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Putting Putin’s Ukraine casualties into context – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,628
edited March 2022 in General
Putting Putin’s Ukraine casualties into context – politicalbetting.com

Chart of the Day: Russia has lost more troops in a month in Ukraine than the US lost in a decade in Iraq. https://t.co/5Nk24AC4zy pic.twitter.com/vcEc0d5IV9

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Comments

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Rather bloodthirsty chart for the Staggers
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,405
    edited March 2022
    Second.
    Like Vlad hopefully.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,403
    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    The 7000 figure was the US estimate wasn't it? But that was 3 or 4 days ago.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,403
    IshmaelZ said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
    Ukraine estimates 12,000

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/10/ukraine-casualties-deaths-military-civilian-russian-invasion/
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    Just to add I'd be surprised if the Russians know the figures themselves. If we take the US figure at face value so maybe 8000 now, that will be thousands more badly wounded or damaged for life.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,644
    IshmaelZ said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
    7,001 is much higher than 7,000?

    Do you work for the LDs, by any chance?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,029
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
    Ukraine estimates 12,000

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/10/ukraine-casualties-deaths-military-civilian-russian-invasion/
    There's also the question of whether to include "private military contractors".
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,839
    edited March 2022
    Careless...

    #Ukraine: We managed to identify this bizarre "container", captured today by the UA forces near #Kyiv. It is likely to be the command post of one of the most potent Russian EW system - 1RL257 Krasukha-4, used to suppress AWACS radars & radar reconnaissance satellites.

    https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1506306740421341193?s=20&t=gJwOxp8LtQ6pXsTW7ijGuA
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,258
    Even a much lower estimate would still be remarkably high losses for modern states at war in recent decades. If the higher estimates are nearer the truth it is near catastrophic for the Russians, so we wouldn't be so fortunate.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,441
    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
    7,001 is much higher than 7,000?

    Do you work for the LDs, by any chance?
    "Putin: Can't win here!"

    Well, we can hope.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,727
    FrankBooth said:

    Just to add I'd be surprised if the Russians know the figures themselves. If we take the US figure at face value so maybe 8000 now, that will be thousands more badly wounded or damaged for life.

    Their communications seem to be about as bad as their logistics, so it would seem unlikely that they have the most accurate figures for battlefield casualties.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
    7,001 is much higher than 7,000?

    Do you work for the LDs, by any chance?
    How is asking a question bullying?
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Big G is a horrible person. Bully and a coward.

    Shame on you.

    Maybe engage with the debate

    Do you condemn France action over Renault ?

    Simple question - no bullying or coward involved
    You are bullying Horse now into agreeing with your narrative.

    Now I really am off. I'm gone, I'm dust!
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Very easily. Have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no? yes or no? YES OR NO?

    And the first and worst bully I met on my first day at prep school kicked off with asking whether I ever let a little bit of wee out in bed?

    So your question, ironically, establishes exactly what it seeks to disprove.

    do you feel a bit of a tit now? (See what I did there?)
    Absolutely spot on. Bullies should be called out for what they are.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,029
    FrankBooth said:

    The 7000 figure was the US estimate wasn't it? But that was 3 or 4 days ago.

    I think we can reasonably assume that the Pravda story was accurate, if only because it matches data on destruction of Russian vehicles. That would peg Russian deaths as close to 10k.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    Sunak has been an absolute disaster as Chancellor the more time has gone on.

    I knew it when he did the useless "Eat Out To Help Out".

    He is going one way and that is down.

    So who will save the Tories now? How do they get a majority?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,644
    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
    7,001 is much higher than 7,000?

    Do you work for the LDs, by any chance?
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Didn't catch your reply on the previous thread, sorry. That isn't what was said on the previous thread. It was a question, asked once. That's not bullying, no matter how much the other person may hate the person asking it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,323
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Sunak has been an absolute disaster as Chancellor the more time has gone on.

    I knew it when he did the useless "Eat Out To Help Out".

    He is going one way and that is down.

    So who will save the Tories now? How do they get a majority?

    I think Mordaunt potentially.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,315
    Helena Wilkinson
    @BBCHelena
    Wednesday’s Daily Telegraph: Ukrainians regain key territory in fightback #tomorrowspaperstoday

    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1506390043446943754


    Russian warship entire operation, go fuck yerself.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,315
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Sunak has been an absolute disaster as Chancellor the more time has gone on.

    I knew it when he did the useless "Eat Out To Help Out".

    He is going one way and that is down.

    So who will save the Tories now? How do they get a majority?

    The voters of middle england?
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    turbotubbs said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Big G is a horrible person. Bully and a coward.

    Shame on you.

    Maybe engage with the debate

    Do you condemn France action over Renault ?

    Simple question - no bullying or coward involved
    You are bullying Horse now into agreeing with your narrative.

    Now I really am off. I'm gone, I'm dust!
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Very easily. Have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no? yes or no? YES OR NO?

    And the first and worst bully I met on my first day at prep school kicked off with asking whether I ever let a little bit of wee out in bed?

    So your question, ironically, establishes exactly what it seeks to disprove.

    do you feel a bit of a tit now? (See what I did there?)
    Absolutely spot on. Bullies should be called out for what they are.
    This is a chat room, anonymous for the most part. I think you have a thing about BigG, and it provokes you to ‘call out’ stuff. We all have different view points.
    NPXMP has views I strongly disagree with on many things, but he is unfailingly polite. He makes this site better by his presence. I believe we would all do well to try to do the same. Are you trying to cancel BigG? Why not just disagree, and state your reasons?
    Big G never apologised for insulting and degrading my Grandmother who sadly passed away and has never apologised for his condescending and rude manner.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,610
    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
    7,001 is much higher than 7,000?

    Do you work for the LDs, by any chance?
    Ukraine winning here!

    Only Ukraine can beat...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
    7,001 is much higher than 7,000?

    Do you work for the LDs, by any chance?
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Will you please stop bullying @RobD
    What are you asking of me?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,315
    Liberals could make that bar chart a little more blunt I suspect.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Sunak has been an absolute disaster as Chancellor the more time has gone on.

    I knew it when he did the useless "Eat Out To Help Out".

    He is going one way and that is down.

    So who will save the Tories now? How do they get a majority?

    Saying "Eat Out To Help Out" and then going down, is surely walking it the way he talks it?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,644
    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
    7,001 is much higher than 7,000?

    Do you work for the LDs, by any chance?
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Will you please stop bullying @RobD
    What are you asking of me?
    He probably missed a comma.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,258
    rottenborough said:

    Helena Wilkinson
    @BBCHelena
    Wednesday’s Daily Telegraph: Ukrainians regain key territory in fightback #tomorrowspaperstoday

    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1506390043446943754


    Russian warship entire operation, go fuck yerself.

    It seems incredible to me that even with reported logistics problems with the initial invasion, made worse by a military and political elite which cannot tell the truth to the Tsar, that the Russians could not get their shit together and bring their greater resources to bear in a way that even a spirited and NATO supplied Ukraine could not beat back without things getting much worse before they get better. I very much hope they cannot, however, and that any counter attacks do not prove false dawns.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    IshmaelZ said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Sunak has been an absolute disaster as Chancellor the more time has gone on.

    I knew it when he did the useless "Eat Out To Help Out".

    He is going one way and that is down.

    So who will save the Tories now? How do they get a majority?

    Saying "Eat Out To Help Out" and then going down, is surely walking it the way he talks it?
    Legend. You win the Internet today
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,315
    edited March 2022
    That Russian MP on BBC News who was a massive Vlad apologist looks like she just stepped out of Hitler's bunker to give an interview.

    80 years. Nothing changes.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,855
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    turbotubbs said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Big G is a horrible person. Bully and a coward.

    Shame on you.

    Maybe engage with the debate

    Do you condemn France action over Renault ?

    Simple question - no bullying or coward involved
    You are bullying Horse now into agreeing with your narrative.

    Now I really am off. I'm gone, I'm dust!
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Very easily. Have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no? yes or no? YES OR NO?

    And the first and worst bully I met on my first day at prep school kicked off with asking whether I ever let a little bit of wee out in bed?

    So your question, ironically, establishes exactly what it seeks to disprove.

    do you feel a bit of a tit now? (See what I did there?)
    Absolutely spot on. Bullies should be called out for what they are.
    This is a chat room, anonymous for the most part. I think you have a thing about BigG, and it provokes you to ‘call out’ stuff. We all have different view points.
    NPXMP has views I strongly disagree with on many things, but he is unfailingly polite. He makes this site better by his presence. I believe we would all do well to try to do the same. Are you trying to cancel BigG? Why not just disagree, and state your reasons?
    Big G never apologised for insulting and degrading my Grandmother who sadly passed away and has never apologised for his condescending and rude manner.
    Did he really insult and degrade her? Or did you misinterpret something he wrote? He doesn’t strike me as someone who would do that deliberately.
    Years ago, on a different forum I posted a comment about ‘Pakistan murdering England’ in the cricket, and someone got really het up, thinking I was talking about terrorism. It’s easy to misconstrue stuff posted online. Nuance often gets missed. Sarcasm fails frequently.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,258
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Sunak has been an absolute disaster as Chancellor the more time has gone on.

    I knew it when he did the useless "Eat Out To Help Out".

    He is going one way and that is down.

    So who will save the Tories now? How do they get a majority?

    The inertial weight of 2019 - it's a big majority to lose in just one parliamentary cycle.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,610
    I know its a pro-Ukranian source, but if this is even close to true then we either see mass Russian surrender or a breakout retreat. Total humiliation for the Russian army on the west side of Kyiv.

    https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1506256136504184834?t=alsE8wsalV-DDTXEbPEYFQ&s=19
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    turbotubbs said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    turbotubbs said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Big G is a horrible person. Bully and a coward.

    Shame on you.

    Maybe engage with the debate

    Do you condemn France action over Renault ?

    Simple question - no bullying or coward involved
    You are bullying Horse now into agreeing with your narrative.

    Now I really am off. I'm gone, I'm dust!
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Very easily. Have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no? yes or no? YES OR NO?

    And the first and worst bully I met on my first day at prep school kicked off with asking whether I ever let a little bit of wee out in bed?

    So your question, ironically, establishes exactly what it seeks to disprove.

    do you feel a bit of a tit now? (See what I did there?)
    Absolutely spot on. Bullies should be called out for what they are.
    This is a chat room, anonymous for the most part. I think you have a thing about BigG, and it provokes you to ‘call out’ stuff. We all have different view points.
    NPXMP has views I strongly disagree with on many things, but he is unfailingly polite. He makes this site better by his presence. I believe we would all do well to try to do the same. Are you trying to cancel BigG? Why not just disagree, and state your reasons?
    Big G never apologised for insulting and degrading my Grandmother who sadly passed away and has never apologised for his condescending and rude manner.
    Did he really insult and degrade her? Or did you misinterpret something he wrote? He doesn’t strike me as someone who would do that deliberately.
    Years ago, on a different forum I posted a comment about ‘Pakistan murdering England’ in the cricket, and someone got really het up, thinking I was talking about terrorism. It’s easy to misconstrue stuff posted online. Nuance often gets missed. Sarcasm fails frequently.
    No he really did.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,855
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    turbotubbs said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    turbotubbs said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Big G is a horrible person. Bully and a coward.

    Shame on you.

    Maybe engage with the debate

    Do you condemn France action over Renault ?

    Simple question - no bullying or coward involved
    You are bullying Horse now into agreeing with your narrative.

    Now I really am off. I'm gone, I'm dust!
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Very easily. Have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no? yes or no? YES OR NO?

    And the first and worst bully I met on my first day at prep school kicked off with asking whether I ever let a little bit of wee out in bed?

    So your question, ironically, establishes exactly what it seeks to disprove.

    do you feel a bit of a tit now? (See what I did there?)
    Absolutely spot on. Bullies should be called out for what they are.
    This is a chat room, anonymous for the most part. I think you have a thing about BigG, and it provokes you to ‘call out’ stuff. We all have different view points.
    NPXMP has views I strongly disagree with on many things, but he is unfailingly polite. He makes this site better by his presence. I believe we would all do well to try to do the same. Are you trying to cancel BigG? Why not just disagree, and state your reasons?
    Big G never apologised for insulting and degrading my Grandmother who sadly passed away and has never apologised for his condescending and rude manner.
    Did he really insult and degrade her? Or did you misinterpret something he wrote? He doesn’t strike me as someone who would do that deliberately.
    Years ago, on a different forum I posted a comment about ‘Pakistan murdering England’ in the cricket, and someone got really het up, thinking I was talking about terrorism. It’s easy to misconstrue stuff posted online. Nuance often gets missed. Sarcasm fails frequently.
    No he really did.
    What did he say? (Only if you are comfortable repeating).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,315
    Foxy said:

    I know its a pro-Ukranian source, but if this is even close to true then we either see mass Russian surrender or a breakout retreat. Total humiliation for the Russian army on the west side of Kyiv.

    https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1506256136504184834?t=alsE8wsalV-DDTXEbPEYFQ&s=19


    Illia Ponomarenko 🇺🇦
    @IAPonomarenko
    You know that things in Ukraine are getting back under control as more regions start selling booze again and regular Ukrainians resume shitstorming each other on Facebook over every single slightest thing possible.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,245
    rottenborough said:

    Helena Wilkinson
    @BBCHelena
    Wednesday’s Daily Telegraph: Ukrainians regain key territory in fightback #tomorrowspaperstoday

    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1506390043446943754


    Russian warship entire operation, go fuck yerself.

    The photo on the front page tells us why Bozo is keen to visit Ukraine.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,315
    kle4 said:

    rottenborough said:

    Helena Wilkinson
    @BBCHelena
    Wednesday’s Daily Telegraph: Ukrainians regain key territory in fightback #tomorrowspaperstoday

    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1506390043446943754


    Russian warship entire operation, go fuck yerself.

    It seems incredible to me that even with reported logistics problems with the initial invasion, made worse by a military and political elite which cannot tell the truth to the Tsar, that the Russians could not get their shit together and bring their greater resources to bear in a way that even a spirited and NATO supplied Ukraine could not beat back without things getting much worse before they get better. I very much hope they cannot, however, and that any counter attacks do not prove false dawns.
    Is it even remotely possible that the most senior military are throwing this one, in order to be shot of Vlad?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,855
    SandyRentool said:

    rottenborough said:

    Helena Wilkinson
    @BBCHelena
    Wednesday’s Daily Telegraph: Ukrainians regain key territory in fightback #tomorrowspaperstoday

    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1506390043446943754


    Russian warship entire operation, go fuck yerself.

    The photo on the front page tells us why Bozo is keen to visit Ukraine.
    He wants to meet River Song?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,546
    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
    7,001 is much higher than 7,000?

    Do you work for the LDs, by any chance?
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Didn't catch your reply on the previous thread, sorry. That isn't what was said on the previous thread. It was a question, asked once. That's not bullying, no matter how much the other person may hate the person asking it.
    I have to interject here. Your final statement bears no relation to reality. How dare you suggest I "hate" anyone.

    You clearly have a more general problem with me, as whatever point I make you try to make some contrary statement. Good for you, but don't make spurious claims on my behalf.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
    7,001 is much higher than 7,000?

    Do you work for the LDs, by any chance?
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Didn't catch your reply on the previous thread, sorry. That isn't what was said on the previous thread. It was a question, asked once. That's not bullying, no matter how much the other person may hate the person asking it.
    I have to interject here. Your final statement bears no relation to reality. How dare you suggest I "hate" anyone.

    You clearly have a more general problem with me, as whatever point I make you try to make some contrary statement. Good for you, but don't make spurious claims on my behalf.
    That is RobD's posting style, post something contrarian.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,644
    .
    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
    7,001 is much higher than 7,000?

    Do you work for the LDs, by any chance?
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Didn't catch your reply on the previous thread, sorry. That isn't what was said on the previous thread. It was a question, asked once. That's not bullying, no matter how much the other person may hate the person asking it.
    I have to interject here. Your final statement bears no relation to reality. How dare you suggest I "hate" anyone.

    You clearly have a more general problem with me, as whatever point I make you try to make some contrary statement. Good for you, but don't make spurious claims on my behalf.
    Sorry, you misunderstood. I wasn't referring to you.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,258
    edited March 2022
    Farooq said:

    Please... no comparison

    https://twitter.com/ukiswitheu/status/1506330243510022151

    I wonder if Zelensky had a word in one of his regular chats with Boris

    "Thanks for all the continued support, bro, but, dude, seriously, what was up with that?"

    "Cripes, Volodomyr, I just got caught up in the moment, you know? Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur"

    No, I don't know why Zelensky speaks like a Californian surfer either.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,566
    edited March 2022
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Sunak has been an absolute disaster as Chancellor the more time has gone on.

    I knew it when he did the useless "Eat Out To Help Out".

    He is going one way and that is down.

    So who will save the Tories now? How do they get a majority?

    As Starmer has the charisma of a damp rag. If he wins it will be more Tory and Boris unpopularity than enthusiasm for Starmer, it will not be Blair as the new Messiah and New Labour 1997.

    However only 1 party has won a majority after 10 years in power since 1918, the Tories in 1992, so the odds still favour a Labour government
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    RobD said:

    .

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
    7,001 is much higher than 7,000?

    Do you work for the LDs, by any chance?
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Didn't catch your reply on the previous thread, sorry. That isn't what was said on the previous thread. It was a question, asked once. That's not bullying, no matter how much the other person may hate the person asking it.
    I have to interject here. Your final statement bears no relation to reality. How dare you suggest I "hate" anyone.

    You clearly have a more general problem with me, as whatever point I make you try to make some contrary statement. Good for you, but don't make spurious claims on my behalf.
    Sorry, you misunderstood. I wasn't referring to you.
    I don't hate anyone, please stop saying I do.

    Do I think Big G is a bully and a coward, yes. Do I hate him, no.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,566
    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,414
    kle4 said:

    rottenborough said:

    Helena Wilkinson
    @BBCHelena
    Wednesday’s Daily Telegraph: Ukrainians regain key territory in fightback #tomorrowspaperstoday

    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1506390043446943754


    Russian warship entire operation, go fuck yerself.

    It seems incredible to me that even with reported logistics problems with the initial invasion, made worse by a military and political elite which cannot tell the truth to the Tsar, that the Russians could not get their shit together and bring their greater resources to bear in a way that even a spirited and NATO supplied Ukraine could not beat back without things getting much worse before they get better. I very much hope they cannot, however, and that any counter attacks do not prove false dawns.
    Logistics aren't fun and parades of thousands of trucks with high quality tires don't look cool when you are doing the Big Parades. Much easier to steal the money.... The Russians, quite probably don't have any more shit to get together.

    Adding more troops when you have no logistics just means a bigger mess. The Ancient Greeks knew this.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,644
    edited March 2022
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
    7,001 is much higher than 7,000?

    Do you work for the LDs, by any chance?
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Didn't catch your reply on the previous thread, sorry. That isn't what was said on the previous thread. It was a question, asked once. That's not bullying, no matter how much the other person may hate the person asking it.
    I have to interject here. Your final statement bears no relation to reality. How dare you suggest I "hate" anyone.

    You clearly have a more general problem with me, as whatever point I make you try to make some contrary statement. Good for you, but don't make spurious claims on my behalf.
    Sorry, you misunderstood. I wasn't referring to you.
    I don't hate anyone, please stop saying I do.

    Do I think Big G is a bully and a coward, yes. Do I hate him, no.
    Then I withdraw that. But the point stands in general, no matter where you (general, not specifically you) are on the scale from love to hate.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    We got a thousand points of light
    For the homeless man
    We got a kinder, gentler machine gun hand
    We got department stores and toilet paper
    Got Styrofoam boxes for the ozone layer
    Got a man of the people, says keep hope alive
    Got fuel to burn, got roads to drive
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,414
    rottenborough said:

    kle4 said:

    rottenborough said:

    Helena Wilkinson
    @BBCHelena
    Wednesday’s Daily Telegraph: Ukrainians regain key territory in fightback #tomorrowspaperstoday

    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1506390043446943754


    Russian warship entire operation, go fuck yerself.

    It seems incredible to me that even with reported logistics problems with the initial invasion, made worse by a military and political elite which cannot tell the truth to the Tsar, that the Russians could not get their shit together and bring their greater resources to bear in a way that even a spirited and NATO supplied Ukraine could not beat back without things getting much worse before they get better. I very much hope they cannot, however, and that any counter attacks do not prove false dawns.
    Is it even remotely possible that the most senior military are throwing this one, in order to be shot of Vlad?
    There are many military defeats in history where you have to wonder about the allegiance of the people involved.

    Read about the War of the Triple Alliance.....
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Are they going to enlist a mass army for the 'special military operation' in the Donbass?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,629
    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    High casualties whilst losing what you held? No military has the stomach for that.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,855
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    turbotubbs said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Big G is a horrible person. Bully and a coward.

    Shame on you.

    Maybe engage with the debate

    Do you condemn France action over Renault ?

    Simple question - no bullying or coward involved
    You are bullying Horse now into agreeing with your narrative.

    Now I really am off. I'm gone, I'm dust!
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Very easily. Have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no? yes or no? YES OR NO?

    And the first and worst bully I met on my first day at prep school kicked off with asking whether I ever let a little bit of wee out in bed?

    So your question, ironically, establishes exactly what it seeks to disprove.

    do you feel a bit of a tit now? (See what I did there?)
    Absolutely spot on. Bullies should be called out for what they are.
    This is a chat room, anonymous for the most part. I think you have a thing about BigG, and it provokes you to ‘call out’ stuff. We all have different view points.
    NPXMP has views I strongly disagree with on many things, but he is unfailingly polite. He makes this site better by his presence. I believe we would all do well to try to do the same. Are you trying to cancel BigG? Why not just disagree, and state your reasons?
    Big G never apologised for insulting and degrading my Grandmother who sadly passed away and has never apologised for his condescending and rude manner.
    I will put this to bed

    There was a time when you and others, including myself, were involved in a frenzied debate when lots of things were said by many and you left this forum

    Now as far as your grandmother is concerned I would not have insulted her and maybe at the time you misunderstood or were mistaken

    However, I unequivocally apologise to you if you feel I have insulted your grandmother, it was not intentional, and I hope you will accept this apology in the spirit it is given
    Bigger man, BigG. Good on you.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,258
    Malmesbury said:

    rottenborough said:

    kle4 said:

    rottenborough said:

    Helena Wilkinson
    @BBCHelena
    Wednesday’s Daily Telegraph: Ukrainians regain key territory in fightback #tomorrowspaperstoday

    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1506390043446943754


    Russian warship entire operation, go fuck yerself.

    It seems incredible to me that even with reported logistics problems with the initial invasion, made worse by a military and political elite which cannot tell the truth to the Tsar, that the Russians could not get their shit together and bring their greater resources to bear in a way that even a spirited and NATO supplied Ukraine could not beat back without things getting much worse before they get better. I very much hope they cannot, however, and that any counter attacks do not prove false dawns.
    Is it even remotely possible that the most senior military are throwing this one, in order to be shot of Vlad?
    There are many military defeats in history where you have to wonder about the allegiance of the people involved.

    Read about the War of the Triple Alliance.....
    Pretty sure we don't have to wonder sometimes, ydoethur can probably list any number of engagements where some of the lieutenants in a battle had no real desire to see their general win, and increase their power over said lieutenants as a result.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,944
    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,855
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
    Easy for him to say from a nice safe distance.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,776
    turbotubbs said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
    Easy for him to say from a nice safe distance.
    They are probably about half way there in 27 days (dead/wounded/pow/missing)

    Surely they won't be functioning as an army if they reach 50k over the next 25 days?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,715
    edited March 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    It was pretty much offence from 1943 onwards.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,258
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
    He'd probably be prepared for many more. I could easily see him as Kim Jong-Un from The Interview

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D33MfQJswZ8

    To those who seek to undermine me, at home and abroad, I cannot respond with anything less than the totality of my strength. If a billion people across the earth and in my own country must be burned to prove it, then my worthiness as a Kim will be demonstrated!

    (Randall Park, underated actor)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,944
    turbotubbs said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
    Easy for him to say from a nice safe distance.
    Putin claims to be a democrat, but the truth is only a non-democratic leader could say something like that and get away with it.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,727
    .
    Foxy said:

    I know its a pro-Ukranian source, but if this is even close to true then we either see mass Russian surrender or a breakout retreat. Total humiliation for the Russian army on the west side of Kyiv.

    https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1506256136504184834?t=alsE8wsalV-DDTXEbPEYFQ&s=19

    At the moment I think this is perhaps someone misunderstanding "we have cut off supplies to.." as "we have cut off..." to mean "those guys are encircled".
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
    Do you have a source for that? I haven't seen it before.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,414
    LostPassword said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    I know its a pro-Ukranian source, but if this is even close to true then we either see mass Russian surrender or a breakout retreat. Total humiliation for the Russian army on the west side of Kyiv.

    https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1506256136504184834?t=alsE8wsalV-DDTXEbPEYFQ&s=19

    At the moment I think this is perhaps someone misunderstanding "we have cut off supplies to.." as "we have cut off..." to mean "those guys are encircled".
    Given the apparent reliance of the Russians on roads for resupply, then if the Ukrainians have taken control of the roads behind them, the Russians are in a world of shit.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,644
    Mexicanpete said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
    7,001 is much higher than 7,000?

    Do you work for the LDs, by any chance?
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Didn't catch your reply on the previous thread, sorry. That isn't what was said on the previous thread. It was a question, asked once. That's not bullying, no matter how much the other person may hate the person asking it.
    I have to interject here. Your final statement bears no relation to reality. How dare you suggest I "hate" anyone.

    You clearly have a more general problem with me, as whatever point I make you try to make some contrary statement. Good for you, but don't make spurious claims on my behalf.
    @Mexicanpete sent you a DM.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,258
    Andy_JS said:

    turbotubbs said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
    Easy for him to say from a nice safe distance.
    Putin claims to be a democrat, but the truth is only a non-democratic leader could say something like that and get away with it.
    It's a strange part of the modern age that even as there is democratic backsliding, even most of the most autocratic regimes on earth still claim democratic legitimacy, even if they have to fake it in ludicrious ways. I'm surprised more don't just give up the pretence and claim popular support is enacted without bothering with the frappery of phony elections to claim that support.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,315
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
    He might, but will his senior military?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,715
    Interesting.
    To which of the narcisstic, rapacious, massively wealthy egotists is he referring?


  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,566
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    The Soviet Union seized a whole bunch of territory -- several countries' worth -- between 1939 and 1945. And they kept it a long, long time. So no, calling it a war of defence is really not accurate.
    The vast majority of the casualties were inflicted defending the USSR after Nazi invasion. Yes they did take some Eastern European countries later on but they also liberated them from the Nazis too
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,315
    IshmaelZ said:

    We got a thousand points of light
    For the homeless man
    We got a kinder, gentler machine gun hand
    We got department stores and toilet paper
    Got Styrofoam boxes for the ozone layer
    Got a man of the people, says keep hope alive
    Got fuel to burn, got roads to drive

    Monumental from Neil.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,776
    kle4 said:

    turbotubbs said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
    Easy for him to say from a nice safe distance.
    He is never more than one table length from the action. Of course, no one said there was an upper limit on table size...
    Once, we thought a table was a table. But now... Now we dare to dream.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
    Russian or Ukrainian casualties?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    williamglenn said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
    Do you have a source for that? I haven't seen it before.
    Given he only had 190,000 troops for the invasion 50k casualties is basically ridiculous.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,403
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Sunak has been an absolute disaster as Chancellor the more time has gone on.

    I knew it when he did the useless "Eat Out To Help Out".

    He is going one way and that is down.

    So who will save the Tories now? How do they get a majority?

    As Starmer has the charisma of a damp rag. If he wins it will be more Tory and Boris unpopularity than enthusiasm for Starmer, it will not be Blair as the new Messiah and New Labour 1997.

    However only 1 party has won a majority after 10 years in power since 1918, the Tories in 1992, so the odds still favour a Labour government
    Do you know I would prefer all our leaders to be boring but competent rather than showmen/women but useless.
    Ideally they would be both !!!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,855
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    The Soviet Union seized a whole bunch of territory -- several countries' worth -- between 1939 and 1945. And they kept it a long, long time. So no, calling it a war of defence is really not accurate.
    The vast majority of the casualties were inflicted defending the USSR after Nazi invasion. Yes they did take some Eastern European countries later on but they also liberated them from the Nazis too
    Hmmm. Some liberation. For a lot of Eastern Europe the Second World War only really ended in 1989.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,727
    rottenborough said:

    kle4 said:

    rottenborough said:

    Helena Wilkinson
    @BBCHelena
    Wednesday’s Daily Telegraph: Ukrainians regain key territory in fightback #tomorrowspaperstoday

    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1506390043446943754


    Russian warship entire operation, go fuck yerself.

    It seems incredible to me that even with reported logistics problems with the initial invasion, made worse by a military and political elite which cannot tell the truth to the Tsar, that the Russians could not get their shit together and bring their greater resources to bear in a way that even a spirited and NATO supplied Ukraine could not beat back without things getting much worse before they get better. I very much hope they cannot, however, and that any counter attacks do not prove false dawns.
    Is it even remotely possible that the most senior military are throwing this one, in order to be shot of Vlad?
    The failures seem to be so myriad and fundamental, that it seems unlikely.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,258
    This actually seems like it could be an awkward event, given NATO's firm position on requests to do more than it currently is. From BBC

    Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelensky will deliver a virtual address to the Nato summit of world leaders being held in Brussels on Thursday, according to the AFP news agency.

    "President Zelensky is invited to address the Nato summit via video link," an unnamed Nato official told AFP.

    "This will be an opportunity for allied leaders to hear directly from President Zelensky about the dire situation facing the people of Ukraine because of Russia's aggression."

    A spokesman for Zelensky told Interfax Ukraine that the president would be appearing in video format at some point during the conference, but that the details are still being worked out.

    "Ukraine will take an active part in it... At the least, it will be the president's address. At most - full participation, of course, in video format."

    "The format of participation will be known in the coming days," spokesman Serhiy Nikiforov said on Tuesday.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,944
    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
    Russian or Ukrainian casualties?
    Russian.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,029
    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Isn't there some figures much higher than 7,000 ?

    Lots. 7001, 7002...
    7,001 is much higher than 7,000?

    Do you work for the LDs, by any chance?
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Will you please stop bullying @RobD
    What are you asking of me?
    Help! Help!

    image
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    The Soviet Union seized a whole bunch of territory -- several countries' worth -- between 1939 and 1945. And they kept it a long, long time. So no, calling it a war of defence is really not accurate.
    The Ukrainian ambassador was on Newsnight mentioning the 15000 losses in Afghanistan being the beginning of the end for the Soviet Union.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,258
    Not that it hasn't been horrific, and the level of destruction that has been seem speaks for itself, but I have been surprised that the official reports of civilian casualties has not been higher. I don't doubt the difficulty in tallying though, so I'm sure it will rise significantly, and that lots will be missing right now.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,944
    williamglenn said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
    Do you have a source for that? I haven't seen it before.
    I can't remember the source I originally saw it in, but found this one in the Daily Record.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/putin-will-men-die-russia-26340725
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Andy_JS said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
    Russian or Ukrainian casualties?
    Russian.
    The Russian invasion force would ve unable to take 50k casualties and still be operational
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited March 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    turbotubbs said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Big G is a horrible person. Bully and a coward.

    Shame on you.

    Maybe engage with the debate

    Do you condemn France action over Renault ?

    Simple question - no bullying or coward involved
    You are bullying Horse now into agreeing with your narrative.

    Now I really am off. I'm gone, I'm dust!
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Very easily. Have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no? yes or no? YES OR NO?

    And the first and worst bully I met on my first day at prep school kicked off with asking whether I ever let a little bit of wee out in bed?

    So your question, ironically, establishes exactly what it seeks to disprove.

    do you feel a bit of a tit now? (See what I did there?)
    Absolutely spot on. Bullies should be called out for what they are.
    This is a chat room, anonymous for the most part. I think you have a thing about BigG, and it provokes you to ‘call out’ stuff. We all have different view points.
    NPXMP has views I strongly disagree with on many things, but he is unfailingly polite. He makes this site better by his presence. I believe we would all do well to try to do the same. Are you trying to cancel BigG? Why not just disagree, and state your reasons?
    Big G never apologised for insulting and degrading my Grandmother who sadly passed away and has never apologised for his condescending and rude manner.
    I will put this to bed

    There was a time when you and others, including myself, were involved in a frenzied debate when lots of things were said by many and you left this forum

    Now as far as your grandmother is concerned I would not have insulted her and maybe at the time you misunderstood or were mistaken

    However, I unequivocally apologise to you if you feel I have insulted your grandmother, it was not intentional, and I hope you will accept this apology in the spirit it is given
    The temptation to cause mischief by using my admin rights to edit BigG's post and add

    "Also, your grandmother can go fuck herself"

    was almost too much for me.

    Almost.
    :lol:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,029
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
    The army may have a different view.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,715
    rcs1000 said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    turbotubbs said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Big G is a horrible person. Bully and a coward.

    Shame on you.

    Maybe engage with the debate

    Do you condemn France action over Renault ?

    Simple question - no bullying or coward involved
    You are bullying Horse now into agreeing with your narrative.

    Now I really am off. I'm gone, I'm dust!
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Very easily. Have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no? yes or no? YES OR NO?

    And the first and worst bully I met on my first day at prep school kicked off with asking whether I ever let a little bit of wee out in bed?

    So your question, ironically, establishes exactly what it seeks to disprove.

    do you feel a bit of a tit now? (See what I did there?)
    Absolutely spot on. Bullies should be called out for what they are.
    This is a chat room, anonymous for the most part. I think you have a thing about BigG, and it provokes you to ‘call out’ stuff. We all have different view points.
    NPXMP has views I strongly disagree with on many things, but he is unfailingly polite. He makes this site better by his presence. I believe we would all do well to try to do the same. Are you trying to cancel BigG? Why not just disagree, and state your reasons?
    Big G never apologised for insulting and degrading my Grandmother who sadly passed away and has never apologised for his condescending and rude manner.
    I will put this to bed

    There was a time when you and others, including myself, were involved in a frenzied debate when lots of things were said by many and you left this forum

    Now as far as your grandmother is concerned I would not have insulted her and maybe at the time you misunderstood or were mistaken

    However, I unequivocally apologise to you if you feel I have insulted your grandmother, it was not intentional, and I hope you will accept this apology in the spirit it is given
    The temptation to cause mischief by using my admin rights to edit BigG's post and add

    "Also, your grandmother can go fuck herself"

    was almost too much for me.

    Almost.
    ‘Also, CHB grandmother, go fuck yourself’ shirly?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,727
    edited March 2022
    Malmesbury said:

    LostPassword said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    I know its a pro-Ukranian source, but if this is even close to true then we either see mass Russian surrender or a breakout retreat. Total humiliation for the Russian army on the west side of Kyiv.

    https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1506256136504184834?t=alsE8wsalV-DDTXEbPEYFQ&s=19

    At the moment I think this is perhaps someone misunderstanding "we have cut off supplies to.." as "we have cut off..." to mean "those guys are encircled".
    Given the apparent reliance of the Russians on roads for resupply, then if the Ukrainians have taken control of the roads behind them, the Russians are in a world of shit.
    The Ukrainians don't even need to have control of the roads, as such, they just have to have enough roving bands of ambushers to deny the Russians any possibility of safe passage. And then, yes, the Russians to the NW of Kyiv will run out of fuel, food and ammunition.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    The Soviet Union seized a whole bunch of territory -- several countries' worth -- between 1939 and 1945. And they kept it a long, long time. So no, calling it a war of defence is really not accurate.
    The vast majority of the casualties were inflicted defending the USSR after Nazi invasion. Yes they did take some Eastern European countries later on but they also liberated them from the Nazis too
    I rather think that 22,000 Polish men murdered at Katyn, could they speak - plus countless thousands more, elsewhere in Poland, in Belarus, in Ukrraine, in Latvia, in Estonia, and in Lithuania, men, women and children - might dispute your take on the Soviet 'war of defence'.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,776
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
    The army may have a different view.
    Not for long if they reach 50k casualties in 2 months. There won't be an army to have a view!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    I think it's telling that Russia issued an ultimatum to Mariupol a couple of days ago and since then there have been reports of further Russian losses there with no substantive change to the positions held.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Malmesbury said:

    mwadams said:

    kle4 said:

    turbotubbs said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    Putin apparently stated at the start of the war that he was prepared for 50,000 casualties.
    Easy for him to say from a nice safe distance.
    He is never more than one table length from the action. Of course, no one said there was an upper limit on table size...
    Once, we thought a table was a table. But now... Now we dare to dream.
    Smaller areas have seats at the UN.
    It's worrying, I find that everything that happens is adequately explained by either aliens or The Death of Stalin. In this case D o S and some people trying to get an outsize wreath into the funeral and SRB as Beria saying "It's bigger than the region itself."
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,315
    rottenborough said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    We got a thousand points of light
    For the homeless man
    We got a kinder, gentler machine gun hand
    We got department stores and toilet paper
    Got Styrofoam boxes for the ozone layer
    Got a man of the people, says keep hope alive
    Got fuel to burn, got roads to drive

    Monumental from Neil.
    For those who haven't seen it - 12 min version with Pearl Jam.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvtdbfI1sqQ
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,566
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Russia has the stomach for high casualties though, see WW2. Though that was a war of defence not offence

    The Soviet Union seized a whole bunch of territory -- several countries' worth -- between 1939 and 1945. And they kept it a long, long time. So no, calling it a war of defence is really not accurate.
    The vast majority of the casualties were inflicted defending the USSR after Nazi invasion. Yes they did take some Eastern European countries later on but they also liberated them from the Nazis too
    I rather think that 22,000 Polish men murdered at Katyn, could they speak - plus countless thousands more, elsewhere in Poland, in Belarus, in Ukrraine, in Latvia, in Estonia, and in Lithuania, men, women and children - might dispute your take on the Soviet 'war of defence'.
    Most of those were in the Soviet Union before the war and after the war except Poland ie not foreign nations
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,855
    edited March 2022
    Farooq said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    turbotubbs said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Big G is a horrible person. Bully and a coward.

    Shame on you.

    Maybe engage with the debate

    Do you condemn France action over Renault ?

    Simple question - no bullying or coward involved
    You are bullying Horse now into agreeing with your narrative.

    Now I really am off. I'm gone, I'm dust!
    How is asking a question bullying?
    Very easily. Have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no? yes or no? YES OR NO?

    And the first and worst bully I met on my first day at prep school kicked off with asking whether I ever let a little bit of wee out in bed?

    So your question, ironically, establishes exactly what it seeks to disprove.

    do you feel a bit of a tit now? (See what I did there?)
    Absolutely spot on. Bullies should be called out for what they are.
    This is a chat room, anonymous for the most part. I think you have a thing about BigG, and it provokes you to ‘call out’ stuff. We all have different view points.
    NPXMP has views I strongly disagree with on many things, but he is unfailingly polite. He makes this site better by his presence. I believe we would all do well to try to do the same. Are you trying to cancel BigG? Why not just disagree, and state your reasons?
    Big G never apologised for insulting and degrading my Grandmother who sadly passed away and has never apologised for his condescending and rude manner.
    I will put this to bed

    There was a time when you and others, including myself, were involved in a frenzied debate when lots of things were said by many and you left this forum

    Now as far as your grandmother is concerned I would not have insulted her and maybe at the time you misunderstood or were mistaken

    However, I unequivocally apologise to you if you feel I have insulted your grandmother, it was not intentional, and I hope you will accept this apology in the spirit it is given
    The temptation to cause mischief by using my admin rights to edit BigG's post and add

    "Also, your grandmother can go fuck herself"

    was almost too much for me.

    Almost.
    ‘Also, CHB grandmother, go fuck yourself’ shirly?
    This conversation probably still isn't that fun for CHB
    No, but looking back it’s clear to me that BigG did not say what CHB thinks/remembers he did, so I’m not sure quite why he is so angry. He did suggest that CHB gloated about having an inheritance, which was probably not true, and at best a poor choice of words. He has apologised tonight, unacknowledged so far, but tbf it’s late and people hav3 better things to do than endless chat on pb, and have to work in the morning. Well the younger ones at least...
This discussion has been closed.

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