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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If you thought the party you’d like to vote could win in yo

SystemSystem Posts: 11,007
edited April 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If you thought the party you’d like to vote could win in your seat then what would your choice be?

Interesting cross-breaks to YouGov question on who you’d vote for if CON/LAB/LD/UKIPhad chance in your seat twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/st…

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  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    First.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited April 2013
    My forecast for the number of local council UKIP seats on May 2nd:
    117
    Probably much too optimistic, but who knows?
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Are you taking any bets?
    MikeK said:

    My forecast for the number of local council UKIP seats on May 2nd:
    117
    Probably much too optimistic, but who knows?

  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Good Lord! The new German anti-€uro party is polling 19%.
    http://is.gd/TLZveq

    They're up in UKIP territory.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Are you taking any bets?

    MikeK said:

    My forecast for the number of local council UKIP seats on May 2nd:
    117
    Probably much too optimistic, but who knows?

    NO!

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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited April 2013
    MikeK said:

    My forecast for the number of local council UKIP seats on May 2nd:
    117
    Probably much too optimistic, but who knows?

    I was just browsing the Ladbrokes website, to see what the Bookie wonks think the result would be, and if I understand the odds correctly, they're predicting 50-100:

    <50 7/4
    50-100 13/8
    >100 7/4

    Those RandT boffins should stand ready for egg!

    http://sportsbeta.ladbrokes.com/politicsdetail?event=217018671
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645
    MikeK said:

    Good Lord! The new German anti-€uro party is polling 19%.
    http://is.gd/TLZveq

    They're up in UKIP territory.

    If they are really new, UKIP must be very jealous, as it's taken them years to arrive at the poin they are now. Differing circumstances make different breeding grounds I guess.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    FPT Carlotta

    Lord Ashcroft has precisely crafted the mission statement of UKIP:

    To cultivate disaffection, disillusionment, anxiety, distrust and grumpiness – and no longer for a cause, but as an end in itself.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Irene Short ‏@ipasho

    Clegg agrees with IDS,wealthy pensioners should give up benefits,so let millionaire cabinet members give up their MP expenses NOW,only fair.
    We're all in this together, remember Cammie?

    LOL
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    @SquareRoot.

    "Roger, Have you ever met the person you are slagging off? I think your comment says more about you and your personal prejudices than anything about the object of your rather nasty comment."


    I actually stole the sentiment from Peter Oborne someone I normally find unreadable but his description of Cameron and his henchmen as "an incestuous collection of louche, affluent, power-hungry and amoral Londoners" shows how wrong I was

    PS. What was your most recent username before "Square Root"?
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    kle4 said:

    MikeK said:

    Good Lord! The new German anti-€uro party is polling 19%.
    http://is.gd/TLZveq

    They're up in UKIP territory.

    If they are really new, UKIP must be very jealous, as it's taken them years to arrive at the poin they are now. Differing circumstances make different breeding grounds I guess.
    Anti-EU feeling is up all over the EU.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/24/continental-euroscepticism-rise

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/04/what-next-for-the-anti-euro-parties/
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013
    The party of Citoyen Hollande is up in arms about the cosy relationship between Angela Merkel and David Cameron.

    A draft text meant to feed into a French Socialist convention on Europe in June says the EU is being murdered by an alliance of the British Prime Minister and the "selfish intransigence" of Germany's Chancellor Merkel, reports Le Monde. The draft says France is the only "real" European government.

    Zut alors!

    As Farage is worrying the sheep with threats of the Roma and Bulgars, Dave and Angela are getting down to the real business of ridding the EU of its socialist straightjacket.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    MikeK said:

    Good Lord! The new German anti-€uro party is polling 19%.
    http://is.gd/TLZveq

    They're up in UKIP territory.

    No they are not . The established German pollsters all have them at between 2 and 3% , today's Emnid poll at 2% .

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Roger said:

    @SquareRoot.

    "Roger, Have you ever met the person you are slagging off? I think your comment says more about you and your personal prejudices than anything about the object of your rather nasty comment."


    I actually stole the sentiment from Peter Oborne someone I normally find unreadable but his description of Cameron and his henchmen as "an incestuous collection of louche, affluent, power-hungry and amoral Londoners" shows how wrong I was

    PS. What was your most recent username before "Square Root"?

    Roger: the douche to the louche.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited April 2013
    @MickP

    "Clegg agrees with IDS,wealthy pensioners should give up benefits"

    It's surely only a short leap to suggest that all wealthy pensioners should give the government all their excess wealth. Not a bad idea but isn't it a bit communist for a Tory government? Has Cameron commented yet?
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    @Avery

    "The douche to the louche"

    I like it! I think it'll fly!
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Roger said:

    @SquareRoot.

    What was your most recent username before "Square Root"?

    Radicand.

    He then went forth and multiplied.

  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Twitter awash with a big red policy announcement tomorrow....

    Any guesses on which area he will be advocating the state takes over ?

    Exercise ? Diet ? Breathing ?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    TGOHF said:

    Twitter awash with a big red policy announcement tomorrow....

    Any guesses on which area he will be advocating the state takes over ?

    Exercise ? Diet ? Breathing ?

    Baby seals versus velociraptors ?
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Socrates

    'This is ridiculous. A foreign drug dealer can't be deported because he's got a girlfriend here:'

    Just the tip of the iceberg,there's a plentiful supply of idiot judges always prepared to find an excuse for a criminal to stay in the UK and always ready to move the ever flexible human rights goalposts to accommodate.
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    jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    Re IDS and pensioner benefits. Apologies if this is a double post. Just read some of the comments on the Beeb report,and I find I am now "an evil greedy Baby Boomer"
    I am not quite a state pensioner yet but I do get my bus pass and WFB
    You can keep my bus pass,only used once for the novelty,but I enjoy my winter fuel allowance,it is for fuel,so I use it to fill up the Gas Guzzler and live up to my description as an evil greedy baby boomer.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    Doesn't using one's bus pass bring revenue to the bus companies, and therefore keep bus routes open?
    I find my pass very useful, and use it several times a week.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Nothing should surprise anyone re judges - looks at Leveson ...
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    TGOHF

    'Twitter awash with a big red policy announcement tomorrow...'

    Ed's going to share with us the most effective IHT avoidance Trusts?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    He's going to nationalise the banks - oh wait....
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    IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Shapps is utterly useless.

    The Tory party seems to be realising this. As Crosby would say. What's the point of him?
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    @roger

    So we can now add plagiarism to the list.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    Coming soon :- Ed and Justine's Grand Day Out.

    "Help, its the wrong brother and he's gone wrong."
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    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,968
    Anyone ctach Godfrey Bloom on Pienaar on R5? Can't see UKIP remining on 18% if he gets too much more exposure!
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    IOS said:

    Shapps is utterly useless.

    The Tory party seems to be realising this. As Crosby would say. What's the point of him?

    IOS

    Why are you and tim so afraid of Shapps?

    If he were truly useless and dangerous to the Tories wouldn't it be better tactics to remain schtum?
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Avery

    IOS can sometimes be a bit indiscreet, it was he who first revealed Labour's novel tactic of targeting Cornwall.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,131
    edited April 2013
    According to that table UKIP supporters would be voting for 118% of the available options. No wonder their polling figure is so high. On average they vote considerably more than once.

    Or is this more evidence in support of Ken Clarke's comments?

    And only 91% of tories would vote in a seat that they had a chance of winning. There is something rotten in the state of Yougov.
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @dr_spyn

    How to survive on £21k a day.

    '£21K-a-day David Miliband exploits tax loophole that his ... - Daily Mail

    www.dailymail.co.uk/.../21K-day-David-Miliband-exploits-tax-loophole-G...

    Jan 28, 2012 – He said: 'Usually when spouses own shares it is to help avoid tax. Ed Miliband and Labour talk tough on tax-avoidance except when it's in the ...
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited April 2013
    I wonder whether all those over-60s who tell pollsters they support UKIP realise that it is UKIP policy to merge income tax and NI, which would massively hit pensioners?

    It's a good policy, in many ways, but an even better way of losing elections.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,213
    SeanT said:

    Hello pb brains trust. I've got a Sunday Times gig to write about the Best New Things in London -sights, hotels, restaurants, bars, shops, buildings, parks, anything.

    The only criterion is that it has to be newly established - or seriously refurbed - in 2010 or later.

    To be honest there is so much to choose from I am bit stumped. So if anyone has a favourite new pub, restaurant etc in London I'd be grateful for the tip-off - and your favourite place will get excellent free publicity.

    Ta.

    Would the Epping Ongar Railway count? It did form part of the Underground until 1994. It was reopened initially in 2004, but only half-heartedly.But it really was refurbed for a second re-opening last May.
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    samsam Posts: 727
    edited April 2013
    SeanT said:

    Hello pb brains trust. I've got a Sunday Times gig to write about the Best New Things in London -sights, hotels, restaurants, bars, shops, buildings, parks, anything.

    The only criterion is that it has to be newly established - or seriously refurbed - in 2010 or later.

    To be honest there is so much to choose from I am bit stumped. So if anyone has a favourite new pub, restaurant etc in London I'd be grateful for the tip-off - and your favourite place will get excellent free publicity.

    Ta.

    When I worked at IG Index we used to go to this little kooky restaurant next door to the office called The Laughing Gravy for subsidised slightly rough dinners... I left in 2009 and it has since been taken over by a local customer and given a revamp and it is lovely. It was in the top 20 London restaurants on trip advisor at one point.... its down Blackfriars Rd 2 mins from Soutthwark or Waterloo tube... def worth a visit
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    samsam Posts: 727
    DavidL said:

    According to that table UKIP supporters would be voting for 118% of the available options. No wonder their polling figure is so high. On average they vote considerably more than once.

    Or is this more evidence in support of Ken Clarke's comments?

    And only 91% of tories would vote in a seat that they had a chance of winning. There is something rotten in the state of Yougov.

    Think youre reading the table the wrong way, its meant to be read vertically
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    IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Avery

    What anyone posts on here doesn't matter. I am not going to pretend that anything written on here will lead to someone doing anything different. We are all howling at the moon. So I might as well say what I think.


    Shapps really is useless. Cameron would do well to get rid of him.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    SeanT said:

    Hello pb brains trust. I've got a Sunday Times gig to write about the Best New Things in London -sights, hotels, restaurants, bars, shops, buildings, parks, anything.

    The only criterion is that it has to be newly established - or seriously refurbed - in 2010 or later.

    To be honest there is so much to choose from I am bit stumped. So if anyone has a favourite new pub, restaurant etc in London I'd be grateful for the tip-off - and your favourite place will get excellent free publicity.

    Ta.

    Leighton House in Holland Park has had a recent refit. A little known jewel of high Victoriana. The former studio house of Lord Leighton.


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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Oh dear the french are getting very upset with Frau Merkel. Now we're in for a year of stamping their little feet to see if the Germans will give in.

    http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2013/04/28/01003-20130428ARTFIG00073-les-relations-entre-la-france-et-l-allemagne-au-plus-mal.php
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Neil said:

    @Avery

    IOS can sometimes be a bit indiscreet, it was he who first revealed Labour's novel tactic of targeting Cornwall.

    Perhaps Red's new policy is to re-open the Cornish tin mines?

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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Sam

    I used to love the Laughing Gravy back in the day, you've inspired me to go back soon to see what it's like now.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013
    So Labour tactical voters in LD-Con contests are something like 0.3% of the LibDem support

    The 1% who swtich from Lab-LD to SNP-Plain probably didn't understand the question....or have some bizarre thinking I have not understood yet.

    The 6% who switch to "wouldn't vote"....are they already afraid of the amount of leaflets on doorstep in a 4 way marginal?
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    'Perhaps Red's new policy is to re-open the Cornish tin mines?'

    Anything to shut up Len McCluskey.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,131
    sam said:

    DavidL said:

    According to that table UKIP supporters would be voting for 118% of the available options. No wonder their polling figure is so high. On average they vote considerably more than once.

    Or is this more evidence in support of Ken Clarke's comments?

    And only 91% of tories would vote in a seat that they had a chance of winning. There is something rotten in the state of Yougov.

    Think youre reading the table the wrong way, its meant to be read vertically
    This would be why I am of limited assistance with my daughter's maths homework. Embarrassed smiley thingy.
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    I see the fools on here are once again blaming the judiciary for enforcing the law of the land. We have a sovereign Parliament. Change the law if you like, but it is disingenuous to attack judges for doing the job that Parliament requires of them.
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    samsam Posts: 727
    Neil said:

    @Sam

    I used to love the Laughing Gravy back in the day, you've inspired me to go back soon to see what it's like now.

    Im no food critic but I thought it was really good, and the waitress was hot!

    I used to like it in the early 2000s too when it was rougher.. one of the first places to have board games to play while you waited for your tucker!

    Then on to the Stage Door for a lock in!
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Very good point Richard.

    One of the joys of retirement is that there is NI on your pension.
    The Ukip plan would cut down pensioners incomes by quite a lot.

    I wonder whether all those over-60s who tell pollsters they support UKIP realise that it is UKIP policy to merge income tax and NI, which would massively hit pensioners?

    It's a good policy, in many ways, but an even better way of losing elections.

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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    SeanT said:

    Hello pb brains trust. I've got a Sunday Times gig to write about the Best New Things in London -sights, hotels, restaurants, bars, shops, buildings, parks, anything.

    The only criterion is that it has to be newly established - or seriously refurbed - in 2010 or later.

    To be honest there is so much to choose from I am bit stumped. So if anyone has a favourite new pub, restaurant etc in London I'd be grateful for the tip-off - and your favourite place will get excellent free publicity.

    Ta.

    Here are three...

    http://www.rbkc.gov.uk/subsites/exhibitionroad.aspx

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2291695/This-place-just-like-toilet-Entrepreneur-converts-mens-public-lavatory-cafe.html

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/broadcastinghouse/
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645

    I see the fools on here are once again blaming the judiciary for enforcing the law of the land. We have a sovereign Parliament. Change the law if you like, but it is disingenuous to attack judges for doing the job that Parliament requires of them.

    There is no room then for judges to interpret matters in sometimes absurd ways then?

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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645
    edited April 2013


    Oh dear the french are getting very upset with Frau Merkel. Now we're in for a year of stamping their little feet to see if the Germans will give in.

    http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2013/04/28/01003-20130428ARTFIG00073-les-relations-entre-la-france-et-l-allemagne-au-plus-mal.php

    Reminds me a little of how we all get in a tizzy if America doesn't return our calls for a week or something. Only with more rivalry (we know we cannot compete with USA, but France would like to with Germany) making it a bit more bitter.

    I always have faith in Germany playing a winning hand in such spats thesedays though.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    edited April 2013
    Am puzzled why Labour hasn't delivered any leaflets in my area. It strikes me as odd that the one nation party makes so little effort to win disgruntled voters over, have they something to hide about their organisation and finances? I would like to know what Labour has to offer voters in the forthcoming local election other than revamped claims about a bedroom tax which has sweet FA to do with local councillors.

    So far I can only be sure that Ed M's lot can't organise a p1ss up in a brewery.
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    kle4 said:

    There is no room then for judges to interpret matters in sometimes absurd ways then?

    Of course judges make perverse decisions. That is why we have an extensive system of appellate jurisdiction. If the decision was flawed, it is open to the Secretary of State to appeal against it. The attack is simply made on judges for giving effect to the provisions of the Human Rights Act 1998, which, unless and until Parliament repeals it, is their job.
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Life_ina_market_town

    ' Change the law if you like, but it is disingenuous to attack judges for doing the job that Parliament requires of them.'

    That's exactly what happened,but the Judge chose to ignore the new guidelines,clearly he didn't agree with them.

    'In his decision to let Ali stay, the immigration judge said he was not taking into account new guidelines introduced by the Home Secretary last week, in an attempt to stop spurious human rights cases being brought by criminals to prevent their deportation.'

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    IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Mike

    When you had your chat with Shapps what did you think? It seems he has been spending all CCHQ's time by getting them to read twitter and facebook. Only for it to rebound on them!

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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    dr_spyn said:

    Am puzzled why Labour hasn't delivered any leaflets in my area.

    Is it an area they have any chance of winning in?
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    Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited April 2013
    @john_zims
    The Human Rights Act 1998 is primary legislation. As the decision of the House of Lords in Adelola makes clear, the Immigration Rules are not even a statutory instrument. Are you honestly suggesting that the judge should have given effect to an executive decree over the will of Parliament? That would be contrary to the constitutional settlement extant in this jurisdiction since the so-called Glorious Revolution.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645

    kle4 said:

    There is no room then for judges to interpret matters in sometimes absurd ways then?

    Of course judges make perverse decisions. That is why we have an extensive system of appellate jurisdiction. If the decision was flawed, it is open to the Secretary of State to appeal against it.
    Which, I imagine, is what people now want. What they seem to be arguing is that too often jusges are making perverse decisions. I don't have the facts to speak to that, but if it is a trend, that is a problem of the judges.
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    kle4 said:

    Which, I imagine, is what people now want. What they seem to be arguing is that too often jusges are making perverse decisions. I don't have the facts to speak to that, but if it is a trend, that is a problem of the judges.

    That is propaganda cooked up by the tabloid press. There is no evidence of it at all.

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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645

    kle4 said:

    Which, I imagine, is what people now want. What they seem to be arguing is that too often jusges are making perverse decisions. I don't have the facts to speak to that, but if it is a trend, that is a problem of the judges.

    That is propaganda cooked up by the tabloid press. There is no evidence of it at all.

    If you say so. I think the tabloid press have help cooking these things up though, or rather reheating them.

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    SeanT said:

    Hello pb brains trust. I've got a Sunday Times gig to write about the Best New Things in London -sights, hotels, restaurants, bars, shops, buildings, parks, anything.

    The only criterion is that it has to be newly established - or seriously refurbed - in 2010 or later.

    To be honest there is so much to choose from I am bit stumped. So if anyone has a favourite new pub, restaurant etc in London I'd be grateful for the tip-off - and your favourite place will get excellent free publicity.

    Ta.

    Another idea is the BYOC (Bring Your Own Cocktails) Bar in Covent Garden, just round the corner from the Garrick.

    It is good copy for "list of" articles due to the novelty of its business model. You bring your own alcohol and then it is mixed into cocktails by the bar staff. Small and almost impossible to get in without booking, it is still on the crest of the trend wave.

    Problem is that it has already been well covered by the press but its story should still survive more publication.
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    IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Neil.

    Also is he a person we have any chance of winning over. Most comms is DM rather than leaflet. Most likely simply be cut out.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Tomorrow Ed Balls will be in South Shields. Let's hope he will eat ice cream with Emma Double Surname.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Ed Balls
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    @Neil - seat is held by Yellow Peril - but past local elections have had some effort to distribute leaflets, and some bumf has arrived in between election cycles. It may be that Labour has given up on the area for being too affluent, middle class, yet there are plenty of households with jobs in the public sector. Labour had council candidates returned in the area until about 2001.

    But it is odd that they make no effort to let voters weigh up their candidates in a local election.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    dr_spyn said:


    But it is odd that they make no effort to let voters weigh up their candidates in a local election.

    It would be odder still to expect them to deliver leaflets to every single voter. Our system rewards parties that target their resources.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Dr Spyn

    Are from Bristol, Sormerset. something like that?

    (ok, I am not good in remembering where people comes from! Yesterday I placed one in Aberdeen instead of South Ayrshire).
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645
    OT, saw a couple of movies this weekend (Oblivion and Iron Man 3), and the most chilling bit of acting in either experience was Benedict Cumberbatch in the Into Darkness trailer - I'd always dismissed the claims of him being a good actor as hyperbole, but he seems transformed for that movie.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Did you enjoy them, Mr. kle4? Not a cinema-goer, just curious, as the schoolgirl said to the bishop.
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
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    IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Carola

    The Tories have given many different answers to the same question. How do we deal with UKIP?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645
    edited April 2013
    @MorrisDancer First time I'd been to the cinema since the Avengers (which had been the first time since 2009 Star Trek), so not much of a movie goer either, but my thoughts:

    Oblivion was a true surprise - stunningly shot, some effective twists and emotional moments of stillness, decent enough action. The plot was, weirdly, both a little simple and sparse on detail at times and oddly convuleted in some ways, if that makes any sense. I am intensely annoyed (ok, jealous) that Tom Cruise is 50 and still looks 35 (that is, Movie star 35, so better than most people at 25). Also, Jaime Lannister is in it a little.

    Iron Man 3 was not at all what I had expected, but it was still at turns funny and emotional. It does contain a twist some people might think is too much, and it is not as emotional as it thinks it is - but which critics laps up of course - so it's a mixed back. Worth the price of admission, better than Iron Man 2, but not as well constructed as the original Iron Man, and tries too hard at times to be deep. Avengers was dumb fun, but IM3 wants to be impactful, and misses more than it would like.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Oh, I can beat that. I think the last Lord of the Rings film was the most recent one I saw at the flicks.

    I like Nikolaj Coster-Waldau. He's one of the better chaps for Game of Thrones DVD commentaries, and his English accent, particularly in season 2, is very good indeed.

    Interesting, and glad to hear Iron Man seems to be improving.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,321
    dr_spyn said:

    Am puzzled why Labour hasn't delivered any leaflets in my area. It strikes me as odd that the one nation party makes so little effort to win disgruntled voters over, have they something to hide about their organisation and finances? I would like to know what Labour has to offer voters in the forthcoming local election other than revamped claims about a bedroom tax which has sweet FA to do with local councillors.

    So far I can only be sure that Ed M's lot can't organise a p1ss up in a brewery.

    The Tories haven't delivered leaflets in large chunks of Broxtowe, and that's a Tory-held marginal where you might think they'd want to keep their vote up across the constituency. Several seats are essentially Lib-Lab contests because of the local "Lib in County, Lab in general" tactical tradition, and the Conservatives have evidently decided to just get the popcorn and watch the spectacle. In one seat that they do hold (but will, I predict, lose on Thursday), Beeston South, the candidate has apparently delivered to the whole ward single-handed.

    Basically help is hard to come by so all parties have to target. We've delivered everywhere in Broxtowe, but we certainly haven't canvassed it all this year.

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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,213
    Carola said:
    That pic's from Con Air, one of my favourite Cage films!

    Or maybe more topically, ConDem Air?

    :)
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Life_ina_market_town

    'That is propaganda cooked up by the tabloid press. There is no evidence of it at all.'

    On the basis the Telegraph's report is correct,how can the judges decision for this convicted drug dealer & illegal immigrant be anything other than taking the piss.?

    'Hesham Mohammed Ali won an appeal against moves by Theresa May, the Home Secretary, to deport him because of his crimes.

    He convinced a judge he had a “family life” which had to be respected because he had a “genuine” relationship with a British woman – despite already having two children by different women with whom he now has no contact.

    Ali also mounted an extraordinary claim that his life would be in danger in his native Iraq because he was covered in tattoos, including a half-naked Western woman – a claim which was only dismissed after exhaustive legal examination.'
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    john_zims said:

    @Life_ina_market_town

    'That is propaganda cooked up by the tabloid press. There is no evidence of it at all.'

    On the basis the Telegraph's report is correct,how can the judges decision for this convicted drug dealer & illegal immigrant be anything other than taking the piss.?

    'Hesham Mohammed Ali won an appeal against moves by Theresa May, the Home Secretary, to deport him because of his crimes.

    He convinced a judge he had a “family life” which had to be respected because he had a “genuine” relationship with a British woman – despite already having two children by different women with whom he now has no contact.

    Ali also mounted an extraordinary claim that his life would be in danger in his native Iraq because he was covered in tattoos, including a half-naked Western woman – a claim which was only dismissed after exhaustive legal examination.'

    I see no reason that he and his doxy could not have a family life in Iraq, should she really have the desire.

    Meanwhile more GDP growth in the law enforcement industries even as I type. Marvelous, if we opened our doors to a few more like him we would be booming. No pun intended.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,321

    john_zims said:

    @Life_ina_market_town

    'That is propaganda cooked up by the tabloid press. There is no evidence of it at all.'

    On the basis the Telegraph's report is correct,how can the judges decision for this convicted drug dealer & illegal immigrant be anything other than taking the piss.?

    'Hesham Mohammed Ali won an appeal against moves by Theresa May, the Home Secretary, to deport him because of his crimes.

    He convinced a judge he had a “family life” which had to be respected because he had a “genuine” relationship with a British woman – despite already having two children by different women with whom he now has no contact.

    Ali also mounted an extraordinary claim that his life would be in danger in his native Iraq because he was covered in tattoos, including a half-naked Western woman – a claim which was only dismissed after exhaustive legal examination.'

    I see no reason that he and his doxy could not have a family life in Iraq, should she really have the desire.

    Meanwhile more GDP growth in the law enforcement industries even as I type. Marvelous, if we opened our doors to a few more like him we would be booming. No pun intended.
    The law is explained in some detail here:
    http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/human-rights/the-human-rights-act/what-the-rights-mean/article-8-right-to-a-private-and-family-life.php

    The crucial element appears to be:
    "Article 8 also provides the right to respect for one’s established family life. This includes close family ties, although there is no pre-determined model of a family or family life. It includes any stable relationship, be it married, engaged, or de facto"

    It may be true (depending on Iraqi immigration law) that what you choose to call his doxy could move with him to Iraq, but British law doesn't embrace the concept of punishing people for the acts of their partners by requiring them to separate or move to a country unknown to them. Basically people who settle with someone British living in Britain is entitled to live in Britain too - it's a principle that has operated for decades, and is for instance why Abu Hamza was given British citizenship under Mrs Thatcher in 1983.

    The fact highlighted by the Telegraph that he's had some previous relationships is neither here nor there. I dare say that some of us have also had relationships before marriage, without needing to fear that this will cause us to be deported.

    It's obviously an unpopular case and he doesn't sound a nice chap, but it's good to see that the legal system continues to operate according to the law as approved by Parliament without bending to take account of press coverage and public pressure.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645
    tim said:

    The Tories have a lead of 8% over UKIP in this poll
    It's down to 3% among over 65s, the group Cameron and Osborne based their entire election strategy around.

    It's because pandering to UKIP leaning voters by trying to ape UKIP just makes people think why shouldn't they just go with UKIP then, I would guess. Tory panic.

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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    kle4 said:

    tim said:

    The Tories have a lead of 8% over UKIP in this poll
    It's down to 3% among over 65s, the group Cameron and Osborne based their entire election strategy around.

    It's because pandering to UKIP leaning voters by trying to ape UKIP just makes people think why shouldn't they just go with UKIP then, I would guess. Tory panic.

    They needed to do things not just say them.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013

    john_zims said:

    @Life_ina_market_town

    'That is propaganda cooked up by the tabloid press. There is no evidence of it at all.'

    On the basis the Telegraph's report is correct,how can the judges decision for this convicted drug dealer & illegal immigrant be anything other than taking the piss.?

    'Hesham Mohammed Ali won an appeal against moves by Theresa May, the Home Secretary, to deport him because of his crimes.

    He convinced a judge he had a “family life” which had to be respected because he had a “genuine” relationship with a British woman – despite already having two children by different women with whom he now has no contact.

    Ali also mounted an extraordinary claim that his life would be in danger in his native Iraq because he was covered in tattoos, including a half-naked Western woman – a claim which was only dismissed after exhaustive legal examination.'

    I see no reason that he and his doxy could not have a family life in Iraq, should she really have the desire.

    Meanwhile more GDP growth in the law enforcement industries even as I type. Marvelous, if we opened our doors to a few more like him we would be booming. No pun intended.
    The law is explained in some detail here:
    http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/human-rights/the-human-rights-act/what-the-rights-mean/article-8-right-to-a-private-and-family-life.php

    The crucial element appears to be:
    "Article 8 also provides the right to respect for one’s established family life. This includes close family ties, although there is no pre-determined model of a family or family life. It includes any stable relationship, be it married, engaged, or de facto"

    It may be true (depending on Iraqi immigration law) that what you choose to call his doxy could move with him to Iraq, but British law doesn't embrace the concept of punishing people for the acts of their partners by requiring them to separate or move to a country unknown to them. Basically people who settle with someone British living in Britain is entitled to live in Britain too - it's a principle that has operated for decades, and is for instance why Abu Hamza was given British citizenship under Mrs Thatcher in 1983.

    The fact highlighted by the Telegraph that he's had some previous relationships is neither here nor there. I dare say that some of us have also had relationships before marriage, without needing to fear that this will cause us to be deported.

    It's obviously an unpopular case and he doesn't sound a nice chap, but it's good to see that the legal system continues to operate according to the law as approved by Parliament without bending to take account of press coverage and public pressure.
    A fine defence of British justice, Mr. Palmer.

    But the man is clearly a muslim.

    UKIP would have sent him packing on the very next cargo plane to Baghdad.

    And as for his doxy, I am sure there are plenty of British men with saucy tattoos to comfort her in her loss.

    This is human rights gone mad whatever you, tim and LIAMT might claim.
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    To the political class not deporting foreign criminals is just a media irritant because they don't live in the areas where the crimes are committed.

    It's just another example of the political class being a separate caste.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    A foreign criminal was allowed to stay in the UK after he claimed he had formed an important relationship with his cat.

    I don't think that's what Parliament had in mind when they passed the various Human Rights laws.
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    corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    AndyJS said:

    A foreign criminal was allowed to stay in the UK after he claimed he had formed an important relationship with his cat.

    I don't think that's what Parliament had in mind when they passed the various Human Rights laws.

    Andy, that got pretty much comprehensively ripped apart as untrue.

    There was a cat, and the judge off-handedly referred to it in his judgment (essentially as "the cat will be relieved you're staying), but it was unimportant to the case. Theresa May took it out of context to try and make a story and had it blow up in her face.
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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Syria: The Israeli airforce has been cruising over Damascus tonight. Its a warning to Assad not to be giving presents to Hizbollah.

    Its also exposing the lie that Assad has a massive impenetrable air defence network in place. Individual batteries aside, the integrated air defence network has been very badly damaged for months.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited April 2013
    You lost me as soon as you said
    corporeal said:

    off-handedly referred to it in his judgment (essentially as

    which boils down to being either your interpretation of the outcome, or the view of your preferred biased news-organ of choice.

    The equally partisan news outlets I read came down on the opposite side when considering the pivotal status of the cat.

    Are there any impartial legal opinions which can split the difference here?
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    It's obviously an unpopular case and he doesn't sound a nice chap, but it's good to see that the legal system continues to operate according to the law as approved by Parliament without bending to take account of press coverage and public pressure.
    I shall review the case tomorrow but it seems contrary to previous precedent and may be wrongly decided.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    GeoffM said:


    Are there any impartial legal opinions which can split the difference here?

    Is the Judicial Office impartial enough?

    https://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/36754/judicial_office_cat_had_nothing_to_do_with_deportation.html

    The best bit had to be Theresa prefacing her story with "I am not making this up".
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    corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    GeoffM said:

    You lost me as soon as you said

    corporeal said:

    off-handedly referred to it in his judgment (essentially as

    which boils down to being either your interpretation of the outcome, or the view of your preferred biased news-organ of choice.

    The equally partisan news outlets I read came down on the opposite side when considering the pivotal status of the cat.

    Are there any impartial legal opinions which can split the difference here?
    It really isn't interpretation,

    In their original application the couple gave details of their life together, mentioned the cat as a detail, but the case and the appeal hinged upon whether the Home Office had been applying its own policies properly in the case (it hadn't).

    There's factcheck if you like.

    http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-theresa-may-caught-catnapping-on-the-job/8064

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/6360116/Immigrant-allowed-to-stay-because-of-pet-cat.html

    and

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15171980

    carry the quote from the Judicial office.

    "Within minutes, a spokesman for the Judicial Office at the Royal Courts of Justice, which issues statements on behalf of senior judges, said: "This was a case in which the Home Office conceded that they had mistakenly failed to apply their own policy - applying at that time to that appellant - for dealing with unmarried partners of people settled in the UK.

    "That was the basis for the decision to uphold the original tribunal decision - the cat had nothing to do with the decision.""

    Here's fullfact

    http://fullfact.org/blog/catgate_catflap_Daily_Mail_imigrant_bolivian_cat_deportation-3018

    Which has the original ruling itself at the bottom if you wish to read (note that's the original ruling, not the appeal one)
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,321
    Entertaining developments in Broxtowe: the local MP has refused to contribute an article to the local non-partisan paper, apprently because they'd decided to start printing articles from other parties as well, and has referred people to her email updates instead. However, she has then reportedly been culling her email list of critics (such as the LibDem leader) so they can't so easily see what she thinks (naturally samizdat copies of her emails are circulating anyway).

    Are there other examples of MPs attempting to stop people reading what they think? Usually I was only too keen for people to read my stuff in whatever media would print it. She's obviously entitled to restrict her thoughts to a narrow circle if she wishes, but it seems very odd.

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Neil said:

    GeoffM said:


    Are there any impartial legal opinions which can split the difference here?

    Is the Judicial Office impartial enough?

    https://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/36754/judicial_office_cat_had_nothing_to_do_with_deportation.html

    The best bit had to be Theresa prefacing her story with "I am not making this up".
    the cat had nothing to do with the decision

    Bet they wouldn't have said that if if were a Persian rather than a Maine Coon.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited April 2013
    Neil said:

    GeoffM said:

    Is the Judicial Office impartial enough?

    A comment issued on *Twitter*? No, that doesn't cut the mustard any more than the pro-cat quote I found from the Defence conceding that the cat was indeed a "detail" which was used in deciding that the two men were in a "committed relationship".

    Honestly the only thing which slants me either way is "I am not making this up" which is a classic klaxxon-alert way of kicking off any made up story.

    Regardless, I'm thinking about starting a Gerbil shop in Dover. I'll stick a copy of the relevant Daily Mail story in the window. True or not, I reckon I'll make a fortune from the illegal immigrants.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    GeoffM said:


    A comment from the people who lost the case issued on *Twitter*?

    I'm not sure you have quite grasped what the Judicial Office is.
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    corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    edited April 2013
    GeoffM said:

    Neil said:

    Is the Judicial Office impartial enough?

    GeoffM said:


    A comment from the people who lost the case issued on *Twitter*? No, that doesn't cut the mustard any more than the pro-cat quote I found from the Defence conceding that the cat was indeed a "detail" which was used in deciding that the two men were in a "committed relationship".

    1. That's not what the judicial office is. As the name suggests they're the judge's organisation.

    2. That's not on twitter, that's a normal official press release that politicshome is reporting (the tweet button is what you'd push if you wanted to tweet the story).

    3. The defence listed it as part of their case in the original trial, both in that trial and then more explicitly in the appeal the key question was the Home Office policy at the time.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Ah, my apologies coporeal, I had indeed misinterpreted the "Tweet" on that page to mean that it was originally a tweet from them. Thanks for pointing that out, appreciated.

    Yes, I saw that that defence used the cat on both occasions, hence their comment that I quoted saying that it was a "detail" that was used. That's specifically why I didn't bother linking to it; the same quote could be used in/out of context whether defending/attacking Mrs May's comments.

    I'm quite happy being instinctively sceptical of anyone who says "I'm not making this up". Sets off my bsht radar every time.
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited April 2013

    Entertaining developments in Broxtowe: the local MP has refused to contribute an article to the local non-partisan paper, apprently because they'd decided to start printing articles from other parties as well, and has referred people to her email updates instead. However, she has then reportedly been culling her email list of critics (such as the LibDem leader) so they can't so easily see what she thinks (naturally samizdat copies of her emails are circulating anyway).

    Are there other examples of MPs attempting to stop people reading what they think? Usually I was only too keen for people to read my stuff in whatever media would print it. She's obviously entitled to restrict her thoughts to a narrow circle if she wishes, but it seems very odd.


    Nick, you should follow Anna Soubry on Twitter for latest updates, or visit her website to read her newsletters. She certainly doesn't seem to be trying to prevent anyone from reading what she thinks as you imply in your post.

    Twitter
    Anna Soubry MP ‏@Anna_SoubryMP 25 Apr
    My latest email newsletter is up on my website. Click through to it for a mixed bag of news: http://bit.ly/ZQBBcw

    If you don't follow Anna on twitter, just go to her website where she openly and clearly provides a link to her email newsletters. You will no doubt see her final comment regarding the reason behind the end of her monthly column in the 'local non-partisan' newspaper', which puts a slightly different slant on why she is no longer contributing to this newspaper.

    "and finally...
    For many years the previous MP had a monthly column in the small community paper The Beeston Express right up to the General Election in 2010. Since my election I have had the same opportunity to communicate with constituents about my work on a non partisan basis. Unfortunately, the Editor has exercised her right and has decided to cancel my monthly column. For some time people have been complaining to me that the Beeston Express is no longer the great impartial community newspaper it once was. I am disappointed that the Editor chose to ignore two statements from me about Field Farm and has now refused me the same opportunity as my predecessor. I will continue to express my views and provide updates on my work via this newsletter."





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    corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    GeoffM said:

    Ah, my apologies coporeal, I had indeed misinterpreted the "Tweet" on that page to mean that it was originally a tweet from them. Thanks for pointing that out, appreciated.

    Yes, I saw that that defence used the cat on both occasions, hence their comment that I quoted saying that it was a "detail" that was used. That's specifically why I didn't bother linking to it; the same quote could be used in/out of context whether defending/attacking Mrs May's comments.

    I'm quite happy being instinctively sceptical of anyone who says "I'm not making this up". Sets off my bsht radar every time.

    I'd say the Judicial Office's statement was rather conclusive,
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    fitalass said:


    Nick, you should follow Anna Soubry on Twitter for latest updates, or visit her website to read her newsletters. She certainly doesn't seem to be trying to prevent anyone from reading what she thinks as you imply in your post.

    An ex-Labour MP being economical with the truth? Surely not!
This discussion has been closed.