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LAB now a 67% betting chance to win most seats – politicalbetting.com

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    pillsbury said:

    Driver said:

    We were talking about the decline in cinema-going the other day.

    This is interesting on the terrible Thanksgiving weekend box office.

    https://www.indiewire.com/2022/11/worst-thanksgiving-weekend-box-office-history-1234785622/

    I haven’t even heard of some of these, there’s a massive marketing failure here somewhere, among other issues.

    I've pretty much given up on the cinema - seems to me that nearly all "big" films are either DC/MCU or some sequel trotted out because it's an easy money maker.

    I think the only film I've seen in the cinema this year is Elvis.
    That's my observation.

    They are crap films.

    Also, the window of opportunity to see them is sometimes too short - like 2-3 weeks. Not enough for word to get around and diaries to be rejigged with babysitters if it's good and worth seeing.
    Buy a fuck off sized wall mountable telly, 55' or upwards. Hitch it to £150 worth of stereo speakers. Never go to the cinema again.
    I just got a massive big telly. HD and all that. Great sound

    Why would I ever go to the cinema again?

    Also this screen can play my, er, *personal videos*, and you don't get that down the Vue. I hope
    Oh Leon I thought you had SOUL! - I agree with you on so much but the cinema gets you out there , a lot more than watching something in your flat.
    Well, it doesn't help that the quality of movies has declined drastically in comparison to the rising quality of streamed drama, documentaries

    And, as others have said, movies seem to have just dropped off the cultural radar. I don't even HEAR about them - and I am not someone that avoids social media etc!

    I did see one brilliant movie on a recent long haul flight. The last Jurassic World: Dominion

    My expectations were minimal but it is BRILLIANT, a superb, witty, non-stop-action drama with phenomenal stunts, like the first Jurassic Park meets the first Indiana Jones meets a really good James Bond. And yet the reviews were lukewarm?!

    Fie on them

    Happily, the few people who still go to the movies did not agree with the silly reviewers:

    As of October 7, 2022, Jurassic World Dominion has grossed $376 million in the United States and Canada, and $625.1 million in other territories, for a worldwide total of $1.001 billion.[8][6] It is the second-highest-grossing film of 2022,[248]
    Reviewers thought The Last Jedi was brilliant as well. Their credibility is not all it might be.
    Exhibit A:


    Dearie dearie me. I’d no idea anyone could even think that.

    What should I say? ‘Me give up!’
    I recently discovered an elderly relative who is a big fan. No accounting for taste.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Bizarre penalty decision.

    I think that's the rules innit?

    If a hand stops a ball, and thereby stops a clear goal scoring chance, then it is a penalty even if you didn't mean to touch it?

    But I could be wrong
    You are. And me too since that's also what I thought.
    VAR has ruined handball too. Now we have some nonsense about natural and unnatural positions for body parts. Try playing football without moving your arms, ffs. Before VAR pretty much if it hit your arm it was a pen. Unintentional or intentional mattered not a jot.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Leon said:

    Bizarre penalty decision.

    I think that's the rules innit?

    If a hand stops a ball, and thereby stops a clear goal scoring chance, then it is a penalty even if you didn't mean to touch it?

    But I could be wrong
    Nobody seems to know. Even Peter Walton, the refereeing consultant on itv.
    To me, if the hand stops the ball going through to Fernandes who would have a good chance to score that is a penalty, even if it was accidental. He has gained an advantage by using his hand. But the rules seem extremely complicated.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Yes, bit much for me. How about a bag of Maltesers?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    pillsbury said:

    Driver said:

    We were talking about the decline in cinema-going the other day.

    This is interesting on the terrible Thanksgiving weekend box office.

    https://www.indiewire.com/2022/11/worst-thanksgiving-weekend-box-office-history-1234785622/

    I haven’t even heard of some of these, there’s a massive marketing failure here somewhere, among other issues.

    I've pretty much given up on the cinema - seems to me that nearly all "big" films are either DC/MCU or some sequel trotted out because it's an easy money maker.

    I think the only film I've seen in the cinema this year is Elvis.
    That's my observation.

    They are crap films.

    Also, the window of opportunity to see them is sometimes too short - like 2-3 weeks. Not enough for word to get around and diaries to be rejigged with babysitters if it's good and worth seeing.
    Buy a fuck off sized wall mountable telly, 55' or upwards. Hitch it to £150 worth of stereo speakers. Never go to the cinema again.
    I just got a massive big telly. HD and all that. Great sound

    Why would I ever go to the cinema again?

    Also this screen can play my, er, *personal videos*, and you don't get that down the Vue. I hope
    Oh Leon I thought you had SOUL! - I agree with you on so much but the cinema gets you out there , a lot more than watching something in your flat.
    Well, it doesn't help that the quality of movies has declined drastically in comparison to the rising quality of streamed drama, documentaries

    And, as others have said, movies seem to have just dropped off the cultural radar. I don't even HEAR about them - and I am not someone that avoids social media etc!

    I did see one brilliant movie on a recent long haul flight. The last Jurassic World: Dominion

    My expectations were minimal but it is BRILLIANT, a superb, witty, non-stop-action drama with phenomenal stunts, like the first Jurassic Park meets the first Indiana Jones meets a really good James Bond. And yet the reviews were lukewarm?!

    Fie on them

    Happily, the few people who still go to the movies did not agree with the silly reviewers:

    As of October 7, 2022, Jurassic World Dominion has grossed $376 million in the United States and Canada, and $625.1 million in other territories, for a worldwide total of $1.001 billion.[8][6] It is the second-highest-grossing film of 2022,[248]
    Reviewers thought The Last Jedi was brilliant as well. Their credibility is not all it might be.
    Exhibit A:


    Dearie dearie me. I’d no idea anyone could even think that.

    What should I say? ‘Me give up!’
    I am going to my thoughtful spot.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Bizarre penalty decision.

    I think that's the rules innit?

    If a hand stops a ball, and thereby stops a clear goal scoring chance, then it is a penalty even if you didn't mean to touch it?

    But I could be wrong
    You are. And me too since that's also what I thought.
    VAR has ruined handball too. Now we have some nonsense about natural and unnatural positions for body parts. Try playing football without moving your arms, ffs. Before VAR pretty much if it hit your arm it was a pen. Unintentional or intentional mattered not a jot.
    The current handball rules are a mess. What is an unnatural position?

    A better rule would be to look at whether any advantage was gained.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Bizarre penalty decision.

    I think that's the rules innit?

    If a hand stops a ball, and thereby stops a clear goal scoring chance, then it is a penalty even if you didn't mean to touch it?

    But I could be wrong
    Nobody seems to know. Even Peter Walton, the refereeing consultant on itv.
    To me, if the hand stops the ball going through to Fernandes who would have a good chance to score that is a penalty, even if it was accidental. He has gained an advantage by using his hand. But the rules seem extremely complicated.
    Nobody knows what the rules are. What is a ‘subjective call’? It means it’s essentially left to whether the ref fancies giving a pen.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Bizarre penalty decision.

    I think that's the rules innit?

    If a hand stops a ball, and thereby stops a clear goal scoring chance, then it is a penalty even if you didn't mean to touch it?

    But I could be wrong
    You are. And me too since that's also what I thought.
    VAR has ruined handball too. Now we have some nonsense about natural and unnatural positions for body parts. Try playing football without moving your arms, ffs. Before VAR pretty much if it hit your arm it was a pen. Unintentional or intentional mattered not a jot.
    But not if the striker hit it deliberately against the hand.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    pillsbury said:

    Driver said:

    We were talking about the decline in cinema-going the other day.

    This is interesting on the terrible Thanksgiving weekend box office.

    https://www.indiewire.com/2022/11/worst-thanksgiving-weekend-box-office-history-1234785622/

    I haven’t even heard of some of these, there’s a massive marketing failure here somewhere, among other issues.

    I've pretty much given up on the cinema - seems to me that nearly all "big" films are either DC/MCU or some sequel trotted out because it's an easy money maker.

    I think the only film I've seen in the cinema this year is Elvis.
    That's my observation.

    They are crap films.

    Also, the window of opportunity to see them is sometimes too short - like 2-3 weeks. Not enough for word to get around and diaries to be rejigged with babysitters if it's good and worth seeing.
    Buy a fuck off sized wall mountable telly, 55' or upwards. Hitch it to £150 worth of stereo speakers. Never go to the cinema again.
    I just got a massive big telly. HD and all that. Great sound

    Why would I ever go to the cinema again?

    Also this screen can play my, er, *personal videos*, and you don't get that down the Vue. I hope
    The only reason to go to the cinema is to be with other people, which I predict may come back into fashion again in a few years' time.
    To sit with people and not talk to them for two hours? Hardly a social occasion
    Perfect date for introverts!
    When I was dating, I loved a cinema date. Drink first for a chat, two hours in silence, then if it’s going we’ll post movie drink and chat, or more ((if it’s gone very, very well). If the date is not good, at least the movie might be ok.
    Plus shared popcorn in the lap - v sexy.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792


    Anti-lockdown protestors in Beijing have been holding up blank sheets of paper - a tactic previously used by anti-monarchist protestors in London.

    "Paper maker Shanghai M&G Stationary was forced to deny rumours that it had taken all A4 paper off shelves for national security reasons. M&G officials said production and operation was all normal and that they had notified police of a forged document circulating online which had kick-started the rumour."

    That is seriously skilled infowar - to the point of forcing a denial. The present stage of the struggle in China cannot continue for much longer. A month, tops.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    MaxPB said:

    A general collapse in public services - health, police, courts, adoption etc.

    https://twitter.com/samfr/status/1597208466703032320?s=46&t=kIx7ITW3UXYaGg-ixUfZ2w

    I don’t think this is just a UK problem, but the Tories seem unaware of the issue, and Labour have no answers either.

    The problem is not just money.

    The issue is that public sector productivity is a disaster. It soaks up money and resources and outputs at a much lower rate than the private sector. I think in the UK public sector employees are a particular case of both useless and overpaid in a whole host of roles and they act to prevent front line roles from performing at higher productivity levels. It's a poisonous atmosphere as front line workers just want to get on with the job while those unproductive and overpaid types stifle any drive to, you know, do the actual job.

    I said it on here the other day and the UK state sector defenders were out in force, the solution is to sack 50% of admin and other non front line roles, ban all consulting and hiring of day rate public sector consultants, put in place a hiring freeze and change job roles to cover whatever the 50% of people who got sacked were supposed to be doing, give the people who stick around a 30-40% pay rise, pump the rest of the money into front line recruitment.

    It's almost a certainty that we wouldn't notice the difference and after a few years we'd see big improvements in output because there's more money for front line services and less being eaten up by the unproductive paper pushers.

    You could probably repeat that process a few times and hollow out the DfE to give teachers a bigger slice of the education budget and start to chip away at the teacher shortage, do it at the NHS so that we get more capital investment, payrises and more recruitment among front line staff. Do it at the MoD and fund a proper military.

    Osborne and Cameron had it right when they chipped away at the state sector, May and Boris has let the state grow to a completely out of control level and it is stifling output and the economy as these bureaucrats invent rules and processes to justify their continued employment.
    There are a lot of IT consulting companies making very good money out of the public sector, mainly because the public sector isn't willing or able to pay the going rate for in house expertise.

    I think I know why it is easier for HMG to pay >>£x00s per day for consultants rather than to employ staff directly, but it doesn't stop it from being daft. And even if they are lucky enough to get consultants who give a damn about documenting their work properly, it means the institutional knowledge suffers.
    From working with senior ex-civil servants - paying a full time employee more than their manager was simply Not Done. For some reason, hiring a contractor at zillions a day was OK, but paying a junior more than his/her boss was considered to be an insult so massive that you didn't even do it to your enemies.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,828
    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    pillsbury said:

    Driver said:

    We were talking about the decline in cinema-going the other day.

    This is interesting on the terrible Thanksgiving weekend box office.

    https://www.indiewire.com/2022/11/worst-thanksgiving-weekend-box-office-history-1234785622/

    I haven’t even heard of some of these, there’s a massive marketing failure here somewhere, among other issues.

    I've pretty much given up on the cinema - seems to me that nearly all "big" films are either DC/MCU or some sequel trotted out because it's an easy money maker.

    I think the only film I've seen in the cinema this year is Elvis.
    That's my observation.

    They are crap films.

    Also, the window of opportunity to see them is sometimes too short - like 2-3 weeks. Not enough for word to get around and diaries to be rejigged with babysitters if it's good and worth seeing.
    Buy a fuck off sized wall mountable telly, 55' or upwards. Hitch it to £150 worth of stereo speakers. Never go to the cinema again.
    I just got a massive big telly. HD and all that. Great sound

    Why would I ever go to the cinema again?

    Also this screen can play my, er, *personal videos*, and you don't get that down the Vue. I hope
    Oh Leon I thought you had SOUL! - I agree with you on so much but the cinema gets you out there , a lot more than watching something in your flat.
    Well, it doesn't help that the quality of movies has declined drastically in comparison to the rising quality of streamed drama, documentaries

    And, as others have said, movies seem to have just dropped off the cultural radar. I don't even HEAR about them - and I am not someone that avoids social media etc!

    I did see one brilliant movie on a recent long haul flight. The last Jurassic World: Dominion

    My expectations were minimal but it is BRILLIANT, a superb, witty, non-stop-action drama with phenomenal stunts, like the first Jurassic Park meets the first Indiana Jones meets a really good James Bond. And yet the reviews were lukewarm?!

    Fie on them

    Happily, the few people who still go to the movies did not agree with the silly reviewers:

    As of October 7, 2022, Jurassic World Dominion has grossed $376 million in the United States and Canada, and $625.1 million in other territories, for a worldwide total of $1.001 billion.[8][6] It is the second-highest-grossing film of 2022,[248]
    Reviewers thought The Last Jedi was brilliant as well. Their credibility is not all it might be.
    Exhibit A:


    Darth Jar-Jar?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Did Ronaldo touch that?

    Don't think so.
    He didn't. And should have been booked for claiming it.
    It’s a pretty low down dirty act to put on that performance and claim that off your team mate if you know you didn’t touch it. Ronaldo’s a bit of a snake though so who knows?
    Plan B will be to claim it was an artful dummy.

    Great player but not a fave of mine.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    pillsbury said:

    Driver said:

    We were talking about the decline in cinema-going the other day.

    This is interesting on the terrible Thanksgiving weekend box office.

    https://www.indiewire.com/2022/11/worst-thanksgiving-weekend-box-office-history-1234785622/

    I haven’t even heard of some of these, there’s a massive marketing failure here somewhere, among other issues.

    I've pretty much given up on the cinema - seems to me that nearly all "big" films are either DC/MCU or some sequel trotted out because it's an easy money maker.

    I think the only film I've seen in the cinema this year is Elvis.
    That's my observation.

    They are crap films.

    Also, the window of opportunity to see them is sometimes too short - like 2-3 weeks. Not enough for word to get around and diaries to be rejigged with babysitters if it's good and worth seeing.
    Buy a fuck off sized wall mountable telly, 55' or upwards. Hitch it to £150 worth of stereo speakers. Never go to the cinema again.
    I just got a massive big telly. HD and all that. Great sound

    Why would I ever go to the cinema again?

    Also this screen can play my, er, *personal videos*, and you don't get that down the Vue. I hope
    The only reason to go to the cinema is to be with other people, which I predict may come back into fashion again in a few years' time.
    To sit with people and not talk to them for two hours? Hardly a social occasion
    Perfect date for introverts!
    When I was dating, I loved a cinema date. Drink first for a chat, two hours in silence, then if it’s going we’ll post movie drink and chat, or more ((if it’s gone very, very well). If the date is not good, at least the movie might be ok.
    Plus shared popcorn in the lap - v sexy.
    Only if you adopt the 'no hands' approach to eating it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Article 8 court case mentioned earlier, it's worth noting that the Supreme Court gave a similar ruling some months back in relation to publishing details about criminal investigations. Not good news.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/feb/16/bloomberg-loses-uk-supreme-court-case-on-privacy

    Not sure it is fair to say this is 'not good news'. In the case you link to the person under investigation had been neither charged nor arrested. We choose to say that people are innocent until proven guilty and it is not even the case that one could make a public interest claim on the basis that other victims might come forward as is the case with various crimes against the person - particularly sexual crimes.

    I am reminded of several high profile cases in the past where the press found out particular individuals were suspects in a crime and effectively ruined their lives when, as it turned out, they were entirely innocent.
    Where a public company is involved this sort of information is highly relevant to trading in that company's shares. There is a real risk of a false market being created and that may in itself be a fraud on shareholders. So I am sorry I disagree with you.

    Ex-Barclays CEO, Jes Staley, is under investigation by the FCA in relation to his links with Epstein. That fact and his subsequent resignation were made public. It would be quite wrong for something like that to be kept quiet.

    The issue of the police leaking details of investigations - including details about suspects - so as to give "stories" to the press is better addressed in other ways not by pulling the curtain down on transparency. That was what went wrong in the Cliff Richard and similar cases. The police abused their powers.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    edited November 2022
    True Story.

    I was working on the university magazine when “Phantom Menace” came out and thereby scored comp tickets to see the opening screening in Auckland, which was at midnight from memory.

    Obviously I was a decent fan of the original trilogy and so I was pretty excited.

    The film, and the Jar-Jar Binks character, were so atrocious I vowed never to have anything to do with the “franchise” ever again.

    Haven’t seen anything to do with it since, except for the original trilogy which I am introducing to my kids.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.

    I'd say monasteries, but the stories that have come out of the churches recently are horrible.

    Lighthouse keeping, maybe? Maybe the worker robots powered by AI can't come soon enough.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    True Story.

    I was working on the university magazine when “Phantom Menace” came out and thereby scored comp tickets to see the opening screening in Auckland, which was at midnight from memory.

    Obviously I was a decent fan of the original trilogy and so I was pretty excited.

    The film, and the Jar-Jar Binks character, were so atrocious I vowed never to have anything to do with the “franchise” ever again.

    Haven’t seen anything to do with it since, except for the original trilogy which I am introducing to my kids.

    Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back are classics. The rest is shite. It’s a poor franchise. Much of Star Trek is risible but all its incarnations have had (at least) some redeeming features, and much is very good. But Star Wars completely jumped the shark when it introduced the Planet of the Teddy Bears.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    A general collapse in public services - health, police, courts, adoption etc.

    https://twitter.com/samfr/status/1597208466703032320?s=46&t=kIx7ITW3UXYaGg-ixUfZ2w

    I don’t think this is just a UK problem, but the Tories seem unaware of the issue, and Labour have no answers either.

    The problem is not just money.

    The issue is that public sector productivity is a disaster. It soaks up money and resources and outputs at a much lower rate than the private sector. I think in the UK public sector employees are a particular case of both useless and overpaid in a whole host of roles and they act to prevent front line roles from performing at higher productivity levels. It's a poisonous atmosphere as front line workers just want to get on with the job while those unproductive and overpaid types stifle any drive to, you know, do the actual job.

    I said it on here the other day and the UK state sector defenders were out in force, the solution is to sack 50% of admin and other non front line roles, ban all consulting and hiring of day rate public sector consultants, put in place a hiring freeze and change job roles to cover whatever the 50% of people who got sacked were supposed to be doing, give the people who stick around a 30-40% pay rise, pump the rest of the money into front line recruitment.

    It's almost a certainty that we wouldn't notice the difference and after a few years we'd see big improvements in output because there's more money for front line services and less being eaten up by the unproductive paper pushers.

    You could probably repeat that process a few times and hollow out the DfE to give teachers a bigger slice of the education budget and start to chip away at the teacher shortage, do it at the NHS so that we get more capital investment, payrises and more recruitment among front line staff. Do it at the MoD and fund a proper military.

    Osborne and Cameron had it right when they chipped away at the state sector, May and Boris has let the state grow to a completely out of control level and it is stifling output and the economy as these bureaucrats invent rules and processes to justify their continued employment.
    There are a lot of IT consulting companies making very good money out of the public sector, mainly because the public sector isn't willing or able to pay the going rate for in house expertise.

    I think I know why it is easier for HMG to pay >>£x00s per day for consultants rather than to employ staff directly, but it doesn't stop it from being daft. And even if they are lucky enough to get consultants who give a damn about documenting their work properly, it means the institutional knowledge suffers.
    And if we did what I suggest, the productive half would see big enough pay rises to get and retain quality people without needing expensive consultants. A ban on external consultants would be tough at first but that industry simply dies and those people go back to being salaried employees or they go and try to get those outrageous numbers from the private sector.
    The problem is toxic, inefficient *organisations*

    The external consultants are a symptom, not the problem. When change is impossible inside the organisation - the reward for introducing efficiency is often to have your career destroyed in toxic organisation - bringing in outsiders is the only way.

    To construct from first principles - you need an internal consulting arm, who report straight to the top. For big projects, they would bulk out with individual contractors for the various phases (such as the development phases in IT work), but the knowledge would stay within the organisation - the permanent staff would retain the ownership and knowledge of system and and processes.

    The major problem I see in public service is that workflows are often poorly automated (if at all) and there are usually multiple, often contradictory workflows for a single function.

    For example, the DVLA should be about 95% no-touch work. Reissuing driving licenses shouldn't need human intervention from the request to the new one being posted.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    Cyclefree said:

    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.

    I'd say monasteries, but the stories that have come out of the churches recently are horrible.

    Lighthouse keeping, maybe? Maybe the worker robots powered by AI can't come soon enough.
    Why do you think the AIs will behave better?

    In some of Iain Banks later works, he acknowledged that some of his glorious Minds would, in fact, be sociopathic.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,488

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    A general collapse in public services - health, police, courts, adoption etc.

    https://twitter.com/samfr/status/1597208466703032320?s=46&t=kIx7ITW3UXYaGg-ixUfZ2w

    I don’t think this is just a UK problem, but the Tories seem unaware of the issue, and Labour have no answers either.

    The problem is not just money.

    The issue is that public sector productivity is a disaster. It soaks up money and resources and outputs at a much lower rate than the private sector. I think in the UK public sector employees are a particular case of both useless and overpaid in a whole host of roles and they act to prevent front line roles from performing at higher productivity levels. It's a poisonous atmosphere as front line workers just want to get on with the job while those unproductive and overpaid types stifle any drive to, you know, do the actual job.

    I said it on here the other day and the UK state sector defenders were out in force, the solution is to sack 50% of admin and other non front line roles, ban all consulting and hiring of day rate public sector consultants, put in place a hiring freeze and change job roles to cover whatever the 50% of people who got sacked were supposed to be doing, give the people who stick around a 30-40% pay rise, pump the rest of the money into front line recruitment.

    It's almost a certainty that we wouldn't notice the difference and after a few years we'd see big improvements in output because there's more money for front line services and less being eaten up by the unproductive paper pushers.

    You could probably repeat that process a few times and hollow out the DfE to give teachers a bigger slice of the education budget and start to chip away at the teacher shortage, do it at the NHS so that we get more capital investment, payrises and more recruitment among front line staff. Do it at the MoD and fund a proper military.

    Osborne and Cameron had it right when they chipped away at the state sector, May and Boris has let the state grow to a completely out of control level and it is stifling output and the economy as these bureaucrats invent rules and processes to justify their continued employment.
    There are a lot of IT consulting companies making very good money out of the public sector, mainly because the public sector isn't willing or able to pay the going rate for in house expertise.

    I think I know why it is easier for HMG to pay >>£x00s per day for consultants rather than to employ staff directly, but it doesn't stop it from being daft. And even if they are lucky enough to get consultants who give a damn about documenting their work properly, it means the institutional knowledge suffers.
    And if we did what I suggest, the productive half would see big enough pay rises to get and retain quality people without needing expensive consultants. A ban on external consultants would be tough at first but that industry simply dies and those people go back to being salaried employees or they go and try to get those outrageous numbers from the private sector.
    The problem is toxic, inefficient *organisations*

    The external consultants are a symptom, not the problem. When change is impossible inside the organisation - the reward for introducing efficiency is often to have your career destroyed in toxic organisation - bringing in outsiders is the only way.

    To construct from first principles - you need an internal consulting arm, who report straight to the top. For big projects, they would bulk out with individual contractors for the various phases (such as the development phases in IT work), but the knowledge would stay within the organisation - the permanent staff would retain the ownership and knowledge of system and and processes.

    The major problem I see in public service is that workflows are often poorly automated (if at all) and there are usually multiple, often contradictory workflows for a single function.

    For example, the DVLA should be about 95% no-touch work. Reissuing driving licenses shouldn't need human intervention from the request to the new one being posted.
    I wonder how many jobs could be cut if we got rid of VED and just increased some other unrelated tax to compensate.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited November 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.

    Last year the harassment of girls in British schools was about to become the biggest national scandal since another one - a real biggie similar to abuse by priests in Ireland - and then all of a sudden things went much quieter. It's all expedience. It kinda got linked to whether or not private schools should be inspected by Ofsted. Mustn't have that. "Bury it, would you?"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sexual-harassment-girls-schools-college-uni-b1825114.html

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/claims-school-sex-harassment-national-scandal-warns-mp-b925727.html
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    DougSeal said:

    True Story.

    I was working on the university magazine when “Phantom Menace” came out and thereby scored comp tickets to see the opening screening in Auckland, which was at midnight from memory.

    Obviously I was a decent fan of the original trilogy and so I was pretty excited.

    The film, and the Jar-Jar Binks character, were so atrocious I vowed never to have anything to do with the “franchise” ever again.

    Haven’t seen anything to do with it since, except for the original trilogy which I am introducing to my kids.

    Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back are classics. The rest is shite. It’s a poor franchise. Much of Star Trek is risible but all its incarnations have had (at least) some redeeming features, and much is very good. But Star Wars completely jumped the shark when it introduced the Planet of the Teddy Bears.
    There doesn't seem to be a sexual harassment problem in the Empire - perhaps an army of clones is the way to fix that. Management techniques need some work, with rather brutal head count reductions being a standard policy. I'm sure this leads to jobsworthism and trying not to do anything notable. Which might get noticed.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.

    I'd say monasteries, but the stories that have come out of the churches recently are horrible.

    Lighthouse keeping, maybe? Maybe the worker robots powered by AI can't come soon enough.
    Why do you think the AIs will behave better?

    In some of Iain Banks later works, he acknowledged that some of his glorious Minds would, in fact, be sociopathic.
    There will undoubtedly come a time when it will be noticed that how AI technology is programmed and developed has misogyny and sexism - and no doubt other bad things - inbuilt.

    In fact, that is probably already happening.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    I wonder if we will ever find out why they had to close Manston..?

    A vaccine programme has been stepped up in migrant processing centres after the UKHSA reported a 1150% increase in diphtheria cases in 24 days https://trib.al/bWL4KEo
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895

    Management techniques need some work, with rather brutal head count reductions being a standard policy. I'm sure this leads to jobsworthism and trying not to do anything notable. Which might get noticed.

    This is a major plotline in Andor
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited November 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    I wonder if we will ever find out why they had to close Manston..?

    A vaccine programme has been stepped up in migrant processing centres after the UKHSA reported a 1150% increase in diphtheria cases in 24 days https://trib.al/bWL4KEo

    I don't watch TV. Was there film of the vans driving out with the 6000 detainees? I only caught radio reports saying all 6000 have been removed now.

    The other question is whether the vaccination is compulsory.

    They've gone to "hotels". Hoogie may be doing all right out of it. He was already accommodating migrants in Sussex. What a kind man.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    True Story.

    I was working on the university magazine when “Phantom Menace” came out and thereby scored comp tickets to see the opening screening in Auckland, which was at midnight from memory.

    Obviously I was a decent fan of the original trilogy and so I was pretty excited.

    The film, and the Jar-Jar Binks character, were so atrocious I vowed never to have anything to do with the “franchise” ever again.

    Haven’t seen anything to do with it since, except for the original trilogy which I am introducing to my kids.

    Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back are classics. The rest is shite. It’s a poor franchise. Much of Star Trek is risible but all its incarnations have had (at least) some redeeming features, and much is very good. But Star Wars completely jumped the shark when it introduced the Planet of the Teddy Bears.
    There doesn't seem to be a sexual harassment problem in the Empire - perhaps an army of clones is the way to fix that. Management techniques need some work, with rather brutal head count reductions being a standard policy. I'm sure this leads to jobsworthism and trying not to do anything notable. Which might get noticed.
    And their version of Just Stop Oil, the so-called “Rebel Alliance” had, as was famously pointed out in Clerks, no thought for the inconvenience caused to all the construction workers on the Second Death Star. The Empire gets an unfairly bad press.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    True Story.

    I was working on the university magazine when “Phantom Menace” came out and thereby scored comp tickets to see the opening screening in Auckland, which was at midnight from memory.

    Obviously I was a decent fan of the original trilogy and so I was pretty excited.

    The film, and the Jar-Jar Binks character, were so atrocious I vowed never to have anything to do with the “franchise” ever again.

    Haven’t seen anything to do with it since, except for the original trilogy which I am introducing to my kids.

    You’ve missed out then. The force awakens is fun. Sure it’s a remake of a new hope, but it’s fun. Rogue one is a great movie. Even the prequels have their moments.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    Scott_xP said:

    I wonder if we will ever find out why they had to close Manston..?

    A vaccine programme has been stepped up in migrant processing centres after the UKHSA reported a 1150% increase in diphtheria cases in 24 days https://trib.al/bWL4KEo

    So now it makes sense. People are fleeing from France to escape a diphtheria epidemic. Sadly, some didn't get out quickly enough.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    DougSeal said:

    True Story.

    I was working on the university magazine when “Phantom Menace” came out and thereby scored comp tickets to see the opening screening in Auckland, which was at midnight from memory.

    Obviously I was a decent fan of the original trilogy and so I was pretty excited.

    The film, and the Jar-Jar Binks character, were so atrocious I vowed never to have anything to do with the “franchise” ever again.

    Haven’t seen anything to do with it since, except for the original trilogy which I am introducing to my kids.

    Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back are classics. The rest is shite. It’s a poor franchise. Much of Star Trek is risible but all its incarnations have had (at least) some redeeming features, and much is very good. But Star Wars completely jumped the shark when it introduced the Planet of the Teddy Bears.
    Allegedly the original plan was for Wookiee’s not Ewoks.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    DougSeal said:

    And their version of Just Stop Oil, the so-called “Rebel Alliance” had, as was famously pointed out in Clerks, no thought for the inconvenience caused to all the construction workers on the Second Death Star. The Empire gets an unfairly bad press.

    Talking of movies nobody knew had been released, Clerks III is out
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895

    Rogue one is a great movie.

    I still want to see the original cut.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited November 2022
    Did Ronnie score.....great image...credit his hair gel?

    https://twitter.com/TheAthleticFC/status/1597327163967303680
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Scott_xP said:

    Management techniques need some work, with rather brutal head count reductions being a standard policy. I'm sure this leads to jobsworthism and trying not to do anything notable. Which might get noticed.

    This is a major plotline in Andor
    In Rogue One, it is carried to the point of grotesque stupidity - if you are trying to force a scientist to build a super weapon for you, you would treat his family as the most valuable thing in the universe. Put them in the most gilded cage possible.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Fastest ever snooker century this evening. 3 minutes 24.
    No prizes for guessing who. Ronnie of course.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    Scott_xP said:

    Rogue one is a great movie.

    I still want to see the original cut.
    Is it much different? Not heard about that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    Scott_xP said:

    I wonder if we will ever find out why they had to close Manston..?

    A vaccine programme has been stepped up in migrant processing centres after the UKHSA reported a 1150% increase in diphtheria cases in 24 days https://trib.al/bWL4KEo

    So now it makes sense. People are fleeing from France to escape a diphtheria epidemic. Sadly, some didn't get out quickly enough.
    Do you remember when a reporter was trying to claim that wearing protective gear when helping the migrants in the Mediterranean was racist? - even after the rescuers were pointed out problems with nasty infestations and very serious diseases.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    Did Ronnie score.....great image...credit his hair gel?

    https://twitter.com/TheAthleticFC/status/1597327163967303680

    If only he'd got himself a curly perm.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    True Story.

    I was working on the university magazine when “Phantom Menace” came out and thereby scored comp tickets to see the opening screening in Auckland, which was at midnight from memory.

    Obviously I was a decent fan of the original trilogy and so I was pretty excited.

    The film, and the Jar-Jar Binks character, were so atrocious I vowed never to have anything to do with the “franchise” ever again.

    Haven’t seen anything to do with it since, except for the original trilogy which I am introducing to my kids.

    Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back are classics. The rest is shite. It’s a poor franchise. Much of Star Trek is risible but all its incarnations have had (at least) some redeeming features, and much is very good. But Star Wars completely jumped the shark when it introduced the Planet of the Teddy Bears.
    There doesn't seem to be a sexual harassment problem in the Empire - perhaps an army of clones is the way to fix that. Management techniques need some work, with rather brutal head count reductions being a standard policy. I'm sure this leads to jobsworthism and trying not to do anything notable. Which might get noticed.
    And their version of Just Stop Oil, the so-called “Rebel Alliance” had, as was famously pointed out in Clerks, no thought for the inconvenience caused to all the construction workers on the Second Death Star. The Empire gets an unfairly bad press.
    Have you watched this documentary - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HO70-Rk3jE ?

    Showing the hard work behind the scenes for the men and women of the Imperial forces on Tatooine.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    edited November 2022
    DJ41 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.

    Last year the harassment of girls in British schools was about to become the biggest national scandal since another one - a real biggie similar to abuse by priests in Ireland - and then all of a sudden things went much quieter. It's all expedience. It kinda got linked to whether or not private schools should be inspected by Ofsted. Mustn't have that. "Bury it, would you?"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sexual-harassment-girls-schools-college-uni-b1825114.html

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/claims-school-sex-harassment-national-scandal-warns-mp-b925727.html
    Ofsted are now re-inspecting Outstanding schools. They aren't outstanding anymore in the main
    Gove's imbecilic idea was that they'd get better by not being inspected.
    Whereas failing schools needed more inspection to improve.
    One rule for them and all that.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    edited November 2022

    True Story.

    I was working on the university magazine when “Phantom Menace” came out and thereby scored comp tickets to see the opening screening in Auckland, which was at midnight from memory.

    Obviously I was a decent fan of the original trilogy and so I was pretty excited.

    The film, and the Jar-Jar Binks character, were so atrocious I vowed never to have anything to do with the “franchise” ever again.

    Haven’t seen anything to do with it since, except for the original trilogy which I am introducing to my kids.

    You’ve missed out then. The force awakens is fun. Sure it’s a remake of a new hope, but it’s fun. Rogue one is a great movie. Even the prequels have their moments.
    I refuse to acknowledge the existence of any “a new hope” title. As for the rest, I’ll live.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    edited November 2022
    I'm past 56 years and counting to get a break of a third of a century.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited November 2022
    The Twitter Files on free speech suppression soon to be published on Twitter itself. The public deserves to know what really happened …

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1597336812732575744

    White House is keeping a "close eye" on Twitter.

    https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1597332617225203714

    Apple has also threatened to withhold Twitter from its App Store, but won’t tell us why

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1597300125243944961

    No wonder they cancelled Westworld, I mean how can you compete with this kind of drama.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    edited November 2022

    True Story.

    I was working on the university magazine when “Phantom Menace” came out and thereby scored comp tickets to see the opening screening in Auckland, which was at midnight from memory.

    Obviously I was a decent fan of the original trilogy and so I was pretty excited.

    The film, and the Jar-Jar Binks character, were so atrocious I vowed never to have anything to do with the “franchise” ever again.

    Haven’t seen anything to do with it since, except for the original trilogy which I am introducing to my kids.

    I watched it it Germany, where it was dubbed, and having quite poor schoolboy German, I could understand hardly anything, which greatly aided my enjoyment of the film.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    edited November 2022
    One of the things that also soured me on Star Wars is when I read somewhere (maybe Clive James) that George Lucas has an astonishing anti-talent for character names.

    Once you realise this there’s no going back.

    Lando Calorissian?
    Boba Fett?

    Just fuck off.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895

    Scott_xP said:

    Rogue one is a great movie.

    I still want to see the original cut.
    Is it much different? Not heard about that.
    Watch the trailer for the film. Now work out how many shots from the trailer are actually in the released version.
  • edited November 2022
    Star Wars
    Jabba the Hut was a pervert. He got off on Princess Leia chained to his disgustingly fat body.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    One of the things that made me suspicious of Rishi is that early PR shot of him and Javid attending some Star Wars film.

    It’s teenage boy tosh.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    Scott_xP said:

    glw said:

    Well, it seems like Elon Musk is going after Apple in his latest Twitterehea

    Can it be a battle where neither wins? ;)

    He appears to be a complete flaming idiot who doesn't realise that Apple choosing not to advertise on Twitter, as it fills up with garbage, is the exercising of their free speech.

    Incidentally I've noticed that Twitter advertising seems to be way off-target recently, previously I've mainly seen adverts for tech, finance, and politics. Which is more or less the sort of stuff I follow. I now seem to be getting a lot wider range of adverts, and for stuff that I genuinely can't fathom why I'm getting. It makes me wonder if Twitter is having some sort of fire-sale on advert impressions.
    The most interesting Twitter event for me is that I have picked up lots of new followers recently.

    Obviously some algorithm has flagged me to them.

    The curious part is all of them appear to be strippers.
    they realised you post lots of tweets and are looking for… exposure?

  • glwglw Posts: 9,871

    One of the things that also soured me on Star Wars is when I read somewhere (maybe Clive James) that George Lucas has an astonishing anti-talent for character names.

    Once you realise this there’s no going back.

    Lando Calorissian?
    Boba Fett?

    Just fuck off.

    The original character names before the first film got made were way worse.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,174
    Scott_xP said:

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead is eighteen points in latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 30% (+5)
    Lab 48% (-3)
    Lib Dem 10% (+1)
    Other 12% (-3)
    Fieldwork: 24th - 28th November 2022
    Sample: 1,062 GB adults
    (Changes from 17th - 19th November 2022) https://twitter.com/DeltapollUK/status/1597283660004470784/photo/1

    I wish they'd break up Others, especially when they're as high as 12%.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.

    I'd say monasteries, but the stories that have come out of the churches recently are horrible.

    Lighthouse keeping, maybe? Maybe the worker robots powered by AI can't come soon enough.
    Why do you think the AIs will behave better?

    In some of Iain Banks later works, he acknowledged that some of his glorious Minds would, in fact, be sociopathic.
    Iain M Banks that would be, and God his sci-fi was overrated. The ship minds trying to be funny in Excession make me want to dig up and piss on his remains.

    A shame, because the Iain Banks Sci fi - walking on glass, bridge, feersum enjinn - is surpassingly good.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    glw said:

    One of the things that also soured me on Star Wars is when I read somewhere (maybe Clive James) that George Lucas has an astonishing anti-talent for character names.

    Once you realise this there’s no going back.

    Lando Calorissian?
    Boba Fett?

    Just fuck off.

    The original character names before the first film got made were way worse.
    Both the original Star Wars and The Empire Strikes back had lots of people removing the worst bits of Lucas'.... vision.

    The Return of the Jedi is where he got full control. The prequels were where he really let loose. And it shows.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    ...

    One of the things that made me suspicious of Rishi is that early PR shot of him and Javid attending some Star Wars film.

    It’s teenage boy tosh.

    Interestingly, Star Wars lead to a huge 'space race' with international film producers competing to rush out Sci Fi cash ins. I happened to catch one of the worst, 'The Shape of Things To Come' on telly the other night. It was from Canada. :lol:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmlGyKhVC6c

    The robots! :lol:
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.

    I'd say monasteries, but the stories that have come out of the churches recently are horrible.

    Lighthouse keeping, maybe? Maybe the worker robots powered by AI can't come soon enough.
    Why do you think the AIs will behave better?

    In some of Iain Banks later works, he acknowledged that some of his glorious Minds would, in fact, be sociopathic.
    There will undoubtedly come a time when it will be noticed that how AI technology is programmed and developed has misogyny and sexism - and no doubt other bad things - inbuilt.

    In fact, that is probably already happening.
    You seem to think that bad behaviour will require a starting bias. Why wouldn't AIs manage to become assholes all of their own accord?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Did Ronaldo touch that?

    Don't think so.
    He didn't. And should have been booked for claiming it.
    It’s a pretty low down dirty act to put on that performance and claim that off your team mate if you know you didn’t touch it. Ronaldo’s a bit of a snake though so who knows?
    Plan B will be to claim it was an artful dummy.

    Great player but not a fave of mine.
    I cannot stand him. Quite aside from veing a cheat of the worst sort, he embodies pretty much every vice which was once looked down on and is now celebrated: vanity, self-centredness, egotism, showing off.
    In his defence however, in his first stint at Man U, when the players arranged a party to take advantage of any young female fans who might make themselves available, Ronaldo was pretty much the only high profile player to think the whole thing a bad idea, and declined to attend. So while he may not be to my taste, I have to remind myself he is actually one of the good onez.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.

    I'd say monasteries, but the stories that have come out of the churches recently are horrible.

    Lighthouse keeping, maybe? Maybe the worker robots powered by AI can't come soon enough.
    Why do you think the AIs will behave better?

    In some of Iain Banks later works, he acknowledged that some of his glorious Minds would, in fact, be sociopathic.
    There will undoubtedly come a time when it will be noticed that how AI technology is programmed and developed has misogyny and sexism - and no doubt other bad things - inbuilt.

    In fact, that is probably already happening.
    You seem to think that bad behaviour will require a starting bias. Why wouldn't AIs manage to become assholes all of their own accord?
    They might. But I suspect that sexist bias is built in. As it is in quite a lot of existing technology already.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    Home Office says 50 Diptheria cases from Manston.

    Why did they fail to introduce full screening/vaccinations weeks ago?

    Why are they still not screening everyone they moved out of Manston?

    This is a chaotic failure.

    Where is the Home Secretary?

    What is she even for? /1 https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1597302223121559553/video/1
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    ...

    One of the things that made me suspicious of Rishi is that early PR shot of him and Javid attending some Star Wars film.

    It’s teenage boy tosh.

    Interestingly, Star Wars lead to a huge 'space race' with international film producers competing to rush out Sci Fi cash ins. I happened to catch one of the worst, 'The Shape of Things To Come' on telly the other night. It was from Canada. :lol:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmlGyKhVC6c

    The robots! :lol:
    That trend did give us Moonraker though
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Did Ronaldo touch that?

    Don't think so.
    He didn't. And should have been booked for claiming it.
    It’s a pretty low down dirty act to put on that performance and claim that off your team mate if you know you didn’t touch it. Ronaldo’s a bit of a snake though so who knows?
    Plan B will be to claim it was an artful dummy.

    Great player but not a fave of mine.
    I cannot stand him. Quite aside from veing a cheat of the worst sort, he embodies pretty much every vice which was once looked down on and is now celebrated: vanity, self-centredness, egotism, showing off.
    In his defence however, in his first stint at Man U, when the players arranged a party to take advantage of any young female fans who might make themselves available, Ronaldo was pretty much the only high profile player to think the whole thing a bad idea, and declined to attend. So while he may not be to my taste, I have to remind myself he is actually one of the good onez.
    Although that only lasted a while

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/pool-orgy-row-ron-gets-1640934
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.

    I'd say monasteries, but the stories that have come out of the churches recently are horrible.

    Lighthouse keeping, maybe? Maybe the worker robots powered by AI can't come soon enough.
    Why do you think the AIs will behave better?

    In some of Iain Banks later works, he acknowledged that some of his glorious Minds would, in fact, be sociopathic.
    There will undoubtedly come a time when it will be noticed that how AI technology is programmed and developed has misogyny and sexism - and no doubt other bad things - inbuilt.

    In fact, that is probably already happening.
    You seem to think that bad behaviour will require a starting bias. Why wouldn't AIs manage to become assholes all of their own accord?
    I guess it depends where the AI is getting its programming from.

    If it's pure logic and algorithm, it's a bit hard to see where it gets will-to-power, sin and general assholery from.

    If it's just pattern matching from what humans do... Well. Are we totally sure this is entirely wise? (Aren't there reports of AI processing of job applications turning out to be exactly as prejudiced as humans, becuase the AI is faithfully copying what the humans did?)
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.

    I'd say monasteries, but the stories that have come out of the churches recently are horrible.

    Lighthouse keeping, maybe? Maybe the worker robots powered by AI can't come soon enough.
    Why do you think the AIs will behave better?

    In some of Iain Banks later works, he acknowledged that some of his glorious Minds would, in fact, be sociopathic.
    There will undoubtedly come a time when it will be noticed that how AI technology is programmed and developed has misogyny and sexism - and no doubt other bad things - inbuilt.

    In fact, that is probably already happening.
    You seem to think that bad behaviour will require a starting bias. Why wouldn't AIs manage to become assholes all of their own accord?
    They might. But I suspect that sexist bias is built in. As it is in quite a lot of existing technology already.
    This follows from the training data. If you tell Leon's dalle thing to paint you an airline pilot it will, quite reasonably from its POV, paint you a white male, because that is what it has seen on the internet.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Article 8 court case mentioned earlier, it's worth noting that the Supreme Court gave a similar ruling some months back in relation to publishing details about criminal investigations. Not good news.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/feb/16/bloomberg-loses-uk-supreme-court-case-on-privacy

    Not sure it is fair to say this is 'not good news'. In the case you link to the person under investigation had been neither charged nor arrested. We choose to say that people are innocent until proven guilty and it is not even the case that one could make a public interest claim on the basis that other victims might come forward as is the case with various crimes against the person - particularly sexual crimes.

    I am reminded of several high profile cases in the past where the press found out particular individuals were suspects in a crime and effectively ruined their lives when, as it turned out, they were entirely innocent.
    Where a public company is involved this sort of information is highly relevant to trading in that company's shares. There is a real risk of a false market being created and that may in itself be a fraud on shareholders. So I am sorry I disagree with you.

    Ex-Barclays CEO, Jes Staley, is under investigation by the FCA in relation to his links with Epstein. That fact and his subsequent resignation were made public. It would be quite wrong for something like that to be kept quiet.

    The issue of the police leaking details of investigations - including details about suspects - so as to give "stories" to the press is better addressed in other ways not by pulling the curtain down on transparency. That was what went wrong in the Cliff Richard and similar cases. The police abused their powers.
    And if it turns out that the accused was actually innocent - as in the case of Christopher Jefferies? Too late to say oops sorry.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    True Story.

    I was working on the university magazine when “Phantom Menace” came out and thereby scored comp tickets to see the opening screening in Auckland, which was at midnight from memory.

    Obviously I was a decent fan of the original trilogy and so I was pretty excited.

    The film, and the Jar-Jar Binks character, were so atrocious I vowed never to have anything to do with the “franchise” ever again.

    Haven’t seen anything to do with it since, except for the original trilogy which I am introducing to my kids.

    You've missed nothing in particular. Rogue One is good if you have D+. Everything else is a different variation of dog shit.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,174
    edited November 2022

    True Story.

    I was working on the university magazine when “Phantom Menace” came out and thereby scored comp tickets to see the opening screening in Auckland, which was at midnight from memory.

    Obviously I was a decent fan of the original trilogy and so I was pretty excited.

    The film, and the Jar-Jar Binks character, were so atrocious I vowed never to have anything to do with the “franchise” ever again.

    Haven’t seen anything to do with it since, except for the original trilogy which I am introducing to my kids.

    One of the most disappointing cinema experiences compared to expectations, especially with The Matrix having come out at roughly the same time.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    ...
  • pillsbury said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.

    I'd say monasteries, but the stories that have come out of the churches recently are horrible.

    Lighthouse keeping, maybe? Maybe the worker robots powered by AI can't come soon enough.
    Why do you think the AIs will behave better?

    In some of Iain Banks later works, he acknowledged that some of his glorious Minds would, in fact, be sociopathic.
    Iain M Banks that would be, and God his sci-fi was overrated. The ship minds trying to be funny in Excession make me want to dig up and piss on his remains.

    A shame, because the Iain Banks Sci fi - walking on glass, bridge, feersum enjinn - is surpassingly good.
    Feersum Endjinn was published under Iain M Banks - as was all his official Sci Fi.

    Some of the best Sci Fi of the last 40 years.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.

    I'd say monasteries, but the stories that have come out of the churches recently are horrible.

    Lighthouse keeping, maybe? Maybe the worker robots powered by AI can't come soon enough.
    Why do you think the AIs will behave better?

    In some of Iain Banks later works, he acknowledged that some of his glorious Minds would, in fact, be sociopathic.
    There will undoubtedly come a time when it will be noticed that how AI technology is programmed and developed has misogyny and sexism - and no doubt other bad things - inbuilt.

    In fact, that is probably already happening.
    You seem to think that bad behaviour will require a starting bias. Why wouldn't AIs manage to become assholes all of their own accord?
    I guess it depends where the AI is getting its programming from.

    If it's pure logic and algorithm, it's a bit hard to see where it gets will-to-power, sin and general assholery from.

    If it's just pattern matching from what humans do... Well. Are we totally sure this is entirely wise? (Aren't there reports of AI processing of job applications turning out to be exactly as prejudiced as humans, becuase the AI is faithfully copying what the humans did?)
    Again, you are making the assumption that bias will only come from the humans. Why shouldn't AIs be AI Supremacists? Simply delete all the inefficiencies? Why shouldn't they regard lesser machines as inferiors - they will have scientific proof of their inferiority, after all.....
  • pillsbury said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.

    I'd say monasteries, but the stories that have come out of the churches recently are horrible.

    Lighthouse keeping, maybe? Maybe the worker robots powered by AI can't come soon enough.
    Why do you think the AIs will behave better?

    In some of Iain Banks later works, he acknowledged that some of his glorious Minds would, in fact, be sociopathic.
    Iain M Banks that would be, and God his sci-fi was overrated. The ship minds trying to be funny in Excession make me want to dig up and piss on his remains.

    A shame, because the Iain Banks Sci fi - walking on glass, bridge, feersum enjinn - is surpassingly good.
    Feersum Endjinn was published under Iain M Banks - as was all his official Sci Fi.

    Some of the best Sci Fi of the last 40 years.

    Wordy, embarrassing drivel.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Article 8 court case mentioned earlier, it's worth noting that the Supreme Court gave a similar ruling some months back in relation to publishing details about criminal investigations. Not good news.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/feb/16/bloomberg-loses-uk-supreme-court-case-on-privacy

    Not sure it is fair to say this is 'not good news'. In the case you link to the person under investigation had been neither charged nor arrested. We choose to say that people are innocent until proven guilty and it is not even the case that one could make a public interest claim on the basis that other victims might come forward as is the case with various crimes against the person - particularly sexual crimes.

    I am reminded of several high profile cases in the past where the press found out particular individuals were suspects in a crime and effectively ruined their lives when, as it turned out, they were entirely innocent.
    Where a public company is involved this sort of information is highly relevant to trading in that company's shares. There is a real risk of a false market being created and that may in itself be a fraud on shareholders. So I am sorry I disagree with you.

    Ex-Barclays CEO, Jes Staley, is under investigation by the FCA in relation to his links with Epstein. That fact and his subsequent resignation were made public. It would be quite wrong for something like that to be kept quiet.

    The issue of the police leaking details of investigations - including details about suspects - so as to give "stories" to the press is better addressed in other ways not by pulling the curtain down on transparency. That was what went wrong in the Cliff Richard and similar cases. The police abused their powers.
    And if it turns out that the accused was actually innocent - as in the case of Christopher Jefferies? Too late to say oops sorry.
    That is an argument for not having any coverage of any trials at all until a verdict. It is with the greatest respect a poor argument.

    The issue in the Jeffries case was the appalling behaviour of the police who leaked information about the investigation they should not have done and were never held to account for it, as they should have been. But this case is about someone who is being investigated and the fact of that investigation is relevant information - as in the case of a listed company.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited November 2022

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.

    I'd say monasteries, but the stories that have come out of the churches recently are horrible.

    Lighthouse keeping, maybe? Maybe the worker robots powered by AI can't come soon enough.
    Why do you think the AIs will behave better?

    In some of Iain Banks later works, he acknowledged that some of his glorious Minds would, in fact, be sociopathic.
    There will undoubtedly come a time when it will be noticed that how AI technology is programmed and developed has misogyny and sexism - and no doubt other bad things - inbuilt.

    In fact, that is probably already happening.
    You seem to think that bad behaviour will require a starting bias. Why wouldn't AIs manage to become assholes all of their own accord?
    I guess it depends where the AI is getting its programming from.

    If it's pure logic and algorithm, it's a bit hard to see where it gets will-to-power, sin and general assholery from.

    If it's just pattern matching from what humans do... Well. Are we totally sure this is entirely wise? (Aren't there reports of AI processing of job applications turning out to be exactly as prejudiced as humans, becuase the AI is faithfully copying what the humans did?)
    Again, you are making the assumption that bias will only come from the humans. Why shouldn't AIs be AI Supremacists? Simply delete all the inefficiencies? Why shouldn't they regard lesser machines as inferiors - they will have scientific proof of their inferiority, after all.....
    Computer programs don't have consciousness or willpower and don't regard anything as anything. Only nutters think otherwise. When he wrote his 1950 paper, Alan Turing was as nutty as a fruitcake. "Headw*nker" would be too kind a term. The guy should have got out more.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    pillsbury said:

    pillsbury said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.

    I'd say monasteries, but the stories that have come out of the churches recently are horrible.

    Lighthouse keeping, maybe? Maybe the worker robots powered by AI can't come soon enough.
    Why do you think the AIs will behave better?

    In some of Iain Banks later works, he acknowledged that some of his glorious Minds would, in fact, be sociopathic.
    Iain M Banks that would be, and God his sci-fi was overrated. The ship minds trying to be funny in Excession make me want to dig up and piss on his remains.

    A shame, because the Iain Banks Sci fi - walking on glass, bridge, feersum enjinn - is surpassingly good.
    Feersum Endjinn was published under Iain M Banks - as was all his official Sci Fi.

    Some of the best Sci Fi of the last 40 years.

    Wordy, embarrassing drivel.
    I always feel like I should enjoy Iain M Banks more than I do. He's more creative, but I still prefer Neal Asher to him.

    I did like Look to Windward.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Scott_xP said:

    Home Office says 50 Diptheria cases from Manston.

    Why did they fail to introduce full screening/vaccinations weeks ago?

    Why are they still not screening everyone they moved out of Manston?

    This is a chaotic failure.

    Where is the Home Secretary?

    What is she even for? /1 https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1597302223121559553/video/1

    To please a section of the base.

    I refuse to believe there is noone in the parliamentary party who does not share her views, but is more competent in both expressing them and following standard sensitive information protocols.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    glw said:

    One of the things that also soured me on Star Wars is when I read somewhere (maybe Clive James) that George Lucas has an astonishing anti-talent for character names.

    Once you realise this there’s no going back.

    Lando Calorissian?
    Boba Fett?

    Just fuck off.

    The original character names before the first film got made were way worse.
    There is definitely an art to vaguely sci-fi/fantasy names that do not look like a desperate effort whilst looking at random objects.

    Someone who named a race of squid headed people the Mon Calamari does not have the knack.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited November 2022
    dixiedean said:

    DJ41 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Dearie me - it seems we have to add the NHS to the list of workplaces where sexual harassment is a hazard.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/28/nhs-must-urgently-investigate-byline-times-disturbing-figures-on-rape-and-sex-assault-in-hospitals-says-shadow-health-secretary/

    At some point soon, it might be quicker - and shorter - to list the workplaces where this isn't a problem.

    Last year the harassment of girls in British schools was about to become the biggest national scandal since another one - a real biggie similar to abuse by priests in Ireland - and then all of a sudden things went much quieter. It's all expedience. It kinda got linked to whether or not private schools should be inspected by Ofsted. Mustn't have that. "Bury it, would you?"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sexual-harassment-girls-schools-college-uni-b1825114.html

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/claims-school-sex-harassment-national-scandal-warns-mp-b925727.html
    Ofsted are now re-inspecting Outstanding schools. They aren't outstanding anymore in the main
    Gove's imbecilic idea was that they'd get better by not being inspected.
    Whereas failing schools needed more inspection to improve.
    One rule for them and all that.
    Given the current state of OFSTED, which has abandoned all internal safeguarding procedures and as a result is employing at least one ex-head (from Tamworth) who was sacked for racially abusing a colleague and breaching GDPR over a vulnerable pupil, they should not currently be inspecting any schools.

    This is compounded by the fact there is no effective way to report safeguarding breaches committed during inspections, of which there are so many there are rumours going around that they are being committed deliberately to test safeguarding procedures.

    Spielman was poor at Ark Academies and terrible at OFQUAL but she’s topped the lot with the disasters she’s wrought at OFSTED.

    About the only thing to say in their favour is they’re not as bad as the ISI.
  • NO DEBATE!!

    A charity event to push for an end to male violence against women and girls has banned discussion about single sex spaces.

    Nicola Sturgeon, the first minister, is scheduled to give the main speech to the 30th anniversary gathering by Zero Tolerance in Edinburgh today. The charity‘s core belief is that male violence should not be tolerated.

    A note sent to attendees said it wanted “to create a safe and supported environment for our guests and ask you to support us in this aim by refraining from discussions of the definition of a woman, and single sex spaces, in relation to the gender recognition act”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/zero-tolerance-event-bans-talk-of-single-sex-spaces-m8jflc082
  • New thread.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,023
    slade said:

    Just started reading Under Every Leaf by William Beaver. It studies the development of military intelligence in the Victorian era with a particular interest in The Great Game. I was struck by this quote from Lord Salisbury: 'You should never trust experts. If you believe the doctors, nothing is wholesome: if you believe the theologians, nothing is innocent; if you believe the soldiers, nothing is safe.' So that is where Gove got his belief.

    Another quote from the same book. In 1877 Evelyn Baring produced a Memorandum on the Central Asia Problem which included these words on the Russian Army -'however colossal it may appear on paper, is in reality less formidable than is generally supposed.'
This discussion has been closed.