Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If the Rennard case leads to any further seepage of support

SystemSystem Posts: 12,214
edited January 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If the Rennard case leads to any further seepage of support from the Lib Dems then LAB looks set to be the winner

politicalbetting.com is proudly powered by WordPress
with "Neat!" theme. Entries (RSS) and Comments (RSS).

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591
    Given half the sample used for that table are now Labour voters, I think it would be more helpful to see this for the people who are left.
  • Whilst I wouldn't disagree with Mike's point, it is also the case that in the Con/LD marginals, any increased reluctance of Labour-leaning tactical voters or Lab/LD waverers to vote LibDem helps the Tories.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Whilst I wouldn't disagree with Mike's point, it is also the case that in the Con/LD marginals, any increased reluctance of Labour-leaning tactical voters or Lab/LD waverers to vote LibDem helps the Tories.

    Indeed that would be the case. But that doesn't impact on the LAB drive for a majority

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    maaarsh said:

    Given half the sample used for that table are now Labour voters, I think it would be more helpful to see this for the people who are left.

    Agreed. Unfortunately that data is not available from ComRes. I think only one of Lord Ashcroft's polls last year enabled that sort of analysis

  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited January 2014
    Even LD voters have a negative view of the LDs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,894
    NH 2016 general election PPP

    •Hillary Clinton (D) 43% [43%]
    •Chris Christie (R) 39% [39%]

    •Hillary Clinton (D) 49% [49%]
    •Jeb Bush (R) 38% [40%]

    •Hillary Clinton (D) 50% [51%] (52%)
    •Rand Paul (R) 37% [41%] (41%)

    •Hillary Clinton (D) 51% [50%]
    •Ted Cruz (R) 32% [38%]
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    For Twisted fire stopper posted this right as the threads changed.

    Saw your comment about language issues earlier you may find the link useful if you are not already aware of them.

    http://www.pocketcomms.co.uk/
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014
    FPT

    @RCS

    I am sure that you are right. SMEs have a very high failure rate in the first few years, so start ups must have a significant risk of default.

    They do also have significant promise of good returns. It may well be that better sources of finance are either the owners own assets (I know a number of businesses set up by a second mortgage on the family home) or by private equity investment. While it does make for sleepless nights, if theoperators have skin in the game, the level of scruitiny and oversight is much more.

    Dr. Sox

    Most bank lending to SMEs is in the form of 'core funding', i.e. overdrafts, bank loans and credit cards. These can be provided as extensions to core consumer products, using centralised 'behavioural credit scoring' systems to manage risk and consumer account processing to deliver product.

    And I am not convinced by Robert's suggestion that such lending carries much higher risks or has greater levels of default than household lending.

    The fall in lending to SMEs since the recession has resulted as much from the uncertain economic outlook and suppressed demand than it has from the banking sector limiting supply.

    Recent statistics from the BoE (its Credit Conditions and Bank Liabilities reports) suggest that all of economic optimism, credit availability and SME loan applications are on the increase, with funding spreads, arrangement fees and defaults falling.

    An upturn in lending to small businesses will be determined far more by the cyclical nature of economic recovery than any impact banking sector structure may (or may not) have on competition.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    If Labour gain any more support it won't just be yellow seepage of the electoral kind that David Cameron has to worry about.
  • I am reminded, in relation to the Rennard case, of the comments of Mr Justice McCardie in Fisher v Oldham Corporation [1930] 2 KB 364, 372-373:
    Suppose that a police officer arrested a man for a serious felony? Suppose, too, that the watch committee of the borough at once passed a resolution directing that the felon should be released? Of what value would such a resolution be? Not only would it be the plain duty of the police officer to disregard the resolution, but it would also be the duty of the chief constable to consider whether an information should not at once be laid against the members of the watch committee for a conspiracy to obstruct the course of criminal justice.
    Justice must be above the whim of the mob. If the Liberal Democrats still contain any people who believe in principles such as innocent until proven guilty, due process, or the rule of law, then Rennard must be allowed to get on with his business, notwithstanding the political cost to the party.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    It is well recognised that a bank is an organisation that lends you an umbrella when it is sunny and takes it back when it rains!

    Certainly high interest rates are appropriate for high risk short term loans, and the rise of Wonga and similar shows that there is little bar to entry of new products and services, except Mr Milliband himself!

    Rather than deride Wonga, he should encourage their model with lower rates and slightly longer terms.
    AveryLP said:

    FPT

    @RCS

    I am sure that you are right. SMEs have a very high failure rate in the first few years, so start ups must have a significant risk of default.

    They do also have significant promise of good returns. It may well be that better sources of finance are either the owners own assets (I know a number of businesses set up by a second mortgage on the family home) or by private equity investment. While it does make for sleepless nights, if theoperators have skin in the game, the level of scruitiny and oversight is much more.

    Dr. Sox

    Most bank lending to SMEs is in the form of 'core funding', i.e. overdrafts, bank loans and credit cards. These can be provided as extensions to core consumer products, using centralised 'behavioural credit scoring' systems to manage risk and consumer account processing to deliver product.

    And I am not convinced by Robert's suggestion that such lending carries much higher risks or has greater levels of default than household lending.

    The fall in lending to SMEs since the recession has resulted as much from the uncertain economic outlook and suppressed demand than it has from the banking sector limiting supply.

    Recent statistics from the BoE (its Credit Conditions and Bank Liabilities reports) suggest that all of economic optimism, credit availability and SME loan applications are on the increase, with funding spreads, arrangement fees and defaults falling.

    An upturn in lending to small businesses will be determined far more by cyclical upturn as the economy recovers from recession than any impact banking sector structure has on competition.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I am reminded, in relation to the Rennard case, of the comments of Mr Justice McCardie in Fisher v Oldham Corporation [1930] 2 KB 364, 372-373:

    Suppose that a police officer arrested a man for a serious felony? Suppose, too, that the watch committee of the borough at once passed a resolution directing that the felon should be released? Of what value would such a resolution be? Not only would it be the plain duty of the police officer to disregard the resolution, but it would also be the duty of the chief constable to consider whether an information should not at once be laid against the members of the watch committee for a conspiracy to obstruct the course of criminal justice.
    Justice must be above the whim of the mob. If the Liberal Democrats still contain any people who believe in principles such as innocent until proven guilty, due process, or the rule of law, then Rennard must be allowed to get on with his business, notwithstanding the political cost to the party.

    I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

    The inquiry found him not liable to a criminal standard of proof. But the granting or withholding of the whip is an entirely political decision. It may be unjust, but Clegg can withhold the whip without cause if he wants to.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    It's always hard to say how bad these sorts of things will play out. Much depends on whether it gets swamped by other bigger news stories. However the real problem is the Lib Dems do rely to a certain extent on being seen as 'good eggs'. Normal, decent people, often not really like politicians. You can see it in the personal vote many of them enjoy in their constituencies. Ironically much of this image may have been carefully crafted by Lord Rennard himself. An association with sleaze means they lose one of their major selling points - they're as dirty as the rest of them.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2014
    @JosiasJessop


    Not trolling at all.

    It's a genuine question you don't seem able to answer: if you don't really care about the issue, then why are you against it? If you have no religious issue with it (presumably, because if you did you'd probably be firmly for or against) then what is your reasoning?

    Or is it your position to restrict rights from people for no reason?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    When the bill was going through parliament I commented a lot about it, and why I was against it. But saying things on internet sites makes it seem like the opinion you hold is stronger than it actually is, especially when the issue is not on topic, and I don't really want the gay people on here to think I am some kind of homophobic nutter who dislikes them, so don't really want to get into a big to do about something that doesn't really matter to me.

    You yourself were calling people that weren't in favour "loonys" the other day and making other disparaging comments, now you want to have an argument about why I dont share your opinion... why should I want to get involved?

    I do care strongly about immigration and its effects, and betting, and on those topics Im happy to argue all day long, as I have demonstrated many times
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I think you are right. The image of LDs as wooly headed but well meaning idealists has been dealt the dual blow. First the realities of the coalition agreement that yhey have always wanted, then a series of scandals involving various MPs and now Rennard.

    No one can deny that they are equal of any party on sleaze now. This seems to stick more to them yhough than other parties. Perhaps it is the novelty. UKIP has had an astonishing list of scandals, yet is teflon coated. They have the advantage though of not being in power, and no real promise of govt either. Scandals in opposition do not amount to much.

    It's always hard to say how bad these sorts of things will play out. Much depends on whether it gets swamped by other bigger news stories. However the real problem is the Lib Dems do rely to a certain extent on being seen as 'good eggs'. Normal, decent people, often not really like politicians. You can see it in the personal vote many of them enjoy in their constituencies. Ironically much of this image may have been carefully crafted by Lord Rennard himself. An association with sleaze means they lose one of their major selling points - they're as dirty as the rest of them.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Charles said:

    It may be unjust, but Clegg can withhold the whip without cause if he wants to.

    There would appear to be plenty enough cause here. But it seems Clegg cant withhold the whip on his own authority. Apparently he has to get his Lords to agree. And many of them dont seem to take this kind of behaviour very seriously.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Neil said:

    Charles said:

    It may be unjust, but Clegg can withhold the whip without cause if he wants to.

    There would appear to be plenty enough cause here. But it seems Clegg cant withhold the whip on his own authority. Apparently he has to get his Lords to agree. And many of them dont seem to take this kind of behaviour very seriously.
    England : Scandal but no sex

    France: Sex but no scandal
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    The 2010 LDs have already changed teams. Current-LD are going to have different preferences.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @HYUFD

    And New Hampshire is one of the states that Republicans should really be competitive in if they're going to win a presidential election. In reality, the state is becoming more in line with the rest of New England, which is now very blue. By my calculations, if you give the Democrats all the states they have won in the last six elections, you get 248 electoral votes. Add in New Hampshire and New Mexico into that, you get to 257. You're left with the Republicans entirely dependent on blue-collar Ohio. Is the GOP going to be do that in its current incarnation?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    isam said:

    @JosiasJessop


    Not trolling at all.

    It's a genuine question you don't seem able to answer: if you don't really care about the issue, then why are you against it? If you have no religious issue with it (presumably, because if you did you'd probably be firmly for or against) then what is your reasoning?

    Or is it your position to restrict rights from people for no reason?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    When the bill was going through parliament I commented a lot about it, and why I was against it. But saying things on internet sites makes it seem like the opinion you hold is stronger than it actually is, especially when the issue is not on topic, and I don't really want the gay people on here to think I am some kind of homophobic nutter who dislikes them, so don't really want to get into a big to do about something that doesn't really matter to me.

    You yourself were calling people that weren't in favour "loonys" the other day and making other disparaging comments, now you want to have an argument about why I dont share your opinion... why should I want to get involved?

    I do care strongly about immigration and its effects, and betting, and on those topics Im happy to argue all day long, as I have demonstrated many times

    Sorry, I can't remember those posts. But it does seem odd that you can't simply put your reasoning into words.

    Perhaps people who are against gay marriage without a good reason (*) are, well, a bit loony. The world's moved on. Gay couples have got married and the world hasn't ended. And the world is a little better for having a little more happiness. (**)

    What's the harm in supporting it now? After all, your position seems to be one of preventing a subsection of society from having the same rights as the rest of us.

    (*) And good reasons seem hard to come by. Religion is one, and even that is arguable.

    (**) There is the counter-argument: why do we wish to inflict the horrors of marriage onto another section of society? ;-)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,894
    Socrates, Indeed and a new NBC poll has Hillary 13 points ahead of Christie after bridgegate

    Also, RIP Chris Chattaway, a sad week in that we have lost 2 talented, decent men with Rodger Lloyd-Pack also passing away!
  • Who is Lord Rennard?
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    Who is Lord Rennard?

    your Google not working?

  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312

    It does seem that as well as a number of culprits there was a blind eye turned both organisationally and individually. A resemblence to another story in the news perhaps.

    Ninoinoz said:

    MrJones said:

    Financier said:

    Ignored by BBC news

    An inquiry led by Dame Janet Smith, a former court of appeal judge, is expected to find the corporation turned a blind eye on the former DJ and presenter’s offending, allowing him to rape and sexually assault hundreds of victims over five decades.

    Peter Saunders, the chief executive of the National Association for People Abused in Childhood (Napac) charity, which has been consulted on the inquiry, said: "I think the 1,000 figure is based on 50 years of him offending. It has been said that he didn't have a quiet day in his life.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/jimmy-savile/10582351/BBC-turned-blind-eye-to-Savile-sex-offences-on-up-to-1000-boys-and-girls.html

    Especially in conjunction with their spiel on the Catholic Church covering stuff up. Quite amazing really.
    Yes, absolutely amazing hypocrisy from the BBC.

    Considering that the BBC is a public corporation, shouldn't the UK Government follow the Holy See into the dock at Geneva?

    Even the Observer is starting to notice:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/18/bbc-whistleblowers-newsnight-savile-scandal

    Mr. Smithson, you used to work in BBC News, didn't you?

    I think you owe us all a comment on this article.
    I left the BBC in 1984 - 30 years ago

    Jimmy Savile joined Radio 1 in 1968 with Savile's Travels. I'm sure the fallout from that particular debacle must have reached the ears of BBC staff by 1984.

    I think a rather more detailed response is called for, Mr. Smithson.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014
    Mr Brooke (FPT)

    What is it about the Brown banking settlement that inspires you so much ? Ed Lympe Pole.

    I am not claiming that the current UK banking sector is ideally structured to encourage competition nor that the political and the regulatory authorities should disregard further sectoral reform.

    What I am saying is that business finance cost and availability is determined by a much broader range of factors than banking sector structure and that structural reform is low down of priority problems to solve and is relatively low in weight as an influence on the competitiveness of the business finance market.

    Singling out industry structure as the sole or major problem and suggesting that its reform will lead to higher levels of customer service, lower costs and increased competition is simply the dumbing down of a complex problem for the purposes of gaining electoral traction. Bluntly, it is a sellable deception.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    AveryLP said:

    Mr Brooke (FPT)

    What is it about the Brown banking settlement that inspires you so much ? Ed Lympe Pole.

    I am not claiming that the current UK banking sector is ideally structured to encourage competition nor that the political and the regulatory authorities should disregard further sectoral reform.

    What I am saying is that business finance cost and availability is determined by a much broader range of factors than banking sector structure and that structural reform is low down of priority problems to solve and is relatively low in weight as an influence on the market for business finance.

    Singling out industry structure as the sole or major problem and suggesting that its reform will lead to higher levels of customer service, lower costs and increased competition is simply dumbing down of a complex problem for the purposes of gaining electoral traction. Bluntly, it is a sellable deception.

    is simply dumbing down of a complex problem for the purposes of gaining electoral traction.

    so how long until George gets going ?
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312

    isam said:

    @JosiasJessop


    Not trolling at all.

    It's a genuine question you don't seem able to answer: if you don't really care about the issue, then why are you against it? If you have no religious issue with it (presumably, because if you did you'd probably be firmly for or against) then what is your reasoning?

    Or is it your position to restrict rights from people for no reason?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    When the bill was going through parliament I commented a lot about it, and why I was against it. But saying things on internet sites makes it seem like the opinion you hold is stronger than it actually is, especially when the issue is not on topic, and I don't really want the gay people on here to think I am some kind of homophobic nutter who dislikes them, so don't really want to get into a big to do about something that doesn't really matter to me.

    You yourself were calling people that weren't in favour "loonys" the other day and making other disparaging comments, now you want to have an argument about why I dont share your opinion... why should I want to get involved?

    I do care strongly about immigration and its effects, and betting, and on those topics Im happy to argue all day long, as I have demonstrated many times

    Sorry, I can't remember those posts. But it does seem odd that you can't simply put your reasoning into words.

    Perhaps people who are against gay marriage without a good reason (*) are, well, a bit loony. The world's moved on. Gay couples have got married and the world hasn't ended. And the world is a little better for having a little more happiness. (**)

    What's the harm in supporting it now? After all, your position seems to be one of preventing a subsection of society from having the same rights as the rest of us.

    (*) And good reasons seem hard to come by. Religion is one, and even that is arguable.

    (**) There is the counter-argument: why do we wish to inflict the horrors of marriage onto another section of society? ;-)
    So, reproduction of the species isn't a good reason? How unDarwinian of you.

    The consequences of a demographic event takes years to work through, so don't take succour from the World not ending just yet.

    BTW, stop calling those who oppose same sex marriage mentally ill. Or do you want us to respond in kind to homosexuals?

    Let's keep it civil and treat each other with mutual respect.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    He is a down market version of Peter Mandelson, without the charm.

    Because of his life peerage he has the right to sit on the legislative process, ruling us until he dies, and is also a powerful argument for the abolition of the House of Lords.

    Who is Lord Rennard?

  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    Lord Carlile shafted us all with his exceptionally illiberal stint as reviewer of anti-terrorism leglislation. He now seems keen on doing the same to the LDs.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014

    AveryLP said:

    Mr Brooke (FPT)

    What is it about the Brown banking settlement that inspires you so much ? Ed Lympe Pole.

    I am not claiming that the current UK banking sector is ideally structured to encourage competition nor that the political and the regulatory authorities should disregard further sectoral reform.

    What I am saying is that business finance cost and availability is determined by a much broader range of factors than banking sector structure and that structural reform is low down of priority problems to solve and is relatively low in weight as an influence on the market for business finance.

    Singling out industry structure as the sole or major problem and suggesting that its reform will lead to higher levels of customer service, lower costs and increased competition is simply dumbing down of a complex problem for the purposes of gaining electoral traction. Bluntly, it is a sellable deception.

    is simply dumbing down of a complex problem for the purposes of gaining electoral traction.

    so how long until George gets going ?
    He is firing on all cylinders now, Mr. Brooke and has been since he came to office.

    But from your personal business point of view, this year will be as good it gets to be a West Midlands metal basher in search of bank finance. OK the economy will continue to improve and confidence rise further leading to greater credit availability, but relative to other sectors of the economy and in terms of loan costs, I would be surprised if you will be able to better 2014.

    The Treasury and Bank of England will be pushing the notes into the pockets of your blue boiler suit. Osborne will probably even visit you to do the stuffing in front of cameras.

  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    Ch Supt Mark Williams, Police Scotland's divisional commander for Edinburgh, said:
    "If you commit an offence, we will investigate it and you will be prosecuted."

    Except of course if you have your car broken into, or house burgled when they will do the most perfunctory of investigations possible.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Ninoinoz said:

    isam said:

    @JosiasJessop


    Not trolling at all.

    It's a genuine question you don't seem able to answer: if you don't really care about the issue, then why are you against it? If you have no religious issue with it (presumably, because if you did you'd probably be firmly for or against) then what is your reasoning?

    Or is it your position to restrict rights from people for no reason?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    When the bill was going through parliament I commented a lot about it, and why I was against it. But saying things on internet sites makes it seem like the opinion you hold is stronger than it actually is, especially when the issue is not on topic, and I don't really want the gay people on here to think I am some kind of homophobic nutter who dislikes them, so don't really want to get into a big to do about something that doesn't really matter to me.

    You yourself were calling people that weren't in favour "loonys" the other day and making other disparaging comments, now you want to have an argument about why I dont share your opinion... why should I want to get involved?

    I do care strongly about immigration and its effects, and betting, and on those topics Im happy to argue all day long, as I have demonstrated many times

    Sorry, I can't remember those posts. But it does seem odd that you can't simply put your reasoning into words.

    Perhaps people who are against gay marriage without a good reason (*) are, well, a bit loony. The world's moved on. Gay couples have got married and the world hasn't ended. And the world is a little better for having a little more happiness. (**)

    What's the harm in supporting it now? After all, your position seems to be one of preventing a subsection of society from having the same rights as the rest of us.

    (*) And good reasons seem hard to come by. Religion is one, and even that is arguable.

    (**) There is the counter-argument: why do we wish to inflict the horrors of marriage onto another section of society? ;-)
    So, reproduction of the species isn't a good reason? How unDarwinian of you.

    The consequences of a demographic event takes years to work through, so don't take succour from the World not ending just yet.

    BTW, stop calling those who oppose same sex marriage mentally ill. Or do you want us to respond in kind to homosexuals?

    Let's keep it civil and treat each other with mutual respect.
    http://www.arrse.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=151330&stc=1&d=1390069716

    t must be true if it was on a pub blackboard!
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Ninoinoz said:



    The consequences of a demographic event takes years to work through, so don't take succour from the World not ending just yet.

    We've already seen the impact on the weather with the recent storms. A plague of locusts cant be far behind.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    @JosiasJessop


    Not trolling at all.

    It's a genuine question you don't seem able to answer: if you don't really care about the issue, then why are you against it? If you have no religious issue with it (presumably, because if you did you'd probably be firmly for or against) then what is your reasoning?

    Or is it your position to restrict rights from people for no reason?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    When the bill was going through parliament I commented a lot about it, and why I was against it. But saying things on internet sites makes it seem like the opinion you hold is stronger than it actually is, especially when the issue is not on topic, and I don't really want the gay people on here to think I am some kind of homophobic nutter who dislikes them, so don't really want to get into a big to do about something that doesn't really matter to me.

    You yourself were calling people that weren't in favour "loonys" the other day and making other disparaging comments, now you want to have an argument about why I dont share your opinion... why should I want to get involved?

    I do care strongly about immigration and its effects, and betting, and on those topics Im happy to argue all day long, as I have demonstrated many times

    Sorry, I can't remember those posts. But it does seem odd that you can't simply put your reasoning into words.

    Perhaps people who are against gay marriage without a good reason (*) are, well, a bit loony. The world's moved on. Gay couples have got married and the world hasn't ended. And the world is a little better for having a little more happiness. (**)

    What's the harm in supporting it now? After all, your position seems to be one of preventing a subsection of society from having the same rights as the rest of us.

    (*) And good reasons seem hard to come by. Religion is one, and even that is arguable.

    (**) There is the counter-argument: why do we wish to inflict the horrors of marriage onto another section of society? ;-)
    I can put it into words, there is nothing odd about it, I just don't want to get into a big argument about something I am not that bothered about, espeicially as it is old ground that has been covered.

    The fact that you keep using extremes such as "loony" and talking about the world not ending is another reason why I cant be bothered to have the argument, as it seems that anyone that isn't pro your side of the debate is an extremist.



  • Ninoinoz said:

    It does seem that as well as a number of culprits there was a blind eye turned both organisationally and individually. A resemblence to another story in the news perhaps.

    Ninoinoz said:

    MrJones said:

    Financier said:

    Ignored by BBC news

    An inquiry led by Dame Janet Smith, a former court of appeal judge, is expected to find the corporation turned a blind eye on the former DJ and presenter’s offending, allowing him to rape and sexually assault hundreds of victims over five decades.

    Peter Saunders, the chief executive of the National Association for People Abused in Childhood (Napac) charity, which has been consulted on the inquiry, said: "I think the 1,000 figure is based on 50 years of him offending. It has been said that he didn't have a quiet day in his life.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/jimmy-savile/10582351/BBC-turned-blind-eye-to-Savile-sex-offences-on-up-to-1000-boys-and-girls.html

    Especially in conjunction with their spiel on the Catholic Church covering stuff up. Quite amazing really.
    Yes, absolutely amazing hypocrisy from the BBC.

    Considering that the BBC is a public corporation, shouldn't the UK Government follow the Holy See into the dock at Geneva?

    Even the Observer is starting to notice:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/18/bbc-whistleblowers-newsnight-savile-scandal

    Mr. Smithson, you used to work in BBC News, didn't you?

    I think you owe us all a comment on this article.
    I left the BBC in 1984 - 30 years ago

    Jimmy Savile joined Radio 1 in 1968 with Savile's Travels. I'm sure the fallout from that particular debacle must have reached the ears of BBC staff by 1984.

    I think a rather more detailed response is called for, Mr. Smithson.
    What on earth has it got to do with Mike, and why would he want to comment online about something that could lead him into all sorts of trouble?

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    Ninoinoz said:

    isam said:

    @JosiasJessop


    Not trolling at all.

    It's a genuine question you don't seem able to answer: if you don't really care about the issue, then why are you against it? If you have no religious issue with it (presumably, because if you did you'd probably be firmly for or against) then what is your reasoning?

    Or is it your position to restrict rights from people for no reason?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    When the bill was going through parliament I commented a lot about it, and why I was against it. But saying things on internet sites makes it seem like the opinion you hold is stronger than it actually is, especially when the issue is not on topic, and I don't really want the gay people on here to think I am some kind of homophobic nutter who dislikes them, so don't really want to get into a big to do about something that doesn't really matter to me.

    You yourself were calling people that weren't in favour "loonys" the other day and making other disparaging comments, now you want to have an argument about why I dont share your opinion... why should I want to get involved?

    I do care strongly about immigration and its effects, and betting, and on those topics Im happy to argue all day long, as I have demonstrated many times

    Sorry, I can't remember those posts. But it does seem odd that you can't simply put your reasoning into words.

    Perhaps people who are against gay marriage without a good reason (*) are, well, a bit loony. The world's moved on. Gay couples have got married and the world hasn't ended. And the world is a little better for having a little more happiness. (**)

    What's the harm in supporting it now? After all, your position seems to be one of preventing a subsection of society from having the same rights as the rest of us.

    (*) And good reasons seem hard to come by. Religion is one, and even that is arguable.

    (**) There is the counter-argument: why do we wish to inflict the horrors of marriage onto another section of society? ;-)
    So, reproduction of the species isn't a good reason? How unDarwinian of you.

    The consequences of a demographic event takes years to work through, so don't take succour from the World not ending just yet.

    BTW, stop calling those who oppose same sex marriage mentally ill. Or do you want us to respond in kind to homosexuals?

    Let's keep it civil and treat each other with mutual respect.
    "So, reproduction of the species isn't a good reason?"

    I forgot that infertile heterosexual couples cannot get married for that reason, for instance women past the menopause.

    Oh, hang on.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    Mr Brooke (FPT)

    What is it about the Brown banking settlement that inspires you so much ? Ed Lympe Pole.

    I am not claiming that the current UK banking sector is ideally structured to encourage competition nor that the political and the regulatory authorities should disregard further sectoral reform.

    What I am saying is that business finance cost and availability is determined by a much broader range of factors than banking sector structure and that structural reform is low down of priority problems to solve and is relatively low in weight as an influence on the market for business finance.

    Singling out industry structure as the sole or major problem and suggesting that its reform will lead to higher levels of customer service, lower costs and increased competition is simply dumbing down of a complex problem for the purposes of gaining electoral traction. Bluntly, it is a sellable deception.

    is simply dumbing down of a complex problem for the purposes of gaining electoral traction.

    so how long until George gets going ?
    He is firing on all cylinders now, Mr. Brooke and has been since he came to office.

    But from your personal business point of view, this year will be as good it gets to be a West Midlands metal basher in search of bank finance. OK the economy will continue to improve and confidence rise further leading to greater credit availability, but relative to other sectors of the economy and in terms of loan costs, I would be surprised if you will be able to better 2014.

    The Treasury and Bank of England will be pushing the notes into the pockets of your blue boiler suit. Osborne will probably even visit you to do the stuffing in front of cameras.

    Mr Pole, more maramlade for the day after tomorrow.

    The fact is GO should have tackled bank reform in 2011 and if he had done so we'd have a few billion more on our GDP. Indeed I think we have already bettered 2014 in 2007 as our GDP still hasn't recovered to pre recession levels. As for singling out reform as the only thing that will drive improvements I fear Mr Pole you are doing me an injustice. My argument is as I stated yesterday that restructuring per se isn't a panacea for recovery, but it will be a strong contributory factor, one which tragically HMG has chosen to ignore.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Just a welfare message, what has happened to the Sunil on Sunday? I know I have been away for a long time but is the youngster OK does anyone know?
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312

    Ninoinoz said:

    It does seem that as well as a number of culprits there was a blind eye turned both organisationally and individually. A resemblence to another story in the news perhaps.

    Ninoinoz said:

    MrJones said:

    Financier said:

    Ignored by BBC news

    An inquiry led by Dame Janet Smith, a former court of appeal judge, is expected to find the corporation turned a blind eye on the former DJ and presenter’s offending, allowing him to rape and sexually assault hundreds of victims over five decades.

    Peter Saunders, the chief executive of the National Association for People Abused in Childhood (Napac) charity, which has been consulted on the inquiry, said: "I think the 1,000 figure is based on 50 years of him offending. It has been said that he didn't have a quiet day in his life.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/jimmy-savile/10582351/BBC-turned-blind-eye-to-Savile-sex-offences-on-up-to-1000-boys-and-girls.html

    Especially in conjunction with their spiel on the Catholic Church covering stuff up. Quite amazing really.
    Yes, absolutely amazing hypocrisy from the BBC.

    Considering that the BBC is a public corporation, shouldn't the UK Government follow the Holy See into the dock at Geneva?

    Even the Observer is starting to notice:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/18/bbc-whistleblowers-newsnight-savile-scandal

    Mr. Smithson, you used to work in BBC News, didn't you?

    I think you owe us all a comment on this article.
    I left the BBC in 1984 - 30 years ago

    Jimmy Savile joined Radio 1 in 1968 with Savile's Travels. I'm sure the fallout from that particular debacle must have reached the ears of BBC staff by 1984.

    I think a rather more detailed response is called for, Mr. Smithson.
    What on earth has it got to do with Mike, and why would he want to comment online about something that could lead him into all sorts of trouble?

    Perhaps he should read Nick Cohen's article.

    Perhaps you should, as well.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/18/bbc-whistleblowers-newsnight-savile-scandal
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited January 2014
    Charles said:


    I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

    The inquiry found him not liable to a criminal standard of proof. But the granting or withholding of the whip is an entirely political decision. It may be unjust, but Clegg can withhold the whip without cause if he wants to.

    He can't, without ratification by Lib Dem peers, who are probably more cognizant of the principles of natural justice than you appear to be...
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312

    Ninoinoz said:

    isam said:
    Sorry, I can't remember those posts. But it does seem odd that you can't simply put your reasoning into words.

    Perhaps people who are against gay marriage without a good reason (*) are, well, a bit loony. The world's moved on. Gay couples have got married and the world hasn't ended. And the world is a little better for having a little more happiness. (**)

    What's the harm in supporting it now? After all, your position seems to be one of preventing a subsection of society from having the same rights as the rest of us.

    (*) And good reasons seem hard to come by. Religion is one, and even that is arguable.

    (**) There is the counter-argument: why do we wish to inflict the horrors of marriage onto another section of society? ;-)
    So, reproduction of the species isn't a good reason? How unDarwinian of you.

    The consequences of a demographic event takes years to work through, so don't take succour from the World not ending just yet.

    BTW, stop calling those who oppose same sex marriage mentally ill. Or do you want us to respond in kind to homosexuals?

    Let's keep it civil and treat each other with mutual respect.
    "So, reproduction of the species isn't a good reason?"

    I forgot that infertile heterosexual couples cannot get married for that reason, for instance women past the menopause.

    Oh, hang on.
    With heterosexual couples, there is at least the theoretical chance of children, even if this is not fulfilled.

    With homosexual couples, there is no chance of children of the marriage.

    If you wish to stop non-fertile couples from marrying, I would agree with your proposal.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RodCrosby said:

    Charles said:


    I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

    The inquiry found him not liable to a criminal standard of proof. But the granting or withholding of the whip is an entirely political decision. It may be unjust, but Clegg can withhold the whip without cause if he wants to.

    He can't, without ratification by Lib Dem peers, who are probably more cognisant of the principles of natural justice than you appear to be...
    I am fully aware of natural justice.

    There is a difference between balance of probabilities and the standard required for criminal proof. Rennard was judged to have exceeded one, but not the other. An apology is called for, and - potentially - a political punishment. A criminal punishment is not warranted.
  • Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    It does seem that as well as a number of culprits there was a blind eye turned both organisationally and individually. A resemblence to another story in the news perhaps.

    Ninoinoz said:

    MrJones said:

    Financier said:

    Ignored by BBC news

    An inquiry led by Dame Janet Smith, a former court of appeal judge, is expected to find the corporation turned a blind eye on the former DJ and presenter’s offending, allowing him to rape and sexually assault hundreds of victims over five decades.

    Peter Saunders, the chief executive of the National Association for People Abused in Childhood (Napac) charity, which has been consulted on the inquiry, said: "I think the 1,000 figure is based on 50 years of him offending. It has been said that he didn't have a quiet day in his life.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/jimmy-savile/10582351/BBC-turned-blind-eye-to-Savile-sex-offences-on-up-to-1000-boys-and-girls.html

    Especially in conjunction with their spiel on the Catholic Church covering stuff up. Quite amazing really.
    Yes, absolutely amazing hypocrisy from the BBC.

    Considering that the BBC is a public corporation, shouldn't the UK Government follow the Holy See into the dock at Geneva?

    Even the Observer is starting to notice:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/18/bbc-whistleblowers-newsnight-savile-scandal

    Mr. Smithson, you used to work in BBC News, didn't you?

    I think you owe us all a comment on this article.
    I left the BBC in 1984 - 30 years ago

    Jimmy Savile joined Radio 1 in 1968 with Savile's Travels. I'm sure the fallout from that particular debacle must have reached the ears of BBC staff by 1984.

    I think a rather more detailed response is called for, Mr. Smithson.
    What on earth has it got to do with Mike, and why would he want to comment online about something that could lead him into all sorts of trouble?

    Perhaps he should read Nick Cohen's article.

    Perhaps you should, as well.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/18/bbc-whistleblowers-newsnight-savile-scandal
    I've read it. My point still stands. Why would Mike or anybody comment online about Savile, or the host of 70s stars going through the courts as we speak?
    That's not whistleblowing, that'd be madness.

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    The UKIP shipping forecast which is being Tweeted by the ex-No 10 Strategy Director
    https://m.soundcloud.com/nicholas-pegg/ukip-shipping-forecast
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Sky: Chris Davies MEP offers to help fund any potential legal action by Rennard against the LibDems...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    isam said:
    Sorry, I can't remember those posts. But it does seem odd that you can't simply put your reasoning into words.

    Perhaps people who are against gay marriage without a good reason (*) are, well, a bit loony. The world's moved on. Gay couples have got married and the world hasn't ended. And the world is a little better for having a little more happiness. (**)

    What's the harm in supporting it now? After all, your position seems to be one of preventing a subsection of society from having the same rights as the rest of us.

    (*) And good reasons seem hard to come by. Religion is one, and even that is arguable.

    (**) There is the counter-argument: why do we wish to inflict the horrors of marriage onto another section of society? ;-)
    So, reproduction of the species isn't a good reason? How unDarwinian of you.

    The consequences of a demographic event takes years to work through, so don't take succour from the World not ending just yet.

    BTW, stop calling those who oppose same sex marriage mentally ill. Or do you want us to respond in kind to homosexuals?

    Let's keep it civil and treat each other with mutual respect.
    "So, reproduction of the species isn't a good reason?"

    I forgot that infertile heterosexual couples cannot get married for that reason, for instance women past the menopause.

    Oh, hang on.
    With heterosexual couples, there is at least the theoretical chance of children, even if this is not fulfilled.

    With homosexual couples, there is no chance of children of the marriage.

    If you wish to stop non-fertile couples from marrying, I would agree with your proposal.
    "With heterosexual couples, there is at least the theoretical chance of children, even if this is not fulfilled."

    Really? I'd be interested to know how a woman in her eighties, who has been legally able to marry for centuries, has a theoretical chance of children.

    Go on, educate us.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Ninoinoz said:


    With heterosexual couples, there is at least the theoretical chance of children, even if this is not fulfilled.

    With homosexual couples, there is no chance of children of the marriage.

    If you wish to stop non-fertile couples from marrying, I would agree with your proposal.

    Jesus was born to a virgin, so surely all lesbian couples have a theoretical chance of children as God may chose to impregnate one of them at any time. On this basis I think we can all agree on lesbian marriages being ok but not two men.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited January 2014
    Charles said:


    I am fully aware of natural justice.

    There is a difference between balance of probabilities and the standard required for criminal proof. Rennard was judged to have exceeded one, but not the other. An apology is called for, and - potentially - a political punishment. A criminal punishment is not warranted.

    Clearly, you haven't the foggiest, old chap...

    Rennard was not properly 'judged' to have done anything.
    Webster was not a competent tribunal, the demand for an apology was probably ultra vires, and clearly the principles of natural justice were ignored.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Obviously the bloke who said it was raining because of gay marriage is mad as a hatter, but I also think that if he had been a conservative who had recently defected from ukip, rather than vice versa, the media, and this sites, attention would be focussing on the fact he was ex ukip.
  • Neil said:

    Ninoinoz said:


    With heterosexual couples, there is at least the theoretical chance of children, even if this is not fulfilled.

    With homosexual couples, there is no chance of children of the marriage.

    If you wish to stop non-fertile couples from marrying, I would agree with your proposal.

    Jesus was born to a virgin, so surely all lesbian couples have a theoretical chance of children as God may chose to impregnate one of them at any time. On this basis I think we can all agree on lesbian marriages being ok but not two men.
    Lesbians don't have time for children, they're too busy chatting up straight housewives, whilst wearing stockings and heels, big hair and lots of make up . I know this is true, as I have seen hundreds of films about this on the internet.

  • I've got to thank this UKIP councillor for giving my friends and myself a great laugh.

    A few thoughts, if the gays are responsible for the weather.

    1) The weather would be more fabulous

    2) There'd be more rainbows

    3) It's raining men wouldn't just be a song, but an actual occurrence

    4) All those anti-gay, drought ridden African countries must be feeling a bit narked the way they treat the gays.
  • Just a welfare message, what has happened to the Sunil on Sunday? I know I have been away for a long time but is the youngster OK does anyone know?

    I too worry about Sunil, he's working in the West Midlands at the moment, and I'm worried he might end up sounding like a Brummie the next time I see him.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @jameschappers: Jawdropping stuff from Rennard ally Chris Davies MEP on @bbcwestminhour: 'This isn’t Jimmy Savile.' Now calls for him to be disciplined

    @jameschappers: Chris Davies on @bbcwestminhour: 'This is touching someone’s leg through clothing..equivalent of an Italian man pinching a woman’s bottom'
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014
    @Mr_Brooke

    more maramlade for the day after tomorrow.

    The fact is GO should have tackled bank reform in 2011 and if he had done so we'd have a few billion more on our GDP. Indeed I think we have already bettered 2014 in 2007 as our GDP still hasn't recovered to pre recession levels. As for singling out reform as the only thing that will drive improvements I fear Mr Pole you are doing me an injustice. My argument is as I stated yesterday that restructuring per se isn't a panacea for recovery, but it will be a strong contributory factor, one which tragically HMG has chosen to ignore.


    But George did get going the moment he set foot in No 11.

    Here is an extract from his Mansion House Speech made on 16 June 2010:

    the new Government is establishing an independent commission on the banking industry. It will look at the structure of banking in the UK, the state of competition in the industry and how customers and taxpayers can be sure of the best deal. The Commission will come to a view. And the Government will decide on the right course of action. Sir John Vickers has agreed to chair the Commission.

    The Vickers Commission published a summary of issues paper in September 2010 which highlighted the following scope of the commission's work:

    • Financial stability
    • Competition
    • Interaction of financial stability and competition
    • Lending and the pace of economic recovery
    • Competitiveness of UK financial services and the wider economy
    • Risks to the Government’s fiscal position


    The main priority for Vickers was to make recommendations on how the taxpayer and retail depositors could avoid loss in the event of future bank failures. He did however also consider and recommend measures to regulate and enhance competitiveness.

    Vickers published an interim report in April 2011 and a final report in September 2011. His main recommendation was to establish a ring-fencing structure rather to split up the large UK banks.

    [to be continued]


  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014
    @Mr_Brooke

    [Osborne and Banks, continued ..]

    Vickers's recommendations were broadly accepted by Osborne, even though they were very contentious within the industry; anticipated rather than followed work being done in the US and the EU; were complex and far-ranging requiring substantial changes to existing structure; and, were dealing with a banking sector whose combined assets were over three times the size of the UK's Gross National Product!

    Osborne announced to the HoC on 19 December 2011 that the government accepted:

    • The principle of ring fencing. It was undecided over whether there should be a de-minimis exemption for small banks;
    • Large retail banks will have to hold equity capital of 10% and a loss absorbing capacity of 17% for large banks. There could be adjustments of this figure for banks with a large overseas operation which could be shown to pose no threat to UK stability if it failed.
    • The principle of depositor preference
    • Improved competition – easier switching of bank accounts, to be done within seven days by September 2013. The government did not accept the recommendation that the divestment of Lloyd’s branches should go beyond that required under EU rules.


    He announced that the Financial Services Bill in passage at the time would be amended to adopt the recommendations, and he stated that:

    “I can confirm that primary and secondary legislation relating to the ring fence will be completed by the end of this Parliament in May 2015, and that banks will be expected to comply as soon as practically possible thereafter. The Government will work with the banks to develop a reasonable transition timetable.”

    Come on, Mr. Brooke, you can hardly have expected any Chancellor to have moved this far and fast in so short a time!

    And I have left out a whole number of further measures which have followed on from Vickers and the 2012 Act.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Neil said:

    Ninoinoz said:


    With heterosexual couples, there is at least the theoretical chance of children, even if this is not fulfilled.

    With homosexual couples, there is no chance of children of the marriage.

    If you wish to stop non-fertile couples from marrying, I would agree with your proposal.

    Jesus was born to a virgin, so surely all lesbian couples have a theoretical chance of children as God may chose to impregnate one of them at any time. On this basis I think we can all agree on lesbian marriages being ok but not two men.
    But wasn't there that Canadian man* who got/was pregnant a few years ago.

    (* admittedly he was at some point along the transgender path, rather than originally born a man)

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1582908/Pregnant-man-stuns-medical-profession.html
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    I've got to thank this UKIP councillor for giving my friends and myself a great laugh.

    A few thoughts, if the gays are responsible for the weather.

    1) The weather would be more fabulous

    2) There'd be more rainbows

    3) It's raining men wouldn't just be a song, but an actual occurrence

    4) All those anti-gay, drought ridden African countries must be feeling a bit narked the way they treat the gays.

    The councillor that the conservatives entertained but ukip suspended?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Scott_P said:


    @jameschappers: Chris Davies on @bbcwestminhour: 'This is touching someone’s leg through clothing..equivalent of an Italian man pinching a woman’s bottom'

    In a way it's refreshing to hear one of them actually say out loud what we know they are thinking.
  • He is a down market version of Peter Mandelson, without the charm.

    Because of his life peerage he has the right to sit on the legislative process, ruling us until he dies, and is also a powerful argument for the abolition of the House of Lords.

    Who is Lord Rennard?

    I must admit I have never heard of him.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tnewtondunn: This is how a political party implodes. See Lib MEP Chris Davies's potty Rennard comments on @BBCWestminHour (via @jameschappers).
  • isam said:

    I've got to thank this UKIP councillor for giving my friends and myself a great laugh.

    A few thoughts, if the gays are responsible for the weather.

    1) The weather would be more fabulous

    2) There'd be more rainbows

    3) It's raining men wouldn't just be a song, but an actual occurrence

    4) All those anti-gay, drought ridden African countries must be feeling a bit narked the way they treat the gays.

    The councillor that the conservatives entertained but ukip suspended?
    I prefer to think of him as the the councillor when he left the Tory Party and joined UKIP increased the average IQ for both parties.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    @Scott_P

    I have personal experience of how these things can spin catastrophically out of control.

    People in clubs and associations seem to lose their heads completely when there is a scent of blood, and when the target refuses to be bullied into submission.

    The LibDems need to get a grip, fast, and start taking competent legal advice, which it appears - from their disarray - they have not yet done...
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    He is a down market version of Peter Mandelson, without the charm.

    Because of his life peerage he has the right to sit on the legislative process, ruling us until he dies, and is also a powerful argument for the abolition of the House of Lords.

    Who is Lord Rennard?

    I must admit I have never heard of him.
    He's been all over the news for days.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The Lib Dem peers sound like they're extras from the Benny Hill show.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    @TSE According to the front of the Western Mail, in China Sherlock is known as 'Curly Fu'.
  • On topic, it's going to do bugger all, when the revelations first came out, during the Eastleigh by-election, they did no damage to the Lib Dems.

    I bet when Lord Rennard visits his mother, she had to go on wikipedia to find out who he is.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2014

    isam said:

    I've got to thank this UKIP councillor for giving my friends and myself a great laugh.

    A few thoughts, if the gays are responsible for the weather.

    1) The weather would be more fabulous

    2) There'd be more rainbows

    3) It's raining men wouldn't just be a song, but an actual occurrence

    4) All those anti-gay, drought ridden African countries must be feeling a bit narked the way they treat the gays.

    The councillor that the conservatives entertained but ukip suspended?
    I prefer to think of him as the the councillor when he left the Tory Party and joined UKIP increased the average IQ for both parties.
    It's like saying Denis Law the Man City player, or George Graham the Tottenham manager.. True enough, but...
  • Carola said:

    @TSE According to the front of the Western Mail, in China Sherlock is known as 'Curly Fu'.


    Yup, here's the story.

    http://www.walesonline.co.uk/lifestyle/showbiz/chinese-love-curly-fu-thats-6527306

    Is a bit like in the 60s and 70s James Bond was known in Japan as Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    On topic, it's going to do bugger all, when the revelations first came out, during the Eastleigh by-election, they did no damage to the Lib Dems.

    Some peer noone has heard of misbehaving wont have a political impact. An entire parliamentary party making it clear they dont see anything wrong with what he did will make a big impact with a certain type of voter.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    I've got to thank this UKIP councillor for giving my friends and myself a great laugh.

    A few thoughts, if the gays are responsible for the weather.

    1) The weather would be more fabulous

    2) There'd be more rainbows

    3) It's raining men wouldn't just be a song, but an actual occurrence

    4) All those anti-gay, drought ridden African countries must be feeling a bit narked the way they treat the gays.

    The councillor that the conservatives entertained but ukip suspended?
    I prefer to think of him as the the councillor when he left the Tory Party and joined UKIP increased the average IQ for both parties.
    It's like saying Denis Law the Man City player, or George Graham the Tottenham manager.. True enough, but...
    Well Denis Law did relegate Manchester United
  • Neil said:

    On topic, it's going to do bugger all, when the revelations first came out, during the Eastleigh by-election, they did no damage to the Lib Dems.

    Some peer noone has heard of misbehaving wont have a political impact. An entire parliamentary party making it clear they dont see anything wrong with what he did will make a big impact with a certain type of voter.
    Maybe, I have my doubts.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312

    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    It does seem that as well as a number of culprits there was a blind eye turned both organisationally and individually. A resemblence to another story in the news perhaps.

    Ninoinoz said:

    MrJones said:

    Financier said:

    Ignored by BBC news

    An inquiry led by Dame Janet Smith, a former court of appeal judge, is expected to find the corporation turned a blind eye on the former DJ and presenter’s offending, allowing him to rape and sexually assault hundreds of victims over five decades.

    Peter Saunders, the chief executive of the National Association for People Abused in Childhood (Napac) charity, which has been consulted on the inquiry, said: "I think the 1,000 figure is based on 50 years of him offending. It has been said that he didn't have a quiet day in his life.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/jimmy-savile/10582351/BBC-turned-blind-eye-to-Savile-sex-offences-on-up-to-1000-boys-and-girls.html

    Especially in conjunction with their spiel on the Catholic Church covering stuff up. Quite amazing really.
    Yes, absolutely amazing hypocrisy from the BBC.

    Considering that the BBC is a public corporation, shouldn't the UK Government follow the Holy See into the dock at Geneva?

    Even the Observer is starting to notice:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/18/bbc-whistleblowers-newsnight-savile-scandal

    Mr. Smithson, you used to work in BBC News, didn't you?

    I think you owe us all a comment on this article.
    I left the BBC in 1984 - 30 years ago

    Jimmy Savile joined Radio 1 in 1968 with Savile's Travels. I'm sure the fallout from that particular debacle must have reached the ears of BBC staff by 1984.

    I think a rather more detailed response is called for, Mr. Smithson.
    What on earth has it got to do with Mike, and why would he want to comment online about something that could lead him into all sorts of trouble?

    Perhaps he should read Nick Cohen's article.

    Perhaps you should, as well.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/18/bbc-whistleblowers-newsnight-savile-scandal
    I've read it. My point still stands. Why would Mike or anybody comment online about Savile, or the host of 70s stars going through the courts as we speak?
    That's not whistleblowing, that'd be madness.

    Jimmy Savile is dead, if you haven't noticed.

    Perfectly safe to comment about him.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited January 2014
    Lawyer to petition the Queen over Rennard...
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2542003/Calls-Queen-strip-sleazy-Lib-Dem-Lord-Rennard-peerage-sexual-harassment-claims.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

    As I said, spinning catastrophically out of control...

    "Clubs are the most anomalous group of human beings known to law.", Feeney v MacManus [1937]
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    It does seem that as well as a number of culprits there was a blind eye turned both organisationally and individually. A resemblence to another story in the news perhaps.

    Ninoinoz said:

    MrJones said:

    Financier said:

    Ignored by BBC news

    An inquiry led by Dame Janet Smith, a former court of appeal judge, is expected to find the corporation turned a blind eye on the former DJ and presenter’s offending, allowing him to rape and sexually assault hundreds of victims over five decades.

    Peter Saunders, the chief executive of the National Association for People Abused in Childhood (Napac) charity, which has been consulted on the inquiry, said: "I think the 1,000 figure is based on 50 years of him offending. It has been said that he didn't have a quiet day in his life.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/jimmy-savile/10582351/BBC-turned-blind-eye-to-Savile-sex-offences-on-up-to-1000-boys-and-girls.html

    Especially in conjunction with their spiel on the Catholic Church covering stuff up. Quite amazing really.
    Yes, absolutely amazing hypocrisy from the BBC.

    Considering that the BBC is a public corporation, shouldn't the UK Government follow the Holy See into the dock at Geneva?

    Even the Observer is starting to notice:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/18/bbc-whistleblowers-newsnight-savile-scandal

    Mr. Smithson, you used to work in BBC News, didn't you?

    I think you owe us all a comment on this article.
    I left the BBC in 1984 - 30 years ago

    Jimmy Savile joined Radio 1 in 1968 with Savile's Travels. I'm sure the fallout from that particular debacle must have reached the ears of BBC staff by 1984.

    I think a rather more detailed response is called for, Mr. Smithson.
    What on earth has it got to do with Mike, and why would he want to comment online about something that could lead him into all sorts of trouble?

    Perhaps he should read Nick Cohen's article.

    Perhaps you should, as well.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/18/bbc-whistleblowers-newsnight-savile-scandal
    I've read it. My point still stands. Why would Mike or anybody comment online about Savile, or the host of 70s stars going through the courts as we speak?
    That's not whistleblowing, that'd be madness.

    Jimmy Savile is dead, if you haven't noticed.

    Perfectly safe to comment about him.
    There are plenty of people at the BBC who are very much still living.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Clegg must want to kill that MEP.

    I reckon he could lose his whip.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @TSE This scandal does make me less inclined to vote Lib Dem. I accept that I'm a fairly unusual floating voter in many respects.
  • TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    edited January 2014


    Jimmy Savile is dead, if you haven't noticed.

    Perfectly safe to comment about him.

    Jimmy is dead? Say it ain't so!

    As I said, it ain't whistleblowing, it's just an opportunity to get in trouble. I hope if Mike had anything to say about Savile or the BBCs involvement, he'd go to the relevant authorities, rather than post about it on here.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Just a welfare message, what has happened to the Sunil on Sunday? I know I have been away for a long time but is the youngster OK does anyone know?

    I too worry about Sunil, he's working in the West Midlands at the moment, and I'm worried he might end up sounding like a Brummie the next time I see him.
    He is working? Proper work, biochemisty stuff, not shelf stacking in a supermarket or playing with train sets? That is spiffing news! Good for Sunil! I knew the boy would come good eventually. If he ends up speaking like a Brummie, well its a price worth paying.

    Hows is your accent these days , Mr Eagles? A cross between Yorkshire and Mordor I suspect and so unintelligible to any civilised person.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    IOS said:

    Clegg must want to kill that MEP.

    I reckon he could lose his whip.

    I presume he's restanding in May and is at the top of their list in the north west? It would be great to see him lose his whip and kicked off the list. Mind you the voters may yet give him the sack anyway (though north west is one of their better prospects for holding on).
  • antifrank said:

    @TSE This scandal does make me less inclined to vote Lib Dem. I accept that I'm a fairly unusual floating voter in many respects.

    Now that is interesting.

    I guess what drives my view, not everyone is interested in politics and follows the minutiae of stories like us.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    IOS said:

    Clegg must want to kill that MEP.

    I reckon he could lose his whip.

    Davies is one of the few LibDem MEPs who might survive the Euro extinction event...
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312

    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    isam said:
    Sorry, I can't remember those posts. But it does seem odd that you can't simply put your reasoning into words.

    Perhaps people who are against gay marriage without a good reason (*) are, well, a bit loony. The world's moved on. Gay couples have got married and the world hasn't ended. And the world is a little better for having a little more happiness. (**)

    What's the harm in supporting it now? After all, your position seems to be one of preventing a subsection of society from having the same rights as the rest of us.

    (*) And good reasons seem hard to come by. Religion is one, and even that is arguable.

    (**) There is the counter-argument: why do we wish to inflict the horrors of marriage onto another section of society? ;-)
    So, reproduction of the species isn't a good reason? How unDarwinian of you.

    The consequences of a demographic event takes years to work through, so don't take succour from the World not ending just yet.

    BTW, stop calling those who oppose same sex marriage mentally ill. Or do you want us to respond in kind to homosexuals?

    Let's keep it civil and treat each other with mutual respect.
    "So, reproduction of the species isn't a good reason?"

    I forgot that infertile heterosexual couples cannot get married for that reason, for instance women past the menopause.

    Oh, hang on.
    With heterosexual couples, there is at least the theoretical chance of children, even if this is not fulfilled.

    With homosexual couples, there is no chance of children of the marriage.

    If you wish to stop non-fertile couples from marrying, I would agree with your proposal.
    "With heterosexual couples, there is at least the theoretical chance of children, even if this is not fulfilled."

    Really? I'd be interested to know how a woman in her eighties, who has been legally able to marry for centuries, has a theoretical chance of children.

    Go on, educate us.
    If you wish to stop 80-year women marrying, I will support you.

    As the Virgin Mary was cited further down this thread, I would put point out her cousin Elisabeth conceived at an advanced age (John the Baptist), but she, of course, had been married much earlier.

    A little bit strange to see scripture quoted on this thread after the piss being taken out of that Baptist Ukipper.
  • Just a welfare message, what has happened to the Sunil on Sunday? I know I have been away for a long time but is the youngster OK does anyone know?

    I too worry about Sunil, he's working in the West Midlands at the moment, and I'm worried he might end up sounding like a Brummie the next time I see him.
    He is working? Proper work, biochemisty stuff, not shelf stacking in a supermarket or playing with train sets? That is spiffing news! Good for Sunil! I knew the boy would come good eventually. If he ends up speaking like a Brummie, well its a price worth paying.

    Hows is your accent these days , Mr Eagles? A cross between Yorkshire and Mordor I suspect and so unintelligible to any civilised person.
    I believe it is for a university he is working for.

    My accent is getting worse, it is all about the cadence.

    It is not helped by the fact I spend the day in Manchester, and the evenings in South Yorkshire.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312



    Jimmy Savile is dead, if you haven't noticed.

    Perfectly safe to comment about him.

    Jimmy is dead? Say it ain't so!

    As I said, it ain't whistleblowing, it's just an opportunity to get in trouble. I hope if Mike had anything to say about Savile or the BBCs involvement, he'd go to the relevant authorities, rather than post about it on here.


    If Mike Smithson has gone to the authorities about Jimmy Savile, then that is indeed praiseworthy. Please give us the details of how the police failed to put a stop to this monster so we can punish the force involved.
  • Just a welfare message, what has happened to the Sunil on Sunday? I know I have been away for a long time but is the youngster OK does anyone know?

    I too worry about Sunil, he's working in the West Midlands at the moment, and I'm worried he might end up sounding like a Brummie the next time I see him.
    "Now all you need is a Kipper Tie!"

    (but seriously, Coventry is a little to the east of *real* Brummie territory).
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Manchester I knew about but evenings in South Yorkshire? I can see there is a lot that I have to catch up on.

    Anyway, thanks for that news about young Sunil, most heartening. I expect his mum is pleased.
  • Just a welfare message, what has happened to the Sunil on Sunday? I know I have been away for a long time but is the youngster OK does anyone know?

    I too worry about Sunil, he's working in the West Midlands at the moment, and I'm worried he might end up sounding like a Brummie the next time I see him.
    He is working? Proper work, biochemisty stuff, not shelf stacking in a supermarket or playing with train sets? That is spiffing news! Good for Sunil! I knew the boy would come good eventually. If he ends up speaking like a Brummie, well its a price worth paying.

    Hows is your accent these days , Mr Eagles? A cross between Yorkshire and Mordor I suspect and so unintelligible to any civilised person.
    Ahoy there, Mr Llama, thanks for enquiring! I am working at a Uni near the great pirate seaport of Coventry, albeit part-time. Started in November should have guaranteed work till the end of April.

    Belike and all that!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @GdnPolitics: Lord Rennard is victim of political conspiracy, say his allies http://t.co/qqbC0BV9tc
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Neil

    Clegg needs to take ownership of this issue. This is the perfect opportunity for him to start slapping people down. I don't think that this will move the polls but I do think that it will lose the Lib Dems members unless Clegg and the leadership are seen to be actively engaged in stamping out acceptance of this sort of behaviour.
  • Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    isam said:
    Sorry, I can't remember those posts. But it does seem odd that you can't simply put your reasoning into words.

    Perhaps people who are against gay marriage without a good reason (*) are, well, a bit loony. The world's moved on. Gay couples have got married and the world hasn't ended. And the world is a little better for having a little more happiness. (**)

    What's the harm in supporting it now? After all, your position seems to be one of preventing a subsection of society from having the same rights as the rest of us.

    (*) And good reasons seem hard to come by. Religion is one, and even that is arguable.

    (**) There is the counter-argument: why do we wish to inflict the horrors of marriage onto another section of society? ;-)
    So, reproduction of the species isn't a good reason? How unDarwinian of you.

    The consequences of a demographic event takes years to work through, so don't take succour from the World not ending just yet.

    BTW, stop calling those who oppose same sex marriage mentally ill. Or do you want us to respond in kind to homosexuals?

    Let's keep it civil and treat each other with mutual respect.
    "So, reproduction of the species isn't a good reason?"

    I forgot that infertile heterosexual couples cannot get married for that reason, for instance women past the menopause.

    Oh, hang on.
    With heterosexual couples, there is at least the theoretical chance of children, even if this is not fulfilled.

    With homosexual couples, there is no chance of children of the marriage.

    If you wish to stop non-fertile couples from marrying, I would agree with your proposal.
    "With heterosexual couples, there is at least the theoretical chance of children, even if this is not fulfilled."

    Really? I'd be interested to know how a woman in her eighties, who has been legally able to marry for centuries, has a theoretical chance of children.

    Go on, educate us.
    If you wish to stop 80-year women marrying, I will support you.

    As the Virgin Mary was cited further down this thread, I would put point out her cousin Elisabeth conceived at an advanced age (John the Baptist), but she, of course, had been married much earlier.

    A little bit strange to see scripture quoted on this thread after the piss being taken out of that Baptist Ukipper.
    Did God marry the mother of His only begotten son?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Just 1,660 signatures to go now for Leyla Hussein's anti-FGM epetition. Please sign if you haven't already:

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/52740
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    IOS said:

    Neil

    Clegg needs to take ownership of this issue. This is the perfect opportunity for him to start slapping people down. I don't think that this will move the polls but I do think that it will lose the Lib Dems members unless Clegg and the leadership are seen to be actively engaged in stamping out acceptance of this sort of behaviour.

    Crap. Clegg, Farron and Alexander have already said too much. They should STFU and take competent legal advice, before opening their traps again.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2014
    Nice to know the principle of innocent until proven guilty is alive and well in the UK today.

    Oh, hang on...
  • Stephen Tall ‏@stephentall 1m

    You can always rely on Chris Davies to take a delicate issue requiring political leadership and instead apply the sledgehammer of stupidity.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    antifrank said:

    @TSE This scandal does make me less inclined to vote Lib Dem. I accept that I'm a fairly unusual floating voter in many respects.

    Now that is interesting.

    I guess what drives my view, not everyone is interested in politics and follows the minutiae of stories like us.
    It's not the minutiae that bother me. It's the sense of the Lib Dem peers evidently regarding themselves as entitled men who are above criticism or censure from little people.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Evening all and as with every thread on the so called 2010 LibDem switchers, assuming they vote.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Come on, Mr. Brooke, you can hardly have expected any Chancellor to have moved this far and fast in so short a time!

    Well of course I can Mr P, that;s why I post what I post and have stopped voting blue. If GO had time to dick about with stupid budgets, nonsense dividing lines, internal bickering and other such stupidities then he had times to tackle reform but has just chosen not to. Frankly nobody will be in a much better position than GO for reform for quite some time but he has ignored his big chance to play politics.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Hard to believe calamity Clegg could make a bigger mess of the Rennard affair than he did when his very public blundering over it did so much to help the kippers in Eastleigh.

    But he has.

    Here's a fairly good summation of why the Rennard faction and the Cleggites are at each others throats.
    Clegg, Rennard and that ‘resignation’

    One source with a very good claim to know the working of Nick Clegg’s thoughts on the subject described the deputy prime minister to me as “the first leader to do something about (Chris Rennard)” – hardly consistent with the official line that the party reluctantly lost Chris Rennard’s services only due to diabetes. What actually seems to have happened is a secret agreement between the party bigwigs and Lord Rennard to keep the other reasons for his departure quiet.

    The truth is that in addition to the rumours of allegations about inappropriate behaviour (strongly denied by Lord Rennard) the Lib Dem leader, Nick Clegg, was amongst a growing number of figures in the party who thought Lord Rennard was past his sell-by date as a campaigning wizard.

    Nick Clegg complained privately after taking over the leadership of the Lib Dems of how the party’s chief executive hoarded information, didn’t pool it with colleagues using IT, kept it all in his head.

    Mr Clegg also complained about what he perceived as Lord Rennard’s lack of ambition for the Liberal Democrats. Mr Clegg wanted to aim for 100+ seats and Chris Rennard was wedded to a more focused campaign on a smaller number of seats, each fought with the tenacity of a by-election.

    By a twist of fate, that is exactly how Nick Clegg hopes to fight the next general election. But that wasn’t how he saw things in 2009.

    When Lord Rennard caught the headlines over his expenses, one senior activist tells me, the leadership saw the opportunity to ease him out of his post. There would be no mention of any allegations surrounding his behaviour and there would be an understanding that the party would refer to health grounds. Lord Rennard did indeed suffer from diabetes and went on a strict diet losing some weight immediately after leaving his job.

    http://blogs.channel4.com/gary-gibbon-on-politics/clegg-rennard-and-that-resignation/22302
    Doesn't matter if this does or does not get a huge amount more traction in the media.
    This is already doing severe damage inside the lib dems and it's going to cost Clegg dearly.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    RodCrosby said:

    IOS said:

    Neil

    Clegg needs to take ownership of this issue. This is the perfect opportunity for him to start slapping people down. I don't think that this will move the polls but I do think that it will lose the Lib Dems members unless Clegg and the leadership are seen to be actively engaged in stamping out acceptance of this sort of behaviour.

    Crap. Clegg, Farron and Alexander have already said too much. They should STFU and take competent legal advice, before opening their traps again.
    Leaving the overwhelming impression that they believe his behaviour was acceptable. I cant see how that would be better.
This discussion has been closed.