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Might Southend West not be a total certainty for the Tories? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited February 2022 in General
imageMight Southend West not be a total certainty for the Tories? – politicalbetting.com

The next Westminster by-election is for the vacancy created by the murder on October 15th of the sitting MP, Devid AMess. Following the precedent set after the killing of Jo Cox in 2016 Labour, the LDs and the Greens have not put up candidates so on the face of it this should be a certain CON hold.

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Comments

  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    edited January 2022
    First?

    Edit: Yes! First first. :)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    Speculation in Westminster that some people inside Government have been trying to bounce Gray into holding the report, and she’s told them to do one.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1485997457410564102
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    On topic: Technically, nothing is a total certainty. But even if the Tories will struggle to get their voters to turn out, are left-inclined voters really supposed to come out for UKIP?
  • OT Sainsbury's sitrep fpt.

    Mask-wearing at about 80 per cent plus at Sainsbury's today. That's how desperate everyone was to abandon face nappies.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    OT Sainsbury's sitrep fpt.

    Mask-wearing at about 80 per cent plus at Sainsbury's today. That's how desperate everyone was to abandon face nappies.

    Still legally required (unless exempt), though. I don't think we can judge until, at the very least, the legal mandate is removed and shops have updated their signage/tannoy announcements.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,912
    edited January 2022
    I was delivering on Sunday afternoon in the freezing cold in Southend for Anna Firth. The English Democrats had also been delivering before me.

    I would guess the Tories will win, though given it is a by election and the current polls their vote may fall from 59% in 2019 to about 40-45% now.

    If the LDs or Labour had stood they might even have won it (though correctly they did not given the Tories did not stand in Batley after Jo Cox was murdered as David Amess was).

    As it is we could see a result something like Tories 40%, UKIP 30%, English Democrats 10% and Pyschedlic Movement 10% (the latter might pick up a few votes on a pro cannabis legalisation ticket as the only vaguely left or liberal option for Labour and LD voters) and Others 10%
  • I think this could be a contender for the lowest by election turnout ever (given that the Tories have a divisive right wing candidate who is strongly disliked by Lab/LD voters as we saw in Canterbury).

    I still think the Tories will get about 80% and only UKIP will hold their deposit:

    Con 80%
    UKIP 10 %
    Others 10%

    Turnout 20% (-47)


    If this was a normal by election Labour would get a 10%+ swing and poll 35%+.
  • It shows what a bunch of complete wankers UKIPers are that they thought it appropriate to put up a candidate under the circumstances.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    Jo Goodman @CovidJusticeUK: "Ultimately, it’s untenable for a PM to stay in power whilst being investigated by police... Sadly, it's clear he doesn’t have the decency to do the right thing by his country & go...MPs that keep him in power disgrace themselves every day they do so"
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1485999208331161604
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    OT Sainsbury's sitrep fpt.

    Mask-wearing at about 80 per cent plus at Sainsbury's today. That's how desperate everyone was to abandon face nappies.

    Still a legal requirement until Thursday. People are (still) mostly law abiding. Amazing after everything thats come out of No 10...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    An MP tells me Michael Gove among those hitting the phones to Tory backbenchers to try calm things down. Some certainly been persuaded by the argument that focus should be on Ukraine (although one MP says arguably opposite true- that who is at top more critical at time of crisis)
    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1485999748511420426
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited January 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    Speculation in Westminster that some people inside Government have been trying to bounce Gray into holding the report, and she’s told them to do one.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1485997457410564102

    This doesn't look good for the government, because they already officially briefed earlier that the report would be out in two parts, with the dodgy parts not released for now, by implication under some form of legal imperative.

    With them having done this, it now seems that both Gray and the Met are trashing this as any sort of officially agreed view.

    Oh dear.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    FPT

    Just had the haulage company on the phone again. With all of the paperwork fully assembled for the many many products on their truck from many many companies it took 5 hours to process them through customs. That's after hours of queues to get to the border.

    So much for Brexit having been delivered and that's it now done. We have a border operating model that doesn't operate. There is no benefit to the UK in turning a 20 minute border crossing into an 8 hour border crossing.

    @RochdalePioneers
    Do you regret voting for brexit now? I know this is not your version of brexit, but you did contribute to this. (Genuine question - I'm not trying to be sarky or snide.)
  • This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    HYUFD said:

    I was delivering on Sunday afternoon in the freezing cold in Southend for Anna Firth. The English Democrats had also been delivering before me.

    I would guess the Tories will win, though given it is a by election and the current polls their vote may fall from 59% in 2019 to about 40-45% now.

    If the LDs or Labour had stood they might even have won it (though correctly they did not given the Tories did not stand in Batley after Jo Cox was murdered as David Amess was).

    As it is we could see a result something like Tories 40%, UKIP 30%, English Democrats 10% and Pyschedlic Movement 10% (the latter might pick up a few votes on a pro cannabis legalisation ticket as the only vaguely left or liberal option for Labour and LD voters) and Others 10%

    That's some expectations management
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    Some MPs are just stupid - you hope everyone else just ignores them
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited January 2022

    FPT

    Just had the haulage company on the phone again. With all of the paperwork fully assembled for the many many products on their truck from many many companies it took 5 hours to process them through customs. That's after hours of queues to get to the border.

    So much for Brexit having been delivered and that's it now done. We have a border operating model that doesn't operate. There is no benefit to the UK in turning a 20 minute border crossing into an 8 hour border crossing.

    @RochdalePioneers
    Do you regret voting for brexit now? I know this is not your version of brexit, but you did contribute to this. (Genuine question - I'm not trying to be sarky or snide.)
    Why? Did Brexit win by a single vote?

    The issue wasn't voting for Brexit, the issue is very much Parliament and Boris's inability to understand what was being said and discovering a form of Brexit that wasn't economically painful of which a number of options were available.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Were I in the constituency, I'd be inclined to write in David Amess on the ballot.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874

    Boris reminds me of this fable:

    One day, while Nasreddin was visiting the capital city, the Sultan took offense to a joke that was made at his expense. He had Nasreddin immediately arrested and imprisoned; accusing him of heresy and sedition. Nasreddin apologized to the Sultan for his joke, and begged for his life; but the Sultan remained obstinate, and in his anger, sentenced Nasreddin to be beheaded the following day. When Nasreddin was brought out the next morning, he addressed the Sultan, saying "Oh Sultan, live forever! You know me to be a skilled teacher, the greatest in your kingdom. If you will but delay my sentence for one year, I will teach your favorite horse to sing."

    The Sultan did not believe that such a thing was possible; but his anger had cooled, and he was amused by the audacity of Nasreddin's claim. "Very well," replied the Sultan, "you will have a year. But if by the end of that year you have not taught my favorite horse to sing, then you will wish you had been beheaded today."

    That evening, Nasreddin's friends were allowed to visit him in prison, and found him in unexpected good spirits. "How can you be so happy?" they asked. "Do you really believe that you can teach the Sultan's horse to sing?" "Of course not," replied Nasreddin, "but I now have a year which I did not have yesterday; and much can happen in that time. The Sultan may come to repent of his anger, and release me. He may die in battle or of illness, and it is traditional for a successor to pardon all prisoners upon taking office. He may be overthrown by another faction, and again, it is traditional for prisoners to be released at such a time. Or the horse may die, in which case the Sultan will be obliged to release me."
    "Finally," said Nasreddin, "even if none of those things come to pass, perhaps the horse can sing."

    It's a good idea, but to be doubly sure, on the first day you are let out to train the horse, jump on its back and scarper as fast as the (hopefully) high quality horse will move.
  • Scott_xP said:

    An MP tells me Michael Gove among those hitting the phones to Tory backbenchers to try calm things down. Some certainly been persuaded by the argument that focus should be on Ukraine (although one MP says arguably opposite true- that who is at top more critical at time of crisis)
    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1485999748511420426

    The unctuous local vicar from Pride and Prejudice strikes again.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Scott_xP said:

    Speculation in Westminster that some people inside Government have been trying to bounce Gray into holding the report, and she’s told them to do one.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1485997457410564102

    This doesn't look good for the government, because they already officially briefed earlier that the report would be out in two parts, with the dodgy parts not released for now, by implication under some form of legal imperative.

    With them having done this, it now seems that both Gray and the Met are trashing this as any sort of officially agreed view.

    Oh dear.
    Yes a terrible mess which seems to be unravelling this afternoon.

    It looks like Johnson and the inner circle have tried to suppress SG's report under the pretext of the Met police investigation, but the Met don't seem to have asked for this at all.

    So did Johnson call in the police to try and buy time? As per the Nasreddin fable to which we've just been treated by NickyBreakspear?

    I'm still not sure the slippery sod won't get away with this but it's not looking good for him.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    eek said:

    FPT

    Just had the haulage company on the phone again. With all of the paperwork fully assembled for the many many products on their truck from many many companies it took 5 hours to process them through customs. That's after hours of queues to get to the border.

    So much for Brexit having been delivered and that's it now done. We have a border operating model that doesn't operate. There is no benefit to the UK in turning a 20 minute border crossing into an 8 hour border crossing.

    @RochdalePioneers
    Do you regret voting for brexit now? I know this is not your version of brexit, but you did contribute to this. (Genuine question - I'm not trying to be sarky or snide.)
    Why? Did Brexit win by a single vote?

    The issue wasn't voting for Brexit, the issue is very much Parliament and Boris's inability to understand what was being said and discovering a form of Brexit that wasn't economically painful of which a number of options were available.
    Well it wasn't a question for you - I'm interested in @RochdalePioneers view now, as he has said he voted for Brexit.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    eek said:

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    Some MPs are just stupid - you hope everyone else just ignores them
    It might be an entertaining scandal to break, though.

    It was (a while back) standard that NHS management, at a certain level of seniority, would get comprehensive private medical coverage in their contracts.

    No, not a couple of thousand pounds a year of private consultation, as in many, many jobs in the private sector.

    The deluxe version with just about anything included.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    -There were no parties
    -No rules were broken
    -Video: I'm sickened
    -Photo: it was work event
    -Just cheese and wine
    -Guidelines followed
    -Ok, Gray inquiry
    -No-one told me rules
    -Suitcases of booze
    -Wait for Gray
    -Blizzard of parties
    -Wait for Gray
    -Your b'day party
    -Wait for police

    https://twitter.com/paul__johnson/status/1485959240325992451
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    If only some sort of halfway sane centre-left independent had put themselves up, rather than this field of right wing nutters.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    This by-election demonstrates another way in which Boris is lucky.

    Too many entities are essentially competing for the old Brexit Party vote that went tory but feels alienated and betrayed by Boris.

    The vote is now splintered, making it more difficult for one united group (ie Reform) to land a proper punch.

  • Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Speculation in Westminster that some people inside Government have been trying to bounce Gray into holding the report, and she’s told them to do one.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1485997457410564102

    This doesn't look good for the government, because they already officially briefed earlier that the report would be out in two parts, with the dodgy parts not released for now, by implication under some form of legal imperative.

    With them having done this, it now seems that both Gray and the Met are trashing this as any sort of officially agreed view.

    Oh dear.
    Yes a terrible mess which seems to be unravelling this afternoon.

    It looks like Johnson and the inner circle have tried to suppress SG's report under the pretext of the Met police investigation, but the Met don't seem to have asked for this at all.

    So did Johnson call in the police to try and buy time? As per the Nasreddin fable to which we've just been treated by NickyBreakspear?

    I'm still not sure the slippery sod won't get away with this but it's not looking good for him.

    Sue Gray referred it to the police

    I wonder why you are worried he may remain in office when he is the oppositions best recruiting sergeant according to some
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    It shows what a bunch of complete wankers UKIPers are that they thought it appropriate to put up a candidate under the circumstances.

    Playing devils' adovacate, only a few days ago people on this site where correctly pointing out that the vote is for the person, not the party.

    If the person isn't there (for whatever reason) then why shouldn't any other people run?


    NOT playing devils' advocate - I'm of the opinion any serious mainstream party should contest every by-election, no matter the cause. Con and LD were wrong to stand aside for Jo Cox, and Lab and LD were wrong to stand aside for David Amess.
    Technically, you're correct to say that the vote is for the person not the party. But this is as helpful as if it turns out that technically, Boris didn't break any laws about the parties.

    On the last point, I would agree with the principle - but, with Con/LD having stepped aside after the assassination of Jo Cox, it would have been wrong and politically unsustainable for Labour to contest after the assassination of David Amess.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    So you would rule out Diane Abbot for Schools when Keir sweeps to power?

    Personally I want the best person for the job, whether they use private healthcare or not. Besides, the NHS is not wholly separate from private healthcare, as a visit tot dentist revealed. When I needed a mouth guard to stop my teeth grinding at night, I was offered the private option (as it was cheaper). Still the same dentist, in the same room, in the same chair, at the same time. And take schools - if someone has the means to use a private school, why should that preclude them from being in charge of the nations non-private schools? Other than bigotry?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    OT Sainsbury's sitrep fpt.

    Mask-wearing at about 80 per cent plus at Sainsbury's today. That's how desperate everyone was to abandon face nappies.

    So 20 per cent are already breaking the law? The rule doesn't end until Thursday!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    You are not aware that private medical is included in some management contract for.. the NHS?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    eek said:

    FPT

    Just had the haulage company on the phone again. With all of the paperwork fully assembled for the many many products on their truck from many many companies it took 5 hours to process them through customs. That's after hours of queues to get to the border.

    So much for Brexit having been delivered and that's it now done. We have a border operating model that doesn't operate. There is no benefit to the UK in turning a 20 minute border crossing into an 8 hour border crossing.

    @RochdalePioneers
    Do you regret voting for brexit now? I know this is not your version of brexit, but you did contribute to this. (Genuine question - I'm not trying to be sarky or snide.)
    Why? Did Brexit win by a single vote?

    The issue wasn't voting for Brexit, the issue is very much Parliament and Boris's inability to understand what was being said and discovering a form of Brexit that wasn't economically painful of which a number of options were available.
    Well it wasn't a question for you - I'm interested in @RochdalePioneers view now, as he has said he voted for Brexit.
    To be honest, I had forgotten that he had. What an idiot.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Jesus Christ I just weighed myself. I thought Sri Lankan food was meant to be healthy and, er, slimming?

    it was one of those moments when you look down at the scales and scoff and think Surely not, what nonsense, that’s wrong, so you go find another set of scales and… it’s right.

    OMG

    I have renewed empathy for Boris “cheese and wine” Johnson, and I’m afraid you can expect weekly if not daily updates on my attempt, beginning after this next Martini but one, to shed the REDACTED pounds I have somehow put on since last summer

    Ugh!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited January 2022

    eek said:

    FPT

    Just had the haulage company on the phone again. With all of the paperwork fully assembled for the many many products on their truck from many many companies it took 5 hours to process them through customs. That's after hours of queues to get to the border.

    So much for Brexit having been delivered and that's it now done. We have a border operating model that doesn't operate. There is no benefit to the UK in turning a 20 minute border crossing into an 8 hour border crossing.

    @RochdalePioneers
    Do you regret voting for brexit now? I know this is not your version of brexit, but you did contribute to this. (Genuine question - I'm not trying to be sarky or snide.)
    Why? Did Brexit win by a single vote?

    The issue wasn't voting for Brexit, the issue is very much Parliament and Boris's inability to understand what was being said and discovering a form of Brexit that wasn't economically painful of which a number of options were available.
    Well it wasn't a question for you - I'm interested in @RochdalePioneers view now, as he has said he voted for Brexit.
    As did I - but my personal version of Brexit where we joined a version of the EEA and allowed the EU to get on with the consolidation they clearly wish to pursue wasn't the one we ended up with.

    From memory I think my version of Brexit is rather identical to @Richard_Tyndall 's but for slightly different reasons.

    The issue with Brexit is that everyone who voted for it voted for their personal unicorn version of Brexit and then the lunatics got Boris to deliver a complete horlicks of a solution (yes it solves some problems but selling to the EU is now a nightmare). RD is lucky in that he is mainly dealing with imports which are bad but not as bad as exports now France and co can play games.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    Alternatively having someone who has seen the gap in service provision between public and private might be useful if you're looking to close the gap.

    That said, one of my expat colleagues just now was complaining at length about her experience of the UK health system after an epic series of GP calls, A&E visits, specialist referrals and pharmacy cock ups over the weekend, and her ire was directed equally at the NHS and the private providers. I think the difference is in her country in South America if you have private insurance you can just turn up at the private A&E and everything gets sorted. (Though meanwhile of course those without insurance are left to suffer without any meaningful care at all).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    Jesus Christ I just weighed myself. I thought Sri Lankan food was meant to be healthy and, er, slimming?

    it was one of those moments when you look down at the scales and scoff and think Surely not, what nonsense, that’s wrong, so you go find another set of scales and… it’s right.

    OMG

    I have renewed empathy for Boris “cheese and wine” Johnson, and I’m afraid you can expect weekly if not daily updates on my attempt, beginning after this next Martini but one, to shed the REDACTED pounds I have somehow put on since last summer

    Ugh!

    I thought you'd only been there a few days? Is it salt leading to fluid retention?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    On the other hand, could he not use his experience of the private sector to copy some of the best bits into the NHS?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Dreading PMQ”s tomorrow- 6 questions from Starmer about cake - was it M&S or Aldi / Was it chocolate / Did it have icing etc - Followed by Blackford-“ Where’s my slice ?

    https://twitter.com/mountain1945/status/1485900617394659339?s=21
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    Applicant said:

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    On the other hand, could he not use his experience of the private sector to copy some of the best bits into the NHS?
    The idea that only “pure” people can run the NHS is absurd. It immediately rules out any talent from overseas, for starters.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    RobD said:

    Applicant said:

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    On the other hand, could he not use his experience of the private sector to copy some of the best bits into the NHS?
    The idea that only “pure” people can run the NHS is absurd. It immediately rules out any talent from overseas, for starters.
    Indeed, and it's this kind of thinking that means the best person for the job is ineligible. Labour are onto a loser if they allow this to distract them from the Boris parties.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    Dreading PMQ”s tomorrow- 6 questions from Starmer about cake - was it M&S or Aldi / Was it chocolate / Did it have icing etc - Followed by Blackford-“ Where’s my slice ?

    https://twitter.com/mountain1945/status/1485900617394659339?s=21

    Surely it was an M&S Percy Pig cake to go with Boris's Peppa Pig obsession?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Dreading PMQ”s tomorrow- 6 questions from Starmer about cake - was it M&S or Aldi / Was it chocolate / Did it have icing etc - Followed by Blackford-“ Where’s my slice ?

    https://twitter.com/mountain1945/status/1485900617394659339?s=21

    I think we can all see from Boris's physique that he ate all the cake. There is none left.
  • FPT

    Just had the haulage company on the phone again. With all of the paperwork fully assembled for the many many products on their truck from many many companies it took 5 hours to process them through customs. That's after hours of queues to get to the border.

    So much for Brexit having been delivered and that's it now done. We have a border operating model that doesn't operate. There is no benefit to the UK in turning a 20 minute border crossing into an 8 hour border crossing.

    Do you regret voting for brexit now? I know this is not your version of brexit, but you did contribute to this. (Genuine question - I'm not trying to be sarky or snide.)
    Of course I regret it - its turned into the catastrofuck. We're a trading nation. We voted to leave a load of political restrictions on a project we were increasingly distant from. Stepping off an EU that was increasingly Schengen and Euro and closer bounds at a time of our choosing felt better than waiting to be flung to the outer reaches of a twin track Europe.

    But never did I conceive that we would impose 30 years of red tape, and demolish our just in time supply chain, and voluntarily put up as many barriers and impediments to trade as we could. Its the polar opposite of what the current government have spent decades doing and delivers a worse position post-Brexit than we had.

    As I keep saying, the current Border Operating Model does not work. So regardless of Brexit being done it isn't over, as we will need to remove many of our self-imposed barriers so that we can trade again.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Did we post this already ?

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1485985006472376322
    62% of Britons now think that Boris Johnson should resign as PM

    All Brits
    Should resign: 62% (+6 from 11th Jan)
    Should remain: 25% (-2)

    Con voters
    Resign: 38% (+5)
    Remain: 49% (-3)

    Lab voters
    Resign: 88% (+6)
    Remain: 5% (-4)
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    Applicant said:

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    On the other hand, could he not use his experience of the private sector to copy some of the best bits into the NHS?
    Yes maybe he will have noticed that if you put more money in you get a better service.
  • "Sue Gray, the civil servant investigating lockdown breaking parties in Downing Street, still intends to publish her report this week despite a police investigation into potential criminality, The Times understands."
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    TimS said:

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    Alternatively having someone who has seen the gap in service provision between public and private might be useful if you're looking to close the gap.

    That said, one of my expat colleagues just now was complaining at length about her experience of the UK health system after an epic series of GP calls, A&E visits, specialist referrals and pharmacy cock ups over the weekend, and her ire was directed equally at the NHS and the private providers. I think the difference is in her country in South America if you have private insurance you can just turn up at the private A&E and everything gets sorted. (Though meanwhile of course those without insurance are left to suffer without any meaningful care at all).
    That is because the size of the NHS means that much of the staff for private health care work in the NHS as well. Given the current health care problems, it's stuffed everything.

    That being said, the most popular private medical coverage is consultants and private GPS, in the UK. In normal times you can get to see a consultant within a day or so and the private GPs are walk in, often with no appointment.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Leon said:

    Jesus Christ I just weighed myself. I thought Sri Lankan food was meant to be healthy and, er, slimming?

    it was one of those moments when you look down at the scales and scoff and think Surely not, what nonsense, that’s wrong, so you go find another set of scales and… it’s right.

    OMG

    I have renewed empathy for Boris “cheese and wine” Johnson, and I’m afraid you can expect weekly if not daily updates on my attempt, beginning after this next Martini but one, to shed the REDACTED pounds I have somehow put on since last summer

    Ugh!

    Maybe you could blame it on the gravity being different there?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Jesus Christ I just weighed myself. I thought Sri Lankan food was meant to be healthy and, er, slimming?

    it was one of those moments when you look down at the scales and scoff and think Surely not, what nonsense, that’s wrong, so you go find another set of scales and… it’s right.

    OMG

    I have renewed empathy for Boris “cheese and wine” Johnson, and I’m afraid you can expect weekly if not daily updates on my attempt, beginning after this next Martini but one, to shed the REDACTED pounds I have somehow put on since last summer

    Ugh!

    I thought you'd only been there a few days? Is it salt leading to fluid retention?
    TBH I’ve been in denial since about July. Slowly putting it on. While “skipping meals”. EEEEK

    My vast alcohol intake probably doesn’t help either. Oh well.

    The only upside is that I quite like fasting. The iron test of the will, and the surge in brain energy. If only Leni Riefenstahl was still alive to film me, as I pump iron on Galle beach
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    On the other hand, could he not use his experience of the private sector to copy some of the best bits into the NHS?
    Yes maybe he will have noticed that if you put more money in you get a better service.
    If, after all these decades, you still believe that "putting in more money" is the panacea for the NHS, I don't think anyone can help you.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    Applicant said:

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    On the other hand, could he not use his experience of the private sector to copy some of the best bits into the NHS?
    Yes maybe he will have noticed that if you put more money in you get a better service.
    Haven’t we tried that? Simply putting more money in is not the answer.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    "Sue Gray, the civil servant investigating lockdown breaking parties in Downing Street, still intends to publish her report this week despite a police investigation into potential criminality, The Times understands."

    Good scoop by them, building on Sky News. But this paragraph is ominous:

    "They added that while the final decision on whether to publish would be in the hands of the prime minister they expected that it would be released in full."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Looking back it was a bit of a hint when the belt on my shorts basically burst open as I waddled to the gym, yesterday
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    Sue Gray latest: No 10 updated line is that there are ongoing talks between Cabinet Office and Met about what can be published

    PM’s spokesman says No 10 not seeking to block publication

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-60122893
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    I think that it would be terrible for faith in politics and politicians if SG's report is lost behind the smokescreen of the Met investigation.

    We need this into the open this week, whatever your political affiliations.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    Jesus Christ I just weighed myself. I thought Sri Lankan food was meant to be healthy and, er, slimming?

    it was one of those moments when you look down at the scales and scoff and think Surely not, what nonsense, that’s wrong, so you go find another set of scales and… it’s right.

    OMG

    I have renewed empathy for Boris “cheese and wine” Johnson, and I’m afraid you can expect weekly if not daily updates on my attempt, beginning after this next Martini but one, to shed the REDACTED pounds I have somehow put on since last summer

    Ugh!

    Maybe you could blame it on the gravity being different there?
    Sadly the impact would be the other way - people weigh less in tropical climes due to being further from the centre of the earth, since the earth bulges near the equator.
  • Applicant said:

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    On the other hand, could he not use his experience of the private sector to copy some of the best bits into the NHS?
    It looks like he got diagnosed by the NHS then treated privately.
  • OT Sainsbury's sitrep fpt.

    Mask-wearing at about 80 per cent plus at Sainsbury's today. That's how desperate everyone was to abandon face nappies.

    Coincidentally I wore mine in Sainsbury's earlier today.

    I can't wait to dump the stupid and ridiculous masks but am respecting and waiting until the law changes on Thursday.

    Let's wait and see how many choose to wear the stupid things once it's optional before prematurely judging hey? But 20% refusing to follow the law (don't give me any nonsense about them being exempt) speaks volumes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    I have to get out of this hotel. NOW. It has the best food per dollar I have ever encountered. Superb, freshly made curries for £4

    I need to check into a hostel above a weirdly expensive McDonalds.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Leon said:

    Looking back it was a bit of a hint when the belt on my shorts basically burst open as I waddled to the gym, yesterday

    New running target for @JosiasJessop - one lap round all the @SeanTs
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    "You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game,"

    He will use many NHS services; he will have gone private for a few. If he ever uses GPs, then he has skin in the game.

    Yours is a totally bogus argument IMO: should a rail chief not have a car, so he has to travel everywhere by train? Of course not - as long as he makes some journeys. If someone never goes to the doctors because they are healthy, should they be disallowed from running the servie?

    This fetishisation of the NHS will destroy it eventually.
    It's not fetishisation. Most people don't have private health insurance - they rely on the NHS. I would want the person running the NHS to know how that feels.
    Your comparison with rail is absurd because most rail users also have a car.
  • Applicant said:

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    On the other hand, could he not use his experience of the private sector to copy some of the best bits into the NHS?
    It looks like he got diagnosed by the NHS then treated privately.
    Thus shortening the NHS waiting list by one. Good for him, good for the NHS.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,912
    Nigelb said:

    Did we post this already ?

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1485985006472376322
    62% of Britons now think that Boris Johnson should resign as PM

    All Brits
    Should resign: 62% (+6 from 11th Jan)
    Should remain: 25% (-2)

    Con voters
    Resign: 38% (+5)
    Remain: 49% (-3)

    Lab voters
    Resign: 88% (+6)
    Remain: 5% (-4)

    Yes, I noted more 2019 Con voters and more Leave voters want Boris to stay than go
  • OT Sainsbury's sitrep fpt.

    Mask-wearing at about 80 per cent plus at Sainsbury's today. That's how desperate everyone was to abandon face nappies.

    Coincidentally I wore mine in Sainsbury's earlier today.

    I can't wait to dump the stupid and ridiculous masks but am respecting and waiting until the law changes on Thursday.

    Let's wait and see how many choose to wear the stupid things once it's optional before prematurely judging hey? But 20% refusing to follow the law (don't give me any nonsense about them being exempt) speaks volumes.
    Not really. It has been around 80 to 90 per cent for as long as I can remember.
  • Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Speculation in Westminster that some people inside Government have been trying to bounce Gray into holding the report, and she’s told them to do one.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1485997457410564102

    This doesn't look good for the government, because they already officially briefed earlier that the report would be out in two parts, with the dodgy parts not released for now, by implication under some form of legal imperative.

    With them having done this, it now seems that both Gray and the Met are trashing this as any sort of officially agreed view.

    Oh dear.
    Yes a terrible mess which seems to be unravelling this afternoon.

    It looks like Johnson and the inner circle have tried to suppress SG's report under the pretext of the Met police investigation, but the Met don't seem to have asked for this at all.

    So did Johnson call in the police to try and buy time? As per the Nasreddin fable to which we've just been treated by NickyBreakspear?

    I'm still not sure the slippery sod won't get away with this but it's not looking good for him.

    Sue Gray referred it to the police

    I wonder why you are worried he may remain in office when he is the oppositions best recruiting sergeant according to some
    Why?

    Because he brings Politics into disrepute
    Because he brings his offfice into disrepute
    Because he brings the country into disrepute

    Every day that he stays may well be great news on narrow partisan grounds for those of us who want the Tories out. But every day is also a national disaster as the very institutions of state are dragged into a gutter they will struggle to climb out of.

    Its not all about party politics. Sometimes its basic morality. Right and wrong. Boris is Wrong.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Leon said:

    I have to get out of this hotel. NOW. It has the best food per dollar I have ever encountered. Superb, freshly made curries for £4

    I need to check into a hostel above a weirdly expensive McDonalds.

    I recommend Geneva.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    OT Sainsbury's sitrep fpt.

    Mask-wearing at about 80 per cent plus at Sainsbury's today. That's how desperate everyone was to abandon face nappies.

    Coincidentally I wore mine in Sainsbury's earlier today.

    I can't wait to dump the stupid and ridiculous masks but am respecting and waiting until the law changes on Thursday.

    Let's wait and see how many choose to wear the stupid things once it's optional before prematurely judging hey? But 20% refusing to follow the law (don't give me any nonsense about them being exempt) speaks volumes.
    Not really. It has been around 80 to 90 per cent for as long as I can remember.
    And will continue to be worn because unless like Bartholmew, most of us aren't selfish and idiots.

    They work as well as anything can to prevent a nasty airborne virus which is still around.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited January 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    Sue Gray latest: No 10 updated line is that there are ongoing talks between Cabinet Office and Met about what can be published

    PM’s spokesman says No 10 not seeking to block publication

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-60122893

    Obviously they are and have been, but how much the Met and Gray let be known about that will be crucial.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    That's barmy. Surely you want someone who DOES recognise that the service isn't good enough?
    Everyone in the country knows the service isn't good enough. The question is, who will put the most effort into fixing it, someone who has always relied on it or someone who has chosen not to use it?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    "You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game,"

    He will use many NHS services; he will have gone private for a few. If he ever uses GPs, then he has skin in the game.

    Yours is a totally bogus argument IMO: should a rail chief not have a car, so he has to travel everywhere by train? Of course not - as long as he makes some journeys. If someone never goes to the doctors because they are healthy, should they be disallowed from running the servie?

    This fetishisation of the NHS will destroy it eventually.
    It's not fetishisation. Most people don't have private health insurance - they rely on the NHS. I would want the person running the NHS to know how that feels.
    Your comparison with rail is absurd because most rail users also have a car.
    I would much rather someone knew who things could be rather than how they are.

    Now I wouldn't want the person in charge of the NHS to be using private health care when he was running it, but knowing how things could be rather than how they are would be an advantage.

    It's like the argument you used to get about School Governors. You want people who understand how things could be to be in charge so they push for (achievable) changes and don't listen to the excuses of but that's how things are.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Of all the Meat Loaf epitaphs, this article from 2011 is probably the best.

    https://deadspin.com/meat-loaf-was-my-softball-coach-5821391
    ...In 1991, I was a high school freshman in the small town of Redding, Conn. My brother was a senior, and his prom date was one of our neighbors down the street, a junior, Pearl Aday. Pearl would drive me home from softball practice when her father, our coach, was unable to. I preferred Pearl, as her dad drove a red sports car, pushing it to its capabilities through our small, winding roads … like a bat out of hell. His name was Marvin Lee Aday, but he was better known to the world as Meat Loaf. To the scrappy group of girls he was trying to mold into softball players, he was Coach Meat.

    The JV team was orphaned at birth that year. No one wanted to coach us, and it was getting down to the wire when Meat Loaf volunteered, despite being on the verge of filming three movies and being in the midst of recording Bat Out Of Hell II. Coach Meat took the game very seriously. When we prodded him to sing us one of his hits, we were denied. Instead, he taught us a team chant: "What do we wanna do? Kill! What do we need to do? Kill! What are we gonna do? Kill! What do big dogs do? KILL!"...
  • Heathener said:

    "Sue Gray, the civil servant investigating lockdown breaking parties in Downing Street, still intends to publish her report this week despite a police investigation into potential criminality, The Times understands."

    Good scoop by them, building on Sky News. But this paragraph is ominous:

    "They added that while the final decision on whether to publish would be in the hands of the prime minister they expected that it would be released in full."
    He can't stop it. The entire thing would *accidentally* be leaked in a kind of whoops apocalypse I didn't intend to attach that document to my email to my friendly hack contact way.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    That's barmy. Surely you want someone who DOES recognise that the service isn't good enough?
    Everyone in the country knows the service isn't good enough. The question is, who will put the most effort into fixing it, someone who has always relied on it or someone who has chosen not to use it?
    I would suggest that is entirely separate from their ability to deliver that.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Scott_xP said:
    But surely if Mr Johnson decides he doesn't want to compromise the Met Police investigation he must can the report. He can reveal his precis and summarise its findings, namely that no law was broken by Mr Johnson. Although there was a drinking culture in Downing Street that he was unaware of and it must be curtailed forthwith. A whole raft of Civil Servants will be dismissed with immediate effect to reorder to he house.

    Today has been a massive win for Johnson.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Cookie said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    Jesus Christ I just weighed myself. I thought Sri Lankan food was meant to be healthy and, er, slimming?

    it was one of those moments when you look down at the scales and scoff and think Surely not, what nonsense, that’s wrong, so you go find another set of scales and… it’s right.

    OMG

    I have renewed empathy for Boris “cheese and wine” Johnson, and I’m afraid you can expect weekly if not daily updates on my attempt, beginning after this next Martini but one, to shed the REDACTED pounds I have somehow put on since last summer

    Ugh!

    Maybe you could blame it on the gravity being different there?
    Sadly the impact would be the other way - people weigh less in tropical climes due to being further from the centre of the earth, since the earth bulges near the equator.
    Is that actually true? Great

    I’m now scared of jumping out of bed too eagerly, in case I cause ANOTHER tsunami
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    "You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game,"

    He will use many NHS services; he will have gone private for a few. If he ever uses GPs, then he has skin in the game.

    Yours is a totally bogus argument IMO: should a rail chief not have a car, so he has to travel everywhere by train? Of course not - as long as he makes some journeys. If someone never goes to the doctors because they are healthy, should they be disallowed from running the servie?

    This fetishisation of the NHS will destroy it eventually.
    It's not fetishisation. Most people don't have private health insurance - they rely on the NHS. I would want the person running the NHS to know how that feels.
    Your comparison with rail is absurd because most rail users also have a car.
    Should we fire all those in the NHS with private medical coverage in their contracts, incidentally?
  • OT Sainsbury's sitrep fpt.

    Mask-wearing at about 80 per cent plus at Sainsbury's today. That's how desperate everyone was to abandon face nappies.

    Coincidentally I wore mine in Sainsbury's earlier today.

    I can't wait to dump the stupid and ridiculous masks but am respecting and waiting until the law changes on Thursday.

    Let's wait and see how many choose to wear the stupid things once it's optional before prematurely judging hey? But 20% refusing to follow the law (don't give me any nonsense about them being exempt) speaks volumes.
    Not really. It has been around 80 to 90 per cent for as long as I can remember.
    Which is pretty low for something legally required.

    Once it's legally optional instead of legally compulsory I expect quite rightly only a small minority will wear them.

    Good for them if they wish to, but the rest of us shouldn't. But why read into the fact 80% are wearing them today when it's still the law today ... Or did you think the law lapsed today?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    "You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game,"

    He will use many NHS services; he will have gone private for a few. If he ever uses GPs, then he has skin in the game.

    Yours is a totally bogus argument IMO: should a rail chief not have a car, so he has to travel everywhere by train? Of course not - as long as he makes some journeys. If someone never goes to the doctors because they are healthy, should they be disallowed from running the servie?

    This fetishisation of the NHS will destroy it eventually.
    It's not fetishisation. Most people don't have private health insurance - they rely on the NHS. I would want the person running the NHS to know how that feels.
    Your comparison with rail is absurd because most rail users also have a car.
    It's not absurd. It's challenging the statement you made.

    This is a little personal to me. As I've said passim, the NHS mucked up an operation when I was 15 that left me in intermittent pain. It was fixed about ten years later by a private surgeon after many operations. Thanks to that surgeon, I can walk properly.

    I was lucky to get a good surgeon. But the NHS did not give a damn about their negligence.

    So yes, it is a fetishisation. And it is one that will kill people - see the Stafford hospital scandal (c) Andy Burnham for an example.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    edited January 2022
    Heathener said:

    I think that it would be terrible for faith in politics and politicians if SG's report is lost behind the smokescreen of the Met investigation.

    We need this into the open this week, whatever your political affiliations.

    I am hopeful it will be published this week

    Boris demeanour at the dispatch box was remarkably bullish and as I said earlier it was either bravado - denial - or belief he is innocent

    For all the sound and fury Boris's fate is in the hands of his colleagues

    And Douglas Ross repeats his resignation demand
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Nigelb said:

    Did we post this already ?

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1485985006472376322
    62% of Britons now think that Boris Johnson should resign as PM

    All Brits
    Should resign: 62% (+6 from 11th Jan)
    Should remain: 25% (-2)

    Con voters
    Resign: 38% (+5)
    Remain: 49% (-3)

    Lab voters
    Resign: 88% (+6)
    Remain: 5% (-4)

    As only Con voters matter that is a ringing endorsement of Johnson.

    Way to go Bozza!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    edited January 2022
    How can any sentient person - let alone someone claiming to have the best interests of the UK at heart - genuinely believe that Boris Johnson is capable of steering the country through what is coming over the next few years?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    "You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game,"

    He will use many NHS services; he will have gone private for a few. If he ever uses GPs, then he has skin in the game.

    Yours is a totally bogus argument IMO: should a rail chief not have a car, so he has to travel everywhere by train? Of course not - as long as he makes some journeys. If someone never goes to the doctors because they are healthy, should they be disallowed from running the servie?

    This fetishisation of the NHS will destroy it eventually.
    It's not fetishisation. Most people don't have private health insurance - they rely on the NHS. I would want the person running the NHS to know how that feels.
    Your comparison with rail is absurd because most rail users also have a car.
    Should we fire all those in the NHS with private medical coverage in their contracts, incidentally?
    I propose that anyone who opts for private provision be marked somehow. It would be easier to keep track of them as apparently the taint never goes away.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    RobD said:

    Applicant said:

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    On the other hand, could he not use his experience of the private sector to copy some of the best bits into the NHS?
    Yes maybe he will have noticed that if you put more money in you get a better service.
    Haven’t we tried that? Simply putting more money in is not the answer.
    Yes we tried it under Labour and waiting lists came down and the service improved. Then the Tories slashed the real terms growth in spending and it's all gone to shit. More money isn't the answer but it is certainly part of the answer.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Heathener said:

    OT Sainsbury's sitrep fpt.

    Mask-wearing at about 80 per cent plus at Sainsbury's today. That's how desperate everyone was to abandon face nappies.

    Coincidentally I wore mine in Sainsbury's earlier today.

    I can't wait to dump the stupid and ridiculous masks but am respecting and waiting until the law changes on Thursday.

    Let's wait and see how many choose to wear the stupid things once it's optional before prematurely judging hey? But 20% refusing to follow the law (don't give me any nonsense about them being exempt) speaks volumes.
    Not really. It has been around 80 to 90 per cent for as long as I can remember.
    And will continue to be worn because unless like Bartholmew, most of us aren't selfish and idiots.

    They work as well as anything can to prevent a nasty airborne virus which is still around.
    I'd be interested how much of the 80 to 90 per cent is N95s or better. In my experience, it's less than 20%.
  • Scott_xP said:
    But surely if Mr Johnson decides he doesn't want to compromise the Met Police investigation he must can the report. He can reveal his precis and summarise its findings, namely that no law was broken by Mr Johnson. Although there was a drinking culture in Downing Street that he was unaware of and it must be curtailed forthwith. A whole raft of Civil Servants will be dismissed with immediate effect to reorder to he house.

    Today has been a massive win for Johnson.
    Its no longer in his remit to do so. Officially he may have the power to yay or nay the thing, but in practice he doesn't. He can't hide behind "sub judice" because the Met have asked that it be published. He can't redact it because juicy stuff has already been leaked and if its not there someone will leak it after massive political pressure against his cover-up. He can't be seen to stand in its way at all if he is going to have any political "I'm the real victim here" cards left to play.
  • This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    That's barmy. Surely you want someone who DOES recognise that the service isn't good enough?
    Everyone in the country knows the service isn't good enough. The question is, who will put the most effort into fixing it, someone who has always relied on it or someone who has chosen not to use it?
    Someone who has chosen not to use it.

    They're clearly not naively blinded into thinking nothing needs improving.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited January 2022

    Heathener said:

    I think that it would be terrible for faith in politics and politicians if SG's report is lost behind the smokescreen of the Met investigation.

    We need this into the open this week, whatever your political affiliations.

    I am hopeful it will be published this week

    Boris demeanour at the dispatch box was remarkably bullish and as I said earlier it was either bravado - denial - or belief he is innocent

    For all the sound and fury Boris's fate is in the hands of his colleagues

    And Douglas Ross repeats his resignation demand
    His demeanor is nearly always bullish. That doesn't mean anything, other than that his confident narcissism is intact, as usual.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Nigelb said:

    Were I in the constituency, I'd be inclined to write in David Amess on the ballot.

    Were I in the constituency, I'd be inclined to move.

    (That's just my snobbish mid-Essex upbringing making me look down on the South End. Plus being pissy about Chelmsford losing it's status as the only city in Essex)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,148
    MISTY said:

    This by-election demonstrates another way in which Boris is lucky.

    Too many entities are essentially competing for the old Brexit Party vote that went tory but feels alienated and betrayed by Boris.

    The vote is now splintered, making it more difficult for one united group (ie Reform) to land a proper punch.

    Ah yes, I remember them. How did they do in Brexit supporting North Shropshire again?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    This is the sort of shite that Labour come out with that make me question whether I could ever vote for them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-unhappy-with-no-10-s-choice-of-nhs-boss-because-he-used-private-healthcare/ar-AASUrJA?ocid=entnewsntp

    I think Labour's criticism is absolutely valid. Why trust someone to run the NHS if they don't rely on it themselves? The argument that the private health insurance was provided by his employer is bogus because I am sure he could have turned it down (as I have). For similar reasons, nobody with power over the state education system should use private schools. You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game, not to have demonstrated that they think that the service they are in charge of isn't good enough for them.
    "You want people in charge of things to have personal skin in the game,"

    He will use many NHS services; he will have gone private for a few. If he ever uses GPs, then he has skin in the game.

    Yours is a totally bogus argument IMO: should a rail chief not have a car, so he has to travel everywhere by train? Of course not - as long as he makes some journeys. If someone never goes to the doctors because they are healthy, should they be disallowed from running the servie?

    This fetishisation of the NHS will destroy it eventually.
    It's not fetishisation. Most people don't have private health insurance - they rely on the NHS. I would want the person running the NHS to know how that feels.
    Your comparison with rail is absurd because most rail users also have a car.
    It's not absurd. It's challenging the statement you made.

    This is a little personal to me. As I've said passim, the NHS mucked up an operation when I was 15 that left me in intermittent pain. It was fixed about ten years later by a private surgeon after many operations. Thanks to that surgeon, I can walk properly.

    I was lucky to get a good surgeon. But the NHS did not give a damn about their negligence.

    So yes, it is a fetishisation. And it is one that will kill people - see the Stafford hospital scandal (c) Andy Burnham for an example.
    I'm very sorry to hear about your experience, but a lot more people will suffer if the NHS continues to wither on the vine as is happening now.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989

    How can any sentient person - let alone someone claiming to have the best interests of the UK at heart - genuinely believe that Boris Johnson is capable of steering the country through what is coming over the next few years?

    They don't.

    Cabinet members think he is their only hope of keeping their sweet gigs.
This discussion has been closed.