaccines Fueling New Covid Variants?

    The virus appears to be evolving in ways that evade immunity.”

    “Growing evidence also suggests that repeated vaccinations may make people more susceptible to XBB and could be fueling the virus’s rapid evolution.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/are-vaccines-fueling-new-covid-variants-xbb-northeast-antibodies-mutation-strain-immune-imprinting-11672483618
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,517
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    The front page of the FT is a long wait about the UK’s sickly status. However, it is noticeable that none of the economists quoted has any suggestion of a remedy

    I struggle to see what Labour will do, other than move much closer to the EU

    Hmmm.

    The problem was caused by Brexit.

    I wonder if your favourite chatbot can suggest ANY remedy at all...
    Nope - the problem is Brexit and the utterly insane methodology used by the Treasury when it comes to decision making.

    Most of which can be traced back to one George Osbourne and his "Austerity".
    The London centric metrics used by the Treasury date from before I was born. Heseltine used to rail against them.
  • Options
    eek said:

    murali_s said:

    Question for the day - Does anything work in this Tory f*cked country?

    All this talk about the halfwit Barclay but what about the Tory cretin running Transport?

    The DfT (driven by the Treasury) want to heavily cut rail spending. Which means cutting services significantly vs pre-Covid levels. Various operators annoyingly found themselves back to pre-Covid (despite ministers saying much less) so implement plan B.

    Deliberately make the railways unusable, especially in the north. Passengers stop using it, ministers can pull money AND cut the obviously unnecessary Northern Powerhouse Rail.

    Remember to vote Conservative in the Red Wall.
    The really embarrassing bit for the Tories is that on the lines that are running at pre-Covid levels (ECML and the open access companies on that route) passengers numbers are running at 110% of pre-covid levels.
    LNER do a good job and have been pretty enterprising with fares to stay ahead of Lumo / Grand Central. They remain capacity constrained because they can only keep a small number of their old trains (cost cutting by the DfT) so they will struggle if passenger numbers keep growing.

    Elsewhere in the north its basically a write-off. Avanti and TransPennine Express have largely given up, Northern are painfully unreliable. And they are unremittingly stupid / mendacious with their approach (Avanti have been leaving pax for places like Penrith stranded for hours by refusing to add stops to their trains still running and instead telling their passengers to catch TPE - which have been cancelled.

    Travel between Liverpool / Manchester / Leeds / Sheffield has become a lottery. A brilliant way to remove passengers in large numbers so as to say "oh look, no demand, we can cancel what's left of NPR and other projects".

    I could understand if if the replacement plan was "build more roads". At least Ernest "I own the company building the motorways" Marples was transparent in his plan. But the Tories aren't even building or improving the roads. So we just get more hours lost in frustrating travel and the economy shrinks that little bit more.

    Whither Growth? They are the worst capitalists since Gerald Ratner.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    The front page of the FT is a long wait about the UK’s sickly status. However, it is noticeable that none of the economists quoted has any suggestion of a remedy

    I struggle to see what Labour will do, other than move much closer to the EU

    Hmmm.

    The problem was caused by Brexit.

    I wonder if your favourite chatbot can suggest ANY remedy at all...
    Nope - the problem is Brexit and the utterly insane methodology used by the Treasury when it comes to decision making.

    Most of which can be traced back to one George Osbourne and his "Austerity".
    The London centric metrics used by the Treasury date from before I was born. Heseltine used to rail against them.
    Was that classic rail or HS?
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,337
    Any Tory MP who gets the support of 15% of their colleagues should be able to run for the party leadership, a pressure group packed with Boris Johnson supporters has said https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/02/boris-johnson-allies-seek-smoother-road-future-tory-leadership/

    The move would increase the chances of Johnson making a comeback as Tory leader.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,595

    Classic politician, politicking.

    https://twitter.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1609831360507662336

    Great, laudable aim, the public will I am sure support this.

    BUT - how will this be achieved in practice? Expanding current medical schools? New schools? Who will provide the training?

    Like many a popular opposition facing a very unpopular government I suspect detail will be very, very light, and promises will not have any details.

    I want a labour government, and as soon as possible, but I want more detail.

    (And I know this is a tweet, but does anyone truly expect Reeves would have the answers to my questions?)

    Reeves is one of the least impressive Labour politicians. She is routinely made to look a fool by presenters of breakfast radio, as I've mentioned many times before.

    Any bloody idiot can point out the problems in the country, but it will be a very long wait before you hear someone with some good answers. If you think that the NHS can be fixed by more bodies (which is fundamentally probably not the real problem) paid for by ending non-dom status (good luck with that) you are likely to be disappointed. The issues with the NHS run much deeper that a mere problem with capacity, and we need a root and branch look at taxation (NI, business rates, wealth taxes) as well as GROWING THE BLOODY ECONOMY to pay for things.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,460
    eek said:

    murali_s said:

    Question for the day - Does anything work in this Tory f*cked country?

    All this talk about the halfwit Barclay but what about the Tory cretin running Transport?

    The DfT (driven by the Treasury) want to heavily cut rail spending. Which means cutting services significantly vs pre-Covid levels. Various operators annoyingly found themselves back to pre-Covid (despite ministers saying much less) so implement plan B.

    Deliberately make the railways unusable, especially in the north. Passengers stop using it, ministers can pull money AND cut the obviously unnecessary Northern Powerhouse Rail.

    Remember to vote Conservative in the Red Wall.
    The really embarrassing bit for the Tories is that on the lines that are running at pre-Covid levels (ECML and the open access companies on that route) passengers numbers are running at 110% of pre-covid levels.
    The LNER journey numbers are probably a bit inflated by the rise in split ticketing, but they're close to 100% on passenger km. But running a full train service does make a difference.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,517
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    The front page of the FT is a long wait about the UK’s sickly status. However, it is noticeable that none of the economists quoted has any suggestion of a remedy

    I struggle to see what Labour will do, other than move much closer to the EU

    Hmmm.

    The problem was caused by Brexit.

    I wonder if your favourite chatbot can suggest ANY remedy at all...
    Nope - the problem is Brexit and the utterly insane methodology used by the Treasury when it comes to decision making.

    Most of which can be traced back to one George Osbourne and his "Austerity".
    The London centric metrics used by the Treasury date from before I was born. Heseltine used to rail against them.
    Was that classic rail or HS?
    He bought his own track, probably.

    Unlike Proper Tories, who inherited 7 foot guage from Brunel….
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,046
    PICTURE QUIZ

    Where’s this?


  • Options
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    The front page of the FT is a long wait about the UK’s sickly status. However, it is noticeable that none of the economists quoted has any suggestion of a remedy

    I struggle to see what Labour will do, other than move much closer to the EU

    Hmmm.

    The problem was caused by Brexit.

    I wonder if your favourite chatbot can suggest ANY remedy at all...
    Nope - the problem is Brexit and the utterly insane methodology used by the Treasury when it comes to decision making.

    Most of which can be traced back to one George Osbourne and his "Austerity".
    One of the challenges Britain has is that
    we haven't really had a Painful Epic Fail as a nation in collective memory - maybe ever. Most of continental Europe has (except Switzerland). Either World War 2 or holding on to authoritarian dictatorships far longer than was dignified.

    Whilst there have been screwups (and this feels like one) they have been of the "bumble on and hope for the best" type. So where's the motion to eat some humble pie as a nation, even if it's the right thing to do? Because I'd rather that the National Fail didn't get to the Epic stage.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,871
    Leon said:

    Ah. Great

    “Are Vaccines Fueling New Covid Variants?

    The virus appears to be evolving in ways that evade immunity.”

    “Growing evidence also suggests that repeated vaccinations may make people more susceptible to XBB and could be fueling the virus’s rapid evolution.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/are-vaccines-fueling-new-covid-variants-xbb-northeast-antibodies-mutation-strain-immune-imprinting-11672483618

    And BRACE for Leon’s covid wobble day.

    Actually, if you think about it, vaccines are of course driving viral evolution. It’s a classic genetic pressure.
    However, viruses are not ‘super-heroes’, they cannot explore an infinite variety of mutation, at least mot withou potential costs. So in order to overcome vaccine induced immunity, often a mutation will arise that allows this, but may have consequences elsewhere.

    It’s also important to to mistake a new variant taking over for it somehow being more dangerous and virulent than any other variant. As a wave of one variant goes through it runs out of people to infect, and the next wave is driven by a new variant that has some abiliy to evade the existing community immunity.

    Note, this does not mean evading the whole immune response - no variant has come close to that - rather it is the neutralising antibody response.

    There is a lot of wibbling in places, notably the US, about XB1.5 (or whatever the exact designation is), but little scientific concern. It’s mostly the media, as ever, failing to understand science.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,337
    glw said:

    The issues with the NHS run much deeper that a mere problem with capacity, and we need a root and branch look at taxation (NI, business rates, wealth taxes) as well as GROWING THE BLOODY ECONOMY to pay for things.

    They need to talk about the thing that has shrunk the economy (and it's not Covid)
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,046

    Leon said:

    Ah. Great

    “Are Vaccines Fueling New Covid Variants?

    The virus appears to be evolving in ways that evade immunity.”

    “Growing evidence also suggests that repeated vaccinations may make people more susceptible to XBB and could be fueling the virus’s rapid evolution.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/are-vaccines-fueling-new-covid-variants-xbb-northeast-antibodies-mutation-strain-immune-imprinting-11672483618

    And BRACE for Leon’s covid wobble day.

    Actually, if you think about it, vaccines are of course driving viral evolution. It’s a classic genetic pressure.
    However, viruses are not ‘super-heroes’, they cannot explore an infinite variety of mutation, at least mot withou potential costs. So in order to overcome vaccine induced immunity, often a mutation will arise that allows this, but may have consequences elsewhere.

    It’s also important to to mistake a new variant taking over for it somehow being more dangerous and virulent than any other variant. As a wave of one variant goes through it runs out of people to infect, and the next wave is driven by a new variant that has some abiliy to evade the existing community immunity.

    Note, this does not mean evading the whole immune response - no variant has come close to that - rather it is the neutralising antibody response.

    There is a lot of wibbling in places, notably the US, about XB1.5 (or whatever the exact designation is), but little scientific concern. It’s mostly the media, as ever, failing to understand science.
    No that’s not true. There is genuine concern that XBB15 might be a sinister development. It has characteristics that suggest it might cause more Long Covid than prior variants. It attacks cells everywhere. It is insanely infectious

    “A very important and informative thread about why the Omicron XBB.1.5 subvariant is now dominating in the Northeast US and is expected to spread. Please protect yourselves and others by wearing N95 masks. I am truly concerned about the #longCOVID wave that follows this infection.”

    https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1609928349551403010?s=46&t=_dzvZoVfbQepKY0z_cSdTQ

    No need for panic. But concern? Yes
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    The front page of the FT is a long wait about the UK’s sickly status. However, it is noticeable that none of the economists quoted has any suggestion of a remedy

    I struggle to see what Labour will do, other than move much closer to the EU

    Hmmm.

    The problem was caused by Brexit.

    I wonder if your favourite chatbot can suggest ANY remedy at all...
    Nope - the problem is Brexit and the utterly insane methodology used by the Treasury when it comes to decision making.

    Most of which can be traced back to one George Osbourne and his "Austerity".
    The London centric metrics used by the Treasury date from before I was born. Heseltine used to rail against them.
    Was that classic rail or HS?
    He bought his own track, probably.

    Unlike Proper Tories, who inherited 7 foot guage from Brunel….
    Brunel was an immigrant's son. If they took 7 foot it would be from Daniel Gooch (MP for Cricklade but never actually spoke in the Commons, using it just because it had excellent dining facilities).

    However, they would have been more likely to go with Robert Stephenson (Tory MP for Whitby) and the standard gauge. In fact, they did...
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,527
    edited January 2023
    Still utterly mystified by the lack of chat or publicity about the £2 maximum single bus fares.
    It's cut the price of the longest journeys by 80%.
    To go into Toon is 1/3 of the price it was last week for me.
    Yet I'm having to tell even frequent bus users of its existence. Why?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280
    Henry and Ajaz are continuing to enjoy themselves...
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,046

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    The front page of the FT is a long wait about the UK’s sickly status. However, it is noticeable that none of the economists quoted has any suggestion of a remedy

    I struggle to see what Labour will do, other than move much closer to the EU

    Hmmm.

    The problem was caused by Brexit.

    I wonder if your favourite chatbot can suggest ANY remedy at all...
    Nope - the problem is Brexit and the utterly insane methodology used by the Treasury when it comes to decision making.

    Most of which can be traced back to one George Osbourne and his "Austerity".
    One of the challenges Britain has is that
    we haven't really had a Painful Epic Fail as a nation in collective memory - maybe ever. Most of continental Europe has (except Switzerland). Either World War 2 or holding on to authoritarian dictatorships far longer than was dignified.

    Whilst there have been screwups (and this feels like one) they have been of the "bumble on and hope for the best" type. So where's the motion to eat some humble pie as a nation, even if it's the right thing to do? Because I'd rather that the National Fail didn't get to the Epic stage.
    Suez and the IMF-bailout in the 70s are probably the closest. The first led to the End of Empire, the second led to Thatcher

    I agree the current malaise has a similar flavour to those. Hopefully it leads to Thatcher 2.0 and we don’t need a full on Nazi Invasion to stoke national renewal
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280
    dixiedean said:

    Still utterly mystified by the lack of chat or publicity about the £2 maximum single bus fares.
    It's cut the price of the longest journeys by 80%.
    To go into Toon is 1/3 of the price it was last week for me.
    Yet I'm having to tell even frequent bus users of its existence. Why?

    Because even frequent users of buses don't usually care about them. They're just there.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,517
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    The front page of the FT is a long wait about the UK’s sickly status. However, it is noticeable that none of the economists quoted has any suggestion of a remedy

    I struggle to see what Labour will do, other than move much closer to the EU

    Hmmm.

    The problem was caused by Brexit.

    I wonder if your favourite chatbot can suggest ANY remedy at all...
    Nope - the problem is Brexit and the utterly insane methodology used by the Treasury when it comes to decision making.

    Most of which can be traced back to one George Osbourne and his "Austerity".
    The London centric metrics used by the Treasury date from before I was born. Heseltine used to rail against them.
    Was that classic rail or HS?
    He bought his own track, probably.

    Unlike Proper Tories, who inherited 7 foot guage from Brunel….
    Brunel was an immigrant's son. If they took 7 foot it would be from Daniel Gooch (MP for Cricklade but never actually spoke in the Commons, using it just because it had excellent dining facilities).

    However, they would have been more likely to go with Robert Stephenson (Tory MP for Whitby) and the standard gauge. In fact, they did...
    Gooch came from…. Trade

    In fact it was only when Brunel (an epic snob) utterly cocked up the first generation of Broad guage locos that he turned to Gooch out of desperation.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,871
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ah. Great

    “Are Vaccines Fueling New Covid Variants?

    The virus appears to be evolving in ways that evade immunity.”

    “Growing evidence also suggests that repeated vaccinations may make people more susceptible to XBB and could be fueling the virus’s rapid evolution.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/are-vaccines-fueling-new-covid-variants-xbb-northeast-antibodies-mutation-strain-immune-imprinting-11672483618

    And BRACE for Leon’s covid wobble day.

    Actually, if you think about it, vaccines are of course driving viral evolution. It’s a classic genetic pressure.
    However, viruses are not ‘super-heroes’, they cannot explore an infinite variety of mutation, at least mot withou potential costs. So in order to overcome vaccine induced immunity, often a mutation will arise that allows this, but may have consequences elsewhere.

    It’s also important to to mistake a new variant taking over for it somehow being more dangerous and virulent than any other variant. As a wave of one variant goes through it runs out of people to infect, and the next wave is driven by a new variant that has some abiliy to evade the existing community immunity.

    Note, this does not mean evading the whole immune response - no variant has come close to that - rather it is the neutralising antibody response.

    There is a lot of wibbling in places, notably the US, about XB1.5 (or whatever the exact designation is), but little scientific concern. It’s mostly the media, as ever, failing to understand science.
    No that’s not true. There is genuine concern that XBB15 might be a sinister development. It has characteristics that suggest it might cause more Long Covid than prior variants. It attacks cells everywhere. It is insanely infectious

    “A very important and informative thread about why the Omicron XBB.1.5 subvariant is now dominating in the Northeast US and is expected to spread. Please protect yourselves and others by wearing N95 masks. I am truly concerned about the #longCOVID wave that follows this infection.”

    https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1609928349551403010?s=46&t=_dzvZoVfbQepKY0z_cSdTQ

    No need for panic. But concern? Yes
    That’s one poster on twitter. I have taken the time to read around, and there is little concern about this. Even the exaggerated growth rate in the U.K. (up 4% in a week) is likely down to limited data, that was rpthen updated to be more like 0.1%).

    Waving long covid about is the same as the idiots who think that every covid infection is like playing Russian Roulette with long covid. There is no evidence that that is the case.

    There has been a recent study which suggests in some patients covid spreads quite widely through the body, and it’s possible that this may act as a reservoir for recurrent illness. However we don’t really have a definition of long covid, and it means different things to different people.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,517

    Leon said:

    Ah. Great

    “Are Vaccines Fueling New Covid Variants?

    The virus appears to be evolving in ways that evade immunity.”

    “Growing evidence also suggests that repeated vaccinations may make people more susceptible to XBB and could be fueling the virus’s rapid evolution.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/are-vaccines-fueling-new-covid-variants-xbb-northeast-antibodies-mutation-strain-immune-imprinting-11672483618

    And BRACE for Leon’s covid wobble day.

    Actually, if you think about it, vaccines are of course driving viral evolution. It’s a classic genetic pressure.
    However, viruses are not ‘super-heroes’, they cannot explore an infinite variety of mutation, at least mot withou potential costs. So in order to overcome vaccine induced immunity, often a mutation will arise that allows this, but may have consequences elsewhere.

    It’s also important to to mistake a new variant taking over for it somehow being more dangerous and virulent than any other variant. As a wave of one variant goes through it runs out of people to infect, and the next wave is driven by a new variant that has some abiliy to evade the existing community immunity.

    Note, this does not mean evading the whole immune response - no variant has come close to that - rather it is the neutralising antibody response.

    There is a lot of wibbling in places, notably the US, about XB1.5 (or whatever the exact designation is), but little scientific concern. It’s mostly the media, as ever, failing to understand science.
    https://www.epsilontheory.com/gell-mann-amnesia/
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,423
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still utterly mystified by the lack of chat or publicity about the £2 maximum single bus fares.
    It's cut the price of the longest journeys by 80%.
    To go into Toon is 1/3 of the price it was last week for me.
    Yet I'm having to tell even frequent bus users of its existence. Why?

    Because even frequent users of buses don't usually care about them. They're just there.
    Makes no odds to me. Free bus pass..
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,945
    edited January 2023
    ydoethur said:

    Henry and Ajaz are continuing to enjoy themselves...

    Masood seems to be wanting a transfer to the English team. Has he misunderstood the January window?
    Edit. Well, perhaps not.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,046

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ah. Great

    “Are Vaccines Fueling New Covid Variants?

    The virus appears to be evolving in ways that evade immunity.”

    “Growing evidence also suggests that repeated vaccinations may make people more susceptible to XBB and could be fueling the virus’s rapid evolution.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/are-vaccines-fueling-new-covid-variants-xbb-northeast-antibodies-mutation-strain-immune-imprinting-11672483618

    And BRACE for Leon’s covid wobble day.

    Actually, if you think about it, vaccines are of course driving viral evolution. It’s a classic genetic pressure.
    However, viruses are not ‘super-heroes’, they cannot explore an infinite variety of mutation, at least mot withou potential costs. So in order to overcome vaccine induced immunity, often a mutation will arise that allows this, but may have consequences elsewhere.

    It’s also important to to mistake a new variant taking over for it somehow being more dangerous and virulent than any other variant. As a wave of one variant goes through it runs out of people to infect, and the next wave is driven by a new variant that has some abiliy to evade the existing community immunity.

    Note, this does not mean evading the whole immune response - no variant has come close to that - rather it is the neutralising antibody response.

    There is a lot of wibbling in places, notably the US, about XB1.5 (or whatever the exact designation is), but little scientific concern. It’s mostly the media, as ever, failing to understand science.
    No that’s not true. There is genuine concern that XBB15 might be a sinister development. It has characteristics that suggest it might cause more Long Covid than prior variants. It attacks cells everywhere. It is insanely infectious

    “A very important and informative thread about why the Omicron XBB.1.5 subvariant is now dominating in the Northeast US and is expected to spread. Please protect yourselves and others by wearing N95 masks. I am truly concerned about the #longCOVID wave that follows this infection.”

    https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1609928349551403010?s=46&t=_dzvZoVfbQepKY0z_cSdTQ

    No need for panic. But concern? Yes
    That’s one poster on twitter. I have taken the time to read around, and there is little concern about this. Even the exaggerated growth rate in the U.K. (up 4% in a week) is likely down to limited data, that was rpthen updated to be more like 0.1%).

    Waving long covid about is the same as the idiots who think that every covid infection is like playing Russian Roulette with long covid. There is no evidence that that is the case.

    There has been a recent study which suggests in some patients covid spreads quite widely through the body, and it’s possible that this may act as a reservoir for recurrent illness. However we don’t really have a definition of long covid, and it means different things to different people.
    Er, she’s head of a lab at Yale School of Medicine which specifically studies Long Covid. The guy she’s quoting is a Harvard Phd and Peking Uni professor. They aren’t “randoms on Twitter”
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,517
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still utterly mystified by the lack of chat or publicity about the £2 maximum single bus fares.
    It's cut the price of the longest journeys by 80%.
    To go into Toon is 1/3 of the price it was last week for me.
    Yet I'm having to tell even frequent bus users of its existence. Why?

    Because even frequent users of buses don't usually care about them. They're just there.
    In London, the buses are fully cash less.

    This means that almost no-one knows the fares. There was a survey about this a while back….

    Since the universe only exists in London, no journalist* will have noticed anything.

    *who is anyone
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,932
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    The front page of the FT is a long wait about the UK’s sickly status. However, it is noticeable that none of the economists quoted has any suggestion of a remedy

    I struggle to see what Labour will do, other than move much closer to the EU

    Hmmm.

    The problem was caused by Brexit.

    I wonder if your favourite chatbot can suggest ANY remedy at all...
    Nope - the problem is Brexit and the utterly insane methodology used by the Treasury when it comes to decision making.

    Most of which can be traced back to one George Osbourne and his "Austerity".
    The London centric metrics used by the Treasury date from before I was born. Heseltine used to rail against them.
    Was that classic rail or HS?
    He bought his own track, probably.

    Unlike Proper Tories, who inherited 7 foot guage from Brunel….
    Brunel was an immigrant's son. If they took 7 foot it would be from Daniel Gooch (MP for Cricklade but never actually spoke in the Commons, using it just because it had excellent dining facilities).

    However, they would have been more likely to go with Robert Stephenson (Tory MP for Whitby) and the standard gauge. In fact, they did...
    To be true pb.com you've got to weave Brexit into this somehow.

    Come on, try harder.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,871
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ah. Great

    “Are Vaccines Fueling New Covid Variants?

    The virus appears to be evolving in ways that evade immunity.”

    “Growing evidence also suggests that repeated vaccinations may make people more susceptible to XBB and could be fueling the virus’s rapid evolution.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/are-vaccines-fueling-new-covid-variants-xbb-northeast-antibodies-mutation-strain-immune-imprinting-11672483618

    And BRACE for Leon’s covid wobble day.

    Actually, if you think about it, vaccines are of course driving viral evolution. It’s a classic genetic pressure.
    However, viruses are not ‘super-heroes’, they cannot explore an infinite variety of mutation, at least mot withou potential costs. So in order to overcome vaccine induced immunity, often a mutation will arise that allows this, but may have consequences elsewhere.

    It’s also important to to mistake a new variant taking over for it somehow being more dangerous and virulent than any other variant. As a wave of one variant goes through it runs out of people to infect, and the next wave is driven by a new variant that has some abiliy to evade the existing community immunity.

    Note, this does not mean evading the whole immune response - no variant has come close to that - rather it is the neutralising antibody response.

    There is a lot of wibbling in places, notably the US, about XB1.5 (or whatever the exact designation is), but little scientific concern. It’s mostly the media, as ever, failing to understand science.
    No that’s not true. There is genuine concern that XBB15 might be a sinister development. It has characteristics that suggest it might cause more Long Covid than prior variants. It attacks cells everywhere. It is insanely infectious

    “A very important and informative thread about why the Omicron XBB.1.5 subvariant is now dominating in the Northeast US and is expected to spread. Please protect yourselves and others by wearing N95 masks. I am truly concerned about the #longCOVID wave that follows this infection.”

    https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1609928349551403010?s=46&t=_dzvZoVfbQepKY0z_cSdTQ

    No need for panic. But concern? Yes
    That’s one poster on twitter. I have taken the time to read around, and there is little concern about this. Even the exaggerated growth rate in the U.K. (up 4% in a week) is likely down to limited data, that was rpthen updated to be more like 0.1%).

    Waving long covid about is the same as the idiots who think that every covid infection is like playing Russian Roulette with long covid. There is no evidence that that is the case.

    There has been a recent study which suggests in some patients covid spreads quite widely through the body, and it’s possible that this may act as a reservoir for recurrent illness. However we don’t really have a definition of long covid, and it means different things to different people.
    Er, she’s head of a lab at Yale School of Medicine which specifically studies Long Covid. The guy she’s quoting is a Harvard Phd and Peking Uni professor. They aren’t “randoms on Twitter”
    And there are plenty of other scientists who disagree. That’s the nature of science.

    Fine, you wibble all you want, but please try to balance the doom tweets with some more grounded stuff. Try @BristOliver @kallmemeg for starters.


  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,945

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ah. Great

    “Are Vaccines Fueling New Covid Variants?

    The virus appears to be evolving in ways that evade immunity.”

    “Growing evidence also suggests that repeated vaccinations may make people more susceptible to XBB and could be fueling the virus’s rapid evolution.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/are-vaccines-fueling-new-covid-variants-xbb-northeast-antibodies-mutation-strain-immune-imprinting-11672483618

    And BRACE for Leon’s covid wobble day.

    Actually, if you think about it, vaccines are of course driving viral evolution. It’s a classic genetic pressure.
    However, viruses are not ‘super-heroes’, they cannot explore an infinite variety of mutation, at least mot withou potential costs. So in order to overcome vaccine induced immunity, often a mutation will arise that allows this, but may have consequences elsewhere.

    It’s also important to to mistake a new variant taking over for it somehow being more dangerous and virulent than any other variant. As a wave of one variant goes through it runs out of people to infect, and the next wave is driven by a new variant that has some abiliy to evade the existing community immunity.

    Note, this does not mean evading the whole immune response - no variant has come close to that - rather it is the neutralising antibody response.

    There is a lot of wibbling in places, notably the US, about XB1.5 (or whatever the exact designation is), but little scientific concern. It’s mostly the media, as ever, failing to understand science.
    No that’s not true. There is genuine concern that XBB15 might be a sinister development. It has characteristics that suggest it might cause more Long Covid than prior variants. It attacks cells everywhere. It is insanely infectious

    “A very important and informative thread about why the Omicron XBB.1.5 subvariant is now dominating in the Northeast US and is expected to spread. Please protect yourselves and others by wearing N95 masks. I am truly concerned about the #longCOVID wave that follows this infection.”

    https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1609928349551403010?s=46&t=_dzvZoVfbQepKY0z_cSdTQ

    No need for panic. But concern? Yes
    That’s one poster on twitter. I have taken the time to read around, and there is little concern about this. Even the exaggerated growth rate in the U.K. (up 4% in a week) is likely down to limited data, that was rpthen updated to be more like 0.1%).

    Waving long covid about is the same as the idiots who think that every covid infection is like playing Russian Roulette with long covid. There is no evidence that that is the case.

    There has been a recent study which suggests in some patients covid spreads quite widely through the body, and it’s possible that this may act as a reservoir for recurrent illness. However we don’t really have a definition of long covid, and it means different things to different people.
    The problems we are seeing with long Covid very much remind me of the problems we had with ME. A very wide range of symptoms both in kind and severity with a significant but uncertain psychological element making diagnosis problematic.

    I do not doubt that both are very real for many people but our current models of health don't provide many answers since we don't understand how the shock of a viral infection leaves sequelae in some but not the majority or why most recover but some remain well below their previous capability. I suspect that unless we get a better grip of the causal connection between Covid and long Covid we will equally struggle for effective remedies but there is a risk that this will be significant enough to have economic impacts.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,527

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still utterly mystified by the lack of chat or publicity about the £2 maximum single bus fares.
    It's cut the price of the longest journeys by 80%.
    To go into Toon is 1/3 of the price it was last week for me.
    Yet I'm having to tell even frequent bus users of its existence. Why?

    Because even frequent users of buses don't usually care about them. They're just there.
    In London, the buses are fully cash less.

    This means that almost no-one knows the fares. There was a survey about this a while back….

    Since the universe only exists in London, no journalist* will have noticed anything.

    *who is anyone
    Bus fares are also extraordinarily cheap in London by comparison with here. The new cap is actually still above the London maximum. So probably you are right.
    They certainly aren't cashless up here.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,848
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still utterly mystified by the lack of chat or publicity about the £2 maximum single bus fares.
    It's cut the price of the longest journeys by 80%.
    To go into Toon is 1/3 of the price it was last week for me.
    Yet I'm having to tell even frequent bus users of its existence. Why?

    Because even frequent users of buses don't usually care about them. They're just there.
    In London, the buses are fully cash less.

    This means that almost no-one knows the fares. There was a survey about this a while back….

    Since the universe only exists in London, no journalist* will have noticed anything.

    *who is anyone
    Bus fares are also extraordinarily cheap in London by comparison with here. The new cap is actually still above the London maximum. So probably you are right.
    They certainly aren't cashless up here.
    It's not London though so in the mind of the national media it doesn't exist.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,108
    WillG said:

    Surprise, surprise. Turns out like the Protocol didn't need to be enforced after all.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64149139

    This was all about the EU getting its pound of flesh. Now the Tories look done for, they don't need go be so unnecessarily hardline any more.

    But it says a lot they were prepared to hurt Northern Ireland just for vengeance on the UK.

    That sound a large over-interpretation of "perhaps a little bit too strict".

    And as others have pointed out, it was negotiated by both sides. One of which was led by a grandstanding buffoon.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,141
    Something's cheering the markets today - FTSE over 7600, 250 over 19k.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still utterly mystified by the lack of chat or publicity about the £2 maximum single bus fares.
    It's cut the price of the longest journeys by 80%.
    To go into Toon is 1/3 of the price it was last week for me.
    Yet I'm having to tell even frequent bus users of its existence. Why?

    Because even frequent users of buses don't usually care about them. They're just there.
    And once you strip out the places where there's already a cap (London and some of the metros), the people who already get free travel, the people with season tickets and the companies not participating and the places with minimal buses anyway, there's quite a few holes in the scheme.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,517
    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still utterly mystified by the lack of chat or publicity about the £2 maximum single bus fares.
    It's cut the price of the longest journeys by 80%.
    To go into Toon is 1/3 of the price it was last week for me.
    Yet I'm having to tell even frequent bus users of its existence. Why?

    Because even frequent users of buses don't usually care about them. They're just there.
    In London, the buses are fully cash less.

    This means that almost no-one knows the fares. There was a survey about this a while back….

    Since the universe only exists in London, no journalist* will have noticed anything.

    *who is anyone
    Bus fares are also extraordinarily cheap in London by comparison with here. The new cap is actually still above the London maximum. So probably you are right.
    They certainly aren't cashless up here.
    It's not London though so in the mind of the national media it doesn't exist.
    Exactly.

    No one knows the fares in London because you can’t see them, by the way.

    Momentarily displayed through multiple layers of scratched plastic on an LCD display with no illumination.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    WillG said:

    Surprise, surprise. Turns out like the Protocol didn't need to be enforced after all.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64149139

    This was all about the EU getting its pound of flesh. Now the Tories look done for, they don't need go be so unnecessarily hardline any more.

    But it says a lot they were prepared to hurt Northern Ireland just for vengeance on the UK.

    That sound a large over-interpretation of "perhaps a little bit too strict".

    And as others have pointed out, it was negotiated by both sides. One of which was led by a grandstanding buffoon.
    Why not just admit the EU also got it wrong?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,871
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ah. Great

    “Are Vaccines Fueling New Covid Variants?

    The virus appears to be evolving in ways that evade immunity.”

    “Growing evidence also suggests that repeated vaccinations may make people more susceptible to XBB and could be fueling the virus’s rapid evolution.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/are-vaccines-fueling-new-covid-variants-xbb-northeast-antibodies-mutation-strain-immune-imprinting-11672483618

    And BRACE for Leon’s covid wobble day.

    Actually, if you think about it, vaccines are of course driving viral evolution. It’s a classic genetic pressure.
    However, viruses are not ‘super-heroes’, they cannot explore an infinite variety of mutation, at least mot withou potential costs. So in order to overcome vaccine induced immunity, often a mutation will arise that allows this, but may have consequences elsewhere.

    It’s also important to to mistake a new variant taking over for it somehow being more dangerous and virulent than any other variant. As a wave of one variant goes through it runs out of people to infect, and the next wave is driven by a new variant that has some abiliy to evade the existing community immunity.

    Note, this does not mean evading the whole immune response - no variant has come close to that - rather it is the neutralising antibody response.

    There is a lot of wibbling in places, notably the US, about XB1.5 (or whatever the exact designation is), but little scientific concern. It’s mostly the media, as ever, failing to understand science.
    No that’s not true. There is genuine concern that XBB15 might be a sinister development. It has characteristics that suggest it might cause more Long Covid than prior variants. It attacks cells everywhere. It is insanely infectious

    “A very important and informative thread about why the Omicron XBB.1.5 subvariant is now dominating in the Northeast US and is expected to spread. Please protect yourselves and others by wearing N95 masks. I am truly concerned about the #longCOVID wave that follows this infection.”

    https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1609928349551403010?s=46&t=_dzvZoVfbQepKY0z_cSdTQ

    No need for panic. But concern? Yes
    That’s one poster on twitter. I have taken the time to read around, and there is little concern about this. Even the exaggerated growth rate in the U.K. (up 4% in a week) is likely down to limited data, that was rpthen updated to be more like 0.1%).

    Waving long covid about is the same as the idiots who think that every covid infection is like playing Russian Roulette with long covid. There is no evidence that that is the case.

    There has been a recent study which suggests in some patients covid spreads quite widely through the body, and it’s possible that this may act as a reservoir for recurrent illness. However we don’t really have a definition of long covid, and it means different things to different people.
    The problems we are seeing with long Covid very much remind me of the problems we had with ME. A very wide range of symptoms both in kind and severity with a significant but uncertain psychological element making diagnosis problematic.

    I do not doubt that both are very real for many people but our current models of health don't provide many answers since we don't understand how the shock of a viral infection leaves sequelae in some but not the majority or why most recover but some remain well below their previous capability. I suspect that unless we get a better grip of the causal connection between Covid and long Covid we will equally struggle for effective remedies but there is a risk that this will be significant enough to have economic impacts.
    The similarity is definitely there. I believe for some long covid is an FND - a genuine condition but without physical/biological cause. Often encounter long covid stories in people who say they have not had covid or only mild infection. It’s possible something sinister is going on in their bodies, but it’s more likely the symptoms are FND based. Always have suspicions when someone says that if they do too much exercise one day they ‘know’ they will have a bad day the next day. Prediction becomes reality.
    Treatment for FND is cognitive, as with ME, but there will be a lot of patients resisting this diagnosis.

    And then there will be patients where long covid has resulted from damaged organs that will be very hard to treat. At least for these patients a physical injury can be identified.

    I think the culture of fear around covid and indeed long covid, has helped generate some of the FND type long covid travelers.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,046

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ah. Great

    “Are Vaccines Fueling New Covid Variants?

    The virus appears to be evolving in ways that evade immunity.”

    “Growing evidence also suggests that repeated vaccinations may make people more susceptible to XBB and could be fueling the virus’s rapid evolution.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/are-vaccines-fueling-new-covid-variants-xbb-northeast-antibodies-mutation-strain-immune-imprinting-11672483618

    And BRACE for Leon’s covid wobble day.

    Actually, if you think about it, vaccines are of course driving viral evolution. It’s a classic genetic pressure.
    However, viruses are not ‘super-heroes’, they cannot explore an infinite variety of mutation, at least mot withou potential costs. So in order to overcome vaccine induced immunity, often a mutation will arise that allows this, but may have consequences elsewhere.

    It’s also important to to mistake a new variant taking over for it somehow being more dangerous and virulent than any other variant. As a wave of one variant goes through it runs out of people to infect, and the next wave is driven by a new variant that has some abiliy to evade the existing community immunity.

    Note, this does not mean evading the whole immune response - no variant has come close to that - rather it is the neutralising antibody response.

    There is a lot of wibbling in places, notably the US, about XB1.5 (or whatever the exact designation is), but little scientific concern. It’s mostly the media, as ever, failing to understand science.
    No that’s not true. There is genuine concern that XBB15 might be a sinister development. It has characteristics that suggest it might cause more Long Covid than prior variants. It attacks cells everywhere. It is insanely infectious

    “A very important and informative thread about why the Omicron XBB.1.5 subvariant is now dominating in the Northeast US and is expected to spread. Please protect yourselves and others by wearing N95 masks. I am truly concerned about the #longCOVID wave that follows this infection.”

    https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1609928349551403010?s=46&t=_dzvZoVfbQepKY0z_cSdTQ

    No need for panic. But concern? Yes
    That’s one poster on twitter. I have taken the time to read around, and there is little concern about this. Even the exaggerated growth rate in the U.K. (up 4% in a week) is likely down to limited data, that was rpthen updated to be more like 0.1%).

    Waving long covid about is the same as the idiots who think that every covid infection is like playing Russian Roulette with long covid. There is no evidence that that is the case.

    There has been a recent study which suggests in some patients covid spreads quite widely through the body, and it’s possible that this may act as a reservoir for recurrent illness. However we don’t really have a definition of long covid, and it means different things to different people.
    Er, she’s head of a lab at Yale School of Medicine which specifically studies Long Covid. The guy she’s quoting is a Harvard Phd and Peking Uni professor. They aren’t “randoms on Twitter”
    And there are plenty of other scientists who disagree. That’s the nature of science.

    Fine, you wibble all you want, but please try to balance the doom tweets with some more grounded stuff. Try @BristOliver @kallmemeg for starters.


    You’re projecting

    I’m not “wibbling”. I explicitly said this is NOT a reason to panic, but it IS a cause for concern. I’m right


  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Still utterly mystified by the lack of chat or publicity about the £2 maximum single bus fares.
    It's cut the price of the longest journeys by 80%.
    To go into Toon is 1/3 of the price it was last week for me.
    Yet I'm having to tell even frequent bus users of its existence. Why?

    Because even frequent users of buses don't usually care about them. They're just there.
    In London, the buses are fully cash less.

    This means that almost no-one knows the fares. There was a survey about this a while back….

    Since the universe only exists in London, no journalist* will have noticed anything.

    *who is anyone
    Buses in London cost less than £2 anyway. Plus there's the Hopper fare, one of the few good things that Livingstone did as Mayor.
  • Options

    Classic politician, politicking.

    https://twitter.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1609831360507662336

    Great, laudable aim, the public will I am sure support this.

    BUT - how will this be achieved in practice? Expanding current medical schools? New schools? Who will provide the training?

    Like many a popular opposition facing a very unpopular government I suspect detail will be very, very light, and promises will not have any details.

    I want a labour government, and as soon as possible, but I want more detail.

    (And I know this is a tweet, but does anyone truly expect Reeves would have the answers to my questions?)

    There have been five new medical schools opened already this century so opening some more is surely not beyond imagination.

    My complaints would be that not enough is done to address poor retention but that would take more than a tweet, and I suspect the numbers are being fudged so that 7,500 new medical students should be divided by the four, five or six years they will be in training.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,871
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ah. Great

    “Are Vaccines Fueling New Covid Variants?

    The virus appears to be evolving in ways that evade immunity.”

    “Growing evidence also suggests that repeated vaccinations may make people more susceptible to XBB and could be fueling the virus’s rapid evolution.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/are-vaccines-fueling-new-covid-variants-xbb-northeast-antibodies-mutation-strain-immune-imprinting-11672483618

    And BRACE for Leon’s covid wobble day.

    Actually, if you think about it, vaccines are of course driving viral evolution. It’s a classic genetic pressure.
    However, viruses are not ‘super-heroes’, they cannot explore an infinite variety of mutation, at least mot withou potential costs. So in order to overcome vaccine induced immunity, often a mutation will arise that allows this, but may have consequences elsewhere.

    It’s also important to to mistake a new variant taking over for it somehow being more dangerous and virulent than any other variant. As a wave of one variant goes through it runs out of people to infect, and the next wave is driven by a new variant that has some abiliy to evade the existing community immunity.

    Note, this does not mean evading the whole immune response - no variant has come close to that - rather it is the neutralising antibody response.

    There is a lot of wibbling in places, notably the US, about XB1.5 (or whatever the exact designation is), but little scientific concern. It’s mostly the media, as ever, failing to understand science.
    No that’s not true. There is genuine concern that XBB15 might be a sinister development. It has characteristics that suggest it might cause more Long Covid than prior variants. It attacks cells everywhere. It is insanely infectious

    “A very important and informative thread about why the Omicron XBB.1.5 subvariant is now dominating in the Northeast US and is expected to spread. Please protect yourselves and others by wearing N95 masks. I am truly concerned about the #longCOVID wave that follows this infection.”

    https://twitter.com/virusesimmunity/status/1609928349551403010?s=46&t=_dzvZoVfbQepKY0z_cSdTQ

    No need for panic. But concern? Yes
    That’s one poster on twitter. I have taken the time to read around, and there is little concern about this. Even the exaggerated growth rate in the U.K. (up 4% in a week) is likely down to limited data, that was rpthen updated to be more like 0.1%).

    Waving long covid about is the same as the idiots who think that every covid infection is like playing Russian Roulette with long covid. There is no evidence that that is the case.

    There has been a recent study which suggests in some patients covid spreads quite widely through the body, and it’s possible that this may act as a reservoir for recurrent illness. However we don’t really have a definition of long covid, and it means different things to different people.
    Er, she’s head of a lab at Yale School of Medicine which specifically studies Long Covid. The guy she’s quoting is a Harvard Phd and Peking Uni professor. They aren’t “randoms on Twitter”
    And there are plenty of other scientists who disagree. That’s the nature of science.

    Fine, you wibble all you want, but please try to balance the doom tweets with some more grounded stuff. Try @BristOliver @kallmemeg for starters.


    You’re projecting

    I’m not “wibbling”. I explicitly said this is NOT a reason to panic, but it IS a cause for concern. I’m right


    Perhaps wibbling is too strong. I think you often try to make bold predictions, in the hope of repeating your much discussed 2020 coup, and you have gone all in with the ‘new China variant’ story. Thus anything that backs that up, you are bringing it to the forum.

    Except of course it was @eadric who ended up in a nice Billionaires flat in Wales, not you. Maybe you think it’s your turn?😀
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,108

    Nigelb said:

    WillG said:

    Surprise, surprise. Turns out like the Protocol didn't need to be enforced after all.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64149139

    This was all about the EU getting its pound of flesh. Now the Tories look done for, they don't need go be so unnecessarily hardline any more.

    But it says a lot they were prepared to hurt Northern Ireland just for vengeance on the UK.

    That sound a large over-interpretation of "perhaps a little bit too strict".

    And as others have pointed out, it was negotiated by both sides. One of which was led by a grandstanding buffoon.
    Why not just admit the EU also got it wrong?
    Well, yes.
    That's what 'both sides' means.

    Fact is, though, that we had a decent (in comparison) deal under May, and binned it.
    That wasn't the EU.
This discussion has been closed.