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The betting money’s still going on a 2022 BJ exit – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited June 13 in General
imageThe betting money’s still going on a 2022 BJ exit – politicalbetting.com

Although Johnson “won” Monday’s vote punters are still putting money on him not surviving in 2022 and this remains the betting favourite for his exit year..

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,006
    Always the last to know
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,038
    England are losing cos they is playing in Tory Blue :lol:
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,701
    Southgate out!
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,614

    Southgate out!

    This helps to keep our expectations realistic for the World Cup
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,701
    edited June 7

    Southgate out!

    This helps to keep our expectations realistic for the World Cup
    Laying England is always a great strategy in major tournaments.

    Absolute balls of steel needed for my treason last summer though.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,038

    Southgate out!

    He's only two stops from Cockfosters :lol:
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 4,537
    Anyone saying "wait until 23 June" would have on 24 June been saying "wait until the Privileges Committee report". There will always be a reason to wait, but many thought there was enough reason to act now and I agree with them - but the vote was lost and would probably have been lost on any other date too, MPs have made their choice democratically.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,925
    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,614

    Southgate out!

    He's only two stops from Cockfosters :lol:
    They won't be renaming the station this time...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,701
    Paging @Cyclefree

    Exclusive: Concerns have been raised at the top of government over the legality of contentious Northern Ireland Protocol legislation, which ministers are set to bring forward in the next few days.

    Correspondence seen by PoliticsHome has cast doubt over the government's argument that its plan to override parts of the post-Brexit treaty without an agreement with the European Union would not breach international law.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/northern-ireland-protocol-bill-legality
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 32,311

    Southgate out!

    I don't know why Southgate calls up fresh faces, then keeps them idle on the bench. Give Bowen or Gallagher a start and see what they can do.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 32,311
    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    That's as maybe, but why does it matter?

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 44,851

    Southgate out!

    This helps to keep our expectations realistic for the World Cup
    Laying England is always a great strategy in major tournaments.

    Absolute balls of steel needed for my treason last summer though.
    I lose money whenever I bet on sport or Eurovision.

    And I never learn.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,399
    edited June 7
    Power of patronage. Indeed.

    I knew I'd predicted at the very high end of the possible range for No Confidence votes, I felt with a secret ballot and a forward view of Boris's likely course from here, a decent number of the payroll might turn also feeling they could do as well under someone else.

    The VONC, it turned out, was more ordinary than that - the payroll broadly stayed in line (no more than a couple of dozen vonced him?), but the massive size of the payroll, 178, shocked me (I think there are maximum numbers of some roles).

    So, things get iffier, increase the (informal) payroll to 250, and ride future voncs. Job done?

    And I still twitch that Boris might go into GE 24 with a majority of 120+ by jettisoning Scotland. Time is tight to bounce indy so quickly, and I think not, COVID and tough talk may have put paid to it, but I'm still twitchy. And England would get a separation as half baked as the NIP.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,701
    Looks like Boris Johnson is going to outrival the Night of the Long Knives for cabinet sacking by a factor of 3:1.

    Fun fact SuperMac sacked a third of his cabinet in one go.

    Boris Johnson warns ministers to raise their game or face the sack. Colleagues say he’s not minded towards an immediate reshuffle.

    “Boris knows people have to perform and some are not. He will assess performance in the cold hard light of day.”


    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1534258100567523328
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 44,851
    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    Given where the conversation got to on the last thread we are almost at the "your mum" stage and it might even further debase to "your dad".
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 2,918
    edited June 7
    https://twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/1534266753970229250?t=1uenU76pncYBe2lSuiV6WQ&s=19

    The Sun with the comedy tonight

    Boris is in trouble because Tories are jealous of his charisma - but he must do better: Sun readers react to votes https://t.co/MVfNWkgdN1
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,038
    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    "I mean, women loved him! I didn't see that one coming."
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,038
    Who decided that they play in Tory Blue? No wonder England are losing!
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 4,537

    Paging @Cyclefree

    Exclusive: Concerns have been raised at the top of government over the legality of contentious Northern Ireland Protocol legislation, which ministers are set to bring forward in the next few days.

    Correspondence seen by PoliticsHome has cast doubt over the government's argument that its plan to override parts of the post-Brexit treaty without an agreement with the European Union would not breach international law.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/northern-ireland-protocol-bill-legality

    The legislation should be passed, but the legislation should invoke Article 16. That would be legal and consistent with international law since that is what Article 16 is there for; IANAL but I fail to see how it can be legal without invoking A16 first as that is the safeguard in the Protocol.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 2,918

    Looks like Boris Johnson is going to outrival the Night of the Long Knives for cabinet sacking by a factor of 3:1.

    Fun fact SuperMac sacked a third of his cabinet in one go.

    Boris Johnson warns ministers to raise their game or face the sack. Colleagues say he’s not minded towards an immediate reshuffle.

    “Boris knows people have to perform and some are not. He will assess performance in the cold hard light of day.”


    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1534258100567523328

    I'll teach you supine fuckers to show me loyalty.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,925
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    That's as maybe, but why does it matter?

    Because they started it, Miss

    No, really, if you go back over the previous debate it began quite civilised until @JosiasJessop started questioning my worth as a father and a male, so I (naturally) gave it back and then it all kicked off from there

    And during this unseemly fracas we learned that @JosiasJessop is probably a cuck, and @Nigel_Foremain is likely gay

    PB’s finest hour? No. But talk to them, not me
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,063
    Foxy said:

    Southgate out!

    I don't know why Southgate calls up fresh faces, then keeps them idle on the bench. Give Bowen or Gallagher a start and see what they can do.
    Bowen started the last game, didn't he?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 14,139

    England are losing cos they is playing in Tory Blue :lol:

    Playing in red scientifically shown to be advantageous in most sports including football.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,381

    Southgate out!

    This helps to keep our expectations realistic for the World Cup
    Laying England is always a great strategy in major tournaments.

    Absolute balls of steel needed for my treason last summer though.
    Beware the monkey's paw. Steel nuts aren't procreative.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 14,139

    Looks like Boris Johnson is going to outrival the Night of the Long Knives for cabinet sacking by a factor of 3:1.

    Fun fact SuperMac sacked a third of his cabinet in one go.

    Boris Johnson warns ministers to raise their game or face the sack. Colleagues say he’s not minded towards an immediate reshuffle.

    “Boris knows people have to perform and some are not. He will assess performance in the cold hard light of day.”


    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1534258100567523328

    Perhaps he could go for a 360 degree evaluation for himself?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,701
    .

    Southgate out!

    This helps to keep our expectations realistic for the World Cup
    Laying England is always a great strategy in major tournaments.

    Absolute balls of steel needed for my treason last summer though.
    I lose money whenever I bet on sport or Eurovision.

    And I never learn.
    Lay England in all major football tournaments and Le Royaume-Uni in Eurovision and you'll always be green.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,754
    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    Whether I am or not is immaterial, and of no consequence. What is more interesting is your obsession with proving your masculinity and your obvious horror at my suggestion that it might be a psychological consequence of your repressed homoerotic fantasies. Just as a further point of interest, how tall are you? About 5'7 perhaps? (Don't worry I wouldn't possibly dream of asking you about whether you are smaller than average in the trouser department)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 45,381
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    That's as maybe, but why does it matter?

    Because they started it, Miss

    No, really, if you go back over the previous debate it began quite civilised until @JosiasJessop started questioning my worth as a father and a male, so I (naturally) gave it back and then it all kicked off from there

    And during this unseemly fracas we learned that @JosiasJessop is probably a cuck, and @Nigel_Foremain is likely gay

    PB’s finest hour? No. But talk to them, not me
    Wait.

    You have worth at a father?

    Do your children know?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,754
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    That's as maybe, but why does it matter?

    Because they started it, Miss

    No, really, if you go back over the previous debate it began quite civilised until @JosiasJessop started questioning my worth as a father and a male, so I (naturally) gave it back and then it all kicked off from there

    And during this unseemly fracas we learned that @JosiasJessop is probably a cuck, and @Nigel_Foremain is likely gay

    PB’s finest hour? No. But talk to them, not me
    I thought your posts even ruder and less funny than normal, so I thought I would add a little psychological spice. I am also not reactionary enough to be offended by you assuming that I am gay. I think it is quite a compliment. xxx
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 22,366
    edited June 7
    FTPT

    Someone said that we should be glad that the EU didn't force phone charger standardisation in the past otherwise we would be stuck with micro-USB.

    But they did force standardisation on micro-USB!

    The European Comission pushing it is why we stopped having a million different propriety connectors, it wasnt the market magicly solving anything

    https://www.engadget.com/2010-12-29-european-standardization-bodies-formalize-micro-usb-cellphone-ch.html
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,009

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    Whether I am or not is immaterial, and of no consequence. What is more interesting is your obsession with proving your masculinity and your obvious horror at my suggestion that it might be a psychological consequence of your repressed homoerotic fantasies. Just as a further point of interest, how tall are you? About 5'7 perhaps? (Don't worry I wouldn't possibly dream of asking you about whether you are smaller than average in the trouser department)
    Oi! Nothing wrong with being 5 foot 7. And my trousers are perfectly comfortable.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,777
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    That's as maybe, but why does it matter?

    Because they started it, Miss

    No, really, if you go back over the previous debate it began quite civilised until @JosiasJessop started questioning my worth as a father and a male, so I (naturally) gave it back and then it all kicked off from there

    And during this unseemly fracas we learned that @JosiasJessop is probably a cuck, and @Nigel_Foremain is likely gay

    PB’s finest hour? No. But talk to them, not me
    I fear your projections of my being a 'cuck' might be based on your being, in fact, an utter cock. And a small one at that. ;)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,260
    Evening all :)

    Shock while out on my evening constitutional.

    Before I went on my hols, petrol was 162.9p per litre at my local Tesco's. Last Sunday, it was 171.9p and tonight it's 180.9p per litre. At this rate, the £2 litre is probably 10 days away.

    And yet...

    The drivers were still queueing up to fill up - it's as though the dependency is such we will pay anything to keep the show (or the car) on the road. The demand still seems very strong but are we like Wile E Coyote and have gone over the cliff and yet to look down?

    I can't believe this won't have an impact - it is having an impact - 2 litres of milk now £1.29 at the aforementioned Tesco's. I suppose inevitably those who have less in terms of disposable income will fell it hardest, quickest and longest.

    A collapse in demand should send the oil price back down - it did in 2008 and 2020 (very different scenarios of course).

    West Texas Intermediate back above $120 a barrel.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,073
    In comms leaked to ⁦@politicshome⁩ a senior figure advising the gov on legal matters says they believe it can’t be "credibly" argued on legal grounds there’s currently no alt to unilaterally altering the NI protocol. Story by ⁦@adampayne26⁩ https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/northern-ireland-protocol-bill-legality
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 32,311
    Applicant said:

    Foxy said:

    Southgate out!

    I don't know why Southgate calls up fresh faces, then keeps them idle on the bench. Give Bowen or Gallagher a start and see what they can do.
    Bowen started the last game, didn't he?
    Missed that one because Platty Jubes, but fair enough.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 1,913

    Paging @Cyclefree

    Exclusive: Concerns have been raised at the top of government over the legality of contentious Northern Ireland Protocol legislation, which ministers are set to bring forward in the next few days.

    Correspondence seen by PoliticsHome has cast doubt over the government's argument that its plan to override parts of the post-Brexit treaty without an agreement with the European Union would not breach international law.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/northern-ireland-protocol-bill-legality

    Genuine question: what is this “international law”?

    There are certain specific treaty courts, etc (like WTO) and the Netherlands war crime one (ICJ?) but what is the law saying a government can’t do something like this and who made it binding on us?

    (Nb for avoidance of doubt this is not saying they should do this)
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 1,488
    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Someone said that we should be glad that the EU didn't force phone charger standardisation in the past otherwise we would be stuck with micro-USB.

    But they did force standardisation on micro-USB!

    The European Comission pushing it is why we stopped having a million different propriety connectors, it wasnt the market magicly solving anything

    https://www.engadget.com/2010-12-29-european-standardization-bodies-formalize-micro-usb-cellphone-ch.html

    The Garmin charger is useless. A surprise given it's a premium brand.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,466
    *looks in, sees the personalisation of the woke gender debate, and disappears pronto to read a book instead*
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 4,537
    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Someone said that we should be glad that the EU didn't force phone charger standardisation in the past otherwise we would be stuck with micro-USB.

    But they did force standardisation on micro-USB!

    The European Comission pushing it is why we stopped having a million different propriety connectors, it wasnt the market magicly solving anything

    https://www.engadget.com/2010-12-29-european-standardization-bodies-formalize-micro-usb-cellphone-ch.html

    No they didn't, the companies named voluntarily chose to sign up to the micro USB standard, they weren't legislated to do so. Notably Apple didn't which is why they still have the lightning connection.

    If it were standardised we would have been stuck with micro-USB unless the legislation changed and we wouldn't have had Apple or others able to innovate.

    Voluntary standardisation is a good thing, when the standard is evolved, but the ability to innovate and diverge from the standard if you have something new to offer should always be there.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 10,754

    Paging @Cyclefree

    Exclusive: Concerns have been raised at the top of government over the legality of contentious Northern Ireland Protocol legislation, which ministers are set to bring forward in the next few days.

    Correspondence seen by PoliticsHome has cast doubt over the government's argument that its plan to override parts of the post-Brexit treaty without an agreement with the European Union would not breach international law.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/northern-ireland-protocol-bill-legality

    Genuine question: what is this “international law”?

    There are certain specific treaty courts, etc (like WTO) and the Netherlands war crime one (ICJ?) but what is the law saying a government can’t do something like this and who made it binding on us?

    (Nb for avoidance of doubt this is not saying they should do this)
    It is only wiki but here you are:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law#:~:text=International law, also known as,recognized as binding between nations.

    Generally it is accepted that countries that have democratic and politically advanced administrations do not ignore international law, and certainly do not break the conventions therein. The UK is normally an upholder of International Law
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 2,918
    edited June 7
    In the utterly pointless game of time served as PM, if Boris can avoid going to the palace in the next 2 and a half hours he is past Brown and if he can make Friday he slithers by Arthur Wellesley. Then its a long long 4 weeks to peace in our time man before a further 4 weeks of agony to surpass Tess herself.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 4,487
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Shock while out on my evening constitutional.

    Before I went on my hols, petrol was 162.9p per litre at my local Tesco's. Last Sunday, it was 171.9p and tonight it's 180.9p per litre. At this rate, the £2 litre is probably 10 days away.

    And yet...

    The drivers were still queueing up to fill up - it's as though the dependency is such we will pay anything to keep the show (or the car) on the road. The demand still seems very strong but are we like Wile E Coyote and have gone over the cliff and yet to look down?

    I can't believe this won't have an impact - it is having an impact - 2 litres of milk now £1.29 at the aforementioned Tesco's. I suppose inevitably those who have less in terms of disposable income will fell it hardest, quickest and longest.

    A collapse in demand should send the oil price back down - it did in 2008 and 2020 (very different scenarios of course).

    West Texas Intermediate back above $120 a barrel.

    Were all the drivers thanking Sunak for that "biggest ever cut in fuel duty" of 5p just a few weeks ago? It's almost as if it's got lost in the post and was a waste of time.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,722

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Shock while out on my evening constitutional.

    Before I went on my hols, petrol was 162.9p per litre at my local Tesco's. Last Sunday, it was 171.9p and tonight it's 180.9p per litre. At this rate, the £2 litre is probably 10 days away.

    And yet...

    The drivers were still queueing up to fill up - it's as though the dependency is such we will pay anything to keep the show (or the car) on the road. The demand still seems very strong but are we like Wile E Coyote and have gone over the cliff and yet to look down?

    I can't believe this won't have an impact - it is having an impact - 2 litres of milk now £1.29 at the aforementioned Tesco's. I suppose inevitably those who have less in terms of disposable income will fell it hardest, quickest and longest.

    A collapse in demand should send the oil price back down - it did in 2008 and 2020 (very different scenarios of course).

    West Texas Intermediate back above $120 a barrel.

    Were all the drivers thanking Sunak for that "biggest ever cut in fuel duty" of 5p just a few weeks ago? It's almost as if it's got lost in the post and was a waste of time.
    Got £1.66 a litre this evening.

    Still a 67% increase in two years.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,038
    1-1
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 8,370
    Harry Kane!
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,969

    In the utterly pointless game of time served as PM, if Boris can avoid going to the palace in the next 2 and a half hours he is past Brown and if he can make Friday he slithers by Arthur Wellesley. Then its a long long 4 weeks to peace in our time man before a further 4 weeks of agony to surpass Tess herself.

    So basically it's only sudden death that stops him.
    I'll have a think about how I'd feel about that.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,614

    Harry Kane!

    Football's coming home! :lol:
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 2,918
    Farooq said:

    In the utterly pointless game of time served as PM, if Boris can avoid going to the palace in the next 2 and a half hours he is past Brown and if he can make Friday he slithers by Arthur Wellesley. Then its a long long 4 weeks to peace in our time man before a further 4 weeks of agony to surpass Tess herself.

    So basically it's only sudden death that stops him.
    I'll have a think about how I'd feel about that.
    We are down to unknown unknowns i'm afraid
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,038
    Never had a doubt :lol:
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,969

    Farooq said:

    In the utterly pointless game of time served as PM, if Boris can avoid going to the palace in the next 2 and a half hours he is past Brown and if he can make Friday he slithers by Arthur Wellesley. Then its a long long 4 weeks to peace in our time man before a further 4 weeks of agony to surpass Tess herself.

    So basically it's only sudden death that stops him.
    I'll have a think about how I'd feel about that.
    We are down to unknown unknowns i'm afraid
    Hell, oblivion, or reincarnation as one of Leon's socks. Those are pretty much the only possibilities for him.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,326
    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Someone said that we should be glad that the EU didn't force phone charger standardisation in the past otherwise we would be stuck with micro-USB.

    But they did force standardisation on micro-USB!

    The European Comission pushing it is why we stopped having a million different propriety connectors, it wasnt the market magicly solving anything

    https://www.engadget.com/2010-12-29-european-standardization-bodies-formalize-micro-usb-cellphone-ch.html

    GSMA, ITU, and CTIA were all ahead of the EU on that. So it wasn't the EU alone, the whole industry worldwide was pushing for a common charger.

    It has to be said though that such bodies have frequently proposed standardising things that turned out to be utter garbage. There's no panacea for solving this issue of promoting things that are good to become common.

    I think generally standards bodies are good, but I'd be very wary of mandating standards if there are no reasonable exceptions to allow valid differences, rather than say differences to promote market control.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 1,698

    Looks like Boris Johnson is going to outrival the Night of the Long Knives for cabinet sacking by a factor of 3:1.

    Fun fact SuperMac sacked a third of his cabinet in one go.

    Boris Johnson warns ministers to raise their game or face the sack. Colleagues say he’s not minded towards an immediate reshuffle.

    “Boris knows people have to perform and some are not. He will assess performance in the cold hard light of day.”


    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1534258100567523328

    And likely add to the 148?

    Pretty risky.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,722
    Farooq said:

    In the utterly pointless game of time served as PM, if Boris can avoid going to the palace in the next 2 and a half hours he is past Brown and if he can make Friday he slithers by Arthur Wellesley. Then its a long long 4 weeks to peace in our time man before a further 4 weeks of agony to surpass Tess herself.

    So basically it's only sudden death that stops him.
    I'll have a think about how I'd feel about that.
    Hmm.

    Not keen on him dying suddenly.

    Something lingering with boiling oil in it would be more appropriate.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,969
    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    In the utterly pointless game of time served as PM, if Boris can avoid going to the palace in the next 2 and a half hours he is past Brown and if he can make Friday he slithers by Arthur Wellesley. Then its a long long 4 weeks to peace in our time man before a further 4 weeks of agony to surpass Tess herself.

    So basically it's only sudden death that stops him.
    I'll have a think about how I'd feel about that.
    Hmm.

    Not keen on him dying suddenly.

    Something lingering with boiling oil in it would be more appropriate.
    Keep the scissors away from Carrie
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 4,537
    glw said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Someone said that we should be glad that the EU didn't force phone charger standardisation in the past otherwise we would be stuck with micro-USB.

    But they did force standardisation on micro-USB!

    The European Comission pushing it is why we stopped having a million different propriety connectors, it wasnt the market magicly solving anything

    https://www.engadget.com/2010-12-29-european-standardization-bodies-formalize-micro-usb-cellphone-ch.html

    GSMA, ITU, and CTIA were all ahead of the EU on that. So it wasn't the EU alone, the whole industry worldwide was pushing for a common charger.

    It has to be said though that such bodies have frequently proposed standardising things that turned out to be utter garbage. There's no panacea for solving this issue of promoting things that are good to become common.

    I think generally standards bodies are good, but I'd be very wary of mandating standards if there are no reasonable exceptions to allow valid differences, rather than say differences to promote market control.
    Precisely and the OMTP were also ahead of the EU too. I think Alistair has jumped the shark on that one, the EU did the right thing then because it followed the trend and encouraged what was already happening after the fact but left it to choice which is the reasonable thing to do, rather than going down the route of compulsion.

    Now years later after the fact they're going down the route of compulsion, that is the wrong answer, and the wrong time. What happens next time when people come up with a new solution that is better, do they just say innovation is verboten in Europe?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 22,366

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Someone said that we should be glad that the EU didn't force phone charger standardisation in the past otherwise we would be stuck with micro-USB.

    But they did force standardisation on micro-USB!

    The European Comission pushing it is why we stopped having a million different propriety connectors, it wasnt the market magicly solving anything

    https://www.engadget.com/2010-12-29-european-standardization-bodies-formalize-micro-usb-cellphone-ch.html

    No they didn't, the companies named voluntarily chose to sign up to the micro USB standard, they weren't legislated to do so. Notably Apple didn't which is why they still have the lightning connection.

    If it were standardised we would have been stuck with micro-USB unless the legislation changed and we wouldn't have had Apple or others able to innovate.

    Voluntary standardisation is a good thing, when the standard is evolved, but the ability to innovate and diverge from the standard if you have something new to offer should always be there.
    "Voluntarily", definitely no arm twisting involved at all.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 2,918
    Penny has a piece in the Telegraph. Unity, Brexit, all the Talents.
    On pre manouvere manouveres
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Shock while out on my evening constitutional.

    Before I went on my hols, petrol was 162.9p per litre at my local Tesco's. Last Sunday, it was 171.9p and tonight it's 180.9p per litre. At this rate, the £2 litre is probably 10 days away.

    And yet...

    The drivers were still queueing up to fill up - it's as though the dependency is such we will pay anything to keep the show (or the car) on the road. The demand still seems very strong but are we like Wile E Coyote and have gone over the cliff and yet to look down?

    I can't believe this won't have an impact - it is having an impact - 2 litres of milk now £1.29 at the aforementioned Tesco's. I suppose inevitably those who have less in terms of disposable income will fell it hardest, quickest and longest.

    A collapse in demand should send the oil price back down - it did in 2008 and 2020 (very different scenarios of course).

    West Texas Intermediate back above $120 a barrel.

    What’s your take on French elections Stodge?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,313

    Penny has a piece in the Telegraph. Unity, Brexit, all the Talents.
    On pre manouvere manouveres

    Excellent! There is still hope.....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 17,019
    "Ash Routh 🏳️‍⚧️
    @AshRouth

    Yorkshire Party demonstrating their top notch commitment to being a serious poltical party by.. *checks notes*
    Criticising me for supporting Yorkshire devolution and for the football team I support.
    Couldn't make it up.

    7:21 pm · 7 Jun 2022"

    https://twitter.com/AshRouth/status/1534239080095141892
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 4,537
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Someone said that we should be glad that the EU didn't force phone charger standardisation in the past otherwise we would be stuck with micro-USB.

    But they did force standardisation on micro-USB!

    The European Comission pushing it is why we stopped having a million different propriety connectors, it wasnt the market magicly solving anything

    https://www.engadget.com/2010-12-29-european-standardization-bodies-formalize-micro-usb-cellphone-ch.html

    No they didn't, the companies named voluntarily chose to sign up to the micro USB standard, they weren't legislated to do so. Notably Apple didn't which is why they still have the lightning connection.

    If it were standardised we would have been stuck with micro-USB unless the legislation changed and we wouldn't have had Apple or others able to innovate.

    Voluntary standardisation is a good thing, when the standard is evolved, but the ability to innovate and diverge from the standard if you have something new to offer should always be there.
    "Voluntarily", definitely no arm twisting involved at all.
    Yes voluntarily. Most of the major industry players at the time then where involved in groups like the OMTP (Huawai, Motorola, Nokia, Samsung and Sony Ericsson) and other groups that were seeking harmonisation as a goal. They endorsed Micro USB as the standard two years before the EU did.

    Encouraging it is a good thing, but compulsion is an entirely different matter.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    Whether I am or not is immaterial, and of no consequence. What is more interesting is your obsession with proving your masculinity and your obvious horror at my suggestion that it might be a psychological consequence of your repressed homoerotic fantasies. Just as a further point of interest, how tall are you? About 5'7 perhaps? (Don't worry I wouldn't possibly dream of asking you about whether you are smaller than average in the trouser department)
    Measured in British inches by the way. 🇬🇧
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,466

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    Whether I am or not is immaterial, and of no consequence. What is more interesting is your obsession with proving your masculinity and your obvious horror at my suggestion that it might be a psychological consequence of your repressed homoerotic fantasies. Just as a further point of interest, how tall are you? About 5'7 perhaps? (Don't worry I wouldn't possibly dream of asking you about whether you are smaller than average in the trouser department)
    If he is 1.702m tall then he's going to be shorter than average in the trouser dept, anyway. Unless he looks very odd.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 2,918

    Penny has a piece in the Telegraph. Unity, Brexit, all the Talents.
    On pre manouvere manouveres

    Excellent! There is still hope.....
    It is confirmation she is a runner and rider certainly
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,313

    In the utterly pointless game of time served as PM, if Boris can avoid going to the palace in the next 2 and a half hours he is past Brown and if he can make Friday he slithers by Arthur Wellesley. Then its a long long 4 weeks to peace in our time man before a further 4 weeks of agony to surpass Tess herself.

    The only chance Boris ever has of being remembered as middle order.....
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 1,913

    Paging @Cyclefree

    Exclusive: Concerns have been raised at the top of government over the legality of contentious Northern Ireland Protocol legislation, which ministers are set to bring forward in the next few days.

    Correspondence seen by PoliticsHome has cast doubt over the government's argument that its plan to override parts of the post-Brexit treaty without an agreement with the European Union would not breach international law.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/northern-ireland-protocol-bill-legality

    Genuine question: what is this “international law”?

    There are certain specific treaty courts, etc (like WTO) and the Netherlands war crime one (ICJ?) but what is the law saying a government can’t do something like this and who made it binding on us?

    (Nb for avoidance of doubt this is not saying they should do this)
    It is only wiki but here you are:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law#:~:text=International law, also known as,recognized as binding between nations.

    Generally it is accepted that countries that have democratic and politically advanced administrations do not ignore international law, and certainly do not break the conventions therein. The UK is normally an upholder of International Law
    So conventions not law. Basically calling it a “breach of international law” is misleading to the non technical expert because there is no enforcement mechanism or penalty for doing so
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,114

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    Given where the conversation got to on the last thread we are almost at the "your mum" stage and it might even further debase to "your dad".
    Yeah. Give over, guys.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 4,537

    Paging @Cyclefree

    Exclusive: Concerns have been raised at the top of government over the legality of contentious Northern Ireland Protocol legislation, which ministers are set to bring forward in the next few days.

    Correspondence seen by PoliticsHome has cast doubt over the government's argument that its plan to override parts of the post-Brexit treaty without an agreement with the European Union would not breach international law.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/northern-ireland-protocol-bill-legality

    Genuine question: what is this “international law”?

    There are certain specific treaty courts, etc (like WTO) and the Netherlands war crime one (ICJ?) but what is the law saying a government can’t do something like this and who made it binding on us?

    (Nb for avoidance of doubt this is not saying they should do this)
    It is only wiki but here you are:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law#:~:text=International law, also known as,recognized as binding between nations.

    Generally it is accepted that countries that have democratic and politically advanced administrations do not ignore international law, and certainly do not break the conventions therein. The UK is normally an upholder of International Law
    So conventions not law. Basically calling it a “breach of international law” is misleading to the non technical expert because there is no enforcement mechanism or penalty for doing so
    Its more what you call guidelines than actual rules.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,466
    edited June 7

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    Whether I am or not is immaterial, and of no consequence. What is more interesting is your obsession with proving your masculinity and your obvious horror at my suggestion that it might be a psychological consequence of your repressed homoerotic fantasies. Just as a further point of interest, how tall are you? About 5'7 perhaps? (Don't worry I wouldn't possibly dream of asking you about whether you are smaller than average in the trouser department)
    Measured in British inches by the way. 🇬🇧
    Which are defined under the metric system, and therefore 2.54 x 10 to the minus 2 times the length of the path travelled by light in a vacuum in 1/299 792 458 of a second.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,969

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    Whether I am or not is immaterial, and of no consequence. What is more interesting is your obsession with proving your masculinity and your obvious horror at my suggestion that it might be a psychological consequence of your repressed homoerotic fantasies. Just as a further point of interest, how tall are you? About 5'7 perhaps? (Don't worry I wouldn't possibly dream of asking you about whether you are smaller than average in the trouser department)
    Measured in British inches by the way. 🇬🇧
    Inches precede Britain, and the UK. They are first attested in a Kentish law code.

    Kent was then defeated and absorbed into Wessex, and we can't be 100% certain is wasn't the fault of the inch...
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,375
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    Whether I am or not is immaterial, and of no consequence. What is more interesting is your obsession with proving your masculinity and your obvious horror at my suggestion that it might be a psychological consequence of your repressed homoerotic fantasies. Just as a further point of interest, how tall are you? About 5'7 perhaps? (Don't worry I wouldn't possibly dream of asking you about whether you are smaller than average in the trouser department)
    Measured in British inches by the way. 🇬🇧
    Which are defined under the metric system, and therefore 2.54 x 10 to the minus 2 times the length of the path travelled by light in a vacuum in 1/299 792 458 of a second.
    omg you're quick, I was going to correct you.

    :wink:
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,073
    Tory rebels vow to continue bid to oust Boris Johnson. One tells me: "This isn't going to stop until he's gone because none of us have changed our minds.” https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-rebels-vow-continue-bid-27172548

    Others predict the PM will be the master of his own demise. One tells me: “The one person who brings down Boris is in fact Boris. We stumble on from this f***-up to the next.”

    Others don’t think a policy blitz is the solution. “We're struggling for one reason - the public has lost faith in Boris Johnson.
    They've got their heads in the sand if they think we'll be able to get back on track with him at the helm."
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,777

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    Given where the conversation got to on the last thread we are almost at the "your mum" stage and it might even further debase to "your dad".
    History Today, tech version:

    See that woman over there using Firewire? That's your mum, that is ...
    Well, see that woman with the Betamax recorder? that's your mum, that is.
    How about that woman handling an eight-inch floppy? That's your mum, that is...

    ;)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,617

    Penny has a piece in the Telegraph. Unity, Brexit, all the Talents.
    On pre manouvere manouveres

    Also a headline piece saying Johnson's allies want Hunt to tie himself to the dead albatross by becoming CoE in Johnson's next reshuffle.

    Jeez.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,466

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    Whether I am or not is immaterial, and of no consequence. What is more interesting is your obsession with proving your masculinity and your obvious horror at my suggestion that it might be a psychological consequence of your repressed homoerotic fantasies. Just as a further point of interest, how tall are you? About 5'7 perhaps? (Don't worry I wouldn't possibly dream of asking you about whether you are smaller than average in the trouser department)
    Measured in British inches by the way. 🇬🇧
    Which are defined under the metric system, and therefore 2.54 x 10 to the minus 2 times the length of the path travelled by light in a vacuum in 1/299 792 458 of a second.
    omg you're quick, I was going to correct you.

    :wink:
    Yes, I can get a bit wobbly about powers of ten. I still have to sit and think how many mm of rain will fill my 210 litre water barrel off my 5 x 3m shed. But it's MUCH quicker than converting cubic inches to hogsheads mentally ...
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,009

    Looks like Boris Johnson is going to outrival the Night of the Long Knives for cabinet sacking by a factor of 3:1.

    Fun fact SuperMac sacked a third of his cabinet in one go.

    Boris Johnson warns ministers to raise their game or face the sack. Colleagues say he’s not minded towards an immediate reshuffle.

    “Boris knows people have to perform and some are not. He will assess performance in the cold hard light of day.”


    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1534258100567523328

    And likely add to the 148?

    Pretty risky.
    Besides, if the intention is to sack unpopular, badly performing ministers, there's one really prominent candidate for the chop.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 1,913
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    Whether I am or not is immaterial, and of no consequence. What is more interesting is your obsession with proving your masculinity and your obvious horror at my suggestion that it might be a psychological consequence of your repressed homoerotic fantasies. Just as a further point of interest, how tall are you? About 5'7 perhaps? (Don't worry I wouldn't possibly dream of asking you about whether you are smaller than average in the trouser department)
    Measured in British inches by the way. 🇬🇧
    Inches precede Britain, and the UK. They are first attested in a Kentish law code.

    Kent was then defeated and absorbed into Wessex, and we can't be 100% certain is wasn't the fault of the inch...
    Wessex half inched their land?
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 19,419
    I’m getting Gordon Brown vibes
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 1,913

    I’m getting Gordon Brown vibes

    You might want to see a doctor about that
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,003
    I find it fascinating Johnson seems to be acting like he’s won a landslide confidence vote. Has anyone told him?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,777

    I’m getting Gordon Brown vibes

    Did you accidentally sit on a Nokia?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 32,311

    I’m getting Gordon Brown vibes

    You might want to see a doctor about that
    I would recommend an urgent exorcism.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,375
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    Whether I am or not is immaterial, and of no consequence. What is more interesting is your obsession with proving your masculinity and your obvious horror at my suggestion that it might be a psychological consequence of your repressed homoerotic fantasies. Just as a further point of interest, how tall are you? About 5'7 perhaps? (Don't worry I wouldn't possibly dream of asking you about whether you are smaller than average in the trouser department)
    Measured in British inches by the way. 🇬🇧
    Which are defined under the metric system, and therefore 2.54 x 10 to the minus 2 times the length of the path travelled by light in a vacuum in 1/299 792 458 of a second.
    omg you're quick, I was going to correct you.

    :wink:
    Yes, I can get a bit wobbly about powers of ten. I still have to sit and think how many mm of rain will fill my 210 litre water barrel off my 5 x 3m shed. But it's MUCH quicker than converting cubic inches to hogsheads mentally ...
    I agree. I tutor my grandson over zoom in science/maths and he is always mixing up centi and milli and when to use them. Don't ask about kilo and Mega either! I used to like teaching units and measurements in the A level physics course.

    By the by, I notice that zoom have limited their time to 40mins now the pandemic is over. A bit of a pain, but the cost of the upgrade is well beyond a mum and dad's pocket now.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 17,019
    edited June 7
    Funny if Johnson is still PM in 10 years from now. 😊
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,313

    Penny has a piece in the Telegraph. Unity, Brexit, all the Talents.
    On pre manouvere manouveres

    Also a headline piece saying Johnson's allies want Hunt to tie himself to the dead albatross by becoming CoE in Johnson's next reshuffle.

    Jeez.

    Who the fuck is left advising Boris? Peppa Pig?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,777

    I find it fascinating Johnson seems to be acting like he’s won a landslide confidence vote. Has anyone told him?

    He's a dead man walking. If he were anyone else, I'd say he'd be out within a year. But he has an incredible ability to confound expectations. Sadly.

    And given my expectation is that he'll last longer than a year, expect him to be out in the next few days...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,617
    Andy_JS said:

    Funny if Johnson is still PM in 10 years from now.

    And possible.

    But only if the public forgive him for parties whilst they could not bury the dead.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 17,893
    Andy_JS said:

    Funny if Johnson is still PM in 10 years from now. 😊

    PM of a smouldering wasteland.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,777

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    Whether I am or not is immaterial, and of no consequence. What is more interesting is your obsession with proving your masculinity and your obvious horror at my suggestion that it might be a psychological consequence of your repressed homoerotic fantasies. Just as a further point of interest, how tall are you? About 5'7 perhaps? (Don't worry I wouldn't possibly dream of asking you about whether you are smaller than average in the trouser department)
    Measured in British inches by the way. 🇬🇧
    Which are defined under the metric system, and therefore 2.54 x 10 to the minus 2 times the length of the path travelled by light in a vacuum in 1/299 792 458 of a second.
    omg you're quick, I was going to correct you.

    :wink:
    Yes, I can get a bit wobbly about powers of ten. I still have to sit and think how many mm of rain will fill my 210 litre water barrel off my 5 x 3m shed. But it's MUCH quicker than converting cubic inches to hogsheads mentally ...
    I agree. I tutor my grandson over zoom in science/maths and he is always mixing up centi and milli and when to use them. Don't ask about kilo and Mega either! I used to like teaching units and measurements in the A level physics course.

    By the by, I notice that zoom have limited their time to 40mins now the pandemic is over. A bit of a pain, but the cost of the upgrade is well beyond a mum and dad's pocket now.
    I hadn't heard that. How much does it cost, and who pays (this fits in with the WfH conversations.)
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,003

    Penny has a piece in the Telegraph. Unity, Brexit, all the Talents.
    On pre manouvere manouveres

    Also a headline piece saying Johnson's allies want Hunt to tie himself to the dead albatross by becoming CoE in Johnson's next reshuffle.

    Jeez.

    Who the fuck is left advising Boris? Peppa Pig?
    There seems be absolutely 0 idea about what to do next. No. 10 has just become an odd extension of Johnson’s ego
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 17,019

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    Whether I am or not is immaterial, and of no consequence. What is more interesting is your obsession with proving your masculinity and your obvious horror at my suggestion that it might be a psychological consequence of your repressed homoerotic fantasies. Just as a further point of interest, how tall are you? About 5'7 perhaps? (Don't worry I wouldn't possibly dream of asking you about whether you are smaller than average in the trouser department)
    There's nothing wrong with being 5'7.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,761
    Pro_Rata said:

    Power of patronage. Indeed.

    I knew I'd predicted at the very high end of the possible range for No Confidence votes, I felt with a secret ballot and a forward view of Boris's likely course from here, a decent number of the payroll might turn also feeling they could do as well under someone else.

    The VONC, it turned out, was more ordinary than that - the payroll broadly stayed in line (no more than a couple of dozen vonced him?), but the massive size of the payroll, 178, shocked me (I think there are maximum numbers of some roles).

    So, things get iffier, increase the (informal) payroll to 250, and ride future voncs. Job done?

    And I still twitch that Boris might go into GE 24 with a majority of 120+ by jettisoning Scotland. Time is tight to bounce indy so quickly, and I think not, COVID and tough talk may have put paid to it, but I'm still twitchy. And England would get a separation as half baked as the NIP.

    So, the Yes side would comprise:
    SNP
    Greens
    Alba
    STUC
    various Yes groups
    Half the English Conservative Party
    A third of Scottish Labour

    The No side would comprise:
    Two thirds of Scottish Labour
    The Scottish Tories
    The SLDs
    Half the English Conservative Party
    Reform
    UKIP
    Orange Lodge
    Ulster Unionists
    Various far-right groups

    Place your bets folks!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,777

    Penny has a piece in the Telegraph. Unity, Brexit, all the Talents.
    On pre manouvere manouveres

    Also a headline piece saying Johnson's allies want Hunt to tie himself to the dead albatross by becoming CoE in Johnson's next reshuffle.

    Jeez.

    Who the fuck is left advising Boris? Peppa Pig?
    There seems be absolutely 0 idea about what to do next. No. 10 has just become an odd extension of Johnson’s ego
    In which case No. 10 must have enveloped all of central London.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 75,434

    Andy_JS said:

    Funny if Johnson is still PM in 10 years from now.

    And possible.

    But only if the public forgive him for parties whilst they could not bury the dead.

    10 years would be a stretch even without his recent troubles. Making 10 years total in a democratic system like ours is not easy, let alone 13 years. He's surprised me before, but even if he wins the next GE I cannot see him getting yet another go.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 75,434
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    So the big revelation of the evening is that @Nigel_Foremain is gay

    Whether I am or not is immaterial, and of no consequence. What is more interesting is your obsession with proving your masculinity and your obvious horror at my suggestion that it might be a psychological consequence of your repressed homoerotic fantasies. Just as a further point of interest, how tall are you? About 5'7 perhaps? (Don't worry I wouldn't possibly dream of asking you about whether you are smaller than average in the trouser department)
    There's nothing wrong with being 5'7.
    All the great people are 5'7.

    Lionel Messi, Tom Cruise, Jeff Bezos, me, Vladimir Putin...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,617

    I find it fascinating Johnson seems to be acting like he’s won a landslide confidence vote. Has anyone told him?

    Who is speaking truth in the bunker?

    Not the most inexperienced Cabinet Secretary in living memory. Nor the various aides who have been parachuted in by Crosby. Nor literally the worst cabinet of no marks and hopeless sycophants since records began.

    At least Cummings seemed able to call him a deluded twat to his face.

    I suppose his ex wife might call.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,821

    Looks like Boris Johnson is going to outrival the Night of the Long Knives for cabinet sacking by a factor of 3:1.

    Fun fact SuperMac sacked a third of his cabinet in one go.

    Boris Johnson warns ministers to raise their game or face the sack. Colleagues say he’s not minded towards an immediate reshuffle.

    “Boris knows people have to perform and some are not. He will assess performance in the cold hard light of day.”


    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1534258100567523328

    Old BBC documentary on Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEwpKCXirC8
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,957
    edited June 7
    Andy_JS said:

    Funny if Johnson is still PM in 10 years from now. 😊

    Quite the opposite.

    You may be amused at this horrendous little (5ft 8 in his socks) man running our great nation into the ground, but the rest of us are certainly not laughing.
This discussion has been closed.