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The Lib-Lab pact that isn’t but could still hurt the Tories – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited November 10 in General
imageThe Lib-Lab pact that isn’t but could still hurt the Tories – politicalbetting.com

Veteran coverer of Westminster by-elections, Michael Crick, has an interesting piece out on Mail+ observing the remarkable degree of collaboration that seems to be going on between LAB and the LDs over by-elections.

Read the full story here

«134

Comments

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,574
    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,704
    edited November 10

    Housing.

    The problem is our very weird system which effectively provides so much risk in the planning process that only very large house builders have enough capital to operate.

    The result is generally monopoly style housing provision: bog-standard, graceless, and unpopular with the broader population who resent the slow encroachment onto neighbouring fields.

    Every county should have a spatial development *plan* which designates where new housing is to go, and the overall design spec or pattern which is to be allowed.

    Any land newly designated for housing would be subject to a planning gain tax, the funds thereby hypothecated to infrastructure development.

    Within those constraints, anything goes.

    Among other things, this would allow for greater self-build which is miniscule in the U.K.

    Some of those suggestions IIRC were part of the government's proposals that Jenrick got sacked for not being able to sell to the Tory Shires well enough, and subsequently dropped until Gove can decide which tiny part of them to revive.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,142
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861
    On Wokeness


    The tide might, perhaps, be turning


    A NYTimes article arguing against Wokeness

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/09/opinion/social-justice-america.html?smid=tw-share

    Now, the fact the NYT runs this is, in itself, quite notable. But even more interesting is the comment section (and they've had nearly 2000 comments). The NYT has selected several comments as particularly helpful - they are all quite Woke. But they aren't the most popular comments by any means. Many of the "readers' picks" of comments are seriously anti-Woke

    If the NYT readership is turning against this egregious and pernicious shit, then maybe there is hope for America, and thusly the West
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,510
    kle4 said:

    Housing.

    The problem is our very weird system which effectively provides so much risk in the planning process that only very large house builders have enough capital to operate.

    The result is generally monopoly style housing provision: bog-standard, graceless, and unpopular with the broader population who resent the slow encroachment onto neighbouring fields.

    Every county should have a spatial development *plan* which designates where new housing is to go, and the overall design spec or pattern which is to be allowed.

    Any land newly designated for housing would be subject to a planning gain tax, the funds thereby hypothecated to infrastructure development.

    Within those constraints, anything goes.

    Among other things, this would allow for greater self-build which is miniscule in the U.K.

    Some of those suggestions IIRC were part of the government's proposals that Jenrick got sacked for not being able to sell to the Tory Shires well enough, and subsequently dropped until Gove can decide which tiny part of them to revive.
    Yes, to some extent, although I don’t believe it adequately flipped the onus toward “why reject” instead of “why approve”.
    .
    And then there were problems with the “mutant algorithm” which dictated significant new building targets across leafy shires.

    This is a densely populated, but not densely *built* country, and there is some evidence that it hampers productivity.

    Over the top of the planning system, the govt needs to incentivise denser, higher rise in London and the South East.

    I have posted several times that I live in Zone 1 borders and it is very mostly two or three story Victorian terraces. And to the east, there is a vast waste of former dock and warehouse lands, all the way to the Southend one bank and the Isle of Grain on another.

    We don’t need to concrete over Amersham, nor should we - it and places like it are what make England special.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,574
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Jeez. You just wouldn't believe how much that doesn't work.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,510
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    I think we should bring back “Rayshist”, which is how NZers in my youth pronounced racist, I think because it all of a sudden superseded racialist.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,402
    lol Why else would you have an AR 15 if not for protection. What a bizarre line of questioning.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,257
    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    Good evening.

    I am very happy for nature to take its course. Red in tooth and claw, and all that.

    What I object to is humankind fecking up the while ecological balance.

    Providing dens and food for foxes to breed so that humans can then slaughter them for some kind of sick pleasure is part of that.

    Look, we are diametrically opposed on this. I'm sure there are other issues on which we agree.

    If we ever meet at a PB social, I won't be so harsh as to be so insulting. On reflection, I should not have been so direct in my earlier post.


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,503
    I don't believe the LibDems have enough activists to target two seats simultaneously.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,260
    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    I have cycled for decades and at least 300,000 miles so I know all the local roads. Some years ago I was on a training ride along a country lane pretty well silently on my hand made Holdsworth and caught up with a fox that was loping on the edge of the road evading a fox hunt. He perceived my presence and darted into a gap in the hedge. If foxes can be said to grimace so he did. When I came to an intersection with another small road a car load of folk asked me which way to the hunt. I'm afraid I told them wrongly. If any one of them is a Pber I do apologize.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,176
    Leon said:

    On Wokeness


    The tide might, perhaps, be turning


    A NYTimes article arguing against Wokeness

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/09/opinion/social-justice-america.html?smid=tw-share

    Now, the fact the NYT runs this is, in itself, quite notable. But even more interesting is the comment section (and they've had nearly 2000 comments). The NYT has selected several comments as particularly helpful - they are all quite Woke. But they aren't the most popular comments by any means. Many of the "readers' picks" of comments are seriously anti-Woke

    If the NYT readership is turning against this egregious and pernicious shit, then maybe there is hope for America, and thusly the West

    Crushed between the NYT and Putin, Woke is DEAD baby.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519
    edited November 10
    On topic.

    I agree, the way ahead is tacit electoral pacts rather than explicit ones. People don't like not being given the option of their favourite party and do generally get tactical voting, at least in target seats.

    It was quite a big part of the 1997 landslide, which wasn't just a New Labour landslide, but a Lib Dem one too.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,142
    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Jeez. You just wouldn't believe how much that doesn't work.
    You're right. It doesn't, does it? People who think like that are cretins.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,503
    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Jeez. You just wouldn't believe how much that doesn't work.
    Why don't you just Fuck Off and join the Liberal Democrats.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,142

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    I think we should bring back “Rayshist”, which is how NZers in my youth pronounced racist, I think because it all of a sudden superseded racialist.
    We don't talk about New Zealand today :wink:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,503
    Pulpstar said:

    lol Why else would you have an AR 15 if not for protection. What a bizarre line of questioning.

    Why would you carry an AR15 across state lines?
  • isamisam Posts: 38,441
    Amazing to see yesterday how many people there are on here called tim
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 859
    rcs1000 said:

    I don't believe the LibDems have enough activists to target two seats simultaneously.

    That might also be true of Labour and the Tories rely a lot on paid deliveries these days too.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,402
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    lol Why else would you have an AR 15 if not for protection. What a bizarre line of questioning.

    Why would you carry an AR15 across state lines?
    Well that's a class A misdemeanour.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,257
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    lol Why else would you have an AR 15 if not for protection. What a bizarre line of questioning.

    Why would you carry an AR15 across state lines?
    To get to the other side?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
  • It was these form of understandings with the Brexit Party that helped the Conservatives do so well in 2019.

    If this is correct, the opposition parties might finally be learning something from the masters of realpolitik.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519
    rcs1000 said:

    I don't believe the LibDems have enough activists to target two seats simultaneously.

    Quite possible when so far apart geographically.

    Though I think both will be Tory holds, not that the odds are particularly attractive.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,257
    isam said:

    Amazing to see yesterday how many people there are on here called tim

    Like a Saturday afternoon at Parkhead.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,176
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    lol Why else would you have an AR 15 if not for protection. What a bizarre line of questioning.

    Why would you carry an AR15 across state lines?
    To have sexual relations with that purdy little thang.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,142
    Toms said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    I have cycled for decades and at least 300,000 miles so I know all the local roads. Some years ago I was on a training ride along a country lane pretty well silently on my hand made Holdsworth and caught up with a fox that was loping on the edge of the road evading a fox hunt. He perceived my presence and darted into a gap in the hedge. If foxes can be said to grimace so he did. When I came to an intersection with another small road a car load of folk asked me which way to the hunt. I'm afraid I told them wrongly. If any one of them is a Pber I do apologize.
    I think fox-hunting is fine, as long as the fox signs a permission form beforehand. If you can't find one who'll sign, just have one of the goofy fuckers on horseback play the fox that week. Being torn open by hounds is ok if you give consent first.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,574

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    Good evening.

    I am very happy for nature to take its course. Red in tooth and claw, and all that.

    What I object to is humankind fecking up the while ecological balance.

    Providing dens and food for foxes to breed so that humans can then slaughter them for some kind of sick pleasure is part of that.

    Look, we are diametrically opposed on this. I'm sure there are other issues on which we agree.

    If we ever meet at a PB social, I won't be so harsh as to be so insulting. On reflection, I should not have been so direct in my earlier post.


    Oh fuck, I was so hoping to get into a fight with you.

    Just for the record: the main effect of the hunting ban from the fox perspective has been an increase in the dominance of commercial pheasant shooting. People who hunt foxes are happy with a day in which two foxes are killed, or one, or none at all. The best day hunting I have ever had involved one fox being run to ground, and left there.

    Pheasant shooters judge the success of the day by the number of birds killed, generally 100-200, and birds are not notably less animate/intelligent/sensitive to pain than mammals.

    To protect their investment in purpose-bred pheasants, pheasant shoots pay people to kill foxes with rifles and night vision tech. It is not unusual to kill 20 odd foxes in a night with these methods.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,142
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,476
    edited November 10
    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I don't believe the LibDems have enough activists to target two seats simultaneously.

    That might also be true of Labour and the Tories rely a lot on paid deliveries these days too.
    There’s also geography, however. There are tons of LibDem activists who could make Bexley, for whom NS would be difficult. Most obviously all those large local parties in SW London. The problems with this are both that the same is true for Labour in spades, and that Bexley is very infertile ground for the LDs. Labour will be able to swamp it with activists, outgunning the Tories on the ground massively, and the LDs might as well leave them to it and organise minibuses and the like to try and get people into NS.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,465
    Interesting maths from @ITVnewspolitics revealing the register of interests (ie extra earnings) totals £9.2million with the breakdown by party rather stark https://www.itv.com/news/2021-11-10/revealed-the-92-million-mps-earn-from-jobs-outside-of-parliament https://twitter.com/janinegibson/status/1458539298794336256/photo/1
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 6,352
    edited November 10
    FPT - re Dacre, OFCOM, BBC funding:

    Why on earth is the Govt wasting time mucking around trying to appoint Dacre when what they should be doing is focussing on implementing a tough BBC Licence Fee settlement.

    Whereas all the signs are that they are going to cave in to the BBC, just like they are going to cave in on C4 privatisation.

    It's the same story in both cases - they start out threatening to be tough - then they face strong lobbying - then they lose their nerve and cave in.

    The starting point for the BBC is that back in 2015 a licence fee settlement was done on the basis that the BBC would fund all over 75s licence fees. Now they are actually charging all over 75s - except those on pension credit.

    Result: BBC income is £450m per year higher than it otherwise would be.

    So with approx 23.5 million licences now in force the licence fee could actually be cut by £19 per year just to get back to where the BBC should be.

    Instead we have leaks that the Govt is likely to freeze the fee for one or two years at the current level before then reverting back to CPI increases. And given the direction of travel it's almost certain it'll just end up with a one year freeze then CPI.

    Boris needs to toughen up, face people down and carry things through. Rather than starting off tough, getting a few tabloid headlines and then caving in when the final decision is actually made.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,707
    I have not been following the Rittenhouse case, but after reading the NPR (not exactly a bastion of right-wing, gun-toting, Trumpism), I'd be gobsmacked if he's found guilty.

    https://www.npr.org/2021/11/10/1054313132/kyle-rittenhouse-testimony-kenosha
  • It was these form of understandings with the Brexit Party that helped the Conservatives do so well in 2019.

    If this is correct, the opposition parties might finally be learning something from the masters of realpolitik.

    As @Foxy noted, Labour and the Lib Dems being realistic about their constituency chances isn't a new thing, and the division of Red possibles and Yellow possibles is hardly a state secret.

    One of the things that turned 2019 into a rout was how unrealistic the anti-BoJo politics was. Partly in calling the election in the first place, but also the degree to which Lab and Lib tore lumps out of each other, rather than the actual enemy.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,574
    Farooq said:

    Toms said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    I have cycled for decades and at least 300,000 miles so I know all the local roads. Some years ago I was on a training ride along a country lane pretty well silently on my hand made Holdsworth and caught up with a fox that was loping on the edge of the road evading a fox hunt. He perceived my presence and darted into a gap in the hedge. If foxes can be said to grimace so he did. When I came to an intersection with another small road a car load of folk asked me which way to the hunt. I'm afraid I told them wrongly. If any one of them is a Pber I do apologize.
    I think fox-hunting is fine, as long as the fox signs a permission form beforehand. If you can't find one who'll sign, just have one of the goofy fuckers on horseback play the fox that week. Being torn open by hounds is ok if you give consent first.
    Either:

    you know exactly how a hound kills a fox

    you know exactly how foxes die when they are not killed by hounds

    you know exactly what happens in an abattoir to the pigs, lambs and bullocks you are happy to consume

    OR

    you thought you'd indulge in a bit of disneyfied ill-informed class-based prejudice

    Which can it possibly be?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,768
    edited November 10

    It was these form of understandings with the Brexit Party that helped the Conservatives do so well in 2019.

    If this is correct, the opposition parties might finally be learning something from the masters of realpolitik.

    As @Foxy noted, Labour and the Lib Dems being realistic about their constituency chances isn't a new thing, and the division of Red possibles and Yellow possibles is hardly a state secret.

    One of the things that turned 2019 into a rout was how unrealistic the anti-BoJo politics was. Partly in calling the election in the first place, but also the degree to which Lab and Lib tore lumps out of each other, rather than the actual enemy.
    Indeed, I would say the official mood music between Labour and the Liberal Democrats in 2019 was catastrophic. Both Corbyn and Swinson genuinely seemed to think they could win it entirely on their own, with no collaboration. Swinson was drunk on a recent pro-European swing, and Corbyn thought it was going to be 2017 again.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,142
    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Toms said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    I have cycled for decades and at least 300,000 miles so I know all the local roads. Some years ago I was on a training ride along a country lane pretty well silently on my hand made Holdsworth and caught up with a fox that was loping on the edge of the road evading a fox hunt. He perceived my presence and darted into a gap in the hedge. If foxes can be said to grimace so he did. When I came to an intersection with another small road a car load of folk asked me which way to the hunt. I'm afraid I told them wrongly. If any one of them is a Pber I do apologize.
    I think fox-hunting is fine, as long as the fox signs a permission form beforehand. If you can't find one who'll sign, just have one of the goofy fuckers on horseback play the fox that week. Being torn open by hounds is ok if you give consent first.
    Either:

    you know exactly how a hound kills a fox

    you know exactly how foxes die when they are not killed by hounds

    you know exactly what happens in an abattoir to the pigs, lambs and bullocks you are happy to consume

    OR

    you thought you'd indulge in a bit of disneyfied ill-informed class-based prejudice

    Which can it possibly be?
    What does fox taste like?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,704
    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting maths from @ITVnewspolitics revealing the register of interests (ie extra earnings) totals £9.2million with the breakdown by party rather stark https://www.itv.com/news/2021-11-10/revealed-the-92-million-mps-earn-from-jobs-outside-of-parliament https://twitter.com/janinegibson/status/1458539298794336256/photo/1

    I love that the only MP pushing Cox close on outside earnings is Theresa May, and its from speaking engagements of all things. It's been noted before, but she's not really a dynamic or entertaining speaker, and it's practically reputable to rake in mega bucks to speak for half an hour to a bunch of investment bankers about some random topic.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,376
    It is no surprise Labour are building alliances with the LDs.

    If Starmer does get in in 2023/24 it will almost certainly need LD support as well, much as Cameron needed LD support for a majority in 2010.

    Even Labour and SNP support alone is unlikely to be enough, on current polls getting to about 300-310 seats combined max
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,833
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    Good evening.

    I am very happy for nature to take its course. Red in tooth and claw, and all that.

    What I object to is humankind fecking up the while ecological balance.

    Providing dens and food for foxes to breed so that humans can then slaughter them for some kind of sick pleasure is part of that.

    Look, we are diametrically opposed on this. I'm sure there are other issues on which we agree.

    If we ever meet at a PB social, I won't be so harsh as to be so insulting. On reflection, I should not have been so direct in my earlier post.


    Oh fuck, I was so hoping to get into a fight with you.

    Just for the record: the main effect of the hunting ban from the fox perspective has been an increase in the dominance of commercial pheasant shooting. People who hunt foxes are happy with a day in which two foxes are killed, or one, or none at all. The best day hunting I have ever had involved one fox being run to ground, and left there.

    Pheasant shooters judge the success of the day by the number of birds killed, generally 100-200, and birds are not notably less animate/intelligent/sensitive to pain than mammals.

    To protect their investment in purpose-bred pheasants, pheasant shoots pay people to kill foxes with rifles and night vision tech. It is not unusual to kill 20 odd foxes in a night with these methods.
    Commercial shoots are horrible though.

    A few drives and half a dozen birds each makes for a lovely day out
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,574
    Farooq said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Toms said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    I have cycled for decades and at least 300,000 miles so I know all the local roads. Some years ago I was on a training ride along a country lane pretty well silently on my hand made Holdsworth and caught up with a fox that was loping on the edge of the road evading a fox hunt. He perceived my presence and darted into a gap in the hedge. If foxes can be said to grimace so he did. When I came to an intersection with another small road a car load of folk asked me which way to the hunt. I'm afraid I told them wrongly. If any one of them is a Pber I do apologize.
    I think fox-hunting is fine, as long as the fox signs a permission form beforehand. If you can't find one who'll sign, just have one of the goofy fuckers on horseback play the fox that week. Being torn open by hounds is ok if you give consent first.
    Either:

    you know exactly how a hound kills a fox

    you know exactly how foxes die when they are not killed by hounds

    you know exactly what happens in an abattoir to the pigs, lambs and bullocks you are happy to consume

    OR

    you thought you'd indulge in a bit of disneyfied ill-informed class-based prejudice

    Which can it possibly be?
    What does fox taste like?
    Like victory
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,142
    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Toms said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    I have cycled for decades and at least 300,000 miles so I know all the local roads. Some years ago I was on a training ride along a country lane pretty well silently on my hand made Holdsworth and caught up with a fox that was loping on the edge of the road evading a fox hunt. He perceived my presence and darted into a gap in the hedge. If foxes can be said to grimace so he did. When I came to an intersection with another small road a car load of folk asked me which way to the hunt. I'm afraid I told them wrongly. If any one of them is a Pber I do apologize.
    I think fox-hunting is fine, as long as the fox signs a permission form beforehand. If you can't find one who'll sign, just have one of the goofy fuckers on horseback play the fox that week. Being torn open by hounds is ok if you give consent first.
    Either:

    you know exactly how a hound kills a fox

    you know exactly how foxes die when they are not killed by hounds

    you know exactly what happens in an abattoir to the pigs, lambs and bullocks you are happy to consume

    OR

    you thought you'd indulge in a bit of disneyfied ill-informed class-based prejudice

    Which can it possibly be?
    What does fox taste like?
    Like victory
    Nothing so sweet as defeating an enemy that has come so close to killing you. You are Spartacus!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,402
    edited November 10
    TimT said:

    I have not been following the Rittenhouse case, but after reading the NPR (not exactly a bastion of right-wing, gun-toting, Trumpism), I'd be gobsmacked if he's found guilty.

    https://www.npr.org/2021/11/10/1054313132/kyle-rittenhouse-testimony-kenosha

    No idea why the prosecutor was pursuing needing the pinch and zoom function just then, why not just ask to show the video on a massive screen ?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,574
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting maths from @ITVnewspolitics revealing the register of interests (ie extra earnings) totals £9.2million with the breakdown by party rather stark https://www.itv.com/news/2021-11-10/revealed-the-92-million-mps-earn-from-jobs-outside-of-parliament https://twitter.com/janinegibson/status/1458539298794336256/photo/1

    I love that the only MP pushing Cox close on outside earnings is Theresa May, and its from speaking engagements of all things. It's been noted before, but she's not really a dynamic or entertaining speaker, and it's practically reputable to rake in mega bucks to speak for half an hour to a bunch of investment bankers about some random topic.
    "she's not really a dynamic or entertaining speaker" is like saying Liechtenstein is not really a superpower.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,768
    edited November 10
    I find all non-essential and entertainment-led hunting pretty grim, speaking for myself. I've also met many country people over the years with strong views on both sides.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,142
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    That's all very cis
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,449
    kle4 said:

    Housing.

    The problem is our very weird system which effectively provides so much risk in the planning process that only very large house builders have enough capital to operate.

    The result is generally monopoly style housing provision: bog-standard, graceless, and unpopular with the broader population who resent the slow encroachment onto neighbouring fields.

    Every county should have a spatial development *plan* which designates where new housing is to go, and the overall design spec or pattern which is to be allowed.

    Any land newly designated for housing would be subject to a planning gain tax, the funds thereby hypothecated to infrastructure development.

    Within those constraints, anything goes.

    Among other things, this would allow for greater self-build which is miniscule in the U.K.

    Some of those suggestions IIRC were part of the government's proposals that Jenrick got sacked for not being able to sell to the Tory Shires well enough, and subsequently dropped until Gove can decide which tiny part of them to revive.
    Bit puzzled by this. We have actual plans in Scottish local government, whcih is required to produce them regularly. I can see on the map for my area where the new houses and roads etc are planned to go which central gmt allocates to the different authorities, and there is planning gain payment (albeit not formal tax). Don't they do it down south?

    This might explain the astounding differences in political attotudes on such matters etc that we were discussing a few weeks ago.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,465
    Three MPs have been accused by the Ben Wallace of “disrespecting” the armed forces after getting drunk on a flight to visit troops in Gibraltar

    One Labour MP was said to have been so “incapacitated through drink” that she had to be placed in a wheelchair https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dressing-down-for-mps-who-got-drunk-on-flight-to-visit-troops-xzkf98fmr?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636578420

    The MP, whom The Times is not naming, was taken to her hotel and was unable to attend a “welcome event” put on for the MPs by the military

    It is understood that she was returning to the UK today — two days early — after speaking to Labour whips

    The report said that the female MP was with two SNP MPs, David Linden and Drew Hendry, who were “difficult” with customs and testing staff at the airport on Tuesday night
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,142

    I find all non-essential and entertainment-led hunting fairly grim, speaking for myself.

    You're probably also speaking for the hunted too. As best we can tell.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,476

    It was these form of understandings with the Brexit Party that helped the Conservatives do so well in 2019.

    If this is correct, the opposition parties might finally be learning something from the masters of realpolitik.

    As @Foxy noted, Labour and the Lib Dems being realistic about their constituency chances isn't a new thing, and the division of Red possibles and Yellow possibles is hardly a state secret.

    One of the things that turned 2019 into a rout was how unrealistic the anti-BoJo politics was. Partly in calling the election in the first place, but also the degree to which Lab and Lib tore lumps out of each other, rather than the actual enemy.
    Indeed, I would say the official mood music between Labour and the Liberal Democrats in 2019 was catastrophic. Both Corbyn and Swinson genuinely seemed to think they could win it entirely on their own, with no collaboration. Swinson was drunk on a recent pro-European swing, and Corbyn thought it was going to be 2017 again.
    And the various defections from Labour created a poisonous mood among its activists, for example Labour bussing people into Finchley on polling day to stop Berger beating the Tory.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Three MPs have been accused by the Ben Wallace of “disrespecting” the armed forces after getting drunk on a flight to visit troops in Gibraltar

    One Labour MP was said to have been so “incapacitated through drink” that she had to be placed in a wheelchair https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dressing-down-for-mps-who-got-drunk-on-flight-to-visit-troops-xzkf98fmr?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636578420

    The MP, whom The Times is not naming, was taken to her hotel and was unable to attend a “welcome event” put on for the MPs by the military

    It is understood that she was returning to the UK today — two days early — after speaking to Labour whips

    The report said that the female MP was with two SNP MPs, David Linden and Drew Hendry, who were “difficult” with customs and testing staff at the airport on Tuesday night

    I was messaged earlier that the Labour MP is Charlotte Nichols.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,574
    Farooq said:

    I find all non-essential and entertainment-led hunting fairly grim, speaking for myself.

    You're probably also speaking for the hunted too. As best we can tell.
    Well, yes, but life is a shit sandwich for most non-human mammals. Which would you prefer, to be taken out at the rate of 20 per night with rifles, or 2 a week with hounds? Cos those are the options.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,707

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    Good evening.

    I am very happy for nature to take its course. Red in tooth and claw, and all that.

    What I object to is humankind fecking up the while ecological balance.

    Providing dens and food for foxes to breed so that humans can then slaughter them for some kind of sick pleasure is part of that.

    Look, we are diametrically opposed on this. I'm sure there are other issues on which we agree.

    If we ever meet at a PB social, I won't be so harsh as to be so insulting. On reflection, I should not have been so direct in my earlier post.


    The whole 'wild' British countryside represents an ecology fecked up by humans. There's not been anything resembling wilderness in Britain in centuries.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519

    I find all non-essential and entertainment-led hunting pretty grim, speaking for myself. I've also met many country people over the years with strong views on both sides.

    Yes, I agree. Gamekeepers have a lot to answer for in killing protected raptors too.

    It's a dead argument, like banning gay marriage, to bring back fox hunting and hare coursing. Times have moved on.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    That's all very cis
    lol, no. Cis doesn't cut it, no one knows what it means, no one is really sure how to pronounce it, and when you dig down, it is mad. And 3 letters

    For a measure of how deep Woke cuts, here's a Woke person trying to claim its use is intrinsically..... racist. Yes.

    "If you’re not black and started using “woke” pejoratively sometime post-2018 or so (or worse, don’t know anything about the earlier iteration of the term), I think it’s fair to consider it a racial slur."

    https://twitter.com/byjoelanderson/status/1457512199488901122?s=20

    The woke are trying to get "Woke" cancelled
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,574
    TimT said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    Good evening.

    I am very happy for nature to take its course. Red in tooth and claw, and all that.

    What I object to is humankind fecking up the while ecological balance.

    Providing dens and food for foxes to breed so that humans can then slaughter them for some kind of sick pleasure is part of that.

    Look, we are diametrically opposed on this. I'm sure there are other issues on which we agree.

    If we ever meet at a PB social, I won't be so harsh as to be so insulting. On reflection, I should not have been so direct in my earlier post.


    The whole 'wild' British countryside represents an ecology fecked up by humans. There's not been anything resembling wilderness in Britain in centuries.
    millennia
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519
    edited November 10
    Scott_xP said:

    Three MPs have been accused by the Ben Wallace of “disrespecting” the armed forces after getting drunk on a flight to visit troops in Gibraltar

    One Labour MP was said to have been so “incapacitated through drink” that she had to be placed in a wheelchair https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dressing-down-for-mps-who-got-drunk-on-flight-to-visit-troops-xzkf98fmr?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636578420

    The MP, whom The Times is not naming, was taken to her hotel and was unable to attend a “welcome event” put on for the MPs by the military

    It is understood that she was returning to the UK today — two days early — after speaking to Labour whips

    The report said that the female MP was with two SNP MPs, David Linden and Drew Hendry, who were “difficult” with customs and testing staff at the airport on Tuesday night

    Surely being pissed out of their heads on a freebie is just the sort of thing that squaddies and Ruperts alike would do if they got the chance.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,406
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    The fact that you had to accompany it with two genuine four letter words and insults suggests that it lacks something on its own.
    Also, it's only an insult to those who think it's a bad thing. If you called me a "woke c*nt" I wouldn't be especially insulted, as a lover of both wokeness and c*nts.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 14,923
    Gordon Brown. My new hero. That's how decent public servants should behave
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,704
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Housing.

    The problem is our very weird system which effectively provides so much risk in the planning process that only very large house builders have enough capital to operate.

    The result is generally monopoly style housing provision: bog-standard, graceless, and unpopular with the broader population who resent the slow encroachment onto neighbouring fields.

    Every county should have a spatial development *plan* which designates where new housing is to go, and the overall design spec or pattern which is to be allowed.

    Any land newly designated for housing would be subject to a planning gain tax, the funds thereby hypothecated to infrastructure development.

    Within those constraints, anything goes.

    Among other things, this would allow for greater self-build which is miniscule in the U.K.

    Some of those suggestions IIRC were part of the government's proposals that Jenrick got sacked for not being able to sell to the Tory Shires well enough, and subsequently dropped until Gove can decide which tiny part of them to revive.
    Bit puzzled by this. We have actual plans in Scottish local government, whcih is required to produce them regularly. I can see on the map for my area where the new houses and roads etc are planned to go which central gmt allocates to the different authorities, and there is planning gain payment (albeit not formal tax). Don't they do it down south?

    This might explain the astounding differences in political attotudes on such matters etc that we were discussing a few weeks ago.
    There are plans - long, complex and to be updated regularly, to deliver housing numbers the government estimates. If I understood it (and I wasn't looking at it in depth in fairness) the government plans were about tilting the balance more toward approval with new types of spatial plans, possibly zonal, which would be simpler to produce and update frequently, and be less proscriptive within the specified areas on the precise details. I think some of the early papers even floated essentially taking away the ability of local councils to say no, once they had set the overaching plans, but that was dead in the water long before firm proposals came forward as the Shires would hit the roof.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,142
    Scott_xP said:

    Three MPs have been accused by the Ben Wallace of “disrespecting” the armed forces after getting drunk on a flight to visit troops in Gibraltar

    One Labour MP was said to have been so “incapacitated through drink” that she had to be placed in a wheelchair https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dressing-down-for-mps-who-got-drunk-on-flight-to-visit-troops-xzkf98fmr?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636578420

    The MP, whom The Times is not naming, was taken to her hotel and was unable to attend a “welcome event” put on for the MPs by the military

    It is understood that she was returning to the UK today — two days early — after speaking to Labour whips

    The report said that the female MP was with two SNP MPs, David Linden and Drew Hendry, who were “difficult” with customs and testing staff at the airport on Tuesday night

    Hahaha, excellent stuff! There's a pub near me that's fairly often busy with service folk.
    From the state some of them get into, being sat up in a wheelchair at the end of a session is a bit of a tame night.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,574

    Scott_xP said:

    Three MPs have been accused by the Ben Wallace of “disrespecting” the armed forces after getting drunk on a flight to visit troops in Gibraltar

    One Labour MP was said to have been so “incapacitated through drink” that she had to be placed in a wheelchair https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dressing-down-for-mps-who-got-drunk-on-flight-to-visit-troops-xzkf98fmr?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636578420

    The MP, whom The Times is not naming, was taken to her hotel and was unable to attend a “welcome event” put on for the MPs by the military

    It is understood that she was returning to the UK today — two days early — after speaking to Labour whips

    The report said that the female MP was with two SNP MPs, David Linden and Drew Hendry, who were “difficult” with customs and testing staff at the airport on Tuesday night

    I was messaged earlier that the Labour MP is Charlotte Nichols.
    Fuck me. They must be sure of their ground, calling an MP drunk in print, if they weren't, is fucking expensive.

    Plus, we've all been that drunk in university days, but most people have learned to control/moderate/disguise it by their mid twenties.

    Not really a good week for those who govern us, on any front.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 615
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Housing.

    The problem is our very weird system which effectively provides so much risk in the planning process that only very large house builders have enough capital to operate.

    The result is generally monopoly style housing provision: bog-standard, graceless, and unpopular with the broader population who resent the slow encroachment onto neighbouring fields.

    Every county should have a spatial development *plan* which designates where new housing is to go, and the overall design spec or pattern which is to be allowed.

    Any land newly designated for housing would be subject to a planning gain tax, the funds thereby hypothecated to infrastructure development.

    Within those constraints, anything goes.

    Among other things, this would allow for greater self-build which is miniscule in the U.K.

    Some of those suggestions IIRC were part of the government's proposals that Jenrick got sacked for not being able to sell to the Tory Shires well enough, and subsequently dropped until Gove can decide which tiny part of them to revive.
    Bit puzzled by this. We have actual plans in Scottish local government, whcih is required to produce them regularly. I can see on the map for my area where the new houses and roads etc are planned to go which central gmt allocates to the different authorities, and there is planning gain payment (albeit not formal tax). Don't they do it down south?

    This might explain the astounding differences in political attotudes on such matters etc that we were discussing a few weeks ago.
    There absolutely are local plans, with money assigned to various projects as & when it comes in, with planning gain & all that.

    I’m not sure exactly what the barrier is to a more varied housing infrastructure, but difficult planning departments making developers lives hell is probably a significant issue. Extend that hell to individual house-building projects & the overheads of getting a project through planning become overwhelming for smaller developers.

    What I do think would help would be council planning cttees taking a more active role in ”pre-approving” plans for a portion of sites within their local plan, on a “we do enough of the legal prep-work so that if you rock up with something within scope, you’ll know that you’ll get permission” basis. But it looks like unless we force councils to build or perish, that isn’t going to happen.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,837
    Fox hunting is weird
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    That's all very cis
    lol, no. Cis doesn't cut it, no one knows what it means, no one is really sure how to pronounce it, and when you dig down, it is mad. And 3 letters

    For a measure of how deep Woke cuts, here's a Woke person trying to claim its use is intrinsically..... racist. Yes.

    "If you’re not black and started using “woke” pejoratively sometime post-2018 or so (or worse, don’t know anything about the earlier iteration of the term), I think it’s fair to consider it a racial slur."

    https://twitter.com/byjoelanderson/status/1457512199488901122?s=20

    The woke are trying to get "Woke" cancelled
    I don't think that it is insulting as you make out. I am quite unbothered being described as woke, as being awake to institutional prejudice in society seems to me to be a good thing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,704
    TimT said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    Good evening.

    I am very happy for nature to take its course. Red in tooth and claw, and all that.

    What I object to is humankind fecking up the while ecological balance.

    Providing dens and food for foxes to breed so that humans can then slaughter them for some kind of sick pleasure is part of that.

    Look, we are diametrically opposed on this. I'm sure there are other issues on which we agree.

    If we ever meet at a PB social, I won't be so harsh as to be so insulting. On reflection, I should not have been so direct in my earlier post.


    The whole 'wild' British countryside represents an ecology fecked up by humans. There's not been anything resembling wilderness in Britain in centuries.
    Bring back the swampy forests!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,833

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    The fact that you had to accompany it with two genuine four letter words and insults suggests that it lacks something on its own.
    Also, it's only an insult to those who think it's a bad thing. If you called me a "woke c*nt" I wouldn't be especially insulted, as a lover of both wokeness and c*nts.
    Nah, you’re not a c*nt

    You lack the depth and warmth.

    (Is that my coat?)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,403
    Blimey.
    A.wheelchair? To Gibraltar?
    Must have been some epic pre-loading gone on there.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,833
    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Three MPs have been accused by the Ben Wallace of “disrespecting” the armed forces after getting drunk on a flight to visit troops in Gibraltar

    One Labour MP was said to have been so “incapacitated through drink” that she had to be placed in a wheelchair https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dressing-down-for-mps-who-got-drunk-on-flight-to-visit-troops-xzkf98fmr?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636578420

    The MP, whom The Times is not naming, was taken to her hotel and was unable to attend a “welcome event” put on for the MPs by the military

    It is understood that she was returning to the UK today — two days early — after speaking to Labour whips

    The report said that the female MP was with two SNP MPs, David Linden and Drew Hendry, who were “difficult” with customs and testing staff at the airport on Tuesday night

    I was messaged earlier that the Labour MP is Charlotte Nichols.
    Fuck me. They must be sure of their ground, calling an MP drunk in print, if they weren't, is fucking expensive.

    Plus, we've all been that drunk in university days, but most people have learned to control/moderate/disguise it by their mid twenties.

    Not really a good week for those who govern us, on any front.
    We’ll probably discover (a few minutes after she does) that she is a nervous flyer and took a pill to help her sleep. Before getting bladdered on a modest number of drinks
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,786
    edited November 10
    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Three MPs have been accused by the Ben Wallace of “disrespecting” the armed forces after getting drunk on a flight to visit troops in Gibraltar

    One Labour MP was said to have been so “incapacitated through drink” that she had to be placed in a wheelchair https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dressing-down-for-mps-who-got-drunk-on-flight-to-visit-troops-xzkf98fmr?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636578420

    The MP, whom The Times is not naming, was taken to her hotel and was unable to attend a “welcome event” put on for the MPs by the military

    It is understood that she was returning to the UK today — two days early — after speaking to Labour whips

    The report said that the female MP was with two SNP MPs, David Linden and Drew Hendry, who were “difficult” with customs and testing staff at the airport on Tuesday night

    I was messaged earlier that the Labour MP is Charlotte Nichols.
    Fuck me. They must be sure of their ground, calling an MP drunk in print, if they weren't, is fucking expensive.

    Plus, we've all been that drunk in university days, but most people have learned to control/moderate/disguise it by their mid twenties.

    Not really a good week for those who govern us, on any front.
    I was never drunk at university in fact I didn't have a single alcoholic drink at university because I am a good Muslim was obsessed with getting the best degree classification.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    That's all very cis
    lol, no. Cis doesn't cut it, no one knows what it means, no one is really sure how to pronounce it, and when you dig down, it is mad. And 3 letters

    For a measure of how deep Woke cuts, here's a Woke person trying to claim its use is intrinsically..... racist. Yes.

    "If you’re not black and started using “woke” pejoratively sometime post-2018 or so (or worse, don’t know anything about the earlier iteration of the term), I think it’s fair to consider it a racial slur."

    https://twitter.com/byjoelanderson/status/1457512199488901122?s=20

    The woke are trying to get "Woke" cancelled
    I don't think that it is insulting as you make out. I am quite unbothered being described as woke, as being awake to institutional prejudice in society seems to me to be a good thing.
    Sure, I get that. You're a bit out of touch and you have earnest if narcissistic *wet feelings* about your inner righteousness. Go ahead. Knock out a me-gasm

    Plenty of salient Woke people on Twitter are suddenly finding the word "Woke" objectionable, even trying to get it cancelled

    Which clearly shows it touches a deep nerve with THEM
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,574

    Fox hunting is weird

    Not really. For me it's about riding a horse across country *on a wholly unpredictable route*. The trouble with the current pretendy substitute is that you know in advance that the route has been planned by a human being, with all the elf n safety considerations that entails. Nobody goes hunting to "see an animal ripped to pieces" any more than they eat beef to celebrate a bullock being killed in an abattoir.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,574
    Charles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Three MPs have been accused by the Ben Wallace of “disrespecting” the armed forces after getting drunk on a flight to visit troops in Gibraltar

    One Labour MP was said to have been so “incapacitated through drink” that she had to be placed in a wheelchair https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dressing-down-for-mps-who-got-drunk-on-flight-to-visit-troops-xzkf98fmr?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636578420

    The MP, whom The Times is not naming, was taken to her hotel and was unable to attend a “welcome event” put on for the MPs by the military

    It is understood that she was returning to the UK today — two days early — after speaking to Labour whips

    The report said that the female MP was with two SNP MPs, David Linden and Drew Hendry, who were “difficult” with customs and testing staff at the airport on Tuesday night

    I was messaged earlier that the Labour MP is Charlotte Nichols.
    Fuck me. They must be sure of their ground, calling an MP drunk in print, if they weren't, is fucking expensive.

    Plus, we've all been that drunk in university days, but most people have learned to control/moderate/disguise it by their mid twenties.

    Not really a good week for those who govern us, on any front.
    We’ll probably discover (a few minutes after she does) that she is a nervous flyer and took a pill to help her sleep. Before getting bladdered on a modest number of drinks
    She perhaps had a hitherto undiagnosed tonic water allergy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861
    TimT said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    Good evening.

    I am very happy for nature to take its course. Red in tooth and claw, and all that.

    What I object to is humankind fecking up the while ecological balance.

    Providing dens and food for foxes to breed so that humans can then slaughter them for some kind of sick pleasure is part of that.

    Look, we are diametrically opposed on this. I'm sure there are other issues on which we agree.

    If we ever meet at a PB social, I won't be so harsh as to be so insulting. On reflection, I should not have been so direct in my earlier post.


    The whole 'wild' British countryside represents an ecology fecked up by humans. There's not been anything resembling wilderness in Britain in centuries.
    It is highly arguable there is no true wilderness left on earth. Antarctica is probably the last real example, but even there it is a human landscape, immaculately maintained so as to exclude most humans (tho we are very present in the atmosphere and pollution and so on)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519
    Charles said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    The fact that you had to accompany it with two genuine four letter words and insults suggests that it lacks something on its own.
    Also, it's only an insult to those who think it's a bad thing. If you called me a "woke c*nt" I wouldn't be especially insulted, as a lover of both wokeness and c*nts.
    Nah, you’re not a c*nt

    You lack the depth and warmth.

    (Is that my coat?)
    Yes, c*nt is not an insult that I would use. I think it rather misogynistic to use the word for female genitalia as the worst swearword in the culture. Pr*ck is quite mild, even affectionate in comparison.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,503
    Charles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    Good evening.

    I am very happy for nature to take its course. Red in tooth and claw, and all that.

    What I object to is humankind fecking up the while ecological balance.

    Providing dens and food for foxes to breed so that humans can then slaughter them for some kind of sick pleasure is part of that.

    Look, we are diametrically opposed on this. I'm sure there are other issues on which we agree.

    If we ever meet at a PB social, I won't be so harsh as to be so insulting. On reflection, I should not have been so direct in my earlier post.


    Oh fuck, I was so hoping to get into a fight with you.

    Just for the record: the main effect of the hunting ban from the fox perspective has been an increase in the dominance of commercial pheasant shooting. People who hunt foxes are happy with a day in which two foxes are killed, or one, or none at all. The best day hunting I have ever had involved one fox being run to ground, and left there.

    Pheasant shooters judge the success of the day by the number of birds killed, generally 100-200, and birds are not notably less animate/intelligent/sensitive to pain than mammals.

    To protect their investment in purpose-bred pheasants, pheasant shoots pay people to kill foxes with rifles and night vision tech. It is not unusual to kill 20 odd foxes in a night with these methods.
    Commercial shoots are horrible though.

    A few drives and half a dozen birds each makes for a lovely day out
    Are you talking about the humane harvesting of free range, organic produce?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,704
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    That's all very cis
    lol, no. Cis doesn't cut it, no one knows what it means, no one is really sure how to pronounce it, and when you dig down, it is mad. And 3 letters

    For a measure of how deep Woke cuts, here's a Woke person trying to claim its use is intrinsically..... racist. Yes.

    "If you’re not black and started using “woke” pejoratively sometime post-2018 or so (or worse, don’t know anything about the earlier iteration of the term), I think it’s fair to consider it a racial slur."

    https://twitter.com/byjoelanderson/status/1457512199488901122?s=20

    The woke are trying to get "Woke" cancelled
    I don't think that it is insulting as you make out. I am quite unbothered being described as woke, as being awake to institutional prejudice in society seems to me to be a good thing.
    Well I called this response ahead of time.
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    People go back and forth on that, as sometimes its use as a pejorative is attacked on that basis (there are some rather silly overuses, particularly in the USA), and other times the initial non perjorative definition is highlighted on a 'and why would someone be against that' kind of basis.

    So next week it might be back in vogue.
    It's a disingenuous kind of response pretending that people do not use the word different ways, whether they are vague or more defined about it. Some people do use it in their own way a pejorative, and others would object to the pejorative label they can see was intended, and so it is just silly to pretend to be unaware that if someone uses it as an insult they are not using it in the sense you mean. By all means object to the way someone else uses it as unreasonable, but you know very well that people who do regard it as an insult don't mean that. And let's not pretend again that no one has ever defined their alternative definition, that's an even stupider game.

    It's an overused, over vague term, which has to an extent lost its meaning in some quarters, and acting like its initial use is the only way it is intended would be like pretending gay no longer has any other meaning that its initial meaning.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,142
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    That's all very cis
    lol, no. Cis doesn't cut it, no one knows what it means, no one is really sure how to pronounce it, and when you dig down, it is mad. And 3 letters

    For a measure of how deep Woke cuts, here's a Woke person trying to claim its use is intrinsically..... racist. Yes.

    "If you’re not black and started using “woke” pejoratively sometime post-2018 or so (or worse, don’t know anything about the earlier iteration of the term), I think it’s fair to consider it a racial slur."

    https://twitter.com/byjoelanderson/status/1457512199488901122?s=20

    The woke are trying to get "Woke" cancelled
    I thought cis was quite nice. Three letters to your four. Brevity is the soul, etc.
    Good point about nobody knowing what it means. Not that it matters. That's not the point of insults. As we've seen with woke.
  • Ok, The Telegraph have named Charlotte Nichols and chapeau to Charles for calling it correctly.

    Ms Nichols said she had experienced a “bit of a mental health episode” and “had not been feeling well today”.

    “I got diagnosed with PTSD back in June and got a bit freaked out by my hotel room last night.

    “On ill health grounds, I said I wasn’t going to take part in today and did need to come back to the UK,” she said.

    An SNP spokesperson said: "These suggestions are inaccurate. Drew Hendry MP and David Linden MP were honoured to be invited to this important event and attended all engagements, including the welcome meeting and dinner shortly after landing.

    "Instead of trying to divert attention from the Tory corruption scandal engulfing Westminster, Ben Wallace should be apologising for his role in it, including voting to get Owen Paterson off the hook."


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/11/10/labour-snp-mps-criticised-drinking-heavily-official-flight-gibraltar/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519
    edited November 10
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    That's all very cis
    lol, no. Cis doesn't cut it, no one knows what it means, no one is really sure how to pronounce it, and when you dig down, it is mad. And 3 letters

    For a measure of how deep Woke cuts, here's a Woke person trying to claim its use is intrinsically..... racist. Yes.

    "If you’re not black and started using “woke” pejoratively sometime post-2018 or so (or worse, don’t know anything about the earlier iteration of the term), I think it’s fair to consider it a racial slur."

    https://twitter.com/byjoelanderson/status/1457512199488901122?s=20

    The woke are trying to get "Woke" cancelled
    I don't think that it is insulting as you make out. I am quite unbothered being described as woke, as being awake to institutional prejudice in society seems to me to be a good thing.
    Sure, I get that. You're a bit out of touch and you have earnest if narcissistic *wet feelings* about your inner righteousness. Go ahead. Knock out a me-gasm

    Plenty of salient Woke people on Twitter are suddenly finding the word "Woke" objectionable, even trying to get it cancelled

    Which clearly shows it touches a deep nerve with THEM
    Ah, There are some people on Twitter who are idiots, yet over-sensitive? If only more people knew! 🤣🤣🤣
  • Intriguing that The Times didn't name her but The Telegraph have.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,768
    edited November 10
    IshmaelZ said:

    Fox hunting is weird

    Not really. For me it's about riding a horse across country *on a wholly unpredictable route*. The trouble with the current pretendy substitute is that you know in advance that the route has been planned by a human being, with all the elf n safety considerations that entails. Nobody goes hunting to "see an animal ripped to pieces" any more than they eat beef to celebrate a bullock being killed in an abattoir.
    I've met some hunters, while living in the countryside, and before I became part of the metropolitan liberal-elite conspiracy, and some like yourself seemed to primarily enjoy the ritual colours, speed and unpredictability, and others struck me as genuinely destructive and taciturn characters, whom I tended to keep a bit of a distance from.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861
    IshmaelZ said:

    Fox hunting is weird

    Not really. For me it's about riding a horse across country *on a wholly unpredictable route*. The trouble with the current pretendy substitute is that you know in advance that the route has been planned by a human being, with all the elf n safety considerations that entails. Nobody goes hunting to "see an animal ripped to pieces" any more than they eat beef to celebrate a bullock being killed in an abattoir.
    So, if they could design a robot fox-drone to weave randomly across the country, mimicking fox-like behaviour (surely achievable right now with modern tech) that would be as good?

    If so, we are all sorted. You get your fun, no foxes are harmed

    Somehow I think the extremes on both sides would not be happy with this. There are hunters who like and want actual blood, there are puritan anti-hunters who disapprove of all human pleasure associated with animal pain, even if no actual pain occurs
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,406
    Charles said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    The fact that you had to accompany it with two genuine four letter words and insults suggests that it lacks something on its own.
    Also, it's only an insult to those who think it's a bad thing. If you called me a "woke c*nt" I wouldn't be especially insulted, as a lover of both wokeness and c*nts.
    Nah, you’re not a c*nt

    You lack the depth and warmth.

    (Is that my coat?)
    F*nny guy.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,833
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    The fact that you had to accompany it with two genuine four letter words and insults suggests that it lacks something on its own.
    Also, it's only an insult to those who think it's a bad thing. If you called me a "woke c*nt" I wouldn't be especially insulted, as a lover of both wokeness and c*nts.
    Nah, you’re not a c*nt

    You lack the depth and warmth.

    (Is that my coat?)
    Yes, c*nt is not an insult that I would use. I think it rather misogynistic to use the word for female genitalia as the worst swearword in the culture. Pr*ck is quite mild, even affectionate in comparison.
    Agreed. Ugly word.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,574
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/farewell-to-a-noble-figure-in-spectator-history

    for a warning about how you can't get away with calling Labour politicians drunk just because they are.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    That's all very cis
    lol, no. Cis doesn't cut it, no one knows what it means, no one is really sure how to pronounce it, and when you dig down, it is mad. And 3 letters

    For a measure of how deep Woke cuts, here's a Woke person trying to claim its use is intrinsically..... racist. Yes.

    "If you’re not black and started using “woke” pejoratively sometime post-2018 or so (or worse, don’t know anything about the earlier iteration of the term), I think it’s fair to consider it a racial slur."

    https://twitter.com/byjoelanderson/status/1457512199488901122?s=20

    The woke are trying to get "Woke" cancelled
    I don't think that it is insulting as you make out. I am quite unbothered being described as woke, as being awake to institutional prejudice in society seems to me to be a good thing.
    Sure, I get that. You're a bit out of touch and you have earnest if narcissistic *wet feelings* about your inner righteousness. Go ahead. Knock out a me-gasm

    Plenty of salient Woke people on Twitter are suddenly finding the word "Woke" objectionable, even trying to get it cancelled

    Which clearly shows it touches a deep nerve with THEM
    Ah, There are some people on Twitter who are idiots, yet over-sensitive? If only more people knew! 🤣🤣🤣
    But these aren't Twitter randos. These are blue tick leftwing politicians and journalists. This is a definite development. Now go back to fondling yourself
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519
    edited November 10
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    Good evening.

    I am very happy for nature to take its course. Red in tooth and claw, and all that.

    What I object to is humankind fecking up the while ecological balance.

    Providing dens and food for foxes to breed so that humans can then slaughter them for some kind of sick pleasure is part of that.

    Look, we are diametrically opposed on this. I'm sure there are other issues on which we agree.

    If we ever meet at a PB social, I won't be so harsh as to be so insulting. On reflection, I should not have been so direct in my earlier post.


    Oh fuck, I was so hoping to get into a fight with you.

    Just for the record: the main effect of the hunting ban from the fox perspective has been an increase in the dominance of commercial pheasant shooting. People who hunt foxes are happy with a day in which two foxes are killed, or one, or none at all. The best day hunting I have ever had involved one fox being run to ground, and left there.

    Pheasant shooters judge the success of the day by the number of birds killed, generally 100-200, and birds are not notably less animate/intelligent/sensitive to pain than mammals.

    To protect their investment in purpose-bred pheasants, pheasant shoots pay people to kill foxes with rifles and night vision tech. It is not unusual to kill 20 odd foxes in a night with these methods.
    Commercial shoots are horrible though.

    A few drives and half a dozen birds each makes for a lovely day out
    Are you talking about the humane harvesting of free range, organic produce?
    Or a day out with a Seventies BBC personality...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,402
    Rittenhouse trial gone to VAR.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,833
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    Good evening.

    I am very happy for nature to take its course. Red in tooth and claw, and all that.

    What I object to is humankind fecking up the while ecological balance.

    Providing dens and food for foxes to breed so that humans can then slaughter them for some kind of sick pleasure is part of that.

    Look, we are diametrically opposed on this. I'm sure there are other issues on which we agree.

    If we ever meet at a PB social, I won't be so harsh as to be so insulting. On reflection, I should not have been so direct in my earlier post.


    Oh fuck, I was so hoping to get into a fight with you.

    Just for the record: the main effect of the hunting ban from the fox perspective has been an increase in the dominance of commercial pheasant shooting. People who hunt foxes are happy with a day in which two foxes are killed, or one, or none at all. The best day hunting I have ever had involved one fox being run to ground, and left there.

    Pheasant shooters judge the success of the day by the number of birds killed, generally 100-200, and birds are not notably less animate/intelligent/sensitive to pain than mammals.

    To protect their investment in purpose-bred pheasants, pheasant shoots pay people to kill foxes with rifles and night vision tech. It is not unusual to kill 20 odd foxes in a night with these methods.
    Commercial shoots are horrible though.

    A few drives and half a dozen birds each makes for a lovely day out
    Are you talking about the humane harvesting of free range, organic produce?
    Yes, combined with fresh air, exercise and a the chance for the dogs to have a bit of a run around.

    What’s not to like?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    That's all very cis
    lol, no. Cis doesn't cut it, no one knows what it means, no one is really sure how to pronounce it, and when you dig down, it is mad. And 3 letters

    For a measure of how deep Woke cuts, here's a Woke person trying to claim its use is intrinsically..... racist. Yes.

    "If you’re not black and started using “woke” pejoratively sometime post-2018 or so (or worse, don’t know anything about the earlier iteration of the term), I think it’s fair to consider it a racial slur."

    https://twitter.com/byjoelanderson/status/1457512199488901122?s=20

    The woke are trying to get "Woke" cancelled
    I don't think that it is insulting as you make out. I am quite unbothered being described as woke, as being awake to institutional prejudice in society seems to me to be a good thing.
    Sure, I get that. You're a bit out of touch and you have earnest if narcissistic *wet feelings* about your inner righteousness. Go ahead. Knock out a me-gasm

    Plenty of salient Woke people on Twitter are suddenly finding the word "Woke" objectionable, even trying to get it cancelled

    Which clearly shows it touches a deep nerve with THEM
    Ah, There are some people on Twitter who are idiots, yet over-sensitive? If only more people knew! 🤣🤣🤣
    But these aren't Twitter randos. These are blue tick leftwing politicians and journalists. This is a definite development. Now go back to fondling yourself
    The Wokefinder General speaks! Will no one rid us of these spawn of Satan, and restore the moral rectitude we need?
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,142
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    The fact that you had to accompany it with two genuine four letter words and insults suggests that it lacks something on its own.
    Also, it's only an insult to those who think it's a bad thing. If you called me a "woke c*nt" I wouldn't be especially insulted, as a lover of both wokeness and c*nts.
    Nah, you’re not a c*nt

    You lack the depth and warmth.

    (Is that my coat?)
    Yes, c*nt is not an insult that I would use. I think it rather misogynistic to use the word for female genitalia as the worst swearword in the culture. Pr*ck is quite mild, even affectionate in comparison.
    If there's any misogyny there, it's in the response to rather than the use of the word. A vagina is not a worse thing than a penis, and the cadence of the word is quite similar to "cock", which I understand to be "allowed" when the one I'm not typing isn't. Where's the sense in that? Equal rights for genital swearing!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,833
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    That's all very cis
    lol, no. Cis doesn't cut it, no one knows what it means, no one is really sure how to pronounce it, and when you dig down, it is mad. And 3 letters

    For a measure of how deep Woke cuts, here's a Woke person trying to claim its use is intrinsically..... racist. Yes.

    "If you’re not black and started using “woke” pejoratively sometime post-2018 or so (or worse, don’t know anything about the earlier iteration of the term), I think it’s fair to consider it a racial slur."

    https://twitter.com/byjoelanderson/status/1457512199488901122?s=20

    The woke are trying to get "Woke" cancelled
    I thought cis was quite nice. Three letters to your four. Brevity is the soul, etc.
    Good point about nobody knowing what it means. Not that it matters. That's not the point of insults. As we've seen with woke.
    “cis” isn’t guttural enough to be a proper Saxon insult though. It sounds like an effete French word
  • PhilPhil Posts: 615
    edited November 10
    TimT said:

    I have not been following the Rittenhouse case, but after reading the NPR (not exactly a bastion of right-wing, gun-toting, Trumpism), I'd be gobsmacked if he's found guilty.

    https://www.npr.org/2021/11/10/1054313132/kyle-rittenhouse-testimony-kenosha

    In the land of the gun toting free, this will be self-defense.

    But he went there, with a rifle, into a riot to (in his own words) “protect property”. And now people are dead & he’s in court hoping to avoid a life sentence.

    What he actually did was make a bad situation worse.
  • Completely Off Topic but for anyone in the North West with small kids (or who just likes Harry Potter) we went to a Harry Potter Forbidden Forest experience tonight in Arley in Cheshire. It was good outdoor fun, really well done if anyone has kids that'd be interested or just likes Harry Potter (a lot of families there were without kids). I'd recommend it if anyone's interested.

    Disappointed but unsurprised to see we lost to New Zealand. Especially considering we didn't lose many wickets for so long, the batting just wasn't aggressive enough. To only get four sixes and only lose four wickets simply isn't good enough when we bat so deep there was no reason to be so placid. Can't understand why the bat wasn't swung more in the final overs, or even sooner.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    The fact that you had to accompany it with two genuine four letter words and insults suggests that it lacks something on its own.
    Also, it's only an insult to those who think it's a bad thing. If you called me a "woke c*nt" I wouldn't be especially insulted, as a lover of both wokeness and c*nts.
    To be fair to Woke The Insult, it is just bedding in to the language, having only been around about 4 years. You are comparing it to "fuck" surely the greatest swear word ever invented by humankind, and the peak lexical achievement of English, the noblest and mightiest language on earth
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,574
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    IshmaelZ said:

    FTP and for @SandyRentool

    You aren't even any good at your own specialised subject, are you? which is that the human race should jolly well die out to give Mother Nature a chance. People who like hunting foxes like there to be an ecosystem in which foxes exist in reasonable numbers and are huntable, which is surely what you are meant to want too? But it turns out that though you're an 'ard man when it comes to humanity, you live in a kind of Disney world in whgich foxy-woxy lives a long and satisfying life and dies of old age in bed surrounded by generations of descendant foxy-woxies. Not what happens.

    Good evening.

    I am very happy for nature to take its course. Red in tooth and claw, and all that.

    What I object to is humankind fecking up the while ecological balance.

    Providing dens and food for foxes to breed so that humans can then slaughter them for some kind of sick pleasure is part of that.

    Look, we are diametrically opposed on this. I'm sure there are other issues on which we agree.

    If we ever meet at a PB social, I won't be so harsh as to be so insulting. On reflection, I should not have been so direct in my earlier post.


    Oh fuck, I was so hoping to get into a fight with you.

    Just for the record: the main effect of the hunting ban from the fox perspective has been an increase in the dominance of commercial pheasant shooting. People who hunt foxes are happy with a day in which two foxes are killed, or one, or none at all. The best day hunting I have ever had involved one fox being run to ground, and left there.

    Pheasant shooters judge the success of the day by the number of birds killed, generally 100-200, and birds are not notably less animate/intelligent/sensitive to pain than mammals.

    To protect their investment in purpose-bred pheasants, pheasant shoots pay people to kill foxes with rifles and night vision tech. It is not unusual to kill 20 odd foxes in a night with these methods.
    Commercial shoots are horrible though.

    A few drives and half a dozen birds each makes for a lovely day out
    Are you talking about the humane harvesting of free range, organic produce?
    It's not free range or organic. Pheasants are commercially and intensively bred and reared before being tipped out into the countryside; they are battery chickens on steroids.

    Which is why, to out-Charles Charles, I only shoot grouse these days.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,476
    Charles said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Lots of Woke people on Twitter are now complaining about the use of the word Woke, which is simultaneously vague, derogatory, pointless, lazy, biased, old-fashioned, inaccurate, or only used by old people. Or Trumpites. Or idiots. Or enemies of anti-racism.


    "Let me say, again, the use of the word wokeness and/or woke by journalists is lazy and biased and counts on the reader/viewer filling in with his or her own stereotypes. If you can’t state specifically what you mean, why are you writing it?"

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1457141450450296837?s=20


    Clearly, they really hate the word Woke. It really stings. Good

    You overlabel people as Woke, you find diverse reactions to the label. I mean, duh.
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Woke hate it.

    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "progressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. WOKE

    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Woke. The Wokeness. The Wokening. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Racist
    It's a perfect insult. And it's very catchy. That's why the Racists hate it.
    It cleverly captures an entire spectrum of stupid "regressive" belief in one short, spiteful word. RACIST
    It even sounds oddly menacing. The Racists. The Racism. The Racialism. They Are Coming. Be Afraid
    Oh dear. Oh deary me
    I know what you mean.
    #oneofus
    To be generous to you, you inadvertently make a point

    For many years the Right has been looking for a decent insult to hurl at its opponents, as good as Fascist, or Trumpite or, yes, "racist"

    Until now none has quite hit the mark. "Political correctness" is far too long and clumsy. "Liberal" might work for a few American Fox-watchers, but liberal has a tinge of goodness whoever you are. Liberal. Liberty, Libertarian!

    "Marxist" is as extreme as Fascist but without the bite. "Commie" sounds antique. And so on

    Suddenly there is a word which completely summarises all these annoying wanky people, and it is suitably venomous and monosyllabic

    "Fuck off you Woke C*nt" has real bite. It just does: as an English language sentence

    It is a true four letter word and insult, perhaps the first new one in English for 1500 years?
    That's all very cis
    lol, no. Cis doesn't cut it, no one knows what it means, no one is really sure how to pronounce it, and when you dig down, it is mad. And 3 letters

    For a measure of how deep Woke cuts, here's a Woke person trying to claim its use is intrinsically..... racist. Yes.

    "If you’re not black and started using “woke” pejoratively sometime post-2018 or so (or worse, don’t know anything about the earlier iteration of the term), I think it’s fair to consider it a racial slur."

    https://twitter.com/byjoelanderson/status/1457512199488901122?s=20

    The woke are trying to get "Woke" cancelled
    I thought cis was quite nice. Three letters to your four. Brevity is the soul, etc.
    Good point about nobody knowing what it means. Not that it matters. That's not the point of insults. As we've seen with woke.
    “cis” isn’t guttural enough to be a proper Saxon insult though. It sounds like an effete French word
    I get parochially annoyed by the use of ‘cis’ and ‘trans’ as they are chemistry terms for me. Just me being an idiot, but we don’t choose what annoys us...
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