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Some of the front pages after Hunt’s budget – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited November 17 in General
imageSome of the front pages after Hunt’s budget – politicalbetting.com

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  • Well done Jeremy
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,029
    Whatever happened to the Ministry for - don't laugh - Brexit Opportunities?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,229
    Yes, the country is screwed. There doesn't seem to be that much that has surprised about the statement, and the government is by and large doing what it has been indicating it would do for the last 4 weeks. It may well even be the right things to do in the circumstances (no one seems to have a way to magic up growth,m and in the absence of that we need a lot of cash)).

    But the next election is already lost. Best enjoy those ministerial cars whilst they can.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,229
    edited November 17
    EPG said:

    Whatever happened to the Ministry for - don't laugh - Brexit Opportunities?

    There wasn't one.

    There was a junior minister with that title, who was inexplicably given a seat in Cabinet despite that lack of department or ministry, as Boris did not trust him with an actual department (Truss did, though).

    The office appears to be vacant.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers/minister-of-state-minister-for-brexit-opportunities-and-government-efficiency
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,471
    kle4 said:

    Yes, the country is screwed. There doesn't seem to be that much that has surprised about the statement, and the government is by and large doing what it has been indicating it would do for the last 4 weeks. It may well even be the right things to do in the circumstances (no one seems to have a way to magic up growth,m and in the absence of that we need a lot of cash)).

    But the next election is already lost. Best enjoy those ministerial cars whilst they can.

    The Government isn't interested in growth.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,502

    Jonathan said:

    So what the budget consensus? I though Reeves did well.

    The judgement of the papers are coming in…

    “Financial Trap set for Labour” simpers the independent. Big G was right.

    “Sanity restored after insanity of Kwartengs budget.” Acclaims the Financial Times. 🥳

    “Futtocks End and other short stories, Blu-ray accl- Wait. That’s an advert on page.

    The Daily Star has a gimp in latex and hornets in your pants. I’ll put them down as, sanguine?
    As they have photo of Hunt wet on his morning jog, it’s rather tame “Soak the strivers” from Daily Mail.
    “Rhetoric of Osborne and the policies of Brown” blurts out the Telegraph from the club chair, leaving us wondering is that meant to be an insult? Ossie was great at rhetoric, and to this day, outside the lounge at the con club, people say Brown was fine as chancellor, shit as PM, don’t they?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,229

    kle4 said:

    Yes, the country is screwed. There doesn't seem to be that much that has surprised about the statement, and the government is by and large doing what it has been indicating it would do for the last 4 weeks. It may well even be the right things to do in the circumstances (no one seems to have a way to magic up growth,m and in the absence of that we need a lot of cash)).

    But the next election is already lost. Best enjoy those ministerial cars whilst they can.

    The Government isn't interested in growth.
    No, but no one has suggested a credible plan to achieve it anyway - Truss and Kwarteng's plan was to wish upon a star, more or less, given their lack of planning. So since no one is offering growth beyond saying the word, the options before us are limited.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,029
    But his pals tried already, and the strategy delivered a hundred-seat majority to venal clowns because that's how bad his pals were.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,229
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Interesting that since the first and last bullet points appear to be positively framed under the Victory heading, I assume they also regard it as a victory to face the highest tax burden.

    Which wouldn't be that absurd, it is how the other two can still happen.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 19,555
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Interesting that since the first and last bullet points appear to be positively framed under the Victory heading, I assume they also regard it as a victory to face the highest tax burden.

    Which wouldn't be that absurd, it is how the other two can still happen.
    Amazing front page. Owned by Trinity Mirror too.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 19,555
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Interesting that since the first and last bullet points appear to be positively framed under the Victory heading, I assume they also regard it as a victory to face the highest tax burden.

    Which wouldn't be that absurd, it is how the other two can still happen.
    Didn't realise his name was Vic.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,093

    kle4 said:

    Yes, the country is screwed. There doesn't seem to be that much that has surprised about the statement, and the government is by and large doing what it has been indicating it would do for the last 4 weeks. It may well even be the right things to do in the circumstances (no one seems to have a way to magic up growth,m and in the absence of that we need a lot of cash)).

    But the next election is already lost. Best enjoy those ministerial cars whilst they can.

    The Government isn't interested in growth.
    It's more that growth isn't interested in government.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 2,719
    Funny day today. Fairly sensible policies from Hunt, and a decent delivery, but it’s thrown into sharp focus the utter economic mess the country is in thanks to his predecessors. It also reminds us all of the essential emptiness of Osborne’s austerity. So I think the polling impact of today will be a small notch downwards.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,029
    TimS said:

    Funny day today. Fairly sensible policies from Hunt, and a decent delivery, but it’s thrown into sharp focus the utter economic mess the country is in thanks to his predecessors. It also reminds us all of the essential emptiness of Osborne’s austerity. So I think the polling impact of today will be a small notch downwards.

    Osborne's austerity was at least borne by the government Osborne was in. Hunt pumped up welfare and asked Labour to do something about it later.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,502

    Jonathan said:

    So what the budget consensus? I though Reeves did well.

    The judgement of the papers are coming in…

    “Financial Trap set for Labour” simpers the independent. Big G was right.

    “Sanity restored after insanity of Kwartengs budget.” Acclaims the Financial Times. 🥳

    “Futtocks End and other short stories, Blu-ray accl- Wait. That’s an advert on page.

    The Daily Star has a gimp in latex and hornets in your pants. I’ll put them down as, sanguine?
    As they have photo of Hunt wet on his morning jog, it’s rather tame “Soak the strivers” from Daily Mail.
    “Rhetoric of Osborne and the policies of Brown” blurts out the Telegraph from the club chair, leaving us wondering is that meant to be an insult? Ossie was great at rhetoric, and to this day, outside the lounge at the con club, people say Brown was fine as chancellor, shit as PM, don’t they?
    “Victory!” Yells the daily express, alongside photo of Hunt in Cage Fighter mode. In smaller print it’s victory for the paper being hailed as they single handedly saved the Triple Lock.

    Take out so far how “trap for Labour” and “highest tax burden since Second World War” are the two stand outs on the heat map.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 2,719
    EPG said:

    But his pals tried already, and the strategy delivered a hundred-seat majority to venal clowns because that's how bad his pals were.
    Why bother hating the actual in-government Tories when as a true faithful lefty you’re much better off hating the slightly less ideologically pure members of your own side?

    The Labour equivalent of ERGers hating Theresa May.

    At least Alexei Sayle is quite funny, to be fair. His fellow travellers on the far left and right are generally humourless.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,502
    EPG said:

    TimS said:

    Funny day today. Fairly sensible policies from Hunt, and a decent delivery, but it’s thrown into sharp focus the utter economic mess the country is in thanks to his predecessors. It also reminds us all of the essential emptiness of Osborne’s austerity. So I think the polling impact of today will be a small notch downwards.

    Osborne's austerity was at least borne by the government Osborne was in. Hunt pumped up welfare and asked Labour to do something about it later.
    I’m getting a feeling this budget could lose Tories support rightwards to reform. The Tory party don’t seem to see “highest tax burden since war and tax put up even more by growth choking budget” as necessary today. They see it as political and ideological choice by this front bench.

    And if you think cuts could have been made today instead of tax rises, if you think HS2 could have been scrapped today instead of tax rises, then you would think this as Tory wet political decisions and not wholly necessary, wouldn’t you?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 19,930
    edited November 17
    TimS said:

    EPG said:

    But his pals tried already, and the strategy delivered a hundred-seat majority to venal clowns because that's how bad his pals were.
    Why bother hating the actual in-government Tories when as a true faithful lefty you’re much better off hating the slightly less ideologically pure members of your own side?

    The Labour equivalent of ERGers hating Theresa May.

    At least Alexei Sayle is quite funny, to be fair. His fellow travellers on the far left and right are generally humourless.
    I love Alexei Sayle's cameo in the film Gorky Park. Have to watch it again pretty soon, haven't seen it for ages.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,267
    edited November 17
    The Tories are an utter shambles.
    The largest tax cut in history followed by the largest tax rise ever.
    My arse.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,502

    Jonathan said:

    So what the budget consensus? I though Reeves did well.

    The judgement of the papers are coming in…

    “Financial Trap set for Labour” simpers the independent. Big G was right.

    “Sanity restored after insanity of Kwartengs budget.” Acclaims the Financial Times. 🥳

    “Futtocks End and other short stories, Blu-ray accl- Wait. That’s an advert on page.

    The Daily Star has a gimp in latex and hornets in your pants. I’ll put them down as, sanguine?
    As they have photo of Hunt wet on his morning jog, it’s rather tame “Soak the strivers” from Daily Mail.
    “Rhetoric of Osborne and the policies of Brown” blurts out the Telegraph from the club chair, leaving us wondering is that meant to be an insult? Ossie was great at rhetoric, and to this day, outside the lounge at the con club, people say Brown was fine as chancellor, shit as PM, don’t they?
    “Victory!” Yells the daily express, alongside photo of Hunt in Cage Fighter mode. In smaller print it’s victory for the paper being hailed as they single handedly saved the Triple Lock.

    Take out so far how “trap for Labour” and “highest tax burden since Second World War” are the two stand outs on the heat map.
    Times has one of those ridiculous Hunt in school photographs, otherwise is very supportive of book balancing budget.

    The Mirror predictably tries nothing other than smear all the blame over the Tories, when we know if Reeves gave same budget their blame would only be international situation and Putin.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,776
    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    EPG said:

    But his pals tried already, and the strategy delivered a hundred-seat majority to venal clowns because that's how bad his pals were.
    Why bother hating the actual in-government Tories when as a true faithful lefty you’re much better off hating the slightly less ideologically pure members of your own side?

    The Labour equivalent of ERGers hating Theresa May.

    At least Alexei Sayle is quite funny, to be fair. His fellow travellers on the far left and right are generally humourless.
    I love Alexei Sayle's cameo in the film Gorky Park. Have to watch it again pretty soon, haven't seen it for ages.
    I watched that last weekend. Quite a good film, and also a good book.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,222

    EPG said:

    TimS said:

    Funny day today. Fairly sensible policies from Hunt, and a decent delivery, but it’s thrown into sharp focus the utter economic mess the country is in thanks to his predecessors. It also reminds us all of the essential emptiness of Osborne’s austerity. So I think the polling impact of today will be a small notch downwards.

    Osborne's austerity was at least borne by the government Osborne was in. Hunt pumped up welfare and asked Labour to do something about it later.
    I’m getting a feeling this budget could lose Tories support rightwards to reform. The Tory party don’t seem to see “highest tax burden since war and tax put up even more by growth choking budget” as necessary today. They see it as political and ideological choice by this front bench.

    And if you think cuts could have been made today instead of tax rises, if you think HS2 could have been scrapped today instead of tax rises, then you would think this as Tory wet political decisions and not wholly necessary, wouldn’t you?
    Our biggest problem is that we consume too much of our GDP. Osborne tried to rebalance that but he failed. No one has even tried since until, arguably, today. The fall in incomes will drive down consumption. The preservation of the capital budgets helps a bit with investment. I would have liked to see more efforts to encourage private investment but it is a start.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    gabyhinsliff
    @gabyhinsliff
    ·
    4h
    i guess we're about to find out how low the Tory vote can go (used to be told the absolute floor was 20%, but wouldn't bet on it)

    ===

    Not sure I agree with this. I suspect many will say not a bad budget given the shit we are in.

  • glwglw Posts: 8,776

    TimS said:

    Funny day today. Fairly sensible policies from Hunt, and a decent delivery, but it’s thrown into sharp focus the utter economic mess the country is in thanks to his predecessors. It also reminds us all of the essential emptiness of Osborne’s austerity. So I think the polling impact of today will be a small notch downwards.

    Definite feel today that whether you agree with the nuance of this or that finance policy, the adults are back in the room for the first time in years.

    There's a lot of mess from the frat party to tidy up.

    It was a gimmick free and broadly sensible announcement, obviously the circumstances are terrible and so nobody is all that happy with the result, but we could do with similar governing once things do improve. It's been a bloody long time since I heard a similar announcement, maybe the early years of Blair's government.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 46,920
    edited November 17
    dixiedean said:

    The Tories are an utter shambles.
    The largest tax cut in history followed by the largest tax rise ever.
    My arse.

    They have been, for sure.

    I actually think the current iteration is as sensible a form of Government as we could have right now. We spent an extraordinary amount of money on getting the bulk of our private sector through Covid. Now we have to be grown up about how that gets paid for. This was a grown up budget for bleak times.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    Kicking off in Ashfield, Notts:


    Ashfield District Council leader and five other councillors arrested

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-63664195
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,874
    edited November 17
    Quite clearly Hunt has left the main unpopular spending and austerity decisions to tackle the deficit for the likely Starmer government to deal with after the next general election. He also froze thresholds and lowered the threshold for additional rate income tax but didn't really increase tax rates, again he left it to Starmer and Reeves to do that.

    A bit like Liam Byrnes 'there is no money left' note for Osborne in 2010 there will be no golden economic legacy from this Tory government as Major and Clarke left for Blair and Brown in 1997
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,248

    Jonathan said:

    So what the budget consensus? I though Reeves did well.

    The judgement of the papers are coming in…

    “Financial Trap set for Labour” simpers the independent. Big G was right.

    “Sanity restored after insanity of Kwartengs budget.” Acclaims the Financial Times. 🥳

    “Futtocks End and other short stories, Blu-ray accl- Wait. That’s an advert on page.

    The Daily Star has a gimp in latex and hornets in your pants. I’ll put them down as, sanguine?
    As they have photo of Hunt wet on his morning jog, it’s rather tame “Soak the strivers” from Daily Mail.
    “Rhetoric of Osborne and the policies of Brown” blurts out the Telegraph from the club chair, leaving us wondering is that meant to be an insult? Ossie was great at rhetoric, and to this day, outside the lounge at the con club, people say Brown was fine as chancellor, shit as PM, don’t they?
    “Victory!” Yells the daily express, alongside photo of Hunt in Cage Fighter mode. In smaller print it’s victory for the paper being hailed as they single handedly saved the Triple Lock.

    Take out so far how “trap for Labour” and “highest tax burden since Second World War” are the two stand outs on the heat map.
    Times has one of those ridiculous Hunt in school photographs, otherwise is very supportive of book balancing budget.

    The Mirror predictably tries nothing other than smear all the blame over the Tories, when we know if Reeves gave same budget their blame would only be international situation and Putin.
    "If Reeves gave the same budget". Yes, but she didn't. She hasn't had her go yet. This is the culmination of 12 years of utterly incompetent, self-harming government that is a wafer from destroying the party of which I was once an enthusiastic member.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,469
    edited November 17
    You've Never Had It So Bad will stick

    The Tories have lost the next election and maybe the one after that. Pff
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,729
    Funeral day for Johnsonism, insofar as there ever was such a thing.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,398
    edited November 17
    I'm curious to know how all this blew up so suddenly?

    ....Six weeks ago everything seemed so normal. The Tories had got rid of Johnson because he was caught bending the rules one too many times....

    ....The replacements seemed ordinary bordering on the dull but at least an improvement in most peoples eyes.

    ......Then the Queen died and they made their choice and Truss took over and out of the blue we were facing the worst economic crisis since records began.

    It's as though someone opened the books and found the most heinous skulduggery had taken place.

    .......We'd been robbed and they'd got away with the lot.....

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 46,920
    glw said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    EPG said:

    But his pals tried already, and the strategy delivered a hundred-seat majority to venal clowns because that's how bad his pals were.
    Why bother hating the actual in-government Tories when as a true faithful lefty you’re much better off hating the slightly less ideologically pure members of your own side?

    The Labour equivalent of ERGers hating Theresa May.

    At least Alexei Sayle is quite funny, to be fair. His fellow travellers on the far left and right are generally humourless.
    I love Alexei Sayle's cameo in the film Gorky Park. Have to watch it again pretty soon, haven't seen it for ages.
    I watched that last weekend. Quite a good film, and also a good book.
    Scarily, "Ullo John got a new motor?" is now 40 years old.

    I saw him live in Brum about this time. Best line I remember from that show was "Anybody who uses the term "workshop" who isn't involved in light engineering is a c***."
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 3,982
    edited November 17
    TimS said:

    EPG said:

    But his pals tried already, and the strategy delivered a hundred-seat majority to venal clowns because that's how bad his pals were.
    Why bother hating the actual in-government Tories when as a true faithful lefty you’re much better off hating the slightly less ideologically pure members of your own side?

    The Labour equivalent of ERGers hating Theresa May.

    At least Alexei Sayle is quite funny, to be fair. His fellow travellers on the far left and right are generally humourless.
    That hatred is all consuming. The far left want Keir Starmer to fail in order to be able to say "I told you so". It matters not a jot to them that such failure would herald the longest continuous period of Conservative government in living memory. Posting that sort of thing on a day like today of all days just shows them up for what they are. The only saving grace is that they don't realise that they have become Keir Starmer's useful idiots. Every time he takes them on Labour's polling improves.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,729
    glw said:

    TimS said:

    Funny day today. Fairly sensible policies from Hunt, and a decent delivery, but it’s thrown into sharp focus the utter economic mess the country is in thanks to his predecessors. It also reminds us all of the essential emptiness of Osborne’s austerity. So I think the polling impact of today will be a small notch downwards.

    Definite feel today that whether you agree with the nuance of this or that finance policy, the adults are back in the room for the first time in years.

    There's a lot of mess from the frat party to tidy up.

    It was a gimmick free and broadly sensible announcement, obviously the circumstances are terrible and so nobody is all that happy with the result, but we could do with similar governing once things do improve. It's been a bloody long time since I heard a similar announcement, maybe the early years of Blair's government.
    Tbf only the older among us can remember budgets from the 1970s and early 1980z
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,874
    edited November 17
    Yes we know Alexei hates Sir Keir for selling out the true socialist ideals as you too think. The polls suggest otherwise however.

    Saw Sayle in Hereford once and he is a great comic though, even if miles from my politics
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,729

    dixiedean said:

    The Tories are an utter shambles.
    The largest tax cut in history followed by the largest tax rise ever.
    My arse.

    They have been, for sure.

    I actually think the current iteration is as sensible a form of Government as we could have right now. We spent an extraordinary amount of money on getting the bulk of our private sector through Covid. Now we have to be grown up about how that gets paid for. This was a grown up budget for bleak times.
    But with some of the wrong choices, still.
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,607
    Lab hold in Bolsover.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,248
    Roger said:

    I'm curious to know how all this blew up so suddenly?

    ....Six weeks ago everything seemed so normal. The Tories had got rid of Johnson because he was caught bending the rules one too many times....

    ....The replacements seemed ordinary bordering on the dull but at least an improvement in most peoples eyes.

    ......Then the Queen died and Truss took over and out of the blue we were facing the worst economic crisis since records began.

    It's as though someone opened the books and found the most heinous skulduggery had taken place.

    .......We'd been robbed and they'd got away with the lot.....

    I think it is simply that, for some reason, Johnson was permitted to lie without scrutiny. It was like noone expected him to tell the truth, so we all went along with the lie.

    When he was finally ousted (and not for lying) the new PM had no such extraordinary privilege, and the whole thing collapsed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,874
    edited November 17
    TimS said:

    EPG said:

    But his pals tried already, and the strategy delivered a hundred-seat majority to venal clowns because that's how bad his pals were.
    Why bother hating the actual in-government Tories when as a true faithful lefty you’re much better off hating the slightly less ideologically pure members of your own side?

    The Labour equivalent of ERGers hating Theresa May.

    At least Alexei Sayle is quite funny, to be fair. His fellow travellers on the far left and right are generally humourless.
    The Conservative hard right hated Cameron initially too, just like the Labour hard left now hates Starmer
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,229

    Kicking off in Ashfield, Notts:
    Ashfield District Council leader and five other councillors arrested
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-63664195

    Presumption of innocence and all that, but that is highly unusul to see.

    The leader came a creditable second to Lee Anderson in the 2019 GE.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,513
    Roger said:

    I'm curious to know how all this blew up so suddenly?

    ....Six weeks ago everything seemed so normal. The Tories had got rid of Johnson because he was caught bending the rules one too many times....

    ....The replacements seemed ordinary bordering on the dull but at least an improvement in most peoples eyes.

    ......Then the Queen died and they made their choice and Truss took over and out of the blue we were facing the worst economic crisis since records began.

    It's as though someone opened the books and found the most heinous skulduggery had taken place.

    .......We'd been robbed and they'd got away with the lot.....

    Brexit is a king of faecal pass the parcel and the music finally stopped somewhere between the invasion of Ukraine and the death of the Queen.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,229
    Roger said:

    I'm curious to know how all this blew up so suddenly?

    ....Six weeks ago everything seemed so normal. The Tories had got rid of Johnson because he was caught bending the rules one too many times....

    ....The replacements seemed ordinary bordering on the dull but at least an improvement in most peoples eyes.

    ......Then the Queen died and they made their choice and Truss took over and out of the blue we were facing the worst economic crisis since records began.

    It's as though someone opened the books and found the most heinous skulduggery had taken place.

    .......We'd been robbed and they'd got away with the lot.....

    More we were living the dream, and Truss shocked everyone awake.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,513
    Anyone who thinks we should be grateful that “the adults are back in the room” is a forelock tugging twat.

    Invariably they voted for Brexit, too.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 404
    edited November 17
    That's bad in the Heil. "Strivers" is Mailite for rentiers and for other kinds of petty bourgeois sc*m who are always moaning that it's the people in the middle who bear the brunt, and why don't they get any respect because they always show deference to the royal family and the army unlike the vermin in the downmarket parts of town and those who "aren't from here". When they say "strivers" they don't mean guys who wash cars for 12 hours a day. They mean white-skinned petty bourgeois who have to file VAT returns.

    It's awkward for the Tories that there aren't any EU elections any more in Britain where such suffering "strivers" can let off steam by voting UKIP.

    Then again the Heil always supports the Tories in general elections and there's no reason to think that's likely to change. (Compare with the Sun, which always supports the winner.)

    Hunt seems as batsh*t as Truss but a bit cleverer. Referencing Nigel Lawson is loony. It wasn't just the Big Bang and Singapore-Dubai on the Thames. There was also supposed to be "people's capitalism" across the country (using that exact phrase) with the shareowning proportion of the population rising to a Hong Kong-style level; and the Sunday Times which had previously sold the Laffer sh*t to justify the rich taking their money abroad was also promoting "profit sharing", where workers would get paid a big slice of their incomes in "profits" and they'd understand that when profitability fell they'd have to take a hit and they'd suck it all up - that was the idea. Didn't work. (Admittedly it wasn't tried, but employers as well as the trade unions thought it was posh boy wonk codswallop pushed by eggheads who didn't know much about the real world.) I won't be surprised if Hunt screws fiscal policy as much as Truss did, only on a different time scale. (If looks are anything to go by, he also looks as crazy as she is, if not crazier.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,229

    dixiedean said:

    The Tories are an utter shambles.
    The largest tax cut in history followed by the largest tax rise ever.
    My arse.

    They have been, for sure.

    I actually think the current iteration is as sensible a form of Government as we could have right now. We spent an extraordinary amount of money on getting the bulk of our private sector through Covid. Now we have to be grown up about how that gets paid for. This was a grown up budget for bleak times.
    Probably. Won't be rewarded for that, but better they steer a mostly sensible course (with the setting of a few bear traps, can't not be political a bit) for the country's sake.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,229

    Anyone who thinks we should be grateful that “the adults are back in the room” is a forelock tugging twat.

    Invariably they voted for Brexit, too.

    I don't see the connection. I'm glad they at least appear to be trying to be more sensible (even if plenty of policy choices will be disagreed with) - it doesn't mean I suddenly support the government or think people should vote for it, so where is the forelock tugging?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,513
    kle4 said:

    Kicking off in Ashfield, Notts:
    Ashfield District Council leader and five other councillors arrested
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-63664195

    Presumption of innocence and all that, but that is highly unusul to see.

    The leader came a creditable second to Lee Anderson in the 2019 GE.
    Dyspeptic euromedia obsessive @MattW is a fan, from memory.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093

    Anyone who thinks we should be grateful that “the adults are back in the room” is a forelock tugging twat.

    Invariably they voted for Brexit, too.

    Eh?
  • gabyhinsliff
    @gabyhinsliff
    ·
    4h
    i guess we're about to find out how low the Tory vote can go (used to be told the absolute floor was 20%, but wouldn't bet on it)

    ===

    Not sure I agree with this. I suspect many will say not a bad budget given the shit we are in.

    It used to be that 30% was considered bedrock, but Truss blasted it away and we are yet to discover where the new floor is.

    I suspect it is low twenties.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,513
    kle4 said:

    Anyone who thinks we should be grateful that “the adults are back in the room” is a forelock tugging twat.

    Invariably they voted for Brexit, too.

    I don't see the connection. I'm glad they at least appear to be trying to be more sensible (even if plenty of policy choices will be disagreed with) - it doesn't mean I suddenly support the government or think people should vote for it, so where is the forelock tugging?
    Because it’s essentially a form of self-delusion. This is not a new government; it’s Year 12 of the same one.

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,502
    Roger said:

    I'm curious to know how all this blew up so suddenly?

    ....Six weeks ago everything seemed so normal. The Tories had got rid of Johnson because he was caught bending the rules one too many times....

    ....The replacements seemed ordinary bordering on the dull but at least an improvement in most peoples eyes.

    ......Then the Queen died and they made their choice and Truss took over and out of the blue we were facing the worst economic crisis since records began.

    It's as though someone opened the books and found the most heinous skulduggery had taken place.

    .......We'd been robbed and they'd got away with the lot.....

    Spot on Roger. How did this suddenly blow up? If it’s simply the Tories were stupid or lying, then why didn’t the media or opposition parties explain the truth?

    So if it’s the right budget, not a ideological Tory wet budget as many in Tory circle thinking tonight, then yes, where did this budget come from? Where did these hideous conditions on tax, borrowing, struggling households & businesses, so little growth for us other countries over covid slump already, come from?

    Nothing from Boris or Sunak as PM and chancellor setting the ground for this was there? Nothing from Johnson’s long good bye government that the country was in this mess, nor any hint on the endless Tory campaign trail - Sunak said Truss promises would go too far but Sunak was still promising tax cuts and giveaways himself, not explaining need for this Autumn statement. Still no hint of all this budget gloom when Kwarteng first stood to deliver his budget, nor much reaction from the media it should be tax hikes and budget cuts instead, in the papers first summing up, in fact Kwarteng’s was hailed as exciting budget by Tory Press, Tory Party and by many on this blog.

    So where did the need for this budget come from?

    The truth is the need to tackle borrowing and raise tax to help creaking services through credit crunch was there all year. This crunch was always coming. The politicians either didn’t see it or were never honest about what would eventually be needed.

    But also how much of the media were switched on to the true state of UK and spoke up about what was needed? And the opposition parties too, how switched on were they?
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,607
    kle4 said:

    Kicking off in Ashfield, Notts:
    Ashfield District Council leader and five other councillors arrested
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-63664195

    Presumption of innocence and all that, but that is highly unusul to see.

    The leader came a creditable second to Lee Anderson in the 2019 GE.
    There is a long history of anti Zadrozny campaigns in Ashfield. This may be another example of that with increased bitterness.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 404
    edited November 17

    gabyhinsliff
    @gabyhinsliff
    ·
    4h
    i guess we're about to find out how low the Tory vote can go (used to be told the absolute floor was 20%, but wouldn't bet on it)

    ===

    Not sure I agree with this. I suspect many will say not a bad budget given the shit we are in.

    It used to be that 30% was considered bedrock, but Truss blasted it away and we are yet to discover where the new floor is.

    I suspect it is low twenties.
    There is no support level, and among those who say there is one it's those who set it at a round figure who are most foolish because whereas it's true in financial markets that 35 falling to 34 falling to...and no, the bears aren't going anywhere because too many people will buy if it gets close to 30... whereas it's true about "psychological barriers" in that context, i.e. they do exist, that's not true in voter-intention opinion polls.

    But the Tories will win the next election anyway, so the interest is in whether one should lay Keir Starmer now or wait until the odds on his taking over as PM after the next GE are even shorter.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,729

    Roger said:

    I'm curious to know how all this blew up so suddenly?

    ....Six weeks ago everything seemed so normal. The Tories had got rid of Johnson because he was caught bending the rules one too many times....

    ....The replacements seemed ordinary bordering on the dull but at least an improvement in most peoples eyes.

    ......Then the Queen died and they made their choice and Truss took over and out of the blue we were facing the worst economic crisis since records began.

    It's as though someone opened the books and found the most heinous skulduggery had taken place.

    .......We'd been robbed and they'd got away with the lot.....

    Spot on Roger. How did this suddenly blow up? If it’s simply the Tories were stupid or lying, then why didn’t the media or opposition parties explain the truth?

    So if it’s the right budget, not a ideological Tory wet budget as many in Tory circle thinking tonight, then yes, where did this budget come from? Where did these hideous conditions on tax, borrowing, struggling households & businesses, so little growth for us other countries over covid slump already, come from?

    Nothing from Boris or Sunak as PM and chancellor setting the ground for this was there? Nothing from Johnson’s long good bye government that the country was in this mess, nor any hint on the endless Tory campaign trail - Sunak said Truss promises would go too far but Sunak was still promising tax cuts and giveaways himself, not explaining need for this Autumn statement. Still no hint of all this budget gloom when Kwarteng first stood to deliver his budget, nor much reaction from the media it should be tax hikes and budget cuts instead, in the papers first summing up, in fact Kwarteng’s was hailed as exciting budget by Tory Press, Tory Party and by many on this blog.

    So where did the need for this budget come from?

    The truth is the need to tackle borrowing and raise tax to help creaking services through credit crunch was there all year. This crunch was always coming. The politicians either didn’t see it or were never honest about what would eventually be needed.

    But also how much of the media were switched on to the true state of UK and spoke up about what was needed? And the opposition parties too, how switched on were they?
    The truth unaided, at the wrong time, simply falls on stony ground.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,229
    edited November 17

    kle4 said:

    Anyone who thinks we should be grateful that “the adults are back in the room” is a forelock tugging twat.

    Invariably they voted for Brexit, too.

    I don't see the connection. I'm glad they at least appear to be trying to be more sensible (even if plenty of policy choices will be disagreed with) - it doesn't mean I suddenly support the government or think people should vote for it, so where is the forelock tugging?
    Because it’s essentially a form of self-delusion. This is not a new government; it’s Year 12 of the same one.

    Sounds like you are misinterpreting what people may mean by the phrase. The government is not new, in the sense it is a new party, sure, but it is very clearly a change in direction and personnel from the Truss ministry (at least in economic terms). And it's that, rather than the Boris ministry, that the change is being compared to.

    It's not self delusion to note the change, anymore than it would be delusion to note that the Starmer opposition is very different in tone and approach to to the Corbyn opposition. What? It's year 12 of the same opposition, right?

    Besides, which, your explanation still doesn't justify that 'forelock tugging' nonsense. Even if your premise is accepted it is a form of self-delusion, it isn't a delusion that necessitates supporting the government, so what deference is shown by it?

    Since when is self delusion a sign of deference?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,874

    Anyone who thinks we should be grateful that “the adults are back in the room” is a forelock tugging twat.

    Invariably they voted for Brexit, too.

    Hunt didn’t, he was a Remainer
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 19,930
    Was it just me or did Rachel Reeves sound more right-wing/Conservative than Jeremy Hunt?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,729
    edited November 17
    HYUFD said:

    Anyone who thinks we should be grateful that “the adults are back in the room” is a forelock tugging twat.

    Invariably they voted for Brexit, too.

    Hunt didn’t, he was a Remainer
    Like Truss, Johnson, Cameron, Major and Thatcher before him….

    Little Rishi is the only genuine leaver who has made the top table.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,229
    HYUFD said:

    Anyone who thinks we should be grateful that “the adults are back in the room” is a forelock tugging twat.

    Invariably they voted for Brexit, too.

    Hunt didn’t, he was a Remainer
    So did Sunak.

    Not really of course, but being a remainer traitor and all I bet a lot of people think he did.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,304


    German gas usage down 33% yoy. Households -35%, industry -31%
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    Catching up with Reeves destruction of the government in her response. Wow.

    It is a 1990s Cook/Brown level of opposition response.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,513
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Anyone who thinks we should be grateful that “the adults are back in the room” is a forelock tugging twat.

    Invariably they voted for Brexit, too.

    I don't see the connection. I'm glad they at least appear to be trying to be more sensible (even if plenty of policy choices will be disagreed with) - it doesn't mean I suddenly support the government or think people should vote for it, so where is the forelock tugging?
    Because it’s essentially a form of self-delusion. This is not a new government; it’s Year 12 of the same one.

    Sounds like you are misinterpreting what people may mean by the phrase. The government is not new, in the sense it is a new party, sure, but it is very clearly a change in direction and personnel from the Truss ministry (at least in economic terms). And it's that, rather than the Boris ministry, that the change is being compared to.

    It's not self delusion to note the change, anymore than it would be delusion to note that the Starmer opposition is very different in tone and approach to to the Corbyn opposition. What? It's year 12 of the same opposition, right?

    Besides, which, your explanation still doesn't justify that 'forelock tugging' nonsense. Even if your premise is accepted it is a form of self-delusion, it isn't a delusion that necessitates supporting the government, so what deference is shown by it?
    Because there is an implicit suggestion that things are okay now because the good chaps are back in charge.

    No, these are the same chaps that raped your pool boy and stole your wife’s lingerie. That they are a break from Truss is of course true but that in itself ain’t all that and a bag of potato chips.
  • Tiny Labour majority is the best outcome for them.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,304
    edited November 17
    carnforth said:



    German gas usage down 33% yoy. Households -35%, industry -31%

    Long read on German deinstrialization... or not?

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-industry-europe-energy-prices-basf/amp/
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,513
    Andy_JS said:

    Was it just me or did Rachel Reeves sound more right-wing/Conservative than Jeremy Hunt?

    I dismissed her last night, but was seriously impressed today.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,502

    kle4 said:

    Anyone who thinks we should be grateful that “the adults are back in the room” is a forelock tugging twat.

    Invariably they voted for Brexit, too.

    I don't see the connection. I'm glad they at least appear to be trying to be more sensible (even if plenty of policy choices will be disagreed with) - it doesn't mean I suddenly support the government or think people should vote for it, so where is the forelock tugging?
    Because it’s essentially a form of self-delusion. This is not a new government; it’s Year 12 of the same one.

    That’s not entirely true. It started with two parties in power, both blaming the mess they inherited, when it went down to one in power the Tory’s blamed the libdems for anything rubbish, the May government were clearly different from the blukip tribe who pulled her down just two years in, and then Boris blamed both Tory PMs and their governments who proceeded him for any inherited rubbish like social care unreformed, power station not built, in bed with the Chinese etc. And then Truss blamed all three of them and wanted to sail the ship in quite the opposite direction.

    It’s governments with Tories in it, I’ll concede you that, but it’s hardly a continuation of the same thing. That’s the nub of it: will the real Tory Party please let us know who you are and what you believe in, and lock anything contrary to that away in the attack. Please.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,363
    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    EPG said:

    But his pals tried already, and the strategy delivered a hundred-seat majority to venal clowns because that's how bad his pals were.
    Why bother hating the actual in-government Tories when as a true faithful lefty you’re much better off hating the slightly less ideologically pure members of your own side?

    The Labour equivalent of ERGers hating Theresa May.

    At least Alexei Sayle is quite funny, to be fair. His fellow travellers on the far left and right are generally humourless.
    I love Alexei Sayle's cameo in the film Gorky Park. Have to watch it again pretty soon, haven't seen it for ages.
    I loved him in the third Indiana Jones movie.
  • The real Tory party died in 2016. They must now go into opposition and find themselves again.
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,607
    Huge Labour hold in Rhondda.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 3,982

    gabyhinsliff
    @gabyhinsliff
    ·
    4h
    i guess we're about to find out how low the Tory vote can go (used to be told the absolute floor was 20%, but wouldn't bet on it)

    ===

    Not sure I agree with this. I suspect many will say not a bad budget given the shit we are in.

    It used to be that 30% was considered bedrock, but Truss blasted it away and we are yet to discover where the new floor is.

    I suspect it is low twenties.
    In political terms it'll be ironic if, after yet another PM has been ousted as part of the Conservative Party's attempts to turn their fortunes around, Sunak and Hunt end up after today staring down the barrel of the same 30 point polling deficits that were there when they took over.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,502
    IanB2 said:

    Roger said:

    I'm curious to know how all this blew up so suddenly?

    ....Six weeks ago everything seemed so normal. The Tories had got rid of Johnson because he was caught bending the rules one too many times....

    ....The replacements seemed ordinary bordering on the dull but at least an improvement in most peoples eyes.

    ......Then the Queen died and they made their choice and Truss took over and out of the blue we were facing the worst economic crisis since records began.

    It's as though someone opened the books and found the most heinous skulduggery had taken place.

    .......We'd been robbed and they'd got away with the lot.....

    Spot on Roger. How did this suddenly blow up? If it’s simply the Tories were stupid or lying, then why didn’t the media or opposition parties explain the truth?

    So if it’s the right budget, not a ideological Tory wet budget as many in Tory circle thinking tonight, then yes, where did this budget come from? Where did these hideous conditions on tax, borrowing, struggling households & businesses, so little growth for us other countries over covid slump already, come from?

    Nothing from Boris or Sunak as PM and chancellor setting the ground for this was there? Nothing from Johnson’s long good bye government that the country was in this mess, nor any hint on the endless Tory campaign trail - Sunak said Truss promises would go too far but Sunak was still promising tax cuts and giveaways himself, not explaining need for this Autumn statement. Still no hint of all this budget gloom when Kwarteng first stood to deliver his budget, nor much reaction from the media it should be tax hikes and budget cuts instead, in the papers first summing up, in fact Kwarteng’s was hailed as exciting budget by Tory Press, Tory Party and by many on this blog.

    So where did the need for this budget come from?

    The truth is the need to tackle borrowing and raise tax to help creaking services through credit crunch was there all year. This crunch was always coming. The politicians either didn’t see it or were never honest about what would eventually be needed.

    But also how much of the media were switched on to the true state of UK and spoke up about what was needed? And the opposition parties too, how switched on were they?
    The truth unaided, at the wrong time, simply falls on stony ground.
    But there was no message to hear, let alone go deep down.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,502
    slade said:

    Huge Labour hold in Rhondda.

    When is a hold a huge hold? 🤭
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 404
    edited November 17
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anyone who thinks we should be grateful that “the adults are back in the room” is a forelock tugging twat.

    Invariably they voted for Brexit, too.

    Hunt didn’t, he was a Remainer
    Like Truss, Johnson, Cameron, Major and Thatcher before him….

    Little Rishi is the only genuine leaver who has made the top table.
    Thatcher opposed Brexit in the 1975 referendum, but I've always thought that had she been alive and in sufficiently good health in 2016 she would have supported Leave. But we shall never know.

    "Remainer" functions as a term of such contempt. Cf. "regicide"? Some would like to brand us and deprive us of our voting rights. Never mind that the country can't remain in what it's already left, although it can REJOIN and in fact those of us who want to rejoin are a majority.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093

    slade said:

    Huge Labour hold in Rhondda.

    When is a hold a huge hold? 🤭
    Weighing not counting?
  • gabyhinsliff
    @gabyhinsliff
    ·
    4h
    i guess we're about to find out how low the Tory vote can go (used to be told the absolute floor was 20%, but wouldn't bet on it)

    ===

    Not sure I agree with this. I suspect many will say not a bad budget given the shit we are in.

    It used to be that 30% was considered bedrock, but Truss blasted it away and we are yet to discover where the new floor is.

    I suspect it is low twenties.
    In political terms it'll be ironic if, after yet another PM has been ousted as part of the Conservative Party's attempts to turn their fortunes around, Sunak and Hunt end up after today staring down the barrel of the same 30 point polling deficits that were there when they took over.
    They will avoid an Extinction Event. Given where the Party was heading before they took over, that can be considered a decent result.
  • Labour can now win an election. Because they are not the Tories.

    We are now in 2010 but in reverse.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,363
    slade said:

    kle4 said:

    Kicking off in Ashfield, Notts:
    Ashfield District Council leader and five other councillors arrested
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-63664195

    Presumption of innocence and all that, but that is highly unusul to see.

    The leader came a creditable second to Lee Anderson in the 2019 GE.
    There is a long history of anti Zadrozny campaigns in Ashfield. This may be another example of that with increased bitterness.
    Brandy Zadrozny?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandy_Zadrozny?wprov=sfla1
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    Musk email went down well I see.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,398

    Roger said:

    I'm curious to know how all this blew up so suddenly?

    ....Six weeks ago everything seemed so normal. The Tories had got rid of Johnson because he was caught bending the rules one too many times....

    ....The replacements seemed ordinary bordering on the dull but at least an improvement in most peoples eyes.

    ......Then the Queen died and they made their choice and Truss took over and out of the blue we were facing the worst economic crisis since records began.

    It's as though someone opened the books and found the most heinous skulduggery had taken place.

    .......We'd been robbed and they'd got away with the lot.....

    Brexit is a king of faecal pass the parcel and the music finally stopped somewhere between the invasion of Ukraine and the death of the Queen.
    But why wasn't there a single commentator or politician mentioning the B word? It wasn't as though they were pushed for time. The only person not invited or not willing to proffer an opinion during the hours of dross was Brenda from Bristol
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,502
    HYUFD said:

    Quite clearly Hunt has left the main unpopular spending and austerity decisions to tackle the deficit for the likely Starmer government to deal with after the next general election. He also froze thresholds and lowered the threshold for additional rate income tax but didn't really increase tax rates, again he left it to Starmer and Reeves to do that.

    A bit like Liam Byrnes 'there is no money left' note for Osborne in 2010 there will be no golden economic legacy from this Tory government as Major and Clarke left for Blair and Brown in 1997

    You sound positively buoyed by this scorched earth approach to governing a country properly.

    But how many Conservative MPs do Sunak and Hunt bequeath their successors
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    Alistair said:

    Musk email went down well I see.

    What's he done now?
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,607

    slade said:

    Huge Labour hold in Rhondda.

    When is a hold a huge hold? 🤭
    When you get 80% of the vote.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,874
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anyone who thinks we should be grateful that “the adults are back in the room” is a forelock tugging twat.

    Invariably they voted for Brexit, too.

    Hunt didn’t, he was a Remainer
    Like Truss, Johnson, Cameron, Major and Thatcher before him….

    Little Rishi is the only genuine leaver who has made the top table.
    Johnson backed Leave and Thatcher was a serious Eurosceptic from Bruges speech on
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,363
    carnforth said:



    German gas usage down 33% yoy. Households -35%, industry -31%

    Warm weather has certainly helped.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,874

    HYUFD said:

    Quite clearly Hunt has left the main unpopular spending and austerity decisions to tackle the deficit for the likely Starmer government to deal with after the next general election. He also froze thresholds and lowered the threshold for additional rate income tax but didn't really increase tax rates, again he left it to Starmer and Reeves to do that.

    A bit like Liam Byrnes 'there is no money left' note for Osborne in 2010 there will be no golden economic legacy from this Tory government as Major and Clarke left for Blair and Brown in 1997

    You sound positively buoyed by this scorched earth approach to governing a country properly.

    But how many Conservative MPs do Sunak and Hunt bequeath their successors
    Still about the same as in 1997 but Labour face a more 1974 economic outlook than 1997
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 19,930
    A statement of very likely fact is condemned.

    "Charlize Theron condemned for saying Afrikaans is dying language"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-63642042
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,502

    slade said:

    Huge Labour hold in Rhondda.

    When is a hold a huge hold? 🤭
    Weighing not counting?
    Or like a big ship, they filled huge hold full of snails?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    Christopher Hope📝
    @christopherhope
    ·
    1h
    Tomorrow's front pages look like the worst I have ever seen for the Conservative party.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,874
    edited November 17
    According to today's Popbitch Hunt was so busy preparing for today he was observed at the urinals with both thumbs on his phone while still peeing!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,513
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I'm curious to know how all this blew up so suddenly?

    ....Six weeks ago everything seemed so normal. The Tories had got rid of Johnson because he was caught bending the rules one too many times....

    ....The replacements seemed ordinary bordering on the dull but at least an improvement in most peoples eyes.

    ......Then the Queen died and they made their choice and Truss took over and out of the blue we were facing the worst economic crisis since records began.

    It's as though someone opened the books and found the most heinous skulduggery had taken place.

    .......We'd been robbed and they'd got away with the lot.....

    Brexit is a king of faecal pass the parcel and the music finally stopped somewhere between the invasion of Ukraine and the death of the Queen.
    But why wasn't there a single commentator or politician mentioning the B word? It wasn't as though they were pushed for time. The only person not invited or not willing to proffer an opinion during the hours of dross was Brenda from Bristol
    There has been, at least in most of the BBC and certainly the right wing press (ie the majority of it) an omertà on Brexit.

    That’s also breaking, now that remorse is nearly 2:1.

  • sladeslade Posts: 1,607
    Lab gain in Blackpool.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,502
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Quite clearly Hunt has left the main unpopular spending and austerity decisions to tackle the deficit for the likely Starmer government to deal with after the next general election. He also froze thresholds and lowered the threshold for additional rate income tax but didn't really increase tax rates, again he left it to Starmer and Reeves to do that.

    A bit like Liam Byrnes 'there is no money left' note for Osborne in 2010 there will be no golden economic legacy from this Tory government as Major and Clarke left for Blair and Brown in 1997

    You sound positively buoyed by this scorched earth approach to governing a country properly.

    But how many Conservative MPs do Sunak and Hunt bequeath their successors
    Still about the same as in 1997 but Labour face a more 1974 economic outlook than 1997
    Not sure you are right on either count.

    Do you think Labour get all the blame from day 1? Probably a thousand days in before some voters start to say you can’t blame it all on Tories now, we want some delivery.

    The sun of post recession rebound might be out, green shoots and all that mid way through their stint, which they get all the credit for, in run down to their re-election attempt

    You haven’t thought this through have you?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,513
    OBR also predicting a 10% drop in house prices through 2024 which might be a good thing but will hardly be welcomed by Tory voters.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,502
    I’m also thinking, with so many deferred cuts, so many tax policies that might not yield enough in the end, have they really done enough to satisfy the markets…
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