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The Front pages on Day 1 of nursing strike – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,683
edited December 2022 in General
imageThe Front pages on Day 1 of nursing strike – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    ClippPClippP Posts: 1,684
    First?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    I think it's fair to say the government's poll ratings will get worse before they get better.

    I wonder what it's like to be a scab nurse right now.
  • Options
    ClippPClippP Posts: 1,684
    kle4 said:

    I think it's fair to say the government's poll ratings will get worse before they get better.

    I wonder what it's like to be a scab nurse right now.

    Presumably a lot better than being a scab government..... In passing, who will be the first Tory MP to cross the floor? Most of them must be feeling unbelievably guilty.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    ClippP said:

    kle4 said:

    I think it's fair to say the government's poll ratings will get worse before they get better.

    I wonder what it's like to be a scab nurse right now.

    Presumably a lot better than being a scab government..... In passing, who will be the first Tory MP to cross the floor? Most of them must be feeling unbelievably guilty.
    Already missed the boat on being the first to cross the floor, with Wakeford. So who would be second.

    Someone in the Red Wall perhaps, though they often seem more right wing than others, so more likely to simply quit at the next GE rather than switch in an attempt to save their seat.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970
    edited December 2022
    Better get my teacher strike days in order.
    I would but the job is stressful...
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    Leon said:

    London is BACK (at least with those geeks who moved to the hideous, unsightly provinces)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/london-most-searched-for-location-rightmove-over-cornwall-devon-2022-j6mkn35m6

    Good to see, although it doesn’t surprise me. The idea that London’s massive agglomeration effect was going to be undone forever by a 20 month pandemic was risible even at the peak of the bug. Heard a lot of it on PB. But then you hear a lot of bullshit on PB.
    Whilst the basic principle of levelling up other cities and regions is probably a good one, as a non-Londoner I've never really felt the level of antipathy that some seem to have that leads to some odd suggestions. Like the idea other places would suddenly become much more significant if we moved parliament out of the capital. I know plenty of countries have legislatures not in the biggest city, but it would just feel weird to me.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,433
    Aldi got a good deal, they got on the front page of the Star for giving away £500 worth of vouchers?
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    ClippP said:

    kle4 said:

    I think it's fair to say the government's poll ratings will get worse before they get better.

    I wonder what it's like to be a scab nurse right now.

    Presumably a lot better than being a scab government..... In passing, who will be the first Tory MP to cross the floor? Most of them must be feeling unbelievably guilty.
    I'd hope most of them would be sent right back again!

    That horrible MP for Stoke...where do they find them?
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Sunak doesn’t have a good out, If he wins, he loses.

    He’s not an experienced politician.
  • Options
    ClippPClippP Posts: 1,684
    kle4 said:

    ClippP said:

    kle4 said:

    I think it's fair to say the government's poll ratings will get worse before they get better.

    I wonder what it's like to be a scab nurse right now.

    Presumably a lot better than being a scab government..... In passing, who will be the first Tory MP to cross the floor? Most of them must be feeling unbelievably guilty.
    Already missed the boat on being the first to cross the floor, with Wakeford. So who would be second.

    Someone in the Red Wall perhaps, though they often seem more right wing than others, so more likely to simply quit at the next GE rather than switch in an attempt to save their seat.
    I wasn't counting Wakeford, obviously. He is already history, and got out before the Conservative Party took a turn for the even worse.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    I think it's fair to say the government's poll ratings will get worse before they get better.

    I wonder what it's like to be a scab nurse right now.

    No wonder the NHS is at breaking point if we are using specialist nurses to treat scabs. Patients should just be told to stop scratching and use some moisturiser.
  • Options
    DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited December 2022
    Henry Kissinger writes in the Knapper's Gazette advocating the Dynamo-Musk plan for ending the Russia-Ukraine war!

    "If the pre-war dividing line between Ukraine and Russia cannot be achieved by combat or by negotiation, recourse to the principle of self-determination could be explored. Internationally supervised referendums concerning self-determination could be applied to particularly divisive territories".

    There's even some AI:

    "As the world’s leaders strive to end the war in which two nuclear powers contest a conventionally armed country, they should also reflect on the impact on this conflict and on long-term strategy of incipient high–technology and artificial intelligence. Auto-nomous weapons already exist, capable of defining, assessing and targeting their own perceived threats and thus in a position to start their own war.

    Once the line into this realm is crossed and hi-tech becomes standard weaponry – and computers become the principal executors of strategy – the world will find itself in a condition for which as yet it has no established concept. How can leaders exercise control when computers prescribe strategic instructions on a scale and in a manner that inherently limits and threatens human input? How can civilisation be preserved amid such a maelstrom of conflicting information, perceptions and destructive capabilities?


    ...and a veiled reference to as yet undisclosed "discoveries".

    "No theory for this encroaching world yet exists, and consultative efforts on this subject have yet to evolve – perhaps because meaningful negotiations might disclose new discoveries, and that disclosure itself constitutes a risk for the future."
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    kle4 said:

    I think it's fair to say the government's poll ratings will get worse before they get better.

    I wonder what it's like to be a scab nurse right now.

    No wonder the NHS is at breaking point if we are using specialist nurses to treat scabs. Patients should just be told to stop scratching and use some moisturiser.
    At the moment we're in the leave it alone and in time it'll fix itself mode.

    As a great man once said, time is a great healer. Unless you've got a rash, in which case you're better off with ointment.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,996
    kle4 said:

    ClippP said:

    kle4 said:

    I think it's fair to say the government's poll ratings will get worse before they get better.

    I wonder what it's like to be a scab nurse right now.

    Presumably a lot better than being a scab government..... In passing, who will be the first Tory MP to cross the floor? Most of them must be feeling unbelievably guilty.
    Already missed the boat on being the first to cross the floor, with Wakeford. So who would be second.

    Someone in the Red Wall perhaps, though they often seem more right wing than others, so more likely to simply quit at the next GE rather than switch in an attempt to save their seat.
    I thought Dehenna might have been cross-friendly, but she’s quitting instead

  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215
    FPT for @Anabobazina on near 100% Japanese masking


    "This is excruciatingly sad, if true. What is the driver for this? I assumed they would have similar immunity to us?"

    +++

    My guess is it is a mixture of a naturally quite introverted people, and also a highly conformist society. Japan is not a nation of rebels. Until they get at least 40% of people unmasking (my random guess) then no one will dare to copy

    We saw it in the UK - and we are much more individualistic and bolshy. Recall the clap for carers, and the pressure to follow the crowd. Recall ALL THE BLOODY LOCKDOWNS

    It is also certainly true. I have friends in Bangkok who tell me that 100% masking has only now begun to wane in BKK, and they say in HK, Taiwan and Japan it is still dreadful

    it is indeed awful sad
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    DJ41 said:

    Henry Kissinger writes in the Knapper's Gazette advocating the Dynamo-Musk plan for ending the Russia-Ukraine war!

    "If the pre-war dividing line between Ukraine and Russia cannot be achieved by combat or by negotiation, recourse to the principle of self-determination could be explored. Internationally supervised referendums concerning self-determination could be applied to particularly divisive territories".

    There's even some AI:

    "As the world’s leaders strive to end the war in which two nuclear powers contest a conventionally armed country, they should also reflect on the impact on this conflict and on long-term strategy of incipient high–technology and artificial intelligence. Auto-nomous weapons already exist, capable of defining, assessing and targeting their own perceived threats and thus in a position to start their own war.

    Once the line into this realm is crossed and hi-tech becomes standard weaponry – and computers become the principal executors of strategy – the world will find itself in a condition for which as yet it has no established concept. How can leaders exercise control when computers prescribe strategic instructions on a scale and in a manner that inherently limits and threatens human input? How can civilisation be preserved amid such a maelstrom of conflicting information, perceptions and destructive capabilities?


    ...and a veiled reference to as yet undisclosed "discoveries".

    "No theory for this encroaching world yet exists, and consultative efforts on this subject have yet to evolve – perhaps because meaningful negotiations might disclose new discoveries, and that disclosure itself constitutes a risk for the future."

    I do wonder how up with things Mr Kissinger may be. It's a rare and fortunate 99 year old who could stay up with it all. And his pre-war attitude was just rehashed cold war sphere of influence peddling.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,996
    ClippP said:

    kle4 said:

    ClippP said:

    kle4 said:

    I think it's fair to say the government's poll ratings will get worse before they get better.

    I wonder what it's like to be a scab nurse right now.

    Presumably a lot better than being a scab government..... In passing, who will be the first Tory MP to cross the floor? Most of them must be feeling unbelievably guilty.
    Already missed the boat on being the first to cross the floor, with Wakeford. So who would be second.

    Someone in the Red Wall perhaps, though they often seem more right wing than others, so more likely to simply quit at the next GE rather than switch in an attempt to save their seat.
    I wasn't counting Wakeford, obviously. He is already history, and got out before the Conservative Party took a turn for the even worse.
    Shaun Woodward stole Wakeford’s thunder
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,996
    Leon said:

    FPT for @Anabobazina on near 100% Japanese masking


    "This is excruciatingly sad, if true. What is the driver for this? I assumed they would have similar immunity to us?"

    +++

    My guess is it is a mixture of a naturally quite introverted people, and also a highly conformist society. Japan is not a nation of rebels. Until they get at least 40% of people unmasking (my random guess) then no one will dare to copy

    We saw it in the UK - and we are much more individualistic and bolshy. Recall the clap for carers, and the pressure to follow the crowd. Recall ALL THE BLOODY LOCKDOWNS

    It is also certainly true. I have friends in Bangkok who tell me that 100% masking has only now begun to wane in BKK, and they say in HK, Taiwan and Japan it is still dreadful

    it is indeed awful sad

    Leon said:

    FPT for @Anabobazina on near 100% Japanese masking


    "This is excruciatingly sad, if true. What is the driver for this? I assumed they would have similar immunity to us?"

    +++

    My guess is it is a mixture of a naturally quite introverted people, and also a highly conformist society. Japan is not a nation of rebels. Until they get at least 40% of people unmasking (my random guess) then no one will dare to copy

    We saw it in the UK - and we are much more individualistic and bolshy. Recall the clap for carers, and the pressure to follow the crowd. Recall ALL THE BLOODY LOCKDOWNS

    It is also certainly true. I have friends in Bangkok who tell me that 100% masking has only now begun to wane in BKK, and they say in HK, Taiwan and Japan it is still dreadful

    it is indeed awful sad

    Sad indeed. I had no idea.

  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215
    I'd just like to point out that, by the end of Clap for Carers I was BOOING THE CARERS

    Overpaid, workshy, generally obese yobbos who wear Crocs. Fuck em
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    BBC piece on the Zelensky Biden visit includes stats that Germany have committed more military aid than the UK now -come on Rishi, we must have half a billion of stuff we're never going to use that actually works we can add to the pile.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64047058
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007
    edited December 2022
    On previous thread, Jonathan Gullis may not be a fan of liberal Church of England bishops but he is a fan of the ultra conservative Father Calvin Robinson, a deacon in the Free Church of England
    https://twitter.com/calvinrobinson/status/1604546351185813505?s=20&t=h4GcyKRlxGZQeI4TCLLdug
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,996
    edited December 2022
    Roger said:

    ClippP said:

    kle4 said:

    I think it's fair to say the government's poll ratings will get worse before they get better.

    I wonder what it's like to be a scab nurse right now.

    Presumably a lot better than being a scab government..... In passing, who will be the first Tory MP to cross the floor? Most of them must be feeling unbelievably guilty.
    I'd hope most of them would be sent right back again!

    That horrible MP for Stoke...where do they find them?
    Lee Anderson, who has a Nottinghamshire seat, used to be a Labour councillor, and a bag carrier for Gloria del Piero MP.

    Yet these days he is one of the most rightwing Tories out there.

    Zeal of the convert maybe?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    Roger said:

    ClippP said:

    kle4 said:

    I think it's fair to say the government's poll ratings will get worse before they get better.

    I wonder what it's like to be a scab nurse right now.

    Presumably a lot better than being a scab government..... In passing, who will be the first Tory MP to cross the floor? Most of them must be feeling unbelievably guilty.
    I'd hope most of them would be sent right back again!

    That horrible MP for Stoke...where do they find them?
    Lee Anderson, who has a Nottinghamshire seat, used to be a Labour councillor, and a bag carrier for Gloria del Piero MP.

    Yet these days he is one of the most rightwing Tories out there.

    Zeal of the convert maybe?
    He always feels a bit performative to me, as though he feels a need to constantly demonstrate just how Tory he is. But perhaps he is just a drama queen.
  • Options
    DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    kle4 said:

    DJ41 said:

    Henry Kissinger writes in the Knapper's Gazette advocating the Dynamo-Musk plan for ending the Russia-Ukraine war!

    "If the pre-war dividing line between Ukraine and Russia cannot be achieved by combat or by negotiation, recourse to the principle of self-determination could be explored. Internationally supervised referendums concerning self-determination could be applied to particularly divisive territories".

    There's even some AI:

    "As the world’s leaders strive to end the war in which two nuclear powers contest a conventionally armed country, they should also reflect on the impact on this conflict and on long-term strategy of incipient high–technology and artificial intelligence. Auto-nomous weapons already exist, capable of defining, assessing and targeting their own perceived threats and thus in a position to start their own war.

    Once the line into this realm is crossed and hi-tech becomes standard weaponry – and computers become the principal executors of strategy – the world will find itself in a condition for which as yet it has no established concept. How can leaders exercise control when computers prescribe strategic instructions on a scale and in a manner that inherently limits and threatens human input? How can civilisation be preserved amid such a maelstrom of conflicting information, perceptions and destructive capabilities?


    ...and a veiled reference to as yet undisclosed "discoveries".

    "No theory for this encroaching world yet exists, and consultative efforts on this subject have yet to evolve – perhaps because meaningful negotiations might disclose new discoveries, and that disclosure itself constitutes a risk for the future."

    I do wonder how up with things Mr Kissinger may be. It's a rare and fortunate 99 year old who could stay up with it all. And his pre-war attitude was just rehashed cold war sphere of influence peddling.
    What to make of the phrase "new discoveries"?

    A breakthrough in fundamental physics?
    One party's intelligence about another party's weapons, R&D, or past actions?
    Aliens? :-)

    If he meant technologies, he'd probably have said so.
  • Options
    So, Conservative legislator “Lady” (Michelle) Mone OBE is on an Alpine break is she? Nice work. I assume she’ll be in police custody by the end of the week.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215

    Leon said:

    FPT for @Anabobazina on near 100% Japanese masking


    "This is excruciatingly sad, if true. What is the driver for this? I assumed they would have similar immunity to us?"

    +++

    My guess is it is a mixture of a naturally quite introverted people, and also a highly conformist society. Japan is not a nation of rebels. Until they get at least 40% of people unmasking (my random guess) then no one will dare to copy

    We saw it in the UK - and we are much more individualistic and bolshy. Recall the clap for carers, and the pressure to follow the crowd. Recall ALL THE BLOODY LOCKDOWNS

    It is also certainly true. I have friends in Bangkok who tell me that 100% masking has only now begun to wane in BKK, and they say in HK, Taiwan and Japan it is still dreadful

    it is indeed awful sad

    Leon said:

    FPT for @Anabobazina on near 100% Japanese masking


    "This is excruciatingly sad, if true. What is the driver for this? I assumed they would have similar immunity to us?"

    +++

    My guess is it is a mixture of a naturally quite introverted people, and also a highly conformist society. Japan is not a nation of rebels. Until they get at least 40% of people unmasking (my random guess) then no one will dare to copy

    We saw it in the UK - and we are much more individualistic and bolshy. Recall the clap for carers, and the pressure to follow the crowd. Recall ALL THE BLOODY LOCKDOWNS

    It is also certainly true. I have friends in Bangkok who tell me that 100% masking has only now begun to wane in BKK, and they say in HK, Taiwan and Japan it is still dreadful

    it is indeed awful sad

    Sad indeed. I had no idea.

    The truly poignant thing is that the government has reversed ALL mask mandates and is encouraging people to go back to normal, and the Tourist Authority is begging Japanese society to revert to smiles and faces, because tourists are having a terrible time in these streets full of masked folk, and won't come back


    "Return to maskless world still only in realm of fantasy in Japan: While the coronavirus has made masks part of everyday life in Japan, in the reality depicted by recent movies and dramas, office workers, young lovers,…

    https://japantoday.com/category/national/feature-return-to-maskless-world-still-only-in-realm-of-fantasy-in-japan?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=dlvr.it #japannews #japantoday"
  • Options
    DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited December 2022

    So, Conservative legislator “Lady” (Michelle) Mone OBE is on an Alpine break is she? Nice work. I assume she’ll be in police custody by the end of the week.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trials_of_peers_in_the_House_of_Lords

    "From 1547 if a peer or peeress was convicted of a crime, except treason or murder, he or she could claim 'privilege of peerage' to escape punishment if it was their first offence. In all, the privilege was exercised five times, until it was formally abolished in 1841."

    The right of a peer to be tried by the HoL was removed in 1948.
  • Options
    Jonathan said:

    Sunak doesn’t have a good out, If he wins, he loses.

    He’s not an experienced politician.

    His rookie errors are excruciating. Ditto Dud Starmer. Complete amateurs the pair of them.
  • Options
    DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    DJ41 said:

    So, Conservative legislator “Lady” (Michelle) Mone OBE is on an Alpine break is she? Nice work. I assume she’ll be in police custody by the end of the week.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trials_of_peers_in_the_House_of_Lords

    "From 1547 if a peer or peeress was convicted of a crime, except treason or murder, he or she could claim 'privilege of peerage' to escape punishment if it was their first offence. In all, the privilege was exercised five times, until it was formally abolished in 1841."

    The right of a peer to be tried by the HoL was removed in 1948.
    I doubt she will be arrested by the end of the week. There should be a market in things like that.

    Why is the government suing her? Shouldn't they wait until a decision is taken on whether or not to prosecute?
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    edited December 2022



    Leon said:

    FPT for @Anabobazina on near 100% Japanese masking

    "This is excruciatingly sad, if true. What is the driver for this? I assumed they would have similar immunity to us?"

    +++

    My guess is it is a mixture of a naturally quite introverted people, and also a highly conformist society. Japan is not a nation of rebels. Until they get at least 40% of people unmasking (my random guess) then no one will dare to copy

    We saw it in the UK - and we are much more individualistic and bolshy. Recall the clap for carers, and the pressure to follow the crowd. Recall ALL THE BLOODY LOCKDOWNS

    It is also certainly true. I have friends in Bangkok who tell me that 100% masking has only now begun to wane in BKK, and they say in HK, Taiwan and Japan it is still dreadful

    it is indeed awful sad

    Sad indeed. I had no idea.

    Yeah, the 99% number probably isn't wrong, at least for the cities. Walking around Tokyo a couple of weeks ago I saw maybe 3 or 4 people not wearing masks over an hour. I generally don't wear one outside unless I'm in a crowd but you do feel kind of self-conscious in that situation, even after 25 years of walking around being foreign.

    It's much less in the craft/tourist town where I live. Walking around I guess it's more like 70/30 mask/no-mask, but people will put them on when they go indoors. It's more at weekends when the tourists are here. There's just one shop where I go regularly where the owner and her assistant stopped wearing them, so most of the customers did too. I guess the vibe there is kind of creative/hippy/counter-culture: It's the opposite of the US-centred divide where masks have somehow become progressive-coded and your artsy cookie shop would be the place where they still wear them.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    Jonathan said:

    Sunak doesn’t have a good out, If he wins, he loses.

    He’s not an experienced politician.

    His rookie errors are excruciating. Ditto Dud Starmer. Complete amateurs the pair of them.
    If you think Starmer is making rookie errors now can you imagine what he might have been like had he become leader in 2015, as some people amazingly suggested even though he had onnly been elected 2 weeks earlier?

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/may/17/keir-starmer-rules-himself-out-labour-leadership-contest

    Still would have been better than Corbyn though, who was deeply inexperienced despite being an MP for decades.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,999
    kle4 said:

    BBC piece on the Zelensky Biden visit includes stats that Germany have committed more military aid than the UK now -come on Rishi, we must have half a billion of stuff we're never going to use that actually works we can add to the pile.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64047058

    Rishi sent them a Sea King HAS5 for Xmas!

    All I want for Christmas is a 50 year old ASW helicopter replete with stop drilled fatigue cracks.
  • Options
    DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited December 2022
    Anecdata: manager at my local Co-op reckons it's been really busy and people are going spend, spend, spend. He's a bit of a dullard (ex-army), though, so perhaps he expected nobody to go shopping at all because that's what he'd read in the Daily Express. Anyway FWIW he says it's been remarkably busy. If he's right, maybe the banks are falling over themselves to lend. Or maybe people are simply thinking eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we get locked up, get the sack, catch a killer virus, or freeze.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215



    Leon said:

    FPT for @Anabobazina on near 100% Japanese masking

    "This is excruciatingly sad, if true. What is the driver for this? I assumed they would have similar immunity to us?"

    +++

    My guess is it is a mixture of a naturally quite introverted people, and also a highly conformist society. Japan is not a nation of rebels. Until they get at least 40% of people unmasking (my random guess) then no one will dare to copy

    We saw it in the UK - and we are much more individualistic and bolshy. Recall the clap for carers, and the pressure to follow the crowd. Recall ALL THE BLOODY LOCKDOWNS

    It is also certainly true. I have friends in Bangkok who tell me that 100% masking has only now begun to wane in BKK, and they say in HK, Taiwan and Japan it is still dreadful

    it is indeed awful sad

    Sad indeed. I had no idea.

    Yeah, the 99% number probably isn't wrong, at least for the cities. Walking around Tokyo a couple of weeks ago I saw maybe 3 or 4 people not wearing masks over an hour. I generally don't wear one outside unless I'm in a crowd but you do feel kind of self-conscious in that situation, even after 25 years of walking around being foreign.

    It's much less in the craft/tourist town where I live. Walking around I guess it's more like 70/30 mask/no-mask, but people will put them on when they go indoors. It's more at weekends when the tourists are here. There's just one shop where I go regularly where the owner and her assistant stopped wearing them, so most of the customers did too. I guess the vibe there is kind of creative/hippy/counter-culture: It's the opposite of the US-centred divide where masks have somehow become progressive-coded and your artsy cookie shop would be the place where they still wear them.
    I'm sure you were pooh-poohing me a couple of weeks ago when I said masking is near-universal in Japan?

    But maybe I have it wrong

    Anyway, Japan needs to drop this because it will KILL the tourism industry. People will not return to a country where they are met with blank, masked, smile-less faces. It is too depressing and rude
  • Options
    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    FPT for @Anabobazina on near 100% Japanese masking

    "This is excruciatingly sad, if true. What is the driver for this? I assumed they would have similar immunity to us?"

    +++

    My guess is it is a mixture of a naturally quite introverted people, and also a highly conformist society. Japan is not a nation of rebels. Until they get at least 40% of people unmasking (my random guess) then no one will dare to copy

    We saw it in the UK - and we are much more individualistic and bolshy. Recall the clap for carers, and the pressure to follow the crowd. Recall ALL THE BLOODY LOCKDOWNS

    It is also certainly true. I have friends in Bangkok who tell me that 100% masking has only now begun to wane in BKK, and they say in HK, Taiwan and Japan it is still dreadful

    it is indeed awful sad

    Sad indeed. I had no idea.

    Yeah, the 99% number probably isn't wrong, at least for the cities. Walking around Tokyo a couple of weeks ago I saw maybe 3 or 4 people not wearing masks over an hour. I generally don't wear one outside unless I'm in a crowd but you do feel kind of self-conscious in that situation, even after 25 years of walking around being foreign.

    It's much less in the craft/tourist town where I live. Walking around I guess it's more like 70/30 mask/no-mask, but people will put them on when they go indoors. It's more at weekends when the tourists are here. There's just one shop where I go regularly where the owner and her assistant stopped wearing them, so most of the customers did too. I guess the vibe there is kind of creative/hippy/counter-culture: It's the opposite of the US-centred divide where masks have somehow become progressive-coded and your artsy cookie shop would be the place where they still wear them.
    I'm sure you were pooh-poohing me a couple of weeks ago when I said masking is near-universal in Japan?

    But maybe I have it wrong

    Anyway, Japan needs to drop this because it will KILL the tourism industry. People will not return to a country where they are met with blank, masked, smile-less faces. It is too depressing and rude
    I'm pretty sure I never said most people weren't wearing them, I probably pooh-poohed the degree to which you're upset that they are.

    This is another example. It won't KILL the tourism industry. What'll happen is that tourists will show up and not wear them and be around other tourists and not feel self-conscious about it. Most people will continue to be impressed by the whizzy trains and the clean streets and the combination of hi-tech and old-fashioned stuff and not be overly perturbed by the need to see the mouths of people in shops. A few people who are deep into western culture wars may feel annoyed, so maybe they should wait another year or so before they come.

    Maybe it'll be a problem for Thailand if they're still doing it, since the smiles are their whole thing.

    Also bear in mind that the big market for tourism in Japan before the pandemic was China/South Korea/Taiwan, and those guys are used to the masks and don't have a culture war over them.
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    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,505
    FPT: In this area (Seattle suburbs) it is common to see East Asians, especially women, wearing face masks on the streets. (When I meet one, I usually try to be polite, and pull up my own face mask over my mouth and nose -- and then pull it back down when I am 20 feet or so past them.

    But matters are even worse here, so much worse that some of you may want to sit down for this: In the summer it is not unusual to see East Asian women, especially older women, wearing hats to protect their faces from the sun!

    (Full disclosure: This morning started with freezing rain and turned to snow. When I went out to get a newspaper about an hour ago I put on a red (for Christmas) balaclava -- and pulled the bottom part up over my mouth and nose! I hope that confession didn't shock too many of you.)
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215

    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    FPT for @Anabobazina on near 100% Japanese masking

    "This is excruciatingly sad, if true. What is the driver for this? I assumed they would have similar immunity to us?"

    +++

    My guess is it is a mixture of a naturally quite introverted people, and also a highly conformist society. Japan is not a nation of rebels. Until they get at least 40% of people unmasking (my random guess) then no one will dare to copy

    We saw it in the UK - and we are much more individualistic and bolshy. Recall the clap for carers, and the pressure to follow the crowd. Recall ALL THE BLOODY LOCKDOWNS

    It is also certainly true. I have friends in Bangkok who tell me that 100% masking has only now begun to wane in BKK, and they say in HK, Taiwan and Japan it is still dreadful

    it is indeed awful sad

    Sad indeed. I had no idea.

    Yeah, the 99% number probably isn't wrong, at least for the cities. Walking around Tokyo a couple of weeks ago I saw maybe 3 or 4 people not wearing masks over an hour. I generally don't wear one outside unless I'm in a crowd but you do feel kind of self-conscious in that situation, even after 25 years of walking around being foreign.

    It's much less in the craft/tourist town where I live. Walking around I guess it's more like 70/30 mask/no-mask, but people will put them on when they go indoors. It's more at weekends when the tourists are here. There's just one shop where I go regularly where the owner and her assistant stopped wearing them, so most of the customers did too. I guess the vibe there is kind of creative/hippy/counter-culture: It's the opposite of the US-centred divide where masks have somehow become progressive-coded and your artsy cookie shop would be the place where they still wear them.
    I'm sure you were pooh-poohing me a couple of weeks ago when I said masking is near-universal in Japan?

    But maybe I have it wrong

    Anyway, Japan needs to drop this because it will KILL the tourism industry. People will not return to a country where they are met with blank, masked, smile-less faces. It is too depressing and rude
    I'm pretty sure I never said most people weren't wearing them, I probably pooh-poohed the degree to which you're upset that they are.

    This is another example. It won't KILL the tourism industry. What'll happen is that tourists will show up and not wear them and be around other tourists and not feel self-conscious about it. Most people will continue to be impressed by the whizzy trains and the clean streets and the combination of hi-tech and old-fashioned stuff and not be overly perturbed by the need to see the mouths of people in shops. A few people who are deep into western culture wars may feel annoyed, so maybe they should wait another year or so before they come.

    Maybe it'll be a problem for Thailand if they're still doing it, since the smiles are their whole thing.

    Also bear in mind that the big market for tourism in Japan before the pandemic was China/South Korea/Taiwan, and those guys are used to the masks and don't have a culture war over them.
    No. It will fuck tourism if it persists. Trust me
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215
    The Taliban prohibits females from attending university

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/20/taliban-ban-afghan-women-university-education

    Let all these bright Afghan women into the UK. They would be an adornment. The men can do one
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003
    kle4 said:

    BBC piece on the Zelensky Biden visit includes stats that Germany have committed more military aid than the UK now -come on Rishi, we must have half a billion of stuff we're never going to use that actually works we can add to the pile.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64047058

    That's 'commitments'. Germany has had an issue with saying they'd give kit, then it not getting delivered, or being delayed. What matters are systems delivered *now*, not in six months or a year.

    Germany has really played this badly. They are giving a lot of kit, but the deliveries get overshadowed by the internal arguments on deliveries and stuff they're not sending.
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    OT and apropos of nothing everyone should read Yglesias on the Online Rage Trap. It starts off talking about Elon Musk but it's not really about Elon Musk.
    https://www.slowboring.com/p/elon-musk-is-the-latest-victim-of
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    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,949
    Leon said:

    The Taliban prohibits females from attending university

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/20/taliban-ban-afghan-women-university-education

    Let all these bright Afghan women into the UK. They would be an adornment. The men can do one

    But how will they afford the fees?
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    Later today, I shall wear a mask to Sainsbury's. Yesterday, I did not wear a mask to a medical check-up but both the consultant and nurse were masked up. I'm not sure what any of this means but if we are re-running mask wars...
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,949

    Later today, I shall wear a mask to Sainsbury's. Yesterday, I did not wear a mask to a medical check-up but both the consultant and nurse were masked up. I'm not sure what any of this means but if we are re-running mask wars...

    Back when I was still full time employed, I was told I could come back into the office if I wore a mask. I told them that's fine, but I'd be wearing a medieval plague mask.

    They decided to let me work from home.

    Unbelievable we're still having the mask debate three years in when 99% of the population doesn't wear them and the world hasn't ended...
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,124
    So remember. No contact sports, no running if it's slippery, no driving unless it's necessary, and don't drink too much.

    At least during lockdown we could drink as much as we liked.
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    Leon said:

    I'd just like to point out that, by the end of Clap for Carers I was BOOING THE CARERS

    Overpaid, workshy, generally obese yobbos who wear Crocs. Fuck em

    I never did it because I don't like feeling obliged or compelled to do something collectively with strangers out of fear of social censure if I don't. So I didn't. I think my wife did it once and I stood next to her on the doorstep smiling. But that was only once.

    None of my neighbours are carers or nurses in my street - so it was entirely performative. It then became something you had to do or be perceived as a bit suspect which made me dislike it even more.

    I'm not sure anyone was still doing it by the end.
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    kyf_100 said:

    Later today, I shall wear a mask to Sainsbury's. Yesterday, I did not wear a mask to a medical check-up but both the consultant and nurse were masked up. I'm not sure what any of this means but if we are re-running mask wars...

    Back when I was still full time employed, I was told I could come back into the office if I wore a mask. I told them that's fine, but I'd be wearing a medieval plague mask.

    They decided to let me work from home.

    Unbelievable we're still having the mask debate three years in when 99% of the population doesn't wear them and the world hasn't ended...
    The strange one is when some put theirs on their faces on the train when they hear and see someone else coughing.

    I keep told my wife that doing it that way round, if they do have it, will make virtually no difference- it's better to just quietly change seats.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    kle4 said:

    I think it's fair to say the government's poll ratings will get worse before they get better.

    I wonder what it's like to be a scab nurse right now.

    I would be very proud of any nurse choosing to work rather than calling them abusive names which reflects very badly on the perpetrator.
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    Leon said:

    FPT for @Anabobazina on near 100% Japanese masking

    "This is excruciatingly sad, if true. What is the driver for this? I assumed they would have similar immunity to us?"

    +++

    My guess is it is a mixture of a naturally quite introverted people, and also a highly conformist society. Japan is not a nation of rebels. Until they get at least 40% of people unmasking (my random guess) then no one will dare to copy

    We saw it in the UK - and we are much more individualistic and bolshy. Recall the clap for carers, and the pressure to follow the crowd. Recall ALL THE BLOODY LOCKDOWNS

    It is also certainly true. I have friends in Bangkok who tell me that 100% masking has only now begun to wane in BKK, and they say in HK, Taiwan and Japan it is still dreadful

    it is indeed awful sad

    Sad indeed. I had no idea.

    Yeah, the 99% number probably isn't wrong, at least for the cities. Walking around Tokyo a couple of weeks ago I saw maybe 3 or 4 people not wearing masks over an hour. I generally don't wear one outside unless I'm in a crowd but you do feel kind of self-conscious in that situation, even after 25 years of walking around being foreign.

    It's much less in the craft/tourist town where I live. Walking around I guess it's more like 70/30 mask/no-mask, but people will put them on when they go indoors. It's more at weekends when the tourists are here. There's just one shop where I go regularly where the owner and her assistant stopped wearing them, so most of the customers did too. I guess the vibe there is kind of creative/hippy/counter-culture: It's the opposite of the US-centred divide where masks have somehow become progressive-coded and your artsy cookie shop would be the place where they still wear them.
    So, how do you go on the pull in Japan then?
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    DJ41 said:

    Anecdata: manager at my local Co-op reckons it's been really busy and people are going spend, spend, spend. He's a bit of a dullard (ex-army), though, so perhaps he expected nobody to go shopping at all because that's what he'd read in the Daily Express. Anyway FWIW he says it's been remarkably busy. If he's right, maybe the banks are falling over themselves to lend. Or maybe people are simply thinking eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we get locked up, get the sack, catch a killer virus, or freeze.

    We've spent rather little this Christmas, to be honest.

    But then we have a newborn and my wife is on maternity leave.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,124
    Interesting that the BBC has obtained Home Office emails (under FOIA) warning that several hundred asylum seekers were being detailed illegally at Manston "overflow centres" in November:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64037136
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    DJ41 said:

    Anecdata: manager at my local Co-op reckons it's been really busy and people are going spend, spend, spend. He's a bit of a dullard (ex-army), though, so perhaps he expected nobody to go shopping at all because that's what he'd read in the Daily Express. Anyway FWIW he says it's been remarkably busy. If he's right, maybe the banks are falling over themselves to lend. Or maybe people are simply thinking eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we get locked up, get the sack, catch a killer virus, or freeze.

    Or there is a residual vestige of common sense surviving despite all the media efforts to manufacture panic and despair because the heating has to go down a few notches.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,391
    edited December 2022
    Chris said:

    So remember. No contact sports, no running if it's slippery, no driving unless it's necessary, and don't drink too much.

    At least during lockdown we could drink as much as we liked.

    The irony is telling all the gym nuts and runners not to move from their armchairs.
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    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Leon said:

    FPT for @Anabobazina on near 100% Japanese masking


    "This is excruciatingly sad, if true. What is the driver for this? I assumed they would have similar immunity to us?"

    +++

    My guess is it is a mixture of a naturally quite introverted people, and also a highly conformist society. Japan is not a nation of rebels. Until they get at least 40% of people unmasking (my random guess) then no one will dare to copy

    We saw it in the UK - and we are much more individualistic and bolshy. Recall the clap for carers, and the pressure to follow the crowd. Recall ALL THE BLOODY LOCKDOWNS

    It is also certainly true. I have friends in Bangkok who tell me that 100% masking has only now begun to wane in BKK, and they say in HK, Taiwan and Japan it is still dreadful

    it is indeed awful sad

    Leon said:

    FPT for @Anabobazina on near 100% Japanese masking


    "This is excruciatingly sad, if true. What is the driver for this? I assumed they would have similar immunity to us?"

    +++

    My guess is it is a mixture of a naturally quite introverted people, and also a highly conformist society. Japan is not a nation of rebels. Until they get at least 40% of people unmasking (my random guess) then no one will dare to copy

    We saw it in the UK - and we are much more individualistic and bolshy. Recall the clap for carers, and the pressure to follow the crowd. Recall ALL THE BLOODY LOCKDOWNS

    It is also certainly true. I have friends in Bangkok who tell me that 100% masking has only now begun to wane in BKK, and they say in HK, Taiwan and Japan it is still dreadful

    it is indeed awful sad

    Sad indeed. I had no idea.

    Is the flipside though, the ingrained authoritarian nature of their culture this masking is suggesting, actually makes them a more productive economy and country than our more liberal culture?
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    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    So, Conservative legislator “Lady” (Michelle) Mone OBE is on an Alpine break is she? Nice work. I assume she’ll be in police custody by the end of the week.

    I actually have no problem with you being repetitive on this one Dicky, if SNP, Lib Dem or Labour were responsible for something like this the Tory press and Tory party would be raging about it from Dawn to Dusk day in day out, repetitively - it’s no different than what you hear about in other countries around the world and conclude it’s a corrupt country, those in power merely using it to line the pockets of themselves, friends and supporters.

    However, you do concede you made a false step yesterday, trying to smear the English for the theft of relics around the world when it was so quickly called out by Leon the Scottish were up to their eyebrows with the English, and other European colonial powers, in the era of all that? A Scot stole some marbles, and then sold them on for profit, does that not sound criminal to you? My advice to all ScotNats on this sort of thing is not to stir it but use the line “not all the shared history is good.” You see what I mean?
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    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,796
    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    ClippP said:

    kle4 said:

    I think it's fair to say the government's poll ratings will get worse before they get better.

    I wonder what it's like to be a scab nurse right now.

    Presumably a lot better than being a scab government..... In passing, who will be the first Tory MP to cross the floor? Most of them must be feeling unbelievably guilty.
    I'd hope most of them would be sent right back again!

    That horrible MP for Stoke...where do they find them?
    Lee Anderson, who has a Nottinghamshire seat, used to be a Labour councillor, and a bag carrier for Gloria del Piero MP.

    Yet these days he is one of the most rightwing Tories out there.

    Zeal of the convert maybe?
    He always feels a bit performative to me, as though he feels a need to constantly demonstrate just how Tory he is. But perhaps he is just a drama queen.
    Lee Anderson is an interesting character. I understand exactly how he has ended up where he has - he got done in by all the Corbynites arriving in his local party, f**ked off and joined the tories and then beat them, getting elected as a Conservative MP. It was an extremely satisfying chain of events to watch and he deserves a lot of respect for it.

    But as MP, he is less impressive; he appears to be fighting a culture war that exists mainly in his imagination; and ends up looking like a clown a lot of the time, he somehow ends up defining himself by flag waving for stupid initiatives like the Rwanda plan. He is also very confrontational and divisive, a bit like Suella Braverman and Priti Patel.

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    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Jonathan said:

    Sunak doesn’t have a good out, If he wins, he loses.

    He’s not an experienced politician.

    His rookie errors are excruciating. Ditto Dud Starmer. Complete amateurs the pair of them.
    Again I agree with you on your Labour and Starmer bashing. If anything ScotNats everywhere, especially in Parliament and senior in leadership roles are being too slow to tear into Labour. Perhaps their thinking is not to do anything that could harm the chance of a change of government, both looking at the UK parliamentary arithmetic, and historical mountain for Labour to climb for working majority, where a hung Parliament would give SNP leverage with their block of voting power; or even if Starmer did get in without it, they could get more from him and Labour than the Tories? If that is their thinking, I suggest it’s dangerous and Stupid. SNP took 40 odd MPs and Scottish Parliamentary power from Labour - I’m convinced in my mind there’s scenario - fall out from 2014 unwind - where even with desire for independence running at 40s or 50+ in opinion polls Labour can take MPs and Scottish Parliament back. The SNP really need to be getting stuck into Labour now to avoid this scenario, and I regard you as a trailblazer for this type of thinking and strategy. This is all true isn’t it?
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    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited December 2022
    Dura_Ace said:

    Ukrainian refugee update coz I know you all care... They both have NI numbers. The system works, sort of, eventually. #brokenbritain

    The elder has a job in a stables shoveling horseshit which she loves for some reason.

    The younger has a part time job in a shop (which I have to drive her to and from lol). I have told her that stealing from her employer is an essential act of militancy to fuck the capital owning class. This guidance was rejected by the recipient and then bitterly condemned by Mrs DA. She has made stellar progress in English (full credit to the teacher) and is going to try some GCSEs next year. Successfully deprogrammed her from wanting to be a cop, thank fuck.

    “Ukrainian refugee update coz I know you all care...”

    We do care about the reports of a growing number of Ukrainian refugees now homeless on the streets of Britain - yet more Tory Party shame. If you gave up on what you are doing, citing cost of living or whatever excuse, what would happen to them? 🥺
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    So, Conservative legislator “Lady” (Michelle) Mone OBE is on an Alpine break is she? Nice work. I assume she’ll be in police custody by the end of the week.

    I actually have no problem with you being repetitive on this one Dicky, if SNP, Lib Dem or Labour were responsible for something like this the Tory press and Tory party would be raging about it from Dawn to Dusk day in day out, repetitively - it’s no different than what you hear about in other countries around the world and conclude it’s a corrupt country, those in power merely using it to line the pockets of themselves, friends and supporters.
    They are. In fact, considerably worse than this:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferry_fiasco

    And one of the people accused is John Swinney, deputy First Minister, Minister for Education (in which role he makes Williamson look capable) and acting Minister of Finance.

    Strangely, I haven’t seen much call from Stuart for him to be taken into police custody.

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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    Dura_Ace said:

    Ukrainian refugee update coz I know you all care... They both have NI numbers. The system works, sort of, eventually. #brokenbritain

    The elder has a job in a stables shoveling horseshit which she loves for some reason.

    The younger has a part time job in a shop (which I have to drive her to and from lol). I have told her that stealing from her employer is an essential act of militancy to fuck the capital owning class. This guidance was rejected by the recipient and then bitterly condemned by Mrs DA. She has made stellar progress in English (full credit to the teacher) and is going to try some GCSEs next year. Successfully deprogrammed her from wanting to be a cop, thank fuck.

    Sounds like the latter one is not only very bright but incredibly brave.

    I mean, she lets you drive her? :smile:
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641

    Later today, I shall wear a mask to Sainsbury's. Yesterday, I did not wear a mask to a medical check-up but both the consultant and nurse were masked up. I'm not sure what any of this means but if we are re-running mask wars...

    Masking is part of the reason that Japan got through Covid with few deaths and little in the way of mandatory lockdowns.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641

    DJ41 said:

    Anecdata: manager at my local Co-op reckons it's been really busy and people are going spend, spend, spend. He's a bit of a dullard (ex-army), though, so perhaps he expected nobody to go shopping at all because that's what he'd read in the Daily Express. Anyway FWIW he says it's been remarkably busy. If he's right, maybe the banks are falling over themselves to lend. Or maybe people are simply thinking eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we get locked up, get the sack, catch a killer virus, or freeze.

    We've spent rather little this Christmas, to be honest.

    But then we have a newborn and my wife is on maternity leave.
    Fairly cheap one for us too. Mostly because we can't be arsed.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    Foxy said:

    Later today, I shall wear a mask to Sainsbury's. Yesterday, I did not wear a mask to a medical check-up but both the consultant and nurse were masked up. I'm not sure what any of this means but if we are re-running mask wars...

    Masking is part of the reason that Japan got through Covid with few deaths and little in the way of mandatory lockdowns.
    I don’t think it’s over yet.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641
    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Later today, I shall wear a mask to Sainsbury's. Yesterday, I did not wear a mask to a medical check-up but both the consultant and nurse were masked up. I'm not sure what any of this means but if we are re-running mask wars...

    Masking is part of the reason that Japan got through Covid with few deaths and little in the way of mandatory lockdowns.
    I don’t think it’s over yet.
    We will get waves of it from time to time, but between immunisation and past exposure it will be less severe.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Later today, I shall wear a mask to Sainsbury's. Yesterday, I did not wear a mask to a medical check-up but both the consultant and nurse were masked up. I'm not sure what any of this means but if we are re-running mask wars...

    Masking is part of the reason that Japan got through Covid with few deaths and little in the way of mandatory lockdowns.
    I don’t think it’s over yet.
    We will get waves of it from time to time, but between immunisation and past exposure it will be less severe.
    Sorry. I wasn’t really talking about our part of the world primarily.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,999



    We do care about the reports of a growing number of Ukrainian refugees now homeless on the streets of Britain - yet more Tory Party shame. If you gave up on what you are doing, citing cost of living or whatever excuse, what would happen to them? 🥺

    It would never happen (I will get kicked out before they do) but the trajectory would be obvious... taken into care, homelessness, coerced into sex work.

    One thing is for sure, they wouldn't be going back to Ukraine. Even if we had a they think it's all over, it is now moment and the war ended this weekend. Like many Ukrainian refugees in the UK (might be different elsewhere) they are from the eastern most parts of Ukraine because they were the parts that got totally fucked up first. So ours (from Kharkov) and many others like them are culturally and linguistically Russian so they are concerned about what their status will be in post-war Ukraine. The assumption is 'not good'. Do not confuse that trepidation with any desire to be part of VVP's Rysskiy Mir because it's not. They (amorphous group of Ukrainians I've got to know) like the EU, NATO, etc and want to be part of. Just not in Ukraine.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641
    Dura_Ace said:



    We do care about the reports of a growing number of Ukrainian refugees now homeless on the streets of Britain - yet more Tory Party shame. If you gave up on what you are doing, citing cost of living or whatever excuse, what would happen to them? 🥺

    It would never happen (I will get kicked out before they do) but the trajectory would be obvious... taken into care, homelessness, coerced into sex work.

    One thing is for sure, they wouldn't be going back to Ukraine. Even if we had a they think it's all over, it is now moment and the war ended this weekend. Like many Ukrainian refugees in the UK (might be different elsewhere) they are from the eastern most parts of Ukraine because they were the parts that got totally fucked up first. So ours (from Kharkov) and many others like them are culturally and linguistically Russian so they are concerned about what their status will be in post-war Ukraine. The assumption is 'not good'. Do not confuse that trepidation with any desire to be part of VVP's Rysskiy Mir because it's not. They (amorphous group of Ukrainians I've got to know) like the EU, NATO, etc and want to be part of. Just not in Ukraine.
    I suspect that most will stay. They have better lives here, and better futures.

    It is the nature of migration that people plan to go for a year or two, but the desire to go back fades as both migrant and home have changed. We cannot go back in time.

    One of my best friends came here 30 years ago to lay low for a year until things calmed down after the first Gulf War.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,981

    DJ41 said:

    Anecdata: manager at my local Co-op reckons it's been really busy and people are going spend, spend, spend. He's a bit of a dullard (ex-army), though, so perhaps he expected nobody to go shopping at all because that's what he'd read in the Daily Express. Anyway FWIW he says it's been remarkably busy. If he's right, maybe the banks are falling over themselves to lend. Or maybe people are simply thinking eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we get locked up, get the sack, catch a killer virus, or freeze.

    We've spent rather little this Christmas, to be honest.

    But then we have a newborn and my wife is on maternity leave.
    Wait to next year and especially the year after when your newborn knows who Santa is.

    The issue at the moment is that the economy is really a story of two halves. You have those who don’t have much money and find it impossible to pay for everything they need (hence food banks in hospitals for nurses and other low pay staff - just as an example).

    You then have the other half who may be retired ‘ working from home and can’t see what the fuss is about as while some costs have gone up they still have a £1000 (or way more) spending money left over after the bills.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    edited December 2022
    felix said:

    kle4 said:

    I think it's fair to say the government's poll ratings will get worse before they get better.

    I wonder what it's like to be a scab nurse right now.

    I would be very proud of any nurse choosing to work rather than calling them abusive names which reflects very badly on the perpetrator.
    I wasnt intending to be abusive, I'm on the governments side in saying it cannot afford what is being asked. I don't look down on scabbing, and wouldn't be insulted if someone called me a scab. Others do though, which is why I wonder what someone must feel like knowing their colleagues and much of the public will negatively judge them.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,613
    Resigned from Twitter today.

    Appreciate the opportunity, but didn’t think there was any real impact I could make there. Besides, it was sad to see my GitHub withering. Back to coding!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/realGeorgeHotz/status/1605341207109939201

    Meanwhile Musk says he thinks they'll be cash flow break even in 2023.
    Though his forecasting record isn't the best, that is interesting.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited December 2022
    Spot the incredibly obvious lay:

    World Cup - Winner
    jointly Canada/Mexico/US
    June – July 2026

    Brazil 7
    France 8
    England 10
    Argentina 11
    Germany 11
    Spain 12
    Portugal 17
    Netherlands 21
    Italy 26
    Belgium 34
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,200

    Spot the incredibly obvious lay:

    World Cup - Winner
    jointly Canada/Mexico/US
    June – July 2026

    Brazil 7
    France 8
    England 10
    Argentina 11
    Germany 11
    Spain 12
    Portugal 17
    Netherlands 21
    Italy 26
    Belgium 34

    Scotland?
    Sweden?
  • Options
    Morning all! On topic I cannot see a winning outcome either for the Tories or for their remaining desperate shills like the Daily Mail. Of all the groups they could attack, nurses is worses. They are not going to persuade people that the nurses are some militant commie group trying to bring down the country. Nor that the unaffiliated RCN is Labour's puppetmaster. Nor that refusal to negotiate is them being reasonable.

    So ultimately the government will back down and will lose. And in all the time it sit there sniffily attacking the perfidious NHS heroes it provides succour to the unions who really are trying to bring down the country.

    What they should have done was agreed to negotiate, avoided the strikes completely, and quietly reached a compromise whilst contrasting the heroic nurses against the evil train people. Instead we have this. Sunak is a spanner.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641
    kle4 said:

    felix said:

    kle4 said:

    I think it's fair to say the government's poll ratings will get worse before they get better.

    I wonder what it's like to be a scab nurse right now.

    I would be very proud of any nurse choosing to work rather than calling them abusive names which reflects very badly on the perpetrator.
    I wasnt intending to be abusive, I'm on the governments side in saying it cannot afford what is being asked. I don't look down on scabbing, and wouldn't be insulted if someone called me a scab. Others do though, which is why I wonder what someone must feel like knowing their colleagues and much of the public will negatively judge them.
    I don't think that the case as many nurses are not in the RCN, so will not be striking, and many RCN members are working as part of emergency cover. Same goes for the Ambulance staff. I wouldn't expect any abuse of those working.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,613

    Spot the incredibly obvious lay:

    World Cup - Winner
    jointly Canada/Mexico/US
    June – July 2026

    Brazil 7
    France 8
    England 10
    Argentina 11
    Germany 11
    Spain 12
    Portugal 17
    Netherlands 21
    Italy 26
    Belgium 34

    Four years ahead of time ?
    The obvious move would be to hang on to your cash.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,613
    No, just on brand.

    Strange? Via NYT: "House Democrats revealed that the materials they obtained showed that the I.R.S. had failed to audit Mr. Trump’s tax filings during his first two years in office, despite having a program that makes audits of sitting presidents mandatory."
    https://mobile.twitter.com/amandacarpenter/status/1605377339809988608
  • Options

    Spot the incredibly obvious lay:

    World Cup - Winner
    jointly Canada/Mexico/US
    June – July 2026

    Brazil 7
    France 8
    England 10
    Argentina 11
    Germany 11
    Spain 12
    Portugal 17
    Netherlands 21
    Italy 26
    Belgium 34

    Belgium, more golden shower than golden generation.

    I mean Italy are a great lay given their recent World Cup qualification record.

    The last time they won a World Cup knock out match was 2006.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    Spot the incredibly obvious lay:

    World Cup - Winner
    jointly Canada/Mexico/US
    June – July 2026

    Brazil 7
    France 8
    England 10
    Argentina 11
    Germany 11
    Spain 12
    Portugal 17
    Netherlands 21
    Italy 26
    Belgium 34

    Four years ahead of time ?
    The obvious move would be to hang on to your cash.
    Plus we’re not sure of the format.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641
    Nigelb said:

    Resigned from Twitter today.

    Appreciate the opportunity, but didn’t think there was any real impact I could make there. Besides, it was sad to see my GitHub withering. Back to coding!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/realGeorgeHotz/status/1605341207109939201

    Meanwhile Musk says he thinks they'll be cash flow break even in 2023.
    Though his forecasting record isn't the best, that is interesting.

    Is that forecast of "cash flow break even" because there will be neither income nor expenditure?
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,618
    edited December 2022
    Foxy said:

    Later today, I shall wear a mask to Sainsbury's. Yesterday, I did not wear a mask to a medical check-up but both the consultant and nurse were masked up. I'm not sure what any of this means but if we are re-running mask wars...

    Masking is part of the reason that Japan got through Covid with few deaths and little in the way of mandatory lockdowns.
    It’s always been one of those exotic forms of visible difference when visiting Japan - I used to notice it on business trips despite levels being much lower pre-Covid - and I suppose it’s returning to that now Europeans don’t wear masks anymore. It’s a shame, but does seem to be a cultural preference.

    I suppose an analogy would be if a global outbreak of head lice led us in the west all to start wearing hijabs. Then when the nits had dispersed we removed them but they remained ubiquitous in the Middle East.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Leon said:

    I'd just like to point out that, by the end of Clap for Carers I was BOOING THE CARERS

    Overpaid, workshy, generally obese yobbos who wear Crocs. Fuck em

    Every time you didn't Clap for Carers, an assistant anesthetist died.....
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Nigelb said:

    Spot the incredibly obvious lay:

    World Cup - Winner
    jointly Canada/Mexico/US
    June – July 2026

    Brazil 7
    France 8
    England 10
    Argentina 11
    Germany 11
    Spain 12
    Portugal 17
    Netherlands 21
    Italy 26
    Belgium 34

    Four years ahead of time ?
    The obvious move would be to hang on to your cash.
    If you had to I'd say backing Croatia is probably the best move here.
  • Options
    eek said:

    DJ41 said:

    Anecdata: manager at my local Co-op reckons it's been really busy and people are going spend, spend, spend. He's a bit of a dullard (ex-army), though, so perhaps he expected nobody to go shopping at all because that's what he'd read in the Daily Express. Anyway FWIW he says it's been remarkably busy. If he's right, maybe the banks are falling over themselves to lend. Or maybe people are simply thinking eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we get locked up, get the sack, catch a killer virus, or freeze.

    We've spent rather little this Christmas, to be honest.

    But then we have a newborn and my wife is on maternity leave.
    Wait to next year and especially the year after when your newborn knows who Santa is.

    The issue at the moment is that the economy is really a story of two halves. You have those who don’t have much money and find it impossible to pay for everything they need (hence food banks in hospitals for nurses and other low pay staff - just as an example).

    You then have the other half who may be retired ‘ working from home and can’t see what the fuss is about as while some costs have gone up they still have a £1000 (or way more) spending money left over after the bills.
    That tends to be the way in recessions, doesn't it? It's not that everyone loses five percent. Quite a lot of people carry on as normal while others go under.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Spot the incredibly obvious lay:

    World Cup - Winner
    jointly Canada/Mexico/US
    June – July 2026

    Brazil 7
    France 8
    England 10
    Argentina 11
    Germany 11
    Spain 12
    Portugal 17
    Netherlands 21
    Italy 26
    Belgium 34

    Germany at 11. Haven't made it out of the group twice in a row now and the talent factory has almost completely dried up, only Musiala rates from their young players.

    But then that's not the answer you wanted you anti-English arse.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Sunak has managed to back himself into a corner for no good reason. His lack of experience shows. He seems to lack political antennae.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,336
    Leon said:

    FPT for @Anabobazina on near 100% Japanese masking


    "This is excruciatingly sad, if true. What is the driver for this? I assumed they would have similar immunity to us?"

    +++

    My guess is it is a mixture of a naturally quite introverted people, and also a highly conformist society. Japan is not a nation of rebels. Until they get at least 40% of people unmasking (my random guess) then no one will dare to copy

    We saw it in the UK - and we are much more individualistic and bolshy. Recall the clap for carers, and the pressure to follow the crowd. Recall ALL THE BLOODY LOCKDOWNS

    It is also certainly true. I have friends in Bangkok who tell me that 100% masking has only now begun to wane in BKK, and they say in HK, Taiwan and Japan it is still dreadful

    it is indeed awful sad

    Tokyo always had lots of masks before Covid, on the basis that they kept out pollution. There's a difference in cultural habit there - there's no iron law that wearing a mask when you go out must spoil your quality of life any more than, say, wearing a hat.

    Relatedly - I know wfh is not equal lockdown, but this is quite interesting in offering some polling data on how much money people are willing to forego in order not to have to go out to work in an office:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/21/jacob-rees-mogg-alan-sugar-daily-mail-home-working-woke

    This isn't the way everyone feels, but I do wonder if wfh isn't going to gradually become the norm for office work, incidentally easing the shortage of job applicants (because you can recruit internationally). Anecdotally I know several organisations who are both struggling to recruit and losing staff because of a rigid policy requiring attendance in the office at least one day a week. It's only partly the appeal of being in your chosen home surroundings and not having to commute, but also the opportunity to move somewhere cheaper so your perhaps spartan home surroundings actually get BETTER.
  • Options
    Dura_Ace said:

    Ukrainian refugee update coz I know you all care... They both have NI numbers. The system works, sort of, eventually. #brokenbritain

    The elder has a job in a stables shoveling horseshit which she loves for some reason.

    The younger has a part time job in a shop (which I have to drive her to and from lol). I have told her that stealing from her employer is an essential act of militancy to fuck the capital owning class. This guidance was rejected by the recipient and then bitterly condemned by Mrs DA. She has made stellar progress in English (full credit to the teacher) and is going to try some GCSEs next year. Successfully deprogrammed her from wanting to be a cop, thank fuck.

    I take it this guidance to be militant and screw the capital owning class extends to you encouraging her to take whatever she wants from your house?
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138

    Spot the incredibly obvious lay:

    World Cup - Winner
    jointly Canada/Mexico/US
    June – July 2026

    Brazil 7
    France 8
    England 10
    Argentina 11
    Germany 11
    Spain 12
    Portugal 17
    Netherlands 21
    Italy 26
    Belgium 34

    Oooh! You're making an anti-English post. What an incredibly unexpected thing for you to do. Are we wound up enough for you? Are you enjoying our English faces twisted in paroxisms of rage at your little jokes, you little scamp you.

  • Options

    Dura_Ace said:

    Ukrainian refugee update coz I know you all care... They both have NI numbers. The system works, sort of, eventually. #brokenbritain

    The elder has a job in a stables shoveling horseshit which she loves for some reason.

    The younger has a part time job in a shop (which I have to drive her to and from lol). I have told her that stealing from her employer is an essential act of militancy to fuck the capital owning class. This guidance was rejected by the recipient and then bitterly condemned by Mrs DA. She has made stellar progress in English (full credit to the teacher) and is going to try some GCSEs next year. Successfully deprogrammed her from wanting to be a cop, thank fuck.

    Despite your hardman image and scepticism about Ukrainian nationalism you're actually doing a lot more for Ukrainian refugees than most of us manage. Are you a secret soft-hearted libtard?
    Yes, I think it's a performance act and a lot of piss and wind. Possibly just a bit of fantasy venting.

    I suspect he's perfectly pleasant and normal in real life, after all he teaches teenage girls languages and gives talks in the Red Wall on military aircraft.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    Spot the incredibly obvious lay:

    World Cup - Winner
    jointly Canada/Mexico/US
    June – July 2026

    Brazil 7
    France 8
    England 10
    Argentina 11
    Germany 11
    Spain 12
    Portugal 17
    Netherlands 21
    Italy 26
    Belgium 34

    Four years ahead of time ?
    The obvious move would be to hang on to your cash.
    He's making an anti-English point, not giving a betting tip.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,391
    edited December 2022
    Nigelb said:

    Resigned from Twitter today.

    Appreciate the opportunity, but didn’t think there was any real impact I could make there. Besides, it was sad to see my GitHub withering. Back to coding!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/realGeorgeHotz/status/1605341207109939201

    Meanwhile Musk says he thinks they'll be cash flow break even in 2023.
    Though his forecasting record isn't the best, that is interesting.

    Superstar coder finds the sacked Twitter programmers had not done as bad a job as Musk thought?
  • Options
    DougSeal said:

    Spot the incredibly obvious lay:

    World Cup - Winner
    jointly Canada/Mexico/US
    June – July 2026

    Brazil 7
    France 8
    England 10
    Argentina 11
    Germany 11
    Spain 12
    Portugal 17
    Netherlands 21
    Italy 26
    Belgium 34

    Oooh! You're making an anti-English post. What an incredibly unexpected thing for you to do. Are we wound up enough for you? Are you enjoying our English faces twisted in paroxisms of rage at your little jokes, you little scamp you.

    It's an inferiority complex. He secretly quite likes England - remember that post he made about how much he enjoyed visiting Henley and having tea and cakes? - but he quietly hates himself for that.

    There's so much going on here and, at the same time, so little.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Nigelb said:

    Spot the incredibly obvious lay:

    World Cup - Winner
    jointly Canada/Mexico/US
    June – July 2026

    Brazil 7
    France 8
    England 10
    Argentina 11
    Germany 11
    Spain 12
    Portugal 17
    Netherlands 21
    Italy 26
    Belgium 34

    Four years ahead of time ?
    The obvious move would be to hang on to your cash.
    He's making an anti-English point, not giving a betting tip.
    "But but but England has 11 times the population"

    SPOT THE LAY

    Population & World cup odds (Top price)

    Uruguay 3.485 Million 50-1
    Croatia 3.899 Million 66-1
    Norway 5.408 Million 100-1
    North Macedonia 2.065 Million 150-1
    Scotland 5.454 Million 500-1
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    So, how does Sunak get out of this dead end? How does he negotiate, without losing face?
  • Options

    Leon said:

    FPT for @Anabobazina on near 100% Japanese masking


    "This is excruciatingly sad, if true. What is the driver for this? I assumed they would have similar immunity to us?"

    +++

    My guess is it is a mixture of a naturally quite introverted people, and also a highly conformist society. Japan is not a nation of rebels. Until they get at least 40% of people unmasking (my random guess) then no one will dare to copy

    We saw it in the UK - and we are much more individualistic and bolshy. Recall the clap for carers, and the pressure to follow the crowd. Recall ALL THE BLOODY LOCKDOWNS

    It is also certainly true. I have friends in Bangkok who tell me that 100% masking has only now begun to wane in BKK, and they say in HK, Taiwan and Japan it is still dreadful

    it is indeed awful sad

    Tokyo always had lots of masks before Covid, on the basis that they kept out pollution. There's a difference in cultural habit there - there's no iron law that wearing a mask when you go out must spoil your quality of life any more than, say, wearing a hat.

    Relatedly - I know wfh is not equal lockdown, but this is quite interesting in offering some polling data on how much money people are willing to forego in order not to have to go out to work in an office:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/21/jacob-rees-mogg-alan-sugar-daily-mail-home-working-woke

    This isn't the way everyone feels, but I do wonder if wfh isn't going to gradually become the norm for office work, incidentally easing the shortage of job applicants (because you can recruit internationally). Anecdotally I know several organisations who are both struggling to recruit and losing staff because of a rigid policy requiring attendance in the office at least one day a week. It's only partly the appeal of being in your chosen home surroundings and not having to commute, but also the opportunity to move somewhere cheaper so your perhaps spartan home surroundings actually get BETTER.
    Six to ten percent for a couple of WFH days a week. That makes sense in terms of the time saved not having to commute. Let alone all the other stuff.

    (Call it a forty hour week to make the sums easy. Ten percent is four hours. There are plenty of people whose home to work journey is an hour each way. One of the problems with having an economy that depends so much on money earned in London is the travel time that imposes on people.)
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    DougSeal said:

    Spot the incredibly obvious lay:

    World Cup - Winner
    jointly Canada/Mexico/US
    June – July 2026

    Brazil 7
    France 8
    England 10
    Argentina 11
    Germany 11
    Spain 12
    Portugal 17
    Netherlands 21
    Italy 26
    Belgium 34

    Oooh! You're making an anti-English post. What an incredibly unexpected thing for you to do. Are we wound up enough for you? Are you enjoying our English faces twisted in paroxisms of rage at your little jokes, you little scamp you.

    The best/worst bit is that it shows his complete lack of knowledge about football because the obvious lay in that list is Germany, not England. I find it a little bit sad that a person's existence seems to be based around hatred with a huge dollop of overcompensation.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138

    DougSeal said:

    Spot the incredibly obvious lay:

    World Cup - Winner
    jointly Canada/Mexico/US
    June – July 2026

    Brazil 7
    France 8
    England 10
    Argentina 11
    Germany 11
    Spain 12
    Portugal 17
    Netherlands 21
    Italy 26
    Belgium 34

    Oooh! You're making an anti-English post. What an incredibly unexpected thing for you to do. Are we wound up enough for you? Are you enjoying our English faces twisted in paroxisms of rage at your little jokes, you little scamp you.

    It's an inferiority complex. He secretly quite likes England - remember that post he made about how much he enjoyed visiting Henley and having tea and cakes? - but he quietly hates himself for that.

    There's so much going on here and, at the same time, so little.
    I really don’t think he does like England or the English.
  • Options

    Leon said:

    FPT for @Anabobazina on near 100% Japanese masking


    "This is excruciatingly sad, if true. What is the driver for this? I assumed they would have similar immunity to us?"

    +++

    My guess is it is a mixture of a naturally quite introverted people, and also a highly conformist society. Japan is not a nation of rebels. Until they get at least 40% of people unmasking (my random guess) then no one will dare to copy

    We saw it in the UK - and we are much more individualistic and bolshy. Recall the clap for carers, and the pressure to follow the crowd. Recall ALL THE BLOODY LOCKDOWNS

    It is also certainly true. I have friends in Bangkok who tell me that 100% masking has only now begun to wane in BKK, and they say in HK, Taiwan and Japan it is still dreadful

    it is indeed awful sad

    Tokyo always had lots of masks before Covid, on the basis that they kept out pollution. There's a difference in cultural habit there - there's no iron law that wearing a mask when you go out must spoil your quality of life any more than, say, wearing a hat.

    Relatedly - I know wfh is not equal lockdown, but this is quite interesting in offering some polling data on how much money people are willing to forego in order not to have to go out to work in an office:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/21/jacob-rees-mogg-alan-sugar-daily-mail-home-working-woke

    This isn't the way everyone feels, but I do wonder if wfh isn't going to gradually become the norm for office work, incidentally easing the shortage of job applicants (because you can recruit internationally). Anecdotally I know several organisations who are both struggling to recruit and losing staff because of a rigid policy requiring attendance in the office at least one day a week. It's only partly the appeal of being in your chosen home surroundings and not having to commute, but also the opportunity to move somewhere cheaper so your perhaps spartan home surroundings actually get BETTER.
    Commuting is easy once you get used to it, whether you spend the time working, reading the paper, or reading pb on your phone, but once a week means never getting used to it. Instead of becoming routine, infrequent commuting will always be a chore.

    As to the rest, workers might relish the chance for London salaries with red wall living costs, but employers will be looking to pay red wall salaries or lower. Long before Covid, British and American companies outsourced to India, the Philippines or Eastern Europe in order to pay their workforce less (a lot less) not so their existing employees could move to more exotic locations.
  • Options

    Morning all! On topic I cannot see a winning outcome either for the Tories or for their remaining desperate shills like the Daily Mail. Of all the groups they could attack, nurses is worses. They are not going to persuade people that the nurses are some militant commie group trying to bring down the country. Nor that the unaffiliated RCN is Labour's puppetmaster. Nor that refusal to negotiate is them being reasonable.

    So ultimately the government will back down and will lose. And in all the time it sit there sniffily attacking the perfidious NHS heroes it provides succour to the unions who really are trying to bring down the country.

    What they should have done was agreed to negotiate, avoided the strikes completely, and quietly reached a compromise whilst contrasting the heroic nurses against the evil train people. Instead we have this. Sunak is a spanner.

    Same goes for the ambulance drivers. They are going out of their way to try and make sure that they don't end up killing people (for obvious reasons both humanitarian and public relations) and all the Trusts/Unions have procedures in place where they can ask for staff from the picket line if there are emergency cases to be answered.

    These are not militant, politically motivated actions, they are a cry for help. I just don't see any way that Sunak wins, all the more so if he does 'win' in the dispute. Not least because he will draw exactly the wrong conclusion from such a 'victory'.
This discussion has been closed.