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Penny Mordaunt: Now 2nd favourite for the CON leadership – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited June 13 in General
imagePenny Mordaunt: Now 2nd favourite for the CON leadership – politicalbetting.com

One of the big developments in the next CON leader betting that PB hasn’t really covered has been the rise and rise of ex-Royal Navy reservist Penny Mordaunt. She’s now the 13% second favourite and appears highly credible.

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • EPGEPG Posts: 4,189
    Second (favourite)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 75,513
    It just feels like there's not enough behind her to be a genuine prospect. Granted, absent a vacancy it is not always apparent who will be a genuine prospect, but whilst I have no issue with her and she has a handful of decent clips, I don't get the shift behind her, even at these levels. Still, if we'd all got on at the odds OGH did that hardly matters.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 13,308
    kle4 said:

    It just feels like there's not enough behind her to be a genuine prospect. Granted, absent a vacancy it is not always apparent who will be a genuine prospect, but whilst I have no issue with her and she has a handful of decent clips, I don't get the shift behind her, even at these levels. Still, if we'd all got on at the odds OGH did that hardly matters.

    Not yet.

    She needs to write some op eds and deliver some speeches.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,199
    Woke led to the rapes of maybe 100,000 white British girls by Muslim grooming gangs

    100,000. Possibly a lot more

    Why? Because the intersectional suffering of British Muslims (brown, marginalised, immigrant, poor) was deemed more important, and worthy of protection than “slutty white British girls from difficult backgrounds” who did not count in the hierarchy, and who had no one to protect them, Whereas these rapists had an entire industry of lawyers and diversity officers and the rest pushing their cause, and thereby cowing councillors and police into silence

    That’s what Woke does. If your intersectional oppression is deemed more important, tens of thousands of kids get raped
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 7,863
    Where did she emerge from? Someone on here (can't recall who) said her extraordinary good looks would make her a global superstar and therefore an incalculable asset for GB. I can't quite see that myself, but maybe it's a meme that's spreading.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 4,189
    What's Hunt's route to the final two, again? The Brexiteers? The 2019 intake?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,908
    Next Leader of the Opposition perhaps but it is hard to see even this lot making Prime Minister someone whose highest experience in government is just under three months as Defence Secretary, should Boris retire before the next election.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,534
    edited June 8
    Penny Mordaunt has some of the same mix of steel and emotionally capable female aspect as Angela Rayner and Lisa Nandy. That's a large part of it, and the Tories are always nothing if not good at sniffing out trends of political appeal.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,759
    Leon said:

    Woke led to the rapes of maybe 100,000 white British girls by Muslim grooming gangs

    100,000. Possibly a lot more

    Why? Because the intersectional suffering of British Muslims (brown, marginalised, immigrant, poor) was deemed more important, and worthy of protection than “slutty white British girls from difficult backgrounds” who did not count in the hierarchy, and who had no one to protect them, Whereas these rapists had an entire industry of lawyers and diversity officers and the rest pushing their cause, and thereby cowing councillors and police into silence

    That’s what Woke does. If your intersectional oppression is deemed more important, tens of thousands of kids get raped

    When your life of lonely introversion that must be a requirement of the solitary traveller/travel journo gets tiresome, you might want to apply for a job with The Express, though you might want to tone done a little of the divisive hyperbole - they might consider it a little much even for their readership.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 42,901

    kle4 said:

    It just feels like there's not enough behind her to be a genuine prospect. Granted, absent a vacancy it is not always apparent who will be a genuine prospect, but whilst I have no issue with her and she has a handful of decent clips, I don't get the shift behind her, even at these levels. Still, if we'd all got on at the odds OGH did that hardly matters.

    Not yet.

    She needs to write some op eds and deliver some speeches.
    Agreed. At the moment she is just a blank canvas onto which people can paint their aspriations.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,759

    Penny Mordaunt has some of the same mix of steel and emotionally capable female aspect as Angela Rayner and Lisa Nandy. That's a large part of it, and the Tories are always nothing if not good at sniffing out trends of political appeal.

    If she does get the job I hope she is not as lightweight as those two!
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,013
    As someone who doesn’t watch “telly” and spent a lot of time out the country until quite recently, I must confess to not having a clue who Penny Mordaunt is.

    I suspect the same must be true of a majority of general election voters. Her ascent would have rather a bit of “arsene who?” about it.

    Don’t let that stop you bettors!
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,759
    kle4 said:

    It just feels like there's not enough behind her to be a genuine prospect. Granted, absent a vacancy it is not always apparent who will be a genuine prospect, but whilst I have no issue with her and she has a handful of decent clips, I don't get the shift behind her, even at these levels. Still, if we'd all got on at the odds OGH did that hardly matters.

    Anyone, and I mean anyone, has got to be an improvement on the current incumbent
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,534
    edited June 8

    Penny Mordaunt has some of the same mix of steel and emotionally capable female aspect as Angela Rayner and Lisa Nandy. That's a large part of it, and the Tories are always nothing if not good at sniffing out trends of political appeal.

    If she does get the job I hope she is not as lightweight as those two!
    Well, they're less lightweight than most members of the Commons, I would say.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 4,189

    kle4 said:

    It just feels like there's not enough behind her to be a genuine prospect. Granted, absent a vacancy it is not always apparent who will be a genuine prospect, but whilst I have no issue with her and she has a handful of decent clips, I don't get the shift behind her, even at these levels. Still, if we'd all got on at the odds OGH did that hardly matters.

    Anyone, and I mean anyone, has got to be an improvement on the current incumbent
    He probably won't be a competitor at the next leadership election.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,759

    Penny Mordaunt has some of the same mix of steel and emotionally capable female aspect as Angela Rayner and Lisa Nandy. That's a large part of it, and the Tories are always nothing if not good at sniffing out trends of political appeal.

    If she does get the job I hope she is not as lightweight as those two!
    Well, they're less lightweight than most members of the Commons, I would say.
    I think the Labour Party has a number of candidates that are considerably more able. Rayner comes across as only a little less thick than Corbyn. I am sure she would make a very competent lower middle manager.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 21,046
    edited June 8
    moonshine said:

    As someone who doesn’t watch “telly” and spent a lot of time out the country until quite recently, I must confess to not having a clue who Penny Mordaunt is.

    I suspect the same must be true of a majority of general election voters. Her ascent would have rather a bit of “arsene who?” about it.

    Don’t let that stop you bettors!

    I reckon you are right. I doubt a majority would know who she is.
    Not necessarily a disadvantage, mind.
    I maintain though. The next leader will have to sketch out some kind of plan.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,603
    She's got very nice hands.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,696
    edited June 8
    Applicant said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    It just feels like there's not enough behind her to be a genuine prospect. Granted, absent a vacancy it is not always apparent who will be a genuine prospect, but whilst I have no issue with her and she has a handful of decent clips, I don't get the shift behind her, even at these levels. Still, if we'd all got on at the odds OGH did that hardly matters.

    Not yet.

    She needs to write some op eds and deliver some speeches.
    Agreed. At the moment she is just a blank canvas onto which people can paint their aspriations.
    Making a speech on defending the British sausage is the established way for a non-Great Office of State holder to force their way into the leadership contest.
    Bit late for that - especially as Mr J would promptly claim the credit. Not what an opponent wants.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,158
    moonshine said:

    As someone who doesn’t watch “telly” and spent a lot of time out the country until quite recently, I must confess to not having a clue who Penny Mordaunt is.

    I suspect the same must be true of a majority of general election voters. Her ascent would have rather a bit of “arsene who?” about it.

    Don’t let that stop you bettors!

    You should listen to the monthly Focus Group interviews on the Red Box Podcast (the last one was in the 12 May edition). Most people know nothing about Starmer and haven't heard of any of the current cabinet other than Johnson and Sunak. Small sample, of course, but we overestimate, on here, the political engagement that people have.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,534
    edited June 8

    Penny Mordaunt has some of the same mix of steel and emotionally capable female aspect as Angela Rayner and Lisa Nandy. That's a large part of it, and the Tories are always nothing if not good at sniffing out trends of political appeal.

    If she does get the job I hope she is not as lightweight as those two!
    Well, they're less lightweight than most members of the Commons, I would say.
    I think the Labour Party has a number of candidates that are considerably more able. Rayner comes across as only a little less thick than Corbyn. I am sure she would make a very competent lower middle manager.
    I would say Rayner is considerably brighter than Corbyn. She can think extremely quickly on her feet, at times.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,160
    31/1 is a superb bet @MikeSmithson on someone who is very capable and the one I most fear.

    The rest? Not really.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,759
    Roger said:

    She's got very nice hands.

    Oh no, we are not back onto fetishes again? Am I going to have to wax lyrical on sexual psychology this evening as well?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,160
    edited June 8

    Leon said:

    Woke led to the rapes of maybe 100,000 white British girls by Muslim grooming gangs

    100,000. Possibly a lot more

    Why? Because the intersectional suffering of British Muslims (brown, marginalised, immigrant, poor) was deemed more important, and worthy of protection than “slutty white British girls from difficult backgrounds” who did not count in the hierarchy, and who had no one to protect them, Whereas these rapists had an entire industry of lawyers and diversity officers and the rest pushing their cause, and thereby cowing councillors and police into silence

    That’s what Woke does. If your intersectional oppression is deemed more important, tens of thousands of kids get raped

    When your life of lonely introversion that must be a requirement of the solitary traveller/travel journo gets tiresome, you might want to apply for a job with The Express, though you might want to tone done a little of the divisive hyperbole - they might consider it a little much even for their readership.
    Yep blaming that all on 'woke' is the latest sad rambling from him.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,759

    Penny Mordaunt has some of the same mix of steel and emotionally capable female aspect as Angela Rayner and Lisa Nandy. That's a large part of it, and the Tories are always nothing if not good at sniffing out trends of political appeal.

    If she does get the job I hope she is not as lightweight as those two!
    Well, they're less lightweight than most members of the Commons, I would say.
    I think the Labour Party has a number of candidates that are considerably more able. Rayner comes across as only a little less thick than Corbyn. I am sure she would make a very competent lower middle manager.
    I would say Rayner is considerably brighter than Corbyn. She can think extremely quickly on her feet at times.
    Perhaps, but it is a very low bar.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,603
    edited June 8
    kle4 said:

    It just feels like there's not enough behind her to be a genuine prospect. Granted, absent a vacancy it is not always apparent who will be a genuine prospect, but whilst I have no issue with her and she has a handful of decent clips, I don't get the shift behind her, even at these levels. Still, if we'd all got on at the odds OGH did that hardly matters.

    They're desperate. ALL the Cabinet have ruled themselves out by toadying up to the king Toad yesterday and in my opinion have no chance so it's a smallish field. It's hard to know what to compare her to.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,844

    Penny Mordaunt has some of the same mix of steel and emotionally capable female aspect as Angela Rayner and Lisa Nandy. That's a large part of it, and the Tories are always nothing if not good at sniffing out trends of political appeal.

    If she does get the job I hope she is not as lightweight as those two!
    Well, they're less lightweight than most members of the Commons, I would say.
    I think the Labour Party has a number of candidates that are considerably more able. Rayner comes across as only a little less thick than Corbyn. I am sure she would make a very competent lower middle manager.
    I would say Rayner is considerably brighter than Corbyn. She can think extremely quickly on her feet, at times.
    Not when it comes to apologising. Her (according to some on here) brilliant apology for the 'scum' comment came a month after the original comment, after she had doubled down on them, and I think after a Tory MP had been murdered.

    Hardly thinking quickly on her feet; more of a glance at her true feelings.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 13,308
    edited June 8

    Penny Mordaunt has some of the same mix of steel and emotionally capable female aspect as Angela Rayner and Lisa Nandy. That's a large part of it, and the Tories are always nothing if not good at sniffing out trends of political appeal.

    If she does get the job I hope she is not as lightweight as those two!
    Well, they're less lightweight than most members of the Commons, I would say.
    I think the Labour Party has a number of candidates that are considerably more able. Rayner comes across as only a little less thick than Corbyn. I am sure she would make a very competent lower middle manager.
    I would say Rayner is considerably brighter than Corbyn. She can think extremely quickly on her feet, at times.
    Not when it comes to apologising. Her (according to some on here) brilliant apology for the 'scum' comment came a month after the original comment, after she had doubled down on them, and I think after a Tory MP had been murdered.

    Hardly thinking quickly on her feet; more of a glance at her true feelings.
    The scum thing is overdone.
    The problem is simply that she’s a bit thick.
    She’d be a good party chairman or something.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,603
    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,199

    Leon said:

    Woke led to the rapes of maybe 100,000 white British girls by Muslim grooming gangs

    100,000. Possibly a lot more

    Why? Because the intersectional suffering of British Muslims (brown, marginalised, immigrant, poor) was deemed more important, and worthy of protection than “slutty white British girls from difficult backgrounds” who did not count in the hierarchy, and who had no one to protect them, Whereas these rapists had an entire industry of lawyers and diversity officers and the rest pushing their cause, and thereby cowing councillors and police into silence

    That’s what Woke does. If your intersectional oppression is deemed more important, tens of thousands of kids get raped

    When your life of lonely introversion that must be a requirement of the solitary traveller/travel journo gets tiresome, you might want to apply for a job with The Express, though you might want to tone done a little of the divisive hyperbole - they might consider it a little much even for their readership.
    Yes, let’s just ignore tens of thousands of raped white British girls. Not an issue. Ditto the children raped by Catholic priests. Etc

    Do you ever stop and look at yourself?
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,055
    One of labours rising stars with a solution to the cost of living crisis.

    £15 an hour minimum wage.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/08/tackle-cost-living-crisis-raise-minimum-wage-15-pounds-hour?CMP=fb_cif
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 13,308
    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    Essentially, yes.
    Certainly *this* Brexit. Others were available.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,027

    Penny Mordaunt has some of the same mix of steel and emotionally capable female aspect as Angela Rayner and Lisa Nandy. That's a large part of it, and the Tories are always nothing if not good at sniffing out trends of political appeal.

    If she does get the job I hope she is not as lightweight as those two!
    Well, they're less lightweight than most members of the Commons, I would say.
    I think the Labour Party has a number of candidates that are considerably more able. Rayner comes across as only a little less thick than Corbyn. I am sure she would make a very competent lower middle manager.
    I would say Rayner is considerably brighter than Corbyn. She can think extremely quickly on her feet, at times.
    Not when it comes to apologising. Her (according to some on here) brilliant apology for the 'scum' comment came a month after the original comment, after she had doubled down on them, and I think after a Tory MP had been murdered.

    Hardly thinking quickly on her feet; more of a glance at her true feelings.
    The scum thing is overdone.
    The problem is simply that she a bit thick.
    She’d be a good party chairman or something.
    I struggle to get past the scum comments because like many on the left that’s what she really thinks. I yearn for politicians who can disagree on politics but not have such a viceral hatred for opponents.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,603

    Leon said:

    Woke led to the rapes of maybe 100,000 white British girls by Muslim grooming gangs

    100,000. Possibly a lot more

    Why? Because the intersectional suffering of British Muslims (brown, marginalised, immigrant, poor) was deemed more important, and worthy of protection than “slutty white British girls from difficult backgrounds” who did not count in the hierarchy, and who had no one to protect them, Whereas these rapists had an entire industry of lawyers and diversity officers and the rest pushing their cause, and thereby cowing councillors and police into silence

    That’s what Woke does. If your intersectional oppression is deemed more important, tens of thousands of kids get raped

    When your life of lonely introversion that must be a requirement of the solitary traveller/travel journo gets tiresome, you might want to apply for a job with The Express, though you might want to tone done a little of the divisive hyperbole - they might consider it a little much even for their readership.
    Is he thumbing his way through his alt right websites again. Urgh!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,921

    Penny Mordaunt has some of the same mix of steel and emotionally capable female aspect as Angela Rayner and Lisa Nandy. That's a large part of it, and the Tories are always nothing if not good at sniffing out trends of political appeal.

    If she does get the job I hope she is not as lightweight as those two!
    Well, they're less lightweight than most members of the Commons, I would say.
    I think the Labour Party has a number of candidates that are considerably more able. Rayner comes across as only a little less thick than Corbyn. I am sure she would make a very competent lower middle manager.
    I would say Rayner is considerably brighter than Corbyn. She can think extremely quickly on her feet, at times.
    But then again plankton could probably make that claim
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877
    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    BBC NEWS called it both a coming stagflation, and blamed Brexit. They also brushed off the current best of breed growth by saying it’s only because ours dropped worse in first place.

    Is Nadine still editing the BBC?
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,055
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Woke led to the rapes of maybe 100,000 white British girls by Muslim grooming gangs

    100,000. Possibly a lot more

    Why? Because the intersectional suffering of British Muslims (brown, marginalised, immigrant, poor) was deemed more important, and worthy of protection than “slutty white British girls from difficult backgrounds” who did not count in the hierarchy, and who had no one to protect them, Whereas these rapists had an entire industry of lawyers and diversity officers and the rest pushing their cause, and thereby cowing councillors and police into silence

    That’s what Woke does. If your intersectional oppression is deemed more important, tens of thousands of kids get raped

    When your life of lonely introversion that must be a requirement of the solitary traveller/travel journo gets tiresome, you might want to apply for a job with The Express, though you might want to tone done a little of the divisive hyperbole - they might consider it a little much even for their readership.
    Yep blaming that all on 'woke' is the latest sad rambling from him.
    Woke is a meaningless term these days. Social Conservatism is more what I think the Tories are wanting to tack onto.

    However banging on about men in womens toilets when people cannot afford to put the heating on is not going to be a winner at the next GE.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 1,512
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Woke led to the rapes of maybe 100,000 white British girls by Muslim grooming gangs

    100,000. Possibly a lot more

    Why? Because the intersectional suffering of British Muslims (brown, marginalised, immigrant, poor) was deemed more important, and worthy of protection than “slutty white British girls from difficult backgrounds” who did not count in the hierarchy, and who had no one to protect them, Whereas these rapists had an entire industry of lawyers and diversity officers and the rest pushing their cause, and thereby cowing councillors and police into silence

    That’s what Woke does. If your intersectional oppression is deemed more important, tens of thousands of kids get raped

    When your life of lonely introversion that must be a requirement of the solitary traveller/travel journo gets tiresome, you might want to apply for a job with The Express, though you might want to tone done a little of the divisive hyperbole - they might consider it a little much even for their readership.
    Yep blaming that all on 'woke' is the latest sad rambling from him.
    From the summary of the Casey report on Rotherham council:

    The Council’s culture is unhealthy: bullying, sexism, suppression and misplaced
    ‘political correctness’ have cemented its failures. The Council is currently incapable
    of tackling its weaknesses, without a sustained intervention.


    The issue of race is contentious, with staff and
    Members lacking the confidence to tackle difficult issues for fear of being seen as
    racist or upsetting community cohesion. By failing to take action against the
    Pakistani heritage male perpetrators of CSE in the borough, the Council has
    inadvertently fuelled the far right and allowed racial tensions to grow. It has done a
    great disservice to the Pakistani heritage community and the good people of
    Rotherham as a result.


    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/401125/46966_Report_of_Inspection_of_Rotherham_WEB.pdf
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877
    Taz said:

    One of labours rising stars with a solution to the cost of living crisis.

    £15 an hour minimum wage.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/08/tackle-cost-living-crisis-raise-minimum-wage-15-pounds-hour?CMP=fb_cif

    Is this the start of Labour blowing their opportunity of finally forming some sort of government with costly and uncosted and unnecessary hobby horse policies.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,921
    Taz said:

    One of labours rising stars with a solution to the cost of living crisis.

    £15 an hour minimum wage.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/08/tackle-cost-living-crisis-raise-minimum-wage-15-pounds-hour?CMP=fb_cif

    So almost 30k a year for a full time job, wonders why all the people currently in stressful jobs where they need to commute won't just pack them in and go shelf stacking for the same money
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,759
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Woke led to the rapes of maybe 100,000 white British girls by Muslim grooming gangs

    100,000. Possibly a lot more

    Why? Because the intersectional suffering of British Muslims (brown, marginalised, immigrant, poor) was deemed more important, and worthy of protection than “slutty white British girls from difficult backgrounds” who did not count in the hierarchy, and who had no one to protect them, Whereas these rapists had an entire industry of lawyers and diversity officers and the rest pushing their cause, and thereby cowing councillors and police into silence

    That’s what Woke does. If your intersectional oppression is deemed more important, tens of thousands of kids get raped

    When your life of lonely introversion that must be a requirement of the solitary traveller/travel journo gets tiresome, you might want to apply for a job with The Express, though you might want to tone done a little of the divisive hyperbole - they might consider it a little much even for their readership.
    Yes, let’s just ignore tens of thousands of raped white British girls. Not an issue. Ditto the children raped by Catholic priests. Etc

    Do you ever stop and look at yourself?
    Yep, it is a prettier view than you get by looking in the mirror, both figuratively and literally (you really ought to get a better promo pic), and actually I do not ignore such horrific stories. I think you using them to promote your obsession with "woke" pretty sick though. You are often quite funny (often unintentionally), but on this you are not.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,603

    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    BBC NEWS called it both a coming stagflation, and blamed Brexit. They also brushed off the current best of breed growth by saying it’s only because ours dropped worse in first place.

    Is Nadine still editing the BBC?
    I wish we had an opposition with the courage to mention the B word. Watching Annaliese Dodds yesterday was excruciating
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 21,046

    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    BBC NEWS called it both a coming stagflation, and blamed Brexit. They also brushed off the current best of breed growth by saying it’s only because ours dropped worse in first place.

    Is Nadine still editing the BBC?
    Seems to me that every time the OECD or BofE release a forecast, it is growth slashed, inflation up.
    Not a pretty prospect.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,759
    Time to log off. Have a nice evening. My wife has made supper.
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 50
    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,055

    Time to log off. Have a nice evening. My wife has made supper.

    Supper. Lovely word. Reminds me of my father in law. He always talks about his supper.

    Enjoy.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 14,190

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    Monster Raving Loonies seem particularly well represented, especially as we get towards drinking up time.
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 50

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    Monster Raving Loonies seem particularly well represented, especially as we get towards drinking up time.
    That could represent most parties at most time to be honest.....
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,040
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    BBC NEWS called it both a coming stagflation, and blamed Brexit. They also brushed off the current best of breed growth by saying it’s only because ours dropped worse in first place.

    Is Nadine still editing the BBC?
    I wish we had an opposition with the courage to mention the B word. Watching Annaliese Dodds yesterday was excruciating
    In terms of Tactical Rhetoric (i.e. Oxbridge Union balls), the government have played a blinder. Johnson is desperate for someone mainstream to criticise this version of Brexit, becuase then he can do the "only I stand up for the will of the people" guff that he would really enjoy and would probably work. It might be the only thing to keep the 2016-19 gang together.

    It's rubbish for the country (we are going to be poorer as a result, and that's only a downside), but the political price for showing leadership not followership would be massive. And like it or not, if you lose elections, you don't get to do anything.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,055
    Pagan2 said:

    Taz said:

    One of labours rising stars with a solution to the cost of living crisis.

    £15 an hour minimum wage.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/08/tackle-cost-living-crisis-raise-minimum-wage-15-pounds-hour?CMP=fb_cif

    So almost 30k a year for a full time job, wonders why all the people currently in stressful jobs where they need to commute won't just pack them in and go shelf stacking for the same money
    And when businesses increase prices to recover increased labour costs and other costs of employment (pension, NI, holiday pay) then is the solution to increase wages further to cover these costs ?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877
    On Topic. How “decisive win for Boris” Penny’s campaign manager Leadsome has been since Monday makes me think if many candidates are positioning for a post general election contest now - not interest in owning fag end, recession and defeat as a LOTO?

    Anyone agree? Putting yourselves in their shoes, once Boris loses the general election is time for Fresh face to take over, Penny and many others may now be thinking. Last Monday’s VONC was a key moment in deciding the Tory leader igoing into next general election, leaving likes of Penny now preparing for a probable post election contest?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 42,901

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    Monster Raving Loonies seem particularly well represented, especially as we get towards drinking up time.
    Just remember these are not the Jedi you are looking for.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,844

    Penny Mordaunt has some of the same mix of steel and emotionally capable female aspect as Angela Rayner and Lisa Nandy. That's a large part of it, and the Tories are always nothing if not good at sniffing out trends of political appeal.

    If she does get the job I hope she is not as lightweight as those two!
    Well, they're less lightweight than most members of the Commons, I would say.
    I think the Labour Party has a number of candidates that are considerably more able. Rayner comes across as only a little less thick than Corbyn. I am sure she would make a very competent lower middle manager.
    I would say Rayner is considerably brighter than Corbyn. She can think extremely quickly on her feet, at times.
    Not when it comes to apologising. Her (according to some on here) brilliant apology for the 'scum' comment came a month after the original comment, after she had doubled down on them, and I think after a Tory MP had been murdered.

    Hardly thinking quickly on her feet; more of a glance at her true feelings.
    The scum thing is overdone.
    The problem is simply that she’s a bit thick.
    She’d be a good party chairman or something.
    Why is it 'overdone' ?
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 19,432
    edited June 8
    SURVATION

    Q2. Which of the following are important or not important when considering how you will vote in the
    Wakefield by-election?

    "Beergate" allegations over Keir Starmer drinking a beer in a constituency office:

    61% not important
    28% not important

    https://www.survation.com/labour-set-to-win-in-wakefield-by-election/

    Big G tried his best
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,534
    edited June 8

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    I would say that on the quietest days PB often tends to default back to the position it finds most natural on the centre-right, a bit like a compass finding true north again. The Cameroonian end of the Tories and the right of the LD's slightly outnumber others, I would say, but it's still rare and valuable in having a much wider and more unpredictable mix of views than that in total.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 40,121
    edited June 8

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    Sensible moderates dominate, from within all the political strands. That’s why zealots like HY or freelance off-the-wall extremists like Leon stand out so.

    The site is probably slowly trending from centre-right to centre-left reflecting the gradual repellence of the more educated from the neo-populist right.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 4,189

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    Well, there are a lot of educated and career-successful people, so probably more LDs and Camerooner or anti-Boris Tories and ex-Tories than the average.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,199
    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Woke led to the rapes of maybe 100,000 white British girls by Muslim grooming gangs

    100,000. Possibly a lot more

    Why? Because the intersectional suffering of British Muslims (brown, marginalised, immigrant, poor) was deemed more important, and worthy of protection than “slutty white British girls from difficult backgrounds” who did not count in the hierarchy, and who had no one to protect them, Whereas these rapists had an entire industry of lawyers and diversity officers and the rest pushing their cause, and thereby cowing councillors and police into silence

    That’s what Woke does. If your intersectional oppression is deemed more important, tens of thousands of kids get raped

    When your life of lonely introversion that must be a requirement of the solitary traveller/travel journo gets tiresome, you might want to apply for a job with The Express, though you might want to tone done a little of the divisive hyperbole - they might consider it a little much even for their readership.
    Yep blaming that all on 'woke' is the latest sad rambling from him.
    From the summary of the Casey report on Rotherham council:

    The Council’s culture is unhealthy: bullying, sexism, suppression and misplaced
    ‘political correctness’ have cemented its failures. The Council is currently incapable
    of tackling its weaknesses, without a sustained intervention.


    The issue of race is contentious, with staff and
    Members lacking the confidence to tackle difficult issues for fear of being seen as
    racist or upsetting community cohesion. By failing to take action against the
    Pakistani heritage male perpetrators of CSE in the borough, the Council has
    inadvertently fuelled the far right and allowed racial tensions to grow. It has done a
    great disservice to the Pakistani heritage community and the good people of
    Rotherham as a result.


    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/401125/46966_Report_of_Inspection_of_Rotherham_WEB.pdf
    Quite

    When anyone asks, like a bewildered old crone, what Woke is, and Why it Matters, point them to Rotherham
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,409

    Taz said:

    One of labours rising stars with a solution to the cost of living crisis.

    £15 an hour minimum wage.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/08/tackle-cost-living-crisis-raise-minimum-wage-15-pounds-hour?CMP=fb_cif

    Is this the start of Labour blowing their opportunity of finally forming some sort of government with costly and uncosted and unnecessary hobby horse policies.
    No.

    The author is a member of the Campaign Group and a backbencher. I stand to be corrected by the course of events, but I doubt that Rachel Reeves will repeat McDonnell's trick of stuffing the next Labour manifesto with a trillion squillion quid of unfunded spending commitments.

    On the general topic of how to make sure that lower paid and unemployed people don't starve or freeze to death, making sure that employers don't get away with poverty pay has its place, but zero hours contracts are more likely to be in the crosshairs of the next Labour-led administration than massive hikes in the minimum wage. More broadly, the most effective way to bolster rock-bottom incomes is to throw away the imported American attitude towards "welfare" claimants and have a return to a more generous rate of social security provision. Granted this is traditionally considered a hard sell for just about managing, small-c conservative voters who still buy into the schtick about working yourself into the ground for a pittance whilst resenting the "undeserving poor," but a couple of years of 10% inflation (meaning that they themselves are no longer able to manage) might help to change some minds.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 14,190

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    Monster Raving Loonies seem particularly well represented, especially as we get towards drinking up time.
    That could represent most parties at most time to be honest.....
    Also the new Party party was not very popular on here although there were a few diehard loyalists supporting them with quasi-effective deflection and obfuscation.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,603

    Where did she emerge from? Someone on here (can't recall who) said her extraordinary good looks would make her a global superstar and therefore an incalculable asset for GB. I can't quite see that myself, but maybe it's a meme that's spreading.

    We've seen her clothed. We've seen her in swimwear. We just need to find out if she's got a personality
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,534
    edited June 8
    IanB2 said:

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    Sensible moderates dominate, from within all the political strands. That’s why zealots like HY or freelance off-the-wall extremists like Leon stand out so.

    The site is probably slowly trending from centre-right to centre-left reflecting the gradual repellence of the more educated from the neo-populist right.
    Actually I agree with this too. There's some vague sense of movement from Orange book liberalism/Cameronism to Starmerism or further left in the LibDems, although quite a few here are still on the centre-right.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 5,596
    EPG said:

    What's Hunt's route to the final two, again? The Brexiteers? The 2019 intake?

    The route to the final two is maths and strategy. The maths is that if you have the support in the final round (when there are 3 candidates left) of a third of the MPs (+1) you are home and dry.

    The strategy is to not come bottom in that or any previous round by ensuring that someone else is less popular than you.

    It's a classic case of not having to run faster than the bear, just faster than at least one other person in the woods.

    If there are two candidates less unpopular than Hunt then he can't make it, except by luck. (The votes disproportionately go to one of the less unpopular ones not the other.)

    The MPs may have it in mind to carefully choose two non lunatics as the final two, even if they have to hold their noses, because if there is just one lunatic in the final two obvs the membership will choose that person. This gives Hunt a chance.

    However if MPs had that sort of strategic sense they would have chucked Boris out this week, as they all know that 54 letters mean his position can't be recovered but they decided to prolong the agony for themselves (and us). So don't bank on it. They really are that useless.

    I am on Hunt at 12/1. That's about right I think. It does require an outbreak of sanity. Not likely. Not impossible
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,603

    Penny Mordaunt has some of the same mix of steel and emotionally capable female aspect as Angela Rayner and Lisa Nandy. That's a large part of it, and the Tories are always nothing if not good at sniffing out trends of political appeal.

    If she does get the job I hope she is not as lightweight as those two!
    Well, they're less lightweight than most members of the Commons, I would say.
    I think the Labour Party has a number of candidates that are considerably more able. Rayner comes across as only a little less thick than Corbyn. I am sure she would make a very competent lower middle manager.
    I would say Rayner is considerably brighter than Corbyn. She can think extremely quickly on her feet, at times.
    Not when it comes to apologising. Her (according to some on here) brilliant apology for the 'scum' comment came a month after the original comment, after she had doubled down on them, and I think after a Tory MP had been murdered.

    Hardly thinking quickly on her feet; more of a glance at her true feelings.
    The scum thing is overdone.
    The problem is simply that she’s a bit thick.
    She’d be a good party chairman or something.
    Why is it 'overdone' ?
    She called Johnson 'Scum'. Not an attractive word but if you look at the dictionary definition it's defined as 'A worthless or contemptible person'

    My feeling is she was ahead of the game
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,199
    IanB2 said:

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    Sensible moderates dominate, from within all the political strands. That’s why zealots like HY or freelance off-the-wall extremists like Leon stand out so.

    The site is probably slowly trending from centre-right to centre-left reflecting the gradual repellence of the more educated from the neo-populist right.
    And, it also becomes more boring, due to more boring and less-intelligent people like you who begin to crowd out the genuinely interesting people. If the last amusing, free-thinking punters left, Sweet Jesus this site would suck the Devil’s Ice Cold Pizzle

    PB.com would be you, @Roger @Nigel_Foremain and @Heathener - and your ilk - who do not have a single interesting or amusing thought to share between you, from one year to the next. It would be an old people’s home. The tinkle of spoons on saucers would predominate. All else would be silence. And darkness
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 42,901
    edited June 8
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    Sensible moderates dominate, from within all the political strands. That’s why zealots like HY or freelance off-the-wall extremists like Leon stand out so.

    The site is probably slowly trending from centre-right to centre-left reflecting the gradual repellence of the more educated from the neo-populist right.
    And, it also becomes more boring, due to more boring and less-intelligent people like you who begin to crowd out the genuinely interesting people. If the last amusing, free-thinking punters left, Sweet Jesus this site would suck the Devil’s Ice Cold Pizzle

    PB.com would be you, @Roger @Nigel_Foremain and @Heathener - and your ilk - who do not have a single interesting or amusing thought to share between you, from one year to the next. It would be an old people’s home. The tinkle of spoons on saucers would predominate. All else would be silence. And darkness
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 5,596
    IanB2 said:

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    Sensible moderates dominate, from within all the political strands. That’s why zealots like HY or freelance off-the-wall extremists like Leon stand out so.

    The site is probably slowly trending from centre-right to centre-left reflecting the gradual repellence of the more educated from the neo-populist right.
    The One Nation centre right who see power, parliament and government as privileged service has no party at the moment, and are currently best represented by HMQ and (a bit behind but OK) SKS.

    Their shades are still around in the form of ex moderate MPs now in the HoL.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,283

    IanB2 said:

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    Sensible moderates dominate, from within all the political strands. That’s why zealots like HY or freelance off-the-wall extremists like Leon stand out so.

    The site is probably slowly trending from centre-right to centre-left reflecting the gradual repellence of the more educated from the neo-populist right.
    Actually I agree with this too. There's some vague sense of movement from Orange book liberalism/Cameronism to Starmerism or further left in the LibDems, although quite a few here are still on the centre-right.
    I've never been convinced this site is a political bell-weather. For almost all its existence, the Conservatives have been in the ascendancy - certainly from the election of Cameron as Conservative leader the momentum was with the Conservatives for a considerable period thanks in no small part to the self-destruction of both its principal political opponents in the 2010s.

    Now, as a wise man once said, the times they are a-changin'. I'm not convinced the next political direction has been set - it won't be re-hashed Blairism but may be a more environmentally based social democracy or liberalism (the success of Golob in Slovenia and to an extent the strong vote for NUPES in France currently both suggest centre-right populism has run its course).

    I literally don't know where the LDs for example are going to position for the next GE - Davey has publicly called for a cut in VAT.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 21,199
    edited June 8
    DavidL said:



    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    Sensible moderates dominate, from within all the political strands. That’s why zealots like HY or freelance off-the-wall extremists like Leon stand out so.

    The site is probably slowly trending from centre-right to centre-left reflecting the gradual repellence of the more educated from the neo-populist right.
    And, it also becomes more boring, due to more boring and less-intelligent people like you who begin to crowd out the genuinely interesting people. If the last amusing, free-thinking punters left, Sweet Jesus this site would suck the Devil’s Ice Cold Pizzle

    PB.com would be you, @Roger @Nigel_Foremain and @Heathener - and your ilk - who do not have a single interesting or amusing thought to share between you, from one year to the next. It would be an old people’s home. The tinkle of spoons on saucers would predominate. All else would be silence. And darkness
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
    Perhaps it is time for me to leave PB

    I hear Reddit is a gas
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,534
    edited June 8
    Roger said:

    Where did she emerge from? Someone on here (can't recall who) said her extraordinary good looks would make her a global superstar and therefore an incalculable asset for GB. I can't quite see that myself, but maybe it's a meme that's spreading.

    We've seen her clothed. We've seen her in swimwear. We just need to find out if she's got a personality
    That's the perils of appearing in swimwear, but she's clearly got more personality than most of the other candidates too. Take a look at her backstory - it's unorthodox and again reminds me of Rayner's, but just in a different social context.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877

    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    BBC NEWS called it both a coming stagflation, and blamed Brexit. They also brushed off the current best of breed growth by saying it’s only because ours dropped worse in first place.

    Is Nadine still editing the BBC?
    Paging St Bart, it’s all mainstream media from FT to BBC call it stagflation on account of stagnant growth and 9% inflation, without any mention of unemployment. Is this shoddy standards in journalism?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,921
    pigeon said:

    Taz said:

    One of labours rising stars with a solution to the cost of living crisis.

    £15 an hour minimum wage.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/08/tackle-cost-living-crisis-raise-minimum-wage-15-pounds-hour?CMP=fb_cif

    Is this the start of Labour blowing their opportunity of finally forming some sort of government with costly and uncosted and unnecessary hobby horse policies.
    No.

    The author is a member of the Campaign Group and a backbencher. I stand to be corrected by the course of events, but I doubt that Rachel Reeves will repeat McDonnell's trick of stuffing the next Labour manifesto with a trillion squillion quid of unfunded spending commitments.

    On the general topic of how to make sure that lower paid and unemployed people don't starve or freeze to death, making sure that employers don't get away with poverty pay has its place, but zero hours contracts are more likely to be in the crosshairs of the next Labour-led administration than massive hikes in the minimum wage. More broadly, the most effective way to bolster rock-bottom incomes is to throw away the imported American attitude towards "welfare" claimants and have a return to a more generous rate of social security provision. Granted this is traditionally considered a hard sell for just about managing, small-c conservative voters who still buy into the schtick about working yourself into the ground for a pittance whilst resenting the "undeserving poor," but a couple of years of 10% inflation (meaning that they themselves are no longer able to manage) might help to change some minds.
    I don't think the attitude to welfare claimants from the just about managing is ill founded though....this is how they look at it and I think they have a point.

    This is how they look at it

    Single person working 40 hours per week on min wage takes home roughly 17k a year

    single person on uc gets uc+council tax rebate+housing benefit+free prescriptions and in the south east where I am just the first 3 = 277+650+120 a month for a take home of 12564.

    So the way they look at it is I am slogging my guts out 40 hours a week all year and it equates to about an extra 80 a week or to put it another way I earn 2£ an hour in reality

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    There’s more republicans on here than at a Republican rally. Only Very few of us speak up for the CoE and faith. PB bizarrely unrepresentative in people who don’t say their prayers each night. I can’t explain why but that’s how it is.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 4,189
    stodge said:

    IanB2 said:

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    Sensible moderates dominate, from within all the political strands. That’s why zealots like HY or freelance off-the-wall extremists like Leon stand out so.

    The site is probably slowly trending from centre-right to centre-left reflecting the gradual repellence of the more educated from the neo-populist right.
    Actually I agree with this too. There's some vague sense of movement from Orange book liberalism/Cameronism to Starmerism or further left in the LibDems, although quite a few here are still on the centre-right.
    I've never been convinced this site is a political bell-weather. For almost all its existence, the Conservatives have been in the ascendancy - certainly from the election of Cameron as Conservative leader the momentum was with the Conservatives for a considerable period thanks in no small part to the self-destruction of both its principal political opponents in the 2010s.

    Now, as a wise man once said, the times they are a-changin'. I'm not convinced the next political direction has been set - it won't be re-hashed Blairism but may be a more environmentally based social democracy or liberalism (the success of Golob in Slovenia and to an extent the strong vote for NUPES in France currently both suggest centre-right populism has run its course).

    I literally don't know where the LDs for example are going to position for the next GE - Davey has publicly called for a cut in VAT.
    There are plenty of upscale Southerners educated at top universities here, and apart from a revival under Cameron the Conservatives have been shedding them for two decades of Europe, immigration, Europe, immigration, etc. Course, they consolidated midscale clerical and manual workers, but I get the impression PB has more lawyers and bankers than clerks and tellers.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,268
    edited June 8

    SURVATION

    Q2. Which of the following are important or not important when considering how you will vote in the
    Wakefield by-election?

    "Beergate" allegations over Keir Starmer drinking a beer in a constituency office:

    61% not important
    28% not important

    https://www.survation.com/labour-set-to-win-in-wakefield-by-election/

    Big G tried his best

    On today's performance he is the conservatives best weapon

    And have you apologised to @HYUFD over your allegation he is paid to post here ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,055

    SURVATION

    Q2. Which of the following are important or not important when considering how you will vote in the
    Wakefield by-election?

    "Beergate" allegations over Keir Starmer drinking a beer in a constituency office:

    61% not important
    28% not important

    https://www.survation.com/labour-set-to-win-in-wakefield-by-election/

    Big G tried his best

    On today's performance he is the conservatives best weapon

    And have you apologised to @HYUFD over your allegation he is paid to post here ?
    Well his Dad was a toolmaker.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,135
    edited June 8
    stodge said:

    IanB2 said:

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    Sensible moderates dominate, from within all the political strands. That’s why zealots like HY or freelance off-the-wall extremists like Leon stand out so.

    The site is probably slowly trending from centre-right to centre-left reflecting the gradual repellence of the more educated from the neo-populist right.
    Actually I agree with this too. There's some vague sense of movement from Orange book liberalism/Cameronism to Starmerism or further left in the LibDems, although quite a few here are still on the centre-right.
    I've never been convinced this site is a political bell-weather. For almost all its existence, the Conservatives have been in the ascendancy - certainly from the election of Cameron as Conservative leader the momentum was with the Conservatives for a considerable period thanks in no small part to the self-destruction of both its principal political opponents in the 2010s.

    Now, as a wise man once said, the times they are a-changin'. I'm not convinced the next political direction has been set - it won't be re-hashed Blairism but may be a more environmentally based social democracy or liberalism (the success of Golob in Slovenia and to an extent the strong vote for NUPES in France currently both suggest centre-right populism has run its course).

    I literally don't know where the LDs for example are going to position for the next GE - Davey has publicly called for a cut in VAT.
    It's a tolerant site in general, but the centre of gravity is probably centre-right, with lots of former Tories repelled by amoral populism but not suddenly converted to social democracy.

    My LibDem friends are nearly all simply focused on winning, and vaguely think that getting rid of the Tories and establishing sensible moderate rule is all that's needed - worry about the details later. There are plenty of Labour people like that too, but also quite a lot like me who want to win but want to have a concrete sense of direction. That's not a huge division, which is why tactical voting is so prevalent, and it's that as much as the Government's real or perceived failings that will probably see the Tories out next time.

    Curiously, I don't think most of the Tories will mind all that much. Johnson himself sees it pretty much as a game - he loves winning, but recognises that sometimes you lose, oh well. Many Conservatives recognise that the Government has lost any identifiable form or direction and would quite like a spell in opposition to sort themselves out. Very few really feel a Starmer government dependent on Libdem votes is a very scary thought.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 21,046
    edited June 8

    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    BBC NEWS called it both a coming stagflation, and blamed Brexit. They also brushed off the current best of breed growth by saying it’s only because ours dropped worse in first place.

    Is Nadine still editing the BBC?
    Paging St Bart, it’s all mainstream media from FT to BBC call it stagflation on account of stagnant growth and 9% inflation, without any mention of unemployment. Is this shoddy standards in journalism?
    It's n=1 isn't it?
    Stagflation, as coined by McLeod, was slow growth high inflation. But because the only experience we've had of that was rising and high unemployment, that became part of the definition.
    I detect this fallacy in another area. Experience of Labour replacing the Tories in government, if you are under 65? n=1. Therefore. Labour needs to be 20 points ahead to win.
    Folk say "This is nothing like 1997!"
    Thatcher wasn't. Cameron wasn't. But Blair was, and often more. But Blair is a huge outlier. Nobody has ever had leads of such magnitude over a sustained period.
    Folk make the mistake of thinking the next time will be exactly like their only other experience of something. It rarely is. Don't believe me? Have a second child.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877

    On Topic. How “decisive win for Boris” Penny’s campaign manager Leadsome has been since Monday makes me think if many candidates are positioning for a post general election contest now - not interest in owning fag end, recession and defeat as a LOTO?

    Anyone agree? Putting yourselves in their shoes, once Boris loses the general election is time for Fresh face to take over, Penny and many others may now be thinking. Last Monday’s VONC was a key moment in deciding the Tory leader igoing into next general election, leaving likes of Penny now preparing for a probable post election contest?

    Oh come on, where are all the likes missing from that post, it was spot on!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,566
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:



    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    Sensible moderates dominate, from within all the political strands. That’s why zealots like HY or freelance off-the-wall extremists like Leon stand out so.

    The site is probably slowly trending from centre-right to centre-left reflecting the gradual repellence of the more educated from the neo-populist right.
    And, it also becomes more boring, due to more boring and less-intelligent people like you who begin to crowd out the genuinely interesting people. If the last amusing, free-thinking punters left, Sweet Jesus this site would suck the Devil’s Ice Cold Pizzle

    PB.com would be you, @Roger @Nigel_Foremain and @Heathener - and your ilk - who do not have a single interesting or amusing thought to share between you, from one year to the next. It would be an old people’s home. The tinkle of spoons on saucers would predominate. All else would be silence. And darkness
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
    Perhaps it is time for me to leave PB

    I hear Reddit is a gas
    Time for a regeneration at least.

    A former Wokist who has seen the error of his ways perhaps?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 26,128
    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    Interesting that the BBC are more balanced about this than Channel 4. A few points from the BBC report.

    These are just predictions not actual measures.
    This year the UK will have the fastest growth in the G7 so 'worst performance' is frankly bollocks.
    Next year we are predicted to have the worst performance in the G7. So if that comes true then they will have a point. Until the it is nothing more than a prediction and, as the BBC says, there are a huge number of variables that could change it quite considerably.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,268

    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    Interesting that the BBC are more balanced about this than Channel 4. A few points from the BBC report.

    These are just predictions not actual measures.
    This year the UK will have the fastest growth in the G7 so 'worst performance' is frankly bollocks.
    Next year we are predicted to have the worst performance in the G7. So if that comes true then they will have a point. Until the it is nothing more than a prediction and, as the BBC says, there are a huge number of variables that could change it quite considerably.
    As I understand the report it is because taxes are too high and a tax cutting budget is needed including vat, corporation tax, and increase personal allowances
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 42,901

    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    Interesting that the BBC are more balanced about this than Channel 4. A few points from the BBC report.

    These are just predictions not actual measures.
    This year the UK will have the fastest growth in the G7 so 'worst performance' is frankly bollocks.
    Next year we are predicted to have the worst performance in the G7. So if that comes true then they will have a point. Until the it is nothing more than a prediction and, as the BBC says, there are a huge number of variables that could change it quite considerably.
    As I understand the report it is because taxes are too high and a tax cutting budget is needed including vat, corporation tax, and increase personal allowances
    So a complete reverse on Rishi's budget then?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,268
    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    Interesting that the BBC are more balanced about this than Channel 4. A few points from the BBC report.

    These are just predictions not actual measures.
    This year the UK will have the fastest growth in the G7 so 'worst performance' is frankly bollocks.
    Next year we are predicted to have the worst performance in the G7. So if that comes true then they will have a point. Until the it is nothing more than a prediction and, as the BBC says, there are a huge number of variables that could change it quite considerably.
    As I understand the report it is because taxes are too high and a tax cutting budget is needed including vat, corporation tax, and increase personal allowances
    So a complete reverse on Rishi's budget then?
    Yes and if he won't get someone who will
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 8,387
    US House Party Caucuses & Coalitions as of June 2022

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/v7rq5e/i_made_a_map_of_the_caucus_breakdown_of_the_us/

    Thing that strikes me from this very interesting map, is the geographical diversity of all the groupings, at least in terms of being spread across the landscape and NOT clumped in just one section. More cohesion in terms of demography including urban & suburban, exurban & rural.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 26,128

    On Topic. How “decisive win for Boris” Penny’s campaign manager Leadsome has been since Monday makes me think if many candidates are positioning for a post general election contest now - not interest in owning fag end, recession and defeat as a LOTO?

    Anyone agree? Putting yourselves in their shoes, once Boris loses the general election is time for Fresh face to take over, Penny and many others may now be thinking. Last Monday’s VONC was a key moment in deciding the Tory leader igoing into next general election, leaving likes of Penny now preparing for a probable post election contest?

    Not sure I agree. I think the rebels probably picked the latest possible moment they could for their VOC. If they had won then great. If they lost then under the current rules the next VOC can't be until June 2023. That is, to my mind, about as late as they would possibly want to leave it ahead of a 2024 GE. This way they get a second bite of the cherry next summer and still time to get a leader in place who has some chance of them winning the next GE.

    So I think there will be another challenge - at least one more - next summer.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 4,189

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:



    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    Sensible moderates dominate, from within all the political strands. That’s why zealots like HY or freelance off-the-wall extremists like Leon stand out so.

    The site is probably slowly trending from centre-right to centre-left reflecting the gradual repellence of the more educated from the neo-populist right.
    And, it also becomes more boring, due to more boring and less-intelligent people like you who begin to crowd out the genuinely interesting people. If the last amusing, free-thinking punters left, Sweet Jesus this site would suck the Devil’s Ice Cold Pizzle

    PB.com would be you, @Roger @Nigel_Foremain and @Heathener - and your ilk - who do not have a single interesting or amusing thought to share between you, from one year to the next. It would be an old people’s home. The tinkle of spoons on saucers would predominate. All else would be silence. And darkness
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
    Perhaps it is time for me to leave PB

    I hear Reddit is a gas
    Time for a regeneration at least.

    A former Wokist who has seen the error of his ways perhaps?
    The 20-year old Corbynite girlfriend?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,409

    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    Interesting that the BBC are more balanced about this than Channel 4. A few points from the BBC report.

    These are just predictions not actual measures.
    This year the UK will have the fastest growth in the G7 so 'worst performance' is frankly bollocks.
    Next year we are predicted to have the worst performance in the G7. So if that comes true then they will have a point. Until the it is nothing more than a prediction and, as the BBC says, there are a huge number of variables that could change it quite considerably.
    As I understand the report it is because taxes are too high and a tax cutting budget is needed including vat, corporation tax, and increase personal allowances
    Fascinating.

    Is this all to be paid for with another thirty trillion quid in borrowing, or are we going back to austerity - in which case, what is the Government going to stop paying for this time?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,844
    Roger said:

    Penny Mordaunt has some of the same mix of steel and emotionally capable female aspect as Angela Rayner and Lisa Nandy. That's a large part of it, and the Tories are always nothing if not good at sniffing out trends of political appeal.

    If she does get the job I hope she is not as lightweight as those two!
    Well, they're less lightweight than most members of the Commons, I would say.
    I think the Labour Party has a number of candidates that are considerably more able. Rayner comes across as only a little less thick than Corbyn. I am sure she would make a very competent lower middle manager.
    I would say Rayner is considerably brighter than Corbyn. She can think extremely quickly on her feet, at times.
    Not when it comes to apologising. Her (according to some on here) brilliant apology for the 'scum' comment came a month after the original comment, after she had doubled down on them, and I think after a Tory MP had been murdered.

    Hardly thinking quickly on her feet; more of a glance at her true feelings.
    The scum thing is overdone.
    The problem is simply that she’s a bit thick.
    She’d be a good party chairman or something.
    Why is it 'overdone' ?
    She called Johnson 'Scum'. Not an attractive word but if you look at the dictionary definition it's defined as 'A worthless or contemptible person'

    My feeling is she was ahead of the game
    She was referring to more than Johnson.

    I'd rather guessed that would have been your feeling. ;)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 16,604

    On Topic. How “decisive win for Boris” Penny’s campaign manager Leadsome has been since Monday makes me think if many candidates are positioning for a post general election contest now - not interest in owning fag end, recession and defeat as a LOTO?

    Anyone agree? Putting yourselves in their shoes, once Boris loses the general election is time for Fresh face to take over, Penny and many others may now be thinking. Last Monday’s VONC was a key moment in deciding the Tory leader igoing into next general election, leaving likes of Penny now preparing for a probable post election contest?

    Oh come on, where are all the likes missing from that post, it was spot on!
    Your posts can be a little difficult to decipher sometimes. I am always editing mine for typos after posting - we should perhaps both get into the habit of reading them through before publishing them.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,268
    pigeon said:

    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    Interesting that the BBC are more balanced about this than Channel 4. A few points from the BBC report.

    These are just predictions not actual measures.
    This year the UK will have the fastest growth in the G7 so 'worst performance' is frankly bollocks.
    Next year we are predicted to have the worst performance in the G7. So if that comes true then they will have a point. Until the it is nothing more than a prediction and, as the BBC says, there are a huge number of variables that could change it quite considerably.
    As I understand the report it is because taxes are too high and a tax cutting budget is needed including vat, corporation tax, and increase personal allowances
    Fascinating.

    Is this all to be paid for with another thirty trillion quid in borrowing, or are we going back to austerity - in which case, what is the Government going to stop paying for this time?
    Paid for by generating growth
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,040

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    Interesting that the BBC are more balanced about this than Channel 4. A few points from the BBC report.

    These are just predictions not actual measures.
    This year the UK will have the fastest growth in the G7 so 'worst performance' is frankly bollocks.
    Next year we are predicted to have the worst performance in the G7. So if that comes true then they will have a point. Until the it is nothing more than a prediction and, as the BBC says, there are a huge number of variables that could change it quite considerably.
    As I understand the report it is because taxes are too high and a tax cutting budget is needed including vat, corporation tax, and increase personal allowances
    So a complete reverse on Rishi's budget then?
    Yes and if he won't get someone who will
    The trouble is- if you want to cut taxes, what spending are you going to cut to fund it?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    Interesting that the BBC are more balanced about this than Channel 4. A few points from the BBC report.

    These are just predictions not actual measures.
    This year the UK will have the fastest growth in the G7 so 'worst performance' is frankly bollocks.
    Next year we are predicted to have the worst performance in the G7. So if that comes true then they will have a point. Until the it is nothing more than a prediction and, as the BBC says, there are a huge number of variables that could change it quite considerably.
    As I understand the report it is because taxes are too high and a tax cutting budget is needed including vat, corporation tax, and increase personal allowances
    So a complete reverse on Rishi's budget then?
    Yes and if he won't get someone who will
    My understanding of economics is raise tax early to fight inflation.
    Borrow money for spending and cut taxes particularly vat to fight slump in growth.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 21,046

    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    Interesting that the BBC are more balanced about this than Channel 4. A few points from the BBC report.

    These are just predictions not actual measures.
    This year the UK will have the fastest growth in the G7 so 'worst performance' is frankly bollocks.
    Next year we are predicted to have the worst performance in the G7. So if that comes true then they will have a point. Until the it is nothing more than a prediction and, as the BBC says, there are a huge number of variables that could change it quite considerably.
    As I understand the report it is because taxes are too high and a tax cutting budget is needed including vat, corporation tax, and increase personal allowances
    Where did you find that? The OECD is a forecast. It rarely recommends action.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,268

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    Interesting that the BBC are more balanced about this than Channel 4. A few points from the BBC report.

    These are just predictions not actual measures.
    This year the UK will have the fastest growth in the G7 so 'worst performance' is frankly bollocks.
    Next year we are predicted to have the worst performance in the G7. So if that comes true then they will have a point. Until the it is nothing more than a prediction and, as the BBC says, there are a huge number of variables that could change it quite considerably.
    As I understand the report it is because taxes are too high and a tax cutting budget is needed including vat, corporation tax, and increase personal allowances
    So a complete reverse on Rishi's budget then?
    Yes and if he won't get someone who will
    My understanding of economics is raise tax early to fight inflation.
    Borrow money for spending and cut taxes particularly vat to fight slump in growth.
    Borrow money for investment not spending on wages
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 42,901
    There is nothing that this or any government can do to stop us having 6-9 months of misery. Inflation is going to remain high until the new year. Unemployment will edge up. A technical recession is very likely. There are going to be masses of public sector strikes and vain attempts by the government to restrain public sector pay. We are all getting poorer, fast and it is not much fun.

    By 2023 Q2 things might start to improve. But until then we all need to buckle down and brace ourselves. A government with a sense of direction and a sense of priorities would help but only at the edges. The biggest problem we have are fuel prices because the delivery costs drive the cost of everything else. Rishi took 5p off duty, it turned out to be less than a week's increase. That shows how futile the government's efforts are in the face of the tsunami. Brace, brace and think of the most vulnerable.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,135

    Question for PBers - PB generally has alot of arguments from all sides of the political spectrum, but does anyone think that one side of the political wings has a dominant presence here?

    There’s more republicans on here than at a Republican rally. Only Very few of us speak up for the CoE and faith. PB bizarrely unrepresentative in people who don’t say their prayers each night. I can’t explain why but that’s how it is.
    Do most people outside PB? I'm not criticising it, but I've never met any adult who said they did. I know quite a few regular church-goers, but that's where they generally pray.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 45,452

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    The worst economic performance in the G20 excluding Russia. They're discussing it on C4 News.

    Is it Brexit they want to know?


    Interesting that the BBC are more balanced about this than Channel 4. A few points from the BBC report.

    These are just predictions not actual measures.
    This year the UK will have the fastest growth in the G7 so 'worst performance' is frankly bollocks.
    Next year we are predicted to have the worst performance in the G7. So if that comes true then they will have a point. Until the it is nothing more than a prediction and, as the BBC says, there are a huge number of variables that could change it quite considerably.
    As I understand the report it is because taxes are too high and a tax cutting budget is needed including vat, corporation tax, and increase personal allowances
    So a complete reverse on Rishi's budget then?
    Yes and if he won't get someone who will
    My understanding of economics is raise tax early to fight inflation.
    Borrow money for spending and cut taxes particularly vat to fight slump in growth.
    Borrow money for investment not spending on wages
    To quote Callaghan: "We used to think that you could spend your way out of a recession, and increase employ­ment by cutting taxes and boosting Government spending. I tell you in all candour that that option no longer exists."
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 14,190
    DavidL said:

    There is nothing that this or any government can do to stop us having 6-9 months of misery. Inflation is going to remain high until the new year. Unemployment will edge up. A technical recession is very likely. There are going to be masses of public sector strikes and vain attempts by the government to restrain public sector pay. We are all getting poorer, fast and it is not much fun.

    By 2023 Q2 things might start to improve. But until then we all need to buckle down and brace ourselves. A government with a sense of direction and a sense of priorities would help but only at the edges. The biggest problem we have are fuel prices because the delivery costs drive the cost of everything else. Rishi took 5p off duty, it turned out to be less than a week's increase. That shows how futile the government's efforts are in the face of the tsunami. Brace, brace and think of the most vulnerable.

    Over half the price of petrol goes to the government, it is absurd to suggest they cannot influence the price significantly.
This discussion has been closed.