Don’t tell. Show us. – politicalbetting.com

System

Don’t tell. Show us. – politicalbetting.com

The new Shadow Home Secretary, Yvette Cooper has been tweeting about Boris’s Crime Week and how it hasn’t quite gone to plan. All very enjoyable no doubt and the large Labour poll leads even more so. There is, however, one crime which came to light this week to which Ms Cooper should pay rather more attention, both because it highlights fundamental problems with essential services and, potentially, provides the basis for sensible Labour policies. The crime – or crimes – are the 4 murders between June 2014 and September 2015 by Stephen Port, a serial killer, who killed 4 young gay men, first drugging them, then raping them, then murdering and abandoning their bodies, 3 of them in the same place in a Barking cemetery. What happened to them is distressing. The serial incompetence displayed by the police (the Metropolitan police, in case you were wondering. I know – I was shocked too), extensively aired at the inquest, which concluded this week, must have been equally distressing for the families, not least because had the first murder been investigated properly, it is very likely that 3 young men would still be alive.

Read the full story here

Beibheirli_C

Back - and in first place

Cyclefree

Humph!

Still, women in 1st and 2nd place.

All is as it should be in a well-ordered universe.

CorrectHorseBattery

I am going to say - sadly - that I think more restrictions are on the way.

I'm going to discuss with my counsellor whether they will do remote sessions as otherwise I really will struggle to cope

DecrepiterJohnL

You'd think that three dead bodies found in the same place might have raised a police eyebrow.

DecrepiterJohnL

Re Boris's broadcast.

Maybe the reason he looked so bad was that the in-house Number 10 film crew aren't as good at lighting and even focusing as your actual BBC. Whatever happened to that nice Allegra Stratton?

ExiledInScotland

My professional line is the provision pf Portfolio, Programme and Project office management. I genuinely believe that a lot of what I do is overly complex and - to be blunt - mumbo jumbo. I think the same applies to the provision of public services and delivery services generally. The desire to spread best practice has resulted in more bureaucracy, more box ticking and lower quality. It also allows people to hide behind following process when they mess up. We really need to refocus the police on catching criminals and deterring wrongdoing. Surely we can focus on what is important and simplify procedures.

Cyclefree

DecrepiterJohnL said:

You'd think that three dead bodies found in the same place might have raised a police eyebrow.

Not to mention that the killer admitted lying about how the body of the first victim ended up outside his flat and he was prosecuted for some of his lies.

CorrectHorseBattery

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

rottenborough said:

So, what's the feeling? Another promise from Johnson that will be nowhere near met?

Millions and millions of jabs by new years day?

If he doesn't meet it, the Tory faithful here will deny it was ever said

You really are quite bitter and twisted aren't you?

You come across as someone who would rather see the whole country plunged into misery and lockdown than see the country come through the winter well under a Tory PM.

If Labour were in office you would be as partisan

No, I wouldn't.

I have my own principles and I stick by them, I don't change them to suit whatever team are in power.

My irony meter exploded. You're one of the most nakedly partisan posters here Philip, you're never ever wrong. And that's why I like conversing with you

Beibheirli_C

Cyclefree said:

Humph!

Still, women in 1st and 2nd place.

All is as it should be in a well-ordered universe.

Nonetheless, I think your points about competence are valid, but in some respects twas ever thus. New systems are put in place by able, competent people who put in the hard work and eventually, if they are successful, those systems or positions become desirable for the sort of parasite for whom, power, prestige and position is more important than the ability to do things correctly.

A good example would be the institutional sneering that has existed for decades, perhaps centuries, of what we now call the STEM subjects. Some aspects of this even goes back to the ancient Greeks when Aristotle proved by pure reason that women have fewer teeth than man. To actually count teeth was considered a vulgar, inferior way of doing this...

Bullsh*t, it would seem, has always been more highly prized than ability

Big_G_NorthWales

CorrectHorseBattery said:

I am going to say - sadly - that I think more restrictions are on the way.

I'm going to discuss with my counsellor whether they will do remote sessions as otherwise I really will struggle to cope

This was my response to you on the last thread and I say it to you in all sincerity

'Please try not to panic

I know we do not agree on many things but we share an important issue

My eldest son (55) is seriously ill with PTSD and anxiety and has been for two years and I really do want to encourage you to try to relax as much as you can and of course keep in regular contact with your advisor and maintain your medication doses

I would just gentle suggest that PB at times can be very stressful and maybe give yourself some quiet time

All the very best in your treatments'

rottenborough

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

FrancisUrquhart

rottenborough said:

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

To defend Boris on this one......the general public don't listen to HoC announcements. They perceive it as yah boo nonsense.

However, I thought the fudge that Hoyle came up with was fine. You can give your statement, but I want a minister to also give it to the house.

However, in this case, that would be another day gone by.

Pro_Rata

Dole offices, hospital administrators, home office. Anybody who makes decisions directly about members of the public, whether face to face or in a back room, should be part of a professional regulation authority, like lawyers and doctors, and should be able to be struck off for misconduct. (How those authorities operate, and so forth, becomes a recursive question).

In an era when there won't be much money, the imperative to do right by the public would be a strong signal.

Nothing to hide, nothing to fear. An excellent phrase if applied to how public services should act towards the public in all they do. A terrible one to bully the public into accepting Draconian regulation when it quite patently isn't true.

dixiedean

Beibheirli_C said:

Back - and in first place

And great to see you back too!

dixiedean

FPT. If anyone is interested.

Suspected omicron news from your man on the spot.

Have had the classic omicron symptoms. Sore throat, headache. Fatigue, muscle pain, raised pulse. Barely any cough to speak of.

Good news. Both me and eldest reckon we are asymptomatic today. But were both expecting worse. So haven't quite appreciated how sick we've been.
Concentration is returning. Strange inability to remember stuff and make silly grammatical errors waning.

Two conclusions. If it is omicron.

1. For us it has been very mild. However. It is still a 5 days off work job. So not really that mild. There are implications for the economy if it spreads exponentially. A lot of folk off work. The brain fog is a bar to professions which need long concentration. Wouldn't like to be an air traffic controller going to work tomorrow for example.

2. There is no way to stop transmission other than full lockdown. I caught it without close or particularly lengthy contact. Other than not going anywhere near anyone I don't see how it can be avoided. Except through sheer luck.
A double vaxxed and boostered friend caught it. And was ill for 4 or 5 days. Other 3 in this cluster all double jabbed.
So vaccines aren't a magic bullet solution to make it entirely go away.

No solutions. Just anecdotal experience.

Dixiedean. Your man on the infected spot.

Cyclefree

ExiledInScotland said:

My professional line is the provision pf Portfolio, Programme and Project office management. I genuinely believe that a lot of what I do is overly complex and - to be blunt - mumbo jumbo. I think the same applies to the provision of public services and delivery services generally. The desire to spread best practice has resulted in more bureaucracy, more box ticking and lower quality. It also allows people to hide behind following process when they mess up. We really need to refocus the police on catching criminals and deterring wrongdoing. Surely we can focus on what is important and simplify procedures.

Here they didn't even follow process. But your point is a good one. I think that the police spend too much time on incidentals and far too little on the essence of their craft - investigations. It is a mixture of art and science but however it is done it needs a laser-like focus on collecting, testing and understanding the evidence.

That can never be done effectively if you spend your time worrying about other matters or being blinded by your own prejudices. The police are in danger both of forgetting what their job is and how to do it.

dixiedean

CorrectHorseBattery said:

I am going to say - sadly - that I think more restrictions are on the way.

I'm going to discuss with my counsellor whether they will do remote sessions as otherwise I really will struggle to cope

They really ought to. Any counsellor not offering remote sessions these days would be unusual to say the least.
There are plenty doing precious little else.

CorrectHorseBattery

dixiedean said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Back - and in first place

And great to see you back too!

Hear hear, hope you are well

NickPalmer

dixiedean said:

FPT. If anyone is interested.

Suspected omicron news from your man on the spot.

Have had the classic omicron symptoms. Sore throat, headache. Fatigue, muscle pain, raised pulse. Barely any cough to speak of.

Good news. Both me and eldest reckon we are asymptomatic today. But were both expecting worse. So haven't quite appreciated how sick we've been.
Concentration is returning. Strange inability to remember stuff and make silly grammatical errors waning.

Two conclusions. If it is omicron.

1. For us it has been very mild. However. It is still a 5 days off work job. So not really that mild. There are implications for the economy if it spreads exponentially. A lot of folk off work. The brain fog is a bar to professions which need long concentration. Wouldn't like to be an air traffic controller going to work tomorrow for example.

2. There is no way to stop transmission other than full lockdown. I caught it without close or particularly lengthy contact. Other than not going anywhere near anyone I don't see how it can be avoided. Except through sheer luck.
A double vaxxed and boostered friend caught it. And was ill for 4 or 5 days. Other 3 in this cluster all double jabbed.
So vaccines aren't a magic bullet solution to make it entirely go away.

No solutions. Just anecdotal experience.

Dixiedean. Your man on the infected spot.

Your posts are really helpful - thank you very much. We'll all be delighted you're on the mend, and appreciate your precision and wry account of what must have been an intensely worrying period.

Your grammar remained better than the PB average throughout...

CorrectHorseBattery

@dixiedean Really pleased you're on the right track, sending my very best to you all

Cyclefree

Beibheirli_C said:

Cyclefree said:

Humph!

Still, women in 1st and 2nd place.

All is as it should be in a well-ordered universe.

Nonetheless, I think your points about competence are valid, but in some respects twas ever thus. New systems are put in place by able, competent people who put in the hard work and eventually, if they are successful, those systems or positions become desirable for the sort of parasite for whom, power, prestige and position is more important than the ability to do things correctly.

A good example would be the institutional sneering that has existed for decades, perhaps centuries, of what we now call the STEM subjects. Some aspects of this even goes back to the ancient Greeks when Aristotle proved by pure reason that women have fewer teeth than man. To actually count teeth was considered a vulgar, inferior way of doing this...

Bullsh*t, it would seem, has always been more highly prized than ability

I agree. I just think that a focus on ability and being competent might - after the last few years - prove politically attractive. Or maybe that's just me.

A good politician ought to be making the case for this and showing how this will benefit the public in all sorts of ways.

An impossibly naive dream, I know.

Malmesbury

Cyclefree said:

ExiledInScotland said:

My professional line is the provision pf Portfolio, Programme and Project office management. I genuinely believe that a lot of what I do is overly complex and - to be blunt - mumbo jumbo. I think the same applies to the provision of public services and delivery services generally. The desire to spread best practice has resulted in more bureaucracy, more box ticking and lower quality. It also allows people to hide behind following process when they mess up. We really need to refocus the police on catching criminals and deterring wrongdoing. Surely we can focus on what is important and simplify procedures.

Here they didn't even follow process. But your point is a good one. I think that the police spend too much time on incidentals and far too little on the essence of their craft - investigations. It is a mixture of art and science but however it is done it needs a laser-like focus on collecting, testing and understanding the evidence.

That can never be done effectively if you spend your time worrying about other matters or being blinded by your own prejudices. The police are in danger both of forgetting what their job is and how to do it.

I have heard, from policemen, that actual, movie style whodunnit investigations are so rare, that it is hard to build the skills.

rottenborough

shinydoc
@irishayesha
I love how I, an actual GP...who was involved in the initial covid vaccination programme ...has to tune in at 8pm with the public to find out that apparently we are vaccinating the entire adult population with boosters by the end of the year

Malmesbury

DecrepiterJohnL said:

You'd think that three dead bodies found in the same place might have raised a police eyebrow.

You haven't watched Hot Fuzz?

CorrectHorseBattery

Malmesbury said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

You'd think that three dead bodies found in the same place might have raised a police eyebrow.

You haven't watched Hot Fuzz?

The greater good

MaxPB

rottenborough said:

shinydoc
@irishayesha
I love how I, an actual GP...who was involved in the initial covid vaccination programme ...has to tune in at 8pm with the public to find out that apparently we are vaccinating the entire adult population with boosters by the end of the year

Because GPs are useless arseholes who went begging for money instead of actually giving any fucks about patients. The biggest hold up wasn't cancelling other appointments it was increasing booster payments to £30.

Malmesbury

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Malmesbury said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

You'd think that three dead bodies found in the same place might have raised a police eyebrow.

You haven't watched Hot Fuzz?

The greater good

Yarp

Leon

FPT for max



‘Alpha hospitalised at a rate of 5%, Delta at a rate of 8%, I'm not sure a 1% hospitalisation rate in a less boosted country is much to worry about.’

++++++


It’s far too early to say. Omicron cases in Denmark have only just kicked off. A week ago there were barely any. See here


‘1 Dec = 6
2 Dec = 14
3 Dec = 18
4 Dec = 84 (?)
5 Dec = 183
6 Dec = 261
7 Dec = 398
8 Dec = 577
9 Dec = 796
10 Dec =1,280
11 Dec = 1,840
12 Dec = 2,471

Most cases are in 20-29-year-olds.

27 in hospital (8 hospital-acquired).

DK = 76.5% fully vaxxed.’

https://twitter.com/caerage/status/1470138564612665345?s=21

Let’s hope the hospitalisation rate stays at 1%. Otherwise we’re fucked

This exponential curve will hit every country, of course

MaxPB

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

‘Latest Omicron stats for Denmark Dec 12: Out of ~2500 cases, 13 % not vaxed, 75 % vaxed (2 doses) and 10 % boosted (3 doses). ~1 % hospitalized. files.ssi.dk/covid19/omikro…’

https://twitter.com/piamarken/status/1470164175980748801?s=21

1% we can live with. I don't think it will be that high either here given the advanced state of the booster programme among over 50s.

Unfortunately it’s too early to say. Hospitalisations lag

What we can say is that Omicron is even more transmissible than we thought. It is doubling in Denmark, the UK, Holland every ~1.6 days

Omicron will become the dominant strain in Denmark THIS WEEK


‘#Omicron estimated to become dominant in 🇩🇰 on Tuesday, Dec. 14th, and ~97% by🎄

DAILY progression is on par with WEEKLY progression for #Alpha (🇬🇧variant) a year ago.

Underlying methods (applied to #Alpha and #Delta) described here: arxiv.org/abs/2110.00533’

https://twitter.com/profphansen/status/1469528190888652804?s=21

It’s going to be brutal, but it’s going to be quick

Alpha hospitalised at a rate of 5%, Delta at a rate of 8%, I'm not sure a 1% hospitalisation rate in a less boosted country is much to worry about.

It’s far too early to say. Omicron cases in Denmark have only just kicked off. A week ago there were barely any. See here


‘1 Dec = 6
2 Dec = 14
3 Dec = 18
4 Dec = 84 (?)
5 Dec = 183
6 Dec = 261
7 Dec = 398
8 Dec = 577
9 Dec = 796
10 Dec =1,280
11 Dec = 1,840
12 Dec = 2,471

Most cases are in 20-29-year-olds.

27 in hospital (8 hospital-acquired).

DK = 76.5% fully vaxxed.’

https://twitter.com/caerage/status/1470138564612665345?s=21

Let’s hope the hospitalisation rate stays at 1%. Otherwise we’re fucked

This exponential curve will hit every country, of course

Yes, but exponents have an S shape, ultimately it will have a natural limit on the number of infected people at any one time within an ecosystem before it starts bumping into too many substandard hosts. It's probably not as high as 1m, I still haven't got any clue as to whether that was per day or at any one time. It seems extremely unlikely to be per day because it implies an infection rate of at least 1 in 8, possibly as high as 1 in 5. That's incredibly unlikely.

NickPalmer

rottenborough said:

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.

Beibheirli_C

dixiedean said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Back - and in first place

And great to see you back too!

Thank you

CorrectHorseBattery

@Beibheirli_C it was meant to, I already wished @dixiedean best before

Malmesbury

Farooq said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Malmesbury said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

You'd think that three dead bodies found in the same place might have raised a police eyebrow.

You haven't watched Hot Fuzz?

The greater good

The greater good

He is not Judge Judy and executioner!

Fairliered

On topic. The Met should be disbanded, starting at the top. Everyone should have to reapply for their job, starting with Cressida Dick. They should be interviewed for their job by competent and trustworthy officers from other, more competent forces. If they don’t meet the standards met by other forces, then they don’t get reappointed. There may be some forces (Derbyshire, South Yorkshire, etc,) that don’t get invited to help with the interview process. It may be that, by the time the process reaches Sergeant level, that the incompetents have been weeded out, or can weed out the incompetent Sergeants and Constables themselves. National specialisms should be part of a National force, not part of the Met.

Malmesbury

Cyclefree said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Cyclefree said:

Humph!

Still, women in 1st and 2nd place.

All is as it should be in a well-ordered universe.

Nonetheless, I think your points about competence are valid, but in some respects twas ever thus. New systems are put in place by able, competent people who put in the hard work and eventually, if they are successful, those systems or positions become desirable for the sort of parasite for whom, power, prestige and position is more important than the ability to do things correctly.

A good example would be the institutional sneering that has existed for decades, perhaps centuries, of what we now call the STEM subjects. Some aspects of this even goes back to the ancient Greeks when Aristotle proved by pure reason that women have fewer teeth than man. To actually count teeth was considered a vulgar, inferior way of doing this...

Bullsh*t, it would seem, has always been more highly prized than ability

I agree. I just think that a focus on ability and being competent might - after the last few years - prove politically attractive. Or maybe that's just me.

A good politician ought to be making the case for this and showing how this will benefit the public in all sorts of ways.

An impossibly naive dream, I know.

No, facts are offensive and oppressive. Feels is more important.

They Feel Your Pain. So Lessons Will be Learned.

You will be ProtectServed by the SAPD.

MaxPB

NickPalmer said:

rottenborough said:

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.

Agree Nick, I'm hardly his number one fan, far from it, this statement needed to be made and as far and wide as possible. Get your booster, get is soon and don't wait. My wife and I are going to chance a local walk in centre tomorrow rather than wait for Friday.

rottenborough

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

‘Latest Omicron stats for Denmark Dec 12: Out of ~2500 cases, 13 % not vaxed, 75 % vaxed (2 doses) and 10 % boosted (3 doses). ~1 % hospitalized. files.ssi.dk/covid19/omikro…’

https://twitter.com/piamarken/status/1470164175980748801?s=21

1% we can live with. I don't think it will be that high either here given the advanced state of the booster programme among over 50s.

Unfortunately it’s too early to say. Hospitalisations lag

What we can say is that Omicron is even more transmissible than we thought. It is doubling in Denmark, the UK, Holland every ~1.6 days

Omicron will become the dominant strain in Denmark THIS WEEK


‘#Omicron estimated to become dominant in 🇩🇰 on Tuesday, Dec. 14th, and ~97% by🎄

DAILY progression is on par with WEEKLY progression for #Alpha (🇬🇧variant) a year ago.

Underlying methods (applied to #Alpha and #Delta) described here: arxiv.org/abs/2110.00533’

https://twitter.com/profphansen/status/1469528190888652804?s=21

It’s going to be brutal, but it’s going to be quick

Alpha hospitalised at a rate of 5%, Delta at a rate of 8%, I'm not sure a 1% hospitalisation rate in a less boosted country is much to worry about.

It’s far too early to say. Omicron cases in Denmark have only just kicked off. A week ago there were barely any. See here


‘1 Dec = 6
2 Dec = 14
3 Dec = 18
4 Dec = 84 (?)
5 Dec = 183
6 Dec = 261
7 Dec = 398
8 Dec = 577
9 Dec = 796
10 Dec =1,280
11 Dec = 1,840
12 Dec = 2,471

Most cases are in 20-29-year-olds.

27 in hospital (8 hospital-acquired).

DK = 76.5% fully vaxxed.’

https://twitter.com/caerage/status/1470138564612665345?s=21

Let’s hope the hospitalisation rate stays at 1%. Otherwise we’re fucked

This exponential curve will hit every country, of course

Yes, but exponents have an S shape, ultimately it will have a natural limit on the number of infected people at any one time within an ecosystem before it starts bumping into too many substandard hosts. It's probably not as high as 1m, I still haven't got any clue as to whether that was per day or at any one time. It seems extremely unlikely to be per day because it implies an infection rate of at least 1 in 8, possibly as high as 1 in 5. That's incredibly unlikely.

Interesting that from that tweet it seems DK is very specific about hospital acquired covid cases.

NickPalmer

Incidentally and anecdotally, on my team's regular leaflet outing today, we were struck by a change of mood. People normally glance at us, possibly smile, or not, and look away. Today we were stopped five times by passers-by saying variations on "Thank goodness we've got some sensible people like you around". This was on village streets in outer Godalming which traditionally vote Tory. There's a craving for serious purpose out there, and perhaps Johnson's statement tonight was a reflection of that.

xxxxx5

Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

JohnLilburne

There is already a beer - Sweet Victory, Bitter Hops. (Great brewery tap if you are ever in Haarlem) https://www.facebook.com/449971568349898/posts/5198094113537596/

Beibheirli_C

CorrectHorseBattery said:

dixiedean said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Back - and in first place

And great to see you back too!

Hear hear, hope you are well

Thank you. From reading your posts it seems that you are having some difficult times. I hope things improve for you.

These days, I no longer need the counselling and pshrinks once I had figured out my depression triggers and my coping strategies. I hope you too discover whatever it is that helps you.

DecrepiterJohnL

OT for maths in government fans. The Irish National Lottery jackpot has not been won since June, and operators have been summonsed to explain to Irish MPs (TDs) why not.
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/sport/other/still-no-winner-of-lotto-jackpot-but-two-lucky-punters-have-massive-wins/ar-AARJveA

RH1992

NickPalmer said:

rottenborough said:

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.

I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.

Leon

MaxPB said:

NickPalmer said:

rottenborough said:

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.

Agree Nick, I'm hardly his number one fan, far from it, this statement needed to be made and as far and wide as possible. Get your booster, get is soon and don't wait. My wife and I are going to chance a local walk in centre tomorrow rather than wait for Friday.

Yes. The overwhelming lesson from the latest data is GET FUCKING BOOSTERED. Boris was quite right to make that speech, nationwide, tonight

This is a national emergency. If Omicron is as virulent as Delta we are facing something very very bad indeed; if, as we all hope, it is milder - as some early evidence strongly suggests - then it still has the capacity to knacker the NHS and the wider economy because of its insane transmissibility

And boosters are absolutely the best line of defence. They are the RAF in 1940

I’m not sure any lockdown can seriously slow, let alone stop this thing

Big_G_NorthWales

RH1992 said:

NickPalmer said:

rottenborough said:

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.

I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.

Case to report by the end of this week

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470156150687547400?t=byDQltg0UY1gGp4jJVWGUQ&s=19

Cyclefree

Malmesbury said:

Cyclefree said:

ExiledInScotland said:

My professional line is the provision pf Portfolio, Programme and Project office management. I genuinely believe that a lot of what I do is overly complex and - to be blunt - mumbo jumbo. I think the same applies to the provision of public services and delivery services generally. The desire to spread best practice has resulted in more bureaucracy, more box ticking and lower quality. It also allows people to hide behind following process when they mess up. We really need to refocus the police on catching criminals and deterring wrongdoing. Surely we can focus on what is important and simplify procedures.

Here they didn't even follow process. But your point is a good one. I think that the police spend too much time on incidentals and far too little on the essence of their craft - investigations. It is a mixture of art and science but however it is done it needs a laser-like focus on collecting, testing and understanding the evidence.

That can never be done effectively if you spend your time worrying about other matters or being blinded by your own prejudices. The police are in danger both of forgetting what their job is and how to do it.

I have heard, from policemen, that actual, movie style whodunnit investigations are so rare, that it is hard to build the skills.

What the actual fuck do they do then all day? In nearly 14 years my team did ca 5000 investigations, including cases which will be in the history books.

Might they try investigating low level crimes (burglary, for instance) or the very many frauds that get reported to them every day in order to build the bloody skills? That just sounds like an excuse.

NickPalmer said:

Incidentally and anecdotally, on my team's regular leaflet outing today, we were struck by a change of mood. People normally glance at us, possibly smile, or not, and look away. Today we were stopped five times by passers-by saying variations on "Thank goodness we've got some sensible people like you around". This was on village streets in outer Godalming which traditionally vote Tory. There's a craving for serious purpose out there, and perhaps Johnson's statement tonight was a reflection of that.

Your last sentence reflects in part what my header is about. Seriousness and competence can achieve so much more than bullshit and blather.

MaxPB

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

NickPalmer said:

rottenborough said:

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.

Agree Nick, I'm hardly his number one fan, far from it, this statement needed to be made and as far and wide as possible. Get your booster, get is soon and don't wait. My wife and I are going to chance a local walk in centre tomorrow rather than wait for Friday.

Yes. The overwhelming lesson from the latest data is GET FUCKING BOOSTERED. Boris was quite right to make that speech, nationwide, tonight

This is a national emergency. If Omicron is as virulent as Delta we are facing something very very bad indeed; if, as we all hope, it is milder - as some early evidence strongly suggests - then it still has the capacity to knacker the NHS and the wider economy because of its insane transmissibility

And boosters are absolutely the best line of defence. They are the RAF in 1940

I’m not sure any lockdown can seriously slow, let alone stop this thing

Yup, and possibly get a fourth for all over 50s in March. We have the supply.

Cyclefree

xxxxx5 said:

Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.

Andy_JS

Is there any news yet on whether anyone in the UK or Europe has died from the new variant?

DecrepiterJohnL

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

NickPalmer said:

rottenborough said:

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.

Agree Nick, I'm hardly his number one fan, far from it, this statement needed to be made and as far and wide as possible. Get your booster, get is soon and don't wait. My wife and I are going to chance a local walk in centre tomorrow rather than wait for Friday.

Yes. The overwhelming lesson from the latest data is GET FUCKING BOOSTERED. Boris was quite right to make that speech, nationwide, tonight

This is a national emergency. If Omicron is as virulent as Delta we are facing something very very bad indeed; if, as we all hope, it is milder - as some early evidence strongly suggests - then it still has the capacity to knacker the NHS and the wider economy because of its insane transmissibility

And boosters are absolutely the best line of defence. They are the RAF in 1940

I’m not sure any lockdown can seriously slow, let alone stop this thing

Is the capacity there yet? Look how many times even PBers have posted in the past few days that they've not been able to book their boosters yet. I've been done myself, and have visited a pharmacy doing walk-ins, and both venues seemed to be fully occupied. Boris wants to boost the rest of the country by the end of the month but that is only two weeks away (allowing a couple of days off for Christmas).

williamglenn

Is this another sign that the threat from Omicron is being overstated?

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-12-10/omicron-was-in-california-weeks-ago-water-samples-suggest

The Omicron strain of the coronavirus was detected in California’s wastewater last month, even before the World Health Organization declared it a “variant of concern,” lab data suggest.

Cyclefree

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RH1992 said:

NickPalmer said:

rottenborough said:

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.

I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.

Case to report by the end of this week

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470156150687547400?t=byDQltg0UY1gGp4jJVWGUQ&s=19

Everybody likes to get their work done before the work Christmas do on the last full Friday before Christmas.

Case couldn't investigate his way into his own trousers. No offence but this is not what senior civil servants are trained to or good at doing. He is also likely conflicted. If they want a proper investigation get a proper investigator. If ....

Cyclefree

Farooq said:

Cyclefree said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RH1992 said:

NickPalmer said:

rottenborough said:

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.

I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.

Case to report by the end of this week

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470156150687547400?t=byDQltg0UY1gGp4jJVWGUQ&s=19

Everybody likes to get their work done before the work Christmas do on the last full Friday before Christmas.

Case couldn't investigate his way into his own trousers. No offence but this is not what senior civil servants are trained to or good at doing. He is also likely conflicted. If they want a proper investigation get a proper investigator. If ....

One of the things I would avoid doing is setting an early deadline or target for reporting back. That's only going to make it easier to batten down the hatches. But what do I know?

I know exactly how I'd do an investigation of this type, what to look at, what evidence to get hold of etc. I'll bet none of it is being done or done in the way that it should be. The timing is less of an issue. The amateurishness of it will be.

DecrepiterJohnL

Cyclefree said:

Malmesbury said:

Cyclefree said:

ExiledInScotland said:

My professional line is the provision pf Portfolio, Programme and Project office management. I genuinely believe that a lot of what I do is overly complex and - to be blunt - mumbo jumbo. I think the same applies to the provision of public services and delivery services generally. The desire to spread best practice has resulted in more bureaucracy, more box ticking and lower quality. It also allows people to hide behind following process when they mess up. We really need to refocus the police on catching criminals and deterring wrongdoing. Surely we can focus on what is important and simplify procedures.

Here they didn't even follow process. But your point is a good one. I think that the police spend too much time on incidentals and far too little on the essence of their craft - investigations. It is a mixture of art and science but however it is done it needs a laser-like focus on collecting, testing and understanding the evidence.

That can never be done effectively if you spend your time worrying about other matters or being blinded by your own prejudices. The police are in danger both of forgetting what their job is and how to do it.

I have heard, from policemen, that actual, movie style whodunnit investigations are so rare, that it is hard to build the skills.

What the actual fuck do they do then all day? In nearly 14 years my team did ca 5000 investigations, including cases which will be in the history books.

Might they try investigating low level crimes (burglary, for instance) or the very many frauds that get reported to them every day in order to build the bloody skills? That just sounds like an excuse

Maybe part of the problem is over-specialisation. This looks like a murder so rather than investigate it, we'll pitch it to a specialist murder squad and hope they are interested. They weren't, so now what? All we've done is ensure that neither the local nor specialist team has the full picture.

I don't know. Port should have been stopped after the first murder but when he wasn't, failure to link the three cases where the victims were dumped in the same spot beggars belief. Maybe we need some AI app that will scan police databases looking for common factors in unlinked cases. Aiui there will be a BBC dramadoc on this case soon which might wake up a few MPs.

dixiedean

MaxPB said:

NickPalmer said:

rottenborough said:

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.

Agree Nick, I'm hardly his number one fan, far from it, this statement needed to be made and as far and wide as possible. Get your booster, get is soon and don't wait. My wife and I are going to chance a local walk in centre tomorrow rather than wait for Friday.

Yep. Bloody get on with it mate.
I was booked for last Wednesday. Didn't really investigate if I could bring it forward cos it would have been a few days at most, and what was the point, as I'd been being super careful to not catch it in the run up anyways?
Tested positive on the morning of my booster. Now I'm locked up till Friday. And it has been "mild". But not pleasant.
Everyone who can, bring it forward as much as you can.
Don't be like me.

Leon

williamglenn said:

Is this another sign that the threat from Omicron is being overstated?

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-12-10/omicron-was-in-california-weeks-ago-water-samples-suggest

The Omicron strain of the coronavirus was detected in California’s wastewater last month, even before the World Health Organization declared it a “variant of concern,” lab data suggest.

Denmark has maybe the best sequencing in the world. I’d trust their data over any random waste-water sampling anywhere else.

Maybe some random Saffer took a leak in a stopover at LAX. What does it prove?

American complacency in general over Omicron is mystifying. It will hit them in a week or two (or before) and follow the exact same curve as Denmark, UK

I note Omicron is now a newsworthy issue in Ontario


‘ UPDATE: Latest Omicron estimates from Ontario Science Table. Rt for Omicron estimated at 3.32 compared to 1.11 for Delta. Omicron share has climbed to 20.8%. It's doubling time is 3 days.
#covid19ontario #onhealth #onpoli #onted #Billius27’


https://twitter.com/billius27/status/1470086698726010881?s=21

DecrepiterJohnL

Cyclefree said:

Farooq said:

Cyclefree said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RH1992 said:

NickPalmer said:

rottenborough said:

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.

I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.

Case to report by the end of this week

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470156150687547400?t=byDQltg0UY1gGp4jJVWGUQ&s=19

Everybody likes to get their work done before the work Christmas do on the last full Friday before Christmas.

Case couldn't investigate his way into his own trousers. No offence but this is not what senior civil servants are trained to or good at doing. He is also likely conflicted. If they want a proper investigation get a proper investigator. If ....

One of the things I would avoid doing is setting an early deadline or target for reporting back. That's only going to make it easier to batten down the hatches. But what do I know?

I know exactly how I'd do an investigation of this type, what to look at, what evidence to get hold of etc. I'll bet none of it is being done or done in the way that it should be. The timing is less of an issue. The amateurishness of it will be.

Maybe that is the point. Government inquiries are for setting up, as Sir Humphrey might have said.

Philip_Thompson

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

rottenborough said:

So, what's the feeling? Another promise from Johnson that will be nowhere near met?

Millions and millions of jabs by new years day?

If he doesn't meet it, the Tory faithful here will deny it was ever said

You really are quite bitter and twisted aren't you?

You come across as someone who would rather see the whole country plunged into misery and lockdown than see the country come through the winter well under a Tory PM.

If Labour were in office you would be as partisan

No, I wouldn't.

I have my own principles and I stick by them, I don't change them to suit whatever team are in power.

My irony meter exploded. You're one of the most nakedly partisan posters here Philip, you're never ever wrong. And that's why I like conversing with you

If I'm wrong I admit I'm wrong and move on.

I'm not partisan, I'm opinionated, there's a difference. If I was partisan I'd be saying what a great idea mask mandates and the NI tax rise are because that's what 'my side' are doing. Instead I'm vitriolically attacking what used to be 'my side' is doing.

That's not partisanship, its having your own mind.

dixiedean

xxxxx5 said:

Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

Yes you are right. It was far more complex than fear of racism. Though that played a large part, there was much, much more.

Cyclefree

Cyclefree said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RH1992 said:

NickPalmer said:

rottenborough said:

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.

I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.

Case to report by the end of this week

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470156150687547400?t=byDQltg0UY1gGp4jJVWGUQ&s=19

Everybody likes to get their work done before the work Christmas do on the last full Friday before Christmas.

Case couldn't investigate his way into his own trousers. No offence but this is not what senior civil servants are trained to or good at doing. He is also likely conflicted. If they want a proper investigation get a proper investigator. If ....

Oh look - those pesky conflicts of interest have already raised their head - https://twitter.com/direthoughts/status/1470177751277707275?s=21.

Also a strange definition of "external" - https://twitter.com/direthoughts/status/1470178115762667527?s=21.

Malmesbury

Cyclefree said:

Malmesbury said:

Cyclefree said:

ExiledInScotland said:

My professional line is the provision pf Portfolio, Programme and Project office management. I genuinely believe that a lot of what I do is overly complex and - to be blunt - mumbo jumbo. I think the same applies to the provision of public services and delivery services generally. The desire to spread best practice has resulted in more bureaucracy, more box ticking and lower quality. It also allows people to hide behind following process when they mess up. We really need to refocus the police on catching criminals and deterring wrongdoing. Surely we can focus on what is important and simplify procedures.

Here they didn't even follow process. But your point is a good one. I think that the police spend too much time on incidentals and far too little on the essence of their craft - investigations. It is a mixture of art and science but however it is done it needs a laser-like focus on collecting, testing and understanding the evidence.

That can never be done effectively if you spend your time worrying about other matters or being blinded by your own prejudices. The police are in danger both of forgetting what their job is and how to do it.

I have heard, from policemen, that actual, movie style whodunnit investigations are so rare, that it is hard to build the skills.

What the actual fuck do they do then all day? In nearly 14 years my team did ca 5000 investigations, including cases which will be in the history books.

Might they try investigating low level crimes (burglary, for instance) or the very many frauds that get reported to them every day in order to build the bloody skills? That just sounds like an excuse.

NickPalmer said:

Incidentally and anecdotally, on my team's regular leaflet outing today, we were struck by a change of mood. People normally glance at us, possibly smile, or not, and look away. Today we were stopped five times by passers-by saying variations on "Thank goodness we've got some sensible people like you around". This was on village streets in outer Godalming which traditionally vote Tory. There's a craving for serious purpose out there, and perhaps Johnson's statement tonight was a reflection of that.

Your last sentence reflects in part what my header is about. Seriousness and competence can achieve so much more than bullshit and blather.

From what I heard - it's 99% social work, ignoring crimes that aren't on the given list of what they are supposed to be "interested in" and dealing with crimes committed by fuckwits in front of cameras. The policemen in question weren't impressed either.

Cyclefree

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Cyclefree said:

Farooq said:

Cyclefree said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RH1992 said:

NickPalmer said:

rottenborough said:

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.

I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.

Case to report by the end of this week

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470156150687547400?t=byDQltg0UY1gGp4jJVWGUQ&s=19

Everybody likes to get their work done before the work Christmas do on the last full Friday before Christmas.

Case couldn't investigate his way into his own trousers. No offence but this is not what senior civil servants are trained to or good at doing. He is also likely conflicted. If they want a proper investigation get a proper investigator. If ....

One of the things I would avoid doing is setting an early deadline or target for reporting back. That's only going to make it easier to batten down the hatches. But what do I know?

I know exactly how I'd do an investigation of this type, what to look at, what evidence to get hold of etc. I'll bet none of it is being done or done in the way that it should be. The timing is less of an issue. The amateurishness of it will be.

Maybe that is the point. Government inquiries are for setting up, as Sir Humphrey might have said.

Yes - they may as well be called the Kicking into the Long Grass Inquiry.

FrancisUrquhart

John Campbell....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XteixwzvNtc

NickPalmer

RH1992 said:

NickPalmer said:

rottenborough said:

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

On this occasion, no. I think he needed to get on with it - it's already a week later than it should have been.

Everone here knows my views on politics, but I thought tonight's statement was good - focused, firm and with a simple message unclouded by rhetorical tricks. I don't actually care about his hairstyle.

I agree. Remain and Corbynite Twitter are furious because they wanted the media to skewer him on the parties, which highlights why it was essential for him to do an address to the nation and to make it plain. It's an urgent public health message without any real policy requiring a Parliamentary vote so saying it to Parliament would likely have washed out the strength of the message.

Only a fool would think that the party story is going to wither away from this announcement. It's still got legs if Case is going to report soon on it and The Mirror might have something else tucked up their sleeve.

Actually I'm Remain and Corbynite Twitter with the best of them. But we don't need to be politicking 24*7; on occasion, there's a more immediate priority.

DecrepiterJohnL

Boris Johnson in talks to hire ‘hard man’ ally of Sir Lynton Crosby as No 10 enforcer

PM said to be close to acquiring the services of David Canzini to bring rebellious Tory MPs back into line, The Telegraph understands
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/12/boris-johnson-talks-hire-hard-man-ally-sir-lynton-crosby-no/ (£££)

Cyclefree

Malmesbury said:

Cyclefree said:

Malmesbury said:

Cyclefree said:

ExiledInScotland said:

My professional line is the provision pf Portfolio, Programme and Project office management. I genuinely believe that a lot of what I do is overly complex and - to be blunt - mumbo jumbo. I think the same applies to the provision of public services and delivery services generally. The desire to spread best practice has resulted in more bureaucracy, more box ticking and lower quality. It also allows people to hide behind following process when they mess up. We really need to refocus the police on catching criminals and deterring wrongdoing. Surely we can focus on what is important and simplify procedures.

Here they didn't even follow process. But your point is a good one. I think that the police spend too much time on incidentals and far too little on the essence of their craft - investigations. It is a mixture of art and science but however it is done it needs a laser-like focus on collecting, testing and understanding the evidence.

That can never be done effectively if you spend your time worrying about other matters or being blinded by your own prejudices. The police are in danger both of forgetting what their job is and how to do it.

I have heard, from policemen, that actual, movie style whodunnit investigations are so rare, that it is hard to build the skills.

What the actual fuck do they do then all day? In nearly 14 years my team did ca 5000 investigations, including cases which will be in the history books.

Might they try investigating low level crimes (burglary, for instance) or the very many frauds that get reported to them every day in order to build the bloody skills? That just sounds like an excuse.

NickPalmer said:

Incidentally and anecdotally, on my team's regular leaflet outing today, we were struck by a change of mood. People normally glance at us, possibly smile, or not, and look away. Today we were stopped five times by passers-by saying variations on "Thank goodness we've got some sensible people like you around". This was on village streets in outer Godalming which traditionally vote Tory. There's a craving for serious purpose out there, and perhaps Johnson's statement tonight was a reflection of that.

Your last sentence reflects in part what my header is about. Seriousness and competence can achieve so much more than bullshit and blather.

From what I heard - it's 99% social work, ignoring crimes that aren't on the given list of what they are supposed to be "interested in" and dealing with crimes committed by fuckwits in front of cameras. The policemen in question weren't impressed either.

What I find extraordinary is the idea that some crimes can simply be ignored.

Every single thing that came to my team I had to deal with. I could not simply ignore it. The option of saying "oh here's a number, you are 489 in the queue but your call is very important. Let me play some music at you until you die of boredom or fuck off" simply wasn't an option.

So how do the police get to do this?

xxxxx5

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.

I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.

FrancisUrquhart

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Boris Johnson in talks to hire ‘hard man’ ally of Sir Lynton Crosby as No 10 enforcer

PM said to be close to acquiring the services of David Canzini to bring rebellious Tory MPs back into line, The Telegraph understands
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/12/boris-johnson-talks-hire-hard-man-ally-sir-lynton-crosby-no/ (£££)

Dead cat....thud.

Malmesbury

Cyclefree said:

Malmesbury said:

Cyclefree said:

Malmesbury said:

Cyclefree said:

ExiledInScotland said:

My professional line is the provision pf Portfolio, Programme and Project office management. I genuinely believe that a lot of what I do is overly complex and - to be blunt - mumbo jumbo. I think the same applies to the provision of public services and delivery services generally. The desire to spread best practice has resulted in more bureaucracy, more box ticking and lower quality. It also allows people to hide behind following process when they mess up. We really need to refocus the police on catching criminals and deterring wrongdoing. Surely we can focus on what is important and simplify procedures.

Here they didn't even follow process. But your point is a good one. I think that the police spend too much time on incidentals and far too little on the essence of their craft - investigations. It is a mixture of art and science but however it is done it needs a laser-like focus on collecting, testing and understanding the evidence.

That can never be done effectively if you spend your time worrying about other matters or being blinded by your own prejudices. The police are in danger both of forgetting what their job is and how to do it.

I have heard, from policemen, that actual, movie style whodunnit investigations are so rare, that it is hard to build the skills.

What the actual fuck do they do then all day? In nearly 14 years my team did ca 5000 investigations, including cases which will be in the history books.

Might they try investigating low level crimes (burglary, for instance) or the very many frauds that get reported to them every day in order to build the bloody skills? That just sounds like an excuse.

NickPalmer said:

Incidentally and anecdotally, on my team's regular leaflet outing today, we were struck by a change of mood. People normally glance at us, possibly smile, or not, and look away. Today we were stopped five times by passers-by saying variations on "Thank goodness we've got some sensible people like you around". This was on village streets in outer Godalming which traditionally vote Tory. There's a craving for serious purpose out there, and perhaps Johnson's statement tonight was a reflection of that.

Your last sentence reflects in part what my header is about. Seriousness and competence can achieve so much more than bullshit and blather.

From what I heard - it's 99% social work, ignoring crimes that aren't on the given list of what they are supposed to be "interested in" and dealing with crimes committed by fuckwits in front of cameras. The policemen in question weren't impressed either.

What I find extraordinary is the idea that some crimes can simply be ignored.

Every single thing that came to my team I had to deal with. I could not simply ignore it. The option of saying "oh here's a number, you are 489 in the queue but your call is very important. Let me play some music at you until you die of boredom or fuck off" simply wasn't an option.

So how do the police get to do this?

Resources.

It's been that way for many years. An arsehole I used work for had his incredibly expensive bike stolen from the office. At the court case, the lawyer for the thief argued it was unfair that because it was above a certain value, that the theft of the bike had been dealt with as a serious crime - forensics etc.

Cyclefree

xxxxx5 said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.

I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.

The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.

FrancisUrquhart

New York City reports 4,293 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase since April 8

DecrepiterJohnL

FrancisUrquhart said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Boris Johnson in talks to hire ‘hard man’ ally of Sir Lynton Crosby as No 10 enforcer

PM said to be close to acquiring the services of David Canzini to bring rebellious Tory MPs back into line, The Telegraph understands
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/12/boris-johnson-talks-hire-hard-man-ally-sir-lynton-crosby-no/ (£££)

Dead cat....thud.

Last throw of the dice, more like. The problem's not with Boris but with the team around him. Again.

FrancisUrquhart

18 million jabs in 19 days. Ain't going to happen, especially with Christmas. A few bad days and then you soon need to do 1.5 million for a day or two.

Leon

FrancisUrquhart said:

New York City reports 4,293 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase since April 8

Makes sense. If it’s in Ontario it’s in NY

Look at this bonkers graph from Denmark


‘Denmark, already up shit creek because of Delta, has just met Omicron. Near-vertical growth. #auspol #covid19aus’

https://twitter.com/ragesheen/status/1470125914788818944?s=21

DecrepiterJohnL

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.

I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.

The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.

Most of the victims were living chaotic lifestyles in or on the fringes of the care system. They weren't believed and if they were, they must have been going along with it.

FrancisUrquhart

We haven't had any talk of all the anti-viral drugs the government ordered. I presume they aren't arriving in time. And remember they need to be taken immediately when you get symptoms, so pissing about with 111 or GP, then them being ordered and delivered in a couple of days is no good.

FrancisUrquhart

Leon said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

New York City reports 4,293 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase since April 8

Makes sense. If it’s in Ontario it’s in NY

Look at this bonkers graph from Denmark


‘Denmark, already up shit creek because of Delta, has just met Omicron. Near-vertical growth. #auspol #covid19aus’

https://twitter.com/ragesheen/status/1470125914788818944?s=21

More parabolic than a pump and dump crypto scam....

xxxxx5

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.

I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.

The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.

Isnt she eligible for parole at 29 years? A whole life order means without parole doesn't it? Nothing surprises me anymore but surely if we cannot trust the police to police our society then we are stuffed.

FrancisUrquhart

Bucheon in South Korea will use AI, facial recognition and 10,000 CCTV cameras to track COVID-19 cases, their close contacts, and whether they were wearing a mask https://t.co/sQvAbTQ8Yk

xxxxx5

On topic there is a problem within the gay community of chemsex parties with web sites like Grinder fuelling this. It is not just the killings that Port executed it is the sexual thrill that thousands of gay men are chasing with dangerous consequences. The internet and the easily availability of drugs today make it a toxic environment for those chasing that "thrill" no government can stop this - the problem will go more and more underground

Philip_Thompson

FrancisUrquhart said:

rottenborough said:

Tim Stanley
@timothy_stanley
·
1h
I know internet people think I live in the 19th century, but it is inappropriate to give a pre-recorded statement to camera. Commons is correct place to do it, & in a proper statement he could face questions from MPs.

To defend Boris on this one......the general public don't listen to HoC announcements. They perceive it as yah boo nonsense.

However, I thought the fudge that Hoyle came up with was fine. You can give your statement, but I want a minister to also give it to the house.

However, in this case, that would be another day gone by.

In this case, is there anything to actually be announced in the Commons?

The booster program has already been announced in the Commons, as have the vaccine passports which Boris mentioned as being 'subject to Commons approval' etc

The timeline is new but does that need to go through Parliament first?

I don't think there was anything 'new' to announce to Parliament tonight is there?

DecrepiterJohnL

xxxxx5 said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.

I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.

The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.

Isnt she eligible for parole at 29 years? A whole life order means without parole doesn't it? Nothing surprises me anymore but surely if we cannot trust the police to police our society then we are stuffed.

Call me old-fashioned but most parents don't need legal deterrents to tell them not to murder their children. Perhaps more education might be in order but that's a separate consideration. TfL has the odd poster on buses with ideas for observation games to amuse toddlers.

Related to the thread topic, this does seem to have been another failure of investigation but we may learn more when the inquiry reports.

Malmesbury

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.

I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.

The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.

Most of the victims were living chaotic lifestyles in or on the fringes of the care system. They weren't believed and if they were, they must have been going along with it.

What seems to be forgotten is how connected the criminals were. Jahangir Akhtar....

FrancisUrquhart

Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

“Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

"Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

"Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

“Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

---

If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!

DecrepiterJohnL

Malmesbury said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.

I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.

The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.

Most of the victims were living chaotic lifestyles in or on the fringes of the care system. They weren't believed and if they were, they must have been going along with it.

What seems to be forgotten is how connected the criminals were. Jahangir Akhtar....

Surely that is the bit that is remembered. Come to think of it, this is another area where dismantling gangs might have helped.

Malmesbury

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Malmesbury said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.

I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.

The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.

Most of the victims were living chaotic lifestyles in or on the fringes of the care system. They weren't believed and if they were, they must have been going along with it.

What seems to be forgotten is how connected the criminals were. Jahangir Akhtar....

Surely that is the bit that is remembered.

There is a convenient memory hole about that. Remember the outrage when a victim suggested that the daughter of one such connected politician shouldn't be dealing with victims personal details?

dixiedean

Malmesbury said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.

I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.

The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.

Most of the victims were living chaotic lifestyles in or on the fringes of the care system. They weren't believed and if they were, they must have been going along with it.

What seems to be forgotten is how connected the criminals were. Jahangir Akhtar....

The web is deep and tangled. Ensnaring many. Rather than unpick it we choose fear of racism/lack of funding/chaotic lifestyles/nasty immigrants and their weird religion/ oversexualisation of children/prejudice against the WWC and care Leavers / institutional corruption among many others as simple explanations of a sickness in our society. Delete as appropriate to your prejudices.
It was all of these and more.
The deeper we look into the abyss, the more it screams back at us.
So we fall back on easy answers and slogans.
Rather than having a close look.

Andy_JS

FrancisUrquhart said:

Bucheon in South Korea will use AI, facial recognition and 10,000 CCTV cameras to track COVID-19 cases, their close contacts, and whether they were wearing a mask https://t.co/sQvAbTQ8Yk

This is getting very close to 1984, however good the intentions may be.

dixiedean

FrancisUrquhart said:

Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

“Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

"Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

"Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

“Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

---

If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!

Well indeed. I'd be one of the two. But it still wasn't a great experience. If you're thinking of it clear at least a week off.

Philip_Thompson

FrancisUrquhart said:

Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

“Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

"Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

"Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

“Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

---

If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!

Hopefully this "wave" will be just what people need to snap out of the fear of Covid. If we have a wave of lots of people getting the sniffles, maybe they'll finally snap out of treating Covid like its some sort of evil pox.

Covid post-vaccines isn't the same thing as the virus that hit a naïve population.

Philip_Thompson

dixiedean said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

“Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

"Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

"Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

“Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

---

If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!

Well indeed. I'd be one of the two. But it still wasn't a great experience. If you're thinking of it clear at least a week off.

Just like the flu.

But a week in bed is still better than six months behind the bedsheets in lockdown.

I hope you're feeling better now.

dixiedean

Philip_Thompson said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

“Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

"Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

"Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

“Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

---

If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!

Hopefully this "wave" will be just what people need to snap out of the fear of Covid. If we have a wave of lots of people getting the sniffles, maybe they'll finally snap out of treating Covid like its some sort of evil pox.

Covid post-vaccines isn't the same thing as the virus that hit a naïve population.

From my experience. It isn't the sniffles. Nor is it the evil pox. It is an unpleasant illness that we aren't experienced in treating yet.
I still don't understand why you haven't shacked up with someone positive if that is really your view. You don't seem to be putting much effort in.

FrancisUrquhart

dixiedean said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

“Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

"Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

"Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

“Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

---

If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!

Hopefully this "wave" will be just what people need to snap out of the fear of Covid. If we have a wave of lots of people getting the sniffles, maybe they'll finally snap out of treating Covid like its some sort of evil pox.

Covid post-vaccines isn't the same thing as the virus that hit a naïve population.

From my experience. It isn't the sniffles. Nor is it the evil pox. It is an unpleasant illness that we aren't experienced in treating yet.
I still don't understand why you haven't shacked up with someone positive if that is really your view. You don't seem to be putting much effort in.

In all seriousness, I am slightly concerned by this mild narrative. It feels like a repeat of the Wuhan, 90% only get mild disease. Not because I am personally scared, I am triple boosted, right age, fit, but more it just encourages reckless behaviour, especially when interacting with much more vulnerable people, when we aren't 100% sure it is even milder.

Both my parents are elderly and vulnerable, I will be seeing them over Christmas, but I will do LFT and try and keep out of circulation for a couple of days before I go to see them just to be on the safe side.

I don't think the PM saying it once today that no proof it is milder and you need to careful will override 2 weeks of daily media interviews with people saying nothing to see here.

dixiedean

Philip_Thompson said:

dixiedean said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

“Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

"Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

"Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

“Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

---

If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!

Well indeed. I'd be one of the two. But it still wasn't a great experience. If you're thinking of it clear at least a week off.

Just like the flu.

But a week in bed is still better than six months behind the bedsheets in lockdown.

I hope you're feeling better now.

It is strange. Not like the flu at all. Nor like a cold, but summat different.
Sorry if I've been a bit chippy with you lately. But it really is something I'd rather not have had. And you give off the impression at least that it isn't much at all.
Truth is. It isn't nice. And I would prefer no one got it.
I have some sympathy with your position, in that I think we are past the place of preventing people getting it, but minimising it as an illness isn't the way to go.

dixiedean

FrancisUrquhart said:

dixiedean said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

“Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

"Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

"Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

“Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

---

If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!

Hopefully this "wave" will be just what people need to snap out of the fear of Covid. If we have a wave of lots of people getting the sniffles, maybe they'll finally snap out of treating Covid like its some sort of evil pox.

Covid post-vaccines isn't the same thing as the virus that hit a naïve population.

From my experience. It isn't the sniffles. Nor is it the evil pox. It is an unpleasant illness that we aren't experienced in treating yet.
I still don't understand why you haven't shacked up with someone positive if that is really your view. You don't seem to be putting much effort in.

In all seriousness, I am slightly concerned by this mild narrative. It feels like a repeat of the Wuhan, 90% only get mild disease. Not because I am personally scared, I am triple boosted, right age, fit, but more it just encourages reckless behaviour, especially when interacting with much more vulnerable people, when we aren't 100% sure it is even milder.

Both my parents are elderly and vulnerable, I will be seeing them over Christmas, but I will do LFT and try and keep out of circulation for a couple of days before I go to see them just to be on the safe side.

I don't think the PM saying it once today that no proof it is milder and you need to careful will override 2 weeks of daily media interviews with people saying nothing to see here.

A feature of my cluster has been repeated negative LFT over several days with symptoms before a positive.
Runny nose. Sore or tickly throat. From my small sample they are red flags. Positive LFT, and other symptoms, comes 3 or 4 days later.
That is my entirely anecdotal advice.

Malmesbury

dixiedean said:

Malmesbury said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.

I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.

The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.

Most of the victims were living chaotic lifestyles in or on the fringes of the care system. They weren't believed and if they were, they must have been going along with it.

What seems to be forgotten is how connected the criminals were. Jahangir Akhtar....

The web is deep and tangled. Ensnaring many. Rather than unpick it we choose fear of racism/lack of funding/chaotic lifestyles/nasty immigrants and their weird religion/ oversexualisation of children/prejudice against the WWC and care Leavers / institutional corruption among many others as simple explanations of a sickness in our society. Delete as appropriate to your prejudices.
It was all of these and more.
The deeper we look into the abyss, the more it screams back at us.
So we fall back on easy answers and slogans.
Rather than having a close look.

Oh absolutely - the various factors turned the "problem" into "don't touch that, it's a toxic swamp, it's always been that way, you can't change it and you'll just damage your career if you look into it too hard. Lunch?"

rcs1000

xxxxx5 said:

On topic there is a problem within the gay community of chemsex parties with web sites like Grinder fuelling this. It is not just the killings that Port executed it is the sexual thrill that thousands of gay men are chasing with dangerous consequences. The internet and the easily availability of drugs today make it a toxic environment for those chasing that "thrill" no government can stop this - the problem will go more and more underground

You mean like this story: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/23/coop-scandal-paul-flowers-mutual-societies

dixiedean

Malmesbury said:

dixiedean said:

Malmesbury said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Cyclefree said:

xxxxx5 said:

Stephen Ports crimes were wicked and cruel deserving of a whole life tariff but why stop at Port? Im still mythed ten years later how authorities in South Yorkshire failed to stop child grooming in places like Rotherham for fear of racism. I've no doubt the situation was for more complexed than a leyman would understand. But there still remains serious questions how it was allowed to go on for years. - failing to protect children is a shame on all of us.

I've written about child abuse here - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/29/two-lessons-learnt/. It's about Lambeth but applies just as well to Rotherham.

I've not heard about the Lambeth cases. I've read plenty on the Rotherham cases and in those particular case I think the government should have prosecuted on the grounds of child rape. Grooming children for sex should carry a whole life tarriff. It is right that we no longer have the death penalty but we do need to increase the use of whole life tariffs. The couple who tortured the six year old should have got whole life orders last week.

The stepmother did get a whole life tariff. She will not even be considered for release until 29 years have passed.

On Rotherham I do wonder whether some policemen knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - not just because of the fear of racism - but because they were ...*ahem* .... benefiting, either in kind or money, from what was happening.

No evidence for this but a line of inquiry which ought to have been pursued.

Most of the victims were living chaotic lifestyles in or on the fringes of the care system. They weren't believed and if they were, they must have been going along with it.

What seems to be forgotten is how connected the criminals were. Jahangir Akhtar....

The web is deep and tangled. Ensnaring many. Rather than unpick it we choose fear of racism/lack of funding/chaotic lifestyles/nasty immigrants and their weird religion/ oversexualisation of children/prejudice against the WWC and care Leavers / institutional corruption among many others as simple explanations of a sickness in our society. Delete as appropriate to your prejudices.
It was all of these and more.
The deeper we look into the abyss, the more it screams back at us.
So we fall back on easy answers and slogans.
Rather than having a close look.

Oh absolutely - the various factors turned the "problem" into "don't touch that, it's a toxic swamp, it's always been that way, you can't change it and you'll just damage your career if you look into it too hard. Lunch?"

That's why I don't work in Child Protection any more.
Lunch was never enjoyable.

Philip_Thompson

dixiedean said:

Philip_Thompson said:

dixiedean said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Professor Tim Spector, from King’s College London, examined UK Omicron super-spreader events involving older people — and found the patients mainly suffered “sniffles”.

He said: “What we’re seeing so far is that symptoms are very, very mild.

“Most of my information comes from one big event, a 60th birthday party where 18 people aged 60 to 75 spent the night together in a hotel.

"Most of them had symptoms of a cold — sniffles, sore throat and fatigue were common.

"Only two had classic symptoms of Covid, fever and loss of smell or taste.

“Nobody had to see their doctor or go to hospital.”

He added all those at the party had been double-jabbed and some had had a booster.

---

If this was the case, we should all just have big parties asap, get it over and done with!

Well indeed. I'd be one of the two. But it still wasn't a great experience. If you're thinking of it clear at least a week off.

Just like the flu.

But a week in bed is still better than six months behind the bedsheets in lockdown.

I hope you're feeling better now.

It is strange. Not like the flu at all. Nor like a cold, but summat different.
Sorry if I've been a bit chippy with you lately. But it really is something I'd rather not have had. And you give off the impression at least that it isn't much at all.
Truth is. It isn't nice. And I would prefer no one got it.
I have some sympathy with your position, in that I think we are past the place of preventing people getting it, but minimising it as an illness isn't the way to go.

Hey if I had a magic wish I'd prefer no one got it.

I'd also love to have world peace, a genie that grants more wishes, magic beans and England to win the Ashes.

The problem is that people will get it, regardless of what we'd prefer. So how we handle that is the thing to be debated.

swing_voter

Andy_JS said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Bucheon in South Korea will use AI, facial recognition and 10,000 CCTV cameras to track COVID-19 cases, their close contacts, and whether they were wearing a mask https://t.co/sQvAbTQ8Yk

This is getting very close to 1984, however good the intentions may be.

I thought facial recognition was ineffective if people wore masks.....?