We would be wise to forbid flights from China, and entry to Chinese nationals, for a few months
The Chinese gave us this virus, from their lab, they then lied about it in multiple ways, exported it around the world (quite deliberately), so let them suck on its nasty fag end, alone
How many flights from China arrive in the U.K. each day? How many extra people with covid to add to the over a million already here?
For a scientist you are alarmingly low-watt
China is basically a 1.4bn strong human petri dish, in the global lab, right now - a petri dish given the task of finding out if Covid can conjure up another dangerous vaccine evasive variant - when allowed to assault 1.4bn unprotected people in a matter of a few weeks
Hopefully China will prove that our fears are overblown, but why err on the side of generosity to Chinese tourists and visitors, given what China has done to itself and to the world, these last three years?
I swear there are people in the UK who would rather we all die, than that they might be perceived as just 5% "racist"
I'd put up a travel ban just to avoid Chinese tourists in London. The last few years have been a dream without them menacing our pavements with selfie sticks and snails pace walking speed.
It's interesting how we don't want to help the minority that go to university with their fees yet we're bending over backwards to help the minority that go to private schools!
Most universities are also classed as exempt charities in tax terms
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I think your analysis of what they did in 2020 is absolutely on the money. It’s possible you are on to something now, but I think the narrative of the Chinese watching the World Cup, realising the rest of the world is no longer doing what China is re covid and finally cracking is most likely.
Yes, I agree, which is why I used the word "rabbit-hole". I am not sure of this, just rightly cautious and suspicious
This is a time for the Precautionary Principle. China "suddenly" wants to open up, as does Hong Kong, after three years of telling us all to fuck off and stay away, following a virus THEY leaked (out of China, for sure, out of a lab, probably)? Hmmmmmm
We should politely tell them to do one, for three months. No flights from China, no Chinese nationals, until the spring, and until we know more about their exit wave. Let us take care of our own - as they did
That would require the world to do that, not just us.
We could at least start. America and Italy have now suddenly imposed tests etc
Just stop flights and introduce travel bans from China. It's not hard. They are going through an unprecedented exit wave. The risk to us is palpable
NOT doing this because we are scared of being accused of "racism" is puerile
Who is suggesting we are not doing this because racism? Only you, that I can see. If we were under Nicola Sturgeon’s benevolent dictatorship and were still trying to suppress covid then of course we would ban the flights. Happily we don’t live in a mad Scottish nationalist wet dream.
Because this was exactly the accusation aimed at Trump when he did exactly this in early 2020? Racism?
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I have to say that I share your scepticism about Xi's sudden conversion from Zero Covid to "Let's open the borders and stop all testing or other sensible precautionary measures" in 3 weeks with no preparation at all.
I assume that the Chinese government is lying about what is going on inside the country. I also assume that there will likely be new variants and that we cannot cheerfully assume that such variants will be mild and/or easily dealt with by existing vaccines.
This misses the point about most everyone in the U.K. having had covid. We are not now protected primarily by the vaccines - if you think that, you need to learn a bit more. The vaccines we had allowed us to all experience covid, and now our immune systems have seen the whole virus. That’s why we have less to fear than the Chinese, where many have not been vaccinated or experienced covid yet.
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I think your analysis of what they did in 2020 is absolutely on the money. It’s possible you are on to something now, but I think the narrative of the Chinese watching the World Cup, realising the rest of the world is no longer doing what China is re covid and finally cracking is most likely.
Yes, I agree, which is why I used the word "rabbit-hole". I am not sure of this, just rightly cautious and suspicious
This is a time for the Precautionary Principle. China "suddenly" wants to open up, as does Hong Kong, after three years of telling us all to fuck off and stay away, following a virus THEY leaked (out of China, for sure, out of a lab, probably)? Hmmmmmm
We should politely tell them to do one, for three months. No flights from China, no Chinese nationals, until the spring, and until we know more about their exit wave. Let us take care of our own - as they did
That would require the world to do that, not just us.
We could at least start. America and Italy have now suddenly imposed tests etc
Just stop flights and introduce travel bans from China. It's not hard. They are going through an unprecedented exit wave. The risk to us is palpable
NOT doing this because we are scared of being accused of "racism" is puerile
I have no issue with banning flights from China or forcing those from China to complete a negative test before entry but I can't see it would make much difference to Covid levels here.
Surely the problem in China, the reason their infections rates are so high right now, is their lack of inherent immunity because of their piss-poor vaccine half-heartedly rolled out couple with their erstwhile ultra strict lock-down policy.
Now that policy has been abruptly reversed Covid has let rip.
None of that reduces the inherent relatively high-levels of immunity here. We have nothing to fear.
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I think your analysis of what they did in 2020 is absolutely on the money. It’s possible you are on to something now, but I think the narrative of the Chinese watching the World Cup, realising the rest of the world is no longer doing what China is re covid and finally cracking is most likely.
Yes, I agree, which is why I used the word "rabbit-hole". I am not sure of this, just rightly cautious and suspicious
This is a time for the Precautionary Principle. China "suddenly" wants to open up, as does Hong Kong, after three years of telling us all to fuck off and stay away, following a virus THEY leaked (out of China, for sure, out of a lab, probably)? Hmmmmmm
We should politely tell them to do one, for three months. No flights from China, no Chinese nationals, until the spring, and until we know more about their exit wave. Let us take care of our own - as they did
That would require the world to do that, not just us.
We could at least start. America and Italy have now suddenly imposed tests etc
Just stop flights and introduce travel bans from China. It's not hard. They are going through an unprecedented exit wave. The risk to us is palpable
NOT doing this because we are scared of being accused of "racism" is puerile
Who is suggesting we are not doing this because racism? Only you, that I can see. If we were under Nicola Sturgeon’s benevolent dictatorship and were still trying to suppress covid then of course we would ban the flights. Happily we don’t live in a mad Scottish nationalist wet dream.
Because this was exactly the accusation aimed at Trump when he did exactly this in early 2020? Racism?
Yes and it’s striking how Biden gets away with what Trump was criticised for. Classic left politics.
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I think your analysis of what they did in 2020 is absolutely on the money. It’s possible you are on to something now, but I think the narrative of the Chinese watching the World Cup, realising the rest of the world is no longer doing what China is re covid and finally cracking is most likely.
Yes, I agree, which is why I used the word "rabbit-hole". I am not sure of this, just rightly cautious and suspicious
This is a time for the Precautionary Principle. China "suddenly" wants to open up, as does Hong Kong, after three years of telling us all to fuck off and stay away, following a virus THEY leaked (out of China, for sure, out of a lab, probably)? Hmmmmmm
We should politely tell them to do one, for three months. No flights from China, no Chinese nationals, until the spring, and until we know more about their exit wave. Let us take care of our own - as they did
That would require the world to do that, not just us.
We could at least start. America and Italy have now suddenly imposed tests etc
Just stop flights and introduce travel bans from China. It's not hard. They are going through an unprecedented exit wave. The risk to us is palpable
NOT doing this because we are scared of being accused of "racism" is puerile
Who is suggesting we are not doing this because racism? Only you, that I can see. If we were under Nicola Sturgeon’s benevolent dictatorship and were still trying to suppress covid then of course we would ban the flights. Happily we don’t live in a mad Scottish nationalist wet dream.
Because this was exactly the accusation aimed at Trump when he did exactly this in early 2020? Racism?
I believe that educational services are exempt from VAT because of EU law.
So until retained EU law is repealed no government could impose VAT on school fees.
In one of the many delicious ironies arising from Brexit, it is the Tories who are proposing to repeal in toto all EU retained law by the end of 2023 and it is Labour which is opposing this, in large part because of the absolute chaos it would cause in the employment field.
There are lots of reasons why the government proposal to repeal all EU retained law within the next year is going to be a clusterfuck of Trussian proportions and why, if it has any sense at all, the Sunak government, should quietly withdraw it. See here, for instance: https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1607996697875206144?s=61&t=-_udYAE5a_0y7NIN0EYWwg.
At some point it is possible that the Tory party may wake up to the implications of what they are doing - and the Labour Party too will need to engage with the issue of retained EU law.
I think the member states had some flexibility here. EU Article 132 exempts from VAT, among other things:
"the provision of children's or young people's education, school or university education, vocational training or retraining, including the supply of services and of goods closely related thereto, by bodies governed by public law having such as their aim or by other organisations recognised by the Member State concerned as having similar objects;"
(My bold)
But if not, how ironic if the first real benefit of Brexit is the removal of this iniquitous VAT exemption.
I suspect that, for a variety of reasons, the government will be forced to backtrack on its Retained EU Law Bill. Largely because of the effects on employment law
Why don't we all get a tax rebate on our uni fees?
What about the majority who don't go to university?
What about the majority that don't go to private schools?
Another irony is once we attain our A levels from private and state school alike we are all thrown in the same mix. State sector scumbag filth debutanting ladies from Marlborough College (or Malvern, Cheltenham and Rodene). It shouldn't be allowed.
The posh boarding school girls love a bit of a working class rough. That was my experience anyway.
She came from Greece, she had a thirst for knowledge...
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I think your analysis of what they did in 2020 is absolutely on the money. It’s possible you are on to something now, but I think the narrative of the Chinese watching the World Cup, realising the rest of the world is no longer doing what China is re covid and finally cracking is most likely.
Yes, I agree, which is why I used the word "rabbit-hole". I am not sure of this, just rightly cautious and suspicious
This is a time for the Precautionary Principle. China "suddenly" wants to open up, as does Hong Kong, after three years of telling us all to fuck off and stay away, following a virus THEY leaked (out of China, for sure, out of a lab, probably)? Hmmmmmm
We should politely tell them to do one, for three months. No flights from China, no Chinese nationals, until the spring, and until we know more about their exit wave. Let us take care of our own - as they did
That would require the world to do that, not just us.
We could at least start. America and Italy have now suddenly imposed tests etc
Just stop flights and introduce travel bans from China. It's not hard. They are going through an unprecedented exit wave. The risk to us is palpable
NOT doing this because we are scared of being accused of "racism" is puerile
I have no issue with banning flights from China or forcing those from China to complete a negative test before entry but I can't see it would make much difference to Covid levels here.
Surely the problem in China, the reason their infections rates are so high right now, is their lack of inherent immunity because of their piss-poor vaccine half-heartedly rolled out couple with their erstwhile ultra strict lock-down policy.
Now that policy has been abruptly reversed Covid has let rip.
None of that reduces the inherent relatively high-levels of immunity here. We have nothing to fear.
The risk is a new variant. Potentially vaccine evasive
Yes yes we have loads of natural immunity (we have all had Covid) and we have good jabs, BUT in the short horrible history of Covid, 1000 million people in one country have never got Covid all at the same time. Yet that is exactly what is happening in China right now as they abruptly open up with a naive population. It is a huge experiment on the Chinese people
Why should we happily join in their experiment? Close the borders to China and the Chinese for 3 months. Just do it
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I think your analysis of what they did in 2020 is absolutely on the money. It’s possible you are on to something now, but I think the narrative of the Chinese watching the World Cup, realising the rest of the world is no longer doing what China is re covid and finally cracking is most likely.
Yes, I agree, which is why I used the word "rabbit-hole". I am not sure of this, just rightly cautious and suspicious
This is a time for the Precautionary Principle. China "suddenly" wants to open up, as does Hong Kong, after three years of telling us all to fuck off and stay away, following a virus THEY leaked (out of China, for sure, out of a lab, probably)? Hmmmmmm
We should politely tell them to do one, for three months. No flights from China, no Chinese nationals, until the spring, and until we know more about their exit wave. Let us take care of our own - as they did
That would require the world to do that, not just us.
We could at least start. America and Italy have now suddenly imposed tests etc
Just stop flights and introduce travel bans from China. It's not hard. They are going through an unprecedented exit wave. The risk to us is palpable
NOT doing this because we are scared of being accused of "racism" is puerile
I have no issue with banning flights from China or forcing those from China to complete a negative test before entry but I can't see it would make much difference to Covid levels here.
Surely the problem in China, the reason their infections rates are so high right now, is their lack of inherent immunity because of their piss-poor vaccine half-heartedly rolled out couple with their erstwhile ultra strict lock-down policy.
Now that policy has been abruptly reversed Covid has let rip.
None of that reduces the inherent relatively high-levels of immunity here. We have nothing to fear.
The risk is a new variant. Potentially vaccine evasive
Yes yes we have loads of natural immunity (we have all had Covid) and we have good jabs, BUT in the short horrible history of Covid, 1000 million people in one country have never got Covid all at the same time. Yet that is exactly what is happening in China right now as they abruptly open up with a naive population. It is a huge experiment on the Chinese people
Why should we happily join in their experiment? Close the borders to China and the Chinese for 3 months. Just do it
I would. But the Government you voted for doesn't seem keen.
It's interesting how we don't want to help the minority that go to university with their fees yet we're bending over backwards to help the minority that go to private schools!
Most universities are also classed as exempt charities in tax terms
Not to mention charities that are 100% free of doing any charitable work. They just fund raise for… funding themselves to fund raise…..
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I think your analysis of what they did in 2020 is absolutely on the money. It’s possible you are on to something now, but I think the narrative of the Chinese watching the World Cup, realising the rest of the world is no longer doing what China is re covid and finally cracking is most likely.
Yes, I agree, which is why I used the word "rabbit-hole". I am not sure of this, just rightly cautious and suspicious
This is a time for the Precautionary Principle. China "suddenly" wants to open up, as does Hong Kong, after three years of telling us all to fuck off and stay away, following a virus THEY leaked (out of China, for sure, out of a lab, probably)? Hmmmmmm
We should politely tell them to do one, for three months. No flights from China, no Chinese nationals, until the spring, and until we know more about their exit wave. Let us take care of our own - as they did
That would require the world to do that, not just us.
We could at least start. America and Italy have now suddenly imposed tests etc
Just stop flights and introduce travel bans from China. It's not hard. They are going through an unprecedented exit wave. The risk to us is palpable
NOT doing this because we are scared of being accused of "racism" is puerile
I have no issue with banning flights from China or forcing those from China to complete a negative test before entry but I can't see it would make much difference to Covid levels here.
Surely the problem in China, the reason their infections rates are so high right now, is their lack of inherent immunity because of their piss-poor vaccine half-heartedly rolled out couple with their erstwhile ultra strict lock-down policy.
Now that policy has been abruptly reversed Covid has let rip.
None of that reduces the inherent relatively high-levels of immunity here. We have nothing to fear.
The risk is a new variant. Potentially vaccine evasive
Yes yes we have loads of natural immunity (we have all had Covid) and we have good jabs, BUT in the short horrible history of Covid, 1000 million people in one country have never got Covid all at the same time. Yet that is exactly what is happening in China right now as they abruptly open up with a naive population. It is a huge experiment on the Chinese people
Why should we happily join in their experiment? Close the borders to China and the Chinese for 3 months. Just do it
Vaccine evasive is not the risk. It’s really not. Your immune system has seen the whole vaccine now (in your case about 10 times). It’s been trained against many more features than the spike protein. This is why My state of worry is no more than an interesting, and worth watching, but no current action needed.
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I think your analysis of what they did in 2020 is absolutely on the money. It’s possible you are on to something now, but I think the narrative of the Chinese watching the World Cup, realising the rest of the world is no longer doing what China is re covid and finally cracking is most likely.
Yes, I agree, which is why I used the word "rabbit-hole". I am not sure of this, just rightly cautious and suspicious
This is a time for the Precautionary Principle. China "suddenly" wants to open up, as does Hong Kong, after three years of telling us all to fuck off and stay away, following a virus THEY leaked (out of China, for sure, out of a lab, probably)? Hmmmmmm
We should politely tell them to do one, for three months. No flights from China, no Chinese nationals, until the spring, and until we know more about their exit wave. Let us take care of our own - as they did
That would require the world to do that, not just us.
We could at least start. America and Italy have now suddenly imposed tests etc
Just stop flights and introduce travel bans from China. It's not hard. They are going through an unprecedented exit wave. The risk to us is palpable
NOT doing this because we are scared of being accused of "racism" is puerile
Who is suggesting we are not doing this because racism? Only you, that I can see. If we were under Nicola Sturgeon’s benevolent dictatorship and were still trying to suppress covid then of course we would ban the flights. Happily we don’t live in a mad Scottish nationalist wet dream.
Because this was exactly the accusation aimed at Trump when he did exactly this in early 2020? Racism?
Citation?
"Sanders also slammed President Trump's response to the coronavirus outbreak – and said that he would not consider closing the border, no matter what.
"If you had to, would you close down the borders?" Baier asked, referring to efforts to stop the spread of coronavirus.
"The restrictions [on China] went into effect on Jan. 31. On the following day, Feb. 1, Biden said on social media, “We are in the midst of a crisis with the coronavirus. We need to lead the way with science — not Donald Trump’s record of hysteria, xenophobia, and fear-mongering. He is the worst possible person to lead our country through a global health emergency.”
On March 12, Biden tweeted, “A wall will not stop the coronavirus. Banning all travel from Europe — or any other part of the world — will not stop it. This disease could impact every nation and any person on the planet — and we need a plan to combat it.”
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I have to say that I share your scepticism about Xi's sudden conversion from Zero Covid to "Let's open the borders and stop all testing or other sensible precautionary measures" in 3 weeks with no preparation at all.
I assume that the Chinese government is lying about what is going on inside the country. I also assume that there will likely be new variants and that we cannot cheerfully assume that such variants will be mild and/or easily dealt with by existing vaccines.
This misses the point about most everyone in the U.K. having had covid. We are not now protected primarily by the vaccines - if you think that, you need to learn a bit more. The vaccines we had allowed us to all experience covid, and now our immune systems have seen the whole virus. That’s why we have less to fear than the Chinese, where many have not been vaccinated or experienced covid yet.
I have yet to experience Covid of any kind. I am assuming that it is the 4 vaccinations I have had which have protected me.
But I am not a scientist so happy to take your word for it.
I find it hard to have much sympathy for those who say they'd oppose VAT on school fees because they might have to pay a bit more when state schools have to ask parents for donations so they can afford books.
Just wait to you hear what private schools do with local authorities. Very interesting tactics
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I have to say that I share your scepticism about Xi's sudden conversion from Zero Covid to "Let's open the borders and stop all testing or other sensible precautionary measures" in 3 weeks with no preparation at all.
I assume that the Chinese government is lying about what is going on inside the country. I also assume that there will likely be new variants and that we cannot cheerfully assume that such variants will be mild and/or easily dealt with by existing vaccines.
This misses the point about most everyone in the U.K. having had covid. We are not now protected primarily by the vaccines - if you think that, you need to learn a bit more. The vaccines we had allowed us to all experience covid, and now our immune systems have seen the whole virus. That’s why we have less to fear than the Chinese, where many have not been vaccinated or experienced covid yet.
I have yet to experience Covid of any kind. I am assuming that it is the 4 vaccinations I have had which have protected me.
But I am not a scientist so happy to take your word for it.
That you know of.
A substantial number of people have no idea they have ever had COViD. Multiple times…
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
Eton had a new sports hall built whilst the school around the corner was asking for donations to buy teaching supplies. How is that fair
Because it was privately funded by donations from taxed income (I assume).
The charitable aspect - and Eton is great about this - is from sharing the facilities with local schools and residents for no cost. So those kids get access to facilities that they wouldn’t otherwise have in the state sector.
The parents can just send their kids to state schools and fund a charitable sports hall out of altruism.
Of course they can.
But rightly or wrongly - as anyone in the third sector will tell you - fund raising is a lot easier when you can make a personal connection with the donor.
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I have to say that I share your scepticism about Xi's sudden conversion from Zero Covid to "Let's open the borders and stop all testing or other sensible precautionary measures" in 3 weeks with no preparation at all.
I assume that the Chinese government is lying about what is going on inside the country. I also assume that there will likely be new variants and that we cannot cheerfully assume that such variants will be mild and/or easily dealt with by existing vaccines.
This misses the point about most everyone in the U.K. having had covid. We are not now protected primarily by the vaccines - if you think that,
you need to learn a bit more. The vaccines we had allowed us to all experience covid, and now our immune systems have seen the whole virus. That’s why we have less to fear than the Chinese, where many have not been vaccinated or experienced covid yet.
Yes, your posts are excellent on this matter. Yet it’s still not widely known that this is the case. People still think the vax is the main countermeasure - forgetting that something of the order of 90% of the population have had the bug at least once!
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
There you are then, if the charitable status and VAT exemptions were removed the schools could cover the cost by stopping future bursaries. They all go to the children of 'distressed gentlefolk' anyway.
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I think your analysis of what they did in 2020 is absolutely on the money. It’s possible you are on to something now, but I think the narrative of the Chinese watching the World Cup, realising the rest of the world is no longer doing what China is re covid and finally cracking is most likely.
Yes, I agree, which is why I used the word "rabbit-hole". I am not sure of this, just rightly cautious and suspicious
This is a time for the Precautionary Principle. China "suddenly" wants to open up, as does Hong Kong, after three years of telling us all to fuck off and stay away, following a virus THEY leaked (out of China, for sure, out of a lab, probably)? Hmmmmmm
We should politely tell them to do one, for three months. No flights from China, no Chinese nationals, until the spring, and until we know more about their exit wave. Let us take care of our own - as they did
That would require the world to do that, not just us.
We could at least start. America and Italy have now suddenly imposed tests etc
Just stop flights and introduce travel bans from China. It's not hard. They are going through an unprecedented exit wave. The risk to us is palpable
NOT doing this because we are scared of being accused of "racism" is puerile
I have no issue with banning flights from China or forcing those from China to complete a negative test before entry but I can't see it would make much difference to Covid levels here.
Surely the problem in China, the reason their infections rates are so high right now, is their lack of inherent immunity because of their piss-poor vaccine half-heartedly rolled out couple with their erstwhile ultra strict lock-down policy.
Now that policy has been abruptly reversed Covid has let rip.
None of that reduces the inherent relatively high-levels of immunity here. We have nothing to fear.
The risk is a new variant. Potentially vaccine evasive
Yes yes we have loads of natural immunity (we have all had Covid) and we have good jabs, BUT in the short horrible history of Covid, 1000 million people in one country have never got Covid all at the same time. Yet that is exactly what is happening in China right now as they abruptly open up with a naive population. It is a huge experiment on the Chinese people
Why should we happily join in their experiment? Close the borders to China and the Chinese for 3 months. Just do it
I would. But the Government you voted for doesn't seem keen.
You and I are of one like mind in believing this UK government is Utterly Pathetic
I'm on the right, yet I want them gone. Even at the risk of Sir Kir Woke-Royale Starmer. We need a change
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I think your analysis of what they did in 2020 is absolutely on the money. It’s possible you are on to something now, but I think the narrative of the Chinese watching the World Cup, realising the rest of the world is no longer doing what China is re covid and finally cracking is most likely.
Yes, I agree, which is why I used the word "rabbit-hole". I am not sure of this, just rightly cautious and suspicious
This is a time for the Precautionary Principle. China "suddenly" wants to open up, as does Hong Kong, after three years of telling us all to fuck off and stay away, following a virus THEY leaked (out of China, for sure, out of a lab, probably)? Hmmmmmm
We should politely tell them to do one, for three months. No flights from China, no Chinese nationals, until the spring, and until we know more about their exit wave. Let us take care of our own - as they did
That would require the world to do that, not just us.
We could at least start. America and Italy have now suddenly imposed tests etc
Just stop flights and introduce travel bans from China. It's not hard. They are going through an unprecedented exit wave. The risk to us is palpable
NOT doing this because we are scared of being accused of "racism" is puerile
I have no issue with banning flights from China or forcing those from China to complete a negative test before entry but I can't see it would make much difference to Covid levels here.
Surely the problem in China, the reason their infections rates are so high right now, is their lack of inherent immunity because of their piss-poor vaccine half-heartedly rolled out couple with their erstwhile ultra strict lock-down policy.
Now that policy has been abruptly reversed Covid has let rip.
None of that reduces the inherent relatively high-levels of immunity here. We have nothing to fear.
The risk is a new variant. Potentially vaccine evasive
Everybody has HAD covid in the UK (or damned near enough). Why do you keep going on about vaccines?
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I have to say that I share your scepticism about Xi's sudden conversion from Zero Covid to "Let's open the borders and stop all testing or other sensible precautionary measures" in 3 weeks with no preparation at all.
I assume that the Chinese government is lying about what is going on inside the country. I also assume that there will likely be new variants and that we cannot cheerfully assume that such variants will be mild and/or easily dealt with by existing vaccines.
This misses the point about most everyone in the U.K. having had covid. We are not now protected primarily by the vaccines - if you think that, you need to learn a bit more. The vaccines we had allowed us to all experience covid, and now our immune systems have seen the whole virus. That’s why we have less to fear than the Chinese, where many have not been vaccinated or experienced covid yet.
I have yet to experience Covid of any kind. I am assuming that it is the 4 vaccinations I have had which have protected me.
But I am not a scientist so happy to take your word for it.
You are in the same boat as me - I’ve not tested positive yet. However it’s certain that we have both been exposed, and probably had covid without knowing. I don’t know how often you’ve tested yourself. I have done minimal testing, usually when under the weather. I suspect I may have had omicron in Feb. A test on the Sunday was negative, but a later test may have been positive. I didn’t do that test. Without antibody testing neither of us can be sure if we’ve had covid or not.
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I think your analysis of what they did in 2020 is absolutely on the money. It’s possible you are on to something now, but I think the narrative of the Chinese watching the World Cup, realising the rest of the world is no longer doing what China is re covid and finally cracking is most likely.
Yes, I agree, which is why I used the word "rabbit-hole". I am not sure of this, just rightly cautious and suspicious
This is a time for the Precautionary Principle. China "suddenly" wants to open up, as does Hong Kong, after three years of telling us all to fuck off and stay away, following a virus THEY leaked (out of China, for sure, out of a lab, probably)? Hmmmmmm
We should politely tell them to do one, for three months. No flights from China, no Chinese nationals, until the spring, and until we know more about their exit wave. Let us take care of our own - as they did
That would require the world to do that, not just us.
We could at least start. America and Italy have now suddenly imposed tests etc
Just stop flights and introduce travel bans from China. It's not hard. They are going through an unprecedented exit wave. The risk to us is palpable
NOT doing this because we are scared of being accused of "racism" is puerile
I have no issue with banning flights from China or forcing those from China to complete a negative test before entry but I can't see it would make much difference to Covid levels here.
Surely the problem in China, the reason their infections rates are so high right now, is their lack of inherent immunity because of their piss-poor vaccine half-heartedly rolled out couple with their erstwhile ultra strict lock-down policy.
Now that policy has been abruptly reversed Covid has let rip.
None of that reduces the inherent relatively high-levels of immunity here. We have nothing to fear.
The risk is a new variant. Potentially vaccine evasive
Everybody has HAD covid in the UK (or damned bear enough). Why do you keep going on about vaccines?
Because they are part of our armour against Covid. Which, I presume, is why the government is keen for people to get boosters and is pursuing new jabs into the future?
Yes, 95% of us have now had Covid. That confers some natural immunity. Vaccines add to that and also help in reducing severity of disease etc
Or are you suggesting we abandon vaccines as they are now useless?
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
There you are then, if the charitable status and VAT exemptions were removed the schools could cover the cost by stopping future bursaries. They all go to the children of 'distressed gentlefolk' anyway.
Depends on the school - most do a rigorous means testing process. The kind of thing that government is unable to apply - actually work out how much money you have, savings etc.
Most schools I know of will adapt to VAT by reducing aid to state schools.
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I think your analysis of what they did in 2020 is absolutely on the money. It’s possible you are on to something now, but I think the narrative of the Chinese watching the World Cup, realising the rest of the world is no longer doing what China is re covid and finally cracking is most likely.
Yes, I agree, which is why I used the word "rabbit-hole". I am not sure of this, just rightly cautious and suspicious
This is a time for the Precautionary Principle. China "suddenly" wants to open up, as does Hong Kong, after three years of telling us all to fuck off and stay away, following a virus THEY leaked (out of China, for sure, out of a lab, probably)? Hmmmmmm
We should politely tell them to do one, for three months. No flights from China, no Chinese nationals, until the spring, and until we know more about their exit wave. Let us take care of our own - as they did
That would require the world to do that, not just us.
We could at least start. America and Italy have now suddenly imposed tests etc
Just stop flights and introduce travel bans from China. It's not hard. They are going through an unprecedented exit wave. The risk to us is palpable
NOT doing this because we are scared of being accused of "racism" is puerile
I have no issue with banning flights from China or forcing those from China to complete a negative test before entry but I can't see it would make much difference to Covid levels here.
Surely the problem in China, the reason their infections rates are so high right now, is their lack of inherent immunity because of their piss-poor vaccine half-heartedly rolled out couple with their erstwhile ultra strict lock-down policy.
Now that policy has been abruptly reversed Covid has let rip.
None of that reduces the inherent relatively high-levels of immunity here. We have nothing to fear.
The risk is a new variant. Potentially vaccine evasive
Yes yes we have loads of natural immunity (we have all had Covid) and we have good jabs, BUT in the short horrible history of Covid, 1000 million people in one country have never got Covid all at the same time. Yet that is exactly what is happening in China right now as they abruptly open up with a naive population. It is a huge experiment on the Chinese people
Why should we happily join in their experiment? Close the borders to China and the Chinese for 3 months. Just do it
I would. But the Government you voted for doesn't seem keen.
You and I are of one like mind in believing this UK government is Utterly Pathetic
I'm on the right, yet I want them gone. Even at the risk of Sir Kir Woke-Royale Starmer. We need a change
On that we do agree.
I also acknowledge your citations in the earlier post. From my perspective it looks like politicking but let me concede the point - if Trump does something the left are going to criticise it; when Biden does it, it's fine. 'Twas ever thus.
It's interesting how we don't want to help the minority that go to university with their fees yet we're bending over backwards to help the minority that go to private schools!
We help those that go to state schools far more.
People sending their children to private schools is a huge public benefit, because, amongst other things, it means that the state doesn't have to pay for the cost of their education. In return, not charging them an extra 20% on top of that seems like a positive bargain, particularly when the private schools share the benefits of their facilities etc.
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
I had a look at Sherborne as they are quite close to you.
Fee income (before bursaries) £24.2m Expenditure on educational matters £24.4m
Bursaries were £2.9m and reported as a negative income (Ie reported fee income was £21.3m)
If vat at 20% were added on to the fee income that would cost parents an additional £4.2m (£21.3x20%)
How many of the bursaries would be cut to try and reduce the impact on school numbers of VAT?
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
There you are then, if the charitable status and VAT exemptions were removed the schools could cover the cost by stopping future bursaries. They all go to the children of 'distressed gentlefolk' anyway.
Depends on the school - most do a rigorous means testing process. The kind of thing that government is unable to apply - actually work out how much money you have, savings etc.
Most schools I know of will adapt to VAT by reducing aid to state schools.
I have to take issue with "The kind of thing that government is unable to apply - actually work out how much money you have, savings etc." You've obviously never tried to apply for means-tested benefits!
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I have to say that I share your scepticism about Xi's sudden conversion from Zero Covid to "Let's open the borders and stop all testing or other sensible precautionary measures" in 3 weeks with no preparation at all.
I assume that the Chinese government is lying about what is going on inside the country. I also assume that there will likely be new variants and that we cannot cheerfully assume that such variants will be mild and/or easily dealt with by existing vaccines.
This misses the point about most everyone in the U.K. having had covid. We are not now protected primarily by the vaccines - if you think that, you need to learn a bit more. The vaccines we had allowed us to all experience covid, and now our immune systems have seen the whole virus. That’s why we have less to fear than the Chinese, where many have not been vaccinated or experienced covid yet.
I have yet to experience Covid of any kind. I am assuming that it is the 4 vaccinations I have had which have protected me.
But I am not a scientist so happy to take your word for it.
As others have said, you have almost certainly had it, and simply not noticed (or the test failed)
I tested negative in the first week of Omicron when I was laid low with a horrible flu like bug that took away my sense of smell and taste for three days (a bizarre symptom I have not had before nor since)
Obvs, I had Covid. I was so ill I fucked up my test (I was delirious as I held the swab). This will be the case for many
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
Eton had a new sports hall built whilst the school around the corner was asking for donations to buy teaching supplies. How is that fair
Because it was privately funded by donations from taxed income (I assume).
The charitable aspect - and Eton is great about this - is from sharing the facilities with local schools and residents for no cost. So those kids get access to facilities that they wouldn’t otherwise have in the state sector.
The parents can just send their kids to state schools and fund a charitable sports hall out of altruism.
Of course they can.
But rightly or wrongly - as anyone in the third sector will tell you - fund raising is a lot easier when you can make a personal connection with the donor.
They could. But they won’t
I agree they won't. Some "charity" that is.
It is the *schools* that are charities not the parents. The community is benefiting regardless of the motives of the parents
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I think your analysis of what they did in 2020 is absolutely on the money. It’s possible you are on to something now, but I think the narrative of the Chinese watching the World Cup, realising the rest of the world is no longer doing what China is re covid and finally cracking is most likely.
Yes, I agree, which is why I used the word "rabbit-hole". I am not sure of this, just rightly cautious and suspicious
This is a time for the Precautionary Principle. China "suddenly" wants to open up, as does Hong Kong, after three years of telling us all to fuck off and stay away, following a virus THEY leaked (out of China, for sure, out of a lab, probably)? Hmmmmmm
We should politely tell them to do one, for three months. No flights from China, no Chinese nationals, until the spring, and until we know more about their exit wave. Let us take care of our own - as they did
That would require the world to do that, not just us.
We could at least start. America and Italy have now suddenly imposed tests etc
Just stop flights and introduce travel bans from China. It's not hard. They are going through an unprecedented exit wave. The risk to us is palpable
NOT doing this because we are scared of being accused of "racism" is puerile
I have no issue with banning flights from China or forcing those from China to complete a negative test before entry but I can't see it would make much difference to Covid levels here.
Surely the problem in China, the reason their infections rates are so high right now, is their lack of inherent immunity because of their piss-poor vaccine half-heartedly rolled out couple with their erstwhile ultra strict lock-down policy.
Now that policy has been abruptly reversed Covid has let rip.
None of that reduces the inherent relatively high-levels of immunity here. We have nothing to fear.
The risk is a new variant. Potentially vaccine evasive
Everybody has HAD covid in the UK (or damned bear enough). Why do you keep going on about vaccines?
Because they are part of our armour against Covid. Which, I presume, is why the government is keen for people to get boosters and is pursuing new jabs into the future?
Yes, 95% of us have now had Covid. That confers some natural immunity. Vaccines add to that and also help in reducing severity of disease etc
Or are you suggesting we abandon vaccines as they are now useless?
No of course not, although what you have described is effectively the reality for anyone under 50. I have no underlying conditions and as such don’t qualify for any further vaccinations, so vax number three is it for millions. We now rely on infection- and old-vaccine-conferred immunity.
It's interesting how we don't want to help the minority that go to university with their fees yet we're bending over backwards to help the minority that go to private schools!
Most universities are also classed as exempt charities in tax terms
Not to mention charities that are 100% free of doing any charitable work. They just fund raise for… funding themselves to fund raise…..
That and keep the management in a certain style.
Christ Church Oxford, net assets £577 million and Trinity College Cambridge, net assets £1.8 billion (making Eton with £611 million look like the poor relation) are also charities. They make Eton look like a poor relation. Certainly helps keep the fellows in good port!
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
I had a look at Sherborne as they are quite close to you.
Fee income (before bursaries) £24.2m Expenditure on educational matters £24.4m
Bursaries were £2.9m and reported as a negative income (Ie reported fee income was £21.3m)
If vat at 20% were added on to the fee income that would cost parents an additional £4.2m (£21.3x20%)
How many of the bursaries would be cut to try and reduce the impact on school numbers of VAT?
All of them probably. But who is being helped by the bursaries? Not kids from the nearby Yeovil sink estates, I bet.
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
There you are then, if the charitable status and VAT exemptions were removed the schools could cover the cost by stopping future bursaries. They all go to the children of 'distressed gentlefolk' anyway.
Restricting access and choice in education is not a benefit to society
Update on my dad - The hospital has tried to throw him out of hospital every day since Boxing Day, but then decide not to each time. He is very angry particularly being in (so called) isolation. He doesn't believe he has covid. Not bad for someone whom we were told was going to die imminently on Christmas day and had to decide on resuscitation. I say so called isolation because I am allowed to visit and they will release him with COVID. I had very close contact with him on Christmas day as he lay there collapsed, and am still free of COVID, so I thought I would give it another go by visiting the isolation ward tonight (a bit of a loose definition of isolation).
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I think your analysis of what they did in 2020 is absolutely on the money. It’s possible you are on to something now, but I think the narrative of the Chinese watching the World Cup, realising the rest of the world is no longer doing what China is re covid and finally cracking is most likely.
Yes, I agree, which is why I used the word "rabbit-hole". I am not sure of this, just rightly cautious and suspicious
This is a time for the Precautionary Principle. China "suddenly" wants to open up, as does Hong Kong, after three years of telling us all to fuck off and stay away, following a virus THEY leaked (out of China, for sure, out of a lab, probably)? Hmmmmmm
We should politely tell them to do one, for three months. No flights from China, no Chinese nationals, until the spring, and until we know more about their exit wave. Let us take care of our own - as they did
That would require the world to do that, not just us.
We could at least start. America and Italy have now suddenly imposed tests etc
Just stop flights and introduce travel bans from China. It's not hard. They are going through an unprecedented exit wave. The risk to us is palpable
NOT doing this because we are scared of being accused of "racism" is puerile
I have no issue with banning flights from China or forcing those from China to complete a negative test before entry but I can't see it would make much difference to Covid levels here.
Surely the problem in China, the reason their infections rates are so high right now, is their lack of inherent immunity because of their piss-poor vaccine half-heartedly rolled out couple with their erstwhile ultra strict lock-down policy.
Now that policy has been abruptly reversed Covid has let rip.
None of that reduces the inherent relatively high-levels of immunity here. We have nothing to fear.
The risk is a new variant. Potentially vaccine evasive
Everybody has HAD covid in the UK (or damned bear enough). Why do you keep going on about vaccines?
Because they are part of our armour against Covid. Which, I presume, is why the government is keen for people to get boosters and is pursuing new jabs into the future?
Yes, 95% of us have now had Covid. That confers some natural immunity. Vaccines add to that and also help in reducing severity of disease etc
Or are you suggesting we abandon vaccines as they are now useless?
They are not useless, but probably becoming out of date against the newer variants, hence the need for updating. Sadly covid is proving to be a rapid mutator so vaccines that are tailored for now will reduce in effectiveness. However it’s important to understand the reasons for vaccinating the vulnerable again. This is done to increase neutralising antibodies in the shor5 term to help reduce infections, and presumably add to the longer term immune defences. Initially the role of the vaccines were to allow us to ge5 covid with a greatly reduced risk, which is exactly what happened. It would have been lovely if vaccination worked 100% and never needed boosting, or new versions, but life’s not like that. The typical flu vaccine is not that effective either, yet no one worried about that. (Well outside UKHSA maybe).
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
I had a look at Sherborne as they are quite close to you.
Fee income (before bursaries) £24.2m Expenditure on educational matters £24.4m
Bursaries were £2.9m and reported as a negative income (Ie reported fee income was £21.3m)
If vat at 20% were added on to the fee income that would cost parents an additional £4.2m (£21.3x20%)
How many of the bursaries would be cut to try and reduce the impact on school numbers of VAT?
All of them probably. But who is being helped by the bursaries? Not kids from the nearby Yeovil sink estates, I bet.
Well the one school I do know (which I won’t name) was careful to make sure that it was needs blind and open access. The only special group that benefited disproportionally was teacher’s children and the governors made a decision that should be funded by the school directly not from the bursary pot for the reason you are suggesting.
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
There you are then, if the charitable status and VAT exemptions were removed the schools could cover the cost by stopping future bursaries. They all go to the children of 'distressed gentlefolk' anyway.
Restricting access and choice in education is not a benefit to society
The access and choice is only available to the top 5-10% of society.
But look, I appreciate you and many others have strong views on this, and I'm not going to change your views.
I said earlier it's a strange thing for Labour to major on - not going to win or lose them many votes imo.
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I have to say that I share your scepticism about Xi's sudden conversion from Zero Covid to "Let's open the borders and stop all testing or other sensible precautionary measures" in 3 weeks with no preparation at all.
I assume that the Chinese government is lying about what is going on inside the country. I also assume that there will likely be new variants and that we cannot cheerfully assume that such variants will be mild and/or easily dealt with by existing vaccines.
This misses the point about most everyone in the U.K. having had covid. We are not now protected primarily by the vaccines - if you think that, you need to learn a bit more. The vaccines we had allowed us to all experience covid, and now our immune systems have seen the whole virus. That’s why we have less to fear than the Chinese, where many have not been vaccinated or experienced covid yet.
I have yet to experience Covid of any kind. I am assuming that it is the 4 vaccinations I have had which have protected me.
But I am not a scientist so happy to take your word for it.
You are in the same boat as me - I’ve not tested positive yet. However it’s certain that we have both been exposed, and probably had covid without knowing. I don’t know how often you’ve tested yourself. I have done minimal testing, usually when under the weather. I suspect I may have had omicron in Feb. A test on the Sunday was negative, but a later test may have been positive. I didn’t do that test. Without antibody testing neither of us can be sure if we’ve had covid or not.
I have had a couple of tests and both have been negative.
For various reasons to do with other aspects of my health, I monitor my health pretty carefully. I have never had anything even remotely like Covid, in the last few years, which is unusual. My brother who has similar health issues to mine has tested more often and he too has never tested positive.
Maybe we have both been very lucky. I am, I will admit, a little paranoid about any sort of chest infection and/or blood clot issue - as either of these cause me some pretty serious problems.
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
I had a look at Sherborne as they are quite close to you.
Fee income (before bursaries) £24.2m Expenditure on educational matters £24.4m
Bursaries were £2.9m and reported as a negative income (Ie reported fee income was £21.3m)
If vat at 20% were added on to the fee income that would cost parents an additional £4.2m (£21.3x20%)
How many of the bursaries would be cut to try and reduce the impact on school numbers of VAT?
All of them probably. But who is being helped by the bursaries? Not kids from the nearby Yeovil sink estates, I bet.
Absolutely definitely wrong about this. The bursaries go to genuinely sink estate working class children, in my direct experience of Sherborne and at least one other public school.
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I have to say that I share your scepticism about Xi's sudden conversion from Zero Covid to "Let's open the borders and stop all testing or other sensible precautionary measures" in 3 weeks with no preparation at all.
I assume that the Chinese government is lying about what is going on inside the country. I also assume that there will likely be new variants and that we cannot cheerfully assume that such variants will be mild and/or easily dealt with by existing vaccines.
This misses the point about most everyone in the U.K. having had covid. We are not now protected primarily by the vaccines - if you think that, you need to learn a bit more. The vaccines we had allowed us to all experience covid, and now our immune systems have seen the whole virus. That’s why we have less to fear than the Chinese, where many have not been vaccinated or experienced covid yet.
I have yet to experience Covid of any kind. I am assuming that it is the 4 vaccinations I have had which have protected me.
But I am not a scientist so happy to take your word for it.
You are in the same boat as me - I’ve not tested positive yet. However it’s certain that we have both been exposed, and probably had covid without knowing. I don’t know how often you’ve tested yourself. I have done minimal testing, usually when under the weather. I suspect I may have had omicron in Feb. A test on the Sunday was negative, but a later test may have been positive. I didn’t do that test. Without antibody testing neither of us can be sure if we’ve had covid or not.
I have had a couple of tests and both have been negative.
For various reasons to do with other aspects of my health, I monitor my health pretty carefully. I have never had anything even remotely like Covid, in the last few years, which is unusual. My brother who has similar health issues to mine has tested more often and he too has never tested positive.
Maybe we have both been very lucky. I am, I will admit, a little paranoid about any sort of chest infection and/or blood clot issue - as either of these cause me some pretty serious problems.
There have been some studies on those who have never had covid, although I’ve not followed them closely. A colleague who worked in the hospitals in the first waves was initially going to be included, but then finally contracted it earlier this year. You may be one of the lucky ones, or you may have had it as an asymptomatic infection (especially after vaccination). Long May it continue!
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
I had a look at Sherborne as they are quite close to you.
Fee income (before bursaries) £24.2m Expenditure on educational matters £24.4m
Bursaries were £2.9m and reported as a negative income (Ie reported fee income was £21.3m)
If vat at 20% were added on to the fee income that would cost parents an additional £4.2m (£21.3x20%)
How many of the bursaries would be cut to try and reduce the impact on school numbers of VAT?
All of them probably. But who is being helped by the bursaries? Not kids from the nearby Yeovil sink estates, I bet.
Absolutely definitely wrong about this. The bursaries go to genuinely sink estate working class children, in my direct experience of Sherborne and at least one other public school.
Ok, I am happy to be proved wrong but how are those sink estate kids found and selected? What's the process?
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I have to say that I share your scepticism about Xi's sudden conversion from Zero Covid to "Let's open the borders and stop all testing or other sensible precautionary measures" in 3 weeks with no preparation at all.
I assume that the Chinese government is lying about what is going on inside the country. I also assume that there will likely be new variants and that we cannot cheerfully assume that such variants will be mild and/or easily dealt with by existing vaccines.
This misses the point about most everyone in the U.K. having had covid. We are not now protected primarily by the vaccines - if you think that, you need to learn a bit more. The vaccines we had allowed us to all experience covid, and now our immune systems have seen the whole virus. That’s why we have less to fear than the Chinese, where many have not been vaccinated or experienced covid yet.
I have yet to experience Covid of any kind. I am assuming that it is the 4 vaccinations I have had which have protected me.
But I am not a scientist so happy to take your word for it.
You are in the same boat as me - I’ve not tested positive yet. However it’s certain that we have both been exposed, and probably had covid without knowing. I don’t know how often you’ve tested yourself. I have done minimal testing, usually when under the weather. I suspect I may have had omicron in Feb. A test on the Sunday was negative, but a later test may have been positive. I didn’t do that test. Without antibody testing neither of us can be sure if we’ve had covid or not.
I have had a couple of tests and both have been negative.
For various reasons to do with other aspects of my health, I monitor my health pretty carefully. I have never had anything even remotely like Covid, in the last few years, which is unusual. My brother who has similar health issues to mine has tested more often and he too has never tested positive.
Maybe we have both been very lucky. I am, I will admit, a little paranoid about any sort of chest infection and/or blood clot issue - as either of these cause me some pretty serious problems.
There have been some studies on those who have never had covid, although I’ve not followed them closely. A colleague who worked in the hospitals in the first waves was initially going to be included, but then finally contracted it earlier this year. You may be one of the lucky ones, or you may have had it as an asymptomatic infection (especially after vaccination). Long May it continue!
Could it be that some people are just naturally immune, presumably due to to their genes?
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
There you are then, if the charitable status and VAT exemptions were removed the schools could cover the cost by stopping future bursaries. They all go to the children of 'distressed gentlefolk' anyway.
Restricting access and choice in education is not a benefit to society
The access and choice is only available to the top 5-10% of society.
But look, I appreciate you and many others have strong views on this, and I'm not going to change your views.
I said earlier it's a strange thing for Labour to major on - not going to win or lose them many votes imo.
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
There you are then, if the charitable status and VAT exemptions were removed the schools could cover the cost by stopping future bursaries. They all go to the children of 'distressed gentlefolk' anyway.
Restricting access and choice in education is not a benefit to society
The access and choice is only available to the top 5-10% of society.
But look, I appreciate you and many others have strong views on this, and I'm not going to change your views.
I said earlier it's a strange thing for Labour to major on - not going to win or lose them many votes imo.
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I have to say that I share your scepticism about Xi's sudden conversion from Zero Covid to "Let's open the borders and stop all testing or other sensible precautionary measures" in 3 weeks with no preparation at all.
I assume that the Chinese government is lying about what is going on inside the country. I also assume that there will likely be new variants and that we cannot cheerfully assume that such variants will be mild and/or easily dealt with by existing vaccines.
This misses the point about most everyone in the U.K. having had covid. We are not now protected primarily by the vaccines - if you think that, you need to learn a bit more. The vaccines we had allowed us to all experience covid, and now our immune systems have seen the whole virus. That’s why we have less to fear than the Chinese, where many have not been vaccinated or experienced covid yet.
I have yet to experience Covid of any kind. I am assuming that it is the 4 vaccinations I have had which have protected me.
But I am not a scientist so happy to take your word for it.
You are in the same boat as me - I’ve not tested positive yet. However it’s certain that we have both been exposed, and probably had covid without knowing. I don’t know how often you’ve tested yourself. I have done minimal testing, usually when under the weather. I suspect I may have had omicron in Feb. A test on the Sunday was negative, but a later test may have been positive. I didn’t do that test. Without antibody testing neither of us can be sure if we’ve had covid or not.
I have had a couple of tests and both have been negative.
For various reasons to do with other aspects of my health, I monitor my health pretty carefully. I have never had anything even remotely like Covid, in the last few years, which is unusual. My brother who has similar health issues to mine has tested more often and he too has never tested positive.
Maybe we have both been very lucky. I am, I will admit, a little paranoid about any sort of chest infection and/or blood clot issue - as either of these cause me some pretty serious problems.
There have been some studies on those who have never had covid, although I’ve not followed them closely. A colleague who worked in the hospitals in the first waves was initially going to be included, but then finally contracted it earlier this year. You may be one of the lucky ones, or you may have had it as an asymptomatic infection (especially after vaccination). Long May it continue!
Could it be that some people are just naturally immune, presumably due to to their genes?
It’s not impossible. It’s also possible that infection from a related coronavirus may have conferred some protection. That’s what the studies are hoping to show. I suspect it will be a lot of factors in the end.
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
Sorry, Horse, I wasn't trying to tar you (or even all of you) with the same brush. Just responding in kind to the previous poster's simplification of the arguments put forward tonight.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
Sorry, Horse, I wasn't trying to tar you (or even all of you) with the same brush. Just responding in kind to the previous poster's simplification of the arguments put forward tonight.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
Ultimately this is exactly what I want, couldn't agree more.
I am very passionate that we should be teaching kids how to program, if I was in Government that would be one of my key policies.
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I have to say that I share your scepticism about Xi's sudden conversion from Zero Covid to "Let's open the borders and stop all testing or other sensible precautionary measures" in 3 weeks with no preparation at all.
I assume that the Chinese government is lying about what is going on inside the country. I also assume that there will likely be new variants and that we cannot cheerfully assume that such variants will be mild and/or easily dealt with by existing vaccines.
This misses the point about most everyone in the U.K. having had covid. We are not now protected primarily by the vaccines - if you think that, you need to learn a bit more. The vaccines we had allowed us to all experience covid, and now our immune systems have seen the whole virus. That’s why we have less to fear than the Chinese, where many have not been vaccinated or experienced covid yet.
I have yet to experience Covid of any kind. I am assuming that it is the 4 vaccinations I have had which have protected me.
But I am not a scientist so happy to take your word for it.
As others have said, you have almost certainly had it, and simply not noticed (or the test failed)
I tested negative in the first week of Omicron when I was laid low with a horrible flu like bug that took away my sense of smell and taste for three days (a bizarre symptom I have not had before nor since)
Obvs, I had Covid. I was so ill I fucked up my test (I was delirious as I held the swab). This will be the case for many
19 out of 20 Brits have now had Covid
I don't understand why people are determined to tell me that I must have had Covid. I have never even had any of the symptoms of Covid. I know exactly what my health has been like and when I have been ill and what with. And I know what family members and friends have been like when they have had it.
Perhaps I have had a disease which had no effect on me and no symptoms despite me being, for other health reasons at greater risk, and despite usually catching every cold going. Bizarrely I have not even had my usual spring-time bout of asthma caused by an allergy to tree pollen, despite being surrounded by trees. Or perhaps I have just not had it.
Anyway, let's hope China opening her borders doesn't end up being a rerun of 2020. That would be quite unbearable
Update on my dad - The hospital has tried to throw him out of hospital every day since Boxing Day, but then decide not to each time. He is very angry particularly being in (so called) isolation. He doesn't believe he has covid. Not bad for someone whom we were told was going to die imminently on Christmas day and had to decide on resuscitation. I say so called isolation because I am allowed to visit and they will release him with COVID. I had very close contact with him on Christmas day as he lay there collapsed, and am still free of COVID, so I thought I would give it another go by visiting the isolation ward tonight (a bit of a loose definition of isolation).
Yes, I've really "gone off on one" by suggesting that the UK government should copy the US, Italy, Taiwan and Japan in placing restrictions on Chinese visitors and flights. Quite insane!
My sincere sympathies on your plight with your Pa. I am going through something not entirely dissimilar (tho not as bad - so perhaps I am lucky). It is tough. Courage
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
I had a look at Sherborne as they are quite close to you.
Fee income (before bursaries) £24.2m Expenditure on educational matters £24.4m
Bursaries were £2.9m and reported as a negative income (Ie reported fee income was £21.3m)
If vat at 20% were added on to the fee income that would cost parents an additional £4.2m (£21.3x20%)
How many of the bursaries would be cut to try and reduce the impact on school numbers of VAT?
All of them probably. But who is being helped by the bursaries? Not kids from the nearby Yeovil sink estates, I bet.
Absolutely definitely wrong about this. The bursaries go to genuinely sink estate working class children, in my direct experience of Sherborne and at least one other public school.
Ok, I am happy to be proved wrong but how are those sink estate kids found and selected? What's the process?
What is that aroma I am sniffing from the post to which you are responding? Ah yes, bulls***.
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I have to say that I share your scepticism about Xi's sudden conversion from Zero Covid to "Let's open the borders and stop all testing or other sensible precautionary measures" in 3 weeks with no preparation at all.
I assume that the Chinese government is lying about what is going on inside the country. I also assume that there will likely be new variants and that we cannot cheerfully assume that such variants will be mild and/or easily dealt with by existing vaccines.
This misses the point about most everyone in the U.K. having had covid. We are not now protected primarily by the vaccines - if you think that, you need to learn a bit more. The vaccines we had allowed us to all experience covid, and now our immune systems have seen the whole virus. That’s why we have less to fear than the Chinese, where many have not been vaccinated or experienced covid yet.
I have yet to experience Covid of any kind. I am assuming that it is the 4 vaccinations I have had which have protected me.
But I am not a scientist so happy to take your word for it.
As others have said, you have almost certainly had it, and simply not noticed (or the test failed)
I tested negative in the first week of Omicron when I was laid low with a horrible flu like bug that took away my sense of smell and taste for three days (a bizarre symptom I have not had before nor since)
Obvs, I had Covid. I was so ill I fucked up my test (I was delirious as I held the swab). This will be the case for many
19 out of 20 Brits have now had Covid
I don't understand why people are determined to tell me that I must have had Covid. I have never even had any of the symptoms of Covid. I know exactly what my health has been like and when I have been ill and what with. And I know what family members and friends have been like when they have had it.
Perhaps I have had a disease which had no effect on me and no symptoms despite me being, for other health reasons at greater risk, and despite usually catching every cold going. Bizarrely I have not even had my usual spring-time bout of asthma caused by an allergy to tree pollen, despite being surrounded by trees. Or perhaps I have just not had it.
Anyway, let's hope China opening her borders doesn't end up being a rerun of 2020. That would be quite unbearable
Dear Miss Cyclefree, mine was not a personal remark, merely a statistical observation
The boffins think 95% of us have had Covid (if not more) so you are quite unlikely NOT to have got it, especially as you have continued to live a full life with socialising these last 3 years. Of course it is better if you HAVE had it (without noticing) coz it means you are more immune in future
We agree on China. Just close the damn borders. We are nearly through this thing. Why take a risk right at the end?
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
Sorry, Horse, I wasn't trying to tar you (or even all of you) with the same brush. Just responding in kind to the previous poster's simplification of the arguments put forward tonight.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
Ultimately this is exactly what I want, couldn't agree more.
I am very passionate that we should be teaching kids how to program, if I was in Government that would be one of my key policies.
Yeah but. That's kinda nonsense. If everyone could expertly programme it would be minimum wage. And the kid who could paint, write, draw would be paying £260 for tacos.
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I have to say that I share your scepticism about Xi's sudden conversion from Zero Covid to "Let's open the borders and stop all testing or other sensible precautionary measures" in 3 weeks with no preparation at all.
I assume that the Chinese government is lying about what is going on inside the country. I also assume that there will likely be new variants and that we cannot cheerfully assume that such variants will be mild and/or easily dealt with by existing vaccines.
This misses the point about most everyone in the U.K. having had covid. We are not now protected primarily by the vaccines - if you think that, you need to learn a bit more. The vaccines we had allowed us to all experience covid, and now our immune systems have seen the whole virus. That’s why we have less to fear than the Chinese, where many have not been vaccinated or experienced covid yet.
I have yet to experience Covid of any kind. I am assuming that it is the 4 vaccinations I have had which have protected me.
But I am not a scientist so happy to take your word for it.
As others have said, you have almost certainly had it, and simply not noticed (or the test failed)
I tested negative in the first week of Omicron when I was laid low with a horrible flu like bug that took away my sense of smell and taste for three days (a bizarre symptom I have not had before nor since)
Obvs, I had Covid. I was so ill I fucked up my test (I was delirious as I held the swab). This will be the case for many
19 out of 20 Brits have now had Covid
I don't understand why people are determined to tell me that I must have had Covid. I have never even had any of the symptoms of Covid. I know exactly what my health has been like and when I have been ill and what with. And I know what family members and friends have been like when they have had it.
Perhaps I have had a disease which had no effect on me and no symptoms despite me being, for other health reasons at greater risk, and despite usually catching every cold going. Bizarrely I have not even had my usual spring-time bout of asthma caused by an allergy to tree pollen, despite being surrounded by trees. Or perhaps I have just not had it.
Anyway, let's hope China opening her borders doesn't end up being a rerun of 2020. That would be quite unbearable
I am convinced my father-in-law has not had it - he's not even had the slightest symptoms. But then he lives alone and only goes out once a week to go shopping, and gets visits form his (covid-cautious) daughters every few days.
A repeat of 2020 is not on the cards - immunity levels, non-existent then, must be pretty high now.
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Okay, but let’s say this policy led to a 2pp drop in kids being educated privately. Would you see that as a bad thing as it would put more pressure on the state system? Would it be a price worth paying?
Yes. We should do the right thing not live in fear of making taxes fairer because x may happen or y may happen.
So reducing the number of kids in private school is morally correct? Should people also not be able to pay for private healthcare? Should state provision be the only available option?
Is there much evidence private schools really reduce pressure on the state system? I would argue the state system has been gutted to such a degree that it can't support people as it should - but that isn't because parents are putting their kids in private schools.
The idea parents do it to relieve pressure on the state system is clearly absurd.
It seems to be a southern England thing. In the rest of the country middle-class people overwhelmingly send their children to state schools.
Bear with me as I disappear down the Covid Conspiracy Rabbithole
"Xi has gone from welding his citizens inside buildings to pushing free travel of Chinese citizens infected with the virus (or a new variant thereof).Xi could easily limit travel, so what is actually going on?Travel bans on Chinese flights are a must.#China"
it is an astonishing volte face by the CCP. From Zero Covid to Fuck It: in a few weeks
Is it possible they have identified a new variant which is not only highly nasty, but cannot be contained, and they want the rest of the world to suffer from it, as they suffer? I would ignore this wild possibility, if it weren't for the fact this is EXACTLY what China did with Original Covid, in early 2020. They kept the international air routes open as long as humanly possible, in the face of global opposition, precisely so they seeded it around the world, even as they CLOSED internal routes out of Wuhan/Hubei Province
Yep, rabbit hole. We already have variants in the U.K. that cannot be contained. China is now experiencing what happens if you try and fail to suppress covid, use shit vaccines and fail to vaccinate those who need it most, and fail to update the vaccines.
At heart most people in the U.K. have now had covid, and thus have antibodies against the whole virus, not just spike protein. This makes it a lot harder for the virus to evade immunity completely. This is not the same as neutralising antibodies - it’s the rest of the immune system. So we get lots of infections (tick) but also most people getting over it (also tick).
There is no need to invoke a new variant to explain what is happening in China.
Forgive me for suggesting that Xi and the Chinese Communist Party might not always act in the interests of all humanity, rather than in the narrow interests of Xi, his cronies and the Chinese regime
I don't know what came over me
I have to say that I share your scepticism about Xi's sudden conversion from Zero Covid to "Let's open the borders and stop all testing or other sensible precautionary measures" in 3 weeks with no preparation at all.
I assume that the Chinese government is lying about what is going on inside the country. I also assume that there will likely be new variants and that we cannot cheerfully assume that such variants will be mild and/or easily dealt with by existing vaccines.
This misses the point about most everyone in the U.K. having had covid. We are not now protected primarily by the vaccines - if you think that, you need to learn a bit more. The vaccines we had allowed us to all experience covid, and now our immune systems have seen the whole virus. That’s why we have less to fear than the Chinese, where many have not been vaccinated or experienced covid yet.
I have yet to experience Covid of any kind. I am assuming that it is the 4 vaccinations I have had which have protected me.
But I am not a scientist so happy to take your word for it.
As others have said, you have almost certainly had it, and simply not noticed (or the test failed)
I tested negative in the first week of Omicron when I was laid low with a horrible flu like bug that took away my sense of smell and taste for three days (a bizarre symptom I have not had before nor since)
Obvs, I had Covid. I was so ill I fucked up my test (I was delirious as I held the swab). This will be the case for many
19 out of 20 Brits have now had Covid
I don't understand why people are determined to tell me that I must have had Covid. I have never even had any of the symptoms of Covid. I know exactly what my health has been like and when I have been ill and what with. And I know what family members and friends have been like when they have had it.
Perhaps I have had a disease which had no effect on me and no symptoms despite me being, for other health reasons at greater risk, and despite usually catching every cold going. Bizarrely I have not even had my usual spring-time bout of asthma caused by an allergy to tree pollen, despite being surrounded by trees. Or perhaps I have just not had it.
Anyway, let's hope China opening her borders doesn't end up being a rerun of 2020. That would be quite unbearable
Dear Miss Cyclefree, mine was not a personal remark, merely a statistical observation
The boffins think 95% of us have had Covid (if not more) so you are quite unlikely NOT to have got it, especially as you have continued to live a full life with socialising these last 3 years. Of course it is better if you HAVE had it (without noticing) coz it means you are more immune in future
We agree on China. Just close the damn borders. We are nearly through this thing. Why take a risk right at the end?
It's not impossible. Would just be a statistical quirk. Drill down and we are all outliers. One way or another.
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
Sorry, Horse, I wasn't trying to tar you (or even all of you) with the same brush. Just responding in kind to the previous poster's simplification of the arguments put forward tonight.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
Ultimately this is exactly what I want, couldn't agree more.
I am very passionate that we should be teaching kids how to program, if I was in Government that would be one of my key policies.
Yeah but. That's kinda nonsense. If everyone could expertly programme it would be minimum wage. And the kid who could paint, write, draw would be paying £260 for tacos.
"Learning to programme" is insane. AI will be able to do virtually all of this in 2-3 years
I had a short painful car-journey with my much loved nephew XXX over Christmas. He told me he is starting to train as an accountant
Like, why? What's the fucking point? AI will have rendered nearly all jobs in accountancy obsolete within 5-10 years. I didn't say anything as it is Xmas and I didn't want to harsh his mellow
We have not BEGUN to address what AI is about to do to the jobs market (whatever you think of AGI/Turing etc). Everyone is in denial
Am a little amused that this is seen as red meat for Lefties. Since it seems to have the Right flocking back to voting for a shambolic and utterly incompetent Tory Party. Lefties seem more nuanced in their views.
Am a little amused that this is seen as red meat for Lefties. Since it seems to have the Right flocking back to voting for a shambolic and utterly incompetent Tory Party. Lefties seem nuanced in their views.
Today's Labour Party is clearly the home of rational and intelligent discussion. Where it should be.
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
I had a look at Sherborne as they are quite close to you.
Fee income (before bursaries) £24.2m Expenditure on educational matters £24.4m
Bursaries were £2.9m and reported as a negative income (Ie reported fee income was £21.3m)
If vat at 20% were added on to the fee income that would cost parents an additional £4.2m (£21.3x20%)
How many of the bursaries would be cut to try and reduce the impact on school numbers of VAT?
All of them probably. But who is being helped by the bursaries? Not kids from the nearby Yeovil sink estates, I bet.
Absolutely definitely wrong about this. The bursaries go to genuinely sink estate working class children, in my direct experience of Sherborne and at least one other public school.
Ok, I am happy to be proved wrong but how are those sink estate kids found and selected? What's the process?
What is that aroma I am sniffing from the post to which you are responding? Ah yes, bulls***.
Um, perhaps don't call me a liar? Your prolier than thou credentials are secure.
As to the selection process, I haven't a clue. But Google {public school} bursary application and you will probably find how to apply.
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
Sorry, Horse, I wasn't trying to tar you (or even all of you) with the same brush. Just responding in kind to the previous poster's simplification of the arguments put forward tonight.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
Ultimately this is exactly what I want, couldn't agree more.
I am very passionate that we should be teaching kids how to program, if I was in Government that would be one of my key policies.
Yeah but. That's kinda nonsense. If everyone could expertly programme it would be minimum wage. And the kid who could paint, write, draw would be paying £260 for tacos.
"Learning to programme" is insane. AI will be able to do virtually all of this in 2-3 years
I had a short painful car-journey with my much loved nephew XXX over Christmas. He told me he is starting to train as an accountant
Like, why? What's the fucking point? AI will have rendered nearly all jobs in accountancy obsolete within 5-10 years. I didn't say anything as it is Xmas and I didn't want to harsh his mellow
We have not BEGUN to address what AI is about to do to the jobs market (whatever you think of AGI/Turing etc). Everyone is in denial
I have an idea for an app. I might code it up in the new year and even cough up the Apple Developer fee so I can put it on the AppStore.
How do I get AI to code and test it for me? Just askin'
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Okay, but let’s say this policy led to a 2pp drop in kids being educated privately. Would you see that as a bad thing as it would put more pressure on the state system? Would it be a price worth paying?
Yes. We should do the right thing not live in fear of making taxes fairer because x may happen or y may happen.
So reducing the number of kids in private school is morally correct? Should people also not be able to pay for private healthcare? Should state provision be the only available option?
Is there much evidence private schools really reduce pressure on the state system? I would argue the state system has been gutted to such a degree that it can't support people as it should - but that isn't because parents are putting their kids in private schools.
The idea parents do it to relieve pressure on the state system is clearly absurd.
It seems to be a southern England thing. In the rest of the country middle-class people overwhelmingly send their children to state schools.
Edinburgh says hello.
Indeed, Fettes, George Heriot's School, George Watson's College, Marchiston Castle School, Edinburgh Academy, some excellent private schools in Edinburgh
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
I had a look at Sherborne as they are quite close to you.
Fee income (before bursaries) £24.2m Expenditure on educational matters £24.4m
Bursaries were £2.9m and reported as a negative income (Ie reported fee income was £21.3m)
If vat at 20% were added on to the fee income that would cost parents an additional £4.2m (£21.3x20%)
How many of the bursaries would be cut to try and reduce the impact on school numbers of VAT?
All of them probably. But who is being helped by the bursaries? Not kids from the nearby Yeovil sink estates, I bet.
Absolutely definitely wrong about this. The bursaries go to genuinely sink estate working class children, in my direct experience of Sherborne and at least one other public school.
Ok, I am happy to be proved wrong but how are those sink estate kids found and selected? What's the process?
What is that aroma I am sniffing from the post to which you are responding? Ah yes, bulls***.
Um, perhaps don't call me a liar? Your prolier than thou credentials are secure.
As to the selection process, I haven't a clue. But Google {public school} bursary application and you will probably find how to apply.
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
Sorry, Horse, I wasn't trying to tar you (or even all of you) with the same brush. Just responding in kind to the previous poster's simplification of the arguments put forward tonight.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
Ultimately this is exactly what I want, couldn't agree more.
I am very passionate that we should be teaching kids how to program, if I was in Government that would be one of my key policies.
Yeah but. That's kinda nonsense. If everyone could expertly programme it would be minimum wage. And the kid who could paint, write, draw would be paying £260 for tacos.
"Learning to programme" is insane. AI will be able to do virtually all of this in 2-3 years
I had a short painful car-journey with my much loved nephew XXX over Christmas. He told me he is starting to train as an accountant
Like, why? What's the fucking point? AI will have rendered nearly all jobs in accountancy obsolete within 5-10 years. I didn't say anything as it is Xmas and I didn't want to harsh his mellow
We have not BEGUN to address what AI is about to do to the jobs market (whatever you think of AGI/Turing etc). Everyone is in denial
It's like this. If everyone were taught to write novels or articles like you, there'd be no money in it. And if everyone taught SEN like me the same. Regardless of AI. It's the concept of just teach kids there's a magic bullet to ensure they'll be wealthy. It's a fallacy which has existed for centuries.
Apparently they have not only already started the other prequel series 1923, wikipedia says they are working on an 1883 spin off and a further spinoff called 6666 (sadly not set in the year 6666). There is such a thing as squeezing an intellectual property too hard. Even Law and Order waited until now to have 4 series on the go at once.
Since you are discussing education, let me note an interesting finding: The COVID lockdown hurt most US students, but it helped a minority. Those it helped tended, as I recall, to have educated parents, and didn't get along well with other students at their schools. Neither is terribly surprising.
And the second may help explain the ad sign I saw some months ago near a Montessori school. It read something like this: "Back to school special. 22 karate lessons for 20 dollars". (Sorry, I didn't take a picture of the sign. I'm still getting used to having a camera with me nearly every place I go.)
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
Sorry, Horse, I wasn't trying to tar you (or even all of you) with the same brush. Just responding in kind to the previous poster's simplification of the arguments put forward tonight.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
Ultimately this is exactly what I want, couldn't agree more.
I am very passionate that we should be teaching kids how to program, if I was in Government that would be one of my key policies.
Yeah but. That's kinda nonsense. If everyone could expertly programme it would be minimum wage. And the kid who could paint, write, draw would be paying £260 for tacos.
"Learning to programme" is insane. AI will be able to do virtually all of this in 2-3 years
I had a short painful car-journey with my much loved nephew XXX over Christmas. He told me he is starting to train as an accountant
Like, why? What's the fucking point? AI will have rendered nearly all jobs in accountancy obsolete within 5-10 years. I didn't say anything as it is Xmas and I didn't want to harsh his mellow
We have not BEGUN to address what AI is about to do to the jobs market (whatever you think of AGI/Turing etc). Everyone is in denial
It's like this. If everyone were taught to write novels or articles like you, there'd be no money in it. And if everyone taught SEN like me the same. Regardless of AI. It's the concept of just teach kids there's a magic bullet to ensure they'll be wealthy. It's a fallacy which has existed for centuries.
It's not about being wealthy. It's about helping kids compete against Japan and China who teach these subjects from primary school. It also develops critical thinking and logic.
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
Sorry, Horse, I wasn't trying to tar you (or even all of you) with the same brush. Just responding in kind to the previous poster's simplification of the arguments put forward tonight.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
Ultimately this is exactly what I want, couldn't agree more.
I am very passionate that we should be teaching kids how to program, if I was in Government that would be one of my key policies.
Yeah but. That's kinda nonsense. If everyone could expertly programme it would be minimum wage. And the kid who could paint, write, draw would be paying £260 for tacos.
"Learning to programme" is insane. AI will be able to do virtually all of this in 2-3 years
I had a short painful car-journey with my much loved nephew XXX over Christmas. He told me he is starting to train as an accountant
Like, why? What's the fucking point? AI will have rendered nearly all jobs in accountancy obsolete within 5-10 years. I didn't say anything as it is Xmas and I didn't want to harsh his mellow
We have not BEGUN to address what AI is about to do to the jobs market (whatever you think of AGI/Turing etc). Everyone is in denial
AI is unlikely to completely eliminate most of the jobs it touches. It will elimate many, perhaps most, of the current tasks in those jobs. But the overall jobs will remain, doing the bits that AI can't do, including things like pointing the AI in the right direction, describing the scope and the guardrails etc.
And of course, it will be decades before AI actually replaces all the stuff it can replace because companies are big behemoths that are slow to change. If you went into an S&P500 company tomorrow and immediately set up a digital transformation, it would take you 3-5 years to get through the first wave of obvious use cases to do.
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
Sorry, Horse, I wasn't trying to tar you (or even all of you) with the same brush. Just responding in kind to the previous poster's simplification of the arguments put forward tonight.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
Ultimately this is exactly what I want, couldn't agree more.
I am very passionate that we should be teaching kids how to program, if I was in Government that would be one of my key policies.
Yeah but. That's kinda nonsense. If everyone could expertly programme it would be minimum wage. And the kid who could paint, write, draw would be paying £260 for tacos.
"Learning to programme" is insane. AI will be able to do virtually all of this in 2-3 years
I had a short painful car-journey with my much loved nephew XXX over Christmas. He told me he is starting to train as an accountant
Like, why? What's the fucking point? AI will have rendered nearly all jobs in accountancy obsolete within 5-10 years. I didn't say anything as it is Xmas and I didn't want to harsh his mellow
We have not BEGUN to address what AI is about to do to the jobs market (whatever you think of AGI/Turing etc). Everyone is in denial
I have an idea for an app. I might code it up in the new year and even cough up the Apple Developer fee so I can put it on the AppStore.
How do I get AI to code and test it for me? Just askin'
Very sadly, and I say this as a coder who started working doing games for the Atari back in the 80s, there are already beta AI coding tools that make a first stab at your description, watch it for errors, AI investigate the errors, write tests, debug the errors, refactor the code.
And this is v0.1. I'm glad I can see retirement on the horizon before this crap hits the industry. It's not going to wipe it out by any means, but it's going to take a scythe to it.
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
Sorry, Horse, I wasn't trying to tar you (or even all of you) with the same brush. Just responding in kind to the previous poster's simplification of the arguments put forward tonight.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
Ultimately this is exactly what I want, couldn't agree more.
I am very passionate that we should be teaching kids how to program, if I was in Government that would be one of my key policies.
Yeah but. That's kinda nonsense. If everyone could expertly programme it would be minimum wage. And the kid who could paint, write, draw would be paying £260 for tacos.
"Learning to programme" is insane. AI will be able to do virtually all of this in 2-3 years
I had a short painful car-journey with my much loved nephew XXX over Christmas. He told me he is starting to train as an accountant
Like, why? What's the fucking point? AI will have rendered nearly all jobs in accountancy obsolete within 5-10 years. I didn't say anything as it is Xmas and I didn't want to harsh his mellow
We have not BEGUN to address what AI is about to do to the jobs market (whatever you think of AGI/Turing etc). Everyone is in denial
It's like this. If everyone were taught to write novels or articles like you, there'd be no money in it. And if everyone taught SEN like me the same. Regardless of AI. It's the concept of just teach kids there's a magic bullet to ensure they'll be wealthy. It's a fallacy which has existed for centuries.
Nope. You're in denial. This is coming. It's in the post
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
I had a look at Sherborne as they are quite close to you.
Fee income (before bursaries) £24.2m Expenditure on educational matters £24.4m
Bursaries were £2.9m and reported as a negative income (Ie reported fee income was £21.3m)
If vat at 20% were added on to the fee income that would cost parents an additional £4.2m (£21.3x20%)
How many of the bursaries would be cut to try and reduce the impact on school numbers of VAT?
All of them probably. But who is being helped by the bursaries? Not kids from the nearby Yeovil sink estates, I bet.
Absolutely definitely wrong about this. The bursaries go to genuinely sink estate working class children, in my direct experience of Sherborne and at least one other public school.
Ok, I am happy to be proved wrong but how are those sink estate kids found and selected? What's the process?
What is that aroma I am sniffing from the post to which you are responding? Ah yes, bulls***.
Um, perhaps don't call me a liar? Your prolier than thou credentials are secure.
As to the selection process, I haven't a clue. But Google {public school} bursary application and you will probably find how to apply.
My point is, sink estate kids don't 'Google {public school} bursary application', nor do their parents.
I followed your advice and googled for Sherborne. It's laughable.
"A year before your son is due to join Sherborne, all parents will be asked to complete an ‘Awards Interest Form’ which will indicate which awards you are considering entering your son for, including an Open Bursary..."
It's clear from that school's bursary policy that they are intended for families whose children would be ordinarily going to the school but who have fallen on hard times.
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
Sorry, Horse, I wasn't trying to tar you (or even all of you) with the same brush. Just responding in kind to the previous poster's simplification of the arguments put forward tonight.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
Ultimately this is exactly what I want, couldn't agree more.
I am very passionate that we should be teaching kids how to program, if I was in Government that would be one of my key policies.
Yeah but. That's kinda nonsense. If everyone could expertly programme it would be minimum wage. And the kid who could paint, write, draw would be paying £260 for tacos.
"Learning to programme" is insane. AI will be able to do virtually all of this in 2-3 years
I had a short painful car-journey with my much loved nephew XXX over Christmas. He told me he is starting to train as an accountant
Like, why? What's the fucking point? AI will have rendered nearly all jobs in accountancy obsolete within 5-10 years. I didn't say anything as it is Xmas and I didn't want to harsh his mellow
We have not BEGUN to address what AI is about to do to the jobs market (whatever you think of AGI/Turing etc). Everyone is in denial
It's like this. If everyone were taught to write novels or articles like you, there'd be no money in it. And if everyone taught SEN like me the same. Regardless of AI. It's the concept of just teach kids there's a magic bullet to ensure they'll be wealthy. It's a fallacy which has existed for centuries.
It's not about being wealthy. It's about helping kids compete against Japan and China who teach these subjects from primary school. It also develops critical thinking and logic.
Yes but. Not everyone is naturally gifted in this area, nor wants to be. Nor is critical thinking or logic superior to empathy or imagination. Nor is it only obtainable through that method. If you'd made me learn rudimentary coding in school I'd have dropped out at 16. Couldn't think of anything worse. I preferred poetry.
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
Sorry, Horse, I wasn't trying to tar you (or even all of you) with the same brush. Just responding in kind to the previous poster's simplification of the arguments put forward tonight.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
Ultimately this is exactly what I want, couldn't agree more.
I am very passionate that we should be teaching kids how to program, if I was in Government that would be one of my key policies.
Yeah but. That's kinda nonsense. If everyone could expertly programme it would be minimum wage. And the kid who could paint, write, draw would be paying £260 for tacos.
"Learning to programme" is insane. AI will be able to do virtually all of this in 2-3 years
I had a short painful car-journey with my much loved nephew XXX over Christmas. He told me he is starting to train as an accountant
Like, why? What's the fucking point? AI will have rendered nearly all jobs in accountancy obsolete within 5-10 years. I didn't say anything as it is Xmas and I didn't want to harsh his mellow
We have not BEGUN to address what AI is about to do to the jobs market (whatever you think of AGI/Turing etc). Everyone is in denial
I have an idea for an app. I might code it up in the new year and even cough up the Apple Developer fee so I can put it on the AppStore.
How do I get AI to code and test it for me? Just askin'
Very sadly, and I say this as a coder who started working doing games for the Atari back in the 80s, there are already beta AI coding tools that make a first stab at your description, watch it for errors, AI investigate the errors, write tests, debug the errors, refactor the code.
And this is v0.1. I'm glad I can see retirement on the horizon before this crap hits the industry. It's not going to wipe it out by any means, but it's going to take a scythe to it.
Sounds great - maybe I'll wait until next winter then and save myself the coding ball-ache. ;-)
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
Sorry, Horse, I wasn't trying to tar you (or even all of you) with the same brush. Just responding in kind to the previous poster's simplification of the arguments put forward tonight.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
Ultimately this is exactly what I want, couldn't agree more.
I am very passionate that we should be teaching kids how to program, if I was in Government that would be one of my key policies.
Yeah but. That's kinda nonsense. If everyone could expertly programme it would be minimum wage. And the kid who could paint, write, draw would be paying £260 for tacos.
"Learning to programme" is insane. AI will be able to do virtually all of this in 2-3 years
I had a short painful car-journey with my much loved nephew XXX over Christmas. He told me he is starting to train as an accountant
Like, why? What's the fucking point? AI will have rendered nearly all jobs in accountancy obsolete within 5-10 years. I didn't say anything as it is Xmas and I didn't want to harsh his mellow
We have not BEGUN to address what AI is about to do to the jobs market (whatever you think of AGI/Turing etc). Everyone is in denial
It's like this. If everyone were taught to write novels or articles like you, there'd be no money in it. And if everyone taught SEN like me the same. Regardless of AI. It's the concept of just teach kids there's a magic bullet to ensure they'll be wealthy. It's a fallacy which has existed for centuries.
Nope. You're in denial. This is coming. It's in the post
I think you misunderstood my post. I was disagreeing with "just teach coding". I wasn't really addressing AI. I'm agnostic on that.
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
I had a look at Sherborne as they are quite close to you.
Fee income (before bursaries) £24.2m Expenditure on educational matters £24.4m
Bursaries were £2.9m and reported as a negative income (Ie reported fee income was £21.3m)
If vat at 20% were added on to the fee income that would cost parents an additional £4.2m (£21.3x20%)
How many of the bursaries would be cut to try and reduce the impact on school numbers of VAT?
All of them probably. But who is being helped by the bursaries? Not kids from the nearby Yeovil sink estates, I bet.
Absolutely definitely wrong about this. The bursaries go to genuinely sink estate working class children, in my direct experience of Sherborne and at least one other public school.
Ok, I am happy to be proved wrong but how are those sink estate kids found and selected? What's the process?
What is that aroma I am sniffing from the post to which you are responding? Ah yes, bulls***.
Um, perhaps don't call me a liar? Your prolier than thou credentials are secure.
As to the selection process, I haven't a clue. But Google {public school} bursary application and you will probably find how to apply.
My point is, sink estate kids don't 'Google {public school} bursary application', nor do their parents.
I followed your advice and googled for Sherborne. It's laughable.
"A year before your son is due to join Sherborne, all parents will be asked to complete an ‘Awards Interest Form’ which will indicate which awards you are considering entering your son for, including an Open Bursary..."
It's clear from that school's bursary policy that they are intended for families whose children would be ordinarily going to the school but who have fallen on hard times.
Why so desperate about this? These schools are primarily for the children of the rich, then - as you have spotted - the children of the formerly rich, but open bursaries are a real, if minimal, part of the operation. The proles are few, but they are real proles.
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
Sorry, Horse, I wasn't trying to tar you (or even all of you) with the same brush. Just responding in kind to the previous poster's simplification of the arguments put forward tonight.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
Ultimately this is exactly what I want, couldn't agree more.
I am very passionate that we should be teaching kids how to program, if I was in Government that would be one of my key policies.
Yeah but. That's kinda nonsense. If everyone could expertly programme it would be minimum wage. And the kid who could paint, write, draw would be paying £260 for tacos.
"Learning to programme" is insane. AI will be able to do virtually all of this in 2-3 years
I had a short painful car-journey with my much loved nephew XXX over Christmas. He told me he is starting to train as an accountant
Like, why? What's the fucking point? AI will have rendered nearly all jobs in accountancy obsolete within 5-10 years. I didn't say anything as it is Xmas and I didn't want to harsh his mellow
We have not BEGUN to address what AI is about to do to the jobs market (whatever you think of AGI/Turing etc). Everyone is in denial
It's like this. If everyone were taught to write novels or articles like you, there'd be no money in it. And if everyone taught SEN like me the same. Regardless of AI. It's the concept of just teach kids there's a magic bullet to ensure they'll be wealthy. It's a fallacy which has existed for centuries.
It's not about being wealthy. It's about helping kids compete against Japan and China who teach these subjects from primary school. It also develops critical thinking and logic.
Yes but. Not everyone is naturally gifted in this area, nor wants to be. Nor is critical thinking or logic superior to empathy or imagination. Nor is it only obtainable through that method. If you'd made me learn rudimentary coding in school I'd have dropped out at 16. Couldn't think of anything worse. I preferred poetry.
Critical thinking and logic is absolutely superior to imagination if you want a high living standards society. We had great poetry and literature for millenia and virtuslly everyone remained in dirt poor subsistence. Then the Enlightenment came along and brought evidence and reason to the fore and wealth and health and education boomed.
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
Sorry, Horse, I wasn't trying to tar you (or even all of you) with the same brush. Just responding in kind to the previous poster's simplification of the arguments put forward tonight.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
Ultimately this is exactly what I want, couldn't agree more.
I am very passionate that we should be teaching kids how to program, if I was in Government that would be one of my key policies.
Yeah but. That's kinda nonsense. If everyone could expertly programme it would be minimum wage. And the kid who could paint, write, draw would be paying £260 for tacos.
"Learning to programme" is insane. AI will be able to do virtually all of this in 2-3 years
I had a short painful car-journey with my much loved nephew XXX over Christmas. He told me he is starting to train as an accountant
Like, why? What's the fucking point? AI will have rendered nearly all jobs in accountancy obsolete within 5-10 years. I didn't say anything as it is Xmas and I didn't want to harsh his mellow
We have not BEGUN to address what AI is about to do to the jobs market (whatever you think of AGI/Turing etc). Everyone is in denial
It's like this. If everyone were taught to write novels or articles like you, there'd be no money in it. And if everyone taught SEN like me the same. Regardless of AI. It's the concept of just teach kids there's a magic bullet to ensure they'll be wealthy. It's a fallacy which has existed for centuries.
Nope. You're in denial. This is coming. It's in the post
I think you misunderstood my post. I was disagreeing with "just teach coding". I wasn't really addressing AI. I'm agnostic on that.
Indeed, My remark was aimed more at the general state of denial on PB, not you (apols if it came across that way)
We face something quite special in terms of job destruction (also job creation, we hope)
The question is scale. Will it be like the advent of the internet, or more like the advent of the car, or electricity?
So the PB six-figure earner position is: the VAT exemption is worth it because it generates occasional community use of sports halls, mostly in already-wealthy areas, funded by parents who are at the breadline and will have to pull their kids out if fees rise by 1k or 2k. It's a narrative but not one which I think is systemically relevant across the UK.
And the left-wing hardliner argument is that, even though the figures don't add up, even though it will displace potentially a six figure number of children and cause chaos across the education system, that even though it will increase state school class sizes, and it will probably generate less than £100 per head extra per year per state school student, which will probably be offset in terms of the loss of value from private schools no longer performing charitable outreach, it's still a good thing because class war, yeah? When actually the very rich who send their kids to the elite schools will hardly be affected, and it's the middle class parents making real sacrifices to give their kids a better start in life who will see their kids suffer.
Very good, carry on.
I'm not even totally sold on the idea myself, I just was posting my experience with private schooling and how it doesn't match up with this idea that non-wealthy people go there. Not in my recent experience but I note it is only mine.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
Sorry, Horse, I wasn't trying to tar you (or even all of you) with the same brush. Just responding in kind to the previous poster's simplification of the arguments put forward tonight.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
Ultimately this is exactly what I want, couldn't agree more.
I am very passionate that we should be teaching kids how to program, if I was in Government that would be one of my key policies.
Yeah but. That's kinda nonsense. If everyone could expertly programme it would be minimum wage. And the kid who could paint, write, draw would be paying £260 for tacos.
"Learning to programme" is insane. AI will be able to do virtually all of this in 2-3 years
I had a short painful car-journey with my much loved nephew XXX over Christmas. He told me he is starting to train as an accountant
Like, why? What's the fucking point? AI will have rendered nearly all jobs in accountancy obsolete within 5-10 years. I didn't say anything as it is Xmas and I didn't want to harsh his mellow
We have not BEGUN to address what AI is about to do to the jobs market (whatever you think of AGI/Turing etc). Everyone is in denial
It's like this. If everyone were taught to write novels or articles like you, there'd be no money in it. And if everyone taught SEN like me the same. Regardless of AI. It's the concept of just teach kids there's a magic bullet to ensure they'll be wealthy. It's a fallacy which has existed for centuries.
It's not about being wealthy. It's about helping kids compete against Japan and China who teach these subjects from primary school. It also develops critical thinking and logic.
Yes but. Not everyone is naturally gifted in this area, nor wants to be. Nor is critical thinking or logic superior to empathy or imagination. Nor is it only obtainable through that method. If you'd made me learn rudimentary coding in school I'd have dropped out at 16. Couldn't think of anything worse. I preferred poetry.
Critical thinking and logic is absolutely superior to imagination if you want a high living standards society. We had great poetry and literature for millenia and virtuslly everyone remained in dirt poor subsistence. Then the Enlightenment came along and brought evidence and reason to the fore and wealth and health and education boomed.
A lack of imagination is what holds us back. Although I realise I'm in the minority.on here. Why is everyone so unhappy then?
"Starmer has — and this is possible to glimpse despite his opacity — always been quite left-wing. He was to the left of every leader since he was in his twenties. Except Corbyn, because there is nobody to the left of Corbyn. But he was, at least, quite comfortable with Corbyn as leader. The alternative theory posits that this wasn’t play-acting. He didn’t just say that the 2017 manifesto was a foundational document for Labour, he actually meant it. He didn’t just run as a leader from the left — mainstream, not Corbynite, but still the left — that is actually his politics. But on becoming leader he understood he couldn’t win an election like that. He’d have to lowball voters. It took him a while to appreciate that, but once he did he was pretty robust about it. He has been focused and committed in his work of reassurance.
If he were to capture power he would then be able to move the country leftward, with voter assent. He would return to something closer to his natural instinct. And it would not be the left who would feel betrayed."
Yawn. New Labour, New Danger. Seen this every time a Labour leader looks like winning.
The thing about pooh-poohing the boy who cried wolf is that the wolf did eventually come.
10 years ago, I was living on about £100 a month after housing, commuting, bills and food and only paying basic rate. I've worked very hard to get where I am now. But, because I now have a six-figure income (and that's only in the last 18 months) Labour sees no difference between me and Elon Musk - despite me having very little equity.
You can't expect me to want to vote for a party like that. And I won't be alone.
Please elaborate on how Labour believe you and Elon Musk are the same.
Labour will view me as the top 1%, the privileged elite, the wealthy, calibrate their political rhetoric to match - the politics of envy - and tax me as highly as they possibly can.
I have no doubt it will be politically rewarding for them, but I think it will be bad for the country.
"They can't possibly be worse than this lot" is a potent campaigning line, but - again - it's an emotive one and of course they can.
They certainly can.
And so to avoid taxes on income you will vote for a party that is terrified of taxing the capital you don't possess.
Labour wants to put VAT on private schools.
My daughter is at an independent prep school that I went to when I was eight years old. It costs a fair bit but we make sacrifices. We don't go on holiday quite as often as we'd like. We don't eat out as much. But it's a tradeoff we're willing to make. Of course, we're not on the breadline, but we don't lead the lifestyle some of our fellow middle-class professionals do - but it's a choice.
The school was founded in 1936. It only has 210 pupils. It specialises in outdoor education. I acquired a lifelong love of hiking, camping and archery from it. My passion for design and technology too. Some of the teachers who taught me are still there now. The current headmaster is a real brick and works his socks off. He's a good egg. My daughter loves it there. She's settled, has lots of friends and is very happy. Her and her friends virtually skip into school. They play and learn outside every day.
At weekends and holidays it throws its doors open to schoolkids in the local area, and runs adventure camps for inner city schoolkids. It also runs Chinese and Russian language courses that attract children from all over the region, to learn, facilities they struggle to find elsewhere.
Labour's policies would target schools like this. We wouldn't be able to afford the increase in the fees. We'd be faced with wrenching our daughter out of a school she loves and her friends - for us, this is very very personal.
The survival of the school itself would be in question. And, the benefits it offers to children and the wider community would be lost too. And, for what? So we can plough our extra money into consumption and higher house prices instead, and overburden our local state school instead?
It might put a smile on the faces of some Labour activists but when it comes to the next election and you can't fathom why everyone doesn't think Labour is the best thing since sliced bread and is desperate to vote for them - think of us.
I'm afraid that whole post has swayed me not a jot.
Of course it won't - you're angry at the Tories - not without cause and have convinced yourself, as have so many others, that Starmer is moderate centre-left who won't frighten the horses while trhowing you bits of red meat. And you wish to bathe in the warm red glow of supporting a party that cares, that will probably return the the UKto the EU and do all and only nice things. You need to re-read Animal Farm - next time it's never different.
"angry with the Tories" doesn't begin to cover it.
Starmer is, I fear moderate centre-left. I suspect he will be far too moderate to achieve much good.
I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable.
Casino told us some time ago what his salary is; it's a good salary and no doubt well-deserved. Since the government judges that an adult can live on £335 pm, a couple on £525 pm, and a child on £245 pm I suspect Casino will find a way to fund the VAT on his daughter's school fees.
But do you want him to be able to afford it? It sounds to me that your objection is the unfair advantage his daughter will have in life.
I'll repeat the salient point from my post: "I honestly bear no ill will towards either Casino or his daughter but to keep the VAT exemption and charitable status of private education, which is clearly a service offered for fees, is unsustainable. "
Because the charitable benefit is from the use of the facilities during weekends and holidays. If the increase in taxes makes that non-viable then charitable benefit is removed.
As I pointed out earlier, if Charitable status existed only for schools using more of their budget for charitable purposes than they gain from tax relief then the true charities would continue. Those taking the piss could either give up that status and operate as businesses, or start being more generous.
A bright line test doesn’t work (eg free use of facilities - how do you account for that). But absolutely the Charity Commission has been very focused for 10+ years on making private schools justify their charitable status by demonstrating what they are doing.
And yet, a nearby private school can happily list this as its Charity Overview on the Charity Commission website:
"Activities - how the charity spends its money
The School which is a boarding and day preparatory school, for both boys and girls, exists to provide children between the ages of three and thirteen with an all-round education of the very highest quality. The school continues to prepare children for Common Entrance and Senior Independent School Scholarships and to ensure that each child has a full extra-curricular programme."
Not much mention of the wider community there.
Bursaries are the key way that school demonstrate charitable benefit. Without looking at the accounts of the individual school in question it’s difficult to respond meaningfully.
I had a look at Sherborne as they are quite close to you.
Fee income (before bursaries) £24.2m Expenditure on educational matters £24.4m
Bursaries were £2.9m and reported as a negative income (Ie reported fee income was £21.3m)
If vat at 20% were added on to the fee income that would cost parents an additional £4.2m (£21.3x20%)
How many of the bursaries would be cut to try and reduce the impact on school numbers of VAT?
All of them probably. But who is being helped by the bursaries? Not kids from the nearby Yeovil sink estates, I bet.
Absolutely definitely wrong about this. The bursaries go to genuinely sink estate working class children, in my direct experience of Sherborne and at least one other public school.
Ok, I am happy to be proved wrong but how are those sink estate kids found and selected? What's the process?
What is that aroma I am sniffing from the post to which you are responding? Ah yes, bulls***.
Um, perhaps don't call me a liar? Your prolier than thou credentials are secure.
As to the selection process, I haven't a clue. But Google {public school} bursary application and you will probably find how to apply.
My point is, sink estate kids don't 'Google {public school} bursary application', nor do their parents.
I followed your advice and googled for Sherborne. It's laughable.
"A year before your son is due to join Sherborne, all parents will be asked to complete an ‘Awards Interest Form’ which will indicate which awards you are considering entering your son for, including an Open Bursary..."
It's clear from that school's bursary policy that they are intended for families whose children would be ordinarily going to the school but who have fallen on hard times.
Why so desperate about this? These schools are primarily for the children of the rich, then - as you have spotted - the children of the formerly rich, but open bursaries are a real, if minimal, part of the operation. The proles are few, but they are real proles.
Because you said:
"Absolutely definitely wrong about this. The bursaries go to genuinely sink estate working class children, in my direct experience of Sherborne and at least one other public school."
Comments
Japan tells Cathay to halt flights to 3 destinations amid China Covid spike https://sc.mp/tthy?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=share_widget&utm_campaign=3204657 via
@scmpnews
Positive reinforcement: Taiwan will test arrivals from China for COVID-19 as Beijing prepares to scrap quarantine requirements.
https://twitter.com/taiwanplusnews/status/1608221379094003721?s=20&t=ZV1zUnTTw6-O8FxiCpBuHw
That’s why we have less to fear than the Chinese, where many have not been vaccinated or experienced covid yet.
Surely the problem in China, the reason their infections rates are so high right now, is their lack of inherent immunity because of their piss-poor vaccine half-heartedly rolled out couple with their erstwhile ultra strict lock-down policy.
Now that policy has been abruptly reversed Covid has let rip.
None of that reduces the inherent relatively high-levels of immunity here. We have nothing to fear.
Yes yes we have loads of natural immunity (we have all had Covid) and we have good jabs, BUT in the short horrible history of Covid, 1000 million people in one country have never got Covid all at the same time. Yet that is exactly what is happening in China right now as they abruptly open up with a naive population. It is a huge experiment on the Chinese people
Why should we happily join in their experiment? Close the borders to China and the Chinese for 3 months. Just do it
That and keep the management in a certain style.
"If you had to, would you close down the borders?" Baier asked, referring to efforts to stop the spread of coronavirus.
"No," Sanders replied flatly.
He went on to condemn xenophobia"
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dems-media-change-tune-trump-attacks-coronavirus-china-travel-ban
"The restrictions [on China] went into effect on Jan. 31. On the following day, Feb. 1, Biden said on social media, “We are in the midst of a crisis with the coronavirus. We need to lead the way with science — not Donald Trump’s record of hysteria, xenophobia, and fear-mongering. He is the worst possible person to lead our country through a global health emergency.”
On March 12, Biden tweeted, “A wall will not stop the coronavirus. Banning all travel from Europe — or any other part of the world — will not stop it. This disease could impact every nation and any person on the planet — and we need a plan to combat it.”
Etc
But I am not a scientist so happy to take your word for it.
A substantial number of people have no idea they have ever had COViD. Multiple times…
I'm on the right, yet I want them gone. Even at the risk of Sir Kir Woke-Royale Starmer. We need a change
Without antibody testing neither of us can be sure if we’ve had covid or not.
How do you know you haven’t had it, albeit with mild/no symptoms? I find it unlikely you haven’t had it by now (though I suppose it’s possible)
Yes, 95% of us have now had Covid. That confers some natural immunity. Vaccines add to that and also help in reducing severity of disease etc
Or are you suggesting we abandon vaccines as they are now useless?
Most schools I know of will adapt to VAT by reducing aid to state schools.
I also acknowledge your citations in the earlier post. From my perspective it looks like politicking but let me concede the point - if Trump does something the left are going to criticise it; when Biden does it, it's fine. 'Twas ever thus.
People sending their children to private schools is a huge public benefit, because, amongst other things, it means that the state doesn't have to pay for the cost of their education. In return, not charging them an extra 20% on top of that seems like a positive bargain, particularly when the private schools share the benefits of their facilities etc.
Fee income (before bursaries) £24.2m
Expenditure on educational matters £24.4m
Bursaries were £2.9m and reported as a negative income (Ie reported fee income was £21.3m)
If vat at 20% were added on to the fee income that would cost parents an additional £4.2m (£21.3x20%)
How many of the bursaries would be cut to try and reduce the impact on school numbers of VAT?
I tested negative in the first week of Omicron when I was laid low with a horrible flu like bug that took away my sense of smell and taste for three days (a bizarre symptom I have not had before nor since)
Obvs, I had Covid. I was so ill I fucked up my test (I was delirious as I held the swab). This will be the case for many
19 out of 20 Brits have now had Covid
No of course not, although what you have described is effectively the reality for anyone under 50. I have no underlying conditions and as such don’t qualify for any further vaccinations, so vax number three is it for millions. We now rely on infection- and old-vaccine-conferred immunity.
Update on my dad - The hospital has tried to throw him out of hospital every day since Boxing Day, but then decide not to each time. He is very angry particularly being in (so called) isolation. He doesn't believe he has covid. Not bad for someone whom we were told was going to die imminently on Christmas day and had to decide on resuscitation. I say so called isolation because I am allowed to visit and they will release him with COVID. I had very close contact with him on Christmas day as he lay there collapsed, and am still free of COVID, so I thought I would give it another go by visiting the isolation ward tonight (a bit of a loose definition of isolation).
However it’s important to understand the reasons for vaccinating the vulnerable again. This is done to increase neutralising antibodies in the shor5 term to help reduce infections, and presumably add to the longer term immune defences. Initially the role of the vaccines were to allow us to ge5 covid with a greatly reduced risk, which is exactly what happened. It would have been lovely if vaccination worked 100% and never needed boosting, or new versions, but life’s not like that. The typical flu vaccine is not that effective either, yet no one worried about that. (Well outside UKHSA maybe).
Very good, carry on.
But look, I appreciate you and many others have strong views on this, and I'm not going to change your views.
I said earlier it's a strange thing for Labour to major on - not going to win or lose them many votes imo.
I oppose private schools but I accept removing them would do nothing positive.
Please don't treat us all as one hive mind
For various reasons to do with other aspects of my health, I monitor my health pretty carefully. I have never had anything even remotely like Covid, in the last few years, which is unusual. My brother who has similar health issues to mine has tested more often and he too has never tested positive.
Maybe we have both been very lucky. I am, I will admit, a little paranoid about any sort of chest infection and/or blood clot issue - as either of these cause me some pretty serious problems.
You may be one of the lucky ones, or you may have had it as an asymptomatic infection (especially after vaccination). Long May it continue!
I suspect it will be a lot of factors in the end.
It's a nuanced debate, and I feel passionate about improving educational outcomes for every single child in the country. As I've said previously, the answer is to make state schools so good nobody wants to send their kids to private school. But the numbers in terms of tax collected and children displaced suggest it's not a very good policy in terms of educational outcomes.
I am very passionate that we should be teaching kids how to program, if I was in Government that would be one of my key policies.
Perhaps I have had a disease which had no effect on me and no symptoms despite me being, for other health reasons at greater risk, and despite usually catching every cold going. Bizarrely I have not even had my usual spring-time bout of asthma caused by an allergy to tree pollen, despite being surrounded by trees. Or perhaps I have just not had it.
Anyway, let's hope China opening her borders doesn't end up being a rerun of 2020. That would be quite unbearable
My sincere sympathies on your plight with your Pa. I am going through something not entirely dissimilar (tho not as bad - so perhaps I am lucky). It is tough. Courage
"The train into the girders came,
And loud the wind did roar;
A flash is seen-the Bridge is broke-
The train is heard no more.
"The Bridge is down, "the Bridge is down,"
in words of terror spread;
The train is gone, its living freight
Are numbered with the dead."
(Apols for inflicting that on you.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay_Bridge_disaster 28 December 1879.
The boffins think 95% of us have had Covid (if not more) so you are quite unlikely NOT to have got it, especially as you have continued to live a full life with socialising these last 3 years. Of course it is better if you HAVE had it (without noticing) coz it means you are more immune in future
We agree on China. Just close the damn borders. We are nearly through this thing. Why take a risk right at the end?
That's kinda nonsense.
If everyone could expertly programme it would be minimum wage. And the kid who could paint, write, draw would be paying £260 for tacos.
A repeat of 2020 is not on the cards - immunity levels, non-existent then, must be pretty high now.
Drill down and we are all outliers. One way or another.
https://www.futurelearn.com/info/press-releases/afghanistan-free-education
Set up by the Open University. Well done them.
I had a short painful car-journey with my much loved nephew XXX over Christmas. He told me he is starting to train as an accountant
Like, why? What's the fucking point? AI will have rendered nearly all jobs in accountancy obsolete within 5-10 years. I didn't say anything as it is Xmas and I didn't want to harsh his mellow
We have not BEGUN to address what AI is about to do to the jobs market (whatever you think of AGI/Turing etc). Everyone is in denial
Since it seems to have the Right flocking back to voting for a shambolic and utterly incompetent Tory Party.
Lefties seem more nuanced in their views.
As to the selection process, I haven't a clue. But Google {public school} bursary application and you will probably find how to apply.
How do I get AI to code and test it for me? Just askin'
If everyone were taught to write novels or articles like you, there'd be no money in it. And if everyone taught SEN like me the same.
Regardless of AI.
It's the concept of just teach kids there's a magic bullet to ensure they'll be wealthy. It's a fallacy which has existed for centuries.
And the second may help explain the ad sign I saw some months ago near a Montessori school. It read something like this: "Back to school special. 22 karate lessons for 20 dollars". (Sorry, I didn't take a picture of the sign. I'm still getting used to having a camera with me nearly every place I go.)
And of course, it will be decades before AI actually replaces all the stuff it can replace because companies are big behemoths that are slow to change. If you went into an S&P500 company tomorrow and immediately set up a digital transformation, it would take you 3-5 years to get through the first wave of obvious use cases to do.
And this is v0.1. I'm glad I can see retirement on the horizon before this crap hits the industry. It's not going to wipe it out by any means, but it's going to take a scythe to it.
China: their abandonment of their locking down, zero-Covid policy is completely bonkers.
I followed your advice and googled for Sherborne. It's laughable.
"A year before your son is due to join Sherborne, all parents will be asked to complete an ‘Awards Interest Form’ which will indicate which awards you are considering entering your son for, including an Open Bursary..."
https://www.sherborne.org/admissions/scholarships-and-bursaries/third-form-awards-and-financial-support
It's clear from that school's bursary policy that they are intended for families whose children would be ordinarily going to the school but who have fallen on hard times.
https://www.sherborne.org/userfiles/sbsmvc/documents/policies-reports/SS_BUR_002 - Bursary Policy(2).pdf
Not everyone is naturally gifted in this area, nor wants to be.
Nor is critical thinking or logic superior to empathy or imagination.
Nor is it only obtainable through that method.
If you'd made me learn rudimentary coding in school I'd have dropped out at 16. Couldn't think of anything worse.
I preferred poetry.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/voters-want-to-hurt-the-tories-at-the-next-election/
Exactly right. Even the most pessimistic Tories do not realise the terrible fate that awaits them. The electorate wants REVENGE
(PS Why would there be any errors?)
I wasn't really addressing AI. I'm agnostic on that.
We face something quite special in terms of job destruction (also job creation, we hope)
The question is scale. Will it be like the advent of the internet, or more like the advent of the car, or electricity?
Or something even bigger??
It will not be smaller
Although I realise I'm in the minority.on here.
Why is everyone so unhappy then?
"Absolutely definitely wrong about this. The bursaries go to genuinely sink estate working class children, in my direct experience of Sherborne and at least one other public school."
For which I can see no evidence.