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Latest voting split GE2021 CON voters – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094
    MaxPB said:

    Shut the border to SA now!

    Now. Not next month. Not after that trade trip that must happen because Brexit or whatever this time's excuse is.

    It's almost a certainty that this variant is already here.
    Could it be behind the huge surge in European cases?

    eg the Netherlands is in a really bad situation, despite high vaccine rates and early opening (like us). Lots of links between the Netherlands and South Africa, obvs.

    How much sampling are they doing?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,472

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck... This guy is usually on the we should be calm, things are going ok, no need for more lockdowns end of spectrum:

    Prof Francois Balloux
    @BallouxFrancois
    ·
    25m
    OK, it looks like we may have a Nu Variant of Concern on our hands ... 😕

    We all had this same panic over the beta variant, bloody South Africa chucked out millions of AZ doses over it and ultimately the AZ vaccine was still highly effective against it.

    Let's wait for lab tests on antibody binding efficiency first.
    I think Pagel is right here. Red list SA while we await developments.
    Honestly, that time is over. This variant is probably seeded all over the world already. I'd be absolutely shocked if we didn't have a handful of cases somewhere in the UK and thousands across Europe, especially in places like the Netherlands which has historic links to SA.

    Our best defence is still going to be booster doses, again and again we come back to vaccines to stop everyone from getting sick and overwhelming hospitals. Even with reduced binding efficiency three doses produces such a huge number of antibodies that I find it very hard to believe that any variant will completely evade our vaccines. Don't forget we've also got the delta subvariant here in the UK now at about 20% of all new cases, that's even more transmissive than original delta.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    Disappointed it's not the "ni" variant.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crX4E-dul4Y&t=170s
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,660
    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pretty bloody ropey after my Moderna booster jab. Seriously sore and frozen arm, general malaise and fatigue. Much worse than AZ, which caused a tiny bit of tenderness in the shoulder...

    That's a sign that you've probably previously had COVID.
    I am now near-certain that I did have Covid way back in January 2020, caught in Thailand. That's what Public Health England thought, that's why they sent me to be tested in UCLH, tho a SNAFU prevented any actual test

    It would also explain why I haven't caught Covid since, despite taking many risks in recent months: pubs, bars, restaurants, planes, the works
    "That's a sign that you've probably previously had COVID."

    Is it? First I've heard of that idea.
    Yes it has been punted before, by proper scientists, tho there are also other explanations, ofc
    Hey, my Chemistry degree still just about qualifies me as a "proper scientist" just not a practicing one.
    You never lose the scientific training.
    You know a junior asked me earlier this year whether or not I thought my degree was useful, I was going to say "not really" as always but actually after having a short think about it, I think it is pretty useful. Not the chemistry because fuck that noise, but the methodology of being a scientist and being open to any and all criticism of a theory, idea or model. I think a lot of our more public scientists, especially those in iSAGE, seem to have forgotten that a big part of science is having regular retrospectives on current theories vs real life data. It's something I've noticed myself doing over the course of this pandemic, go back on old ideas and make sure they are still relevant.

    Too many of the public scientific advisors aren't doing that exercise right now. Just today I read that some SAGE scientists are calling for the immediate implementation of plan b, despite there being not very much evidence to support that. They're stuck in a timeloop of a political agenda that lockdown measures are the only way to combat this. I'm sure when Germany, France and other major European countries go into a full lockdown in two weeks those same voices will condemn the government as irresponsible and callous for not doing the same here and in the process completely ignore the available real world data on infection rates, testing and hospitalisation.
    I'm a recovering former scientist, and what is notable is that science works more on a collective level than on an individual level.

    Individual scientists are human, and most of them become wedded to particular ideas and find it hard to abandon those ideas. The hardest thing in science I had to do was to abandon months of work that just wasn't working as I'd hoped it would. If it had initially worked well enough to publish a paper on it I would have found it a lot harder to give up on it later.

    But collectively science works because other scientists don't share the emotional attachment and cognitive biases that have individual scientists stick to a dead end, because they don't have the history with that idea. They'll get attached to some other ideas in time.

    So I have a lot of faith in Science, but am more wary of individual scientists...
    The medical establishment seems particularly susceptible to unjustified attachments to dogma, for some reason.
    One of my wife's friends is in obstetrics/gynaecology and she was over recently lamenting the militant attachment that midwives in this country have got to natural birth, often to the detriment of the mother. She's had to step in multiple times and recommend a c-section and fight the midwife on the reasoning, even though she's got 7 years of medical training and another 5 years experience being in the field she's being countermanded by someone who simply can't see beyond "yeah but natural birth is better". She was saying the whole profession has been completely and totally captured by this thinking.
    Its the same with breastfeeding.

    My wife really, really struggled to feed both our children. It happens to a certain proportion of women but there is so much dogma attached now to "breast is best" that when faced with the need to go for an alternative, it is very hard to get objective information on what alternatives to go for etc

    We found there is very little in the way of support for people who can't breastfeed - and immense pressure of "oh you just need to keep at it" as if we hadn't tried that already.
    I found that too. I was unable to feed my eldest. The midwife insisted. Eventually, the GP - furious at her behaviour - put my son on bottle feeding and the poor child was starving. I had mastitis by this point and was really quite ill so spent the first few weeks after the birth ill and then on antibiotics. The GP - an old-fashioned but very experienced sort - told me he was fed up with the way young midwives, with no experience of giving birth, bullied mothers into feeling guilty if they could not breast feed. My mother was very supportive but the midwives were no good at all.
    4 siblings in my family. 1st 3, including me, breast fed. The youngest had to settle for a bottle. He got one of the best 1st's in Maths that Imperial had seen in years, without busting a gut either, and is now a Prof at a Russell Group Uni. Also the most stable, confident and balanced, one spouse, 2 kids, nuclear family, bla bla. So ...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,380

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pretty bloody ropey after my Moderna booster jab. Seriously sore and frozen arm, general malaise and fatigue. Much worse than AZ, which caused a tiny bit of tenderness in the shoulder...

    That's a sign that you've probably previously had COVID.
    I am now near-certain that I did have Covid way back in January 2020, caught in Thailand. That's what Public Health England thought, that's why they sent me to be tested in UCLH, tho a SNAFU prevented any actual test

    It would also explain why I haven't caught Covid since, despite taking many risks in recent months: pubs, bars, restaurants, planes, the works
    "That's a sign that you've probably previously had COVID."

    Is it? First I've heard of that idea.
    Yes it has been punted before, by proper scientists, tho there are also other explanations, ofc
    Hey, my Chemistry degree still just about qualifies me as a "proper scientist" just not a practicing one.
    You never lose the scientific training.
    You know a junior asked me earlier this year whether or not I thought my degree was useful, I was going to say "not really" as always but actually after having a short think about it, I think it is pretty useful. Not the chemistry because fuck that noise, but the methodology of being a scientist and being open to any and all criticism of a theory, idea or model. I think a lot of our more public scientists, especially those in iSAGE, seem to have forgotten that a big part of science is having regular retrospectives on current theories vs real life data. It's something I've noticed myself doing over the course of this pandemic, go back on old ideas and make sure they are still relevant.

    Too many of the public scientific advisors aren't doing that exercise right now. Just today I read that some SAGE scientists are calling for the immediate implementation of plan b, despite there being not very much evidence to support that. They're stuck in a timeloop of a political agenda that lockdown measures are the only way to combat this. I'm sure when Germany, France and other major European countries go into a full lockdown in two weeks those same voices will condemn the government as irresponsible and callous for not doing the same here and in the process completely ignore the available real world data on infection rates, testing and hospitalisation.
    Agree - and it can have very real world consequences - take the AIDS pandemic - no one had to explain to Thatcher the horrors of exponential growth in an infection - something the current incumbent seemed to have difficulty getting his head around.

    Favourite observations on science "Many a grand beautiful theory has been destroyed by a single ugly fact" (yes, iSAGE, I'm looking at you - and these aren't "single" facts but whole battalions of them.)

    And of the French (which may be playing a part in the NI problems) - "it's all very well it working in practice - but does it work in theory?" I fear the EU are hung up on the theory of the integrity of the single market, ignoring the practical solutions and the ramifications of their absolutism.
    I mentioned before (I believe) a chap who accidentally disproved his own PhD right at the end, and presented the evidence at his viva.

    I would have given him his PhD and a Professorship to boot - *that* was True Science.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 1,847
    edited November 2021

    Fuck... This guy is usually on the we should be calm, things are going ok, no need for more lockdowns end of spectrum:

    Prof Francois Balloux
    @BallouxFrancois
    ·
    25m
    OK, it looks like we may have a Nu Variant of Concern on our hands ... 😕

    Two questions:
    - Does having had Delta already stop you catching it or significantly reduce the symptoms?
    - Does the vaccine stop you catching it or significantly reduce the symptoms?

    If the answer to the first question is yes, and to the second question, no - then the solution is obvious.


    Get your third vax, and go clubbing.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,496

    Shut the border to SA now!

    Now. Not next month. Not after that trade trip that must happen because Brexit or whatever this time's excuse is.

    Agreed. As a precaution, although the South Africans are prone to panicking about variants.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094
    Another variant, another winter of lockdown, another spike in deaths, another vaccine, and on and on it goes, forever and ever until the death knell of a doomed and blacknened universe sounds across the empty void

    China might have killed the world


    *eyes gin*
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004
    HYUFD said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Yep, Woke not a problem


    "Students at Washington’s Catholic University of America seek to remove George Floyd Jesus"

    "Students at a Catholic university are petitioning to remove a “heretical” painting that depicts George Floyd as Jesus.

    "Mama, by Kelly Latimore, shows Floyd being cradled by a maternal figure and evokes Michelangelo’s Pietà sculpture of Mary and Jesus after the crucifixion."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/students-at-washingtons-catholic-university-of-america-seek-to-remove-george-floyd-jesus-7tw69fzgr?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1637847470

    I can't work out who's meant to be woke here..

    Is the painting woke?

    Or are those "cancelling" it woke because it upsets them?
    The painting is Woke.

    Woke is becoming a religion. There was an excellent essay on this exact phenomenon in the Spectator, quite recently

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-if-wokeness-really-is-the-new-christianity-
    So you're on the side of those in favour of cancellations?

    Cancellation culture is good now?

    I am shocked! Shocked! At this revelation. 😱
    It is genuinely fascinating how Woke is infesting the Christian church. And again it is an uncanny echo of Christianity's own genesis

    When the early Christians wished to convert some heathen tribe, they often kept the pagan shrines intact, and simply imposed their own symbols and buildings thereupon, thus absorbing the spiritual power of the Old Faith into the New. That's why so many churches in the UK and beyond are built on pagan sites, which can sometimes still be recognised - yew trees are a telling presence. The same happened with Gods - Isis nursing Horus became Mother Mary nursing the baby Jesus.

    See here, the exact same iconography


    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/545961


    Turning George Floyd into Jesus is Wokeness doing to Christianity what Christianity did to Zeus, Woden, Osiris and Valhalla. A pleasing symmetry, but a menacing development, which completely vindicates the prediction made in that superb Spectator essay by an ex PB-er
    Leaving aside the George Floyd Jesus it is a good thing there are more black Jesus images, especially as the average Christian worldwide is more likely to be black than white now in the 21st century.

    Jesus himself was Middle Eastern not European of course
    SOCIALISM = RELIGION

    therefore:

    RELIGION = SOCIALISM!
    What utter rubbish, when the main socialist nations left on earth eg North Korea, China and Cuba are headed by atheists and religion actually means less reliance on state welfare with more religious provision instead.

    Socialism is state control of most of the economy, please check your definition next time, it has zilch to do with religion
    Socialism IS a religion in itself.

    Therefore it is legitimate to say:

    RELIGION = SOCIALISM!
    I don't think any sensible definition of the 'equals' sign allows your post to make sense.

    HYUFD believes in God, therefore he is a Socialist :lol:

    :lol:
    On your logic Thatcher was a socialist and Mao and Corbyn are capitalists
    I have no qualms to say I am happy to be CoE, but my counsellor I talk to a lot isn’t.

    What are you HYUFD would you like to say?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,472
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shut the border to SA now!

    Now. Not next month. Not after that trade trip that must happen because Brexit or whatever this time's excuse is.

    It's almost a certainty that this variant is already here.
    Could it be behind the huge surge in European cases?

    eg the Netherlands is in a really bad situation, despite high vaccine rates and early opening (like us). Lots of links between the Netherlands and South Africa, obvs.

    How much sampling are they doing?
    It's a possibility, sadly not a lot of sequencing outside of the UK and Denmark in Europe. Loads of countries saw what happened when we announced alpha and delta to the world and got shat on for it so have decided not to bother.

    The Netherlands pussied out in August iirc and put measures back in place when they had rising cases. They definitely haven't had the scale of cases we've had since the end of May, at least.
  • Not saying Tom Baker wasn't a great role model but I feel his genitals had little to do with it.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1463886950704820232?s=20
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shut the border to SA now!

    Now. Not next month. Not after that trade trip that must happen because Brexit or whatever this time's excuse is.

    It's almost a certainty that this variant is already here.
    Could it be behind the huge surge in European cases?

    eg the Netherlands is in a really bad situation, despite high vaccine rates and early opening (like us). Lots of links between the Netherlands and South Africa, obvs.

    How much sampling are they doing?
    It's a possibility, sadly not a lot of sequencing outside of the UK and Denmark in Europe. Loads of countries saw what happened when we announced alpha and delta to the world and got shat on for it so have decided not to bother.

    The Netherlands pussied out in August iirc and put measures back in place when they had rising cases. They definitely haven't had the scale of cases we've had since the end of May, at least.
    I've got a horrible feeling about this variant and the Netherlands. They have just announced an even tighter curfew, all hospitality and non-essential shops to close at 5pm

    https://twitter.com/NUnl/status/1463881927207882766?s=20

    Max, I WARNED YOU ABOUT COVID HUBRIS

    If 3m Britons die in the next ten weeks, you do realise you are personally responsible? Hope that's OK. No biggie
  • eekeek Posts: 17,710

    Shut the border to SA now!

    Now. Not next month. Not after that trade trip that must happen because Brexit or whatever this time's excuse is.

    Agreed. As a precaution, although the South Africans are prone to panicking about variants.
    Given that most of South Africa appeared to be hit at when Covid last raged through the country, you can see why SA may panic that a new variant has arrived were a lot of people to get it.

    At the moment though this seems to be a strain few people have caught.
  • Leon said:

    Another variant, another winter of lockdown, another spike in deaths, another vaccine, and on and on it goes, forever and ever until the death knell of a doomed and blacknened universe sounds across the empty void

    China might have killed the world


    *eyes gin*

    Friendly reminder that new variants are just that: new. We can’t know if they will be bad or just meh based on sequence alone, nor guess at their provenance. Lots of mutations ≠ very bad.

    This Thanksgiving, I remain grateful for genomic surveillance & safe, effective vaccines.


    https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/1463874468065861639?s=20
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,660
    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    MaxPB said:

    The reason COVID is so deadly is that it is almost perfectly adapted to the ACE-2 receptor and it enters the cell by using the spike protein which binds with very, very high efficiency to those ACE-2 sites on human cells. That's not something we normally see with this kind of virus, hence the "novel"Coronavirus name at the beginning, it was essentially a completely new type of coronavirus with ACE-2 binding.

    "Novel" just means new. It doesn't mean "unusual" or "abnormal". It was called "novel" just because this particular virus hadn't been seen before.
    The virus had never been seen before because it was engineered in a Wuhan lab to be perfectly adapted to humans, via humanised mice, from the get go
    ... is a theory that used to be laughed at but now must be (and is) taken seriously.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094
    We need to know how many Dutch cases and hospital admissions are amongst the vaxed. If the number is low, we can relax. Maybe
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,331

    Not saying Tom Baker wasn't a great role model but I feel his genitals had little to do with it...

    I never saw that episode.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sleazy broken Scottish Nationalism on the slide

    A poll by YouGov for The Times finds that 40 per cent of people say they would vote yes in another referendum, a drop of one point compared with the company’s last survey in May.

    The proportion of people who would vote no remained at 46 per cent, while 9 per cent said they were unsure, up by one point. The remainder would not vote or refused to say.



    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/voters-lose-interest-on-union-question-25mzsz3r8

    Astonishing that despite Brexit and PM Boris Sturgeon has actually managed to see Yes fall by 5% below the 45% it got in the 2014 referendum.

    No wonder Salmond and Alba are so furious and of course no prospect of a legal indyref2 under this Tory government either
    The actual Yes figure is 46.5% - which is above the 2014 referendum figure.

    But of course you are muddling figures which include and which exclude DKs.

    Professor Curtice would not be impressed.
    It is 40% including DKs, so in terms of all voters below the 45% from 2014 as I said
    Here we go again. So you agree that a majority do not explicitly support the Union?
    The majority explicitly supported the Union in 2014 in a once in a generation referendum and this Tory government as long as it remains in power will not allow another indyref2 for at least a generation until 2014 has elapsed
    So democracy doesn’t apply to Scotland. The very essence of colonialism.
    No, colonialism is when a foreign power occupies your land, without your permission, and then rules it without giving you equal representation in the legislature

    Scotland willingly entered the Union with England, and it is fully represented at Westminster, as WELL as having highly significant autonomous powers at Holyrood. Indeed Scots are able to vote on some English laws when the opposite is not the case. If there is any hint of colonialism here, it is Scottish power over the English
    That's true as long as its a voluntary union.

    If Scotland can not vote its way out of the union, it ceases to be voluntary.
    Scotland can vote itself out of the union by persuading MPs at Westminster, which is Scotland's own sovereign, shared parliament, where Scotland is equally and fully represented, that Scotland needs an indy referendum

    We know this works because the Scots thus persuaded Westminster in 2014. A referendum was granted, the Scots said No, that is the end of the matter for a generation UNLESS Westminster can be persuaded, again. Perhaps the Nats should try that instead of moaning
    48 of the 59 MPs Scotland elects were elected on a manifesto of having another referendum. That is a very clear overwhelming majority of their MPs in Westminster.

    Unless you're saying it doesn't matter a jot what the Scottish voters say, their future in the union can only be changed if the English MPs agree. Is that what you're saying?
    Yep. You can have whatever you want if we agree with you. If we disagree you can do one.

    When the union was formed it was mutual - like a marriage. What Leon and HYUFD are saying is that Scotland can't have a divorce unless the husband agrees.
    In many countries you can't have a divorce unless the husband agrees, especially in the Middle East. The Roman Catholic church also greatly discourages divorce.

    Certainly constant demands for divorce are not helpful, especially when it was already agreed to stay together once only a few years ago, divorce should be a last resort

    Quite right. No good skank ho's should know their place. Just cos I shagged her best friend and started slapping her round a bit whilst drunk she has no right to ask for a divorce because she already agreed to stay together once only a few years ago,

    Her constant demands for divorce are not helpful
    I would not stop the legal right to a divorce, which was not granted in the UK until 1857 with divorce still illegal in Ireland until 1995. However I would leave it as a last resort, not something to be constantly demanded every 5 minutes rather then preserving your union
    The problem - to continue with this analogy - is that once we go to couples councilling you are sitting there with your arms folded telling the wife that whatever she wants and whatever she says she can't have it and thats final. Which pretty much guarantees that divorce follows.
    The wife agreed to stay just 7 years ago and has contol over much of her own affairs now anyway
    You analogy really doesn't work well.
    I'm getting all confused. HYUFD is adducing ME and RC attitudes to divorce as models for the constitutional settlement.

    Yet he is always telling us about the glories of the English state with its head of both state and church simultaneously (which as a good Scottish Presbyterian I find shockingly Erastian, but never mind).

    I think someone ought to take him by the hand and gently explain to him the reasons for the original Henrician Settlement. With words like 'Catherine of Aragon', 'divorce', and 'Rome'.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,869
    edited November 2021

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Yep, Woke not a problem


    "Students at Washington’s Catholic University of America seek to remove George Floyd Jesus"

    "Students at a Catholic university are petitioning to remove a “heretical” painting that depicts George Floyd as Jesus.

    "Mama, by Kelly Latimore, shows Floyd being cradled by a maternal figure and evokes Michelangelo’s Pietà sculpture of Mary and Jesus after the crucifixion."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/students-at-washingtons-catholic-university-of-america-seek-to-remove-george-floyd-jesus-7tw69fzgr?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1637847470

    I can't work out who's meant to be woke here..

    Is the painting woke?

    Or are those "cancelling" it woke because it upsets them?
    The painting is Woke.

    Woke is becoming a religion. There was an excellent essay on this exact phenomenon in the Spectator, quite recently

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-if-wokeness-really-is-the-new-christianity-
    So you're on the side of those in favour of cancellations?

    Cancellation culture is good now?

    I am shocked! Shocked! At this revelation. 😱
    It is genuinely fascinating how Woke is infesting the Christian church. And again it is an uncanny echo of Christianity's own genesis

    When the early Christians wished to convert some heathen tribe, they often kept the pagan shrines intact, and simply imposed their own symbols and buildings thereupon, thus absorbing the spiritual power of the Old Faith into the New. That's why so many churches in the UK and beyond are built on pagan sites, which can sometimes still be recognised - yew trees are a telling presence. The same happened with Gods - Isis nursing Horus became Mother Mary nursing the baby Jesus.

    See here, the exact same iconography


    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/545961


    Turning George Floyd into Jesus is Wokeness doing to Christianity what Christianity did to Zeus, Woden, Osiris and Valhalla. A pleasing symmetry, but a menacing development, which completely vindicates the prediction made in that superb Spectator essay by an ex PB-er
    Leaving aside the George Floyd Jesus it is a good thing there are more black Jesus images, especially as the average Christian worldwide is more likely to be black than white now in the 21st century.

    Jesus himself was Middle Eastern not European of course
    SOCIALISM = RELIGION

    therefore:

    RELIGION = SOCIALISM!
    What utter rubbish, when the main socialist nations left on earth eg North Korea, China and Cuba are headed by atheists and religion actually means less reliance on state welfare with more religious provision instead.

    Socialism is state control of most of the economy, please check your definition next time, it has zilch to do with religion
    Socialism IS a religion in itself.

    Therefore it is legitimate to say:

    RELIGION = SOCIALISM!
    I don't think any sensible definition of the 'equals' sign allows your post to make sense.

    To be fair to Sunil Prasannan point, believing in Marxism is not so that different than believing in Scientology? Marxism is supposed to be scientific?

    Though my understanding of dialectic as in Dialectical Marxism is argumentative and contrarian, which to me doesn’t make the phrase much sense
    Yes, but all religious people are not Socialists.

    That’s true. But surely Sunil’s argument is should they be?

    We sit through sermons saying “ Christ calls us to fill with empathy and fellow feeling, to be able to walk in somebody else’s shoes and see through their eyes. To feel their cold, to feel their hunger. To bear their hardship. Yes. Our Christian faith demands deeds not just words. A calling is not just within the walls of church or abbey, it is the life and community in which a congregation resides; not just this moment, but always. Our sweet hour of prayer actually lasts the whole week long, to put our faith in action is more than just individual salvation, this our collective salvation: to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, house the homeless, not a call for isolated charity… this is the imperative of a loving community.
    And so our calling is to be for all eternity.”

    Not really paying attention, All the time thinking how quickly we can get away to go shopping and buy ourselves things?
    Alternative religions are available.

    All nuts mind you.

    Your question as to whether religion implies Socialism really becomes obviously anwered in the greater context.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Yep, Woke not a problem


    "Students at Washington’s Catholic University of America seek to remove George Floyd Jesus"

    "Students at a Catholic university are petitioning to remove a “heretical” painting that depicts George Floyd as Jesus.

    "Mama, by Kelly Latimore, shows Floyd being cradled by a maternal figure and evokes Michelangelo’s Pietà sculpture of Mary and Jesus after the crucifixion."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/students-at-washingtons-catholic-university-of-america-seek-to-remove-george-floyd-jesus-7tw69fzgr?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1637847470

    I can't work out who's meant to be woke here..

    Is the painting woke?

    Or are those "cancelling" it woke because it upsets them?
    The painting is Woke.

    Woke is becoming a religion. There was an excellent essay on this exact phenomenon in the Spectator, quite recently

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-if-wokeness-really-is-the-new-christianity-
    So you're on the side of those in favour of cancellations?

    Cancellation culture is good now?

    I am shocked! Shocked! At this revelation. 😱
    It is genuinely fascinating how Woke is infesting the Christian church. And again it is an uncanny echo of Christianity's own genesis

    When the early Christians wished to convert some heathen tribe, they often kept the pagan shrines intact, and simply imposed their own symbols and buildings thereupon, thus absorbing the spiritual power of the Old Faith into the New. That's why so many churches in the UK and beyond are built on pagan sites, which can sometimes still be recognised - yew trees are a telling presence. The same happened with Gods - Isis nursing Horus became Mother Mary nursing the baby Jesus.

    See here, the exact same iconography


    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/545961


    Turning George Floyd into Jesus is Wokeness doing to Christianity what Christianity did to Zeus, Woden, Osiris and Valhalla. A pleasing symmetry, but a menacing development, which completely vindicates the prediction made in that superb Spectator essay by an ex PB-er
    Leaving aside the George Floyd Jesus it is a good thing there are more black Jesus images, especially as the average Christian worldwide is more likely to be black than white now in the 21st century.

    Jesus himself was Middle Eastern not European of course
    I see him as looking like Robert Powell. I try to conjur up other visions in a quest for diversity but none of them will stick.
    I'm afraid the Mel Gibson version has somewhat taken over the embodiment of JC in my mind. That the actor playing him has turned out to be a QAnon loon somehow seems entirely appropriate.


    So you see mate, we are going to hammer these big nails through your hands. And then Herb over there - hi Herb - is going to plunge this spear into your side. And then cake. We are going to have cake.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689

    Not saying Tom Baker wasn't a great role model but I feel his genitals had little to do with it.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1463886950704820232?s=20

    I'm going to use the Doctor Who defence next time I'm nabbed for shoplifting.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    MaxPB said:

    The reason COVID is so deadly is that it is almost perfectly adapted to the ACE-2 receptor and it enters the cell by using the spike protein which binds with very, very high efficiency to those ACE-2 sites on human cells. That's not something we normally see with this kind of virus, hence the "novel"Coronavirus name at the beginning, it was essentially a completely new type of coronavirus with ACE-2 binding.

    "Novel" just means new. It doesn't mean "unusual" or "abnormal". It was called "novel" just because this particular virus hadn't been seen before.
    The virus had never been seen before because it was engineered in a Wuhan lab to be perfectly adapted to humans, via humanised mice, from the get go
    ... is a theory that used to be laughed at but now must be (and is) taken seriously.
    You might have added the fact that you were one of the people that laughed at that theory, until really quite recently

    But hey. I don't want fisticuffs. I still feel shite from Moderna and now we are looking at the near-certain extinction of human civilisation by next April. Not the best day
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,331
    US Catholics appear to have some very odd ideas about their history.

    Contrary to what the Left wants, let's all partake in "self-indulgent family feasting" on Thanksgiving and thank the Lord for our Catholic-rooted national holiday.
    https://twitter.com/CatholicLeague/status/1463598382350573572
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Yep, Woke not a problem


    "Students at Washington’s Catholic University of America seek to remove George Floyd Jesus"

    "Students at a Catholic university are petitioning to remove a “heretical” painting that depicts George Floyd as Jesus.

    "Mama, by Kelly Latimore, shows Floyd being cradled by a maternal figure and evokes Michelangelo’s Pietà sculpture of Mary and Jesus after the crucifixion."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/students-at-washingtons-catholic-university-of-america-seek-to-remove-george-floyd-jesus-7tw69fzgr?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1637847470

    I can't work out who's meant to be woke here..

    Is the painting woke?

    Or are those "cancelling" it woke because it upsets them?
    The painting is Woke.

    Woke is becoming a religion. There was an excellent essay on this exact phenomenon in the Spectator, quite recently

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-if-wokeness-really-is-the-new-christianity-
    So you're on the side of those in favour of cancellations?

    Cancellation culture is good now?

    I am shocked! Shocked! At this revelation. 😱
    It is genuinely fascinating how Woke is infesting the Christian church. And again it is an uncanny echo of Christianity's own genesis

    When the early Christians wished to convert some heathen tribe, they often kept the pagan shrines intact, and simply imposed their own symbols and buildings thereupon, thus absorbing the spiritual power of the Old Faith into the New. That's why so many churches in the UK and beyond are built on pagan sites, which can sometimes still be recognised - yew trees are a telling presence. The same happened with Gods - Isis nursing Horus became Mother Mary nursing the baby Jesus.

    See here, the exact same iconography


    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/545961


    Turning George Floyd into Jesus is Wokeness doing to Christianity what Christianity did to Zeus, Woden, Osiris and Valhalla. A pleasing symmetry, but a menacing development, which completely vindicates the prediction made in that superb Spectator essay by an ex PB-er
    Leaving aside the George Floyd Jesus it is a good thing there are more black Jesus images, especially as the average Christian worldwide is more likely to be black than white now in the 21st century.

    Jesus himself was Middle Eastern not European of course
    SOCIALISM = RELIGION

    therefore:

    RELIGION = SOCIALISM!
    What utter rubbish, when the main socialist nations left on earth eg North Korea, China and Cuba are headed by atheists and religion actually means less reliance on state welfare with more religious provision instead.

    Socialism is state control of most of the economy, please check your definition next time, it has zilch to do with religion
    Socialism IS a religion in itself.

    Therefore it is legitimate to say:

    RELIGION = SOCIALISM!
    I don't think any sensible definition of the 'equals' sign allows your post to make sense.

    To be fair to Sunil Prasannan point, believing in Marxism is not so that different than believing in Scientology? Marxism is supposed to be scientific?

    Though my understanding of dialectic as in Dialectical Marxism is argumentative and contrarian, which to me doesn’t make the phrase much sense
    Yes, but all religious people are not Socialists.

    That’s true. But surely Sunil’s argument is should they be?

    We sit through sermons saying “ Christ calls us to fill with empathy and fellow feeling, to be able to walk in somebody else’s shoes and see through their eyes. To feel their cold, to feel their hunger. To bear their hardship. Yes. Our Christian faith demands deeds not just words. A calling is not just within the walls of church or abbey, it is the life and community in which a congregation resides; not just this moment, but always. Our sweet hour of prayer actually lasts the whole week long, to put our faith in action is more than just individual salvation, this our collective salvation: to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, house the homeless, not a call for isolated charity… this is the imperative of a loving community.
    And so our calling is to be for all eternity.”

    Not really paying attention, All the time thinking how quickly we can get away to go shopping and buy ourselves things?
    Alternative religions are available.

    All nuts mind you.

    You'r question as to whether religion implies Socialism really becomes obviously anwered in the greater context.
    St Francis of Assisi?

    Patron saint of pole vaulters?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875

    Not saying Tom Baker wasn't a great role model but I feel his genitals had little to do with it.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1463886950704820232?s=20

    No,.no. Self-identification innit.
  • Nigelb said:

    Not saying Tom Baker wasn't a great role model but I feel his genitals had little to do with it...

    I never saw that episode.
    It was a wild night down the Colony Room and..

    Great pic of person and venue btw



  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,347
    edited November 2021
    The new variant may change the booster calculation a bit - perhaps we should roll out to all 18+ a bit quicker than previously. Massive amounts of antibodies even if they're not quite a perfect fit are the best defence for the nu variant.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,660

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Yep, Woke not a problem


    "Students at Washington’s Catholic University of America seek to remove George Floyd Jesus"

    "Students at a Catholic university are petitioning to remove a “heretical” painting that depicts George Floyd as Jesus.

    "Mama, by Kelly Latimore, shows Floyd being cradled by a maternal figure and evokes Michelangelo’s Pietà sculpture of Mary and Jesus after the crucifixion."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/students-at-washingtons-catholic-university-of-america-seek-to-remove-george-floyd-jesus-7tw69fzgr?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1637847470

    I can't work out who's meant to be woke here..

    Is the painting woke?

    Or are those "cancelling" it woke because it upsets them?
    The painting is Woke.

    Woke is becoming a religion. There was an excellent essay on this exact phenomenon in the Spectator, quite recently

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-if-wokeness-really-is-the-new-christianity-
    So you're on the side of those in favour of cancellations?

    Cancellation culture is good now?

    I am shocked! Shocked! At this revelation. 😱
    It is genuinely fascinating how Woke is infesting the Christian church. And again it is an uncanny echo of Christianity's own genesis

    When the early Christians wished to convert some heathen tribe, they often kept the pagan shrines intact, and simply imposed their own symbols and buildings thereupon, thus absorbing the spiritual power of the Old Faith into the New. That's why so many churches in the UK and beyond are built on pagan sites, which can sometimes still be recognised - yew trees are a telling presence. The same happened with Gods - Isis nursing Horus became Mother Mary nursing the baby Jesus.

    See here, the exact same iconography


    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/545961


    Turning George Floyd into Jesus is Wokeness doing to Christianity what Christianity did to Zeus, Woden, Osiris and Valhalla. A pleasing symmetry, but a menacing development, which completely vindicates the prediction made in that superb Spectator essay by an ex PB-er
    Leaving aside the George Floyd Jesus it is a good thing there are more black Jesus images, especially as the average Christian worldwide is more likely to be black than white now in the 21st century.

    Jesus himself was Middle Eastern not European of course
    I see him as looking like Robert Powell. I try to conjur up other visions in a quest for diversity but none of them will stick.
    I'm afraid the Mel Gibson version has somewhat taken over the embodiment of JC in my mind. That the actor playing him has turned out to be a QAnon loon somehow seems entirely appropriate.


    Ah, I never saw that film. It was a gory number apparently. The viewer got to see every last prolonged detail of Jesus/Mel dying to save us all.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,869

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Yep, Woke not a problem


    "Students at Washington’s Catholic University of America seek to remove George Floyd Jesus"

    "Students at a Catholic university are petitioning to remove a “heretical” painting that depicts George Floyd as Jesus.

    "Mama, by Kelly Latimore, shows Floyd being cradled by a maternal figure and evokes Michelangelo’s Pietà sculpture of Mary and Jesus after the crucifixion."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/students-at-washingtons-catholic-university-of-america-seek-to-remove-george-floyd-jesus-7tw69fzgr?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1637847470

    I can't work out who's meant to be woke here..

    Is the painting woke?

    Or are those "cancelling" it woke because it upsets them?
    The painting is Woke.

    Woke is becoming a religion. There was an excellent essay on this exact phenomenon in the Spectator, quite recently

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-if-wokeness-really-is-the-new-christianity-
    So you're on the side of those in favour of cancellations?

    Cancellation culture is good now?

    I am shocked! Shocked! At this revelation. 😱
    It is genuinely fascinating how Woke is infesting the Christian church. And again it is an uncanny echo of Christianity's own genesis

    When the early Christians wished to convert some heathen tribe, they often kept the pagan shrines intact, and simply imposed their own symbols and buildings thereupon, thus absorbing the spiritual power of the Old Faith into the New. That's why so many churches in the UK and beyond are built on pagan sites, which can sometimes still be recognised - yew trees are a telling presence. The same happened with Gods - Isis nursing Horus became Mother Mary nursing the baby Jesus.

    See here, the exact same iconography


    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/545961


    Turning George Floyd into Jesus is Wokeness doing to Christianity what Christianity did to Zeus, Woden, Osiris and Valhalla. A pleasing symmetry, but a menacing development, which completely vindicates the prediction made in that superb Spectator essay by an ex PB-er
    Leaving aside the George Floyd Jesus it is a good thing there are more black Jesus images, especially as the average Christian worldwide is more likely to be black than white now in the 21st century.

    Jesus himself was Middle Eastern not European of course
    SOCIALISM = RELIGION

    therefore:

    RELIGION = SOCIALISM!
    What utter rubbish, when the main socialist nations left on earth eg North Korea, China and Cuba are headed by atheists and religion actually means less reliance on state welfare with more religious provision instead.

    Socialism is state control of most of the economy, please check your definition next time, it has zilch to do with religion
    Socialism IS a religion in itself.

    Therefore it is legitimate to say:

    RELIGION = SOCIALISM!
    I don't think any sensible definition of the 'equals' sign allows your post to make sense.

    To be fair to Sunil Prasannan point, believing in Marxism is not so that different than believing in Scientology? Marxism is supposed to be scientific?

    Though my understanding of dialectic as in Dialectical Marxism is argumentative and contrarian, which to me doesn’t make the phrase much sense
    Yes, but all religious people are not Socialists.

    That’s true. But surely Sunil’s argument is should they be?

    We sit through sermons saying “ Christ calls us to fill with empathy and fellow feeling, to be able to walk in somebody else’s shoes and see through their eyes. To feel their cold, to feel their hunger. To bear their hardship. Yes. Our Christian faith demands deeds not just words. A calling is not just within the walls of church or abbey, it is the life and community in which a congregation resides; not just this moment, but always. Our sweet hour of prayer actually lasts the whole week long, to put our faith in action is more than just individual salvation, this our collective salvation: to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, house the homeless, not a call for isolated charity… this is the imperative of a loving community.
    And so our calling is to be for all eternity.”

    Not really paying attention, All the time thinking how quickly we can get away to go shopping and buy ourselves things?
    Alternative religions are available.

    All nuts mind you.

    You'r question as to whether religion implies Socialism really becomes obviously anwered in the greater context.
    St Francis of Assisi?

    Patron saint of pole vaulters?
    Surely Francis of Assisti!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 19,087
    Leon said:

    Another variant, another winter of lockdown, another spike in deaths, another vaccine, and on and on it goes, forever and ever until the death knell of a doomed and blacknened universe sounds across the empty void

    China might have killed the world

    *eyes gin*

    Let's assume for a moment that China started this, either deliberately or by accident*...

    Maybe they have done us all a big favour?

    There was always going to be a pandemic like this at some point. We are *very* lucky that the IFR for Covid is sub 1%; it could have been >30%. That would have threatened civilisation as we know it.

    One has to hope that the long term fall-out of Covid will be much better plans for the control and containment of future pandemics.

    (*FWIW I think <5% chance it was deliberate; 40-50% human created but accidental; c. 50% natural)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094

    Leon said:

    Another variant, another winter of lockdown, another spike in deaths, another vaccine, and on and on it goes, forever and ever until the death knell of a doomed and blacknened universe sounds across the empty void

    China might have killed the world


    *eyes gin*

    Friendly reminder that new variants are just that: new. We can’t know if they will be bad or just meh based on sequence alone, nor guess at their provenance. Lots of mutations ≠ very bad.

    This Thanksgiving, I remain grateful for genomic surveillance & safe, effective vaccines.


    https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/1463874468065861639?s=20
    This thread beneath it is less cheerful. I see Pagel is in there. I fear this is cause for concern

    "Bleak SGTF data from SA (proxy for B.1.1.529) in briefing from
    @Tuliodna
    and
    @rjlessells
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=Vh4XMueP1zQ"

    https://twitter.com/theosanderson/status/1463850227887230978?s=20

    Look at that fucking spike. My God

    However this thread suggests the Nu Variant can be detected by PCR tests. So if it is widespread in Europe (inc UK) surely we would have seen it?

    We do need to close the border with SA, today. What harm can it do - as a precaution? - and it might do serious good
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    MaxPB said:

    The reason COVID is so deadly is that it is almost perfectly adapted to the ACE-2 receptor and it enters the cell by using the spike protein which binds with very, very high efficiency to those ACE-2 sites on human cells. That's not something we normally see with this kind of virus, hence the "novel"Coronavirus name at the beginning, it was essentially a completely new type of coronavirus with ACE-2 binding.

    "Novel" just means new. It doesn't mean "unusual" or "abnormal". It was called "novel" just because this particular virus hadn't been seen before.
    The virus had never been seen before because it was engineered in a Wuhan lab to be perfectly adapted to humans, via humanised mice, from the get go
    ... is a theory that used to be laughed at but now must be (and is) taken seriously.
    You might have added the fact that you were one of the people that laughed at that theory, until really quite recently

    But hey. I don't want fisticuffs. I still feel shite from Moderna and now we are looking at the near-certain extinction of human civilisation by next April. Not the best day
    On the bright side, no more migrant boats eh?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pretty bloody ropey after my Moderna booster jab. Seriously sore and frozen arm, general malaise and fatigue. Much worse than AZ, which caused a tiny bit of tenderness in the shoulder...

    That's a sign that you've probably previously had COVID.
    I am now near-certain that I did have Covid way back in January 2020, caught in Thailand. That's what Public Health England thought, that's why they sent me to be tested in UCLH, tho a SNAFU prevented any actual test

    It would also explain why I haven't caught Covid since, despite taking many risks in recent months: pubs, bars, restaurants, planes, the works
    "That's a sign that you've probably previously had COVID."

    Is it? First I've heard of that idea.
    Yes it has been punted before, by proper scientists, tho there are also other explanations, ofc
    Hey, my Chemistry degree still just about qualifies me as a "proper scientist" just not a practicing one.
    You never lose the scientific training.
    You know a junior asked me earlier this year whether or not I thought my degree was useful, I was going to say "not really" as always but actually after having a short think about it, I think it is pretty useful. Not the chemistry because fuck that noise, but the methodology of being a scientist and being open to any and all criticism of a theory, idea or model. I think a lot of our more public scientists, especially those in iSAGE, seem to have forgotten that a big part of science is having regular retrospectives on current theories vs real life data. It's something I've noticed myself doing over the course of this pandemic, go back on old ideas and make sure they are still relevant.

    Too many of the public scientific advisors aren't doing that exercise right now. Just today I read that some SAGE scientists are calling for the immediate implementation of plan b, despite there being not very much evidence to support that. They're stuck in a timeloop of a political agenda that lockdown measures are the only way to combat this. I'm sure when Germany, France and other major European countries go into a full lockdown in two weeks those same voices will condemn the government as irresponsible and callous for not doing the same here and in the process completely ignore the available real world data on infection rates, testing and hospitalisation.
    Agree - and it can have very real world consequences - take the AIDS pandemic - no one had to explain to Thatcher the horrors of exponential growth in an infection - something the current incumbent seemed to have difficulty getting his head around.

    Favourite observations on science "Many a grand beautiful theory has been destroyed by a single ugly fact" (yes, iSAGE, I'm looking at you - and these aren't "single" facts but whole battalions of them.)

    And of the French (which may be playing a part in the NI problems) - "it's all very well it working in practice - but does it work in theory?" I fear the EU are hung up on the theory of the integrity of the single market, ignoring the practical solutions and the ramifications of their absolutism.
    I mentioned before (I believe) a chap who accidentally disproved his own PhD right at the end, and presented the evidence at his viva.

    I would have given him his PhD and a Professorship to boot - *that* was True Science.
    I missed your earlier posting did he get his PhD?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,331
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck... This guy is usually on the we should be calm, things are going ok, no need for more lockdowns end of spectrum:

    Prof Francois Balloux
    @BallouxFrancois
    ·
    25m
    OK, it looks like we may have a Nu Variant of Concern on our hands ... 😕

    We all had this same panic over the beta variant, bloody South Africa chucked out millions of AZ doses over it and ultimately the AZ vaccine was still highly effective against it.

    Let's wait for lab tests on antibody binding efficiency first.
    I think Pagel is right here. Red list SA while we await developments.
    Honestly, that time is over. This variant is probably seeded...
    Nu is of course the thirteenth letter of the Greek alphabet...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,347
    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/with_replies is the absolute best twitter account for Covid info.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck... This guy is usually on the we should be calm, things are going ok, no need for more lockdowns end of spectrum:

    Prof Francois Balloux
    @BallouxFrancois
    ·
    25m
    OK, it looks like we may have a Nu Variant of Concern on our hands ... 😕

    We all had this same panic over the beta variant, bloody South Africa chucked out millions of AZ doses over it and ultimately the AZ vaccine was still highly effective against it.

    Let's wait for lab tests on antibody binding efficiency first.
    I think Pagel is right here. Red list SA while we await developments.
    Honestly, that time is over. This variant is probably seeded...
    Nu is of course the thirteenth letter of the Greek alphabet...
    It's also a great thriller title

    THE NU VARIANT

    Properly sinister - "nu" is a menacing syllable, with its connotations of No, Not, Nothing, Nullity - yet intriguing at the same time

    Just a pity this thriller about the end of the world might not be fiction
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 19,087
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    MaxPB said:

    The reason COVID is so deadly is that it is almost perfectly adapted to the ACE-2 receptor and it enters the cell by using the spike protein which binds with very, very high efficiency to those ACE-2 sites on human cells. That's not something we normally see with this kind of virus, hence the "novel"Coronavirus name at the beginning, it was essentially a completely new type of coronavirus with ACE-2 binding.

    "Novel" just means new. It doesn't mean "unusual" or "abnormal". It was called "novel" just because this particular virus hadn't been seen before.
    The virus had never been seen before because it was engineered in a Wuhan lab to be perfectly adapted to humans, via humanised mice, from the get go
    ... is a theory that used to be laughed at but now must be (and is) taken seriously.
    You might have added the fact that you were one of the people that laughed at that theory, until really quite recently

    But hey. I don't want fisticuffs. I still feel shite from Moderna and now we are looking at the near-certain extinction of human civilisation by next April. Not the best day
    Sorry to hear your booster has made you feel shite.

    We had Az-Az then Pfizer. Very sore arm and a day's moderate 'hangover' after the booster but other than that, fine.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,869
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck... This guy is usually on the we should be calm, things are going ok, no need for more lockdowns end of spectrum:

    Prof Francois Balloux
    @BallouxFrancois
    ·
    25m
    OK, it looks like we may have a Nu Variant of Concern on our hands ... 😕

    We all had this same panic over the beta variant, bloody South Africa chucked out millions of AZ doses over it and ultimately the AZ vaccine was still highly effective against it.

    Let's wait for lab tests on antibody binding efficiency first.
    I think Pagel is right here. Red list SA while we await developments.
    Honestly, that time is over. This variant is probably seeded...
    Nu is of course the thirteenth letter of the Greek alphabet...
    It's also a great thriller title

    THE NU VARIANT

    Properly sinister - "nu" is a menacing syllable, with its connotations of No, Not, Nothing, Nullity - yet intriguing at the same time

    Just a pity this thriller about the end of the world might not be fiction
    The Scots have it covered - Ock Eye!
  • AslanAslan Posts: 939
    Keir Starmer:

    "The Labour leader adds that the UK needs to co-operate with French authorities to help people stuck in camps in northern France leave them safely.

    And he says that while the UK needs an effective border policy, there should be “legal” routes for people to come to the country."

    We have plenty of legal routes for people to come into the country. What Starmer here is arguing for is to create additional routes for people that have paid traffickers to get to Normandy.

    This is insane. It shows Starmer has learned nothing from Merkel's mistakes. All it does it create a massive incentive for more people to come to Northern France, which means more trafficking and more people dying at sea.

    What we actually need to do is cut off the incentive for the travel and instead follow a fair, rules based process. Allow people to apply for asylum at various places in places like Jordan, Kenya etc. Then decide who is genuinely the most persecuted, with a focus on the most hated religious and ethnic minorities, like Ahmadis or Syriac Christians or Yazidis. If people travel all the way to the UK, they get shipped back to these places. If these other countries won't take them, even with payment, let's do it somewhere like South Georgia. Flows would stop pretty quickly once word got out.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    This thread has got its divorce at last.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,380
    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pretty bloody ropey after my Moderna booster jab. Seriously sore and frozen arm, general malaise and fatigue. Much worse than AZ, which caused a tiny bit of tenderness in the shoulder...

    That's a sign that you've probably previously had COVID.
    I am now near-certain that I did have Covid way back in January 2020, caught in Thailand. That's what Public Health England thought, that's why they sent me to be tested in UCLH, tho a SNAFU prevented any actual test

    It would also explain why I haven't caught Covid since, despite taking many risks in recent months: pubs, bars, restaurants, planes, the works
    "That's a sign that you've probably previously had COVID."

    Is it? First I've heard of that idea.
    Yes it has been punted before, by proper scientists, tho there are also other explanations, ofc
    Hey, my Chemistry degree still just about qualifies me as a "proper scientist" just not a practicing one.
    You never lose the scientific training.
    You know a junior asked me earlier this year whether or not I thought my degree was useful, I was going to say "not really" as always but actually after having a short think about it, I think it is pretty useful. Not the chemistry because fuck that noise, but the methodology of being a scientist and being open to any and all criticism of a theory, idea or model. I think a lot of our more public scientists, especially those in iSAGE, seem to have forgotten that a big part of science is having regular retrospectives on current theories vs real life data. It's something I've noticed myself doing over the course of this pandemic, go back on old ideas and make sure they are still relevant.

    Too many of the public scientific advisors aren't doing that exercise right now. Just today I read that some SAGE scientists are calling for the immediate implementation of plan b, despite there being not very much evidence to support that. They're stuck in a timeloop of a political agenda that lockdown measures are the only way to combat this. I'm sure when Germany, France and other major European countries go into a full lockdown in two weeks those same voices will condemn the government as irresponsible and callous for not doing the same here and in the process completely ignore the available real world data on infection rates, testing and hospitalisation.
    Agree - and it can have very real world consequences - take the AIDS pandemic - no one had to explain to Thatcher the horrors of exponential growth in an infection - something the current incumbent seemed to have difficulty getting his head around.

    Favourite observations on science "Many a grand beautiful theory has been destroyed by a single ugly fact" (yes, iSAGE, I'm looking at you - and these aren't "single" facts but whole battalions of them.)

    And of the French (which may be playing a part in the NI problems) - "it's all very well it working in practice - but does it work in theory?" I fear the EU are hung up on the theory of the integrity of the single market, ignoring the practical solutions and the ramifications of their absolutism.
    I mentioned before (I believe) a chap who accidentally disproved his own PhD right at the end, and presented the evidence at his viva.

    I would have given him his PhD and a Professorship to boot - *that* was True Science.
    I missed your earlier posting did he get his PhD?
    No - but they fudged it into a research grant of some kind to let him continue along the new line of enquiry.

    Which I thought was shit solution.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,331
    .
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck... This guy is usually on the we should be calm, things are going ok, no need for more lockdowns end of spectrum:

    Prof Francois Balloux
    @BallouxFrancois
    ·
    25m
    OK, it looks like we may have a Nu Variant of Concern on our hands ... 😕

    We all had this same panic over the beta variant, bloody South Africa chucked out millions of AZ doses over it and ultimately the AZ vaccine was still highly effective against it.

    Let's wait for lab tests on antibody binding efficiency first.
    I think Pagel is right here. Red list SA while we await developments.
    Honestly, that time is over. This variant is probably seeded...
    Nu is of course the thirteenth letter of the Greek alphabet...
    It's also a great thriller title

    THE NU VARIANT

    Properly sinister - "nu" is a menacing syllable, with its connotations of No, Not, Nothing, Nullity - yet intriguing at the same time

    Just a pity this thriller about the end of the world might not be fiction
    I diagnose fever. :smile:
    Have you medicated yet ?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pretty bloody ropey after my Moderna booster jab. Seriously sore and frozen arm, general malaise and fatigue. Much worse than AZ, which caused a tiny bit of tenderness in the shoulder...

    That's a sign that you've probably previously had COVID.
    I am now near-certain that I did have Covid way back in January 2020, caught in Thailand. That's what Public Health England thought, that's why they sent me to be tested in UCLH, tho a SNAFU prevented any actual test

    It would also explain why I haven't caught Covid since, despite taking many risks in recent months: pubs, bars, restaurants, planes, the works
    "That's a sign that you've probably previously had COVID."

    Is it? First I've heard of that idea.
    Yes it has been punted before, by proper scientists, tho there are also other explanations, ofc
    Hey, my Chemistry degree still just about qualifies me as a "proper scientist" just not a practicing one.
    You never lose the scientific training.
    You know a junior asked me earlier this year whether or not I thought my degree was useful, I was going to say "not really" as always but actually after having a short think about it, I think it is pretty useful. Not the chemistry because fuck that noise, but the methodology of being a scientist and being open to any and all criticism of a theory, idea or model. I think a lot of our more public scientists, especially those in iSAGE, seem to have forgotten that a big part of science is having regular retrospectives on current theories vs real life data. It's something I've noticed myself doing over the course of this pandemic, go back on old ideas and make sure they are still relevant.

    Too many of the public scientific advisors aren't doing that exercise right now. Just today I read that some SAGE scientists are calling for the immediate implementation of plan b, despite there being not very much evidence to support that. They're stuck in a timeloop of a political agenda that lockdown measures are the only way to combat this. I'm sure when Germany, France and other major European countries go into a full lockdown in two weeks those same voices will condemn the government as irresponsible and callous for not doing the same here and in the process completely ignore the available real world data on infection rates, testing and hospitalisation.
    Agree - and it can have very real world consequences - take the AIDS pandemic - no one had to explain to Thatcher the horrors of exponential growth in an infection - something the current incumbent seemed to have difficulty getting his head around.

    Favourite observations on science "Many a grand beautiful theory has been destroyed by a single ugly fact" (yes, iSAGE, I'm looking at you - and these aren't "single" facts but whole battalions of them.)

    And of the French (which may be playing a part in the NI problems) - "it's all very well it working in practice - but does it work in theory?" I fear the EU are hung up on the theory of the integrity of the single market, ignoring the practical solutions and the ramifications of their absolutism.
    I mentioned before (I believe) a chap who accidentally disproved his own PhD right at the end, and presented the evidence at his viva.

    I would have given him his PhD and a Professorship to boot - *that* was True Science.
    I missed your earlier posting did he get his PhD?
    No - but they fudged it into a research grant of some kind to let him continue along the new line of enquiry.

    Which I thought was shit solution.
    Awwwww! That's ****ing outrageous. If his skills at research were good enough to build up a hypothesis, test it and write it up - and with the self-critical assessment to dump it - and to have a grant on top -then he had amply fulfilled the criteria for a PhD.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,660

    Nigelb said:

    Not saying Tom Baker wasn't a great role model but I feel his genitals had little to do with it...

    I never saw that episode.
    It was a wild night down the Colony Room and..

    Great pic of person and venue btw


    Apparently Jeff Bernard drank so much and for so long down there in an otherwise motionless position sat at the bar, arm movement only, glass to lips, lighter to cig, cig to lips, glass to lips, ash to floor, glass to lips, finger to barman for another, repeat ad infinitum, that he ended up with incredibly skinny legs and a massive bloated belly, such that even walking a few paces became difficult, drunk or not. Yet the whole scene somehow retains its seedy glamour. It really shouldn't but for me it does.
  • Don’t know if it helps but I feel some people aren’t fully reading the media articles past the headline again. https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1463630279357214725?s=21 The number of mutations, while alarming, doesn’t necessarily mean it has any functional significance yet, and that’s why it should of course-

    be monitored by those in the field (and I don’t mean on Twitter mind you as I think that’s in poor taste) but we have seen worrying variants in the past that have never taken off either. With 10 cases worldwide I think people need to try to keep their head on a little.


    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1463840892381450242?s=20
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 1,847
    edited November 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pretty bloody ropey after my Moderna booster jab. Seriously sore and frozen arm, general malaise and fatigue. Much worse than AZ, which caused a tiny bit of tenderness in the shoulder...

    That's a sign that you've probably previously had COVID.
    I am now near-certain that I did have Covid way back in January 2020, caught in Thailand. That's what Public Health England thought, that's why they sent me to be tested in UCLH, tho a SNAFU prevented any actual test

    It would also explain why I haven't caught Covid since, despite taking many risks in recent months: pubs, bars, restaurants, planes, the works
    "That's a sign that you've probably previously had COVID."

    Is it? First I've heard of that idea.
    Yes it has been punted before, by proper scientists, tho there are also other explanations, ofc
    Hey, my Chemistry degree still just about qualifies me as a "proper scientist" just not a practicing one.
    You never lose the scientific training.
    You know a junior asked me earlier this year whether or not I thought my degree was useful, I was going to say "not really" as always but actually after having a short think about it, I think it is pretty useful. Not the chemistry because fuck that noise, but the methodology of being a scientist and being open to any and all criticism of a theory, idea or model. I think a lot of our more public scientists, especially those in iSAGE, seem to have forgotten that a big part of science is having regular retrospectives on current theories vs real life data. It's something I've noticed myself doing over the course of this pandemic, go back on old ideas and make sure they are still relevant.

    Too many of the public scientific advisors aren't doing that exercise right now. Just today I read that some SAGE scientists are calling for the immediate implementation of plan b, despite there being not very much evidence to support that. They're stuck in a timeloop of a political agenda that lockdown measures are the only way to combat this. I'm sure when Germany, France and other major European countries go into a full lockdown in two weeks those same voices will condemn the government as irresponsible and callous for not doing the same here and in the process completely ignore the available real world data on infection rates, testing and hospitalisation.
    Agree - and it can have very real world consequences - take the AIDS pandemic - no one had to explain to Thatcher the horrors of exponential growth in an infection - something the current incumbent seemed to have difficulty getting his head around.

    Favourite observations on science "Many a grand beautiful theory has been destroyed by a single ugly fact" (yes, iSAGE, I'm looking at you - and these aren't "single" facts but whole battalions of them.)

    And of the French (which may be playing a part in the NI problems) - "it's all very well it working in practice - but does it work in theory?" I fear the EU are hung up on the theory of the integrity of the single market, ignoring the practical solutions and the ramifications of their absolutism.
    I mentioned before (I believe) a chap who accidentally disproved his own PhD right at the end, and presented the evidence at his viva.

    I would have given him his PhD and a Professorship to boot - *that* was True Science.
    I missed your earlier posting did he get his PhD?
    No - but they fudged it into a research grant of some kind to let him continue along the new line of enquiry.

    Which I thought was shit solution.
    Awwwww! That's ****ing outrageous. If his skills at research were good enough to build up a hypothesis, test it and write it up - and with the self-critical assessment to dump it - and to have a grant on top -then he had amply fulfilled the criteria for a PhD.
    A friend of mine was doing a mathematics PhD (well, DPhil to be precise) on possible solutions to a particular type of equation.

    He managed to prove some time in year two (in a couple of pages) that no such solutions existed.

    His supervisor helpfully suggested he carry on and show what they would have looked like had they existed...

    No PhD. Utter joke.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,869
    Aslan said:

    Keir Starmer:

    "The Labour leader adds that the UK needs to co-operate with French authorities to help people stuck in camps in northern France leave them safely.

    And he says that while the UK needs an effective border policy, there should be “legal” routes for people to come to the country."

    We have plenty of legal routes for people to come into the country. What Starmer here is arguing for is to create additional routes for people that have paid traffickers to get to Normandy.

    This is insane. It shows Starmer has learned nothing from Merkel's mistakes. All it does it create a massive incentive for more people to come to Northern France, which means more trafficking and more people dying at sea.

    What we actually need to do is cut off the incentive for the travel and instead follow a fair, rules based process. Allow people to apply for asylum at various places in places like Jordan, Kenya etc. Then decide who is genuinely the most persecuted, with a focus on the most hated religious and ethnic minorities, like Ahmadis or Syriac Christians or Yazidis. If people travel all the way to the UK, they get shipped back to these places. If these other countries won't take them, even with payment, let's do it somewhere like South Georgia. Flows would stop pretty quickly once word got out.

    Repatriation to Calais is the solution. We could even give them shopping vouchers (boats excluded).

    Most of these people are just lurking in France without any right to do so. The French need to end this. Incidentally the British authorities need to take a firm grip on all of the roadside beggars etc. Again people that should simply be removed. Those passing through the proper doorway and having some decent claim - hey, welcome to the uk. The others, not.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,660
    edited November 2021
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    MaxPB said:

    The reason COVID is so deadly is that it is almost perfectly adapted to the ACE-2 receptor and it enters the cell by using the spike protein which binds with very, very high efficiency to those ACE-2 sites on human cells. That's not something we normally see with this kind of virus, hence the "novel"Coronavirus name at the beginning, it was essentially a completely new type of coronavirus with ACE-2 binding.

    "Novel" just means new. It doesn't mean "unusual" or "abnormal". It was called "novel" just because this particular virus hadn't been seen before.
    The virus had never been seen before because it was engineered in a Wuhan lab to be perfectly adapted to humans, via humanised mice, from the get go
    ... is a theory that used to be laughed at but now must be (and is) taken seriously.
    You might have added the fact that you were one of the people that laughed at that theory, until really quite recently

    But hey. I don't want fisticuffs. I still feel shite from Moderna and now we are looking at the near-certain extinction of human civilisation by next April. Not the best day
    I figured you'd be adding that. Need to leave space for others to contribute. Glad I got the laughing in, though, because it looks like I won't get the chance again. Even if (eg) wet market zoononis is eventually proved I won't be able to laugh at lab leak since it'll have the status of a respectable theory which turned out to be false. Which is no laughing matter.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 1,847
    Barely any change from last week, though...
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 950
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pretty bloody ropey after my Moderna booster jab. Seriously sore and frozen arm, general malaise and fatigue. Much worse than AZ, which caused a tiny bit of tenderness in the shoulder...

    That's a sign that you've probably previously had COVID.
    I am now near-certain that I did have Covid way back in January 2020, caught in Thailand. That's what Public Health England thought, that's why they sent me to be tested in UCLH, tho a SNAFU prevented any actual test

    It would also explain why I haven't caught Covid since, despite taking many risks in recent months: pubs, bars, restaurants, planes, the works
    "That's a sign that you've probably previously had COVID."

    Is it? First I've heard of that idea.
    Yes it has been punted before, by proper scientists, tho there are also other explanations, ofc
    Hey, my Chemistry degree still just about qualifies me as a "proper scientist" just not a practicing one.
    You never lose the scientific training.
    You know a junior asked me earlier this year whether or not I thought my degree was useful, I was going to say "not really" as always but actually after having a short think about it, I think it is pretty useful. Not the chemistry because fuck that noise, but the methodology of being a scientist and being open to any and all criticism of a theory, idea or model. I think a lot of our more public scientists, especially those in iSAGE, seem to have forgotten that a big part of science is having regular retrospectives on current theories vs real life data. It's something I've noticed myself doing over the course of this pandemic, go back on old ideas and make sure they are still relevant.

    Too many of the public scientific advisors aren't doing that exercise right now. Just today I read that some SAGE scientists are calling for the immediate implementation of plan b, despite there being not very much evidence to support that. They're stuck in a timeloop of a political agenda that lockdown measures are the only way to combat this. I'm sure when Germany, France and other major European countries go into a full lockdown in two weeks those same voices will condemn the government as irresponsible and callous for not doing the same here and in the process completely ignore the available real world data on infection rates, testing and hospitalisation.
    Agree - and it can have very real world consequences - take the AIDS pandemic - no one had to explain to Thatcher the horrors of exponential growth in an infection - something the current incumbent seemed to have difficulty getting his head around.

    Favourite observations on science "Many a grand beautiful theory has been destroyed by a single ugly fact" (yes, iSAGE, I'm looking at you - and these aren't "single" facts but whole battalions of them.)

    And of the French (which may be playing a part in the NI problems) - "it's all very well it working in practice - but does it work in theory?" I fear the EU are hung up on the theory of the integrity of the single market, ignoring the practical solutions and the ramifications of their absolutism.
    I mentioned before (I believe) a chap who accidentally disproved his own PhD right at the end, and presented the evidence at his viva.

    I would have given him his PhD and a Professorship to boot - *that* was True Science.
    I missed your earlier posting did he get his PhD?
    No - but they fudged it into a research grant of some kind to let him continue along the new line of enquiry.

    Which I thought was shit solution.
    Awwwww! That's ****ing outrageous. If his skills at research were good enough to build up a hypothesis, test it and write it up - and with the self-critical assessment to dump it - and to have a grant on top -then he had amply fulfilled the criteria for a PhD.
    That would depend a bit on the university in question, wouldn't it?
  • MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    On vaccine efficacy dilution, the more detailed version - one for @Leon:

    The reason COVID is so deadly is that it is almost perfectly adapted to the ACE-2 receptor and it enters the cell by using the spike protein which binds with very, very high efficiency to those ACE-2 sites on human cells. That's not something we normally see with this kind of virus, hence the "novel"Coronavirus name at the beginning, it was essentially a completely new type of coronavirus with ACE-2 binding. The reason all of our vaccines, AZ, Pfizer, Moderna and others, are still so highly effective is that they essentially replicate the same ACE-2 receptor sites but in neutralising antibodies which allows them to bind very efficiently to the virus in the bloodstream before they enter (m)any cells.

    If the virus mutates to an extent that antibodies can no longer bind to the spike protein with the same high efficiency as now, it means the spike protein will also not easily bind to the ACE-2 site present on human cells. If it can't easily bind to the ACE-2 site then it can't put it's genetic material into the cell and create virus replication factories out of those cells.

    One of the Delta subvariants seems to have a minor mutation to the spike protein that has decreased ACE-2 binding efficiency by a small amount and this seems to have actually made it less deadly, it's looking like the first example of the viral evolutionary path leading to a more transmissive but less deadly variation. Happily that subvariant still has very good binding efficiency to neutralising antibodies so there's nothing to worry about in regards to immunity.

    Anyway, that's the extent of my understanding on the subject, my speciality in chemistry was very much on the other side of it in creating novel types of semi-conductor!

    That's soothing and enlightening - thanks

    Twitter is actually being quite reasonable on this variant - lots of people agreeing with you re low transmissibility. But there are the usual suspects crying FIRE, and they have blue ticks. Irresponsible
    Again, those usual suspects are seizing what they think is an opportunity to get everyone in the world locked in their homes again. I don't understand their obsession with lockdowns. They were a necessary evil in 2020 and earlier part of this year, now they are, at least for the UK, completely unnecessary.
    It reminds me of Corbyn's support for reopening coal mines when he first became Labour leader.

    It was something that was right, or at least plausibly right, at a point in time. It was disputed by many of those on the "other side", particularly the hated Thatcher (or Trump with Covid). It becomes part of the identity of being on the "right side". The reasons why it was right at that point in time are forgotten, as less important than that the "other side" disagree, and of course they are always wrong. The circumstances change due to global warming concerns and technological change (or vaccines with Covid), but people know that opposing lockdown is a wrong thing only supported by bad people who would rather other people die (or closing coal mines could only be supported by people intent on destroying unions) and so they are locked into supporting something that no longer makes sense.

    Being flexible enough to adjust to changing circumstances or evidence is really difficult.
  • kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not saying Tom Baker wasn't a great role model but I feel his genitals had little to do with it...

    I never saw that episode.
    It was a wild night down the Colony Room and..

    Great pic of person and venue btw


    Apparently Jeff Bernard drank so much and for so long down there in an otherwise motionless position sat at the bar, arm movement only, glass to lips, lighter to cig, cig to lips, glass to lips, ash to floor, glass to lips, finger to barman for another, repeat ad infinitum, that he ended up with incredibly skinny legs and a massive bloated belly, such that even walking a few paces became difficult, drunk or not. Yet the whole scene somehow retains its seedy glamour. It really shouldn't but for me it does.
    I first started going to London with any regularity in the year of that pic, '83, never got to the Colony thought would have loved to have had just a glimpse of it, even if laughed out on my arse (I think I was tending to to a rockabilly thing at the time). Oddly I've grown to love old photos with smoking in them, must have been brainwashed by Hollywood and decades of subliminal stuff. The death thing probably helps..

    This one is even better.


  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,660


    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not saying Tom Baker wasn't a great role model but I feel his genitals had little to do with it...

    I never saw that episode.
    It was a wild night down the Colony Room and..

    Great pic of person and venue btw


    Apparently Jeff Bernard drank so much and for so long down there in an otherwise motionless position sat at the bar, arm movement only, glass to lips, lighter to cig, cig to lips, glass to lips, ash to floor, glass to lips, finger to barman for another, repeat ad infinitum, that he ended up with incredibly skinny legs and a massive bloated belly, such that even walking a few paces became difficult, drunk or not. Yet the whole scene somehow retains its seedy glamour. It really shouldn't but for me it does.
    I first started going to London with any regularity in the year of that pic, '83, never got to the Colony thought would have loved to have had just a glimpse of it, even if laughed out on my arse (I think I was tending to to a rockabilly thing at the time). Oddly I've grown to love old photos with smoking in them, must have been brainwashed by Hollywood and decades of subliminal stuff. The death thing probably helps..

    This one is even better.


    That's quite a famous pic, I believe. Think I've seen it on pieces about either the Soho scene or about one of those featured. As for smoking, unfortunately I'm keeping the flag flying ... 'what can you do' emoticon.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 15,748
    edited November 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another variant, another winter of lockdown, another spike in deaths, another vaccine, and on and on it goes, forever and ever until the death knell of a doomed and blacknened universe sounds across the empty void

    China might have killed the world


    *eyes gin*

    Friendly reminder that new variants are just that: new. We can’t know if they will be bad or just meh based on sequence alone, nor guess at their provenance. Lots of mutations ≠ very bad.

    This Thanksgiving, I remain grateful for genomic surveillance & safe, effective vaccines.


    https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/1463874468065861639?s=20
    This thread beneath it is less cheerful. I see Pagel is in there. I fear this is cause for concern

    "Bleak SGTF data from SA (proxy for B.1.1.529) in briefing from
    @Tuliodna
    and
    @rjlessells
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=Vh4XMueP1zQ"

    https://twitter.com/theosanderson/status/1463850227887230978?s=20

    Look at that fucking spike. My God

    However this thread suggests the Nu Variant can be detected by PCR tests. So if it is widespread in Europe (inc UK) surely we would have seen it?

    We do need to close the border with SA, today. What harm can it do - as a precaution? - and it might do serious good
    Seems like that fucking spike is somebody bollocksing up the data. The correct data is still bad though.
    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1463963512565387275
This discussion has been closed.