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Sunak next CON leader? I’m not convinced – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited March 2022 in General
imageSunak next CON leader? I’m not convinced – politicalbetting.com

Sunak has been favourite for the Conservative leadership for so long now that it is almost becoming an established fact that this will eventually happen. But does he have the backing of enough MPs and is the betting price wrong?

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    First.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    eek said:

    Yokes said:

    Few things of note:

    There seems to be a lot of rumours of the supposed Ukrainian offensive against the breakaway republics starting tonight. This of course ignores the fact the Ukrainians have had some years to do this and haven't, and probably wouldn't anyway. As it is, yet another mark in the column of excuses for Russia to justify an attack.

    Perhaps more concerning, plenty of pictures of Russian military vehicles sporting IFF motifs. For the uninitiated, these markings help make sure you can identify your forces from the enemy. Especially useful when you have a lot of kit in common.

    Finally, the stories are that the US has prepped to support some kind of Ukrainian insurgency. This assumes a) an attack which Russia clearly has in the options and is certainly positioned to do and b) that any attack is a Day-1 full scale invasion of all of Ukraine, which as yet I wouldn't quite be so confident will necessarily be the case, even though all the tools are in place.

    And remember, as I mentioned nearly couple of weeks ago, Sundays are always days to watch.

    Also worth remembering Russia is running out of time before the frozen ground becomes mud.
    Also natural gas demand is quite seasonal. As we get into March, European demand for gas falls quite quickly.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited February 2022
    Sunak is in charge of the most tax greedy Exchequer of all time. The right (ie tories who decide who their leader is )dont like this and as for voters ,well even if you buy the argument that taxes need to rise , then raising National insurance was the most unfair tax to rise - The tories were right when they said NI was a tax on jobs (and labour) ,its a pity Sunak has ignored that message 15 years on. Also the level of fraud on furlough schemes, eat out to help out , SEISS grants is literally criminal
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited February 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Yokes said:

    Few things of note:

    There seems to be a lot of rumours of the supposed Ukrainian offensive against the breakaway republics starting tonight. This of course ignores the fact the Ukrainians have had some years to do this and haven't, and probably wouldn't anyway. As it is, yet another mark in the column of excuses for Russia to justify an attack.

    Perhaps more concerning, plenty of pictures of Russian military vehicles sporting IFF motifs. For the uninitiated, these markings help make sure you can identify your forces from the enemy. Especially useful when you have a lot of kit in common.

    Finally, the stories are that the US has prepped to support some kind of Ukrainian insurgency. This assumes a) an attack which Russia clearly has in the options and is certainly positioned to do and b) that any attack is a Day-1 full scale invasion of all of Ukraine, which as yet I wouldn't quite be so confident will necessarily be the case, even though all the tools are in place.

    And remember, as I mentioned nearly couple of weeks ago, Sundays are always days to watch.

    Also worth remembering Russia is running out of time before the frozen ground becomes mud.
    Also natural gas demand is quite seasonal. As we get into March, European demand for gas falls quite quickly.
    He may just be waiting for his mates winter olympic party to finish . look out on Monday. He would quite like China on side I would think
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    May I congratulate myself.......

    But seriously on Russia/Ukraine I've tried following Mary Dejevsky on twitter. She's a former foreign correspondent for the Times after all. It is frankly bizarre. She states that the deployment of troops on the Ukraine border could equally be a defensive move rather than an offensive one, that we should stop trying to read Putin's mind and instead just believe what he tells us (he's a straightforward fellow!) and that he really is just concerned about the expansion of Nato to Russia's borders.

    There is the interesting point as to why Biden/Zelensky seem to differ so much on Russia's probability of attacking but the rest just seems barking mad.
  • I'll say it again.

    Rishi Sunak is the Indian heritage David Miliband.

    Lest we forget he is a coward who is only Chancellor because he was prepared to wear the political gimp mask handed to him by Dom Cummings.

    He will not feature in any profiles in courage.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    edited February 2022
    Come on you Spurs.

    You are my favourite London club.

    Edit - Feck VAR.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Totally agree with Mike on this.

    Meanwhile, the other day I suggested that those British who wish to rejoin the EU might be best moving to Scotland, claiming Scottish citizenship (which at the moment isn't a thing) and waiting for independence, then for Scotland to vote to join the EU. As tortuous a route as summiting K2 in winter.

    There is another option and it really comes to the fore with this evening's comments by Sinn Fein deputy leader Michelle O'Neill. She's suggesting that the Irish gov't prepares for a united Ireland. She sees it as the consequence of [Boris' ridiculous] Irish sea issue. This raises the intriguing prospect that to become an EU citizen anyone in Britain might not need to claim Irish ancestry as at present but simply to be in the right place at the right time viz a viz the current Northern Ireland. Wow.

    https://news.sky.com/story/sinn-fein-deputy-leader-michelle-oneill-urges-irish-government-to-prepare-for-a-united-ireland-12545895
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826

    Come on you Spurs.

    You are my favourite London club.

    Edit - Feck VAR.

    I've always thought that Harry Kane fellow was an excellent chap.
  • I'm with Mike. Sunak is the Tory David Miliband.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    One for the PB Brains Trust

    Well, I've (my company) just received an email from some domain registration company in China saying that someone wants to register a company with the China suffix using my name (which is an unusual one) and asking if they are my distribution partner.

    I assume this is a scam and I should not reply..... yes?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    May I congratulate myself.......

    But seriously on Russia/Ukraine I've tried following Mary Dejevsky on twitter. She's a former foreign correspondent for the Times after all. It is frankly bizarre. She states that the deployment of troops on the Ukraine border could equally be a defensive move rather than an offensive one, that we should stop trying to read Putin's mind and instead just believe what he tells us (he's a straightforward fellow!) and that he really is just concerned about the expansion of Nato to Russia's borders.

    There is the interesting point as to why Biden/Zelensky seem to differ so much on Russia's probability of attacking but the rest just seems barking mad.

    Especially strange when you can buy commercial satellite imagery on the open market that shows that the Russian military build up is multiple times bigger than any forces in Ukraine, or indeed in any of the NATO countries *beyond* Ukraine.
  • Foxy said:

    Not Sunak nor Truss.

    Mordaunt looks a better bet.

    Definitely a value bet.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Julian Smith for me.

    (This is in no way influenced by the bet I have on him. )
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited February 2022
    Agree Sunak is not going to be next leader as things stand.

    If a new leader is needed now then it is at a time when government and ministers have collectively acted badly, and any one of them could be destroyed by fresh revelations, and continue the cycle.

    If new leader is later, economic events to come will mean the chancellor is in a sub optimal position.

    His best chance has gone. Which was resignation some weeks ago.

    Finally, though he is very very good he comes across as a number 2/number 3 not number 1. Similar in a sense to Ed Miliband, who is also very good but not number 1. Politicians have learned from 'the wrong brother' that you have to pick Number 1 candidate.

    Footnote: Corbyn was a Number Z candidate, but was allowed to stand by democratically minded MPs like Frank Field, and elected by a dim membership. They won't make that mistake again for a bit. T May was a Number Z candidate too, but rose to the top is strange and unique circumstances.

    Hunt for me would be the best bet both politically and betting wise.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Cyclefree said:

    One for the PB Brains Trust

    Well, I've (my company) just received an email from some domain registration company in China saying that someone wants to register a company with the China suffix using my name (which is an unusual one) and asking if they are my distribution partner.

    I assume this is a scam and I should not reply..... yes?

    https://www.hinshawlaw.com/newsroom-updates-chinese-domain-name-email-scam.html
  • Cyclefree said:

    One for the PB Brains Trust

    Well, I've (my company) just received an email from some domain registration company in China saying that someone wants to register a company with the China suffix using my name (which is an unusual one) and asking if they are my distribution partner.

    I assume this is a scam and I should not reply..... yes?

    well i suppose you woudl only reply if you were bothered (if it were genuine) in any case that a company will use your name for its business ventures. There is an estate in California that uses my name and they are welcome to ! All adds to the brand !
  • Cyclefree said:

    One for the PB Brains Trust

    Well, I've (my company) just received an email from some domain registration company in China saying that someone wants to register a company with the China suffix using my name (which is an unusual one) and asking if they are my distribution partner.

    I assume this is a scam and I should not reply..... yes?

    Scam and ignore.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Sunak is in charge of the most tax greedy Exchequer of all time. The right (ie tories who decide who their leader is )dont like this and as for voters ,well even if you buy the argument that taxes need to rise , then raising National insurance was the most unfair tax to rise - The tories were right when they said NI was a tax on jobs (and labour) ,its a pity Sunak has ignored that message 15 years on. Also the level of fraud on furlough schemes, eat out to help out , SEISS grants is literally criminal

    Totally agree.

    The fissure within Conservative economic policy beggars belief. I don't like blaming Carrie for things but some of this does go back to her: quasi left-wing very green policies which sit at odds with the right wing conservative laissez-faire approach. But this must also be in large measure because Boris Johnson himself not only has no moral compass, but for Conservatives far more importantly he has no political compass. He's all over the bloody shop. There is no defining vision or ethos, nothing that coheres.

    So we end up with a massive contradiction of policies, a spendthrift Gov't which would have made even Labour eyes water coupled with huge tax rises.

    If this massive Tax and Spend had come from Jim Callaghan, Harold Wilson or that dreadful Jeremy Corbyn the press would have hounded them out of office.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Cyclefree said:

    Julian Smith for me.

    (This is in no way influenced by the bet I have on him. )

    You wrote a thread on this.

    I have a friend who worked very closely with him for several years and that friend was incredulous at your suggestion.
  • Greens snapping at Starmer's heels in Bristol:


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-60430720
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited February 2022

    Foxy said:

    Not Sunak nor Truss.

    Mordaunt looks a better bet.

    Definitely a value bet.
    I think this is pb at work. I really like Penny which for a leftie like me is saying something.

    And that's why I don't think she will get it. She's far too pleasant. Too much in touch with the common people. Too with it. Too savvy.

    This isn't me being snide. It's because the people who elect the next Conservative leader are 1. Tory MPs and 2. Conservative Members.

    If it was the public, or pb.com, very different story.

    Oh and tory MPs are pretty misogynistic. After what they deem the nightmare of Theresa May (I thought she was okay) I don't believe they will elect another woman for a long time.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Heathener said:

    Totally agree with Mike on this.

    Meanwhile, the other day I suggested that those British who wish to rejoin the EU might be best moving to Scotland, claiming Scottish citizenship (which at the moment isn't a thing) and waiting for independence, then for Scotland to vote to join the EU. As tortuous a route as summiting K2 in winter.

    There is another option and it really comes to the fore with this evening's comments by Sinn Fein deputy leader Michelle O'Neill. She's suggesting that the Irish gov't prepares for a united Ireland. She sees it as the consequence of [Boris' ridiculous] Irish sea issue. This raises the intriguing prospect that to become an EU citizen anyone in Britain might not need to claim Irish ancestry as at present but simply to be in the right place at the right time viz a viz the current Northern Ireland. Wow.

    https://news.sky.com/story/sinn-fein-deputy-leader-michelle-oneill-urges-irish-government-to-prepare-for-a-united-ireland-12545895

    Agree with united Ireland FWIW but the Scotland thing has to deal with the EU border with England issue, but without the benefit of the Irish Sea. Only when the SNP start saying that there are no difficulties between GB, NI and EU and that something even more complicated will work fine for Gretna and Berwick, and explain to us what it is, will this be credible.

  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    edited February 2022
    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Not Sunak nor Truss.

    Mordaunt looks a better bet.

    Definitely a value bet.
    I think this is pb at work. I really like Penny which for a leftie like me is saying something.

    And that's why I don't think she will get it. She's far too pleasant. Too much in touch with the common people. Too with it. Too savvy.

    This isn't me being snide. It's because the people who elect the next Conservative leader are 1. Tory MPs and 2. Conservative Members.

    If it was the public, or pb.com, very different story.

    Oh and tory MPs are pretty misogynistic. After what they deem the nightmare of Theresa May (I thought she was okay) I don't believe they will elect another woman for a long time.
    You are aware that the misogynistic Tory MPs who got rid of Theresa May are the same* ones who appointed her in the first place, right?

    *more-or-less
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Greens snapping at Starmer's heels in Bristol:


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-60430720

    Would be more useful if they could get rid of that useless twat Marvin Rees.

  • Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani


    Scottish nationalists want to join the EU, adopt Euro & be a part of NATO.

    All perfectly fine, of course, but what is the point of independence?

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1495111938291994625
  • Bit early to write off Rishi Sunak, methinks. Long-term anyway, as he's only 41 years old.

    Took Sir Anthony Eden about twenty years to advance from Foreign Secretary (first appointment) to Prime Minister.

    And RS reminds me of AE, though I am NOT attributing any of the latter's shortcomings to the former.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    Sunak is, or could be, the head of the "sound on Brexit, still has a chance of winning the next election" group. Which, after all, is why Johnson got the job.

    Possible that Sunak himself asked MPs to wait. He may prefer to take over later, when he can blame his boss for the NI rise, and deploy a pre-election income tax cut.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    One thing I was thinking today: if Russia does invade Ukraine, I'm expecting lots of videos of war crimes against civilians to rapidly be posted on social media by both sides. Some of these will be real, others will not.

    This will be one of the first wars which will be fought on the Internet and information channels as much as on the ground.

    Expect lots of talks of how the west 'poked' Russia into this.
  • ydoethur said:

    Greens snapping at Starmer's heels in Bristol:


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-60430720

    Would be more useful if they could get rid of that useless twat Marvin Rees.
    I've no idea. Not enough knowledge about what is happening in Bristol to be honest, other than for years it has been said that the only likely 2nd green MP will be in Bristol.*


    * Assuming Jeeza doesn't defect.

  • Fuck VAR.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373


    Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani


    Scottish nationalists want to join the EU, adopt Euro & be a part of NATO.

    All perfectly fine, of course, but what is the point of independence?

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1495111938291994625

    To piss off the English. HTH.

    *Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*
  • I fucking love Harry Kane and Spurs.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    IshmaelZ said:

    Cyclefree said:

    One for the PB Brains Trust

    Well, I've (my company) just received an email from some domain registration company in China saying that someone wants to register a company with the China suffix using my name (which is an unusual one) and asking if they are my distribution partner.

    I assume this is a scam and I should not reply..... yes?

    https://www.hinshawlaw.com/newsroom-updates-chinese-domain-name-email-scam.html
    Thank you to all who have replied. Email deleted.
    Heathener said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Julian Smith for me.

    (This is in no way influenced by the bet I have on him. )

    You wrote a thread on this.

    I have a friend who worked very closely with him for several years and that friend was incredulous at your suggestion.
    I don't really expect the bet to pay out. It would be very lucrative if it did, mind!
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    I fucking love Harry Kane and Spurs.

    Worth it for that camp "oooo" and "football, bloody hell!", if I heard the latter right?!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    edited February 2022
    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Not Sunak nor Truss.

    Mordaunt looks a better bet.

    Definitely a value bet.
    I think this is pb at work. I really like Penny which for a leftie like me is saying something.

    And that's why I don't think she will get it. She's far too pleasant. Too much in touch with the common people. Too with it. Too savvy.

    This isn't me being snide. It's because the people who elect the next Conservative leader are 1. Tory MPs and 2. Conservative Members.

    If it was the public, or pb.com, very different story.

    Oh and tory MPs are pretty misogynistic. After what they deem the nightmare of Theresa May (I thought she was okay) I don't believe they will elect another woman for a long time.
    Frankly, you have no idea about the Conservative Party! We had a woman as Conservative leader in 1975. 47 years on, after two, the Labour Party still hasn't had one. You really want to talk misogyny in political parties?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    edited February 2022

    I fucking love Harry Kane and Spurs.

    Worth it for that camp "oooo" and "football, bloody hell!", if I heard the latter right?!
    You did, from Jamie Carragher.
  • Ian Lavery, MP:


    "I've got a degree from the university of National Union of Mine Workers in unity and in solidarity. That does me."

    https://twitter.com/ucu/status/1494770858493157382
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Bit early to write off Rishi Sunak, methinks. Long-term anyway, as he's only 41 years old.

    Took Sir Anthony Eden about twenty years to advance from Foreign Secretary (first appointment) to Prime Minister.

    And RS reminds me of AE, though I am NOT attributing any of the latter's shortcomings to the former.

    The problem I think is the one William Hague had: wrong timing.

    Sunak's best chance was up until a fortnight ago.

    If Johnson survives until the GE, and loses, can you really see the tories regaining power after one term? I just don't see it. Not after holding the keys to Downing St since 2010. Sunak might become leader but he'll end up like William Hague, not that I think Sunak has anything like Hague's charisma.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078

    May I congratulate myself.......

    But seriously on Russia/Ukraine I've tried following Mary Dejevsky on twitter. She's a former foreign correspondent for the Times after all. It is frankly bizarre. She states that the deployment of troops on the Ukraine border could equally be a defensive move rather than an offensive one, that we should stop trying to read Putin's mind and instead just believe what he tells us (he's a straightforward fellow!) and that he really is just concerned about the expansion of Nato to Russia's borders.

    There is the interesting point as to why Biden/Zelensky seem to differ so much on Russia's probability of attacking but the rest just seems barking mad.

    Mary Dejevsky is a reliable Putinbot, Always supportive for the Kremlin line.

  • Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani


    Scottish nationalists want to join the EU, adopt Euro & be a part of NATO.

    All perfectly fine, of course, but what is the point of independence?

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1495111938291994625

    Reposting that Bastani dumbo Scottish tweet day comes round earlier every year.




  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    One thing I was thinking today: if Russia does invade Ukraine, I'm expecting lots of videos of war crimes against civilians to rapidly be posted on social media by both sides. Some of these will be real, others will not.

    This will be one of the first wars which will be fought on the Internet and information channels as much as on the ground.

    Expect lots of talks of how the west 'poked' Russia into this.

    Which one was it where they were using bit of obscure WWII movies as propaganda of current events?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    edited February 2022

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Not Sunak nor Truss.

    Mordaunt looks a better bet.

    Definitely a value bet.
    I think this is pb at work. I really like Penny which for a leftie like me is saying something.

    And that's why I don't think she will get it. She's far too pleasant. Too much in touch with the common people. Too with it. Too savvy.

    This isn't me being snide. It's because the people who elect the next Conservative leader are 1. Tory MPs and 2. Conservative Members.

    If it was the public, or pb.com, very different story.

    Oh and tory MPs are pretty misogynistic. After what they deem the nightmare of Theresa May (I thought she was okay) I don't believe they will elect another woman for a long time.
    Frankly, you have no idea about the Conservative Party! We had a woman as Conservative leader in 1975. 47 years on, after two, the Labour Party still hasn't had one. You really want to talk misogyny in political parties?
    Not only have they not had one, but no woman has ever beaten any man in any Labour leadership election.

    It seems scarcely believable when put that way.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited February 2022

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Not Sunak nor Truss.

    Mordaunt looks a better bet.

    Definitely a value bet.
    I think this is pb at work. I really like Penny which for a leftie like me is saying something.

    And that's why I don't think she will get it. She's far too pleasant. Too much in touch with the common people. Too with it. Too savvy.

    This isn't me being snide. It's because the people who elect the next Conservative leader are 1. Tory MPs and 2. Conservative Members.

    If it was the public, or pb.com, very different story.

    Oh and tory MPs are pretty misogynistic. After what they deem the nightmare of Theresa May (I thought she was okay) I don't believe they will elect another woman for a long time.
    Frankly, you have no idea about the Conservative Party!
    Oh I do ...

    But I'll leave that right there in terms of my upbringing and current contacts.

    The party in parliament is very misogynistic at the moment. They turned on Theresa May. Had her deal have been presented by a man there's a good chance it would have gone through. But they decided that her dithering was a female trait.

    They had one brilliant female leader. Most of them (in parliament I mean) are resigned to the fact that she was unique.

    Do not bet on another female leader of the Conservative Party anytime soon. It will be money down the drain.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Cicero said:

    The Estonian PM is back in Tallinn from Munich, where she and the other Baltic leaders met with Kamela Harris and seem to have been given a briefing on why the US beleives that Russia still intends to launch an attack against Ukraine. More to the point the US and the UK have given a complete pledge to back Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia with full military measures, should the conflict spill over in our direction. I would say that the mood in Tallinn is fairly fatalist, although there is some relief that the promised British troops are finally on their way. It does seem that the last 24 hours has ramped up the risk of a Russian invasion in Ukraine quite a bit but Estonians are equally concerned about some other unexpected move from the Kremlin. As others have noted here, these are not ideal circumstances for a successful invasion and it is quite clear that NATO has a full intelligence read out on the current order of battle. Ukrainian troops are taking some punishment at the line of contact with the green men and Russian forces but for the moment it seems that Russia is still holding off on the final go/no go decision.

    I still think Putin would be making a possibly fatal mistake and that the Ukrainian army is capable of inflicting severe damage on the invading forces. Any occupation will be fiercely resisted and I am not even sure that Russia can rely on air superiority, given the large numbers of anti aircraft and drone weapons that Ukraine clearly posesses. The Estonians are suggesting that the crisis could last quite a long time if the war becomes a deadlock. Under those circumstances then the situation could get very dangerous indeed. We take refuge in rather black humour, but the prospect of another Russian occupation of the Baltic, when the last one killed a third of the population, is not something that any of us take lightly.

    Very interesting post - thank-you
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Cicero said:

    May I congratulate myself.......

    But seriously on Russia/Ukraine I've tried following Mary Dejevsky on twitter. She's a former foreign correspondent for the Times after all. It is frankly bizarre. She states that the deployment of troops on the Ukraine border could equally be a defensive move rather than an offensive one, that we should stop trying to read Putin's mind and instead just believe what he tells us (he's a straightforward fellow!) and that he really is just concerned about the expansion of Nato to Russia's borders.

    There is the interesting point as to why Biden/Zelensky seem to differ so much on Russia's probability of attacking but the rest just seems barking mad.

    Mary Dejevsky is a reliable Putinbot, Always supportive for the Kremlin line.
    I'm not sure it's quite that. More a useful idiot possibly.

    I'm sure I speak for many by saying your comments on how this is viewed in Estonia adds greatly to the site.
    You certainly speak for me.
  • Heathener said:

    Bit early to write off Rishi Sunak, methinks. Long-term anyway, as he's only 41 years old.

    Took Sir Anthony Eden about twenty years to advance from Foreign Secretary (first appointment) to Prime Minister.

    And RS reminds me of AE, though I am NOT attributing any of the latter's shortcomings to the former.

    The problem I think is the one William Hague had: wrong timing.

    Sunak's best chance was up until a fortnight ago.

    If Johnson survives until the GE, and loses, can you really see the tories regaining power after one term? I just don't see it. Not after holding the keys to Downing St since 2010. Sunak might become leader but he'll end up like William Hague, not that I think Sunak has anything like Hague's charisma.
    The world of Eden is a world away. Nobody in public life has the patience to stick it out like that. Everything moves at Internet time.
  • Regardless of what you think about @BorisJohnson, he has risen to the occasion at #MSC2022 with a clear & compelling message on Russia, democratic values & even the Indo-Pacific & Chinese coercion against Lithuania. Other leaders missed their opportunity to do so

    https://twitter.com/noahbarkin/status/1495009820314853377?s=21

    The UK government - and Opposition - have been robust on this
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Applicant said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Not Sunak nor Truss.

    Mordaunt looks a better bet.

    Definitely a value bet.
    I think this is pb at work. I really like Penny which for a leftie like me is saying something.

    And that's why I don't think she will get it. She's far too pleasant. Too much in touch with the common people. Too with it. Too savvy.

    This isn't me being snide. It's because the people who elect the next Conservative leader are 1. Tory MPs and 2. Conservative Members.

    If it was the public, or pb.com, very different story.

    Oh and tory MPs are pretty misogynistic. After what they deem the nightmare of Theresa May (I thought she was okay) I don't believe they will elect another woman for a long time.
    Frankly, you have no idea about the Conservative Party! We had a woman as Conservative leader in 1975. 47 years on, after two, the Labour Party still hasn't had one. You really want to talk misogyny in political parties?
    Not only have they not had one, but no woman has ever beaten any man in any Labour leadership election.

    It seems scarcely believable when put that way.
    Not when you look at the calibre of those involved.

    As a woman let me be the first to say that this shouldn't be about tokenism and I don't think it's the place of men to call out misogynism.

    I think Rachel Reeves looks a really good prospect. I personally really like Angela Rayner but she would be too gobby for the right wing media.

    Penny Mordaunt would make a great Labour leader in the Keir Starmer real politik.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    Heathener said:

    Applicant said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Not Sunak nor Truss.

    Mordaunt looks a better bet.

    Definitely a value bet.
    I think this is pb at work. I really like Penny which for a leftie like me is saying something.

    And that's why I don't think she will get it. She's far too pleasant. Too much in touch with the common people. Too with it. Too savvy.

    This isn't me being snide. It's because the people who elect the next Conservative leader are 1. Tory MPs and 2. Conservative Members.

    If it was the public, or pb.com, very different story.

    Oh and tory MPs are pretty misogynistic. After what they deem the nightmare of Theresa May (I thought she was okay) I don't believe they will elect another woman for a long time.
    Frankly, you have no idea about the Conservative Party! We had a woman as Conservative leader in 1975. 47 years on, after two, the Labour Party still hasn't had one. You really want to talk misogyny in political parties?
    Not only have they not had one, but no woman has ever beaten any man in any Labour leadership election.

    It seems scarcely believable when put that way.
    Not when you look at the calibre of those involved.

    As a woman let me be the first to say that this shouldn't be about tokenism and I don't think it's the place of men to call out misogynism.

    I think Rachel Reeves looks a really good prospect. I personally really like Angela Rayner but she would be too gobby for the right wing media.

    Penny Mordaunt would make a great Labour leader in the Keir Starmer real politik.
    I have a small bet on Jess Phillips. I have no idea why.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    edited February 2022
    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Not Sunak nor Truss.

    Mordaunt looks a better bet.

    Definitely a value bet.
    I think this is pb at work. I really like Penny which for a leftie like me is saying something.

    And that's why I don't think she will get it. She's far too pleasant. Too much in touch with the common people. Too with it. Too savvy.

    This isn't me being snide. It's because the people who elect the next Conservative leader are 1. Tory MPs and 2. Conservative Members.

    If it was the public, or pb.com, very different story.

    Oh and tory MPs are pretty misogynistic. After what they deem the nightmare of Theresa May (I thought she was okay) I don't believe they will elect another woman for a long time.
    I think there is a deep set Tory desire for a second Thatcher. It was both a benefit and a curse for May. Instagram Liz clearly sees herself in that mold even if no one else does. Morduant fits the spec rather better. Good value IMO.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,695
    Endillion said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Not Sunak nor Truss.

    Mordaunt looks a better bet.

    Definitely a value bet.
    I think this is pb at work. I really like Penny which for a leftie like me is saying something.

    And that's why I don't think she will get it. She's far too pleasant. Too much in touch with the common people. Too with it. Too savvy.

    This isn't me being snide. It's because the people who elect the next Conservative leader are 1. Tory MPs and 2. Conservative Members.

    If it was the public, or pb.com, very different story.

    Oh and tory MPs are pretty misogynistic. After what they deem the nightmare of Theresa May (I thought she was okay) I don't believe they will elect another woman for a long time.
    You are aware that the misogynistic Tory MPs who got rid of Theresa May are the same* ones who appointed her in the first place, right?

    *more-or-less
    May would have been fine except she invited Johnson, Davis and Fox back into the fold.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    May I congratulate myself.......

    But seriously on Russia/Ukraine I've tried following Mary Dejevsky on twitter. She's a former foreign correspondent for the Times after all. It is frankly bizarre. She states that the deployment of troops on the Ukraine border could equally be a defensive move rather than an offensive one, that we should stop trying to read Putin's mind and instead just believe what he tells us (he's a straightforward fellow!) and that he really is just concerned about the expansion of Nato to Russia's borders.

    There is the interesting point as to why Biden/Zelensky seem to differ so much on Russia's probability of attacking but the rest just seems barking mad.

    Appears to be a conspiracy theorist.

    https://twitter.com/marydejevsky/status/1495021870344769543
    Dear @AndrewGimson, beg to differ. #Skripals is one of most scandalous - & successful - disinfo exercises by @govUK…
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Heathener said:

    Applicant said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Not Sunak nor Truss.

    Mordaunt looks a better bet.

    Definitely a value bet.
    I think this is pb at work. I really like Penny which for a leftie like me is saying something.

    And that's why I don't think she will get it. She's far too pleasant. Too much in touch with the common people. Too with it. Too savvy.

    This isn't me being snide. It's because the people who elect the next Conservative leader are 1. Tory MPs and 2. Conservative Members.

    If it was the public, or pb.com, very different story.

    Oh and tory MPs are pretty misogynistic. After what they deem the nightmare of Theresa May (I thought she was okay) I don't believe they will elect another woman for a long time.
    Frankly, you have no idea about the Conservative Party! We had a woman as Conservative leader in 1975. 47 years on, after two, the Labour Party still hasn't had one. You really want to talk misogyny in political parties?
    Not only have they not had one, but no woman has ever beaten any man in any Labour leadership election.

    It seems scarcely believable when put that way.
    Not when you look at the calibre of those involved.
    Even 2015?

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Heathener said:

    Applicant said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Not Sunak nor Truss.

    Mordaunt looks a better bet.

    Definitely a value bet.
    I think this is pb at work. I really like Penny which for a leftie like me is saying something.

    And that's why I don't think she will get it. She's far too pleasant. Too much in touch with the common people. Too with it. Too savvy.

    This isn't me being snide. It's because the people who elect the next Conservative leader are 1. Tory MPs and 2. Conservative Members.

    If it was the public, or pb.com, very different story.

    Oh and tory MPs are pretty misogynistic. After what they deem the nightmare of Theresa May (I thought she was okay) I don't believe they will elect another woman for a long time.
    Frankly, you have no idea about the Conservative Party! We had a woman as Conservative leader in 1975. 47 years on, after two, the Labour Party still hasn't had one. You really want to talk misogyny in political parties?
    Not only have they not had one, but no woman has ever beaten any man in any Labour leadership election.

    It seems scarcely believable when put that way.
    Not when you look at the calibre of those involved.

    As a woman let me be the first to say that this shouldn't be about tokenism and I don't think it's the place of men to call out misogynism.

    I think Rachel Reeves looks a really good prospect. I personally really like Angela Rayner but she would be too gobby for the right wing media.

    Penny Mordaunt would make a great Labour leader in the Keir Starmer real politik.
    I have a small bet on Jess Phillips. I have no idea why.
    I suspect the 'reason why' is that she has plenty of charisma. If Starmer fails to become PM his lack of charisma will be a big factor and Labour will probably select their next leader accordingly. Rayner fits the bill too; Reeves, not so much.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Not Sunak nor Truss.

    Mordaunt looks a better bet.

    Definitely a value bet.
    I think this is pb at work. I really like Penny which for a leftie like me is saying something.

    And that's why I don't think she will get it. She's far too pleasant. Too much in touch with the common people. Too with it. Too savvy.

    This isn't me being snide. It's because the people who elect the next Conservative leader are 1. Tory MPs and 2. Conservative Members.

    If it was the public, or pb.com, very different story.

    Oh and tory MPs are pretty misogynistic. After what they deem the nightmare of Theresa May (I thought she was okay) I don't believe they will elect another woman for a long time.
    I think there is a deep set Tory desire for a second Thatcher. It was both a benefit and a curse for May. Instagram Liz clearly sees herself in that mold even if no one else does. Morduant fits the spec rather better. Good value IMO.
    I think Mother Leadsom would have been a good PM. She was a competent Minister - Boris shouldn't have tossed her out but I suppose there was a major personality clash.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    On independence day, I will be in my friends’ spare room in Lisburn. Hope that’s enough to claim citizenship, given that Scottish citizenship is not going to happen in my lifetime, thanks to Sturgeon and her acolytes.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633

    Heathener said:

    Applicant said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Not Sunak nor Truss.

    Mordaunt looks a better bet.

    Definitely a value bet.
    I think this is pb at work. I really like Penny which for a leftie like me is saying something.

    And that's why I don't think she will get it. She's far too pleasant. Too much in touch with the common people. Too with it. Too savvy.

    This isn't me being snide. It's because the people who elect the next Conservative leader are 1. Tory MPs and 2. Conservative Members.

    If it was the public, or pb.com, very different story.

    Oh and tory MPs are pretty misogynistic. After what they deem the nightmare of Theresa May (I thought she was okay) I don't believe they will elect another woman for a long time.
    Frankly, you have no idea about the Conservative Party! We had a woman as Conservative leader in 1975. 47 years on, after two, the Labour Party still hasn't had one. You really want to talk misogyny in political parties?
    Not only have they not had one, but no woman has ever beaten any man in any Labour leadership election.

    It seems scarcely believable when put that way.
    Not when you look at the calibre of those involved.

    As a woman let me be the first to say that this shouldn't be about tokenism and I don't think it's the place of men to call out misogynism.

    I think Rachel Reeves looks a really good prospect. I personally really like Angela Rayner but she would be too gobby for the right wing media.

    Penny Mordaunt would make a great Labour leader in the Keir Starmer real politik.
    I have a small bet on Jess Phillips. I have no idea why.
    I think the next Labour leader will be female. Apart from Streeting (and it is a bit early for him) all the leading candidates are. Leaders tend to be chosen for what their predecessor lacked, and Jess has charisma. Worth a punt IMO.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    It's definitely an early contender for "Sports Commentator Noise of the Year 2022".
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    Regardless of what you think about @BorisJohnson, he has risen to the occasion at #MSC2022 with a clear & compelling message on Russia, democratic values & even the Indo-Pacific & Chinese coercion against Lithuania. Other leaders missed their opportunity to do so

    https://twitter.com/noahbarkin/status/1495009820314853377?s=21

    The UK government - and Opposition - have been robust on this

    Should we know Noah Barkin? A relative...a friend?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    edited February 2022

    It's definitely an early contender for "Sports Commentator Noise of the Year 2022".
    It was a truly momentous occasion. Spurs finally having some involvement in a title race.
  • Heathener said:

    Bit early to write off Rishi Sunak, methinks. Long-term anyway, as he's only 41 years old.

    Took Sir Anthony Eden about twenty years to advance from Foreign Secretary (first appointment) to Prime Minister.

    And RS reminds me of AE, though I am NOT attributing any of the latter's shortcomings to the former.

    The problem I think is the one William Hague had: wrong timing.

    Sunak's best chance was up until a fortnight ago.

    If Johnson survives until the GE, and loses, can you really see the tories regaining power after one term? I just don't see it. Not after holding the keys to Downing St since 2010. Sunak might become leader but he'll end up like William Hague, not that I think Sunak has anything like Hague's charisma.
    Timing helps, though I suspect really great leaders make their own time. Hague was something of an exception, though his big mistake was grabbing the job a bit early. Apart from that, there aren't that many people who would have been great PMs but we're thwarted by the political pendulum, are there? Perhaps Ken Clarke, but he was ruled out for other reasons. Maybe Dennis Healey.

    And that's what might thwart Sunak. Bright, industrious, affable. But does he have the Killer Instinct, or is he waiting for someone to give him a promotion because he deserves it? After Boris, a reduction of Killer Instinct might be a blessed relief, but it won't get Master Sunak the keys to No 10. Head Boy maybe, but not Prime Minister.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Nigelb said:

    May I congratulate myself.......

    But seriously on Russia/Ukraine I've tried following Mary Dejevsky on twitter. She's a former foreign correspondent for the Times after all. It is frankly bizarre. She states that the deployment of troops on the Ukraine border could equally be a defensive move rather than an offensive one, that we should stop trying to read Putin's mind and instead just believe what he tells us (he's a straightforward fellow!) and that he really is just concerned about the expansion of Nato to Russia's borders.

    There is the interesting point as to why Biden/Zelensky seem to differ so much on Russia's probability of attacking but the rest just seems barking mad.

    Appears to be a conspiracy theorist.

    https://twitter.com/marydejevsky/status/1495021870344769543
    Dear @AndrewGimson, beg to differ. #Skripals is one of most scandalous - & successful - disinfo exercises by @govUK…
    Her first argument against Russia's culpability is comically naive:

    Why would Russia risk its reputation so close to the World Cup, when it hoped to show a friendlier face to the world?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    Tres said:

    Endillion said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Not Sunak nor Truss.

    Mordaunt looks a better bet.

    Definitely a value bet.
    I think this is pb at work. I really like Penny which for a leftie like me is saying something.

    And that's why I don't think she will get it. She's far too pleasant. Too much in touch with the common people. Too with it. Too savvy.

    This isn't me being snide. It's because the people who elect the next Conservative leader are 1. Tory MPs and 2. Conservative Members.

    If it was the public, or pb.com, very different story.

    Oh and tory MPs are pretty misogynistic. After what they deem the nightmare of Theresa May (I thought she was okay) I don't believe they will elect another woman for a long time.
    You are aware that the misogynistic Tory MPs who got rid of Theresa May are the same* ones who appointed her in the first place, right?

    *more-or-less
    May would have been fine except she invited Johnson, Davis and Fox back into the fold.
    Putting Brexiteers in charge of Brexit was an interesting gambit. 2 of 3 were discredited by the process, and Johnson was a cap Foregn Secretary, but they shat all over her deal too.

    It would have been interesting if she had pursued a more bipartisan rather than sectarian approach. It may well have worked rather better.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,243
    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Not Sunak nor Truss.

    Mordaunt looks a better bet.

    Definitely a value bet.
    I think this is pb at work. I really like Penny which for a leftie like me is saying something.

    And that's why I don't think she will get it. She's far too pleasant. Too much in touch with the common people. Too with it. Too savvy.

    This isn't me being snide. It's because the people who elect the next Conservative leader are 1. Tory MPs and 2. Conservative Members.

    If it was the public, or pb.com, very different story.

    Oh and tory MPs are pretty misogynistic. After what they deem the nightmare of Theresa May (I thought she was okay) I don't believe they will elect another woman for a long time.
    Before the first woman leader of the righteous and progressive Labour Party or not?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    One thing I was thinking today: if Russia does invade Ukraine, I'm expecting lots of videos of war crimes against civilians to rapidly be posted on social media by both sides. Some of these will be real, others will not.

    This will be one of the first wars which will be fought on the Internet and information channels as much as on the ground.

    Expect lots of talks of how the west 'poked' Russia into this.

    Which one was it where they were using bit of obscure WWII movies as propaganda of current events?
    I don't know.

    But I remember the time they used an image from a computer game as 'proof' that the US were helping ISIS:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41991012
  • Jesus fucking Christ.

    I had to read the bit in bold three times.

    On that day, with Britain deep in the pandemic, Lister, Johnson’s chief strategic adviser, spent an hour on Microsoft Teams, answering questions and addressing the concerns of donors.

    According to a source, board members — whose investments spanned property, construction and big tobacco — were alarmed by the effect of Covid-19 on their businesses.

    A number of those present requested swift action, including the relaxation of measures designed to stop transmission.

    Lister — whose salary was publicly funded, albeit secretly topped up by a Tory donor — was all ears, according to a witness. “It was implied that what we said would go straight up to the PM,” they said. “It was a two-way street. They gave us information on what was going on. We gave our advice.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-ultra-rich-tory-donors-with-access-to-boris-johnsons-top-team-96bvcwcxl
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ydoethur said:


    Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani


    Scottish nationalists want to join the EU, adopt Euro & be a part of NATO.

    All perfectly fine, of course, but what is the point of independence?

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1495111938291994625

    To piss off the English. HTH.

    *Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*

    It makes perfect sense to me.

    Could it simply be that the Corbyn Brexit fanboi Bastani doesn't understand a non-Leaver interpretation of sovereignty and independence within the EU.

    Bastani is twinned with JRM.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    Heathener said:

    Totally agree with Mike on this.

    Meanwhile, the other day I suggested that those British who wish to rejoin the EU might be best moving to Scotland, claiming Scottish citizenship (which at the moment isn't a thing) and waiting for independence, then for Scotland to vote to join the EU. As tortuous a route as summiting K2 in winter.

    There is another option and it really comes to the fore with this evening's comments by Sinn Fein deputy leader Michelle O'Neill. She's suggesting that the Irish gov't prepares for a united Ireland. She sees it as the consequence of [Boris' ridiculous] Irish sea issue. This raises the intriguing prospect that to become an EU citizen anyone in Britain might not need to claim Irish ancestry as at present but simply to be in the right place at the right time viz a viz the current Northern Ireland. Wow.

    https://news.sky.com/story/sinn-fein-deputy-leader-michelle-oneill-urges-irish-government-to-prepare-for-a-united-ireland-12545895

    The Common Travel Area means that every British citizen has the right to live and work in Ireland. You qualify for Irish citizenship after six years. Three if you're married to an Irish citizen.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:


    Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani


    Scottish nationalists want to join the EU, adopt Euro & be a part of NATO.

    All perfectly fine, of course, but what is the point of independence?

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1495111938291994625

    To piss off the English. HTH.

    *Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*

    It makes perfect sense to me.

    Could it simply be that the Corbyn Brexit fanboi Bastani doesn't understand a non-Leaver interpretation of sovereignty and independence within the EU.

    Bastani is twinned with JRM.
    He voted Remain in the end

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/why-ive-changed-my-mind-on-brexit/

    Or at least, he says he did. Should be noted Dr Aaron Peters is not the most reliable source in the universe.
  • This False Flag attack is going so well….

    Ukrainian interior minister and military officials come under shelling attack during tour of frontline of the separatist conflict in eastern Ukraine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10530887/Ukrainian-interior-minister-comes-shelling-attack-tour-frontline-east-Ukraine.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,243


    Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani


    Scottish nationalists want to join the EU, adopt Euro & be a part of NATO.

    All perfectly fine, of course, but what is the point of independence?

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1495111938291994625

    Reposting that Bastani dumbo Scottish tweet day comes round earlier every year.




    He was leader wasn’t he? There have been so many and all pretty anonymous.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:


    Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani


    Scottish nationalists want to join the EU, adopt Euro & be a part of NATO.

    All perfectly fine, of course, but what is the point of independence?

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1495111938291994625

    To piss off the English. HTH.

    *Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*

    It makes perfect sense to me.

    Could it simply be that the Corbyn Brexit fanboi Bastani doesn't understand a non-Leaver interpretation of sovereignty and independence within the EU.

    Bastani is twinned with JRM.
    He voted Remain in the end

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/why-ive-changed-my-mind-on-brexit/

    Or at least, he says he did. Should be noted Dr Aaron Peters is not the most reliable source in the universe.
    Alleged Brexit Manchurian Corbyn said much the same thing as I recall.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    This False Flag attack is going so well….

    Ukrainian interior minister and military officials come under shelling attack during tour of frontline of the separatist conflict in eastern Ukraine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10530887/Ukrainian-interior-minister-comes-shelling-attack-tour-frontline-east-Ukraine.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline

    It only has to fool 51% of Russians, Jeremy Corbyn and Luckyguy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:


    Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani


    Scottish nationalists want to join the EU, adopt Euro & be a part of NATO.

    All perfectly fine, of course, but what is the point of independence?

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1495111938291994625

    To piss off the English. HTH.

    *Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*

    It makes perfect sense to me.

    Could it simply be that the Corbyn Brexit fanboi Bastani doesn't understand a non-Leaver interpretation of sovereignty and independence within the EU.

    Bastani is twinned with JRM.
    He voted Remain in the end

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/why-ive-changed-my-mind-on-brexit/

    Or at least, he says he did. Should be noted Dr Aaron Peters is not the most reliable source in the universe.
    Alleged Brexit Manchurian Corbyn said much the same thing as I recall.
    Corbyn's made a Korea out of saying things his audience wants to hear,
  • Roger said:

    Regardless of what you think about @BorisJohnson, he has risen to the occasion at #MSC2022 with a clear & compelling message on Russia, democratic values & even the Indo-Pacific & Chinese coercion against Lithuania. Other leaders missed their opportunity to do so

    https://twitter.com/noahbarkin/status/1495009820314853377?s=21

    The UK government - and Opposition - have been robust on this

    Should we know Noah Barkin? A relative...a friend?
    You could check his bio - or who among his 21,000 followers you rate:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/noahbarkin/followers_you_follow
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,243

    Jesus fucking Christ.

    I had to read the bit in bold three times.

    On that day, with Britain deep in the pandemic, Lister, Johnson’s chief strategic adviser, spent an hour on Microsoft Teams, answering questions and addressing the concerns of donors.

    According to a source, board members — whose investments spanned property, construction and big tobacco — were alarmed by the effect of Covid-19 on their businesses.

    A number of those present requested swift action, including the relaxation of measures designed to stop transmission.

    Lister — whose salary was publicly funded, albeit secretly topped up by a Tory donor — was all ears, according to a witness. “It was implied that what we said would go straight up to the PM,” they said. “It was a two-way street. They gave us information on what was going on. We gave our advice.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-ultra-rich-tory-donors-with-access-to-boris-johnsons-top-team-96bvcwcxl

    That’s been public knowledge since he was appointed.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Cicero said:

    The Estonian PM is back in Tallinn from Munich, where she and the other Baltic leaders met with Kamela Harris and seem to have been given a briefing on why the US beleives that Russia still intends to launch an attack against Ukraine. More to the point the US and the UK have given a complete pledge to back Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia with full military measures, should the conflict spill over in our direction. I would say that the mood in Tallinn is fairly fatalist, although there is some relief that the promised British troops are finally on their way. It does seem that the last 24 hours has ramped up the risk of a Russian invasion in Ukraine quite a bit but Estonians are equally concerned about some other unexpected move from the Kremlin. As others have noted here, these are not ideal circumstances for a successful invasion and it is quite clear that NATO has a full intelligence read out on the current order of battle. Ukrainian troops are taking some punishment at the line of contact with the green men and Russian forces but for the moment it seems that Russia is still holding off on the final go/no go decision.

    I still think Putin would be making a possibly fatal mistake and that the Ukrainian army is capable of inflicting severe damage on the invading forces. Any occupation will be fiercely resisted and I am not even sure that Russia can rely on air superiority, given the large numbers of anti aircraft and drone weapons that Ukraine clearly posesses. The Estonians are suggesting that the crisis could last quite a long time if the war becomes a deadlock. Under those circumstances then the situation could get very dangerous indeed. We take refuge in rather black humour, but the prospect of another Russian occupation of the Baltic, when the last one killed a third of the population, is not something that any of us take lightly.

    NATO, including British, troops would be better placed, in my view, stationed in the Baltic states than near Ukraine. Northern Estonia, with naval support threatening St. Petersburg, blockading Russian exit to the Baltic, would show intent of retaliation if Russia invaded Ukraine.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    edited February 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Yokes said:

    Few things of note:

    There seems to be a lot of rumours of the supposed Ukrainian offensive against the breakaway republics starting tonight. This of course ignores the fact the Ukrainians have had some years to do this and haven't, and probably wouldn't anyway. As it is, yet another mark in the column of excuses for Russia to justify an attack.

    Perhaps more concerning, plenty of pictures of Russian military vehicles sporting IFF motifs. For the uninitiated, these markings help make sure you can identify your forces from the enemy. Especially useful when you have a lot of kit in common.

    Finally, the stories are that the US has prepped to support some kind of Ukrainian insurgency. This assumes a) an attack which Russia clearly has in the options and is certainly positioned to do and b) that any attack is a Day-1 full scale invasion of all of Ukraine, which as yet I wouldn't quite be so confident will necessarily be the case, even though all the tools are in place.

    And remember, as I mentioned nearly couple of weeks ago, Sundays are always days to watch.

    Also worth remembering Russia is running out of time before the frozen ground becomes mud.
    Also natural gas demand is quite seasonal. As we get into March, European demand for gas falls quite quickly.
    Just coming back to this point, I do wonder if Putin has missed his chance for this year. An attack in late November, early December would have been as natural gas demands for both heating and power were rising sharply in Europe. There would have been real pain in replacing the flow of Russian natural gas.

    But storage in Europe is pretty much at peak levels (which is very rare for this time of year), demand is falling as it warms up, and solar is going to start kicking in on the electricity supply side.

    The medium term outlook for gas is also ameliorating. The US rig count is really starting to motor now (quicker than I'd expected, for sure), and if it continues then there will be a lot of spot cargoes coming out of the US this year.

    Cutting off the supply of Russian gas in early winter is basically impossible. Cutting it off in March on the other hand, especially if you can secure a few tens of LNG cargoes, and suddenly it doesn't look quite so frightening. And we're only two years away from Mozambique LNG and Qatargas extensions - which will further weaken Russia's position.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    edited February 2022
    ..
  • Heathener said:

    Sunak is in charge of the most tax greedy Exchequer of all time. The right (ie tories who decide who their leader is )dont like this and as for voters ,well even if you buy the argument that taxes need to rise , then raising National insurance was the most unfair tax to rise - The tories were right when they said NI was a tax on jobs (and labour) ,its a pity Sunak has ignored that message 15 years on. Also the level of fraud on furlough schemes, eat out to help out , SEISS grants is literally criminal

    Totally agree.

    The fissure within Conservative economic policy beggars belief. I don't like blaming Carrie for things but some of this does go back to her: quasi left-wing very green policies which sit at odds with the right wing conservative laissez-faire approach. But this must also be in large measure because Boris Johnson himself not only has no moral compass, but for Conservatives far more importantly he has no political compass. He's all over the bloody shop. There is no defining vision or ethos, nothing that coheres.

    So we end up with a massive contradiction of policies, a spendthrift Gov't which would have made even Labour eyes water coupled with huge tax rises.

    If this massive Tax and Spend had come from Jim Callaghan, Harold Wilson or that dreadful Jeremy Corbyn the press would have hounded them out of office.
    Don't blame Carrie. Blame Jeremy Corbyn. Labour came unexpectedly close in 2017 and CCHQ pinched the popular bits for 2019. Even without Covid, and even without Net Zero, the government intended to spend (or invest) a great deal of money and any Conservative backbencher surprised by this needs to give their head a wobble.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    I think Sunak has lost his chance. Boris will survive until 2024, if not beyond. The next Conservative leader may well not be one of the current challengers. I would put money on someone like @Tissue_Price before Rishi Sunak or Liz Truss. As well as @Tissue_Price, I would place a small bet on Ruth Davidson and Tom Tugendhat.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    MattW said:

    Ian Lavery, MP:


    "I've got a degree from the university of National Union of Mine Workers in unity and in solidarity. That does me."

    https://twitter.com/ucu/status/1494770858493157382

    Is he also up for defenestration?
    He came very close to losing last time. Blyth and Ashington however looks an easier hold.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    You can add Plaid Cymru to the coalition of the willing!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-60448384
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931


    Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani


    Scottish nationalists want to join the EU, adopt Euro & be a part of NATO.

    All perfectly fine, of course, but what is the point of independence?

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1495111938291994625

    Reposting that Bastani dumbo Scottish tweet day comes round earlier every year.




    He was leader wasn’t he? There have been so many and all pretty anonymous.
    I expect the next Scottish election results, both Holyrood and Westminster, to not be dissimilar to that.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:


    Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani


    Scottish nationalists want to join the EU, adopt Euro & be a part of NATO.

    All perfectly fine, of course, but what is the point of independence?

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1495111938291994625

    To piss off the English. HTH.

    *Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*

    It makes perfect sense to me.

    Could it simply be that the Corbyn Brexit fanboi Bastani doesn't understand a non-Leaver interpretation of sovereignty and independence within the EU.

    Bastani is twinned with JRM.
    He voted Remain in the end

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/why-ive-changed-my-mind-on-brexit/

    Or at least, he says he did. Should be noted Dr Aaron Peters is not the most reliable source in the universe.
    Alleged Brexit Manchurian Corbyn said much the same thing as I recall.
    Corbyn's made a Korea out of saying things his audience wants to hear,
    You've got no Seoul!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:


    Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani


    Scottish nationalists want to join the EU, adopt Euro & be a part of NATO.

    All perfectly fine, of course, but what is the point of independence?

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1495111938291994625

    To piss off the English. HTH.

    *Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*

    It makes perfect sense to me.

    Could it simply be that the Corbyn Brexit fanboi Bastani doesn't understand a non-Leaver interpretation of sovereignty and independence within the EU.

    Bastani is twinned with JRM.
    He voted Remain in the end

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/why-ive-changed-my-mind-on-brexit/

    Or at least, he says he did. Should be noted Dr Aaron Peters is not the most reliable source in the universe.
    Alleged Brexit Manchurian Corbyn said much the same thing as I recall.
    Corbyn's made a Korea out of saying things his audience wants to hear,
    You've got no Seoul!
    I deny that. As a Pusan of course I have a Seoul.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:


    Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani


    Scottish nationalists want to join the EU, adopt Euro & be a part of NATO.

    All perfectly fine, of course, but what is the point of independence?

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1495111938291994625

    To piss off the English. HTH.

    *Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*

    It makes perfect sense to me.

    Could it simply be that the Corbyn Brexit fanboi Bastani doesn't understand a non-Leaver interpretation of sovereignty and independence within the EU.

    Bastani is twinned with JRM.
    He voted Remain in the end

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/why-ive-changed-my-mind-on-brexit/

    Or at least, he says he did. Should be noted Dr Aaron Peters is not the most reliable source in the universe.
    Alleged Brexit Manchurian Corbyn said much the same thing as I recall.
    Corbyn's made a Korea out of saying things his audience wants to hear,
    You've got no Seoul!
    I deny that. As a Pusan of course I have a Seoul.
    Sunil's observation was indeed Jeju ne.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:


    Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani


    Scottish nationalists want to join the EU, adopt Euro & be a part of NATO.

    All perfectly fine, of course, but what is the point of independence?

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1495111938291994625

    To piss off the English. HTH.

    *Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*

    It makes perfect sense to me.

    Could it simply be that the Corbyn Brexit fanboi Bastani doesn't understand a non-Leaver interpretation of sovereignty and independence within the EU.

    Bastani is twinned with JRM.
    He voted Remain in the end

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/why-ive-changed-my-mind-on-brexit/

    Or at least, he says he did. Should be noted Dr Aaron Peters is not the most reliable source in the universe.
    Alleged Brexit Manchurian Corbyn said much the same thing as I recall.
    Corbyn's made a Korea out of saying things his audience wants to hear,
    That’s why he’s a Supreme Leader.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:


    Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani


    Scottish nationalists want to join the EU, adopt Euro & be a part of NATO.

    All perfectly fine, of course, but what is the point of independence?

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1495111938291994625

    To piss off the English. HTH.

    *Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*

    It makes perfect sense to me.

    Could it simply be that the Corbyn Brexit fanboi Bastani doesn't understand a non-Leaver interpretation of sovereignty and independence within the EU.

    Bastani is twinned with JRM.
    He voted Remain in the end

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/why-ive-changed-my-mind-on-brexit/

    Or at least, he says he did. Should be noted Dr Aaron Peters is not the most reliable source in the universe.
    Alleged Brexit Manchurian Corbyn said much the same thing as I recall.
    Corbyn's made a Korea out of saying things his audience wants to hear,
    You've got no Seoul!
    I deny that. As a Pusan of course I have a Seoul.
    Sunil's observation was indeed Jeju ne.
    You're Inchon towards a decent pun there, but you don't quite make it.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Heathener said:

    Totally agree with Mike on this.

    Meanwhile, the other day I suggested that those British who wish to rejoin the EU might be best moving to Scotland, claiming Scottish citizenship (which at the moment isn't a thing) and waiting for independence, then for Scotland to vote to join the EU. As tortuous a route as summiting K2 in winter.

    There is another option and it really comes to the fore with this evening's comments by Sinn Fein deputy leader Michelle O'Neill. She's suggesting that the Irish gov't prepares for a united Ireland. She sees it as the consequence of [Boris' ridiculous] Irish sea issue. This raises the intriguing prospect that to become an EU citizen anyone in Britain might not need to claim Irish ancestry as at present but simply to be in the right place at the right time viz a viz the current Northern Ireland. Wow.

    https://news.sky.com/story/sinn-fein-deputy-leader-michelle-oneill-urges-irish-government-to-prepare-for-a-united-ireland-12545895

    The Common Travel Area means that every British citizen has the right to live and work in Ireland. You qualify for Irish citizenship after six years. Three if you're married to an Irish citizen.
    Moving to another part of the UK in pursuit of EU citizenship is a drastic step. Especially as such future rights are only hypothetical, and not certain or even remotely guaranteed. It just won't even occur to anything but a tiny group of people.
  • Cicero said:

    The Estonian PM is back in Tallinn from Munich, where she and the other Baltic leaders met with Kamela Harris and seem to have been given a briefing on why the US beleives that Russia still intends to launch an attack against Ukraine. More to the point the US and the UK have given a complete pledge to back Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia with full military measures, should the conflict spill over in our direction. I would say that the mood in Tallinn is fairly fatalist, although there is some relief that the promised British troops are finally on their way. It does seem that the last 24 hours has ramped up the risk of a Russian invasion in Ukraine quite a bit but Estonians are equally concerned about some other unexpected move from the Kremlin. As others have noted here, these are not ideal circumstances for a successful invasion and it is quite clear that NATO has a full intelligence read out on the current order of battle. Ukrainian troops are taking some punishment at the line of contact with the green men and Russian forces but for the moment it seems that Russia is still holding off on the final go/no go decision.

    I still think Putin would be making a possibly fatal mistake and that the Ukrainian army is capable of inflicting severe damage on the invading forces. Any occupation will be fiercely resisted and I am not even sure that Russia can rely on air superiority, given the large numbers of anti aircraft and drone weapons that Ukraine clearly posesses. The Estonians are suggesting that the crisis could last quite a long time if the war becomes a deadlock. Under those circumstances then the situation could get very dangerous indeed. We take refuge in rather black humour, but the prospect of another Russian occupation of the Baltic, when the last one killed a third of the population, is not something that any of us take lightly.

    NATO, including British, troops would be better placed, in my view, stationed in the Baltic states than near Ukraine. Northern Estonia, with naval support threatening St. Petersburg, blockading Russian exit to the Baltic, would show intent of retaliation if Russia invaded Ukraine.
    British tanks "almost" reached St Petersburg in 1919....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_campaign_in_the_Baltic_(1918–1919)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802


    Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani


    Scottish nationalists want to join the EU, adopt Euro & be a part of NATO.

    All perfectly fine, of course, but what is the point of independence?

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1495111938291994625

    Reposting that Bastani dumbo Scottish tweet day comes round earlier every year.




    He was leader wasn’t he? There have been so many and all pretty anonymous.
    I expect the next Scottish election results, both Holyrood and Westminster, to not be dissimilar to that.
    That would be a ~14 point drop for the SNP. Seems unlikely.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:


    Aaron Bastani @AaronBastani


    Scottish nationalists want to join the EU, adopt Euro & be a part of NATO.

    All perfectly fine, of course, but what is the point of independence?

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1495111938291994625

    To piss off the English. HTH.

    *Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*

    It makes perfect sense to me.

    Could it simply be that the Corbyn Brexit fanboi Bastani doesn't understand a non-Leaver interpretation of sovereignty and independence within the EU.

    Bastani is twinned with JRM.
    He voted Remain in the end

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/why-ive-changed-my-mind-on-brexit/

    Or at least, he says he did. Should be noted Dr Aaron Peters is not the most reliable source in the universe.
    Alleged Brexit Manchurian Corbyn said much the same thing as I recall.
    Corbyn's made a Korea out of saying things his audience wants to hear,
    You've got no Seoul!
    I deny that. As a Pusan of course I have a Seoul.
    Sunil's observation was indeed Jeju ne.
    You're Inchon towards a decent pun there, but you don't quite make it.
    While for you it’s just a walk in the Park.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Yokes said:

    Few things of note:

    There seems to be a lot of rumours of the supposed Ukrainian offensive against the breakaway republics starting tonight. This of course ignores the fact the Ukrainians have had some years to do this and haven't, and probably wouldn't anyway. As it is, yet another mark in the column of excuses for Russia to justify an attack.

    Perhaps more concerning, plenty of pictures of Russian military vehicles sporting IFF motifs. For the uninitiated, these markings help make sure you can identify your forces from the enemy. Especially useful when you have a lot of kit in common.

    Finally, the stories are that the US has prepped to support some kind of Ukrainian insurgency. This assumes a) an attack which Russia clearly has in the options and is certainly positioned to do and b) that any attack is a Day-1 full scale invasion of all of Ukraine, which as yet I wouldn't quite be so confident will necessarily be the case, even though all the tools are in place.

    And remember, as I mentioned nearly couple of weeks ago, Sundays are always days to watch.

    Also worth remembering Russia is running out of time before the frozen ground becomes mud.
    Also natural gas demand is quite seasonal. As we get into March, European demand for gas falls quite quickly.
    Just coming back to this point, I do wonder if Putin has missed his chance for this year. An attack in late November, early December would have been as natural gas demands for both heating and power were rising sharply in Europe. There would have been real pain in replacing the flow of Russian natural gas.

    But storage in Europe is pretty much at peak levels (which is very rare for this time of year), demand is falling as it warms up, and solar is going to start kicking in on the electricity supply side.

    The medium term outlook for gas is also ameliorating. The US rig count is really starting to motor now (quicker than I'd expected, for sure), and if it continues then there will be a lot of spot cargoes coming out of the US this year.

    Cutting off the supply of Russian gas in early winter is basically impossible. Cutting it off in March on the other hand, especially if you can secure a few tens of LNG cargoes, and suddenly it doesn't look quite so frightening. And we're only two years away from Mozambique LNG and Qatargas extensions - which will further weaken Russia's position.
    On another point, there might be an energy-related issue to do with Storm Eunice. One of three chimneys at a 1.2GW power station on the Isle of Grain collapsed during the storm. This potentially put one of the three units out of use for months - not just because of the lack of the chimney, but also because of the place it landed.

    One unit out of three at one power station would not be a problem. Except several other power stations have similar chimneys, and there's a non-negligible chance that there's a flaw that might take them all out of commission for a period whilst they are altered or replaced.

    https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/storm-eunice-isle-grain-power-6685526
This discussion has been closed.