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The Dems win the Georgia runoff and now the Senate is 51-49 – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,048
edited December 2022 in General
The Dems win the Georgia runoff and now the Senate is 51-49 – politicalbetting.com

Georgia Senate Runoff (estimated >95% in):Warnock (D-inc) 50.8%Walker (R) 49.2%Via: @nytimes pic.twitter.com/oGZM30AgSB

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Comments

  • That NYT info is out of date, currently Warnock 51.3% versus Walker 48.7%, with +92k margin for the Senator.
  • Now Dr. Oz has some company, in the "How To Lose The Election While Trashing Your Reputation" Club.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,550
    edited December 2022
    OT I'm going to cancel my Labour Party membership and also revisit my plan to give them my British Gas shares.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vpns-online-safety-bill-labour-champion-b2239810.html

    These maniacs won't rest until the entire internet is child-safe.
  • Titania McGrath walks among us yet:

    Musk has argued that Twitter ought to be a place where all political viewpoints can be aired. But keeping people informed can have dire consequences. Democracy has no chance of working properly if people keep insisting on voting for the wrong candidates.

    Like many on the left, I have decided to delete my Twitter account in protest. Musk won’t know what hit him. Without my wisdom on the platform, the company will soon collapse into oblivion. There will be an outcry, share prices will plummet, and Musk will come begging for me to return. But I shall stand firm.

    Come to think of it, maybe I should wait until next week to delete my account. I’ve got a book to sell.


    https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/december-january-2023/elon-musk-worse-than-hitler/

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,767
    It's going to be a slow learning process, Mike.

    Flipped over to Fox to see how they're covering the Georgia election, and if you guessed that instead of covering it at all they're talking about Hunter Biden, guess what you're right
    https://mobile.twitter.com/paulwaldman1/status/1600336231853760512
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,767
    Alternative headline.

    Tommy Tuberville retains his title as dumbest Senator
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,077

    OT I'm going to cancel my Labour Party membership and also revisit my plan to give them my British Gas shares.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vpns-online-safety-bill-labour-champion-b2239810.html

    These maniacs won't rest until the entire internet is child-safe.

    Well there's surely nothing maniacal about wanting the entire internet to be child-safe. Unless you're a paedophile. And that's a pretty OTT reason to cancel a party membership? Somewhat of an over-reaction, no? As a left-leaner there are other things that would cause me to drop support.

    However, I do agree otherwise and I suspect this is grandstanding by Labour. I don't see how they can restrict VPN's. They will always exist and, as y'all know, I use them for protecting my online privacy. In many ways I think everyone should use a VPN. The amount of snooping used by tech is beyond insidious. It's downright evil.

    An example. I was having a face to face chat with someone recently. My phone was sitting on the table between us. Not connected to anything except 4G. I happened to mention in conversation a pretty esoteric place I had visited in Germany. It's not a place that I had talked about to anyone for over a year, and it was three years since I visited it.

    5 minutes later an email arrived in my inbox from that venue.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,330
    This result surely confirms Trump's reputation as a loser and will weaken his hold on the GOP. Good. The Trump Corporation was also convicted of multiple charges of fraud, tax evasion and false accounting yesterday. The net is slowly closing.
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/12/6/2140383/-Trump-Organization-verdict
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,330
    Slightly less optimistically the result also shows that pollsters are still having problems in picking up segments of the GOP vote who just won't respond to them. The vote is roughly 2% closer than the polls were indicating.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,214
    Heathener said:

    OT I'm going to cancel my Labour Party membership and also revisit my plan to give them my British Gas shares.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vpns-online-safety-bill-labour-champion-b2239810.html

    These maniacs won't rest until the entire internet is child-safe.

    Well there's surely nothing maniacal about wanting the entire internet to be child-safe. Unless you're a paedophile. And that's a pretty OTT reason to cancel a party membership? Somewhat of an over-reaction, no? As a left-leaner there are other things that would cause me to drop support.

    However, I do agree otherwise and I suspect this is grandstanding by Labour. I don't see how they can restrict VPN's. They will always exist and, as y'all know, I use them for protecting my online privacy. In many ways I think everyone should use a VPN. The amount of snooping used by tech is beyond insidious. It's downright evil.

    An example. I was having a face to face chat with someone recently. My phone was sitting on the table between us. Not connected to anything except 4G. I happened to mention in conversation a pretty esoteric place I had visited in Germany. It's not a place that I had talked about to anyone for over a year, and it was three years since I visited it.

    5 minutes later an email arrived in my inbox from that venue.
    I had a similar realisation 4 years ago, we were in a meeting and agreed to go to a pub later that day with a very unique name. The phone was listening to the discussion and as soon as I typed in the first letter of the pub into google (to get directions) it immediately recognised what I was looking for and provided directions. I never wanted this service, but now we have 'evolved' to rely on it.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited December 2022

    OT I'm going to cancel my Labour Party membership and also revisit my plan to give them my British Gas shares.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vpns-online-safety-bill-labour-champion-b2239810.html

    These maniacs won't rest until the entire internet is child-safe.

    If the safeguard is “credit card to prove age” why is the VPN stuff necessary?

    How do Labour think people pay for VPNs?
  • OT I'm going to cancel my Labour Party membership and also revisit my plan to give them my British Gas shares.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vpns-online-safety-bill-labour-champion-b2239810.html

    These maniacs won't rest until the entire internet is child-safe.

    If the safeguard is “credit card to prove age” why is the VPN stuff necessary?

    How do Labour think people pay for VPNs?
    Drug money!i
  • On topic, there is hope that America will step back from the brink. Does feel like the Gilead movement pushed things too far by trying to ban abortion and then talking about banning women leaving those states.

    They either seize power as was the plan or they face being out-voted.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,962
    And I presume they’ll want some way to permit company vpns to work in their no-vpn walled garden?
    Otherwise working from home goes away completely.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,767
    You can buy the party, but thankfully not yet the electorate.

    The biggest losers in the US midterm elections? Republican mega-donors
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/06/republican-mega-donors-lost-midterms-super-pac-thiel
    Donors like Peter Thiel poured millions into candidates that no amount of money could sell to voters while Mehmet Oz self-funded a failed run
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,847
    edited December 2022
    Morning to everyone.

    Extradordinary story just reported on R4 today - German police just broken up a huge far-terrorist group, first who were planning to raid the bundestag, and in the last analysis including a 70-year old aristocrat they were planning to install as head of state ( ! ).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,767
    First batch of K2, K9 arrives in Poland
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=341288

    The first batch of 24 K9 self-propelled howitzers and 10 K2 battle tanks has been delivered to Poland, Tuesday (local time), according to South Korean defense companies.

    The shipment came after Poland signed a purchase agreement in July for 980 K2 battle tanks from Hyundai Rotem and 648 K9 self-propelled howitzers from Hanwha Aerospace as well as 48 FA-50 light attack aircraft from South Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The deal was among South Korea's most important and largest defense orders in recent years. They also signed with Warsaw's Armament Agency a follow-up arrangement to the "framework" contract in August. ...

    ...For Hanwha's part, it also plans to build an advanced MRO center in Poland to provide efficient logistics support to Poland and other K9 user countries across the European region.

    ..."Hanwha is committed to making Poland a hub for the supply of K9 systems in Europe based on stronger partnership with the government of Poland."


    European defence manufacturers have some serious competition for the rearming of NATO.
  • Nigelb said:

    First batch of K2, K9 arrives in Poland
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=341288

    The first batch of 24 K9 self-propelled howitzers and 10 K2 battle tanks has been delivered to Poland, Tuesday (local time), according to South Korean defense companies.

    The shipment came after Poland signed a purchase agreement in July for 980 K2 battle tanks from Hyundai Rotem and 648 K9 self-propelled howitzers from Hanwha Aerospace as well as 48 FA-50 light attack aircraft from South Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The deal was among South Korea's most important and largest defense orders in recent years. They also signed with Warsaw's Armament Agency a follow-up arrangement to the "framework" contract in August. ...

    ...For Hanwha's part, it also plans to build an advanced MRO center in Poland to provide efficient logistics support to Poland and other K9 user countries across the European region.

    ..."Hanwha is committed to making Poland a hub for the supply of K9 systems in Europe based on stronger partnership with the government of Poland."


    European defence manufacturers have some serious competition for the rearming of NATO.

    After all the NAFO support that Ukraine has been getting, there's something fitting about K9 weaponry going to Kyiv.
  • All mouth no…policy

    Scotland’s lead in decarbonising over the rest of the UK has now been lost. Progress is now broadly the same as the UK as a whole. Two years after the publication of the Climate Change Plan update, we do not see evidence of sufficient action to meet the Scottish Parliament’s ambition. There are now glaring gaps in the Scottish Government’s climate plan and particular concerns about the achievement of the 2030 goal to cut emissions by 75%:

    https://www.theccc.org.uk/2022/12/07/scotlands-climate-targets-are-in-danger-of-becoming-meaningless/
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Nigelb said:

    First batch of K2, K9 arrives in Poland
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=341288

    The first batch of 24 K9 self-propelled howitzers and 10 K2 battle tanks has been delivered to Poland, Tuesday (local time), according to South Korean defense companies.

    The shipment came after Poland signed a purchase agreement in July for 980 K2 battle tanks from Hyundai Rotem and 648 K9 self-propelled howitzers from Hanwha Aerospace as well as 48 FA-50 light attack aircraft from South Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The deal was among South Korea's most important and largest defense orders in recent years. They also signed with Warsaw's Armament Agency a follow-up arrangement to the "framework" contract in August. ...

    ...For Hanwha's part, it also plans to build an advanced MRO center in Poland to provide efficient logistics support to Poland and other K9 user countries across the European region.

    ..."Hanwha is committed to making Poland a hub for the supply of K9 systems in Europe based on stronger partnership with the government of Poland."


    European defence manufacturers have some serious competition for the rearming of NATO.

    Poland seem to be the only European country that is seriously preparing themselves for a US disengagement from NATO. They are in a rough neighbourhood and can't afford the luxury of complacency.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,632

    Nigelb said:

    First batch of K2, K9 arrives in Poland
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=341288

    The first batch of 24 K9 self-propelled howitzers and 10 K2 battle tanks has been delivered to Poland, Tuesday (local time), according to South Korean defense companies.

    The shipment came after Poland signed a purchase agreement in July for 980 K2 battle tanks from Hyundai Rotem and 648 K9 self-propelled howitzers from Hanwha Aerospace as well as 48 FA-50 light attack aircraft from South Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The deal was among South Korea's most important and largest defense orders in recent years. They also signed with Warsaw's Armament Agency a follow-up arrangement to the "framework" contract in August. ...

    ...For Hanwha's part, it also plans to build an advanced MRO center in Poland to provide efficient logistics support to Poland and other K9 user countries across the European region.

    ..."Hanwha is committed to making Poland a hub for the supply of K9 systems in Europe based on stronger partnership with the government of Poland."


    European defence manufacturers have some serious competition for the rearming of NATO.

    After all the NAFO support that Ukraine has been getting, there's something fitting about K9 weaponry going to Kyiv.
    Do they charge per UNIT?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,738
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    First batch of K2, K9 arrives in Poland
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=341288

    The first batch of 24 K9 self-propelled howitzers and 10 K2 battle tanks has been delivered to Poland, Tuesday (local time), according to South Korean defense companies.

    The shipment came after Poland signed a purchase agreement in July for 980 K2 battle tanks from Hyundai Rotem and 648 K9 self-propelled howitzers from Hanwha Aerospace as well as 48 FA-50 light attack aircraft from South Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The deal was among South Korea's most important and largest defense orders in recent years. They also signed with Warsaw's Armament Agency a follow-up arrangement to the "framework" contract in August. ...

    ...For Hanwha's part, it also plans to build an advanced MRO center in Poland to provide efficient logistics support to Poland and other K9 user countries across the European region.

    ..."Hanwha is committed to making Poland a hub for the supply of K9 systems in Europe based on stronger partnership with the government of Poland."


    European defence manufacturers have some serious competition for the rearming of NATO.

    After all the NAFO support that Ukraine has been getting, there's something fitting about K9 weaponry going to Kyiv.
    Do they charge per UNIT?
    Who would suggest that?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,632
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    First batch of K2, K9 arrives in Poland
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=341288

    The first batch of 24 K9 self-propelled howitzers and 10 K2 battle tanks has been delivered to Poland, Tuesday (local time), according to South Korean defense companies.

    The shipment came after Poland signed a purchase agreement in July for 980 K2 battle tanks from Hyundai Rotem and 648 K9 self-propelled howitzers from Hanwha Aerospace as well as 48 FA-50 light attack aircraft from South Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The deal was among South Korea's most important and largest defense orders in recent years. They also signed with Warsaw's Armament Agency a follow-up arrangement to the "framework" contract in August. ...

    ...For Hanwha's part, it also plans to build an advanced MRO center in Poland to provide efficient logistics support to Poland and other K9 user countries across the European region.

    ..."Hanwha is committed to making Poland a hub for the supply of K9 systems in Europe based on stronger partnership with the government of Poland."


    European defence manufacturers have some serious competition for the rearming of NATO.

    After all the NAFO support that Ukraine has been getting, there's something fitting about K9 weaponry going to Kyiv.
    Do they charge per UNIT?
    Who would suggest that?
    Me. As a Master of punning.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,738

    Nigelb said:

    First batch of K2, K9 arrives in Poland
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=341288

    The first batch of 24 K9 self-propelled howitzers and 10 K2 battle tanks has been delivered to Poland, Tuesday (local time), according to South Korean defense companies.

    The shipment came after Poland signed a purchase agreement in July for 980 K2 battle tanks from Hyundai Rotem and 648 K9 self-propelled howitzers from Hanwha Aerospace as well as 48 FA-50 light attack aircraft from South Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The deal was among South Korea's most important and largest defense orders in recent years. They also signed with Warsaw's Armament Agency a follow-up arrangement to the "framework" contract in August. ...

    ...For Hanwha's part, it also plans to build an advanced MRO center in Poland to provide efficient logistics support to Poland and other K9 user countries across the European region.

    ..."Hanwha is committed to making Poland a hub for the supply of K9 systems in Europe based on stronger partnership with the government of Poland."


    European defence manufacturers have some serious competition for the rearming of NATO.

    After all the NAFO support that Ukraine has been getting, there's something fitting about K9 weaponry going to Kyiv.
    Poland, not Ukraine, though it did allow Poland to pass on its older kit to Ukraine.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,847
    edited December 2022
    Here we go :

    https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/germany-arrests-far-right-group-planning-coup

    Seems to have been a reasonably large group, expecting help from members of the armed forces, Trump-stylee.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,962
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    First batch of K2, K9 arrives in Poland
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=341288

    The first batch of 24 K9 self-propelled howitzers and 10 K2 battle tanks has been delivered to Poland, Tuesday (local time), according to South Korean defense companies.

    The shipment came after Poland signed a purchase agreement in July for 980 K2 battle tanks from Hyundai Rotem and 648 K9 self-propelled howitzers from Hanwha Aerospace as well as 48 FA-50 light attack aircraft from South Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The deal was among South Korea's most important and largest defense orders in recent years. They also signed with Warsaw's Armament Agency a follow-up arrangement to the "framework" contract in August. ...

    ...For Hanwha's part, it also plans to build an advanced MRO center in Poland to provide efficient logistics support to Poland and other K9 user countries across the European region.

    ..."Hanwha is committed to making Poland a hub for the supply of K9 systems in Europe based on stronger partnership with the government of Poland."


    European defence manufacturers have some serious competition for the rearming of NATO.

    After all the NAFO support that Ukraine has been getting, there's something fitting about K9 weaponry going to Kyiv.
    Do they charge per UNIT?
    Who would suggest that?
    Me. As a Master of punning.
    Is this where I get to boast that one achievement of mine that my kids were impressed by when I was in the RAF was successfully getting the name accepted for the Tactical Airfield Radar Display cabins project.
  • BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,455
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/dec/06/government-will-not-intervene-to-help-famers-with-rising-food-prices-therese-coffey-says

    Tories - only concerned with preserving the capital wealth of rich country landowners on the excuse that it preserves the countryside, by pampering them with massive IHT relief.

    When it comes to helping the actual farmers make a living - piss off, they say.

    "The government has ruled out making any intervention in the market to help farmers or consumers with high food prices, the environment secretary, Thérèse Coffey, has said.

    Food prices have soared in the past year, in part owing to higher input prices such as energy, fertiliser and animal feed. Last month, food price inflation hit a fresh high of 12.4%, with poorer households hit hardest.

    Farmers have also complained that supermarkets are driving down the prices they pay to producers at the farmgate, leaving them making tiny profits. A report published last week by the food charity Sustain found farmers made less than a tenth of a penny in profit from a supermarket loaf selling to consumers for £1.14, and just a penny in profit from a £2.50 block of mild cheddar cheese.

    But Coffey, secretary of state for environment food and rural affairs since Rishi Sunak took office in September, refused to criticise supermarkets and said the government would not be taking action."
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,632
    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    First batch of K2, K9 arrives in Poland
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=341288

    The first batch of 24 K9 self-propelled howitzers and 10 K2 battle tanks has been delivered to Poland, Tuesday (local time), according to South Korean defense companies.

    The shipment came after Poland signed a purchase agreement in July for 980 K2 battle tanks from Hyundai Rotem and 648 K9 self-propelled howitzers from Hanwha Aerospace as well as 48 FA-50 light attack aircraft from South Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The deal was among South Korea's most important and largest defense orders in recent years. They also signed with Warsaw's Armament Agency a follow-up arrangement to the "framework" contract in August. ...

    ...For Hanwha's part, it also plans to build an advanced MRO center in Poland to provide efficient logistics support to Poland and other K9 user countries across the European region.

    ..."Hanwha is committed to making Poland a hub for the supply of K9 systems in Europe based on stronger partnership with the government of Poland."


    European defence manufacturers have some serious competition for the rearming of NATO.

    After all the NAFO support that Ukraine has been getting, there's something fitting about K9 weaponry going to Kyiv.
    Do they charge per UNIT?
    Who would suggest that?
    Me. As a Master of punning.
    Is this where I get to boast that one achievement of mine that my kids were impressed by when I was in the RAF was successfully getting the name accepted for the Tactical Airfield Radar Display cabins project.
    The new PLM mode for F/A-18E/F and EA-18G used for carrier approaches is called Maritime Augmented Guidance with Integrated Controls for Carrier Approach and Recovery Precision Enabling Technologies.
    How's its reliability? Is it rug-ged?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,632
    First proper frost of the winter this morning, incidentally.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,849

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    First batch of K2, K9 arrives in Poland
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=341288

    The first batch of 24 K9 self-propelled howitzers and 10 K2 battle tanks has been delivered to Poland, Tuesday (local time), according to South Korean defense companies.

    The shipment came after Poland signed a purchase agreement in July for 980 K2 battle tanks from Hyundai Rotem and 648 K9 self-propelled howitzers from Hanwha Aerospace as well as 48 FA-50 light attack aircraft from South Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The deal was among South Korea's most important and largest defense orders in recent years. They also signed with Warsaw's Armament Agency a follow-up arrangement to the "framework" contract in August. ...

    ...For Hanwha's part, it also plans to build an advanced MRO center in Poland to provide efficient logistics support to Poland and other K9 user countries across the European region.

    ..."Hanwha is committed to making Poland a hub for the supply of K9 systems in Europe based on stronger partnership with the government of Poland."


    European defence manufacturers have some serious competition for the rearming of NATO.

    After all the NAFO support that Ukraine has been getting, there's something fitting about K9 weaponry going to Kyiv.
    Do they charge per UNIT?
    Who would suggest that?
    Me. As a Master of punning.
    Is this where I get to boast that one achievement of mine that my kids were impressed by when I was in the RAF was successfully getting the name accepted for the Tactical Airfield Radar Display cabins project.
    And what TARD is?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,767
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    First batch of K2, K9 arrives in Poland
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=341288

    The first batch of 24 K9 self-propelled howitzers and 10 K2 battle tanks has been delivered to Poland, Tuesday (local time), according to South Korean defense companies.

    The shipment came after Poland signed a purchase agreement in July for 980 K2 battle tanks from Hyundai Rotem and 648 K9 self-propelled howitzers from Hanwha Aerospace as well as 48 FA-50 light attack aircraft from South Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The deal was among South Korea's most important and largest defense orders in recent years. They also signed with Warsaw's Armament Agency a follow-up arrangement to the "framework" contract in August. ...

    ...For Hanwha's part, it also plans to build an advanced MRO center in Poland to provide efficient logistics support to Poland and other K9 user countries across the European region.

    ..."Hanwha is committed to making Poland a hub for the supply of K9 systems in Europe based on stronger partnership with the government of Poland."


    European defence manufacturers have some serious competition for the rearming of NATO.

    Poland seem to be the only European country that is seriously preparing themselves for a US disengagement from NATO. They are in a rough neighbourhood and can't afford the luxury of complacency.
    That and the Baltic states - though their ability to defend themselves is of course limited.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    First batch of K2, K9 arrives in Poland
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=341288

    The first batch of 24 K9 self-propelled howitzers and 10 K2 battle tanks has been delivered to Poland, Tuesday (local time), according to South Korean defense companies.

    The shipment came after Poland signed a purchase agreement in July for 980 K2 battle tanks from Hyundai Rotem and 648 K9 self-propelled howitzers from Hanwha Aerospace as well as 48 FA-50 light attack aircraft from South Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The deal was among South Korea's most important and largest defense orders in recent years. They also signed with Warsaw's Armament Agency a follow-up arrangement to the "framework" contract in August. ...

    ...For Hanwha's part, it also plans to build an advanced MRO center in Poland to provide efficient logistics support to Poland and other K9 user countries across the European region.

    ..."Hanwha is committed to making Poland a hub for the supply of K9 systems in Europe based on stronger partnership with the government of Poland."


    European defence manufacturers have some serious competition for the rearming of NATO.

    Poland seem to be the only European country that is seriously preparing themselves for a US disengagement from NATO.
    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against?
    See above.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,849

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Germany has not had a good war

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
    Your position on this strikes me as incredibly bizarre since it seems based on the idea no one has any interests anywhere in the world, and thus spending is only needed to prevent the home country itself being attacked, when major wars nearby do have wider impacts, as we've seen, and being capable of assisting others is a pretty sensible contingency.

    Christ just minutes ago you were making the sensible point about Europe being too reliant on the USA, which might disengage, and you've bemoaned the ally nations being effectively under US command as a result in the past.

    So which is it, is spending unnecessary or necessary? You described Poland as being in a rough neighbourhood. And it is indeed closer to the rough stuff. But is Poland very far from Germany? How far from the rough neighbourhood are they?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,767
    edited December 2022
    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
    Defence spending plans for the next decade, not next year.
    A similar argument over the last decade is what led to Putin thinking he could get away with his Ukrainian gamble.

    And your 8:05 comment backs that up.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,849
    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
    There is a commitment to their partners in OTAN

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,738
    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    First batch of K2, K9 arrives in Poland
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=341288

    The first batch of 24 K9 self-propelled howitzers and 10 K2 battle tanks has been delivered to Poland, Tuesday (local time), according to South Korean defense companies.

    The shipment came after Poland signed a purchase agreement in July for 980 K2 battle tanks from Hyundai Rotem and 648 K9 self-propelled howitzers from Hanwha Aerospace as well as 48 FA-50 light attack aircraft from South Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The deal was among South Korea's most important and largest defense orders in recent years. They also signed with Warsaw's Armament Agency a follow-up arrangement to the "framework" contract in August. ...

    ...For Hanwha's part, it also plans to build an advanced MRO center in Poland to provide efficient logistics support to Poland and other K9 user countries across the European region.

    ..."Hanwha is committed to making Poland a hub for the supply of K9 systems in Europe based on stronger partnership with the government of Poland."


    European defence manufacturers have some serious competition for the rearming of NATO.

    After all the NAFO support that Ukraine has been getting, there's something fitting about K9 weaponry going to Kyiv.
    Do they charge per UNIT?
    Who would suggest that?
    Me. As a Master of punning.
    Is this where I get to boast that one achievement of mine that my kids were impressed by when I was in the RAF was successfully getting the name accepted for the Tactical Airfield Radar Display cabins project.
    The new PLM mode for F/A-18E/F and EA-18G used for carrier approaches is called Maritime Augmented Guidance with Integrated Controls for Carrier Approach and Recovery Precision Enabling Technologies.
    How's its reliability? Is it rug-ged?
    I think this is off thread...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    ydoethur said:

    First proper frost of the winter this morning, incidentally.

    Traction control was cutting in all the way to the top of 3rd (~125mph) when I took the GSX-R out for a canter.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,738
    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
    Indeed, it does look that with the Russian bear being declared, the risk of conventional war in Central Europe is at its lowest risk for some time.

    Haven't we also cut back on our spending commitment, or at least pushed it into the future?
  • Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine authorised for use in infants and children aged 6 months to 4 years
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine-authorised-for-use-in-infants-and-children-aged-6-months-to-4-years
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    edited December 2022

    Morning to everyone.

    Extradordinary story just reported on R4 today - German police just broken up a huge far-terrorist group, first who were planning to raid the bundestag, and in the last analysis including a 70-year old aristocrat they were planning to install as head of state ( ! ).

    Is there a Delusion epidemic circulating through the Right?

    Trump's 'election steal' crap, Truss's neoliberal nonsense, and now this. WTAF were they thinking? Any of them.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
    Indeed, it does look that with the Russian bear being declared, the risk of conventional war in Central Europe is at its lowest risk for some time.

    Haven't we also cut back on our spending commitment, or at least pushed it into the future?
    Who knows. This government is thinking any further than next week's Sophy Ridge interview on any subject at all.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    O/T First world problem, I know, but I need to replace my lease car in the next 9 months.

    Should I go early or wait? Prices going up or will the recession cut demand and lead to price falls next summer?

  • DavidL said:

    Slightly less optimistically the result also shows that pollsters are still having problems in picking up segments of the GOP vote who just won't respond to them. The vote is roughly 2% closer than the polls were indicating.

    The last I saw was that Warnock had a three-point lead. That was pretty much the polling sweet spot, wasn't it?

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    First batch of K2, K9 arrives in Poland
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=341288

    The first batch of 24 K9 self-propelled howitzers and 10 K2 battle tanks has been delivered to Poland, Tuesday (local time), according to South Korean defense companies.

    The shipment came after Poland signed a purchase agreement in July for 980 K2 battle tanks from Hyundai Rotem and 648 K9 self-propelled howitzers from Hanwha Aerospace as well as 48 FA-50 light attack aircraft from South Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The deal was among South Korea's most important and largest defense orders in recent years. They also signed with Warsaw's Armament Agency a follow-up arrangement to the "framework" contract in August. ...

    ...For Hanwha's part, it also plans to build an advanced MRO center in Poland to provide efficient logistics support to Poland and other K9 user countries across the European region.

    ..."Hanwha is committed to making Poland a hub for the supply of K9 systems in Europe based on stronger partnership with the government of Poland."


    European defence manufacturers have some serious competition for the rearming of NATO.

    After all the NAFO support that Ukraine has been getting, there's something fitting about K9 weaponry going to Kyiv.
    Do they charge per UNIT?
    Who would suggest that?
    Me. As a Master of punning.
    Is this where I get to boast that one achievement of mine that my kids were impressed by when I was in the RAF was successfully getting the name accepted for the Tactical Airfield Radar Display cabins project.
    The new PLM mode for F/A-18E/F and EA-18G used for carrier approaches is called Maritime Augmented Guidance with Integrated Controls for Carrier Approach and Recovery Precision Enabling Technologies.
    How's its reliability? Is it rug-ged?
    I think this is off thread...
    Really? What's your lino argument to support that?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,978

    Morning to everyone.

    Extradordinary story just reported on R4 today - German police just broken up a huge far-terrorist group, first who were planning to raid the bundestag, and in the last analysis including a 70-year old aristocrat they were planning to install as head of state ( ! ).

    Is there a Delusion epidemic circulating through the Right?

    Trump's 'election steal' crap, Truss's neoliberal nonsense, and now this. WTAF were they thinking? Any of them.

    Morning to everyone.

    Extradordinary story just reported on R4 today - German police just broken up a huge far-terrorist group, first who were planning to raid the bundestag, and in the last analysis including a 70-year old aristocrat they were planning to install as head of state ( ! ).

    Is there a Delusion epidemic circulating through the Right?

    Trump's 'election steal' crap, Truss's neoliberal nonsense, and now this. WTAF were they thinking? Any of them.
    Follow the Money in all cases. All of them have Russian money at source. When we talk about Russian hybrid war, this is also what is covered by that term.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    O/T First world problem, I know, but I need to replace my lease car in the next 9 months.

    Should I go early or wait? Prices going up or will the recession cut demand and lead to price falls next summer?

    It depends what you want. Lease values on shitboxes tend to hold up well when the market is soft as more people want cheaper cars.

    If you're getting a Mercedes S580E or similar then wait until next year I reckon.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    Dura_Ace said:

    O/T First world problem, I know, but I need to replace my lease car in the next 9 months.

    Should I go early or wait? Prices going up or will the recession cut demand and lead to price falls next summer?

    It depends what you want. Lease values on shitboxes tend to hold up well when the market is soft as more people want cheaper cars.

    If you're getting a Mercedes S580E or similar then wait until next year I reckon.
    I suspect I'm looking for a 'shitbox' ;-)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    Coup attempt foiled in Germany.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63885028

    "Twenty-five people have been arrested in raids across Germany on suspicion of plotting to overthrow the government.

    German reports say the group of far-right and ex-military figures planned to storm the parliament building, the Reichstag, and seize power.

    A German man referred to as a prince called Heinrich XIII, 71, is alleged to have been central to their plans.

    According to federal prosecutors, he is one of two alleged ringleaders among those arrested across 11 German states."
  • ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    First batch of K2, K9 arrives in Poland
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=341288

    The first batch of 24 K9 self-propelled howitzers and 10 K2 battle tanks has been delivered to Poland, Tuesday (local time), according to South Korean defense companies.

    The shipment came after Poland signed a purchase agreement in July for 980 K2 battle tanks from Hyundai Rotem and 648 K9 self-propelled howitzers from Hanwha Aerospace as well as 48 FA-50 light attack aircraft from South Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The deal was among South Korea's most important and largest defense orders in recent years. They also signed with Warsaw's Armament Agency a follow-up arrangement to the "framework" contract in August. ...

    ...For Hanwha's part, it also plans to build an advanced MRO center in Poland to provide efficient logistics support to Poland and other K9 user countries across the European region.

    ..."Hanwha is committed to making Poland a hub for the supply of K9 systems in Europe based on stronger partnership with the government of Poland."


    European defence manufacturers have some serious competition for the rearming of NATO.

    After all the NAFO support that Ukraine has been getting, there's something fitting about K9 weaponry going to Kyiv.
    Do they charge per UNIT?
    Who would suggest that?
    Me. As a Master of punning.
    Is this where I get to boast that one achievement of mine that my kids were impressed by when I was in the RAF was successfully getting the name accepted for the Tactical Airfield Radar Display cabins project.
    Those cabins were surprisingly roomy inside, I believe.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,425
    Heathener said:

    OT I'm going to cancel my Labour Party membership and also revisit my plan to give them my British Gas shares.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vpns-online-safety-bill-labour-champion-b2239810.html

    These maniacs won't rest until the entire internet is child-safe.

    Well there's surely nothing maniacal about wanting the entire internet to be child-safe. Unless you're a paedophile. And that's a pretty OTT reason to cancel a party membership? Somewhat of an over-reaction, no? As a left-leaner there are other things that would cause me to drop support.

    However, I do agree otherwise and I suspect this is grandstanding by Labour. I don't see how they can restrict VPN's. They will always exist and, as y'all know, I use them for protecting my online privacy. In many ways I think everyone should use a VPN. The amount of snooping used by tech is beyond insidious. It's downright evil.

    An example. I was having a face to face chat with someone recently. My phone was sitting on the table between us. Not connected to anything except 4G. I happened to mention in conversation a pretty esoteric place I had visited in Germany. It's not a place that I had talked about to anyone for over a year, and it was three years since I visited it.

    5 minutes later an email arrived in my inbox from that venue.
    - Won't someone please think of the children
    - You have nothing to fear, if you haven't done anything wrong.
    - All suspects are guilty. Otherwise they wouldn't be "suspect".
    - “The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia,”

    The problem is one general to politicians. They are by nature lawyers or proxies of lawyers. The Law is God.

    So the next step is that all evidence must be instantly produced on the order of the courts or the police.

    Along comes proper encryption. Which potentially locks them out forever. Or as a better man put it "For as long as humans are capable of evil"

    Long ago, there was a proposal that the NHS standard encryption should be 40 bit. Even at that time it was insane. I went to my MP. In the course of showing him historical stuff on encryption, I made the mistake of explaining that modern encryption is beyond everyone.

    The utter horror on his face was fascinating - I was describing the worst possible idea, it seems. The idea that The Law wasn't in charge.

    Both major parties are in lockstep on this. They will fight reality - because *they* are supposed to Be In Charge.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,018
    So the Democrats narrowly win Georgia, the 49.2% Walker gets exactly the same as Trump got in Georgia in 2020
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    On Kay Burley's Class Warfare Calendar it appears that the 12th is the only day this month when nobody is on strike. This is it. Everyone study Lenin's April Theses.
  • Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
    Indeed, it does look that with the Russian bear being declared, the risk of conventional war in Central Europe is at its lowest risk for some time.

    Haven't we also cut back on our spending commitment, or at least pushed it into the future?
    Yet the traditional ritual of crowing over the shiteness of Putin's armed forces and their increasing difficulties of replenishing men, missiles and tanks while simultaneously insisting that they're a dire threat to international security must be indulged in.

    'Look, there's a good chance that most of Putin's ICBMs won't work.'

    'So why have I got several hundred nuclear warheads parked 25 miles from my house?'

    'Shut up you ungrateful Jock, it's only the presence of these warheads that's preventing Vlad's useless missles from raining down on you!'
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,465
    edited December 2022
    Some speculation in the US media that Warnock might be a Presidential candidate if Biden doesn't run. Plausible?
  • Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
    Indeed, it does look that with the Russian bear being declared, the risk of conventional war in Central Europe is at its lowest risk for some time.

    Haven't we also cut back on our spending commitment, or at least pushed it into the future?
    Yet the traditional ritual of crowing over the shiteness of Putin's armed forces and their increasing difficulties of replenishing men, missiles and tanks while simultaneously insisting that they're a dire threat to international security must be indulged in.

    'Look, there's a good chance that most of Putin's ICBMs won't work.'

    'So why have I got several hundred nuclear warheads parked 25 miles from my house?'

    'Shut up you ungrateful Jock, it's only the presence of these warheads that's preventing Vlad's useless missles from raining down on you!'
    'There's a good chance you won't get an unwanted pregnancy if you engage in intercourse one time.'

    'So why use a condom?'

    'Because its better to have some protection than no protection.'
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,425
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
    Indeed, it does look that with the Russian bear being declared, the risk of conventional war in Central Europe is at its lowest risk for some time.

    Haven't we also cut back on our spending commitment, or at least pushed it into the future?
    Depends where you think Poland is, I suppose.

    When I was there, a couple of weeks ago, the mood from students to business men to pensioners was that they would need to be having a massive military to deter Russia for a generation. It was just assumed - no one disagreed in the slightest. The only contentious moment was when someone suggested that Poland acquire nuclear weapons.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,126
    Foxy said:

    The power of protest:

    https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1600376574439727104?t=07oAt0rDLlajaqulp-Tvyg&s=09

    Still tighter than most of the planet, but a major loosening by China.

    Presumably that is very good news for the world economy.
  • HYUFD said:

    So the Democrats narrowly win Georgia, the 49.2% Walker gets exactly the same as Trump got in Georgia in 2020

    The latest is 51.4 to 48.6

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1600414621482876928

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,330

    Morning to everyone.

    Extradordinary story just reported on R4 today - German police just broken up a huge far-terrorist group, first who were planning to raid the bundestag, and in the last analysis including a 70-year old aristocrat they were planning to install as head of state ( ! ).

    I was astonished how little attention that seemed to be getting on the Today program this morning. A mature, western democracy central to the EU was facing a serious attempt at a coup? They spent longer wittering on about twins.
  • Some speculation in the US media that Warnock might be a Presidential candidate if Biden doesn't run. Plausible?

    The poor bloke must be exhausted from all the senate elections but yup, plausible.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,242
    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    The power of protest:

    https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1600376574439727104?t=07oAt0rDLlajaqulp-Tvyg&s=09

    Still tighter than most of the planet, but a major loosening by China.

    Presumably that is very good news for the world economy.
    Unfortunately: not necessarily

    The prediction says significant loosening by China leads to ~1m Covid deaths in pretty short order. Why should it not? China has poor vax rates in the elderly, zero natural immunity, and they’re not using the best jabs

    If this does NOT happen then something is seriously wrong with

    1. Our estimates of Omicron’s infectivity/lethality or
    2. China’s reporting of its own health data

    Or some combination thereof
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, story priority can sometimes be very weird on the news.
  • M45M45 Posts: 216

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
    Indeed, it does look that with the Russian bear being declared, the risk of conventional war in Central Europe is at its lowest risk for some time.

    Haven't we also cut back on our spending commitment, or at least pushed it into the future?
    Depends where you think Poland is, I suppose.

    When I was there, a couple of weeks ago, the mood from students to business men to pensioners was that they would need to be having a massive military to deter Russia for a generation. It was just assumed - no one disagreed in the slightest. The only contentious moment was when someone suggested that Poland acquire nuclear weapons.
    Hard to blame them, given their history, and there is nothing implausible about Putin's successor vowing to rearm, wipe out national stains etc etc.
  • FWIW, I spoke to my financial adviser yesterday. He and his firm are very bullish about UK investment opportunities currently. If you have liquidity, he said, now is a very exciting time.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,425
    DavidL said:

    Morning to everyone.

    Extradordinary story just reported on R4 today - German police just broken up a huge far-terrorist group, first who were planning to raid the bundestag, and in the last analysis including a 70-year old aristocrat they were planning to install as head of state ( ! ).

    I was astonished how little attention that seemed to be getting on the Today program this morning. A mature, western democracy central to the EU was facing a serious attempt at a coup? They spent longer wittering on about twins.
    I think the bit about bringing back the Second Reich and installing a new Kaiser has most people thinking that this a bunch of very deluded people.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,503
    edited December 2022

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
    Indeed, it does look that with the Russian bear being declared, the risk of conventional war in Central Europe is at its lowest risk for some time.

    Haven't we also cut back on our spending commitment, or at least pushed it into the future?
    Yet the traditional ritual of crowing over the shiteness of Putin's armed forces and their increasing difficulties of replenishing men, missiles and tanks while simultaneously insisting that they're a dire threat to international security must be indulged in.

    'Look, there's a good chance that most of Putin's ICBMs won't work.'

    'So why have I got several hundred nuclear warheads parked 25 miles from my house?'

    'Shut up you ungrateful Jock, it's only the presence of these warheads that's preventing Vlad's useless missles from raining down on you!'
    'There's a good chance you won't get an unwanted pregnancy if you engage in intercourse one time.'

    'So why use a condom?'

    'Because its better to have some protection than no protection.'
    Yeah, but in your slightly weird metaphor, you're the one also saying that the potency of Putin's semen is greatly diminished.

    Please don't come round to my house to forcibly put a condom on me btw.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159

    FWIW, I spoke to my financial adviser yesterday. He and his firm are very bullish about UK investment opportunities currently. If you have liquidity, he said, now is a very exciting time.

    Yes, UK companies are under priced and the recession risk is overblown. Even the BoE have walked back a lot of the rhetoric, maybe realising that there's a doom loop they're feeding. Hopefully British investors realise this rather than seeing companies picked off by American PE.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,018
    Police foil a far right and military coup to take power in Germany and install a minor aristocrat from Thuringia in power also backed by a former member of the hard right Afd

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63885028
  • The rumours that a rogue enormo-haddock, styling himself Baron Von Fischklop, was the aristocrat seeking to become head of the German state are entirely false.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,018
    edited December 2022

    HYUFD said:

    So the Democrats narrowly win Georgia, the 49.2% Walker gets exactly the same as Trump got in Georgia in 2020

    The latest is 51.4 to 48.6

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1600414621482876928

    So less than Trump got then, so you can't blame Trump there then if Walker underperformed him
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,126
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
    Defence spending plans for the next decade, not next year.
    A similar argument over the last decade is what led to Putin thinking he could get away with his Ukrainian gamble.

    And your 8:05 comment backs that up.
    Not that convinced that low European defence spending has encouraged Putin to instigate the war in Ukraine.
    Even with that low level of spending, it seems that it was sufficient to defeat Russia?

    Poland spending 2% of GDP obviously equates to quite a different level of capacity than Germany spending 2%.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,242

    DavidL said:

    Morning to everyone.

    Extradordinary story just reported on R4 today - German police just broken up a huge far-terrorist group, first who were planning to raid the bundestag, and in the last analysis including a 70-year old aristocrat they were planning to install as head of state ( ! ).

    I was astonished how little attention that seemed to be getting on the Today program this morning. A mature, western democracy central to the EU was facing a serious attempt at a coup? They spent longer wittering on about twins.
    I think the bit about bringing back the Second Reich and installing a new Kaiser has most people thinking that this a bunch of very deluded people.
    Maybe we’re going back to the future. Who had a Major European War pencilled in for 2022?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,018
    DavidL said:

    Morning to everyone.

    Extradordinary story just reported on R4 today - German police just broken up a huge far-terrorist group, first who were planning to raid the bundestag, and in the last analysis including a 70-year old aristocrat they were planning to install as head of state ( ! ).

    I was astonished how little attention that seemed to be getting on the Today program this morning. A mature, western democracy central to the EU was facing a serious attempt at a coup? They spent longer wittering on about twins.
    Of course there were rumours here in the 1970s, never proved of an ultra rightwing and military couple to topple the Wilson government and make Mountbatten leader of the government pre Thatcher
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,448
    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
    It's possible that, in ten years time, Putin will have been deposed and replaced by someone able to ensure military spending leads to military effectiveness and the US will have withdrawn from NATO.

    Only Poland is preparing for such a scenario. Other European countries should do so. Waiting for it to happen will be too late.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,528

    The rumours that a rogue enormo-haddock, styling himself Baron Von Fischklop, was the aristocrat seeking to become head of the German state are entirely false.

    Monty Python is very popular in Germany.

  • Mr. Leon, the first half of the 20th century had a financial crisis and pandemic. So has the 21st. So far, we've avoided global wars...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159
    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
    Defence spending plans for the next decade, not next year.
    A similar argument over the last decade is what led to Putin thinking he could get away with his Ukrainian gamble.

    And your 8:05 comment backs that up.
    Not that convinced that low European defence spending has encouraged Putin to instigate the war in Ukraine.
    Even with that low level of spending, it seems that it was sufficient to defeat Russia?

    Poland spending 2% of GDP obviously equates to quite a different level of capacity than Germany spending 2%.
    No it wasn't. The US and UK are providing a huge bulk of Ukranian arms, both meet the target and US exceeds it by some distance. If it was just up to those low spending countries Ukraine would have been conquered months ago for lack of arms.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,126
    Leon said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    The power of protest:

    https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1600376574439727104?t=07oAt0rDLlajaqulp-Tvyg&s=09

    Still tighter than most of the planet, but a major loosening by China.

    Presumably that is very good news for the world economy.
    Unfortunately: not necessarily

    The prediction says significant loosening by China leads to ~1m Covid deaths in pretty short order. Why should it not? China has poor vax rates in the elderly, zero natural immunity, and they’re not using the best jabs

    If this does NOT happen then something is seriously wrong with

    1. Our estimates of Omicron’s infectivity/lethality or
    2. China’s reporting of its own health data

    Or some combination thereof
    I guess it's another test of the Chinese government. Will they allow ~1m people to die to protect their local vaccine manufacturers or will they let Western vaccines in?

    I'm sure if they decided to they could get those vaccination rates up pretty quickly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,242
    A coup in a western democracy begins to look quite plausible to me

    Trump, now Germany? This is a theme
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,330
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Morning to everyone.

    Extradordinary story just reported on R4 today - German police just broken up a huge far-terrorist group, first who were planning to raid the bundestag, and in the last analysis including a 70-year old aristocrat they were planning to install as head of state ( ! ).

    I was astonished how little attention that seemed to be getting on the Today program this morning. A mature, western democracy central to the EU was facing a serious attempt at a coup? They spent longer wittering on about twins.
    Of course there were rumours here in the 1970s, never proved of an ultra rightwing and military couple to topple the Wilson government and make Mountbatten leader of the government pre Thatcher
    I heard those rumours at the time because they were rife in the army and my dad told me about them. A lot of people in the army seemed to think Harold Wilson was either a Russian plant or controlled by communists round about him. It is extraordinary what people can make themselves believe. Never came to anything though.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,425
    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
    Defence spending plans for the next decade, not next year.
    A similar argument over the last decade is what led to Putin thinking he could get away with his Ukrainian gamble.

    And your 8:05 comment backs that up.
    Not that convinced that low European defence spending has encouraged Putin to instigate the war in Ukraine.
    Even with that low level of spending, it seems that it was sufficient to defeat Russia?

    Poland spending 2% of GDP obviously equates to quite a different level of capacity than Germany spending 2%.
    Putin seems to have believed that he could roll through Ukraine and have a go at the Baltics. The state of military preparedness in Europe was well known. As was American disengagement. The unknown was the extraordinary hollowing out of the Russian military since 2014.
  • DavidL said:

    Morning to everyone.

    Extradordinary story just reported on R4 today - German police just broken up a huge far-terrorist group, first who were planning to raid the bundestag, and in the last analysis including a 70-year old aristocrat they were planning to install as head of state ( ! ).

    I was astonished how little attention that seemed to be getting on the Today program this morning. A mature, western democracy central to the EU was facing a serious attempt at a coup? They spent longer wittering on about twins.
    It's an estimated 50 people in a country of 84 million with a stable government which for historical reasons is rather fascism-skeptical. The chances of them successfully taking over the government of Germany would be somewhere between zero and none.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,528
    Leon said:

    A coup in a western democracy begins to look quite plausible to me

    Trump, now Germany? This is a theme

    Well if the Germans can't get the World Cup they might just as well have a coup.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,586
    On Topic

    Excellent news
  • Mr. rkrkrk, or is their priority the intense degree of remote control afforded by the combination of social credit and COVID passports?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,242
    rkrkrk said:

    Leon said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    The power of protest:

    https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1600376574439727104?t=07oAt0rDLlajaqulp-Tvyg&s=09

    Still tighter than most of the planet, but a major loosening by China.

    Presumably that is very good news for the world economy.
    Unfortunately: not necessarily

    The prediction says significant loosening by China leads to ~1m Covid deaths in pretty short order. Why should it not? China has poor vax rates in the elderly, zero natural immunity, and they’re not using the best jabs

    If this does NOT happen then something is seriously wrong with

    1. Our estimates of Omicron’s infectivity/lethality or
    2. China’s reporting of its own health data

    Or some combination thereof
    I guess it's another test of the Chinese government. Will they allow ~1m people to die to protect their local vaccine manufacturers or will they let Western vaccines in?

    I'm sure if they decided to they could get those vaccination rates up pretty quickly.
    For an authoritarian state prepared to harvest organs and staple people in apartments the Chinese regime is weirdly reluctant to enforce vaccination. I’ve yet to see a coherent explanation for this

  • Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Morning to everyone.

    Extradordinary story just reported on R4 today - German police just broken up a huge far-terrorist group, first who were planning to raid the bundestag, and in the last analysis including a 70-year old aristocrat they were planning to install as head of state ( ! ).

    I was astonished how little attention that seemed to be getting on the Today program this morning. A mature, western democracy central to the EU was facing a serious attempt at a coup? They spent longer wittering on about twins.
    I think the bit about bringing back the Second Reich and installing a new Kaiser has most people thinking that this a bunch of very deluded people.
    Maybe we’re going back to the future. Who had a Major European War pencilled in for 2022?
    I know of someone who had a nuclear apocalypse pencilled in on several occasions in 2022. There's still time!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,018
    edited December 2022
    Leon said:

    A coup in a western democracy begins to look quite plausible to me

    Trump, now Germany? This is a theme

    Both failed though as you need the full support of the army for a successful coup. See Egypt where it was the army that toppled President Morsi
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,425

    DavidL said:

    Morning to everyone.

    Extradordinary story just reported on R4 today - German police just broken up a huge far-terrorist group, first who were planning to raid the bundestag, and in the last analysis including a 70-year old aristocrat they were planning to install as head of state ( ! ).

    I was astonished how little attention that seemed to be getting on the Today program this morning. A mature, western democracy central to the EU was facing a serious attempt at a coup? They spent longer wittering on about twins.
    It's an estimated 50 people in a country of 84 million with a stable government which for historical reasons is rather fascism-skeptical. The chances of them successfully taking over the government of Germany would be somewhere between zero and none.
    Yes. @Morris_Dancer has more chance of being the next leader of the UK, backed by the haddock, than that lot has of taking over Germany.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,448

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
    Indeed, it does look that with the Russian bear being declared, the risk of conventional war in Central Europe is at its lowest risk for some time.

    Haven't we also cut back on our spending commitment, or at least pushed it into the future?
    Yet the traditional ritual of crowing over the shiteness of Putin's armed forces and their increasing difficulties of replenishing men, missiles and tanks while simultaneously insisting that they're a dire threat to international security must be indulged in.

    'Look, there's a good chance that most of Putin's ICBMs won't work.'

    'So why have I got several hundred nuclear warheads parked 25 miles from my house?'

    'Shut up you ungrateful Jock, it's only the presence of these warheads that's preventing Vlad's useless missles from raining down on you!'
    The good news following Russia's invasion of Ukraine is that their armed forces are much less effective than we imagined.

    The bad news is that they demonstrated, and continue to demonstrate, the willingness to use what military effectiveness they possess to pursue an aggressive war of territorial conquest.

    The worse news is that most European armed forces may be in as bad a state as the Russians, and if the Russians get their act together, Europe is unable to defend itself without the US.

    The worst news is that the chances of having to defend Europe without the US are increasing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,242
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Morning to everyone.

    Extradordinary story just reported on R4 today - German police just broken up a huge far-terrorist group, first who were planning to raid the bundestag, and in the last analysis including a 70-year old aristocrat they were planning to install as head of state ( ! ).

    I was astonished how little attention that seemed to be getting on the Today program this morning. A mature, western democracy central to the EU was facing a serious attempt at a coup? They spent longer wittering on about twins.
    Of course there were rumours here in the 1970s, never proved of an ultra rightwing and military couple to topple the Wilson government and make Mountbatten leader of the government pre Thatcher
    I heard those rumours at the time because they were rife in the army and my dad told me about them. A lot of people in the army seemed to think Harold Wilson was either a Russian plant or controlled by communists round about him. It is extraordinary what people can make themselves believe. Never came to anything though.
    It’s not so implausible

    “Douglas Eden reveals the extraordinary penetration of the 1970s Labour movement by pro-Soviet trade unionists and the extent of Callaghan’s toleration of the hard Left”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/we-came-close-to-losing-our-democracy-in-1979/
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,126

    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    BERLIN — Germany on Monday walked back its promise to swiftly raise defense spending to at least 2 percent of its economic output — breaching the key commitment made days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to become a more serious military force.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backtracks-on-defense-spending-promise-warns-about-delays-ukraine-war/

    Who the fuck are they supposed to be defending themselves against? The Russians are busy kill feeding the AFU in Bakhmut and certainly won't be going anywhere near Germany.

    There is zero real justification for any Western European country to increase defense spending at the expense of more socially useful government activity.
    Defence spending plans for the next decade, not next year.
    A similar argument over the last decade is what led to Putin thinking he could get away with his Ukrainian gamble.

    And your 8:05 comment backs that up.
    Not that convinced that low European defence spending has encouraged Putin to instigate the war in Ukraine.
    Even with that low level of spending, it seems that it was sufficient to defeat Russia?

    Poland spending 2% of GDP obviously equates to quite a different level of capacity than Germany spending 2%.
    Putin seems to have believed that he could roll through Ukraine and have a go at the Baltics. The state of military preparedness in Europe was well known. As was American disengagement. The unknown was the extraordinary hollowing out of the Russian military since 2014.
    Perhaps in practice the level of US support for Ukraine came as a surprise to Russia also. If Putin had tried this under Trump things might have been very different.

    The Baltics are protected by NATO though - so I think that, at least theoretically, would be a different proposition.
This discussion has been closed.