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Are you a one hole or two hole person? – politicalbetting.com

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  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    Leon said:

    For some reason the heat now in London feels quite oppressive, but it is "only" 31C, nothing outrageous

    Nor is the humidity that bad

    Odd. Perhaps it is the fact this has now dragged on for a week, and it doesn't get that cool at night

    Agreed. My conclusion has been that it’s the latter. The temperature difference from inside to outside has been so minimal for so long that nothing has been able to cool down enough over night. I just checked whether there was any point opening curtains and windows. There is not yet.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,838
    ping said:

    Good news about Salman Rushdie.

    We can’t let these Islamists win. It’s an awful, backward, violent and repressive ideology that is inimical to enlightenment principles.

    Fuck you, Foucault. Idiot.

    Huh? Explain the second part please. Is this a different Foucault?
  • Leon said:

    For some reason the heat now in London feels quite oppressive, but it is "only" 31C, nothing outrageous

    Nor is the humidity that bad

    Odd. Perhaps it is the fact this has now dragged on for a week, and it doesn't get that cool at night

    Bad news, dude. The humidity will reach 60% in a few hours...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    This must be the longest on topic in PB history.
    Isn't a hole merely an absence of solid matter?
  • MattW said:

    MattW said:

    biggles said:

    Carnyx said:
    Let me get this straight. One end of AN ISLAND WITH ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL is talking about importing water from the other end of AN ISLAND WITH ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL rather than desalination or building more sodding reservoirs?

    I'd say it's total BS. Distraction tactics for Nimbies.

    Having crippled HS2 to save £18bn and keep people in their aeroplanes and freight on the roads, some anon chinless wonder thinks they can pull £14bn (cost of the Coutour Canal a decade ago) out of thin air to build a route to Kielder Water. Current claimed cost would be more like £20-25bn. Final cost more like £50, perhaps?

    The entire max capacity of Kielder Water is 199M m3, which is the same as Rutland Water plus Graffham Water within 10%. The forecast capacity of the Abingdon setup, for which property purchases have been happening for decades, is about 75% of Kielder Water afaics, and is currently costed (2018) at approx £1.5bn.

    The economics are challenging to an extent that Stalin would blink.

    From another angle Thames Water put out 2.4bn l of water per day, and leak approx 600m l/day - a number down from 700m l/day.

    They are committed to a further 20% reduction by 2030.

    I just don't see a "canal" as a credible option.
    And yet it is already being done. Anglian Water - to their great credit - have spent the last few years planning and constructing a large main to transfer water from the north of their region to the south. Construction is going on right now in the fields around my village. And very well planned and thought out it is as well. They have held close discussions with all communities along the route and have actively replanned sections to avoid areas of archaeological, natural or social concern.

    The idea that this cannot be done just shows both a lack of imagination and realism. It is already happening and more will be done.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-57602841

    Oh and it has bugger all to do with Boris and his ideas. Anglian Water are doing it because it makes commercial and practical sense.

    That's rather different from a single mega project costing 10 to 20 times more than a similarly sized local water storage facility to the one that will be accessed, which I'd suggest is the issue with the "Great Contour Canal".
    It is just one part of a massive network they are developing. Far more sensible than building reservoirs in places of low rainfall.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,951
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,838
    edited August 2022
    Topley's first 10 balls in the current hundred game shows why this is indeed cricket. Absolutely superb bowling doing de Cock with an excellent catch. 2 x4 and out. Every ball an event. It is good stuff, really.

    Edit and a second wicket for Topley. He is superb in this sort of format.
  • DavidL said:

    ping said:

    Good news about Salman Rushdie.

    We can’t let these Islamists win. It’s an awful, backward, violent and repressive ideology that is inimical to enlightenment principles.

    Fuck you, Foucault. Idiot.

    Huh? Explain the second part please. Is this a different Foucault?
    Michel Foucault, I think.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,838
    Leon said:

    For some reason the heat now in London feels quite oppressive, but it is "only" 31C, nothing outrageous

    Nor is the humidity that bad

    Odd. Perhaps it is the fact this has now dragged on for a week, and it doesn't get that cool at night

    Our thunderstorms have started and the sky is dark. Still no rain but its promised.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited August 2022
    HYUFD said:
    I know news commentary has to be dramatic and Truss is a figure of substance in the party, but really?

    Liz Truss, who was only elected to Parliament in 2010, has -- in a relatively short period of time -- established herself as a political force of nature who pursues her agenda with relentless vigor and unequivocal enthusiasm
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    DavidL said:

    ping said:

    Good news about Salman Rushdie.

    We can’t let these Islamists win. It’s an awful, backward, violent and repressive ideology that is inimical to enlightenment principles.

    Fuck you, Foucault. Idiot.

    Huh? Explain the second part please. Is this a different Foucault?
    https://davidfrum.com/article/foucault-and-the-iranian-revolution
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    dixiedean said:

    This must be the longest on topic in PB history.
    Isn't a hole merely an absence of solid matter?

    Especially when it is a canal or a reservoir (ideally: silting aside).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,838
    dixiedean said:

    This must be the longest on topic in PB history.
    Isn't a hole merely an absence of solid matter?

    Not sure about that. A black hole, for example, is the presence of unbelievably solid matter.
  • ping said:

    DavidL said:

    ping said:

    Good news about Salman Rushdie.

    We can’t let these Islamists win. It’s an awful, backward, violent and repressive ideology that is inimical to enlightenment principles.

    Fuck you, Foucault. Idiot.

    Huh? Explain the second part please. Is this a different Foucault?
    https://davidfrum.com/article/foucault-and-the-iranian-revolution
    I was right - Michel Foucault!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    MattW said:

    biggles said:

    Carnyx said:
    Let me get this straight. One end of AN ISLAND WITH ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL is talking about importing water from the other end of AN ISLAND WITH ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL rather than desalination or building more sodding reservoirs?

    I'd say it's total BS. Distraction tactics for Nimbies.

    Having crippled HS2 to save £18bn and keep people in their aeroplanes and freight on the roads, some anon chinless wonder thinks they can pull £14bn (cost of the Coutour Canal a decade ago) out of thin air to build a route to Kielder Water. Current claimed cost would be more like £20-25bn. Final cost more like £50, perhaps?

    The entire max capacity of Kielder Water is 199M m3, which is the same as Rutland Water plus Graffham Water within 10%. The forecast capacity of the Abingdon setup, for which property purchases have been happening for decades, is about 75% of Kielder Water afaics, and is currently costed (2018) at approx £1.5bn.

    The economics are challenging to an extent that Stalin would blink.

    From another angle Thames Water put out 2.4bn l of water per day, and leak approx 600m l/day - a number down from 700m l/day.

    They are committed to a further 20% reduction by 2030.

    I just don't see a "canal" as a credible option.
    Thanks - I had been wondering how liong it would take to empty Kielder in a SE context.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    lets define a hole - a hole is something that gets bigger the more you take out of it

    Question:

    If you heat up a brass ring will the hole in the middle get bigger or smaller?

    :smiley:
    Bigger. The ring is essentially a series of very short straight elements, each of which will expand along its length.
    On reflection, I'm wondering if that analysis is correct. But expansion of a rectangular block along any rectilinear axis is proportional to the length across which it expands. Crudely, the ring could be regarded as, if cut and straightened, a straight bar which will expand more along its length than across its width. So, intuitively, if one thinks of the ring as two identical semicircles in apposition, the heating will push out the mating faces more than the inner surface at 90 degrees to those junctions pushes inwards.
    I would think that “in the limit” here would be a decomposition into very many slightly keystone-shaped pieces. The outer edge being only a constant factor longer than the inner does not mean we can handwave it away and claim it’s made from very many thin rectangles instead of very many keystones. But it has been a long time since I have done maths properly.

    It seems clear, though, that the answer must be the same for all thicknesses of ring: either smaller or larger. So play “in the limit” in another way: what if it’s a really thick ring? Can the hole close entirely? I would guess that if a ring a mile wide with a hole a millimetre wide expands, the hole does not close. So it must stay the same or expand. No idea if that is true though.

    I love this question.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    This must be the longest on topic in PB history.
    Isn't a hole merely an absence of solid matter?

    Not sure about that. A black hole, for example, is the presence of unbelievably solid matter.
    That reminds me, something *especially* for @TSE :smile:
    http://erkdemon.blogspot.com/2009/12/black-holes-are-rude-in-french.html
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    This must be the longest on topic in PB history.
    Isn't a hole merely an absence of solid matter?

    Not sure about that. A black hole, for example, is the presence of unbelievably solid matter.
    A black hole isn't a hole though.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencefocus.com/space/is-a-black-hole-a-hole/amp/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited August 2022
    Been reading The Three Musketeers today. Just came across this comment during a bit in Portsmouth:

    It was one of those few and fine summer days, when Englishmen remember that there is a sun.

    Those were the days.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited August 2022
    carnforth said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    lets define a hole - a hole is something that gets bigger the more you take out of it

    Question:

    If you heat up a brass ring will the hole in the middle get bigger or smaller?

    :smiley:
    Bigger. The ring is essentially a series of very short straight elements, each of which will expand along its length.
    On reflection, I'm wondering if that analysis is correct. But expansion of a rectangular block along any rectilinear axis is proportional to the length across which it expands. Crudely, the ring could be regarded as, if cut and straightened, a straight bar which will expand more along its length than across its width. So, intuitively, if one thinks of the ring as two identical semicircles in apposition, the heating will push out the mating faces more than the inner surface at 90 degrees to those junctions pushes inwards.
    I would think that “in the limit” here would be a decomposition into very many slightly keystone-shaped pieces. The outer edge being only a constant factor longer than the inner does not mean we can handwave it away and claim it’s made from very many thin rectangles instead of very many keystones. But it has been a long time since I have done maths properly.

    It seems clear, though, that the answer must be the same for all thicknesses of ring: either smaller or larger. So play “in the limit” in another way: what if it’s a really thick ring? Can the hole close entirely? I would guess that if a ring a mile wide with a hole a millimetre wide expands, the hole does not close. So it must stay the same or expand. No idea if that is true though.

    I love this question.
    Indeed, does a disc tend to split from the outside or at the centre if one heats it? (Trees get radial "shakes" from the centre but they are much more complex structures, with anisotropic materials.)
  • YouGov poll of Tory members in the field.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    MattW said:

    We don't have a water shortage issue. We have a water distribution issue.
    Part of the island has a very much above average rainfall.
    Part of the island has a very much below average rainfall (6:1 ration between the first and second)

    The part of the island with above average rainfall has mountains and valleys.
    The part without does not.

    Transferring water from the bit with plentiful water to the water-stressed bit seems eminently sensible. The Romans knew the principle and followed it; it's hardly brand new.

    Building reservoirs in the flat and dry bit requires building up huge bunds. The proposals tend to go absurd (building bunded reservoirs way beyond the scope of any built before in this country), involve causing regular floods to existing towns by building on floodplains (as that's pretty much the only unbuilt area large enough) and causing considerable other damage.

    And staying totally reliant on a single water source (eg the Thames) to refill it. A prolonged drought affecting a single river in this country would screw it all up. Multi-region droughts affecting the entire country are far rarer than single-region droughts affecting (for example) the water-scarce South East.

    And its far quicker and cheaper to build a transfer system than build (up) a reservoir with 80' high walls extending for the length of the perimeter of a small or medium sized town. And then spend a couple or three years filling it from a river (without over-abstracting, and relying on said river having good years).

    I'd be quite interested in your thoughts on the economic costs, @Andy_Cooke . It does seem very challenging.

    I'd be interested in a comparison of the * of embankment of embanked reservoirs.
    Well, the STT cost was estimated as was the SESRO cost as part of RAPID Gate 1.

    The STT pipeline option was estimated at a CAPEX indicated of around £783m (300Ml/d) to £1013m (500Ml/d). The canal option would be more costly at £1145m.
    OPEX would be c£81m to £122m per year dependent on option taken.

    SESRO had a CAPEX in excess of £2000m (and the numbers looked lowballed; the cynic in me says "understandably, because TW really want this one"). Unlike STT, there was no comparative estimation possible, as no relevant similar project could be used).
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    carnforth said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    lets define a hole - a hole is something that gets bigger the more you take out of it

    Question:

    If you heat up a brass ring will the hole in the middle get bigger or smaller?

    :smiley:
    Bigger. The ring is essentially a series of very short straight elements, each of which will expand along its length.
    On reflection, I'm wondering if that analysis is correct. But expansion of a rectangular block along any rectilinear axis is proportional to the length across which it expands. Crudely, the ring could be regarded as, if cut and straightened, a straight bar which will expand more along its length than across its width. So, intuitively, if one thinks of the ring as two identical semicircles in apposition, the heating will push out the mating faces more than the inner surface at 90 degrees to those junctions pushes inwards.
    I would think that “in the limit” here would be a decomposition into very many slightly keystone-shaped pieces. The outer edge being only a constant factor longer than the inner does not mean we can handwave it away and claim it’s made from very many thin rectangles instead of very many keystones. But it has been a long time since I have done maths properly.

    It seems clear, though, that the answer must be the same for all thicknesses of ring: either smaller or larger. So play “in the limit” in another way: what if it’s a really thick ring? Can the hole close entirely? I would guess that if a ring a mile wide with a hole a millimetre wide expands, the hole does not close. So it must stay the same or expand. No idea if that is true though.

    I love this question.
    Edit: could be that the hole simply approaches being closed.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    HYUFD said:
    Maybe this is explained.
    But how would one go about privatising a lamp post?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    YouGov poll of Tory members in the field.

    Goody, we need yet more evidence that Truss is bossing this.
  • YouGov poll of Tory members in the field.

    "Do women have three holes or two?"
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    DavidL said:

    I want to report a weird meterological event.There is something precipitating from the sky. Preliminary investigations suggest the presence of water. I think it used to be called "rain".

    We've had it more often than you, in that case. But also had a good dollop of it on the flanks of a thunderstorm. My water barrel, emptied only yesrerday, is probably 2/3 full now.
  • Trussticles is TMay without the underlying decency and competence
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,312
    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    For some reason the heat now in London feels quite oppressive, but it is "only" 31C, nothing outrageous

    Nor is the humidity that bad

    Odd. Perhaps it is the fact this has now dragged on for a week, and it doesn't get that cool at night

    Agreed. My conclusion has been that it’s the latter. The temperature difference from inside to outside has been so minimal for so long that nothing has been able to cool down enough over night. I just checked whether there was any point opening curtains and windows. There is not yet.
    Yes. This is the first day I have actually felt off colour. Groggy, apathetic, bit of a headache. Also didn't sleep well

    I am sure it is the duration of the heat not the intensity of the temps, so much. My flat has been 25C or higher for ages, never cools off. A fan isn't cutting it

    Enough!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,170
    edited August 2022

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    biggles said:

    Carnyx said:
    Let me get this straight. One end of AN ISLAND WITH ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL is talking about importing water from the other end of AN ISLAND WITH ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL rather than desalination or building more sodding reservoirs?

    I'd say it's total BS. Distraction tactics for Nimbies.

    Having crippled HS2 to save £18bn and keep people in their aeroplanes and freight on the roads, some anon chinless wonder thinks they can pull £14bn (cost of the Coutour Canal a decade ago) out of thin air to build a route to Kielder Water. Current claimed cost would be more like £20-25bn. Final cost more like £50, perhaps?

    The entire max capacity of Kielder Water is 199M m3, which is the same as Rutland Water plus Graffham Water within 10%. The forecast capacity of the Abingdon setup, for which property purchases have been happening for decades, is about 75% of Kielder Water afaics, and is currently costed (2018) at approx £1.5bn.

    The economics are challenging to an extent that Stalin would blink.

    From another angle Thames Water put out 2.4bn l of water per day, and leak approx 600m l/day - a number down from 700m l/day.

    They are committed to a further 20% reduction by 2030.

    I just don't see a "canal" as a credible option.
    And yet it is already being done. Anglian Water - to their great credit - have spent the last few years planning and constructing a large main to transfer water from the north of their region to the south. Construction is going on right now in the fields around my village. And very well planned and thought out it is as well. They have held close discussions with all communities along the route and have actively replanned sections to avoid areas of archaeological, natural or social concern.

    The idea that this cannot be done just shows both a lack of imagination and realism. It is already happening and more will be done.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-57602841

    Oh and it has bugger all to do with Boris and his ideas. Anglian Water are doing it because it makes commercial and practical sense.

    That's rather different from a single mega project costing 10 to 20 times more than a similarly sized local water storage facility to the one that will be accessed, which I'd suggest is the issue with the "Great Contour Canal".
    It is just one part of a massive network they are developing. Far more sensible than building reservoirs in places of low rainfall.
    No problems whatsoever with small projects such as the one you mention to improve distribution; I don't think anyone is disagreeing on that.

    However, the £1.5bn Abingdon Reservoir remains an economically far more sensible option than the £20bn Grand Contour Canal. And for now both are red herrings - which I think is the game being played by whoever talked to the DM.

    It's "omigod we have a crisis here's what we can do" to keep the tabloids and the panicking public quiet, and to be seen to be doing something for the couple months whilst anyone is interested.

    Chipping away at everything, especially leaks and meters, will deal with nearly all the issue.

    The Planning Inspector assessing Abingdon stated that 'none of the water will be required by London before the 2060s', and submissions from Southern and SE Water that they did not need it.
    https://www.abingdonreservoir.org.uk/thameswater.html
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Punch up between the managers!
  • Spurs and Chelsea are such classless clubs.

    Led by idiots on the touchline.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    Maybe this is explained.
    But how would one go about privatising a lamp post?
    Charge people for parking under it?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,838
    ping said:

    DavidL said:

    ping said:

    Good news about Salman Rushdie.

    We can’t let these Islamists win. It’s an awful, backward, violent and repressive ideology that is inimical to enlightenment principles.

    Fuck you, Foucault. Idiot.

    Huh? Explain the second part please. Is this a different Foucault?
    https://davidfrum.com/article/foucault-and-the-iranian-revolution
    He died in 1984? Bit late to blame him for what happened in NY yesterday.
  • MattW said:

    biggles said:

    Carnyx said:
    Let me get this straight. One end of AN ISLAND WITH ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL is talking about importing water from the other end of AN ISLAND WITH ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL rather than desalination or building more sodding reservoirs?

    I'd say it's total BS. Distraction tactics for Nimbies.

    Having crippled HS2 to save £18bn and keep people in their aeroplanes and freight on the roads, some anon chinless wonder thinks they can pull £14bn (cost of the Coutour Canal a decade ago) out of thin air to build a route to Kielder Water. Current claimed cost would be more like £20-25bn. Final cost more like £50, perhaps?

    The entire max capacity of Kielder Water is 199M m3, which is the same as Rutland Water plus Graffham Water within 10%. The forecast capacity of the Abingdon setup, for which property purchases have been happening for decades, is about 75% of Kielder Water afaics, and is currently costed (2018) at approx £1.5bn.

    The economics are challenging to an extent that Stalin would blink.

    From another angle Thames Water put out 2.4bn l of water per day, and leak approx 600m l/day - a number down from 700m l/day.

    They are committed to a further 20% reduction by 2030.

    I just don't see a "canal" as a credible option.
    And yet it is already being done. Anglian Water - to their great credit - have spent the last few years planning and constructing a large main to transfer water from the north of their region to the south. Construction is going on right now in the fields around my village. And very well planned and thought out it is as well. They have held close discussions with all communities along the route and have actively replanned sections to avoid areas of archaeological, natural or social concern.

    The idea that this cannot be done just shows both a lack of imagination and realism. It is already happening and more will be done.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-57602841

    Oh and it has bugger all to do with Boris and his ideas. Anglian Water are doing it because it makes commercial and practical sense.

    That is Anglia distributing water in their region - their job. The Boris Crevasse was to take water from NornEngland, Scotland and Wales and steal it for that London. Not the same thing...
  • dixiedean said:

    Punch up between the managers!

    12 match bans for both managers.
  • DavidL said:

    ping said:

    DavidL said:

    ping said:

    Good news about Salman Rushdie.

    We can’t let these Islamists win. It’s an awful, backward, violent and repressive ideology that is inimical to enlightenment principles.

    Fuck you, Foucault. Idiot.

    Huh? Explain the second part please. Is this a different Foucault?
    https://davidfrum.com/article/foucault-and-the-iranian-revolution
    He died in 1984? Bit late to blame him for what happened in NY yesterday.
    But he "welcomed" the Ayatollahs coming to power in 1979.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052

    YouGov poll of Tory members in the field.

    What about the ones who have gone indoors?
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    There's also a Grand Union Canal restoration option, completely separate to STT, for up to a further 100Ml/day into the South East region, at a CAPEX of between £410m and £560m depending on sub-routes selected.

    Overall, it looks like the order of hundreds of millions are indicated as CAPEX for transfer options, and these would provide significant-to-considerable water inputs.

    Overall, where figures are available for reservoir proposals, the cost-to-benefit ratio looks better for transfer schemes than reservoirs (I've also taken a look at the South Lincolnshire reservoir and the Fenlands reservoir proposal, both of which look to be more solid in the cost estimates; Anglian Water have been considerably more open with their calculations).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,312
    dixiedean said:

    Punch up between the managers!

    Can't blame them. I want to touch someone. Anyone

    Definite increase in irritability on the Camden streets, too
  • Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Punch up between the managers!

    Can't blame them. I want to touch someone. Anyone

    Definite increase in irritability on the Camden streets, too
    Humidity WILL increase dramatically tonight.
  • rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    biggles said:

    Carnyx said:
    Let me get this straight. One end of AN ISLAND WITH ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL is talking about importing water from the other end of AN ISLAND WITH ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL rather than desalination or building more sodding reservoirs?

    I'd say it's total BS. Distraction tactics for Nimbies.

    Having crippled HS2 to save £18bn and keep people in their aeroplanes and freight on the roads, some anon chinless wonder thinks they can pull £14bn (cost of the Coutour Canal a decade ago) out of thin air to build a route to Kielder Water. Current claimed cost would be more like £20-25bn. Final cost more like £50, perhaps?

    The entire max capacity of Kielder Water is 199M m3, which is the same as Rutland Water plus Graffham Water within 10%. The forecast capacity of the Abingdon setup, for which property purchases have been happening for decades, is about 75% of Kielder Water afaics, and is currently costed (2018) at approx £1.5bn.

    The economics are challenging to an extent that Stalin would blink.

    From another angle Thames Water put out 2.4bn l of water per day, and leak approx 600m l/day - a number down from 700m l/day.

    They are committed to a further 20% reduction by 2030.

    I just don't see a "canal" as a credible option.
    And yet it is already being done. Anglian Water - to their great credit - have spent the last few years planning and constructing a large main to transfer water from the north of their region to the south. Construction is going on right now in the fields around my village. And very well planned and thought out it is as well. They have held close discussions with all communities along the route and have actively replanned sections to avoid areas of archaeological, natural or social concern.

    The idea that this cannot be done just shows both a lack of imagination and realism. It is already happening and more will be done.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-57602841

    Oh and it has bugger all to do with Boris and his ideas. Anglian Water are doing it because it makes commercial and practical sense.

    The key is making sure that the financial incentives for the water companies are correct.
    My oldest friend (and best man at my wedding) works for one of the big water companies doing future usage prediction work. He has to try to predict the probable water usage 5, 10, 20 and more years into the future The problem is simple. We are building too many houses in the South and East of the country where, even with normal or slightly above average rainfall, there is not enough water in the aquifers to supply all the needs. This has been predicted for the last 30 years or more and the water companies continually complain they are allowed no input into planning of new developments. They are simply told they have to supply the necessary water for however many houses the local councils decide to allow.

    The answer of course is to stop building houses in the south and east and start building them in other parts of the country. But that is neither politically nor probably economically and socially acceptable.

    Droughts will make it all worse but the underlying issue is excessive usage not reduced supply.
    But that can't be right. BR assures us - no, DEMANDS - that we concrete over every inch of southern England. And that the market will provide. So your so-called "expert" friend must be wrong.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,838
    biggles said:

    YouGov poll of Tory members in the field.

    What about the ones who have gone indoors?
    Its too hot to be inside. But here it rains!
  • Unconfirmed reports Thomas Tuchel is set to face Antonio Conte on the Usyk vs Joshua II undercard.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    edited August 2022
    @MattW - The capex costs look to be on the £2.6m-£4.1m per million litres per day cost for transfer schemes, and between £5.5m and £9.1m per million litres per day for the reservoir schemes (taking the lowest cost option for each), so transfer schemes do look to compare at least in the same ballpark as reservoir schemes (well, they're invariably better so far, but being as conservative as possible)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    Dynamo said:

    kinabalu said:

    Thus could be a STRAWman (heh heh heh big chuckles!) but what I'm wondering, now I find I'm having to, is whether a 'hole' is more about its visible opening or the depth. At either extreme - a big opening and little depth (eg a paddling pool) or very deep with only a tiny opening (eg I actually can't think of anything) - it probably ceases to be a hole in any meaningful sense, doesn't it, so both factors must be salient.

    A hole in a wall can have any opening to depth ratio if you know it comes out the other side.

    If you know it doesn't come out the other side, then too big an opening to depth ratio stops it being a hole, but a very small opening to depth ratio is fine.

    A grave is certainly a kind of hole in the ground.
    Yes thanks - I think that's spot on and squares my circle.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,838

    DavidL said:

    ping said:

    DavidL said:

    ping said:

    Good news about Salman Rushdie.

    We can’t let these Islamists win. It’s an awful, backward, violent and repressive ideology that is inimical to enlightenment principles.

    Fuck you, Foucault. Idiot.

    Huh? Explain the second part please. Is this a different Foucault?
    https://davidfrum.com/article/foucault-and-the-iranian-revolution
    He died in 1984? Bit late to blame him for what happened in NY yesterday.
    But he "welcomed" the Ayatollahs coming to power in 1979.
    Well, he was wrong. They are a bunch of atavistic arseholes. But so what?
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    biggles said:

    Carnyx said:
    Let me get this straight. One end of AN ISLAND WITH ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL is talking about importing water from the other end of AN ISLAND WITH ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL rather than desalination or building more sodding reservoirs?

    I'd say it's total BS. Distraction tactics for Nimbies.

    Having crippled HS2 to save £18bn and keep people in their aeroplanes and freight on the roads, some anon chinless wonder thinks they can pull £14bn (cost of the Coutour Canal a decade ago) out of thin air to build a route to Kielder Water. Current claimed cost would be more like £20-25bn. Final cost more like £50, perhaps?

    The entire max capacity of Kielder Water is 199M m3, which is the same as Rutland Water plus Graffham Water within 10%. The forecast capacity of the Abingdon setup, for which property purchases have been happening for decades, is about 75% of Kielder Water afaics, and is currently costed (2018) at approx £1.5bn.

    The economics are challenging to an extent that Stalin would blink.

    From another angle Thames Water put out 2.4bn l of water per day, and leak approx 600m l/day - a number down from 700m l/day.

    They are committed to a further 20% reduction by 2030.

    I just don't see a "canal" as a credible option.
    And yet it is already being done. Anglian Water - to their great credit - have spent the last few years planning and constructing a large main to transfer water from the north of their region to the south. Construction is going on right now in the fields around my village. And very well planned and thought out it is as well. They have held close discussions with all communities along the route and have actively replanned sections to avoid areas of archaeological, natural or social concern.

    The idea that this cannot be done just shows both a lack of imagination and realism. It is already happening and more will be done.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-57602841

    Oh and it has bugger all to do with Boris and his ideas. Anglian Water are doing it because it makes commercial and practical sense.

    That's rather different from a single mega project costing 10 to 20 times more than a similarly sized local water storage facility to the one that will be accessed, which I'd suggest is the issue with the "Great Contour Canal".
    It is just one part of a massive network they are developing. Far more sensible than building reservoirs in places of low rainfall.
    No problems whatsoever with small projects such as the one you mention to improve distribution; I don't think anyone is disagreeing on that.

    However, the £1.5bn Abingdon Reservoir remains an economically far more sensible option than the £20bn Grand Contour Canal. And for now both are red herrings - which I think is the game being played by whoever talked to the DM.

    It's "omigod we have a crisis here's what we can do" to keep the tabloids and the panicking public quiet, and to be seen to be doing something for the couple months whilst anyone is interested.

    Chipping away at everything, especially leaks and meters, will deal with nearly all the issue.

    The Planning Inspector assessing Abingdon stated that 'none of the water will be required by London before the 2060s', and submissions from Southern and SE Water that they did not need it.
    https://www.abingdonreservoir.org.uk/thameswater.html
    Very true. And I notice that the major Thames Water reservoirs were all nearly 90% full as at the end of July (Farmoor at 89%, Lee Valley ones at 88%).

    And, as you point out, leak reduction provides a greater saving than ANY of these, as does demand reduction.

    - A 50% reduction in leaks would save 303Ml/day)
    - A 15% reduction in demand (still well above comparable nations) would save 360Ml/day. Given that metering alone, with no extra incentive, tends to give a 12% reduction all on its own as people get to see how much they use, that looks very plausible.

    Both could be actioned in under a decade, easily.

    The transfer schemes make sense, anyway, but should never be used as an excuse to avoid the top two. And these could be actioned in the near term (you could get an extra 600Ml/day into the South East by the two ones I've mentioned already).

    SESRO wouldn't be available before I'm in my seventies, even with a following wind and a megaproject coming in on time for the first time in, well, forever (especially one where no-one involved has done anything like it). And I'm still in my forties.
  • Just look at that flex from Conte.


  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    For some reason the heat now in London feels quite oppressive, but it is "only" 31C, nothing outrageous

    Nor is the humidity that bad

    Odd. Perhaps it is the fact this has now dragged on for a week, and it doesn't get that cool at night

    Agreed. My conclusion has been that it’s the latter. The temperature difference from inside to outside has been so minimal for so long that nothing has been able to cool down enough over night. I just checked whether there was any point opening curtains and windows. There is not yet.
    Yes. This is the first day I have actually felt off colour. Groggy, apathetic, bit of a headache. Also didn't sleep well

    I am sure it is the duration of the heat not the intensity of the temps, so much. My flat has been 25C or higher for ages, never cools off. A fan isn't cutting it

    Enough!
    Cold shower?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,635
    edited August 2022
    Two of the biggest energy suppliers are calling for the creation of a special fund that would allow the industry to freeze customers’ bills for two years and spread the cost of the gas-price crisis over a decade or more.

    ScottishPower and Eon are pushing for a bold scheme that would lighten the pressure on millions this winter, but require billions of pounds’ worth of loans from banks. Keith Anderson, ScottishPower’s chief executive, acknowledged that the scale of the idea made it unusual, but he said this weekend: “Unprecedented times call for unprecedented action.”

    Families on default energy tariffs face a leap in their annual bills from £1,971 to an estimated £3,582 in October, when the price cap set by Ofgem goes up. Research firm Cornwall Insight predicts that bills will rise to £4,426 a year next April, before falling back. Ofgem is due to announce the level of the next price cap on August 26. It comes into effect on October 1. Energy bosses have said it is imperative to find a solution before then.

    Boris Johnson and chancellor Nadhim Zahawi met representatives of 15 energy companies last week as personal finance campaigner Martin Lewis warned of a “national financial cataclysm”, saying that the “zombie” government had to take action before September 5, when the Tory leadership race is due to end.

    Under the scheme being pitched by ScottishPower and Eon, a “deficit fund” would be set up and underpinned by a government guarantee. The fund would borrow billions of pounds from commercial banks, such as Barclays, which was interested in a previous iteration of the idea. Energy suppliers would then cap the bills of customers on default tariffs at the current level of £1,971 for two years, and fund the difference between that and the wholesale price by drawing down from the deficit fund.

    The loans would be repaid over 10 to 15 years, either by suppliers adding a small surcharge to customers’ bills, or through adding the cost to general taxation. An industry source said the two-year period would give ministers and bosses time to rethink the wholesale energy market, including measures such as unlinking electricity prices from gas prices.

    If the fund were to cover all 22 million households on default tariffs, it would need about £50 billion from banks. If it were to cover only the most vulnerable, it would still require more than £20 billion.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/energy-chiefs-push-for-bailout-fund-to-cut-bills-27hz8kn6g
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,170

    @MattW - The capex costs look to be on the £2.6m-£4.1m per million litres per day cost for transfer schemes, and between £5.5m and £9.1m per million litres per day for the reservoir schemes (taking the lowest cost option for each), so transfer schemes do look to compare at least in the same ballpark as reservoir schemes (well, they're invariably better so far, but being as conservative as possible)

    Thanks.
  • I’ve also still got loads of cucumbers growing - I think those will be numbers forty nine and fifty, from one plant. With more to come.

    And I’m finally growing peppers. The plant took an age to make it into the sun, but now it has there are about 8 of these new fruit. If the sun stays bright I might get fancy long orange peppers too!


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,154

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Carnyx said:
    Let me get this straight. One end of AN ISLAND WITH ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL is talking about importing water from the other end of AN ISLAND WITH ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL rather than desalination or building more sodding reservoirs?

    Land in England, particularly the South of England, is pretty expensive. Flooding more of it to create more reservoirs doesn't seem to be a particularly good use of land. Similarly, we are in the middle of an energy crisis and desalination is ruinously energy-intensive. This also does not seem to be an optimal response. By contrast, there seems to be more than enough water in the north and the west of the island, so moving it about would seem like a logical approach - assuming you cannot convince people living in the south to move themselves to the water.
    I don’t accept that it is hard to build new reservoirs. If it’s done sympathetically it’s just a nice lake and no one can sensibly object, even in the centre of the green belt where nothing else can be built.

    Rutland Water is very nice indeed.
    It sounds a weird and quite shit proposal. Build more reservoirs. There has been a quite deliberate policy of not building them, due to EU regulations seeking to promote the idea of water scarcity. Building them is a real 'Brexit opportunity', but sadly the same sacks of shit who gold plated the EU policies are still running the show. If Liz turns this around, we'll know that we have a winner. The exact same is true at the other end of the spectrum on dredging.
    That's not strictly true: the EU has been a barrier to building new reservoirs because they have mandated a ridiculous amount of red tape arrive environmental impact.
    How else would they do it?
    You are assuming malicious intent, rather than a cumbersome bureaucracy that lacks sufficient democratic checks and balances.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,312
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    For some reason the heat now in London feels quite oppressive, but it is "only" 31C, nothing outrageous

    Nor is the humidity that bad

    Odd. Perhaps it is the fact this has now dragged on for a week, and it doesn't get that cool at night

    Agreed. My conclusion has been that it’s the latter. The temperature difference from inside to outside has been so minimal for so long that nothing has been able to cool down enough over night. I just checked whether there was any point opening curtains and windows. There is not yet.
    Yes. This is the first day I have actually felt off colour. Groggy, apathetic, bit of a headache. Also didn't sleep well

    I am sure it is the duration of the heat not the intensity of the temps, so much. My flat has been 25C or higher for ages, never cools off. A fan isn't cutting it

    Enough!
    Cold shower?
    I've had a lukewarm shower and now an ice cold G&T. Does seem to be helping

    Off to a Little Venice beer garden in 20 minutes. That should help, too
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,838

    Two of the biggest energy suppliers are calling for the creation of a special fund that would allow the industry to freeze customers’ bills for two years and spread the cost of the gas-price crisis over a decade or more.

    ScottishPower and Eon are pushing for a bold scheme that would lighten the pressure on millions this winter, but require billions of pounds’ worth of loans from banks. Keith Anderson, ScottishPower’s chief executive, acknowledged that the scale of the idea made it unusual, but he said this weekend: “Unprecedented times call for unprecedented action.”

    Families on default energy tariffs face a leap in their annual bills from £1,971 to an estimated £3,582 in October, when the price cap set by Ofgem goes up. Research firm Cornwall Insight predicts that bills will rise to £4,426 a year next April, before falling back. Ofgem is due to announce the level of the next price cap on August 26. It comes into effect on October 1. Energy bosses have said it is imperative to find a solution before then.

    Boris Johnson and chancellor Nadhim Zahawi met representatives of 15 energy companies last week as personal finance campaigner Martin Lewis warned of a “national financial cataclysm”, saying that the “zombie” government had to take action before September 5, when the Tory leadership race is due to end.

    Under the scheme being pitched by ScottishPower and Eon, a “deficit fund” would be set up and underpinned by a government guarantee. The fund would borrow billions of pounds from commercial banks, such as Barclays, which was interested in a previous iteration of the idea. Energy suppliers would then cap the bills of customers on default tariffs at the current level of £1,971 for two years, and fund the difference between that and the wholesale price by drawing down from the deficit fund.

    The loans would be repaid over 10 to 15 years, either by suppliers adding a small surcharge to customers’ bills, or through adding the cost to general taxation. An industry source said the two-year period would give ministers and bosses time to rethink the wholesale energy market, including measures such as unlinking electricity prices from gas prices.

    If the fund were to cover all 22 million households on default tariffs, it would need about £50 billion from banks. If it were to cover only the most vulnerable, it would still require more than £20 billion.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/energy-chiefs-push-for-bailout-fund-to-cut-bills-27hz8kn6g

    If we could be very confident that prices were going to be back to anything like normal in 2 years this might just about be a sensible response. But if they are just as high in 2 years time we would be in deep doodoo as would the energy providers. This is an unacceptable risk. The prospects of energy being back to 2020 prices or even similar in 2 years time are very small.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,170

    MattW said:

    biggles said:

    Carnyx said:
    Let me get this straight. One end of AN ISLAND WITH ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL is talking about importing water from the other end of AN ISLAND WITH ABOVE AVERAGE RAINFALL rather than desalination or building more sodding reservoirs?

    I'd say it's total BS. Distraction tactics for Nimbies.

    Having crippled HS2 to save £18bn and keep people in their aeroplanes and freight on the roads, some anon chinless wonder thinks they can pull £14bn (cost of the Coutour Canal a decade ago) out of thin air to build a route to Kielder Water. Current claimed cost would be more like £20-25bn. Final cost more like £50, perhaps?

    The entire max capacity of Kielder Water is 199M m3, which is the same as Rutland Water plus Graffham Water within 10%. The forecast capacity of the Abingdon setup, for which property purchases have been happening for decades, is about 75% of Kielder Water afaics, and is currently costed (2018) at approx £1.5bn.

    The economics are challenging to an extent that Stalin would blink.

    From another angle Thames Water put out 2.4bn l of water per day, and leak approx 600m l/day - a number down from 700m l/day.

    They are committed to a further 20% reduction by 2030.

    I just don't see a "canal" as a credible option.
    And yet it is already being done. Anglian Water - to their great credit - have spent the last few years planning and constructing a large main to transfer water from the north of their region to the south. Construction is going on right now in the fields around my village. And very well planned and thought out it is as well. They have held close discussions with all communities along the route and have actively replanned sections to avoid areas of archaeological, natural or social concern.

    The idea that this cannot be done just shows both a lack of imagination and realism. It is already happening and more will be done.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-57602841

    Oh and it has bugger all to do with Boris and his ideas. Anglian Water are doing it because it makes commercial and practical sense.

    That is Anglia distributing water in their region - their job. The Boris Crevasse was to take water from NornEngland, Scotland and Wales and steal it for that London. Not the same thing...
    Which is why I think it is a squirrel or a dead cat.

    Incidentally, just pottered down to the unmaintained 3/4 of the garden, and yes there is a decent blackberry harvest - but I need rain to plump them up, or 30l a day from the water butt.

    I also disturbed Reynard, who appears confident enough that I need to get my gauntlets on to tackle enough of the garden to ensure he is expelled.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945

    Two of the biggest energy suppliers are calling for the creation of a special fund that would allow the industry to freeze customers’ bills for two years and spread the cost of the gas-price crisis over a decade or more.

    ScottishPower and Eon are pushing for a bold scheme that would lighten the pressure on millions this winter, but require billions of pounds’ worth of loans from banks. Keith Anderson, ScottishPower’s chief executive, acknowledged that the scale of the idea made it unusual, but he said this weekend: “Unprecedented times call for unprecedented action.”

    Families on default energy tariffs face a leap in their annual bills from £1,971 to an estimated £3,582 in October, when the price cap set by Ofgem goes up. Research firm Cornwall Insight predicts that bills will rise to £4,426 a year next April, before falling back. Ofgem is due to announce the level of the next price cap on August 26. It comes into effect on October 1. Energy bosses have said it is imperative to find a solution before then.

    Boris Johnson and chancellor Nadhim Zahawi met representatives of 15 energy companies last week as personal finance campaigner Martin Lewis warned of a “national financial cataclysm”, saying that the “zombie” government had to take action before September 5, when the Tory leadership race is due to end.

    Under the scheme being pitched by ScottishPower and Eon, a “deficit fund” would be set up and underpinned by a government guarantee. The fund would borrow billions of pounds from commercial banks, such as Barclays, which was interested in a previous iteration of the idea. Energy suppliers would then cap the bills of customers on default tariffs at the current level of £1,971 for two years, and fund the difference between that and the wholesale price by drawing down from the deficit fund.

    The loans would be repaid over 10 to 15 years, either by suppliers adding a small surcharge to customers’ bills, or through adding the cost to general taxation. An industry source said the two-year period would give ministers and bosses time to rethink the wholesale energy market, including measures such as unlinking electricity prices from gas prices.

    If the fund were to cover all 22 million households on default tariffs, it would need about £50 billion from banks. If it were to cover only the most vulnerable, it would still require more than £20 billion.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/energy-chiefs-push-for-bailout-fund-to-cut-bills-27hz8kn6g

    Energy companies trying to find a favourable solution before a less favourable one is inevitably imposed on them?

    Or has the Don't Pay UK campaign actually got them rattled?

    Or, more likely, will millions be in a "can't pay" situation by January - meaning the energy companies will be looking to recover billions in debt they'll never claw back?
  • Liz Truss is going to be the Lady Jane Grey of politics, she's so bad even the youth wing of Sinn Fein are taking the piss out of her.




    https://twitter.com/Ogra_SF/status/1558770724793368576
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    DavidL said:

    Two of the biggest energy suppliers are calling for the creation of a special fund that would allow the industry to freeze customers’ bills for two years and spread the cost of the gas-price crisis over a decade or more.

    ScottishPower and Eon are pushing for a bold scheme that would lighten the pressure on millions this winter, but require billions of pounds’ worth of loans from banks. Keith Anderson, ScottishPower’s chief executive, acknowledged that the scale of the idea made it unusual, but he said this weekend: “Unprecedented times call for unprecedented action.”

    Families on default energy tariffs face a leap in their annual bills from £1,971 to an estimated £3,582 in October, when the price cap set by Ofgem goes up. Research firm Cornwall Insight predicts that bills will rise to £4,426 a year next April, before falling back. Ofgem is due to announce the level of the next price cap on August 26. It comes into effect on October 1. Energy bosses have said it is imperative to find a solution before then.

    Boris Johnson and chancellor Nadhim Zahawi met representatives of 15 energy companies last week as personal finance campaigner Martin Lewis warned of a “national financial cataclysm”, saying that the “zombie” government had to take action before September 5, when the Tory leadership race is due to end.

    Under the scheme being pitched by ScottishPower and Eon, a “deficit fund” would be set up and underpinned by a government guarantee. The fund would borrow billions of pounds from commercial banks, such as Barclays, which was interested in a previous iteration of the idea. Energy suppliers would then cap the bills of customers on default tariffs at the current level of £1,971 for two years, and fund the difference between that and the wholesale price by drawing down from the deficit fund.

    The loans would be repaid over 10 to 15 years, either by suppliers adding a small surcharge to customers’ bills, or through adding the cost to general taxation. An industry source said the two-year period would give ministers and bosses time to rethink the wholesale energy market, including measures such as unlinking electricity prices from gas prices.

    If the fund were to cover all 22 million households on default tariffs, it would need about £50 billion from banks. If it were to cover only the most vulnerable, it would still require more than £20 billion.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/energy-chiefs-push-for-bailout-fund-to-cut-bills-27hz8kn6g

    If we could be very confident that prices were going to be back to anything like normal in 2 years this might just about be a sensible response. But if they are just as high in 2 years time we would be in deep doodoo as would the energy providers. This is an unacceptable risk. The prospects of energy being back to 2020 prices or even similar in 2 years time are very small.
    Indeed. There's no guarantee that the War will be over.
    Nor, indeed, if it is, that what comes after isn't worse.
    However. I can't see these price rises happening now. We now have the Opposition and the energy companies saying they shouldn't.
    It will be a "brave" government which permits them now.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,838
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Two of the biggest energy suppliers are calling for the creation of a special fund that would allow the industry to freeze customers’ bills for two years and spread the cost of the gas-price crisis over a decade or more.

    ScottishPower and Eon are pushing for a bold scheme that would lighten the pressure on millions this winter, but require billions of pounds’ worth of loans from banks. Keith Anderson, ScottishPower’s chief executive, acknowledged that the scale of the idea made it unusual, but he said this weekend: “Unprecedented times call for unprecedented action.”

    Families on default energy tariffs face a leap in their annual bills from £1,971 to an estimated £3,582 in October, when the price cap set by Ofgem goes up. Research firm Cornwall Insight predicts that bills will rise to £4,426 a year next April, before falling back. Ofgem is due to announce the level of the next price cap on August 26. It comes into effect on October 1. Energy bosses have said it is imperative to find a solution before then.

    Boris Johnson and chancellor Nadhim Zahawi met representatives of 15 energy companies last week as personal finance campaigner Martin Lewis warned of a “national financial cataclysm”, saying that the “zombie” government had to take action before September 5, when the Tory leadership race is due to end.

    Under the scheme being pitched by ScottishPower and Eon, a “deficit fund” would be set up and underpinned by a government guarantee. The fund would borrow billions of pounds from commercial banks, such as Barclays, which was interested in a previous iteration of the idea. Energy suppliers would then cap the bills of customers on default tariffs at the current level of £1,971 for two years, and fund the difference between that and the wholesale price by drawing down from the deficit fund.

    The loans would be repaid over 10 to 15 years, either by suppliers adding a small surcharge to customers’ bills, or through adding the cost to general taxation. An industry source said the two-year period would give ministers and bosses time to rethink the wholesale energy market, including measures such as unlinking electricity prices from gas prices.

    If the fund were to cover all 22 million households on default tariffs, it would need about £50 billion from banks. If it were to cover only the most vulnerable, it would still require more than £20 billion.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/energy-chiefs-push-for-bailout-fund-to-cut-bills-27hz8kn6g

    If we could be very confident that prices were going to be back to anything like normal in 2 years this might just about be a sensible response. But if they are just as high in 2 years time we would be in deep doodoo as would the energy providers. This is an unacceptable risk. The prospects of energy being back to 2020 prices or even similar in 2 years time are very small.
    And, ultimately, these rather miss the point.

    World gas supply has fallen by about 10%.

    That means that world gas demand has to drop by 10%.

    Subsidizing gas so that British consumers can afford not to reduce their consumption just moves the problem somewhere else. (And the government in that somewhere else place probably thinks "oh, the easiest way to deal with this problem is to subsidize gas so that someone else is going to have to bear the brunt of reducing demand".)
    Yes, I was making that point earlier today. We need to adapt, insulate, find alternatives. We cannot pretend that nothing has changed.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    HYUFD said:
    What a sad and terrible thing all of this is when you stop and think about it - Boris Johnson as leader now followed by Liz Truss.

    I mean, this is the Conservative and Unionist Party of Great Britain we're talking about here, the Conservative and Unionist Party of Great Britain.

    And who I feel for the most is the fans. People like you. Your loyalty is being sorely abused. I think you should go on strike.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,170
    edited August 2022

    Two of the biggest energy suppliers are calling for the creation of a special fund that would allow the industry to freeze customers’ bills for two years and spread the cost of the gas-price crisis over a decade or more.

    ScottishPower and Eon are pushing for a bold scheme that would lighten the pressure on millions this winter, but require billions of pounds’ worth of loans from banks. Keith Anderson, ScottishPower’s chief executive, acknowledged that the scale of the idea made it unusual, but he said this weekend: “Unprecedented times call for unprecedented action.”

    Families on default energy tariffs face a leap in their annual bills from £1,971 to an estimated £3,582 in October, when the price cap set by Ofgem goes up. Research firm Cornwall Insight predicts that bills will rise to £4,426 a year next April, before falling back. Ofgem is due to announce the level of the next price cap on August 26. It comes into effect on October 1. Energy bosses have said it is imperative to find a solution before then.

    Boris Johnson and chancellor Nadhim Zahawi met representatives of 15 energy companies last week as personal finance campaigner Martin Lewis warned of a “national financial cataclysm”, saying that the “zombie” government had to take action before September 5, when the Tory leadership race is due to end.

    Under the scheme being pitched by ScottishPower and Eon, a “deficit fund” would be set up and underpinned by a government guarantee. The fund would borrow billions of pounds from commercial banks, such as Barclays, which was interested in a previous iteration of the idea. Energy suppliers would then cap the bills of customers on default tariffs at the current level of £1,971 for two years, and fund the difference between that and the wholesale price by drawing down from the deficit fund.

    The loans would be repaid over 10 to 15 years, either by suppliers adding a small surcharge to customers’ bills, or through adding the cost to general taxation. An industry source said the two-year period would give ministers and bosses time to rethink the wholesale energy market, including measures such as unlinking electricity prices from gas prices.

    If the fund were to cover all 22 million households on default tariffs, it would need about £50 billion from banks. If it were to cover only the most vulnerable, it would still require more than £20 billion.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/energy-chiefs-push-for-bailout-fund-to-cut-bills-27hz8kn6g

    Someone's doing some creative thinking - good. Though I'd be more inclined to secure it first against the assets of the companies.

    >Energy suppliers would then cap the bills of customers on default tariffs at the current level of £1,971 for two years, and fund the difference between that and the wholesale price by drawing down from the deficit fund.

    That's interesting, as it is currently fixed tariffs that are the rip off.

    £1971 is only the cap for a household using 2,900 kWh of E and 12,000 kWh of G, as it is actually defined as the price of the unit and the price of the standing charge.

    A very large number of households will use a lot less than that as they reduce their usage. so if teh standard 2.4 person family used to get to £1971 reduce their usage by 20%, they will actually pay a lot less at those rates. IMO that's one thing that the Gov't should have debunked, but they have been rearranging deckchairs on the Skylark.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,312
    If these are the summers we can now regularly expect (a big if) that is actually going to transform daily life, at least in southern England

    I remember climate changers, in the 1990s, saying we could expect London summers to be more like the Loire Valley in the 2020s-2030s, longer drier summers, wet winters, a few degrees warmer overall

    But this is more like the traditional climate of Burgundy, the Maconnais perhaps, or even further south? Will winters get harsher?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,312
    What area of western europe has long, quite sunny summers with an average of 25-27C, and the potential to reach 40C?

    Because that is where London and SE England is headed, maybe
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,170
    Leon said:

    If these are the summers we can now regularly expect (a big if) that is actually going to transform daily life, at least in southern England

    I remember climate changers, in the 1990s, saying we could expect London summers to be more like the Loire Valley in the 2020s-2030s, longer drier summers, wet winters, a few degrees warmer overall

    But this is more like the traditional climate of Burgundy, the Maconnais perhaps, or even further south? Will winters get harsher?

    Why would they? Is that not mainly a creature of the Gulf Stream?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,643
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    Maybe this is explained.
    But how would one go about privatising a lamp post?
    Hold street auctions. You could maybe get an international TV franchise out of it too, featuring vignettes about quirky Brits and their love of the local lamppost.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,312
    edited August 2022
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:
    What a sad and terrible thing all of this is when you stop and think about it - Boris Johnson as leader now followed by Liz Truss.

    I mean, this is the Conservative and Unionist Party of Great Britain we're talking about here, the Conservative and Unionist Party of Great Britain.

    And who I feel for the most is the fans. People like you. Your loyalty is being sorely abused. I think you should go on strike.
    WTF are you on about. The Tories have given us an actual creepy traitor, Ted Heath, a footling twat, John Major, a 12 year old, William Hague, an unelectable dolt, Ian Duncan Smith, and the Aspergery electoral disaster that is Theresa May

    In comparison to those Boris is a titan of charisma, and Liz Truss might be perfectly fine: we don't know yet
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,664
    Off topic - a large number of Rowans round me have ripe berries. Is that unusual? The internet isn't helping too much.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    If these are the summers we can now regularly expect (a big if) that is actually going to transform daily life, at least in southern England

    I remember climate changers, in the 1990s, saying we could expect London summers to be more like the Loire Valley in the 2020s-2030s, longer drier summers, wet winters, a few degrees warmer overall

    But this is more like the traditional climate of Burgundy, the Maconnais perhaps, or even further south? Will winters get harsher?

    Yes if gulf stream gets fucked up, else no. Not even global warming can convert us from island to continent.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Two of the biggest energy suppliers are calling for the creation of a special fund that would allow the industry to freeze customers’ bills for two years and spread the cost of the gas-price crisis over a decade or more.

    ScottishPower and Eon are pushing for a bold scheme that would lighten the pressure on millions this winter, but require billions of pounds’ worth of loans from banks. Keith Anderson, ScottishPower’s chief executive, acknowledged that the scale of the idea made it unusual, but he said this weekend: “Unprecedented times call for unprecedented action.”

    Families on default energy tariffs face a leap in their annual bills from £1,971 to an estimated £3,582 in October, when the price cap set by Ofgem goes up. Research firm Cornwall Insight predicts that bills will rise to £4,426 a year next April, before falling back. Ofgem is due to announce the level of the next price cap on August 26. It comes into effect on October 1. Energy bosses have said it is imperative to find a solution before then.

    Boris Johnson and chancellor Nadhim Zahawi met representatives of 15 energy companies last week as personal finance campaigner Martin Lewis warned of a “national financial cataclysm”, saying that the “zombie” government had to take action before September 5, when the Tory leadership race is due to end.

    Under the scheme being pitched by ScottishPower and Eon, a “deficit fund” would be set up and underpinned by a government guarantee. The fund would borrow billions of pounds from commercial banks, such as Barclays, which was interested in a previous iteration of the idea. Energy suppliers would then cap the bills of customers on default tariffs at the current level of £1,971 for two years, and fund the difference between that and the wholesale price by drawing down from the deficit fund.

    The loans would be repaid over 10 to 15 years, either by suppliers adding a small surcharge to customers’ bills, or through adding the cost to general taxation. An industry source said the two-year period would give ministers and bosses time to rethink the wholesale energy market, including measures such as unlinking electricity prices from gas prices.

    If the fund were to cover all 22 million households on default tariffs, it would need about £50 billion from banks. If it were to cover only the most vulnerable, it would still require more than £20 billion.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/energy-chiefs-push-for-bailout-fund-to-cut-bills-27hz8kn6g

    If we could be very confident that prices were going to be back to anything like normal in 2 years this might just about be a sensible response. But if they are just as high in 2 years time we would be in deep doodoo as would the energy providers. This is an unacceptable risk. The prospects of energy being back to 2020 prices or even similar in 2 years time are very small.
    And, ultimately, these rather miss the point.

    World gas supply has fallen by about 10%.

    That means that world gas demand has to drop by 10%.

    Subsidizing gas so that British consumers can afford not to reduce their consumption just moves the problem somewhere else. (And the government in that somewhere else place probably thinks "oh, the easiest way to deal with this problem is to subsidize gas so that someone else is going to have to bear the brunt of reducing demand".)
    Yes, I was making that point earlier today. We need to adapt, insulate, find alternatives. We cannot pretend that nothing has changed.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/google-searches-firewood-germany-have-exploded
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    If these are the summers we can now regularly expect (a big if) that is actually going to transform daily life, at least in southern England

    I remember climate changers, in the 1990s, saying we could expect London summers to be more like the Loire Valley in the 2020s-2030s, longer drier summers, wet winters, a few degrees warmer overall

    But this is more like the traditional climate of Burgundy, the Maconnais perhaps, or even further south? Will winters get harsher?

    Thing is this is weather, not climate. If you look into it we are in a rather blocked pattern that has persisted. Weather does that from time to time. Eventually the default westerly flow will kick back in and we will get fed up with the rain again.
    Despite the declared drought, water is still flowing into homes and won’t stop doing so. We are on the cusp of some useful if not perfect rain for the next few days.

    We will be moving on to the next big topic before long - CoL again, I suspect, as soon as the new PM takes the keys from Johnson.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,664
    DavidL said:

    Two of the biggest energy suppliers are calling for the creation of a special fund that would allow the industry to freeze customers’ bills for two years and spread the cost of the gas-price crisis over a decade or more.

    ScottishPower and Eon are pushing for a bold scheme that would lighten the pressure on millions this winter, but require billions of pounds’ worth of loans from banks. Keith Anderson, ScottishPower’s chief executive, acknowledged that the scale of the idea made it unusual, but he said this weekend: “Unprecedented times call for unprecedented action.”

    Families on default energy tariffs face a leap in their annual bills from £1,971 to an estimated £3,582 in October, when the price cap set by Ofgem goes up. Research firm Cornwall Insight predicts that bills will rise to £4,426 a year next April, before falling back. Ofgem is due to announce the level of the next price cap on August 26. It comes into effect on October 1. Energy bosses have said it is imperative to find a solution before then.

    Boris Johnson and chancellor Nadhim Zahawi met representatives of 15 energy companies last week as personal finance campaigner Martin Lewis warned of a “national financial cataclysm”, saying that the “zombie” government had to take action before September 5, when the Tory leadership race is due to end.

    Under the scheme being pitched by ScottishPower and Eon, a “deficit fund” would be set up and underpinned by a government guarantee. The fund would borrow billions of pounds from commercial banks, such as Barclays, which was interested in a previous iteration of the idea. Energy suppliers would then cap the bills of customers on default tariffs at the current level of £1,971 for two years, and fund the difference between that and the wholesale price by drawing down from the deficit fund.

    The loans would be repaid over 10 to 15 years, either by suppliers adding a small surcharge to customers’ bills, or through adding the cost to general taxation. An industry source said the two-year period would give ministers and bosses time to rethink the wholesale energy market, including measures such as unlinking electricity prices from gas prices.

    If the fund were to cover all 22 million households on default tariffs, it would need about £50 billion from banks. If it were to cover only the most vulnerable, it would still require more than £20 billion.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/energy-chiefs-push-for-bailout-fund-to-cut-bills-27hz8kn6g

    If we could be very confident that prices were going to be back to anything like normal in 2 years this might just about be a sensible response. But if they are just as high in 2 years time we would be in deep doodoo as would the energy providers. This is an unacceptable risk. The prospects of energy being back to 2020 prices or even similar in 2 years time are very small.
    Even if they are just as high, you could smooth the transition (and assist with family budgeting), rather than a one-off huge increase. Would give time for other elements of inflation to chill out a bit, too.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,312

    Liz Truss is going to be the Lady Jane Grey of politics, she's so bad even the youth wing of Sinn Fein are taking the piss out of her.




    https://twitter.com/Ogra_SF/status/1558770724793368576

    I predict that Liz Truss is going to surprise you. On the upside. And these predictions of her catastrophic ineptitude will look foolish

    Of course, I might like the fool in six months time. I just have a hunch she's cannier than most suspect
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Great travel piece in the FT;

    https://www.ft.com/content/064ef8f6-dad6-4099-8ea8-e53b0d94e9b0

    “Wheels in the wild: a bikepacking trek in Kyrgyzstan”
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    If these are the summers we can now regularly expect (a big if) that is actually going to transform daily life, at least in southern England

    I remember climate changers, in the 1990s, saying we could expect London summers to be more like the Loire Valley in the 2020s-2030s, longer drier summers, wet winters, a few degrees warmer overall

    But this is more like the traditional climate of Burgundy, the Maconnais perhaps, or even further south? Will winters get harsher?

    Yes if gulf stream gets fucked up, else no. Not even global warming can convert us from island to continent.
    Papers suggesting the Gulf Stream is slowing have been widely debunked, so the island status will indeed persist. Enjoy the hot weather when it comes.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    Liz Truss is going to be the Lady Jane Grey of politics, she's so bad even the youth wing of Sinn Fein are taking the piss out of her.




    https://twitter.com/Ogra_SF/status/1558770724793368576

    I predict that Liz Truss is going to surprise you. On the upside. And these predictions of her catastrophic ineptitude will look foolish

    Of course, I might like the fool in six months time. I just have a hunch she's cannier than most suspect
    Lots on here are no fans of the Tories (to put it mildly) and they have taken great delight in every tiny event or misspeak that is magnified on social media to the power of 100. How many of us, subject to that level of scrutiny, would never cock up?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    edited August 2022
    Tomorrow is the 75th anniversary of the Indian partition.

    I’m planning to reread Midnight’s Children, which is arguably Rushdie’s best book. It’s decades since I read it, so will be interesting to see how it reads today.

    Great news that he appears to have pulled through.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,312
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    If these are the summers we can now regularly expect (a big if) that is actually going to transform daily life, at least in southern England

    I remember climate changers, in the 1990s, saying we could expect London summers to be more like the Loire Valley in the 2020s-2030s, longer drier summers, wet winters, a few degrees warmer overall

    But this is more like the traditional climate of Burgundy, the Maconnais perhaps, or even further south? Will winters get harsher?

    Yes if gulf stream gets fucked up, else no. Not even global warming can convert us from island to continent.
    Yes, but that is the theory. Gulf Stream will weaken. Or maybe it already is. I'm not sure all these theories have been "debunked"

    https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/why-is-the-gulf-stream-slowing-down-and-what-does-it-mean-for-the-future-of-the-uks-climate/
  • Eabhal said:

    Off topic - a large number of Rowans round me have ripe berries. Is that unusual? The internet isn't helping too much.

    Isn't it the World Cup?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,664

    Leon said:

    If these are the summers we can now regularly expect (a big if) that is actually going to transform daily life, at least in southern England

    I remember climate changers, in the 1990s, saying we could expect London summers to be more like the Loire Valley in the 2020s-2030s, longer drier summers, wet winters, a few degrees warmer overall

    But this is more like the traditional climate of Burgundy, the Maconnais perhaps, or even further south? Will winters get harsher?

    Thing is this is weather, not climate. If you look into it we are in a rather blocked pattern that has persisted. Weather does that from time to time. Eventually the default westerly flow will kick back in and we will get fed up with the rain again.
    Despite the declared drought, water is still flowing into homes and won’t stop doing so. We are on the cusp of some useful if not perfect rain for the next few days.

    We will be moving on to the next big topic before long - CoL again, I suspect, as soon as the new PM takes the keys from Johnson.
    The evidence would suggest that the weather is influenced quite strongly by the underlying climate. Just look at the top 10 recorded temperatures in the UK. Notice a pattern?
  • Eabhal said:

    Off topic - a large number of Rowans round me have ripe berries. Is that unusual? The internet isn't helping too much.

    I didn't know Blackadder and Mr Bean could bear fruit like that.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    For some reason the heat now in London feels quite oppressive, but it is "only" 31C, nothing outrageous

    Nor is the humidity that bad

    Odd. Perhaps it is the fact this has now dragged on for a week, and it doesn't get that cool at night

    Agreed. My conclusion has been that it’s the latter. The temperature difference from inside to outside has been so minimal for so long that nothing has been able to cool down enough over night. I just checked whether there was any point opening curtains and windows. There is not yet.
    Yes. This is the first day I have actually felt off colour. Groggy, apathetic, bit of a headache. Also didn't sleep well

    I am sure it is the duration of the heat not the intensity of the temps, so much. My flat has been 25C or higher for ages, never cools off. A fan isn't cutting it

    Enough!
    You sure it isn't Cov?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,242

    Eabhal said:

    Off topic - a large number of Rowans round me have ripe berries. Is that unusual? The internet isn't helping too much.

    I didn't know Blackadder and Mr Bean could bear fruit like that.
    You can identify as a fruit-bearer these days
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,170
    This seems to be an on topic / off topic day, so here's a note from an acquaintance as to how he keeps his passive house (in Salisbury) cool:

    MVHR = ventilation system. "The blinds" are external blinds. The main feature is a passive house is that heat is very slow getting in and out, and stays around.

    Our secret weapon is the little personal weather station (PWS) in the garden and with it's help this is how we've kept the house cool:

    In the evening when the outside temperature according to the PWS is below our target internal temperature of 21 degrees all doors and windows are opened and the MVHR ramped up. Overnight all the inward tilting windows are left open with the MVHR staying at a higher level and it stays like this until the PWS shows that the external temperature is rising towards our target 21 degrees - that happened at 07:50 this morning.

    As soon as the exterior temperature reaches our target then all doors and windows are closed and the MVHR is reduced to its lowest setting, we monitor the air quality with a couple of CO2 monitors and increase the MVHR speed as required to keep good air quality. All sun facing windows have the blinds down, we have the mesh style blinds that don't block off the light but stop lots of UV.

    With this technique our hallway temperature has peaked in the early evening at around 21-22 degrees and the kitchen/dining room which has lots of east and south facing glazing has stayed below 24 degrees. As soon as we open up we get rid of most of that unwanted heat. The hallway starts in the mornings around 19-20 degrees.

    https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/28506-keeping-a-passive-house-cool/
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Eabhal said:

    Off topic - a large number of Rowans round me have ripe berries. Is that unusual? The internet isn't helping too much.

    Seem to be a little earlier but only a couple of weeks here.



  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    If these are the summers we can now regularly expect (a big if) that is actually going to transform daily life, at least in southern England

    I remember climate changers, in the 1990s, saying we could expect London summers to be more like the Loire Valley in the 2020s-2030s, longer drier summers, wet winters, a few degrees warmer overall

    But this is more like the traditional climate of Burgundy, the Maconnais perhaps, or even further south? Will winters get harsher?

    Thing is this is weather, not climate. If you look into it we are in a rather blocked pattern that has persisted. Weather does that from time to time. Eventually the default westerly flow will kick back in and we will get fed up with the rain again.
    Despite the declared drought, water is still flowing into homes and won’t stop doing so. We are on the cusp of some useful if not perfect rain for the next few days.

    We will be moving on to the next big topic before long - CoL again, I suspect, as soon as the new PM takes the keys from Johnson.
    The evidence would suggest that the weather is influenced quite strongly by the underlying climate. Just look at the top 10 recorded temperatures in the UK. Notice a pattern?
    Yes, absolutely the temps are rising globally, and no one serious doubts that. My point is the weather on our tiny island is determined by weather patterns, and that is the reason for the current weather, not climate change. Climate change has made the heat worse, for sure.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Why eco-alarmists are wrong about almost everything
    The Great Barrier Reef is not dying, and the world is not coming to an end.
    Brendan O'Neill"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/08/14/why-eco-alarmists-are-wrong-about-almost-everything/

    This should be read two ways:

    Firstly, great news about the reef.

    Secondly, an acknowledgement that the Australian government implemented a lot of environmental legislation that prevented mining runoff in Queensland from poisoning the reef.
    "We don't hear about the hole in the Ozone layer anymore, bunch of alarmist nonsense wasn't it?!!?"
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    If these are the summers we can now regularly expect (a big if) that is actually going to transform daily life, at least in southern England

    I remember climate changers, in the 1990s, saying we could expect London summers to be more like the Loire Valley in the 2020s-2030s, longer drier summers, wet winters, a few degrees warmer overall

    But this is more like the traditional climate of Burgundy, the Maconnais perhaps, or even further south? Will winters get harsher?

    Yes if gulf stream gets fucked up, else no. Not even global warming can convert us from island to continent.
    Yes, but that is the theory. Gulf Stream will weaken. Or maybe it already is. I'm not sure all these theories have been "debunked"

    https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/why-is-the-gulf-stream-slowing-down-and-what-does-it-mean-for-the-future-of-the-uks-climate/
    Some claim were made a while ago for slowing, but now not thought correct.
    Yes, if the Gulf Stream did shut down, hello much snowier winters, but there no evidence of it happening yet.
  • Leon said:

    Liz Truss is going to be the Lady Jane Grey of politics, she's so bad even the youth wing of Sinn Fein are taking the piss out of her.




    https://twitter.com/Ogra_SF/status/1558770724793368576

    I predict that Liz Truss is going to surprise you. On the upside. And these predictions of her catastrophic ineptitude will look foolish

    Of course, I might like the fool in six months time. I just have a hunch she's cannier than most suspect
    "There was a moment last night, when she was sandwiched between the two LibDem dwarves and the SNP tribesmen, where I thought, 'Wow, I could really spend the rest of my life with this woman'."
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    Liz Truss is going to be the Lady Jane Grey of politics, she's so bad even the youth wing of Sinn Fein are taking the piss out of her.




    https://twitter.com/Ogra_SF/status/1558770724793368576

    Hold on a sec. Aren’t you to this day a vocal apologist for the clusterf*cl of a govt that was the Coalition?

    Which cut our strategic natural gas storage off at the knees.

    That cow towed to the Russian regime and willingly accepted its money (even after the latter invaded Crimea and used radiological weapons on British soil), rather than underlining to allies the collective danger of them relying on Russian hydrocarbons?

    Which failed to move forward domestic nuclear, so in awe were they with achieving a superficially balanced budget and a pathetic schoolboy crush on the Chinese Communist Party, leading to a dishonest sleight of hand to shift the construction liability off balance sheet and recklessly hand the Chinese a foothold in the most key and sensitive of industries?

    That spurned tidal? Set solar back years? Which imposed “windfall” taxes on the North Sea which achieved nothing apart from disincentivising investment?

    Rather than snide smugly about a Brexit wedge issue such as this tweet, I personally am ready to give Truss a chance. She can’t do worse than those chimps “The Quad”, who to a man have shown their true colours since leaving office with the company they’ve kept. Chinese autocrats, Russian oligarchs, crooked commodity barons and Mark Zuckerburg. Not sure which is scoring worst on that front!

    If she turns out to be shit then we’ll all vote against her (or not vote). But she deserves as much of a chance as any other incoming Prime Minister from any party, until her record in office says otherwise.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    If these are the summers we can now regularly expect (a big if) that is actually going to transform daily life, at least in southern England

    I remember climate changers, in the 1990s, saying we could expect London summers to be more like the Loire Valley in the 2020s-2030s, longer drier summers, wet winters, a few degrees warmer overall

    But this is more like the traditional climate of Burgundy, the Maconnais perhaps, or even further south? Will winters get harsher?

    Yes if gulf stream gets fucked up, else no. Not even global warming can convert us from island to continent.
    Yes, but that is the theory. Gulf Stream will weaken. Or maybe it already is. I'm not sure all these theories have been "debunked"

    https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/why-is-the-gulf-stream-slowing-down-and-what-does-it-mean-for-the-future-of-the-uks-climate/
    Some claim were made a while ago for slowing, but now not thought correct.
    Yes, if the Gulf Stream did shut down, hello much snowier winters, but there no evidence of it happening yet.
    There's also no evidence of my mortality, yet. The desalination theory looks pretty credible though.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    MattW said:

    This seems to be an on topic / off topic day, so here's a note from an acquaintance as to how he keeps his passive house (in Salisbury) cool:

    MVHR = ventilation system. "The blinds" are external blinds. The main feature is a passive house is that heat is very slow getting in and out, and stays around.

    Our secret weapon is the little personal weather station (PWS) in the garden and with it's help this is how we've kept the house cool:

    In the evening when the outside temperature according to the PWS is below our target internal temperature of 21 degrees all doors and windows are opened and the MVHR ramped up. Overnight all the inward tilting windows are left open with the MVHR staying at a higher level and it stays like this until the PWS shows that the external temperature is rising towards our target 21 degrees - that happened at 07:50 this morning.

    As soon as the exterior temperature reaches our target then all doors and windows are closed and the MVHR is reduced to its lowest setting, we monitor the air quality with a couple of CO2 monitors and increase the MVHR speed as required to keep good air quality. All sun facing windows have the blinds down, we have the mesh style blinds that don't block off the light but stop lots of UV.

    With this technique our hallway temperature has peaked in the early evening at around 21-22 degrees and the kitchen/dining room which has lots of east and south facing glazing has stayed below 24 degrees. As soon as we open up we get rid of most of that unwanted heat. The hallway starts in the mornings around 19-20 degrees.

    https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/28506-keeping-a-passive-house-cool/

    That's interesting. Is it an autonomous system that controls the windows and the like? I could imagine hooking up a Raspberry Pi with a simple PID controller running that automatically adjusts the windows for optimal cooling or heating depending on the weather.
This discussion has been closed.