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These numbers need to be substantially better for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited October 9 in General
imageThese numbers need to be substantially better for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

We will have to wait until after the Commons return next week before we can make an assessment of how much trouble LizY is in.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    I just think SKS is going to crucify her at PMQ time after time.
  • 2nd like the Lib Dems soon
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,451
    3rd like charles
  • Rough Scottish Seat Prediction:
    SNP - 49 (+1)
    Labour - 7 (+6)
    Lib Dems - 3 (-1)
    Tories lose all 6 Scottish Seats.

    Labour is coming home
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    What is bewildering is that Tory members are so out of touch with actual tory voters.

    Perhaps they are so old they don't get out much and mix with their own base?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,148
    Truss will hope she gets a conference bounce, otherwise she will have the shortest premiership since Douglas Home
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    What is bewildering is that Tory members are so out of touch with actual tory voters.

    Perhaps they are so old they don't get out much and mix with their own base?

    HYUFD is about 17 so it can't be that.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,096

    Rough Scottish Seat Prediction:
    SNP - 49 (+1)
    Labour - 7 (+6)
    Lib Dems - 3 (-1)
    Tories lose all 6 Scottish Seats.

    Labour is coming home

    Not exactly fully seated home, in the sense of a piece of carpentry. Rather a large gap still.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Truss is the worst public speaker in a leading role in my entire adult life frankly.

    She comes across as hopelessly dire on BBC headline news.

    Will that matter?

    I think it will.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,148

    What is bewildering is that Tory members are so out of touch with actual tory voters.

    Perhaps they are so old they don't get out much and mix with their own base?

    Are they? Most Tory voters like Tory members preferred Truss to Sunak but Boris to both
  • FPT

    Do any PBers still support Truss?

    🙋‍♂️

    I would 100% rather a tax cutting PM who is prepared to stand up to NIMBYs, even if they lose the next election, than a tax rising NIMBY pandering one.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,042
    HYUFD said:

    Truss will hope she gets a conference bounce, otherwise she will have the shortest premiership since Douglas Home

    On what basis is she going to get a bounce??? The more they see her, the more they find to dislike.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Truss comes across as absolutely desperate.

    The "wrong, wrong, wrong" line is so badly timed and delivered that it is embarrassing.

    What the f were the membership thinking?



  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,226
    ...
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157
    HYUFD said:

    Truss will hope she gets a conference bounce, otherwise she will have the shortest premiership since Douglas Home

    Nah. The dead cat's not for bouncing.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    They deleted the "shite" entry presumably.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,304
    @carnyx @Eabhal FPT

    Been reading more about the 1950s Stone of Destiny heist/repatriation- what an extraordinary story. Going to try to dig out the Robert Carlyle film.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,226
    Truss has a narrow path to survival. I doubt she will take it, as it cuts across everything she believes is true about politics. She must abandon the course she is on because, with the country in this mood, it leads to electoral oblivion... https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e9b7c12-44e1-11ed-8885-043c27446b97?shareToken=75553a13cfdb8a982f9fa1a32f6b2384
  • Truss comes across as absolutely desperate.

    The "wrong, wrong, wrong" line is so badly timed and delivered that it is embarrassing.

    What the f were the membership thinking?



    That Truss had the right policies and intentions, unlike her NI rising alternative?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,697

    Truss is the worst public speaker in a leading role in my entire adult life frankly.

    She comes across as hopelessly dire on BBC headline news.

    Will that matter?

    I think it will.

    Agree. People complained about Boris and the bumbling but he was engaging and had good timing. Even May could chuck a bit of energy into her speeches.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    FPT

    Do any PBers still support Truss?

    🙋‍♂️

    I would 100% rather a tax cutting PM who is prepared to stand up to NIMBYs, even if they lose the next election, than a tax rising NIMBY pandering one.
    Lizzie "no solar panels in greeeeen fieeeeelds" Truss stand up to NIMBYs?

    Vous avez une girafe.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,096
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If you think that the God bit is so important - then I can't help remembering what happened when Charles I, II and III(A) pushed that line of argument about divine right.

    Seriously, it's a crass time in terms of established holidays. And we shouldn't be giging any mor ebank holidays. The country has to earn its living ((c) Cosnervative Party).
    Well it led in Charles 1st case to the English civil war where you Scots ultimately ended up allied with him and were crushed by Cromwell and his new model army.

    We then had the restoration of Charles II who was a popular monarch and ruled until his dying day. However Charles III, II and I were all anointed by God as the coronation will still make clear even if he is now a constitutional monarch.

    Saturday for coronation day means I is not a bank holiday day either is it
    If you think Charles II was popular, I wonder where you studied history. And God must have got confused about Charles III(A) as he inherited his divine right from his dad James VII and II, according to your theory.

    Anointing is not relevant as kings become kings instantly.
    Charles II certainly was popular, there was not a single revolt of any significance in his reign.

    God divinely ordained that William III would succeed James II and the Jacobite rebellions would be crushed. There never was a Charles III until this one, only a Pretender. Kings may become King on the death of the previous monarch but they are not formally anointed by God until the coronation
    You see, you were obviously off with glandular fever when Charles II came up in the course. That is simply not true. There was ongoing warfare in Scotland thanks to the Crown's policy, for a start.

    No there wasn't, Scots even fought with Prince Charles against Cromwell.

    There was no war in Charles II reign with the Scots, only the Dutch
    Carnyx now misleading about my posts
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If you think that the God bit is so important - then I can't help remembering what happened when Charles I, II and III(A) pushed that line of argument about divine right.

    Seriously, it's a crass time in terms of established holidays. And we shouldn't be giging any mor ebank holidays. The country has to earn its living ((c) Cosnervative Party).
    Well it led in Charles 1st case to the English civil war where you Scots ultimately ended up allied with him and were crushed by Cromwell and his new model army.

    We then had the restoration of Charles II who was a popular monarch and ruled until his dying day. However Charles III, II and I were all anointed by God as the coronation will still make clear even if he is now a constitutional monarch.

    Saturday for coronation day means I is not a bank holiday day either is it
    If you think Charles II was popular, I wonder where you studied history. And God must have got confused about Charles III(A) as he inherited his divine right from his dad James VII and II, according to your theory.

    Anointing is not relevant as kings become kings instantly.
    Charles II certainly was popular, there was not a single revolt of any significance in his reign.

    God divinely ordained that William III would succeed James II and the Jacobite rebellions would be crushed. There never was a Charles III until this one, only a Pretender. Kings may become King on the death of the previous monarch but they are not formally anointed by God until the coronation
    You see, you were obviously off with glandular fever when Charles II came up in the course. That is simply not true. There was ongoing warfare in Scotland thanks to the Crown's policy, for a start.

    No there wasn't, Scots even fought with Prince Charles against Cromwell.

    There was no war in Charles II reign with the Scots, only the Dutch
    Carnyx now misleading about my posts
    No, I'm not. You said

    "There was no war in Charles II reign with the Dutch, only the Scots." See my post of 9.36 pm

    You've been going back and editing your posts ... see youts of 9.33, edited at 9.38 after I pointed out your crass error.

    FPT as HYUFD is lying when he accuses me of fibbing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,096

    @carnyx @Eabhal FPT

    Been reading more about the 1950s Stone of Destiny heist/repatriation- what an extraordinary story. Going to try to dig out the Robert Carlyle film.

    Hamilton's book is fun, as I recall.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,454
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If you think that the God bit is so important - then I can't help remembering what happened when Charles I, II and III(A) pushed that line of argument about divine right.

    Seriously, it's a crass time in terms of established holidays. And we shouldn't be giging any mor ebank holidays. The country has to earn its living ((c) Cosnervative Party).
    Well it led in Charles 1st case to the English civil war where you Scots ultimately ended up allied with him and were crushed by Cromwell and his new model army.

    We then had the restoration of Charles II who was a popular monarch and ruled until his dying day. However Charles III, II and I were all anointed by God as the coronation will still make clear even if he is now a constitutional monarch.

    Saturday for coronation day means I is not a bank holiday day either is it
    If you think Charles II was popular, I wonder where you studied history. And God must have got confused about Charles III(A) as he inherited his divine right from his dad James VII and II, according to your theory.

    Anointing is not relevant as kings become kings instantly.
    Charles II certainly was popular, there was not a single revolt of any significance in his reign.

    God divinely ordained that William III would succeed James II and the Jacobite rebellions would be crushed. There never was a Charles III until this one, only a Pretender. Kings may become King on the death of the previous monarch but they are not formally anointed by God until the coronation
    Not a single revolt of any significance

    That's quite a low bar, surely
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,697

    @carnyx @Eabhal FPT

    Been reading more about the 1950s Stone of Destiny heist/repatriation- what an extraordinary story. Going to try to dig out the Robert Carlyle film.

    Have ordered the Ian Hamilton book - I don't know much about it other than what's online.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    dixiedean said:

    Truss is the worst public speaker in a leading role in my entire adult life frankly.

    She comes across as hopelessly dire on BBC headline news.

    Will that matter?

    I think it will.

    She reminds me of one of those candidates on The Apprentice who bang on about being able to sell anything, then do their big "pitch" and are totally incoherent and unable to answer even the simplest question in a way that would embarrass a trainee Primary School teacher.
    Spot on.

    Chapeau.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,148
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If you think that the God bit is so important - then I can't help remembering what happened when Charles I, II and III(A) pushed that line of argument about divine right.

    Seriously, it's a crass time in terms of established holidays. And we shouldn't be giging any mor ebank holidays. The country has to earn its living ((c) Cosnervative Party).
    Well it led in Charles 1st case to the English civil war where you Scots ultimately ended up allied with him and were crushed by Cromwell and his new model army.

    We then had the restoration of Charles II who was a popular monarch and ruled until his dying day. However Charles III, II and I were all anointed by God as the coronation will still make clear even if he is now a constitutional monarch.

    Saturday for coronation day means I is not a bank holiday day either is it
    If you think Charles II was popular, I wonder where you studied history. And God must have got confused about Charles III(A) as he inherited his divine right from his dad James VII and II, according to your theory.

    Anointing is not relevant as kings become kings instantly.
    Charles II certainly was popular, there was not a single revolt of any significance in his reign.

    God divinely ordained that William III would succeed James II and the Jacobite rebellions would be crushed. There never was a Charles III until this one, only a Pretender. Kings may become King on the death of the previous monarch but they are not formally anointed by God until the coronation
    You see, you were obviously off with glandular fever when Charles II came up in the course. That is simply not true. There was ongoing warfare in Scotland thanks to the Crown's policy, for a start.

    No there wasn't, Scots even fought with Prince Charles against Cromwell.

    There was no war in Charles II reign with the Scots, only the Dutch
    Carnyx now misleading about my posts
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If you think that the God bit is so important - then I can't help remembering what happened when Charles I, II and III(A) pushed that line of argument about divine right.

    Seriously, it's a crass time in terms of established holidays. And we shouldn't be giging any mor ebank holidays. The country has to earn its living ((c) Cosnervative Party).
    Well it led in Charles 1st case to the English civil war where you Scots ultimately ended up allied with him and were crushed by Cromwell and his new model army.

    We then had the restoration of Charles II who was a popular monarch and ruled until his dying day. However Charles III, II and I were all anointed by God as the coronation will still make clear even if he is now a constitutional monarch.

    Saturday for coronation day means I is not a bank holiday day either is it
    If you think Charles II was popular, I wonder where you studied history. And God must have got confused about Charles III(A) as he inherited his divine right from his dad James VII and II, according to your theory.

    Anointing is not relevant as kings become kings instantly.
    Charles II certainly was popular, there was not a single revolt of any significance in his reign.

    God divinely ordained that William III would succeed James II and the Jacobite rebellions would be crushed. There never was a Charles III until this one, only a Pretender. Kings may become King on the death of the previous monarch but they are not formally anointed by God until the coronation
    You see, you were obviously off with glandular fever when Charles II came up in the course. That is simply not true. There was ongoing warfare in Scotland thanks to the Crown's policy, for a start.

    No there wasn't, Scots even fought with Prince Charles against Cromwell.

    There was no war in Charles II reign with the Scots, only the Dutch
    Carnyx now misleading about my posts
    No, I'm not. You said

    "There was no war in Charles II reign with the Dutch, only the Scots." See my post of 9.36 pm

    You've been going back and editing your posts ... see youts of 9.33, edited at 9.38 after I pointed out your crass error.

    FPT as HYUFD is lying when he accuses me of fibbing.
    I made a writing error in a quick post, quickly corrected. Not a historical error as the post shows. So stop lying
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,552
    HYUFD said:

    Truss will hope she gets a conference bounce, otherwise she will have the shortest premiership since Douglas Home

    I think she’ll get some bounce coupled with the initial anger over the market drama dissipating . I don’t see anything like those 20+ leads again but expect Labour to still be well clear.

    I think we’re into a holding pattern now until the fiscal plan is announced .
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,096
    edited October 5
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If you think that the God bit is so important - then I can't help remembering what happened when Charles I, II and III(A) pushed that line of argument about divine right.

    Seriously, it's a crass time in terms of established holidays. And we shouldn't be giging any mor ebank holidays. The country has to earn its living ((c) Cosnervative Party).
    Well it led in Charles 1st case to the English civil war where you Scots ultimately ended up allied with him and were crushed by Cromwell and his new model army.

    We then had the restoration of Charles II who was a popular monarch and ruled until his dying day. However Charles III, II and I were all anointed by God as the coronation will still make clear even if he is now a constitutional monarch.

    Saturday for coronation day means I is not a bank holiday day either is it
    If you think Charles II was popular, I wonder where you studied history. And God must have got confused about Charles III(A) as he inherited his divine right from his dad James VII and II, according to your theory.

    Anointing is not relevant as kings become kings instantly.
    Charles II certainly was popular, there was not a single revolt of any significance in his reign.

    God divinely ordained that William III would succeed James II and the Jacobite rebellions would be crushed. There never was a Charles III until this one, only a Pretender. Kings may become King on the death of the previous monarch but they are not formally anointed by God until the coronation
    Not a single revolt of any significance

    That's quite a low bar, surely
    Quite. MIlitary occupation of much of Scotland and recurrent battles and assassinations. Don't know about E&W. But going beyond Mr Kwarteng wasn't popular at the time.

    Edit: in any case, 'of any significance' is weasel wording. The occupation had enormous political impact, and helped screw things up for the Stuarts for good.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,148
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well she is at least seen as rich, which might be a positive I suppose
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Eabhal said:

    Truss is the worst public speaker in a leading role in my entire adult life frankly.

    She comes across as hopelessly dire on BBC headline news.

    Will that matter?

    I think it will.

    Agree. People complained about Boris and the bumbling but he was engaging and had good timing. Even May could chuck a bit of energy into her speeches.
    She seems not to be able to cope with the auto-cue.

    Maybe she should try a Cameron and speak without one?

    Just riff from memory.

  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157

    Desperately sad. If these conscripts make it to the front the Ukr army will simply wipe them out or if they are lucky take them prisoner.

    Has there ever been a more self-destructive, self-inflicted disaster war than Putin's? Ethopia?

    Christo Grozev
    @christogrozev
    ·
    51m
    Jesus, the mobilization goes worse than the cliche about the terrible mobilization.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1577752174137954306

    No sympathy for the Russians. None. As the Ukrainian Government and many Ukrainian commentators have pointed out, most Russians either don't care about Putin's war or actively support it.

    However, if enough Russian soldiers are shipped home in black bags, or fed into mobile crematoria, or simply abandoned in the field for the Ukrainians to recover and dispose of, then it might eventually dawn on the Russian people that the war isn't a very good idea. I mean, they still won't think they've done anything wrong, but there might at least be a chance of them putting a few bullets in their dictator and throwing in the towel - before half the military age men in Russia either get converted into sunflower fertiliser or emigrate to Turkey.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,096
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If you think that the God bit is so important - then I can't help remembering what happened when Charles I, II and III(A) pushed that line of argument about divine right.

    Seriously, it's a crass time in terms of established holidays. And we shouldn't be giging any mor ebank holidays. The country has to earn its living ((c) Cosnervative Party).
    Well it led in Charles 1st case to the English civil war where you Scots ultimately ended up allied with him and were crushed by Cromwell and his new model army.

    We then had the restoration of Charles II who was a popular monarch and ruled until his dying day. However Charles III, II and I were all anointed by God as the coronation will still make clear even if he is now a constitutional monarch.

    Saturday for coronation day means I is not a bank holiday day either is it
    If you think Charles II was popular, I wonder where you studied history. And God must have got confused about Charles III(A) as he inherited his divine right from his dad James VII and II, according to your theory.

    Anointing is not relevant as kings become kings instantly.
    Charles II certainly was popular, there was not a single revolt of any significance in his reign.

    God divinely ordained that William III would succeed James II and the Jacobite rebellions would be crushed. There never was a Charles III until this one, only a Pretender. Kings may become King on the death of the previous monarch but they are not formally anointed by God until the coronation
    You see, you were obviously off with glandular fever when Charles II came up in the course. That is simply not true. There was ongoing warfare in Scotland thanks to the Crown's policy, for a start.

    No there wasn't, Scots even fought with Prince Charles against Cromwell.

    There was no war in Charles II reign with the Scots, only the Dutch
    Carnyx now misleading about my posts
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If you think that the God bit is so important - then I can't help remembering what happened when Charles I, II and III(A) pushed that line of argument about divine right.

    Seriously, it's a crass time in terms of established holidays. And we shouldn't be giging any mor ebank holidays. The country has to earn its living ((c) Cosnervative Party).
    Well it led in Charles 1st case to the English civil war where you Scots ultimately ended up allied with him and were crushed by Cromwell and his new model army.

    We then had the restoration of Charles II who was a popular monarch and ruled until his dying day. However Charles III, II and I were all anointed by God as the coronation will still make clear even if he is now a constitutional monarch.

    Saturday for coronation day means I is not a bank holiday day either is it
    If you think Charles II was popular, I wonder where you studied history. And God must have got confused about Charles III(A) as he inherited his divine right from his dad James VII and II, according to your theory.

    Anointing is not relevant as kings become kings instantly.
    Charles II certainly was popular, there was not a single revolt of any significance in his reign.

    God divinely ordained that William III would succeed James II and the Jacobite rebellions would be crushed. There never was a Charles III until this one, only a Pretender. Kings may become King on the death of the previous monarch but they are not formally anointed by God until the coronation
    You see, you were obviously off with glandular fever when Charles II came up in the course. That is simply not true. There was ongoing warfare in Scotland thanks to the Crown's policy, for a start.

    No there wasn't, Scots even fought with Prince Charles against Cromwell.

    There was no war in Charles II reign with the Scots, only the Dutch
    Carnyx now misleading about my posts
    No, I'm not. You said

    "There was no war in Charles II reign with the Dutch, only the Scots." See my post of 9.36 pm

    You've been going back and editing your posts ... see youts of 9.33, edited at 9.38 after I pointed out your crass error.

    FPT as HYUFD is lying when he accuses me of fibbing.
    I made a writing error in a quick post, quickly corrected. Not a historical error as the post shows. So stop lying
    I'm not a mind-reader. I do you the honour of believing you mean what you write.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103

    HYUFD said:

    Truss will hope she gets a conference bounce, otherwise she will have the shortest premiership since Douglas Home

    On what basis is she going to get a bounce??? The more they see her, the more they find to dislike.
    Came across as hopelessly and utterly out of her depth on BBC News at 10 to me.

    "It.Is.A.Disgrace" was not a one off. This is how she presents.

  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well she is at least seen as rich, which might be a positive I suppose
    I assume that's "rich," as in, "only cares about the." Which probably isn't a net positive electorally.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157
    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT

    Do any PBers still support Truss?

    🙋‍♂️

    I would 100% rather a tax cutting PM who is prepared to stand up to NIMBYs, even if they lose the next election, than a tax rising NIMBY pandering one.
    Lizzie "no solar panels in greeeeen fieeeeelds" Truss stand up to NIMBYs?

    Vous avez une girafe.
    In would say that the chances of her mooted relaxation of onshore wind farm development surviving contact with the first Tory MP to start a NIMBY campaign against one are approximately zero, but she probably won't last long enough in office for us to find out.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,644

    FPT

    Do any PBers still support Truss?

    🙋‍♂️

    I would 100% rather a tax cutting PM who is prepared to stand up to NIMBYs, even if they lose the next election, than a tax rising NIMBY pandering one.
    So that's Barty and Luckyguy!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,148
    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If you think that the God bit is so important - then I can't help remembering what happened when Charles I, II and III(A) pushed that line of argument about divine right.

    Seriously, it's a crass time in terms of established holidays. And we shouldn't be giging any mor ebank holidays. The country has to earn its living ((c) Cosnervative Party).
    Well it led in Charles 1st case to the English civil war where you Scots ultimately ended up allied with him and were crushed by Cromwell and his new model army.

    We then had the restoration of Charles II who was a popular monarch and ruled until his dying day. However Charles III, II and I were all anointed by God as the coronation will still make clear even if he is now a constitutional monarch.

    Saturday for coronation day means I is not a bank holiday day either is it
    If you think Charles II was popular, I wonder where you studied history. And God must have got confused about Charles III(A) as he inherited his divine right from his dad James VII and II, according to your theory.

    Anointing is not relevant as kings become kings instantly.
    Charles II certainly was popular, there was not a single revolt of any significance in his reign.

    God divinely ordained that William III would succeed James II and the Jacobite rebellions would be crushed. There never was a Charles III until this one, only a Pretender. Kings may become King on the death of the previous monarch but they are not formally anointed by God until the coronation
    Not a single revolt of any significance

    That's quite a low bar, surely
    Quite. MIlitary occupation of much of Scotland and recurrent battles and assassinations. Don't know about E&W. But going beyond Kwarteng wasn't popular at the time.
    Charles II was King for 25 years, successfully restored the monarchy after the Cromwellian period so that is still with us today and bar a few minor skirmishes and a few naval battles either the Dutch his reign was one of peace and prosperity (ignoring the Plague and Fire of London about which he could do little but which led to the building of the great St Paul's cathedral amongst others).

    He was also a great patron of science and the arts and tried to increase freedom of religion for Roman Catholics and dissenters
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,621

    Truss is the worst public speaker in a leading role in my entire adult life frankly.

    She comes across as hopelessly dire on BBC headline news.

    Will that matter?

    I think it will.

    She is relatively OK in a set piece like a speech, where she can be rehearsed and trained.

    It is in interviews that she is awful and stilted. She cannot think on her feet, or understand anyone's views but her own. Not a great advert for Oxford.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,042
    pigeon said:

    Desperately sad. If these conscripts make it to the front the Ukr army will simply wipe them out or if they are lucky take them prisoner.

    Has there ever been a more self-destructive, self-inflicted disaster war than Putin's? Ethopia?

    Christo Grozev
    @christogrozev
    ·
    51m
    Jesus, the mobilization goes worse than the cliche about the terrible mobilization.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1577752174137954306

    No sympathy for the Russians. None. As the Ukrainian Government and many Ukrainian commentators have pointed out, most Russians either don't care about Putin's war or actively support it.

    However, if enough Russian soldiers are shipped home in black bags, or fed into mobile crematoria, or simply abandoned in the field for the Ukrainians to recover and dispose of, then it might eventually dawn on the Russian people that the war isn't a very good idea. I mean, they still won't think they've done anything wrong, but there might at least be a chance of them putting a few bullets in their dictator and throwing in the towel - before half the military age men in Russia either get converted into sunflower fertiliser or emigrate to Turkey.
    Best is massive numbers of POWs being taken, all phoning home to say how humanely they are being treated (including those 15 minute calls home). Word will soon get round that the Ukrainians value their children far more than Russia ever does

    That's how revolutions start.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,148
    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well she is at least seen as rich, which might be a positive I suppose
    I assume that's "rich," as in, "only cares about the." Which probably isn't a net positive electorally.
    Might be in Kensington and Chelsea and Westminster
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103

    Mike Scott
    @MickPuck
    ·
    5h
    The Tories can use my song OLD ENGLAND to close their conference if they like. No charge.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 516
    edited October 5

    Truss is the worst public speaker in a leading role in my entire adult life frankly.

    She comes across as hopelessly dire on BBC headline news.

    Will that matter?

    I think it will.

    I think it matters a bit, but more because public speaking is just one of multiple areas she's doing badly in. In an alternate universe, if she was equally bad at speech-making, but on the other hand was really good at 1-on-1 conversations with other MPs and convincing the best to join her cabinet regardless of faction; or she was really adept at judging which policies would be well or poorly received; or she could map out a convincing strategy -- then I think the public speaking would matter a lot less. Other people better in the communications role would be willing and able to go out there and take on a lot of that burden.

    Conversely, great charismatic public speaking only gets you so far if you don't have the right policies and your cabinet's full of lightweights and the party's falling apart.

    It would be interesting to know how many people have heard her speak at any length (ie more than just a soundbite). I haven't, so inability to give a good speech or interview isn't playing into why I think she's a bad PM...
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,322

    HYUFD said:

    Truss will hope she gets a conference bounce, otherwise she will have the shortest premiership since Douglas Home

    On what basis is she going to get a bounce??? The more they see her, the more they find to dislike.
    Came across as hopelessly and utterly out of her depth on BBC News at 10 to me.

    "It.Is.A.Disgrace" was not a one off. This is how she presents.

    Zzz... it's only Liz Truss. Nobody gives a d*mn!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,621
    pigeon said:

    Desperately sad. If these conscripts make it to the front the Ukr army will simply wipe them out or if they are lucky take them prisoner.

    Has there ever been a more self-destructive, self-inflicted disaster war than Putin's? Ethopia?

    Christo Grozev
    @christogrozev
    ·
    51m
    Jesus, the mobilization goes worse than the cliche about the terrible mobilization.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1577752174137954306

    No sympathy for the Russians. None. As the Ukrainian Government and many Ukrainian commentators have pointed out, most Russians either don't care about Putin's war or actively support it.

    However, if enough Russian soldiers are shipped home in black bags, or fed into mobile crematoria, or simply abandoned in the field for the Ukrainians to recover and dispose of, then it might eventually dawn on the Russian people that the war isn't a very good idea. I mean, they still won't think they've done anything wrong, but there might at least be a chance of them putting a few bullets in their dictator and throwing in the towel - before half the military age men in Russia either get converted into sunflower fertiliser or emigrate to Turkey.
    Looking down that thread, they may not be average mobiks, but rather the ex prisoners who signed up for the Wagner group.

    I wouldn't rush to give them guns either!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,096
    edited October 5
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If you think that the God bit is so important - then I can't help remembering what happened when Charles I, II and III(A) pushed that line of argument about divine right.

    Seriously, it's a crass time in terms of established holidays. And we shouldn't be giging any mor ebank holidays. The country has to earn its living ((c) Cosnervative Party).
    Well it led in Charles 1st case to the English civil war where you Scots ultimately ended up allied with him and were crushed by Cromwell and his new model army.

    We then had the restoration of Charles II who was a popular monarch and ruled until his dying day. However Charles III, II and I were all anointed by God as the coronation will still make clear even if he is now a constitutional monarch.

    Saturday for coronation day means I is not a bank holiday day either is it
    If you think Charles II was popular, I wonder where you studied history. And God must have got confused about Charles III(A) as he inherited his divine right from his dad James VII and II, according to your theory.

    Anointing is not relevant as kings become kings instantly.
    Charles II certainly was popular, there was not a single revolt of any significance in his reign.

    God divinely ordained that William III would succeed James II and the Jacobite rebellions would be crushed. There never was a Charles III until this one, only a Pretender. Kings may become King on the death of the previous monarch but they are not formally anointed by God until the coronation
    Not a single revolt of any significance

    That's quite a low bar, surely
    Quite. MIlitary occupation of much of Scotland and recurrent battles and assassinations. Don't know about E&W. But going beyond Kwarteng wasn't popular at the time.
    Charles II was King for 25 years, successfully restored the monarchy after the Cromwellian period so that is still with us today and bar a few minor skirmishes and a few naval battles either the Dutch his reign was one of peace and prosperity (ignoring the Plague and Fire of London about which he could do little but which led to the building of the great St Paul's cathedral amongst others).

    He was also a great patron of science and the arts and tried to increase freedom of religion for Roman Catholics and dissenters
    His reign was flatly not one of peace and plenty. 6 years of Dutch war out of 24 is not trivial, and much more in th eway of struggles in Scotland (then a different country). And he bankrupted the state b y defaulting on all debt.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,042
    dixiedean said:

    Truss is the worst public speaker in a leading role in my entire adult life frankly.

    She comes across as hopelessly dire on BBC headline news.

    Will that matter?

    I think it will.

    She reminds me of one of those candidates on The Apprentice who bang on about being able to sell anything, then do their big "pitch" and are totally incoherent and unable to answer even the simplest question in a way that would embarrass a trainee Primary School teacher.
    "You're fired!"

    First out.....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Foxy said:

    Truss is the worst public speaker in a leading role in my entire adult life frankly.

    She comes across as hopelessly dire on BBC headline news.

    Will that matter?

    I think it will.

    She is relatively OK in a set piece like a speech, where she can be rehearsed and trained.

    It is in interviews that she is awful and stilted. She cannot think on her feet, or understand anyone's views but her own. Not a great advert for Oxford.
    Disagree I am afraid to be honest. She is dire at set piece because her timing is so woeful. I think it is to do with autocue. But also she clearly lacks confidence and compensates by over emphasising the wrong words in a mess.

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,529
    edited October 5
    I don't think the "anti-growth coalition" meme is going to stick. It's naff. Hardly anybody is anti-growth, including the groups that Truss called out in her speech. It's really just "enemies of the people" writ large, and it seems to be the right's only weapon at the moment. Starmer is carefully inclusive.

    I reckon people are sick of the divisive politics stuff that consists of "othering" groups, whether it be environmentalists, the BBC, lawyers, the civil service, people on benefits and so on. It's not going to work anymore. It had its heyday when Brexit was going on, but post-Covid it's passé.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,918
    Cracking posts on the last thread @hyufd. Well done.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,540

    HYUFD said:

    Truss will hope she gets a conference bounce, otherwise she will have the shortest premiership since Douglas Home

    On what basis is she going to get a bounce??? The more they see her, the more they find to dislike.
    So you reckon the polling could deteriorate further for Truss. Below 20% more likely than above 30%?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,808

    Foxy said:

    Truss is the worst public speaker in a leading role in my entire adult life frankly.

    She comes across as hopelessly dire on BBC headline news.

    Will that matter?

    I think it will.

    She is relatively OK in a set piece like a speech, where she can be rehearsed and trained.

    It is in interviews that she is awful and stilted. She cannot think on her feet, or understand anyone's views but her own. Not a great advert for Oxford.
    Disagree I am afraid to be honest. She is dire at set piece because her timing is so woeful. I think it is to do with autocue. But also she clearly lacks confidence and compensates by over emphasising the wrong words in a mess.

    Not just the timing - you can tell there’s no conviction behind the words and she’s just labouring through something written for her by junior advisors.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,148
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If you think that the God bit is so important - then I can't help remembering what happened when Charles I, II and III(A) pushed that line of argument about divine right.

    Seriously, it's a crass time in terms of established holidays. And we shouldn't be giging any mor ebank holidays. The country has to earn its living ((c) Cosnervative Party).
    Well it led in Charles 1st case to the English civil war where you Scots ultimately ended up allied with him and were crushed by Cromwell and his new model army.

    We then had the restoration of Charles II who was a popular monarch and ruled until his dying day. However Charles III, II and I were all anointed by God as the coronation will still make clear even if he is now a constitutional monarch.

    Saturday for coronation day means I is not a bank holiday day either is it
    If you think Charles II was popular, I wonder where you studied history. And God must have got confused about Charles III(A) as he inherited his divine right from his dad James VII and II, according to your theory.

    Anointing is not relevant as kings become kings instantly.
    Charles II certainly was popular, there was not a single revolt of any significance in his reign.

    God divinely ordained that William III would succeed James II and the Jacobite rebellions would be crushed. There never was a Charles III until this one, only a Pretender. Kings may become King on the death of the previous monarch but they are not formally anointed by God until the coronation
    Not a single revolt of any significance

    That's quite a low bar, surely
    Quite. MIlitary occupation of much of Scotland and recurrent battles and assassinations. Don't know about E&W. But going beyond Kwarteng wasn't popular at the time.
    Charles II was King for 25 years, successfully restored the monarchy after the Cromwellian period so that is still with us today and bar a few minor skirmishes and a few naval battles either the Dutch his reign was one of peace and prosperity (ignoring the Plague and Fire of London about which he could do little but which led to the building of the great St Paul's cathedral amongst others).

    He was also a great patron of science and the arts and tried to increase freedom of religion for Roman Catholics and dissenters
    His reign was flatly not one of peace and plenty. 6 years of war out of 24 is not trivial. And he bankrupted the state b y defaulting on all debt.
    There was no conflict at all in English or Welsh soil in his reign and only a few minor skirmishes in Scotland.

    The debt issue was a combination of Parliament being unwilling to raise enough money and no Bank of England. Resolved when the Bank was founded in 1694
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,042
    dixiedean said:
    Shooting the messenger. He must have told her he couldn't sell her to the voters...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103

    I don't think the "anti-growth coalition" meme is going to stick. It's naff. Hardly anybody is anti-growth, including the groups that Truss called out in her speech. It's really just "enemies of the people" writ large, and it seems to be the right's only weapon at the moment. Starmer is carefully inclusive.

    I reckon people are sick of the divisive politics stuff that consists of "othering" groups, whether it be environmentalists, the BBC, lawyers, the civil service, people on benefits and so on. It's not going to work anymore. It had its heyday when Brexit was going on, but post-Covid it's passé.

    Nadine on front page of Times comes out with full frontal attack and warns of lab landslide.

    The Bring Back Boris brigade are on the march.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,808
    New York has far too much city in far too little space
  • Hello_CloudsHello_Clouds Posts: 97
    edited October 5
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Chess prodigy Hans Niemann suspected of cheating in more than 100 matches
    Specialist website publishes 72-page dossier on claims"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chess-prodigy-hans-niemann-suspected-of-cheating-in-up-to-100-matches-htbfs9bq5

    I read the report yesterday: it seems pretty clear he was cheating on-line, but the evidence is more mixed for the IRL games.
    Will he sue Elon Musk for this tweet? Arguably if there's good reason to believe he has cheated a lot online - and he has admitted cheating in some online games - then being thought to be a cheat OTB wouldn't damage his reputation much. But Musk does seem to be accusing him of cheating by means of beads he put up his bottom. Chess proctors may soon have to be proctologists.

    The story will develop, because he is accused of having won large prizes by cheating (in online games), which is a crime.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,468
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If you think that the God bit is so important - then I can't help remembering what happened when Charles I, II and III(A) pushed that line of argument about divine right.

    Seriously, it's a crass time in terms of established holidays. And we shouldn't be giging any mor ebank holidays. The country has to earn its living ((c) Cosnervative Party).
    Well it led in Charles 1st case to the English civil war where you Scots ultimately ended up allied with him and were crushed by Cromwell and his new model army.

    We then had the restoration of Charles II who was a popular monarch and ruled until his dying day. However Charles III, II and I were all anointed by God as the coronation will still make clear even if he is now a constitutional monarch.

    Saturday for coronation day means I is not a bank holiday day either is it
    If you think Charles II was popular, I wonder where you studied history. And God must have got confused about Charles III(A) as he inherited his divine right from his dad James VII and II, according to your theory.

    Anointing is not relevant as kings become kings instantly.
    Charles II certainly was popular, there was not a single revolt of any significance in his reign.

    God divinely ordained that William III would succeed James II and the Jacobite rebellions would be crushed. There never was a Charles III until this one, only a Pretender. Kings may become King on the death of the previous monarch but they are not formally anointed by God until the coronation
    Not a single revolt of any significance

    That's quite a low bar, surely
    Quite. MIlitary occupation of much of Scotland and recurrent battles and assassinations. Don't know about E&W. But going beyond Kwarteng wasn't popular at the time.
    Charles II was King for 25 years
    Tut tut, you call yourself a monarchist?

    A true royalist would say he was king for 36 years. He just wasn't able to exercise power in the kingdom at the time.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I don't think the "anti-growth coalition" meme is going to stick. It's naff. Hardly anybody is anti-growth. It's really just "enemies of the people" writ large, and it seems to be the right's only weapon at the moment. Starmer is carefully inclusive.

    I reckon people are sick of the divisive politics stuff that consists of "othering" groups, whether it be environmentalists, the BBC, lawyers, the civil service, people on benefits and so on. It's not going to work anymore. It had its heyday when Brexit was going on, but post-Covid it's passé.

    I'm kind of anti growth, on the basis that there are limits to natural resources and land and food. We are a culture in a test tube and growth means we are eventually going to fill up the whole tube and choke ourselves. "Anti growth" puts me immediately in mind of "Doctor, I've got a growth on my thingy." Doesn’t work as a rallying cry at all.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,529
    dixiedean said:
    Replaced as election guru by Mark Fullbrook, who ran Zac Goldsmith's notoriously racist London mayoral campaign against Sadiq Khan. Doesn't augur well.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,468
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If you think that the God bit is so important - then I can't help remembering what happened when Charles I, II and III(A) pushed that line of argument about divine right.

    Seriously, it's a crass time in terms of established holidays. And we shouldn't be giging any mor ebank holidays. The country has to earn its living ((c) Cosnervative Party).
    Well it led in Charles 1st case to the English civil war where you Scots ultimately ended up allied with him and were crushed by Cromwell and his new model army.

    We then had the restoration of Charles II who was a popular monarch and ruled until his dying day. However Charles III, II and I were all anointed by God as the coronation will still make clear even if he is now a constitutional monarch.

    Saturday for coronation day means I is not a bank holiday day either is it
    If you think Charles II was popular, I wonder where you studied history. And God must have got confused about Charles III(A) as he inherited his divine right from his dad James VII and II, according to your theory.

    Anointing is not relevant as kings become kings instantly.
    Charles II certainly was popular, there was not a single revolt of any significance in his reign.

    God divinely ordained that William III would succeed James II and the Jacobite rebellions would be crushed. There never was a Charles III until this one, only a Pretender. Kings may become King on the death of the previous monarch but they are not formally anointed by God until the coronation
    Not a single revolt of any significance

    That's quite a low bar, surely
    Quite. MIlitary occupation of much of Scotland and recurrent battles and assassinations. Don't know about E&W. But going beyond Kwarteng wasn't popular at the time.
    Charles II was King for 25 years, successfully restored the monarchy after the Cromwellian period so that is still with us today and bar a few minor skirmishes and a few naval battles either the Dutch his reign was one of peace and prosperity (ignoring the Plague and Fire of London about which he could do little but which led to the building of the great St Paul's cathedral amongst others).

    He was also a great patron of science and the arts and tried to increase freedom of religion for Roman Catholics and dissenters
    His reign was flatly not one of peace and plenty. 6 years of Dutch war out of 24 is not trivial
    No, but relative to the years before?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    dixiedean said:
    Starmer must have drunk so many celebratory toasts this week that he will need a week off in a detox spar.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,621
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If you think that the God bit is so important - then I can't help remembering what happened when Charles I, II and III(A) pushed that line of argument about divine right.

    Seriously, it's a crass time in terms of established holidays. And we shouldn't be giging any mor ebank holidays. The country has to earn its living ((c) Cosnervative Party).
    Well it led in Charles 1st case to the English civil war where you Scots ultimately ended up allied with him and were crushed by Cromwell and his new model army.

    We then had the restoration of Charles II who was a popular monarch and ruled until his dying day. However Charles III, II and I were all anointed by God as the coronation will still make clear even if he is now a constitutional monarch.

    Saturday for coronation day means I is not a bank holiday day either is it
    If you think Charles II was popular, I wonder where you studied history. And God must have got confused about Charles III(A) as he inherited his divine right from his dad James VII and II, according to your theory.

    Anointing is not relevant as kings become kings instantly.
    Charles II certainly was popular, there was not a single revolt of any significance in his reign.

    God divinely ordained that William III would succeed James II and the Jacobite rebellions would be crushed. There never was a Charles III until this one, only a Pretender. Kings may become King on the death of the previous monarch but they are not formally anointed by God until the coronation
    Not a single revolt of any significance

    That's quite a low bar, surely
    Quite. MIlitary occupation of much of Scotland and recurrent battles and assassinations. Don't know about E&W. But going beyond Kwarteng wasn't popular at the time.
    Charles II was King for 25 years, successfully restored the monarchy after the Cromwellian period so that is still with us today and bar a few minor skirmishes and a few naval battles either the Dutch his reign was one of peace and prosperity (ignoring the Plague and Fire of London about which he could do little but which led to the building of the great St Paul's cathedral amongst others).

    He was also a great patron of science and the arts and tried to increase freedom of religion for Roman Catholics and dissenters
    Religious tolerance only came with the Tolerance act of 1688 under William and Mary. Even then Catholics, some dissenters sects, Jews and atheists were barred from parliament and many government positions into the 19th century.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,468

    Truss comes across as absolutely desperate.

    The "wrong, wrong, wrong" line is so badly timed and delivered that it is embarrassing.

    What the f were the membership thinking?

    They were thinking she was a very experienced Cabinet Minister holding a Great Office of State, who if she had not done a sterling job everywhere she went was not obviously known for being terrible.

    Ok, she was awkward and clearly telling them anything they wanted to hear, but I'm prepared to give the members this much credit, that they could hardly have predicted Truss would decide to open her premiership by detonating a landmine in her pocket at first opportunity.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,322
    So now that the conference is over, and seems to have been rather less than a resounding success, are we now seeing the first signs of open warfare in the Tory party?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,529

    dixiedean said:
    Starmer must have drunk so many celebratory toasts this week that he will need a week off in a detox spar.

    He's making up for the modest amount of beer he had with his korma up in Durham, I reckon.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If you think that the God bit is so important - then I can't help remembering what happened when Charles I, II and III(A) pushed that line of argument about divine right.

    Seriously, it's a crass time in terms of established holidays. And we shouldn't be giging any mor ebank holidays. The country has to earn its living ((c) Cosnervative Party).
    Well it led in Charles 1st case to the English civil war where you Scots ultimately ended up allied with him and were crushed by Cromwell and his new model army.

    We then had the restoration of Charles II who was a popular monarch and ruled until his dying day. However Charles III, II and I were all anointed by God as the coronation will still make clear even if he is now a constitutional monarch.

    Saturday for coronation day means I is not a bank holiday day either is it
    If you think Charles II was popular, I wonder where you studied history. And God must have got confused about Charles III(A) as he inherited his divine right from his dad James VII and II, according to your theory.

    Anointing is not relevant as kings become kings instantly.
    Charles II certainly was popular, there was not a single revolt of any significance in his reign.

    God divinely ordained that William III would succeed James II and the Jacobite rebellions would be crushed. There never was a Charles III until this one, only a Pretender. Kings may become King on the death of the previous monarch but they are not formally anointed by God until the coronation
    Not a single revolt of any significance

    That's quite a low bar, surely
    Quite. MIlitary occupation of much of Scotland and recurrent battles and assassinations. Don't know about E&W. But going beyond Kwarteng wasn't popular at the time.
    Charles II was King for 25 years, successfully restored the monarchy after the Cromwellian period so that is still with us today and bar a few minor skirmishes and a few naval battles either the Dutch his reign was one of peace and prosperity (ignoring the Plague and Fire of London about which he could do little but which led to the building of the great St Paul's cathedral amongst others).

    He was also a great patron of science and the arts and tried to increase freedom of religion for Roman Catholics and dissenters
    Got his knob out a lot, and pointedly declined to revise his grandfather's assessment of Our Lord's sexual orientation. Good bloke.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103

    So now that the conference is over, and seems to have been rather less than a resounding success, are we now seeing the first signs of open warfare in the Tory party?

    Next week is going to be popcorn-tastic.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,918

    I don't think the "anti-growth coalition" meme is going to stick. It's naff. Hardly anybody is anti-growth, including the groups that Truss called out in her speech. It's really just "enemies of the people" writ large, and it seems to be the right's only weapon at the moment. Starmer is carefully inclusive.

    I reckon people are sick of the divisive politics stuff that consists of "othering" groups, whether it be environmentalists, the BBC, lawyers, the civil service, people on benefits and so on. It's not going to work anymore. It had its heyday when Brexit was going on, but post-Covid it's passé.

    Nadine on front page of Times comes out with full frontal attack and warns of lab landslide.

    The Bring Back Boris brigade are on the march.

    The words that sprang out at me were: 'Nadine' 'front page' and 'full frontal'.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157
    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well she is at least seen as rich, which might be a positive I suppose
    I assume that's "rich," as in, "only cares about the." Which probably isn't a net positive electorally.
    Might be in Kensington and Chelsea and Westminster
    I know you're being funny but, seriously, there's not a single Parliamentary constituency in the land where there are enough Additional Rate taxpayers to keep the Conservatives afloat.

    The next election is all about the grey vote. If the Conservatives can consolidate that bloc then they can avoid a catastrophic defeat. If Labour can peel enough oldies off then it's goodnight Vienna.

    One thing you can be sure of - if Truss attempts to ram real terms social security cuts through the Commons, whether by limiting the uprating to be in line with earnings or freezing benefits outright - is that the state pension will remain tied to the full rate of inflation. And I'm surprised that the abolition of IHT hasn't been proposed yet as well.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,322
    edited October 5
    ..
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,468
    edited October 5
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If they aren't in Westminster for it they should be watching the anointing of their new sovereign on television

    Would you expect people to cancel holidays? Many will have flights and ferries booked on that day as it’s the end of Whit week
    They certainly should, coronation day should take precedence over whatever else Charles' subjects may wish to do on that day
    why we didn't vote for the fuck
    So what, he is your divinely ordained Lord and Sovereign you oik!
    "Who voted for this?"
    We don't vote for our monarch that is the whole point, God anoints them for us as confirmed by Parliament
    Hang on.
    If God anoints them what power does Parliament have to prevent it?
    He only anoints those Parliament has selected via Act of Parliament setting out the succession.

    Quite why God has delegated this to the Westminster Parliament is something of a mystery.

    We're used to God moving in mysterious ways of course, but his modern methods of procedural arcanery feel somewhat lacking in, ahem, majesty, compared to his early work.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,529
    IshmaelZ said:

    I don't think the "anti-growth coalition" meme is going to stick. It's naff. Hardly anybody is anti-growth. It's really just "enemies of the people" writ large, and it seems to be the right's only weapon at the moment. Starmer is carefully inclusive.

    I reckon people are sick of the divisive politics stuff that consists of "othering" groups, whether it be environmentalists, the BBC, lawyers, the civil service, people on benefits and so on. It's not going to work anymore. It had its heyday when Brexit was going on, but post-Covid it's passé.

    I'm kind of anti growth, on the basis that there are limits to natural resources and land and food. We are a culture in a test tube and growth means we are eventually going to fill up the whole tube and choke ourselves. "Anti growth" puts me immediately in mind of "Doctor, I've got a growth on my thingy." Doesn’t work as a rallying cry at all.
    Yes, I think I agree, and a lot of people think that growth is overrated, that quality of life is more important than quantity, and that endless growth as an end in itself will result in tears. But it's not that group of people who Truss is trying to demonise, really.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,808
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If you think that the God bit is so important - then I can't help remembering what happened when Charles I, II and III(A) pushed that line of argument about divine right.

    Seriously, it's a crass time in terms of established holidays. And we shouldn't be giging any mor ebank holidays. The country has to earn its living ((c) Cosnervative Party).
    Well it led in Charles 1st case to the English civil war where you Scots ultimately ended up allied with him and were crushed by Cromwell and his new model army.

    We then had the restoration of Charles II who was a popular monarch and ruled until his dying day. However Charles III, II and I were all anointed by God as the coronation will still make clear even if he is now a constitutional monarch.

    Saturday for coronation day means I is not a bank holiday day either is it
    If you think Charles II was popular, I wonder where you studied history. And God must have got confused about Charles III(A) as he inherited his divine right from his dad James VII and II, according to your theory.

    Anointing is not relevant as kings become kings instantly.
    Charles II certainly was popular, there was not a single revolt of any significance in his reign.

    God divinely ordained that William III would succeed James II and the Jacobite rebellions would be crushed. There never was a Charles III until this one, only a Pretender. Kings may become King on the death of the previous monarch but they are not formally anointed by God until the coronation
    Not a single revolt of any significance

    That's quite a low bar, surely
    Quite. MIlitary occupation of much of Scotland and recurrent battles and assassinations. Don't know about E&W. But going beyond Kwarteng wasn't popular at the time.
    Charles II was King for 25 years, successfully restored the monarchy after the Cromwellian period so that is still with us today and bar a few minor skirmishes and a few naval battles either the Dutch his reign was one of peace and prosperity (ignoring the Plague and Fire of London about which he could do little but which led to the building of the great St Paul's cathedral amongst others).

    He was also a great patron of science and the arts and tried to increase freedom of religion for Roman Catholics and dissenters
    Religious tolerance only came with the Tolerance act of 1688 under William and Mary. Even then Catholics, some dissenters sects, Jews and atheists were barred from parliament and many government positions into the 19th century.
    Superficially, the restoration drew a line under our spell as a republic, and ‘normal’ life as a monarchy resumed. But look more deeply and it isn’t so; that short period of history during which we had no king sowed seeds many of which subsequently flowered, both at home and more momentously in our American colonies. At home, when you strip away the gloss painted over it by subsequent histories, 1688 was effectively a military coup in which the monarchy-first approach of the two Charleses was decisively rejected.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Truss is the worst public speaker in a leading role in my entire adult life frankly.

    She comes across as hopelessly dire on BBC headline news.

    Will that matter?

    I think it will.

    She is relatively OK in a set piece like a speech, where she can be rehearsed and trained.

    It is in interviews that she is awful and stilted. She cannot think on her feet, or understand anyone's views but her own. Not a great advert for Oxford.
    Disagree I am afraid to be honest. She is dire at set piece because her timing is so woeful. I think it is to do with autocue. But also she clearly lacks confidence and compensates by over emphasising the wrong words in a mess.

    Not just the timing - you can tell there’s no conviction behind the words and she’s just labouring through something written for her by junior advisors.
    Blimey, you mean even she doesn't believe in this crap?

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,454
    dixiedean said:
    Issac Levido's replacement by his old business associate, fellow Ozzie and current FBI politico of interest Mark Fullbrook is part of the deal by which MF became PM's CoS with his "compensation" provided (at least in accounting terms) by MF's new firm.

    Lest we forget, Fullbrook was part of the consultant team that flew to San Juan in 2020 to present a six-figure election campaign program to the (then) Governor of Puerto Rico (arrested by federal authorities last month) that was paid for by a massive but sadly, and allegedly, illegal campaign contribution.
  • Hello_CloudsHello_Clouds Posts: 97
    edited October 5
    IshmaelZ said:

    I don't think the "anti-growth coalition" meme is going to stick. It's naff. Hardly anybody is anti-growth. It's really just "enemies of the people" writ large, and it seems to be the right's only weapon at the moment. Starmer is carefully inclusive.

    I reckon people are sick of the divisive politics stuff that consists of "othering" groups, whether it be environmentalists, the BBC, lawyers, the civil service, people on benefits and so on. It's not going to work anymore. It had its heyday when Brexit was going on, but post-Covid it's passé.

    I'm kind of anti growth, on the basis that there are limits to natural resources and land and food. We are a culture in a test tube and growth means we are eventually going to fill up the whole tube and choke ourselves. "Anti growth" puts me immediately in mind of "Doctor, I've got a growth on my thingy." Doesn’t work as a rallying cry at all.
    It's a double negative: "Vote Tory because we're anti the anti-growth crowd." That won't win or win back any votes at all. It's appallingly bad. If that were all she had, she'd be in real trouble. But she may soon have war.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,736
    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well she is at least seen as rich, which might be a positive I suppose
    I assume that's "rich," as in, "only cares about the." Which probably isn't a net positive electorally.
    Might be in Kensington and Chelsea and Westminster
    I know you're being funny but, seriously, there's not a single Parliamentary constituency in the land where there are enough Additional Rate taxpayers to keep the Conservatives afloat.

    The next election is all about the grey vote. If the Conservatives can consolidate that bloc then they can avoid a catastrophic defeat. If Labour can peel enough oldies off then it's goodnight Vienna.

    One thing you can be sure of - if Truss attempts to ram real terms social security cuts through the Commons, whether by limiting the uprating to be in line with earnings or freezing benefits outright - is that the state pension will remain tied to the full rate of inflation. And I'm surprised that the abolition of IHT hasn't been proposed yet as well.
    It has...

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/03/id-like-inheritance-tax-to-be-abolished-says-uk-treasury-minister
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,552
    edited October 5
    It really is like the Twilight Zone. Nadine Dorries accusing Truss of a lurch to the right and cruelty to the poor !

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,226
    🚨EXCL

    Do voters think Liz Truss is as economically right wing, as Jeremy Corbyn is left?

    We asked voters to rank themselves & politicians from 0-10 (10 is 'very right wing')🤓

    Both Sunak & Johnson were closer to Con voters than Truss

    Starmer = 4, avg voter = 4.9👀

    #Peston https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1577775320530386944/photo/1
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well she is at least seen as rich, which might be a positive I suppose
    I assume that's "rich," as in, "only cares about the." Which probably isn't a net positive electorally.
    Might be in Kensington and Chelsea and Westminster
    I know you're being funny but, seriously, there's not a single Parliamentary constituency in the land where there are enough Additional Rate taxpayers to keep the Conservatives afloat.

    The next election is all about the grey vote. If the Conservatives can consolidate that bloc then they can avoid a catastrophic defeat. If Labour can peel enough oldies off then it's goodnight Vienna.

    One thing you can be sure of - if Truss attempts to ram real terms social security cuts through the Commons, whether by limiting the uprating to be in line with earnings or freezing benefits outright - is that the state pension will remain tied to the full rate of inflation. And I'm surprised that the abolition of IHT hasn't been proposed yet as well.
    It has...

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/03/id-like-inheritance-tax-to-be-abolished-says-uk-treasury-minister
    Yes, I know about those remarks, but it isn't actually policy - yet.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,736

    So now that the conference is over, and seems to have been rather less than a resounding success, are we now seeing the first signs of open warfare in the Tory party?

    Nope, those were first seen the day after the budget-that-wasn't-a-budget.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,529

    Foxy said:

    Truss is the worst public speaker in a leading role in my entire adult life frankly.

    She comes across as hopelessly dire on BBC headline news.

    Will that matter?

    I think it will.

    She is relatively OK in a set piece like a speech, where she can be rehearsed and trained.

    It is in interviews that she is awful and stilted. She cannot think on her feet, or understand anyone's views but her own. Not a great advert for Oxford.
    Disagree I am afraid to be honest. She is dire at set piece because her timing is so woeful. I think it is to do with autocue. But also she clearly lacks confidence and compensates by over emphasising the wrong words in a mess.

    And those embarrassingly long pauses when she's expecting applause because she thinks she's delivered a zinger, but it doesn't materialise immediately.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,876
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Truss is the worst public speaker in a leading role in my entire adult life frankly.

    She comes across as hopelessly dire on BBC headline news.

    Will that matter?

    I think it will.

    She is relatively OK in a set piece like a speech, where she can be rehearsed and trained.

    It is in interviews that she is awful and stilted. She cannot think on her feet, or understand anyone's views but her own. Not a great advert for Oxford.
    Disagree I am afraid to be honest. She is dire at set piece because her timing is so woeful. I think it is to do with autocue. But also she clearly lacks confidence and compensates by over emphasising the wrong words in a mess.

    Not just the timing - you can tell there’s no conviction behind the words and she’s just labouring through something written for her by junior advisors.
    Whilst the last five percent is talent and some people just don't have it, a lot of this is just taking the task of public speaking seriously and putting in the hours to get competent at it. Which Truss hasn't done. There are getting on for a million teachers out there who are better at this, because they have to do the basics five times a day.

    Boris wasn't good either. But he had the hair, the phwoarr noises, the classical tags to cover the low quality of his speeches. (As Clive James once said to Gyles Brandreth, "love the jumpers, they're a neat alternative to an act.") But Truss doesn't even have that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,621

    I don't think the "anti-growth coalition" meme is going to stick. It's naff. Hardly anybody is anti-growth, including the groups that Truss called out in her speech. It's really just "enemies of the people" writ large, and it seems to be the right's only weapon at the moment. Starmer is carefully inclusive.

    I reckon people are sick of the divisive politics stuff that consists of "othering" groups, whether it be environmentalists, the BBC, lawyers, the civil service, people on benefits and so on. It's not going to work anymore. It had its heyday when Brexit was going on, but post-Covid it's passé.

    Notably Truss included people opposed to Brexit in her anti-growth coalition, which is a bit odd as one of the most cited reasons against Brexit is that it has damaged growth, probably by 4% GDP so far.

    It is a meaningless rag-bag of people she doesn't like.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,322
    edited October 5

    I don't think the "anti-growth coalition" meme is going to stick. It's naff. Hardly anybody is anti-growth, including the groups that Truss called out in her speech. It's really just "enemies of the people" writ large, and it seems to be the right's only weapon at the moment. Starmer is carefully inclusive.

    I reckon people are sick of the divisive politics stuff that consists of "othering" groups, whether it be environmentalists, the BBC, lawyers, the civil service, people on benefits and so on. It's not going to work anymore. It had its heyday when Brexit was going on, but post-Covid it's passé.

    Nadine on front page of Times comes out with full frontal attack and warns of lab landslide.

    The Bring Back Boris brigade are on the march.

    That is a brutal photograph on the front of The Times. I might buy a copy tomorrow just to cut that photo out and stick on the front door. It should keep all sorts of Door-to-door salesmen and preachers away.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCLUSIVE: King Charles III is expected to be crowned on Saturday, June 3 next year in a ceremony at Westminster Abbey in London, UK officials say https://trib.al/scMyUPW https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1577687117475504129/photo/1

    Derby Day, unless it is moved.
    The Coronation will be over by
    2 30pm, the main race of the Derby does not start until 4 30pm
    There will not be enough police to cover both events. Not with the crowds that can reasonably be expected. One or the other will have to be postponed.
    Yes there will, Epsom is not in London it is in Surrey. The Met and a handful of other forces can deal with the coronation. I doubt the crowd would be much bigger than that for the London marathon on Sunday
    They take officers from across the country for events like this. There were ten thousand extra police on duty in London for the funeral and there are hardly likely to be substantially fewer for the coronation.

    Edit - and incidentally Surrey draft extra officers in to manage Derby Day as well, which is hardly surprising given they have 1800 on traffic duty alone.
    I doubt the crowd will be as big as for the funeral and even 10,000 is less than 10% of the 110,000 UK police officers outside London
    Why should the rest of the UK pander to London royalists when they already have major UK events booked?
    As it is the coronation of their next head of state anointed by God. It hasn't happened for 70 years and they should show some damn respect!!!!

    If they aren't in Westminster for it they should be watching the anointing of their new sovereign on television

    Would you expect people to cancel holidays? Many will have flights and ferries booked on that day as it’s the end of Whit week
    They certainly should, coronation day should take precedence over whatever else Charles' subjects may wish to do on that day
    why we didn't vote for the fuck
    So what, he is your divinely ordained Lord and Sovereign you oik!
    "Who voted for this?"
    We don't vote for our monarch that is the whole point, God anoints them for us as confirmed by Parliament
    Hang on.
    If God anoints them what power does Parliament have to prevent it?
    He only anoints those Parliament has selected via Act of Parliament setting out the succession.

    Quite why God has delegated this to the Westminster Parliament is something of a mystery.

    We're used to God moving in mysterious ways of course, but his modern methods of procedural arcanery feel somewhat lacking in, ahem, majesty, compared to his early work.
    The solution to this is to return to the medieval method of deciding succession disputes through battles, in which the Almighty can demonstrate his will by raising up the victor and striking down the vanquished?

    Of course, the return of full-scale pitched battles and vast numbers of people perishing horribly is not to be encouraged, so if someone thinks they have a better claim than the King then the matter could be decided by a duel with pugil sticks.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,736

    IshmaelZ said:

    I don't think the "anti-growth coalition" meme is going to stick. It's naff. Hardly anybody is anti-growth. It's really just "enemies of the people" writ large, and it seems to be the right's only weapon at the moment. Starmer is carefully inclusive.

    I reckon people are sick of the divisive politics stuff that consists of "othering" groups, whether it be environmentalists, the BBC, lawyers, the civil service, people on benefits and so on. It's not going to work anymore. It had its heyday when Brexit was going on, but post-Covid it's passé.

    I'm kind of anti growth, on the basis that there are limits to natural resources and land and food. We are a culture in a test tube and growth means we are eventually going to fill up the whole tube and choke ourselves. "Anti growth" puts me immediately in mind of "Doctor, I've got a growth on my thingy." Doesn’t work as a rallying cry at all.
    It's a double negative: "Vote Tory because we're anti the anti-growth crowd." That won't win or win back any votes at all. It's appallingly bad. If that were all she had, she'd be in real trouble. But she may soon have war.
    ...at which point we're ALL in real trouble.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,600

    FPT

    Do any PBers still support Truss?

    🙋‍♂️

    I would 100% rather a tax cutting PM who is prepared to stand up to NIMBYs, even if they lose the next election, than a tax rising NIMBY pandering one.
    Me too. She's an idiot diviner. The bigger the prize plum, the more vocal they are in their fulminating disapproval of her.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,552

    I don't think the "anti-growth coalition" meme is going to stick. It's naff. Hardly anybody is anti-growth, including the groups that Truss called out in her speech. It's really just "enemies of the people" writ large, and it seems to be the right's only weapon at the moment. Starmer is carefully inclusive.

    I reckon people are sick of the divisive politics stuff that consists of "othering" groups, whether it be environmentalists, the BBC, lawyers, the civil service, people on benefits and so on. It's not going to work anymore. It had its heyday when Brexit was going on, but post-Covid it's passé.

    Nadine on front page of Times comes out with full frontal attack and warns of lab landslide.

    The Bring Back Boris brigade are on the march.

    That is a brutal photograph on the front of The Times. I might buy a copy tomorrow just to cut that photo out and stick on the front door. It should keep all sorts of Door-to-door salesmen and preachers away.
    Truss looks demented ! The papers are pretty ugly so far for the Maggie Clone .
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,876

    I don't think the "anti-growth coalition" meme is going to stick. It's naff. Hardly anybody is anti-growth, including the groups that Truss called out in her speech. It's really just "enemies of the people" writ large, and it seems to be the right's only weapon at the moment. Starmer is carefully inclusive.

    I reckon people are sick of the divisive politics stuff that consists of "othering" groups, whether it be environmentalists, the BBC, lawyers, the civil service, people on benefits and so on. It's not going to work anymore. It had its heyday when Brexit was going on, but post-Covid it's passé.

    The Conservatives have been circling that plughole for a while. It's the cycle of a policical party; in opposition they realise they have to reach out to others, in government it's too tempting to see anyone else as the enemy. But having beaten off all the external enemies, the Conservatives have taken to picking each other off as internal enemies. Which is roughly how we got to here.

    And yes, the Covid experience reminded us that there's more to life than me, the us is also important. Which might be why some on the right found the whole experience so traumatic.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,736
    rcs1000 said:
    Haha - you think I'm falling for that one? You'll have me banned for doxxing.

    Isaac Levido has been fired; he's a lucky guy. Not necessarily *the* Lucky guy.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,042

    HYUFD said:

    Truss will hope she gets a conference bounce, otherwise she will have the shortest premiership since Douglas Home

    On what basis is she going to get a bounce??? The more they see her, the more they find to dislike.
    So you reckon the polling could deteriorate further for Truss. Below 20% more likely than above 30%?
    What I find interesting is how women REALLY dislike her. Not saying she is exactly a hit with the men, but she really has a women problem.

    My music has just selected Doves - Kingdom of Rust. Seems quite apposite....
  • glwglw Posts: 8,788
    edited October 5

    I don't think the "anti-growth coalition" meme is going to stick. It's naff. Hardly anybody is anti-growth, including the groups that Truss called out in her speech. It's really just "enemies of the people" writ large, and it seems to be the right's only weapon at the moment. Starmer is carefully inclusive.

    I reckon people are sick of the divisive politics stuff that consists of "othering" groups, whether it be environmentalists, the BBC, lawyers, the civil service, people on benefits and so on. It's not going to work anymore. It had its heyday when Brexit was going on, but post-Covid it's passé.

    I don't agree, almost everybody is in favour of higher grow in theory, in practice though huge numbers of people oppose anything that would change their own life or neighbourhood. It's like taxes, ask the public if taxes should rise to pay for more public services and almost everyone will say yes. Hardly anyone is actually happy to pay more tax in practice.

    If being pro-growth was as widely supported as it is claimed to be we wouldn't be where we are.
This discussion has been closed.