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Labour reaches new high with Savanta Comres – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,697
edited February 2022 in General
Labour reaches new high with Savanta Comres – politicalbetting.com

?NEW Westminster Voting Intention?11pt lead for Labour?Con 33 (+1)?Lab 44 (+4)?LDM 9 (-2)?Grn 3 (-1)??SNP 4 (-1)??Other 8 (=)2,283 UK adults, 28-30 Jan(Changes from 21-23 Jan) pic.twitter.com/oAABJZPiEM

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    WOW
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    FPT

    Conservative Party MPs can initiate a no confidence vote in the leader when 15% (54 MPs) of Conservative MPs write to the chair of the party’s 1922 Committee (a committee representing backbench Conservative MPs).

    The no confidence vote is then scheduled by the chair in consultation with the party leader. MPs then vote in support or against the leader. This can happen quickly. For example, the no confidence vote in Theresa May was held on 12 December 2018, the day after she was informed that the 15% threshold had been reached. May needed 159 MPs to support her to stay in office, and won the vote by 200 to 117.

    Under current rules, if more than 50% of all Conservative MPs (181 MPs) vote in support of the prime minister, they can stay as party leader and prime minister and no new vote can be triggered for 12 months.

    If the leader lost the confidence vote among Conservative MPs, they would not be able to stand again – allowing any other Conservative MP to stand for the party leadership.

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/conservative-party-leadership-contests

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    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/
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    The header is a complete mess on Vanilla.
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,176
    I’m starting to think that Thursday’s Southend West by-election could be bad for the Tories even though LAB/LD/GRN do not have candidates.

    Is the MRLP running?
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    Crikey.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    geoffw said:

    I’m starting to think that Thursday’s Southend West by-election could be bad for the Tories even though LAB/LD/GRN do not have candidates.

    Is the MRLP running?

    Yes, and as the incumbents without serious opposition they should still win.
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    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

    @HYUFD has lost all creditability and needs to accept yet again he is wrong

    It is tedious having to say this every day
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,796

    The header is a complete mess on Vanilla.

    Just the way @MikeSmithson thinks.. :)
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    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

    @HYUFD has lost all creditability and needs to accept yet again he is wrong

    It is tedious having to say this every day
    who does he remind you of?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,100

    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

    I have just read the rules. They say a leader who resigns cannot stand again. Boris will not resign even if he loses a VONC, he is as stubborn as Corbyn and Trump and will use every trick possible to keep the leadership until no alternative
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,082

    FPT

    Conservative Party MPs can initiate a no confidence vote in the leader when 15% (54 MPs) of Conservative MPs write to the chair of the party’s 1922 Committee (a committee representing backbench Conservative MPs).

    The no confidence vote is then scheduled by the chair in consultation with the party leader. MPs then vote in support or against the leader. This can happen quickly. For example, the no confidence vote in Theresa May was held on 12 December 2018, the day after she was informed that the 15% threshold had been reached. May needed 159 MPs to support her to stay in office, and won the vote by 200 to 117.

    Under current rules, if more than 50% of all Conservative MPs (181 MPs) vote in support of the prime minister, they can stay as party leader and prime minister and no new vote can be triggered for 12 months.

    If the leader lost the confidence vote among Conservative MPs, they would not be able to stand again – allowing any other Conservative MP to stand for the party leadership.

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/conservative-party-leadership-contests

    @HYUFD is contesting this on the last thread. But he’s forget in the beauty that is the unwritten constitution the institute of government’s role is analogous to Bagehot
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334

    FPT

    Conservative Party MPs can initiate a no confidence vote in the leader when 15% (54 MPs) of Conservative MPs write to the chair of the party’s 1922 Committee (a committee representing backbench Conservative MPs).

    The no confidence vote is then scheduled by the chair in consultation with the party leader. MPs then vote in support or against the leader. This can happen quickly. For example, the no confidence vote in Theresa May was held on 12 December 2018, the day after she was informed that the 15% threshold had been reached. May needed 159 MPs to support her to stay in office, and won the vote by 200 to 117.

    Under current rules, if more than 50% of all Conservative MPs (181 MPs) vote in support of the prime minister, they can stay as party leader and prime minister and no new vote can be triggered for 12 months.

    If the leader lost the confidence vote among Conservative MPs, they would not be able to stand again – allowing any other Conservative MP to stand for the party leadership.

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/conservative-party-leadership-contests

    One thing that does puzzle me - notwithstanding this, because as I explained the process seems to be 'you resign if you lose a confidence vote, and leaders who resign can't now stand again' - is where the rules on a VONC are actually set out. Are they in the proceedings of the 1922 Committee or something? Because they're not in the party Constitution and I can't find them written down anywhere in an official Conservative source. Everyone just seems to know what they are.

    Not just a theoretical point, I'm teaching about this in a week or so!

    Any guidance gratefully received.
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    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,872
    Do you think a Dom Bomb is about to drop..?

    He’s just tweeted “He's finished. 'Push what is falling'”
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    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

    What happens if the leader in that situation doesn't resign? The party constitution is silent on the matter of VONCs, the rules of which therefore are presumably just decided by the 1922 Committee.
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    HYUFD said:

    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

    I have just read the rules. They say a leader who resigns cannot stand again. Boris will not resign even if he loses a VONC, he is as stubborn as Corbyn and Trump and will use every trick possible to keep the leadership until no alternative
    There's a different research briefing on VOCs.

    So the Institute of Government and Full Fact know better than you.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,947
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even if Boris loses a VONC amongst MPs, loyalists say he would fight a subsequent leadership election. If he gets enough support still from loyalist MPs to get to the final two, a la Corbyn 2016 he would then let Tory members decide

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1488594714899144718?s=20&t=F5MeBLxuJfxsD7jkw6tCHQ

    He can't. The rules are, and I quote

    'A Leader resigning from the Leadership of the Party is not eligible for re-nomination in the consequent Leadership election.'

    Schedule 2, rule 2, page 18. Put in to stop anyone else doing a Major.

    That is also held to apply to leaders removed by a VONC as Iain Duncan Smith found out.

    Of course, he would face utter humiliation if he did, a la Thatcher, so it would be funny to watch, but it can't happen.
    Do you have a link please?
    https://public.conservatives.com/organisation-department/202101/Conservative Party Constitution as amended January 2021.pdf
    It says, at Schedule 2 1 that a leader who resigns is unable to make a re application to be party leader in a leadership election.

    No explicit reference to a leader who loses a VONC though
    Technically a leader who loses a vote of no confidence resigns, just as a PM who loses an election does so.

    However, interestingly I can't see anywhere it sets out the rules for a confidence motion. So it may be more ad hoc than that.

    Equally, I cannot imagine that Graham Brady would accept a nomination for somebody who lost a VONC as valid even if Johnson tried to stand again.
    Boris is as stubborn as Corbyn and Trump, he won't resign unless he has used every trick available to try and keep the leadership.

    If Brady tries and blocks him standing again could we even see Boris loyalists try and storm the 1922 cttee?
    I'm assuming the second paragraph is comedy, but regardless of that, does someone as stubborn as Corbyn or Trump sound like the right kind of person to lead a political party?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    HYUFD said:

    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

    I have just read the rules. They say a leader who resigns cannot stand again. Boris will not resign even if he loses a VONC, he is as stubborn as Corbyn and Trump and will use every trick possible to keep the leadership until no alternative
    He doesn't have a choice!
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    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    I’m starting to think that Thursday’s Southend West by-election could be bad for the Tories even though LAB/LD/GRN do not have candidates.

    Is the MRLP running?

    Yes, and as the incumbents without serious opposition they should still win.
    Postal votes will already be in
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,100
    geoffw said:

    I’m starting to think that Thursday’s Southend West by-election could be bad for the Tories even though LAB/LD/GRN do not have candidates.

    Is the MRLP running?

    I think UKIP could get 30% even if the Tories should still hold it
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,282
    edited February 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

    I have just read the rules. They say a leader who resigns cannot stand again. Boris will not resign even if he loses a VONC, he is as stubborn as Corbyn and Trump and will use every trick possible to keep the leadership until no alternative
    A coup d'etat?

    Call in the tanks.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,947
    The gap is impressive, as is getting into the mid 40s. It's not merely been support draining away from the Tories.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    Interesting that the LibDems are losing support, rather than benefiting from Boris's woes.
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    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Conservative Party MPs can initiate a no confidence vote in the leader when 15% (54 MPs) of Conservative MPs write to the chair of the party’s 1922 Committee (a committee representing backbench Conservative MPs).

    The no confidence vote is then scheduled by the chair in consultation with the party leader. MPs then vote in support or against the leader. This can happen quickly. For example, the no confidence vote in Theresa May was held on 12 December 2018, the day after she was informed that the 15% threshold had been reached. May needed 159 MPs to support her to stay in office, and won the vote by 200 to 117.

    Under current rules, if more than 50% of all Conservative MPs (181 MPs) vote in support of the prime minister, they can stay as party leader and prime minister and no new vote can be triggered for 12 months.

    If the leader lost the confidence vote among Conservative MPs, they would not be able to stand again – allowing any other Conservative MP to stand for the party leadership.

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/conservative-party-leadership-contests

    One thing that does puzzle me - notwithstanding this, because as I explained the process seems to be 'you resign if you lose a confidence vote, and leaders who resign can't now stand again' - is where the rules on a VONC are actually set out. Are they in the proceedings of the 1922 Committee or something? Because they're not in the party Constitution and I can't find them written down anywhere in an official Conservative source. Everyone just seems to know what they are.

    Not just a theoretical point, I'm teaching about this in a week or so!

    Any guidance gratefully received.
    I've asked Lord Hague for his papers, he wrote the original rules, and one of his staffers says the rules say losing a VONC prevents you standing again.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,796
    HYUFD said:

    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

    I have just read the rules. They say a leader who resigns cannot stand again. Boris will not resign even if he loses a VONC, he is as stubborn as Corbyn and Trump and will use every trick possible to keep the leadership until no alternative
    "They say a leader who resigns cannot stand again"

    Just at the ensuing election I believe.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,347
    edited February 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

    I have just read the rules. They say a leader who resigns cannot stand again. Boris will not resign even if he loses a VONC, he is as stubborn as Corbyn and Trump and will use every trick possible to keep the leadership until no alternative
    You are simply a disgrace to the conservative party

    You will be suggesting he storms the 1922 next - whoops you have

    Shame on you
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,521
    edited February 2022

    WOW

    Why "Websevices On Websphere" ?
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    @HYUFD please explain
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,095
    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson was in the Downing St flat the night of the ‘Abba music’ event being investigated by police for potential Covid rule breaches.

    With @HarryYorke1. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/01/boris-johnson-downing-street-flat-night-abba-themed-party-held/
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,325
    HYUFD said:

    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

    I have just read the rules. They say a leader who resigns cannot stand again. Boris will not resign even if he loses a VONC, he is as stubborn as Corbyn and Trump and will use every trick possible to keep the leadership until no alternative
    You’re really selling him to us, there
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    I'm just thinking of Sir Sion Trefor, or John Trevor, the last speaker to be fired before Martin in I think 1695. He refused to turn up for the vote when he was due to be evicted, claiming he was ill. He was hoping that would mean the House couldn't sit. But they just elected a new speaker anyway and carried on.

    Similarly, if Johnson decided to sulk Brady would just ignore him and hold a vote anyway, then the House of Commons would vote in his successor.

    The Trump option doesn't work here.
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    WOW

    @bigjohnowls please explain
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    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,872
    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson was in the Downing St flat the night of the ‘Abba music’ event being investigated by police for potential Covid rule breaches.

    With @HarryYorke1. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/01/boris-johnson-downing-street-flat-night-abba-themed-party-held/

    Classic Dom.

    I’m playing the world’s smallest violin for Boris right now.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554
    edited February 2022

    WOW

    Why "Websevices On W ebsphere" ?
    World of Warcraft.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson was in the Downing St flat the night of the ‘Abba music’ event being investigated by police for potential Covid rule breaches.

    With @HarryYorke1. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/01/boris-johnson-downing-street-flat-night-abba-themed-party-held/

    Raise our glass, one more toast, and then we'll pay the bill - neither you nor I'm to blame when all is said and done.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited February 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

    I have just read the rules. They say a leader who resigns cannot stand again. Boris will not resign even if he loses a VONC, he is as stubborn as Corbyn and Trump and will use every trick possible to keep the leadership until no alternative
    Do they?

    "Background information

    A leadership contest can be triggered in two ways:

    If 15% of Conservative MPs write to the Chairman of the 1922 Committee saying they no longer have confidence in the leader of the Conservative Party, orif the current leader resigns.

    A leader losing the confidence of the Parliamentary party is not allowed to participate in the resulting leadership election."

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01366/

    If that is correct, then it *is* on the face of it still possible to do a Major, but conversely if bj is vonced he is out and can't stand again, no requirement for him to resign
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,100

    HYUFD said:

    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

    I have just read the rules. They say a leader who resigns cannot stand again. Boris will not resign even if he loses a VONC, he is as stubborn as Corbyn and Trump and will use every trick possible to keep the leadership until no alternative
    You are simply a disgrace to the conservative party

    You will be suggesting he storming 1922 next - whoops you have

    Shame on you
    Note I did not suggest, I queried 'would we see'
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554
    edited February 2022
    Boris Johnson attended a prosecco-fuelled leaving do for a No 10 aide during the strict post-Christmas lockdown, which is now under police investigation, the Guardian has learned.

    Sue Gray’s investigation into lockdown parties this week revealed several events that had not previously been publicised, including a gathering on 14 January 2021 “on the departure of two No 10 private secretaries”. But the redacted report revealed no further details.

    Sources said the event was held in Downing Street in part as a leaving do for a senior policy adviser who is now a top civil servant working in the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.

    Prosecco is alleged to have been drunk by some staff, with Johnson understood to have given a speech thanking the official for their work and staying for around five minutes.

    England’s third national Covid lockdown came into force just over a week earlier, on 6 January, with a “stay at home” order banning people from leaving their home except for a handful of reasons including where it was not possible to work from home. The previous month, the prime minister had effectively cancelled Christmas for millions of people amid surging Covid cases.

    The revelation places Johnson at another event under investigation by Scotland Yard.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/01/boris-johnson-attended-leaving-do-during-strict-january-lockdown
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Conservative Party MPs can initiate a no confidence vote in the leader when 15% (54 MPs) of Conservative MPs write to the chair of the party’s 1922 Committee (a committee representing backbench Conservative MPs).

    The no confidence vote is then scheduled by the chair in consultation with the party leader. MPs then vote in support or against the leader. This can happen quickly. For example, the no confidence vote in Theresa May was held on 12 December 2018, the day after she was informed that the 15% threshold had been reached. May needed 159 MPs to support her to stay in office, and won the vote by 200 to 117.

    Under current rules, if more than 50% of all Conservative MPs (181 MPs) vote in support of the prime minister, they can stay as party leader and prime minister and no new vote can be triggered for 12 months.

    If the leader lost the confidence vote among Conservative MPs, they would not be able to stand again – allowing any other Conservative MP to stand for the party leadership.

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/conservative-party-leadership-contests

    One thing that does puzzle me - notwithstanding this, because as I explained the process seems to be 'you resign if you lose a confidence vote, and leaders who resign can't now stand again' - is where the rules on a VONC are actually set out. Are they in the proceedings of the 1922 Committee or something? Because they're not in the party Constitution and I can't find them written down anywhere in an official Conservative source. Everyone just seems to know what they are.

    Not just a theoretical point, I'm teaching about this in a week or so!

    Any guidance gratefully received.
    I've asked Lord Hague for his papers, he wrote the original rules, and one of his staffers says the rules say losing a VONC prevents you standing again.
    Yes, but are they just in Hague's private papers? I mean - surely they should be written down elsewhere, somewhere official?
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson was in the Downing St flat the night of the ‘Abba music’ event being investigated by police for potential Covid rule breaches.

    With @HarryYorke1. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/01/boris-johnson-downing-street-flat-night-abba-themed-party-held/

    It did not cross my mind that he wasn't

    As I said yesterday the flat 'party' will finish him but better to do it now
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson was in the Downing St flat the night of the ‘Abba music’ event being investigated by police for potential Covid rule breaches.

    With @HarryYorke1. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/01/boris-johnson-downing-street-flat-night-abba-themed-party-held/

    Playing "Slipping through my fingers"?

    "Take a chance on me"?

    "SOS"?
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,530
    edited February 2022
    kle4 said:

    The gap is impressive, as is getting into the mid 40s. It's not merely been support draining away from the Tories.

    Success breeds confidence breeds more success. The opposite of the spiral Labour fell into during the first half of 2021. The fact that SKS kept buggering on and hauled that gap back before Paterson or Partygate happened was a good tell that there's something of the Knight about him.

    As for post-VONC Boris, if he tries to squat, don't those who voted against him just form their own block in Parliament until sense reigns again? A PM's mandate is being continually tested in a way that a US President's isn't. Ugly, sure, but it may come to that. A defeated Boris may well gnaw his limbs off and them claim he can't move.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,521

    WOW

    Why "Websevices On W ebsphere" ?
    World of Warcraft.
    So I looked online....

    Walker On Wheels
    Wealth Of Wonders
    Week Of Welcome
    Widening Our Welcome
    Wings Over Washington Kite Club
    Wisdom, Opportunity, and Wealth
    Wonderful Opportunities Worth
    Wonderful Owner's Working
    Wonderful, Overwhelming, and Wild
    Wondrous Outrageous Will
    Why Opportunity Works
    Widening Our World
    Work On Words
    World Of Wonder
    Write On Workshop
    Wafer On Wafer
    The World Of Wildlife
    What's On Waitakere
    Window On the World
    Word Of the Week
    Writing Our World
    Walk Over Walls
    Warrior Orientation Week
    Week Of War
    Winning Our World
    Woman Ordinance Worker
    Wider Opportunities for Women
    Wonders Of Wetlands
    Woodsmen Of the World
    Windows On Windows
    Walk On Wednesdays
    Washington Open Walkers
    Whipem Out Wednesdays
    White Oak Wonders
    Win On Win
    Winner Over Weight
    Winners On Wheels
    Woman On Water
    Women Of the Wall
    Women Of Wrestling
    Women On Wheels
    Wonders On Wheels
    Wordgames One Website
    World Of Wheels
    World Of Wrestling
    Wrestler Of the Week
    Watching Outstanding Wildcats
    Working On Wisdom
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,100
    edited February 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

    I have just read the rules. They say a leader who resigns cannot stand again. Boris will not resign even if he loses a VONC, he is as stubborn as Corbyn and Trump and will use every trick possible to keep the leadership until no alternative
    Do they?

    "Background information

    A leadership contest can be triggered in two ways:

    If 15% of Conservative MPs write to the Chairman of the 1922 Committee saying they no longer have confidence in the leader of the Conservative Party, orif the current leader resigns.

    A leader losing the confidence of the Parliamentary party is not allowed to participate in the resulting leadership election."

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01366/

    If that is correct, then it *is* on the face of it still possible to do a Major, but conversely if bj is vonced he is out and can't stand again, no requirement for him to resign
    That is not the actual party constitution, the assumption made being a party leader would automatically resign on losing a VONC. Boris loyalists are suggesting tonight he would not.

    It is is the resignation in the party rules which prevent the re-nomination, not the loss of a VONC
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,521

    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson was in the Downing St flat the night of the ‘Abba music’ event being investigated by police for potential Covid rule breaches.

    With @HarryYorke1. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/01/boris-johnson-downing-street-flat-night-abba-themed-party-held/

    Playing "Slipping through my fingers"?

    "Take a chance on me"?

    "SOS"?
    Waterloo
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Conservative Party MPs can initiate a no confidence vote in the leader when 15% (54 MPs) of Conservative MPs write to the chair of the party’s 1922 Committee (a committee representing backbench Conservative MPs).

    The no confidence vote is then scheduled by the chair in consultation with the party leader. MPs then vote in support or against the leader. This can happen quickly. For example, the no confidence vote in Theresa May was held on 12 December 2018, the day after she was informed that the 15% threshold had been reached. May needed 159 MPs to support her to stay in office, and won the vote by 200 to 117.

    Under current rules, if more than 50% of all Conservative MPs (181 MPs) vote in support of the prime minister, they can stay as party leader and prime minister and no new vote can be triggered for 12 months.

    If the leader lost the confidence vote among Conservative MPs, they would not be able to stand again – allowing any other Conservative MP to stand for the party leadership.

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/conservative-party-leadership-contests

    One thing that does puzzle me - notwithstanding this, because as I explained the process seems to be 'you resign if you lose a confidence vote, and leaders who resign can't now stand again' - is where the rules on a VONC are actually set out. Are they in the proceedings of the 1922 Committee or something? Because they're not in the party Constitution and I can't find them written down anywhere in an official Conservative source. Everyone just seems to know what they are.

    Not just a theoretical point, I'm teaching about this in a week or so!

    Any guidance gratefully received.
    I've asked Lord Hague for his papers, he wrote the original rules, and one of his staffers says the rules say losing a VONC prevents you standing again.
    Yes, but are they just in Hague's private papers? I mean - surely they should be written down elsewhere, somewhere official?
    Somewhere official.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,347
    edited February 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

    I have just read the rules. They say a leader who resigns cannot stand again. Boris will not resign even if he loses a VONC, he is as stubborn as Corbyn and Trump and will use every trick possible to keep the leadership until no alternative
    You are simply a disgrace to the conservative party

    You will be suggesting he storming 1922 next - whoops you have

    Shame on you
    @HYUFD reply

    I did not suggest, I queried 'would we see'

    My response


    Making any reference to it at all shames you

    It is utterly shocking and contemptible
  • Options
    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    WOW

    Why "Websevices On W ebsphere" ?
    World of Warcraft.
    So I looked online....

    Whipem Out Wednesdays
    That MUST be coming to a Sue Gray report near you soon.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,796
    edited February 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

    I have just read the rules. They say a leader who resigns cannot stand again. Boris will not resign even if he loses a VONC, he is as stubborn as Corbyn and Trump and will use every trick possible to keep the leadership until no alternative
    You are simply a disgrace to the conservative party

    You will be suggesting he storming 1922 next - whoops you have

    Shame on you
    Note I did not suggest, I queried 'would we see'

    Making any reference to it at all shames you

    It is utterly shocking and contemptible
    Children, really!
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,521

    WOW

    Why "Websevices On W ebsphere" ?
    World of Warcraft.
    So I looked online....

    Whipem Out Wednesdays
    That MUST be coming to a Sue Gray report near you soon.
    TSE - use your powers of influence.....
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,743
    HYUFD said:

    Were a Conservative leader to lose the vote, they would have to resign and a leadership election would be triggered. The resigning leader can’t stand in that election. The winner would become the new leader of the Conservative party and, as they are currently in government, also Prime Minister of the UK.

    https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

    I have just read the rules. They say a leader who resigns cannot stand again. Boris will not resign even if he loses a VONC, he is as stubborn as Corbyn and Trump and will use every trick possible to keep the leadership until no alternative
    I suspect that you are right. Johnson is without grace or dignity, and may well refuse to resign if Vote goes for no confidence.

    He would be out though very quickly in the ballot of MPs though. They aren't crazy.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137

    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson was in the Downing St flat the night of the ‘Abba music’ event being investigated by police for potential Covid rule breaches.

    With @HarryYorke1. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/01/boris-johnson-downing-street-flat-night-abba-themed-party-held/

    Playing "Slipping through my fingers"?

    "Take a chance on me"?

    "SOS"?
    Waterloo
    If there is a VONC, The Winner Takes it All.

    And it won't be Boris.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Conservative Party MPs can initiate a no confidence vote in the leader when 15% (54 MPs) of Conservative MPs write to the chair of the party’s 1922 Committee (a committee representing backbench Conservative MPs).

    The no confidence vote is then scheduled by the chair in consultation with the party leader. MPs then vote in support or against the leader. This can happen quickly. For example, the no confidence vote in Theresa May was held on 12 December 2018, the day after she was informed that the 15% threshold had been reached. May needed 159 MPs to support her to stay in office, and won the vote by 200 to 117.

    Under current rules, if more than 50% of all Conservative MPs (181 MPs) vote in support of the prime minister, they can stay as party leader and prime minister and no new vote can be triggered for 12 months.

    If the leader lost the confidence vote among Conservative MPs, they would not be able to stand again – allowing any other Conservative MP to stand for the party leadership.

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/conservative-party-leadership-contests

    One thing that does puzzle me - notwithstanding this, because as I explained the process seems to be 'you resign if you lose a confidence vote, and leaders who resign can't now stand again' - is where the rules on a VONC are actually set out. Are they in the proceedings of the 1922 Committee or something? Because they're not in the party Constitution and I can't find them written down anywhere in an official Conservative source. Everyone just seems to know what they are.

    Not just a theoretical point, I'm teaching about this in a week or so!

    Any guidance gratefully received.
    I've asked Lord Hague for his papers, he wrote the original rules, and one of his staffers says the rules say losing a VONC prevents you standing again.
    Yes, but are they just in Hague's private papers? I mean - surely they should be written down elsewhere, somewhere official?
    Somewhere official.
    But where? That's what I'm trying to get to. Does the 1922 Committee have it minuted that that's the procedure or something?
  • Options

    WOW

    Why "Websevices On W ebsphere" ?
    World of Warcraft.
    So I looked online....

    Whipem Out Wednesdays
    That MUST be coming to a Sue Gray report near you soon.
    TSE - use your powers of influence.....
    I encourage such things, in the tradition of Carry On.
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson was in the Downing St flat the night of the ‘Abba music’ event being investigated by police for potential Covid rule breaches.

    With @HarryYorke1. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/01/boris-johnson-downing-street-flat-night-abba-themed-party-held/

    Playing "Slipping through my fingers"?

    "Take a chance on me"?

    "SOS"?
    "One of Us" (One of us is lying!)
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Conservative Party MPs can initiate a no confidence vote in the leader when 15% (54 MPs) of Conservative MPs write to the chair of the party’s 1922 Committee (a committee representing backbench Conservative MPs).

    The no confidence vote is then scheduled by the chair in consultation with the party leader. MPs then vote in support or against the leader. This can happen quickly. For example, the no confidence vote in Theresa May was held on 12 December 2018, the day after she was informed that the 15% threshold had been reached. May needed 159 MPs to support her to stay in office, and won the vote by 200 to 117.

    Under current rules, if more than 50% of all Conservative MPs (181 MPs) vote in support of the prime minister, they can stay as party leader and prime minister and no new vote can be triggered for 12 months.

    If the leader lost the confidence vote among Conservative MPs, they would not be able to stand again – allowing any other Conservative MP to stand for the party leadership.

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/conservative-party-leadership-contests

    One thing that does puzzle me - notwithstanding this, because as I explained the process seems to be 'you resign if you lose a confidence vote, and leaders who resign can't now stand again' - is where the rules on a VONC are actually set out. Are they in the proceedings of the 1922 Committee or something? Because they're not in the party Constitution and I can't find them written down anywhere in an official Conservative source. Everyone just seems to know what they are.

    Not just a theoretical point, I'm teaching about this in a week or so!

    Any guidance gratefully received.
    I've asked Lord Hague for his papers, he wrote the original rules, and one of his staffers says the rules say losing a VONC prevents you standing again.
    Yes, but are they just in Hague's private papers? I mean - surely they should be written down elsewhere, somewhere official?
    None of this stuff is in the party constitution available online https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://public.conservatives.com/organisation-department/202101/Conservative%20Party%20Constitution%20%20as%20amended%20January%202021.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiin8rtr9_1AhVDDewKHRVaDBEQFnoECAMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw08QJHUuES87kd-RwJSBFl_

    Sorry hideous url. If you search that for confidence or 15% you draw a blank. I'm inclined to have faith in the HoC library though
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,136

    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson was in the Downing St flat the night of the ‘Abba music’ event being investigated by police for potential Covid rule breaches.

    With @HarryYorke1. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/01/boris-johnson-downing-street-flat-night-abba-themed-party-held/

    Playing "Slipping through my fingers"?

    "Take a chance on me"?

    "SOS"?
    "One of Us" (One of us is lying!)
    Waterloo?
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Conservative Party MPs can initiate a no confidence vote in the leader when 15% (54 MPs) of Conservative MPs write to the chair of the party’s 1922 Committee (a committee representing backbench Conservative MPs).

    The no confidence vote is then scheduled by the chair in consultation with the party leader. MPs then vote in support or against the leader. This can happen quickly. For example, the no confidence vote in Theresa May was held on 12 December 2018, the day after she was informed that the 15% threshold had been reached. May needed 159 MPs to support her to stay in office, and won the vote by 200 to 117.

    Under current rules, if more than 50% of all Conservative MPs (181 MPs) vote in support of the prime minister, they can stay as party leader and prime minister and no new vote can be triggered for 12 months.

    If the leader lost the confidence vote among Conservative MPs, they would not be able to stand again – allowing any other Conservative MP to stand for the party leadership.

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/conservative-party-leadership-contests

    One thing that does puzzle me - notwithstanding this, because as I explained the process seems to be 'you resign if you lose a confidence vote, and leaders who resign can't now stand again' - is where the rules on a VONC are actually set out. Are they in the proceedings of the 1922 Committee or something? Because they're not in the party Constitution and I can't find them written down anywhere in an official Conservative source. Everyone just seems to know what they are.

    Not just a theoretical point, I'm teaching about this in a week or so!

    Any guidance gratefully received.
    I've asked Lord Hague for his papers, he wrote the original rules, and one of his staffers says the rules say losing a VONC prevents you standing again.
    Yes, but are they just in Hague's private papers? I mean - surely they should be written down elsewhere, somewhere official?
    Somewhere official.
    But where? That's what I'm trying to get to. Does the 1922 Committee have it minuted that that's the procedure or something?
    1922 rules, it is in a document for the Chair of the 1922 on how to conduct VOCs and leadership election.

    There's a section on eligibility.

    One ineligibility is having lost a VOC that trigger the latest leadership contest.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,095
    NEW: This is a copy of the foreword to the Levelling Up White paper due tomorrow- written by Michael Gove and Andy Haldane and seen by Newsnight. They say they want to create a country where “by staying local, you can go far.” https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1488616615721807878/photo/1
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,796
    Quite fun being rude to two of PBs top posters. I guess like too much booze I'll pay for it in the morning. Such is life.

    Night PB.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    edited February 2022

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Conservative Party MPs can initiate a no confidence vote in the leader when 15% (54 MPs) of Conservative MPs write to the chair of the party’s 1922 Committee (a committee representing backbench Conservative MPs).

    The no confidence vote is then scheduled by the chair in consultation with the party leader. MPs then vote in support or against the leader. This can happen quickly. For example, the no confidence vote in Theresa May was held on 12 December 2018, the day after she was informed that the 15% threshold had been reached. May needed 159 MPs to support her to stay in office, and won the vote by 200 to 117.

    Under current rules, if more than 50% of all Conservative MPs (181 MPs) vote in support of the prime minister, they can stay as party leader and prime minister and no new vote can be triggered for 12 months.

    If the leader lost the confidence vote among Conservative MPs, they would not be able to stand again – allowing any other Conservative MP to stand for the party leadership.

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/conservative-party-leadership-contests

    One thing that does puzzle me - notwithstanding this, because as I explained the process seems to be 'you resign if you lose a confidence vote, and leaders who resign can't now stand again' - is where the rules on a VONC are actually set out. Are they in the proceedings of the 1922 Committee or something? Because they're not in the party Constitution and I can't find them written down anywhere in an official Conservative source. Everyone just seems to know what they are.

    Not just a theoretical point, I'm teaching about this in a week or so!

    Any guidance gratefully received.
    I've asked Lord Hague for his papers, he wrote the original rules, and one of his staffers says the rules say losing a VONC prevents you standing again.
    Yes, but are they just in Hague's private papers? I mean - surely they should be written down elsewhere, somewhere official?
    Somewhere official.
    But where? That's what I'm trying to get to. Does the 1922 Committee have it minuted that that's the procedure or something?
    1922 rules, it is in a document for the Chair of the 1922 on how to conduct VOCs and leadership election.

    There's a section on eligibility.

    One ineligibility is having lost a VOC that trigger the latest leadership contest.
    Thanks.shame they're not easily available online. 1922 committee literally a hundred years out of date?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,743

    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson was in the Downing St flat the night of the ‘Abba music’ event being investigated by police for potential Covid rule breaches.

    With @HarryYorke1. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/01/boris-johnson-downing-street-flat-night-abba-themed-party-held/

    Playing "Slipping through my fingers"?

    "Take a chance on me"?

    "SOS"?
    It would be hilarious if it was Dancing Queen.
  • Options

    WOW

    Why "Websevices On W ebsphere" ?
    World of Warcraft.
    So I looked online....

    Walker On Wheels
    Wealth Of Wonders
    Week Of Welcome
    Widening Our Welcome
    Wings Over Washington Kite Club
    Wisdom, Opportunity, and Wealth
    Wonderful Opportunities Worth
    Wonderful Owner's Working
    Wonderful, Overwhelming, and Wild
    Wondrous Outrageous Will
    Why Opportunity Works
    Widening Our World
    Work On Words
    World Of Wonder
    Write On Workshop
    Wafer On Wafer
    The World Of Wildlife
    What's On Waitakere
    Window On the World
    Word Of the Week
    Writing Our World
    Walk Over Walls
    Warrior Orientation Week
    Week Of War
    Winning Our World
    Woman Ordinance Worker
    Wider Opportunities for Women
    Wonders Of Wetlands
    Woodsmen Of the World
    Windows On Windows
    Walk On Wednesdays
    Washington Open Walkers
    Whipem Out Wednesdays
    White Oak Wonders
    Win On Win
    Winner Over Weight
    Winners On Wheels
    Woman On Water
    Women Of the Wall
    Women Of Wrestling
    Women On Wheels
    Wonders On Wheels
    Wordgames One Website
    World Of Wheels
    World Of Wrestling
    Wrestler Of the Week
    Watching Outstanding Wildcats
    Working On Wisdom
    Offshore it means Waiting on Weather which is a joy for all the crew.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    2.3 The change of rules in 1998
    The current rules, known as the ‘Hague rules’, were introduced in 1998.
    They were initially set out in principle in the Conservative document The
    Fresh Future.
    9 This document formed the basis for reforms to the
    organisation of the Conservative Party following its defeat in the 1997
    general election.
    In July 1997, the then party leader William Hague gave a speech
    outlining six principles which underpinned his vision for a new direction
    for the Party. These principles – unity, decentralisation, democracy,
    involvement, integrity and openness – fed into the publication of the
    consultation paper Blueprint for Change,
    10 presented to the Party’s
    conference in October 1997.
    Each principle formed a chapter heading in The Fresh Future policy
    paper. The leadership rules were set out in the chapter headed
    “Democracy: giving power to the members” and formed part of thestrategy to make the Party more accessible and responsive to Party
    members in the constituencies and to increase Party membership.
    At the time of announcing his intention to resign in 2005, Michael
    Howard announced that the system of electing a Conservative Party
    leader was to be reviewed and changed (see section 4 below). However,
    the changes proposed by the review did not secure enough support to
    be implemented and the 1998 rules were the basis on which the new
    leader was elected in 2005

    From the HoC briefing paper
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,883
    Evening again all :)

    That's a 12% swing from Conservative to Labour on UNS and in marginal seats and with tactical voting, I would think any Conservative MP facing a Labour challenge and with a majority vulnerable to a 15-18% swing will be worried.

    The CON-LD swing is a more modest 4.5% but with tactical voting by Labour supporters that could put any Conservative facing a Lib Dem challenger and having a majority vulnerable to a 10% swing could be under threat.

    My personal view is Com Res has overcooked the Labour number slightly and undercooked the LD number slightly so a 9-10 point Labour lead with the LDs in low double digits looks more reasonable.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,100
    edited February 2022

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Conservative Party MPs can initiate a no confidence vote in the leader when 15% (54 MPs) of Conservative MPs write to the chair of the party’s 1922 Committee (a committee representing backbench Conservative MPs).

    The no confidence vote is then scheduled by the chair in consultation with the party leader. MPs then vote in support or against the leader. This can happen quickly. For example, the no confidence vote in Theresa May was held on 12 December 2018, the day after she was informed that the 15% threshold had been reached. May needed 159 MPs to support her to stay in office, and won the vote by 200 to 117.

    Under current rules, if more than 50% of all Conservative MPs (181 MPs) vote in support of the prime minister, they can stay as party leader and prime minister and no new vote can be triggered for 12 months.

    If the leader lost the confidence vote among Conservative MPs, they would not be able to stand again – allowing any other Conservative MP to stand for the party leadership.

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/conservative-party-leadership-contests

    One thing that does puzzle me - notwithstanding this, because as I explained the process seems to be 'you resign if you lose a confidence vote, and leaders who resign can't now stand again' - is where the rules on a VONC are actually set out. Are they in the proceedings of the 1922 Committee or something? Because they're not in the party Constitution and I can't find them written down anywhere in an official Conservative source. Everyone just seems to know what they are.

    Not just a theoretical point, I'm teaching about this in a week or so!

    Any guidance gratefully received.
    I've asked Lord Hague for his papers, he wrote the original rules, and one of his staffers says the rules say losing a VONC prevents you standing again.
    Yes, but are they just in Hague's private papers? I mean - surely they should be written down elsewhere, somewhere official?
    Somewhere official.
    But where? That's what I'm trying to get to. Does the 1922 Committee have it minuted that that's the procedure or something?
    1922 rules, it is in a document for the Chair of the 1922 on how to conduct VOCs and leadership election.

    There's a section on eligibility.

    One ineligibility is having lost a VOC that trigger the latest leadership contest.
    The party constitution applies that ineligibility if a party leader resigns yes. Boris it seems may not resign even if he loses a VONC however.

    The future of the party and the nation could therefore now depend on the filing system of Lord Hague and the chair of the 1922 cttee. They would need a legible record from 1998 saying clearly that a Tory party leader who loses a VONC is automatically ineligible from standing again in a leadership election
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson was in the Downing St flat the night of the ‘Abba music’ event being investigated by police for potential Covid rule breaches.

    With @HarryYorke1. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/01/boris-johnson-downing-street-flat-night-abba-themed-party-held/

    Playing "Slipping through my fingers"?

    "Take a chance on me"?

    "SOS"?
    By the time he's finished, "I Do I Do I Do I Do I Do"?
  • Options

    WOW

    Why "Websevices On W ebsphere" ?
    World of Warcraft.
    So I looked online....

    Whipem Out Wednesdays
    That MUST be coming to a Sue Gray report near you soon.
    TSE - use your powers of influence.....
    I encourage such things, in the tradition of Carry On.
    Matron! Take him away!
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,095
    Telegraph can also share details of the three new events Sue Gray revealed in her report, all of which are being investigated by police.

    They involved leaving events for No10 figures who are now
    - a senior diplomat in US
    - a senior figure in Navy
    - a senior Culture Dep official
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,879
    Slightly puzzled by the use of the Lab/LD/Grn aggregate but not including the SNP or PC - but then leaving it at 56% of the whole UK so it's de facto understated.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Conservative Party MPs can initiate a no confidence vote in the leader when 15% (54 MPs) of Conservative MPs write to the chair of the party’s 1922 Committee (a committee representing backbench Conservative MPs).

    The no confidence vote is then scheduled by the chair in consultation with the party leader. MPs then vote in support or against the leader. This can happen quickly. For example, the no confidence vote in Theresa May was held on 12 December 2018, the day after she was informed that the 15% threshold had been reached. May needed 159 MPs to support her to stay in office, and won the vote by 200 to 117.

    Under current rules, if more than 50% of all Conservative MPs (181 MPs) vote in support of the prime minister, they can stay as party leader and prime minister and no new vote can be triggered for 12 months.

    If the leader lost the confidence vote among Conservative MPs, they would not be able to stand again – allowing any other Conservative MP to stand for the party leadership.

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/conservative-party-leadership-contests

    One thing that does puzzle me - notwithstanding this, because as I explained the process seems to be 'you resign if you lose a confidence vote, and leaders who resign can't now stand again' - is where the rules on a VONC are actually set out. Are they in the proceedings of the 1922 Committee or something? Because they're not in the party Constitution and I can't find them written down anywhere in an official Conservative source. Everyone just seems to know what they are.

    Not just a theoretical point, I'm teaching about this in a week or so!

    Any guidance gratefully received.
    I've asked Lord Hague for his papers, he wrote the original rules, and one of his staffers says the rules say losing a VONC prevents you standing again.
    Yes, but are they just in Hague's private papers? I mean - surely they should be written down elsewhere, somewhere official?
    Somewhere official.
    But where? That's what I'm trying to get to. Does the 1922 Committee have it minuted that that's the procedure or something?
    1922 rules, it is in a document for the Chair of the 1922 on how to conduct VOCs and leadership election.

    There's a section on eligibility.

    One ineligibility is having lost a VOC that trigger the latest leadership contest.
    The party constitution applies that ineligibility if a party leader resigns yes. Boris it seems may not resign even if he loses a VONC however.

    The future of the party and the nation could therefore now depend on the filing system of Lord Hague and the chair of the 1922 cttee. They would need a legible record from 1998 saying clearly that a Tory party leader who loses a VONC is automatically ineligible from standing again in a leadership election
    It's VOC, NOT a VONC :lol:
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Conservative Party MPs can initiate a no confidence vote in the leader when 15% (54 MPs) of Conservative MPs write to the chair of the party’s 1922 Committee (a committee representing backbench Conservative MPs).

    The no confidence vote is then scheduled by the chair in consultation with the party leader. MPs then vote in support or against the leader. This can happen quickly. For example, the no confidence vote in Theresa May was held on 12 December 2018, the day after she was informed that the 15% threshold had been reached. May needed 159 MPs to support her to stay in office, and won the vote by 200 to 117.

    Under current rules, if more than 50% of all Conservative MPs (181 MPs) vote in support of the prime minister, they can stay as party leader and prime minister and no new vote can be triggered for 12 months.

    If the leader lost the confidence vote among Conservative MPs, they would not be able to stand again – allowing any other Conservative MP to stand for the party leadership.

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/conservative-party-leadership-contests

    One thing that does puzzle me - notwithstanding this, because as I explained the process seems to be 'you resign if you lose a confidence vote, and leaders who resign can't now stand again' - is where the rules on a VONC are actually set out. Are they in the proceedings of the 1922 Committee or something? Because they're not in the party Constitution and I can't find them written down anywhere in an official Conservative source. Everyone just seems to know what they are.

    Not just a theoretical point, I'm teaching about this in a week or so!

    Any guidance gratefully received.
    I've asked Lord Hague for his papers, he wrote the original rules, and one of his staffers says the rules say losing a VONC prevents you standing again.
    Yes, but are they just in Hague's private papers? I mean - surely they should be written down elsewhere, somewhere official?
    Somewhere official.
    But where? That's what I'm trying to get to. Does the 1922 Committee have it minuted that that's the procedure or something?
    1922 rules, it is in a document for the Chair of the 1922 on how to conduct VOCs and leadership election.

    There's a section on eligibility.

    One ineligibility is having lost a VOC that trigger the latest leadership contest.
    The party constitution applies that ineligibility if a party leader resigns yes. Boris it seems may not resign even if he loses a VONC however.

    The future of the party and the nation could therefore now depend on the filing system of Lord Hague and the chair of the 1922 cttee. They would need a legible record from 1998 saying clearly that a Tory party leader who loses a VONC is automatically ineligible from standing again in a leadership election
    Actually, I think this kite being flown is very suggestive.

    Suggestive that Johnson is certain he'll lose the vote and is trying to browbeat MPs into thinking there's no point in holding one.

    However, if TSE could track down the source fo the rules in less than an hour, this seems unlikely to cut much ice.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,762
    ydoethur said:

    I'm just thinking of Sir Sion Trefor, or John Trevor, the last speaker to be fired before Martin in I think 1695. He refused to turn up for the vote when he was due to be evicted, claiming he was ill. He was hoping that would mean the House couldn't sit. But they just elected a new speaker anyway and carried on.

    Similarly, if Johnson decided to sulk Brady would just ignore him and hold a vote anyway, then the House of Commons would vote in his successor.

    The Trump option doesn't work here.

    Yet.
    Which is another reason he should not be left in place as PM.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,094
    edited February 2022
    stodge said:

    Evening again all :)

    That's a 12% swing from Conservative to Labour on UNS and in marginal seats and with tactical voting, I would think any Conservative MP facing a Labour challenge and with a majority vulnerable to a 15-18% swing will be worried.

    The CON-LD swing is a more modest 4.5% but with tactical voting by Labour supporters that could put any Conservative facing a Lib Dem challenger and having a majority vulnerable to a 10% swing could be under threat.

    My personal view is Com Res has overcooked the Labour number slightly and undercooked the LD number slightly so a 9-10 point Labour lead with the LDs in low double digits looks more reasonable.

    The real jeopardy for the Tories is the likely renaissance of tactical voting. Would be toxic for them even under the gerrymandered new boundaries which give them a ludicrous safety net.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,879

    WOW

    Why "Websevices On W ebsphere" ?
    World of Warcraft.
    World of WArships.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,095
    Michael Gove will announce 12 missions tomorrow, actual metrics against which levelling up will be judged. This is the full table from an internal govt document. Includes everything from Living Standards, to digital connectivity, to education, to “pride in place.” https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1488619523699838987/photo/1
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    Scott_xP said:

    Michael Gove will announce 12 missions tomorrow, actual metrics against which levelling up will be judged. This is the full table from an internal govt document. Includes everything from Living Standards, to digital connectivity, to education, to “pride in place.” https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1488619523699838987/photo/1

    Levelling Up died when they scrapped HS2E and NPR.

    From now on it's empty slogans to hide the lack of meaningful changes or any spending of money.
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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,977
    Scott_xP said:

    Michael Gove will announce 12 missions tomorrow, actual metrics against which levelling up will be judged. This is the full table from an internal govt document. Includes everything from Living Standards, to digital connectivity, to education, to “pride in place.” https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1488619523699838987/photo/1

    What a vacuous document
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,521

    WOW

    Why "Websevices On W ebsphere" ?
    World of Warcraft.
    So I looked online....

    Whipem Out Wednesdays
    That MUST be coming to a Sue Gray report near you soon.
    TSE - use your powers of influence.....
    I encourage such things, in the tradition of Carry On.
    So I mean use your influence in high places to get "Whipem Out Wednesdays" included in the official report....
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    WOW

    Why "Websevices On W ebsphere" ?
    World of Warcraft.
    So I looked online....

    Whipem Out Wednesdays
    That MUST be coming to a Sue Gray report near you soon.
    TSE - use your powers of influence.....
    I encourage such things, in the tradition of Carry On.
    So I mean use your influence in high places to get "Whipem Out Wednesdays" included in the official report....
    I shall try, would have happened if Dave (pbuh) was still in power.
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    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Scott_xP said:

    Michael Gove will announce 12 missions tomorrow, actual metrics against which levelling up will be judged. This is the full table from an internal govt document. Includes everything from Living Standards, to digital connectivity, to education, to “pride in place.” https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1488619523699838987/photo/1

    What a vacuous document
    I see the idea of balkanising England just won't die.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,947
    edited February 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: This is a copy of the foreword to the Levelling Up White paper due tomorrow- written by Michael Gove and Andy Haldane and seen by Newsnight. They say they want to create a country where “by staying local, you can go far.” https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1488616615721807878/photo/1

    Seems like the kind of play on words I suspect Gove likes. I also want to see 'By levelling up, we can create new peaks!' in the next document.

    And what scandal, listing three super-cities and having Paris come first. 'A new local government body' to monitor local performance and policies is a red flag, like manifestoes promising new government departments - I assume it means localism but controlled by Whitehall. The devolution promise doesn't look good to me, the chaotic nature of it to date, different from place to place, is part of the hold up and confusion.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,870
    Scott_xP said:

    Michael Gove will announce 12 missions tomorrow, actual metrics against which levelling up will be judged. This is the full table from an internal govt document. Includes everything from Living Standards, to digital connectivity, to education, to “pride in place.” https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1488619523699838987/photo/1

    Just had a quick read.

    It’s woefully unambitious.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,094
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Conservative Party MPs can initiate a no confidence vote in the leader when 15% (54 MPs) of Conservative MPs write to the chair of the party’s 1922 Committee (a committee representing backbench Conservative MPs).

    The no confidence vote is then scheduled by the chair in consultation with the party leader. MPs then vote in support or against the leader. This can happen quickly. For example, the no confidence vote in Theresa May was held on 12 December 2018, the day after she was informed that the 15% threshold had been reached. May needed 159 MPs to support her to stay in office, and won the vote by 200 to 117.

    Under current rules, if more than 50% of all Conservative MPs (181 MPs) vote in support of the prime minister, they can stay as party leader and prime minister and no new vote can be triggered for 12 months.

    If the leader lost the confidence vote among Conservative MPs, they would not be able to stand again – allowing any other Conservative MP to stand for the party leadership.

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/conservative-party-leadership-contests

    One thing that does puzzle me - notwithstanding this, because as I explained the process seems to be 'you resign if you lose a confidence vote, and leaders who resign can't now stand again' - is where the rules on a VONC are actually set out. Are they in the proceedings of the 1922 Committee or something? Because they're not in the party Constitution and I can't find them written down anywhere in an official Conservative source. Everyone just seems to know what they are.

    Not just a theoretical point, I'm teaching about this in a week or so!

    Any guidance gratefully received.
    I've asked Lord Hague for his papers, he wrote the original rules, and one of his staffers says the rules say losing a VONC prevents you standing again.
    Yes, but are they just in Hague's private papers? I mean - surely they should be written down elsewhere, somewhere official?
    Somewhere official.
    But where? That's what I'm trying to get to. Does the 1922 Committee have it minuted that that's the procedure or something?
    1922 rules, it is in a document for the Chair of the 1922 on how to conduct VOCs and leadership election.

    There's a section on eligibility.

    One ineligibility is having lost a VOC that trigger the latest leadership contest.
    The party constitution applies that ineligibility if a party leader resigns yes. Boris it seems may not resign even if he loses a VONC however.

    The future of the party and the nation could therefore now depend on the filing system of Lord Hague and the chair of the 1922 cttee. They would need a legible record from 1998 saying clearly that a Tory party leader who loses a VONC is automatically ineligible from standing again in a leadership election
    Oh god, this recalls the agony of Corbyn, who clung on through the minutiae of arcane Labour rules. Students of that dismal period will recall Corbo losing a vonc but refusing to resign: there was nothing in the party’s constitution for such an occurrence because when the rules were drawn up nobody even entertained the idea that a Labour leader would dream of remaining in post while failing to command the confidence of the PLP.

    Boris Corbyn truly is the heir to the original.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,095

    I shall try, would have happened if Dave (pbuh) was still in power.

    You can probably get Penny Mordaunt to do it when she takes over from BoZo
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,176
      War on Want
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,562
    edited February 2022
    The polling, when combined with the leader ratings, indicates two things, surely. That BJ has become less popular is self-evident. But it also looks now as if, slowly but surely, Starmer is becoming more popular, and fewer ex-Tories are sliding towards Lib Dem/Greens. BJ's demise won't surprise anybody. But the latter will surprise those who wrote Starmer off, and worry quite a few Tories.

    Amazing to think that, just six months ago, most distinguished commentators had written Starmer off as a dud. Some (e.g. me, for example) always argued that he should be given at least two years to prove himself (or not). Still two months to go to that milestone.
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    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Michael Gove will announce 12 missions tomorrow, actual metrics against which levelling up will be judged. This is the full table from an internal govt document. Includes everything from Living Standards, to digital connectivity, to education, to “pride in place.” https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1488619523699838987/photo/1

    Levelling Up died when they scrapped HS2E and NPR.

    From now on it's empty slogans to hide the lack of meaningful changes or any spending of money.
    Grimsby - once more you can take pride in plaice.
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    stodge said:

    Evening again all :)

    That's a 12% swing from Conservative to Labour on UNS and in marginal seats and with tactical voting, I would think any Conservative MP facing a Labour challenge and with a majority vulnerable to a 15-18% swing will be worried.

    The CON-LD swing is a more modest 4.5% but with tactical voting by Labour supporters that could put any Conservative facing a Lib Dem challenger and having a majority vulnerable to a 10% swing could be under threat.

    My personal view is Com Res has overcooked the Labour number slightly and undercooked the LD number slightly so a 9-10 point Labour lead with the LDs in low double digits looks more reasonable.

    The real jeopardy for the Tories is the likely renaissance of tactical voting. Would be toxic for them even under the gerrymandered new boundaries which give them a ludicrous safety net.
    Could work the other way, though.

    Gerrymandering is brilliant at optimising your conversion of votes into seats- ideally, you want lots of tight wins, and your opponent to waste lots of votes in ubersafe seats and near-misses.

    Downisde is that, if you overestimate your total vote, you end up narrowly losing everywhere...
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Michael Gove will announce 12 missions tomorrow, actual metrics against which levelling up will be judged. This is the full table from an internal govt document. Includes everything from Living Standards, to digital connectivity, to education, to “pride in place.” https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1488619523699838987/photo/1

    Levelling Up died when they scrapped HS2E and NPR.

    From now on it's empty slogans to hide the lack of meaningful changes or any spending of money.
    Grimsby - once more you can take pride in plaice.
    Oh, for cod's sake.
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    One wheeze that Johnson could use if he loses a VONC is to refuse to got to the Palace on the grounds that he is self-isolating.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,879
    edited February 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    Michael Gove will announce 12 missions tomorrow, actual metrics against which levelling up will be judged. This is the full table from an internal govt document. Includes everything from Living Standards, to digital connectivity, to education, to “pride in place.” https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1488619523699838987/photo/1

    What a vacuous document
    Just looking at it I can see several prophecies which will easily be fulfilled without any specific effort - simply because of inflation, rise in population, and - possibly - changes in life expectancy as the older cohorts die off (not too sure about that in the poorer areas, actually).
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,879
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Michael Gove will announce 12 missions tomorrow, actual metrics against which levelling up will be judged. This is the full table from an internal govt document. Includes everything from Living Standards, to digital connectivity, to education, to “pride in place.” https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1488619523699838987/photo/1

    Levelling Up died when they scrapped HS2E and NPR.

    From now on it's empty slogans to hide the lack of meaningful changes or any spending of money.
    Grimsby - once more you can take pride in plaice.
    Oh, for cod's sake.
    Lot of pollacks if you ask me.
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    Scott_xP said:

    I shall try, would have happened if Dave (pbuh) was still in power.

    You can probably get Penny Mordaunt to do it when she takes over from BoZo
    Penny is great, she follows me on Twitter, I shall ask her.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    edited February 2022

    One wheeze that Johnson could use if he loses a VONC is to refuse to got to the Palace on the grounds that he is self-isolating.

    I hope he does. Her Majesty should not have the degrading experience of speaking to him again.

    She should do what George III did to Portland, North and Fox in 1783, demand their seals by courier 'because personal meetings under these circumstances are likely to be painful.'
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,094

    One wheeze that Johnson could use if he loses a VONC is to refuse to got to the Palace on the grounds that he is self-isolating.

    Let him meet Lizzy via Zoom
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    Hang on, this thread cannot be correct. It is barely days ago that HY told us the polls were swinging back for good old Boris.

    We must wait for the full Sue Gray report before making any judgements - she will undoubtedly show the Tories on course to win a majority of 704 at the next election.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,095
    “Listening to him made me feel dirty.” Boris Johnson may be safe for now, but emotions still running high among many moderate Tory MPs.. watch out for at least one more call for him to resign tomorrow https://www.ft.com/content/0ded7a34-8560-4188-8137-5b71d4e36ff2
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    If Johnson lost a VONC from Tory MP and refused to quit Labour could move a VONC in HMG in which Tory MPs would abstain.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,870
    Scott_xP said:

    “Listening to him made me feel dirty.” Boris Johnson may be safe for now, but emotions still running high among many moderate Tory MPs.. watch out for at least one more call for him to resign tomorrow https://www.ft.com/content/0ded7a34-8560-4188-8137-5b71d4e36ff2

    It’s always tomorrow with these clowns.
This discussion has been closed.