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What if…. Tommy Robinson is a political genius?

He's not.

That was my assumption until yesterday

But yesterday he managed - and it is mainly him - to get 300,000 people (my honest estimate) to march through London. Even if it was only the “110,000” that the Met claim (with dubious precision) it’s an extraordinary achievement. He’s not long out of prison


I do wonder if he has some innate genius for this. A proper working class demagogue with real skill, operating on a level we don’t always appreciate. We haven’t seen someone like this in Britain… ever? It’s a type we’ve only seen in other countries

Note that this is not some fanboi nonsense. Hitler and Goebbels were, to my mind, political geniuses

The big crowds didn't turn up for Tommeh, they turned up because they feel as though their (our) culture is under attack from the establishment and protesting is the only way to show that they won't be silenced by Starmer and his band of human rights lawyers. What started with a few people putting up flags and councils trying to take them down turned into a new nationalist/patriotic movement. I don't see that Robinson had very much to do with it.

If anything it's Nige that's the political genius, not Robinson. He's successfully harnessed these disparate movements into 34% of voting intention.

I think what's really done it recently is all of the free speech censorship, dismissal of rape and sexual abuse by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants by the state until they were forced to address it by protestors, the hotels and continued boat arrivals. But really, the first I think it what has really turned this from an anti-immigration movement into a much wider one, it's captured a lot more middle of the road people who are fed up of the censorship and being told that what they think is wrong by people who are now cheering on the death of Charlie Kirk.

As always, it's hypocrisy that voters really hate more than anything else. I don't think Robinson has really done anything on that front, the left and hard left who have lectured the world about how "being kind" is important are now dancing on the grave of a political opponent and using wokeness to censor speech is backfiring on them. Robinson just happens to be one of the more visible people on the other side. I'd say Nige has been much more important in bringing together the alliance that has added up to 34% of VI than Robinson.

I disagree. Tommy R organised this and was the driving force. I bet there were tens of thousands in the march, as you say, who actively dislike him. Yet he’s managed to harness them, as well

He is an absolute classic demagogue of the old school European tradition, right down to the history of street fighting and the criminal record. I can’t think of an equivalent in British history, all the comparisons are continental European. There are elements of Mussolini, elements of Hitler, a bit of Jean Marie Le Pen

Farage is gifted in a different way

Did the BUF not have a history of street violence following on from deliberately provocative street marches, and an aim to use it as a recruiting tool?

(Compare eg with the flag hangers hanging England flags outside Mosques, or various far right Youtubers doing public showing outside hotels used for housing asylum seekers for several years eg Alan Leggett.)

They did do that but they were never remotely as successful as Tommy R is now, in terms of capturing the zeitgeist and exploiting it

Which is my basic point. We used to piously believe Britain was immune to this kind of angry right wing populism, but such is the misgovernance of the country - by both main parties - that is no longer true

It occurs to me that Tommy is important for another reason, too. He shifts the Overton Window far to the right. When he can get Elon to talk to 300k marchers in London, then he does a very good job of making Farage look like a moderate on the centre right. Which can only aid Reform

Yes this is perceptive. Farage wouldn’t have looked out of place in a Thatcher Cabinet or as one of Major’s bar stewards. But for many years we’ve been fed the nonsense that he is “far right” or that other short hand for the wrong sort - “populist”. A characterisation that is quickly being erased.

I think he knows exactly what he’s doing electorally. Elon saw Farage’s public reticence to go hard on his core issues as “weak sauce”. But it just seems like careful political strategy far out from an election to me. Whether he’ll run an effective government is quite another question, but he’s nailing the long campaign.

From my own experience I think you are right. On PB I am probably one of the least in favour of mass immigration, and don't mind admitting I think Enoch Powell had it right. But a lot, I would say most of my friends are to the right of me on this, and the kind of people I know but aren't close friends with, are further to the right still. When I hear their views, or see their social media posts more precisely, I recoil a bit, yet don't feel that when I listen to Farage. Some are saying that he is a sell out though, I think that is madness

I think the danger for Nige is that someone like Katie Lam will become Tory leader, someone without any stink of the Boris era and completely outflank him on immigration with ILR revocation and a manifesto commitment to reach net emigration by the end of the term. She has shades of Mrs Thatcher about her IMO. It's a shame that Boris and Liz Truss left behind such a toxic legacy for the current lot to clear.

Now who do you think Katie models herself on? Seems to make a few people go weak at the knees.

This is so disgusting, from Vylan and the crowd. Imagine so gleefully cheering the assassination of a man just for having opinions you don’t like?

https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1967202869846987060

I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.

Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.

This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.

CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right

What?...

Je suis Charlie

I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!

He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.

Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?

I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary

No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.

Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?

Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw

Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge

Would this count?

"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexalisitza/viral-charlie-kirk-quotes

While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.

Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.

Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.

I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?

From the above link:

"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape.
After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""

Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him

But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it

It's not vile

So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..

I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.

I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence

But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him

I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free

Where have I made any comment at all about his Kirk's death?

I'm just saying I don't believe what he said is true were it to have happened to his 10 year old daughter..

And my view point on abortion has been consistent for years - the problem America has is that its trying to apply medieval viewpoints (where pregnancy was only obvious when visible) to the 21st century where big data tells Tesco's at roughly the same time a pregnancy test can confirm one way or other.

I didn't say you had, you just happened to be caught up in my anti-vile spiel

Oh, and plenty of lefties here have latched onto this thing of exposing assassination celebrations as some sort of restriction of free speech

It's the cancel culture that you wankers started. Suck it up

I thought you didn’t like cancel culture?

Have you never seen a mirror?

I asked my question first

...

This is so disgusting, from Vylan and the crowd. Imagine so gleefully cheering the assassination of a man just for having opinions you don’t like?

https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1967202869846987060

I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.

Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.

This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.

CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right

What?...

Je suis Charlie

I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!

He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.

Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?

I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary

No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.

Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?

Try this for size.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/11/charlie-kirk-quotes-beliefs

Plenty of that is out of context. Eg (if I knew that forty per cent of airline pilots were picked because they were black due to DEI) then if I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified

And what of it is "vile"?

I don't agree with it all. But I know that he just wanted to talk about it

"We record all of it so that we put [it] on the internet so people can see these ideas collide. When people stop talking, that’s when you get violence. That’s when civil war happens, because you start to think the other side is so evil, and they lose their humanity."

You asked for one or two examples. I demonstrated using a Guardian article that gave a number of examples demonstrating why I believe Mr Kirk's views were in my opinion quite repulsive. You have confirmed that they weren't "vile"so I suppose we will have agreed to disagree.

I have at no time condoned the assassination of Mr Kirk, but should he be a martyr? No.

And there's an elegant debate club game here as well.

Many of the things Kirk said were, written down in isolation, debatable. A lot of the repulsiveness of his stated views comes from them all coming out of one mouth.

His death diminishes is all. But I can't say that his views, or his pro-am debate style were an adornment to society.

This is so disgusting, from Vylan and the crowd. Imagine so gleefully cheering the assassination of a man just for having opinions you don’t like?

https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1967202869846987060

I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.

Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.

This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.

CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right

What?...

Je suis Charlie

I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!

He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.

Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?

I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary

No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.

Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?

Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw

Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge

Would this count?

"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexalisitza/viral-charlie-kirk-quotes

While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.

Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.

Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.

I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?

From the above link:

"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape.
After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""

Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him

But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it

It's not vile

So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..

I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.

I don't have a daughter, and I don't know him or or his daughter, but I agree with your second sentence

But I don't agree that he's vile for being anti-abortion, even though I disagree with him

I think people are vile for celebrating his assassination. I don't think that they should be killed, injured or imprisoned for celebrating Charlie's killing, but I don't understand why anyone would think that that kind of public celebration of an unjustified assassination should be consequence free

What's disturbing to me is that this air of celebration seems to be about encouraging other radical leftists to take up arms and assassinate other prominent right wingers. Yet I doubt that celebratory attitude will last if the opposite happens and the radical right take up their guns and start mowing down prominent left wingers.

Condoning this kind of violence just seems to be opening such an awful door and where does the line get drawn, who draws that line? I'm at a loss to understand why people would cheer this on, because they disagreed with him. Will these same people cheer when some random right winger targets Owen Jones?! I doubt it, yet that's what the door is being opened for and it's such a dangerous one to open up. Their attitude is completely self defeating too because in the US, at least, it's the right wingers that have all the guns and it's the right wingers that hold control over the military. I don't know what the thought process is, maybe they're just so stupid they can't see what it is they're encouraging.

This is so disgusting, from Vylan and the crowd. Imagine so gleefully cheering the assassination of a man just for having opinions you don’t like?

https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1967202869846987060

I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.

Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.

This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.

CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right

What?...

Je suis Charlie

I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!

He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.

Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?

I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary

No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.

Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?

Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw

Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge

Would this count?

"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexalisitza/viral-charlie-kirk-quotes

While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.

Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.

Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.

I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?

From the above link:

"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape.
After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""

Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him

But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it

It's not vile

Forcing a woman to carry a rapists baby is disgusting, it’s cruel beyond belief . Just because someone has a consistent position on something doesn’t mean it’s right .

It's not vile, it's disagreeable. He's perfectly welcome to hold this beliefs and argue in favour of them and we are capable of disagreeing and arguing against. Isn't this what debating people is about? He holds views you disagree with so have the debate, don't try and shut it down with words like "vile" which doesn't change anyone's mind, in fact I'd say it does the opposite.

This is so disgusting, from Vylan and the crowd. Imagine so gleefully cheering the assassination of a man just for having opinions you don’t like?

https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1967202869846987060

I am going to go and have to have a lie down, I agree with Piers Moron.

Some of the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s murder have been utterly astonishing, in the UK as well as in the US.

This was a guy who believed in the power of speech and of argument, and would happily discuss anything with anyone. A very sad week for rationality and reasonableness.

CK was only on the edge of my awareness before the assassination but since then everything I've seen or heard of him shows me that we've lost a great force for good on the right

What?...

Je suis Charlie

I am very sorry that two young children have mindlessly been deprived of their father. But no!

He didn't deserve to die violently. He was a great orator, but some of his narratives were vile. He should not be a martyr.

Like the bullshit one that Bad Al Campbell propagated about stoning gays?

I expect that all of the narratives that you're imagining are imaginary

No, I was only aware of him by name prior to the assassination. I have subsequently watched a great deal of his material. The man was very compelling and he captured the imagination of young MAGAs. I found some of his more racially and gender charged material offensive, but then I am a snowflake.

Do you have one or maybe two examples of his vile narratives from your extensive recent research?

Your racially and gender charged category headings don't count as examples btw

Quote him saying something vile, or retract your charge

Would this count?

"I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year, so that we can have the Second Amendment."

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexalisitza/viral-charlie-kirk-quotes

While I disagree with him, I don't remotely see that as vile.

Its no different to the principle that better a guilty murderer goes free to kill again than to lock up innocents to save a life.

Or that its unacceptable to torture people to save a life.

I don't value the second amendment as liberty but if you do, then it's entirely honest and acceptable to put his view forwards. Liberty before life sometimes. Or would you be OK with the state imprisoning and torturing innocents as well as the guilty if it meant saving some lives?

From the above link:

"Kirk was asked what he would want his daughter to do if she were 10 years old and pregnant following rape.
After calling the scenario graphic, he responds, "The answer is yes. The baby would be delivered.""

Somewhere that I entirely disagree with him

But he's entirely against abortion, and he's consistent and honest about it

It's not vile

So your daughter was raped and for his daughter to be reminded of it every day for 9 months and then to look after the child forever more..

I suspect what he claims and what he would do in reality were very different things.

If you believe abortion is murder, then just because someone is raped doesn't justify murdering an innocent. If someone doesnt want the reminder then the baby could be put up for adoption etc.

I am of the opposite extreme, I believe life begins at birth, so I think abortion should be legal and available until that point. While I vehemently disagree with Kirk’s views, I don't consider them vile, they are the principled consequences of his views.

You should be capable of disagreeing with people without calling those you disagree with vile.