I’ve just glanced the front pages, the Telegraph looks best for actual news - fears support for Ukraine is flagging is the lead. This is good, my Dad gets Telegraph delivered so I can read that at breaky
But my eye was caught by the first of their little “click bait” type ones at bottom - people smugglers offer free bus ride from southern med to the English Channel. What we are up against here isn’t smuggling gangs exploiting an existing opportunity, but their business model likely encourages it to start with - if they are laying on free buses across Europe they are likely filling heads heads with stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain.
Aren't they just buccaneering entrepreneurs? Offering services to willing consumers? Really great to see you back btw.
Thanks.
I suspect now, now I know the buses are laid on from their recruiting centres, they create the custom for their business, and that thought makes me mad. Are they getting customers by filling their heads with a fiction, a fantasy? stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain? Grrrrrrr. 😖
According to government figures the top originating countries for boat migrants this year are: 1. Afghanistan, 2. Iran, 3. Iraq, 4. Syria, 5. Eritrea.
I am not sure the smugglers are stomping around those countries drumming up business tbh. I suspect the demand to get out is already there.
Wtf is Ellwood blathering about on Newsnight? Macron is 'giving up' by telling the French that sacrifices will have to be made this winter to support Ukraine, instead we should be doing some massively unspecified *more* including some guff about statecraft.
With talk like that I'm surprised he isn't a frontrunner for the Tory leadership.
I’ve just glanced the front pages, the Telegraph looks best for actual news - fears support for Ukraine is flagging is the lead. This is good, my Dad gets Telegraph delivered so I can read that at breaky
But my eye was caught by the first of their little “click bait” type ones at bottom - people smugglers offer free bus ride from southern med to the English Channel. What we are up against here isn’t smuggling gangs exploiting an existing opportunity, but their business model likely encourages it to start with - if they are laying on free buses across Europe they are likely filling heads heads with stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain.
Aren't they just buccaneering entrepreneurs? Offering services to willing consumers? Really great to see you back btw.
Thanks.
I suspect now, now I know the buses are laid on from their recruiting centres, they create the custom for their business, and that thought makes me mad. Are they getting customers by filling their heads with a fiction, a fantasy? stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain? Grrrrrrr. 😖
Oooh! Capitalists filling the heads of the unwary with unobtainable goals? Whatever next?
Which party do Red Wall voters trust the most on...? (Conservative | Labour)
Ukraine (32% | 28%) Pandemic (32% | 30%) The Economy (29% | 33%) The NHS (22% | 41%) Immigration (21% | 32%) Levelling Up (17% | 39%)
Whomp whomp
The most interesting figure is the immigration one. Pretty astonishing for Labour to have an 11 point lead on that in the Red Wall, I'd have thought.
Yes that's what struck me too. I don't see an obvious reason for it tbh.
The dinghy people
The Tories have totally failed. Maybe Labour can do better?
Labour can’t do better. They will do worse, probably. But they are unproven. That’s it
I don't have a better theory for that Labour lead on immigration but why on earth would Redwall voters be hugely exercised about dinghy people?
I can understand voters in Dover, Folkestone and along what we must now call the Costa del Soilpipe, being alarmed by it, but Bolsover and Walsall?
Because they're paying attention to it?
Why wouldn't they?
It's passed me by. And the BBC news website.
Ok, I've just found it halfway down the Daily Heil's website. The numbers are shocking and depressing. The Rwanda policy has clearly achieved fuck-all.
I’m frankly amazed that a low-info low-mid-IQ incurious elderly PB left winger who only reads the Guardian and the BBC has only now discovered the channel migrant problem. Phenomenal
It's very low down the list of problems this country faces right now.
You've got to admire the government's latest plan to deter boat migrants though: pumping shit at them.
Right now Italy is about to vote for a hard right ex fascist government largely because of years of illegal immigration overseas from north Africa. This migration has now impacted Italian society and is very visible in the cities
At its peak Italy took about 1500-2000 migrant boat people a day
Britain is now up to 1300 a day
Honestly. Lefties are dangerously delusional if they think this won’t deeply impact our politics someway down the line. It will
Not being able to afford heating is going to hit most people first.
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
And you’re a pissed up late middle-aged man looking for an online argument. These people are coming over from France. In the absence of some kind of deal with the French they will carry on doing so. The current UK government is incapable of agreeing one because it sees any kind of compromise with Europeans as surrender. Other governments may well be less ideological.
This is nothing to do with Brexit or France. You’re an imbecile
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
Sooner or later the refugee convention is going to get torn up because it's too easy to abuse in a world of 8 billion people and easy international travel.
As a comparison Napoleon and Hitler bottled crossing the channel, but Albanian families in overpacked dingys have nailed the invasion.
If you want people to come up with innovative solutions on literally cut throat margins to deliver for customers criminal gangs who facilitate all manner of activities seem to be real go getters.
I’ve just glanced the front pages, the Telegraph looks best for actual news - fears support for Ukraine is flagging is the lead. This is good, my Dad gets Telegraph delivered so I can read that at breaky
But my eye was caught by the first of their little “click bait” type ones at bottom - people smugglers offer free bus ride from southern med to the English Channel. What we are up against here isn’t smuggling gangs exploiting an existing opportunity, but their business model likely encourages it to start with - if they are laying on free buses across Europe they are likely filling heads heads with stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain.
Aren't they just buccaneering entrepreneurs? Offering services to willing consumers? Really great to see you back btw.
They’re nasty pieces of work. My parents had an Iranian family round to lunch this weekend - 2 parents and a precociously bright 10 year old girl - who arrived in Britain earlier this year on one of those dinghies. They are staying at the local reception centre while their asylum claims are dealt with, and had just got confirmed at the local parish church so they are now Iranian anglicans.
They had to leave Iran in a hurry as the father had converted to Christianity, was found out and was about to be arrested and god knows what else for Apostasy which I think is a capital offence. Left with nothing but some cash and some jewellery, much of which they spent with the people traffickers to get them to Britain after an impressive odyssey across various borders (why Britain you ask? Like most others making the calculation, because he already had a brother and other relatives here versus no support network elsewhere).
As they were boarding the boat the traffickers took away all their remaining possessions, leaving them to arrive with nothing. OK these people provide a service desperate people will pay for, but they are essentially criminal scum.
Isn't the answer to the illegal economic immigrant problem a huge crackdown on those who employ and house them?
This will cause short term extreme hardship as people are turfed out on the street. We'd have to slowly offer people already here a route to citizenship, too. But that's the only long term solution, right?
I'm being careful not to confuse this with legitimate refugees, who we should be picking up as close to "source" as possible.
Which party do Red Wall voters trust the most on...? (Conservative | Labour)
Ukraine (32% | 28%) Pandemic (32% | 30%) The Economy (29% | 33%) The NHS (22% | 41%) Immigration (21% | 32%) Levelling Up (17% | 39%)
Whomp whomp
The most interesting figure is the immigration one. Pretty astonishing for Labour to have an 11 point lead on that in the Red Wall, I'd have thought.
Yes that's what struck me too. I don't see an obvious reason for it tbh.
The dinghy people
The Tories have totally failed. Maybe Labour can do better?
Labour can’t do better. They will do worse, probably. But they are unproven. That’s it
I don't have a better theory for that Labour lead on immigration but why on earth would Redwall voters be hugely exercised about dinghy people?
I can understand voters in Dover, Folkestone and along what we must now call the Costa del Soilpipe, being alarmed by it, but Bolsover and Walsall?
Because they're paying attention to it?
Why wouldn't they?
It's passed me by. And the BBC news website.
Ok, I've just found it halfway down the Daily Heil's website. The numbers are shocking and depressing. The Rwanda policy has clearly achieved fuck-all.
If one were really cynical, it could be that it was never really designed to achieve anything. On day 1 of its announcement, observant types noticed how tiny the capacity of the scheme was, and that the odds of being sent to Rwanda were pretty low, so it wouldn't work as a sufficient deterrent to get the small boat flow down to the point where the risk of being re-deported could deter.
It was a bluff, in other words. And one that thousands of people have called.
Yes it was always the last option just to disguise years of failure - any one says they don’t like it they we’re straight back with: what are you going to do then, what’s better?
They were actually hoping someone would reply with a good idea and working policy 😆
And won’t you know it, the failure to solve it having ripped rug out from under Tories, as soon as the coalition comes in 2025, the boat people might just dry up, for some natural reason in the ebb and flo of things.
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
And you’re a pissed up late middle-aged man looking for an online argument. These people are coming over from France. In the absence of some kind of deal with the French they will carry on doing so. The current UK government is incapable of agreeing one because it sees any kind of compromise with Europeans as surrender. Other governments may well be less ideological.
This is nothing to do with Brexit or France.
You’re an imbecile
It is about the UK government’s inability to deal constructively with our nearest neighbours.
I see Sun says Truss wants Frost as Chief of Staff.
Continuity Johnson on stilts.
Why on earth would any sentient PM want this guy as chief?
It’s a pathetic desperate sop to the ERG nutjobs ! The cabinet looks like being even worse than the previous shxtshow !
I really do struggle to see the logic of being the 'We should not have gotten rid of Boris' candidate, who then brings back people who quit on Boris, or promotes people he did not trust with any serious responsibility.
She is winning the members vote easily, so has broad support, and plenty of MP backers now, there's no need to go digging around for support from those quarters, and they won't be going anywhere if she fails to reward them.
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
Sooner or later the refugee convention is going to get torn up because it's too easy to abuse in a world of 8 billion people and easy international travel.
So what is the answer? People want to cross the Channel. And people will provide the service. It's a market. Any interference is Socialism.
Socialism is collective ownership of the means of production. It is not territorial defence.
No it isn't. It's any kind of interference with the "invisible hand". If you wish to adopt a more social democratic view of the role of the market then be my welcome guest.
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
What's your solution then smartarse?
Rwanda. Fly them to a deeply depressing but safe third country. Do this for every single dinghy immigrant for about six months. No appeal. Nothing. Just do it. Catch them all and do it
Then the boats would stop. Completely. My guess is they would stop within weeks not months
That's not a solution, it's a fantasy.
A solution needs to be implementable; you couldn't implement this, nor could anyone in government.
You might as well say 'wave a magic wand and zap them back to wherever they came from'.
Which party do Red Wall voters trust the most on...? (Conservative | Labour)
Ukraine (32% | 28%) Pandemic (32% | 30%) The Economy (29% | 33%) The NHS (22% | 41%) Immigration (21% | 32%) Levelling Up (17% | 39%)
Whomp whomp
The most interesting figure is the immigration one. Pretty astonishing for Labour to have an 11 point lead on that in the Red Wall, I'd have thought.
Yes that's what struck me too. I don't see an obvious reason for it tbh.
The dinghy people
The Tories have totally failed. Maybe Labour can do better?
Labour can’t do better. They will do worse, probably. But they are unproven. That’s it
I don't have a better theory for that Labour lead on immigration but why on earth would Redwall voters be hugely exercised about dinghy people?
I can understand voters in Dover, Folkestone and along what we must now call the Costa del Soilpipe, being alarmed by it, but Bolsover and Walsall?
Because they're paying attention to it?
Why wouldn't they?
It's passed me by. And the BBC news website.
Ok, I've just found it halfway down the Daily Heil's website. The numbers are shocking and depressing. The Rwanda policy has clearly achieved fuck-all.
I’m frankly amazed that a low-info low-mid-IQ incurious elderly PB left winger who only reads the Guardian and the BBC has only now discovered the channel migrant problem. Phenomenal
It's very low down the list of problems this country faces right now.
You've got to admire the government's latest plan to deter boat migrants though: pumping shit at them.
Right now Italy is about to vote for a hard right ex fascist government largely because of years of illegal immigration overseas from north Africa. This migration has now impacted Italian society and is very visible in the cities
At its peak Italy took about 1500-2000 migrant boat people a day
Britain is now up to 1300 a day
Honestly. Lefties are dangerously delusional if they think this won’t deeply impact our politics someway down the line. It will
Not being able to afford heating is going to hit most people first.
That’s like saying the blast will hit people before the radiation
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
Sooner or later the refugee convention is going to get torn up because it's too easy to abuse in a world of 8 billion people and easy international travel.
So what is the answer? People want to cross the Channel. And people will provide the service. It's a market. Any interference is Socialism.
Socialism is collective ownership of the means of production. It is not territorial defence.
No it isn't. It's any kind of interference with the "invisible hand". If you wish to adopt a more social democratic view of the role of the market then be my welcome guest.
This is a very revisionist definition. Do you think Elizabeth I was a socialist?
Isn't the answer to the illegal economic immigrant problem a huge crackdown on those who employ and house them?
This will cause short term extreme hardship as people are turfed out on the street. We'd have to slowly offer people already here a route to citizenship, too. But that's the only long term solution, right?
I'm being careful not to confuse this with legitimate refugees, who we should be picking up as close to "source" as possible.
Offer citizenship for those who grass their illegal employers.
I think the shortlist is between Ireland, Canada, Sweden, and France.
Great shortlist.
Sweden is fantastic. I could easily see myself in Ireland or France (we very nearly moved to Dublin a few years ago; and we are both Francophiles). Canada may be on the horizon for one of the children, which I’m very comfortable about.
We are at that stage in life where we are very seriously looking to retirement. We are agreed on the basic pattern: Swedish summers (which are simply exquisite) and Mediterranean rest of the year. Only debate is where? Greece look a big step up the charts thanks to a stellar 2022 performance.
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
And you’re a pissed up late middle-aged man looking for an online argument. These people are coming over from France. In the absence of some kind of deal with the French they will carry on doing so. The current UK government is incapable of agreeing one because it sees any kind of compromise with Europeans as surrender. Other governments may well be less ideological.
This is nothing to do with Brexit or France. You’re an imbecile
It just started right after Brexit. Total coincidence. Not in any way related - oh no.
I’ve just glanced the front pages, the Telegraph looks best for actual news - fears support for Ukraine is flagging is the lead. This is good, my Dad gets Telegraph delivered so I can read that at breaky
But my eye was caught by the first of their little “click bait” type ones at bottom - people smugglers offer free bus ride from southern med to the English Channel. What we are up against here isn’t smuggling gangs exploiting an existing opportunity, but their business model likely encourages it to start with - if they are laying on free buses across Europe they are likely filling heads heads with stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain.
Aren't they just buccaneering entrepreneurs? Offering services to willing consumers? Really great to see you back btw.
Thanks.
I suspect now, now I know the buses are laid on from their recruiting centres, they create the custom for their business, and that thought makes me mad. Are they getting customers by filling their heads with a fiction, a fantasy? stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain? Grrrrrrr. 😖
Oooh! Capitalists filling the heads of the unwary with unobtainable goals? Whatever next?
Sort of talking of which, is Gordon worth sixty million?
Just watched the latest trailer for the Amazon Lord of the Rings show. Is there anybody who actually thinks this won't be anything other than absolutely terrible?
I’m looking forward to it! The trailers are great. The writing looks strong and wide ranging. They have borrowed music and look feel from the film series.
Week Friday. Will we get all at once or will the ration us
I didn’t like the rationing of better call Saul at end ruined it for me, though the ending was strong.
Far too glossy. Something about the lighting? A mistake the Hobbit and the new Star Wars made.
The 20 year old LotR trilogy looks better than this.
Wow. That is really into it, put ff by the glossy lighting.
For most people It will probably stand or fall on the quality of writing - story, character development and dialogue. I’m hopeful.
Good to see a real Balrog again.
Is that why Balrog hasn’t been posting, it’s been filming, attending publicity events etc?
Yeah, basically. How TV and film look, feel and sound is really important to me - why I love Stranger Things, for example.
High quality production and acting can make even atrociously written schlock (like the first season of Westworld) seem classy. Character and story needed long term though.
I was worried about LoTR as a TV show when I heard they would not be able to depart from a strict lore, which is rather constraining. I suspect it will be fantastic looking but dull, but with low expectations stand a good chance of being pleasantly surprised.
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
What's your solution then smartarse?
Rwanda. Fly them to a deeply depressing but safe third country. Do this for every single dinghy immigrant for about six months. No appeal. Nothing. Just do it. Catch them all and do it
Then the boats would stop. Completely. My guess is they would stop within weeks not months
That's not a solution, it's a fantasy.
A solution needs to be implementable; you couldn't implement this, nor could anyone in government.
You might as well say 'wave a magic wand and zap them back to wherever they came from'.
No. I’m offering an actual solution. Which you are incapable of doing
Catch them all (as things stand this is still possible; if we wait, it won’t - too many will come)
Fly them all out to some grim but safe 3rd country. Eg Rwanda. If lawyers object change the law. If the ECHR objects leave the ECHR. This is our island with our law
The deterrent will then work if you do it for long enough. We know this from Australia where it worked
This will be shit for those sent to Rwanda. But it will save many lives from drowning and it will satisfy the British voter and it will save us from a quasi fascist government (which will just sink the boats) and it will quickly stop the evil traffickers anyway via deterrence
Or we just give up and let them all come. Which is the Labour policy. Them’s the choices. There are no others. Choose
I’ve just glanced the front pages, the Telegraph looks best for actual news - fears support for Ukraine is flagging is the lead. This is good, my Dad gets Telegraph delivered so I can read that at breaky
But my eye was caught by the first of their little “click bait” type ones at bottom - people smugglers offer free bus ride from southern med to the English Channel. What we are up against here isn’t smuggling gangs exploiting an existing opportunity, but their business model likely encourages it to start with - if they are laying on free buses across Europe they are likely filling heads heads with stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain.
Aren't they just buccaneering entrepreneurs? Offering services to willing consumers? Really great to see you back btw.
They’re nasty pieces of work. My parents had an Iranian family round to lunch this weekend - 2 parents and a precociously bright 10 year old girl - who arrived in Britain earlier this year on one of those dinghies. They are staying at the local reception centre while their asylum claims are dealt with, and had just got confirmed at the local parish church so they are now Iranian anglicans.
They had to leave Iran in a hurry as the father had converted to Christianity, was found out and was about to be arrested and god knows what else for Apostasy which I think is a capital offence. Left with nothing but some cash and some jewellery, much of which they spent with the people traffickers to get them to Britain after an impressive odyssey across various borders (why Britain you ask? Like most others making the calculation, because he already had a brother and other relatives here versus no support network elsewhere).
As they were boarding the boat the traffickers took away all their remaining possessions, leaving them to arrive with nothing. OK these people provide a service desperate people will pay for, but they are essentially criminal scum.
Because there is no way of legally applying for asylum.
I’ve just glanced the front pages, the Telegraph looks best for actual news - fears support for Ukraine is flagging is the lead. This is good, my Dad gets Telegraph delivered so I can read that at breaky
But my eye was caught by the first of their little “click bait” type ones at bottom - people smugglers offer free bus ride from southern med to the English Channel. What we are up against here isn’t smuggling gangs exploiting an existing opportunity, but their business model likely encourages it to start with - if they are laying on free buses across Europe they are likely filling heads heads with stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain.
Aren't they just buccaneering entrepreneurs? Offering services to willing consumers? Really great to see you back btw.
Thanks.
I suspect now, now I know the buses are laid on from their recruiting centres, they create the custom for their business, and that thought makes me mad. Are they getting customers by filling their heads with a fiction, a fantasy? stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain? Grrrrrrr. 😖
Oooh! Capitalists filling the heads of the unwary with unobtainable goals? Whatever next?
Sort of talking of which, is Gordon worth sixty million?
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
And you’re a pissed up late middle-aged man looking for an online argument. These people are coming over from France. In the absence of some kind of deal with the French they will carry on doing so. The current UK government is incapable of agreeing one because it sees any kind of compromise with Europeans as surrender. Other governments may well be less ideological.
This is nothing to do with Brexit or France. You’re an imbecile
It just started right after Brexit. Total coincidence. Not in any way related - oh no.
Your awareness of it might have started right after Brexit but the problem is much older. Have you forgotten things like David Cameron being harangued for talking about a "bunch of migrants"?
The key reason Sweden did better during the pandemic is little to do with population density or that we are incorrigibly anti-social.
It is to to with the independence of government agencies and the innate respect that most of the population has for the state, regional and local governments and other public agencies.
On the schools point, it was only children 15+ who were, relatively briefly, prohibited from attending school physically. Children suffered *much* less than in the rest of Europe. That we favour our young over our old is one of the greatest triumphs, and the greatest tragedies, of modern Swedish society.
You didn't do better. Compared to your neighbours you did far worse. Now extremists like Bart - typical of those who know the price of everything and the value of nothing - seem to think this was a price worth paying but most reasonable people would disagree with him.
Depends on what you mean by “better”?
If you mean minimising the long term damage to society and the economy, then yes, Sweden did better. A lot better.
Sweden was playing the long game. Most of the rest of the world was running about like a headless chicken.
One shudders to think what’s going to happen when a *real* killer pandemic shows up.
Everyone in Sweden will die. Because you will continue to believe that what you did last time was the right way to go.
You see, this is where you have *totally* misunderstood Swedish society, stamina and respect for independent governmental agencies.
Covid = take care
Real killer pandemic (2035?) = lockdown max = unpleasant, but hey we survived
Swedes will manage both. No probs.
Whereas I suspect that for most countries:
Covid = headless chicken lockdown
Real killer pandemic (2035?) = headless chicken disrespect for government = all fall down
Quite possibly right.
Once bitten, twice shy. I for one won't be prepared to show respect to a future government wanting to strip us of our liberties again. I'm sure others feel the same.
And yours is a perfectly human, and common reaction: once fooled, twice shy.
The Swedish populace were not fooled. Our government and governmental agencies were pretty straight with us. We listened, we digested, we (largely) behaved ourselves.
Ditto when the real killer pandemic comes. (And it will.)
The English populace on the other hand were led by total donkeys. The real damage to English society will only become truly apparent when the real pandemic arrives. You’ll mostly tell them to go fuck themselves. Before promptly croaking it.
I think this is bollocks. The big reason why COVID was quite divisive was the age profile of the people affected. If another pandemic turns up that starts bumping off children, you can be certain that we'll all go like Matt Damon in that film.
Another age profile, say one that disproportionately cut down pre-pubescents?
Same principle: I really do believe that Sweden will handle it far better than England. It is a structural issue: confidence in public authorities is totally shot in England.
It is one reason why Scots are so attracted by the Nordic/Baltic model: create wealth, spread it around, build trust in public institutions.
It’s not rocket science.
And come Ebola VIII it might just make the difference between survival and extinction.
I am not sure there is much trust in Scottish public institutions at the moment.
Perhaps not, but there is more trust in Scottish public institutions than in British public institutions.
Net favourability:
Scottish National Party +5 Scottish Green Party +/-0 Labour -3 Liberal Democrats -13 Conservatives -38
Do you think Nicola managed to empty her bin this week?
There is a bitter blame game going on over this. I think it's arguable both ways - looks like council in Edinburgh messed up by going way too low as a first offer, losing the PR war.
But it's about to spread to other councils as the cash made available by SG isn't enough to cover Union demands. And the pay offer in England is better (apparently), so the unions can just refer to that. The councils claim that they've been underfunded for decades and have no room to maneuver.
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
And you’re a pissed up late middle-aged man looking for an online argument. These people are coming over from France. In the absence of some kind of deal with the French they will carry on doing so. The current UK government is incapable of agreeing one because it sees any kind of compromise with Europeans as surrender. Other governments may well be less ideological.
This is nothing to do with Brexit or France. You’re an imbecile
It just started right after Brexit. Total coincidence. Not in any way related - oh no.
Your awareness of it might have started right after Brexit but the problem is much older. Have you forgotten things like David Cameron being harangued for talking about a "bunch of migrants"?
I believe many pearls were clutched and vapours suffered because he referred to 'swarming'. Oh, the horror! Clearly use of a single word meant he regarded them like bugs, or some such nonsense.
Honestly. Lefties are dangerously delusional if they think this won’t deeply impact our politics someway down the line. It will
Not being able to afford heating is going to hit most people first.
The crossings will stop quite soon as the weather gets worse and the days grow shorter. Other diversions from the cost of living crisis will be required.
I’ve just glanced the front pages, the Telegraph looks best for actual news - fears support for Ukraine is flagging is the lead. This is good, my Dad gets Telegraph delivered so I can read that at breaky
But my eye was caught by the first of their little “click bait” type ones at bottom - people smugglers offer free bus ride from southern med to the English Channel. What we are up against here isn’t smuggling gangs exploiting an existing opportunity, but their business model likely encourages it to start with - if they are laying on free buses across Europe they are likely filling heads heads with stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain.
Aren't they just buccaneering entrepreneurs? Offering services to willing consumers? Really great to see you back btw.
Thanks.
I suspect now, now I know the buses are laid on from their recruiting centres, they create the custom for their business, and that thought makes me mad. Are they getting customers by filling their heads with a fiction, a fantasy? stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain? Grrrrrrr. 😖
Oooh! Capitalists filling the heads of the unwary with unobtainable goals? Whatever next?
Sort of talking of which, is Gordon worth sixty million?
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
Sooner or later the refugee convention is going to get torn up because it's too easy to abuse in a world of 8 billion people and easy international travel.
So what is the answer? People want to cross the Channel. And people will provide the service. It's a market. Any interference is Socialism.
Socialism is collective ownership of the means of production. It is not territorial defence.
No it isn't. It's any kind of interference with the "invisible hand". If you wish to adopt a more social democratic view of the role of the market then be my welcome guest.
This is a very revisionist definition. Do you think Elizabeth I was a socialist?
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
What's your solution then smartarse?
Rwanda. Fly them to a deeply depressing but safe third country. Do this for every single dinghy immigrant for about six months. No appeal. Nothing. Just do it. Catch them all and do it
Then the boats would stop. Completely. My guess is they would stop within weeks not months
That's not a solution, it's a fantasy.
A solution needs to be implementable; you couldn't implement this, nor could anyone in government.
You might as well say 'wave a magic wand and zap them back to wherever they came from'.
You might be right, but WHY isn't it implementable though ? There's nothing that breaks the laws of physics about sending people to Rwanda.
The key reason Sweden did better during the pandemic is little to do with population density or that we are incorrigibly anti-social.
It is to to with the independence of government agencies and the innate respect that most of the population has for the state, regional and local governments and other public agencies.
On the schools point, it was only children 15+ who were, relatively briefly, prohibited from attending school physically. Children suffered *much* less than in the rest of Europe. That we favour our young over our old is one of the greatest triumphs, and the greatest tragedies, of modern Swedish society.
You didn't do better. Compared to your neighbours you did far worse. Now extremists like Bart - typical of those who know the price of everything and the value of nothing - seem to think this was a price worth paying but most reasonable people would disagree with him.
Depends on what you mean by “better”?
If you mean minimising the long term damage to society and the economy, then yes, Sweden did better. A lot better.
Sweden was playing the long game. Most of the rest of the world was running about like a headless chicken.
One shudders to think what’s going to happen when a *real* killer pandemic shows up.
Everyone in Sweden will die. Because you will continue to believe that what you did last time was the right way to go.
You see, this is where you have *totally* misunderstood Swedish society, stamina and respect for independent governmental agencies.
Covid = take care
Real killer pandemic (2035?) = lockdown max = unpleasant, but hey we survived
Swedes will manage both. No probs.
Whereas I suspect that for most countries:
Covid = headless chicken lockdown
Real killer pandemic (2035?) = headless chicken disrespect for government = all fall down
Quite possibly right.
Once bitten, twice shy. I for one won't be prepared to show respect to a future government wanting to strip us of our liberties again. I'm sure others feel the same.
And yours is a perfectly human, and common reaction: once fooled, twice shy.
The Swedish populace were not fooled. Our government and governmental agencies were pretty straight with us. We listened, we digested, we (largely) behaved ourselves.
Ditto when the real killer pandemic comes. (And it will.)
The English populace on the other hand were led by total donkeys. The real damage to English society will only become truly apparent when the real pandemic arrives. You’ll mostly tell them to go fuck themselves. Before promptly croaking it.
I think this is bollocks. The big reason why COVID was quite divisive was the age profile of the people affected. If another pandemic turns up that starts bumping off children, you can be certain that we'll all go like Matt Damon in that film.
Another age profile, say one that disproportionately cut down pre-pubescents?
Same principle: I really do believe that Sweden will handle it far better than England. It is a structural issue: confidence in public authorities is totally shot in England.
It is one reason why Scots are so attracted by the Nordic/Baltic model: create wealth, spread it around, build trust in public institutions.
It’s not rocket science.
And come Ebola VIII it might just make the difference between survival and extinction.
I am not sure there is much trust in Scottish public institutions at the moment.
Perhaps not, but there is more trust in Scottish public institutions than in British public institutions.
Net favourability:
Scottish National Party +5 Scottish Green Party +/-0 Labour -3 Liberal Democrats -13 Conservatives -38
I just wanted to address your question: if there are limited opportunities for shale gas in the UK, why are Cuadrilla and iGas still going on about it?
It's because they wish to receive compensation from the government. They wish people to believe that it is only because if the capricious nature of the government ban, that they are unable to extract gas.
But let me give you some numbers that should give you a clue as to how successful iGas's wells have been.
In 2005, when the deposits were first announced and iGas floated as the best way to benefit from them, its share price was (on a split adjusted basis) £115.
By 2019, when fracking was banned, it's share price had fallen to 89p. It had lost - before any banning of fracking - more than 99% of its value.
Why? Because when they drilled a well in late 2018 at Tinker Lane, in Nottinghamshire, the shales simply weren't productive. And this was just the latest in a series of wells that failed to find commercial levels of gas.
Which party do Red Wall voters trust the most on...? (Conservative | Labour)
Ukraine (32% | 28%) Pandemic (32% | 30%) The Economy (29% | 33%) The NHS (22% | 41%) Immigration (21% | 32%) Levelling Up (17% | 39%)
Whomp whomp
The most interesting figure is the immigration one. Pretty astonishing for Labour to have an 11 point lead on that in the Red Wall, I'd have thought.
Yes that's what struck me too. I don't see an obvious reason for it tbh.
The dinghy people
The Tories have totally failed. Maybe Labour can do better?
Labour can’t do better. They will do worse, probably. But they are unproven. That’s it
I don't have a better theory for that Labour lead on immigration but why on earth would Redwall voters be hugely exercised about dinghy people?
I can understand voters in Dover, Folkestone and along what we must now call the Costa del Soilpipe, being alarmed by it, but Bolsover and Walsall?
Because they're paying attention to it?
Why wouldn't they?
It's passed me by. And the BBC news website.
Ok, I've just found it halfway down the Daily Heil's website. The numbers are shocking and depressing. The Rwanda policy has clearly achieved fuck-all.
I’m frankly amazed that a low-info low-mid-IQ incurious elderly PB left winger who only reads the Guardian and the BBC has only now discovered the channel migrant problem. Phenomenal
It's very low down the list of problems this country faces right now.
You've got to admire the government's latest plan to deter boat migrants though: pumping shit at them.
Right now Italy is about to vote for a hard right ex fascist government largely because of years of illegal immigration overseas from north Africa. This migration has now impacted Italian society and is very visible in the cities
At its peak Italy took about 1500-2000 migrant boat people a day
Britain is now up to 1300 a day
Honestly. Lefties are dangerously delusional if they think this won’t deeply impact our politics someway down the line. It will
Not being able to afford heating is going to hit most people first.
That’s like saying the blast will hit people before the radiation
That's a completely shit simile even by your standards.
Blast and radiation - same source, same cause.
Freezing in your own home and illegal boat immigrants - totally unrelated.
"Don't worry about us freezing to death, just focus on sending the boat people to Rwanda."
By the way the stories of the people at the reception centre are fascinating.
Most were fleeing some form of official persecution but often this was quite local - more like getting on the wrong side of the district mafia, who just happen to be the local police force or militia. This seems to be the case in places like Sudan, Libya, Eritrea, Iraq. Others were religious refugees, particularly Christians in Muslim countries including our Iranian family. Some were simply displaced by war or low level sectarian conflict that had destroyed their homes - Syria, Somalia etc. A surprising number have come by boat or as stowaways. Most have family or friends in the UK.
Most are unable to work during the claim period and there’s a spectrum between those who are naturally resilient and sociable and are volunteering in the community, going out and making friends and so on, and others who seem to have withdrawn into a deep depression. Not sure which group I’d end up in if I had the same experience.
I think the shortlist is between Ireland, Canada, Sweden, and France.
Great shortlist.
Sweden is fantastic. I could easily see myself in Ireland or France (we very nearly moved to Dublin a few years ago; and we are both Francophiles). Canada may be on the horizon for one of the children, which I’m very comfortable about.
We are at that stage in life where we are very seriously looking to retirement. We are agreed on the basic pattern: Swedish summers (which are simply exquisite) and Mediterranean rest of the year. Only debate is where? Greece look a big step up the charts thanks to a stellar 2022 performance.
I'd have thought an independent Scotland, 365 days a year. Tiree is sunny.
In fact I challenge you to do it if we vote Yes/leave. Leave the herring and schnapps behind.
I’ve just glanced the front pages, the Telegraph looks best for actual news - fears support for Ukraine is flagging is the lead. This is good, my Dad gets Telegraph delivered so I can read that at breaky
But my eye was caught by the first of their little “click bait” type ones at bottom - people smugglers offer free bus ride from southern med to the English Channel. What we are up against here isn’t smuggling gangs exploiting an existing opportunity, but their business model likely encourages it to start with - if they are laying on free buses across Europe they are likely filling heads heads with stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain.
Aren't they just buccaneering entrepreneurs? Offering services to willing consumers? Really great to see you back btw.
Thanks.
I suspect now, now I know the buses are laid on from their recruiting centres, they create the custom for their business, and that thought makes me mad. Are they getting customers by filling their heads with a fiction, a fantasy? stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain? Grrrrrrr. 😖
Oooh! Capitalists filling the heads of the unwary with unobtainable goals? Whatever next?
Sort of talking of which, is Gordon worth sixty million?
I’ve just glanced the front pages, the Telegraph looks best for actual news - fears support for Ukraine is flagging is the lead. This is good, my Dad gets Telegraph delivered so I can read that at breaky
But my eye was caught by the first of their little “click bait” type ones at bottom - people smugglers offer free bus ride from southern med to the English Channel. What we are up against here isn’t smuggling gangs exploiting an existing opportunity, but their business model likely encourages it to start with - if they are laying on free buses across Europe they are likely filling heads heads with stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain.
Aren't they just buccaneering entrepreneurs? Offering services to willing consumers? Really great to see you back btw.
They’re nasty pieces of work. My parents had an Iranian family round to lunch this weekend - 2 parents and a precociously bright 10 year old girl - who arrived in Britain earlier this year on one of those dinghies. They are staying at the local reception centre while their asylum claims are dealt with, and had just got confirmed at the local parish church so they are now Iranian anglicans.
They had to leave Iran in a hurry as the father had converted to Christianity, was found out and was about to be arrested and god knows what else for Apostasy which I think is a capital offence. Left with nothing but some cash and some jewellery, much of which they spent with the people traffickers to get them to Britain after an impressive odyssey across various borders (why Britain you ask? Like most others making the calculation, because he already had a brother and other relatives here versus no support network elsewhere).
As they were boarding the boat the traffickers took away all their remaining possessions, leaving them to arrive with nothing. OK these people provide a service desperate people will pay for, but they are essentially criminal scum.
Because there is no way of legally applying for asylum.
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
What's your solution then smartarse?
Rwanda. Fly them to a deeply depressing but safe third country. Do this for every single dinghy immigrant for about six months. No appeal. Nothing. Just do it. Catch them all and do it
Then the boats would stop. Completely. My guess is they would stop within weeks not months
That's not a solution, it's a fantasy.
A solution needs to be implementable; you couldn't implement this, nor could anyone in government.
You might as well say 'wave a magic wand and zap them back to wherever they came from'.
You might be right, but WHY isn't it implementable though ? There's nothing that breaks the laws of physics about sending people to Rwanda.
Why can't @Leon's proposal of flying 'every single dinghy immigrant for about six months' to Rwanda be implemented?
1. Rwanda won't take them 2. Airlines won't fly them 3. People won't work for the agencies executing the policy. 4. Public opinion would not stand for it. 5... etc.
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
And you’re a pissed up late middle-aged man looking for an online argument. These people are coming over from France. In the absence of some kind of deal with the French they will carry on doing so. The current UK government is incapable of agreeing one because it sees any kind of compromise with Europeans as surrender. Other governments may well be less ideological.
This is nothing to do with Brexit or France. You’re an imbecile
It just started right after Brexit. Total coincidence. Not in any way related - oh no.
Your awareness of it might have started right after Brexit but the problem is much older. Have you forgotten things like David Cameron being harangued for talking about a "bunch of migrants"?
A Spanish mate of mine and his Irish wife moved from Terrasa in Catalonia to Dublin just over a year ago. They’re back in Catalonia now. They said Ireland has a housing crisis every bit as bad as the one in southern England and healthcare is expensive. Infrastructure is also lacking in many places. I have no idea, but they decided it’s a great place to visit but it’s a tough place to build a life if you are not financially well set.
I just wanted to address your question: if there are limited opportunities for shale gas in the UK, why are Cuadrilla and iGas still going on about it?
It's because they wish to receive compensation from the government. They wish people to believe that it is only because if the capricious nature of the government ban, that they are unable to extract gas.
But let me give you some numbers that should give you a clue as to how successful iGas's wells have been.
In 2005, when the deposits were first announced and iGas floated as the best way to benefit from them, its share price was (on a split adjusted basis) £115.
By 2019, when fracking was banned, it's share price had fallen to 89p. It had lost - before any banning of fracking - more than 99% of its value.
Why? Because when they drilled a well in late 2018 at Tinker Lane, in Nottinghamshire, the shales simply weren't productive. And this was just the latest in a series of wells that failed to find commercial levels of gas.
Interesting, the relevant license PEDL200 is right underneath my feet and came up in myhouse search.
“About 4,000-5,000 Ukrainians are arriving in the UK each week, Harrington told the Financial Times, who said he was working with non-profit groups to find new hosts…”
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
And you’re a pissed up late middle-aged man looking for an online argument. These people are coming over from France. In the absence of some kind of deal with the French they will carry on doing so. The current UK government is incapable of agreeing one because it sees any kind of compromise with Europeans as surrender. Other governments may well be less ideological.
This is nothing to do with Brexit or France. You’re an imbecile
It just started right after Brexit. Total coincidence. Not in any way related - oh no.
Your awareness of it might have started right after Brexit but the problem is much older. Have you forgotten things like David Cameron being harangued for talking about a "bunch of migrants"?
To be fair to Ben, didn’t Cameron have an arrangement the French said would end with Brexit - they threatened we would be dealing with the problem on our beaches instead of their beaches?
“About 4,000-5,000 Ukrainians are arriving in the UK each week, Harrington told the Financial Times, who said he was working with non-profit groups to find new hosts…”
“About 4,000-5,000 Ukrainians are arriving in the UK each week, Harrington told the Financial Times, who said he was working with non-profit groups to find new hosts…”
Really?!
That’s 250,000 Ukes a year
Lots of new Tory voters, as they are being allowed to build new lives here 😇
There is an ongoing problem decently housing them all at the moment though isn’t there?
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
What's your solution then smartarse?
Rwanda. Fly them to a deeply depressing but safe third country. Do this for every single dinghy immigrant for about six months. No appeal. Nothing. Just do it. Catch them all and do it
Then the boats would stop. Completely. My guess is they would stop within weeks not months
That's not a solution, it's a fantasy.
A solution needs to be implementable; you couldn't implement this, nor could anyone in government.
You might as well say 'wave a magic wand and zap them back to wherever they came from'.
You might be right, but WHY isn't it implementable though ? There's nothing that breaks the laws of physics about sending people to Rwanda.
Why can't @Leon's proposal of flying 'every single dinghy immigrant for about six months' to Rwanda be implemented?
1. Rwanda won't take them 2. Airlines won't fly them 3. People won't work for the agencies executing the policy. 4. Public opinion would not stand for it. 5... etc.
1. Simply isn't true, we're paying Rwanda plenty of cash to take people. They'll get paid even more when they take some ! 2. There was an airline prepared to fly people out before the courts stopped it. 3. There'll be people willing to do the work, if you join something like G4S or Serco you're expecting to do the gov'ts work. 4. Public opinion is split on the matter, most don't care about it; some in favour, some against.
Sorry but I think "It can't be done" is code for "I think it's utterly ghastly".
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
And you’re a pissed up late middle-aged man looking for an online argument. These people are coming over from France. In the absence of some kind of deal with the French they will carry on doing so. The current UK government is incapable of agreeing one because it sees any kind of compromise with Europeans as surrender. Other governments may well be less ideological.
This is nothing to do with Brexit or France. You’re an imbecile
It just started right after Brexit. Total coincidence. Not in any way related - oh no.
Your awareness of it might have started right after Brexit but the problem is much older. Have you forgotten things like David Cameron being harangued for talking about a "bunch of migrants"?
It’s nothing to do with Brexit. It’s because we successfully closed down the Channel Tunnel route around that time and then the traffickers realised - whoah, the Channel is just 20 miles wide
Look at cross-Med migration to Italy. Much longer distance, many die, most make it
“About 4,000-5,000 Ukrainians are arriving in the UK each week, Harrington told the Financial Times, who said he was working with non-profit groups to find new hosts…”
“About 4,000-5,000 Ukrainians are arriving in the UK each week, Harrington told the Financial Times, who said he was working with non-profit groups to find new hosts…”
Really?!
That’s 250,000 Ukes a year
Seems awfully high if that is sustained, even with everything that has been going on. I know the UK is now more popular with Ukrainians, but it isn't as though there was a large number of their compatriots here pre-war, which one presumes influences where people head towards.
On a similar matter, I think something like 100k visas have been approved thus far for Hong Kongers to emigrate, though how many have who knows.
I think the shortlist is between Ireland, Canada, Sweden, and France.
Great shortlist.
Sweden is fantastic. I could easily see myself in Ireland or France (we very nearly moved to Dublin a few years ago; and we are both Francophiles). Canada may be on the horizon for one of the children, which I’m very comfortable about.
We are at that stage in life where we are very seriously looking to retirement. We are agreed on the basic pattern: Swedish summers (which are simply exquisite) and Mediterranean rest of the year. Only debate is where? Greece look a big step up the charts thanks to a stellar 2022 performance.
I'd have thought an independent Scotland, 365 days a year. Tiree is sunny.
In fact I challenge you to do it if we vote Yes/leave. Leave the herring and schnapps behind.
You’re a mind reader!
Tiree has always been very high up on my bolt hole shortlist. Terrific little microclimate. Fewer midgies than most places in the west; and, crucially for us, an airport. (Time is a commodity in short supply.)
The thing is though, I am a member of a Union. A voluntary union. And my beautiful life partner does not always have identical inclinations as my good self. She is addicted to sun and warmth, and allergic to rural environments.
We do have, and will continue to have, property in Scotland, but our time there is unlikely to exceed a couple of months a year. We’ll see. Attitudes can and do change, thank goodness!
But why would I have to abandon herring?!? It is just as Scottish as it is Swedish.
I can’t stand spirits: akvavit/brännvin (note: not “schnapps” in the Nordic countries), whisky, cognac, grappa, tequila, ouzo, rum, vodka … all bloody dreadful stuff.
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
And you’re a pissed up late middle-aged man looking for an online argument. These people are coming over from France. In the absence of some kind of deal with the French they will carry on doing so. The current UK government is incapable of agreeing one because it sees any kind of compromise with Europeans as surrender. Other governments may well be less ideological.
This is nothing to do with Brexit or France. You’re an imbecile
It just started right after Brexit. Total coincidence. Not in any way related - oh no.
Your awareness of it might have started right after Brexit but the problem is much older. Have you forgotten things like David Cameron being harangued for talking about a "bunch of migrants"?
It’s nothing to do with Brexit. It’s because we successfully closed down the Channel Tunnel route around that time and then the traffickers realised - whoah, the Channel is just 20 miles wide
Look at cross-Med migration to Italy. Much longer distance, many die, most make it
Same principle
...same lack of cooperation between the departing shore and the destination.
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
What's your solution then smartarse?
Rwanda. Fly them to a deeply depressing but safe third country. Do this for every single dinghy immigrant for about six months. No appeal. Nothing. Just do it. Catch them all and do it
Then the boats would stop. Completely. My guess is they would stop within weeks not months
That's not a solution, it's a fantasy.
A solution needs to be implementable; you couldn't implement this, nor could anyone in government.
You might as well say 'wave a magic wand and zap them back to wherever they came from'.
You might be right, but WHY isn't it implementable though ? There's nothing that breaks the laws of physics about sending people to Rwanda.
Why can't @Leon's proposal of flying 'every single dinghy immigrant for about six months' to Rwanda be implemented?
1. Rwanda won't take them 2. Airlines won't fly them 3. People won't work for the agencies executing the policy. 4. Public opinion would not stand for it. 5... etc.
1. Simply isn't true, we're paying Rwanda plenty of cash to take people. They'll get paid even more when they take some ! 2. There was an airline prepared to fly people out before the courts stopped it. 3. There'll be people willing to do the work, if you join something like G4S or Serco you're expecting to do the gov'ts work. 4. Public opinion is split on the matter, most don't care about it; some in favour, some against.
The list was in response to a solution to fly 'everyone' arriving in a dinghy for six whole months, and with no appeal either. That probably alters at least some of those considerations, be their financial, moral or legal - all of which would seem to be aggravated significantly from the existing policy intention.
Since you've pointed out there were problems of implementation already via the courts, and a split in public opinion, it seems reasonable to suggest implementation would be even more difficult with such an increase in the policy.
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
What's your solution then smartarse?
Rwanda. Fly them to a deeply depressing but safe third country. Do this for every single dinghy immigrant for about six months. No appeal. Nothing. Just do it. Catch them all and do it
Then the boats would stop. Completely. My guess is they would stop within weeks not months
That's not a solution, it's a fantasy.
A solution needs to be implementable; you couldn't implement this, nor could anyone in government.
You might as well say 'wave a magic wand and zap them back to wherever they came from'.
You might be right, but WHY isn't it implementable though ? There's nothing that breaks the laws of physics about sending people to Rwanda.
Why can't @Leon's proposal of flying 'every single dinghy immigrant for about six months' to Rwanda be implemented?
1. Rwanda won't take them 2. Airlines won't fly them 3. People won't work for the agencies executing the policy. 4. Public opinion would not stand for it. 5... etc.
1. Simply isn't true, we're paying Rwanda plenty of cash to take people. They'll get paid even more when they take some ! 2. There was an airline prepared to fly people out before the courts stopped it. 3. There'll be people willing to do the work, if you join something like G4S or Serco you're expecting to do the gov'ts work. 4. Public opinion is split on the matter, most don't care about it; some in favour, some against.
Sorry but I think "It can't be done" is code for "I think it's utterly ghastly".
I think the shortlist is between Ireland, Canada, Sweden, and France.
Great shortlist.
Sweden is fantastic. I could easily see myself in Ireland or France (we very nearly moved to Dublin a few years ago; and we are both Francophiles). Canada may be on the horizon for one of the children, which I’m very comfortable about.
We are at that stage in life where we are very seriously looking to retirement. We are agreed on the basic pattern: Swedish summers (which are simply exquisite) and Mediterranean rest of the year. Only debate is where? Greece look a big step up the charts thanks to a stellar 2022 performance.
I'd have thought an independent Scotland, 365 days a year. Tiree is sunny.
In fact I challenge you to do it if we vote Yes/leave. Leave the herring and schnapps behind.
You’re a mind reader!
Tiree has always been very high up on my bolt hole shortlist. Terrific little microclimate. Fewer midgies than most places in the west; and, crucially for us, an airport. (Time is a commodity in short supply.)
The thing is though, I am a member of a Union. A voluntary union. And my beautiful life partner does not always have identical inclinations as my good self. She is addicted to sun and warmth, and allergic to rural environments.
We do have, and will continue to have, property in Scotland, but our time there is unlikely to exceed a couple of months a year. We’ll see. Attitudes can and do change, thank goodness!
But why would I have to abandon herring?!? It is just as Scottish as it is Swedish.
I can’t stand spirits: akvavit/brännvin (note: not “schnapps” in the Nordic countries), whisky, cognac, grappa, tequila, ouzo, rum, vodka … all bloody dreadful stuff.
Ahahahaha
And thus PB’s 7th most famous Scot nat reveals why he could never, actually, live in Scotland
“About 4,000-5,000 Ukrainians are arriving in the UK each week, Harrington told the Financial Times, who said he was working with non-profit groups to find new hosts…”
Really?!
That’s 250,000 Ukes a year
You'll be sticking them on the Rwanda shuttle.
No. Cheekbones
The Ukrainians who moved into the flat upstairs are minted. Currently doing a full refurb and have a brand new electric SUV.
Told me in perfect English that they'll live here until Kyiv is safe or move to London.
I think the shortlist is between Ireland, Canada, Sweden, and France.
Great shortlist.
Sweden is fantastic. I could easily see myself in Ireland or France (we very nearly moved to Dublin a few years ago; and we are both Francophiles). Canada may be on the horizon for one of the children, which I’m very comfortable about.
We are at that stage in life where we are very seriously looking to retirement. We are agreed on the basic pattern: Swedish summers (which are simply exquisite) and Mediterranean rest of the year. Only debate is where? Greece look a big step up the charts thanks to a stellar 2022 performance.
I'd have thought an independent Scotland, 365 days a year. Tiree is sunny.
In fact I challenge you to do it if we vote Yes/leave. Leave the herring and schnapps behind.
You’re a mind reader!
Tiree has always been very high up on my bolt hole shortlist. Terrific little microclimate. Fewer midgies than most places in the west; and, crucially for us, an airport. (Time is a commodity in short supply.)
The thing is though, I am a member of a Union. A voluntary union. And my beautiful life partner does not always have identical inclinations as my good self. She is addicted to sun and warmth, and allergic to rural environments.
We do have, and will continue to have, property in Scotland, but our time there is unlikely to exceed a couple of months a year. We’ll see. Attitudes can and do change, thank goodness!
But why would I have to abandon herring?!? It is just as Scottish as it is Swedish.
I can’t stand spirits: akvavit/brännvin (note: not “schnapps” in the Nordic countries), whisky, cognac, grappa, tequila, ouzo, rum, vodka … all bloody dreadful stuff.
Huh, interesting. My Swedish friends called it schnapps, must've been for my benefit.
A Spanish mate of mine and his Irish wife moved from Terrasa in Catalonia to Dublin just over a year ago. They’re back in Catalonia now. They said Ireland has a housing crisis every bit as bad as the one in southern England and healthcare is expensive. Infrastructure is also lacking in many places. I have no idea, but they decided it’s a great place to visit but it’s a tough place to build a life if you are not financially well set.
“About 4,000-5,000 Ukrainians are arriving in the UK each week, Harrington told the Financial Times, who said he was working with non-profit groups to find new hosts…”
Really?!
That’s 250,000 Ukes a year
You'll be sticking them on the Rwanda shuttle.
No. Cheekbones
The Ukrainians who moved into the flat upstairs are minted. Currently doing a full refurb and have a brand new electric SUV.
Told me in perfect English that they'll live here until Kyiv is safe or move to London.
They’ll move to london. It’s great for london. And the Uk.
I suspect many/most of the smartest Ukrainian refugees, from across Europe, will end up in london and the SE England
This is a boost for UK plc and an absolute and terrible tragedy for Ukraine. Just Awful
I’ve just glanced the front pages, the Telegraph looks best for actual news - fears support for Ukraine is flagging is the lead. This is good, my Dad gets Telegraph delivered so I can read that at breaky
But my eye was caught by the first of their little “click bait” type ones at bottom - people smugglers offer free bus ride from southern med to the English Channel. What we are up against here isn’t smuggling gangs exploiting an existing opportunity, but their business model likely encourages it to start with - if they are laying on free buses across Europe they are likely filling heads heads with stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain.
Aren't they just buccaneering entrepreneurs? Offering services to willing consumers? Really great to see you back btw.
They’re nasty pieces of work. My parents had an Iranian family round to lunch this weekend - 2 parents and a precociously bright 10 year old girl - who arrived in Britain earlier this year on one of those dinghies. They are staying at the local reception centre while their asylum claims are dealt with, and had just got confirmed at the local parish church so they are now Iranian anglicans.
They had to leave Iran in a hurry as the father had converted to Christianity, was found out and was about to be arrested and god knows what else for Apostasy which I think is a capital offence. Left with nothing but some cash and some jewellery, much of which they spent with the people traffickers to get them to Britain after an impressive odyssey across various borders (why Britain you ask? Like most others making the calculation, because he already had a brother and other relatives here versus no support network elsewhere).
As they were boarding the boat the traffickers took away all their remaining possessions, leaving them to arrive with nothing. OK these people provide a service desperate people will pay for, but they are essentially criminal scum.
"With adequate profit, capital is very bold. A certain 10% will ensure its employment anywhere; 20% certain will produce eagerness; 50%, positive audacity; 100%, will make it ready to trample on all human laws; 300%, and there is not a crime at which it will scruple, nor a risk it will not run, even to the chance of its owner being hanged. If turbulence and strife will bring a profit, it will freely encourage both."
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
Nonsense. It will be solved when all assylum processing for the UK takes place in dedicated overseas centres for the process. They don't need to be in France - in actuality, France isn't a great place for them. There should be no way to claim assylum from the UK, at all. Those who arrive should be transported immediately to an overseas centre. But they should be transported back to the UK upon their claim being validated.
I see Sun says Truss wants Frost as Chief of Staff.
Continuity Johnson on stilts.
Why on earth would any sentient PM want this guy as chief?
A Cabinet of Deplorables.
Just following the standard playbook of the insecure leader - seek to appoint only those manifestly less worthy than yourself, so they cannot outshine you.
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
What's your solution then smartarse?
Rwanda. Fly them to a deeply depressing but safe third country. Do this for every single dinghy immigrant for about six months. No appeal. Nothing. Just do it. Catch them all and do it
Then the boats would stop. Completely. My guess is they would stop within weeks not months
Days.
But the unfair bit of Rwanda is that if they're a genuine claimant they can't come back to the UK. That should be built in.
“About 4,000-5,000 Ukrainians are arriving in the UK each week, Harrington told the Financial Times, who said he was working with non-profit groups to find new hosts…”
Really?!
That’s 250,000 Ukes a year
You'll be sticking them on the Rwanda shuttle.
No. Cheekbones
The Ukrainians who moved into the flat upstairs are minted. Currently doing a full refurb and have a brand new electric SUV.
Told me in perfect English that they'll live here until Kyiv is safe or move to London.
They’ll move to london. It’s great for london. And the Uk.
I suspect many/most of the smartest Ukrainian refugees, from across Europe, will end up in london and the SE England
This is a boost for UK plc and an absolute and terrible tragedy for Ukraine. Just Awful
Yup. I presume this family had the money and the connections to get out quick.
There is a Ukrainian community round me so there is a chance they will stay. And Edinburgh isn't too shabby (when the bins aren't full).
“About 4,000-5,000 Ukrainians are arriving in the UK each week, Harrington told the Financial Times, who said he was working with non-profit groups to find new hosts…”
Really?!
That’s 250,000 Ukes a year
You'll be sticking them on the Rwanda shuttle.
No. Cheekbones
The Ukrainians who moved into the flat upstairs are minted. Currently doing a full refurb and have a brand new electric SUV.
Told me in perfect English that they'll live here until Kyiv is safe or move to London.
They’ll move to london. It’s great for london. And the Uk.
I suspect many/most of the smartest Ukrainian refugees, from across Europe, will end up in london and the SE England
This is a boost for UK plc and an absolute and terrible tragedy for Ukraine. Just Awful
The greater the number of poor refugees, the cheaper the labour to refurbish flats for filthy rich "refugees", and hence the more attractive London is for them.
Tbh the first group we need to deport back doesn't involve Rwanda at all (Albanians). It's a safe enough country and there are legal routes from there to here. I don't think most young Albanian men arriving here on dinghys are up to much good frankly.
Here's a bit of trivia for you: "New York came 89 people short of maintaining its House delegation at 27 members, according to numbers released by the Census Bureau on Monday. Instead, it will lose one House seat at the start of 2023.
With 89 more people, they almost certainly wouldn't be having the Maloney-Nadler primary today. (Suraj Patel is running a distant third in the polls.)
Republicans and leftists blame former Governor Cuomo for that shortage. (I am inclined to blame him, too, since I think he mishandled the COVID epidemic, especially in the beginning.)
I think the shortlist is between Ireland, Canada, Sweden, and France.
Great shortlist.
Sweden is fantastic. I could easily see myself in Ireland or France (we very nearly moved to Dublin a few years ago; and we are both Francophiles). Canada may be on the horizon for one of the children, which I’m very comfortable about.
We are at that stage in life where we are very seriously looking to retirement. We are agreed on the basic pattern: Swedish summers (which are simply exquisite) and Mediterranean rest of the year. Only debate is where? Greece look a big step up the charts thanks to a stellar 2022 performance.
I'd have thought an independent Scotland, 365 days a year. Tiree is sunny.
In fact I challenge you to do it if we vote Yes/leave. Leave the herring and schnapps behind.
You’re a mind reader!
Tiree has always been very high up on my bolt hole shortlist. Terrific little microclimate. Fewer midgies than most places in the west; and, crucially for us, an airport. (Time is a commodity in short supply.)
The thing is though, I am a member of a Union. A voluntary union. And my beautiful life partner does not always have identical inclinations as my good self. She is addicted to sun and warmth, and allergic to rural environments.
We do have, and will continue to have, property in Scotland, but our time there is unlikely to exceed a couple of months a year. We’ll see. Attitudes can and do change, thank goodness!
But why would I have to abandon herring?!? It is just as Scottish as it is Swedish.
I can’t stand spirits: akvavit/brännvin (note: not “schnapps” in the Nordic countries), whisky, cognac, grappa, tequila, ouzo, rum, vodka … all bloody dreadful stuff.
Ahahahaha
And thus PB’s 7th most famous Scot nat reveals why he could never, actually, live in Scotland
Tbh the first group we need to deport back doesn't involve Rwanda at all (Albanians). It's a safe enough country and there are legal routes from there to here. I don't think most young Albanian men arriving here on dinghys are up to much good frankly.
“About 4,000-5,000 Ukrainians are arriving in the UK each week, Harrington told the Financial Times, who said he was working with non-profit groups to find new hosts…”
Really?!
That’s 250,000 Ukes a year
You'll be sticking them on the Rwanda shuttle.
No. Cheekbones
The Ukrainians who moved into the flat upstairs are minted. Currently doing a full refurb and have a brand new electric SUV.
Told me in perfect English that they'll live here until Kyiv is safe or move to London.
Which model? I’ve still not decided on the next car and the Volvo is history next month.
I discovered something called a “DS 3 Crossback E-Tense” last week. Had to google the brand: it’s a posh Citroën apparently. Must take a look. Looks a bit pokey, but it’s always best to check out in the flesh.
And how do they charge it if they live in a flat in Edinburgh?
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
And you’re a pissed up late middle-aged man looking for an online argument. These people are coming over from France. In the absence of some kind of deal with the French they will carry on doing so. The current UK government is incapable of agreeing one because it sees any kind of compromise with Europeans as surrender. Other governments may well be less ideological.
This is nothing to do with Brexit or France. You’re an imbecile
It just started right after Brexit. Total coincidence. Not in any way related - oh no.
Your awareness of it might have started right after Brexit but the problem is much older. Have you forgotten things like David Cameron being harangued for talking about a "bunch of migrants"?
Tbh the first group we need to deport back doesn't involve Rwanda at all (Albanians). It's a safe enough country and there are legal routes from there to here. I don't think most young Albanian men arriving here on dinghys are up to much good frankly.
Good luck proving that, documentation long gone.
The pull factors are I think
i. English language - a universal pull factor for every sort of immigrant, including the ones who add a geneuine benefit to our society and those who don't. ii. High chance of friends and family already being here. iii. No ID cards. If you don't want to be found the UK is great. iv. A whole string of immigration lawyers making sure you can never ever be deported, an entire system of useful idiots at your beck and call. v. A massive coke market in that there London. Ready made country lines operations if you prefer something a bit more rural. vi. Opportunities for cash in hand work quite unlike anywhere else due to the lack of ID cards.
I think the shortlist is between Ireland, Canada, Sweden, and France.
Great shortlist.
Sweden is fantastic. I could easily see myself in Ireland or France (we very nearly moved to Dublin a few years ago; and we are both Francophiles). Canada may be on the horizon for one of the children, which I’m very comfortable about.
We are at that stage in life where we are very seriously looking to retirement. We are agreed on the basic pattern: Swedish summers (which are simply exquisite) and Mediterranean rest of the year. Only debate is where? Greece look a big step up the charts thanks to a stellar 2022 performance.
I'd have thought an independent Scotland, 365 days a year. Tiree is sunny.
In fact I challenge you to do it if we vote Yes/leave. Leave the herring and schnapps behind.
You’re a mind reader!
Tiree has always been very high up on my bolt hole shortlist. Terrific little microclimate. Fewer midgies than most places in the west; and, crucially for us, an airport. (Time is a commodity in short supply.)
The thing is though, I am a member of a Union. A voluntary union. And my beautiful life partner does not always have identical inclinations as my good self. She is addicted to sun and warmth, and allergic to rural environments.
We do have, and will continue to have, property in Scotland, but our time there is unlikely to exceed a couple of months a year. We’ll see. Attitudes can and do change, thank goodness!
But why would I have to abandon herring?!? It is just as Scottish as it is Swedish.
I can’t stand spirits: akvavit/brännvin (note: not “schnapps” in the Nordic countries), whisky, cognac, grappa, tequila, ouzo, rum, vodka … all bloody dreadful stuff.
Huh, interesting. My Swedish friends called it schnapps, must've been for my benefit.
We call it “nubbe”, but “snaps” can be used as a generic term. But the actual product is Brännvin (Sweden/Finland) or Akvavit (Denmark/Norway).
Akvavit of course is simply a cognate of aqua vitae, uisge beatha etc
I think the shortlist is between Ireland, Canada, Sweden, and France.
Great shortlist.
Sweden is fantastic. I could easily see myself in Ireland or France (we very nearly moved to Dublin a few years ago; and we are both Francophiles). Canada may be on the horizon for one of the children, which I’m very comfortable about.
We are at that stage in life where we are very seriously looking to retirement. We are agreed on the basic pattern: Swedish summers (which are simply exquisite) and Mediterranean rest of the year. Only debate is where? Greece look a big step up the charts thanks to a stellar 2022 performance.
I'd have thought an independent Scotland, 365 days a year. Tiree is sunny.
In fact I challenge you to do it if we vote Yes/leave. Leave the herring and schnapps behind.
You’re a mind reader!
Tiree has always been very high up on my bolt hole shortlist. Terrific little microclimate. Fewer midgies than most places in the west; and, crucially for us, an airport. (Time is a commodity in short supply.)
The thing is though, I am a member of a Union. A voluntary union. And my beautiful life partner does not always have identical inclinations as my good self. She is addicted to sun and warmth, and allergic to rural environments.
We do have, and will continue to have, property in Scotland, but our time there is unlikely to exceed a couple of months a year. We’ll see. Attitudes can and do change, thank goodness!
But why would I have to abandon herring?!? It is just as Scottish as it is Swedish.
I can’t stand spirits: akvavit/brännvin (note: not “schnapps” in the Nordic countries), whisky, cognac, grappa, tequila, ouzo, rum, vodka … all bloody dreadful stuff.
Huh, interesting. My Swedish friends called it schnapps, must've been for my benefit.
We call it “nubbe”, but “snaps” can be used as a generic term. But the actual product is Brännvin (Sweden/Finland) or Akvavit (Denmark/Norway).
Akvavit of course is simply a cognate of aqua vitae, uisge beatha etc
Brännvin is simply ’burning wine’.
Might explain fondness of their American cousins in Upper Midwest for Everclear, 190-proof (95%) grain alcohol.
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
What's your solution then smartarse?
Rwanda. Fly them to a deeply depressing but safe third country. Do this for every single dinghy immigrant for about six months. No appeal. Nothing. Just do it. Catch them all and do it
Then the boats would stop. Completely. My guess is they would stop within weeks not months
Days.
But the unfair bit of Rwanda is that if they're a genuine claimant they can't come back to the UK. That should be built in.
The sensible long-term solution is to do all processing off-shore.
You arrive, you claim asylum, and you are whisked off to an off-shore processing centre. If you are approved, you get a right to remain in the UK. If you are denied, you are sent back home.
It's fair. It's not complex, and it avoids the issue of us turning away people with genuine claims. It is, in the short term, more expensive. But it would almost certainly cost less in the medium term than the current situation.
Of course, where @Leon is being unusually dense is in missing the fact that there are 1 million illegal immigrants in the UK, and virtually none of them came by boat.
Most illegal immigrants get in the traditional ways of either (a) coming on a passport with a tourist visa and then staying, or (b) paying someone to use the back of their truck. (Something Brexit has actually discouraged, because the time to clear customs at Dover has gone from 10 minutes to up to two days.)
Tbh the first group we need to deport back doesn't involve Rwanda at all (Albanians). It's a safe enough country and there are legal routes from there to here. I don't think most young Albanian men arriving here on dinghys are up to much good frankly.
Good luck proving that, documentation long gone.
The pull factors are I think
i. English language - a universal pull factor for every sort of immigrant, including the ones who add a geneuine benefit to our society and those who don't. ii. High chance of friends and family already being here. iii. No ID cards. If you don't want to be found the UK is great. iv. A whole string of immigration lawyers making sure you can never ever be deported, an entire system of useful idiots at your beck and call. v. A massive coke market in that there London. Ready made country lines operations if you prefer something a bit more rural. vi. Opportunities for cash in hand work quite unlike anywhere else due to the lack of ID cards.
I think iv is a bit more complex: I think the reality is that HMG takes an absolute age (up to seven yearsd) to process asylum seekers. While, by contrast, the Netherlands processes half of all claims in 8 weeks, and 98% within six months.
The UK's tardiness also acts as a pull factor for migrants, because it's easy to get lost while your case is being processed.
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
What's your solution then smartarse?
Rwanda. Fly them to a deeply depressing but safe third country. Do this for every single dinghy immigrant for about six months. No appeal. Nothing. Just do it. Catch them all and do it
Then the boats would stop. Completely. My guess is they would stop within weeks not months
Days.
But the unfair bit of Rwanda is that if they're a genuine claimant they can't come back to the UK. That should be built in.
The sensible long-term solution is to do all processing off-shore.
You arrive, you claim asylum, and you are whisked off to an off-shore processing centre. If you are approved, you get a right to remain in the UK. If you are denied, you are sent back home.
It's fair. It's not complex, and it avoids the issue of us turning away people with genuine claims. It is, in the short term, more expensive. But it would almost certainly cost less in the medium term than the current situation.
Of course, where @Leon is being unusually dense is in missing the fact that there are 1 million illegal immigrants in the UK, and virtually none of them came by boat.
Most illegal immigrants get in the traditional ways of either (a) coming on a passport with a tourist visa and then staying, or (b) paying someone to use the back of their truck. (Something Brexit has actually discouraged, because the time to clear customs at Dover has gone from 10 minutes to up to two days.)
Tbh the first group we need to deport back doesn't involve Rwanda at all (Albanians). It's a safe enough country and there are legal routes from there to here. I don't think most young Albanian men arriving here on dinghys are up to much good frankly.
Good luck proving that, documentation long gone.
The pull factors are I think
i. English language - a universal pull factor for every sort of immigrant, including the ones who add a geneuine benefit to our society and those who don't. ii. High chance of friends and family already being here. iii. No ID cards. If you don't want to be found the UK is great. iv. A whole string of immigration lawyers making sure you can never ever be deported, an entire system of useful idiots at your beck and call. v. A massive coke market in that there London. Ready made country lines operations if you prefer something a bit more rural. vi. Opportunities for cash in hand work quite unlike anywhere else due to the lack of ID cards.
I think iv is a bit more complex: I think the reality is that HMG takes an absolute age (up to seven yearsd) to process asylum seekers. While, by contrast, the Netherlands processes half of all claims in 8 weeks, and 98% within six months.
This also acts as a pull factor for migrants, because it's easy to get lost while your case is being processed.
That's vii.
viii Is the "modern slavery" card you can pull when you're literally on the plane ready to be carted off.
“I got offered EON Next v.21 today so looks like the v.19 has already been pulled. The costs are below its more than 130%!! over so Martin’s price calculator says I shouldn’t take it. Should I risk the SVT or take this in case it goes up?
Electricity Daily standing charge 54.10p Unit rate 84.17p per kWh Assumed annual 5,218kWh
Gas Daily standing charge 32.03p Unit rate 21.01p per kWh”
“I got offered EON Next v.21 today so looks like the v.19 has already been pulled. The costs are below its more than 130%!! over so Martin’s price calculator says I shouldn’t take it. Should I risk the SVT or take this in case it goes up?
Electricity Daily standing charge 54.10p Unit rate 84.17p per kWh Assumed annual 5,218kWh
Gas Daily standing charge 32.03p Unit rate 21.01p per kWh”
Tbh I'd just wait at this point and see what Kwasi announces. Also I think he'll be the Tory leader after Truss.
This will help Joe Biden and, possibly, the Democrats in November: 'The national average for a gallon of regular gas has dropped every single day since soaring to a record high of $5.02 a gallon on June 14, according to AAA. This 70-day streak of falling prices at the pump is the second longest on record going back to 2005, Bespoke Investment Group noted in a report titled "The Great American Summer of Falling Gas Prices."' source: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/23/energy/gas-prices-inflation/index.html
In the US, gas prices are an especially important inflation issue, because people see them every day. Housing costs, though far more important in many areas, are much less visible.
I’ve just glanced the front pages, the Telegraph looks best for actual news - fears support for Ukraine is flagging is the lead. This is good, my Dad gets Telegraph delivered so I can read that at breaky
But my eye was caught by the first of their little “click bait” type ones at bottom - people smugglers offer free bus ride from southern med to the English Channel. What we are up against here isn’t smuggling gangs exploiting an existing opportunity, but their business model likely encourages it to start with - if they are laying on free buses across Europe they are likely filling heads heads with stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain.
Aren't they just buccaneering entrepreneurs? Offering services to willing consumers? Really great to see you back btw.
Thanks.
I suspect now, now I know the buses are laid on from their recruiting centres, they create the custom for their business, and that thought makes me mad. Are they getting customers by filling their heads with a fiction, a fantasy? stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain? Grrrrrrr. 😖
According to government figures the top originating countries for boat migrants this year are: 1. Afghanistan, 2. Iran, 3. Iraq, 4. Syria, 5. Eritrea.
I am not sure the smugglers are stomping around those countries drumming up business tbh. I suspect the demand to get out is already there.
A dinghy travelling from Afghanistan to Kent is a pretty impressive journey to be fair. If they're going all the way from Afghanistan to Kent in a dinghy, non-stop, then that's some dedication.
Especially considering that Afghanistan is a landlocked country.
I’ve just glanced the front pages, the Telegraph looks best for actual news - fears support for Ukraine is flagging is the lead. This is good, my Dad gets Telegraph delivered so I can read that at breaky
But my eye was caught by the first of their little “click bait” type ones at bottom - people smugglers offer free bus ride from southern med to the English Channel. What we are up against here isn’t smuggling gangs exploiting an existing opportunity, but their business model likely encourages it to start with - if they are laying on free buses across Europe they are likely filling heads heads with stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain.
Aren't they just buccaneering entrepreneurs? Offering services to willing consumers? Really great to see you back btw.
Thanks.
I suspect now, now I know the buses are laid on from their recruiting centres, they create the custom for their business, and that thought makes me mad. Are they getting customers by filling their heads with a fiction, a fantasy? stories of a country where the streets are full of work and hand outs, that you could easily wire home to save your struggling family whilst you live the highlife of swinging Britain? Grrrrrrr. 😖
According to government figures the top originating countries for boat migrants this year are: 1. Afghanistan, 2. Iran, 3. Iraq, 4. Syria, 5. Eritrea.
I am not sure the smugglers are stomping around those countries drumming up business tbh. I suspect the demand to get out is already there.
A dinghy travelling from Afghanistan to Kent is a pretty impressive journey to be fair. If they're going all the way from Afghanistan to Kent in a dinghy, non-stop, then that's some dedication.
Especially considering that Afghanistan is a landlocked country.
Perhaps he took a kayak down the Kabul River to the Indus, and then to the Indian Ocean. Paddling from there to Britain would require a little bit of work, even assuming he used the Suez Canal route.
There is no sustainable solution to the Channel crossings that does not involve a deal with France. This government cannot deliver one because it would see it as surrender. Another one probably could.
This is just comical bullshit. France has 900,000 minimum illegal migrants from Africa etc. Because of the EU/Schengen they can’t keep them out of France. So they want as many gone to the UK as possible. That’s it
You’re a clown
What's your solution then smartarse?
Rwanda. Fly them to a deeply depressing but safe third country. Do this for every single dinghy immigrant for about six months. No appeal. Nothing. Just do it. Catch them all and do it
Then the boats would stop. Completely. My guess is they would stop within weeks not months
Days.
But the unfair bit of Rwanda is that if they're a genuine claimant they can't come back to the UK. That should be built in.
The sensible long-term solution is to do all processing off-shore.
You arrive, you claim asylum, and you are whisked off to an off-shore processing centre. If you are approved, you get a right to remain in the UK. If you are denied, you are sent back home.
It's fair. It's not complex, and it avoids the issue of us turning away people with genuine claims. It is, in the short term, more expensive. But it would almost certainly cost less in the medium term than the current situation.
Of course, where @Leon is being unusually dense is in missing the fact that there are 1 million illegal immigrants in the UK, and virtually none of them came by boat.
Most illegal immigrants get in the traditional ways of either (a) coming on a passport with a tourist visa and then staying, or (b) paying someone to use the back of their truck. (Something Brexit has actually discouraged, because the time to clear customs at Dover has gone from 10 minutes to up to two days.)
The solution is simple.
Send them all to Sweden, and pay Stuart to talk to them.
After he has explained for five minutes how awful England is and how loathsome the English are, they'll be begging to go home.
Comments
Iran, 3. Iraq, 4. Syria, 5. Eritrea.
I am not sure the smugglers are stomping around those countries drumming up business tbh. I suspect the demand to get out is already there.
Capitalists filling the heads of the unwary with unobtainable goals?
Whatever next?
My parents had an Iranian family round to lunch this weekend - 2 parents and a precociously bright 10 year old girl - who arrived in Britain earlier this year on one of those dinghies. They are staying at the local reception centre while their asylum claims are dealt with, and had just got confirmed at the local parish church so they are now Iranian anglicans.
They had to leave Iran in a hurry as the father had converted to Christianity, was found out and was about to be arrested and god knows what else for Apostasy which I think is a capital offence. Left with nothing but some cash and some jewellery, much of which they spent with the people traffickers to get them to Britain after an impressive odyssey across various borders (why Britain you ask? Like most others making the calculation, because he already had a brother and other relatives here versus no support network elsewhere).
As they were boarding the boat the traffickers took away all their remaining possessions, leaving them to arrive with nothing. OK these people provide a service desperate people will pay for, but they are essentially criminal scum.
This will cause short term extreme hardship as people are turfed out on the street. We'd have to slowly offer people already here a route to citizenship, too. But that's the only long term solution, right?
I'm being careful not to confuse this with legitimate refugees, who we should be picking up as close to "source" as possible.
They were actually hoping someone would reply with a good idea and working policy 😆
And won’t you know it, the failure to solve it having ripped rug out from under Tories, as soon as the coalition comes in 2025, the boat people might just dry up, for some natural reason in the ebb and flo of things.
She is winning the members vote easily, so has broad support, and plenty of MP backers now, there's no need to go digging around for support from those quarters, and they won't be going anywhere if she fails to reward them.
If you wish to adopt a more social democratic view of the role of the market then be my welcome guest.
A solution needs to be implementable; you couldn't implement this, nor could anyone in government.
You might as well say 'wave a magic wand and zap them back to wherever they came from'.
Sweden is fantastic.
I could easily see myself in Ireland or France (we very nearly moved to Dublin a few years ago; and we are both Francophiles).
Canada may be on the horizon for one of the children, which I’m very comfortable about.
We are at that stage in life where we are very seriously looking to retirement. We are agreed on the basic pattern: Swedish summers (which are simply exquisite) and Mediterranean rest of the year. Only debate is where? Greece look a big step up the charts thanks to a stellar 2022 performance.
I was worried about LoTR as a TV show when I heard they would not be able to depart from a strict lore, which is rather constraining. I suspect it will be fantastic looking but dull, but with low expectations stand a good chance of being pleasantly surprised.
Catch them all (as things stand this is still possible; if we wait, it won’t - too many will come)
Fly them all out to some grim but safe 3rd country. Eg Rwanda. If lawyers object change the law. If the ECHR objects leave the ECHR. This is our island with our law
The deterrent will then work if you do it for long enough. We know this from Australia where it worked
This will be shit for those sent to Rwanda. But it will save many lives from drowning and it will satisfy the British voter and it will save us from a quasi fascist government (which will just sink the boats) and it will quickly stop the evil traffickers anyway via deterrence
Or we just give up and let them all come. Which is the Labour policy. Them’s the choices. There are no others. Choose
But it's about to spread to other councils as the cash made available by SG isn't enough to cover Union demands. And the pay offer in England is better (apparently), so the unions can just refer to that. The councils claim that they've been underfunded for decades and have no room to maneuver.
Not being able to afford heating is going to hit most people first.
The crossings will stop quite soon as the weather gets worse and the days grow shorter. Other diversions from the cost of living crisis will be required.
I just wanted to address your question: if there are limited opportunities for shale gas in the UK, why are Cuadrilla and iGas still going on about it?
It's because they wish to receive compensation from the government. They wish people to believe that it is only because if the capricious nature of the government ban, that they are unable to extract gas.
But let me give you some numbers that should give you a clue as to how successful iGas's wells have been.
In 2005, when the deposits were first announced and iGas floated as the best way to benefit from them, its share price was (on a split adjusted basis) £115.
By 2019, when fracking was banned, it's share price had fallen to 89p. It had lost - before any banning of fracking - more than 99% of its value.
Why? Because when they drilled a well in late 2018 at Tinker Lane, in Nottinghamshire, the shales simply weren't productive. And this was just the latest in a series of wells that failed to find commercial levels of gas.
Blast and radiation - same source, same cause.
Freezing in your own home and illegal boat immigrants - totally unrelated.
"Don't worry about us freezing to death, just focus on sending the boat people to Rwanda."
Most were fleeing some form of official persecution but often this was quite local - more like getting on the wrong side of the district mafia, who just happen to be the local police force or militia. This seems to be the case in places like Sudan, Libya, Eritrea, Iraq. Others were religious refugees, particularly Christians in Muslim countries including our Iranian family. Some were simply displaced by war or low level sectarian conflict that had destroyed their homes - Syria, Somalia etc. A surprising number have come by boat or as stowaways. Most have family or friends in the UK.
Most are unable to work during the claim period and there’s a spectrum between those who are naturally resilient and sociable and are volunteering in the community, going out and making friends and so on, and others who seem to have withdrawn into a deep depression. Not sure which group I’d end up
in if I had the same experience.
In fact I challenge you to do it if we vote Yes/leave. Leave the herring and schnapps behind.
Mind you, at least he’s in gainful self-employment. Most of the SLabber duffers kicked out unceremoniously in 2015 were totally unemployable.
1. Rwanda won't take them
2. Airlines won't fly them
3. People won't work for the agencies executing the policy.
4. Public opinion would not stand for it.
5... etc.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-march-2022/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-march-2022#small-boats
“About 4,000-5,000 Ukrainians are arriving in the UK each week, Harrington told the Financial Times, who said he was working with non-profit groups to find new hosts…”
Really?!
That’s 250,000 Ukes a year
There is an ongoing problem decently housing them all at the moment though isn’t there?
2. There was an airline prepared to fly people out before the courts stopped it.
3. There'll be people willing to do the work, if you join something like G4S or Serco you're expecting to do the gov'ts work.
4. Public opinion is split on the matter, most don't care about it; some in favour, some against.
Sorry but I think "It can't be done" is code for "I think it's utterly ghastly".
Look at cross-Med migration to Italy. Much longer distance, many die, most make it
Same principle
On a similar matter, I think something like 100k visas have been approved thus far for Hong Kongers to emigrate, though how many have who knows.
Tiree has always been very high up on my bolt hole shortlist. Terrific little microclimate. Fewer midgies than most places in the west; and, crucially for us, an airport. (Time is a commodity in short supply.)
The thing is though, I am a member of a Union. A voluntary union. And my beautiful life partner does not always have identical inclinations as my good self. She is addicted to sun and warmth, and allergic to rural environments.
We do have, and will continue to have, property in Scotland, but our time there is unlikely to exceed a couple of months a year. We’ll see. Attitudes can and do change, thank goodness!
But why would I have to abandon herring?!? It is just as Scottish as it is Swedish.
I can’t stand spirits: akvavit/brännvin (note: not “schnapps” in the Nordic countries), whisky, cognac, grappa, tequila, ouzo, rum, vodka … all bloody dreadful stuff.
Since you've pointed out there were problems of implementation already via the courts, and a split in public opinion, it seems reasonable to suggest implementation would be even more difficult with such an increase in the policy.
And thus PB’s 7th most famous Scot nat reveals why he could never, actually, live in Scotland
But I agree @Stuart_Dickson
The best life is an English summer in a great world city, with sojourns in the Med, then winters in Thailand
So: London plus Pelion plus Bangkok. I’ll see you there
Told me in perfect English that they'll live here until Kyiv is safe or move to London.
SF 36% (+1)
FF 20% (nc)
FG 18% (-2)
Lab 4% (nc)
Grn 3% (-2)
PBP/S 3% (+1)
SD 2% (nc)
Aon 1% (nc)
oth 14% (+4)
(Ipsos MRBI/Irish Times; 14 July (+/- 8 Dec))
Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil have failed the wider populace.
They’ll move to london. It’s great for london. And the Uk.
I suspect many/most of the smartest Ukrainian refugees, from across Europe, will end up in london and the SE England
This is a boost for UK plc and an absolute and terrible tragedy for Ukraine. Just Awful
Ah, "the market"!
But the unfair bit of Rwanda is that if they're a genuine claimant they can't come back to the UK. That should be built in.
There is a Ukrainian community round me so there is a chance they will stay. And Edinburgh isn't too shabby (when the bins aren't full).
I don't think most young Albanian men arriving here on dinghys are up to much good frankly.
That’s the best result for New York since Franklin Roosevelt was in the White House. The state peaked at 45 House seats in the 1930s and 1940s, but had lost at least two members in each of the subsequent decades as its population has grown at a slower rate than the rest of the country."
source: https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2021/04/26/for-the-lack-of-89-people-new-york-will-lose-1-house-seat-1378080
With 89 more people, they almost certainly wouldn't be having the Maloney-Nadler primary today. (Suraj Patel is running a distant third in the polls.)
Republicans and leftists blame former Governor Cuomo for that shortage. (I am inclined to blame him, too, since I think he mishandled the COVID epidemic, especially in the beginning.)
Go on then, tell us who the six are. We know you’re desperate to.
I discovered something called a “DS 3 Crossback E-Tense” last week. Had to google the brand: it’s a posh Citroën apparently. Must take a look. Looks a bit pokey, but it’s always best to check out in the flesh.
And how do they charge it if they live in a flat in Edinburgh?
i. English language - a universal pull factor for every sort of immigrant, including the ones who add a geneuine benefit to our society and those who don't.
ii. High chance of friends and family already being here.
iii. No ID cards. If you don't want to be found the UK is great.
iv. A whole string of immigration lawyers making sure you can never ever be deported, an entire system of useful idiots at your beck and call.
v. A massive coke market in that there London. Ready made country lines operations if you prefer something a bit more rural.
vi. Opportunities for cash in hand work quite unlike anywhere else due to the lack of ID cards.
Democratic Primary for Governor
with est. 65% of vote reported
Charlie Crist
652,389 60.9%
Nikki Fried
369,297 34.5%
Cadance Daniel
25,772 2.4%
Robert Willis
23,969 2.2%
Total reported
1,071,427
Addendum - Crist currently carrying every county reporting votes EXCEPT for Alachua Co = Gainsville, home of University of Florida.
Note that western-most part of north Florida panhandle (aka Redneck Riviera) is in Central Time zone where polls don't close for another 25 minutes.
Akvavit of course is simply a cognate of aqua vitae, uisge beatha etc
Brännvin is simply ’burning wine’.
You arrive, you claim asylum, and you are whisked off to an off-shore processing centre. If you are approved, you get a right to remain in the UK. If you are denied, you are sent back home.
It's fair. It's not complex, and it avoids the issue of us turning away people with genuine claims. It is, in the short term, more expensive. But it would almost certainly cost less in the medium term than the current situation.
Of course, where @Leon is being unusually dense is in missing the fact that there are 1 million illegal immigrants in the UK, and virtually none of them came by boat.
Most illegal immigrants get in the traditional ways of either (a) coming on a passport with a tourist visa and then staying, or (b) paying someone to use the back of their truck. (Something Brexit has actually discouraged, because the time to clear customs at Dover has gone from 10 minutes to up to two days.)
The UK's tardiness also acts as a pull factor for migrants, because it's easy to get lost while your case is being processed.
viii Is the "modern slavery" card you can pull when you're literally on the plane ready to be carted off.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6353521/what-rates-are-you-being-offered-by-your-provider-at-the-moment/p114
“I got offered EON Next v.21 today so looks like the v.19 has already been pulled. The costs are below its more than 130%!! over so Martin’s price calculator says I shouldn’t take it. Should I risk the SVT or take this in case it goes up?
Electricity
Daily standing charge 54.10p
Unit rate 84.17p per kWh
Assumed annual 5,218kWh
Gas
Daily standing charge 32.03p
Unit rate 21.01p per kWh”
This 70-day streak of falling prices at the pump is the second longest on record going back to 2005, Bespoke Investment Group noted in a report titled "The Great American Summer of Falling Gas Prices."'
source: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/23/energy/gas-prices-inflation/index.html
In the US, gas prices are an especially important inflation issue, because people see them every day. Housing costs, though far more important in many areas, are much less visible.
Especially considering that Afghanistan is a landlocked country.
Send them all to Sweden, and pay Stuart to talk to them.
After he has explained for five minutes how awful England is and how loathsome the English are, they'll be begging to go home.