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Don’t tell. Show us. – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited December 2021 in General
imageDon’t tell. Show us. – politicalbetting.com

The new Shadow Home Secretary, Yvette Cooper has been tweeting about Boris’s Crime Week and how it hasn’t quite gone to plan. All very enjoyable no doubt and the large Labour poll leads even more so. There is, however, one crime which came to light this week to which Ms Cooper should pay rather more attention, both because it highlights fundamental problems with essential services and, potentially, provides the basis for sensible Labour policies. The crime – or crimes – are the 4 murders between June 2014 and September 2015 by Stephen Port, a serial killer, who killed 4 young gay men, first drugging them, then raping them, then murdering and abandoning their bodies, 3 of them in the same place in a Barking cemetery. What happened to them is distressing. The serial incompetence displayed by the police (the Metropolitan police, in case you were wondering. I know – I was shocked too), extensively aired at the inquest, which concluded this week, must have been equally distressing for the families, not least because had the first murder been investigated properly, it is very likely that 3 young men would still be alive.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 5,411
    edited December 2021
    Back - and in first place :wink:
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,298
    edited December 2021
    Humph!

    Still, women in 1st and 2nd place.

    All is as it should be in a well-ordered universe.
  • I am going to say - sadly - that I think more restrictions are on the way.

    I'm going to discuss with my counsellor whether they will do remote sessions as otherwise I really will struggle to cope
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,471
    edited December 2021
    You'd think that three dead bodies found in the same place might have raised a police eyebrow.
  • Re Boris's broadcast.

    Maybe the reason he looked so bad was that the in-house Number 10 film crew aren't as good at lighting and even focusing as your actual BBC. Whatever happened to that nice Allegra Stratton?
  • My professional line is the provision pf Portfolio, Programme and Project office management. I genuinely believe that a lot of what I do is overly complex and - to be blunt - mumbo jumbo. I think the same applies to the provision of public services and delivery services generally. The desire to spread best practice has resulted in more bureaucracy, more box ticking and lower quality. It also allows people to hide behind following process when they mess up. We really need to refocus the police on catching criminals and deterring wrongdoing. Surely we can focus on what is important and simplify procedures.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689

    You'd think that three dead bodies found in the same place might have raised a police eyebrow.

    "People die, it's part of life" I believe is the appropriate response these days?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,298

    You'd think that three dead bodies found in the same place might have raised a police eyebrow.

    Not to mention that the killer admitted lying about how the body of the first victim ended up outside his flat and he was prosecuted for some of his lies.
  • So, what's the feeling? Another promise from Johnson that will be nowhere near met?

    Millions and millions of jabs by new years day?

    If he doesn't meet it, the Tory faithful here will deny it was ever said
    You really are quite bitter and twisted aren't you?

    You come across as someone who would rather see the whole country plunged into misery and lockdown than see the country come through the winter well under a Tory PM.
    If Labour were in office you would be as partisan
    No, I wouldn't.

    I have my own principles and I stick by them, I don't change them to suit whatever team are in power.
    My irony meter exploded. You're one of the most nakedly partisan posters here Philip, you're never ever wrong. And that's why I like conversing with you
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689

    So, what's the feeling? Another promise from Johnson that will be nowhere near met?

    Millions and millions of jabs by new years day?

    If he doesn't meet it, the Tory faithful here will deny it was ever said
    You really are quite bitter and twisted aren't you?

    You come across as someone who would rather see the whole country plunged into misery and lockdown than see the country come through the winter well under a Tory PM.
    If Labour were in office you would be as partisan
    No, I wouldn't.

    I have my own principles and I stick by them, I don't change them to suit whatever team are in power.
    My irony meter exploded. You're one of the most nakedly partisan posters here Philip, you're never ever wrong. And that's why I like conversing with you
    Irony meters die, it's a part of life
  • Cyclefree said:

    Humph!

    Still, women in 1st and 2nd place.

    All is as it should be in a well-ordered universe.

    :smiley:

    Nonetheless, I think your points about competence are valid, but in some respects twas ever thus. New systems are put in place by able, competent people who put in the hard work and eventually, if they are successful, those systems or positions become desirable for the sort of parasite for whom, power, prestige and position is more important than the ability to do things correctly.

    A good example would be the institutional sneering that has existed for decades, perhaps centuries, of what we now call the STEM subjects. Some aspects of this even goes back to the ancient Greeks when Aristotle proved by pure reason that women have fewer teeth than man. To actually count teeth was considered a vulgar, inferior way of doing this...

    Bullsh*t, it would seem, has always been more highly prized than ability
  • I am going to say - sadly - that I think more restrictions are on the way.

    I'm going to discuss with my counsellor whether they will do remote sessions as otherwise I really will struggle to cope

    This was my response to you on the last thread and I say it to you in all sincerity

    'Please try not to panic

    I know we do not agree on many things but we share an important issue

    My eldest son (55) is seriously ill with PTSD and anxiety and has been for two years and I really do want to encourage you to try to relax as much as you can and of course keep in regular contact with your advisor and maintain your medication doses

    I would just gentle suggest that PB at times can be very stressful and maybe give yourself some quiet time

    All the very best in your treatments'

  • Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited December 2021


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    To defend Boris on this one......the general public don't listen to HoC announcements. They perceive it as yah boo nonsense.

    However, I thought the fudge that Hoyle came up with was fine. You can give your statement, but I want a minister to also give it to the house.

    However, in this case, that would be another day gone by.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,000
    Dole offices, hospital administrators, home office. Anybody who makes decisions directly about members of the public, whether face to face or in a back room, should be part of a professional regulation authority, like lawyers and doctors, and should be able to be struck off for misconduct. (How those authorities operate, and so forth, becomes a recursive question).

    In an era when there won't be much money, the imperative to do right by the public would be a strong signal.

    Nothing to hide, nothing to fear. An excellent phrase if applied to how public services should act towards the public in all they do. A terrible one to bully the public into accepting Draconian regulation when it quite patently isn't true.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,281

    Back - and in first place :wink:

    And great to see you back too!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,298
    edited December 2021

    My professional line is the provision pf Portfolio, Programme and Project office management. I genuinely believe that a lot of what I do is overly complex and - to be blunt - mumbo jumbo. I think the same applies to the provision of public services and delivery services generally. The desire to spread best practice has resulted in more bureaucracy, more box ticking and lower quality. It also allows people to hide behind following process when they mess up. We really need to refocus the police on catching criminals and deterring wrongdoing. Surely we can focus on what is important and simplify procedures.

    Here they didn't even follow process. But your point is a good one. I think that the police spend too much time on incidentals and far too little on the essence of their craft - investigations. It is a mixture of art and science but however it is done it needs a laser-like focus on collecting, testing and understanding the evidence.

    That can never be done effectively if you spend your time worrying about other matters or being blinded by your own prejudices. The police are in danger both of forgetting what their job is and how to do it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,281

    I am going to say - sadly - that I think more restrictions are on the way.

    I'm going to discuss with my counsellor whether they will do remote sessions as otherwise I really will struggle to cope

    They really ought to. Any counsellor not offering remote sessions these days would be unusual to say the least.
    There are plenty doing precious little else.
  • dixiedean said:

    Back - and in first place :wink:

    And great to see you back too!
    Hear hear, hope you are well
  • @dixiedean Really pleased you're on the right track, sending my very best to you all
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,298

    Cyclefree said:

    Humph!

    Still, women in 1st and 2nd place.

    All is as it should be in a well-ordered universe.

    :smiley:

    Nonetheless, I think your points about competence are valid, but in some respects twas ever thus. New systems are put in place by able, competent people who put in the hard work and eventually, if they are successful, those systems or positions become desirable for the sort of parasite for whom, power, prestige and position is more important than the ability to do things correctly.

    A good example would be the institutional sneering that has existed for decades, perhaps centuries, of what we now call the STEM subjects. Some aspects of this even goes back to the ancient Greeks when Aristotle proved by pure reason that women have fewer teeth than man. To actually count teeth was considered a vulgar, inferior way of doing this...

    Bullsh*t, it would seem, has always been more highly prized than ability
    I agree. I just think that a focus on ability and being competent might - after the last few years - prove politically attractive. Or maybe that's just me.

    A good politician ought to be making the case for this and showing how this will benefit the public in all sorts of ways.

    An impossibly naive dream, I know.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,380
    Cyclefree said:

    My professional line is the provision pf Portfolio, Programme and Project office management. I genuinely believe that a lot of what I do is overly complex and - to be blunt - mumbo jumbo. I think the same applies to the provision of public services and delivery services generally. The desire to spread best practice has resulted in more bureaucracy, more box ticking and lower quality. It also allows people to hide behind following process when they mess up. We really need to refocus the police on catching criminals and deterring wrongdoing. Surely we can focus on what is important and simplify procedures.

    Here they didn't even follow process. But your point is a good one. I think that the police spend too much time on incidentals and far too little on the essence of their craft - investigations. It is a mixture of art and science but however it is done it needs a laser-like focus on collecting, testing and understanding the evidence.

    That can never be done effectively if you spend your time worrying about other matters or being blinded by your own prejudices. The police are in danger both of forgetting what their job is and how to do it.
    I have heard, from policemen, that actual, movie style whodunnit investigations are so rare, that it is hard to build the skills.
  • shinydoc
    @irishayesha
    I love how I, an actual GP...who was involved in the initial covid vaccination programme ...has to tune in at 8pm with the public to find out that apparently we are vaccinating the entire adult population with boosters by the end of the year
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,380

    You'd think that three dead bodies found in the same place might have raised a police eyebrow.

    You haven't watched Hot Fuzz?
  • You'd think that three dead bodies found in the same place might have raised a police eyebrow.

    You haven't watched Hot Fuzz?
    The greater good
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,472

    shinydoc
    @irishayesha
    I love how I, an actual GP...who was involved in the initial covid vaccination programme ...has to tune in at 8pm with the public to find out that apparently we are vaccinating the entire adult population with boosters by the end of the year

    Because GPs are useless arseholes who went begging for money instead of actually giving any fucks about patients. The biggest hold up wasn't cancelling other appointments it was increasing booster payments to £30.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,380

    You'd think that three dead bodies found in the same place might have raised a police eyebrow.

    You haven't watched Hot Fuzz?
    The greater good
    Yarp
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689

    You'd think that three dead bodies found in the same place might have raised a police eyebrow.

    You haven't watched Hot Fuzz?
    The greater good
    The greater good
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094
    FPT for max



    ‘Alpha hospitalised at a rate of 5%, Delta at a rate of 8%, I'm not sure a 1% hospitalisation rate in a less boosted country is much to worry about.’

    ++++++


    It’s far too early to say. Omicron cases in Denmark have only just kicked off. A week ago there were barely any. See here


    ‘1 Dec = 6
    2 Dec = 14
    3 Dec = 18
    4 Dec = 84 (?)
    5 Dec = 183
    6 Dec = 261
    7 Dec = 398
    8 Dec = 577
    9 Dec = 796
    10 Dec =1,280
    11 Dec = 1,840
    12 Dec = 2,471

    Most cases are in 20-29-year-olds.

    27 in hospital (8 hospital-acquired).

    DK = 76.5% fully vaxxed.’

    https://twitter.com/caerage/status/1470138564612665345?s=21

    Let’s hope the hospitalisation rate stays at 1%. Otherwise we’re fucked

    This exponential curve will hit every country, of course
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,472
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    ‘Latest Omicron stats for Denmark Dec 12: Out of ~2500 cases, 13 % not vaxed, 75 % vaxed (2 doses) and 10 % boosted (3 doses). ~1 % hospitalized. files.ssi.dk/covid19/omikro…’

    https://twitter.com/piamarken/status/1470164175980748801?s=21

    1% we can live with. I don't think it will be that high either here given the advanced state of the booster programme among over 50s.
    Unfortunately it’s too early to say. Hospitalisations lag

    What we can say is that Omicron is even more transmissible than we thought. It is doubling in Denmark, the UK, Holland every ~1.6 days

    Omicron will become the dominant strain in Denmark THIS WEEK


    ‘#Omicron estimated to become dominant in 🇩🇰 on Tuesday, Dec. 14th, and ~97% by🎄

    DAILY progression is on par with WEEKLY progression for #Alpha (🇬🇧variant) a year ago.

    Underlying methods (applied to #Alpha and #Delta) described here: arxiv.org/abs/2110.00533’

    https://twitter.com/profphansen/status/1469528190888652804?s=21

    It’s going to be brutal, but it’s going to be quick
    Alpha hospitalised at a rate of 5%, Delta at a rate of 8%, I'm not sure a 1% hospitalisation rate in a less boosted country is much to worry about.
    It’s far too early to say. Omicron cases in Denmark have only just kicked off. A week ago there were barely any. See here


    ‘1 Dec = 6
    2 Dec = 14
    3 Dec = 18
    4 Dec = 84 (?)
    5 Dec = 183
    6 Dec = 261
    7 Dec = 398
    8 Dec = 577
    9 Dec = 796
    10 Dec =1,280
    11 Dec = 1,840
    12 Dec = 2,471

    Most cases are in 20-29-year-olds.

    27 in hospital (8 hospital-acquired).

    DK = 76.5% fully vaxxed.’

    https://twitter.com/caerage/status/1470138564612665345?s=21

    Let’s hope the hospitalisation rate stays at 1%. Otherwise we’re fucked

    This exponential curve will hit every country, of course
    Yes, but exponents have an S shape, ultimately it will have a natural limit on the number of infected people at any one time within an ecosystem before it starts bumping into too many substandard hosts. It's probably not as high as 1m, I still haven't got any clue as to whether that was per day or at any one time. It seems extremely unlikely to be per day because it implies an infection rate of at least 1 in 8, possibly as high as 1 in 5. That's incredibly unlikely.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,920


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

    Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.
  • dixiedean said:

    Back - and in first place :wink:

    And great to see you back too!
    Thank you :smile:
  • @Beibheirli_C it was meant to, I already wished @dixiedean best before
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,380
    Farooq said:

    You'd think that three dead bodies found in the same place might have raised a police eyebrow.

    You haven't watched Hot Fuzz?
    The greater good
    The greater good
    He is not Judge Judy and executioner!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 1,030
    On topic. The Met should be disbanded, starting at the top. Everyone should have to reapply for their job, starting with Cressida Dick. They should be interviewed for their job by competent and trustworthy officers from other, more competent forces. If they don’t meet the standards met by other forces, then they don’t get reappointed. There may be some forces (Derbyshire, South Yorkshire, etc,) that don’t get invited to help with the interview process. It may be that, by the time the process reaches Sergeant level, that the incompetents have been weeded out, or can weed out the incompetent Sergeants and Constables themselves. National specialisms should be part of a National force, not part of the Met.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,380
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Humph!

    Still, women in 1st and 2nd place.

    All is as it should be in a well-ordered universe.

    :smiley:

    Nonetheless, I think your points about competence are valid, but in some respects twas ever thus. New systems are put in place by able, competent people who put in the hard work and eventually, if they are successful, those systems or positions become desirable for the sort of parasite for whom, power, prestige and position is more important than the ability to do things correctly.

    A good example would be the institutional sneering that has existed for decades, perhaps centuries, of what we now call the STEM subjects. Some aspects of this even goes back to the ancient Greeks when Aristotle proved by pure reason that women have fewer teeth than man. To actually count teeth was considered a vulgar, inferior way of doing this...

    Bullsh*t, it would seem, has always been more highly prized than ability
    I agree. I just think that a focus on ability and being competent might - after the last few years - prove politically attractive. Or maybe that's just me.

    A good politician ought to be making the case for this and showing how this will benefit the public in all sorts of ways.

    An impossibly naive dream, I know.
    No, facts are offensive and oppressive. Feels is more important.

    They Feel Your Pain. So Lessons Will be Learned.

    You will be ProtectServed by the SAPD.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,472


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

    Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.
    Agree Nick, I'm hardly his number one fan, far from it, this statement needed to be made and as far and wide as possible. Get your booster, get is soon and don't wait. My wife and I are going to chance a local walk in centre tomorrow rather than wait for Friday.
  • MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    ‘Latest Omicron stats for Denmark Dec 12: Out of ~2500 cases, 13 % not vaxed, 75 % vaxed (2 doses) and 10 % boosted (3 doses). ~1 % hospitalized. files.ssi.dk/covid19/omikro…’

    https://twitter.com/piamarken/status/1470164175980748801?s=21

    1% we can live with. I don't think it will be that high either here given the advanced state of the booster programme among over 50s.
    Unfortunately it’s too early to say. Hospitalisations lag

    What we can say is that Omicron is even more transmissible than we thought. It is doubling in Denmark, the UK, Holland every ~1.6 days

    Omicron will become the dominant strain in Denmark THIS WEEK


    ‘#Omicron estimated to become dominant in 🇩🇰 on Tuesday, Dec. 14th, and ~97% by🎄

    DAILY progression is on par with WEEKLY progression for #Alpha (🇬🇧variant) a year ago.

    Underlying methods (applied to #Alpha and #Delta) described here: arxiv.org/abs/2110.00533’

    https://twitter.com/profphansen/status/1469528190888652804?s=21

    It’s going to be brutal, but it’s going to be quick
    Alpha hospitalised at a rate of 5%, Delta at a rate of 8%, I'm not sure a 1% hospitalisation rate in a less boosted country is much to worry about.
    It’s far too early to say. Omicron cases in Denmark have only just kicked off. A week ago there were barely any. See here


    ‘1 Dec = 6
    2 Dec = 14
    3 Dec = 18
    4 Dec = 84 (?)
    5 Dec = 183
    6 Dec = 261
    7 Dec = 398
    8 Dec = 577
    9 Dec = 796
    10 Dec =1,280
    11 Dec = 1,840
    12 Dec = 2,471

    Most cases are in 20-29-year-olds.

    27 in hospital (8 hospital-acquired).

    DK = 76.5% fully vaxxed.’

    https://twitter.com/caerage/status/1470138564612665345?s=21

    Let’s hope the hospitalisation rate stays at 1%. Otherwise we’re fucked

    This exponential curve will hit every country, of course
    Yes, but exponents have an S shape, ultimately it will have a natural limit on the number of infected people at any one time within an ecosystem before it starts bumping into too many substandard hosts. It's probably not as high as 1m, I still haven't got any clue as to whether that was per day or at any one time. It seems extremely unlikely to be per day because it implies an infection rate of at least 1 in 8, possibly as high as 1 in 5. That's incredibly unlikely.
    Interesting that from that tweet it seems DK is very specific about hospital acquired covid cases.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,920
    Incidentally and anecdotally, on my team's regular leaflet outing today, we were struck by a change of mood. People normally glance at us, possibly smile, or not, and look away. Today we were stopped five times by passers-by saying variations on "Thank goodness we've got some sensible people like you around". This was on village streets in outer Godalming which traditionally vote Tory. There's a craving for serious purpose out there, and perhaps Johnson's statement tonight was a reflection of that.
  • xxxxx5xxxxx5 Posts: 15
    Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.
  • There is already a beer - Sweet Victory, Bitter Hops. (Great brewery tap if you are ever in Haarlem) https://www.facebook.com/449971568349898/posts/5198094113537596/
  • dixiedean said:

    Back - and in first place :wink:

    And great to see you back too!
    Hear hear, hope you are well
    Thank you. From reading your posts it seems that you are having some difficult times. I hope things improve for you.

    These days, I no longer need the counselling and pshrinks once I had figured out my depression triggers and my coping strategies. I hope you too discover whatever it is that helps you.
  • OT for maths in government fans. The Irish National Lottery jackpot has not been won since June, and operators have been summonsed to explain to Irish MPs (TDs) why not.
    https://www.msn.com/en-ie/sport/other/still-no-winner-of-lotto-jackpot-but-two-lucky-punters-have-massive-wins/ar-AARJveA
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 565
    edited December 2021


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

    Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.
    I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

    Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094
    MaxPB said:


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

    Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.
    Agree Nick, I'm hardly his number one fan, far from it, this statement needed to be made and as far and wide as possible. Get your booster, get is soon and don't wait. My wife and I are going to chance a local walk in centre tomorrow rather than wait for Friday.
    Yes. The overwhelming lesson from the latest data is GET FUCKING BOOSTERED. Boris was quite right to make that speech, nationwide, tonight

    This is a national emergency. If Omicron is as virulent as Delta we are facing something very very bad indeed; if, as we all hope, it is milder - as some early evidence strongly suggests - then it still has the capacity to knacker the NHS and the wider economy because of its insane transmissibility

    And boosters are absolutely the best line of defence. They are the RAF in 1940

    I’m not sure any lockdown can seriously slow, let alone stop this thing
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 47,992
    edited December 2021
    RH1992 said:


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

    Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.
    I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

    Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.
    Case to report by the end of this week

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470156150687547400?t=byDQltg0UY1gGp4jJVWGUQ&s=19
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,298

    Cyclefree said:

    My professional line is the provision pf Portfolio, Programme and Project office management. I genuinely believe that a lot of what I do is overly complex and - to be blunt - mumbo jumbo. I think the same applies to the provision of public services and delivery services generally. The desire to spread best practice has resulted in more bureaucracy, more box ticking and lower quality. It also allows people to hide behind following process when they mess up. We really need to refocus the police on catching criminals and deterring wrongdoing. Surely we can focus on what is important and simplify procedures.

    Here they didn't even follow process. But your point is a good one. I think that the police spend too much time on incidentals and far too little on the essence of their craft - investigations. It is a mixture of art and science but however it is done it needs a laser-like focus on collecting, testing and understanding the evidence.

    That can never be done effectively if you spend your time worrying about other matters or being blinded by your own prejudices. The police are in danger both of forgetting what their job is and how to do it.
    I have heard, from policemen, that actual, movie style whodunnit investigations are so rare, that it is hard to build the skills.
    What the actual fuck do they do then all day? In nearly 14 years my team did ca 5000 investigations, including cases which will be in the history books.

    Might they try investigating low level crimes (burglary, for instance) or the very many frauds that get reported to them every day in order to build the bloody skills? That just sounds like an excuse.

    Incidentally and anecdotally, on my team's regular leaflet outing today, we were struck by a change of mood. People normally glance at us, possibly smile, or not, and look away. Today we were stopped five times by passers-by saying variations on "Thank goodness we've got some sensible people like you around". This was on village streets in outer Godalming which traditionally vote Tory. There's a craving for serious purpose out there, and perhaps Johnson's statement tonight was a reflection of that.

    Your last sentence reflects in part what my header is about. Seriousness and competence can achieve so much more than bullshit and blather.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,472
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

    Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.
    Agree Nick, I'm hardly his number one fan, far from it, this statement needed to be made and as far and wide as possible. Get your booster, get is soon and don't wait. My wife and I are going to chance a local walk in centre tomorrow rather than wait for Friday.
    Yes. The overwhelming lesson from the latest data is GET FUCKING BOOSTERED. Boris was quite right to make that speech, nationwide, tonight

    This is a national emergency. If Omicron is as virulent as Delta we are facing something very very bad indeed; if, as we all hope, it is milder - as some early evidence strongly suggests - then it still has the capacity to knacker the NHS and the wider economy because of its insane transmissibility

    And boosters are absolutely the best line of defence. They are the RAF in 1940

    I’m not sure any lockdown can seriously slow, let alone stop this thing
    Yup, and possibly get a fourth for all over 50s in March. We have the supply.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,298
    xxxxx5 said:

    Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

    I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 14,756
    Is there any news yet on whether anyone in the UK or Europe has died from the new variant?
  • Leon said:

    MaxPB said:


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

    Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.
    Agree Nick, I'm hardly his number one fan, far from it, this statement needed to be made and as far and wide as possible. Get your booster, get is soon and don't wait. My wife and I are going to chance a local walk in centre tomorrow rather than wait for Friday.
    Yes. The overwhelming lesson from the latest data is GET FUCKING BOOSTERED. Boris was quite right to make that speech, nationwide, tonight

    This is a national emergency. If Omicron is as virulent as Delta we are facing something very very bad indeed; if, as we all hope, it is milder - as some early evidence strongly suggests - then it still has the capacity to knacker the NHS and the wider economy because of its insane transmissibility

    And boosters are absolutely the best line of defence. They are the RAF in 1940

    I’m not sure any lockdown can seriously slow, let alone stop this thing
    Is the capacity there yet? Look how many times even PBers have posted in the past few days that they've not been able to book their boosters yet. I've been done myself, and have visited a pharmacy doing walk-ins, and both venues seemed to be fully occupied. Boris wants to boost the rest of the country by the end of the month but that is only two weeks away (allowing a couple of days off for Christmas).
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    edited December 2021

    RH1992 said:


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

    Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.
    I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

    Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.
    Case to report by the end of this week

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470156150687547400?t=byDQltg0UY1gGp4jJVWGUQ&s=19
    Everybody likes to get their work done before the work Christmas do on the last full Friday before Christmas.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,800
    Is this another sign that the threat from Omicron is being overstated?

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-12-10/omicron-was-in-california-weeks-ago-water-samples-suggest

    The Omicron strain of the coronavirus was detected in California’s wastewater last month, even before the World Health Organization declared it a “variant of concern,” lab data suggest.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,298
    Farooq said:

    RH1992 said:


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

    Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.
    I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

    Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.
    Case to report by the end of this week

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470156150687547400?t=byDQltg0UY1gGp4jJVWGUQ&s=19
    Everybody likes to get their work done before the work Christmas do on the last full Friday before Christmas.
    Case couldn't investigate his way into his own trousers. No offence but this is not what senior civil servants are trained to or good at doing. He is also likely conflicted. If they want a proper investigation get a proper investigator. If ....

  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    edited December 2021
    Cyclefree said:

    Farooq said:

    RH1992 said:


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

    Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.
    I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

    Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.
    Case to report by the end of this week

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470156150687547400?t=byDQltg0UY1gGp4jJVWGUQ&s=19
    Everybody likes to get their work done before the work Christmas do on the last full Friday before Christmas.
    Case couldn't investigate his way into his own trousers. No offence but this is not what senior civil servants are trained to or good at doing. He is also likely conflicted. If they want a proper investigation get a proper investigator. If ....

    One of the things I would avoid doing is setting an early deadline or target for reporting back. That's only going to make it easier to batten down the hatches. But what do I know?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,298
    edited December 2021
    Farooq said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Farooq said:

    RH1992 said:


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

    Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.
    I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

    Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.
    Case to report by the end of this week

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470156150687547400?t=byDQltg0UY1gGp4jJVWGUQ&s=19
    Everybody likes to get their work done before the work Christmas do on the last full Friday before Christmas.
    Case couldn't investigate his way into his own trousers. No offence but this is not what senior civil servants are trained to or good at doing. He is also likely conflicted. If they want a proper investigation get a proper investigator. If ....

    One of the things I would avoid doing is setting an early deadline or target for reporting back. That's only going to make it easier to batten down the hatches. But what do I know?
    I know exactly how I'd do an investigation of this type, what to look at, what evidence to get hold of etc. I'll bet none of it is being done or done in the way that it should be. The timing is less of an issue. The amateurishness of it will be.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    My professional line is the provision pf Portfolio, Programme and Project office management. I genuinely believe that a lot of what I do is overly complex and - to be blunt - mumbo jumbo. I think the same applies to the provision of public services and delivery services generally. The desire to spread best practice has resulted in more bureaucracy, more box ticking and lower quality. It also allows people to hide behind following process when they mess up. We really need to refocus the police on catching criminals and deterring wrongdoing. Surely we can focus on what is important and simplify procedures.

    Here they didn't even follow process. But your point is a good one. I think that the police spend too much time on incidentals and far too little on the essence of their craft - investigations. It is a mixture of art and science but however it is done it needs a laser-like focus on collecting, testing and understanding the evidence.

    That can never be done effectively if you spend your time worrying about other matters or being blinded by your own prejudices. The police are in danger both of forgetting what their job is and how to do it.
    I have heard, from policemen, that actual, movie style whodunnit investigations are so rare, that it is hard to build the skills.
    What the actual fuck do they do then all day? In nearly 14 years my team did ca 5000 investigations, including cases which will be in the history books.

    Might they try investigating low level crimes (burglary, for instance) or the very many frauds that get reported to them every day in order to build the bloody skills? That just sounds like an excuse
    Maybe part of the problem is over-specialisation. This looks like a murder so rather than investigate it, we'll pitch it to a specialist murder squad and hope they are interested. They weren't, so now what? All we've done is ensure that neither the local nor specialist team has the full picture.

    I don't know. Port should have been stopped after the first murder but when he wasn't, failure to link the three cases where the victims were dumped in the same spot beggars belief. Maybe we need some AI app that will scan police databases looking for common factors in unlinked cases. Aiui there will be a BBC dramadoc on this case soon which might wake up a few MPs.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,281
    MaxPB said:


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

    Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.
    Agree Nick, I'm hardly his number one fan, far from it, this statement needed to be made and as far and wide as possible. Get your booster, get is soon and don't wait. My wife and I are going to chance a local walk in centre tomorrow rather than wait for Friday.
    Yep. Bloody get on with it mate.
    I was booked for last Wednesday. Didn't really investigate if I could bring it forward cos it would have been a few days at most, and what was the point, as I'd been being super careful to not catch it in the run up anyways?
    Tested positive on the morning of my booster. Now I'm locked up till Friday. And it has been "mild". But not pleasant.
    Everyone who can, bring it forward as much as you can.
    Don't be like me.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094

    Is this another sign that the threat from Omicron is being overstated?

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-12-10/omicron-was-in-california-weeks-ago-water-samples-suggest

    The Omicron strain of the coronavirus was detected in California’s wastewater last month, even before the World Health Organization declared it a “variant of concern,” lab data suggest.

    Denmark has maybe the best sequencing in the world. I’d trust their data over any random waste-water sampling anywhere else.

    Maybe some random Saffer took a leak in a stopover at LAX. What does it prove?

    American complacency in general over Omicron is mystifying. It will hit them in a week or two (or before) and follow the exact same curve as Denmark, UK

    I note Omicron is now a newsworthy issue in Ontario


    ‘ UPDATE: Latest Omicron estimates from Ontario Science Table. Rt for Omicron estimated at 3.32 compared to 1.11 for Delta. Omicron share has climbed to 20.8%. It's doubling time is 3 days.
    #covid19ontario #onhealth #onpoli #onted #Billius27’


    https://twitter.com/billius27/status/1470086698726010881?s=21
  • Cyclefree said:

    Farooq said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Farooq said:

    RH1992 said:


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

    Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.
    I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

    Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.
    Case to report by the end of this week

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470156150687547400?t=byDQltg0UY1gGp4jJVWGUQ&s=19
    Everybody likes to get their work done before the work Christmas do on the last full Friday before Christmas.
    Case couldn't investigate his way into his own trousers. No offence but this is not what senior civil servants are trained to or good at doing. He is also likely conflicted. If they want a proper investigation get a proper investigator. If ....

    One of the things I would avoid doing is setting an early deadline or target for reporting back. That's only going to make it easier to batten down the hatches. But what do I know?
    I know exactly how I'd do an investigation of this type, what to look at, what evidence to get hold of etc. I'll bet none of it is being done or done in the way that it should be. The timing is less of an issue. The amateurishness of it will be.
    Maybe that is the point. Government inquiries are for setting up, as Sir Humphrey might have said.
  • So, what's the feeling? Another promise from Johnson that will be nowhere near met?

    Millions and millions of jabs by new years day?

    If he doesn't meet it, the Tory faithful here will deny it was ever said
    You really are quite bitter and twisted aren't you?

    You come across as someone who would rather see the whole country plunged into misery and lockdown than see the country come through the winter well under a Tory PM.
    If Labour were in office you would be as partisan
    No, I wouldn't.

    I have my own principles and I stick by them, I don't change them to suit whatever team are in power.
    My irony meter exploded. You're one of the most nakedly partisan posters here Philip, you're never ever wrong. And that's why I like conversing with you
    If I'm wrong I admit I'm wrong and move on.

    I'm not partisan, I'm opinionated, there's a difference. If I was partisan I'd be saying what a great idea mask mandates and the NI tax rise are because that's what 'my side' are doing. Instead I'm vitriolically attacking what used to be 'my side' is doing.

    That's not partisanship, its having your own mind.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,281
    xxxxx5 said:

    Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

    Yes you are right. It was far more complex than fear of racism. Though that played a large part, there was much, much more.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,298
    Cyclefree said:

    Farooq said:

    RH1992 said:


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

    Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.
    I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

    Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.
    Case to report by the end of this week

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470156150687547400?t=byDQltg0UY1gGp4jJVWGUQ&s=19
    Everybody likes to get their work done before the work Christmas do on the last full Friday before Christmas.
    Case couldn't investigate his way into his own trousers. No offence but this is not what senior civil servants are trained to or good at doing. He is also likely conflicted. If they want a proper investigation get a proper investigator. If ....

    Oh look - those pesky conflicts of interest have already raised their head - https://twitter.com/direthoughts/status/1470177751277707275?s=21.

    Also a strange definition of "external" - https://twitter.com/direthoughts/status/1470178115762667527?s=21.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,380
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    My professional line is the provision pf Portfolio, Programme and Project office management. I genuinely believe that a lot of what I do is overly complex and - to be blunt - mumbo jumbo. I think the same applies to the provision of public services and delivery services generally. The desire to spread best practice has resulted in more bureaucracy, more box ticking and lower quality. It also allows people to hide behind following process when they mess up. We really need to refocus the police on catching criminals and deterring wrongdoing. Surely we can focus on what is important and simplify procedures.

    Here they didn't even follow process. But your point is a good one. I think that the police spend too much time on incidentals and far too little on the essence of their craft - investigations. It is a mixture of art and science but however it is done it needs a laser-like focus on collecting, testing and understanding the evidence.

    That can never be done effectively if you spend your time worrying about other matters or being blinded by your own prejudices. The police are in danger both of forgetting what their job is and how to do it.
    I have heard, from policemen, that actual, movie style whodunnit investigations are so rare, that it is hard to build the skills.
    What the actual fuck do they do then all day? In nearly 14 years my team did ca 5000 investigations, including cases which will be in the history books.

    Might they try investigating low level crimes (burglary, for instance) or the very many frauds that get reported to them every day in order to build the bloody skills? That just sounds like an excuse.

    Incidentally and anecdotally, on my team's regular leaflet outing today, we were struck by a change of mood. People normally glance at us, possibly smile, or not, and look away. Today we were stopped five times by passers-by saying variations on "Thank goodness we've got some sensible people like you around". This was on village streets in outer Godalming which traditionally vote Tory. There's a craving for serious purpose out there, and perhaps Johnson's statement tonight was a reflection of that.

    Your last sentence reflects in part what my header is about. Seriousness and competence can achieve so much more than bullshit and blather.
    From what I heard - it's 99% social work, ignoring crimes that aren't on the given list of what they are supposed to be "interested in" and dealing with crimes committed by fuckwits in front of cameras. The policemen in question weren't impressed either.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,298

    Cyclefree said:

    Farooq said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Farooq said:

    RH1992 said:


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

    Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.
    I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

    Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.
    Case to report by the end of this week

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470156150687547400?t=byDQltg0UY1gGp4jJVWGUQ&s=19
    Everybody likes to get their work done before the work Christmas do on the last full Friday before Christmas.
    Case couldn't investigate his way into his own trousers. No offence but this is not what senior civil servants are trained to or good at doing. He is also likely conflicted. If they want a proper investigation get a proper investigator. If ....

    One of the things I would avoid doing is setting an early deadline or target for reporting back. That's only going to make it easier to batten down the hatches. But what do I know?
    I know exactly how I'd do an investigation of this type, what to look at, what evidence to get hold of etc. I'll bet none of it is being done or done in the way that it should be. The timing is less of an issue. The amateurishness of it will be.
    Maybe that is the point. Government inquiries are for setting up, as Sir Humphrey might have said.
    Yes - they may as well be called the Kicking into the Long Grass Inquiry.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,920
    RH1992 said:


    Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

    Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.
    I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

    Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.
    Actually I'm Remain and Corbynite Twitter with the best of them. But we don't need to be politicking 24*7; on occasion, there's a more immediate priority.
  • Boris Johnson in talks to hire ‘hard man’ ally of Sir Lynton Crosby as No 10 enforcer

    PM said to be close to acquiring the services of David Canzini to bring rebellious Tory MPs back into line, The Telegraph understands

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/12/boris-johnson-talks-hire-hard-man-ally-sir-lynton-crosby-no/ (£££)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,298

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    My professional line is the provision pf Portfolio, Programme and Project office management. I genuinely believe that a lot of what I do is overly complex and - to be blunt - mumbo jumbo. I think the same applies to the provision of public services and delivery services generally. The desire to spread best practice has resulted in more bureaucracy, more box ticking and lower quality. It also allows people to hide behind following process when they mess up. We really need to refocus the police on catching criminals and deterring wrongdoing. Surely we can focus on what is important and simplify procedures.

    Here they didn't even follow process. But your point is a good one. I think that the police spend too much time on incidentals and far too little on the essence of their craft - investigations. It is a mixture of art and science but however it is done it needs a laser-like focus on collecting, testing and understanding the evidence.

    That can never be done effectively if you spend your time worrying about other matters or being blinded by your own prejudices. The police are in danger both of forgetting what their job is and how to do it.
    I have heard, from policemen, that actual, movie style whodunnit investigations are so rare, that it is hard to build the skills.
    What the actual fuck do they do then all day? In nearly 14 years my team did ca 5000 investigations, including cases which will be in the history books.

    Might they try investigating low level crimes (burglary, for instance) or the very many frauds that get reported to them every day in order to build the bloody skills? That just sounds like an excuse.

    Incidentally and anecdotally, on my team's regular leaflet outing today, we were struck by a change of mood. People normally glance at us, possibly smile, or not, and look away. Today we were stopped five times by passers-by saying variations on "Thank goodness we've got some sensible people like you around". This was on village streets in outer Godalming which traditionally vote Tory. There's a craving for serious purpose out there, and perhaps Johnson's statement tonight was a reflection of that.

    Your last sentence reflects in part what my header is about. Seriousness and competence can achieve so much more than bullshit and blather.
    From what I heard - it's 99% social work, ignoring crimes that aren't on the given list of what they are supposed to be "interested in" and dealing with crimes committed by fuckwits in front of cameras. The policemen in question weren't impressed either.
    What I find extraordinary is the idea that some crimes can simply be ignored.

    Every single thing that came to my team I had to deal with. I could not simply ignore it. The option of saying "oh here's a number, you are 489 in the queue but your call is very important. Let me play some music at you until you die of boredom or fuck off" simply wasn't an option.

    So how do the police get to do this?
  • xxxxx5xxxxx5 Posts: 15
    Cyclefree said:

    xxxxx5 said:

    Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

    I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.
    I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.
  • Boris Johnson in talks to hire ‘hard man’ ally of Sir Lynton Crosby as No 10 enforcer

    PM said to be close to acquiring the services of David Canzini to bring rebellious Tory MPs back into line, The Telegraph understands

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/12/boris-johnson-talks-hire-hard-man-ally-sir-lynton-crosby-no/ (£££)

    Dead cat....thud.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,380
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    My professional line is the provision pf Portfolio, Programme and Project office management. I genuinely believe that a lot of what I do is overly complex and - to be blunt - mumbo jumbo. I think the same applies to the provision of public services and delivery services generally. The desire to spread best practice has resulted in more bureaucracy, more box ticking and lower quality. It also allows people to hide behind following process when they mess up. We really need to refocus the police on catching criminals and deterring wrongdoing. Surely we can focus on what is important and simplify procedures.

    Here they didn't even follow process. But your point is a good one. I think that the police spend too much time on incidentals and far too little on the essence of their craft - investigations. It is a mixture of art and science but however it is done it needs a laser-like focus on collecting, testing and understanding the evidence.

    That can never be done effectively if you spend your time worrying about other matters or being blinded by your own prejudices. The police are in danger both of forgetting what their job is and how to do it.
    I have heard, from policemen, that actual, movie style whodunnit investigations are so rare, that it is hard to build the skills.
    What the actual fuck do they do then all day? In nearly 14 years my team did ca 5000 investigations, including cases which will be in the history books.

    Might they try investigating low level crimes (burglary, for instance) or the very many frauds that get reported to them every day in order to build the bloody skills? That just sounds like an excuse.

    Incidentally and anecdotally, on my team's regular leaflet outing today, we were struck by a change of mood. People normally glance at us, possibly smile, or not, and look away. Today we were stopped five times by passers-by saying variations on "Thank goodness we've got some sensible people like you around". This was on village streets in outer Godalming which traditionally vote Tory. There's a craving for serious purpose out there, and perhaps Johnson's statement tonight was a reflection of that.

    Your last sentence reflects in part what my header is about. Seriousness and competence can achieve so much more than bullshit and blather.
    From what I heard - it's 99% social work, ignoring crimes that aren't on the given list of what they are supposed to be "interested in" and dealing with crimes committed by fuckwits in front of cameras. The policemen in question weren't impressed either.
    What I find extraordinary is the idea that some crimes can simply be ignored.

    Every single thing that came to my team I had to deal with. I could not simply ignore it. The option of saying "oh here's a number, you are 489 in the queue but your call is very important. Let me play some music at you until you die of boredom or fuck off" simply wasn't an option.

    So how do the police get to do this?
    Resources.

    It's been that way for many years. An arsehole I used work for had his incredibly expensive bike stolen from the office. At the court case, the lawyer for the thief argued it was unfair that because it was above a certain value, that the theft of the bike had been dealt with as a serious crime - forensics etc.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,298
    xxxxx5 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    xxxxx5 said:

    Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

    I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.
    I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.
    The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

    On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

    No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.
  • New York City reports 4,293 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase since April 8
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,471
    edited December 2021

    Boris Johnson in talks to hire ‘hard man’ ally of Sir Lynton Crosby as No 10 enforcer

    PM said to be close to acquiring the services of David Canzini to bring rebellious Tory MPs back into line, The Telegraph understands

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/12/boris-johnson-talks-hire-hard-man-ally-sir-lynton-crosby-no/ (£££)

    Dead cat....thud.
    Last throw of the dice, more like. The problem's not with Boris but with the team around him. Again.
  • 18 million jabs in 19 days. Ain't going to happen, especially with Christmas. A few bad days and then you soon need to do 1.5 million for a day or two.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094

    New York City reports 4,293 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase since April 8

    Makes sense. If it’s in Ontario it’s in NY

    Look at this bonkers graph from Denmark


    ‘Denmark, already up shit creek because of Delta, has just met Omicron. Near-vertical growth. #auspol #covid19aus’

    https://twitter.com/ragesheen/status/1470125914788818944?s=21
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,471
    edited December 2021
    Cyclefree said:

    xxxxx5 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    xxxxx5 said:

    Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

    I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.
    I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.
    The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

    On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

    No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.
    Most of the victims were living chaotic lifestyles in or on the fringes of the care system. They weren't believed and if they were, they must have been going along with it.
  • We haven't had any talk of all the anti-viral drugs the government ordered. I presume they aren't arriving in time. And remember they need to be taken immediately when you get symptoms, so pissing about with 111 or GP, then them being ordered and delivered in a couple of days is no good.
  • Leon said:

    New York City reports 4,293 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase since April 8

    Makes sense. If it’s in Ontario it’s in NY

    Look at this bonkers graph from Denmark


    ‘Denmark, already up shit creek because of Delta, has just met Omicron. Near-vertical growth. #auspol #covid19aus’

    https://twitter.com/ragesheen/status/1470125914788818944?s=21
    More parabolic than a pump and dump crypto scam....
  • xxxxx5xxxxx5 Posts: 15
    Cyclefree said:

    xxxxx5 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    xxxxx5 said:

    Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

    I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.
    I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.
    The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

    On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

    No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.
    Isnt she eligible for parole at 29 years? A whole life order means without parole doesn't it? Nothing surprises me anymore but surely if we cannot trust the police to police our society then we are stuffed.
  • Bucheon in South Korea will use AI, facial recognition and 10,000 CCTV cameras to track COVID-19 cases, their close contacts, and whether they were wearing a mask https://t.co/sQvAbTQ8Yk
  • xxxxx5xxxxx5 Posts: 15
    On topic there is a problem within the gay community of chemsex parties with web sites like Grinder fuelling this. It is not just the killings that Port executed it is the sexual thrill that thousands of gay men are chasing with dangerous consequences. The internet and the easily availability of drugs today make it a toxic environment for those chasing that "thrill" no government can stop this - the problem will go more and more underground

  • Tim Stanley
    @timothy_stanley
    ·
    1h
    I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

    To defend Boris on this one......the general public don't listen to HoC announcements. They perceive it as yah boo nonsense.

    However, I thought the fudge that Hoyle came up with was fine. You can give your statement, but I want a minister to also give it to the house.

    However, in this case, that would be another day gone by.
    In this case, is there anything to actually be announced in the Commons?

    The booster program has already been announced in the Commons, as have the vaccine passports which Boris mentioned as being 'subject to Commons approval' etc

    The timeline is new but does that need to go through Parliament first?

    I don't think there was anything 'new' to announce to Parliament tonight is there?
  • xxxxx5 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    xxxxx5 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    xxxxx5 said:

    Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

    I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.
    I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.
    The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

    On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

    No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.
    Isnt she eligible for parole at 29 years? A whole life order means without parole doesn't it? Nothing surprises me anymore but surely if we cannot trust the police to police our society then we are stuffed.
    Call me old-fashioned but most parents don't need legal deterrents to tell them not to murder their children. Perhaps more education might be in order but that's a separate consideration. TfL has the odd poster on buses with ideas for observation games to amuse toddlers.

    Related to the thread topic, this does seem to have been another failure of investigation but we may learn more when the inquiry reports.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,380

    Cyclefree said:

    xxxxx5 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    xxxxx5 said:

    Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

    I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.
    I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.
    The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

    On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

    No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.
    Most of the victims were living chaotic lifestyles in or on the fringes of the care system. They weren't believed and if they were, they must have been going along with it.
    What seems to be forgotten is how connected the criminals were. Jahangir Akhtar....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited December 2021
    Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

    He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

    “Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

    "Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

    "Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

    “Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

    He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

    ---

    If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,471
    edited December 2021

    Cyclefree said:

    xxxxx5 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    xxxxx5 said:

    Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

    I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.
    I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.
    The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

    On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

    No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.
    Most of the victims were living chaotic lifestyles in or on the fringes of the care system. They weren't believed and if they were, they must have been going along with it.
    What seems to be forgotten is how connected the criminals were. Jahangir Akhtar....
    Surely that is the bit that is remembered. Come to think of it, this is another area where dismantling gangs might have helped.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,380

    Cyclefree said:

    xxxxx5 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    xxxxx5 said:

    Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

    I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.
    I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.
    The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

    On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

    No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.
    Most of the victims were living chaotic lifestyles in or on the fringes of the care system. They weren't believed and if they were, they must have been going along with it.
    What seems to be forgotten is how connected the criminals were. Jahangir Akhtar....
    Surely that is the bit that is remembered.
    There is a convenient memory hole about that. Remember the outrage when a victim suggested that the daughter of one such connected politician shouldn't be dealing with victims personal details?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,281
    edited December 2021

    Cyclefree said:

    xxxxx5 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    xxxxx5 said:

    Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

    I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.
    I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.
    The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

    On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

    No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.
    Most of the victims were living chaotic lifestyles in or on the fringes of the care system. They weren't believed and if they were, they must have been going along with it.
    What seems to be forgotten is how connected the criminals were. Jahangir Akhtar....
    The web is deep and tangled. Ensnaring many. Rather than unpick it we choose fear of racism/lack of funding/chaotic lifestyles/nasty immigrants and their weird religion/ oversexualisation of children/prejudice against the WWC and care Leavers / institutional corruption among many others as simple explanations of a sickness in our society. Delete as appropriate to your prejudices.
    It was all of these and more.
    The deeper we look into the abyss, the more it screams back at us.
    So we fall back on easy answers and slogans.
    Rather than having a close look.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 14,756

    Bucheon in South Korea will use AI, facial recognition and 10,000 CCTV cameras to track COVID-19 cases, their close contacts, and whether they were wearing a mask https://t.co/sQvAbTQ8Yk

    This is getting very close to 1984, however good the intentions may be.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,281

    Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

    He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

    “Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

    "Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

    "Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

    “Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

    He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

    ---

    If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!

    Well indeed. I'd be one of the two. But it still wasn't a great experience. If you're thinking of it clear at least a week off.
  • Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

    He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

    “Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

    "Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

    "Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

    “Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

    He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

    ---

    If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!

    Hopefully this "wave" will be just what people need to snap out of the fear of Covid. If we have a wave of lots of people getting the sniffles, maybe they'll finally snap out of treating Covid like its some sort of evil pox.

    Covid post-vaccines isn't the same thing as the virus that hit a naïve population.
  • dixiedean said:

    Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

    He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

    “Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

    "Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

    "Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

    “Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

    He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

    ---

    If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!

    Well indeed. I'd be one of the two. But it still wasn't a great experience. If you're thinking of it clear at least a week off.
    Just like the flu.

    But a week in bed is still better than six months behind the bedsheets in lockdown.

    I hope you're feeling better now.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,281

    Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

    He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

    “Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

    "Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

    "Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

    “Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

    He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

    ---

    If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!

    Hopefully this "wave" will be just what people need to snap out of the fear of Covid. If we have a wave of lots of people getting the sniffles, maybe they'll finally snap out of treating Covid like its some sort of evil pox.

    Covid post-vaccines isn't the same thing as the virus that hit a naïve population.
    From my experience. It isn't the sniffles. Nor is it the evil pox. It is an unpleasant illness that we aren't experienced in treating yet.
    I still don't understand why you haven't shacked up with someone positive if that is really your view. You don't seem to be putting much effort in.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited December 2021
    dixiedean said:

    Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

    He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

    “Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

    "Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

    "Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

    “Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

    He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

    ---

    If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!

    Hopefully this "wave" will be just what people need to snap out of the fear of Covid. If we have a wave of lots of people getting the sniffles, maybe they'll finally snap out of treating Covid like its some sort of evil pox.

    Covid post-vaccines isn't the same thing as the virus that hit a naïve population.
    From my experience. It isn't the sniffles. Nor is it the evil pox. It is an unpleasant illness that we aren't experienced in treating yet.
    I still don't understand why you haven't shacked up with someone positive if that is really your view. You don't seem to be putting much effort in.
    In all seriousness, I am slightly concerned by this mild narrative. It feels like a repeat of the Wuhan, 90% only get mild disease. Not because I am personally scared, I am triple boosted, right age, fit, but more it just encourages reckless behaviour, especially when interacting with much more vulnerable people, when we aren't 100% sure it is even milder.

    Both my parents are elderly and vulnerable, I will be seeing them over Christmas, but I will do LFT and try and keep out of circulation for a couple of days before I go to see them just to be on the safe side.

    I don't think the PM saying it once today that no proof it is milder and you need to careful will override 2 weeks of daily media interviews with people saying nothing to see here.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,281

    dixiedean said:

    Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

    He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

    “Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

    "Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

    "Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

    “Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

    He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

    ---

    If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!

    Well indeed. I'd be one of the two. But it still wasn't a great experience. If you're thinking of it clear at least a week off.
    Just like the flu.

    But a week in bed is still better than six months behind the bedsheets in lockdown.

    I hope you're feeling better now.
    It is strange. Not like the flu at all. Nor like a cold, but summat different.
    Sorry if I've been a bit chippy with you lately. But it really is something I'd rather not have had. And you give off the impression at least that it isn't much at all.
    Truth is. It isn't nice. And I would prefer no one got it.
    I have some sympathy with your position, in that I think we are past the place of preventing people getting it, but minimising it as an illness isn't the way to go.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,281

    dixiedean said:

    Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

    He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

    “Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

    "Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

    "Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

    “Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

    He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

    ---

    If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!

    Hopefully this "wave" will be just what people need to snap out of the fear of Covid. If we have a wave of lots of people getting the sniffles, maybe they'll finally snap out of treating Covid like its some sort of evil pox.

    Covid post-vaccines isn't the same thing as the virus that hit a naïve population.
    From my experience. It isn't the sniffles. Nor is it the evil pox. It is an unpleasant illness that we aren't experienced in treating yet.
    I still don't understand why you haven't shacked up with someone positive if that is really your view. You don't seem to be putting much effort in.
    In all seriousness, I am slightly concerned by this mild narrative. It feels like a repeat of the Wuhan, 90% only get mild disease. Not because I am personally scared, I am triple boosted, right age, fit, but more it just encourages reckless behaviour, especially when interacting with much more vulnerable people, when we aren't 100% sure it is even milder.

    Both my parents are elderly and vulnerable, I will be seeing them over Christmas, but I will do LFT and try and keep out of circulation for a couple of days before I go to see them just to be on the safe side.

    I don't think the PM saying it once today that no proof it is milder and you need to careful will override 2 weeks of daily media interviews with people saying nothing to see here.
    A feature of my cluster has been repeated negative LFT over several days with symptoms before a positive.
    Runny nose. Sore or tickly throat. From my small sample they are red flags. Positive LFT, and other symptoms, comes 3 or 4 days later.
    That is my entirely anecdotal advice.
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